Thank you for listening to Depiction's Media Radio. Welcome to Policy Rights to show
about government policy and human rights. Welcome back to Policy and Rights here in
Depictions Media Radio. I'm your host, Michael Claggs. Prisons, Well,
should they just be for punishment or do we want to find a way to
integrate those reintegrate those people who have made mistakes in our society and help them
be better people, be better citizens and contribute to our society. Now,
there are those that maybe we can't do that with because of master master serial
killers. Maybe not. But for the most part, most crimes and most
things, we can actually rehabilitate people. And this is this is becoming where
it's becoming a global issue, and the global issue is not one of can
we really rehabilitate people or not? If he becomes of a issue of radicalization.
People are replacing the prison because of a mistake that they made and while
in prison that they align themselves or find themselves with people who have radical ideas,
people who hijack religions, hijack beliefs and pray on people who are just
disenfranchised or just trying to trying to find a way to fit back into society.
Some people are maybe angry and feel that they were treating and justly,
and they align themselves with groups that have ideas of hatred. And these people
who are promoting the hatred build on the fear and distrust that people have in
society because they've been incarcerated. This is the true global problem of prison systems
around the world, that the prison systems become breeding grounds for terrorists activity because
of radical groups that are locked inside of the prisons. Well, the United
Nations and what we have recorded from the United Nations, this is more centralized
in Africa. The problem it does exist in the United States and Canada.
When we consider white supremacist problems. The prison systems become breeding grounds for radicalized
white supremacists who want to simply overthrow whatever our government looks like because they think
that this is their country and that everyone else should submit to what it is
that they believe. Radicalization in prisons is becoming a global problem in something that
we all might want to look at how our prison systems are affecting our society
in general. So why don't we listen to This is one hour of a
much longer conversation that needs to happen on. How do we take prison systems
from being punishment to one of rehabilitation and limit the radical ideas they could spread
among eMates. Unity prevention is key, as the seeds of radicalization are often
laid prior to incarceration. This means investing in early intervention strategies that identify individuals
at risk of radicalization and offering them alternative path Education. Vocational training, and
targeted support can help steer vulnerable individuals away from extremist influences and towards positive engagement.
By addressing the root causes of radicalization, we can effectively reduce the number
of extremists who end up behind bars. For those who are already incarcerated,
we must prioritize this engagement, rehabilitation, and social reintegration. With more than
eleven million people estimated to be imprisoned globally, prisons can become incubators for terrorist
recruitment and radicalization of inmates, including those with no history of violent extremism.
We need to equip prison systems with the tools and expertise to prevent them from
turning into breeding ground for further radicalization. As prisoners feelings of despair, frustration,
and anger can leave them vulnerable to extremist ideologies, and we need to
ensure that violent extremism prisoners are treated humanely and afforded their full rights to start
them along the path to rehabilitation and reintegration into society. We must also address
the unique needs of women and children associated with terrorist groups. Women may have
been coerced into joining these groups, while children may have been born or within
a radicalized environment. And we have heard this morning for those of you who
have attended the morning session from two victims coming from a whole camp. Providing
them with specialized support, including counseling, education, and healthcare services, is
essential to prevent the radicalization and ensure a brighter future for them and their communities.
Together with UN oct nc TED, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime
implemented a global initiative between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty two to promote effective,
humane and sustainable approaches to the management of violent extremisms in prisons, guided by
the Nelson Mandela Rules on the Treatment of Prisoners, of which you a ODC
is the proud custodian in Casa Hastan. We trained over four thousand prison officers
on prison safety and security and developed a classification framework to separate prisoners with varying
security, supervisory and treatment requirements based on their risk of radicalization. We also
conducted individualized risk assessment of over six hundred prisoners in eight prisons, including one
for women offenders to taylor rehabilitation responses appropriately. In Tunisia, we established the
first ever Center for Research on Violent Extremism and Rehabilitation in the country to develop
evidence based rehabilitation and reintegration policies. We also trained more than two hundred prison
officers to improve their knowledge on the management of violent extremest prisoners while taking into
account age and gender considerations. In Uganda, to reduce prison overcrowding, we
launched a decongestion project to support seven hundred and fifty prisoners with legal aid and
address the backlog of cases of prisoners awaiting trial. We also trained over two
thousand new recruits on preventing and countering violent extremism in prison settings and trained a
further ninety five staff on the application of prisoner classification tools, which were piloted
in six prisons across the country. Risk assessments and classification tools are crucial to
assist prison staff in recognizing whether a prisoner is being or has become radicalized.
So the work that n ODC is doing makes a real impact and creates the
possibility to detect and prevent radicalization to violence at an early stage. Meanwhile,
the role of civil society has proven valuable in compensating for the gaps created by
the limited financial and human resources available in prison settings. In Iraq, for
example, we are promoting the work of NGOs to mitigate the threat of terrorists
and foreign terrorists, fight the detainees by promoting sustainable, people cented approaches to
the management of prisons. This involves providing technical assistance to the government of Iraq
to help develop skills of inmates through vocational and educational training, improve access to
justice by providing legal aid, and promote a healthy and safe environment for prisoners.
