WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:19.239 This is a studio both and production. Are you truly responsible for killing twenty 2 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:29.199 one people? And never ever would dream that you really killed twenty one people? 3 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:39.960 There's reasons none of the things that you've told me, like to do 4 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:44.280 with the body at the beach and dropped at the beach and killed inside the 5 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:47.439 house at your mom and dad's house, and your cousin being involved in it, 6 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:57.920 none of that adds up. Now your cousin's dead, but I haven't 7 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:07.879 got nobody at the beach. There's latitudes and longitudes where they are. You 8 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:14.239 have the latitudes and longitudes for all your locations, and why would you keep 9 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:21.519 it? Why not? Kis are really a bag of trophies two banks. 10 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:29.519 The tricky thing with Kelly cochrane is trying to sort out truth from lies, 11 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.519 and while at first glance, her list of hers and Jason's thirty two alleged 12 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:42.040 victims are significantly more forthcoming than Keys ever was, at least keys vague confessions 13 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:49.040 actually led to missing people lend possible victims. Kelly's specificity often leads nowhere at 14 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:57.400 all. However, when parsed certain details from her lists and her statements regarding 15 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:04.799 the people on those lists, can at best actually be verified and at a 16 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:13.919 minimum are reflective of actual murders and missing persons cases. For example, on 17 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:19.879 her list of Jason's alleged eleven murders, the chronological first is a middle aged 18 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:23.800 man named Matt, who Jason supposedly killed at the King's Motel in Fulton, 19 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:29.680 Tennessee, on June nineteenth of two thousand and three. And as I discussed 20 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:34.199 in the previous episode, there are few things off about Kelly's account of this 21 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:39.360 murder. For one, her description of the victim matches Jason Ruder, the 22 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:46.400 man she likely shot in Hastings, Minnesota. Secondly, there is no King's 23 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:52.080 Motel, or any motel for that matter, in Fulton, Tennessee, but 24 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:58.199 there is a King's Way Motel in Fulton, Kentucky, and Fulton, Kentucky 25 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:02.319 is right outside of wing Go, Kentucky, where Jason's cousin lived and where 26 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:07.199 Kelly was eventually arrested. As far as I can tell, there's only been 27 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:14.280 one attempted murder at the Kingsway Motel. Oddly, it occurred on the same 28 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:19.680 day that Chris Regan was murdered, and local law enforcement have a suspect for 29 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:25.319 it. So This clearly isn't Jason Cochrane, who was preoccupied and eight hundred 30 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:30.800 miles away that day. The Kingsway Motel also made the news when a rapist 31 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:37.560 and child molester from Pennsylvania was found and arrested hiding out there in twenty nineteen. 32 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.520 So clearly it's a great place to stay if you happen to be in 33 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:46.120 the area, and it would definitely make sense that the Cochranes would know about 34 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:52.960 it. Looking at Fulton, Kentucky itself, there aren't any unsolved disappearances there, 35 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.800 nor do there appear to be any unsolved homicides there. According to the 36 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:03.680 Kentucky State Police's Cold case website. There are also no reported unsolved disappearances anywhere 37 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:09.159 in the country from June nineteenth, two thousand and three. There are only 38 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:13.680 two on the eighteenth, and they are a couple who was lost at sea 39 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:18.360 near Palm Beach, Florida in the six surrounding counties in Tennessee. In Kentucky, 40 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:25.240 there are eighteen unsolved disappearances in total, and not a single one occurred 41 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:29.680 in two thousand and three, and only one occurred in a June that fell 42 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:34.079 within Jason's adult life. On June second, of twenty thirteen, but that 43 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:40.000 man is believed to be homeless and not a victim of foul play. But 44 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:46.519 here's where Kelly's confession gets weird. A woman's body was discovered on the morning 45 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:51.720 of June twentieth of two thousand and three in the Plaza Motel just fifty miles 46 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:59.439 southwest of Fulton in Dyersburg, Tennessee, Michelle Quinsola. Kelly's cause of death 47 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:02.920 has never been made public, but authorities did report that it was a homicide 48 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:06.639 and that her legs and arms were bound. When her body was discovered, 49 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:14.439 Local law enforcement targeted Michelle's husband, Sean Pierce, almost immediately as a suspect. 