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You're listening to KFI A M six
forty on demand. Brett, Welcome to

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the Jesus Christ Show. Hello Jesus, how are you? I am well,

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Brett? How are you? Oh? I'm pretty good. Okay,

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good to hear. And you're very
chipper for this time of day. Well,

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I work nights. Oh excellent.
So you're coming, you're coming down,

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ending your day? Coming down?
Yeah? How can I help you?

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All? Right? Well, I
have a would you consider the God

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of the Bible good? Well,
yes, well I'm kind of partial to

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that. I assume you would have
thought that I'd answer that it would be

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weird for this shows the question is
when an atheist will point to something in

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the Bible and say that that is
a sign of God's immorality, that is

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a sign of God being evil.
Yes, then they will say that you

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simply cannot judge God. But by
saying that God is good, you are

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also making a judgment absolutely, judge
absolutely, and that would be that would

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be of fallacy for the Christian to
put themselves in that kind of argumentation.

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It's it's it's not the proper way
to look at it. Then, how

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then, how can you tell that
God is good? Okay, Well,

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there's a couple of things going on
here. First, uh, when whenever

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you are in a situation like this, defining your terms is important. So

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defining what judgment is is important because
there is a difference between judgment. You're

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the same way, Brett, You're
exactly the same way. If I came

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up to you and I said I
don't like the way you did X,

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Y and Z, you'd say,
oh, you know what, I don't

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want you to judge me. But
if I came up to you and said,

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wow, that was really great that
what you did, Brett, you

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wouldn't go, I don't want you
to judge me. So it's it's it's

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important to understand what judgment means in
that context. When scripture talks about uh,

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well, scripture, when it talks
about thou shalt not judge, lest

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ye be judged, it's talking about
thinking that you're better than somebody, or

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being condescending in a way that you
aren't looking or taking an account the things

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that you do in life. You're
merely looking outwardly constantly at what everyone else

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does. It's not about justice.
Of course, you're to judge. Christians

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should judge. Everyone should judge.
I'm not saying the judgment is wrong.

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I'm saying if you're telling the atheist
that they cannot judge judge God bad,

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then you can also not call him
good. Yes, which brings me to

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my second point. So that was
just about defining the term about judgment what

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judgment is. Secondly, there's a
qualifier that's missing in that statement from the

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Christian which is why I have a
problem with it, and that is that

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there are certain things that you can't
judge God above God. Going back to

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my definition about being outside of the
judgment, So if you're constantly judging others

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and not looking at yourself, there's
a problem. The problem, no,

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I'm saying with let's let's take it. It's not a personal thing. That

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we're looking at the greater theological or
philosophical ramifications of that statement. So in

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this case, somebody is saying you
can't judge God is not actually actually correct.

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That's that's not correct. You can't
oversee judgment upon God. Man is

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not high enough. You can't actually
enforce that judgment exactly. So really what

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you're doing is you can make observations
about God and you can see those things

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in God but you can't judge God's
decisions. So that's what the statement needs.

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It needs more qualifiers to understand what
kind of judgment you're doing. You

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can't sit in judgment of God.
So for God to actually exist, yes,

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then you could not. He would
have all the powers, so you

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could not actually say You could say
that he was wrong all you wanted,

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but it wouldn't matter exactly if it
because God, God, by definition,

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is a transcendent so if it trans
respect well that's it's you know, a

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little anthropomorphic on your part if you
want to apply those human attributes and you

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want to say, oh, that
seems this way to you, but really

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you're still have to pull it down
to a human element. A mob boss

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is just a human who thinks he's
better than a human. God is better

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than a human, so hold over
you, you cannot. They are just

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doing whatever they feel like. There
is no choice in the matter. No,

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but there's a righteousness to it.
A mob boss has their own wants.

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Well, because God is justice.
There's a difference. Now you're trying

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to parse the fact that there are
human beings that abuse that God is justice.

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I'm sorry, what makes you think
that God is justice? Well,

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the show is that Jesus Christ show
would come from the generic Judeo Christian priests.

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You got to give me that one
a little bit. Pardon, you

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got to give me that one.
I mean, the show, it pretty

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much lays it out in the in
the name there, it's right there for

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everyone to see. I'm going to
come from. I'm going to tell you

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that there are things not only in
scripture, but outside of scripture that point

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to the justice and the love of
God. As a matter of fact,

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Brett, you telling me that there
are things that are good or bad in

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this world comes from where? Why
do you judge what's good or bad?

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Why do you why do you say
something's good or something's bad in life?