This experience has shown that NGOs can play an important complementary role in protecting
society by ensuring the effective rehabilitation and reintegration of offenders, ladies and gentlemen.
Managing violent extremism prisoners is a complex endeavor, but it is one that we
cannot afford to ignore. It requires us to find a delicate balance between addressing
security concerns and protecting human rights and due process with the ultimate aim of preventing
violence and fostering reintegration. By investing in comprehensive and evidence based approaches, we
can empower individuals to reject violence, embrace peaceful alternatives, and contribute positively to
their communities. This is needed more than ever to make progress on SGG sixteen,
to build peace, justice and strong institutions and all of the SDGs.
You can continue to count on your an ODC to support members states and implementing
inclusive terrorism prevention policies and practices so that we may break cycles of violence and
build the foundations of a safer, more resilient world for all. Thank you,
thank you, Thank you very much, Executive Director, missus Wally,
You already entered into the core issues of this side event, alighting many many
important topics and frankly speaking, so impressive what you, as usual you d
see do in this field. Without any other um waiting for, I will
give the floor to um um. Ambassador pive Cairamo, my friend, Council
of Europe, Chair of the Committee on counter Terrorism and Ambassador for counter Terrorism
Cooperation in the Midstry of Foreign Affairs of Film and PIVU of the floor.
Thank you very much, Carlos, Executive Director, Valley, Executive Director Kerman,
Ambassador, colleagues, the participants, Good afternoon. I'm honored to be
able to join this event, first and foremost in my capacity as the chair
of the Council of Europe Committee on counter Terrorism and also as mentioned Pa Carlo
as Ambassador for counter Terrorism Corporation in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland.
I am so very glad to be here with our partners from Austria, the
UNCTAD, the UNODC, the OC and I'm also very grateful to the experts
of this event for their willingness to join us to chair their experience on this
particular topic. As a brief introduction, allow me to say a few words
of the work of the Council of Europe in the area of counter terrorism cooperation.
The Committee of the Committee on counter Terrorism CDCT is the key coordinating body
for counter terrorism at the Council of Europe. The CDCT has produced a number
of important standards in this area, notably the recent recommendation of the Committee of
Ministers to Member States on the risk assessment of individuals indicated or convicted of four
terrorist offenses and we were advised as to shape by a very prominent French expert
in this area. The Council of Europe, through its specialized bodies on Prisons
and Management of Prisoners, has also developed influential guidelines and a handbook on addressing
and preventing radicalization to terrorism in prison. These efforts come from an understanding that
while there are many violent extremist prisoners in our penal systems, there need to
be special regimes to prevent them from further radicalizing or even radicalizing others in prison,
while also aiming to ensure that any radicalized individuals do not pose a continuing
risk after their release. This is no easy tasks. Research and experience in
this area continues to grow rapidly as we learn more about what works and what
doesn't when dealing with the challenges prevented presented by violent extremist prisoners. These are
clearly challenges that no institution can handle alone. Multi disciplinary approaches are needed,
requiring careful and regular cooperation with a range of professions such as mental health specialists,
risk and security experts, education professionals, religious figures, community leaders and
many others. Equally, we must ensure that our approaches to managing violent extremist
prisoners are effective, sustainable, and implemented in full respect of human rights and
the rule of law. With so many stakeholders playing an important role in managing
and rehabilitating violent extremist prisoners, we need events like this to help all stakeholder
all stakeholders to strike a balance between individual freedoms and ensuring safety in prisons and
among the general public. Just last month, in May, the Cdcity adopted
a compilation of good practices with regards to deradicalization, this engagement and social reintegration.
This resource resource provides an accessible and valuable snapshot of the main trends and
actions several European states have taken to design and implement programs and activities for violent
extremists and terrorists. The report is available online and for your convenience. The
link is included in today's agenda. Our lining expert on this effort, doctor
Ian Durnescu, is joining us via videolink to explain more about this project and
the main conclusions. The Council of Europe's work in this area does not end
here. However, the Council of Europe recently adopted its counter Terrorism and Strategy
for twenty three twenty seven, which forces several lines of work and action to
support European efforts to prevent and prosecute terrorism and terrorists and violent extremism leading to
terrorism, as well as protect civilians and states from the impact of terrorism.
The strategy identify de radicalization and these engagements for women and children respectively, and
as referred to by Executive Director Value Chas I mean during her introduction remarks,
also as a particular focus area for Cdcity. Conclusion, excellences, I'm honored
to be able to participate in this event with you, all of you.
As the Chair of the Cdcity, I look forward to engage in further on
these issues and we hope that all of you here today can find some use
and inspiration from our ongoing work in this crucial area. Thank you very much
for your attention. Thank you very much, Ambassador Kairamo. Dear by v
for mentioning, by the way, some recent work carried out by the Council
of Europe in this area. But we will listen more by our expect later.
