WEBVTT 1 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:26.839 Welcome back to Rais by Giants Discussion. We are live. Welcome everyone in 2 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.039 the chat. Good to see you guys and any moderators or channel members out 3 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:34.880 there. Today. We have a never before done combo here this evening with 4 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:39.159 Wayne Stager and Ryan Gable here with us today and Mando. I love doing 5 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:42.960 things that's never been done before. But before I bring them on for what 6 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:46.520 I know is going to be an amazing conversation. A shout out to my 7 00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:52.560 buy Me a Coffee supporter. Someone had a contribution last week over there and 8 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:56.039 they wanted to remain anonymous, but thank you for your support to the show. 9 00:00:56.119 --> 00:01:00.880 Someone anyone that contributes to help support the show buying me a Coffee or 10 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:06.400 PayPal will get a shout out on the next live from the time that I 11 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:11.719 received the contribution. I appreciate. I appreciate each and every single one of 12 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:15.760 you guys that have contributed to the show, whether that means financially or being 13 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:19.200 in the chat, hitting the thumbs up button or leaving a comment, or 14 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.400 being a channel member. You might not think that those things matter, but 15 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:26.439 they do. Hitting the thumbs up button tells YouTube that you want to see 16 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:32.120 more of my content. Leaving the comment creates engagement, and the more engagement, 17 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.959 the more the channel gets pushed. So thank you everyone, not only 18 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.560 to the viewers, but for the likes and the comments and sharing of my 19 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:44.040 videos. It really does make a difference. And of course to those who 20 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:49.319 are writer arranger channel members, thank you very much. So with that down, 21 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:53.359 we have an amazing little panel here today with returning guests of the show 22 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.359 but have never before been together. And first up we have a philosopher, 23 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:04.799 researcher, educator, spiritual teacher and visionary on in esoteric studies, Wayne Steiger. 24 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.319 It's good to see you, my friend. How is it going. 25 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.599 Good to see you, my friend, writer. Good to be here, 26 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.039 and thank you for the invite. Yes, I'm very much looking forward to 27 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:19.719 the discussion here today. I'm a little under the weather, but we're gonna 28 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:23.639 make it through here. Next up is author and producer of the show The 29 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:29.560 Secret Teachings and my good friend Ryan Gable. Welcome back to the show, 30 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:31.680 my friend. How's it going. It's going good, Writer, thanks for 31 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:37.439 having me on the show. Yes, and so the other day, gentleman, 32 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:39.680 we're just going to jump right into it. I was pondering on this 33 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:47.479 concept and this idea of heaven, and to any analytical person you know, 34 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:53.680 would do I thought to myself, where did this concept of heaven come from? 35 00:02:53.800 --> 00:03:00.400 Because it's always heavily referenced in Christianity, and I'm pretty su sure that's 36 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:05.520 where everyone has heard of this concept of heaven from. But I knew that 37 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:12.159 the oldest religion in the world is Hinduism, which dates back over five thousand 38 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:20.479 years, and that Hindus believe in reincarnation and reincarnation based off of karma, 39 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:28.680 so it couldn't have come from Hinduism. So the question that I guess that 40 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:35.719 I opposed to both of you is did this concept of in afterlife or the 41 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:43.159 concept of heaven come from Christianity or is there an older religion or an older 42 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:51.199 teaching that dates back further than Christianity have this concept of in afterlife? And 43 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.919 Wayne, if you want to start, yeah, I think it's solely a 44 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:02.719 Christian theology. You know, prior to that, if you look at the 45 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:10.599 Egyptians, they had their belief of a afterlife and the underworld. But the 46 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:18.439 idea of heaven itself is a Christian concept because that's your reward or going to 47 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:24.040 heaven. Are you're going to have eternal peace and whatever that is. Although 48 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:28.000 I do find it interesting the Bible really doesn't talk a lot about heaven. 49 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.079 Paul wrote about it, but in the Old Testament, the Hebrews did not 50 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:40.959 believe in a heaven right. And it's interesting too because the Old Testament doesn't 51 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:46.560 really even reference a or a house. So if they didn't believe in heaven 52 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.399 or how then what exactly do they believe in? Ryan? What do you 53 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:57.279 well? I agree with Wayne. First of all, I think it's primarily 54 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:00.800 a Christian concept. But when I say it is a Christian concept, I 55 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:05.279 think the question is what is it? Because everybody has their own interpretation of 56 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:10.279 what heaven is, you know. And Waine's also right that you have the 57 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:14.839 concept of the underworld, and you find that in Egypt famously, but you 58 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.519 also find that in meso America, Zibalba, you find that in Japan. 59 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:21.920 I like to talk about the East because that's not very well known about in 60 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:27.160 the West. The land of Yomi in Japan was the land of the underworld, 61 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.000 and very I had very similar stories to the Egyptians and to the meso 62 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:34.000 Americans as well. So from meso America all the way to the Land of 63 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:40.399 the Rising Sun. You have this underworld concept, which I suppose you could, 64 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:43.879 depending on how you interpret it, interpret it as both a heaven or 65 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.759 a hell like state, because you went through the underworld in order to either 66 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:53.480 be reborn as a star or to transcend and maybe to be reborn again into 67 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:56.319 a physical body, which was a was a. I think that was an 68 00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:00.920 original tenet of Christianity, was reincarnation. So I agree with Wayne in those 69 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:03.360 ways, and just to expand a little bit, that's that's my thoughts. 70 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:06.959 But I do want to add one more thing that in the Hindu belief system, 71 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:12.439 there's a place or I guess a state of being called and I don't 72 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:17.399 speak Sanskrit, but it's something to the pronunciation of zivarga zivarga s v A 73 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:23.879 r g a, and that's like the seventh heaven or they called the Lopez, 74 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:28.199 which is like a plane or a state of being, which is also 75 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:32.040 similar in the in the Kabbala with Kether the crown, and it's also something 76 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:38.240 that you find with the seven classical planets, and you find that with the 77 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:44.839 seven what they call the seven Garments of Ishtar, and also the seven garments 78 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:49.800 of isanagi in Japan. So these are concepts that are universal, and those 79 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:56.040 I guess those are my opening thoughts on your question. Isn't there a trinity 80 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:01.680 of the Kabbala that has Kathar in A, the Cathar, Chokma and Bana. 81 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:06.279 Isn't that the trinity of the Kabbala? Oh? Yes, yes, 82 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:10.600 for a second, I thought you were saying something else. I believe off 83 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:13.120 the top of my head, I think, and that's the same with uh 84 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:18.319 Barahma. And yeah, yeah, so that's the Shiva. In Shiva the 85 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:23.399 destroyer, but the destroyer is also the allows for new things to be born 86 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.600 in birth, so it's like a cyclical necessary evil. But yeah, that's 87 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.480 in Hinduism, it's all over the world, it's in us, like you 88 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:34.279 know, birth, life and death, et cetera. Yeah, it's really 89 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:43.279 interesting in this this concept of heaven and hell in the Old Testament. Nowhere 90 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:48.199 in the Old Testament doesn't say that when you die you go to heaven or 91 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:55.839 hell. So if there wasn't a concept of heaven and how for the Old 92 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:01.800 Testament people, then that means that heaven and hell is a relatively new concept. 93 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.920 Would you agree with that? Wien. Yeah, it's kind of like 94 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.439 the do you have a soul or do you have a spirit? Do you 95 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:13.360 have a spirit and a soul? And when I think of heaven, of 96 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.600 course, in Bible School, you know, we were Paul wrote about it. 97 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:22.319 He said there were seven levels of heaven marrying much around the world, 98 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:28.399 Ryan, as you were pointing out. And the thing that I think about 99 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.080 heaven is, well, what is the purpose of heaven? I mean, 100 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:37.120 what does it? Sir? Hell is the concept that we had from Dante, 101 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.279 and the Church grabbed a hold of that because that was the perfect control 102 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:50.320 that they needed to keep basically the peasants in line. Yeah. Hodgemunch says 103 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.240 here that no hell mentioned in the Old Testament. Well, I mean it's 104 00:08:54.320 --> 00:09:01.720 kind of referred to what is that word? There's she all? Yeah, 105 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:07.840 it's like referred to as the pit. I believe so kind of yes, 106 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:13.000 depending on it was the twelfth gate in the city of Jerusalem was the pit 107 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:16.919 Guyana, and it's where they took all the refuge of the city and that's 108 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.080 where it was burnt, and it burned all the time. Do you know 109 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.120 what side of the city that was on was that west? I believe it 110 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:28.799 was the land of death where Ro's sunbat would crash each night. Mm hmm. 111 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:37.120 Yeah. I think every culture has that too. I think, I 112 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.279 mean from the Egyptians famously, they have the land in the West, but 113 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:43.600 I was even I think it's in Japan too. Japan has this legend about 114 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:48.200 a mystical island that in the Tibetan Book and the Dead as well. Oh 115 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:50.480 it is. I didn't know that. Yes, it's it's always in the 116 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:54.639 west, but that's because that's where the sun dies each night and becomes the 117 00:09:54.679 --> 00:10:00.679 black Sun, you know. I think that the question that you're asking writer 118 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:03.480 can be looked at from more of a psychological point of view, and based 119 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.320 on what Wayne is saying, I think we should expand on Dante's version of 120 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:13.399 Hell because Dante's version of Hell is quite contradictory to the Church's version of Hell. 121 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:18.000 Dante's depiction and you could look this up if you wanted to show an 122 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:22.559 image of it, look up ice Palace Hell. Dante. Dante described, 123 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:28.960 and I think it was thirty three or thirty four of his story, that 124 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:35.279 Hell is actually an ice palace and that the devil or this devilish character is 125 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:39.960 actually physically encased in ice. So I've always looked at Hell as being sort 126 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:43.519 of like and I wrote this in my Occult book. I've always looked at 127 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:48.000 Hell as being kind of a place where it's a state of mind, like 128 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:52.159 when you're betrayed or when you don't feel loved, you feel really cold, 129 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.120 you feel really alone, you feel really cold. But when you feel loved, 130 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:58.440 when you feel appreciated, you feel really warm, you can feel the 131 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:03.159 light. That's kind of how heaven would be described. And then likewise, 132 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:09.799 purgatory is the state between those two states of awareness where you're really uncertain whether 133 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.440 maybe you're in a situation where you haven't made up your mind about something. 