Here all right, welcome everybody. I have with me a legend, one
of the three of the great Triad of a million Dollar strame, the one
the only Charles Carol is with me. First question, is there intentionally no
E? Or is there was that a choice that you made for artistic reasons
that that was a choice I believe a sort of a typo choice by Nick
Roachfort in one of the descriptions for one of the videos, that decided just
to remain around for the rest of my life. I think I've been wondering
about that for years. So I'm glad to finally know. So oh yeah,
so first question, So, Charles, where what region are you from?
You have a northern accent. I assume you're from up there in that
New England region. Yeah, yeah, I'm from Rhode Island, born in
Providence, like I think Cormick McCarthy probably born at the same place, I
hope and maybe Lovecraft. I think it is from Providence. Yes, yeah,
so north northeast and right right in the best mate, perhaps the best
place in the whole country and the best climate zone for the whole world in
my opinion, like the season changes, it's just the best it's the best
that you can get in the world. Yeah, I've never been up there,
and then you know, I just went up there with your bros there
recently. It was cool. I was surprised that I thought it was going
to be like a lot of the rest of America, which is like giant
ghettos everywhere, but it was. It was actually pretty a bit like that.
Oh you think so now I wasn't. Yes, so maybe Boston is
like straight up ghettos, but where we were, you know, in Providence
is pretty nice. So now you mentioned Cormette McCarthy. Are you a fan
of You read Blood Meridian? Uh? Yeah, I've done the Blood Meridian
tour a few times in my life, and it brings me, it brings
you. That's the kind of book. Uh. I like, It's the
only one that I've done like back to back, like two times in road
just because I felt the spirit, I felt the dance of it, and
I really like that one. And I I don't know, I I just
have a feeling about Providence when it comes to that book. Yeah, I
didn't actually expect that I would like that. We had a grad class where
the professor assigned it and I knew that he had done the road, and
so I was like, well, what's this gonna be? But it was
really it was it was like I viewed it I either write a paper.
I viewed it as like a gnostic allegory. I don't know if you've got
that vibe from it when you read it. Yeah, there was some There
was some Saltpeter mysticism in h in a few of those scenes, and a
lot of a lot of talk on on like tethers and just like some some
weird some things you don't hear very often. Yeah. Yeah, I took
the judge to kind of be like a you know, demiurge type of figure.
Anyway, we don't have to get into that right now. But so
you're you're a Yankee dude. You're up there in the Northeast, You're up
there in that nice seasonal climate. What were you like in high school?
Were you like a quiet dude or were you like the loud, you know,
superlative who got you know, funniest dude in high school? Or what
were you like? Well? I was I was a little wild. I'm
kind of a weird guy. I'm not mister mister popular, mister mister jock.
But I was a pretty wild guy, mainly because the uh, just
being in school at all is is you could consider it worse. You could
consider worse and being in the military or something like that, or being in
prison. It's definitely debatable. But the feeling of being in school was a
feeling of deep pain and and a feeling of my time being robbed from me
for for bad reasons. But I had I found ways to have fun and
sometimes, I don't know, sometimes it get got a little bit disruptive.
I think. So you were a what you were a party dude in high
school, not not party, just just trying just joke, joker in the
classroom, I guess. I guess the class clowns sometimes, I guess more
like that, but not no, not really partying, just in the classroom.
Interesting, yeah, because usually like the class clown is expected to be.
Like in my situation, I got class clown. But I was also
a pretty wild party dude. So it was sort of like you have to
also be the the guy that wears the you know, the lamp shade on
his head Friday night as well as you know, cutting up in class.
But we did some pretty wild, full time jump. Yeah, right,
Like we did some weird shit, like we would pull sy ops on the
school, like for example, we maybe I have to save this part for
a non public section of the interview, but one time we ran a slow
boy for a class president and he actually ended up winning. And by slow
boy, I mean you know, a person with a certain tone about him.
There you go, there you go. And we did it because we
thought it'd be really funny to undermine the popular like cheerleader chick, right,
she wanted to be president so bad and she actually literally lost. Yeah,
so and she went to the president, to the president, the uh principal,
and complained and ended up not getting you know, she she undermined.
She basically did a twenty sixteen election fraud, like she called election fraud.
Anyway, did you do like crazy sy ops like that in high school or
what were you up to? Uh? It was mostly I don't know.
Sometimes sometimes there are sophistfights with teachers. There was a little bit of that.
There was just some some stints of just not doing anything, just chilling
out, uh, sometimes doing poster boards, doing poster board projects of of
you know, some triangles and some stupid ass homework math stuff we were doing
over the holidays. I'm thinking about math work. It's unbelieving I rather have
been learning something or getting paid to do something, you know what I mean.
It's a nightmare. Poster boards with like clowns with the guns to their
heads, missiles going to the teacher's houses, presenting it in front of the
class like just like kind of like, I mean, not well, this
is this was no you know, this had to been post nine to eleven,
like fresh nine to eleven. We're talking here. So I go to
I go to that guy after you know, I graduate, I'm like,
this would you do with that poster board? He's like I had to throw
that out? Is I didn't want the principal seeing that, like he was
covering for me and threw it out. I was like, oh wow,
he knows. Can I put you good? You have like like a twin
towers that's your teacher's house, and like like missiles flying out your teacher's house.
That's crazy. Yeah, those were the days. Those are the days
like suicide just likes guns to your head, clowns changing his changing his computer
background to you know, like the the photoshop Friday days back like date at
the barn with the hitler, like Bob the builder builder putting it as his
background and walking out of the class. Like just back when times were kind
of care free, you know what I'm saying. You could get away with
a lot more in high school back in those days, like in high school,
Like fist fights were normal in high school, right, like, but
nowadays you would immediately go to jail if there was some kind of outbreak.
Then it's like a gang stop or something like that. You get your hit,
your brain's bashed out from bumping into somebody. Now I have to ask,
like, what could have led to a fistfight with a teacher? That
sounds like an insane story. Well, we have We had a sort of
rapport together over the years. I was in his classroom when they were playing
the old Uh well, if you can believe this, we were all enjoying
nine to eleven live back in his classroom. So we had a rapport together
over the years. Some C plus plus program, some Visual Basic actually,
and some just some bs. But he was kind of he had he had
a way that he liked to rise a lot of people. And sometimes I
went up my ass and I was just using one of his own jokes on
him. He's saying something like what stinks, and I'm gonna give him a
taste of on his own. I was like, Yo, it's your breath
bla back in your face. He was sitting in front of a computer.
