What up? Everyone? Welcome back to the dragon Ball Virgin Podcast. We
are on episode thirty eight, I believe, and we are all got up
to dragon Ball Super all caught up to the story Ray the dragon Ball version.
Can you believe it? I can't. I mean it's only thirty at
episodes, but we covered so much within these thirty at episodes, so we
should very much pat ourselves on the back and anyone who has been falling along
with us. It's a pretty big accomplishment to be able to go through the
entire cannon. So yeah, I'm pumped, and I'm what a way to
like end as well? At least right now. Yeah, it's not over,
but what a cliffhanger, guys like, And this is what I'm used
to doing, right, I'm just talking about the latest the chapters, is
not going back and talking about it. So yeah, I'm really excited to
talk about this because now the cool thing is I could theorize and not just
like you theorize while I meanwhile, I know exactly like oh yeah, you
know, I know exactly what's gonna happen, so I can't reveal anything.
So that's a part I really do enjoy. There's so much to discuss here.
You told me as well, Ray that you were talking to a friend
who listens to the podcast sometimes and they said, this is the arc that
lost them. So do you know which part specifically? Now that you've read
it, do you think that he was He kind of like stopped, I
guess respecting Dragon Ball a bit after they did it, so I never spoke
with him yet about what kind of turned him off. But my prediction,
and I'll touch pace with him at some point, but my prediction is when
Granola wished to be the most powerful person in the universe, That's what I
think. Yeah, when you told me that, I assumed he meant that
as well. But I feel like, not gonna lie. I feel like
this might be my favorite Driving Ball super arc, potentially depending on how it
ends, which is crazy because it has such it's controversial. It either pisses
people off. Guys in the chat like you can let me know. Do
you like this arc? Are you hating this arc? I know a lot
of people have strong feelings one way or the other. For me, I
really like the throwback to the saying race right. I like the revenge story
going on with Granola and dude we got a new form of vegitas that Goku
doesn't have. And although it's it is up for debates and people are like
absolutely no way is Goku like behind Vegeta. To me, it seems like
it totally makes sense that Vegeta could have surpassed Mui Goku. So yeah,
we'll get into that as well. But yeah, we're like fucking crazy shit,
bro, and this. I haven't been this excited about dragon Ball Super.
I can't recall when. And I guess that's the Vegeta fanboy in me
that I didn't even know that I was such a big Vegeta fanboy. But
seeing this like that was my favorite chapter, the last one we read,
and yeah, I am so excited to see what happens. I really do
like the move they make with Vegeta because we've gone to the point where with
the whole dragon Ball series we expect that there's this linear progression with the Sands
and how you know you have to reach Super Sand one too. In a
sense, it's more ambiguous now because like, yeah, yeah, Vegeta was
always like, oh, I achieved the same state after you, right,
And I love too how Goku's totally fine with it in his training. How
there's one part where we Se is like, oh, like you see what
Vegeta is doing, and He's like, no, I'll just focus on perfecting
ultra instinct. Like I respect how Goku he sees Vegeta, you know,
progressing in Yeah you cut out there all right, while Ray, Yeah,
okay, you're back, Okay cool. I was just gonna say. The
thing I liked about the whole Vegeta going the separate way with this transformation is
that Goku respects it and it doesn't just want to like copycaut it. So
when he's training with weis, Ms is like, oh do you see kind
of like what Vegeta is doing there with beers, And Goku's okay with just
say, hey, I'm going to perfect ultra instinct. This is my thing.
Veg is gonna do his thing. It's not this like there's still that
inner competition between the two of them. There's a rival. They're letting them
go in separate directions, which we haven't really gotten so far. Yeah,
I really enjoy it obviously. Like you know, in Dragon Ball Z,
you could say, like mogin Vegeta and Supersayan three Goku were two different paths
of progression. But but obviously there's a negative connotation with mogin Mageta. It
wasn't like, Yo, this is a positive thing. While this form,
see, it's obviously way more edgier than mastered altranstinct. But at the same
time, it's not like frowned upon. It's not like he's doing something wrong.
He's just embrace embracing the inner destroyer. So I'm actually one hundred percent
on board. And yeah, I've heard some comments. I will get into
it, but I heard some comments of people saying, like, yo,
the angels use ultra instinct. God's destruction use destruction right with Vegeta is the
path Vegeta is following in right now, and that as a result, angels
are stronger than God's instruction and so Vegeta can't be stronger than Goku. But
that is not the case. Both offer kind of room to grow, room
to be perfected. And they even said, like Beer straight up said that
Vegeta and he's even rooting that Vegeta will show that the god of destruction techniques
can be superior to angel techniques. So just because angels are stronger in general
doesn't mean that automatically God of Destruction techniques are inferior, especially when we're applying
them to sayings not angels. Right, So I strongly am in the camp
that Vegeta can surpass Goku, and might have already surpassed Goku with this transformation.
Obviously, I'm not saying the whole series will now be Vegeta ahead of
Goku. But at the same time, I feel like, you know,
a little back and forth is exactly what we need. We don't need Vegeta
always trailing behind. No, I totally respect the move. I like the
move that they made here, and I'm curious to see to see what happens.
Like going forwards such a cliffhanger, you don't actually see what happens next.
But do you want to get right into kind of the summary first and
then we'll stop and break the Yeah, yeah, because like I'm getting excited
here. But yeah, as Kingley Logan said the chat, it could end
up being the best arc, but not yet. Yeah, I feel like
you could say that almost like you can't say this is the best arc because
it's just it isn't over Arts always have to be examined as a whole.
But yeah, with the Bagia transformation. I think it has a lot of
potential, and we'll get into how we both feel about the whole. I
wish I was the strongest in the universe kind of thing for sure. Yeah,
so the arcs starts with some backstory on Granola. Obviously, he was
alluded to in the previous episode we had where he took seven threes body and
or at least part of his body, and we realized he did it in
order to like sell it off, and we learn how, you know,
he's not a really powerful person, like he gets beat up when he ends
up delivering that head. We learned his backstory about the is it Syrians cereals?
Yeah, like I say cereal lions because like they're all cereal based things
like names granola, right, oatmeal? Yeah, so yeah, we get
that backstory about their planet, how it was destroyed by the Sands, who
at the time we're working for Freezer's army. And that's what's interesting too,
because like that whole saying past hasn't been too relevant for the past little while,
and now it becomes relevant again, and it's almost in a way it's
like, Okay, there's this kind of I don't want to say villainous side
to go quin Regeta, but they have this shaded past they're attached to,
not directly, but like indirectly there, so we learn about that whole backstory
the planet being destroyed, where how things are now with I believe the Heaters.
Yeah, so Heaters are those those guys who want to be the ruling
force in the Gallic See and in the universe, and they want to replace
Freezer pretty much take his forces. And they have an interesting approach where they
seem to approach it through getting a lot of money and being able to buy
mercenary forces kind of thing. Plus that little one which I'm not one hundred
percent sure what their name is right now, but the do you remember what
the smallest one is called. None of those supposed to be able to surpass
Freezel, Like that was a huge thing. They'll come up again because they
just dropped like, Bro, you're you might be able to surpass Freeza.
I'm gonna look that up. You could keep talking. I just want to
see all of the Heater names. Yeah, so we end up getting that
backstory. We find out that Granola wants to avenge his people, He wants
to destroy or sorry, destroy Goku at first, destroy Freezer, especially when
he finds out that they have been resurrected, and yeah, we get that
whole backstory at first going on Cranola. At the same time, what is
also pretty cool is we get a bit more backstory within the Mechims. So
we find out that they're not just on Dynamic, but they're spread out throughout
the universe and they were actually on planet Cereal at some point, and Granola
actually lives with one, and their dragon balls are only two within that particular
planet, which was kind of interesting comparing like all the dragon ball rules depending
on the planets. Yeah, and just just to add in, yeah,
so gas Gas is the guy who's supposed to be able to have the power
to surpass Freeza. Again they know Freeze is more powerful than before, so
that's a very interesting statement. The heaters will have to be thrown in again
into the story. They'll have to become relevant in one way or another,
so it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. And the
other ones are Oil, the portly man as he was called Maki, and
then Elek is the leader m Yeah, no, that's good to know.