134 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:18.799 You're kind of in a state between feeling warm and filling cold. That would 135 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.039 be another, I think interpretation of it. Yeah, they're the one in 136 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:28.679 the middle there that you had that was the ice palace of Hell. Yeah, 137 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:35.200 it's interesting that you bring up this, this purgatory idea, because from 138 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:43.360 my understanding, that is what the Old Testament people believed happened when you died. 139 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:50.720 They believed in purgatory with aud it Abraham's side or Abraham's bosom, which 140 00:11:52.440 --> 00:12:00.440 is referenced in Luke sixteen twenty two. I believe and God. Now, 141 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.279 I was going to say, if you look in what is it in the 142 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.919 Book of Samuel Saul King Saul when he called upon the Witch of Endoor, 143 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:13.000 and it's one of the few references in the Old Testament that we know that 144 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:18.919 there is this afterlife. It also shows that this witch had the ability to 145 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:24.799 communicate to the dead. And what the ancient prophet told Saul was that why 146 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:31.080 did you disturb me? And apparently it's a very grayish place. It's apparently 147 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.879 a place where the spirits or the soul's rest. So it's very interesting when 148 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.080 you take that concept and you try to play it into the heaven and hal 149 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:46.440 role, it doesn't jib. Yeah. In purgatory, the original word is 150 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:52.000 Latin pergatorious, and it means the translation in Latin is horrifying. So when 151 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:58.320 you apply the idea of purgatory to the Gates of Ishtar, or the Descent 152 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:03.919 of Enon, or the story of Isanagi going into the underworld to rescue his 153 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:09.480 wife is a nami in Japan. When he comes out of the underworld unclean, 154 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.240 he goes to a river and he strips off all of his garments and 155 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.559 purifies himself in the river, and when he does that, he then gives 156 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.600 birth to the Sun goddess am A Tanasu. So from the underworld or what 157 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:28.200 we might call hell, to the purifying of the river and losing the garments, 158 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.080 which is just like Ishtarananana to the birth of the Sun goddess. You 159 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.960 have this transition hell, purgatory heaven in a sense in that old Japanese story, 160 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.360 and that's essentially what purgatory is. It's the purifying of the soul. 161 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:48.039 I believe it was meister Eckhart, that German mystic, who said that if 162 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:50.960 we learn to we learned to understand that this is a paraphrase, we learn 163 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.320 to understand that angels and demons kind of play the same part. That demons 164 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:01.000 feed off of the negative things that we feel and the wightfull emotions like in 165 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:07.120 the Hall of Judgment in Egypt that would be consumed by the great beast. 166 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:11.000 So those demons actually feed off those things, and they're doing the work of 167 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.639 the angels, if you will, because in order to reunite or to as 168 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.399 sind if you will, that's a really bad word to use nowadays, but 169 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.320 to ascend through the spheres of consciousness. One has to be purified, which 170 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.320 is what purgatory is. It's the state between in a sense, between life 171 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.240 and eternal life in the spirit realm. Does that make sense? It does. 172 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:37.000 And I want to bring up this verse really quickly because I think that 173 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:43.879 it is very important, which is Luke sixteen twenty two. And here it 174 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:46.879 is. It says the poor man died and was carried by the angels to 175 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:54.240 Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried and in hades, 176 00:14:54.919 --> 00:15:00.200 being in torment, and lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and 177 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:07.159 Lazarus in his bosom. And this verse is very interesting because it's where the 178 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:13.000 whole idea and the whole thought of what hell is really comes from. And 179 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.320 how many times have we heard people talk about, oh, well, when 180 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.879 you go to hell, you'll be able to see God but not be able 181 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.639 to do anything about it. That comes from this verse. And what I 182 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:30.480 find interesting on this verse is that, hey, if you really study the 183 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:35.960 scriptures, is that it's mixing two different theologies here. It's robbing from the 184 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:41.440 Hebrew culture, because I contend Christianity has no God. You can't tell me 185 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:46.679 who the Christian God is. But in here Jesus would have never said this. 186 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.480 Jesus was a rabbi, he would not have had the concept of a 187 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:58.120 hell. He would have understood Abraham. And you know, the story goes 188 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:03.679 on that there's this great chasm between Abraham and the rich man. Las or 189 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:08.120 something is the other story. So it's very interesting how the mind trap starts 190 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:12.360 right here. From the get go two different theologies, one that was old, 191 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:19.240 one was being invented. It's also interesting here the distinction between the poor 192 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:23.279 man and the rich man. It's almost like, if you're poor, then 193 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:29.840 you're going to be saved. If you're rich, you're going to torment. 194 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.000 You know what I think you can relate that to what Luke or whoever wrote 195 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:40.279 this book is saying, is they're basically describing in different terms the Egyptian Hall 196 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:42.679 of judgment. In the Hall of judgment, you had the heart and you 197 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:45.559 have the feather that were weighed. The feather was the soul. The heart 198 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:51.639 was the physical aspects of life. And if your heart was heavy or weightful 199 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:56.519 with sin or with regret or with desire, the beast would eat it and 200 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.480 you were not able to go into the next stage of the after life, 201 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.400 so that that would be a man who is poor in a sense, and 202 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.160 the man who is rich has no physical possessions, but is rich in spirit. 203 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.119 The feather therefore is more weightful than the heart, and then you're able 204 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:15.680 to transcend. I think that's what that's saying. I think so too. 205 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:21.880 But it's just interesting in the words that they use to describe it. I 206 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.000 think it's definitely a metaphor, but it's just interesting the poor, the poor 207 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:33.319 and the rich, because it's something that's been you know, propagated through Christianity 208 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:40.720 that if you have a lot of possessions, and you know, God isn't 209 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:45.839 really favoring you if you if you have a lot of things, if you 210 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.799 have a lot of material possessions, and that's of the devil, right. 211 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:56.160 It's almost it's almost Buddhist in a way. And I think that people have 212 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.960 also politicized that because a lot of people take the Bible and say that, 213 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.440 because they say the Book of Luke says something to that effect. They believe 214 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.920 it's like an anti capitalist message, which is in the same way that you 215 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.640 can interpret the Bible and you can interpret you know, you can interpret a 216 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:15.920 simple verse like that to mean some political thing. You could interpret it to 217 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:18.519 mean that I have to be poor in order to go to heaven. You 218 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:22.400 can interpret it as as I do. I interpret it as being part of 219 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:29.039 the ancient mystery tradition. But the Egyptians taught in the Underworld story. You 220 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:33.759 can interpret it and quite a few different ways. I don't think it's literal, 221 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.839 to put it bluntly, I don't think it's literal. You know what's 222 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:42.160 really interesting to this discussion is that I go back to the very beginning. 223 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.200 So what came first? Was it the creation of this heaven hell? Death? 224 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:53.720 Or was it live? Because if you have the construct that there was 225 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:59.000 a heaven in Hell, who populated it? How did it start? How 226 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.039 did it begin? And if you look at the whole concept of Hell of 227 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:08.359 Satan Lucifer, then Hell has to be run by a woman, because a 228 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:15.160 woman would be the direct antithesis of the Hebrew god Yahweh, the Eloween. 229 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:21.480 So the whole concept of Hell, when you begin to examine it, begins 230 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:26.039 to crumble very quickly because what it's saying is that Hell is run by women, 231 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.279 and because they would be the only ones that would accept God's rejects, 232 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.680 and the mother of all demons is a well in the Jewish vision, is 233 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:38.720 Lilith or Lam Yeah, yeah, so she was the mother of all demons. 234 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:41.599 You know, she just didn't fit into the Catholic narrative. But I 235 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.000 think in the very beginning, when they were still trying to figure out who 236 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:51.119 the God of Christianity is, you know, I think in one of the 237 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.440 versions it may have been a woman, but it still gets back to the 238 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:59.359 whole idea. So what was the purpose of this creation? And if man 239 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:06.279 came in after the scene, then it's a setup. It's a complete setup. 240 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:11.720 You know that if you take the idea of the queen of the queen 241 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.920 of the underworld, which is something that you find in Greece very famously with 242 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:22.799 Persephone or Proserpina in Rome, and that's a concept you also find again in 243 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:27.440 mess America, you find in Japan with Isanami, the queen of the underworld, 244 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:32.640 or the Scandinavians actually called her. Funny enough, the Scandinavian name for 245 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:37.880 the underworld goddess was hell h e l translated to how we would pronounce it 246 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.519 today. Hell. So the goddess or the queen of the underworld. That 247 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:47.160 was always a queen, it was always a woman, And usually that story 248 00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:52.880 is meant to be interpreted as an allegory and a metaphor for nature. So 249 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:56.079 I'm sure that you guys both know this. But like Persephone is probably the 250 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.559 most famous story. When she goes into the underworld, she's this young, 251 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:03.839 beautiful woman, so she represents spring in summertime. She's defiled by the fall, 252 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.200 which is represented by Hades, who rides the black Horse that is the 253 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.680 horse of the end of the year, the coming of the lifting of the 254 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:17.000 veil, the apocalypse, the unveiling, and then the Pale Horse, which 255 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.519 is the death of winter. So you have this beautiful young woman of spring 256 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:25.400 and summer. She's kidnapped and raped and abused by Hades with the black horse, 257 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:27.839 who actually carries scales in some of the stories, and he takes her 258 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:33.359 to the underworld. And when she goes to the underworld, Earth essentially dies. 259 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.680 And because Demeter, her mother, is very saddened that her daughter has 260 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:41.599 been kidnapped and raped and abused, so she lets the crops die. And 261 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:45.960 Zeus gets upset in the story because all mankind is going to die without food, 262 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:52.319 without light, so eventually Zeus convinces her to and convinces Hades to allow 263 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:56.759 Persephone to go. The story goes that she eats food in the underworld, 264 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:02.640 which you see that movie Man's Labyrinth when Ophelia's turned out to eat the food 265 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:07.480 and the pale Man's layer. That's purely Greek and Roman and other mythologies. 