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In an article entitled Maga pastor says
two hundred Bibles set ablaze outside his church

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on Easter morning, Far right pastor
Greg Locke gets a taste of his own

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medicine as a trailer full of Bibles
is set ablaze in front of the Global

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Vision Church in Nashville, Tennessee.
Locke has previously pulled similar stunts of his

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own by holding book burnings focused on
Harry Potter and Twilight series due to their

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supposed demonic teachings. He also notably
destroyed a Barbie dreamhouse with a baseball bat

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that had a Bible taped to it
in response to the twenty twenty three Barbie

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hit movie, which challenged traditional roles
of patriarchy and endorsed various forms of equality

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pertaining to sex and gender. This
vehement LGBTQ opponent frequently violates his church's nonprofit

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status by using his sermons to make
political endorsements of Donald Trump, while characterizing

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President Joe Biden and his supporters as
demon's possessed demon excuse me, crack smoking

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leftists. There are so many things
wrong with this picture, and I wish

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there were enough time to cover all
of it. We're certainly going to try.

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But this story is from The Daily
Beast by A. J. McDougall

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on March thirty first, twenty twenty
four, and I want to kick it

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over to our panels. Eli,
I want to start with you first.

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You know, this is a This
is a guy who has been accused of,

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well not accused of, I mean
openly performed ridiculous stunts in front of

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his congregation, out in public,
you know, smashing Barbie dream houses,

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burning his own books. But is
this potential or is this actual book burning

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in front of his church just another
potential stunt by Lock? Or has he

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drawn negative attention due to his antics
as he has in the past, and

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maybe somebody's get getting even with him? What do you think about that?

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So I'll say, is it outside
the realm of possibility that he is the

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target of violence? Not at all, that's absolutely and that probably is the

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case. But it kind of seems
like he did it, you know what

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I mean. So if you think
if you look at the way that he

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talks about this footage, so in
the article he it's it says that he

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has not yet seen the footage at
the time that he describes it. In

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the following ways. He talks about
exactly what time the vehicle was parked.

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He talks about how the UH perpetrator
UH left the hazard lights on. He

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said, that's the most polite criminal. And that is very interesting detail because

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it's not common for people who are
angry to give credit where it's due.

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And I think what the case is
that he can't demonize himself. I think

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he's the person in the video,
and he can't demonize himself. He has

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to say something good about himself.
So he's like, oh, look how

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polite I am, even when I'm
criming. I'm just so polite, polite

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you've ever seen. And it's like, and this is act like a known

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thing that happens when people are trying
to shift blame from themselves. It is

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kind of people are unable to just
fully demonize themselves most of the time.

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So even when you're trying to,
you know, in this case, say

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like no, that wasn't me that
did that, which he does, he's

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not defending himself, but he's trying
to obfuscate himself. And even in that

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process, he can't fully be like, well he's all bad, because he

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knows it's him and he's got to
be like, there's some good in there.

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Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. You know. I really like

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to see how this plays out if
it is in fact uncovered that he did

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do it. Maybe he's already setting
himself up to look like a good guy

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in a kind of a weird way. I wanted to kind of move to

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Infidel and see what you thought about
that is, do you think that Locke

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could be behind these stunts in order
to draw attention to himself? I mean,

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is he just an attention grabbing type
of guy, or is he really,

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you know, concerned about this movement
that he's so against. I've got

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to say that Greg Locke believes in
one thing and one thing only, and

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that's Greg Lock. But his antics
that he has done in the past,

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it is would be difficult for me
to put this past him. Does that

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mean he did it? No,
But it did strike me as rather odd

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when he made the comment about wanting
to start passing out the Scorchs Bible versus

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the Bible pages. I found that
to be, you know, this concept

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of unity of opposition of you know, look at what they're doing to us,

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because he's trying to take these Bibles. Who technically aren't his. It's

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not like they win took his bibles
and earned his property and he's going to

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pass he's out as some kind of
memento or trophy of survival. It just

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seems very suspicious to me. Now
you had mentioned earlier his bible taped around

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the baseball bat with the barbie house, and anyone who will do these types

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of antics and try to pass this
off as it's something serious. Personally,

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it's something I'm not able to do. I'm not able to take them serious,

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and honestly, I don't think anyone
should. I do agree with the

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sheriff saying it was one hundred percent
deliberate act. The question is back to

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what Eli said, who And as
you mentioned Jimmy, he has a history

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of burning books himself. So for
me, it just seems like a logical

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leap to think that, you know, burning books is something the other side

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would do too. But if it
is real and someone did this, obviously

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that's unacceptable on any level. But
it is a reminder that hateful things do

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breed hateful actions. It's not a
justification for our side or any the opposition

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of Greg Locke to do it any
more than it is those words of hate

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that he spews every week, how
they come back to haunt us, and

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how they come back to haunt people
around him. Because words have consequences.