So, yeah, we get that whole plotline going on. At the same
time, though, there's this other interesting plotline. I've talked about how I
like trading arcs, and this was a really interesting training arc because we get
Goku and Vegeta training extensively with weis. Goku's training with weis to perfect ultra
instinct because we've we find out at the beginning that the angels are always in
ultra instinct, which is pretty cool. Yeah, and so we learned that,
and then obviously Vegeta and Berrists are training. And I love how like
beeris. For a while now has just seemed like a really lazy guy,
Like he's just lounging around all the time, eating, like drinking these like
very fruity drinks. And then finally I don't know if he's borer, he's
having existential crisis, but he's kind of like, yeah, Vegeta, you
want to see what I do, Like, come over here. He's almost
like tempting him. He's just probably thinking, Okay, I want to like
Flux a little bit show off. And I mean, Beers has never been
into wanting to be a teacher for anyone and wanting to train anyone. This
is the first time you really see. Okay, like I want to train
this guy, maybe in an indirect way to kind of lure him in.
But then we get that whole training arc, and I think that training arc
is awesome. I don't know how you feel about it, but yeah,
like it really cool. Obviously they didn't overdo it. They had the training
while the whole Granola story was unfolding, which I did like it, right.
I like the fact that Beers gives vegeta earring. I like the relationship
developing between the two. Right, so now Vegeta's wearing the earring that symbolizes
God's destruction. Right again, I don't want Vegeta to become a god of
destruction in the like it's final, not final phone, because he could surpass
them in power potentially. But you know, I don't want him to take
Beers's role because I think I much more prefer the dynamic between like you know,
Goku and Vegeta and like Boma and stuff like that. But I love
the fact that he's down his own path, and I like that Beers is
finally, like you said, going from being this lazy dude to finally take
an interest in training someone and getting so involved that he's developing like this little
rivalry with weis to see who does better Vegeta or Goku. So very cool.
I agree one hundred percent. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed learning the
little philosophy is thrown in between the different ones, right the whole time,
you know, Weis was saying, you know, you have to focus on
being stronger than yourself in the past. Don't get too worried about if you
find a new opponent and there's the strongest, you know, just focus on
you and getting stronger yourself than you were yesterday. So again, good advice.
They thought it was a bit obvious, but good advice nonetheless. And
I like the fact that beer Is, for example, is the Gina was
clearly blocked psychologically by his regrets and what the Saying race have done. Right
you kind of picked up on that, Yeah, because yeah, we were
talking about Vegeta. Especially in Super he seems to be very much in this
atonement phase, like he realizes what his past entail, the bad things about
the Saying race, and you could tell he's trying to like atone, especially
for what he initially did to Earth at first. But yeah, this is
It's interesting because, like you said, what beer is Bicycally tells him is
like, you have to forget about your past because obviously if you're wrapped up
in the past, you're never going to move forward. And at some point
he say something like you have to destroy your previous self before creating a new
one. And I really like that lesson right there, the idea of like
you just gotta let go of some of these things. Obviously there's that whole
destruction element, like he's training another this god of destruction, right, but
it can be used in more than one way. But I like it more
like in a philosophical level, how sometimes you have to like destroy that person
where before to build up this new one that's even better. So yeah,
I like those lessons. Like you mentioned Weisa's lesson about like your biggest rival
as yourself the day before that, that was good as well. I liked,
you know, they were both very different philosophies or philosophies of fighting,
and it kind of brought me back to some of like the previous stuff in
Dragonball where we've had like different martial arts schools as well, right, yeah,
and there's different approaches. Is not like the correct approach on the incorrect
approach. Different approaches. Yes, so they're both can lead to either or
becoming the strongest in the universe. They just have their own way of doing
it. And I like it because it appears they're both going to be working
off of instinct based on Vegeta's last line in the latest chapter, But Vegeta
seems to be following an instinct based on destruction, while Goku is following an
instinct based on a calm heart. Right, So that's the difference. And
you have Beerist who straight up says, as long as doubt weighs down your
soul to Vegeta, this power will never be yours to wield, So your
own crimes aside, you're feeling guilty for the sins of all sayings. That's
awfully self centered of immortal. And then you know he goes on to say
that he he played a role in telling Freeza to wipe out the sands,
which he could have made up just to rile him up right, to let
him to let go. But I thought that was so important because the whole
time where you know, saying Vegeta is becoming a better, better human being
kind of thing, but there are limitations to how guilty he can feel and
how much he feels like he needs to own and how much that's keeping him
back. So the fact that his journey this arc was letting go almost of
the limiters and of the past and feeling sorry about what everything had happened,
and just embracing destruction in not in like in a neutral way, not in
an evil way, but in like a neutral way. I thought that was
very cool. I think it's very badass, and I honestly don't think they
could have done something better with Vegeta. We could talk about later how the
form looks and all of that. I know there are mixed opinions on that,
but the fact that he went this line of the god of Destruction route
to me is a great choice. Yeah, No, it fits his personality
well and I think it was interesting And now do you want to drop as
well? So we get that plot line going on with that whole kind of
mini training arc and they're working on their own unique like fighting styles and at
the same time, just going back to Granola, we get that controversial moment
where he ends up summoning the dragon balls because again, like and the thing
with this is Granola unlike some of the other quote unquote antagonists like his his
motive seems pretty authentic, like he wants to avenge his people. He's you
know, we've seen it with others as well, Like he's not a pure
villain in that sense. So he ends up taking the shortcut route, resurrecting
the dragon and finally making and I believe this is the first time in all
of Dragon Ball, the wish that he wants to be the strongest warrior in
the universe. Yeah, and so that's that's the thing that might have robbed
some people the wrong way. So let me know your thoughts, So,
especially after seeing how that turns out, because you know, just that one
chapter could have a different effect than if you see his progression. For me,
I am even when it first happened, I was okay with it because
when I viewed Granola as a possible antagonist, there wasn't anything necessarily exceptional about
him, and I kind of again, I felt bad for him at parts
where like he gives that seventy three's head to the heaters and they end up
just beating the shit out of him, Like he seems like someone who was
like again, like bullied, and here he is again it's a shortcut approach
to be able to become the strongest warrior, but then he's able to get
a bit of revenge there on the heaters later on when he shows them up,
and again his main goal is Freeze at that moment. It's not until
later when they planted in his head about the sayings. But I was okay
with it, and I know, obviously this wish has gone into my head
for a while. I thought, why hasn't this been brought up yet?
But at the same time, Ember, At first, when I thought about
it, I'd be like, it'd just be too easy, right, someone
just wishing for it, But then you realize there are a limitation to it,
the limitations, And I think our guys personally don't want borrowed power,
like they wouldn't wish for that because they want to actually a cent at that
level of martial arts on their own. But say someone like Freezer, that
was never a wish for them. And I always thought, like, you
know, why not, Why isn't this an option? Why haven't people thought
about it? And now you realize yet obviously that limitation is you're the strongest
person at that very moment. Number One, that's a limitation. It can't
like people could surpass you later on. And number two, just because you're
the strongest doesn't mean you actually know how to use that power correctly. And
we see through the later fights in some instances, I know, I ended
up watching your YouTube video just came up, so you mentioned even in that,
like when he's fighting with Vegeta before Vegeta ends up having that transformation at
the end, like he's wincing in pain over like normal shots to his body
because he's just not used to it. He's not a fighter. Yeah,
exactly, there are limitations again, And I said that in the review,
because yeah, Vegeta, how many times has this dude been in fights with
insanely powerful opponents and just gotten punched and punched and kicked and just bounced back
right, And this guy is not used to that level. So as soon
as like now his I guess you could say spoiled self with this new power
comes along, he gets hurt a bit and then it's like holy shit,
like he's not as good as good at taking it as these seasoned fighters.
