This is a studio both and production. Are you truly responsible for killing twenty
one people? And never ever would dream that you really killed twenty one people?
There's reasons none of the things that you've told me, like to do
with the body at the beach and dropped at the beach and killed inside the
house at your mom and dad's house, and your cousin being involved in it,
none of that adds up. Now your cousin's dead, but I haven't
got nobody at the beach. There's latitudes and longitudes where they are. You
have the latitudes and longitudes for all your locations, and why would you keep
it? Why not? Kis are really a bag of trophies two banks.
The tricky thing with Kelly cochrane is trying to sort out truth from lies,
and while at first glance, her list of hers and Jason's thirty two alleged
victims are significantly more forthcoming than Keys ever was, at least keys vague confessions
actually led to missing people lend possible victims. Kelly's specificity often leads nowhere at
all. However, when parsed certain details from her lists and her statements regarding
the people on those lists, can at best actually be verified and at a
minimum are reflective of actual murders and missing persons cases. For example, on
her list of Jason's alleged eleven murders, the chronological first is a middle aged
man named Matt, who Jason supposedly killed at the King's Motel in Fulton,
Tennessee, on June nineteenth of two thousand and three. And as I discussed
in the previous episode, there are few things off about Kelly's account of this
murder. For one, her description of the victim matches Jason Ruder, the
man she likely shot in Hastings, Minnesota. Secondly, there is no King's
Motel, or any motel for that matter, in Fulton, Tennessee, but
there is a King's Way Motel in Fulton, Kentucky, and Fulton, Kentucky
is right outside of wing Go, Kentucky, where Jason's cousin lived and where
Kelly was eventually arrested. As far as I can tell, there's only been
one attempted murder at the Kingsway Motel. Oddly, it occurred on the same
day that Chris Regan was murdered, and local law enforcement have a suspect for
it. So This clearly isn't Jason Cochrane, who was preoccupied and eight hundred
miles away that day. The Kingsway Motel also made the news when a rapist
and child molester from Pennsylvania was found and arrested hiding out there in twenty nineteen.
So clearly it's a great place to stay if you happen to be in
the area, and it would definitely make sense that the Cochranes would know about
it. Looking at Fulton, Kentucky itself, there aren't any unsolved disappearances there,
nor do there appear to be any unsolved homicides there. According to the
Kentucky State Police's Cold case website. There are also no reported unsolved disappearances anywhere
in the country from June nineteenth, two thousand and three. There are only
two on the eighteenth, and they are a couple who was lost at sea
near Palm Beach, Florida in the six surrounding counties in Tennessee. In Kentucky,
there are eighteen unsolved disappearances in total, and not a single one occurred
in two thousand and three, and only one occurred in a June that fell
within Jason's adult life. On June second, of twenty thirteen, but that
man is believed to be homeless and not a victim of foul play. But
here's where Kelly's confession gets weird. A woman's body was discovered on the morning
of June twentieth of two thousand and three in the Plaza Motel just fifty miles
southwest of Fulton in Dyersburg, Tennessee, Michelle Quinsola. Kelly's cause of death
has never been made public, but authorities did report that it was a homicide
and that her legs and arms were bound. When her body was discovered,
Local law enforcement targeted Michelle's husband, Sean Pierce, almost immediately as a suspect.
It remains unclear why Pierce was their first and only suspect in the case.
Interestingly, though, after he was named a suspect in his wife's murder,
Pierce fled the area and was eventually arrested in Fulton, Kentucky. At
trial in two thousand and four, Pierce pled guilty to the second degree murder
of his wife. So what exactly are the odds of Kelly randomly writing down
the exact date and approximate place of a homicide that actually occurred, and what
does this mean for the case of Michelle Kelly. Did Kelly Cochrane read about
the murder then commit it to memory to use it at some unforced in arrest
thirteen years later. Did Kelly and or Jason actually have something to do with
the murder of Michelle Kelly? This is the issue with Kelly and her lists.
Little kernels of truth pop up throughout both weird coincidences that seem just a
little too coincidental. And since it seems the victims on those two lists seem
to be at minimum influenced by one another or at most conflated into a smaller
actual list of victims, let's take a look at those lists contents, starting
with Jason's. Kelly wrote Jason's list in reverse chronological order, starting with Chris
Regan, who she attributed solely to Jason. This is her handwritten list,
verbatim. One Chris Reagan, Iron River, Caspian, Michigan, shot in
the head, October fourteenth, twenty fourteen. Two Robert or Bob Hobart,
Indiana, cut up with a hatchet September twentieth, two thousand and twelve.