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So if those words are having consequences
to him too, well, perhaps he

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should consider toning down his rhetoric because
he doesn't believe this. That's what it

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is. It's rhetoric. Sure,
yeah, And I mean we've got a

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case to maybe think or maybe say
that he is behind this and this is

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kind of just more of the show
that he's putting on, or he could

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be drawing some retaliation. It's scott. If this is indeed a case of

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retaliation against Locke for his far fest, far fetched excuse me, and far

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right commentary political activism, can it
be considered a hate crime? I mean,

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is this is this so serious?
Uh that we should be giving it

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that title? Well, I mean
it's really tough to say. I mean,

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both the Infidel and Eli bringing up
some good points. I mean,

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I definitely could see I could see
Locke doing something like this, right,

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I mean, having you know,
this martyr complex, uh, is definitely

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kind of a It's an ego it's
an ego trip and so you know,

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there's there's really two. It's it's
the story is either a Greg Locke story

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or it's an act of violence story. And and in this case, it's

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probably a little bit of both.
I mean he's drawn, uh, he's

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drawn the ire of many different many
different populations, many different groups within the

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population, for example, And these
are some of his own words. This

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one's taken from a video of him
on Twitter. He's as now, I'm

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going to make you mad for a
minute, and I don't really care.

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Why is it you pull up to
a church and it says they operate in

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faith and you have fifty handicapped parking
spots we ought to start, say,

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having signs of a wheelchair laying down
and someone just walking up. Well,

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pastor, I think you're being insensitive. I think you just don't have enough

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faith, is what I think.
And so he's he's he's saying that disabled

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people are just don't have enough faith. They should just cast aside their wheelchairs

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and stand up and walk. And
I found this other tweet of his from

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July of last year, and this
is like a one stop shopping spot for

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all for violating all these different communities. Here he says Jesus is the only

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way to heaven. Period. Masks
don't work. There's only two genders.

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Trump won the election. George Floyd
is not a hero. Socialism is an

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evil disease. Epstein didn't kill himself. The tunnels are real. I had

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to look up that last one.
But he's definitely trying. I mean,

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it's almost like he's intentionally provoking these
these communities. And so he has a

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history of being a troublemaker. And
so the question then lies you were asking

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about is it a hate crime?
Is it a hate crime if there are

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people actually responding to this? And
I wasn't really sure about that. I

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looked it up. This is from
Justice dot gov. It says, at

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the federal level, hate crime laws
include crimes committed again on the basis of

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the victims perceived or actual race,
color, religion, national origin, sexual

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orientation, gender, gender identity,
or disability. Okay, and so the

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question then is whether or not it's
a hate crime depends on why. If

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we're assuming that it was committed by
somebody else. Can you know, Joe,

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I wonder if you could do a
hate crime against yourself, If anybody

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could, it would be somebody like
him. So, but then the question

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is are they doing this because of
his religious beliefs or are they doing it

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just because he's an asshole. I
mean, it can go either way,

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and I think I'm in I'm inclined
to align with your last point. I

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mean, he's noting ire from people
because he's religious. He's drawing ire because

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he's well, he's basically a walking
clickbait, isn't he. He's a troll.

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He is trying to do things for
attention and you know, purposely raise

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his stock by openly making these outlandish
claims. And you know, I just

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want to harken back to the fact
that a lot of the things he's saying

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go against the rules that are established
in his community in the five oh one

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c three nonprofit REALM. Right,
So, standing at your pulpit and endorsing

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political opponents and then why why is
it just another way to be provocative?

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Right, He's provoking the government.
He's saying, look what I can do,

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don't tell me what to do.
I'm running this church. Yeah,

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And so these are good points.
I could segue into something I know Eli

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had something to say about, and
that is, you know, Locke is

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telling his congregation all sorts of things. He's taking political stances. They're they're

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way way far right wing, but
they're they're also unhinged. I mean,

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even even for right wing people,
beating up a Barbie doll house is kind

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of crazy. But AILI by by
Locke telling his congregation that they need to

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not be so lukewarm and passive,
aggressive and and essentially demanding that they take

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a more abrasive or forceful stance.
Is it is this a call to action

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by him for people to engage in
violence, a call to violence? I

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would hesitate to call it that.
It's kind of like the the Christian verse.

