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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and
violence, and is not intended for all

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audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
She was pleading with me to sash her

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throat, Sasha rest do something,
and I told her, no, I

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can't do that to you. Good
morning, good afternoon. How you doing.

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If you're the type of person that
usually skips the intro, you may

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not want to do it this time
because we have some very important messages about

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the future of Sword and Scale.
By the way, that's what you're listening

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to. And this is season eleven, episode two hundred and fifty seven.

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Here we go. Okay, so
this is kind of important. We're launching

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our new website and app soon.
If you're a Plus member and you're listening

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to this on an RSS feed,
that feed will no longer work after this

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episode. We're getting rid of RSS
feeds for a number of reasons. Now.

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RSS feeds are great for freely distributing
audio, but they're not really made

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for and really weren't intended for,
premium, paywall protected content. Unfortunately,

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they make it easy to pirate our
content. Not to mention the fact that

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podcast apps usually profit off of splashing
a bunch of ads over content you've already

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paid for anyway, So we want
to curate that experience and bring it to

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you all in one place in this
beautiful new website and app. Oh and

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there's also a sort of Scale TV
which is debuting soon on it. So

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look, we've spent over a year
working to bring true crime fans this incredible

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00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,360
new community, and we want you
to be part of it. So make

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sure to head on over to Swordinscale
dot com and download our new app when

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it becomes available, and become a
sasshole, make your friends jealous, be

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better than everybody else. Puff your
chest a little bit. There you go.

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You ever hear that term cut the
apron strings. It's a phrase that

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encapsulates the idea of letting go.
Every parent is aware of this idea.

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I think it's part of life,
allowing your children to grow up and become

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independent individuals, hoping you made all
the right choices and hoping they'll do the

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same, much like a mother bird
pushes her fledglings out of the nest and

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onto the brave new world, encouraging
them to learn to fly on their own.

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Cutting the apron strings symbolizes the moment
when parents must release their tight grip

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on their children's lives. It's a
significant transition from a state of dependency to

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complete independence, from childhood to adulthood. If you would argue against allowing kids

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to become independent and venture out on
their own as they grow and mature,

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it's a vital part of their development. It's necessary. This little push from

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parents often creates young adults with solid
self reliance, responsibility, and the ability

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to make choices and base the consequences
of them. It's a natural progression,

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but it's worth acknowledging that sometimes this
journey doesn't always end in a picture perfect

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way. Parents are often forced to
sit back and watch as their children make

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the same mistakes over and over again. Trust me, I was one of

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them. My poor mom. That
woman's a saint. It's not always the

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best thing for parents to swoop in
and rescue their children from every emergency that

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they may find themselves in. But
sitting back to watch it all unfold,

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knowing you just can't help, there's
nothing you can do, it can be

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heart wrenching. Many parents watch their
children in the throes of addiction, for

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example, knowing that their child must
hit rock bottom before they finally decide to

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make a change in their lives.
All parents can do is sit back and

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wait for this to eventually happen.
Now, the story we're about to get

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into isn't about drugs or addiction,
but it's about a family who was forced

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to watch their child continue to make
dangerous decisions with no regard for the consequences.

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This story, like many others,
does not have a happy ending.

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Sue Tayner was nervous about her twenty
year old daughter, Jessica Sacko, living

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on her own. Jessica wasn't moving
out of her family home for the first

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time, but she was moving back
from Urbana, Ohio, after a relationship

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in Florida took a bad turn.
It was the start of twenty eleven,

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and after returning from Florida, Jessica
would be moving into her own apartment,

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a duplex. Her mom, Sue
agreed to help pay rent a mere three

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hundred and sixty dollars a month for
the unit. Urbana is about forty miles

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west of Columbus. It's a small
town with a little over eleven thousand residents.

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Jessica's new apartment was in a small
cream colored building. Two doors sat

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side by side for each of the
two separate tenants. The ripe bold age

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of twenty may seem a bit old
to be worried about sending your kid out

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into the world, but Jessica was
medicated her bipolar disorder and had extremely low

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self esteem. These things, paired
with her naive outlook on life and her

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lack of experience, could result in
disaster if Sue didn't keep an eye on

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her daughter. After all, their
relationship was already on a treacherous footing due

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to Jessica's mental illness. Jessica had
already showed own her repeated poor choices and

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friends and in men, but Sue
didn't want to push Jessica away even further.

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Sue didn't want to be bugging her
all the time or sharing too many

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opinions about how she thought Jessica would
be living her life, so she towed

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a careful line. Soon after Jessica
got settled into her new one bedroom unit,

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she began seeking out new friends,
but because of her lower social latitude,

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Jessica found it easiest to make new
friends through Facebook. Her profile read

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this, I'm very outgoing and sweet, kind hearted, caring, passionate,

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compassionate, and I love learning new
things. I love animals and going to

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the beach and taking a walk.
I like cooking good and delicious meals.

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In my spare time, I like
to read, write down my thoughts and

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my poetry. I love playing video
games and doing puzzles. I'm also family

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oriented. I love kids, and
I love helping others. Maybe in an

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open year to people is what makes
me a good person. I'm an understanding

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person as well, and try to
help solve problems. I'm talented and intelligent

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too. I do not take bullshit, and no drama or whining. You

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cross me, you will wish you
never did. If you don't, you're

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good. Well that escalated quickly.
Jessica's grade school and high school friends recall

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that Jessica was bullied a lot,
but she was too shy to stand up

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for herself. Now that she was
an adult and she had the Internet and

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social media at her disposal, she
could create a facade of confidence and strength,

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because we all know that that's what
social media does for us. Right

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At first, Jessica tried several dating
sites, but nothing really panned out,

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so she began putting more and more
of her time and energy into Facebook.

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Soon enough, Jessica connect with a
young man named Matthew Puccio. Matthew was

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a twenty four year old dude who
lived in Texas and was a self proclaimed

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juggalow. Now these folks, we've
talked about them before in other episodes.

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You may have heard of them,
but just to give you another rundown.

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The term juggalo or Juggallette for women
is used to describe the dedicated inner fan

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club of the hardcore hip hop group
called Insane Clown Posse or ICP for short.

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They perform what is called horror core, a form of hip hop that

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includes themes of the supernatural, occult, and psychological horror in their lyrics.

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Think music for Jerry Springer fans.
Here's Matthew's childhood friend, a guy named

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Andrew Forney, also a self proclaimed
juggalaw. I was born here. Mister

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Fritchier was born in Montana, moved
there when he was about five years old.

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I met him when his family started
going to the church that I was

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going to, and then we were
in elementary school together as well. Before

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they reached middle school, matt moved
away and he and Andrew lost contact until

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about twenty ten. I was filled
in on a story later on. I

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did not know where he went at
the time that he left. What I've

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been told is that he moved to
Banning, California, lived with his dad

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and stepmother for a little while.
He said that after he lived with them

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for a little while, he ended
up getting moved into a group home until

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he was eighteen. He claims some
incarceration during that period of time as well.

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After he turned eighteen, his brother, who was in the Air Force,

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moved him out to Virginia and he
lived there for several years, and

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she's moved around a few more times
since then. Matthew had been shuffled around

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all his life and continued those nomadic
tendencies into adulthood. Just like Jessica's tone

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shifting Facebook bio, Matt's bio said
this, I believe in God, Shanngry

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Law, and the Dark Carnival.
I am a proud father of four wonderful

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kids. I may not open up
right away with people because they usually don't

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ask the right questions. My life
is an open book, but I don't

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mention my life story unless it's a
person in need or fam that needs help

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keeping their hatchet high. I'm a
thirteen year old wicked clown who takes the

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psychopathic views, beliefs, and music
very seriously, and if you don't like

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it, then you can fuck off. I'm honest and blunt, but very

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true to the woman I love.
I don't play petty high school bullshit.

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So if you expect sympathy over some
dumb shit, you may not get it

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from me unless I know you well
enough to swing a hatchet for whoop whoop

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mmf w K cl which, in
case you're wondering, stands for much motherfucking

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wicked clown love. Yeah, that's
what we're dealing with, folks. And

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about that, uh whoop woop yeah, help me out brother woop woo to

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marry Yeah, that's the Juggalo mating
call. I guess we can't really be

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sure. It's really confusing. We
should get David Attenborough in here to explain.

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By the way, Jessica was enthralled. The two quickly connected over bands

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like Corn Cross, Fade, and
of course, insane clown Posse, who

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once again do not understand how magnets
work. I'm not kidding, look it

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up anyway. Jessica clearly an emotionally
immature person quickly took the honorable role as

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Juggallette and began referring to Matt as
her Juggalow husband. The clip you're about

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00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,799
to hear isn't Jessica herself, but
a young woman from the exact same time

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period in which Jessica was becoming involved
in the Juggalo subculture. As far as

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it goes, first, all you
know my opinion on what diyoglou let minghoos,

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thumbwall collar and someone who don't give
a book, you know, so

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you know, people who are kind
of outpassed, never really got along with

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them, but they don't really care. A big family browcast before it is

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in case you couldn't understand her,
she said that ICP is basically a big

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family for outcasts. Just a few
months after Jessica began talking with Matt Puccio

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online, he made a trip from
Texas to visit her in Urbana, Ohio.