Remains in Deep River Park. Number three initials l L. These were initials
engraved on a locket I found Hobart, Indiana, stabbed with a knife and
a hatchet. June fifth, two thousand eleven. Remains in Deep River Park.
Number four two men in their thirties, Southern Lafayette area, by Sugar
Creek, where we camped a few times July of two thousand nine. Number
five Noah. Not sure if this name is correct. May twelfth, two
thousand and eight, remains Robinson Lake Park and Hobert. Jason knew him.
I think, but not sure of the affiliation. Number six Anne or Anna
April twenty seventh, two thousand and eight, remains in Indiana Dunes Park before
Mount Baldy, off Route twenty. Number seven Adam September first, two thousand
and seven remains in Indiana Dunes Park, right off Route twelve before Beverly Shores.
There are steps going up to the beach from the parking lot, and
this happened at the bottom of those steps. Disposed nearby. Number eight two
men, maybe one in twenties, the other in thirties, close to Potato
Creek. We camped here and they were giving me a hard time. Jason
said. He waited until I was sleeping at an Amish camp ground approximately two
hours east of Hobert. All of their year was still there the following day,
but I never saw them. Number nine name question mark, not sure
if this was a woman or man. Happened at Deep River Park in Hobert.
When he took me here, he actually showed me a bone, a
rib, a bone possibly. And Number ten Matt middle aged man, over
six feet tall, dark hair. He drove an older model red crown,
Victoria, Tennessee, Kentucky border, Fulton, Tennessee. Happened at King's Motel
June nineteenth, two thousand and three. I am one hundred percent certain about
these details. Now, there's a few things that I immediately stand out about
this list. For starters, there are twelve victims on it, and not
eleven. Secondly, she can't remember most of their names, but she can
remember the exact dates of almost all of Jason's murders. Murders she claims she
wasn't present for and had nothing to do with, which is weird. But
Kelly is really good with dates and numbers. Keys usually gave time frames that
consisted of a specific month, within one or two years, or a specific
season within a specific year. Kelly, though, almost always says an exact
date and is almost always exactly right when, of course, she's talking about
something that actually happened that can actually be verified. For example, when discussing
Jason's and Chris's murders, every single time she mentions either murder, she gets
the dates exactly right. The most notable thing about this list, though,
is the locations of all the bodies, locations that completely exclude the stomachs of
their pigs. Kelly has repeatedly gone on and on and on about how Jason
fed his victims to their pigs, but when taxed with accounting for his victims
and they're whereabouts the pigs don't ever come up. Not a theory on that,
But first, let's take a look at Kelly's list of her twenty one
alleged victims. Kelly's list and her ensuing explanations of it are much more and
forgive this turn of phrase. Fleshed out what began as a handwritten lists similar
to Jason's, she slowly filled in over time during her conversations with Ogden.
Now, you may recall that Kelly talked about Gary Caldwell being her first murder.
Well, it seems that she forgot about a murder that took place before
Gary, because Kelly's chronological list and her discussions regarding it placed Gary as her
second victim. Kelly alleges that her first murder took place when she was sixteen.
It's a wild story that, like her story about Matt and the King's
Motel, has some truth to it, but also a ton of inconsistencies.
Kelly claims she met Dylan Austin, a twenty three year old man from Rensselaer,
Indiana, through her friend Tim Kay. The two were casually dating when
she alleges she murdered him at her parents house in Hobert during an argument about
sex. In later interviews, she would say that the argument was about meth.
She'd also claim to have killed Dylan in a friend's car near Lake Station,
Indiana. Those inconsistencies, as weird as they may be, aren't what
makes this story so strange, though. Kelly claims that she actually convinced her
eleven year old cousin to stab Dylan. That he stabbed Dylan under durest from
Kelly, and then she got rid of the body and cleaned up the mess.
