Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Oh hello,
how are you. I hope you're doing well today. I've mentioned in the
past my great love of the podcast Destiny, the one we do every Wednesday,
and this is the one that we are doing for this week, and
the reason being that there are subtleties, there is ancient wisdom, there are
techniques, and it all comes around back to you, the listener, as
tools in your arsenal to be the best that you can be body, mind
and spirit. And when I say that, I am trying to instill in
you to reach beyond your daily mindset, and that is watching TV, looking
at your phones, looking at the Internet, and kind of broaden and take
a step backwards and into the ancient past. And we do this quite often
with presentations on yoga, meditation, alternative levels of consciousness. And today we
have a similar program and that is astrology. Now, I've been a fan
of astrology from a very very young age. I've just been attracted to it,
and as a young person I went to astrologers and had readings done.
I think when I was about twenty five, I went to a sedarial or
a Hindu astrologer and had a Hindu reading done, which was quite different than
the typical kind of astrological chart that you would get from a basic astrologer or
one that doesn't follow the constellations. And it was impressed on me as a
young person when I was being tutored by a Mayan elder. And now that
the Chinese, the Sumerians, the Egyptians, the ancient Egyptians, and the
Maya venerated the system known as astrology. I've talked a great deal. We've
had people on the program speaking on Egyptian astrology, but not very many people
have spoken on Mayan astrology. And I got to tell you, I was
told by a number of elders that it was so critical in the Mayan society
that they actually would conceive, attempt to conceive children on specific time periods so
that the child would have attributes of higher learning, perhaps advanced consciousness. And
there's something in that understanding where the soul enters the physical body that if it's
attuned to the right frequency of the planets, to Earth's gravitational field, to
other unknown elements, that these ouldren would evolve and advance their society. I
don't think we have anything like that now, and especially in the United States
and Western culture, it's like it's a hidden miss kind of a situation that
doesn't sound very good. But of course we are missing a great deal of
information from the past. Remember, we are another epic. There was a
previous epic, and there's actually apparently up to five earlier epics where Earthlings developed
a society, a science, and a living style, a civilization that is
unknown to us except for whatever remains from those societies, buildings, pyramids,
a few scratches of documents, clay tablets, cuneiform tablets, and so on.
So we basically have had to re boot, and we do know what
from oral traditions that, like I said, the ancient Chinese, the ancient
Egyptians, ancient Maya and Sumerians and others really focused on living by the energies
and the influences are star systems on the planet Earth. Now, if you
don't know anything about astrology, it's not just the Earth that these planets have
influence over. It's your physical, mental, and spiritual body. And if
you haven't heard Susan Miller the interview she did with me late last year,
look for that interview Susan Miller's astrology zone, and she goes over the specifics
of the planets. We're not going to do that in this program. We're
going to go over a specific kind of astrology, and that is Maya astrology.
And so today's program is with an expert on Mayan astrology and specifically the
Zulcan calendar and how to work with and enhance your life path. Now,
a lot of people go through the stages of living and think that they have
no way to influence the outcome of various periods in their life and ultimately the
success or failures that they interact with or succumbed to. And this is not
true. We have a great deal of influence in our lives. And even
if you've started off and you had a tough childhood, or you were in
a situation where there was great poverty, psychological trauma, so forth, and
so on, you can pick yourself up and move beyond that by following your
ast astrological chart, by understanding what these planets are doing to you physically,
mentally, and spiritually, and how to move through your life to be the
best and the most successful that you possibly can. Now I'm one of these
people that's been looking to enhance his life since I was a very young person.
And it comes and goes, It comes and goes in waves. And
I'm a virgo, so my ruling planet is mercury. So when Mercury is
retrograde, meaning it reverses, I had to be careful about signing documents,
starting new projects, getting involved in meetings with new people that I don't know,
so forth, and so on. You can read about mercury retrograde affects
everyone differently. For years, I didn't pay attention to this phenomenon of retrograde,
retro grade planets, and my god, it causes havoc. It really
does. So again, it's in one of those things that not everyone cares
about. Some people in the religious order feel it's the work of the devil,
so forth, and so on. If you're dealing with that kind of
fundamentalism, you're probably not going to enjoy this program. It might scare you
a little bit. But Maya based their based their life, their planning,
seasons, warfare, childbirth, important meetings and assemblies. Literally every aspect of
their life was focused towards astrological dates, events and activities, and astrologers or
scientists astrologers were also astronomers, and the few books that we have left from
the Maya have very accurate detail of the planet Venus, the moon, Mars.
I think that's there's a couple of the Sun as well, and we
only have four books out of many thousands. They're called cotises because they're transcribed
from technical documents. We do know this now and what we have are the
remains these transcribed documents that are called cotises, which are writing on bark tree
bark, very rare, rudimentary, much much more known about the Maya and
details about them. So today's program is how to practice Mayan Astrology. There's
Zulcan Calendar and your Life Path and my guest is Bruce Schofield. I have
a great fascination with the Mayan culture. We know so little about them,
and one of the things that I've been fascinated in is there not only astronomy,
but some of the astrological programs that we have discovered from them. My
returning guest today is Bruce Scholfield. Bruce we had earlier in the year to
talk about another book. But if you don't know who Bruce is, he's
the author of seven books on astrology, including Day Signs, Native American Astrology
from Ancient Mexico and Signs of the Time, and Introduction to Mesoamerican Astrology.
He's been practicing astrology since ninety sixty nine, which is a long time.
Well I'm retired now, Well he's retired. But this is I wanted to
have Bruce back because he took the fundamentals of what we know about the Maya
and spun it into an interesting book that I wanted details on because the Maya
are unique people. They're brilliant in many ways, and their understanding of planetary
influences is much different than the Western astrology we're so used to caring about.
So hey, Bruce, welcome back to Destiny. Great to have you on
the program. Thanks for having me. All right, hey, why Maya
astrology? What was the draw to to actually meso American astrology. Let's look
at the whole picture. What was the draw to learn more about this?
Yeah, well, what I'm doing. Under my undergraduate work at Rutgers,
I took a course called the Nature of Non Western Civilizations I guess it was
in the early seventies or so, and one of the books we had to
read was The Daily Life of the Aztecs by Jacques Soustell, and it's people.
I found that people that grew up in Mexico wind up reading that at
some point in their history classes because it's so good. But I'm reading this
book in this course, and there's this whole chapter on as tech astrology.