So without any further hesitation, I will give the floor to Ambassador Elena
Kupcina Coordinator to address international threats at the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
Please thank you so much, excellences, distinguished colleagues DEA friends. First
of all, allow me to stand the Council of Europe, UNSTAT, AUSTRI
Finland and UNODC for joining forces on the important topic of managing violent extremist prisoners.
With all these partners, the Organization for Security and Corporation in Europe has
longstanding relationships and this side event is a clear evidence of this. Challenges with
terrorist offenders concern societies when responding to all forms of violent extremism and terrorism.
For the OC area, the situation concerning so called foreign terrorist fighters and their
families still detained in the former conflict zone remains a particular concern. As of
today, approximately ten thousand male ISIS detainees and more than fifty six thousand women
and associated associated children are being held in camps in Nasiast Syria. While the
terrorist insurgency in the immediate region may be currently contained, the fate of these
individuals and the associated humanity and security crisis stratns and eventual resurgence. The population
of ourhol and out Road, the two largest camps, consists of sixty percent
children, mostly under the age of twelve. While the FtF issue is mainly
be regarded as a security concern, the age composition points to an ongoing human
rights crisis affecting the most vulnerable. Security considerations by source countries need to include
those risks associated with a decision not to repatriate. This can imply a losing
track of individuals that leave the camps, allowing further radicalization and hardening of terrorist
networks. Risk can remote incitement or recruitment from the camps, feeding into the
terrorist narrative that those held are victims or Latin FtF crimes go unpunished. Again
this backdrop two weeks ag the Transnational Stress Department Action Against Terrorism unit of our
organization recently joined forces with the International Center for the Study of Radicalization at King's
College, London and the Middle East Institute in organizing a policy discussion titled Resolving
the Detended Dilemma at the OC in Vienna, covering the above mentioned questions as
well as challenges related to the prosecution, detention, rehabilitation and reintegration of form
of foreign terrorist fighters and their family members, among others. Experts from UNODC,
citad and Finland joined these discussions, building on earlier FtF related efforts such
as twenty twenty regional conference co organized by oc Uno City and Switzerland, follow
up discussions with experts from Central Asia and Southeastern Europe or the OYC or deer
guidelines for addressing FtF challenges in the human rights framework as well as on related
detention monitoring. The outcomes from this recent exchange with experts across the oc area
will feed into next steps planned in assisting our membership and partners for collaboration,
not only participating states whom we collide this in the OYC, but also partners
for collaboration in the Mediterranean Area. Jointly with the International Institute of Justice,
as the Rule of Law and Malta, we are planning a regional event in
Central Asia focusing on violent extremist offenders in prisons. Moreover, we are developing
a project for the entire OYC area, including modules on assassin risks from a
security and a rehabilitation angle, training on specific prosecution challenges and efforts in rehabilitation
and reintegration within and outside of prison. In developing and implementing these assistance,
we will be reliant also on the extensive work done by the OC field operations,
for example in Albania or Tajikistan, on improving prison conditions in general and
on addressing terrorist offendants behind bars. The OYC Office of Democratic Institutions and Human
Rights above mentioned guide book and training for independent Attention Monitors piloted last year in
Kyrgyzstan, will also be among the existing resources utilized. Sharing this strong mandate
on the FtF topic across our organizations, we will continue to address these challenges
in a coordinated and cooperative manner, thereby making best use of limited resources and
exploring synergies whenever possible. Of course, updates to the oyc's Memorando of Understanding
and joint action plans with various UN partners, as well as our ongoing cooperation
with the Council of Europe owned counter terrorism matters, set the stage for such
continued partnerships. Let me conclude by thanking the Council of Europe, you want,
SITA, Austria, Finland and our partners across the Tanube. You ODC
once again for the joint side event on such an important topic. My team
at the OYC will be reaching out to all partners in the development and implementation
of the aforementioned project proposal to make best use of the expertise on the topic
developed already at the UN, the Council of Europe and among national agencies and
civil society organizations. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you,
Thank you ambassador for your remarks. You raised one very very important issue,
of course, that we all are dealing with in our different settings, the
problem of the people kept in the camps in c Bubble and Iraq, and
also of course your numerous projects in different areas. Um Now, I will
give the floor immediately to Miss Natalia German, the Executive Director of the United
Nations Counter Terrorism Executive Directory A seated, please build the floor. Thank you
very much. The ms to Chairman your excellence is my distinguished copanaists. Excellences,
ladies and gentlemen. I'm delighted to join this important event and I would
like to thank the Council of Europe always see United Nations Office on Drugs and
Crime, as well as my own office seated for all your good work to
put today's event together. The management of violent extremist prisoners presents unique challenges to
all of us in the counter terrorism field. For one thing, it is
an area where the practice of countering violent extremism has an exceptional urgency. It
focuses on individuals who have already shown an inclination towards terrorist violence, and who
in many cases, may be due for release within relatively brief periods of time.
There is an urgency to ensure that these individuals are convinced to renounce their
commitment to violence, so that society at large can enjoy the fundamental right to
personal security. Our topic today is also unique, of course, because it
concerns a population that is deprived of liberty and the imprisonment of these individuals may
be appropriate and just, but it means they are not an opposition of subjugation.
