Facula. I'll see you later. Yeah, Count Dracula. Mister Bob,
Hey, hello everyone, Yeah, what's out, Jim Bob, how's it
going? Congrats? Congrats from a real person, not Jordan Peterson. Hey,
I appreciate it, man, and it's great to see you're You're killing
it, dude. I'm trying. I'm under the microscope. I have two
strikes, so it's it's got two strikes. Yeah. I can't like keep
up my streams because it because I don't know what YouTube is gonna, you
know, do to me. So I have to wait September twenty nine.
Those fall and then I'll be saving stuff again. Yeah, well I don't
The thing that stinks is that it's not even so much. Oh, I
don't know what YouTube is going to do to me, because you don't violate
any of the terms of service. Yeah, you don't say anything crazy or
anything stupid and like hateful or anything. It's a certain community of people that
just want to silence you, which is funny and ironic because well, well,
the funny and ironic thing is that those people in that community, they'll
tut how their person is banned from YouTube, and then if they get you
banned from YouTube. I mean, shouldn't they trust you now right? Yeah,
shouldn't. Yeah, it doesn't. Don't don't expect any consistency there the
philosophy, if you call it that. Yeah, but yeah, thank you.
It's been it's been going good. And making it into more of like
a show is cool. You know, we can't all just talk theology,
you know, I'm not equipped to do it, but certainly having you guys
on or posh on. But what people do want some more like lighter stuff,
so I'm kind of going into that into that direction. Yeah. Well,
your production quality in your thumbnails, dude, all the stuff is thumbnails
nails. Yeah, yeah, I think you should call her by her title.
Oh yeah Meg yeah, meganger or Meg no no, no, my
producer, oh my producer. Yeah yeah, my producer does a great job.
Like they you know, they're very hard, but they expect a lot.
Yeah yeah. Yeah. You were talking before, David about how your
other channels, how you could just do some new age stuff and blow up
or you know, and it's I really related to that, how sometimes you
get frustrated with the slow growth and you put too much meaning on the on
the growth of things, and then you realize, well, no, you're
you're accumulating really good following. So you know, as long as your engagements
up, you know, if you hit two hundred k and you only have
like, you know, thirty people in your chat and there's no engagement,
you know, it doesn't it doesn't matter anyway. So it's cool that a
lot of these like yourself and a lot of these surrounding channels are actually their
engagement is actually up regardless of their numbers. You know, on the set,
well you, you and Andrew do a great job. That's something that
uh, just talking with people who follow my stuff, and this is probably
true for Father Deacon or even die or to some degree, although Dyer does
the Impersia personations and stuff while he's live, which gives an incentive for somebody
to be there live. And I asked somebody. I was talking with somebody
privately and they said, oh yeah, man, I love your stuff.
I think this was in a one on one and they're like, I always
watched the replays, I never watch it live. And I was like,
oh, why is that? Because I don't need to. I can just
you know, I love to watch the whole thing from beginning Ton and just
listen to you talk. I was like, dang, I need to do
something to get people to want to be there live because I get so many
views after it's posted. Where you and Andrew kill it with the live engagement,
Well, you could go door to door like the three Mormons that just
came to my car. Did you get their number? Now? I said,
listen, I'm live on the internet right now, okay, And i
gotta tell you about your cult that you're in right now, so you need
to leave later, I'm gonna be hunting a wild boar from a helicopter.
I've got to they are, you know. And he looked me in my
eyes, my alpha power, and he decided to turn away my alpha power.
I turn on my alpha power. I am good and I'm Alex Jones.
And I'm not saying that you should. I'm not saying that you should
fly right over your ex wives house and your helicopter with a r I'm not
saying that. A Jay Dyer story that So in what was it July?
The first week of July, we were back in California for this event,
and my parents were up here in Montana at the time, and so we
had my parents and so he actually hosted Alex Jones at the previous house that
I lived in when I was in California was my grandmother's house. And it
was hilarious because we didn't have any internet at the house that we were staying
at my parents because there had been gone in Montana for a while, and
so it was so funny to see like Jay hosts the Fourth Hour with like
all this like old Granny China. Anyways, it was the next street over,
so Jamie and Jane and I were walking and guess who we see walking
through the streets The Jaws. And I was like, oh, here you
go, Jay, here's our chance to I'm like, what are the odds
that like jade Ire and myself are like in the same place. And the
Jaws stopped by, and He's like, I don't want to talk to and
I'm like, I'm just messing with you. Then I started. When we
got back to the house, they actually came up and I was getting my
surfboard. I was gonna go surf while Jame Jamie rested at the house,
and they came up and I'm They're like, can we And I'm like no,
I already already know everything. You're gonna say, can we leave you
a pamphlet? I'm like no, And I was so tempted to be like,
you know, but there is somebody at the house. He's really you
should have Yeah, I know, Jay would have been upset with me.
He would have, but that would have been a healthless story on later than
he can fill it up, like, yeah, I can't believe he did
that. Yeah, that would have been great. It would have been a
great story. But a laugh. I failed once again. You know,
before before we even heard they always send those jws to our house. And
they stopped sending them because Andrew converted three of them away from it with a
shot. Mean surprisingly, No, just send them down over coffee like Andy
does and put him to the question and just get them to question all of
the things they were telling him. And like three, you know, they
send them in pairs. Three different sets of pairs of young men that had
come to the house ended up leaving the church. Stop sending them, huh,
They'll send higher people up so the next time they can answer the questions.
And once they realize that, like they can't convert you, you get
on the black list. It's like the no fly list. Oh no,
we don't go through that house. People go in, they don't go back.
We don't go to that house. There they went, they ended up
converting to at least it was probably Protestant Church because that's what where we were
living at the time and everything. But at least they got out of that
and at least they went to normal twice. The third time they come as
a carpet cleaning service and they're all in yellow, and then while they're there
then they start pushing it. Patrick, I was gonna say, you were
talking about, you know, engagement and stuff and thinking about you know,
people saying that they watch your streams later. I wonder if, because with
a live stream, can you, uh someone tell Codal can you turn off
the Facebook and YouTube blog in uh what? I don't know about the face.
I think he's talking about the stream yard like permissions. How do I
change that? But I was gonna say, Patrick, I don't know if
on YouTube when you do a live can you trim the end of it afterwards
or is it just all or nothing of what stays on YouTube after you do
a live stream, you can trim it well if you want to. You
don't have to trim it. But like, I'm not telling you two or
anything, but maybe what you could do is you do in your normal talk
and then maybe truncate it by like thirty minutes or something and be like,
okay, like live Q and A people can come on, you can ask
questions direct about this stuff, and that maybe could be a simple avenue at
the end of a talk to I don't know, get some more live engagement.
I don't know what your chat thinks about it. Yeah, I need
to come up with some more. That's why I was doing the open forums.
And actually Jim Bob and Andrew the ones that gave me that idea.
It's I'm the one that gave you that idea. I gave you that idea,
I said, pass it on to him. I told I'm responsible for
Jim Bob's career. Guys can stream to their own and in children and the
happiness thank you. Un click that, they say, yeah, I'll click
authentic. I don't need thanks, all right, Ja, I think you're
good, bro. Uh. I wasn't familiar with that, but I just
unclicked the guests must authenticate, so I think we should be good. I
didn't really, I didn't even realize I was a setting. I didn't know.
I didn't know where we were gonna have that guy. Come on.
I thought, this is supposed to be like a celebratory, like happy kind
of thing. It was supposed to be. But you're trying to produce a
new show for DPH here his streams. Yeah, exactly, exactly. No,
I was just giving it. I don't know he was asking. He
brought it up anyway. So I think if you dye your hair and and
you just start listening to how I tell you to dress, I think things
would get a lot better. Well, you told me just to wear nipple
tassels in my next stream. That was That wasn't for a That wasn't for
a public stream. Oh that's Governor Quama that does that. That was for
you. That was for my That was for my membership talk. But whatever,
dude, that's fine. So I hope you stay because this is an
intervention for Jay's meanness online. You know it's funny is that you remember remember
ben CABE's like crazy Jake, You remember Ben Cabes ben CABE's schizophrenic like conspiracy
Shart. That was just connecting like you father and anis me Jay Rachel and
like and like father Turbot and people that were friends with Why don't you just
screenshot like any stream like doing that? Look, I figured it out.
They're all associated. Dude. That thing was wild. You sent me that
Webb he has I mean weird. That was wild, Dude. That was
intense, How intricate that was. I was just defended that they thought that
Patrick and Jay were the bitter misogynists because that's my grift. I am the
bitter misogynists around here. Okay, Like, let's get that straight. Yep,
yep, Jay, what up? Bro? Hey, I've been listening
to all the gossip, so so you know, you know why we're here,
Jake talking about you all the backbiting. I'm pretty sure the Bible says
something about backbiting. But Jay, we're here because we care about you,
okay, and we all have stuff to say. Your actions are affecting people
beyond yourself, They're affecting us, so you know we wanted to get you.