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For you, things that are harmful
and things that are beneficial. No,

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no, no, no, no, no no no. That's that's hedonism.

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You don't believe that because they're who
no, no, no, not

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hethism, not hedonism. If I
slam my hand, this idea that we

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can only judge things wrong because there's
some kind of ultimate standard we're judging against

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is silly. Okay, you tell
me my hand in a car door that

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hurts, Okay, But I'm not
seeing some kind of ultimate standard of non

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hurt. Okay, So everything that
hurts is bad depending on how depending on

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how it goes is everything is everything
that causes pain bad? Is everything that

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causes pleasure good? Okay? So
that's a that's a lousy standard. Wouldn't

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you say? I did not say
that, sir? Okay? So is

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pleasure good? Pleasure can be good, It can be good. So when

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does pleasure become So when does pleasure
become bad? When it becomes harmful to

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you? And what is harm if
you just sit there having pleasure all day

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long? And what is harm if
you just sit there with just pleasure all

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day long and start to ignore things
that you need, start to ignore things

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that are more beneficial towards you?
Says who says who? Well says reality

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says reality? And what context says
who? What do you? You're you're

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using circular reasoning as you go back
and say, well, if it's pleasure

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but only pleasure sometimes, sir,
if you sit there shooting up on drugs

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all day long, you will feel
pleasure, but at the same time you're

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doing pyisical damage to your body.
What if you what if you shoot up?

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What if you shoot up only partial
during the day, so maybe six

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hours and you're still doing damage to
your body. That's sort of your decision.

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What kind of damage. Now,
if you cut open a person,

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does that cause damage to them?
Technically yes, it depends on what your

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what your point is. That's that's
when I'm saying, is that you keep

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adding a qualifier to it. So
there is no standard for what is good

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or bad. You have to keep
judging whether it's good or bad based on

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what you think is good or bad, or pleasurable or harmful. There is

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no universal what is pleasurable or harmful
unless you're the one that's You kind of

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keep saying, well, I deem
this pleasurable, I deem this harmful.

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But who does that society? We
get together in gotcha. It's so it's

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the society that decides what's good and
bad. Societies generally do yes, okay.

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Are there societies that do things that
are bad? Yes? Okay,

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Then who judges that society the people
in that society. No, because they're

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the ones doing it bad. They
didn't, you know, not see Germany

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didn't self regulate, okay, and
that so that society, that society did

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not self regulate who regulated them,
the greater society of the world. I

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see. So as long as the
world sees it as okay, then it's

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okay. I cannot give you an
ultimate standard. No you can't. That's

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the point, Brett. That's what
I want you to say. You're obviously

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not stupid, so I want you
to see that all you do is push

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it upon another chain link, another
chain link, because this infinite regression of

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maybe this, maybe that, and
maybe this, and that's not how it

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works. Eventually, you have to
get to a place outside of that society

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to make that judgment. A can
in a standard measuring rod, because you

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can't just say an inch is an
inch as an inch. Somebody has to

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agree on that, and it has
to be outside of the inch. The

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measurement tool can't be the ultimate measuring
tool because it's temporal. It's not it's

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not infinite, and that's what you're
looking for, what you need. That

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is what defines it. And we
could have been here all day, Brett,

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and you would have had to come
up with one more reason. Whereas

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the theist doesn't. It stops at
God, God alone, the transcendent lawgiver,

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who is always in the law Wannie, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.

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Good morning, Jesus. I have
a question for you. Okay.

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I read a book called The Appointment
with You Always, and it was talking

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about the established and it's meant that
the established established originally was established on the

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moon cycles, and that the reason
that it was changing was because of commercially

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applies, because of because of what
commercial it applies, that the merchant wanted

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to establish a certain day like this
say oh God, okay, well,

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no, that's false. Now your
phone's a little muddy there, so I'm

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going to put you on hold because
it's kind of hard to understand, and

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I'm guessing that the listeners having a
hard time understanding. So essentially, you're

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asking about the Sabbath and that the
Sabbath was changed. No, the Sabbath

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was established in Genesis, chapter two, verse two, and it says by

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the seventh day God completed his work
which his hands had done, and he

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rested on the seventh day from all
of his work which he had done.

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There's the first sign of the Sabbath. Sabbath is the Hebrew word shabbat by

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the word for sabbath and the Greek
word Sabatan. They both mean to rest

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from labor. That's what it means. So that's where it comes from.