266 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.759 So she eats a pomegranate seed, which often is also correlated to the apple 267 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.079 and the garden of Eden. And when she eats the pomegranate seed, I 268 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:19.720 think she eats a third or something like that of the pomegranate. So she 269 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:23.400 has to stay in the underworld that portion of the year. So she has 270 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:26.680 to stay there roughly through the fall in the winter, and then when she 271 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.880 comes back to life in the spring, everything blooms again because her beauty comes 272 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:36.519 back to the world. So although she is essentially the queen of the underworld, 273 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:41.599 she's also the queen of regeneration and rebirth, which is something we find 274 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:47.160 in Egypt, where Queen Isis has both white veils of purity where we get 275 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.039 the wedding veil from in part, and also black veils of mourning where we 276 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:55.960 get the story of the cinders on her face. The Cinderella story, she's 277 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.960 searching for her prince Charming. So she's both a white and black goddess or 278 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.279 queen in the same way that I think it's the Zohar. You have the 279 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.759 black and white god, and there's an agricultural aspected element to all of this 280 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:12.200 that's very important, I think to the discussion of heaven and hell. It 281 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.880 odd that the pomegranate had also adorned the doors to the Holy of the Holies, 282 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:26.960 the temple. Mm hmm, well my still on, Yeah, okay, 283 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:32.680 I'm good. It's interesting when we talk about, you know, these 284 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:41.480 people going into hell because you know who else descended into hell. Jesus Christ 285 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:51.000 whenever he died, he descended into hell for three days and then resurrected and 286 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:56.319 then ascended into heaven. Which people really leave that part of the story out 287 00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:00.960 for some reason. Wait a minute. He was crucified on a Friday and 288 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:07.039 raised on a Sunday morning. That ain't three days. I'm just I'm just 289 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:10.440 telling what the book said. I mean, you know, there ain't no 290 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.359 three days there. Well, it was on maybe on the Thursday, Fridays, 291 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.839 the day Saturdays, on the third day I guess it can't be no 292 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:22.480 good Maybe good Thursday. I don't know, but they didn't sell enough fish, 293 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:25.559 so I mean, maybe that's why. I don't know. I've actually 294 00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:29.119 heard some scholars suggest that that a lot of the stuff in the Bible fish 295 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:33.920 and wine is really just a bunch of marketing. Well, what was it, 296 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.960 Pope? Was it? Was it Pope Pious the Third who said, 297 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.759 Oh, how we've deceived the people in this this belief of Jesus that never 298 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:48.240 you know existed. So and today it's odd because it influences all of our 299 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.079 culture. We're talking about heaven and Hell. It's the great fear. Hollywood 300 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.920 has made billions on, you know, personifying this place called Hell. Yes, 301 00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:02.000 as a philosopher, I look at Hell is probably the place where i'd 302 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:06.720 want to be, because I'd be very uncomfortable in heaven because I'm the problem 303 00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:11.440 child. I'm the person that when you see me, I'm someone said the 304 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:19.680 great question mark, you know, I guess, yeah, I'm trying to 305 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:26.839 look for this verse really quickly. I think it's Ephesians four nine that says 306 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:33.160 Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth. Well, I mean the 307 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:37.720 whole Jesus story. A lot of people say, well, it's just sun 308 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.559 worship. Well, in a sense, it is, but it's a little 309 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:45.640 more complex than that. It's really kind of a mixture of both agricultural analogies, 310 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:49.279 metaphors, and allegories, Like there's a whole bunch of stuff that gets 311 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:56.039 put into the story that becomes the Jesus descending into the hell story or the 312 00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:59.680 verse that you're looking for. In the same way that when Jesus transcends and 313 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.920 goes up into Heaven, that is a story that's also told all throughout the 314 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:07.279 world in various different forms. So really, the Jesus story isn't simplified in 315 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.680 my view as just oh, it's just sun worship. Now, it's far 316 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:17.720 more than that. It's basically a mixture of what it seems like virtually every 317 00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.200 major culture on this planet. It's putting all this together. And I think 318 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.319 that the Church, and I think most people understand this and know this already, 319 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:30.839 that the Church was trying to take these ancient cult beliefs and basically make 320 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:37.079 it easier for the people to accept this new state sponsored religion by bringing those 321 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.319 people that already have these beliefs into the Christian narrative because it was so similar 322 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.880 to what they already believed, they just created a new version of it. 323 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:51.279 Whether that's the point out that when Christianity came about, and I always figure 324 00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:55.880 about three seventy five four five it was organized, that was also the beginning 325 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:02.640 of the Dark Ages, and ever since this religion has populated through the world, 326 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:07.599 it has brought the Dark Ages with it. I mean, the Batylonian 327 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:14.359 Tulmult says that the Goam are the slaves of the Jews, and that Christianity 328 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.160 is the curse of the Jews upon the Goum, because the Hebrew God will 329 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:26.599 never allow a gentile in his presence right the story, I mean, that's 330 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.880 what it says. And so you've got this false narrative where today in the 331 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:37.279 Western world we're convinced that this story actually is true, but actually we all 332 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.599 know deep down that it most likely is not so anyway, Which of course 333 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.400 doesn't mean that many of the motifs and the principles and whatnot that you find 334 00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:51.279 in Christianity aren't things that you should abide by or better ways to live your 335 00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:56.200 life. Like Christian principles, it's probably a pretty good way to live objectively 336 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.079 speaking, But that doesn't mean that Wane's not right, which I agree with 337 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.640 him that it's and I think I mean the Muslims in the Jews, that's 338 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.559 one thing they agree on, that Jesus was not the son of God. 339 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:10.960 That was a blasphemous thing to tell me that space. If you read the 340 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.720 talent, it says, I'm sure Wayne knows this. It says that anybody 341 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.920 who well, they refer to anybody who distresses Israel as being the chief, 342 00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:26.079 which is a word that was used to describe basically detractors of the Rabbis and 343 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:32.960 detractors of the of the I guess the elites in the rabbinical class. And 344 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.519 they said that anybody who does that, which included Jesus, who they said 345 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:41.319 was a wicked sorcerer from who learned magic in Egypt, who claimed blasphemously to 346 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.799 be the son of God, that he would burn eternally an excrement. I 347 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.160 think it's like track fifty seven A or fifty seven B of the tal Me. 348 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:52.880 Actually, people say that doesn't say that. No, it does say 349 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.519 that. You can just look up. I just taught on this a couple 350 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.559 of weeks ago. So it's very Rabbi Fuchs when I was looking to convert 351 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:04.440 to Judaism after our third meeting, he just looked at me and he says, 352 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:11.920 do the Jews a favor. Don't convert because their opinion of the Twelve 353 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:18.240 Apostles that they were the twelve devils, the twelve rebels that destroyed Jerusalem. 354 00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:22.200 And that's how the Jewish people view Christianity. It was those twelve so called 355 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:30.400 Apostles that were the ones then the blame for bringing down their their whole society. 356 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.680 Yeah, I think it's just a couple tracts or versus. After the 357 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:38.039 THECES comment, where is this guy named Akellos? I don't know how to 358 00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:41.000 pronounce the name? You know that? Is it on Kelos? You know 359 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.359 that name? You're close guy, I have no on Kellos something like that. 360 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:48.759 I'd be speaking in tongues, you know, That's what it feels like. 361 00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:53.839 So he wants to convert to Judaism, and he goes to some of 362 00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:57.519 the higher ups and asks and they and he basically the story goes, he 363 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:04.839 goes and actually reforms necromancy. It literally literally says this in the teal mute. 364 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:11.359 He performs necromancy to resurrect Jesus from hell or from the dead, and 365 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.599 then he asks Jesus, what do you make of these Jews, Like that's 366 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:18.039 what he's asking. And Jesus says, well, he said you should not 367 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.559 seek their misfortune, but you should seek their guidance and protection like you. 368 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.799 Basically you should convert to Judaism, I think is essentially what Jesus tells him. 369 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:30.079 And the guy says, okay, well what if I don't, what 370 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:32.640 if I choose to go my own way? And he says, well, 371 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:34.599 then you will be punished the way that I was punished. And he says, 372 00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:37.400 well, how was how were you punished? And he says, you 373 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:42.519 will burn eternally in boiling excrement if you do something that the Jews don't like. 374 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:47.359 So I find it really ironic. And I know that's one section of 375 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:49.319 the Talmut. It's very large, and you can take things out of context. 376 00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:52.400 But and the same with the Bible or the Koran. But you know, 377 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.799 Christians and Muslims believe a lot of the same things, and yet the 378 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.400 media and our society have them neck to necking each other's heads off all the 379 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:04.160 time. And there's extremist groups of course, in both, but for the 380 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:11.920 Christians to be so held bent no pun intended on supporting the Jews and supporting 381 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:15.279 Israel, when the Jews on average don't really support Christians and actually see the 382 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:19.400 Christians as blasphemos themselves and say, actually, all the in the tell me 383 00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:23.640 this says, all the followers of Jesus will be punished in that way. 384 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:29.359 It's weird because the Muslims believe virtually what the Christians believe, with the exception 385 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.680 that Jesus is the son of God. I've always said Christians have far more 386 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.880 in common with Muhammad and Allah and Muslims than they do with the Jews. 387 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:40.640 I'd agree with that. Doctor Charles, in his book of Historical Jesus, 388 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:47.240 pointed out that he felt that it was the Vatican in eight eight hundred right 389 00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:53.039 around there that they were the ones that also helped start the Islamic religion. 390 00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:59.960 Interesting I ever heard that. I'll check and after the show, I'll send 391 00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:02.519 you the book. And the reference of it was that what because it allowed 392 00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:09.160 Rome to have the perfect corner on the market. Rome took the umbrella of 393 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:16.200 the Abrahamic Covenant as its own, so basically like almost like offering like a 394 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:20.440 one company that makes two or three different products, but they own them all. 395 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:28.160 It's SELFI national we serve everybody. Y Coca pepsi is basically what it 396 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:35.519 is. Here's this verse, this verse right here Ephesians for nine through ten. 397 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:40.480 Now that he ascended, but what is it but that he also descended 398 00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:45.640 into the lower parts of the earth. He then is the seam as the 399 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:52.400 one that uscended up far above the all heavens, that he might find or 400 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:58.119 that he might fill all things. So, and I think that this is 401 00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:07.240 what the the Old Testament people kind of believed that whenever Jesus was crucified and 402 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:13.119 died, then he freed the souls from hell. That's why you went to 403 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:17.440 He descended into hell, and then that made it to where people can enter 404 00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:28.680 into haven. I think what Jesus in my view, I think Jesus quote 405 00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:32.759 unquote whatever you define that name, because it's a title and it's more, 406 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.200 it's not There was no Jesus in the Hebrew or even in the Greek. 