Their treatment must be firm and deliberate that it must also take due account
of their human rights. The fact is prison environments are highly conducive to radicalization
to terrorist violence. Prisoners may be convinced that their confinement is unjust. The
restrictive prison environment is highly susceptible to manipulation by those advising violent extremist ideologies.
This is why prisons are sometimes referred to as hotbeds for terrorism and terrorist recruitment.
SEATED has been doing its part to support member states in this crucial area
of work, including through our recent joint project with UANO, DSEA and Uno
City. We recently published an analytical brief on this issue under several key findings
we have learned throughout our work. There remains much uncertainty about the scope of
the issue. Member states take different approaches to counting and classifying violent extremist prisoners,
and reliable data are lacking. However, it seems clear that the number
of such prisoners in countries around the world is growing. It is also evident
that tailored risk assessments are crucial in this field. Violent extremist prisoners are a
diverse group, which necessitates the implementation of different approaches. Although this is resource
intensive, The experts who are with US today can help to shed light on
the types of initiatives that are showing some positive results. We also know that
women prisoners require specific approaches. Women's involvement in violent extremism conducive to terrorism has
reportedly tripled in the past decade, yet their separation and isolation in prison environments
often mean that their needs are overlooked, and as I have already said,
a human rights based approach is critical in this area. It is essential that
states pay careful attention to maintain in prison environments that are humane and respectful of
human dignity in accordance with the United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of
prisoners, the Nelson Mandela Rules. The issue of management of prisoners also raises
easues regarding the rights to freedom of thought freedom of belief. It is entirely
appropriate for states to work to suppress and eradicate ideologies that support an insight terrorist
violence, but more difficult questions may arise with respect to certain viewpoints that may
not enjoy the favor of states, but that are not connected to the perpetration
of violence. Drawing the boundaries of appropriate intervention into personal belief systems by states
may raise sensitive issues, and beyond that, interventions aimed at preventing radicalization to
violence and prisons cannot ignore the underlying issues that may be conducive to the spread
of terrorism. That is not to say that terrorist violence can never be justice.
It cannot never, but effective interventions should be based on a comprehensive understanding
of the causes of radicalization. Some of these issues, such as questions of
discrimination, marginalization, poor governance, and other issues, should be taken into
account by practitioners in this field, even as we collectively reject the result to
terrorist violence. To address them. SITA remains committed to engaging with member states
through our country visits on behalf of the count Terrorism Committee and our ongoing dialect
to identify key challenges and promote the implementation of best practices in this field.
And we will continue our endeavors to facilitate technical assistance projects for member states that
request them to support them in their crucial COUNTA terrorism efforts. I thank you
and I thank you Miss Garman also for your very valuable opening remarks. I
think that the our four panelists we have which speakers will have introduced this uh
this this side event, have very well set the scene for I'm sure a
very fruitful now discussion in this in this room and online. Many many important
items have been raised already. The prevention of a course of radicalization in prisons,
the protection of human rights UM always to be taken to account the the
violent extremist prisoners UM we did not have I agree, a clear picture of
the situation in the prisons with regard to this situation, the condition of women
prisoners, many many important issues I've already been raised, and so I thank
you very much for that. Now I will open then the expert panel.
We have many important and good expects with us today. Um So, I
would kindly ask you all to be respectful of the time limits, please,
because we would like, of course to have some time at the end for
questions. Um So keep also those those those speakers also for for for the
final questions at the end. In principle, each panel is as maximum of
six minutes, and I have a powerful tool here now no no, no,
no, no, I'm quite flexible, I must say, um so,
well, without of course, uh wasting any additional time. I will
immediately give the floor to our first speaker, which is who is ambassador I
can Iraq met Toulin, a permanent representative of Republic of Kazakhstan to the United
Nation. But Ambassador, you have the floor. I think a message here
and it's quite a challenge to speak after such a nice group of distinguished and
absolutely astonishing ladies leaders. And but I will say my best and the colleges
difference. Today, I wanted to share with you experience of Kazakhstan on returning
and rehabilitating the families cities of Kazakhstan back to back home from the zones of
conflict in Syria and Iraq. And actually there is no exact number of Kazakstan
citizens who moved to city and Iraq and joined Jadis. The number varies from
eight hundred to thousand, and they joined the Islamic state. Most of them
went there in twenty thirteen two fifteen. There were many reasons for why people
started moving there and joining the ICs, slow religious literacy, the influence of
terrorist organizations their propaganda, the availability and light accessibility of the different sources in
social media, the unfavorable social economic conditions, particularly in rural areas, and
psychological factors and many others including for example, unemployment and every equipment history is
different. Each case is a combination of several reasons and factors. Not only
men left, but they were also accompanied by women and children. Many of
them got married there while I mean even the girls. The women were living
separately without the men accompanying them, but they met there and created family and
even giving birth to their children, and many of those who went to Syria
and Iraq did not speak Arabic, had no cultural historical ties with the Middle
East, and had a poor understanding of the context of conflict in the region.