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And you find it also in the
Ten Commandments. You see it in Exodus

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twenty eight through eleven. But a
lot of people get the too confused between

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the Sabbath, which is Saturday,
and they get that confused with the Christian

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day of rest after the Resurrection,
which is Sunday. Okay, it's referred

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to as the Lord's Day, So
the Sabbath is still on Saturday. The

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Lord's Day is on Sunday. The
majority of Christians practice their faith and rest

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and go to church and all that
on Sunday, the Lord's Day, not

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Sabbath. Now we're there there changes
in calendars and things like that throughout the

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years. Yes, but the Sabbath
is still considered the last day of the

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week. It's not a particular it's
not a particular day per se. It's

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the last day of the week.
And that's you know, that's important because

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people get caught up in in the
Sabbath and start almost worshiping it, Like

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is this if the Sabbath is the
thing to worship And if you remember when

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I was asked about the Sabbath.
In scripture, I said that Sabbath was

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made for man, not man for
the Sabbath, and also look up Colossians

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chapter two, verse sixteen. Therefore, let no one act as your judge

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in regard to the food or drink, or in respect to a festival or

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a new moon or a Sabbath day. Meaning don't be judged by those that

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say that you have to worship this
way, or you have to worship on

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that day, or any of those
things. The important part of the Sabbath

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is that you stop that there's one
day that you stop, you rest,

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you communion with God. You should
be doing that throughout the week as well,

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but have that specific time to set
that apart, to do that and

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make it important in your life,
Lonnie, that's the key. That is

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what's most important. Don't get lost
in just the strict tradition of things,

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because sometimes traditions start coming idols,
people start worshiping those traditions rather than the

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word of God. And really it's
about you taking that time. You having

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the time of rest, you having
time with God, and stopping from working.

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That's the most important thing. To
have that time away from work,

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that downtime Vincent, Welcome to the
Jesus Christ Show. Oh Jesus Hi Hi.

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My question is in regard to the
whole concept of God. Okay,

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my banks are Christian pastors, and
so I've been raised with the Christian religion

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my whole life. I don't necessarily
agree with most applications to it. I

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think a lot of the teaching that
you brought I agree with, but when

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it comes to the institution of the
church itself, I have a lot of

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disagreements with their approach. Okay.
The question that I have regarding God is

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if God is of love and forgiveness
and understanding and compassion, a, why

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is that not reflected in the Christian
religion? And by why would there be

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such things as how or even sins
for that matter? If God was you

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know, of forgiveness and understanding.
Okay, well you asked kind of four

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questions in there. So let's get
to as many of the us as we

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can, and keep in mind that
it's very difficult. As you're a PK

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and PK's pastors. Kids often have
a difficult time because reconciling between seeing their

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parents as humans and then the words
that I have to be taught as well,

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if you imagine, Vincent, the
it's been said by a chief of

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police that the judicial system of the
United States is perfect save for one problem,

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and that is that it has to
be run by human beings. That

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is exactly the same problem with the
church. You're dealing with perfection, but

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yet those that are preaching or teaching
it are imperfect. However, your concept

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or your definition is what's at the
root of your concern. It's how you

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define these things is what you have
a problem with. You have you love,

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forgiveness, Hell, it's the way
you define them that causes the problem,

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not having them in themselves, because
forgiveness is different than reconciliation, and

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love isn't just ignoring the stupid things
people do and giving them a hug,

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which is what most people think when
they think of love. They go,

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oh, love is just kind of
ignoring all the bad stuff and just being

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nice to them. That's that's not
love at all. And so really your

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understanding of those things plays a big
part. Hell, for instance, Vincent,

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what kind of music do you hate
that you just can't stand? I'll

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the country Western? Okay. You
know what the funny thing is is that

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I asked this question on occasion,
and that's one of the top two.

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So let's say country Western. You
don't like country western, so you don't

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want to listen to it for a
half hour, do you You don't want

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to listen to it for a full
day? Do you right? You wouldn't

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want to be forced to listen to
it for a year, would you right?