50 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:19.600 It remains unclear why Pierce was their first and only suspect in the case. 51 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:25.720 Interestingly, though, after he was named a suspect in his wife's murder, 52 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:31.879 Pierce fled the area and was eventually arrested in Fulton, Kentucky. At 53 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.560 trial in two thousand and four, Pierce pled guilty to the second degree murder 54 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:45.319 of his wife. So what exactly are the odds of Kelly randomly writing down 55 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:50.680 the exact date and approximate place of a homicide that actually occurred, and what 56 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:56.360 does this mean for the case of Michelle Kelly. Did Kelly Cochrane read about 57 00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:00.560 the murder then commit it to memory to use it at some unforced in arrest 58 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:04.839 thirteen years later. Did Kelly and or Jason actually have something to do with 59 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:10.800 the murder of Michelle Kelly? This is the issue with Kelly and her lists. 60 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:16.839 Little kernels of truth pop up throughout both weird coincidences that seem just a 61 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:23.560 little too coincidental. And since it seems the victims on those two lists seem 62 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:30.079 to be at minimum influenced by one another or at most conflated into a smaller 63 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:35.399 actual list of victims, let's take a look at those lists contents, starting 64 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:47.319 with Jason's. Kelly wrote Jason's list in reverse chronological order, starting with Chris 65 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:54.439 Regan, who she attributed solely to Jason. This is her handwritten list, 66 00:06:54.920 --> 00:07:02.040 verbatim. One Chris Reagan, Iron River, Caspian, Michigan, shot in 67 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:11.959 the head, October fourteenth, twenty fourteen. Two Robert or Bob Hobart, 68 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:16.680 Indiana, cut up with a hatchet September twentieth, two thousand and twelve. 69 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:26.959 Remains in Deep River Park. Number three initials l L. These were initials 70 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:31.480 engraved on a locket I found Hobart, Indiana, stabbed with a knife and 71 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:38.639 a hatchet. June fifth, two thousand eleven. Remains in Deep River Park. 72 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:45.639 Number four two men in their thirties, Southern Lafayette area, by Sugar 73 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:50.040 Creek, where we camped a few times July of two thousand nine. Number 74 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:57.879 five Noah. Not sure if this name is correct. May twelfth, two 75 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:03.759 thousand and eight, remains Robinson Lake Park and Hobert. Jason knew him. 76 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:11.040 I think, but not sure of the affiliation. Number six Anne or Anna 77 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:16.160 April twenty seventh, two thousand and eight, remains in Indiana Dunes Park before 78 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:24.519 Mount Baldy, off Route twenty. Number seven Adam September first, two thousand 79 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:31.000 and seven remains in Indiana Dunes Park, right off Route twelve before Beverly Shores. 80 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:33.799 There are steps going up to the beach from the parking lot, and 81 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:41.480 this happened at the bottom of those steps. Disposed nearby. Number eight two 82 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:46.639 men, maybe one in twenties, the other in thirties, close to Potato 83 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.960 Creek. We camped here and they were giving me a hard time. Jason 84 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.159 said. He waited until I was sleeping at an Amish camp ground approximately two 85 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:01.840 hours east of Hobert. All of their year was still there the following day, 86 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:09.440 but I never saw them. Number nine name question mark, not sure 87 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.679 if this was a woman or man. Happened at Deep River Park in Hobert. 88 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.919 When he took me here, he actually showed me a bone, a 89 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:26.720 rib, a bone possibly. And Number ten Matt middle aged man, over 90 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.759 six feet tall, dark hair. He drove an older model red crown, 91 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:37.799 Victoria, Tennessee, Kentucky border, Fulton, Tennessee. Happened at King's Motel 92 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:43.080 June nineteenth, two thousand and three. I am one hundred percent certain about 93 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:50.480 these details. Now, there's a few things that I immediately stand out about 94 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:56.600 this list. For starters, there are twelve victims on it, and not 95 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:01.879 eleven. Secondly, she can't remember most of their names, but she can 96 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:09.480 remember the exact dates of almost all of Jason's murders. Murders she claims she 97 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:15.440 wasn't present for and had nothing