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Well not not the Christian version,
but you could say the buddy version,

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Buddy Jesus version of cull to violence, like the l like what LOL

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is to laughing. It's he he
really wants them to so. So what

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he said was that this is a
quote from the article that he had said

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to his congregation. I'm sorry,
I gotta take a fin of here.

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He's a known, you know,
we are under attacked type preacher. So

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what he says is, if you
think Christianity is not under attack now more

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than ever before in the United States
of America, you have not been paying

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attention. You need to get your
head out of the sand. Quit being

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so lukewarm. Quit being so passive, aggressive and manby, pamby and spiritually

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sissified. So he very much wants
to like rally the troops of his congregation,

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so to speak, and kind of
get them behind him. So the

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next time he makes like a Facebook
video or he's on the local news,

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he can have like seven to ten
people behind him holding signs that say,

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you know, God, hey whoever, or you know that may not be

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his brand, but you know,
he can have like that support behind him.

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He just wants to rally that support. He is very much a provocateur

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as you, as Hasban said,
and he just he does a lot of

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these videos where he's like just kind
of angry and about whatever's going on politically.

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He had a video about the about
when Target changed the bathroom policy to

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allow customers to use the bathroom of
the gender they identify with. There was

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a Baptistnewsglobal dot com article about him
and it was titled, in part,

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here's why you shouldn't listen to him. This was in August of twenty twenty

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one. Baptist News Global was saying
don't listen to this guy. To Baptists,

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Well, it's not uncommon for I
think members of different congregations or even

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different sects of Christianity to kind of
point the finger at each other. Right,

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I'm not so sure if I'm convinced
that he's not making a call to

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action, I don't know where we
draw the line. You know, he

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is trying to kind of evoke some
kind of victimhood with him with his followers

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and give them something to identify as
victims. And you know that could spill

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over and become really ugly. We've
seen that in our political sphere and our

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own government January sixth, of course, and in other ways. And you

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know, Glenn, I want to
ask you. You made mention of passing

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out Bible pages. So what would
be so bad about him passing out the

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burned Bible pages? Is this a
badge of honor? Or is it a

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reminder of their victim? Would to
create the solidarity that he would need if

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things would escalate, I think the
goal would be anger. You know,

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you create that unity, and once
you get that unity, then you give

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it a direction. And that direction
rather consistently with well coming from the guy

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who decided to take a baseball bat
with the Bible wrapped around into a Barbie

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house, Negativity, violence, these
type of things seem to be his way

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to He would want to resolve almost
anything. It's more of a condescending you

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know, let's go handle this,
because you're you're not brave enough, you're

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not bold enough, you're not Christian
enough, you're not whatever you want to

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put there. You're not enough.
But I am, and I'm going to

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be the example. So I think
to him, he sees himself as that

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hero, you know, that that
one who's going to lead people. Because

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I don't believe that Locke actually buys
most of what he says, but I

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think that there's that I want to
be that guy. I want to be

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that person, and I think that
this is just another way to stay relevant

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in his eyes and to get people
charged up about a burned Bible. I

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mean, I guess that's a bonus. So I don't think he's losing his

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sleep. But one thing I wanted
to say that I found odd is that

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usually those trailers have ven numbers on
I'm I'm surprised that there isn't somebody tracking

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that trailer a little more seriously than
that, and that's a lot more expensive

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than the Bibles. I was feeling
bad about the trailer. Well, you

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know, if this is his own
actions, I mean, he's an expert

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at this point, after going through
the Twilight and Harry Potter books. He's

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probably got some skill there to be
able to disguise his tracks right or mask

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his tracks. You know, Scott, I wanted to get your opinion on

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whether or not, plain and simple, is this violence. Well, that

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depends on how you look at it. I mean, if it's I mean

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we've been talking a lot about Greg
Locke and about how you know, maybe

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he staged it, but you know, there's always the possibility that he didn't.

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We've talked about some outrageous things he's
done. He's offended a variety of

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communities. He's he's definitely generated ire
from from the public. And so it

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definitely and and Infidel touched on this
earlier, and that is if it was

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violence against Greg Locke or his church
or or whatever. You know, it's

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it's not the way to go.
It's not a good way to go.