407 00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:42.720 It was more like Jesus. It was more like Zeus and translated from Hebrew 408 00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:46.839 to yeah, Jeseus right from Hebrew to Greek. So there was no Jesus, 409 00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.799 but there might have been many people that played a part like Jesus. 410 00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:55.880 In fact, there certainly were because the Romans actually, well they usually did. 411 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:01.039 From what I understand, the Romans didn't crucify people usually for religious crimes. 412 00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.400 They did for other crimes, so it was kind of uncommon. I 413 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:07.000 don't know how true that is. I didn't live in ancient Rome, so 414 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:12.199 I don't know, but from what I understand, they didn't really usually crucifiable 415 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.119 for religious crimes, but there were people that certainly committed religious crimes. Whoever 416 00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:21.960 this Jesus character was, or many Jesus characters, because there are probably many 417 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:27.119 of them that whatever they had done, they certainly had angered the Roman establishment, 418 00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:30.119 the Roman authority. They could have been more like political activists. I 419 00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:37.800 mean, if you were teaching that Rome wasn't the main authority in the land, 420 00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:39.760 I mean, that's enough to get you killed. Probably It's same as 421 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:43.840 it would be today if you were in China or North Korea. It's a 422 00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:46.360 very similar kind of a thing. So I do I think what Jesus was 423 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:50.920 teaching, in my view, or at least conceptually, what we can kind 424 00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:54.599 of pull out of the Jesus story is he's teaching the mystery religions, because 425 00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:59.519 when he raises Lazarus from the dead, that's the same story that we read 426 00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:05.079 about the Egyptian temples and pyramids. It's raising someone physically from the dead, 427 00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:08.559 but they're not physically dead. They call it living resurrection. And so Jesus 428 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:13.480 is showing you to go to Hell and to come back. It's really in 429 00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:17.400 psychological terms, or even in literature terms, it's kind of like the poems 430 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.000 and the stories. I think they were like sixteenth century. I forget who 431 00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:23.119 wrote them and came up with the idea of the dark Knight of the soul. 432 00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:27.800 You go into yourself, and that's I think what the Jesus story is 433 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.840 all about, going into Hell, going into yourself, dealing with your demons, 434 00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:36.760 killing the dragon, slaughtering the beast, the animal sacrifice, and then 435 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.280 transcending out of that and recognizing you're part of a much larger whole ide heaven. 436 00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:45.599 And I think that's what the Jesus story is actually saying. And then 437 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:50.079 you have to weigh that with history. I mean, when I finally realized 438 00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:55.360 that the Jesus story was just that it's a story, because history shows when 439 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:01.239 the real character in the New Testament, and the first four gospels are actually 440 00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:07.800 the exploits of Vespasian. Now Vespasian was real, we know what he looks 441 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.159 like. We have a bust of them. And where the crucifixion story came 442 00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:19.079 from was because of his son Titus, when he basically held siege to Jerusalem 443 00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.920 and allowed the Jews for the first time within years to come in worship on 444 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:30.000 the high Holy days, and then Titus sealed them in and basically it was 445 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:35.800 two million people that were slaughtered. That was the fall of Jerusalem. And 446 00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:39.079 it was right after that that Titus went into the temple and took out the 447 00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:45.840 holy relics of the Hebrew worship. The three people that Titus did in fact 448 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.840 crucify on the hill, that story is actually true. But they were as 449 00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.440 you pointed out, and they were actually rebels. They were the ones that 450 00:36:54.519 --> 00:37:00.719 actually broke the law according to Roman law. But we don't hear that in 451 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:06.119 the New Testament. You don't hear the story of Titus. And again, 452 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:10.559 the idea that we read these gospels, the lunacy of this is is that 453 00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:15.000 you really think a human being could sit down twenty years later and write a 454 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:22.000 story per batum. I mean, we know that's impossible unless it was channeling. 455 00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:28.440 Now maybe he was in fact channeling something. But that's the problem that 456 00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:31.639 I see that we face here in the West. We're still hung by this 457 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:37.760 god spell that still hangs over our whole culture, particularly now that it's spread 458 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:43.679 worldwide. But that's just my opinion. A couple interesting things to what you 459 00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.400 said. First of all, a lot of the way that we interpret heaven, 460 00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:51.559 hell, purgatory, God, the devil and all that is cultural. 461 00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:55.519 So like, for example, in Japan, although a lot of Japanese now 462 00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:01.280 have transitioned to become Christian because I think they love Western ideas, blue genes 463 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:06.519 and rock music, rockkup music and all that, they also like Christianity. 464 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:14.079 But in traditional Japanese belief, which is mostly from Taoism, Confucianism, and 465 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:20.480 Hinduism originally Buddhism and Hinduism at its core, they practice what you might know 466 00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:24.679 I practice as Shintoism, and Shintoism is totally different than any other thing I've 467 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:29.440 ever read in my life about religion or any kind of theology. They actually 468 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.519 see life not to be suffering. They see life as a positive, wonderful 469 00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:37.519 thing, and that the only time life becomes uncomfortable and painful is when you 470 00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:43.480 fail to fulfill your duties, honor your ancestors, do what you need to 471 00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:47.440 do for your community. So and that really speaks to the cultural essence of 472 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:52.480 what the Japanese are. I'm not saying all Japanese, but traditionally so in 473 00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:57.559 the West, we usually see the world in a totally different way, just 474 00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.280 like other Eastern countries do. It's not right or wrong, but the culture 475 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:06.320 that we live in, is my point, can radically transform our perceptions of 476 00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:10.519 what's the meaning of life, what's the point of of living and dying, 477 00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:15.639 what happens after we die, just from a cultural standpoint, just from a 478 00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:19.199 cultural point of view, that can that can drastically change the way that we 479 00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:22.920 look at the world. And then when you try like the Romans, clearly 480 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:29.920 that when you try to create something like I had a thought that came to 481 00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:31.639 my head a moment ago when Wayne was talking. I was think, I 482 00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:34.559 don't know how again, I don't know how true this is. I didn't 483 00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:37.719 live in ancient Rome, but from what I've read, I understand that the 484 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.840 Romans, depending on the time period, because Rome was vast in terms of 485 00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:45.960 how much power and how well they had power for the Romans, like at 486 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:51.039 certain points didn't actually prosecute people for religious crimes, and the scene. You 487 00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:52.760 really it's kind of like Siria. Today. I met some people from Syria. 488 00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.400 They said, actually, if you're a if you're in Syria, a 489 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:58.440 lot of places in Syria, you can be a Jew, you can be 490 00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:00.639 a Christian, you can be a Muslim. There's no contrary to or our 491 00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:05.039 media says. I was told that by multiple people from Syria. It's kind 492 00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.199 of the impression I got of like ancient Roman at certain points, the Romans 493 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:12.119 are actually very accepting. In fact, Manly Hall, my favorite author all 494 00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:15.599 time, he said he said that it was the Christians that originally burned Rome 495 00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:20.880 and that the Romans finally had enough of Christianity, but enough people in power 496 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:23.239 thought hey, this is a really good cult. We could use this, 497 00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:28.800 and so they adopted it. But that the Romans originally they were like this 498 00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:30.840 is Christians are fine, you can be here. It was the Christians that 499 00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:35.800 pushed which it's really bad if you pushed the Romans to do that. The 500 00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:38.159 Romans were like, these people are insane. So but we could use them. 501 00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:40.639 It's kind of the idea that Manly Hall played with. He wrote a 502 00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.320 book called How to Understand Your Bible, which is really good, and he 503 00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.199 talks about that in that book. He pointed out as well as that isn't 504 00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:57.280 it odd? The one Roman who basically invented and wrote Christianity New Testament theology 505 00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:05.039 was Paul. Paul's family supplied the Roman legions with tents and other utensils, 506 00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:10.440 made them what would be comparative today to billionaires. The story of Paul being 507 00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:15.199 beheaded in Rome is actually false because there is, in fact the twenty ninth 508 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:20.280 chapter of the Book of Acts where Paul went and settled up in Germany, 509 00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.159 and in fact, in the twenty ninth chapter of the Book of Acts it 510 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:30.800 says that he actually killed Pilot. So it's very interesting when you start dissecting 511 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:36.039 all this to see how it completely as you said, right, it fashions 512 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:42.280 our culture, our society, our laws, our governments. Another example of 513 00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:46.039 that would be if you looked at like the Scandinavian countries, they're depictions of 514 00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:51.519 Hell and their depictions of the end of the world. You know, these 515 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.119 are places that are famously like the Vikings came to places that are famously like 516 00:41:55.280 --> 00:42:00.079 cold and hellish, like unlike you know where I'm from, Florida. You 517 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:04.599 know, we if these ideas develop today, you know, my idea of 518 00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:07.519 heaven or hell might be different coming from Saint Pete Beach, Florida than someone 519 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:12.159 who lives up in like Manitoba, Canada, you know, because of the 520 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.679 just the climate alone can change our views on heaven and hell, can change 521 00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:21.360 our views on what it means to live and to die. I think that's 522 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:23.599 a really important ask, just to kind of play on the question that you 523 00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:27.599 asked at the beginning of the show, writer, I think, you know, 524 00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:30.559 the way that we grow up, the climate a lot of our culture 525 00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:37.039 that can certainly determine how we we view the world and our experiences, you 526 00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:40.119 know, our experiences of life dictate, you know, what we believe in, 527 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:45.320 how we fashion our own thoughts and our ideas and our beliefs. Now, 528 00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:51.880 as I mentioned in the very beginning of the show, how Hinduism is 529 00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:57.679 one of the oldest, well is the oldest religion in the world, dating 530 00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:04.840 back over five thousand years, and they believed in reincarnation. Now, when 531 00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:14.000 I'm thinking of reincarnation, I'm like, well, if reincarnation is real and 532 00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:19.360 we get brought back onto the Earth, but just in a different body, 533 00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:24.280 what would be the reason for that? And when you deduct, oh, 534 00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:29.960 well, if that's the case and that's really what's happening, does that mean 535 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.519 that there's not any other place else to go? Right? Well, I 536 00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:40.079 mean, why would we need to be constantly continuously recycled back here? To 537 00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:45.360 me, that would indicate that there's no other place else to go, that 538 00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:50.920 this is the only place for us to go. If indeed reincarnation is a 539 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.119 you know, let's rider, can we expand on that? Because if reincarnation 540 00:43:54.400 --> 00:44:00.000 is for our corporeal bodies, spirits, whatever you want to call it, 541 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:06.440 then what about the planets. Earth is a living entity, It's a living 542 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:10.079 planet. If it wasn't alive, we wouldn't be alive. Earth will eventually 543 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:15.599 cease to exist, something will happen to either our Sun will go super nova, 544 00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:20.159 but Earth will eventually, some point in the future be destroyed. So 545 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:27.599 how does the reincarnation story go then? Is Earth reincarnated? Does Earth come 546 00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:31.760 back into the ethereal realm and reincarnate as another planet, or does it become 547 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:37.880 a sun you know, my mind and my meditation. I think about these 548 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.199 things and you begin to extraculate it, and you're going, but wait a 549 00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:49.079 minute, reincarnation is finite. That's a good point. It is finite. 