So he gets up, He gets up, He gets up out of his
chair. Immediately, I get up right away, kick the chair out of
the way. We in the in the middle of the room. I'm kicking
him. No, no, I'm like punching his shoulder, like just you
know not. It's not a like we're not exchanging blows. I'm punching him
and he's like kicking kicking me in the side of the legs just just a
little bit, you know what I'm saying. It was it was a throwdown,
but it wasn't. No one ever spoke about it ever again. There
was never any trouble. It wasn't we weren't like pissed, but it was.
It wasn't something that ever that that never happened. That doesn't that doesn't
usually happen. But I made it happen and no one got roasted for it,
which was a success. Well, nowadays you would have to be like
a beautiful ethnic, right, because we see a lot of videos that going
viral of beautiful ethnics getting in fight with teachers. So that's really the only
time. Oh do they do they do that? Do they win? Or
what do they do? Do they use their mouth? Like? Are they
doing like stuff you haven't seen? Like the videos of like teenagers like fighting
the teachers. It's wild, oh every once in a while, but I
I don't remember. I can't think of any anyone's I don't know. I'm
sure they're good though, but they're they're good. But with teachers, it's
just the teachers out back man, right, you remember the bum fights guys,
right, Yeah, they got they got nailed for for mailing the baby
body parts out of Thailand. So good. Oh I love that. Fuck,
don't ever forget that. You crazy? Are you being serious? Didn't
know that so that the people behind bumfights were mailing body parts? Yeah,
it was something weird. I try not to remember the details, but I
was like, wow, that's kind of weird. It was so good.
Yeah, that was those guys would be crazy getting bums to fight. I
thought that was I thought that was kind of like the most obscene thing that
ever been done in my lifetime. It felt it felt like yeah, like
I don't know, it made me feel weird and I I couldn't watch it.
It was like one of those things. But those guys seem to have
a certain tone about them too. Yeah, I don't know, there's something
yeah that's that's super degenerate. So you, uh so after high school did
you go to college? What did you did you think I want to go
into you know, comedy, I want to do something creative or did you
have like a normal job route that you wanted to take or what happened after
high school? Well, I was I was a little bit of a dumb
ass in high school and coming out of high school, so I really kind
of needed college to get my brain back because I refused to do anything in
school because I yeah, but I came out like, uh well, so
I needed to do college and I was interested back then in game design,
but I just didn't I didn't feel like I just I don't know, I
just wasn't feeling it. Plus I was just like, ah, this is
I know what it's going to turn into. And you know, twenty years
or something like that. As soon as you get wrong, next thing,
you know, it's early retirement for you. So I needed But either way,
I studied literature and classics and it got me back. It got me
back up to speed all the time that got wasted on me in high school
and for my whole for twelve years fifty wasted. Oh so you wow,
that's crazy. So you studied classics at undergrad and you were gonna but you
were going to go into game development and then you decided not to or did
you do that for a while? Yeah? No, I decided either I
was either I was too stupid or I just wasn't feeling it, and things
just things just kind of segued into comedy and in some ways, but uh,
yeah, no, I just I didn't want to go to like a
game design school, like I thought that was insane. So at least at
the behest I guess of Chris Crawford, his advice from for a game designer
was to study something something liberal arts, like literature or history or something.
History is a hard pill to swallow because it's all just you know how history
is. But literature I needed to get it and it and it got me.
Uh, it got me good. You know, the mythology from the
classics and just some perspective from those old times. And mostly the plays,
uh, the sitcoms from the Romans and the and the comedies from the Greeks
are are pretty pretty essential if you, I guess, if you want to
understand the framework of modern Seinfeld stuff or whatever. Absolutely, yeah, I
uh, I had a classics and mythology grad class that was one of my
favorites from the whole time. And then you yeah, you you see the
structure, you see you know, you read Sophocles and these different things.
You start to realize how prevalent and sort of archetypal all that is. So
then you you're, so, you're out of college. What how does comedy
come about? If you're you're you were thinking video games? What what made
you decide not to go gain development and then move into the comedy realm?
Well, I you know, it just I I wasn't like going it further
into it, so I figured that I wasn't really interested. And it wasn't
like years and years. It just kind of fresh out of there, I
was like, oh, this is kind of it's like and it was different
back then, It's not like how it is now. And but I was
living with some some buddies, Eric Hayden and uh, some some of the
guys from from the Legends, you know the Legends, Uh, the CEO
rather uh. And we we just started we just started, like, I
don't know, around the same time. It's weird like around parallel to this,
Nick and Sam met up and started like working on some of their some
of their stuff around this time. This is like the pre pre days before
I you know, before I didn't spoke to Roachfort for a while. But
we just we just were doing We weren't gonna be writing scripts and and dicking
around like that. We're too lazy, like I'm writing scripts like oh man.
So it just like let's just get wild a little bit, kind of
dance around and you turn the camera on and and see what happens. And
we, you know, started doing the total improv the total improv character shoots.
I guess because it wasn't it wasn't like an exercise. It wasn't like
yes and like, it was nothing nothing like improv comedy. It was just
trying to make each other laugh pretty much. We use that technique and it
served us well for a number of years. Well, so how did you
meet those two. So Sam and Nick were doing stuff, you and Eric
were hanging out doing stuff. How did that? Yeah, meeting, how'd
that occur? Well, Erica, I met in I don't know, in
like the mid nineties or something around there. So we've known each other for
a minute and roach it it even earlier the early nineties. So I had
been friends with Eric for a while. And where it attuned to our you
know, the rhythm of our comedies. I guess we're both drummers, both
kind of married in some ways with drumming and comedy, and uh, it
just it just so happens. Like I ran into to Roachfort and around the
time we were kind of just shooting videos and putting them on YouTube, and
he's like, you know, you gotta, you gotta come over and meet
up with me. We gotta, you know, we gotta freaking catch up.