Yeah, and there's a moment wherever Jeta says like The thing I like most
about fighting is you don't know the outcome. Like he is a season fighter,
he knows that in order to win a fight, it's something that's going
to be this back and forth between the fighters, like it's gonna take you're
gonna have to go through tons of pain. And Granola doesn't understand that because
again he's not a warrior. So he's like, that's another don't get it.
Yeah, he's straight up like, I don't get it. I'm the
strongest, he doesn't think even though the Namechian on his planet that he lives
with and Vegeta both said, just because your strongest, just because your strongest
right now, doesn't mean you'll be strongest tomorrow, whatever, whatever. It's
like a fleeting thing, and yet he seems to have trouble comprehending that,
like it's not like, yo, you're the strongest and that's it. No,
as Vegeta said, he's getting stronger during the fight, And I think
we all predicted something like this would happen, where yeah, he's strongest for
the moment, but then Vegeta and Goku will in some way get there,
hopefully, like we'll see sometimes they work together, but here. I have
a feeling they'll be able to beat him without working together, but we'll see
again. As Kingley Logan said in the chat, like I also hope Goku
doesn't come in last minute and take to W. I hope it really,
Like you know, vegeta vegeta gets a W if someone's gonna get a W
for once. But either way, we got the new form as of a
fan, I am happy. I did want to ask, though, so
what did you think about the limitations, like the sacrifice he had to make
to reach that level of power. So he's let's just put this into context
a bit. His race lives two hundred years and this dude is fifty years
old, and what he said is, you have three years left now.
So he shaved off like pretty much one hundred and fifty years from his lifespan
to become the strongest in the universe. What do you think of that?
Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting condition. I don't know if it's
a condition that's specific to those dragon balls, like if you were to wish
for that on Earth or Namic, whether it would be different, But again,
to me, it speaks to that whole desperation, and I didn't like
feel like, oh, like, what an asshole for doing that, because
again I'm looking at especially at the time, he's doing it to avenge his
people, So in a weird way, it's kind of this. I viewed
it as this kind of noble endeavor where he's like, I'm going to basically
I could live kind of comfortably if I wanted for one hundred and fifty years,
but in order to defeat Forget, to avenge my sorry, kill freeze,
avenge my people, I'm going to make the sacrifice and only live for
three years. So I actually saw it as like it was, in my
opinion, kind of noble. I don't think he did it as this way
to like, because you see other people they're just they want to be the
most powerful person to just flux on people for no particular purpose. He has
that purpose there, and that's why I'm a bit more sympathetic to him as
an antagonist compared to other agon Like he's been through hell, right, and
yeah, I think he's a character foil for Vegeta as well, because not
only does Vegeta have to face the sins of the sayings of the past,
which Beers is like, bro, that's not your thing. Get over it.
Also, Vegeta was in this view before. He's like, I must
get revenge against Freezer. I must get revenge against Cacarat. I like he
was also this guy driven by a sense of revenge. So it is interesting
to see now the role he plays with maybe guiding Granola in a better direction.
And yeah, I agree with you, Granola is easier to sympathize with,
at least in the beginning, because yeah, like you see how haunted
he is by obviously his whole race was wiped out, right except him,
Like, that's that's one thing. That's a huge thing. And he's reminded
us every day by looking at the old city that was destroyed and like the
great ape footprints on the ground and everything. So this dude, like,
imagine if someone killed not only your family, not only your friends, but
like everyone, every human being. You get why he'd want revenge, right,
It's a human emotion. But then he starts taking it too far away.
He's like, I want to eradicate all sayings, which is the same
sort of thinking that led to his people being wiped out. So yeah,
you see that he's becoming what he hates, which is which is what happens
when you get lost in a single minded the pursuit of revenge without thinking about,
you know, the ethical implications. Yeah, no, absolutely, Like
you knew that him wishing for that would also change him as a person,
Like you don't just become the strongest warrior and keep your same ethics all of
a sudden, now that you have this power, this privilege, then you
start again going off truck. And he does go off truck there and lumping
the sayings in there and wanting to eradicate their race. So I totally agree
with what you said he does. His character is shifting as we approach those
later chapters. Yeah, at the beginning, he like, you know,
you could totally get I love a good revenge story. I have videos,
I think at least four videos on YouTube about the best revenge moment and Ani
man I dissect revenge and what makes a good revenge story. And obviously he
well, I was very interested in his revenge. But at the same time,
yeah, like you know, he loses his way and a lot of
people do, and it's not as powerful because he's like the side character I
was just introduced, right, compared to like one of our main characters finally
getting revenge, like the Count of Monte Crystal for example, how much he
works and in order to carry out his revenge and how intricate it is.
This is more so fast paced than it's a side character, so not as
powerful, but still it hooked me that specific aspect. And even though at
the beginning I was a bit like, yo, I don't feel like we're
getting enough of our main characters, because you know, it's a long wait
a month for every chapter. Now I'm in a place where I'm enjoying it
and yeah, well we'll see how it goes. Yeah, for sure they
were as a character. It'll be interesting to see how he evolves as well,
because of a gena now knows what's happening and that they're being tricked.
The only thing is is Granola going to be able to look beyond his prejudice
and actually see these sayings as people who aren't pure evil? H No,
absolutely, I was just gonna say before we get into the actual like fight
stuff that happened in kind of the later chapters that we read, like,
there was this how'd you find that? Hilarious moment? I thought it was
funny when they end up going to I believe Zuno, right, yeah,
yeah, and they end up saying like, so we want to find out
their weakness and then we find out it's their wives and how they basically you
know, end up catering to whatever they want. I found that was hilarious
because I was actually when they asked that, I'm like, man, like,
this is actually I kind of want to know myself, like what is
that thing that they always been to? And then for them to slip that
in there was pretty funny and it actually it worked well with ye them to
that planet like, it worked well I thought in the plot as well.
Yeah, yeah, I do want to say Scooby Doo commented that he really
liked the change in locations for all the fights, and yeah, that was
one of the things in this thing that there were so many fights happening in
different places right, different settings, and then we even went to see Zuno
right as well. Um, I thought it was cool. I obviously more
so Seeva Geta being almost uh tied to Boma more so than Goku to Chee
Chee, because I feel like Goku does his own thing anyways, but Chee
Chee does sometimes, you know, succeed in getting him to be a farmer
or something like that. But at the end of the day, I definitely
buy Boma being Machita's weakness more than Cheechi being Goku's. Hm. That's an
interesting that's just that's just my opinion before we saw this section where you know,
now in the story it's confirmed that Chichi is Goku's weakness too, But
just looking at all the past instances, like you know, at the end
of the day, Goku does what he wants to, right, and at
the end of Dragon Ball Z, he's not like, oh, Cheechi,
you need me here, you know, I'm gonna stay. He's like,
hey, guys, so I'm gonna go train this kid all right, piece
out right, it doesn't matter what Chetchi thinks. Yeah, oh my godness,
which I mean, we could talk about this later with Dragon Ball Evolution.