550 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:54.280 I honestly don't have much of an interpretation or perception of reincarnation. Writer to 551 00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:58.480 your question, I do know that it's one of its probably I would say 552 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:01.400 it's probably one of the oldest docs. It is part of the Christian doctrine 553 00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:07.559 originally, And of course it also depends on how you define reincarnation. So 554 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.000 I suppose my interpretation would be, if I had to give you one is 555 00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:16.119 that we assume reincarnation means you come back into this world. But perhaps like 556 00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:22.960 in meso America and in Africa, the idea was you like pharaohs would be 557 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:29.199 reincarnated but as stars. But that doesn't mean that they were like physically they 558 00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:32.559 physically became a star, or like the baby son from the Teletuppies, like 559 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:40.159 it became alive. If it means you transcended to the stars, you transcended 560 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:45.719 the heaven, like you reincarnated as something else, or you became associated with 561 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.559 this with a star or something to that effect. So reincarnation. We assume 562 00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:55.199 it means bodies, but it might not mean physical human bodies or animal bodies 563 00:45:55.239 --> 00:46:01.760 or insect bodies. It might mean a consciousness that is that perhaps elsewhere I 564 00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:06.519 guess, rebirthed in the cosmos somewhere. That could be as a star, 565 00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:10.239 that could be as another planet. Like I'm not saying literally you become a 566 00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:14.199 planet or a star. I'm saying that the idea in Egypt was that the 567 00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:19.519 pharaohs would go to become stars. That's how they were reincarnated. So reincarnation 568 00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:22.679 might not be that we just come into a physical body again and when we 569 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:24.320 die and see the light, that's us being born. I gin it's a 570 00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:29.719 very new age concept, so it's like we're star seeds, you know. 571 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.480 I think that there's another way to interpret and define reincarnation again, as the 572 00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:38.960 Egyptians and as the Meso Americans did, that you were reincarnated as part of 573 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:43.880 the cosmos view or actually, you know what that idea might be similar to 574 00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:47.800 that the mainline physics view of energy, right, like energy can't be destroyed, 575 00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:52.280 it can only be transferred themodynamics. Yes, it's in fact, I 576 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:57.239 think modern physics there's actually a good book written on this about how modern physics 577 00:46:57.639 --> 00:47:02.400 mirrors a large amount of what we find an Eastern philosophy and the just tradition. 578 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:07.360 I think that might be what reincarnation is, Like your energy gets recycled, 579 00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:09.039 not that you come back into a body. Does that make sense, 580 00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:15.719 right? I was just saying the perception of what people think reincarnation is. 581 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:21.880 The people, Yeah, they think when they think of reincarnation, and I 582 00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:27.960 think the way that it's been depicted is that it's like an endless loop of 583 00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:32.840 being reincarnated back into a human body. But I believe that the Buddhists believe 584 00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:40.199 that you can be reincarnated into animals and plants and like all different forms of 585 00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:46.320 life. But again, I think people think that it means that we're automatically 586 00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:52.960 brought back onto this planet. And then that's my question and my point of 587 00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:58.159 bringing this up is like, well, why why would we have to come 588 00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:02.039 back here? You know, it doesn't really make any sense unless this is 589 00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:07.400 the only place for us to be, if this is the only place that 590 00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:13.920 it can stain physical three D life, such as the people that are listening 591 00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:17.239 to this and such as Wayne myself and Ryan. Right, if you deduct 592 00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:23.320 all that, and let's say reincarnation is real, then that would imply that 593 00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:27.920 this is the only place to be because it's the only place that we can 594 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:32.920 I mean, what the fuck I mean that is hell? I mean means 595 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:38.559 that this is a trap, there's no way out. Excuse me, bluntness, 596 00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:42.880 but that's exactly whatuld be my depiction of Hell. I mean, what 597 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:45.360 do you go to hell for anyway? Well, you have to go back 598 00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:49.840 to the Christian theology or whatever. But that to me, you see, 599 00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:52.320 that's what drives me inside. And I'm going but wait a minute. So 600 00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:58.119 the ultimate intelligence that creates all of this architecture, this is what we call 601 00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:01.360 reality, the universe, ex that this is the best it could come up 602 00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:10.119 with. Maybe the idea of what maybe the purpose of what you're saying right 603 00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:16.039 of the purpose of coming back into this this world. Maybe it's like a 604 00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:22.159 lot of cultures believe in ancestor worship, where your ancestors are with you. 605 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:30.320 Maybe the reincarnation element is almost like being reincarnated or kept alive in the minds 606 00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:34.199 of your descendants. Maybe it's not you know what, I don't know who 607 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:37.679 my ancestors are. I mean, on the DNA but I don't know how 608 00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:42.719 to connect my ancestors and I don't know them. Well, maybe walk and 609 00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:45.320 slap me in the face and I'd go, sure, prove it, you 610 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:46.920 know. But maybe we learned that after we die, I mean, maybe 611 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:52.159 we the restraints to the physical world are lifted and we have access to the 612 00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:59.239 akashik or whatever that the Kosher records record. Yes, what actually comes from 613 00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:02.719 the book of mallet Ki By the way, I didn't know that, Yeah, 614 00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:08.760 Malachi h three twenty. It's actually that talks about the angel or the 615 00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:16.960 entity that writes everything down into the book. But then comes in another thought 616 00:50:17.159 --> 00:50:25.280 and train of thought, what if when we die, things are so bad 617 00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:31.760 outside of our reality that this place is the only place for us to come 618 00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:37.239 to, right, Like, what if everything is just like destroyed and this 619 00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:42.440 is a real simulation for us to be in for a period of time until 620 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.800 everything outside of us gets rebuilt. What you're saying is, when you die 621 00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:53.599 and die, you go to Portland, don't bring your guns. You know. 622 00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:59.280 Well, I mean a lot of people think that, you know, 623 00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:07.159 especially the New Age thought ideas and beliefs, that we choose to come here, 624 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:12.440 right that's like a theory and a thought that has been permeated for a 625 00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:15.480 really long time, and I feel like it's an excuse like to be like, 626 00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:19.840 oh, well, you chose this life. Well, I'm sure for 627 00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.840 a lot of people they did not choose their circumstances or their ideas, which 628 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:28.840 I think is complete in utter fabrication. But if we take that into consideration, 629 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:32.920 and that concept that we chose to be here and live this life, 630 00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:38.480 then why would we choose to be here and live this life. There would 631 00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:46.440 have to be some sort of extenuating circumstances outside of our reality that would kind 632 00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:52.840 of force us to continuously come back here. I don't know. That's just 633 00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:55.519 where my thought process. You know, you think about the birth process. 634 00:51:55.599 --> 00:52:00.480 So if we're really you know, eternal, or if we're really these consciousness 635 00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:06.719 that really never die, never began. But so you're telling me that we 636 00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:09.719 thought about this, and and so we're reading the agreement. You're going to 637 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:15.920 go through the birth canal. I can't think of anything more painful for a 638 00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:20.760 human to experience than physical birth. It only happens one way. You can't 639 00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:24.639 do it twice. And then you're going to roll the dice and hope that 640 00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:30.880 someone's there to take care of you. I mean that maybe that is the 641 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:37.679 point the experience. I don't know. Maybe that's why we fear death so 642 00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:46.239 much that we're afraid of being born again. M Ryan, what do you 643 00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:51.079 think? You know? Honestly, I don't know if I have much of 644 00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:53.920 an opinion on it. I don't know if I'm not an opinion per se. 645 00:52:53.960 --> 00:53:00.000 But I don't really have that thought worked out too well. I don't 646 00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:05.639 know if it's something that I could really it's abstract. I don't know if 647 00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:07.440 I could really put them into words. How I feel about it, Like 648 00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:12.400 I understand the question, I understand what Wayne's saying. Don't if I really 649 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:15.800 have many thoughts about that, I'm being honest, Yeah, I think it's 650 00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:22.599 just an interesting concept and just where my mind and brain goes is sometimes it's 651 00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:27.280 a weird mind and a weird brain, But sometimes I think it has takes 652 00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:31.360 me to that direction, like you know, to analyze things from a different 653 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:37.440 kind of perspective. And what if there is extenuating circumstances that we do not 654 00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:45.360 know about because we're in this three D physical reality that whenever we get outside 655 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:50.199 of this three D physical reality, we actually get the full scope, in 656 00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:59.960 the full picture, so then we voluntarily come back whether those extenuating circumstances or 657 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:06.239 are bad circumstances, or regardless if they're good or bad. Well, do 658 00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:13.800 all spirits have physical bodies? I mean I went to Bible school, and 659 00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:16.400 you know, we John writes about in the Book of Revelation, how the 660 00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:19.639 one third of the heavens, you know, and if you go by his 661 00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.920 number one thousand times a thousand times a thousand, then you know you're looking 662 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:27.480 at something like ten trillion angels that were created, and all of a sudden 663 00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:31.400 they fail a third of them. That means there is roughly about thirty three 664 00:54:31.480 --> 00:54:37.719 trillion angel fallen angels. Going with the concept, and did all of those 665 00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:44.239 trillions of angels demons? Do they have physical bodies? Or is it that 666 00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:51.039 there's another process that we're not fully understanding how consciousness manifest. I mean, 667 00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:58.000 so if we're the only ones that are going through the physical birth again that's 668 00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:06.000 finite. Well, then I think you kind of have to define what an 669 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:08.760 angel is. I mean, is it's like you're saying, as an angel 670 00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:14.280 a physical entity, does it have a physical body? Is it an energy? 