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The two hit it off romantically suddenly
on Facebook, Jessica was a lifelong

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Juggallette and Matthew was her Juggalo husband. It was official Facebook official when fall

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was turning to winter of twenty eleven, Jessica's family noticed a shift in the

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way she was interacting with people online. Because Jessica was the kind of person

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who posted her every thought and feeling
on Facebook, it was easy to see

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00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:56,279
when something was awry in her life. Just a year prior, in twenty

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ten, Jessica's Facebook posts were of
statuses like this, My life was so

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bad back in the days when I
was young and stupid, restless. Now

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I live for God, and as
I turned my life around, I think

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of how I was back in the
day, and I thank God my sister

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and my brother in law and Jake
and Leah for being there for me through

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thick and thin. Thanks guys,
love you all. But by the time

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the holiday season of twenty eleven rolled
around and Jessica was in the throes of

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her new relationship with Matt Puccio,
her statuses and comments began to look more

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like this, Today was a pretty
fucked up day. A good friend of

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mine was a whore and tried stealing
my fiance, but him and I took

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care of the drama and told her
to lose our numbers and excuse my language,

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but I'm still mad at her.
But it is what it is.

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And it's just petty that she is. Misty is a whore and needs to

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mind her own damn business, and
she needs to die and keep to herself

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and quit causing drama. Anyways,
I'm happy and she ain't, so woop

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00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:57,519
woop. The very next status said, well, my days just keep getting

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more complicated to explain, and yesterday, the day before that really caught me

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00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:04,440
off guard. So last night I
bought a bottle of good wine and a

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couple of beers and got drunk at
home, and my life was peachy keen.

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So all I can do is just
say wow and fuck my life?

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What should I do? God?
Please help me overcome my fears, and

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please tell me what to do.
I need you right now more than my

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own kid and everybody else. Please
forgive me whoop to all my lows and

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lets. Given that she was basically
pretending to be married, using online slurs

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and publicly wishing people dead, Jessica's
mother began to suspect that she may be

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off her medication, you think,
and to make matters worse, she had

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a sneaking suspicion someone was living with
her daughter. This was not part of

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00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,759
their agreement. When Sue originally told
jess she would help pay rent and get

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00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:56,279
her on her feet. When Sue
drove over to Jessica's house to confront her

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one day, when altercation ensued.
Apparently Matthew, also bipolar surprise Surprise,

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had convinced Jessica to get off of
her medication. At the end of their

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screaming match, Sue asked Jessica if
this is what she truly wanted, and

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Jessica said yes, so Sue left
disappointed. If Jessica wanted to be on

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her own with this quickly boiling pot
of problems, then so be it.

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Twenty one year old Jessica Sacho had
recently secured her own one bedroom apartment in

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Urbana, Ohio with the help of
her mother, suit tainer. Jessica was

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trying to get back on her feet
after a messy breakup and had to struggle

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her whole life to choose and keep
good friends and boyfriends. Jessica was medicated

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for bipolar disorder, and her mother
knew how she could get if she went

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off her meds, so it was
important for Sue to keep an eye on

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her adult daughter. By the holidays
of twenty eleven, Sue had begun to

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distance herself from Jessica after confronting her
at her apartment holed up with Matt.

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During that visit, not only did
she confirm that Jessica now had a roommate,

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but she was calling this guy her
husband and he had convinced her to

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get off her bipolar medication. Fast
forward to Thursday, March twenty ninth,

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twenty twelve, Sue had become very
concerned about her daughter after realizing she hadn't

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heard from her in seven days.
When Sue went to Jessica's Facebook page,

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she saw that jess hadn't posted a
status since March twenty second, exactly seven

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days prior. The most recent statuses
on Jessica's timeline were alarming, to say

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the least. On March nineteenth,
she wrote this, tired, frustrated,

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feeling like shit, crying and feeling
like I'm not worth anyone's time. All

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I'm doing is just digging myself a
hole and I need to get out of

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it quick, So I need to
focus more. But all what I'm dealing

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with and going through isn't helping none. So time to get rid of things,

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stress, anger, frustration, etc. Were walks and exercise The most

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recent status on March twenty second read
pissed off beyond belief, but yet I'm

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super calm. That's when I'm in
a very snappy and dangerous mood. This

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is when I need a bottle of
wine and a hug and a girlfriend to

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spend time with. Board Send me
your best bottle of red wine, smiley

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face. Sue decided to drive over
to Jessica's apartment and make sure everything was

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okay. When she got there,
no one answered the door. It was

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locked, so she let herself in
with the spare key. I mean,

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she had paid for it after all. As soon as she pushed the door

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open, a decaying stench hit her
like a brick wall, assaulting her lungs.

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As the outside light hit the dark
and dank apartment, Sue could see

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the disaster inside. Flies buzzed all
around the room. Maggot's rawled on crusty

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00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:08,359
food, stuck on dirty dishes.
The carpet was stained and crummy. Disposable

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00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:15,200
cups and bottles were toppled over every
surface. Boxes, a lamp, but

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TV and other clutter was pushed into
the far right corner of the room.

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It was just an absolute train wreck
of course, this scene also included the

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obligatory mountain dew bottle. You'll always
find one of those around when there's a

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juggalos. Sue made her way through
the debris, covering her nose and looking

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for her daughter, but it was
pretty obvious that no one was home.

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Sue came upon the bathroom door,
tried to open it and found it locked.

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She looked through the crack under the
door to see if anyone was in

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the bathroom, but it looked empty. She left. It wasn't until the

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00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:08,680
next day that Jessica's landlord went inside
and got the bathroom door open. Well,

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it turns out that Jessica was inside. After all, she'd been in

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the bathtub, something that Sue would
not have been able to see from her

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vantage point. Jessica was dead,
and she had been murdered in a most

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00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,839
gruesome way. Shocking revelations about a
gruesome murder in Urbana where a woman was

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dismembered. Now five people were arrested, and our Jessica Heffner spoke with a

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woman who said she took some of
those suspects in, claiming the killing was

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in self defense. She's now alive
with us with more Jessica Well John Paul.

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We're still waiting for three of the
people accused in this Urbana murder to

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be brought back to Champagne County,
but talking with one of the accused friends,

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she said the victim's ex boyfriend killed
a woman to protect himself, and

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two of his friends were apprehended in
Hamilton Walling Court. Today. I met

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00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:07,000
with a friend who said the three
stayed with her before being arrested. She

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00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,920
asked us to hide her identity,
but told me Puccio said he killed Raysaco

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in self defense because she plans to
kill him. She also told me why

242
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,400
he said he dismembered her body.
He just said that he did that just

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to making it where it couldn't really
be found, because you know, he

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00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,319
scared for his life. Like I
said, that boy wouldn't really even hurt

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00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,359
a fly. By checking the Facebook
pages of each of the accused, we

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learned that they're all members of the
Juggalo family. It's a hybrid gang.

247
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:40,279
The FBI has it has its ion
and as a woman and fellow member told

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us today at court, the ex
boyfriend of the victim was believed she wanted

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him dead, so he acted first. Police say. Jessica Raysaco had been

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dead for eight days when they found
her dismembered body in a bathtub in Urbana.

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Police moved quickly collecting evidence and arrested
five people the next day. By

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looking at the victims on Facebook page. On the day of her death,

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she said she was angry but calm. We also learned she considered herself a

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member of the Juggalos, a rapidly
growing gang according to the FBI. So

255
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,119
was her ex boyfriend Matthew Puccio and
four others accused of killing her. Maybe

256
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:21,200
he admitted to what he actually did. Yeah. Puccio was arrested in Hamilton

257
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,559
along with two others this weekend.
In court today, we spoke with his

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00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,000
friend, a fellow Juggalo named Linda. She didn't want us to show her

259
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:30,319
face, but said she allowed Puccio
to stay with her after the alleged murder.

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She told us Sacho threatened to kill
Puccio when they broke up, so

261
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,359
he decided to take her out first. That's why she says he shouldn't be

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00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:44,160
in jail. I think that they
should allow him to go. I mean

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00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,680
that boy, he wouldn't even hurt
a fly, you know. The only

264
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,319
reason why he did it was a
self defense. If I was said,

265
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,960
I would have probably done it too. Oh wow, there's a lot to

266
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:03,240
unpack there. The news anchor said
that five people were arrested for Jessica's murder.