How the return operation evolved. Actually, in twenty eighteen in Syria Province
there as Zoro city of Bagus on the bank of the Rat River, corned
Dish militant together with their wives and children gathered. There are thousands of them.
There were thousands of them from all over the world. The leaders of
the Halifate who had previously called for jihad, mostly Arabs, had already fled
and left them to die. Kurdish militias, with the support of Western aviation,
tightened the ring around the city more and more. That's what the situation
where hundreds of Kazakhstan citizens found themselves, those who just few years left for
Syria, befuddled by the ideas of building a world Islamic Halifate among them.
Even then, many of them, faced with reality, realized that they had
been deceived and trapped. There was no Shadia here and there never was so
there never being attracted by the ideas to follow the shadow law, they never
saw the shadow law in practice. Their amusing coverted commas for profit, not
for idology, and yesterday's gained brothers in law or in sorry, brothers in
faith easily betrayed. There was the one left a way to survive, to
give up, or to die. And they went along humanitarian corridors, surrendered
to the Kurts militias, their women and children, and all of them were
placed in hastily built prisons and refugeous camps. The conditions in camps were absolutely
unbearable, hunger, unsanitary diseases, extremely high mortality, especially among young children.
In the spring twenty eighteen, the first signals came from women. Captive
women. They started, they managed to contact their relatives in Kazakhstan, and
then they tried to organize the communication with the representative of the National Service Forces,
and all of them implored to be taken back to their homeland, repentant
and ready to be punished. Against this background, the idea of evacuating Kazakhstan
citizens from Syria was born. The evacuation opperation was conditionally named Zusan. Jusan
means wormwood in Kazakh the bush in Kazakh culture. Step Warwood is a symbol
of the motherland. Therefore, the operation to repetrate Kazakh citizen was called this
name symbolic name. I have to say that the development of operation was not
easy. There was no doubt about the miditants. They should be brought to
Kazahstan and face the de third punishment. But those but women and children,
in particular teenagers are the terrorists or who need the harsh punishment or victims who
need the rehabilitation and return to society and reintegration. There were many skepticism and
opponents of evacuating them argued that women and children should be left abroad they would
never be radicalized radicalized and therefore repetition will lead to the chanser of extremistic,
poisonous ideology to Kazakhstan. And the final decision was taken by that time President
Another Bib who underscored the humanitarian character of this apparition. The bulk of the
repetitions are children, were children women who are focused forced to leave for Syria
after their husbands, and their return to Kazakstan will eliminate the risk of them
repeated participation in terist activities in the future. And a powerful base would be
created for countering propaganda dical ideas among believers. It was necessary to keep balance
and differation, balance and differation differentiated approach. Whoever had committed a crime,
even it was a woman, would take responsibility. According to the law.
All repatriates would undergo rehabilitation and resource realization programs based on such criteria. In
the middle of twenty eighteen, massive preparatory work organisitional operation work studied. We
worked with our partners from the United States from a Turkey and through operational channels,
it was possible to reach the Kurdish militia in Sydia. The special Operative
Team was operating with local command in locating and identifying citizens of Kazakhstan and compiling
lists of returneys. It was a joint action of the Minis of Foreign Affairs
with Defense, Internal Affairs, Minis of Education, Science, the Prosecutor General's
Office and regional authorities, and a number of other government agencies, and the
first repetiting flight returned to Kazastan in January twenty thousand to twenty nineteen. In
general, there were five flights operated through nineteen two. From nineteen to twenty
one, and we repetreated six hundred and seven citizens, among them thirty seven
men, one hundred and fifty seven women, four hundred and thirteen children,
including fourteen orphans. Besides, in November twenty nineteen, fourteen more Kazak children
were evacuated from Iraq. The under age children were held in Iraq prisons together
with their mothers who had been accused of involvement in terrorist activities. The children
are aged from one to thirteen and had witnessed the horrors horrors of war and
conflict. After spending almost two years in the Rusafa prison in Baghdad, forty
five people, of them of returneys, particularly thirty three men and twelve women,
were sentenced for their involvements in terrorism. Shortly about the rehabilitation back in
Kazakhstan. In the western part of Kazakstan, in Aktau City on the shore
of the Caspian Sea, the rehabilitation Center for women and children was created and
during the first thirty days after returning to Kakastan they began their journey to a
peaceful life. They were examined and treated by doctors, psychologist, theologians,
religious scholars work with them and temporary schools and kindergartens with teachers and tutors functioned
for their children. The national identification documents were restored and reissued. The genomic
test was organized for those who were burned there. Who were not born in
Kazastan were brought there, and the end of the thirty days quarantine, all
women and children were escorted to the place where they lived before leaving for Syria.