Are there Zoom Interventions. I have a program that mutes all the haggards
automatically. So it's time this interventions going exactly. I thought you need that.
It should it should be a downloadable freeware than everybody can install pretty easily.
Excellent, excellent. Andrew will definitely be interested. Yeah, no doubt.
How's Florida, man, it's great, it's humid. We we are
learning the hard way that when you order things from Ikea, it's not as
easy as you might think. So basically I thought we'd save money by getting
Ikea fornenture and basically it takes days to put it all together. So yeah,
it doesn't come with a person to put it together for you. That's
what I was like, a little like a little lover bot that comes that
comes with it, that you know, kind of hangs around and keeps you
company afterwards. But I guess not. That's why you drive by home depot
at like eight am and you can get the Ikea people there to help you
put it together. Would be awesome. I feel like came with a little
Danish like her isid Dan sweet, a little tiny Danish man. Yeah,
it comes with a person got to take them. I thought by a Danish
it meant the pastry, but it meant a literal little Danish man. No,
No, I'm accidentally a human trafficker. Again. This always keeps happening.
Just slip up. I make one mistake. I was just trying to
order a cabinet from Wayfair. Well these nikes were three grand I thought that
was normal. Oh gosh, so well, congratulations on twenty k man,
Oh thank you man. I was gonna say, I was gonna tell you
things because part and parcel of the Channel was just all the help that you've
given over there. Now four years. I can't believe I started the channel
four years ago, but I really appreciate all your help and Jim Bob and
Andrew, you guys have helped a lot and grow in the channel. Jay
can't even remember when he when he hit twenty k. It's just a memory.
No, Actually, it wasn't that long ago, because Jim Bob,
you were on my fifty k, and because I remember making the fumbnail.
The thumbnail had a crazy Nicholas Cage face and it was me and you and
the boiler room crew, and that was fifty That wasn't too long ago.
That was probably twenty eighteen. So pretty nice. Awesome. Well that's a
short yeah, wow, that's a big jump. Well, I don't know
four or five years, so, I mean, I thought I was talking
about austerity and tiny living in a band, I'd have a million subscribers because
that is how I make eggs on a tiny stove. The twenty it was
the Revenge of the Nerd stream with Larry Nichols. Look at that bla he's
got like archives, he has the Yeah, he has the dire archives.
My mom told me I'm all autistic, and I said that, what are
you talking about it? She said, I don't know nothing. He turned
away. Are you telling me this when I'm twenty seven? Yeah? Jay
had to sell all his book Jay doesn't have any books left from the background.
He had to sell them. This move, well that was all green
screen anyway. We all know that, right. Yeah. I was just
gonna say those were never real, dude. Now there's now one small bookshelf
over there in the corner for the we're down here. So I did order
at Flamenco. There'd be a Neon Flamenco back here. So yeah, I
had to come up with something. And gaming we're talking about, why don't
you just put like a put something Florida themed? And I was like,
oh, I guess, I guess it'll work. I thought, to accelerate
your growth, you're going to do the TikTok NPC stuff. I did it
very well. Did you remember you've been doing it regularly as like a job?
Okay, yeah, have you seen the guys that I told Jay one
of the dude there's a there's a buff dude that does it and they like
flexes his button muscles and stuff. It's what does he show his face?
Ever? Yeah? Okay, awesome, what's his handle? I went,
interesting, that's a liable? Okay, interesting? Yeah, is gonna make
Vegan coming on the c And he's like, if you want to go see
my only fans and flexes horrible Canadian boys, He's yeah, and he's always
depressed. He's always like super dirt. He's like, if you want to
see my glorious Bonnie, you can go to my only fans. Vegan Gaines
cracks me up, and I thought it was kind of funny. A couple
of debates back on the Crucible, he was debating someone and I called in
and I and I called in like this and I go, Vegan Gaines,
I just really want to thank you really brought the energy tonight. Everyone was
up on their feet just like cheering, and I just talked talked like him,
like just really really monitored and kind of depressed. And at first he
was all ears. He was he was very interested at first. It was
pretty funny. He tuned right into the monotone depression. Saw that saw that
be twelve. You know what I'm saying, keeping him going what I seem
Dude, I feel like he probably lactates with all the soy he eats.
That's a different channel. That's that's the only that's not for YouTube. That's
the only kind of quiet over there. Are you? Are you regretting being
on the stream? What's going on? He's not even listening. He's got
a muted He's like, these these children are weturnishing your public image. Jay,
there's there's a huge lag. Was looking for butt flex and beta on
Jay. I told him the story about me getting that close to sending his
witnesses to you at the house and and uh, Orange County. Oh when
we were staying at your parents, I've been there. Wild things happened at
that house. Yeah, that's right, kidding everybody, but yeah, he
said, it was fourth of July. We went up on the roof and
then I guess the next day, Father Deacon said that Joe's witnesses came by
and he was going to send them over there to talk to us. That's
I don't or what happened, and you didn't do it. Yeah, I
was just we were walking. We were walking back from when you hosted Alex
Jones from my aunt uncles the street over and I saw them walking around.
That's right, that's right. And then remember I went to go surf and
they were They came up when I was putting the board on the car,
and I was about ready to say, like, I'm not interested, but
there's somebody was telling me inside that they were like really interested, really interested
in here's his phone number, watching, there's his address, send him a
lot of watch Ower literature every week. Yeah, yeah, well I did.
Probably Beacon should be lying that he knows how to surf or anything.
Uh me, I got me and doctor Mo he has a video of this
man trying to find that that wasn't stir I know good boarding, kimboarding.
I had mastered every sport life. I'm like, yeah, I can do
this. And notice the clue should have been like they're all fifteen to eighteen
years old, well, everybody. The clue should have been like you never
see a skin boarder. So yeah, so we were what was it Memorial
Day or something like that Memorial Day last year? It was the bit it
was when Michael got back. Guys in that church and your god children.
Yeah, that's right. It was a beautiful day. And what it's crazy
is I had already pulled my pulled my back surfing because you think like you
stopped doing something for like a year and a half and you think you can
just get back to where you're at, and it's like my muscles were bad.
But anyways, we were out and we were having fun and having drinks
and beautiful on the beach. It was really great and I was just thinking
about that. I like, I've never tried skimboarding and we're watching all these
kids and like I said, the clue should have been you never see a
skimboarder over eighteen years old. No, they're all like super young kids.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, I've got this. I'm like it's
pretty easy. So I went up to these kids, I'm like, you
know, I can serve, I can skis you know where I can do
all this stuff? Like how hard is this going to be? And you
have the time, you have to throw it right at the right time when
the waves are coming up, and then jump on it and stay on and
I just I ate it. And I was trying not to fall and you
can see in this video that I'm trying to pull it together, and I
eventually fallen. I landed right and I broke my wrist. He was messed
up for like a really long time. I got the video right here.
Actually, yeah, watch it. I have it on slow most it's like
twenty five skins. So it was so great that you put on slow moo.
Yeah, it made it. It made it a little more action packed.
And the kids when he came up to the kids and uh, I
don't know, you guys will we were probably four or five mimosas and four
whiskey him. At that point. It was tequila mimosas. Bottom there was
we were going. We were with all the wines bottomless. Sounds like they
had just finished drinking their mimosas while they finished chapter three of Eat, Pray,
Love. So naturally they went to the beach and then we went to
skin board. Obviously went the skin board with the kids. Yeah, okay,
here we go. I'm not gonna play the audio, but here is
uh whose hair is it? Here's the slow mo. So he's running.
He's like, oh yeah, I can definitely do this. I can definite
for that. Over guy knows what's happening. Oh the kid, kid loved
it. The kid knew instantly. Look. Oh no, so you can
see me trying to recover. I'm like, oh man yaikes. He walks
back. Yeah, so right after they you see the kid island. He
walks back and hands the skin board back. He's like, oh yeah,
yeah, I think I can get it. And he turns them to me
and Michael, I think I broke my wrist. That should be your membership
videos. Yeah, yo, he'll membership alert video. He walks back over
to them. He looks at Patrick. He goes, did the kids think
I looked cool? Yeah? He's like, okay cool that er, what's
up fellow kids? And he see he takes the skin board. Hey can
I try that? Well? It's like Arrest of development. Remember that scene
where there's a guy that the dad always has that dude dude stage like an
accident in his hand comes off and he's like, and that's why you don't
skim board after mimosis, right, David Patrick, What do you think your
your favorite or most successful video that you've done now looking back, Well,
the one with most views is Jay destroying Reformed Protestant Theology, which actually that's
one of my favorites. The basis for that stream is really interesting too.