So, you know, I met up with him in Situate in Rhode
Island, and we really were really caught up. We get did a little
bit of speed catching up that day, and then, uh, and then
he introduced me to Sam and he was in the area. This is a
minute ago, I mean, oh man, And then when does MD get
birthed. Was that is this like all of the meetings of the minds and
then it births that. Yeah. Yeah, like they they were working,
Sam and Nick were working on their stuff for a bit and uh he Nick
introduced me to to Sam and we just started laughing. We started laughing too
hard, so we knew it was a thing to pursue. My first question
to you personally, and I got to talk to Sam and Nick about,
you know, some of their comedic influences. What has influenced you comedy wise,
Like what were you watching in the nineties and two thousands that was like,
this is comedy, this is funny, this is what I'm gonna shoot
four you know the best. My favorite stuff, I like Phil Silvers.
I like the Sergeant Bilco. That used to get pumped into my eyes and
at Nick at night when I was looking for cartoons and it was a black
and white TV, but it really got pounded into me. The Phil Silvers
is really I I appreciate him the most with Sergeant Bilco and that really that
really got me going at a young age. This was a minute ago.
And then you know, I was lucky enough to be around during the in
living color times which are far superior to anything I can think of, like
Damon Wayne's and all, I mean, all those guys. Jim Carrey was
in there. You remember, you remember those days. I remember that I
was in California as a kid when Fox first started putting up well, Fox
had first come out. It was pretty new, and I remember seeing the
Simpsons and then not too long after that, and they would have like it
would be like I can't remember if it was in living color or Simpsons or
Simpsons in a living color, but I remember watching both of those over and
over and over. Yep. I was like, this is this is this
is totally like nobody had done sketch comedy you like in living color? No
point, Nope, no nobody. And and the I mean these were still
pretty these were really around that same time were some pretty good years for even
SNL, like the Phil Hartman years. Yeah, and the Dana Carvey years
are pretty special in those times. So it must have been around that same
area. But nothing be in living color. Everyone was watching you know,
everything else. What else was there besides that? And uh in SNL,
I well, you guys had mentioned. I remember my parents. Oddly enough,
they actually liked the s c TV. So as a kid, oh
yeah, yeah, I had seen a lot of st TV and I heard
you mention that on one of the pgls and I was like, yeah,
dude, there's actually some there's some there's some st the top stuff that still
holds up is still funny. Yeah, it's they're the they're the best by
I always go to my dad when it comes to what I should be put
onto, and that's where the billco comes from, and not not in living
color. He didn't suggest that, but he always forever SCTV, SCTV.
He's better than SNL. I'm watching SNL. He's like, no, SCTV,
SCTV, Like, oh man, John Candy, Rick moranis John Flawery,
Eugene Levy, those days ohhah everyone, Oh those were so good.
Yeah, I remember, like some of those skits are burning in my mind.
I mean that's where I first started watching. I got really into John
Candy as a kid. He was like my favorite comedian, and then I
got really into doing impressions, probably via SNL. I was a big SNL
fan. But I wanted to ask you did you get into the state.
I remember Nick mentioned the state and I was I was a huge fan of
the State when it premiered on MTV because it was, like you know,
in Living Color, was kind of revolutionary for its time. But by the
time The State comes out on MTV, MTV was still doing a lot of
avant garde kind of new stuff. At that in the nineties, nobody had
seen anything like The State, and we were in high school. My buddies
and I were always trying to mimic and like do State type stuff. That's
how that's how wild we thought it was. Yeah, I I do remember
that. I do remember that. I I don't know if I tuned in
enough. Is that Michael Ian Black and like the Reno the Reno crowd?
Okay, yeah, so that I mean they've been they've been legends for many,
many many years. Yeah, no, okay, I remember the stage
that was MTV during like the liquid television days, exactly, exactly. Yeah.
The thing about The State is that, I mean, Renal Ninemuer one
is funny, but the State was. It was different. It was very
very abstract, sketch comedy but very smart. So it's it's different than Reno
Number one. So it's definitely worth checking out. Did you did you now
I'm gonna know you're doing stand up now, and we'll talk about some of
the venues and dates that you guys have coming up, so people watching should
go get tickets if you haven't gotten any. Did you think you would be
doing stand up? Had you ever that out before? Or is just like
a new foray for you? This This isn't the first four array into taking
it really seriously? Is we did? We did do We did step into
it back, you know, way back in the day for some open mics
just to prepare for the mini the mini tour that we did that was you
know a Brooklyn, Philadelphia, and Boston, I believe years ago. So
we did do a handful of open mics and and some other shows like in
New York. Are some some smaller stuff too, just to keep on getting
some time on the stage and all that. And there were some there was
some good output from that. But it wasn't it didn't it didn't get it
didn't get really spearheady until recently, and it never it hasn't crossed my mind
enough over the years. I just haven't. I haven't been thinking about it
because I don't know, I probably haven't been thinking one question on that that
I have is that and I've done a little bit of sketch like writing and
stuff like that. Like, It's one thing I've noticed is that the way
that you think about what's funny in a sketch or what's funny if you're doing
improv or doing impressions like, it doesn't always translate into the form of stand
up. So and the way your stuff, because it's often very abstract,
I'm just curious, like, how do you find it at all challenging to
translate that into the medium of stand up just because it's very unique as comedy
goes. Yeah, there's it's definitely definitely giant challenges doing stand up, no
matter if you're you're naturally good at or not. It's really the crucible of
of all crucibles, in my opinion. You really get to works, you
get to have some serious quality time seeing where you're at as a performer or
how sharp your mind is. It's real a really good space to get real
good at something. But I've I've never been mister stand up and just avoided
certain I don't I'm just a weirdo when it comes to either watching it or
like jokes like jokes. I'm I'm not doing you know, it's always been
something, so I'm like, I'm not going to worry about that. So
when when I approach it, it's either bombing at the open mics back in
the day, just I'm not really pulling anything off. And now I I
just tell I go up there and I I just tell I become the storyteller,
like a kind of a Muppet, a Jim Henson kind of thing,
and I just I'm just testing testing that out these days. That's that's kind
of where I'm at where my mind allows. Yeah. We were talking to
Sam Tripoli about this, and he's been doing stand up for twenty plus years,
and that's essentially what he was saying was like, really just think about
it as a storyteller. If you can move towards storytelling is probably the best
route. I thought that was pretty good advice because I'm I'm very neube at
the order of stand up. I'm pretty good with impressions and kind of you
know, this a bit balling, but it's way different when you're like,
you know, just you the mic and you know, it's crazy, it
is crazy, it's it's a it's a trip, it's like, if you
can do the audience like interaction and kind of make fun of everybody in the
audience, that's fine, but that only goes so far. Like you gotta
have more meat going on. I guess anyway, now, yeah, there's
meat right now. You are also a conspiracy connoisseur. I guess you could
say, so, Uh, how how did you go from like funny guy
to going down the route of getting really into a lot of these really deep
rabbit holes. One thing that surprised me was listening to a lot of the
PGL episodes was that, like, you're like way deep on a lot of
these topics. Not that I didn't think you were, you know, smart
enough or anything, just I didn't expect you to be like really into questioning
all kinds of stuff. What kicked you off on that that on that kick?