None of them subsequently returned of puturious activity. None of them were ever
committed any theorist attack, and of course they are under the strong scrutiny of
the special agencies of law enforcement of the local authorities, including with the communities
and neighborhoods, and special tension is paid to the prompt monitoring verification of repetoise
and both in the rehabilitation center. In the post guaranting period, their service
and questioners were conducted and based on this survey they were given special you know,
conclusion and decision taken about whether they are still representing danger for society or
not. And later, based on this experience and available apparitional materials from among
those who were left first left there, eighteen women were brought to criminal responsibility
and isolated, the comprehensive program for the adaptation the rehabilitation of repetitd women and
children was developed. The program implementation resulted in the vast majority of women and
children who have already come traditional Islam, and some of them even have chosen
the secual lifestyle. Those who have abandoned radical the ideology themselves actively participate in
the country propaganda actions and regional Republican mass media. As for the Kazakh militant's
taken out of Citia, all thirty seven men, as I mentioned, we
detained and convicted, and the detentions and sentence length from eight years I think
till fifteen years. We actually don't know what would happen after this time is
over, whether they will be radicalized or not. And this wife for us.
It is also quite the challenge to decide where have they where do they
have to be kept in these separate jails, facil detention facilities or in general
facilities. So they were still work on that. So it was as I
said, it was a challenge to ensure balance between rehabilitation and punishment, and
with regard to the people sentences sentence for terrorism and extremism related offenses a set
of individually tailored rehabilitation and the radicalization activities have been implemented and initiated with particular
focus on theological, psychological, ideological, family support and the set all these
prisoner prisoners never been, never committed any kind of crime. H So you
know, to save time, I would stop here because I have much more
to savement. Thank you very much for attention. Thank you very much,
ambassador to share with us the experience An Jacson on these programs of rehabilitation reintegration
of UM these people. Now. The second speaker is doctor Juan Netschoo from
the University of Bucharest. Is also a vice chair of the RUN Rehabilitation Working
Group UM and lead author of our I mean Council of your recent compilation of
Good Practices with regards to the deer radicalization, disengagement and social reintegration UM.
Jan. I hope you I can give you, I mean, I certainly
can give you the floor. Yeah, thank you, chairman, Thank you,
thank you, chairman. It's it's excellences, ladies and gentlemen. It's
a great pleasure for me to be here and present in front of such a
distinguished audience. Can you all hear me. It's all good, yes,
yes, yes, okay. Like like any academic, I'm in love with
my slides. So I have my slightly me today, so I would like
to share them with you if it's okay, okay, So this is it.
Of course, it's okay, excellent. So my presentation will be very
brief. I will try to stay within six minutes. I will try to
share with you the main the highlights of the of the mini study that we
performed within the Council of Europe on the Good Practices um. The presentation will
have three parts, the brief history of the project, the methodology and the
conclusions. Of course, the conclusions will be a little bit more elaborated because
we really think that they are relevant for you, for Council of Europe member
states, but also for other jurisdictions as well a brief history. In two
eighteen, the Committee of the Ministers of the Council of Europe instructed the Committee
on counter Terrorism to draw counter Terrorism Strategy two thousand and eighteen and two thousand
and twenty two. Afterwards, in May twenty twenty one, the Committee on
counter Terrorism decided to initiate this to set up this working group to collect information
about the radicalization disengagement programs, So this is where the work started in May
twenty twenty one. The methodology briefly speaking of this similar study aimed at providing
a snapshot of the current programs aimed at the radicalis disengagement and social reintegration for
individuals convicted for related offenses or at risk of becoming involved in this phenomenon.
So the focus of this Minis study was actually tertiary prevention programs and interventions,
not primary and secondary prevention. The subsidiary aim of the report was assisting member
states to learn from each other and supporting the subsequent follow up activities and messaged
by the Council of Europe County Strategy for two thousand and twenty two two thousand
twenty seven. So we hope that we will build on this report in the
in the follow following activities. I MINIS study was based on four primary sources.
We had a questionnaire that we sent across the member states, and then
we had follow up interviews trying to go into depth with some topics. Then
we did a rapid literature review trying to connect to what we learned from the
field. With the State of the art in terms of research, and we
also did a brief consultation of the round collection by good Practices, just to
have a common understanding of this concept. We understood practices that were considered by
the Member States as effective, sustainable and transferable. So we really wanted to
produce something that is highly relevant for most of the Member States and even beyond
the Member State Member States Council of Europe. The conclusions, and slowly we
move to the end of this presentation. The conclusions are that there is a
significant progress in designing interventions and programs in the radicalization, disengagement and social integration.
The progress is incremental, it's it's it's step by step. You can
see progress from one year to another. However, this progress is quite uneven.
You see it quite a lot of progress in some countries, especially countries
that where the phenomenon, that the terrorist phenomenon is quite prevalent. But on
the other hand, you don't really see a lot of progress in countries where
this phenomenon does not exist. So unfortunately I do we do not see a
lot of preparation from the from the States, especially where the phenomenon is not
really present yet probably hopefully it will never happen, but one never know.
We have quite a wide variety of programs and initiatives. We managed to build
up a sort of typology of the programs. We have programs focused on single
issue or single intervention like the IRAD in Austria that is focusing on ideology only
on the radicalization. And then we have comprehensive programs like Pairs or Entree in
Sweden that cover quite a lot of activities and interventions from community behavioral interventions,
mentoring, vocational training, creative arts and so on. And then in countries
like Belgium, we have individual trajectories where all these activities are actually tailored may
to the to each case. In particular, what we noticed when looking at
these programs and interventions we saw that they are deeply cultural and context dependent.