This was a while ago. You can see what year was. I think
it was twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. Number three? Did it finally
top emj because it did? And I was talking to this girl just like
it was actually Jim Bob you did. It was the girl that you talked
to you like, hey, you should talk to David Patrick Harry about like
romantically, all right, do you remember this like a couple of years ago?
So I talked to with her on the phone like one, and she
was cool, she was very nice, but she was all about reform theology
and she went to was it Rick Rick Wilson's church in Moscow, Idaho?
And and I text Jay something about something she mentioned something or a book about
theology I wasn't familiar with. So I text Jay and He's like, oh
yeah, oh yeah, something about that. You know that stuff's retarded.
I've debated that a thousand times, Like you want to do a stream on
it. He's like, yeah, tomorrow, He's like two o'clock. I'll
be there, all right, and he just annihilates Protestantism for like three hours.
Yeah. Oh, you know, everybody thinks that I'm Doug Wilson's daughter
now because I think, who, I guess she wrote a book about like
patriarchy or feminism or something too. I don't know if she did, but
and she they're reformed. I'm like former reformed. So it's very weird at
time, Like I love your dad's work, and I'm like crucible Rachel Wilson
versus Rachel Wilson. Let's be happen. Yeah, let's do it. Wilson,
your most popular videos Patrick are with Jay with Jay and then I'm number
three. You guys, that's crazy, dang, but I don't get but
I don't have tons of views. I don't have a single video or fifty
thousand. I look, you're looking at it. I'm number that stack.
No, there, I think you have some that are up there. Where's
that reform video? Because when I when I dropped the popular, go to
live, hit live, and then most popular. If you go to his
live and then hit popular. Yeah, you're that one's forty two K.
Yeah, it's it's two and a half hours long. Did people call into
that one? No? No, I just prompted the topic and Jay just
went yeah. But then I sent it to that ship that one and that
was the end. Yeah, yeah, that was hilarious. But I gotta
I gotta do some TikTok NPC stuff for whatever you guys do to get some
of these views, because I get this. I have some subs. I
mean, we're celebrating twenty K, but I mean Jim Bob kills me,
Andrew kills me. On the live viewers, Jay dominates. I mean,
Jay, if you go live, dude, my channel is defunct. Like
I can't. I you went, I did a stream? Was that?
The last one was with the guy on Psychedelics wrote a book, Lewis,
and had it, had it scheduled. I was ready to go in like
an hour before it goes live. You scheduled to stream. You had seven
hundred live. I had seventy, and I was like you son of a
bite. A lot of times I forget that I have a thing scheduled and
the person's like, hey, we're ready to go, and I'm like oh
crap, and then I have to hop on and do it. So it's
like, you know, I'm not trying. I'm not trying to like sniper
streams or anything. Have you considered blackmailing him and telling him not the screen
at the same time, Jay, last time we were hanging out in uh
in June, Jay was telling me about his secret of how he grew his
channel and stuff, and basically it comes down to this entity called Ball that
that Jay was telling me about. And maybe Jay could talk more about this
and Hower B A A L and they kept bringing up mammon. Interesting,
actually worried about this. And when I was in Laurel Canyon, you know,
I used to drive through there every day. Stuff. We want to
talk on this, Jay or just gonna not gonna help? Is Chase talking?
I said, that program's running, so I don't hear anything. Well,
David Patrick, your your stuff. For the most part, it's very
informative and concise, and it's almost like people they want to get all the
information and and all understand it. So you're actually delivering almost like a like
a class in a way. And so in a it wouldn't be conducive too
too much live interaction even though you would want that, But the question is
would you really want that? Would you be would it add to it if
you had to be taken away and interact with the chat? I feel like
I feel like designing a specific stream that's all about interaction will bring in live
interaction, but your value isn't necessarily compatible with some sort of like wild you
know, chat. They're there to listen and that's why a lot of people
watch your stuff, including myself if I can't catch you. It's all about
catching up like an like a volume of things that you're catching up on.
It's almost like reading a book. And so maybe designating a specific stream where
it's all interaction with with the audience and having people on or whatever. But
yeah, that's kind of a strategy for this next year or so. I
want to do more of the open forums like you you recommended, and more
the the ones that get the most engagement are, like if I do a
TikTok cringe review stream where I just go on TikTok, put in a title
like new Age Gurus and just go and like watch, those get the most
engagement. I'll spend two days preparing research for something and then Jay goes live
an hour before and I'm like that son of a bitch. See, I
think what I'm noticing the problem here in a lot of aspects in life.
I mean, especially me today noticing, you know, my car is having
trouble, you know, like trying to save up money and things like that.
And then everything you're bringing up the common threads always JA being the issue
that's true, you remove the wrong guy just saying from the stream, I
know, I hope it's coming back. La, we want you, bro.
I don't you know. YouTube's weird because there's not It's hard to figure
out exactly how the system works. Nobody can ever really decipher it, and
they always change it. So one thing I think that is possible. Some
of the videos that I've done that have gotten a lot of views, irrespective
of like live streams, they usually top out at like ten or twenty thousand
views. I don't get many that go beyond that. But the algorithm,
for whatever reason, favored the three videos that I did like top ten reasons
I'm not Protestant, top ten reasons I'm not going to Catholic, top ten
I'm not atheist. The algorithm has really promoted those to where they're like seventy
seventy five thousand, and they keep being promoted and I never get that on
a live stream or anything like that. So what all of the common alley
with those is that they're all ten eighty and they're all forty minutes long.
So I think the shorter amount of time I try to pack a bunch in
For whatever reason, the algorithm like that. I'm not saying it doesn't like
long form. I just think that it kind of tops out because if you
look at you know, how long people will watch your streams, Like when
I look at the stats, it's like the maximum, like most people are
there like twenty minutes and they're out right same mind's usually right now. I
think that's pretty much probably for everybody. So like I've been uploading my fourth
hour of Valdimort and those get about the same as the live streams. They
gettingwhere from ten to twenty. So it's it's like it seems to be the
sweet spot is like the forty minutes for a lot of views, or maybe
even twenty minutes for a lot of views. Yeah, I have I have
a clip that has two hundred and forty two thousand views, on Andrew's Crucible
Limited channel. It's a thirty minute clip from a that debate I did with
Nina If you guys have ever seen that, and it's just me like asking
her if she could like go out in an ice storm and put the power
lines back up. It's that clip and that one for whatever reason, it
just triggered the algorithm and it went nuts. And I think it's what Jay
saying. It's like that right in that time frame. It's got certain buzzwords,
words or whatever. Long is it like thirty minutes thirty minute clip from
like a too word of it. It's Rachel Wilson schools feminist on why women
can't do men's jobs. The other thing, too, is that on my
channel since I've been demontized in twenty eighteen, there's no advantage for me other
than to get views by doing the short form content. So for me,
I might as well do a live stream because that's the only women I have
any super chats, right, there's no ad revenue for anything else. You
know why they did that? Do you remember? It just doesn't make sense
to me demonetize you, like, how did that? Yeah? I know
it was an old boiler room where I said t R A N N y
oh, and it popped. It popped up in twenty eighteen, and my
channel has been demonetized ever since. Wow, Okay, that makes sense.
Why you spell the words? I need to be more careful about that.
No, it's not just Jay's autism. Where he actually I'm just remember trying
to remember how to spell. Yeah, he's working, he's working on that
in my head. I'm gonna head out here. But congrats Patrick. You
know your videos have helped a lot of people. They helped you know,
my godson, My god son loves him. He's been impacted by your videos.
I know some bunch of Catechumans at my church. One of my friends
at catechuman at my church. He's coming from a very nastic hippie background.
He devours your work. It helped him a lot. He's a Catechuman now.
He was an inquirer for like six months. Your work was very helpful
for him. You know, I'm really blessed to blessed to know you as
a friend brother in Christ. And you know, continue going and I hope
people continue supporting you and continue watching you know, Jay, Yeah, whatever,
everybody else good, good to see you guys. Look at those crazy
guys right now, that's from the seven copies today. They're not actually that
crazy, But I just I just like the eyes. You looked almost like
Arnold Schwarzenegger in What's That Marks, What's the What's the Mars? Yeah,
total recall where his eyes pop out. All right, Well, god bless
guys, have a good one. I chase see you next month. Yea.
Well, Jay, I had a question in regards to like the difference
between sort of lecturing, because I feel like you similarly talk about topics intricately
for long periods of time and Jim Bob's too, but both you guys can
do like a personations, you kind of can keep it light while you're doing
it. Was that never starts rapping just yeah, exactly, he just starts
freestyling. Was that a conscious I mean, was there a conscious curation on
how you get engagement during live streams or how you go about structuring a live
stream? No? No, no, I just always like when we when
I was in high school, we did a lot of uh. I was
in on the drama team, and we always really favored improv, so we
we did a lot of improv stuff. So that's always kind of been what
I've been into my forte and live streams just work out great for me because
I can just I do minimal planning. Like we you know, we watch
a film or something. I have a lot of notes, but half the
time we don't even pay attention to notes. We just kind of riff on
it, which is you know, to me, that's that's more fun.