It's what Dragonall Evolution got so wrong. But that's another conversation. Yeah,
exactly, that's That's exactly what crossed my mind as well, Um that
I thought the focus was too much on how much power cheat she had over
Goku, and here you're kind of reaffirming that. But here here it's more
comedic. So I'm not thinking it like too seriously, but yeah, and
I love how she's like it's that financial reason again, like when they mentioned,
oh, for them to make money. Then she's totally into him going
somewhere to fight. Yeah, exactly, and they find some common ground that
way. I really enjoyed how they said, all right, so you like
gold, we'll give you your weight in gold if you guys succeed, And
she's like, oh, gotta go put on some more pounds, right,
She's like she's listening. They're gonna measure her afterwards, so she has to
get fattered to get more gold. It's so funny. Yeah, no,
that was a that was a great momentum. But yeah, let's get to
the actual fight because they were they were pretty interesting. I mean, I
don't want to say just before we get to that Namechian had a good line
where he he's kind of the stoic to Granola's stuck in his revenge kind of
story, and then Ameician told him give up on the dragon balls and enjoy
the lot we've been handed in life, like that's that's his view, and
he's like, yo, we got a pretty good you know, you don't
want to be rude to the Sugarians, right, because they're you know,
they're not It's not their fault. They paid. They're just trying to like
live and yeah, let's enjoy our life. There's you know, they have
money, they have somewhere to live. But yeah, for Granola, it's
not enough. For fifty years, has been fuming and he's been hating the
fact that he can't get revenge. And then suddenly fifty years later, Freezer
comes back, the sayings come back, everything he's been thinking about all these
years. He's like, finally have a purpose for a living, and so
he can't he has a listen to the Amician stoic he just does his own
thing. Yeah, the Amicians do have an interesting life philosophy. I really
wish we got more of it. Yeah, yeah, and I mean we
do get it every so often, and we probably will get more in a
Mechian stuff. Right, But Piccolo is also like definitely stoic compared to most
characters. So it doesn't surprise me that this Namechian had a similar train of
thought. Yeah, because we talked about it might have been even last episode.
How they also believe like not to again, they don't believe in revenge
and if someone wrongs you, you know, you just have to kind of
let it go and move past. So yeah, there we get those little
nuggets here and there of like Namechian wisdom, which I really do appreciate.
Yeah, No, I really enjoyed that. It's like it's like in real
life where you get like a culture different from your own and they have all
these unique ideas, like, for example, for US Westerners, there's a
lot of interesting stuff in Buddhism and stuff like that. I feel like when
we learn more about the Namechians, it's that kind of same feeling. Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. But yeah, the fights themselves, I mean,
I love how again it's like Goku going first, so then Vegeta it's possibly
his time to shine, because it's always the other way around. Goku is
always like there's others who were going before, then Goku always jumps in.
So what did you think? What did you think when we initially got the
second last chapter Goku versus Grandola. Did that lead you to believe that Goku
would fail and then Magina would do better or what were you thinking it did?
For a couple of reasons. Firstly, it just seems like just what
I'm used to with the whole Dragon Ball series. If there's another fighter on
the sideline, especially one who we don't know his potentis, especially not Krell.
Yeah, but if there's one on the sideline who's just waiting, chances
are it always gets to that fighter number one. So I'm just used to
that. But also the way Beers through the earring to Vegeta before they left,
I'm like, all right, something badass is going to happen here.
So like him being on the sideline, having the earring, knowing he've been
training with Beers, knowing the potential of Beers, I'm like, I feel
like Vegeta is gonna step in. It might not be a full out like
Goku loss, even in this case you saw it was. But because we've
before, we've seen like Goku remember that one time, I think in the
Cell tournament or something like, he just kind of stepped away, So it
might be like he's having difficulty and Vegeta steps in. But yeah, we
full out get within that first fight, right, Goku of course doing what
he always does in that he's always testing the waters, right, starting with
Super sayand and God and then eventually we get to see that ultra instinct,
though we find out it's still limited, like he hasn't necessarily fully perfected it
like the Angels. So yeah, that was I mean, the fight was
interesting. It was I found with Goku pretty even at points, but then
you obviously see Granola finding those vital spots because of his eye, which is
his kind of unique advantage he has is he's able to note those spots.
And there were a couple like massive we talked about like last time, where
that one shot that went through Goku was pretty noteworthy. It wasn't like that
per se, but there were a couple noteworthy vital shots with Goku where like
several of those frames within the manga just focus on Goku just like losing his
energy almost. It's like that kind of knocking your wind out of you and
he's just on the ground and suffering there. So it was interesting to see,
you know, the struggle that he had after that whole hype of him
trying to perfect that ultra instinct. How did you think of the fight?
Yeah, so Goku versus Granola first, right, Yeah, Yeah, I
thought it was interesting because again, Goku, for better or worse, he
could be annoyingly like easy to catch off guard, right, And that happens
immediately when Vegeta has to give him a sense of being before the initial fight
between him and Granola start, right, and he's like, oh, I'm
just doing this, I'm just doing this ultra instinct thing, and then like
you're not taking it, you know, super serious. And then Vegeta has
to be the rational one all the time, and he says, Goku,
if you haven't mastered it yet, just focus on your mind with your mind
right now, and you know, ease into it. It doesn't have to
be you know, right away, start with this thing you haven't mastered,
and then get get killed, right, And so Goku comes back, and
then he obviously does better. You know, he needs to do that classic
dragon Ball thing where it's testing each other's power. So instead of actually going
full out from the beginning, he slowly goes through all the forms. So
it's like super sayan super saying God, Super sayan Blue, this is my
final form, super Saian ultra instinct. And so finally he gets ultra instinct
and then he starts kicking ass right, and we're like, this is weird.
He's supposed to be the strongest and yet Goku is beating him, but
he's kicking ass. And then we figure out this was just a clone,
so a portion of Granola's power, and then the original hits Goku, catching
him off guard again, and Goku collapses for the second time, and then
it's Vegeta's time to go. So interesting. Interesting. I like to see
Goku, you know, do well against the clone. I thought it was
actually super Hype when we found out it was a clone. And then Granola
took him out in one move. But again I don't know, as like,
if we're power scaling, we gotta be careful because how much of that
was just him being caught off guard. Granola himself said that this form is
getting less accurate the more he used it with the white hair, right,
so he's been using it for a while to fight the clone, so probably
he wasn't as best. So I'm definitely not saying that just because super Sian
Blue Vegeta does better than all Transta Goku against the non clone, that super
Sian Blue Vegeta is stronger than all transtant Goku. Definitely not right. So
there is that stuff getting caught off guard, but at the same time,
the way Vegeta brings to Granola, especially after the transformation, and the look
on Granola's face of like terror, and the fact that his shots aren't doing
anything beyond getting beyond Vegeta's aura, and the fact that he's sweating the original
him shows to me that I think at least a bit Legeta with this form
has surpassed Goku temporarily. Now we'll see, but I think he's earned it.
Yeah, no, I agree, Yeah, you can totally make that
argument with Vegeta. But yeah, I mean that whole fight with Goku is
interesting too, when he ends up going ultra instinct and he's actually starting to
you talked about Granola like sweating with Vegeta, like he starts not being able
to make proper contact with Goku here and there because of that ultra instinct.
So you see, there's a lot of potential within that form. And even
Goku says like I have a limited time, maybe he hasn't. Even even
if he has like that time he has with it, maybe it's not that
full potential even that it could go, it'll be it's not right, we
know one hundred percent, Like he has more to go. Vegeta will have
more to go in this form, like that's the thing with Dragon Ball,
there's no ceiling. But yeah, so it would be interesting to have seen
Goku go all out right away, ultra instinct full power before he loses any
accuracy against non clone Granola. We just didn't see that, right. Yeah,
so again, nothing's guaranteed. But to everyone who says, like Yo
Legita cancer bas Goku because it's an angel's technique versus I got a destruction technique
that's pretty much been disproven in the actual manga, Legitta can surpass Goku with
this technique. Yeah, And I mean, are there kind of like Goku
I don't know what the right word is, like fanboys out there who are
kind of like, man, we can't we can't see Goku, you know,
the second on the list. Ever, Like I don't understand what the
whole tie in where people are just obsessed with the idea that Goku has to
be on top of all the time. I'm totally fine with vegeta bro.