So when we design these kind of interventions, we really need to pay attention
to the to the tradition, to the culture, to the given, to
the institutional architecture of the of the country. So copy paste does not work.
Maybe emulation or other strategies for Pino policy transfer um important also very important
to uh it's it's it's very important for these interventions and programs to have a
solid and explicit legal context, especially when it comes to the principle of multi
agency interventions, because only with a very solid legal context, this multi agency,
interdisciplinary, multi professional interventions can really take place in a kind of transparent,
well set environment. Like a new trend. Let's say, we see
more and more actors involved in this field. We see quite a lot of
interventions using formers. We see quite a lot of local municipalities involved in these
interventions in countries like the Netherlands, Belgium and so on. So I think
there are more and more actors involved in the field beyond the more traditional let's
say actors very important. The principle of tailor made or individualization, especially when
it comes to the personal trajectories, very important. Also the principle of voluntary
participation, also when the participation is prescribed by judicial sentence or something like that.
Even in that situation, it's very important to work on the motivation of
individuals to take part in the In the activities, we were able to identify
some very interesting and very powerful experiences, especially when it comes to involving the
victims and involving the communities. And I would like to share with you.
Two good examples like that. For instance, we have a book written after
the Battaklan attacks. We still have words written by the parents of two people
involved, let's say, in this tragic event. And then we have the
group work and the documentary Beyond the Tiers in Belgium. Both this um initiatives
can be found on internet and I would suggest people to have a look at
those and get inspiration from from them in terms of, you know, working
with the victims, working with the communities, trying to heal the trauma.
We still wait for a lot of progress in different research in different fields.
For example, we need more research on defining success on post exit. In
particular, I think we need to go beyond re offending and we need to
look at more indicators like well being, social integration and so on. So
we need to be a little bit more inclusive when it comes to defining success
of these interventions. We still have quite a lot of difficulties in terms of
including the gender, the human rights and the sustainability dimensions. We still see
quite a lot of good interventions initiatives that die after two or three years,
once the projects let's say ended again. Another field where we can do more
is the community involvement. We see quite a lot of concern with individuals.
We work quite a lot of individuals, but we tend to neglect their context,
sometimes their families and their communities. So this is what we learn from
this exercise. Of course, the report has a lot of details and a
lot of interesting examples, so if you if you find the time to look
at it, I hope you will be happy to do so. Thank you
very much, Thank you, thank you very much, doctor Durness Schoodia Jane,
and also for summarizing six minutes the enormous bunch of work that you have
put in this document, which I also invite everyone interested in this matter to
read carefully. Now, the third speaker is doctor Florian am A Bendinger Sorry,
coordinator in the Federal Federal Ministry of Justice of Austria. Flora is yours,
please, your excellences, your colleagues, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon.
My name is Floren Hamadanga and I'm the coordinator of the Coordination Unit for
Extremism Prevention and the EU Radicalization at the Austrian Federal Ministry of Justice. During
my presentation which has the title Extremism in the Austrian panel system. I would
like to give us some insights into our practice of dealing with terrorist offenders.
However, before I start, I would like to thank the organizers of the
United Nations and the Council of Europe to give us the occasion to present our
work at this important event in Ousta. We adhere to the following extatriquies.
As far as information management is concerned, as seamless and in the agency flow
of information is essential when dealing with prisoners, waim for the greatest possible normalization.
Prisoners convicted of terrorism Offensers are not concentrated locally. Normalization also means as
much security as necessary as much freedom as Possiblemates convicted of terrorism are not subjected
to restrictions or different treatment than other inmates as long as security concerns allow this.
The monitoring is carried out in a rather passive way, as otherwise there
is a risk of not obtaining information due to to active monitoring. Measures are
taken on a multi professional basis, including a precise risk management and legally pending
case conferences. Close cooperation with all involved authorities is always thought. However,
before we talk about measures or interventions, we need to talk about the information
management that must be precede the measures. Without the appropriate information, targeted measures
cannot even be implemented. The flow of information must be seamless, inter agency
standardized and compelled, and the panel system. The most effective way to obtain
the manage information is the dynamic security concept and conjunction with the prison intelligence concept.
So how does information management work in Ousten panetary system? The most important
aspect is the ordinary stuff because they are by far the ones who are the
most in contact with the prisoners. If essential and available information is not obtained,
analyzed and forwarded to the right contact, there is no need to discuss
measures. Therefore, the needed information about the concerning inmates needs to gather it.
If someone is in prison, you have put in jelly a lot of
information because the easier twenty four seven. The flow of information is guaranteed by
complasory reporting requirements. Prisons are obliged to report certain circumstances to the appropriate units,
for example, for example, misdemeanors, discoveries of questionable symbols, desired
outside contacts and so on. Intelligence is does ensured by cooperation between the state
protection authorities and the prison intelligence system as well as by information analysis. To
that effect, stand standardized reporting modalities have likewise been set up between the state
protection authorities and the prison administration, which just reduced the danger of information leakage.