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Okay, So if I forced you
to listen to country music for an

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eternity, that would be hell because
you don't want to. You don't want

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it, you want no part of
it, and therefore why would you want

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to experience it forever? Heaven?
All heaven is and I say all because

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some people like to whittle it down
as if this is a negative. All

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heaven is his communion and worship eternally
with the Father. If you don't want

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to love Him and serve him for
seventy eighty ninety measly years on earth,

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God will not force you to do
that for eternity. So he allows you

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and send you to allows you to
make a choice here on earth to not

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be with Him for eternity. And
it's called hell to not be with but

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eternity from God. And the thing
that people don't get wrap their heads around,

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Vincent, is that you think you
don't want God, and this isn't

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you, particularly the Greater You think
they don't want God, Yet they don't

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know that God even works in their
life even if they reject him. On

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Earth, God is still sustaining this
planet. So they are getting all the

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benefits of God even if they don't
know it, or at least part of

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those benefits, and in Hell they
won't have any of them. It's like

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the petulant child going, you know
what, I hate my parents. I

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just want to move, and then
realizing now they're on the streets, there's

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no roof over their head, there's
no one guiding them, there's no one

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giving them love, and now they
understand the power of it, but can't

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go back because the decision is so
respected by God that humans have the ability

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to make that decision, that it
is a final and eternal decision at the

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point of death. So that's what
hell is is somebody truly experiencing for eternity

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the eternal decision they made. That's
it. It's a respect factor. It's

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not an unloving or an unjust God. It's a very loving and very just

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God who says, I respect you, I love you. Love can only

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exist by mutual respect. Love can
only exist if I give you a choice

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not to love, because forced love
is rape. Forcing somebody to to give

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themselves to you, to physically give
themselves to you, to be a part

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of your life, to give what
you want of a situation is wrong and

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it's evil, and God can't and
won't do it. He allows humans to

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make the conscious, educated choice to
reject him for all of eternity. But

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it's like rejecting water. When you're
in a desert, you're going to know

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how much you need water. And
all these people that you come across in

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life that go, oh, I
don't drink water because I hate the taste,

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Well, your body needs it.
And it's not till you really understand

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that you're getting water in Jews,
or you're getting water even in SODA's,

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you're getting water little bits here and
there, that your body stays hydrated,

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that you're still getting that water,
just like you're still being sustained even if

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you're an atheist on Earth. But
when you're in Hell, it's like being

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in the desert without water. There
you you realize the necessity of it.

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In the consequence of that decision in
a more real way, and that's not

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lacking love in any way, shape
or form. Well, Jesus, I

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don't disagree with you on any point, especially in terms of understanding that there's

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no way around God's involvement on this
earth and with every sentient being that inhabits

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this earth. But with God's design, like you said, also comes choice.

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And what I what I have a
hard time understanding is that choice.

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You know, it's very cut and
dry when it comes to biblical principles.

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You know, if you don't follow
this, if you don't follow that,

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you're going to go to hell.
And I don't necessarily agree with that.

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I think there are a lot of
really really good people on this earth.

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Who wha wha wha wha whoa whoa
whoa good? What does that mean?

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Hy? By what standard? Is
somebody good? By your standard? How

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could you even say that somebody is
good vincent? By who? Is that

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a cultural statement that the culture says
that they're good or the populace says they're

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good. This isn't a sociological viewpoint. I think that intentions inherently can be

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good. But by what standard?
Biblical standard? Thou shalt not murder,

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thou shalt not lie, that shall
not commit adultery. By what standard do

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you say someone's good? Hmmm,
Well, it couldn't be only biblical,

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although a lot of those biblical principles
are very sound. You know, of

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course, you shouldn't kill people,
and you shouldn't do you think society should

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decide what good, what's good and
what's bad? Not necessarily, because society

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is soluble. Yeah, So where
do you get the standard of good?

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Is that just the things that you
like? No, not necessarily, because

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it's not even taste. I think
that humans inherently know what and where does

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that inherent knowledge come from? It's
okay, so why is it? This

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is what gets me vincent. You
will sit there reasonably, and I love

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that you're even bringing these things up
and that you're questioning it. That's a

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good thing. Some churches may not
think that, but I think that's a

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good thing. The problem lies in
that you're picking and choosing that. The

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question is not how come this is
the only way to be saved? The

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question is why is there any way
to be saved? Because it's undeserving.

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Your standard of good comes from God, period. There is not one society

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on the planet, not even a
cannibalistic society. There is not one society

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that believes it's okay to murder one. There's not one society on this planet

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that believes it's okay to steal.
Do you know that even a thief doesn't

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believe it it's okay to steal.
If you try and steal from them,

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they'll tell you that they they supersede
that in their own mind, that it's

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that it's okay for them for whatever
reason. I'm poor, or the world

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has handed me a bad you know, go of it, or whatever it

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is. They rationalize it, but
no one believes it's okay. It is

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inherent. It's inherent in human beings. They know that these things are wrong

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because God placed that in their heart, that knowledge of good and evil and

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understanding the two, so that they
could make a choice. They choose to

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do evil. They choose to do
things that are wrong, like they choose

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to go to hell. If if
if you're in a burning building, vincent

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and the fire department comes in and
they cut a hole that is in the

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shape of a square, are you
gonna argue with them that you'd rather go

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out a circle, that you don't
think it's fair that they make you go

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out of a square, and that
you don't want that kind of salvation.