I'm not even fine. I prefer for them to be sent back and forth.
But yeah, I mean there are Goku fanboys and then there are just
more like rational people who are like let's not jump to any conclusions until we
have more. But I think part of the fun is, you know,
what do we think? What do we think? And I think and I'm
probably biased because I wanted it to happen, but I think Majeta has temporarily
surpassed Goku. And what's the point of a shiny new form if it doesn't
even surpass a form we've already seen, Right, Obviously, Goku can get
stronger, but Ga can get stronger at this moment though, but gah better
be stronger. R. Yeah, here's the thing as well. Um,
we've seen a lot of the potential with Berris in terms of him him being
able to destroy planets at one point, he actually at the beginning of Super
fought Goku, though he was definitely holding back at you know, a lot
at the time. But with weis weis to me is still like a mystery,
like his whole Angel form. He always like spars with people, like
with Goku, but he's still clouded mystery for me what his potential is.
So yeah, like I would, I wouldn't totally discount that Angel we talked
about, like the martial arts school, like that Angel approach to fighting because
I just haven't seen much of WEIS and it's cool how we finally like get
a little bit of a glimpse into WEIS. Yeah, I wouldn't discount anything
at all, because yeah, Goku one hund has the potential with through all
transting to surpass Mageta one hundred percent. He hasn't reached the ceiling of all
transting. And I think the whole point is they even said Maris didn't know
it as well as weis, so even among people as ops Maris, there's
places to grow. So yeah, again I'm not bagging on the all transting
form at all. I think it can get much stronger than Goku's is currently,
but I'm just saying, yeah, like it goes both ways, don't
underestimate either form. Yeah, I'm excited to see what potential there is with
Vegeta, and I mean Vegeta even points that we talked about power rankings,
and he basically it's interesting because you know, this whole especially dragon ball Z,
is all about like power ranking different people, and he finally just points
to the FATL list and like power rankings are a moment in time and let's
just like forget about power rankings, like Vegeta actually put it's almost like as
the reader, I'm like, all right, like I could totally get on
board with that, Like let's just forget about it, Like how he points
to that fact, and you know, dragon Ball Z or sorry, dragon
Ball Z, dragon Ball Super just makes the whole power ranking thing a little
bit more ambiguous now. And I like that because not that I've been power
scaling, you know, at any point in the last you know, while
especially in Super we know, like put that to the side. Dragon Ball
is not the most logical show out there, so it's tough to power rank
things. But I just like how we pushed it the side. And yeah,
we don't know what potential there is with Vegeta, but let's just get
to that transformation. It is pretty sick. Let's not even get the transformation
yet. First, Let's go to him getting that wound that transforms him from
super Sam Blue to normal. Yeah, this is one of my favorite parts.
Even without the transformation, this would have been one of my favorite chapters
for this reason. So Vegeta gets hit, it breaks his armor and he
goes back to normal form. It is a big wound. He spits out
blood like you can see it in his eyes right there, blood stained.
He looks horrible, and yet he's fucking loving it. Bro, this is
a pinnacle Vegeta, he says, this is my happy place, right.
There's no planet to protect, no people to save, just immersed in battle,
just the thing to get a battle craze, sayings, blood pumping wholely.
Shit man. At that moment, that kind of reaction to getting this
seemingly mortal wound was so hype in and of itself. It's what I love
about Vegeta. It's the most badass character in the series being his best And
yeah, I just wanted to say, how did you feel about that?
I thought even before Transformation I was loving that moment. No, I'm glad
you mentioned that because I just totally glossed over that. But no, that
was sick. And it goes back to that whole saying like philosophy, how
basically for the sayings like the more you get beat up, the better it
is because we hasn't been brought up in a while, Yeah, you get
that growth. I don't know if it's the I don't know if I'm remembering
right, Like the zen Kai boost or whatever. But yeah, yeah,
once you get once you get close to death and you come back. It's
been a thing. But the weird thing is they really start stop bringing that
up after Freeza as much. Right, So again now we're kind of wondering
how much are he still playing by those rules? But it's been established in
the Cannon stories, So yeah, that has to be a thing. Yeah,
it has to be a thing. But like, besides that, there's
a whole other significance. Just I love the fact that, like he acknowledges
you have to experience pain. You know, pain is actually in a weird
way, he like reframes it. It's it's a good thing and he loves
you know, fighting is all about facing adversity through that pain. And again
he loves that in embracing of discovered embracing of pain. And yeah, it's
a pretty pretty epic moment because we see Granola he is someone who absolutely hates
pain, and again he's taking the shortcut Forgita realizes that like, hey,
I just got you know, the wind knocked out of me. Great,
now it's an actual fight. Now it could get hyped up. Whereas Granola,
the non warriors like man I gotta finish this not experience any pain,
like Vegita realizes, to be a warrior, you have to experience pain.
And it's it's a great moment where it's like, yes, now this is
a real fight. Yeah, exactly, And I'm glad you brought that contrast
because the contrast between them during this fight is so interesting from the perspective that
the strongest fighter. If you look at when Vegeta finally lands a hit on
his hips or like his leg or whatever, the dude freaks out right,
almost like a little girl, and Vegita gets like a mortal wound and he's
smiling, right. So just the difference in mindset there, the difference in
experience and how an experienced fighter will behave compared to someone who's not experienced,
and the fact that Vegita's winning the mental game this whole time, right,
like he's getting on Granola's nerves or he's maintaining his cool, and he's purposely
kind of attacking his city that was already once destroyed by the sayings to get
him to even lose focus and lose the school even more so that he'll kind
of become a worse fighter and even I've heard a theory as well that perhaps
Vegita, all the while while mentally making him weaker through this psychological warfare,
is also might be using for spirit fishing to kind of separate some power off
of him with the blows, so he'll keep doing better and better as the
fight goes on. Right, So, I'm not super sure how for spirit
fishing works and whether, you know, since this is supposedly his own power
and not like borrowed power from someone. I mean, it is borrowed,
but it's not like, you know, the same as moral So I'm not
exactly sure if Vegita is using if he wants to use it, But that's
just another possibility for his character at this point. Yeah, it could be
part of me though, kind of wants this to be like, you know,
not yeah, like like yo, this is overpowered, not a combination
of like yeah exactly. I think Vegeta would want that too, because yeah,
if it was just to say the world or something, then more so
I could see him using for a spirit fishing because it's kind of like a
trick. He'd even considered a trick. So I'd like to think that right
now, he just wants to go all out see what he's capable of,
and that means keeping Granola at his strongest too. M Yeah, I know,
I totally agree because that I don't know, Vegeeta's always you know,
he wants to see the potential, like the absolute full potential on his opponents,
and that would kind of cheapen the whole exactly. And even even with
Goku, we've seen him give signs of beans to his villain, to his
opponents, and Mageta as a more prideful person, So I'd be I'd be
more surprised if he's using for a spirit fishing then if he just gave him
a sense of being because he was being cocky. Yeah, but yeah,
I love the whole kind of the road that Begeta is going on, both
with the new form but also the whole mindset. And I mean he's he's
always had like a really tough mindset to again with it's not that he's ever
had a weak mindset, but yeah, that whole mental game he plays with
Granola leading up in that last chapter, like you mentioned, is absolutely awesome.