Based on the information obtained, targeted actions can then be taken. These
can be high level as well as low level measures. The examples are set
up here. Low level measures should not be underestimated. They can be very
effective. In one case of successful the radicalization, the CSI factor was that
the inmate was housed together with the Christian I was and got along well with
him. He mentioned this in a follow up interview. So thank you for
your attention and if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact
me. Thank you, thank you, thank you very much also for this
interesting presentation. And now our fourth I mean, first of all, I
wanted to say that we will still have some additional time after two thirty four
questions, so don't don't worry about the time. I mean yes, worry
about the time, but not so worried as was planned at the beginning.
So our first speaker will be mister Wilson Francis Magomu, a Senior Commissioner of
Prisons and counter Terrorism focal point in Uganda Prison Service. But before giving you
the floor, um, I wanted to express on behalf I think of everyone
in this room our deep condolences to you and to your country Uganda, of
course, for the terrible event that happened a few days ago in your country.
Now I give you the floor, please, I thank you very much
your excellences that distinguished guests, the panelists. I will start by thanking the
organizers for giving me the opportunity to share with you the experience that Uganda Prison
Service has gone through in the management of violent extremist prisoners. We appreciate your
Messa condolens message sympathizing with Uganda. I think it was the last Friday in
the evening that we had that struggle invent where the suspected variant extremist rebel group
attacked a secondary school boarding school, and you saw what happened. It was
really a very big tragedy. I wanted also to bring to your attention that
Uganda was a manga the three beneficial countries that benefited from the global initiative of
supporting the management violent prisoners and stopping adcalization within the prisons. So on that
note, I want acknowledge and thank the following the European Union that he found
gave part of the funding. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands,
the U went counter Terrorism Center, and then you went Security Council, counter
Terrorism Committee Directorate and the UN or DC, so that really helpters really to
get into how to manage the violent extreme prisoners. Uganda prisons. The population
of prisoners is the as of this morning, we have the population of seventy
six prisons, seventy six thousand and ninety five prisoners and these are spread are
being held in over two hundred and fifty three prison units. The annual prisoners
gross population is eight point three so every year the population of prisoners is growing.
Our actual what would be the ideal restoration would be like twenty thousand,
three hundred and twenty one prisoners. But as as I have told you,
as of this morning, we have a population of seventy six and ninety seventy
six thousand and ninety five prisoners, So this means that we're holding in excess
of fifty six thousand prisoners. When you look at the staff ratio to the
prisoners, we are at one to seven, so the staff are constrained,
so what do they do? We benefit from the global the support from the
Global Initiative. One was that we're able to integrate the piece imodules into our
training curriculum. We thought that this will form the basis and act as a
sustainable way of trying to roll out the curriculum and the training of the staff.
We also developed a prison policy on intelligence. We now have a prison
intelligence in the place which is well structured and what is remaining is now rolling
out and implementing it into other units. We also developed a prisoner's classification,
a framework which is based on the risk and needs assessment of all persons that
come into prison. In the past where we have been really gambling and we
didn't know how to go about that. So now this is in place.
Currently we are we are developing an integrated reappelitation and reintegration integration model for prisoners
who are being charged of violent extremist prisoners. We have a total of one
hundred and seven to one prisoners we have been charged with the terrorism or related
decases and are out of this one hundred and sixty eight are still awaiting pre
trial they are still on remand of this we have one hundred and fifty four
who are men and we have a total of fourteen who are women. Challenges
when you follow my presentation, you'll find that we have a problem of overcrowding,
so most of the prisons are overcrowded, and that this makes it very
hard really to to engage and manage the divided extremist prisoners. So it's a
very big challenge that we have. Second day, we have also a problem
of delayed trials and most of the terrorism related cases tend to take a long
time to be right, and also the investigations are still ongoing. Further,
like you have said, terrorism in our country is active as the you have
not not too long ago, like two years ago we had the one year
one year and a half we had bombings where a number of people were killed.
Now this has been followed by what happened on last Friday. So the
active the terrorism threat is very active. And because of that, maybe it
is based on our involvement in the fight against terrorism and Samaria and also in
the dar At Sea. So we have also the challenges of now training the
staff so that really they can they can leave to the task because the problem
is ongoing and it is quite quite quite into use. So those are the
few experiences that I wanted to share with you. I want to thank you
very much for listening and for inviting us to part spent in this forum.
I thank you very much. Ultimately, the goal is to spread love,
not hate, to do things so that people feel wanted in our world and
not left behind. That could be the ultimate key to ending radical ideas,
in isolating those people who have these radical ideas as opposed to the mainstream people.
Mostlyinstream people don't have these radical ideas, and most mainstream people, it
doesn't matter the religion or the creed that they just want to live in peace,
that they don't want war or hatred in their lives. So let's focus
on ways to make the peace the love happen in our worlds. And we
want to thank you for listening to policy and rights today and listening listening to
what is it actually happening with radical ideas in prisons so that somehow we can
find a way to limit them. Please find that subscribe button wherever it may
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so that we can limit the hatred and spread the love. Thank you
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