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It's ridiculous. It's not a matter
of people. People get bent out of

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shape, Vincent because they don't want
to give up what they don't want to

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give up. They don't want to
be accountable, they don't want to be

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00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:19.559
held accountable, and they don't want
anything in their life that is at have

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to, so they continue to reject
God. And there are other religions out

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there, and there are counterfeits,
and there are all these things. But

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this is the Jesus Christ Show,
so you kind of knew what you were

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getting into as far as far as
what side I'm going to land on.

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But scripture says these things not to
paint you into a corner, Vincent,

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not to make you feel boxed in, but it gives you an out,

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and people don't do that. Wow, I'd really like to go out my

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window instead of a door. And
how come houses and structural engineering and architects

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00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.720
design things with doors. I want
a port hole in the top of the

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house because it's not efficient. And
there's a point where you have to trust

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that God created things because it is
the best way to the best possible world,

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which is heaven. But earth is
not the best possible world. And

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that the fact that there's any way
to salvation is the miracle, not that

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it just happens to be via my
death. And now you get sides and

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teams going, oh, well,
I don't that's not what I believe,

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that's not what I was raised with. It doesn't matter. It's about truth.

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That's what should be at the center
of it. Not a particular team,

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not Christians versus this group. Not
what is the truth? And when

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you're led to that truth, then
accept it or reject it and receive the

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blessings or the consequences. Sal Welcome
to the Jesus Christ Show. Oh I'm

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curious as to how you can impute
divinity or or even reliability to a set

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of documents that were cobbled together centuries
after they were written. Never mind the

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fact that they were written in some
cases, in many cases, decades after

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the events that they described. But
I'm really troubled by the fact that they

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were put together. Talking about the
apocrypal full books of the Bible that aren't

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accepted into the cannon. It seems
to me that it's a hit in this

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kind of thing. You know,
you pick one, you don't pick another,

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and then you and in the end
say well, this is what the

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word of God is. I don't
buy it. No, I don't suppose

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you do. And it's a noble
question. Indeed, what I will say,

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sal is that you've asked more than
one question. So I'll address as

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00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:49.079
much of it as I can,
because they're all they're all important in their

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own right, but they've kind of
all deal with different answers. So I

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will say this for the sake of
time. If you look at any of

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history, you've any work of antiquity, you've articulated the same thing. So

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that would you'd have to discount any
work of history, because you know,

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even Homer's Iliad, I think there's
four hundred copies, Caesar's Gaelic Wars,

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you've got ten copies, all written
after the fact. That's the way history

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happens. So it's written after the
fact. So in the case, so

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scripture is not the anomaly, it's
not the standout. As a matter of

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fact, scripture, if you're dealing
with just the New Testament alone, you

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have over twenty five thousand, not
ten, not four hundred twenty five thousand

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whole, and parts of manuscripts in
there, even building into their entirety,

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you could actually reconstruct the New Testament
save for about a handful of John,

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the Book of John by the early
church father's teachings. So it doesn't stand

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up the same way as other works
of antiquity. It stands out and compared

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to other works of antiquity. To
compare the two is silly. When you

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look at history, All of History
South is written after the fact. You

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could write something about JFK. You
could write something about Martin Luther King Junior,

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and it still holds water. There
might even be more insights that could

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be added to it. So I
don't know that that appeal to antiquity is

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the proper way to look at it. I think it actually ends up being

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fallacious. Having said that, I
think authorship can be seen in many different

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ways, and for the sake of
time all answer one that I'm hoping that

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sticks with you, That is that
you listen to the voice of something.

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Bibliographical tests are often used to decide
what scripture or what book is written by

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whom, and that's not just in
scripture. That's with any work of antiquity.

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So in the case of scripture,
you want to hear a voice.

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And if you listen to scripture of
things, it says, it's not a

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book man would write. If he
could. Man wouldn't write a book of

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rules that he doesn't want to live
by at all. He would take out

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all the things dealing with premarital sex. He would take out all the things

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dealing with the things that he doesn't
want to do. Why would he write

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the very book that he rebels against. It's not in the voice of man,

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it's in the voice of God.
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