But I mean when it comes to the more serious lectures, I mean,
yeah, there's there's stuff like I've got right here, like when I'm analyzing
all these Peterson talks. I mean I've got like fifteen pages of notes from
Peterson CGI scream again. Yeah, So I mean it just kind of depends
on what I'm talking about. But like, if it's Peterson's an analysis stuff,
I want to I want to go a little bit deeper critiquing it.
Then I've got a lot of notes and it's fairly structured. But you know,
the movie live streams they're not that structured. But Jay, aren't you
at the level you can? You might? I know a lot of us
have been pretty aggressive with mister Peterson, But wouldn't you say you're at the
level where you can you can have him mom? Would you would you have
him? Mom? What you would he do it? Think he would do
it? I don't think any I think when anybody like affiliated with Daily Wire,
my my guess is that they're told not to be in the domain of
anyone conspiracy related. Okay, so my guess would be if you're associated with
Boltimore, then your conspiracy interesting, that would be my guest. But I
haven't really like actively sought to have Jordan Peterson on an interview or anything.
I wonder if what that threshold is, because DPH, you're definitely you've had
adjacent to him on pretty close to him on. I mean, that's interesting
is that Jonathan Pigot is in that arena, but he's not quite Daily Wire,
but he's in. He's like in the soup, and you know,
he's fine going out. So I guess I guess the control happen. You
know, well, I think you know, Peterson's at another level of you
know, he's got a pretty fat contract with Daily Wire. I don't know
that Jonathan has one. I don't know, but so I would imagine the
concerns are a lot more stringent on who you're associated with. I'm just guessing
yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, what made you decide to
do a deep dive into Peterson because you kind of already done. I mean,
he was just popping back up on everybody's radar recently because of a lot
of the Red Pill stuff. People, you know, Rollo was critiquing Peterson,
and so I thought, well, you know, I've never actually watched
his lectures. I never watched the Bible stuff, I never watched maps of
meaning, I never watched the psychology personality, and so I thought, you
know, he's not going away anytime soon, so I might as well be,
you know, familiarized with the course one at least one or two courses.
So it was just something I chose to kind of work through. And
actually a lot of what I was reading in different books was also kind of
tying into some of the stuff that he was covering, like Carl Young and
whatnot. So yeah, it's I've been watching your your critiques and stuff and
knowing you at least, you know, back in the day when we first
met, you were you were pretty brutal. But I'm watching you. I'm
learning, uh, to be less brutal like you can be. You could
be sharp, but you don't have to, Like, you know, I'm
kind of a dick when I'm critiquing someone, and then I just got mad.
I think that Jim Bob, like, you're really good at critiquing and
doing impressions and being funny and and my the way I've always understood impressions and
make a fun of people in critique, it's like it's in it's not coming
from a malicious place. It's part of like, you know, like if
somebody did a critique of me and they were personating me, and you know,
Christian Mario did a video where he was making fun of me, and
I thought it was really funny, right, It doesn't. It's not.
It doesn't seem to. But but most people nowadays, especially like the younger
people like zoomers, they think that, oh, if he's impersonating somebody,
he hates them. Yeah. They interpret everything is hate and like why do
you hate him? And it's like, I don't hate the guy, just
number one, I just disagree, And if I do an impression, it
doesn't mean I hate the person. It's a really weird everybody's like super sensitive,
you know what I mean, yea all the time, all the time.
Why do you hate yourself? Why do you hate all women? Why
do you hate? Yeah? I get this, you hate impersonating means you
hate. And it's like, even if you sit there and explain, well,
I actually I agree with a lot of these points. Yeah, but
you still hate them, you know what I mean. The other thing is
that if you criticize somebody, the only reason, the only motive you could
have for criticizing, is that you're jealous. That's another annoying thing. It's
like, oh, you're critiquing doctor Peterson. Somebody's jealous, right, So
why can I mean, I can appreciate the things that I agree with,
I can't I critique these other classical liberal ideas that disagree with Hey, so
I have a question speaking about the Zoomers because I find them fascinating. There's
a lot of good virtues about them too. And but one of the things
I try to use in class when teaching philosophy to be humor and comedy.
And it's in part just kind of an experiment. I'm trying to figure out
their psyche and what they find humorists and how to teach in a more effective
way. And they're strange on humor. It's really really weird the things that
they think are funny versus not. And then also I just get shocked,
especially because I'm a I'm a gen xer, and as a gen xer,
whether we liked it or not, we knew every generation's movies and music,
right, yes, and yep. I was making a reference the other day
and these were some you know, even older maybe even going into uh millennial,
and I referenced, uh Julia Roberts movie Sleeping with the Enemy, never
heard of it, and I was like, how is that even possible?
And aren't all of us the same age? Except for Patrick. I don't
know, doctor Mike, what your ages, but I think I'm a month.
Yeah, all of us, All the rest of us, I think
are born within like the same year ish I was born in nineteen eighty right
here, nineteen eighty yep. I mean I can speak to this about the
zamers. I can speak because I deal with them every day. And they
told about your viral clip too, by the way, Yeah, we'll get
to that. Well, I'm keeping it separate, but it's it kind of
speaks to this, which is that somebody took a video of me at the
end of class, like I play music, and somebody asked me to play
some music. So I played this rapper and it's like a three second clip.
You can barely see me in it, but you know, it went
viral like meg, you know, for for here, mega viral, And
and I got recognized in real life yesterday out in town by you know,
some twenty year old. He was like, ain't you that guy? And
I was like, yes, it's me, and it was like you famous,
and it's because somebody tagged, you know, somebody then they tagged the
rapper. But like with the with the humor and with the references thing,
it's like you gotta count on the fact that they haven't seen the film.
They don't watch movies. And what's funny is that like when we were young,
you know, older people would say like, you gotta you gotta stop
watching TV, right, it's gonna rotch your brain. And people now,
especially boomers, will say that to them and they're like, what what TV.
They don't watch television at all. They watch anything. It's a it's
on a phone screen. And humor has to be like very quick, like
if it's not funny in three seconds, then they have no idea what it
is, and they don't get the references because you know, they have access
to everything at any time instantly, so it takes out the searching for that.
That's what I thought too. And the Internet's tail, so I knew
it was connected to the internet because when we grew up, you know,
you had like later you had cable TV, but like everything was, you
didn't have the options to choose, and they couldn't hone in that. You
had the radio, right and it just played all this stuff. So to
have this kind of choice, so you were exposed to all these different materials,
whether you liked it or not, at these different genres and different music.
And now so not only can you choose what you want, they're actually
directing and honing in on their market. And so you're right, it's it's
almost like it becomes like specialized. It's so specialized that it like it turns
into these little hubs and if you don't get the reference of a hub just
adjacent to you, it's like it's it's over. And then add what what
uh base let's just said about the you have what thirty seconds to win someone
over with with laughter. I also wonder if the more there's a relationship between
the more utilitarian a society gets, the less useful. They'll even see comedy
like maybe they just don't value it as much because it's so passive and constant
and except for propaganda, I mean, look, well yeah, yeah,
it's just it's which isn't funny, and that's why it doesn't work very well.
Yeah, I mean think about tyrannical, top down communist regimes. I
mean, how many comedy shows do you know from those regimes? How many?
How many funny movies have we had in the last twenty years, like
really, like I can't a good comedy like maybe super Bad, Like you
know, we asked sand there, we had Eddie Murphy, we had like
and just go back. It's comed He's been part of American culture along time.
In these last ten fifteen years, it all wokes. People are scared
to be funny, Like there's a new stand up like the older stuff.
My kids now are starting to like the stuff that Andrew and I watched growing
up. And it's so weird because my oldest is twenty two, my youngest
is eleven, and the difference between the two, like just in that you
know what eleven years is insane? Like what what the oldest one thinks is
funny versus what the youngest one thinks is funny, and what they're all into.
It's it's weird having like this span of children within this time frame because
I can see how much things have changed just in this decade, right,
just based on what they're into and what they like. And Yeah, one
of the things I noticed going to Europe just real quick, the zoomers.