I said, what I you know, I just had never run across it,
and that sort of you know, got me interested in it. And
I dug in further and further. And there were a few, very few
things written about it at that time. But I got into archaeo astronomy.
I went to Mexico, I met people there, and I began to realize
that there was a a Mesoamerican and that would include Mexico and Central America tradition
of astrology that was very different than the Western astrology and Western astrology. The
planetary positions are measured in terms of space distance from each other, where they
are in the zodiac, you know whether they're rising or setting, how many
degrees apart are planets. It's all very spatial. And what done I mean
was that Mesoamerican astrology wasn't that at all. It was all based on time
distances, you know, intervals of time. And what they did was measured
the cycles of the planets and then tried to fit them into some kind of
uh, you know, matrix, some kind of you know, a template
that would contain them all in various ways. And this involved a lot of
number work, and people have written extensively on Maya numbers. The texts had
numbers too. It wasn't quite as sophisticated as the Maya, but they they
all had counting systems. And so I wrote the one book. It's called
signs of Time, not signs of the Times. That's what most people they
look at that and they say signs of the times, but it's signs of
time, And so what what the what they did? We're doing m you
know, presumably the Maya were the earliest ones to do it. Maybe Almec.
And the difference between the Olmec and the Maya, I'm not sure what
that is. It seems to shift and change, but um certainly for the
last two thousand plus years, the people there were working with a system that
would that was focused on time periods of time, and each one of those
periods of time had a quality to it that was distinctly different from another one,
and there were boundaries and so you know, while in the West we
have a zodiac during the course of the year and the sun passes through well
signs of thirty degrees. I'm not talking about constellations. I'm talking about signs,
right. The Messo Americans had a twenty day sequence and each day had
its own sign and its own quality, and then that repeated. But there
was levels and levels, multiple levels. You had thirteen day segments. He
had twenty twenty day segments with the primary ones, you know, but you
go all the way up to you know, the whole the big May long
count calendar of five thousand years. I've had some plus years. So that
that got me going. And my question, my research question, is if
astrology as we know it, Western astrology works as well as it does,
which I will say it does because I spent my whole life studying it,
and I operate like a scientist, and I'm not fooling myself. I mean,
it's it's a real thing. What's what's going on? What happened in
Messo? It was It's an astrological tradition that originated in a very different place,
far away from the West and developed along its own path, and it
uses the planets, but it breaks it down a little differently, and I
needed to know more about it, and I dug into it and eventually eventually
put out a few books, one of which is I think that when you're
looking at how to practice I want to mention that how to Practice may the
book we're talking about today, how to Practice Mayan Astrology, the Zulkan Calendar
and Your Life Path, And I will mention that it came out published in
twenty seven, Yeah, two thousand and seven. I don't know if it's
been updated since then. Um, but you know you're you're you're obviously interested
in meso American astrology. H We're so in the dark with the Maya in
terms of quite really why they were interested in astronomy, why they developed an
astrological program. But it looks to me, and I'm interested in your point
of view on this, Bruce, it looks to me that they were a
very very social people and developed this astrology to know more individually about character development
and so forth and so on. This is what astrology is all about,
is character? Right? And no, No, astrology is much bigger than
that talk. A little bit about it. Yeah, Well, like in
the book that my most recent book, I argue that astrology is a subject
that maps out and plots the trajectories of self organizing systems, which include personality,
okay, include the body. But if you go back into the origins
of astrology in Mesopotamia or Mesoamerica, or even China and India, they're not
just looking at people. They're looking at whether you know, they're looking at
the ecology of the region, They're looking they're looking at the economy, the
prices. You go back, you know, almost four thousand years in Mesopotamia,
at least three thousand years, and they're looking at the planets and correlating
with the value of their currency. So they're really using it for overall society
trends and would you say, predictability with it getting absolutely, they're very interested
that. You know, the astrology works by observing correlations and based on those
correlations you make predictions. Sounds just like science, doesn't it it is.
The problem is is that it's it's very hard to reduce astrological factors into units
and numbers and you know, allow reductionism, you know, to control it.
It resists reductionism in someone. But but all systems do, like consciousness
resists reduction, right, And astrology is basically measuring something like the stock market.
What's the stock market? It's the sum of all the communications that today
are taking place electronically, you know, a few decades back was on the
telephone, and before that was on paper. But it's it's the sum of
all these connections that are happening. And out of all this chaos emerges some
kind of structure. And it turns out that that structure correlates with planetary positions
and the same thing in an individual. The personality comes out of behavior patterns
and reactions and experiences in life. And you know, somehow, out of
all that neurological activity, mental activity, a personality evol you know, emerges
emerging properties or what I'm talking about. So when you talk about astrology,
you just cannot limit it to the person. Yeah, but think what you
were getting at was important though, because while the Mesoamericans certainly and the Maya
paid a lot of tension to weather, agriculture was very important to them,
they did have a component that had to do with individual personality. And that's
the day signs that I was talking about before. Okay, So I want
you to tell us how much was already available to you of the astrology of
the Maya astrology and how much you have interpreted on your own. So,
in other words, I don't know of a codus or a paper that's been
found that says this is Maya astrology or Mesoamerican astrology and this is how we
used it. Yeah, okay, Well there's a couple of things here.
When I was beginning to put this together or trying to learn about it,
actually I very few people had anything to say about what the science meant.
But I did find realize quite early that there was an account it's called the
Codex Florentine that was written at the time of the Aztec conquest, and there
are the testimonies of some Aztec peoples were taken almost like an anthropologist. The
Friars were acting as anthropologists, and they were, you know, trying to
understand the pagan traditions so they would know more about how to wipe it out.
Basically, that was that their thought process, their goal. But there
was just there were descriptions of the signs, and that got me going because
these descriptions are terrible there there. You know, it's like somebody who has
no idea what's going on is telling somebody who has no idea what's going on
what the signs meant. And so I became determined to see if I could
fine tune this some way it makes some sense out of it. But the
answer your first question is, yeah, there's some stuff written down in the
Aztec tradition Maya not so much more more about the cartoons and the longer cycles
you see, and a few Maya things like Diego della Landau and uh.