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You may be wondering how on earth
police unraveled what actually happened here and

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00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:17,599
tracked down all five suspects so quickly. Well, let's rewind back to Jessica's

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falling out with her mother, Sue
toward the end of twenty eleven. Shortly

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00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:29,000
after Sue discovered Jessica was no longer
taking her bipolar medication, jess and Matt's

271
00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:37,160
blazing romance turned into a foursome.
Matt invited another couple in a similar scenario

272
00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:44,119
to move in. They were nomadic, living off of Social Security, disability

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00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:51,799
and or unemployment. You know us. Anyway, they needed a place to

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00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:59,640
stay. Oh and they were Juggalos
too. The man was Matt's longtime friend,

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00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,759
five year old Andrew Forney, bringing
with him his wife, twenty five

276
00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:10,599
year old Kansas. I've moved around
a few times myself. I left California

277
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:17,839
in two thousand and six. I
went to Galina, Kansas. I was

278
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,319
living there with my brother and grandmother. I moved to Hawaii in I believe

279
00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:27,359
it was November of two thousand and
six. I moved back to California in

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00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:36,000
October of two thousand and seven.
I lived in California until March of two

281
00:27:36,039 --> 00:27:40,960
thousand and eight, at which point
I moved back to Galina, Kansas and

282
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:47,039
lived with my brother for several months. I then moved into o Sage Beach,

283
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:52,279
Missouri. Lived there was back and
forth between there and my brother's house

284
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:59,839
for a little bit. I left
Missouri to move up to Michigan in June

285
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,880
of twenty ten. I lived up
in Michigan with my mother in law and

286
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:15,920
her husband until December of last year, at which moved in with Matts and

287
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:22,359
Chess. Remember this was a one
bedroom apartment. The front door opened up

288
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:29,200
to a small living room, the
kitchen was back toward the left with a

289
00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:33,279
hallway separating it from the living area, and the single bedroom was off to

290
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:40,319
the right hand side of the kitchen, next to the only bathroom. It's

291
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,920
hard to imagine Jessica willingly allowing all
of these people to move in to that

292
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:52,039
tiny little apartment. So at this
point Matt had moved in with jess Matt

293
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:56,839
hadn't seen his friend Andrew in about
a decade, and he had never met

294
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,920
Andrew's wife, Jessica had never met
either of them until they came down for

295
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,720
Thanksgiving of twenty eleven. Here's Candace
talking about the first time she and Andrew

296
00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:12,519
met Matt and jess in person.
It was just great Thanksgiving and we were

297
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:18,160
trying to figure out if we're lived
own her. I don't know who offered

298
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,279
it was mad or Chess at time, but all I know is that we

299
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:30,039
were going down there to see how
things would be. Did jess know that

300
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,920
these people weren't just visiting for Thanksgiving
but were scoping out or place to see

301
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,240
if it was a good place for
them to live. I don't know,

302
00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:45,200
but I'm guessing probably not. In
all likelihood it was Matt who offered Jessica's

303
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,559
apartment to the forties. What was
jess going to say? What was she

304
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:56,079
going to do? Andrew and Candace
were fellow Juggalos, They had nowhere to

305
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,640
go, and Matt probably used this
to guilt Jessica into saying, yes,

306
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:07,279
how could you possibly let your fellow
Jugglos and Juggallettes go hungry? And homeless.

307
00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:12,920
Jessica, you monster, you absolute
piece of trash. So anyway,

308
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,680
the first time Andrew Forney and his
wife Candace came down to Ohio to meet

309
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,960
Matt and Jess, they stayed for
a week, then they drove back up

310
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:29,559
to Michigan, grabbed all of their
stuff, and drove right back down to

311
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:36,440
Jess's apartment in Urbana, Ohio.
They just moved in, just like that.

312
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:44,599
It wasn't long before it became clear
that this many personalities stuffed into a

313
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:51,039
very very tiny space only a couple
hundred square feet in size, was not

314
00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:55,720
going to work at first to get
along. But then we started and them

315
00:30:55,799 --> 00:31:03,000
alive. But Jes smidt get along
very well. I try, I I

316
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:11,880
don't know what happened. So the
friendship side between you and Jess fell part

317
00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:17,240
once you guys moved back down here. How long hadn't been? How long

318
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,839
would you say you guys were friendly
until it started to earning back about I

319
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:29,640
think a week when we moved back
down. Okay, with four grown adults

320
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:36,680
living in a one bedroom apartment full
time with no jobs, things were bound

321
00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:41,759
to get a little bit tense.
The few bits and pieces you've heard thus

322
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:48,680
far are from Candace and Andrew's post
plea interviews. These interviews stipulate that you

323
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:55,559
must tell the truth or your plea
deal is off the table. Now we'll

324
00:31:55,599 --> 00:32:01,400
hear from everyone, just after police
found them using cell tower records hiding in

325
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:07,079
a home in Hamilton, Ohio.
This will be fun. Here's the man

326
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:14,759
we've all been waiting for. What
is Matthew put? I mean, is

327
00:32:14,759 --> 00:32:20,799
it Matthew or okay? M A
T t A, Okay, Matthew's William

328
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:30,920
start tours? Okay, start CC
Matthew star with two rs. By the

329
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:37,440
way, Puccio, what a name? How are you again? What's a

330
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:45,680
good address for you? I don't
know, it's just the wa in arena.

331
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,160
I was just putting Hamilton for now? Is it is the house where

332
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:58,839
you were at three eighteen North Lell
Street? So you you moved in there?

333
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,480
Yeah? And tell them the place
and situated. We got the other

334
00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:08,920
one again, well, I used
to have four of them divers me,

335
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,799
so I'm trying to get the felis
where's that at Texas? And then her

336
00:33:13,799 --> 00:33:19,799
really puts a team what happened there? She died of her but furr Artery

337
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:23,960
in the print and was he here
that happened? Do you know, Dad?

338
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:30,359
I would call that that's rough.
And then Jacob my son, his

339
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:37,720
mom shook him too hard and he's
dying from bleeding from the print. Where's

340
00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:44,880
he at Texas as well? It's
the same. Wow. So and all

341
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:51,519
that has been going on since this
sure a lot of stress high and it

342
00:33:51,599 --> 00:33:55,599
doesn't help to any of my medicine. What kind of ads take on a

343
00:33:55,799 --> 00:34:01,200
psychotics? How long they do that? Since I was fifteen? What's the

344
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:07,440
high trade? You completed at school? Two years of college? So you

345
00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:10,239
got fourteen years time? Where's your
college at the University of Phoenix? Accident

346
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:16,519
Brant, It's just deal online program, reige made in business administration. That's

347
00:34:16,559 --> 00:34:21,519
just what was happening. Okay,
And I'll say ID two right now.

348
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:24,599
I'm not sure I came in in
the middle list. All right. I

349
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,360
declare that the following statement is made
of my own pretty will, without anyone

350
00:34:29,519 --> 00:34:34,079
having promised me anything or offered out
to me any hope of reward. And

351
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:38,199
I maybe the statement without any fear
of physical harm, without anyone having offered

352
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,480
to do me any favor, and
without anyone promising me leniency. I've heard

353
00:34:43,519 --> 00:34:47,000
the stay that I am able to
read and write the English language and have

354
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:51,719
completed fourteen years of school. Now
I do feel from my life about this

355
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,199
from us my cousin, No,
no, no no, they're saying,

356
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,199
we're not faring going to kill you. Who's your who's your cousin? To

357
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:05,079
to tell them all field? What's
his name? What's wrong with him?

358
00:35:05,559 --> 00:35:08,079
He's the one who ordered me to
do all of this because there was a

359
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,239
text message that was sent to my
phone that was afforded from the jest putting

360
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,199
the head on me, and he
told me if I didn't do it,

361
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,840
he was gonna kill me. Why
would Why would you put it out of

362
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,760
here? You know he did it? Just it? Why would you just

363
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,840
put it hit out here? I
don't know. She so she was so

364
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:27,519
mad at me. She just wants
me dead, and she knows the people

365
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:30,559
to do it. Who is who
is the people? This year? I

366
00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:34,119
don't know? So how does your
how did your cousin find her about?

367
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:40,039
That? Makes your friends? We're
talking with him and they afforded him the

368
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:44,400
message, and then he afforded to
me, where's that? Where's few of

369
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,760
that? Sister? Right now?
He fled the country because of this.