And again he's someone who I just love how he's a veteran fighter at
this point, he knows the ins and outs of it, and this whole
training with Beeris has really brought him to the next level and I absolutely love
that. Yeah, we're seeing him finally like the kind of calm in his
power, right which not in the same way as like, you know,
calm heart, but he's okay with embracing the destruction. He's okay with letting
go of the guilt and you know, the past and his past and his
people's past. Ask and Yo, thank you so much Evanito for the raid.
Welcome everyone. We were just discussing the latest chapter of Dragon Ball Super
and we're mentioning Vegeta's new form right now. So yeah, and I really
I love the transformation. I think, you know, Vegeta needed somewhere to
go because he got his atonement arc kind of in the last one with Moro
and the the Mechians. So what's beyond atonement? And that comes to no
longer letting your guilt of the past control you limit you. And Berus is
helping him release those limitations, and this is a form that sort of finally
embraces that. What did you think of the look of god A Destruction with
Gita. Yeah, the look was pretty cool because we might have mentioned this
at some point, if not, I know we talked about it, like
off air. He has that super say three look, which he never got
It was always like Goku h three and then Vegeta never got there, just
he skipped over it. So he gets that super Sayan three look with the
no eyebrows that Goku What's had, which I thought was a pretty badass look.
And then I believe the hair is purple or people are stizing its purple
as far as I know, it's just it's a theory. It makes sense
in the sense that you know, Bers has that purple aesthetic, the Hakai
energy has that purple aura that Bers uses, so it would make sense for
it to be purple. But at this point I don't think it's confirmed by
anyone. Who Yeah, I just love it because I love that look,
because it it's this kind of it's like, I don't want to say a
stoic look because that's a very like, very stereotypical kind of description, but
it's this kind of badass look that I just love the aesthetic of super Sayan
three, not necessarily like the hair is pretty cool, but just the face
how it's this weird kind of his old face and it looks like nothing could
like it looks just very razor focused. And I love that look on Vegeta
because we got it with Goku, didn't get it with Vegetau. So yeah,
esthetically, I really like it as a as a form, and yeah,
like even the energy emitting from him is pretty cool itself. It's not
like a crazy prolonged transformation like maybe we got with like Super Saiyan one or
something, So it's the transformation self leading up. Wasn't this crazy crazy thing,
But yeah, I mean it's pretty it's pretty bad us the end result,
he just looks like this razor like razor focused in fighter, and yeah,
I love it. How about yourself? Yeah, so some people said
it's a rep off of Super Saian three, right, So I mean they
are reusing that look. You know, you can't deny that. But at
the same time, it is a cool look that doesn't get any screen time
anymore. Really, right, how is it for Goku to go superstand three?
And it does seem to be a look with like how stern it is
and how bad ass it looks that would go more well with Vegeta's character than
with Goku's right, Yeah, and yeah, it looks badass obviously. You
know, you could talk about whether it should have been something original, whether
like they should reuse something that already happened, But at the end of the
day, it looks badass. It's a cool looking form. I can't wait
to see the power Vegeta's shining. It's Vegeta at his absolute best. So
you know, I'm happy as a fan. I've never been this excited to
see what dragon Ball Super has to offer next. And that's starting from an
arc where I wasn't super invested immediately because you know, it was going slow
paced with these other characters that are our main characters. I think that this
arc has really come into its own now I'm super excited. I think it
might be depending on how it goes, too early to say, but might
be the best Dark and dragon Ball Super depending on how they go from here.
So yeah, I think it's a good sign for dragon Ball fans in
general. And yeah, with the dragon Ball Super, more and more news
about the movie coming out, and I think twenty twenty two, you know,
it's perfect to raise the hype even more. Gives time to shine,
keeping things fresh, not having Goku aways in the lead. Yeah, I'm
very satisfied. Yeah, and I'm totally fine with not having Goku in the
lead all the time, because again, it just gets repetitive and things become
expected. I am totally on board, same as you are with having Vegeta,
you know, get his give his moment to shine like finally, like
in Super he doesn't really have, you know, that moment where he he
shines, and I just I want to see that here. Obviously, I'm
expecting a pretty badass fight. I don't think it's just going to be him
like beating the shit out of Granola and then you know, we that's how
it ends. I think I don't know what's going to happen next, but
ye will have to come in at some point, probably Gas right because he's
been hyped up. Maybe Freeza because he's obviously been hovering around this this arc.
Yeah, who knows what happens, but hopefully we get a pretty like
badass fight. But yeah, just I'm curious to know what happens because we
see beers and beers. Really he never fights, you know, any pony
doesn't take on an opponent, But just the fact that there's such a difference
between what like previous Figita was doing in terms of being able to, you
know, inflict pain on other people. And now that you have that destructive
element to yourself where remember he was working with the rock and then eventually went
to that big, huge boulder and he's like, it's completely different, Like
Beers is explaining, it's not the same as just being able to, you
know, break apart this rock. You're actually destroying it, You're erasing it,
you're eliminating it. And so I'm really excited to see how Vegeta has
honed that power. And who knows, maybe he can't fully like sustain this
power or you know, like you mentioned it, they're all work in progress
at this point. Yeah, but I really want to see how he adds
that destructive element. Yeah, Like if this true, if this form truly
surpasses Goku's at his gogu, at his strongest, then I mean it would
be pretty crazy if it didn't have its own limit, right because obviously Goku's
does. So if this surpassitor power and is unlimited, that that wouldn't make
much sense. So yeah, we'll see. I just hope the limit isn't
too short. Yeah, Well we'll see, but It's definitely something I accept.
Honestly, I've accepted if if he just kicks ass and he proves he's
stronger in that moment, then then Granola is and then fuck he loses his
form, but they have to figure out another way to beat him. I'd
accept that. I'd still prefer that to um to this not being enough to
the feed Granola or or even maybe I'd accept that as long as it's not
like Goku just you know, comes in and one ups him again, right,
as long as there's some kind of caveat for Yo vegeta did it he
surpassed Goku temporarily, and then we'll see what happens. Yeah, I'm just
I'm excited to see, like, what's he going to be like in a
fight if he has the potential to you know destroy, Yeah, will be
interesting. But also just the power set, the move sets, what kind
of attacks, what's special about them? Yeah, I can't wait to see
that. Um. Yeah, So I think that covers the all the way
up to caught up on dry Ball Super. Guys. We started with dragon
Ball and now we're caught up the fucking dragon Ball Super been a crazy ride.
Um, Now we wanted to do as like a special treat a bonus
to also talk about the dragon Ball Evolution movie. Obviously not not praise it,
but maybe you know, make fun of it a bed, maybe say
what we didn't hate about it. So initial thoughts ray on the dragon Ball
Evolution movie. So I tried my very best to go into the movie without
any like, you know, a cynical view of it. I really tried
to be open to the whole process, and like, I get this kind
of right when the movie opened, I got this kind of like karate kid
esque. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, especially when
they had the little tournament with Chichi and that girl who stole her blood,
which was so random, like they pipe us up for a tournament and that
there's just that one scene that's just so she can steal her blood. Yeah.
But even like even at the very beginning when he's with his grandfather,
and I thought, okay, like that's that's pretty cool. It was interesting
how obviously with Gohan meaning the grandfather, like they actually have him alive because
within the actual obviously dragon Ball series, Goku is a young you know baby,
when Gohan ends up dying, so to have him like growing up in
his teenage years with Gohan. There's is a little bit different, but I
totally got like when his grandfather died, I totally got this kind of Spider
Man Peter Parker has Field or it's like, you know, it's not the
same, but it's just like not that. Not only that, like there
was such Spider Man feels to it, Like even the fact when he was
like catching all those um cubes he knocked down at that guy's house, right,
do you remember there was like a Roshi's house. He knocked out some
stuff and then he like tried to not make noise. Dude, that was
exactly like when Spider Man like catches all those cafeteria things, yeah remember,
or beating up the bullies. Yeah, Like there was This was more felt
like a Spider Man vibe than Dragon Ball. And you wouldn't you wouldn't even
know this because you haven't watched Avatar. But why did they mention airbending?