Well, anyway, So what I did was I began I m I had
to first solve the problem of the calendar correlation. And there's a lot of
at the time in the I was doing this in the eighties. At the
time there was a lot of debate about exactly how the Western Gregorian calendar meshes
with what we know about in ancient Mexico. And so I had it refined,
you know, reduced to about a day a five day period. And
then what I did was I took charts of people, some of which were
celebrities and some of them which were my clients. Probably a total of about
four hundred and I set them aside, and I organized them and I made
you know, I made notes and I said, Okay, this person Einstein
was born on this day, and it's got to be one of these five
days day signs based on this calendar correlation. And I would jot that down
on the corner, and I started moving it around and adjusting it, and
I came up with one date that fixed, one calendar correlation date that that
worked, and it seemed to describe everybody fairly well. And it turns out
to be the Goodman Martinez Thompson correlation, which is now almost universally accepted.
So I, in other words, I rectified the calendar correlation using astrology,
which sounds really weird, but that's what I did. You know. My
thought real quickly, Bruce's that did you develop a software application for this so
that you didn't have to crunch numbers every time you were doing that? Yeah?
After the case, okay, so how much later would you did you
develop an application? Well? I didn't develop it so much. My friend
Barry or wrote a very simple program it was probably on Basic at the time,
so that I could crank out more dates. And later Astrolat published a
complete software package called Maya Life Path Astrology. Oh my god, so somebody
actually did create it's still selling. Yeah, it still sells. It's been
out for a while, and it uses my delineations. You see what happened
is ad after I went through this exercise, I wrote these delineations. I
remember the period. It was like March and April of nineteen eighty nine,
and I had just moved and it was raining every day for about a month
in this new place that I was living, and I didn't have any contacts,
and I just threw myself into this and wrote all these delineations based on
these correlations, and you know, like it was ninety percent done at that
point. It was almost as if it was just coming through me, like
I was channeling this stuff. But um, so I got the delineations and
that's what I've worked with, and they're they're published basically the original ones in
the book Day Signs, and then there's in how to How to Practice My
Astrology has them as well, but not so quite so detailed. Okay,
so you've got you've created the fundamentals. You extrapolated from the data that was
available on meso American cultures. Yeah, and um, tell me how you
incorporate the Zulkan calendar, which is two hundred and sixty days. Is that
a sub set that you incorporate into a software that gives us even a greater
detail perspective of Okay, so'll talk about that. Well, the way it
works is you have the twenty day signs. Twenty day signs, yeah,
and then there are thirteen primary numbers. So if you start with the first
day sign and you start with number one, and you move along second day
sign number two, you get the thirteen. But because there's twenty day signs,
the fourteenth day sign becomes number one. Yeah. And so this it's
like two gears, one gear with thirteen teeth and one with twenty And that's
how they interpret it when you see it graphically. Yeah, by the time
it's done, it's two hundred and sixty days. Right now. It turns
out that two hundred and sixty days is kind of a magic number astrologically or
astronomically as well, because it contains you know, real astronomical data like,
for example, the sonotics cycle of Mars is double it this sonotics cycle of
mercury fits into it. Venus, It's like the Venus appears this morning star
or evening star for about two hundred and sixty days, and there are other
correlations as well. And when you you know, you know, multiples of
two sixty fit into planetary cycles. So it's kind of a master calculator in
a way. Let me stop you real quickly, Bruce, And because I
want to get this point across and I want your interpretation here. When do
we look at the Zulcan calendar, It's like it was made thousands and thousands
and thousands of years ago, prior to the three sixty five day calendar,
which is what we use universally right now. And it seems to be something
that was used to observe other planets with a great deal of accuracy. But
what is your personal feeling on why this calendar was developed, h and its
uniqueness? Um? Well, if yes, the people themselves will say it
two hundred and sixty days measures measures human gestation period. You mean from inception
birth. Yea, yeah, that's what they'll tell you. Um. There's
been other speculation on it. One is that at the latitude of Copon,
the Sun spend spends two hundred and sixty days of the year south of the
zenith, you know, and and the rest one hundred and five days north
of Zenus. So there's like, you know, right in the middle of
the Maya Lands, there's this kind of distinction between the sun and one part
of the sky and the others. Really interesting. You know. I think
it probably started with Venus. This is my guess, is that Venus is
so obvious. It's such a after the Sun and moon, you can't miss
it. And it spends time as a morning star and then it disappears,
and then it spends time as an evening star, then it disappears. The
disappearances are different, but it's roughly two hundred and sixty days for the morning
and evening star appearance, and so they might may have started counting with that,
and then they found out that that correlated. If you've multiplied that a
few times twice, it would correlate with this snotic cycle of Mars, and
Mars fit in and it became like a universal universal measuring stick in a way.
The astronomers were using it for calculation purposes, but there really wasn't much
of a distinction between the astronomers and the astrologers, which was the case in
the West as well, so they were both working at the same time.
There was this interest in calculating planetary positions and using like a module, like
a modulus is what it's called in math. I guess you know, in
this case to sixty, but a modulus and working with degrees in time would
be sixty sixty minutes, sixty six seconds and so on. Right, So,
so it makes sense if you're a mathematician to work with something like this.
But meanwhile they were also noticing what was going on around and they're watching
the agriculture, the climate, the social activities, the warfare, and it
was it was baked into their civilization. You read, um Jay, Eric
S. Thompson, the great Mayanist you know, writes this book Maya Hieroglyphics,
and somewhere in there he says, you know that I hate to admit
this, but it looks like Maya astronomy served to support Maya astrology. You
know, that is really what they were interested in. Yeah, so they
went through all this trouble to do the athematics in order to be able to
make these predictions, and they got to the point where they were scheduling events
within warfare but as an astrologer. Doesn't that tell you something about the society
that developed it that this is not just a game like it is today,
like a Western Not you personally, but most people look at astrology and go,
okay, am I gonna be a gonna be a good day or a
bad day, and that's all I care about. Whereas this is a whole
society that is developing a highly highly mathematical program or more than just individual prediction.