370
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:53,480
Okay, all right, let me
and and and I don't know everything he

371
00:35:53,559 --> 00:35:57,719
talked about, but here's what we
just started hearing. As you're he just

372
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,920
like go to the next page or
when you think you're the last phase started

373
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:09,719
there. The cop is like,
okay, I smell bullshit right off the

374
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:15,920
bat. Matt was claiming he was
related to the quote godfather of the Italian

375
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:22,159
Mafia. Interviews with other members of
this rag tag household would eventually paint a

376
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,639
clearer picture of what was going on. A man named Christopher Wright and his

377
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:34,320
girlfriend, Sharon Cook were of particular
interest. Christopher was in his thirties,

378
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,280
and boy was he a talker.
What came as a shock to everyone in

379
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:44,840
the investigation was that Christopher and Sharon
had only just met the rest of the

380
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,280
gang a few days prior to Jessica's
murder. But they were there, and

381
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,239
they obviously helped to try to cover
it all up. Are you from New

382
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:04,119
Jersey? Yes? Okay, I
moved from Jersey to Ronald Okay, okay,

383
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,119
from originally from Jersey. I got
married him around and came to more

384
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,079
Snell and just I need three and
fifty to start the process in like two

385
00:37:14,119 --> 00:37:20,960
thousand. Wow for I guess lawyer's
fast. Yeah, cheaply smoked. All

386
00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:25,079
right, what's your full name?
Christopher Joseph Right? W rg st.

387
00:37:27,079 --> 00:37:29,079
Okay, here's what's going on.
I need to talk to you about this.

388
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,039
I figured that. Yeah, yeah, I got one thing to say.

389
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:36,679
I don't mind telling you what I
heard, what was done. I'm

390
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,639
just afraid for me and my girl. I get what I'm saying. You're

391
00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:44,199
afraid he's gonna come back yet.
Let's just put it this way. After

392
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,800
all this was done, he said
that was number two hundred and thirty six.

393
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,320
Okay, and that's I think that's
bullshit. But if you take somebody's

394
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,119
life that you still called loved with
love, what am i? He's locked

395
00:37:57,199 --> 00:37:59,880
up? All right? Well,
yeah, we get all I'm saying.

396
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:06,000
What am mine? Right? I'm
like, right, that's that's the only

397
00:38:06,079 --> 00:38:09,840
thing I don't mind helping. Well, he's got that right. He'll help

398
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:16,519
anyone out with anything, including dismembering
and disposing of a body. Like we're

399
00:38:16,599 --> 00:38:20,239
here. I just want to find
out your sight of it. I just

400
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,079
talked to your girlfriend. She told
me what happened. She's not rest or.

401
00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:28,079
I'm gonna am I going to be
arrested for this. I'm gonna tell

402
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:30,159
you this. Here's here I got. I gotta talk to you, and

403
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:32,039
then I gotta call him. I
got was going on. I don't know

404
00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:37,400
what else going on yet. Translation. Yes, you're going to be arrested

405
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,360
for this, but if we tell
you that, then you won't cooperate give

406
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,679
us the information we need to put
you away. So well much start from

407
00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:51,679
the beginning. Basically, we was
at the library. I met Andrew and

408
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:57,280
his wife Candice. We were talking. We're all we're all listen to v

409
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,599
so I haven't had to a ICP
on my arm. He says, so

410
00:39:02,679 --> 00:39:07,920
you're a job and I said,
we'll not like I listened to music.

411
00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:13,679
I like him. I want to
consider myself, but I guess because I

412
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,760
listened to what they considered it.
So we started talking. They said,

413
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,199
oh, Matt, you get along
just fine with He listens to ICP continuously.

414
00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:27,719
So they a library. Ah,
the library one place where people can

415
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:34,079
loiter and not get kicked out.
A masturbatorium for the homeless. This is

416
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:39,159
the spot Andrew Forney, his wife
Candace, and Matt usually went to trash

417
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:46,639
talk Jessica and come up with half
baked quote unquote business plans like growing tobacco,

418
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:52,159
rolling cigarettes and shipping them up to
New York where they could be sold

419
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:57,719
for a higher price. Real you
know, cutting edge genius shit. You

420
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,400
know. Anyway, by the time
Andrew and Candice moved into Justice apartment,

421
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:08,440
her and Matt's relationship already had problems. Once Matt's friends arrived, they kind

422
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:15,800
of ganged up on Jessica, deciding
collectively that she was annoying, even though

423
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:21,519
it was her place. They were
together, you know, before we got

424
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:28,840
there. They continued to be a
couple until early February. At that point

425
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,559
it started to be an on off
thing, and then by the end of

426
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,559
February it was just off. Did
just want you out of the apartment?

427
00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:47,199
Yes? And no. I mean
it was one of the weird situations where

428
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:54,920
we wanted to move out because the
strain of having a broken up couple in

429
00:40:54,960 --> 00:41:02,039
the house is hard on everyone.
They would argue a lot tempers with flair,

430
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,559
and it wasn't healthy for anyone.
I mean, emotionally speaking, it

431
00:41:07,679 --> 00:41:15,679
wasn't healthy for anyone. What were
they already to go about anything like thered

432
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:21,519
about money. Occasionally they would argue
about my wife and I being there,

433
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:24,840
but it was guests who invited us
to be there to begin with, and

434
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,719
then she changed her mind later on, at which point we didn't have any

435
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,440
place that we could go to when
we moved out of my mother in laws.

436
00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:39,039
It's actually her husband who owns the
house, and he had said,

437
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,119
when you guys moved out, that's
it, you know, moving back.

438
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,039
So if she had kicked us out
and we couldn't get an apartment or anything

439
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:52,719
local, we had nowhere to go
to. When did you meet Chris Wright?

440
00:41:52,840 --> 00:42:01,119
And sure, I'd say probably four
days before then. We met them

441
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:07,840
at the library in Ravana. You
who's at the library with you? Because

442
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:13,360
me and my wife were there and
we ran into Chris and Sharon. You

443
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,519
know the layout of the Urbana library, No I don't, but okay,

444
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:24,679
describe the computer room that soon closed
that has five computers in it. My

445
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,599
wife and I were in there,
Chris and Sharon came in. Chris saw

446
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,679
I was playing a particular Facebook game
that he also plays. He asked me

447
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:37,519
how I was doing so well in
it when he was having trouble. I

448
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:42,519
gave him some pointers. We started
talking and then I saw he had a

449
00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:47,199
tattoo on his arm that was an
insane clown posse related and I said,

450
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:52,239
hey, you listen to IZP.
He said, well yeah, we started

451
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,199
talking like that. We decided we
wanted to try to hang out with him,

452
00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:01,800
so we left the library and we
went back to the house there.

453
00:43:02,679 --> 00:43:06,880
You know, we told Matt that
we met this guy and you know,

454
00:43:07,079 --> 00:43:10,639
he likes ICP and all that stuff. And he's like, well, are

455
00:43:10,679 --> 00:43:14,119
they still there at the library,
And he said, yeah, they should

456
00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:17,000
be. They still had a good
hour left from the computers. So he

457
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:21,559
came with us. We drove back
to the library. They were just getting

458
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:28,280
ready to leave. We started talking
and yeah, so you talk with him

459
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,599
there, and then you guys went
and got Matt and then brought Matt back

460
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:35,119
to the library so that they can
meet. It's like, I can't remember

461
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:37,679
if the first time I went to
their place or if the first time I

462
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,000
went back to Jess's place, but
the first time we had them over was

463
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:52,280
when they met Jess. What did
they think of Jess? She was kind

464
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:57,039
of mixed reaction really at the one. On the one side, they say,

465
00:43:57,119 --> 00:44:01,679
well, she seems nice enough,
but there were certain mannerisms of hers

466
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:09,159
that got on their nerves. Jess
liked to get really close to people and

467
00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:14,360
touched them up without permission, like
a hand on the shoulder and stuff like

468
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,880
that. She ended up doing that
to Chris, like sitting next to him

469
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,280
with a hand on his shoulder and
was talking to him, and it got

470
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:30,039
Sharon upset. She you know,
didn't say anything right then, but when

471
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,199
when Jess went back into the bedroom, she said, Man, I hate

472
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,920
it when she does stuff like that. Here's Chris's recollection of the first time

473
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,559
they all met. I maybe like
half an hour later. I think they

474
00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:46,119
came by us and we wanted to
show them me met so I'll always hoped

475
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:49,400
to meet, you know, new
people. All made people let her.