671 00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:20.719 Is it electricity? You know what is an actual angel, and I 672 00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:28.440 think that it's a that's a hypothetical and theological definition of what an angel is, 673 00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:31.119 because I don't really think anybody really knows what an angel is well. 674 00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:36.000 In the same way that you can interpret heaven as being a state of love 675 00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:42.679 and compassion and hell as being a state of like betrayal and loneliness and heartbreak 676 00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:46.960 and purgatory, is that transition between the two that means purifying. I think 677 00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:52.840 you can interpret angels and demons in similar ways, Like if you were to 678 00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:57.800 look at a lot of classical demons in the demonological lore, where you have 679 00:55:58.039 --> 00:56:02.880 let's say asthmo dea who is he gives different things, like he can teach 680 00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:07.800 you things, but he's usually rich, he can make you rich. He's 681 00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:12.719 usually the demon of lust. So a person who is lust full is said 682 00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:16.079 to be possessed by as Modeas. It doesn't mean that they're in need of 683 00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:22.599 an exorcism. They're possessed by the spirit, if you will, of Asmodeus. 684 00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:25.320 They're possessed by the idea of Asthmodeus. In the same way that you 685 00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:30.800 know, we even talk sometimes politically about possession. We'll say people are possessed 686 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:37.559 by Marxism or possessed by ultra conservatism. It's the same possessed by power, 687 00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:42.440 possessed by their wealth, their ideas. You know, we say ideas, 688 00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.880 and like sometimes our thoughts are eating us alive, like the demons are inside 689 00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:47.880 of a senus alive. I mean a lot of and same with angels too. 690 00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:53.679 A lot of this stuff is a matter of we're personifying suffering or personifying 691 00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:01.239 aspects of ourself that we can't I don't think, identify with otherwise, like 692 00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:07.079 we project them externally. And another good example of this is where the word 693 00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:13.719 exorcism comes from, because it has a similar route x orcism and ex er 694 00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:17.840 size. So we say exercise demons. It's kind of a funny play on 695 00:57:17.960 --> 00:57:24.800 words, but we literally exercise demons. Traditionally, demons would be possessed through 696 00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:30.440 medical procedures, long before there was ever like a cannon sort of exorcism in 697 00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:37.519 the church. The samurai would actually come into a home. These were the 698 00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:43.239 famous samurai warriors, and if someone was possessed quote unquote, they would take 699 00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:47.480 their sword and they would cut the air above the head to sever the connection 700 00:57:47.719 --> 00:57:53.320 to the spirit. So the samurai performed exorcisms. You go back much further 701 00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:59.199 than the samurai, and you find that people performed exorcisms in different ways all 702 00:57:59.199 --> 00:58:01.639 over the world. They were people that were sick from an illness, some 703 00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:05.440 sort of illness. We didn't know what it was, and so we said 704 00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:08.800 that there was some spirit possessing them. And so they would usually do things 705 00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:14.960 like playing music, which is harmony, which is balance and love and all. 706 00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:20.079 Pythagoras talked about harmony being basically God. And when these things would the 707 00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:22.760 music would be played, they thought that people could be healed and the demon 708 00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:25.960 would leave the body. But the point of what I'm getting out here is 709 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:32.119 that sickness was usually seen as the possessing spirit, and we personified sicknesses as 710 00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:37.599 different demonic entities, and when we exercised them, well, we still do 711 00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:42.960 the same thing. We exercise to stay in shape. We also exercise to 712 00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:45.840 keep our minds and our mental states in shape so that we're not possessed by 713 00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:51.519 corrupting ideologies or ideas. Well, hopefully that's what we strive to do. 714 00:58:51.559 --> 00:58:58.119 That so demons are in a sense, their diseases, their temptations, their 715 00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:02.719 personifications of things, rather than physical entities. In the same way that we 716 00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:07.440 can see heaven and Hell as personifications of states of mind. So I don't 717 00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:14.320 think it's necessarily that there's all these different characters running around in some etheric realm. 718 00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:19.800 But I do think that, without sounding like a new ager, there 719 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:22.719 is a universal I guess stream, let's say, of consciousness. And I 720 00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:25.679 don't think that you can separate it and say that there's a billion or a 721 00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:30.320 trillion of this, or that it's an infinite stream of consciousness let's say, 722 00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:37.000 and we're all just individual segments of that or little pieces of that. How 723 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:44.519 many times have you read the law of one material right? Zero? I 724 00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:51.400 respect myself too much to red But there is some aspect of that. I 725 00:59:51.400 --> 00:59:54.840 think why that material is so popular because there's some aspect of that concept that 726 00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:00.960 is probably universally true. I mean, like the idea of animism. That's 727 01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:05.440 probably one of the oldest religious like beliefs or philosophies, that everything is animated 728 01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:08.079 with a spirit. I mean, if you you go, it doesn't matter 729 01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:14.320 where you look. If you look in like in the old Shamanic belief systems 730 01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:16.800 or the Shamanic cults or whatever you choose to call them, you know they 731 01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:24.519 kind of viewed everything as being I guess blessed with spirit. The animistic cults 732 01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:30.519 believed everything had spirit. Same thing. Again, I practice Shinto. Within 733 01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:34.679 Shintoism, there's kind of a universal idea, at least in Japan, there 734 01:00:34.719 --> 01:00:38.880 is everything is alive, everything has a spirit, you know, even ordinary 735 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:45.719 kitchen utensils have a spirit. So it's interesting as well for myself. So 736 01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:52.119 in the Gospel of Mark, if you study the book itself, it's it's 737 01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:59.800 interesting because that is the primary book that introduced demons prior to the Gospel of 738 01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:04.199 Jesus. Was not the one that we would think. But in the Gospel 739 01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:07.639 of Mark and every village in town that he went into, the first thing 740 01:01:07.719 --> 01:01:12.519 he did, before he even laid hands to heal the sick, he cast 741 01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:19.079 out the demons. And then we have the demonac at the Dicopolis, that 742 01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:22.000 where Jesus asked the man, He says, well who are you? And 743 01:01:22.039 --> 01:01:29.000 the demon said, we are legion, meaning and of course the story goes 744 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:32.400 on that then that demons came out of him and hit into a herd of 745 01:01:32.519 --> 01:01:39.119 swine, and they drowned themselves over the cliff. Lester Somraw's a guy I 746 01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:44.599 studied under in my youth. But it's very interesting because prior to that, 747 01:01:44.679 --> 01:01:49.920 in the Old Testament we had evil spirits. Saul was tormented by an evil 748 01:01:49.960 --> 01:01:55.400 spirit, and David would play the heart and soothe his temperament. And so 749 01:01:55.559 --> 01:02:02.039 again, the whole idea of demons within themselves a modern concept that we have 750 01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:07.960 now propagated to a whole structure of occultism. It's a whole structure of religious 751 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:14.559 belief within itself. Yeah, well call it. The Plancy's Dictionary in Ferland 752 01:02:14.599 --> 01:02:20.679 late eighteen hundreds really amplified that because it he depicted all the classical demons and 753 01:02:20.840 --> 01:02:23.079 other I mean, it's a it's a dictionary, it's a encyclopedia, and 754 01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:27.400 gave them book. By the way it is. I have a rare copy 755 01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:31.840 of it. It's beautiful, lucky one. You know. You know that 756 01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:35.000 book. So if anybody doesn't know that book, go try to find a 757 01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:37.239 copy of it. Just look at it online. Huge, beautiful book, 758 01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:40.719 very expensive, but all like a lot of the demons that we like that 759 01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:46.159 that that we see depicted today, A lot of them, or I'd say 760 01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:52.039 almost all of them are referenceable back to the Plancy's Dictionary. So that was 761 01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:57.760 in like what the late what was it the nineteenth century? That so nineteenth 762 01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:01.239 century. Yeah, a lot of them depict or just they're just like one 763 01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:05.440 hundred and one hundred and forty years old something like that. They're not that 764 01:03:05.559 --> 01:03:08.920 old, but like whatever we consider it, I mean, demon demons are 765 01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:14.679 They come from the word damon, which again is right, divine ones, 766 01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:16.840 right, which is part of you, which I think is where the idea 767 01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.280 of the little angel and the little Devil on the shoulder come from. It's 768 01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:24.000 really you. You have that angelet. And even Native Americans have this. 769 01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:27.920 I don't know which tribes, if all tribes do. A lot of Native 770 01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:30.800 tribes have this idea of the two wolves in whichever one you feed, which 771 01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:35.079 when you feed, is the one that wins and gets strong. It's the 772 01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:37.000 same thing. Do you feed the angel, listen to the angel, or 773 01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:39.800 do you feed the devil? Or if you watch that, if you have 774 01:03:39.880 --> 01:03:44.480 watched family guy Peter's got the devil on the shoulder or something's like where's the 775 01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:46.079 other guy? A great joke that goes with that. It's a cute little 776 01:03:46.119 --> 01:03:54.480 blond thing and then little prick. We'll keep this there. You ready, 777 01:03:55.760 --> 01:04:03.039 there is the angel on Peter's shoulder, stuck in trap. That's unbelievable. 778 01:04:09.159 --> 01:04:12.159 Always a good time on Riders show. That's all I got to say. 779 01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:18.599 Yeah, so we have this, Uh we've covered a lot uh here today 780 01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:21.280 covered I can't even see it in the rear view mirror. Any what are 781 01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:31.880 we talking about? Demons? Demons play a big role into Hell, because 782 01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:35.119 that's that's who's the tormentors, right, that's the whole idea. You get 783 01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:41.719 sent to Hell, you're going to be tormented by the demons. Right, 784 01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:48.719 Yeah, I just lost my train of thought on what reached me? Think, 785 01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:55.360 well, what do the angels do for you in heaven? The seventy 786 01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:58.599 two virgins, and you know, you get the idea, well, they're 787 01:04:58.599 --> 01:05:02.079 all a but also a family guy or something said they were all man. 788 01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:06.440 They just didn't know it. They were all like a bunch of nerds playing 789 01:05:06.440 --> 01:05:18.400 World of Warcraft or some family guys. One of my favorite family guy skits 790 01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:26.199 was whenever Peter goes and looks in the mirror and he's contacted by his one 791 01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:30.119 of his ancestors that was black, and he asked him what's heaven like? 792 01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:35.960 And then the ancestor says, well, there's a shortage of chairs. He 793 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:48.559 just disappears. But I've heard it said that demons give while angels take, 794 01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:57.280 which I think is a very interesting consolet that if you're if you want to 795 01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:00.880 tell the difference between an angel and a demon, you can tell by like 796 01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:03.960 what it's doing. If you're being given something, then it's by a demon. 