As you said earlier in the program, this is a real tool for
them. Oh yeah, yeah, it was. It was an integral part
of the society. That was also pretty much the case with Mesopotamia. But
by the time astrology got to the Greeks, the Greeks shifted it around a
little bit and it took different kinds of forms. I kind of see Mayo
or Mesoamerican astrology as basically at a point that would correlate with Mesopotamian astrology maybe
three thousand years ago. And interestingly, I teach a course on online course
on astronomy, and I have an archaeo astronomy section. I also teach an
online course on Mesoamerican astrology Kepler College, right, but one of my assignments
is for the students to write, you know, to respond to some questions
that ask what are the similarities and what are the differences between astrologies that developed
in Mesopotamia versus Mesoamerica. And one of the first things that comes out of
that question when they do their homework is that Venus. They both were very
early on mapping at Venus, and they were mapping it at in a very
similar way. That's very strange. Yeah, and having delineations for them different
delineations from morning star and evening Star. We're going to go through some of
the practices and do some case studies shortly, but um, how how do
we view Mayan or Mesoamerica astrology compared to Western and Hindu astrology? And my
question specifically for you is the Maya don't seem to cover a lot of the
planets that were discovered later through astronomy with with using technology like goodstrumentation, Yeah,
instrumentation exactly. So I mean, if we have a limited number of
planets in Maya astrology, how does that affect its ability to be accurate?
Well, I don't think depends on the culture. I mean, one of
the great astrologers of the modern era was a guy named Dane Roodyard who was
just brilliant, a top intellectual in many respects, and he pointed out that
when you have a relatively simple society that's located in one small region, you're
not having a lot of outside information having hitting you, and so the visible
planets out to Saturn are probably all you need to work with. And of
course that's all they work with in Hindu astrology, and that's all that was
worked with in Hellenistic astrology. It was it's just been since seventeen eighty one
when Ernest was discovered, you know that we've gotten these extra planets, But
look what was happening socially in seventeen eighty one was the year that the Industrial
Revolution took off and suddenly people didn't have to work on farms all the time.
Yeah, fairly recent, fairly recent, and so it's you know,
the developments have been you know, unprecedented in the West few hundred years,
and that's when we discover these new planets. But as an astrologer, give
us your feeling on the Western and Hindu and Mesoamerican. Obviously they're different,
but they may be similar in certain ways. Uh, without the without the
uranus, and some other plants that have been recently. I think Pluto's another
one. Pluto. You're in a sniptune Pluto. Yeah, what what's what's
How far off are they with with the accuracy. Well, you know,
it's just some people would say they're not far off at all with accuracy.
Now in Western astrology, say in this country here, there's been in the
last couple decades a great revive, a great interest in Hellenistic astrology. And
something was known of it earlier. I got very interested in it in the
seventies nineteen seventies, but there wasn't quite as much translated. But in the
eighties and especially in the nineties, a lot more was translated, and so
you get these There are a number of people that just specialize it is and
they do horoscope readings with only that to Saturn. They don't put in the
modern plants interesting, and they use all these techniques, these complicated techniques that
were used in Hellenistic times, some of which were lost until they were translated
again, or at least lost to Western astrologers. You know, it's kind
of a fundamentalist thing in a way. But people like it, and you
know, I've worked with it myself and you can pull out a lot of
information. I tend to be more of a psychological astrologer. I'm interested in
informing choice rather than making prediction informed choices. In other words, you give
them an idea, yeah, and then they make the decision to either take
it or not. Yeah. I give them the framework of time that they're
in and where the current seems to be going, and you know, I
would discuss options and where they might go with it. I don't really like
to. I didn't like to make predictions. I made them, and I
you know, clients will call me up and say, oh, you predicted
this. I don't even remember that I did or not. But that's what
people want. They'll grab that from you. People don't they you know,
they don't want to make choices. It's it's tough making choice. It's interesting,
Bruce. I consider you a maanist and you've written these Mesoamerican books and
h and it's not just a casual one or two. You've really drilled down
and made it almost a life study. What is intriguing to you about the
meso American lifestyle and their astrological format? Yeah, well, you know,
I'm still very interested in the twenty day sign cycle. In Aztec times and
quite possibly among the Maya or the Zappattack or some other regional cultures, people
were named, you know, or at least co named for the sign they
were born under, you know, like so for example, I was born
under the day signed monkey, but I was born also under the thirteen day
period deer, right, And that that's an Aztec and Maya. You know,
there's and and there's this Abotec version as well. There's there's a key
Chap version. But they're all basically the same. It's just like, you
know, you have the the Greek gods and the Roman gods. They're parallels
right there there. You know, you have Zeus and Jupiter. They all
stem it stems from the same root aryan root word anyway, right, so
there's this this overlap between them. But the what what's really intriguing to me
is, Okay, it's an interesting concept. You've got twenty day signs and
they seem to be very different. And I continue my observations, you know,
part time, but I continue to observe how people behave and I see
these patterns. What is going on. Is this some kind of of a
circadian cycle. I mean, the circadian cycle exists in people. Everybody knows
that. But is there some kind of counting mechanism that goes on and some
some kind of twenty day cycle that actually has modifies or you know, turns
some internal dials and you know in the DNA or wherever that actually bring out
different qualities in different people. I once did a study. I took charts
of entrepreneurs. I got a database of like two hundred or three hundred entrepreneurs,
and I ran them against the day signs, and I found out that
only a four they all fell into for the most part, four or five
different day signs which were all there are high powered ones, you know.
So yeah, you know, you'll you'll see that with with you know,
people that are at the front of things. You know, they're born under
these very strong dynamic signs, signs like crocodile or or water or read you
know. I mean the name in names differ in Maya and Aztec, na
Wada language and so on, but they're all the same. And I tend
to use the English translations of them. But these are are very strong leadership
signs. And they showed up in all the entrepreneurs charts. Now I want
to do that study again properly and have a bigger database, but I haven't
gotten to it. So I think something's going on there, but I don't
know what it is. We've gotta take a short commercial break and we will
return with my guests Bruce Scofield on his new book Mayan Astrology. We'll be
right back. My guest today is Bruce Scofield. He is a longtime astrologer,
has studied ancient cultures, most notably the Maya. His book that we
are talking about today is called How to Practice I in Astrology, The Zulcan
Calendar and your Life Path. So there's an insight that they are bringing to
the table that is of interest to you over the other disciplines. Is that
what you're suggesting, Well, yeah, that's that's the fundamental part of their
astrology. But there are other things as well. They're these long calendar counts.