How'd you get into the conspiracy stuff? Well, yeah, I was.
I was never a big conspiracy guy. I always kind of questioned things
a little. But I've I've been pro just like many of the normanies out
there, and I'm we're all susceptible to these sort of things, and I
I got down in it. I guess sort of sort of after the world
Piece of Season one, stuff kind of kind of concluded in some ways,
and I was just in a in a sort of a state of mind that
required I guess, deep knowledge, I suppose, and it just it got
me into like the Trump stuff was happening, and all this and that and
all these the like that, like my mind was was wild, and what
really hit it was the uh, the frickin' the I mean, I know,
it's a joke even mentioning anything. You know, conspiracies come. They
should have a disclaimer on everything, Like everything is the product of psychological warfare,
no matter what. So if you're going to talk about it, you're
just gonna have a good time, you know. So it's when when the
like the guszaf for two point zero stuff came out like that, that stuff,
and I'm like, I'm like, whoa. And before this there was
just some Saturn you know, it's like Saturn conspiracies. I'm like this,
what the hell is this a hexagram? And I'm like, wait, religion,
uh wait, hold on a second, there's ancient religions. They wait,
ancient religions, It's possible that they still exist, Like things things like
that that you know, I'm either not smart enough or just programmed to nothing.
They never never crossed my mind that could be even remotely possible. I'm
like, what the hell I thought? This was like a different time period,
and that started, that started to settle in, and then there's like
like the weird, the weird conspiracies, the ones that were heavy, heavy
into the UH, heavy into the ultra violence. And when you when I
started enjoying that sort of letting it in, UH, it leads you,
It leads you down, It leads you down the wildest path when it comes
to trauma stuff. So it really it really opened up some some unique pathways
in my suspension of disbelief. I don't know what to call it exactly,
but it made me open to a lot of interesting ideas because the worst UH
I had already I had already contemplated the worst thing, the worst things that
happened in this world, and then like this, thinking about him, reading
about them, hmm, oh this happened to me. Oh hmm, you
know, and you're like this, you go with wild a little bit,
but it kind of it kind of gave me a speed dating session when it
came down to it. That's my that's my origin story. I'm curious and
I don't mean to get too personal, but a lot of people have a
story like, oh, you know, I did LSD, I did the
d m T and then I got super into conspiracy stuff Like was there a
documentary or did you have like a d MT experience or what kicked that off?
No, it was just it was just like a It just like an
the revelation of the politics that came out of out of that stuff during Trump,
like the hardcore like the the Island stuff in the in the you know
that, the the kill room stuff, like the hardcore stuff that. Yeah,
like that was it was such it was soaponized where you learning about it,
it like rocks you in some ways, like it's like clockwork orange like
you it makes you kind of crazy and uh, I don't know where what
the what was the question, Sarry? No? I mean I was saying,
like, because a lot of people talk about especially if they go into
you know, questioning reality itself. Oh yeah, the rabbit hole takes you
that point where you're questioning, you know, are we living in an illusion?
You know that it's oftentimes because they oh I experimented with d MT or
I did this sure, so I was just curious if you if that was
part of your story or if it was just sort of the political stuff going
on that sort of triggered the looking into the little Saint James Island and then
going from there and or so there was It wasn't really it was no no,
there was no drug thing. There was none of that. It was
just I guess, morbid curiosity, or rather an understanding on the weaponization of
things that you that you don't know can be weaponized. It was a sort
of I don't know like that that that level of strategy was was interesting to
me because it has it has all been used on myself and everybody. So
it is in some ways like the hard I don't know, like the violence
mode way of understanding why you are how you are and also what's been robbed
from you and the implications of that. It's just kind of heavy things,
but at least you can find out why you're you know, why you're weird,
the way you're weird. It was sort of like an inner kind of
introspection deal that I got in some of these ways, like I don't know,
because sometimes you're you know how sometimes the brain can be hard to crack
sometimes if you need to get to a different place, if you're stuck in
the same place. I had to do some hammer back around that time because
I remember seeing streams from you, and you would do twitch streams and and
you were kind of it seemed like you were maybe working through a lot of
these topics, you know, as you're streaming, kind of thinking yeah,
And I remember you were talking more and more about like entities and like are
they feeding on us? And how are you coming to those conclusions? And
I'm not here to critique you. I'm just curious how Oh no, sure
that, Oh I love talking about them. Those those conclusions are the ones
that I came to and the ones that I decided to enlarge in a public
forum. That was that needed to be sort of clean, like uh like
twitch or whatever, and I don't want to be poisoning people sometimes with how
deeply I can think of these things. So it was a way. It
was like a buffer that allowed me to to strain away the hardcore, the
ultra violence and instead get down to a brass tax that had that has as
much of the clockwork orange stuff of it wiped as much as as you can
because it makes you unclean if you if you ruminate on a lot of atrocity.
So I wanted to make it about about it being a game or a
war with your elf and just something that's that's proactive that I was giving.