You could see cultural differences when you went to Germany versus Greece, Firs America
with the older generation. But one of the things I noticed that anybody that
would to me that appeared to be zoomers had the same type of like eighty
style gene, the same air Force ones or the retro new balances. It
didn't matter where you were. It's like the social media is have created a
global culture, and I think that most people just haven't realized that people that
age are participating in something that is unifying different language groups and they're buying the
exact same stuff. Kids are always going to have their their own language,
you know, their que unique way of saying things. But it used to
be local. It was like local, and then it was maybe your state
like California people would talk differently from you know, on the East Coast,
and then like things like MTV and stuff, it kind of started to you
know, unify that. But you're right now it's completely global and in a
way, a lot of the stuff it's you know, it isn't their fault
if they don't know any difference that they don't know any better, right,
I mean music, If if somebody didn't make a song within the last six
months, they fell off, it's over. But they don't they don't they
don't know any difference they you know, and they do have there there aren't
good quality a lot of good qualities to to like younger you know, younger
people. And one of those that especially older people don't know is that like
when the carunka stuff happened, then there was all the lockdowns and everybody had
you know, they had to stay at home and all that. Kids came
to classes at work, so they didn't go to school because they weren't allowed
to go to school, but they went to work and they would be on
a zoom call like stacking you know, stocking shelves that wherever they worked,
or you know, listening while they're at you know, McDonald's. But they're
still in class and they still try. So I see that as you know,
they do the best they can and try and you know, get along.
And they don't really complain about stuff. When they complain, they can
complain a lot, but most of them don't really spend time complaining, which
I think is you know, it's pretty good. The other thing too,
that's a virtue about them. First of all, uh, there's hope when
you do expose them to stuff that they haven't been they're actually open to it,
which is nice. So they're not completely you know against you know,
being exposed to other stuff. They just had the way society is and the
way that we live today that they just haven't been exposed to it. But
the other thing it's really nice about them too. They've been able to see
the kind of failures of the propaganda machine and stuff like that, and even
failures of other generations, and so in some sense, you know, in
one sense, they can be you know, we all have our areas that
were gullible in but they're uniquely able to see and cut through a lot of
the bs, especially with like the Kronka and like that, that you really
don't see in the other generations, maybe a little bit in gen X,
And I think that gen X and gen Z are a good herring together.
I've noticed that too, that it's like we get them. So there's something
that happened in our generation that's going on that allows us to be able to
hear the gen Z and relate to them and understand and vice versa, right,
which I think is a great thing that And like I said, Wimers
and millennial they just they don't understand and kind of relate to gen Z at
all. That's interesting, now, X would that be characterized by like MTV
culture, what characterizes the eighties regards like cultural standards eighties nineties? Was like
what would characterize that generation like that would potentially connect them with the Zoomers.
I was thinking of, like a break from traditional media or something like that.
Like what I feel like it was for me, Like because I'm gen
X and my kids are gen Z. It's like I was in the whole
grunge punk scene that was around late eighties, early nineties, all that kind
of stuff, and we were like very anti establishment, didn't have much trust
for authority or media. And my kids have grown up in this era of
like you know, the corunka stuff and the lockdowns, and they don't you
know, with the how do I say this on YouTube? The process by
which our leaders are chosen? Do you know what I mean? Like that
everybody is kind of they don't buy it at all. They're just like,
you know, they're like, that's all a dog and pony show. And
I feel like millennials still kind of believe in that, and like the old
the boomers still believe in it, and it's like my generation and theirs are
both kind of skeptical. I think it's like a skepticism and like a rejection
of authority type of a thing, which is a little ironic, I guess.
But the Woods ninety nine documentary This out right Now is a good illustration
of that. Have you guys seen that? Yeah, yep, I remember
being super into that stuff back in the day. Well, and how much
of that like free I grew up o social media until I was like eighteen,
right, no cell phone, I was like seeing so in those developmental
years, the millennial at them had this weird shift right where the extras grew
up Like without a cell phone, you guys knew directions and then the millennials
were like ride between that. I knew some directions, I knew some cell
phone numbers, and then I forgot them all. And then zoomers were like
completely introduced to technology only so the millennials like caught in this crossfire of like,
well, I kind of learned how to you know, how do I
live without a cellhone? I learned how to do that, and then I
learned that I use my cell phones for everything. Now where these zoomers are,
like, I wonder if you gave them directions by like following roads like
three barns to your right, you know, like it wouldn't have any idea
what you're talking about. Yeah, I actually look at the generations like you.
It's almost like you can't separate a generation from the tech. So I
try to look back, can go, Okay, there was a generation and
that generation all shared. Let's say what the walkman was. Now, technology
at the time didn't shift. There wasn't like a walkman one year and suddenly
a cell phone. It was a whole decade. To get decades of one
technology that brought everyone together or multiple technologies, and that you could actually you
could actually look the technology and then define the generation that way, which is
interesting that they name technologies with the terms generation, right the new generation of
the this phone. But then what happens and I don't I haven't like really
fully exhausted this. But as the tech gets better and smaller and cheaper,
and the generation of tech comes out faster and faster, it's almost like you
can't segment the generation anymore the same way we did in the past, like
you as a chunk, like, oh, I'm the generation of the of
the record player, and then there's the walkman, and then there's this phone
that comes out and now and now the generation. It's like, can we
even point to a what a generation is right now if we're looking at it
through the lens of technology, and I don't think we could. It's almost
like this big like as Jay refers to it, like a big like a
when we talk about like a technology technologically based monism model where everything's one thing,
it almost looks like that's where it's going. Even even for us who
try to make distinctions and try to keep some these universal categories in check and
stuff. We look at it and we can't. Can we point to a
generation now? And I don't know if we can, whereas referencing the past,
of course we can. Where we're a part of generation, you'd have
to have a radical change. You'd have to have a radical change and a
jump in technology. So I think that's what you're saying, is that kind
of speeds up. There's nothing we can really point at that, like,
well that was a huge kind of change. Now what's the next generation?
Is an alpha or something that people belowsy back to a yeah, back to
And I was thinking about that too. I was thinking about this just the
other day, and like, well, what's gonna classify? What's gonna classify?
Then what's gonna mark? I don't think it'll be an event, It'll
be a generations. Yeah, generations And like in literature for instance, used
to be defined by either the ruler or like the overarching paradigm, right the
the neo classical era or the Victorian era, and then the generations used to
have this backlash against the previous generations, sort of a you know, equal
and opposite reaction thing flockdowns that goes Yeah, it's like it's like, yeah,
it's like postmodernism, you know, being like uh, you know,
the a bomb to like the Big Nine and then the Big nine to Coronco
or the great you know, the Great Reset or some other huge event.
So then it's not the tech. Then it's like, there's an event,
then the tech is the medium in which we communicate the event with each other.
But so it was the tech, but it's actually not the tech.
It's like, what's the tech that came? Like World War two gave rise
to a lot of different things into the boomers, and there was a lot
of tech and those a lot of things developed in the war, right the
expediting of the radiod and that all came out of the war. Like what
how much did the world change because of the virus? You know, just
being you know, I just communicating on our phone right now. If this
were five years ago, this would have all most likely been live, Like
most people don't even do podcast live anymore. Like that modernism, Modernism itself
is kind of defined by tech. You know, it's the it's the end
of the Victorian era and then it's into the Industrial Revolution and modernity and that
kind of comes to a head. Like World War one is an example of
you know, has I don't know if it's tech gone wild, but it's
it's an example. You know, you got to hank and aviation and chemical
warfare and all these things coming out, you know, automatic gunfire in World
War One and then World War two. You know, the sort of defines
the end of that or the beginning of postmodernism with the a bomb. But
yeah, for them, sorry go ahead, no no, letn't mean to
interrupt you. I was gonna say. Based on what you guys say,
and connecting the Boomers and the millennials, it's like the Boomers are that first
TV generation, the Millennials are the first computer generation like desktop computer generation,
and then the exers and the Zoomers are sort of in between these two crucial
points of transition where uh you know the Zoomers, Yeah, they're they're the
smartphone social media generation. But that's like the miniaturization of the computer and a
repackaging of it. Yeah, look at who uses the various things right,
like you know TikTok for instance, Zoomers are TikTok. I mean they're that's
that's how they define things. That's like my knees they chat, yep.
But boomers also love Biombers also love TikTok. Though, you know they love
scrolling TikTok, you know, just the infinite scroll. I feel like people
my age, I don't know, you know, I like never go to
TikTok. I just don't have any interest. And that's fine. If people
do, I just you know, it's whatever. But zoomers also, you
know, they're on YouTube and stuff, but like Facebook is they're like what,
they don't care about that, whereas boomers love Facebook, they love it.