797 01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:08.639 If something's being taken, then it's an angel. Which I think that 798 01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:13.920 the concept of angels and demons have been flipped. It's just like I think 799 01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:20.880 the concept of God and Satan or the devil or whatever personification you want to 800 01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:27.800 use, Lucifer has also been flipped. They're the opposites. Those are totally 801 01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:30.760 different characters, right, I mean, for heaven to be the opposite of 802 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:33.000 hell, heaven or vice versa, hell to be the opposite of heaven, 803 01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:36.440 we could look at it that way. Hell couldn't also be a pit of 804 01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:42.559 fire. Fire is light? Like you ask the most tale the Baptist missionaries 805 01:06:42.599 --> 01:06:47.679 that where's hell again? We're bringing the family and everyone else. Yeah, 806 01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:53.800 it's having the opposite, you know. The contrary is it's if you have 807 01:06:53.840 --> 01:06:57.679 a place of fire and light, that's not the opposite of a place of 808 01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:00.760 heat and light and beauty and hell. That doesn't make any sense. That's 809 01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:08.239 purely a creation. But suffering and feeling like anger creates heat. You can 810 01:07:08.280 --> 01:07:11.400 feel the heat when you get really angry. You can also feel the heat 811 01:07:11.440 --> 01:07:14.639 when you get really you know, you feel really in love. You say 812 01:07:14.679 --> 01:07:16.480 people are in heat or in animals in heat. It's the same kind of 813 01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:20.639 a thing. We look at God and we look at these different definitions and 814 01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:24.199 versions of God. Same thing with the devil. Like people say the devil, 815 01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:28.360 Lucifer, and Satan are all the same character, They're not. Satan 816 01:07:28.440 --> 01:07:32.119 is Hitan the adversary. You could interpret that as a necessary evil like Saturn 817 01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:39.159 or chronos chronology time time is a necessary evil, death and resurrection, death 818 01:07:39.199 --> 01:07:45.000 and rebirth. The accuser the devil, I mean, in simple terms, 819 01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:47.559 the devil would be the inversion of life. So l I ve live. 820 01:07:48.320 --> 01:07:53.679 Turn it around, it's evil at a D it's devil. Devil is d 821 01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:57.760 e v I L reverse that it's lived, to have lived. The opposite 822 01:07:57.760 --> 01:08:00.480 of to have lived is to die. That's evil. And then Lucifer is 823 01:08:00.519 --> 01:08:04.719 this false light. So in the same way that you know, anger can 824 01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:10.599 make you hot and love can make you hot. Both of those things are 825 01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:17.000 also I think exemplified in the concept of Lucifer, because Lucifer is false light, 826 01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:21.960 but there's also good light. In the same way, there's actually good 827 01:08:23.039 --> 01:08:26.640 and bad darkness. Like good darkness, you could say, is the abyss 828 01:08:26.680 --> 01:08:31.199 without the abyss or the beginning of everything when the spirit hovers over the waters 829 01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:35.680 in Genesis. You can't create light if there is no darkness, and Manly 830 01:08:35.720 --> 01:08:40.479 Hall argues that too. He talks about how there's a real darkness and a 831 01:08:40.479 --> 01:08:43.680 fake darkness, and a real light and a fake light. So when you 832 01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:45.840 start to look at it from that point of view, these are not all 833 01:08:45.920 --> 01:08:48.800 the same characters. These are totally different characters, and they're kind of like 834 01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:55.560 Heaven, Hell and Purgatory in a way because you have Satan who is kind 835 01:08:55.560 --> 01:08:58.800 of hot, you have the Devil who is kind of cold in that ice 836 01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:01.399 palace, and you have Lucifer, who's kind of lukewarm in between. It's 837 01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:05.600 a very similar, almost trinity like concept. I think that's just that's my 838 01:09:05.720 --> 01:09:11.800 view. Oh, even the Bible says that God, you know, Genesis 839 01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:16.640 one to one, came from darkness. There was no light. It spoke 840 01:09:16.720 --> 01:09:19.079 and it said, let there be light. I don't know who heard that, 841 01:09:19.279 --> 01:09:24.680 but anyway, so by that, the very logic is is that whatever 842 01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:29.600 this creative force was, it came from the void. The nothingness came from 843 01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:33.680 the void. That's right, and that darkness is kind of like the necessary 844 01:09:33.720 --> 01:09:39.000 evil to compare and contrast these things. I've also thought, this is my 845 01:09:39.119 --> 01:09:43.920 opinion, and I wrote a book on this recently called Garden of Hallucinations. 846 01:09:44.079 --> 01:09:47.359 I was thinking, you know, I've never done ayahuasca, but when I've 847 01:09:47.399 --> 01:09:50.520 listened to other people who have done ayahuasca, and I've looked at paintings from 848 01:09:50.560 --> 01:09:59.840 shamans, ayahuasca experiences sound really similar to Genesis. You're in a garden surrounded 849 01:09:59.840 --> 01:10:04.760 by all these creatures, and as snake, who's half woman in the tradition 850 01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:11.079 Lilith with the red hair, comes to you on a tree. And in 851 01:10:11.119 --> 01:10:15.359 the ayahuasca experience, you're usually in a garden. There's a lot of animals 852 01:10:15.359 --> 01:10:20.000 and snakes. It's very beautiful, and Mother Ayahuasca, who is half human 853 01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:26.119 half snake, comes and talks to you. And from Genesis to Revelation Saint 854 01:10:26.239 --> 01:10:30.239 John, there's a I mean, I've heard some people that I think would 855 01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:35.039 be considered pretty reputable sources, like scholars talk about the idea that John was 856 01:10:35.600 --> 01:10:39.720 maybe high on mushrooms when he wrote Revelation, right, there are a lot 857 01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:45.279 of Yeah, So from Genesis to Revelation, you've got like an ayahuasca experience. 858 01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:48.800 You've got like a amanita muscare mushroom experience. The Bible is very much 859 01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:53.159 like a shamanic journey in a way, whether that's you know, internal in 860 01:10:53.239 --> 01:10:57.439 you or an altered state of consciousness external of you or both. Isn't the 861 01:10:57.439 --> 01:11:02.079 snake people but naga half human half's right one of them? Yeah, it's 862 01:11:02.279 --> 01:11:05.880 India, I believe India. Yes, and you find them everywhere. They 863 01:11:05.960 --> 01:11:11.479 got like the dragon dragon people in China, the rainbow serpent in Australia. 864 01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:15.239 Yeah, even quits ocuadle is the plump serpent in in America, the plum, 865 01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:23.920 the plume serpent, the origins of America. And it's esoteric meaning you 866 01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:30.079 know, I could be off on that amoral like a mirror am. I 867 01:11:30.159 --> 01:11:41.439 think it is Native Americans, right cuco Kan Yeah, and they have the 868 01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:45.479 I mean they have the the adversary of quits. A quaddle is took to 869 01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:49.920 capta is the god of illusions, very much like Lucifer. It's so you 870 01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:55.399 have the same I mean, these concepts are universal. I think that we're 871 01:11:55.399 --> 01:12:00.640 dealing with Honestly, I think all this, these mythological narratives and all these 872 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:04.760 like the ancient magical practices, the ritual magic practices that some people still do 873 01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:09.560 today. I think a lot of it's just honestly psychology, like in the 874 01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:15.000 same way that you have like astrology, and then astronomy comes out of astrology 875 01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:19.600 alchemy, and then like biology and chemistry largely come out of more so chemistry 876 01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:25.479 comes at alchemy. You've got like magic, like ritual ceremonial magic, and 877 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:30.600 psychology kind of comes out of ceremonial magic because that's what like the magical tools 878 01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:34.960 like the wand and the sword represent your will, represents your mind that you 879 01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:39.479 know. The pinnacle is the body, you know, the cup or the 880 01:12:39.479 --> 01:12:45.199 cup is the pouring out of perhaps thought or consciousness. Different schools they assign 881 01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:49.239 those two different elements like firewater, air, and earth. But it's really 882 01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:56.279 just psychology. It's really it's a really and mythology itself is actually a form 883 01:12:56.319 --> 01:13:00.479 of science because you're trying to catalog and figure out why things happen the world 884 01:13:00.479 --> 01:13:03.000 and give names to them. Why does lightning come down from the heaven? 885 01:13:03.039 --> 01:13:05.640 Why does it rain? Why is their wind? Why are their floods? 886 01:13:05.640 --> 01:13:10.159 Why are their storms? You personify them, give them me. That's science. 887 01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:15.840 Quite interesting to talk, Beau. I have a ton of ghost hutting 888 01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:20.720 equipment, and one of my favorite ones is the SLS camera. And when 889 01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:25.920 you're walking in the woods, it's quite interesting if you think I've seen this. 890 01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:30.720 If you think something's going to scare you, you have this anticipating of 891 01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:35.119 fear. It seems to radiate and manifest exactly that which you are thinking. 892 01:13:35.920 --> 01:13:39.479 Whereas if you go in with the calmness and say, well, I'm going 893 01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:43.159 to speak with the spirits, it amazes me how I can pick them up 894 01:13:43.199 --> 01:13:49.000 on the camera. They become very proliferated within the trees themselves. But that's 895 01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:56.279 if you believe in ghosts. Yeah. I think there was a science experiment 896 01:13:56.319 --> 01:14:03.520 where a group of researchers actually created a ghost, like an agregoric ghost. 897 01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:08.600 They gave it a backstory and gave it a name, and like all the 898 01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:13.840 stuff and wild try and communicate with it, and then it would communicate back 899 01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:17.800 with them. It just shows you that your thoughts and your ideas and your 900 01:14:17.840 --> 01:14:23.119 beliefs create reality. Well, it says the children of Israel when they faced 901 01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:34.319 the Philistines that they created go them the excuse me these clay figures that are 902 01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:41.520 alive. I just forgot the word at the moment. What were the gollum 903 01:14:41.560 --> 01:14:47.520 thought forms like the thank you, the tulpas and the or Paracelsus had a 904 01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:51.920 weird name for them. I can't remember the name they were usually actually sometimes 905 01:14:51.960 --> 01:14:56.439 they were so I think Paracelsus, the alchemist and physician and some of the 906 01:14:56.479 --> 01:15:02.119 other old writers associated those like golams are tulpas or agrigors, which I think 907 01:15:02.199 --> 01:15:08.840 is French. They associated those with the elementals, and actually Jock Folet talks 908 01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:12.640 about them as being the little people, the little green men, which is 909 01:15:12.720 --> 01:15:15.000 part of the UFO narrative as well. I mean, and the sylths, 910 01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:19.479 which are the air spirits. I mean, they're basically like there's these creatures 911 01:15:19.520 --> 01:15:23.439 that can fly through the air. They abduct you into like the fairies, 912 01:15:23.479 --> 01:15:26.880 they take you to their world. So there's a correlation, without doubt between 913 01:15:27.039 --> 01:15:31.199 everything from the elementals, which are associated with modern elements, modern elements, 914 01:15:32.039 --> 01:15:35.439 carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, et cetera. And then all the 915 01:15:35.479 --> 01:15:42.159 you know in UFOs, all the way back to what's that you brought up 916 01:15:43.279 --> 01:15:47.760 just this article on our research group brought Philip the ghost to life, which 917 01:15:48.520 --> 01:15:51.880 which was what I was talking about, and they gave it a backstory, 918 01:15:53.760 --> 01:16:02.239 the fictional character and named it Philip, and they created this whole biography for 919 01:16:02.399 --> 01:16:09.479 this entity and this in this ghost, and then they started to communicate with 920 01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:15.520 him. So like when you're looking at that's an interesting story because when you 921 01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:18.560 perform ritual ceremonial magic, let's say, and you do something that's more black 922 01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:24.479 and you try to communicate with the demon or the devil and obtain something. 923 01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:29.640 I mean, ultimately you're you're doing this with yourself, which is why black 924 01:16:29.680 --> 01:16:33.680 magic can drive people mad and crazy. Like really dark you know, things 925 01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:38.359 where you're doing really bad stuff will help you can talk about necessarily, but 926 01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:42.239 like that kind of thing where you're asking for assistance or you're asking for something 927 01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:45.159 from some some other entity, you're really talking to yourself. And that's why 928 01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:48.760 you can drive yourself mad. That's why the demon in the myths or the 929 01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:53.279 stories, the demon will try to kill you and break the contract. It's 930 01:16:53.319 --> 01:16:57.000 really you driving yourself crazy. In the same way that when you see the 931 01:16:57.039 --> 01:17:01.119 death tarot card, that means that you might actuly. You might actually have 932 01:17:01.159 --> 01:17:04.119 a relationship that's ending, or you might have a job that's ending. Let's 933 01:17:04.159 --> 01:17:08.479 say you can interpret it that way. But if you worry so much about 934 01:17:08.520 --> 01:17:12.680 it, you might actually end up doing something that you wouldn't have done otherwise, 935 01:17:12.720 --> 01:17:15.520 and you might end up dying because you were so afraid that you saw 936 01:17:15.560 --> 01:17:19.319 the death tarot card. So if they can create a ghost and basically like 937 01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:23.640 they can manifest this thing, it's the same thing when you're talking about the 938 01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:26.600 spirit realm, or the demons or the angels, like these are things that 939 01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:30.520 we can septualize, personify, and if we see them in a particular way, 940 01:17:31.079 --> 01:17:34.920 then they can have an effect on us. That's what all the magical 941 01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:39.279 works all about. Anyway, you know something, Ryannie, you were saying 942 01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:44.199 that, it's exactly the same thing when I was in the ministry of Christianity. 943 01:17:44.800 --> 01:17:47.520 Isn't that what you pray to God for? You want God to answer 944 01:17:47.640 --> 01:17:53.359 your question, your prayer, your request, But there is an exchange that 945 01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:59.560 is required. If you're in the occult, even if you're into a religion, 946 01:18:00.159 --> 01:18:03.680 it's the same principle. I've told people this many times. My initiation 947 01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:12.239 into the occult was thirty years in Pentecostal Christianity, because within the charismatic Pentecostal 948 01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:17.439 movement there is more of what I would call occultism taking place in the ceremonies 949 01:18:17.840 --> 01:18:23.560 than I've seen in any black magic or any other occult practices that I've seen 950 01:18:23.880 --> 01:18:29.199 or read about. Let's tell people to go to a Catholic church. Well, 951 01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:31.800 I mean you think about communion is a blood covenant, It's a blood 952 01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:39.279 contract, the consumption of the flesh within itself. I mean the same thing 953 01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:43.119 when you put someone in the middle and you form a prayer circle around them, 954 01:18:43.359 --> 01:18:45.199 the same thing when you're going to lay hands on a person to receive 955 01:18:45.239 --> 01:18:49.479 the Holy Spirit or to cure them to bring forth healing. All of this 956 01:18:50.039 --> 01:18:57.800 is ritual magic. It totally is. I completely agree with you, and 957 01:18:57.800 --> 01:19:01.319 in fact, I went to church recently. I went to a couple of 958 01:19:01.359 --> 01:19:04.439 churches recently just to I haven't been a church as I was a kid, 959 01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:11.319 and they're the first on you or anything like that, not burst into flames 960 01:19:11.399 --> 01:19:15.479 or anything like that good. But the first day I was, the first 961 01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:17.119 night I went. I want going every week, but the first time I 962 01:19:17.119 --> 01:19:19.279 went, they were talking about the Witch of Indoor, which is like one 963 01:19:19.279 --> 01:19:23.439 of my favorite stories. But then the like I went the other night and 964 01:19:23.479 --> 01:19:29.399 they were talking about they were talking about marriage, but they had they I 965 01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:31.720 forget exactly what the pastor was saying, but as he was talking, I 966 01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:35.720 was thinking, like, this just sounds like magic. It just sounds like 967 01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:40.760 some ceremonial ritual thing that you're doing. But if you do it in a 968 01:19:40.840 --> 01:19:44.640 church setting, everybody's you know, shakes each other's hands and dresses nice, 969 01:19:44.680 --> 01:19:46.239 and they're like, no, this is for God. It's like, well, 970 01:19:46.239 --> 01:19:50.800 that's what you're doing, and it's ritual magic. You purify yourself the 971 01:19:50.840 --> 01:19:56.399 baptism, you clean yourself, you wear nice clothes, you light the incense 972 01:19:56.479 --> 01:20:00.960 and the oils the sophima gationation, and we pray to God, let let 973 01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:03.640 this, they say, Let this Bible study, you know, fill us 974 01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:08.600 with knowledge and wisdom from your great books. It's all this, we would 975 01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:12.479 say, and we invite the Holy Spirit to come in and take command of 976 01:20:12.520 --> 01:20:18.239 the meeting. Excuse me, I could put the you know whatever, Lucifer 977 01:20:18.239 --> 01:20:20.720 in the front of that, you know, but that's really and we, 978 01:20:20.880 --> 01:20:25.279 like you said, because it was in a church, it's completely legal. 