Trust me, I was, I wasn't I wasn't trying to put out I
mean I was trying to, but I wasn't exactly putting out wisdom. I
was like giving myself advice because I was like a freaking maniac for years,
honestly, but I was intent on doing my best, not putting out poison.
But it was I was like trans transmuting that that knowledge of ultra violence
into to distill it as much as I could, to make it wisdom.
Yeah, I think that makes sense. And a lot of people talked about
kind of maybe a process that everybody goes through when they start to learn these
things. We kind of have a phase of like being shocked, and then
there's kind of a phase of feeling depressed and kind of dark, and then
you kind of you kind of cope and deal with it and as you said,
transmuted into something that makes you hopefully stronger to to you know, not
give into like pure rank evil when we see it, you know. So
I'm talking about like stuff like this, right, so this goes Oh yeah,
So what what did you find like? Was the the working through the
streams and talking it out and kind of expressing it. Was that your way
of dealing with that. Did some of the comedy deal with that as well?
Or was it like, did you read some texts that you thought was
like a gnostic text that was very influential or or what was going on?
Well, I I try to read this stuff with my attention span when it
comes to certain things like it, it just bombards me with all of these
these concepts. So I tried to stay away from too much of the texts
unless unless it's like a real conscious decision to do it. So I should,
I should dabble in a little bit more. But it was it was
a sort of a therapeutic session. They're working working through hardcore topics and making
them digestible and also having a place where I could at least get better.
I mean, you say what you want about streaming this and that, but
at least get better at at being on camera and having having myself trying to
have myself under control, you know, all these thousands of hours sometimes can
can turn you into something else. Yeah, it is really weird because it's
like my experience, the more that you live stream, the more that you
you don't feel or notice a difference between the live stream you and the non
live streaming you. So it kind of becomes a seamless thing where I mean,
this is like the normal me is the me that you see on live
streams versus you know, the way media maybe used to be where you were
playing a character and that's not the real you. And yeah, livestream itself
is just kind of a big, weird, surreal yeah wild. Yeah,
there was actually some of the literature talks about that as even like a dystopian
thing where in the future, you know, I remember in a Fifth Element
where basically, you know, the black dudes like walking around like he's like
a cross between Prince and Rupe Paul, and he's like he's live streaming the
whole thing at the end of Fifth Element. It's like, that's odd.
That was That was like mid late nineties talking about how reality is livestream Now.
I don't know. I obviously thought he must have just made it up.
He might he must have just liked the way it looked, so he
put it in the movie. You know how you know these you know the
encoding that the cinema, cinema, these the frames of light and in the
sequence, what they do to the to the psyche or in regards to hypnotism.
It's just it's just I guess it's just like a joke. You know,
it's like a it's like a joke for them. Oh, you mean
the controllers and the elites, like their view of like what movies are doing
and what they are. Is that what you're saying, Yeah, just like
so you know what they show, and then twenty five years later it's it's
even worse than what they showed, and like the worst dystopia hell you could
ever imagine people I forgot like that, I'd bomb everywhere. Yeah, it's
like a combo of like all of the worst elements of the previous dystopia.
Is that they Yeah, they try to incarnate. Do you think in your
view, like is there ultimately kind of about the top of all this,
like a malevolent, dark force, like a spiritual force? Is that what
you would say there? I guess I would would say it because it's it's
safe it seems safe to assume otherwise, How how can wickedness in this world
be be justified because it's not I'm handling. Hey, Maybe it's just random,
maybe it's just everything. But it seems like there are forces that are
that are warring together in ways that are stripped from our curriculum, you know,
during our our tenure in this world, our sentence in this world.
It seems like but you know, you really can't be thinking those thoughts because
it just makes you even a deeper prisoner. But it does seem like there
are some forces that look to degrade humanity to a point where it is humanity
no longer. And it's it's sort of irrefutable. It's not like brands or
things. These are they're sort of preordained in science fiction and in movies and
music and everything literature every for a hundred years or so. It's just it's
sort of irrefutable. So I'm under the assumption there's something, there's something that
doesn't like humanity for some reason or another. Yeah, And now, changing
up a little bit from that, the darker esoterist stuff. What as a
man of letters, what's a couple of books that you recommend always ask people
when I do interviews, I always ask them like, what's a couple Oh
sure, do you think everybody should read? Or maybe not everybody, but
maybe a couple of books that have really impacted you that maybe not everybody should
read. Oh sure, No, there's there's a handful of the classics.
There's a handful of the wild ones that I was like, whoa, whoa,
whoa. But there there are there are the ones that people don't usually
don't usually dig into, the Charles Williams and other inkling with Tolkien and Lewis
and some of the other legends. The Charles Williams I have found, at
least where I'm at in my mind, uh, to be to have concepts
in there, assuming that assuming that this that Williams was encoding his positive you
know, positive rights and positive initiations in his literature. I'm just taking I'm
just taking everyone's word for it. But it seems like there there's some kind
of I guess, some initiations in the book, you could say, or
it's like how I feel when I read certain things. Maybe that's how you
Maybe that's the bar for literature. I don't know, but I've found I
found some of those in in uh, The Place of the Lion and All
Hallows Eve, I found them. I found them to be tools and pretty
staggering in the quality of concepts and ideas in them. It was really it
was really crazy, and I reach for those. I reach for those more
than more than other things, I guess. But those I find that are
good. But there's there's a there's more classic ones too. There's I haven't
read those. I'm familiar with trust games, but I'm gonna write that down.
Are you did you read the Thesis Space Trilogy? Oh? Yes,
man, that is space trilogy. Much deeper than I expected. I thought
it was gonna be like Narnia in space, but it was like, yeah,
it was. It was a whole other level. Like I mean,
like the second book is so from a literary perspective, so profound, like
you could have like grad classes on that second book. The third one is
like total conspiracy, you know, Alien New World Order, Demon Tavistock Institute,
mind controlling kill. Yeah, exactly. I did not expect any that
whole series to go in the direction of win. I mean, the first
one is kind of like a It has some profound points, but like it's
kind of a kid's story. Second one, I mean all of the Class
six that are referenced, you know, the Fall, the metaphysics, free
Will. I mean that one is next level. And then the third one
is so conspiratory. It's just not at all what I expected it to be
when I read it. Yeah, that that was the real That's that's the
craziest thing to be a fan of of Narnia, and it's Narnia has has
some depths in you know, in in the most ways, but he's always
he's always just kind of brushed aside. I wrote the books. He was
a Christian apologist. He just wrote the books on the Lion or whatever,
who is? Who is every god there ever was? You know how it
is they just kind of push him away. But the Space trilogy has has
the real It has some real concepts in there that are genuinely scary. Yeah,
and in some ways, I mean, I'm they the Objectivity Room in
the scenes that we all remember the most, in that hideous strength they have.