Yes, if you look at these things that you're talking about with the
technological shifts, so like World War One, right after that you see radio,
but you also see the end of like kingdoms and the beginning of nation
states as like the predominant thing, right, and then you go to World
War Two, and you see right after World War Two we switched to TV,
the Boomer generation and television, and you see more of this like un
noblest stuff coming in. And then my kids, when I do homeschool with
them, we do a little section on like the Big Nine event and how
that impacted things because my oldest daughter was like six months old when that happened,
and Andrew and I can kind of look back to that and see,
like see that as like a dividing line in our life of like before that
and after that, how the world was completely different. If we talked to
them about what life was like for us in the eighties and nineties versus after
that, it's totally different. And so we kind of teach them about how
that happened and the propaganda that was going on, and how the technology shifted,
and how now we have this national security state that was ushered in by
that event. So you'll see this big event along with a certain type of
technology, and it ushers in like a new era and a whole new mindset
along with a new culture. You yes. And one of the interesting things
with this is how quickly people sort of I mean, Jay's talking about how
like being you know, boomer is a mindset in many ways. And it's
interesting how one minute you're young and you you know, old people treat you
in a certain way, and the next minute you're the old person talking about
the young people in exactly the same way. And I was wondering, are
we boomers? I was gonna say, I didn't want to ruin it for
everyone, but I was like, is there a neo neo boomer? And
is it us? And we're just like, hey, we're talking about this
stuff and the kids are like, I'm told every day, every day by
my kids that I'm a boomer. Just you guys, if you want to
know what it's like to be forty three, Yes, I'm constantly told I'm
a boomer. What's that? Here's the great here's another great thing about being
a philosopher. I just tell people I transcend those categories, right, I
can actually give an objective analysis of all generations. Why because I have a
PhD behind my name, that's why. That's why. And because we were
all born in the last millennium, so we're ancient. Yeah, right,
But I'd also think there is born in hundreds. Oh my gosh, you're
so old. So for me, and I assumed a lot of you guys
were similar that, Like when the technology changed in the beginning, I think
it's genuine. I remember like when YouTube first came out, I thought I
could go there and the propaganda hadn't infected it yet. So how much does
that play into the radio the TV? Right? Once you know, the
powers that be can see this seemed like huh? Or whatever degeneracy can tap
in and use it for its own agenda. Like you know, I remember
watching David Ike, you know, two thousand and eight and whatever. He
may have had his agenda, but I don't think YouTube had affected it.
So I had the YouTube's known those band in twenty eighteen, like I was
banned before Alex Jones completely banned, Like I was talking about the Ukrainian Ukrainian
uranium deal. This was pre Trump stuff, and I talked about some other
kind of weird things, you know, maybe two hundred sus. That was
before they striked me. They literally gave me a strike. I reached out
to him band hammer and at that point, this is again before the Alex
Jumps thing really happened, before he got again, it became like YouTube has
been infected. Like we're saying they have an agenda now, and how much
of that affects a generation? Like what's the agenda the powers that be?
And then how did they inflict that on the people within the generation. And
it's a different way that that happens by every generation. I don't know that
makes sense, Father Deacon, what were you gonna say? You said there
was gonna there was a truth to the fact that philosophy transcended the the generational
trap or whatever. Remember I was thinking about this the other day. I
mean, it doesn't mean it's sufficient, but like it can certainly equip you.
I was making this was maybe like four years ago. I was making
criticism of music contemporary, particularly like rap music, and somebody had actually said
and it was I think they were like right on the customer and a boomer,
Oh you know, you're just you're that guy. You're like the boomer
criticizing you know, the early general You just don't get it. And it's
like, no, that's not true. Like I really do believe that you
can get to a point where you can have an objective analysis of aesthetics.
And I remember when I was at Thomas Quain's College. You know, I
thought I was repulsed by the fact that they said this, But looking back
on it, it was actually true. You know, there was certain music
that I actually liked and I found it. I thought I really had subjectivized
it. It was a subjective I like it. But you know, when
we were going through and we're studying music theory, we were studying you know,
the ancient Greeks thought on you know, symmetry, mathematics, and aesthetics
throughout the cosmos and stuff like that, and there really is an argument object
objectively speaking to be presented on that. And so they said, well,
the reason why the good doesn't sound the good music doesn't sound good to you,
and the bad music sounds bad is because your soul's disordered. And I
was like, these jokers, they're absolutely right, and so these things aren't
subjective. I'm not saying some stuff isn't, you know, but generally speaking,
I could, you know, And I was just giving you'd like this
BLA. I was just going through with my class last week about and kind
of going through some Aristotelian arguments on art, and I was referencing literature and
was really good. They knew a lot of literature, and so I was
like, well, what makes something good in terms of literature telling a story
or something like that? And I just broke it down into these kind of
objective categories and it goes all the way back. We traced it back to
even Perseus and Medusa and stuff like this, like what's going on in this
story? You have a common theme running through all of this, the true,
the good, the beautiful, the virtuous, and then the other categories,
the profaned, the ugly, the false, the vice right, And
you want into a story or music, if you want to get good art,
you want to represent right arts and memsas right and imitation of nature at
the higher levels, because these categories, it's not like, oh, I'm
just looking at something and imitating whatever the tree that I see. At these
levels, especially at literature and poetry and stuff like this, you're supposed to
be imitating the higher levels of the transcendent, transcend dentals of truth, beauty,
the good and these different things. So what happens if, just like
the tragedy, you're supposed to take the guy that made the mistake relatable enough
so you can see yourself in that person, and then seeing the reversal that
like all the bad stuff's happening because they made this bad mistake, right,
you're not in the tragedy. In the tragedy, you walk away and feel
pity and fear. Right, And I think, and I even put up
in the eighties cartoons, remember g I Joe, and I mean, heck,
we even had Davy and Goliath. Oh Davy, I don't think that's
a good idea. Everything was like a very clear moral and I'm like in
that sense, it's good art. Why because you're not a sympathizing and wanting
to be the villain. It's clear the virtuous and the good person you want
to actually imitate, hate yourself and become like that and the villain you It's
like, well, it isn't worth going that route. Now, we don't
kind of have that. And I'm really in music too, and so that
itself. And then even in terms of mathematics, the way that like that
you order you know, scales and stuff like derive scales and different modes and
stuff. Absolutely, I'm not bound by my generation and its taste. I
can get a philosophic and spiritual analysis of what's actually good and bad arts.
So I was actually offended to say that. So you think that I'm actually
determined by my generation and I can't rise above using spiritual virtues in my intellect
and philosophy to make an objective analysis. That's a pretty bold statement, and
I disagree with it. And so it applies to everything we're kind of saying
here. It's like, of course we might have certain difficulties because of our
generation, maybe are even particular upbringing, but the great thing about man being
created God's image and having an intellect is we can transcend these limits, right,
and we can get objective analysis and statements and judgments. I have a
question about the aesthetic part of that, because I get all the good and
whatever's prescriptive but or descriptive but or prescriptive. Sorry, but the aesthetic part
are you saying that aesthetics like if there is a good obviously, anything that's
upside down and twisted, even if you find value in it, the reason
you find value is because it necessitates a good standard, even if it's an
upside down version of it. So like, for instance, something that's beautiful
to one person, let's say from this paradigm, is because it's trying to
reach some higher standard godliness, or it's it's like a way to like venerate
God. But someone who doesn't have that paradigm, if they say, like
Picasso or something is beautiful, what you're saying is that even them saying it's
beautiful appeals to some standard, but they're not appealing to the preference. They're
not appealing to the ultimate. Yes, in their preference, this is but
it's upside down. But yeah, and this is a Plato's argument is that
the very fact that two people are having a disagreement about what's actually esthetically pleasing
or good proves that there's some type of objective form of the good. What's
what's in dispute is whether what I'm saying matches the form of beauty. But
the very fact that you're having a conversation can understand each other is exactly your
argument. It presupposes already to have that conversation that there is is objective standard
for the good, the beautiful, et cetera. So absolutely doesn't mean dada
Ism is good on its own like some rejection, like this impulsive rejection of
all norms in all you know, structure and stuff. But on a higher
level it is kind of and I have this experience, I have to if
that your state of your soul, go ahead, fathers, about how you
judge. Absolutely, I mean, part of this is what we would call
both virtue ethics and virtue epistemology, is the ability to get things even intellectually
correct and whatever category, and it could be even a judgment about aesthetics turns
out has something interested to do with acquiring virtues. So becoming a virtuous person
allows you to see things as they really are so absolutely sore. And I
discovered this, I was gonna say, what are your thoughts then on something
like the Joker phenomenon where so many people are finding this a beautiful film highlighting
the sort of nihilism is this is due to the sort of postmodern turn that
we can see the sound sort of downward effect philosophy has on culture in the
sense that people are you know, like, how does this work with the
disordered soul, with our understandings of objective aesthetics and beauty when it seems like
the play on contemporary films is to demonstrate the ambiguity between like the prototypical hero
of Bruce Wayne and the Joker and who actually do you align with? Who
who do you sympathize with? I mean, how how does that relate with
what you're talking about with more clear things like that's w Yeah, we need
a teacher, society always needs a teacher, needs the priests in the Socrates
and different stuff like that because of these bad things. And so last class
we actually did an analysis of The Joker, and so it's interesting much like
kind of like I used reference the portrait of Dorian Gray, Right, I
just continue this whole theme of the like making oneself ugly and allowing traggies.