Like that's that's an Avatar thing from out there? Last airbender never mentioned in
dragon Ball, and yet airbending the final form is the comman at Mail?
What what bending? Different elements? Like it's it's so random, honestly,
Like I was expecting it to be horrible, so you know, it didn't
surpass my expectations. Like, you know, it didn't surpass my expectations for
how horrible it would be, because like people have been banging on it so
much. But um, I could see why people bag on it, and
just some stuff didn't seem necessary, Like they put go qu in high school,
but the majority of the story doesn't take place in high school, so
why even have that described see between the main story and this, Um,
obviously there was as we were going to get to the fact that he's crazy
about Cheech, constantly hitting on her. She's the main motivation for him to
get stronger rather than like a like a love of fighting dude, that is
not Goku's character. And not only that, but he kisses her. We
find out in the dragon Ball series he's never kissed Chea Chi. Yeah,
like what are you doing? And that that that raises the attention like how
much did these guys actually know like about the story, and how much was
just like, oh, we watched a few episodes, let's just go with
it, do our own high school approach. Yeah, again, that was
a good point. I didn't even notice like that they kiss in the movie,
they don't in real life. In the in real life in the anime,
um that was random. What else was there? Like? Then,
Mechians were portrayed were set to be an alien race that nearly destroyed the world,
right, that's what they're known as, even though in the anime they're
this peaceful race. Who you know, Piccolo happened to be this evil person,
but in general, the Amicians aren't to blame. Obviously, we wouldn't
even know that they were a Mechians at the dragon Ball part, he was
just this evil kind of creature. Yeah, and why call him Goku?
I think that's the main thing, because I mean, if they wanted to
just kind of do something that happens in kind of that world, they didn't
have to call him Goku. But they call him Goku and completely change his
character. Right, Yeah, his character was absolutely ruined from the from the
actual series itself, Like you said, he's into girls, he obsesses over
girls. He is not that in the actual series itself. He you know,
in the series itself, he just wants to fight to get stronger,
whereas here, like you mentioned, he's trying to impress Cheechy. He wants
to see revenge, she's like angry too, Like if you remember, yeah,
when the bullies are like and Goku is the most carefree dude, right,
Yeah, he's like trying to contain his anger. He's trying his best,
and it's just like, you know, he would never do that.
He just laughed them off and not even understand the context. Yeah, naive,
Goku is not there. Yeah, Goku is not there. Right,
that's kind of that's kind of the thing we see. I did, aside
from the fact that he's supposed to be Goku, which makes no sense,
I did like some of his lines, like I did you know there was
that actor did have some moments that would work in like a high school movie,
even if it didn't work as Gokum, like some of his cad dialogue
with Chee Chee. You know. It wasn't horrible, but yeah, it
just felt like they took another movie and applied the filter of dragon Ball to
it. Oh yeah, no, it was. It was a typical kind
of like American team love story movie was that's something you can't apply that.
You can't get dragon Ball and apply that whole structure to it. It ruins
the whole thing. I'd say it's someone who And again I don't want to
be too critical because I always appreciate people putting in the work to create something,
all right, But at the same time, you have to admit this
is not the soul of dragon Ball. They haven't captured a spirit of dragon
They took some superficial stuff and kind of told a completely different story. Yeah,
that's a good way to put it. It's very superficial and like gloss
over a lot of things. And yeah, I mean even you talked about
Piccolo, did you totally have you watched the mask Jim carries the mask?
I did. I didn't make the comparison, but it did seem like,
I don't know, strikingly unrealistic, look like you know what I mean.
Yeah, I didn't buy it. I didn't buy that that that was in
the mechi and I don't know how you do a good one right exactly,
but yeah, it just seemed like a dude wearing a mask ask. Yeah,
No, that was that was weird. The whole Boma thing too,
coming in Like I kind of enjoyed the aesthetic that the actress had, Okay,
becauseyeah, it was very different from the Boma from Yeah, it was
it was. I kind of enjoyed her aesthetic again as a standalone, not
as an adaptation of dragon Ball. I enjoyed her aesthetic. I enjoyed yanchas
aesthetic, right, I thought it was a fun character. Yeah, I
did like to see they're being included again. But if you if you haven't
watched this, you can't take it too seriously as you watch. Yeah,
I just I mean, we talked about the critiques of it being an actual
you know, following dragon Ball, the soul of dragon Ball, like you
mentioned, even I found the whole plot was there was some bumpiness to it,
like I found, yeah, just deciding to all right, let's just
like work together. That was so quick, Like it was just you know,
in order to move the plot along. And such a different character,
like you don't get that Boma Goku dynamic, right, Yeah, Like Ultimate
Cell here says in the beginning of dragon Ball, Goku was interested in girls
in the sense that he didn't know about the differences between male and females.
But at this point this actor at his age would be is interested in girls
and would be interested in a girl like Boma, while Goku just doesn't have
that interesting like that romantic interesting girls. Right, So I didn't buy the
fact that this Goku and Boma would like, you know, have no chemistry
whatsoever. Right, But yeah, it is kind of weird too because yeah,
obviously we find it on this movie. Goku is like he's a horn
dog. He likes girls and and it's him like let's just say that.
Yeah, for him to like not have any feelings for or thinking old like
she's hot, like the Boma that's in the movie is kind of weird.
But anyways, I guess they try to keep it authentic where they want it
to be, like this platonic relationship between the two. But I felt that
was rush the whole Boma thing as well, like the fighting like with him
and Piccolo, it was just at the end there, like it was,
it's weird, how you think, Like Dragon Ball Z it's a show that's
dedicated to martial arts fighting and the actual fighting part was so limited. Yeah,
and it went off the rails like the more it went on, um,
like the whole Goku being Ozaru right, the destroyer will destroy everything like
again it has that parallel and Dragon Ball, but again he becomes like this
wearable of creature that kills Masterosi by by not like sitting on him or eating
him, by like choking him out, Like why would Ozarus go through things
be to choke people out? Yeah, yeah, no, there was again
the air bending was so confusing to me. Um yeah, I mean at
the end of the day, I think there's plenty of cringe moments, and
one of them, by far was the I don't know if you watch after
the first bit of credits, but they kind of like left it opened to
a sequel or something where it kind of shows the credits and then it shows
like this chick bringing like some food to this to this guy in a bed
and it turns around and it's Piccolo, so he's still alive. So they
just left them on the battlefield to be rescued. Yeah, it's so bad,
man. No, there there are so many, even like Roch's Island
and it was little not Bald, right, They did keep a bit of
his girl craziness, so I even thought that was kind of toned down.
But it was kind of like four, like it didn't seem natural like where
you see it in the other one. It's just you know, really off
the rails, bald, pervertic, kind like It almost seemed like, oh,
they wanted to just make reference to it, like his shirt. Yeah,
was kind of perverted, but it wasn't even it was just like an
anime no, yeah, yeah, it was an anime girl. And instead
of having like a nude magazine, it was like I don't know, Sports
Illustrator or something like what naked girls, not like Bikini Issue or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah, everything was torn down and all that happened was there.