Kelly went on to tell investigators that two years later, that cousin died
by suicide, that his actions and their secret led him into a deep depression
that ended with him hanging himself in the family garage. And the thing is
that actually did happen. Kelly's younger cousin, whom she named, did die
by suicide in two thousand and one, approximately two years after this alleged event
took place, and Ogden was even able to track down Tim Kay and interviewed
him regarding Kelly and Dylan. Tim Kay told Ogden that he spent the oughts
doing a lot of drugs, and his memory of people and events that decade
weren't great, but he couldn't recall ever knowing or being friends with someone named
Dylan Austen. He also couldn't recall ever knowing or being friends with someone named
Kelly Cochrane. Ogden was able to find six different Dylan Austens in the state
of Indiana, all of whom are still alive. Kelly claims she dumped Dylan
Austen's remains along a small creek at Silver Beach on Lake Michigan, a beach
in a highly trafficked area which has no small creek anywhere near it. So
again we have a tenuous claim at best, which includes some strange coincidences and
actual truths. Tim Kay doesn't have a common last name at all, so
it seems Kelly was at least aware of him and his existence. Kelly's cousin
did tragically die by suicide in two thousand and one, and we know Kelly
has a history of manipulating others to do her dirty work. So did she
convince this poor kid to do something awful or is she just exploiting his death
for her own gain, whatever that gain may be. Now, there are
two unsolved disappearances that occurred in Indiana when Kelly was sixteen, the first of
which occurred in Indianapolis and is believed to have been a suicide. The second,
however, happened within walking distance of Kelly's house. John lenn Taylor was
last seen on May twenty first of nineteen ninety nine on the thirty nine hundred
block of Adams Street in Gary, Indiana, almost exactly five miles from Kelly's
parents' house on Mississippi Street, and just days before Kelly's seventeenth birthday. John
was forty eight when he disappeared following an argument with an unnamed person at his
girlfriend's house. Almost a year prior to his disappearance, John was shot from
behind and left for dead in the same area he disappeared from. The shooter
was never identified, and it's unclear whether the shooting and his disappearance are related.
Interestingly, in March of twenty twelve, just three miles north from where
Taylor went missing, a human skull was found along a small creek bed.
Gary Police have never publicly identified who the school belongs to, but have said
it was likely human remains that they'd been looking for for a very long time.
The skull was recovered just six miles west along the same highway from Lake
Station, Indiana. And here is the trouble with Kelly's lists. The details
often line up with actual homicides, it's just the names that don't. Next
up on Kelly's list is the infamous Gary Caldwell, who Kelly claims she killed
when she was thirteen or fourteen, or some time around her seventeenth birthday,
depending on when you ask her. According to Kelly, Gary was from Calumet
City, Illinois, served in the military, was twenty four and lived with
his mother and sister. She said his remains were never recovered, and she
vaguely remembered there being several searches for him, but ultimately she deemed Gary as
someone who would not be missed. And again, there is no such missing
person. No one went missing from Calumet City in the years she listed,
and there are not any unsolved disappearances for anyone named Gary Caldwell. Ever,
the name Gary Caldwell is interesting though. Gary is the closest major city to
Meryllville, less than five miles away. Caldwell is a division of nearby Peoria,
Illinois, and there is one unsolved disappearance in Caldwell, which occurred a
week after Kelly's seventeenth birthday. Michael Stephen Bocot disappeared from the East Peoria neighborhood
following a hospital visit. The forty seven year old was hospitalized after a fight
at a party. He left the hospital on foot, still in his hospital
gown, and was never seen again. Michael had no military record to speak
of, but he does have a criminal record. Bocot has multiple arrests,
including battery and disorderly conduct, and Michael was living with his mother and sister
at the time of his disappearance, and even weirder, he was originally from
Mattoon, Illinois. And I don't even know what to make of this.
It seems like a stretch to connect Kelly to his disappearance simply based on the
name Gary Caldwell, but the coincidences between his disappearance and Kelly's list are strange
and strong anyhow, Moving on. Number three on Kelly's list is Chris Adams,
who she claimed to have killed in two thousand and three and merely stated
that he was neither from nor killed in Indiana. Then there's Michael Marcus,
whom and later reviews she calls Michael Vargas from East Chicago. Kelly says she
stabbed Michael to death and his remains have never been recovered. The details in
both of these claims are too vague and common to yield anything. However,
East Chicago will come up a lot in Kelly's claims. Next up is the
two thousand and six stabbing of Daniel Vedamos from East Chicago. Kelly claims she
dumped his body in Robinson Lake in Hobert. In addition to East Chicago,
Robinson Lake will also come up a lot in Kelly's lists. Now, there
are no unsolved disappearances of anyone named Daniel Vedomos or even anyone with the last
name Vedamos. I'm sure you're shocked. There are four unsolved disappearances from Chicago
in two thousand and six, though three of whom are men. One of
those three men is strongly believed to be in Mexico, so that leaves us
with Ted Pulka and Jesse Warren Ross. If you're a rapid true crime consumer,
you're probably familiar with Jesse Ross's case. Jesse disappeared in the early morning
hours on November twenty first while at a model un conference with the University of
Missouri Kansas City. He was nineteen at the time, and he doesn't really
match Kelly's claims nor her known victimology. Ted Pauca, on the other hand,
does Ted was forty two when he disappeared. He was unemployed and a
heavy drinker and drug user who was known to live somewhat on the periphery in
East Chicago. Kelly claims she met Daniel Vedamos in East Chicago through her friend
who will call Tanya, who Kelly referred to as a druggy slut. She
claimed they were either buying or using drugs when she met Daniel. I've reached
out to Tanya, but as of this recording, haven't heard back from her.