They I'm guessing they are inspired by Williams and his and his experience.
And it wasn't Oto, it was it was something else. Yeah, Yeah,
it was something that was less. I don't know, he I don't
know, you know how it is with this stuff. But it had some
it had some real ultra violence, like elements of ultra violence that people aren't
usually privy to because you only get like gore and things like that. But
it was really kind of staggering to see that, to see that people can
be, you know, like Manchurian candidate initiations like that's that that knowledge that
people are can be can be invited by force? Is it? Really?
It scares you in a way. That's that's not it's it's the word has
gone for it. Yeah. Uh. Even though the third book isn't explicitly
dealing with MK ultra, there is that element to it where you can have
the degradation of the psyche through this initiation process that you're talking about, and
it does parallel very well with you know, I think when people are brought
deeper and deeper into the dark side of things, there's this expectation that you're
going to be further and further degraded to ensure that you will go along.
I mean, that's what a lot of this Jeff Say mceffory type stuff is
all about. So Yeah, it was just to see that in the C.
S. Lewis book was pretty wild. Shock. I didn't even consider
that he would even be aware of such violence, you know what I mean,
you know, it was weird. It was staggering. Yeah. And
then I don't know if you ever noticed, but in the first book there's
this last section where there's like a letter from Professor Ransom, and then you
you're supposed to think think that that's Tolkien, because there's other things later on
that point to the possibility of that. I hate n Ninia sucks well,
but that makes me think that maybe even Tolkien. Because a lot of people
will say all Lord of the Rings is just it's not intended to be any
deeper. It's actually just supposed to be a surface level. It's like a
you know, an old, an old Nordic story. That's just it is
what it is. There's not like allegorical depth or something like that. But
well, I think there's a lot more going on, like because the Ransom
character, like he says, I was reading a bunch of medieval Neoplatonic texts
and this is where I got the the story about the planet uh and the
first one, and that's supposed to be Tolkien, and then when you go
and look at Tolkien's works you can figure out, well, wait a minute,
Newmanor is supposed to be Atlantis. The Newmanorians are the Atlanteans. And
so I think he's like encoding a lot more in there with the neo platonic
stuff. And then when you when you read Silmarillion, it's like a Louvatar
and the you know, you know, the beings around him that helped you
know, govern Middle Earth and all that, that's all very neo platonic.
So I don't know what if you have any thoughts on that, I'm just
thinking out loud. Oh oh no, definitely they'll they'll dismiss him as like,
oh, he was just a really good storyteller, you know. But
I guess he had access to some hidden history books and wherever wherever he had
his cap on. Yeah, he had he had access that you just that
you can't get access to. I don't know how people get access to it.
But the Inklings were they were not a normal crowd of guys, you
know, like they they were exceptional men. You're not normal, So they
I guess because of how good they were or whatever. The hell, they
they had access, but I yeah, I guess he uh he just tell
I suppose he tells the story of of the fall of this world and the
subjugation and real, real wickedness that's behind the scenes, and pretty much everything
your roots and your history, and how devastating that is when it's taken away
from you, when you can't recognize Lord of the Rings to have real historical
value. That means like the the machine is is like greased. Well,
if you if the hero of the third this was my thesis after all of
that, if the hero of the third one is roughly speaking at tolkienesh tolken
Ish type of professor professor rantom and whatnot, and if both the third volume
of the Space trilogy is about sort of the technocratic control grid new world order
structure, and if Sorowmon is trying to incarnate and bring about this all seeing
eye, you know, a total surveillance system in Lord of the Rings.
Excuse me, sore On Soromon is using technology right to try to create this
hybrid ring. He's using a Goblin farm exactly. So it's baby, I
think where both of them are telling us like hey, wait, wake up,
everybody, here's fiction telling you about like what's really going on to just
you know, to create this hell world. Yeah, when when you've got
baby farms in your stuff back and when he published those, that's that's hardcore.
But only now do you recognize that as hardcore technology, not fantasy magic.
It's it's like it's science. So it's religious magic or whatever you want
to call it. Yeah, exactly. And then you know sore On is
like creating the machine of war and he's using technology to create uh, you
know, bombs and whatnot. So I think it's all kind of codes for
that. By the way, I found some research too that Tolkien actually had
a period where he was recruited to do British intelligence like signals. Yeah,
yeah, of course, I don't think any Lewis, Oh yeah, I
mean it seems to be a lot. It's it seems like an irrefutable thing.
No matter how glorious the figure is whatever, there always seems to be
work in some sort of an intelligence agency to uh in some way or another.
Like with Tolkien, h with the messages, I don't think I haven't
heard at all, Like I'm not saying like I'm not trying to cast dispersions
on Tolkien. But what happens? Oh, sure, so like if you're
good at languages, right, and uh, you know, he basically created
a whole Elvish language. I think he was like the top. Yeah,
they thought, well you could you could be good for like, uh,
cryptography, because we could you know, use your signals intelligence, your cryptographics
stuff in World War two? Like Johnny Cash did he do that? What
do you mean? Yeah, Johnny Cash did? He had crypto stuff back
in the day, wasn't it. He's like the first to learn of Stalin's
death. There was some sort of mythology with him. Yeah, he was
an intelligence too, I think. But no, there's always something but no,
that was interesting and yeah there's no there's no nefarious side. I'm not
implying any nefarious uh stuff with them because there's just so legendary. But there's
always there's always something funny. But those but those lines like top minds of
those times, they're like mutants. Yeah, like Superman. So I don't
want to keep you too long. We're going for forty five. I know
that you probably unknown for a laugh. Huh No, I'm down for a
laugh. Sure, a laugh. What do you mean no, I'm down.