It was implied that he touched Boma's butt and she's like, yeah, I'm
gonna kill you if you do that again, and that was it. Mhm
right yeah. I would just was a ball, which like this dude was
way too young to be Rosy, right, yeah, no, that's the
point, like Master ros She's gotta be this old guy. And when I
first saw him when he was I did suspect that when they went into that
house it was going to be like Roch's house. They thought, Okay,
here's this kind of adaptation. You're gonna put it in the city all alone,
this house instead of on an island. But then when I saw Roshy,
like for the first time, I thought, police, don't make this
rochy. I know, what's going to happen. But this is not the
Roche I had in mind. And sure enough, when they revealed that,
I thought, oh god, they really they really screwed this up. Yeah,
he didn't fit the Rosy character whatsoever. That has to be said.
I did enjoy the fact that they tried to do a bit of an evil
containment wave obviously completely failed, but yeah there was that. Yeah, it
was like this clusterfuck of just stuff being stuck together from dragon Ball, random
things in random order, with a random Hollywood setting, right, Yeah,
that's the thing. There's I think there's two wrongs going on here. Number
one is they're not capturing like you mentioned, like the essence of dragon Ball.
That's number one. And yes, the number two, Yeah, but
number two the I just think the story is not put together well, like
like you mentioned, it's it seems like they're trying to clump these different things
together. And again, dragon Ball is this it's a show about like fighting,
and there was so little fighting, Like there was probably more instances of
like high school drama going at the beginning than actual fighting scenes. Yeah.
The fighting scenes too, they weren't good. Yeah, there's such a spider
Man field bro. Like even even the fact that he was looking at himself
in the mirror and like he tried to slick back his hair and a bounced
back on the mirror like bro again, such a nod to like Spider Man.
And when he's finally like looking at his glass to take them off,
like looking in the mirror, Like there's so many of that, like high
school moments. Um that was that was random too, like that the chick
could just get blood and kind of copy anyone. But another thing that was
random was how they decided to end it, right they were gonna go for
drying balls again, but he's like, no, I have one more stop
to make. He stops to cheat sheet and then they decide they need to
fight and it just stops when they're about to like land that hits on each
other like bro, cheech, you can't touch Goku. Bro, Like this
was always like this is evident. Yeah, no, that's one issue and
just kind of also relate to this we don't see like I don't see any
real growth of Goku as a fighter, Like how does he you see Pickle
At the beginning, he's literally able to destroy the house by putting his like
making a fist and blowing up the house. How does Goku all of a
sudden, based on who he was before, reach that crazy level of power
at the end, Like, there's no there's no growth like evident growth within
the movie. Yeah. The only thing there is is that one scene of
him carrying a heavy bag and running alongside the vehicle. That was the Yeah,
you know how much moments we had in dragging a ball with the training
that was the one moment of training there. Yeah, no, yeah,
I mean we expected this to happen, not that it's anything new, but
yeah, now we could finally say we know what's wrong with it on so
many levels. And I mean yeah, and if you haven't watched it,
we watched it, so you don't have to, but you know, maybe
you just want to see for yourself how crazy it is like for you?
Are there any even one? Are there any redeemable moments where you you're like,
you know what, I kind of like, I did think it was
kind of cool how the machines came about, you know, like the the
like driving vehicles, right, how they just kind of appeared like you know,
I think they use school effects to make that happen. Again, the
effects worked for me for that. They didn't work with the fighting, and
the fighting was just weird, like why would Goku? Like at the end,
Goku was like, you know, flying as if like you know,
strings were carrying him like in a play, and then he like flies into
with the commandment into the guy like and somehow the guy doesn't even have a
hole through him instead of instead of just you know, sticking on the ground
and doing the commandment. I didn't like the effects of the Commandment. Again,
I don't know how good they can make it. I don't know how
limited they are with like real life, but I didn't like the mistiness rather
than like a solid form of energy and was it Yeah, no, I
agree with that as well. And was there ever any mention of the command
man before that moment? Remember in dragon Ball, like it's considered Gohan's technique,
Like there's that, yeah, so practicing of it, Master Row she
is the one who said it's like the commandments like the final form of airbending,
Like what what the what? Like what the fuck is the airbending belonging
in Dragon Ball? I have no idea, but yeah, that's they did
talk about it a bit. I have no idea why it was at all
related to lighting candles except for that romantic moment like with with Chee Chee,
which was weird, right, like why like how is this a powerful attack
if all it does is like light candles? And he was impressive for lighting
three kid? Yeah there was. There was great flaws here um and ultimate
seal. Yeah, I agree. Thank god that this movie never became a
sequel, Like they clearly ended off the end, like after the credit scene
with like yo pickles coming back. But first of all, they shouldn't have
had a sequel if it's gonna be like this, and if they did,
like at least all use pickle, I guess yea, Like the dude should
have been defeated there, like those guys. It looks like they even check
to see if he's like done and he's just gonna come back again, Like
what's the point of that? Oh my god, I feel like this is
something like me and my high school friends would have made for like a project
in high school. You know what I mean, you probably like a film
probably, but like a film film thing like I remember we did Lord of
the Flies and like this kind of felt like that. But yeah, I
mean that's that's pretty much it. I'm glad we watched it. I'm glad
we got it out of our out of our system, because there's curiosity,
man, there's curiosity there, and now we know that. It just it
didn't work as an adaptation for many of the reasons people talked about, mainly
like they made it Hollywood. They weren't respectful to the soul of the series,
to the soul of the characters. Right, But um, yeah,
I enjoyed. I enjoy just figuring out what it was about and being able
to talk to you Ray hear about it. Yeah, And I guess it
also speaks volumes to like how established this series is and how you know,
there's a whole world building that went on, and you really it's tough to
even capture that, Like say, they did a good job, it's so
tough to capture the whole world of dragon Ball within just like a in this
case, it's like an hour and twenty five minute movie. I think,
Yeah, that's why you can't. You can't like condense all those episodes into
one, right. They condensed like all of dragon Ball pretty much except Piccolo
Junior, to like one movie and and even added more complicated stuff like him
being in high school and stuff like that, and bullying, which you know
you don't you don't do that like you do something like Browley movie. You
know that it's his own standalone story where something happened that doesn't cover too much,
like you don't need to know like all this different stuff. You could
have just enjoy it. But yeah, we'll see, we'll see if they
do any more live action movies of dragon Balls, dragon Balls, dragon Ball
Z. I can't see Netflix not wanting to try if they get their hands
on it, because like they're doing an Avatar live action, the Last Airbender
live action, so again with all of these cool powers and animated stuff,
I don't know how to make it look good like Game of Thrones worked because
all they needed to do is like fire, right, But I don't know
if like the effects are to the point where they can make all these energy
blasts, airbending, earthbending look good and not cringey and like unrealistic. So
we'll see, we'll see what Netflix has, We'll see how cinema develops into
being able to catch these things. But for the foreseeable future, all this
stuff will be much better enjoyed through animation than through live action. Yeah,
I agree, it's I mean, we could critique them, but it's tough
to be able to. There are limitations. There were probably money limitations.
We have no idea how committed these guys were to actually being faithful, or
if they just got a job and they're like, all right, let's get
that money. Yeah right, Like you have no idea what's going on beyond
closed doors. I feel like they had to have read or gone through the
entire series. There's no way they would just be like, hey, we're
going to hire these people. They haven't read. I feel like they would
have had to. But then they're probably I don't know if it was being
rushed or I don't know if it was like maybe they presented an earlier version
and they're like, no, we have to fall this holy rood kind of
structure and yeah, just it didn't feel I walked. When the credits went
up, I'm like, wow, that was so cheap. Yeah cool.
Anyways, guys, that is it's all the whole journey, from the beginning
of Drying Ball to Dragon Ball Super. Not sure what we're gonna do from
here. Ray and I will talk about it. Take some time. Follow
us on social media's to know when we decide what we're doing next, and
until next time see a Space Cowboys bang