There's the cycle of the cartoons. Cartoons they're roughly twenty year periods and
they tend to mimic the Jupiter Saturn conjunctions, and if you take two hundred
and sixty of them, you get the long count. Wow, that's the
five thousand, one hund twenty five years. And that's what is the basis
of the Myan calendar. When people say, mind calendar two thousand and twelve,
that's what they're getting at. That's what they're referring to. And so
that calendar has two hundred and sixty of these cartoons which are based on the
Jupiter Saturn cycle. So that's another level. That's a macro level of Mesoamerican
astrology. I'm interested in that too. How does that work? We have
a situation where there's a natural rhythm going on in the world and it's not
consistent. It's roughly twenty years. But what the Mesoamericans were doing, probably
the Maya started this, was they were conceptualizing that period in terms of pure
number. It's almost like Plato. It's like there's an archetype, there's a
pure archetype, and they're saying, Okay, nature is giving us the signal,
and we're but the signal really is more pure than it is. Nature
is a little sloppy at the edges, right, but we can see the
pure form. And so we're going to build our calendar on the pure form.
That's that's platinistic. You know, we're a union. You know,
we have these archetypes that are behind you know, what we're experiencing as nature.
So that's another part of their astrology that fascinates me because they interpreted their
history according to that, and they made forecasts pretty interesting. You write in
your book, is the Mayan astrology way better than the Western way? Anyone
paying attention to the world these days may conclude that we are racing at high
speed towards a wall, whether it be twenty twelve or twenty thirty six or
any other date in the next fifty years for that matter, we are going
to pay a price for how we've been choosing to live. What do you
mean by that? Well, you know that you know, human species is,
you know, it's like it's overrun the planet. You know, the
population is, you know, exceeding the carrying capacity of the Earth. If
everybody wants to live a middle class of life. Hey, what did I
hear the other day? The killer whales are getting mad about this, right,
they're sinking boats. Yeah, yeah, I think we've really uh,
we're going off the cliff. You know, it's it's um the obsession with
a little soap political soap opera is such a waste of time when there are
many more important things going on. UM. Climate change just by itself is
a challenge that needs to be met yesterday and um. And you know,
when the twenty and twelve event was coming up and people were asking me what
I thought about it, I said, well, you know, I feel
like, Okay, here's the argument. The astronomical argument is that the winter
solstice point is crossing through the dark band of the Milky Way. You probably
know something about that, right the road to Shivaldo there a little bit.
Milky Way is like a band. It's not a it's not a straight line,
right, yeah, But there is in the middle of the band is
what's called the galactic equator. But with the mile was that there was a
dark band, like a channel in there in the Milky Way, and that
was considered sacred for a number of reasons. And as precession moves, the
winner celsist points slowly through that point. It gets to the middle around two
thousand and twelve, but it's there for thirty or forty years. It's not
a single date. So I'm not saying that this is a causal that it
causes anything. Maybe it does, but you know it doesn't have to.
I'm just observing a correlation, and I'm saying that there. It seems to
be a lot of attention given to two thousand and twelve. The maya Long
Account does end did end that that section of it on December twenty first,
two and twelve. But then the next section began, right. But it
was a boundary line across a crossing point, a turning point. And you
look around you and you say, what is going on? This is you
know, civilization is really, you know, having some difficulties. Some people
are leading and some people are trying to catch up, and it's just chaotic.
And we've screwed up the environment. I mean, climate change is one
thing, but you know, the pollution and the extinction going on. Yeah,
I think we're we're you know, we've hit a wall already and people
don't want to believe it. Humans are in denial. You know, we're
a special creation. We've been told for two thousand years by Western or more
by Western religion, that we're a special case. We're not like other animals.
Even today, people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the fact
that we're just a hairless ape and actually we're not that hairless. We have
more single hairs than a chimp does there are they're just real small. Do
you? Would you say that the Hindu Yugas are in play here? And
when I say the Yugas, they developed cycles of time where a civilization starts,
reaches an apex, and either destroys itself or is destroyed, only to
begin again. Yeah, yeah, we're in the Cali Yuga. If you
look at the sriyuk Swar model, yeah, his count starts within a few
years when the Maya long count did. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah,
it's three thousand BC, three thousand. I forgot what the number is,
but it's just a few years off. It's pretty amazing, pretty amazing.
All right, let's talk a little bit about the premise of the book,
which is working with it. So how do we start, Uh, we
don't have time to get into all the details, but how do we begin
creating a name a Mayan astrological chart? Well? I have two things in
there, to two themes, and one is that I get people to look
up their day sign look at you know, which is I have tables in
the back had a lot of tables. It's half the book. Yeah,
you could. This is my friend Barry or did that. He did programming
too. That so you can look up your day sign and well, let's
let's do one. Um okay, you knew what I was just looking at
Ron de Santis his birthday was. That would be wonderful. Yeah, I'm
trying to think what I had here. I can I can find it on
my uh let's see on my computer. I was just looking at it.
Ron de Santis September fourteenth, nineteen seventy eight. Okay, so let's go
back to that September fourteenth, nineteen seventy eight. So you look in the
book, go to nineteen seventy eight. Okay, September fourteenth. Okay,
so it says here six K Ball and uh one ET's nab that's one Ball's
house. So let's so that tells you that he was born on the day
signed Acball. And then I have delineations for it in here, and then
you can look up the delineations. Let me see you find out you have
a description of who that what that personality type is. Yeah, we're going
to get into it here. Just do that that sounds great, So here
we go. Delineations of the of the signs come first. Now, acball
is it's a sign of the west. So the signs, the twenty day
signs, you're divided into five groups. And well, actually, what if
the number four cycles through? So you have East, Northwest, and south
in that order. And if you look at all the old Mayan, ancient
Mayan cosmograms and Aztec ones as well, they'll they'll be arranged that way,
with the East at the top, the North at the left, and so
on. And West signs are tend to be other oriented. And this sign
itself, the meaning of it is darkness or night, and it's um it's
associated with the I say here the earth gods and the drum and the glyph
may signal signify an animal of the underworld, possibly the jaguire. And one
of the things about I've noticed about this sign is that in people is that
they they're quite powerful and they usually use some kind of system here, Like
what I say is that there these are people that project an imposing or attractive
presence in the world around them. Their personal power may be exerted in subtle
ways. Um, they are logical organized capable of deep foot, but they
tend to be conservative in many matters. Patients and hard work come easy to
them. UM security, both mental and physical. It's a major issue UM
the physical security that a home, house, building, or other structure may
be a focus in life. Now. I know people born into the sign
and they they one you know, one person has been living in his family's
ancestral house for generations and it's it's it's a historic house. I know other
people that buy property and are very very uh you know, concerned with that.