Like East Chicago and Robinson Lake, Tanya comes up several times in Kelly's
lists. Number six is forty something Charles Price, who Kelly claims she killed
outside of a bar in East Chicago. She says she knew him very well,
which is funny considering it took her over an hour to remember his last
name. Kelly claims that she stabbed him in the neck, then took his
body to Cedar Lake, Indiana, where she poured acid on him. She
says that she accidentally burned herself with the acid, pointing out a clear burn
scar on her stomach. Again, no missing Charles Prices anywhere in the United
States. Number seven is a damn mess and it's one you're familiar with.
When first written, it was Jason Boden or Jason Salmon Tico from Hasting,
Minnesota. However, after meeting with Hasting police, as we discussed in episode
twelve, Kelly made some changes to her story. During her interview she said
Jason was from Saint Cloud and not Hasting, and after her interview, she
told Ogden that her victim wasn't Jason Boden or Samon Tico, but Jason Olsen,
who was a friend of Jason Boden slash Jason Salmon Tico. It should
be noted that this name change occurred after Kelly's meeting with the Hasting investigator,
whose name is Jason Olsen. Number eight on Kelly's list is simply Dan from
Hobert, who Kelly claims was a thirty something man who she met through Tania
and eventually forced to drink acid. She later dissolved his remaining remains in acid
and dumped that plastic tub at the Hobert dump. Next up is Tony Miller,
a man from Merrylville she claims she had an ongoing sexual relationship with in
two thousand nine and two thousand ten. Kelly says she stabbed Tony in the
neck while he was in his Chrysler Sea Bring. Then she drove the car
back to her house on Mississippi Street, where Jason somehow inexplicably destroyed it on
their property without anyone knowing. Tony's body was allegedly dumped in a marsh in
Highland, Indiana. When further pressed about the car, Kelly claimed that she
and Jason destroyed every car that was ever involved in their homicides. They usually
set them on fire, but they had also cut several up. Number ten
was Adam Russell. You may notice that most of these men have very common
names. Kelly claims that she met Adam at a friend's house in two thousand
and nine, and that he was in town on vacation. She says he
was twenty eight and that she stabbed him to death at this friend's house.
And then, and you'll love this, she stole a boat. Somehow got
his bloody body from her friend's house onto the stolen boat without anyone being the
wiser, then sailed the stolen boat into a nearby lake and sank his body.
According to Kelly, she never saw any reporting on Adam being missing,
but she did cease several stories about the missing boat. Now, thankfully,
there's a pretty comprehensive list of watercraft that's been reported stolen, and according to
that list, in two thousand and nine, the closest stolen boat to Merrillville
was over one hundred miles away in Fox Lake, Illinois. Number eleven is
Brandon Baker, who is definitely not a real person. According to Kelly,
they grew up together. She killed him in two thousand and nine in the
woods behind his parents' house in Demot, Indiana, when they were both twenty
five or twenty six. She didn't bury him, but she did cover up
his body with nearby dirt and debris. And no, there's no missing Brandon
Baker from Demot or Hobert or Merrillville or anywhere. And yes, it's wildly
unrealistic that a man could be dead in his own parents' backyard for over a
decade without ever being recovered. And no, no one in Kelly's family knows
anyone with this name or a similar name. But Kelly also told investigators that
she still knew Brandon's phone number by heart, which obviously I won't share on
the podcast. Kelly stated during this confession that numbers are very important to her,
which is why she's so good at remembering them, specifically dates and phone
numbers. Anyway, that phone number can be traced back to someone rather interesting,
a man with no visible connections to Kelly or her family, who worked
in Calumet City in the mining and manufacturing industry, and he lived all over
the Hobert area. A man who is very much alive. And we'll circle
back to that man in just a few minutes. Next is Sean Stoker.
Yes, Kelly has a thing for alliteration. Sean was a twenty six year
old man from Hebrew, Indiana, who Kelly alleges to have stabbed multiple times
at a campground in nearby White County in twenty twelve. Kelly says his remains
can be found intact in an abandoned mining pit in north Crawfordsville, Indiana.