476
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:52,679
So they came to the library and
said it an hour later, we just

477
00:44:52,760 --> 00:45:00,559
went and we met and he's telling
us that he's Sicilian, and they girl,

478
00:45:00,679 --> 00:45:04,199
Jessica, I'm trying. It's just
a lot of shit happens for a

479
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,000
week. Jessica and I didn't like
her, but I wouldn't put it,

480
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,159
you know what I mean. I
want to do nothing like that to my

481
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,079
worst end. I mean, I
got to like her. She just too

482
00:45:15,199 --> 00:45:17,920
touchy. My girl was upset about
because she always used to do this,

483
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,719
and I tell her she won't listen, but that would be no reason for

484
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:27,719
you know what I mean. Him
and her kept parting. He kept telling

485
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,840
her it was her apartment. But
he was talking about trying to start up

486
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:36,400
the family, like an Italian family
or whatever it was, and that he

487
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:43,199
wanted people in it, my girl, me Andrew Candace, you know,

488
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:49,400
to start it. And I was
like, I'm Italian. I had a

489
00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:52,320
choice way back then to be part
of it. He wanted me to be

490
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,599
his captain. I guess let me. He wanted to be the dome,

491
00:45:55,679 --> 00:46:00,280
which is bullshit? Or don't you
don't just get that. I don't know

492
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,280
if you know anything at the times, you work it way up, You

493
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,000
don't just make that's just like any
of these little so called chet gangs they

494
00:46:08,079 --> 00:46:12,239
have out of here, or you
had to work your way up. According

495
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,599
to the group, three or four
days passed and the five of them hung

496
00:46:16,679 --> 00:46:22,679
out at Jess's house and at the
library, all while talking about how annoying

497
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:28,159
they thought Jess was. What were
you guys saying about Jess at that time?

498
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,480
Well, we said, look,
this is Matt's x, it's her

499
00:46:35,559 --> 00:46:38,639
place. So she sets rules we
have to you know, live by them

500
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:44,440
basically, And we said that we
were trying to get our own place to

501
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,840
you know, be able to get
away to talk about how you wish she

502
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,760
wasn't around or your guys as light. That was the whole point of moving

503
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,400
away with we wouldn't have to deal
with her anymore. Well, I think

504
00:46:57,639 --> 00:47:06,840
more long lines of talk about river
or killing her at that time, possibly

505
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:14,519
in a joking manner, to carry
around a bial of like almond alu or

506
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:16,519
something like that on an extract that
you said that, you know, you

507
00:47:16,599 --> 00:47:20,800
could simply get rid of her by
putting that in her drink, and she

508
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:30,119
even Okay, so you said that
when I had actually had that for a

509
00:47:30,199 --> 00:47:32,920
couple of weeks and just never done
anything with it. Well understand that.

510
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:39,000
But you told you told Chris and
sharing that though, right, Yeah,

511
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,760
did you talk about that with Matt
too? I didn't tell him that I

512
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,679
had it. He knew that she
was allergic to on an extract. So

513
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:52,000
yeah, so you guys, you
know, sounds to me like maybe you

514
00:47:52,079 --> 00:48:00,719
guys had somewhat been contemplating some of
that up to that point. Definitely not

515
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:06,119
seriously, is it comment for someone
to carry all my extract that in their

516
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:09,639
pocket. No, no, it
is anyway, So you would agree with

517
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:14,960
this, that's not a common thing, okay. And if someone is potentially

518
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,440
allergic to something and there are comments
being made that you'd like to ever kill,

519
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,639
like to get rid of her,
liked to something like that, you

520
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:30,360
could see and then that person still
ends up debt. You could see where

521
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,400
we could be in a position to
think maybe there was some more discussions about

522
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:39,360
that. It's correct. Yeah,
But at the same time, Matt was

523
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,239
allergic to peanut butter. We had
peanut butter in the house all the time.

524
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,599
We had candies with peanut butter all
the time, and we joked at

525
00:48:45,679 --> 00:48:50,599
him whenever one of the person had
a racis. We'd say, hey,

526
00:48:50,679 --> 00:48:53,000
look it's chocolate death. But you
would laugh at it. But you didn't

527
00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:58,920
carry that around in your pocket,
and you would joke with him about it.

528
00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:01,679
You weren't joking with jests about having
many elements in your pocket and showing

529
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:06,960
her and how word Actually one time, yes, I did. We saw

530
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:12,840
a ball, you know what,
cheese ball. It was almond and something

531
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,519
else. She said she was allergic
too, and I said, hey,

532
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:17,960
look it's a little bottle of death. And she started laughing, and I

533
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:21,000
said, yeah. When I shood, I pulled the thing out of my

534
00:49:21,039 --> 00:49:22,119
pocket, said hey, look it's
a little bottle of death. And she

535
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:28,079
started laughing at her. Why would
you carry that around your pocket? I

536
00:49:28,159 --> 00:49:35,079
don't know, honestly, as a
joke. When did you start carrying it

537
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:40,719
around in your pocket? I can't
remember if it was late January or if

538
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,000
it was mid February. It was
it was right about the time they started

539
00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:52,840
to go on again off again.
I know that at that time I was

540
00:49:52,920 --> 00:50:00,760
really upset with her, And I'm
not exactly sure what Poochi himself said.

541
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:05,599
I know that he took Chris aside
and went Thomas Street and talked to him.

542
00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:12,440
I heard something to the extent of
where he was trying to see if

543
00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:17,119
maybe Chris could do something about it
as to take care of her. And

544
00:50:17,199 --> 00:50:22,039
what do you mean take care of
her? What do you mean to kill

545
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:28,679
her? Go a little bit more
into that. What do you mean besides

546
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:30,159
we understand what you mean to take
care of it? You said you had

547
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:36,280
heard something along What exactly did you
hear? Who was around that conversation?

548
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:42,960
I heard him say that he was
going to try to see Chris could kill

549
00:50:43,039 --> 00:50:50,280
her and so that he you know, as an initiation to his little moth

550
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:57,320
or family. What day would that
conversation have that made this The day after

551
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:01,920
that we first met Chris, So
Tuesday, the day of the actual murder,

552
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:08,599
nothing truly significant happened. The group
had just reached their limit with Jessica,

553
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:15,119
and Matt decided to do something about
it himself. The crew seemed totally

554
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:22,000
comfortable discussing the possibility of a murder, so if he did it and asked

555
00:51:22,039 --> 00:51:28,039
for forgiveness later, perhaps they'd be
willing to help him deal with the aftermath.

556
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,800
He knew this would be a multi
person job. Saw like whatever,

557
00:51:34,519 --> 00:51:38,480
So half the stuff he was saying
about that, I don't believe sometime.

558
00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:43,159
I don't think it was that night
that night and met him. We stayed

559
00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:46,800
a couple of nights there. We
slew them the floor. I don't know

560
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,239
exactly what. I can't tell you
what day that he called me in a

561
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,800
room he had a problem with her. I guess out back he understpd a

562
00:51:54,880 --> 00:52:02,079
message from Giovanni from Sicily as she
was trying to get him killed. Don't

563
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:05,559
out your it was I seen the
message on his home, but I don't

564
00:52:05,559 --> 00:52:09,679
know your what it was, basically
something that from an email. It was

565
00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:15,039
an email message that I can't take
that anymore. I don't even know if

566
00:52:15,079 --> 00:52:19,039
it was from her, so I
don't know, but that came through.

567
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,719
Then him and her went the back
room to talk with the door shut.

568
00:52:22,079 --> 00:52:27,960
Me Andrew canvas and sharing her up
in the front room, I was playing

569
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,679
all the two desktop computers that were
up there. I'm never The only information

570
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:43,199
I have on their arguments after they
left front room is secondhand, all right.

571
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,679
As far as what was happening in
the living room, it was,

572
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:54,079
you know, all six of us
were in the front watching movies and stuff

573
00:52:54,159 --> 00:53:02,000
on the computers. Jess was wanting
attention, and he wanted to take him

574
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,920
into the background to talk, and
he said, look, we have guests.

575
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:08,719
I don't really feel like going back
there right now. She got upset

576
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:14,679
and went into the room a little
while later he followed her in and they

577
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,719
were in there talking for a while. So the only thing I have on

578
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:23,159
what they were talking about or arguing
about, is second hand from Matt through

579
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:30,400
letters that you probably already have.
This whole story is so convoluted surely with

580
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:36,800
five different versions, detectives could sift
through and uncover something close to the truth.

581
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:42,960
As per usual, the group of
them were apparently in the front room,

582
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:47,079
communicating only through text message. When
Chris got a text from Matt to

583
00:53:47,199 --> 00:53:51,320
come into the back room. He
called me in the room. There was

584
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:55,239
there was a whole year with a
pole of blood. Her shirt was lifted

585
00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:00,119
up like under moves. There was
a pull of blood. Assist. I

586
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:04,239
told you if I Ranvera from my
it myself. And she's sitting there.

587
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:09,320
She's feeling cold and this and that. She's barely talking like she wasn't really

588
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:15,280
she was talking more to him.
And when I see the blood, I

589
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:19,320
have a weak's stomach. That got
me really crazy. So I left the

590
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,440
room. He called me back and
I came back in and she was going,

591
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,119
I guess, going in and out, like not of consciousness. But

592
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,480
she was just rambling. You couldn't
understand what she was, you know,

593
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,079
like I'm talking to you now you
can hear the words out of my mouth.