But it says it also could be that other matters concern them, and
this is key. Other systems of knowledge often interest them and ABUL subjects these
aid these aucbal types in organizing their practice what matters. So you can you
can usually find an OCA houses. The translation one translation of that they usually
have like a system that's driving them that they use in their mind. And
that could be something like I mentioned here, like magic or astrology, or
you know, some kind of code. So I would assume that Rond de
Santis is driven by some kind of code that's probably more like fundamentalist Christianity.
That's what I'm thinking, because I don't see him in the esoteric arts whatsoever.
No, but it's the same principle, same but the mind, I
hear what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, So so drilled down a little
more with him and his birthdate. What else does the does the initiative initiative
of your work look for. Well, the next thing you do see,
you know this, the fact that they were born under act Bolsy sgnificant.
But then there's the thirteen day period and he was born under I forgot what
it was. Remember what I said there once in nineties? Okay, so
that was oh knife, that's now yeah, okay, So the thirteen day
period when it's nab or knife, it says beneath the surface personality which we
were just talking about is a person who seeks powerful and transformative experiences, willing
to go the distance to stimulate changes themselves and others tend to be restless,
persistent, devoted to their life callings. At times it will take risks societal
demonstrations of competence that it was. Okay, that's that's a general thing.
So what you get out of this combination, I mean I have extensive delineations
written on bothies in this book and in day Science, in particular. This
is not you know, like a a calm, normal personality. This is
somebody who's really deep, really conservative, really focused on some kind of method
of thinking, some kind of program that interprets the world for him. And
and he's willing to go this one knife, willing to go the distance.
You know, knife was used for sacrifices, and there's a there's an element
of that to it as well. When you get this one, you know,
knife factor and somebody's starting, they'll put themselves out on the line.
I mean, you know, I don't know that he's going to sacrifice himself
in the old Aztec traditional way, but he may sacrifice a lot of his
life in order to reach his goal. This is weird, though, Bruce,
because he just entered the presidential race yesterday. Yeah, and a lot
of people feel that he's martyring himself with this fight against not only Disney,
but there's a tremendous amount of new evidence that has come up that he's not.
He's fighting with a lot of big corporations that are in Florida and and
it's not going to play out. Well, So what what what's the predictive
model for this personality type? Well, you know, I mean, how
will he go to distance? I took a look, you know, that's
why I popped into my head. I took a look at the chart for
the yesterday for roughly the time that he announced, and exactly it did not
look too good. I just put it aside. It was just one of
the things I was doing this morning as I was going through my email.
I put it aside, saved the file. But off top of my head,
it looked a little chaotic, and I understand that the presentation of it.
The actual uh you know, he had a meeting with Elon Musk or
something and it was at six pm and that's when it was supposed to happen.
But there were some technical failures. Well there's a soft launch on Twitter
that was an utter failure. The system didn't present his material correctly and it
was delayed, and it was it was really a poor presentation for him,
and many people felt that that was not a good sign for a individual who
was running for the president of the United States. Yeah, there's a couple
of There was what was called a simultaneously saturn was setting when I think mercury
was it was a mercury at the mid heaven. But there was like an
alignment going on, and there was also the moon was with Mars that just
looked rough and disruptive, and the technical side would be indicated there that the
commune ducation didn't quite come through. Yea, yeah, So so here's here's
we're in the fourteenth So six the other people born on that day, Um,
Paul Gogan, the artist, Um, oh really yeah, Larry Hagman,
Morgan Freeman, Alice Cooper, Billy Preston, Bruce Willis, Drew Barrymore.
I had collected these celebrities and put him in the book that we're all
born on that combination. Now, I don't need to know a lot about
all these people, um, but maybe um, I don't think any of
these people are really pushovers. Yeah, I mean, uh, and DeSantis
is a very firm and strong personality. Um, but I feel and I'm
interested in your take. Let's talk about this guy. He seems like a
very young soul, somebody who isn't very worldly, He's very stuck in his
own state, doesn't see the United States as a collective of types. He's
forcing It feels to me like he's forcing his will on others. Yeah.
Well, that that I would agree with. I think that what happens with
that particular sign is that they get a code or you know, some sort
of a system, and they use that to organize their lives. I mean,
you know, some people build up knowledge of the world through experience,
and they synthesize those experiences and they come up with ways of managing what goes
on around them. But what seems to me to be the case, you
know, in my work here, is that this particular sign doesn't do that
so much. It starts with a system and then imposes the system on their
experience. So if you have you know, if if you're a you know,
somebody that studies alchemy, you know, or somebody that is a voice
scout, and you have all these you have a program of behavior and you
know a way of interpreting the world. That's what you do. You you
latch onto that and you interpret it that way. Yeah, and I think
a lot of people do that. Maybe it's done a little more excessively with
this particular sign. See, these are the kinds of things that I'm trying
to work out. I don't claim to have solved all the problems. I've
just raised the issue that. We'll wait a second. These people use this
twenty day count in the two hundred and sixty d Zelopian for all these years.
Were they fools? Uh? Did they? You know? Did it
not work? Um? I think it does, But but why it works
and exactly how it works is yet to be. You know, it's a
it's a job. That's the whole planetary influence that we don't understand because there's
subtle energy, subtle vibrations that pull and pull and release to or on biological
entities, which is what we are. Yeah, and we can't determine how
that's influencing us because we don't. And this is what the This is the
curiosity about these ancient cultures that are long gone and we don't understand their science.