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I mean, at least that's my
opinion. I can't I can't support that

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kind of action if it was if
it was somebody something that's done against him,

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and so if that was the case, then I would say, yeah,

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it's definitely violence. It's it's uh, I mean, it's it's putting

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the public at risk. It's in
you know, it's endangering you know,

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it could be innocent bystanders who knows
that. You know, a fire could

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get out of control, it could
pass on to like nearby buildings or houses,

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and so it's uh, and it's
and it's fire. It's fire for

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one thing, and which is Locke
is quite familiar with. We've talked about

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his book burning experience, and and
uh, may be maybe maybe if it

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was him, he felt like he
was expert enough that he could keep it

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under control. But I mean,
it's it's hard, it's like right in

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your face. It's like burning something
that's precious to these people. And whether

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or not we agree with their beliefs, we have to support their right to

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have that belief we have to support
their right to have those books. And

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and so if you're asking me if
it's violence, I say, definitely it's

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violence if it's coming from outside of
the church itself, if he did it

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himself, then it's just a show, you know. Then it's like you

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know, a stage magician just you
know, having you know, pyrotechnics as

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part of the background. And so
you know, it would depend on how

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we look at it or what the
police find out, if the police are

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in fact investigating it. Yeah,
so bringing the police into it, this

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is a good a good opportunity to
be for me to answer. Ask you

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a closing question. I'd like to
get your closing comments based on the idea

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that maybe Greg Locke was under attack
by somebody. So there, let's say

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there are two sides of controversy,
lock on one hand, and the people

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who support LGBTQ plus rights general quality. Who wins in such a case like

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this, who's got the claim to
really be angry? And uh, you

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know who who is really being affected
by hate crimes? And then after Scott,

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if you could, if you could
wrap it up quickly, I want

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to get to Infidel and then we
will move to ELI and close it out.

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Uh. Well, if it is, if it is in fact a

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show, then I think it's a
It's a reflection of Locke realizing that he

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has to get more and more more
outrageous to keep you know, stoking the

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fires, as it were, of
that hatred. And so if it is

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him, then I you know,
if it's a show, then I think

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that he realizes that his influence and
his side is kind of on on the

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you know, on the down side
here. If it's if it was an

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act of violence, I think it's
not the way to It's not a good

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way to, uh to express that. If you're if somebody from the LGBTQ

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community or from any of the numerous
other communities that he's uh that he's offended.

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I don't think that's the right way
to approach it. And I I

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think it would you know, once
it's just if it's discovered to be somebody

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like that, then I think that
would be kind of a black eye from

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their cause Infidel any closing comments,
yeah, I would have to agree.

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I mean, this is obviously not
the way that anyone needs to resolve their

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problems. As much as I am
happy to see Bibles go away, I

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think this has since so many wrong
messages in so many ways that it's not

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even funny. It's counterproductive on almost
any level. The only win I could

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see in this would be possibly Greg
Locke and his type of rhetoric of getting

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amped up a notch, whether he
did it or not. And the truth

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is is that I don't think he
really cares if anyone's caught for it,

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even if he didn't do it,
because he would be hoping, okay,

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what happened the next night on the
cameras, because he's looking for that.

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That's what an insider looks for.
And if he's already incited things enough for

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other people to start driving the bus, I think it'd be perfectly happy given

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him an opportunity to push back at
something else, all right, ELI last

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thoughts, Sure, So as far
as the question, who's you know losing

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out? If who's the viction of
a hate crimeer, I mean, I

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think if this is an act of
violence from another group or individual as a

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result of of what he is saying
about, you know, the group they

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affiliate with or groups, nobody still
went like, there's no like everybody is

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losing not not only does nobody win, everybody is losing here. And this

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just is not as it's already been
said. You know, I'm kind of

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just repeating you know, my my
panelists, my co panelists here, but

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this isn't the right way to do
it. Somebody could have gotten hurt,

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you know, property could have been
damaged, but lives could have been lost,

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and then where would we be.
We wouldn't be in any better of

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a position. Whether it was Greg
Lack or not, it was incredibly stupid

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and irresponsible and it's definitely not the
right way to send whatever your message about

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religion is, Get on YouTube,
make a podcast like we're doing. If

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we are not out threatening people with
fire or being violent, and we're having

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the important discussions here, so