She also says the number fourteen is very important in this case. Yes,
about halfway through her confessions, Kelly suddenly became a numerologist. Nobodies have ever
been recovered from any abandoned mines in Crawfordsville, So, presuming this is a
real person, he's still missing. There are only four men who went missing
in Indiana in twenty twelve whose cases are still open, and none of them
are from Hebron or Crawfordsville, or even White County. None of them went
missing while camping. And yes, I did look, and the number fourteen
doesn't come up in any of those cases. Speaking of numbers, number thirteen
on Kelly's list is James Walker from the East Side of Chicago. Kelly says
she took a mini filet knife from him as a trophy. Number fourteen is
simply Mike. Mike was either from Hebron or Noblesville, two towns with no
reported missing persons cases. Kelly injected poor Mike with speed before stabbing him in
the neck. While recounting this murder, she anecdotally told Ogden that it takes
exactly six minutes for a man to bleed out from a next stabbing. So
there's that. Mike was murdered in twenty thirteen and sunk in a lake somewhere
in Indiana. Around the same time as Mike, Kelly also killed Doug.
She stabbed Doug two, then she burned his finger tips with acid and knocked
out all of his teeth with a chisel and hammer. His remains are somewhere
in Lake Michigan near Whiting, Indiana. Doug was twenty nine years old,
and sometime between Doug and Kelly's moved Iron River. In January of twenty fourteen,
she killed Aaron Justice, a person who doesn't seem to exist. Aaron
was from you guessed it, East Chicago. She stabbed him to death in
Chestertown, Indiana, then buried him in a shallow grave near a pond.
Maybe coincidentally. Richard Justice disappeared from Fort Wayne, Indiana on December first of
two thousand and six. Fort Wayne is a two and a half hour drive
from Merrillville. There are very few details available regarding Richard. All we know
is he was fifty at the time of his disappearance. The alleged murders of
Mike doug and mister Justice all would have occurred around the time Andrew Fugate was
murdered in Merrillville. Number seventeen is m Turner from Michigan City. Kelly killed
him in the summer of twenty fifteen, after she returned to Indiana from the
Upper Peninsula. Apparently twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen were very busy years for Kelly.
She claims mister Turner's remains can be found in a farmer's pond in either
Wamata or Mawata, neither of which are places that seem to exist. Now.
There are three unsolved disappearance from Michigan City, Indiana, and only one
of them is a man, Francisco Huizar. Francisco was last seen leaving his
home at around two fifty pm on March seventeenth of two thousand. He was
on his way to work the night shift at his job at the press department
at PSW Incorporated, less than a mile and a half from his home.
He was never seen again. However, Francisco's car was found on April third
in a nature preserve in Gary, Indiana. It had been burned beyond recognition
and could only be identified by its then. And here's the weird thing.
Remember that phone number that Kelly recited to police. The phone number she claimed
belonged to Brandon Baker, while it belonged to a man who worked in the
building adjacent to where Francisco's car was found. Shortly after murdering m Turner in
twenty fifteen, Kelly claims to have stabbed twenty two year old Nathan Holder.
Nathan Holder is allegedly from Belleville, Illinois. Kelly says she took his wallet
and hat as trophies, and claims the coordinates to his house can be found
on her trucks. GPS spoiler alert, they weren't. The only unsolved disappearance
out of Belleville is that of Donna Mezzo, who disappeared when Kelly was nine.
There's a missing Monterio holder from Indianapolis, but he went missing when Kelly
was eleven. Now, both cochrings have connections to Saint Louis, which is
just across the river from Bellevue, and we'll be getting into those in a
future episode. And finally, on Kelly's list are Jason and the Mattoon truck
driver. If you're keeping track and realize there are only twenty victims, yeah,
I caught it too. So she claimed Jason killed eleven people but listed
twelve, and she claimed that she killed twenty one people but listed twenty.
So I guess in the end it still adds up to thirty two. You'll
also note that Kelly has repeatedly told family and investigators that she has a victim
in Tennessee, and yet the only mention of Tennessee is Jason's alleged murder at
the Kingsway Motel on the Kentucky Tennessee border. Kelly closed her lengthy confession with
this very charming quote. Everything I've told you is true, just not all
the details. In all of my research and investigation into Israel Keys, I
never once thought this thing I'm about to write or say is totally unreasonable and
borders on crazy. With my investigation into Kelly, I feel that constantly,
and I can't help but wonder if maybe that's the point, to give us
just enough misleading information that every road we go down makes us feel like lunatics,
and rather than questioning her, we start to question ourselves. I mean,
if Kelly has proven to be anything, it's terrifyingly good at gaslighting people.
So what's the utility to all of these lies? And what exactly is
she lying about? Is it the details and not the names like she claims,
or is it the names and not the details, because most of the
details on her lists point sometimes eerily to actual murders and actual missing people.
And we've only just begun exploring the eerie connections between what the Cochranes have written
and crimes that have actually occurred.