They may have been able to determine planetary influences on a biological level and
its manifestation into life. Yeah, I don't know that they had what kind
of explanations they had for but I will say that early people's were probably really
good observers. I mean, you go into you know, the Amazon jungle,
and you meet these tribes you know that are you know, naked living
out there and have been living the same way for a long time. They
know everything about every plant. You know, they are incredible observers. So
this quality in human beings, you know, undoubtedly existed back then, and
so these people observe these correlations and built this uh you know edifice intellectual and
scientific edifice. Yeah, you know, around around the environment that they saw
that ranged from the planetary motions to the behavior of animals in the forest and
the weather over time and so on. Yeah, I think, but explaining
it, that's you know, I'm a modern person. I'm trying to link
it to as many things as possible. Correlations for the first step. Yeah,
Hey, as we conclude, and by the way, for you those
of you are listening, in the book we're talking about is how to practice
mind astrology, the Zulkan calendar and your life path. Let's do a case
study. If you would pull something out of the hat there perhaps a client
needed to know a life path that you helped him with or her with,
or there was a wellness situation. Why don't you give us a case study
where they were able to use the system that you've developed into getting some kind
of answer. Yeah, well, there's two things. There's there's two ways
for me to respond to that question. The first one I'm not going to
do. The second one I will. And the reason why the first one
is I developed my own model of meso American astrology. I quote the Mesoamerican
Chart and it is described in that book where you calculate the snotics cycles of
the planets, and at a given date, say a birth, you determine
at what phase how far through the snotics cycle each planet was. A snotic
cycle is the cycle of the planet and the sun. So you know,
one example would be the one that everybody knows is the moon. The cycle
of the moon and the sun is what we see as new moon first quarter,
full moon, third quarter. That's a sonotics cycle. Synods sin means
too, so there's a sonotic cycle of the Sun and Venus son and Mercury
son of Mars son and signs at right. So you figure this all out
and you get a chart. There's software that I mentioned before, Astrolabe,
my life path astrology that does that's complicated. But the second thing the way
and I would use those charts sometimes in my readings, but mostly what I
would do is I would look at somebody's Western chart, but I would also
calculate like I just did for rhn De Santis would look up their day sign
and their thirteen day sign, and I would write that on the side.
And I would also check where their venus was in the venus cycle, and
I would begin to integrate that information into my reading. Now, for example,
just looking at venus, I didn't mention that before people are born with
venus either in conjunction with the sun, and that could be when the sun
is when Venus is retrograde, or when venus is not retrograde, or they're
going to be born at morning star or evening star. So that's four distinct
parts of the venus cycle. And these are both talked about in the Maya
codiceas and Aztec cod seas and so on. And I would make these distinctions.
People born with a morning star venus, but they are far more willing
to take social risks than people with venus in the evening star position. And
I would use this. I would this would pop up in my head,
and I would notice the angular difference between the Sun and Venus, and I
would know where in its cycle it was. And then I would look at
the day signs and I would i would look up, you know, say
I have a chart in front of me, and the day sign crocodile comes
up right away. I know that. Okay, you know this is this
person has kind of got a little bit of an aggressive, you know,
assertive streak, and you know they bite, and and yet they're they're very
protective, you know, they're they're um, they're on guard all the time.
They're strong characters, and you know, you see them in very powerful
positions. You know. So for example, if I look up in my
list over here in the day Signs book of people born under crocodile um,
you get people like um, oh, Joe Biden, Um, Alan Watts,
Um, Howard Hughes, Frank Sinatra, Tom Hanks, mout Sate Tongue,
um Orson Wells, Thomas Edison, Walt Disney. You know, very
very strong characters that basically build their own world around them and they managed that
world. And they're tough. They're all of them murder are very tough.
And uh, you know, Biden's an old guy, but you could tell
that he's pretty tough. He probably just doesn't shot that much. Yeah,
he's a son in scorpio in western astrology. Yeah, but he's born under
crocodile in Mayan astrology emish um. So I would take that information and I
would I would bring it in, but it would also allow it would direct
me to the parts of their chart. Their astrological chart that I see are
almost always emphasized with people born under that day sign. So I was doing
a synthesis, a kind of um hybrid interpretation of the chart. That's that's
how I handled it. There were some people that, uh, you know,
wanted the purest an astrology chart, and I would do that now and
then, but I'm retired now, I don't do it at all. Uh.
I got a lot of little projects going on and don't interestand in this
one. Trying to pick up information when I can, but not as much
as I was doing you a few decades ago, right up to twenty and
twelve. Wow. So those of you listening the book How to Practice Mine
Astrology, very easy to read. He's supports the material with all kinds of
charts in the back. Tell us about your website and how people can learn
more about your work. Okay, I have a website with my friend Barry
work. It's one read O N E R E E D now one read
is the code word. Well in English it is for kets a quaddle,
right, you know, you know in Aztec language. Now I want to
let's say a cottom. So it's one read dot com and we have some
articles that I've written on it, and we have a calculator that allows you
to do pick up your day sign and your thirteen day sign. You can
you can learn something about it there. Okay, books are for sale.
The How to Practice Mind Astrologies technically out of print, but there are some
copies available, um and if you can't get it through Intertraditions, you know,
to go to one Reade. I actually saw it on the inter Traditions
website. They're still keeping it, and I think I also saw it on
Amazon, but I don't remember what the price was. The longer it's been
out of print, the more challenging it is to get so, but Intertraditions
carries it taco real quickly. H Bruce on how to access the software?
Is that something that anyone can go and purchase or how do they go about
doing that? Well, you can. You can go on our website when
read and you can see we have some software up there that allows you to
do a few little things. Okay, some of the calculations. But the
the Maya Life Path astrology program is published by Astrolabe, which is a software
company for astrologers, and their website is a labe a labe dot com and
uh, you know, they have samples there and you can talk to them.
But that does a lot. And you know, for people that are
interested in you know, they want to get into the guts of it,
you can. You can change the calendar correlation around. You could print out
an ephemerius, you could get a delineation and so on. Excellent. So,
uh, you say you're retired, Now what are you doing with yourself?
You can't be sitting there your your minds. I can see your mind
working constantly. What are you doing? Are you writing a new book?
Are you casting the charts of private citizens? Well, I'm trying to I'm
I'm trying to finish up unfinished objects. And right now I'm finishing recording an
album of music that I songs that didn't get released in the sixties and early
seventies. I put out an album back then and it's very rare and it's
selling for a few hundred dollars. So I thought the songs that weren't included
on it, I would record. I would record them, a lot of
them for the first time, and then have like bonus tracks. I didn't
know you were in a position. Fascinating, fantastic. Hey, Bruce Scholfield,
thank you very much. Pleasure speaking with you as always, and I
appreciate your time. Thank you club my pleasure. As I was listening to
that interview, I was wondering what we've missed out in not getting and having
prophecy from these earlier civilizations. We're left on our own to decide to how
to treat the environment, how to go about living, how to treat other
earth humans, our family, our friends, are citizens. And I'm a
little concerned right now. I just got news that in the Middle East we've
had probably the hottest weather in recorded history one hundred and twenty degrees fahrenheit.