I'm down to laugh with you. Okay, yeah, no, sorry
interrupt, No, I just did that it. You're too Yankee for me,
dude, I'm too much of a round you say, you say Yankee
words. I don't know what you're saying. Oh, okay, okay.
Have you been down to the South much? I know you guys are touring.
Have you Have you done a lot of Southern venues yet? Uh?
No, not not yet, but we're going to in a few weeks.
We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna do it up. We're gonna cross
the whole place. Had you been to the South in the past ever?
Have you been down here yet? Just a little, just a little bit
in Georgia and that's really it. Uh yeah, not really anywhere else.
Did you guys live down here when you were filming? Yeah? Yeah,
we were here for I guess like a year or something around there, so
we gotta taste. We got a taste of the environment. But that was
Atlanta, So it's not you know, it's it's Atlanta. Yeah, it's
different than the rest of the South. So did they put you up in
a I always wondered about that, Like, did you live in a like
apartment for a year or how does that work? Oh? Yeah, yeah,
we got it least out someplace. I don't I don't recall if any
of the expenses were taken care of. I don't even remember those days.
But yeah, we yeah, yeah, there's we were lived in like different
not different areas, but in different places. So to go back to a
wild days. Did you so you guys are creating, you know, what
would be probably one of the seminal you know, comedy shows out there that
would did you did you feel like it might be that or did you guys
think of it like, oh, this is our big shot, this is
a or did you think of it as like it would it would that would
be a fun I think you could argue it's a phenomena. I mean it's
like it is a comedic, you know, cultural phenomena. I think you
guys are game changers. You could say, did you have a sense of
that at the time or did you feel like, you know, it's just
our first big break or what was your mindset at that time? Well,
there's there's always a sense of of just trying to do your and tried to
become the best you can and handle handle like the pressure as best you can,
so that's it's like first and foremost to handle that. It wasn't like
any like hockeyness or afraid or anything like that, but there there was the
general It was a general feeling that that we, yeah, that that are
the way we were, had a special a special vibe to it, that
that was just nice. You know. I think that was the general the
general feeling. Did you feel like as the season was, you know,
when you completed it, when it was when it was rolling out and you
guys had good ratings, did you expect there would be probably a season two?
And like, was it was that pretty much in the bag early on
or was it always oh yeah, No, No, always just figured it
just because of the strength of of how good everyone did and how well it
was handled. No, I just figured that that there would be more action.
But you know, things were things were getting you know, the politics
and everything, know how everything turned into like a just turned into a madhouse.
I was gonna say, it's a wild time. Right around the time
when in everywhere else in culture we started to see in in media like more
and more clamping down more and more. That was like canceling was really like
ramping up, did you guys, Yeah, examples were being made. Yeah,
exactly did you feel like that was coming for you or did you think
we'll we'll slide under the radar? Well, you never, I guess you
never assume you're gonna slide past the radar just because you never you never know
who's gonna have it in for you. You know, you just you just
can't calculate those things, So there's just no way to know. So I
guess you just have to try to have faith, I guess. But yeah,
no one ever really assumes that a way to do something. Had you
guys had any like pushback prior to the canceling that made you think like maybe
that's a little too edgy, or like, did you have any like controversial
sketches or anything that people said was they went too far? I think it
was just the usual. I don't know. Yeah, nothing, Yeah,
none of the I guess any sketches that would be a big problem, I
guess weren't aired. There has to be some, but even so, they
I guess by people would really have a problem, they probably would, But
no, nothing in the show really felt was too controversial, So having been
such a I would say early example of cancelation. Like, what, looking
back on that, do you feel in a lot of ways vindicated, because
I mean it's I'm not I'm not saying it was good that you guys got
canceled, But in the long run, it's almost like like now you guys
are kind of like getting revenge via you know, internet fame, infamy popularity
in a kind of a backwards route, you know what I mean. Sure,
Yeah, yeah, I guess that's that's sort of that's sort of a
fun that's a fun way to look at it. And yeah, it is.
It is nice. It is nice. But I think I think that
there's a feeling of gratitude, even more of a victory lap. There's a
there's a gratitude of being even allowed to exist. I think that that that
is just that is just in the air at least if you have intelligence,
you know. So it's more of it's more of like being happy that it's
happening, as opposed to like the hell every with everyone that said, you
know this is that you know what I'm saying. But no, so it
is it is nice, It's really it's fun. Yeah, I mean,
I'm happy to see you guys doing well. I know you guys just finished
season two. Do you have any any updates, any hot leaks, hot
data that you could drop on us in terms of In terms of that,
how do you feel about your role in season two? It was? It
was fun. It was wild to get back in the saddle, So it
was. It was a real good a real good experience in a learning experience.
Just to just to get back in the saddle, it was I had
to just do it in a in the best way possible. So, uh,
it was. It was great. It was fun, it was hard
and good. So that's how you know it was great, and it was.
It was a really good experience. And I just it's just shocking.
It still shocks me that it happened. I'm still I'm still shocked by it,
you know, even after a while, I'm still shocked that it happened.
I'm grateful that it happened. And it's really really a special a special
thing and a momentous thing. It truly is. And I I think it's
gonna be out soon. It's gonna be it's gonna be a matter of like
a handful of months or something like that. So that's the last I heard.
Like long, do you think that if you had done a season two,
if you had not gotten canceled back then and done a season two,
do you feel like it would have come out the way it's come out now?
Or do you think that what all you guys went through and then that
time span between as it made it better? H I It's definitely it's definitely
a lot different than would it than what it would have been. Uh,
And I think everyone has gotten better, So I can only say that the
many years in between season one and two that everyone got better and uh,
and who know, I mean, who knows what it would have been like
back then. But it's it's kind of it's good. It's good surviving years
in comedy and and being better or getting better instead of like going all the
way backwards or something like that. So it's it's kind of like that.