594
00:54:34,599 --> 00:54:38,800
I couldn't make half the sentences she
was saying. So he told me

595
00:54:39,079 --> 00:54:45,280
that he said something about he goes
the only reason I did. He's telling

596
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,360
her everything he's doing. The only
reason that I stabbed you that wasn't to

597
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,519
put you out of your misery.
He told her that. He said that

598
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,719
was just to make you weak.
And I don't get that one, but

599
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:00,320
but he told her to make her
weak. Then he says, I going

600
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:05,880
to put a bag in suffragaged to
the room because I'm not. First off,

601
00:55:06,039 --> 00:55:10,800
I almost yet Matt did as he
said he would, putting a bag

602
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:16,559
over Jessica's head to suffocate her.
She fought him, ripping the first bag

603
00:55:16,679 --> 00:55:22,880
open, so he covered her head
with a second bag until she was no

604
00:55:22,039 --> 00:55:24,760
longer moving. I should have called
you, guys, and I was,

605
00:55:25,159 --> 00:55:29,559
honestly, I was afraid. He
already suffered with a knife. Once,

606
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,320
what's the same, You guys will
maybe there and I'll be the second one

607
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:37,320
later there, you know what I
mean? I got six kids plus possibly

608
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:40,400
the way they said, she's not
what I think she is. Ah,

609
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:45,559
yes, the old I have to
look out for myself because my children need

610
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:52,239
me. Excuse where are these children
anyway? Definitely not with their dad.

611
00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:55,559
So when you leave the room,
we hear a little bit, I guess

612
00:55:55,679 --> 00:56:00,800
muffled boys. I mean I started
talking. No, I think like her

613
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,440
being a suffocated or whatever. I
didn't know what it was exactly. I

614
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,320
didn't know if he did something different
whatever. Supposedly he coached her and put

615
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,559
the bag over her own head.
Do you think she was in any kind

616
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:16,440
of shape to do that? The
love that she had for him possibly mean,

617
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,440
I don't think. I don't think
she physically could have done that.

618
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,639
She was the way she was right
here, I don't think so. Like

619
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:30,079
she was just laying on the bed, like like she wasn't moving much.

620
00:56:30,159 --> 00:56:34,960
Her head was moving, But I
don't think she'd actually have the strength to

621
00:56:35,039 --> 00:56:39,320
put a bag and hold it.
And plus if I don't myself just to

622
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:43,760
get a buzz, put my hands
there to make myself do it, you

623
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:49,280
don't, you don't go out,
you'll let gofore it. So he's and

624
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:54,519
he hitched. I guess scratches on
his arm from her fighting. I guess

625
00:56:54,639 --> 00:57:00,800
back then he called us in the
room, me, my girl, Andrew

626
00:57:00,159 --> 00:57:05,639
Candice all seen in the bag tightly, you know, just she's laying there

627
00:57:06,079 --> 00:57:08,800
lifeless. We're kind of bag and
talking about Walmart bag or Prace right bag

628
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,880
one of a little white plastic bags. Sure, I think it was a

629
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,599
white plastic bag could have been clear. I don't think it was clear though,

630
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,639
and it was just wrap. Eventually
he's talking to her when she's not

631
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,639
there anymore, saying, he goes, I told you I got to take

632
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:27,079
you out, and you know and
this and that. I'm like, oh,

633
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,039
fuck, Now I'm necessary. I
don't want to be, but I'm

634
00:57:31,079 --> 00:57:34,639
in the house. Now I'm necessity. I didn't call the cops, I

635
00:57:34,719 --> 00:57:43,239
said. Oh. Remember Chris Right
and his allegedly pregnant girlfriend Sharon Cook had

636
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:47,360
only just met the others a few
days prior, and now they were going

637
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:54,400
to be intimately involved in helping to
cover up a murder for their Juggalo friends.

638
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:22,519
On March thirty first, twenty twelve, just one day after twenty one

639
00:58:22,599 --> 00:58:28,519
year old Jessica Seco's landlord discovered her
partially dismembered body in the bathtub of her

640
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:35,679
apartment, five suspects were arrested in
connection to the crime. Urbana police had

641
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,239
in their custody twenty five year old
Matthew Puccio, twenty five year old Andrew

642
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:45,519
Forny, twenty five year old Candace
Forny, thirty eight year old Christopher Wright,

643
00:58:46,119 --> 00:58:52,480
and twenty five year old Sharon Cook. Matthew Puccio was charged with aggravated

644
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:59,719
murder, felonious assault, felony,
gross abuse of a corpse, misdemeanor of

645
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,679
abuse, use of a corpse,
possession of criminal tools, and tampering with

646
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:09,239
evidence. Bail was set at over
half a million dollars. The rest of

647
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:14,519
the group faced charges of gross abuse
of a corpse, abuse of a corpse,

648
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:20,639
tampering with evidence, obstructing justice,
and failure to report a crime that

649
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:25,559
bails ranged from thirty thousand dollars to
forty two five hundred dollars. Everyone but

650
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:31,559
Matthew Puccio agreed to take a plea
deal, stipulating that they'd share the whole

651
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:38,559
truth with investigators. Matthew originally tried
to plead not guilty by reason of insanity,

652
00:59:38,679 --> 00:59:44,960
but eventually changed his plea to guilty. Good evening, I'm Eryl mcchanray,

653
00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:47,800
I'm John Paul James Brown is off
and Urbana woman suffered for hours before

654
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:52,519
she was killed. That's according to
the man who told us he's the one

655
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:54,599
who killed her, he said of
seventh. Jessica Heffner talked to the now

656
00:59:54,679 --> 01:00:00,880
confessed killer in the Tri County jail
and has this exclusive interview Jessica. Well,

657
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,480
there are five people in jail for
the murder of Jessica Ray Sacho.

658
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:07,199
I asked all five to talk to
me about what happened, but only the

659
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:13,079
main suspect, Matthew Puccio, agreed, and he says about that day is

660
01:00:13,159 --> 01:00:17,760
disturbing and police are still evaluating how
much of it they actually believe. Why

661
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:22,880
did you kill her? Honestly don't
know. He was brought in from the

662
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:27,599
jail in handcuffs. He told me
he only agreed to this interview to tell

663
01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:31,239
his side of the story of what
his relationship with Jessica Ray Sacho was really

664
01:00:31,519 --> 01:00:36,440
like. He says her personality drew
them together a year and a half ago,

665
01:00:37,079 --> 01:00:42,679
being there for me when I was
going through psychotic breaks. She held

666
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,599
me in, told me it'll be
all right. But the night of March

667
01:00:45,679 --> 01:00:47,960
twenty first they got into an argument, one, he said, started because

668
01:00:49,039 --> 01:00:52,360
he'd received text messages Sacho wanted him
dead. I said, if you help

669
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:57,840
me out of your life, I
can just do it myself. Once she

670
01:00:59,239 --> 01:01:01,599
I can't be so for sec that
you have four kiss to think about.

671
01:01:02,039 --> 01:01:07,440
That's when he claimed Sacho started begging
him to kill her. A corner ruled

672
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:12,199
she died of suffocation. Please say
he used a bag, but Puccio admitted

673
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,159
that's not what happened. First,
she was pleading with me to slash her

674
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:22,159
throat, sasha wrist, do something, and I told her, no,

675
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,599
I can't do that to you,
and she told me to stab her then,

676
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,840
so I just held my hand above
her stomach. She grabbed my wrist

677
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:35,960
and pulled it into her stomach.
So how did the bag get into the

678
01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:39,880
situation? The bag that please say
you put over her head to suffocate her,

679
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,800
that didn't come into the situation until
about six and a half seven hours

680
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,760
later, after I stabbed her.
Puccio claims he held a knife in front

681
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,719
of her torso, but she reached
for it, and he claims she made

682
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:54,920
him stab her. He also said
he wrapped the wound, held her,

683
01:01:55,079 --> 01:02:00,599
and, in his words, gave
her a final kiss. She asked me

684
01:02:00,639 --> 01:02:06,599
if I could just let her diarrating. I thought, there's only one way

685
01:02:06,639 --> 01:02:10,519
I can do that. There's not
going to be pleasant, he cried as

686
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:15,639
he described grabbing a plastic bag and
putting it over her head. Weak from

687
01:02:15,639 --> 01:02:19,440
the knife wound, he said it
only took seconds. I just liked next

688
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:28,559
her and cried, kept telling her
I'm sorry for hours. He debated his

689
01:02:28,679 --> 01:02:32,000
next move. He then says he
called four friends also in jail now for

690
01:02:32,239 --> 01:02:39,039
help. Why whine hit up her
body? Scared, he said, they

691
01:02:39,119 --> 01:02:43,639
jumped the body parts in some woods
in Kentucky. He then went to Hamilton

692
01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:46,719
to wait. It would be eight
days before police would find her body.