979 01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:28.960 Yeah, so to speak. And actually when you say when they say the 980 01:20:29.039 --> 01:20:30.600 end of the pray or they say amen at the beginning to end, I 981 01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:39.760 always tack on raw. Yeah, and raw not a woman, but am 982 01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:43.279 a Monroe. See that's what always got me with Paul. You know, 983 01:20:43.359 --> 01:20:45.840 Paul wrote in the Book of Acton he was in Ephesus, which was the 984 01:20:45.880 --> 01:20:49.960 occult center of that time in that era. A lot of people don't know 985 01:20:50.079 --> 01:20:55.880 Ephesus was known for that. And it's always interested me because Paul comes in 986 01:20:55.960 --> 01:20:59.920 and he says, well, I saw your promenade where you had the different 987 01:21:00.119 --> 01:21:02.239 gods that he had, and then he had one that was dedicated to God 988 01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:05.960 that had no name, and he says, that's the God I serve. 989 01:21:08.439 --> 01:21:13.680 Now. He said that in fifty yards across the way was a synagogue, 990 01:21:14.359 --> 01:21:20.600 so Paul would have known the name of Jehovah. So who is this god? 991 01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:25.000 Again? I know it extends all the way into what I how the 992 01:21:25.039 --> 01:21:30.479 occult is so much or the religion is so much like the occult. I 993 01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:32.800 don't know if this is similar to what are relevant to what you brought up 994 01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:39.680 earlier, Wayne about how maybe the founders of Christianity in a sense like the 995 01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:45.159 founders of Islam. There's a similar origin because in this there's an esoteric story 996 01:21:45.199 --> 01:21:49.800 which you might be familiar with, the interpretation of Lucifer being cast down to 997 01:21:49.840 --> 01:21:54.479 earth or from the heavens down to the land below, and that is the 998 01:21:54.520 --> 01:22:00.960 moon God often depicted as or personified as Jehovah, casts the light because the 999 01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:03.840 moon is the reflector casts the light of Venus Lucifer down to the earth. 1000 01:22:04.239 --> 01:22:08.159 So it's really like a physical thing where the light of Venus is cast to 1001 01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:11.359 the earth by the moon god Jehovah, but as a moon god Jehovah. 1002 01:22:11.359 --> 01:22:15.239 That's I mean, the moon is the centerpiece of Islam. I mean they're 1003 01:22:15.319 --> 01:22:18.319 I mean Allah, which is Arabic for God. I mean it is a 1004 01:22:18.479 --> 01:22:24.399 moon based religion. So it is the Hebrew calendar. Yes, it's moon 1005 01:22:24.439 --> 01:22:27.760 based, and that's why they it's and in fact, if you go to 1006 01:22:28.239 --> 01:22:31.359 Temple Square in Salt Lake City, they have the sun too, but they 1007 01:22:31.359 --> 01:22:35.640 have a lot of moons simply they have all the phases of the moon carved 1008 01:22:35.680 --> 01:22:41.960 into the main temple which is oriented west to east. Yeah, I mean 1009 01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:46.760 moon worship is a is a primary foundational element within all of human history, 1010 01:22:46.840 --> 01:22:51.880 which it's from erb the you know, which the Abrahamic religion. He was 1011 01:22:51.920 --> 01:22:56.560 a Samarian, but that's what his family were. They worked at the temple 1012 01:22:56.640 --> 01:23:01.399 for the moon goddess yep, and the moon moon goddesses. Now you find 1013 01:23:01.439 --> 01:23:05.239 the moon goddess in in ancient Japan too, they worship the moon goddess. 1014 01:23:05.279 --> 01:23:12.880 I believe Suki Yomi, which is my name name, yeah, Yomi, 1015 01:23:13.159 --> 01:23:17.119 is the Japanese underworld. So here again you have Suki Yomi, I believe. 1016 01:23:17.159 --> 01:23:19.239 I'm a double check that to make sure that's right. But you have 1017 01:23:19.279 --> 01:23:25.399 Asuki Yomi. Uh who is the who is the moon goddess? And double 1018 01:23:25.479 --> 01:23:30.840 check the name, Yeah, Suku Suko or Suku Suku Yomi. So you 1019 01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:33.520 can extract the underworld out of the name for the moon goddess. And that's 1020 01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:38.199 really what the moon is. The moon is a reflector of light, so 1021 01:23:38.279 --> 01:23:41.960 it is the in a sense that you have the as above so below hermetic 1022 01:23:42.039 --> 01:23:45.199 axiom here too, I think because you have the moon, which is essentially 1023 01:23:45.239 --> 01:23:49.159 reflecting the light onto the underworld when the when the sun, the black sun 1024 01:23:49.760 --> 01:23:55.359 is you know, goes into the underworld like Ross Chariot in the West, 1025 01:23:55.800 --> 01:23:58.720 and there's darkness upon the Earth, and all we get is that the reflection 1026 01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:01.359 of the moon. So the moon like the Sun. I mean, it's 1027 01:24:01.359 --> 01:24:06.319 not just sun worship, it's moon worship. And I think that gets overlooked 1028 01:24:06.359 --> 01:24:13.960 quite a bit. I smell a rat, yeah, And I think another 1029 01:24:13.960 --> 01:24:16.279 thing is like if you if you extract the name YopE me out of moon 1030 01:24:16.319 --> 01:24:21.920 goddess in Japan, it shows you that the moon is intimately associated with darkness 1031 01:24:21.920 --> 01:24:27.600 and with the underworld. That's and false light because it's the moon that casts 1032 01:24:28.079 --> 01:24:31.000 Venus or Lucifer down to the Earth. Didn't you see the black moon during 1033 01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:36.720 the eclypse Ryan? You mean the double moon in the double sun. Yeah. 1034 01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:41.239 I was talking to somebody. I was talking to somebody at my apartment 1035 01:24:41.319 --> 01:24:45.000 complex that when this was happening, and they said, they said, I'm 1036 01:24:45.039 --> 01:24:47.119 trying to find the moon and I said, well, it's some pretty sure 1037 01:24:47.119 --> 01:24:48.840 it's right there. And they said, no, no, no, they 1038 01:24:48.840 --> 01:24:51.279 said that's not the moon. They said there's another moon. I said, 1039 01:24:53.119 --> 01:24:56.279 I was like, I don't I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. 1040 01:24:56.279 --> 01:24:58.640 They said, well, no, they I read someone online they said 1041 01:24:58.640 --> 01:25:01.920 that there's another there's like multiple planets, it's happening right now, and there's 1042 01:25:01.960 --> 01:25:04.319 like a fake moon. And I was like, what are you reading? 1043 01:25:04.359 --> 01:25:11.039 What are you talking? A bro? Well, that's probably what they were 1044 01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:16.039 getting at. Yeah, the super planet. Did you see people cutting these 1045 01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:20.239 videos? I'm sure you saw this writer where people like filming the eclipse or 1046 01:25:20.279 --> 01:25:26.399 something and then like the video clearly cuts, and then they have a they 1047 01:25:26.439 --> 01:25:29.279 have like the video of the moon. They're like, well, how's the 1048 01:25:29.319 --> 01:25:30.880 moon over there if it's supposed to be over here? And it's like they 1049 01:25:30.920 --> 01:25:34.359 clearly just cut these two videos together. They got like a million hits on 1050 01:25:34.760 --> 01:25:40.279 Youtubeer, all we all we have to do is lie, I guess, 1051 01:25:41.600 --> 01:25:44.640 just bring a little fear into it and get a little bit of the occult, 1052 01:25:44.720 --> 01:25:46.520 little bit of religion. You gotta. You got a best seller, 1053 01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:51.760 and if you don't believe me, you're going to hell. That's the way 1054 01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:58.239 it works. That's why I'm not as popular as I should be. Guys, 1055 01:25:58.920 --> 01:26:00.640 I can ask you both a question real quick. If you had to 1056 01:26:00.680 --> 01:26:05.680 define your philosopher lane, like what religion, philosophy? Like, what's your 1057 01:26:05.680 --> 01:26:10.479 outlook on life? Like I do practice Shinto. I think it's beautiful. 1058 01:26:10.800 --> 01:26:15.159 I'm not. It's not a dogma though, Like what do you guys practice? 1059 01:26:15.159 --> 01:26:16.720 Do you think? Do you have? Do you have an identification of 1060 01:26:16.760 --> 01:26:26.319 classification for yourself? Either of you? For myself? It's like Aristotle said, 1061 01:26:26.319 --> 01:26:30.039 I I realized that the one constant in my life is I don't know 1062 01:26:30.119 --> 01:26:36.119 anything. I have always been a person who gives praise and gratitude, and 1063 01:26:36.640 --> 01:26:41.479 as I have evolved, I don't know if you want to use that word, 1064 01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:45.760 it's probably as good as word as any. I give praise to the 1065 01:26:45.760 --> 01:26:49.640 one who created my consciousness. I don't know who or what that is, 1066 01:26:50.399 --> 01:26:55.079 but I do know it exists. I can't give it definition, but I 1067 01:26:55.119 --> 01:26:59.760 sing to it. I give gratitude and praise and thanksgiving for it, because 1068 01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:02.920 if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be who I am. So that's 1069 01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:06.359 kind of where I'm at. Okay, what about you, writer? And 1070 01:27:06.399 --> 01:27:09.880 then I know you get to wrap it up. I was just curious about 1071 01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:16.199 this. Well, every time that I think that I one hundred percent for 1072 01:27:16.319 --> 01:27:24.439 a fact know something something. Later on in the future comes out and makes 1073 01:27:24.479 --> 01:27:32.239 me reevaluate my beliefs. So it's always a it's a changing it's an ever 1074 01:27:32.359 --> 01:27:38.600 changing thing and I and I think that's the beauty of it. The beauty 1075 01:27:38.640 --> 01:27:45.359 of it is that we can have these kinds of theosophical discussions and maybe change 1076 01:27:45.439 --> 01:27:48.800 our ideas and our beliefs and our views. I think that that's what makes 1077 01:27:49.239 --> 01:27:56.560 us so special here. And anybody that is locked into a strict dogma that 1078 01:27:56.680 --> 01:28:03.039 does not allow criticism, does not allow outside thoughts and ideas, in my 1079 01:28:03.159 --> 01:28:06.920 personal view, is the wrong way to go. I think that we should 1080 01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:15.479 always be open to different thoughts, ideas and beliefs and not be able to 1081 01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:21.680 and be able to change and edit our own personal thoughts, ideas and believes 1082 01:28:21.720 --> 01:28:30.319 when presented with new information. That's why people I never lie. I change 1083 01:28:30.319 --> 01:28:34.319 my mind a lot, but I never lie. I mean, all you 1084 01:28:34.319 --> 01:28:39.520 can work with is the knowledge that you have at the time, and once 1085 01:28:39.560 --> 01:28:45.279 we gain more knowledge, our ideas and thoughts and beliefs inevitably change, and 1086 01:28:45.319 --> 01:28:51.199 they should change. That's a part of the evolving nature of reality here. 1087 01:28:53.399 --> 01:28:57.039 I agree they should change. It's probably not good to be stuck in stuck 1088 01:28:57.079 --> 01:29:00.720 in ways, especially when it's some sort of dogma or doctrine that you're trying 1089 01:29:01.159 --> 01:29:05.880 constantly to defend. You find that's really hard to the date or converse with 1090 01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:11.399 people that do have that, because they're trying to defend their stance and when 1091 01:29:11.399 --> 01:29:15.000 you're not really even attacking it, nor are you presenting your own. Really, 1092 01:29:15.399 --> 01:29:17.920 I think some people have a hard time dealing with that. But maybe 1093 01:29:17.920 --> 01:29:20.800 before we go, Rider and I are going to be at the contact and 1094 01:29:20.880 --> 01:29:26.800 the Desert Conference, we should mention that again, that's coming up soon end 1095 01:29:26.800 --> 01:29:34.640 of May. Yeah, how can people get a hold of you to contribute 1096 01:29:34.680 --> 01:29:39.800 to that fund? Ryan? Yeah, we're actually I think we pretty much 1097 01:29:39.800 --> 01:29:43.640 made a most We're only like fifty bucks away or something. But you want 1098 01:29:43.640 --> 01:29:46.119 to find my content. Rdigable at yahoo dot com is my email if you 1099 01:29:46.159 --> 01:29:50.359 want to contact me. But the Secret Teachings like you see above here at 1100 01:29:50.399 --> 01:29:58.119 the Teachings dot info is my antiquated website, and there's an inbed player for 1101 01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:01.319 the free show archive. Uh, there's an RSS feed. And then of 1102 01:30:01.359 --> 01:30:05.880 course if you're interested in my books, a cult Arcana would probably be a 1103 01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:12.560 book you'd really enjoy, h that I think would be really in line with 1104 01:30:12.600 --> 01:30:15.960 what we talked about that I actually have a chapter on Heaven Helen Purgatory in 1105 01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:19.479 that book. So that's at the Secret Teachings dot info cult Arcana. Thanks 1106 01:30:19.520 --> 01:30:23.319 for having me on writer. Don't you love that? Ryan? Whenever I 1107 01:30:23.479 --> 01:30:27.159 just come up with something and don't even know that you've written about it and 1108 01:30:27.319 --> 01:30:30.800 we just have a conversation on it, It's beautiful. It happens all the 1109 01:30:30.840 --> 01:30:35.640 time. I love it. That stars that's we're connected. Thanks so much 1110 01:30:35.680 --> 01:30:39.640 for coming on. Ryan. Really appreciate you. Wayne. Where can people 1111 01:30:39.680 --> 01:30:43.640 find you online? Just over YouTube? Are Wayne Steiger? And thank you 1112 01:30:43.760 --> 01:30:47.600 Ryan. I'm gonna be adding to my library. I think you'd really really 1113 01:30:47.720 --> 01:30:50.760 enjoy it. We should actually do a show sometime of Life Too, Love 1114 01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:56.119 Too and our writer' I'm sorry, go ahead, no, go ahead. 1115 01:30:56.960 --> 01:31:00.319 That's I'm not actually a star seed. I'm more involved than I'm a star 1116 01:31:00.479 --> 01:31:04.239 sprout. My seat has sprouted, so I'm a stage ahead of you. 1117 01:31:05.159 --> 01:31:10.199 Well, I might have missaid I think I'm a star butterfly. Oh my 1118 01:31:10.239 --> 01:31:14.720 god, I'm evolved past that, not a monarch, right, because that's 1119 01:31:14.760 --> 01:31:20.039 mind people that the star then out of the butterfly. I turned into a 1120 01:31:20.079 --> 01:31:27.239 Star moth Man. Star moth Man. Well, thanks so much everyone for 1121 01:31:27.279 --> 01:31:29.960 being here. I really appreciate you guys, everyone in the chat and you 1122 01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:34.560 have the channel members and moderators out there. Nina, thanks for being here, 1123 01:31:34.600 --> 01:31:39.119 Lori, Scottie Boy, Candace, good to see you, guys, 1124 01:31:39.520 --> 01:31:45.560 Lost in Space, Deborah Silent Voice, and anybody else that contributed to the 1125 01:31:45.600 --> 01:31:48.079 chat. Please be sure to hit the thumbs up button to help the channel 1126 01:31:48.159 --> 01:31:53.600 and algorithm share subscribe. Hit the bell icon as well for notifications, and 1127 01:31:53.680 --> 01:32:05.479 we will see you guys next time. Thanks everyone,