I even saw this in Medusa for example, a tragic event happens to Medusa.
Right, she's defiled and then she by Poseidon I believe, and then
she's cursed right and made ugly, which to me was a theme of like
what can there? You go? Such a great book, isn't it?
So I wanted to link these kind of categories. That was the portrait of
Dorian Gray right there. Yeah, and so we brought up the Joker.
So the Joker again, possibly we could use this. I don't think the
film by itself could lead students and viewers in the wrong way because, like
you're saying, all these Z generation kids identify with the Joker, right why
because the world's unjust. He's got a bad he's got a bad deal.
Now, I said, then the teacher needs to come in and provide an
analysis of what's actually and clear things up. So what I said is what
is the We all have bad things that happened to our life, right,
we can relate to the Joker. But you have a choice. You can
either The scripture says what men intend for evil God in tense for good.
And you can be a Christian and you can take what's good bad and make
something better out of it, and you can redeem it. This is what
God's doing and this is part of the And or you can become like the
Joker. What does he do? He allows himself to become a monster.
And I said, look at his face. Look he literally lets it transform
like and you don't want to become that, right, And you have a
choice too. And so you have these moral categories that actually take an anthromorphization.
Whether it's in the Medusa, whether it's in the portrait of Dorian Gray
or something like that, it will make you ugly and you will die.
It leads to death spiritually, and these different things. So to answer your
question, Patrick, is that they need a guide. They need a teacher
that can properly assess. So that doesn't let the art just or maybe even
the artist is the writer's intending the wrong thing with that, But we as
Christians can take that and be like, no, see, now, let
me shed light on even perhaps a bad piece of art and give a moral
message and guide them in the right direction. So I think do you think
there's do you think there's a guide always present, or do you think we're
in a position where there's no guide, and so it's people appeal to,
like the art itself is the guide or the culture is the guide, but
there's no like you can't point to a single guide in this modern culture.
It's sort of like this machine unfolding. I wonder if the absence of the
guide itself in this at least in our country, seems like a liberating position
to people where they're like, this is fantastic. There's no seems like absolute
freedom right right, burning like the contemporary periods marked by the discontinuity with the
past, whereas maybe previous generations, like you guys are saying, well,
I knew what my parents listened to. There's a continuity between generations. But
it seems like right now, that's that's the whole promise, right, is
the breaking of the tradition that was to create something totally new, and so
there's like it's almost marked by this discontinuity with what was for something what will
be. Yeah, and then the media used to be a guide, like
you said, father, that the previous generations would encode the moral, the
moral of the story into it that was like that was like you couldn't separate
the moral right, yeah, right, end with the like whether it was
Heman. The cartoons were great back then, right, he Man, g
I, Joe, Davey and Goliath. Right, they always ended with like
the moral message, right that It's like in case you didn't get it,
here is stated, Yeah, we don't have that at all. Now,
how much of that comes to a dirty news at this point too? When
you're trying to talk about an objective? Do people see profane? Like?
What's it? Doja cat this new YouTube video? Yeah? Yeah, I
mean we're celebrating profane because we don't have disguide, which right, we do
have God's law written on our heart, but we celebrate the profane. We
celebrate the tragedy, we celebrate them, and we don't have that. We
have the church, but we need more of that to bring people back.
And maybe that's what I was highlighting is the discontinuity is marked by the absence
of God in culture at all, even a sort of general Protestant Christianity in
America. I mean, that's it's gone, and so there is no guide
inside the culture itself anymore. Well, what's the what's the Orthodox belief that
right the law is written on our heart. We're baptized, we have like
the whole spirit on the outside, and once we're baptized on the inside.
And that's why then the church is the only thing to give to be a
guide, because there is there is no general guide in the culture anymore.
It's been depleted. And Chase through it, as super Chatting says, doesn't
the appeal to beauty appeal to a thing with ontological status that is beauty and
has that substance? And I ask a question because I thought, I mean,
how does it orthodoxy parse beauty has a substance or an essence? How
does that relate to it being an energy and uncreated energy? How how does
that work philosophically? Well, I mean, Jay, I could see Jay
just put his my costs think his ears peaked up. I just thought I
was gonna get to talk to Governor Jesse even Tures way more important. Well,
you know, if you want to talk about aesthetics, I'm an ex
spurt because I have the worst mullet alive. Well, but they are there.
I mean, yeah, go ahead ahead. Jay. Chase makes a
great point with that comment, because I think most people don't have any concept
of metaphysics or ontology, so when they think of the beautiful, it's only
with it's only in respect to emotivism. And I believe it or not of
all people. And Rant actually has a good book on aesthetics, and she
just applies the principles of Aristotle to the arts, and she has a really
good critique of how the arts became degraded through identifying good art or the or
the beautiful with emotions and emotivism. So when that took over the arts,
the arts became primed for you know, propaganda for Congress for cultural freedom,
using it as a means of social engineering, all that kind of stuff.
But I think Chase is hitting at the essence of the question that you know
Plato would ask, which is, well, when you talk about the beautiful
or the good or the true, what are you actually referring to? It's
got to have some kind of real reference or else you're purely subjective status,
which makes makes it meaningless basically, So then Plato is obviously concerned with the
status of that transcendent object or that transcendental So I think in Orthodoxy, for
us, they relate to one another they're not identical. There's actually a problem
in Tomism that when you identify all these as synonymous, basically they're there eventually
is there's no distinction between being and the good, so all that exists is
also identical to the good. But that's why that's that's why you need distinct
energies. And there's a book that Umberto Eco wrote when he ceased being a
Toomist, and it was a book about Tomistic aesthetics and how if you identify
all these things as synonymous through absolute a simplicity, you really have no way
to distinguish the being and good and beauty. They're all basically the same referent
for a meaningless ads blob. So Orthodoxy has a unique position with the energies
being actually distinct realities. There's still one, but they're also really distinct.
It's a one and it's a both, and it's a one of the mini
situation. Those are in the past, that's in the Palamite sentods that you
have to believe that they're distinct realities. So the way this relates to aesthetics
is that there's different types of goods, there's different types of beauty, there's
created beauty and there's uncreated beauty. There's created good, there's uncreated good,
and the created good reflects the uncreated good. It's an analogy and alogeah,
this is all throughout the Church Fathers that there is a valid cataphatic analogia.
They're not one to one. That's why it's an analogy, right, So
we don't identify the created with the uncreated. There's not a one to one
correspondence. It's a reflective analogical predication. So there's a lot of different ways
you can go with this. But long story short, Chase is right that
modernity, since it lost the notion of the transcendent post Enlightenment, obviously the
arts and aesthetics are going to be affected by this as well. And even
though I just kind of Disktomism, medieval Latin's actually had a pretty good way
to parse out how you could tell good art from bad art, and so
Aquinas talks about, which I think he's correct at this point that true beauty
has to correspond to harmony, symmetry, order, form, proportion, all
those things have to be there for it to be good art. I mean,
he's probably talking mainly about like visual arts there, but I mean the
principles would apply to literature and written arts as well, So I do think
there's a gray area though, which I guess reflects Jimbob's question, which is,
well, so if if I appreciate something dark, does that mean my
soul's disordered? I mean not necessarily, because, for example, Flannery O'Connor
is great literature. I think universally accepted. It is great literature. Not
that it's true because the universe accepted, but it just is. And she,
you know, her stories all contain usually pretty dark and grotesque elements.
I mean, even scripture has the grotesque, it has dark elements. So
I don't think that even if one liked The Joker, I think it would
depend on the reasons why one liked The Joker. I mean, when I
saw the film, I could appreciate it on certain levels as a critique of
society and basically being black pilled. But I could also see it being amount
of an expression of nihilism, like there's no point, it's all nihilistic.
So I think some things are kind of unclear. It's not hard and fast
as to whether because I don't know what. I forget the guy's name,
but I don't know what what his intention was with the Joker. Was he
just trying to be black pilled and nihilistic, probably, but you could still
perhaps appreciate elements of it without appreciate the whole thing. I mean, I
mean David Lynch's stuff is it tends to be somewhat demonic and dark, but
I think there's interesting spiritual elements to it that one could still derive from it.
So I think there is basic ideas for what I would agree with with
medieval aesthetic theory and Tomism and whatnot, but there's also I think areas of
flexibility with you know, can I appreciate a really weird satirical story. Yeah,
I think so. But then also last point would just be that A
Rand's actually correct that modernity leaving behind metaphysical principles that you find in Aristotle or
Tomism, like order, proportion, harmony, symmetry, all that, when
that's lost, when metaphysics goes away, now the only thing left is how
does the art make you feel? Right? That has dominated the art world
ever since probably the sixties. Yeah, a question does orthodoxy reject what do
you call emotivism that like, uh that you know, ethical statements or whatever,
and then aren't really propositions. They're they're like emotional responses to something.