693
01:02:47,079 --> 01:02:51,360
During that time, Puccio said he
tried to come to terms with what he

694
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:54,559
did. When police came for him, he says, he confessed, we

695
01:02:54,639 --> 01:02:59,760
have no right to take someone else's
life. I dont matter what the scenario

696
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:07,800
is that he did know, and
I have to live at death. Our

697
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,440
friend of Sachos told me she'd been
urging her to kick Putio out of her

698
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:15,880
apartment not long before she was killed. Pouccio told me he plans to plead

699
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:21,280
guilty and deserves the death penalty.
Well, Matthew, Puccio was telling one

700
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:27,119
hundred and one different versions of what
happened and why the others began spilling the

701
01:03:27,199 --> 01:03:34,039
beans in order to keep their plea
deals alive. Unlike Jessica. Of course,

702
01:03:34,719 --> 01:03:37,840
that night we ended up having to
stay there me and my girl and

703
01:03:37,159 --> 01:03:42,119
little the other two were staying a
little Me and my girl ended up staying

704
01:03:42,159 --> 01:03:45,840
there because he told us to stay
there. He's slept next to the boty

705
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:51,679
indivdure. Wow, that's yeah.
And that right there got me even worse

706
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:57,760
because if he says he said Columbine
and all the mother had nothing on him

707
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,760
me. So I don't know.
I'm still I'm afraid to watch this movie

708
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,639
The Collector. He gave me a
movie, or watch The Collector. And

709
01:04:02,639 --> 01:04:06,760
then he says that's nothing to God
of what he could do. And the

710
01:04:08,159 --> 01:04:15,519
description of the collector he keeps body
parts his trophies. It's just disgusting.

711
01:04:15,559 --> 01:04:18,159
I don't want somebody body part is
a trophy to bring in the next No,

712
01:04:19,519 --> 01:04:25,400
I don't know the movie. I'm
still refusing to watch it. But

713
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:34,920
oh it's just And then the next
day by tell me tell me about that

714
01:04:35,199 --> 01:04:39,079
is what was his reason for cutting
it out? To get rid of it.

715
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,559
Okay, so he was collecting parts
from no, but no, but

716
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,880
that's what that's what when he told
me about the movie first, I was

717
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:46,920
like, oh, don't tell me
this. No, he wanted to get

718
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,559
rid of the parts. The parts
are not sure where they're at. Okay,

719
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:55,840
so how did you guys get rid
of the top. It took four

720
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,599
of us. It was only him
and Andrew in the beginning trying. Then

721
01:04:59,639 --> 01:05:02,239
he asked me, I grabbed I
think it one of her legs to try.

722
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:04,639
I don't know why I did it. I was scared of him.

723
01:05:06,039 --> 01:05:10,599
I didn't you know what I mean. It's it's just a body who's before

724
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,639
and then three of us. Andrew's
a big boy, and I don't know

725
01:05:14,679 --> 01:05:18,880
if you met Andrew. Andrew's a
big boy with me and I'm one hundred

726
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:23,519
and ninety thousand strong. With three
of us trying to lift her, it

727
01:05:23,639 --> 01:05:27,280
was dead weight, not no pun
intended, but it was, you know,

728
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,920
it was happy we could get the
thing in the tumble. So Sharon

729
01:05:31,039 --> 01:05:33,920
help him. So we each grabbed
the leg and an arm got her,

730
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:39,079
got her and then to him.
Finally we had to drag her. He

731
01:05:39,199 --> 01:05:41,840
wanted it off in bed for some
reason, and I was afraid. So

732
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:47,880
understand she didn't want to deal with. Trust me right, tell you go

733
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:53,079
off the cutting up? Who else
cutting it off? He had? He

734
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:58,079
had Andrews start, told him to
do it. And what did Andrew do?

735
01:05:59,519 --> 01:06:04,480
Started with what's he using to cut
her up? Diving knife? I

736
01:06:04,559 --> 01:06:08,159
think it was. I think it
was a diving n he had. He

737
01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:11,400
had about three. There was two
swords. He tried with the sword first,

738
01:06:12,119 --> 01:06:15,599
and then who tried the store first
and try with one of them kata

739
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,320
swords. Right, let's go back
to a very first show visual statement.

740
01:06:19,639 --> 01:06:24,400
Yeah, I believe the first one
was when Matt came out and told you

741
01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:30,599
she was dead. That you guys
went then and picked her up and took

742
01:06:30,639 --> 01:06:32,760
her into the bathroom and put her
in the tub. I was and then

743
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:39,719
started cutting her left arm off.
I was mistaken with that. I was

744
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:45,360
mistaken. I was a shock.
That is part of the ironia statement.

745
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:51,760
Okay, so you're saying now that
he comes out and says she's dead or

746
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,679
whatever, I mean, how is
that how he put it or what did

747
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,800
what did he say? Yeah,
he said she's dead. I showed her.

748
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:05,519
Okay, So then you guys decided
to go to sleep, and then

749
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:12,440
that's about what time in mor Indie
you know it was. It was between

750
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,960
seven and nine in the morning when
we went to sleep. Woke up somewhere

751
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:21,280
between eleven and one. Okay,
so you wake up between eleven and one,

752
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:28,639
and the decision at that point is
what that Matt said, Hey,

753
01:07:28,679 --> 01:07:30,880
look, I've been thinking about it. We should move her into the bathroom

754
01:07:31,159 --> 01:07:36,199
and cut up the body to be
able to hide it. Okay, now,

755
01:07:38,519 --> 01:07:45,199
when we first thought you said that
was your idea. Whether it was

756
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,519
my idea or is it was brought
up at that point. Who knew how

757
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:55,480
to cut her up? It's not
something that you just do on a whim,

758
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:02,920
right. I made incision marks superficial
at the different joints in whatever to

759
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:09,400
show where Matt should cut. Matt
did the majority of the cutting, and

760
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:13,679
then I removed the fingers too,
because Matt said, well, if we

761
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:15,920
leave the fingers on there, then
the body will be easier to identify if

762
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:20,439
the parts are ever found. Okay, why did you leave the head?

763
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:30,159
Then we got to a point where
we felt we just couldn't continue because of

764
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:39,159
what reasons, one time constraints to
smell. It would have been to a

765
01:08:39,239 --> 01:08:42,880
finished cutting up the body in the
way that Matt decided he wanted to do

766
01:08:43,039 --> 01:08:47,279
it after the idea was brought forth. It would have involved cutting open the

767
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:54,359
abdomen and removing you know, the
organs and so forth, which is going

768
01:08:54,439 --> 01:09:00,720
to create a unbelievable smell, and
that would have alerted the name to something

769
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:08,079
going on. And so when it
got two late enough in the day of

770
01:09:08,319 --> 01:09:11,920
cutting, Chris and I just looked
at each other and said, no,

771
01:09:12,119 --> 01:09:18,119
we this needs to stop now because
it's you know, this is just as

772
01:09:18,199 --> 01:09:25,920
far as it should go. Period. This this situation where you've murdered and

773
01:09:26,079 --> 01:09:30,680
partially dismembered an innocent young woman in
her own house, that's as far as

774
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:35,920
it should go, according to Andrew
and Chris. Dismember her body. You

775
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:41,640
don't take the head off, you
can't get the arm off. You're undertime

776
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:46,119
and strange smell, all that stuff. What do you guys do with the

777
01:09:46,199 --> 01:09:54,039
body parts? The body parts were
placed into those trash bags with the intention

778
01:09:54,439 --> 01:10:02,720
of removing them and ditching them at
another location where the original intention was to

779
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:08,439
leave. Basically, put one limb
in each trash bag and leave them at

780
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:15,039
different dumpsters throughout town here in Urbana, and they would have been in public

781
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,199
trash cans and so forth, and
most likely not searched. Was the thought

782
01:10:18,359 --> 01:10:28,399
process there. We couldn't find locations
that suited our purposes, so they ended

783
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:32,880
up being transported down with us to
Hamilton, at which point the people that

784
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:42,600
we were staying with, that's Susan
Hunt, which is Linda and Epstein's mother,

785
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:47,640
said that she would take him to
ditch the body parts on their way

786
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:53,439
down into Kentucky when she was going
to pick up her youngest children. I'm

787
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:58,520
really not sure why this Linda lady
was not arrested. Maybe somebody in the

788
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,920
audience could clue me in. That's
a question we just weren't able to answer.

789
01:11:03,159 --> 01:11:09,720
How on earth did the stars align
so perfectly that at minimum six people

790
01:11:10,359 --> 01:11:15,760
were involved in the cover up.
Everyone Jessica surrounded herself with in her final

791
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:25,600
six months of life was against her. Literally everyone did you call ems?