I think that's forty eight or forty nine degrees celsius. And why that's important
to know that is at the high end of the heat spectrum, and around
that point it's so devastating to the human body that it causes brain damage,
burns not only burns the skin, it burns the organs, the ultra violet
rays pierce the skin and began cooking the organs. You cannot be outside in
that temperature. And this is almost like some kind of a movie that we're
dealing with, where the temperatures, the environment is so toxic that we can't
we can't survive. And when I read that, I gotta shiver up my
spine because I was thinking, is this what we're looking forward to where we
are not allowed to go outside because it's it's so hot, it's so toxic
to us, and we can look forward to and if so, we have
major problems. If we had known about similar issues with the Maya, with
the Chinese, with the Egyptians, with some of these earlier civilizations, to
watch out, to watch your environment, you know, maybe we would heed
this information more readily. Now on that vein, it's funny that we hear
from this is necessarily necessarily a joke, but one of the main messages from
people who meet aliens, either in abductions or face to face or are brought
on board their craft, is the fact that we need to be more aware
of our planet, how we interact with it, how we polluted, and
how we are trying to how we should be caring for gaia here in California,
And I don't know if this is going to work out or not.
The Governor Newsom has set up a program by twenty thirty what are we twenty
twenty three, twenty thirty three, ten years from now, all vehicles on
the road have to be electric or at least hybrid. How he's going to
pull that off, I don't know. But it's very very, very ambitious,
and I think it's it's it's great, but how do you know,
how do you do this? Cars? Right now, these evs or these
hybrids are so expensive the average person can't afford them, you know. So,
but this is this is something that we need to look at radically changing
how we affect the environment. And if it means that we've got to take
off all fossil fuel vehicles off the road, at some point, we may
have to. As we begin to detect our atmosphere on greater with greater detail,
and we begin to see that carbon monoxide is causing great, great damage,
we had to do something radically. We had to alter our lifestyles radically,
and so this may be you know, California typically is the future of
the United States. Many of the policies and programs and ideas are nurtured in
California and then are passed through other parts of the country. Some of you
listening may say, well, that's you know, I don't know you're talking
about. That's not true. Well, if you look at statistics over the
last twenty or thirty years, this is kind of the way it happens,
kind of the way it goes, and so we need to pay attention.
You need to pay attention. And what Bruce was saying about some of the
environmental problems we are faced with, they're just getting worse. They're not getting
better, They're getting worse. And at some point, you know, where
do we work, where do we put our foot down? Not educated about
this, They consider it a nuisance to be environmentally aware of their impact.
And that's not just pollution, that's that's I mean, that's just not you
know, fossil fuel pollution. It's also littering and throwing things out your window
and dumping in rivers and dumping on ocean beaches. People are just not educated.
They're just it's almost like a lot of people are in survival mode.
They're going through the motions of living and not caring for the planet that they
live on, the Gaia our planet. So this is really really critical and
I'm gonna be talking more about this. We're gonna have a couple of environmental
scientists to talk about the heat wave that we're dealing with because this year we're
seeing numbers that are off the charts, off the charts, and not only
does this make us uncomfortable physically, it also is a great problem for our
food growth. Our crops are damaged by this heat. Animal life cannot survive
this heat. And you know, if you're not comfortable, you're not productive,
So productivity starts to have a problem. So these are really critical issues
that we want to talk about. And so I'm going to have a couple
of different ecologists or perhaps environmental scientists talk about how we can go about becoming
more aware and improving our lifestyle so it doesn't impact our planet. So you
can look forward to hearing more on that topic. So it's good to have
Bruce on the program. Again. If you have no clue on what astrology
is, look for the Earth Ancients podcast with Susan Miller and the Astrology Zone.
And if you don't know who she is, get on your computer,
do a search for Susan Miller Astrology and every month she does a really nice
overview of each sign in the astrology chart and you get a sense of what
she's coming. She's very positive, but she also brings out issues problems that
we're having. So start with that and then listen to the podcast or go
on YouTube, or find another podcast or a program on on your TV and
learn about astrology because it's a really really good tool for your for yourself,
for your family, and in many ways it's a form of prophecy. So
take it as it is a tool, a tool for you to use.
Hey, we are going to Mexico. We do an annual Mexico tour.
We've been doing them for the last sevent eight years. It's the ancient Maya
of Tabasco and Chiapas. It's November tenth through the seventeenth. It's with doctor
Edwin Barnhardt and he's been trekking through these may insights for years and I'm really
looking forward to joining him and learning his perspective, his point of view on
places like Leventev, which is the heart of the Almec civilization, polank Bumpack,
and a number of other sites. We will be visiting from November tenth
through the seventeenth of this year. For more information, go to Earth Ancients
dot com, forward slash Tours t O U r S. Check it out
look at the itinerary. It's a short, like I said, seven day
tour, but we're packing a lot in there, and if you know me,
I'm into the ancient megaliths. These gigantic stones that were carved by the
people known as the Olmec will be there. Polanky by itself is worth the
price of admission because Polanki is really one of the gems of the Mayan culture.
Will be there for a couple of days. The first day we'll see
the general layout of the place. The pyramid of the inscriptions is where King
Pacall was buried, his queen, his wife, I think she's the Red
Queen. She's there. The second day, Ed's going to take us on
a unique private tour of some of the temples and excavation sites that have not
been exposed to the public. So we're taking a private tour of temples,
pyramids and buildings that no one gets to see. That is going to be
a blast, and I'm really looking forward to hanging with Ed and whoever can
join us. We're almost full. You'd like to know more about it,
go to Earth Ancients dot com, Forward slash Tours, click on the Maya
banner. The whole itinerary's there. Hey, if you have any questions,
send me an email Earth Ancients for you. Then the letter the number four
the letter you at gmail dot com and go, Hey, Cliff, I
want more information. Tell me about this. Why should I go? Hey?
You should go? Because this is an eye opener. It really brings
everything together. It really is a harmonizing tour and it's really a great place
to see the ancient past, see how they were living and the beauty of
these places that they were calling home. Birth Ancients dot com, Forward slash
Tours. All right, that's it for this week. I want to thank
my guest today, Bruce Schofield. If you want his book, you can
get it on Amazon, How to Practice Mayan Astrology, The Zulkan Calendar and
Your Life Path. That was a good one, all right. As always
the team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster, and Chris Hazel, You guys
rock, thank you for your help. Thank you, thank you, Thank
you all right, take care of you, will and we will talk to
you next time.