You a last few couple questions here, and then we'll talk about your dates
and where everybody can find you and get your and get tickets to you guys's
upcoming events. I'm curious about your creative personal process, like what what inspires
you? Like how do you go about getting inspired to come up with the
kind of zany you know, oddball stuff that's your style, Like what is
are there certain things that maybe music like for me, like certain music it
triggers me, It gets me in that mode, like what's your creative process,
my my process. I attribute it to an obsession with notepaking and making
sure that things that you find funny are are remembered and somehow used. That's
I attribute it to the habit of always having your eyes and ears open and
your mind open to funny things or something that your brain could could pump out
out of nowhere, like when you miss here a word or a phrase that
blows your mind what you heard instead, like if you have your mind in
the habit of making things funny, perhaps like intentionally mishearing things, you get
into the spirit of of finding funny or generating funny. If you're in that
habit of always being open to it and making sure you write it down,
that's what I That's what I know it's from. Yeah, that's definitely.
I always regret like all the times I'd never I was too lazy to write
something down that was a really good idea and then you end up forgetting it.
I think we're created people. That's a very important thing is to write
it down. Yeah, you can get overwhelmed and inundated by nothing you can
that does happen. So there's there's also the other side of the of the
of the coin, but to not to not catalog the stuff you think is
funny like it does, I don't know, just it builds a muscle when
when you write it down or you try to remember it, you know,
it's like does something to you. And I know we talked earlier about some
of the sketches and and and shows that you found influential on you. Who
are some of the people that you think are like the funniest people? Like
who's the some of the best in the game? Like who really? Who
do you like really think you want to shoot for in terms of like I
want to be like that dude, he's the funniest dude. Who's the funniest
dude or man? Who I like? Uh geez hmm. That's a that's
a hard question for me. And it's not it's not because I don't like
people. It's just I'm trying. I'm trying to have like a good answer
that's like fun or something. Who is damn who blew my mind back in
the Yeah, it could be somebody like back in the day you were talking
about how how you thought Rick Moranis was really good. Yeah, yeah,
for real. That's that's the best example ever because by Blue having him and
Steve Martin is something that I've watched as a child and it pounded into me
and some of the sc TV and who knows whatever. You know, he
Rick Moranis was you know, he was an along those days. Yea,
my mom had that VHS of Yeah, heavn't. I watched that a bunch
growing up. That's the That's one of the best of the whole bunch.
I mean people Rick Moranis used to be utilized. Those were the best days.
But I remember that like the Sam Kinnison days. Uh, he probably
I'm sure he probably died maybe before I was. I have no idea,
but I remember that being played on on you know, like Comedy Central or
something. I always remembered it, or remember my dad talked about him.
He's the guy was always screaming with the hat on. Like. People like
that blew my mind way back in the day. I wish I had some
better answers though. Oh that's great. I mean I think people overlook,
uh Rick moranis I mean people most people today like you. I mean,
I know you know this, but like most people today they don't know what
SCTV is. They never heard this, right, So yeah, it's it's
a tragedy. It's like it's it. It's like it's disappearing, like it's
it's like it's nowhere, Like where do you even get it? You can
find quite a few STTV skits on YouTube, but like I just think like
everybody basically thirty and under has never heard of STTV. They don't know where
it is. So it's cool to hear you bring it up. So yeah,
he's really the best appreciated Charles. I don't want to keep you over
an hour. Really glad to have this chat with you. I've been wanting
to have this chat for for years, man, So I'm really thankful that
you you say, thanks so much. Yeah, I've I've been wanting to
do it forever and I and it's finally here. And this is only the
beginning, because I'll tell you, because you know, there aren't many people
that understand the reality of real war. So it's it's a good place sometimes
it's a good place to go down if if you ever, if you ever
wanted to but the literature everything, it's always good to laugh with you.
I really appreciate you invite absolutely, I'd like to chat against some ton.
Now, tell everybody like the best place for them to follow you know your
stuff. Don't know if it's Instagram or your Twitch or like what they can
follow you on all those I'll have all those link below, okay, here
on the channel, and then tell us your dates and upcoming events with you
and and Sam and Nick. Okay, sure, yeah, Well these these
can be found at sam hid live dot com and these are the shows as
they get put up here. And we're we're off to Tampa, Florida on
May twelfth for a six and eight thirty show, and then Boca Ratone,
Austin, Fort Worth, Los Angeles, or many nights in Los Angeles.
It's crazy there, but I think there's gonna be some more stuff added.
So that's that's where the tickets are. Sam hid live dot com is where
you'll find the merry companions who are we're gonna be hitting the road again real
soon and you can yeah, I'll get I'll get my links to put them
in the bottom there, but you can. I got to change my names
on my channels, like it's now it's embarrassing, like I'm like this,
oh man, I gotta spell out. I'm like, oh man, like
I'm I just got to change it to like I don't know, like I
can't even say the word that I would change my own channel to if I
could, you know, But I'm at, yeah, it's yeah, there's
some famous words. I would change it to the famous th n W already
the N word is the new channel. Yeah, that's me, that's me.
But I'm on YouTube at Charles carol One Numeral one Charles with at THEE
do the Palace every Sunday with the CEO, Eric Hayden, and I do
some real bizarre solo streaming on there. Sometimes we get some games. Sometimes
we go through rabbit holes. But I got a gum road going that's got
the archives on there and some crazy stuff that like some audio plays that I'm
putting together, just trying to just trying to be all I can be after
all these blasted years, you know how it is. Yeah, No,
I've had to go through being canceled and censored and demonetized all that I'm my
entire website and means of income deleted in twenty eighteen, so yeah, I
know what that's like. Perfect. And by the way, y'all have all
those links here below, so guys, if you're watching, check that out
down below. And yeah, I bought tickets I think to the Tampa event,
So be cool to say, how do you In person? I'll say,
oh nice, I'm looking forward to Yeah, hell yeah, it's gonna
be crazy. Everyone's getting so good and having some like getting loose on stage
learning it's it's so nice. Word awesome. Well, thank you so much,
Charles, appreciate you sticking a whole hour with me, and uh yeah,
God bless you, and uh I hope your hope your your stand up
venues are sold out out the wazoo. Hell yes, thanks a lot,
Jay, thanks, thanks for the luck wish and God bless you as well.
And I'm I'm down anytime. Let's let's make it so okay man. Thanks