Does it we don't, We don't. There's not a negation of the emotion.
So so un ethical proposition, whether it's in art or literature or oritation,
might include an emotional aspect. And so but we don't want to be
led by that. Isn't that just like you know, charismatic church. Would
you say, that's kind of like this weird form of emotive the same problem.
That's a great analogy. Yeah, Like so in charismaticism, it's God's
presence, the theology, all that's subordinated to how I'm immediately feeling in the
worship service or I'm actually identifying the presence of God with the emotions I'm having
during the you know, gay praise Jesus boyfriend, Jesus, Jesus is my
boyfriend. Yeah, I think you know. Palma Sary. Palma says it
well when he says that God gave us emotions and desire for a reason,
but they have to be in the right place. They can't be like emotions
and desire have to be in the right hierarchy. You can't have that as
like the defining characteristic of everything. Because our hearts are deceptive, they could
be misled. Right, That's what I was just gonna say. Like every
heresy, whether theological, ideological, or philosophical, they're putting the right things
in the wrong categories, things in the wrong place right where they take out.
Obviously, emotions are good, the intellect's good. And you even see
this with the virtues, right, But if I put the virtue in the
wrong place, for example, let's say temperance or what's another gentleness or something
like that as a as a Christian virtue, when somebody's attacking and killing my
family, then it's a vice. It's putting the wrong place. If I
put, like you said, an emotion, usually what you see in a
lot of these things, and you can see this in Protestantism. It takes
something that's correct right within the whole, because we say we're the Catholic Church,
Catholic colos pertainium according to the whole. You take it out and then
you absoluteize it as if it were the whole or it's the first principle of
all things. So if that's emotion, then you get charismatic. If it's
the intellect, you get scholasticism, you have exact yeah, M yeah,
I think like so you guys might not know this, but when I was
growing up, I was like an art prodigy. I had a full ride
scholarship art school. Well, you know, you had a shape. We
didn't. We didn't do that back in the day. Back in the day,
I was just like a normal grunge punk rocker chick who went to art
school stuff. But I totally did, totally did. I had the flowered
dress with the Doc Martin when I played guitar, everything, the whole nine
yards. But I went. I went to enough art school that I realized
all the other art students were like deeply depressed and like hated everything, and
I didn't fit in because I was too happy. I was always like,
hey, everybody, what's going on? They were like life is pain,
you know. So it didn't work out for me. I didn't even go
to art school because I was like, what the hell am I going to
do with a fine arts degree? Like I don't even know what I'll do
with that. And I did do a lot of like painting and stuff after
school, you know, like once I graduated, I did a whole like
commission series for this really wealthy guy, and I've done a few other commissioned
projects and stuff like Jim Bob and I probably really get along well on that
level, being like visual artist type of people. But the thing about it
growing up was like the stuff I love. I loved like Rubens, and
I liked the realists, and I liked people who could take, you know,
something really realistic and reproduce it in a way that was like hyper realistic
or like transcendent to the realistic, and so growing up during the grunge era
where everything was like heroin chic and very dark and everything like, on the
one hand, I could kind of appreciate some of it, but on the
other hand, I was like I couldn't ever get really get myself into that
mindset of like life is meaningless, everything is pain, you know, the
suffering and all that stuff, because I'm like a happy person, so I
don't. It's like I was in this weird limo in between generations. And
I think that's why it's interesting for me having like the range of kids that
I have, the different the different personalities and the different perspectives that they have.
Right, like my oldest ones, remember vine before it was like to
talk and all that stuff they remember, like vine and stuff, and then
the younger ones are like, what's that, that's stupid. I watch TikTok,
you know, and I like this stuff. And they don't even have
the same sense of humor like the older one to the younger one. But
it's fun watching them interact because they'll find overlap. So I think every human
being, regardless of what generation you're and you're trying to find what you're meaning
is you're trying to find some kind of compass. You're trying to find some
sort of anchor, and there are transcendentals that help you do that. But
the way that the pop culture is right now, it's like the dominant stuff
is very satanic and it's all about shitting all over whatever is transcendental. Right
Like that seems to be the dominant thing right now. And the good thing
is the white pill is all four of my daughters who are around now are
like, they all see that for what it is. They all get it
instantly. They all see that and they're like, ah, no, I
know what you're doing their you know, Dojakat dressed like a black demon in
her latest video or you know those sort of things, like my youngest is
the biggest Jamie Hanschoff fan on the planet. Buck way. She loves her
stuff because and it's not anything that I trained her or taught her to do.
She just sees it for herself. And I don't know if it's well,
it's Andrews threatening her at night. He's this, that's so funny because
he's like the sweetest, gentlest dad ever. You guys would all laugh so
hard because he's just such a sweete pie with him. But she no,
she just I don't know if it's being homeschooled or what it is, but
it's like she sees the stuff and she picks on it, picks up on
it. I don't have to say anything. Andrew doesn't have to say anything.
She knows exactly what's going on right away. So when she when we
went to Nashville and she met Jamie, they just talked it up because she
would Betty, just my youngest one, was just like, oh yeah,
I totally get it. I know this pop star and this pop star.
You gotta look into it because look at her cover art, look at the
symbology, and I'm sitting there I had no idea she knew this stuff.
I'm sitting there like just as flabbergasted as everybody else was. But I think
that they're They're not like Bla will tell you too, They're not as dumb
as you think. They catch on to a lot, They get a lot
more than you would think. This youngest generation, I think is better.
Is it better that it's obvious, like we have a culture that the Satanism
and all this under right out there is so clear? Or is it?
Or is it it makes a worse you know culture, But if it was
very ambiguous and under the radar and and and subtle, like I don't know
if one is worse or they're just different, but the subtle one would have
its own problems, you know, navigating it. Like I was like,
thank you obvious, Like you have a big, you know, demon head
on and you're upside down and you're doing all you know, puns and we're
not wondering now that The sad thing is that, like you were saying,
Michael, is that if you're if the news is clouded, you don't see
it, it doesn't seem obvious. Yeah, that's your new subtle, but
not for someone you know this whole Jimbob's not It isn't subtle, And it
makes sense why Betty a zoomer that was homeschooled, raised an environment where she
wasn't bombarded with all the stuff too, you know, cloud her noetic faculties
that she then can pick up on something and follows Jamie and can put all
these patterns together and it is obvious for her. So I think, I
think you're nailing it there. But it wasn't time when it wasn't obvious.
Is there a is there a time in history we can point to where oh,
yeah, absolutely worse. Yeah. I was thinking there's a parallel too.
I was just talking to this conversation about what I appreciated about Latin American
like third world countries is that the corruption is just obvious. It's like,
oh, we're getting pulled over, I'll get your wallet out. Why because
we got to pay the cops. And at first I was upset, and
then I'm like, I like where I can see it. I appreciate it
there. The United States, it's really good at like covering everything's normal here.
What do they call that? American exceptionalism? Moral exceptional This would never
happen, and I appreciated that. I think I almost liked it where I
could see it if is a DPH and you'd said, if you're capable of
seeing it, so you know, and I think there was there. There
was definitely a time, you know, in the I don't know, eighties
and nineties. I mean that's where I grew up, and it wasn't that
obvious to me. I didn't know, like now it's just like they're throwing
it in your face. It's right there. But nineties, we're how do
we tell if you were cl clouded or partially clouded that you didn't see or
was it actually not as I mean, how how do I know if I
went clear? Yeah? At that you know you were there was clarity at
that point, like even if it was not as clear, you weren't as
clear as you are now. It was it ver like was like ac DC
and what's the name eating a Bat's head like show? Right, But to
me, it didn't occur like, oh, there's this demonic force out there,
even though I believe good and evil exists, that's just you know,
like that that was my attitude. But I don't know if that's just cloudiness.
Or did things just get really intense and focused, you know, in
its practice of like just demonic crap. I gotta jump in real quick because
I gotta run. But David don't want to Thank you for having me on,
and thank you for the interviews that we've done, and congratulations on twenty
k BLA. You still want to do this book? Yes, yes,
yes, I gotta right over here. Yeah, let's do it right there.
Oh my god, that would be so exciting. Yes, so I
dtor Moreau. You guys all right later, Jay, Thanks brother, appreciate
it. That will be so fun. I'm excited for that. I think
in terms of what you guys are talking about, you brought up. You
brought up a lot, you know. I think that, in my opinion,
you know, I think that art of in any medium, is really
about two things. It's one the the questions that the artist is always trying
to address, you know, the thing that they're trying to convey even when
they are not, is there too, really, which is our relationship with
God and our relationship with each other. Right, It's always it's always why
are we here? And what do we do while we're here? And even
the works of art that are specifically dark, like you said, Father Deacon.
They they address that issue. I mean, like paradig