792
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:31,600
Or nine on one? I didn't
went on Honestly, I've been told that

793
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,880
I'm loyal to a fault, and
I would say that was definitely a fault

794
01:11:36,119 --> 01:11:45,640
in not calling. I don't think
that he was completely in control of himself

795
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:50,600
when that happened, but and as
such, I became protective of him and

796
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:58,279
didn't want him to suffer for something
he did in a crazy moment. But

797
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:08,600
you when jess took thirty some aspirin
and eight tremadil over trimmadol or whatever it

798
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:13,600
was. You call EMS nine on
one and have him come pick her up,

799
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:18,680
because she didn't want her to die. But Matt stabs her. You

800
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,039
got a little bit of a cut
on her shirt, a little bit of

801
01:12:21,079 --> 01:12:25,720
a blood. This isn't a womb
to her neck, This isn't a womb

802
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:30,039
to her wrists, This isn't you
know, there's not blood all over the

803
01:12:30,119 --> 01:12:35,359
place. You don't think to call
nine on one or EMS at that point

804
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,760
to try to save her life.
At that point, even though you tried

805
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,520
to save her life when she took
a bunch of pills with no blood involved,

806
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:50,960
and she try to take her own
life. I'm sure this is about

807
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:56,000
to sound screwed up, but I
don't ever believe that suicide is the answer

808
01:12:56,119 --> 01:13:01,039
to anything. I feel extremely strong
about that as such, whether I liked

809
01:13:01,079 --> 01:13:06,680
her at that time or not,
I called EMS and made sure she was

810
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:12,640
taking care off. I had actually
wanted her and was trying to convince her

811
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:18,760
to stay checked in at that mental
hospital for longer, because honestly she needed

812
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:26,039
that. She was extremely depressed on
a long term basis. What we got

813
01:13:26,079 --> 01:13:30,039
to Facebook messages, You guys back
and forth that were closer to her death,

814
01:13:30,199 --> 01:13:32,600
that where you guys don't like her
at all, you're basically just staying

815
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,079
there because you needed a roof over
your head and you didn't want to sleep

816
01:13:35,119 --> 01:13:39,720
in the van. Yeah, okay, so let's not go into a whole.

817
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:43,520
And they had a representation that's not
I mean, the guys didn't light

818
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,319
as the time. The reason why
I didn't call her right then is because,

819
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:53,119
honestly, since I knew he wasn't
thinking straight or thinking at all,

820
01:13:54,199 --> 01:13:59,640
I didn't want him to get but
for a small little, for a small

821
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:04,560
little is the longest the soul.
F two carries the penalty today as opposed

822
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:13,359
to murder that carries potential death paloty. Again, I was not thinking clearly,

823
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:20,439
and I'm freely admitting that. So
would it be safe to say that

824
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:26,840
you guys expressed your displeasure with Jess
and how you guys didn't like her care

825
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:34,720
for you guys talked about wishing her
gone with Christ and then never got mad.

826
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:44,640
Yeah, you guys talk about killing
her with Christ and chair I didn't.

827
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:49,920
I mean, I got mad and
I said, stupid shiit, what's

828
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:55,279
the stupid ship? He said like, I did wish her gone. I

829
01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:03,199
got so mad, but after the
fact I didn't really don't know. I

830
01:15:03,239 --> 01:15:11,479
guess I wish she would have just
better mean way or I didn't want just

831
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:19,960
Yes, they did want it to
happen, and then it happened. Cause

832
01:15:20,399 --> 01:15:29,840
and effect consequences to actions. How
many times have we told this story.

833
01:15:30,159 --> 01:15:36,039
This group of quote unquote loyal people
would have been thrilled if Jessica had stayed

834
01:15:36,159 --> 01:15:43,399
institutionalized after a suicide attempt so they
could just live freely in her house without

835
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:48,640
her around. That didn't happen,
though, so they took it upon themselves

836
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:56,079
to allow the craziest among them to
carry out this horrible act while they stood

837
01:15:56,119 --> 01:16:01,119
by and watched, waiting to help
clean it all up when it was all

838
01:16:01,239 --> 01:16:08,920
said and done. Now, listen, you're going to be very disappointed when

839
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:16,159
you hear the prison sentences for these
degenerate morons. Matthew Puccio received a sentence

840
01:16:16,199 --> 01:16:23,359
of life in prison with the possibility
of parole after thirty years for the aggravated

841
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:29,680
murder charge and an additional twelve years
for the other charges. Oh yeah,

842
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:34,239
and one of the people matt was
cheating on Jessica with was a fourteen year

843
01:16:34,279 --> 01:16:40,680
old girl, so he copped an
additional three years for that. His co

844
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:47,239
defendants received varied sentences. Andrew Forny
got just ten years in prison. Wow,

845
01:16:47,399 --> 01:16:53,560
Candice Forni got six years because you
know she's female. She did have

846
01:16:53,640 --> 01:17:00,520
to forfeit her van though the vehicle
used to transport Jessica's body parts. Christopher

847
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:08,199
Wright got just four years, and
his girlfriend Sharon Cook got three With good

848
01:17:08,279 --> 01:17:14,199
behavior, that's like a cake walk. The Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction

849
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:20,199
states that Christopher Wright is currently a
fugitive and is at large, most likely

850
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:27,640
for violation of the terms of his
parole. Hearing these sentences, you're probably

851
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:33,520
realizing that everyone except for Matthew is
out of prison. Andrew even has his

852
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:38,920
own brand new Facebook account. Believe
it or not, go say hi,

853
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:44,520
Actually, don't just stay the fuck
away. Stay the fuck away from these

854
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:49,560
people, all of them. Nothing
good can come from surrounding yourself with people

855
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:57,960
like this, a lesson Jessica should
have learned, but didn't. Unfortunately.

856
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:03,880
Isn't it just crazy how some people
can make egregious mistakes in their life and

857
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:10,000
then walk away a few years later, like nothing ever happened. All of

858
01:18:10,039 --> 01:18:15,840
the perpetrators in this case have family
members who now have to live with this

859
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:23,239
horrible stain on their family name.
Most importantly, this crime took Jessica Saco

860
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:29,560
away from her loving parents and siblings. She may not have been perfect,

861
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:34,880
she may have had demons and issues. Hell, she may have even been

862
01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:42,399
annoying. Who knows, but who
cares. She was innocent. She deserved

863
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:46,119
a chance to live, to learn, to grow as a person, to

864
01:18:46,239 --> 01:18:54,880
realize that insane clown posse is not
good music period. And I don't mean

865
01:18:54,960 --> 01:19:00,479
to make light of the situation.
It's a really horrible, horrible thing happened

866
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:05,520
here, but I can't help but
feel for Jessica's poor mom, who tried

867
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:10,680
to give her a chance, who
tried to steer her in the right direction.

868
01:19:12,039 --> 01:19:14,359
But at some point you got to
let the little baby bird out of

869
01:19:14,399 --> 01:19:20,000
the nest and hope for the best. And life doesn't always turn out the

870
01:19:20,119 --> 01:19:43,560
way you hope it will. All
right, that's going to do it for

871
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:46,640
another one. Thank you so much
for joining us. And again, if

872
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,880
this is the last thing on your
feed, and this is the last time

873
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:51,880
you've heard me, and it's been
weeks and weeks. Maybe you want to

874
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:57,600
head on over to Swordinscale dot com
download our new app and go check that

875
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:00,479
out, which is, by the
way, launching it just a little over

876
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:02,520
a week now, So go tell
your friends. It's got a little buzz

877
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:33,920
going like it's twenty seventeen. Well
let's go. No, we want the

878
01:20:34,119 --> 01:20:38,880
calls all the more reasons I have
the calls. If they don't like the

879
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:44,600
calls, keep the calls. I
love the call. So that's my opinion.

880
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:48,520
By a Mike is Jack's don't get
rid of the comments. At at

881
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:54,319
the end, you know people are
paying the app. If I like the

882
01:20:54,399 --> 01:20:58,840
comments, there are some people who
really could use the course of paraphrasing,

883
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,960
so they can just you know,
get the point across and then take up.

884
01:21:02,399 --> 01:21:06,239
But that's not your problem. Keep
the comments. I think you need

885
01:21:06,279 --> 01:21:10,479
to hear the love all right,
keep doing a good jobs. So by

886
01:21:11,359 --> 01:21:17,319
Mike is Nicole Coomplin. I've been
listening to you for ten years and the

887
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:20,560
best part of your well the best
version show is you, of course,

888
01:21:21,119 --> 01:21:26,319
but I really do look forward to
those called Debbie end. Don't ever stop

889
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:30,720
that you please me. Once it
was the most amazing moment of my life

890
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:39,760
and please don't stop doing it.
It's part of your your signature. Okay.

891
01:21:40,439 --> 01:22:33,880
Anyway, looking forward to the TV
show You Say Say Blood not by Dido did