to do with, which is weird. But 98 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:22.320 Kelly is really good with dates and numbers. Keys usually gave time frames that 99 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:28.240 consisted of a specific month, within one or two years, or a specific 100 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.360 season within a specific year. Kelly, though, almost always says an exact 101 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:39.879 date and is almost always exactly right when, of course, she's talking about 102 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:46.559 something that actually happened that can actually be verified. For example, when discussing 103 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:52.000 Jason's and Chris's murders, every single time she mentions either murder, she gets 104 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:58.519 the dates exactly right. The most notable thing about this list, though, 105 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:07.440 is the locations of all the bodies, locations that completely exclude the stomachs of 106 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:15.799 their pigs. Kelly has repeatedly gone on and on and on about how Jason 107 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:20.120 fed his victims to their pigs, but when taxed with accounting for his victims 108 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:26.559 and they're whereabouts the pigs don't ever come up. Not a theory on that, 109 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:31.000 But first, let's take a look at Kelly's list of her twenty one 110 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:46.320 alleged victims. Kelly's list and her ensuing explanations of it are much more and 111 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:52.600 forgive this turn of phrase. Fleshed out what began as a handwritten lists similar 112 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:58.799 to Jason's, she slowly filled in over time during her conversations with Ogden. 113 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:05.200 Now, you may recall that Kelly talked about Gary Caldwell being her first murder. 114 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.039 Well, it seems that she forgot about a murder that took place before 115 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:18.519 Gary, because Kelly's chronological list and her discussions regarding it placed Gary as her 116 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:24.600 second victim. Kelly alleges that her first murder took place when she was sixteen. 117 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:30.519 It's a wild story that, like her story about Matt and the King's 118 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:35.639 Motel, has some truth to it, but also a ton of inconsistencies. 119 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:43.559 Kelly claims she met Dylan Austin, a twenty three year old man from Rensselaer, 120 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:50.399 Indiana, through her friend Tim Kay. The two were casually dating when 121 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:54.519 she alleges she murdered him at her parents house in Hobert during an argument about 122 00:12:54.879 --> 00:13:01.559 sex. In later interviews, she would say that the argument was about meth. 123 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.799 She'd also claim to have killed Dylan in a friend's car near Lake Station, 124 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:11.639 Indiana. Those inconsistencies, as weird as they may be, aren't what 125 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:18.039 makes this story so strange, though. Kelly claims that she actually convinced her 126 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:24.720 eleven year old cousin to stab Dylan. That he stabbed Dylan under durest from 127 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.879 Kelly, and then she got rid of the body and cleaned up the mess. 128 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.960 Kelly went on to tell investigators that two years later, that cousin died 129 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:41.320 by suicide, that his actions and their secret led him into a deep depression 130 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:46.000 that ended with him hanging himself in the family garage. And the thing is 131 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:52.679 that actually did happen. Kelly's younger cousin, whom she named, did die 132 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:58.440 by suicide in two thousand and one, approximately two years after this alleged event 133 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:05.120 took place, and Ogden was even able to track down Tim Kay and interviewed 134 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:11.879 him regarding Kelly and Dylan. Tim Kay told Ogden that he spent the oughts 135 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.039 doing a lot of drugs, and his memory of people and events that decade 136 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:22.000 weren't great, but he couldn't recall ever knowing or being friends with someone named 137 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:28.240 Dylan Austen. He also couldn't recall ever knowing or being friends with someone named 138 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:33.320 Kelly Cochrane. Ogden was able to find six different Dylan Austens in the state 139 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:39.240 of Indiana, all of whom are still alive. Kelly claims she dumped Dylan 140 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:46.240 Austen's remains along a small creek at Silver Beach on Lake Michigan, a beach 141 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:54.799 in a highly trafficked area which has no small creek anywhere near it. So 142 00:14:54.200 --> 00:15:01.679 again we have a tenuous claim at best, which includes some strange coincidences and 143 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:07.919 actual truths. Tim Kay doesn't have a common last name at all, so 144 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:13.600 it seems Kelly was at least aware of him and his existence. Kelly's cousin 145 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:18.639 did tragically die by suicide in two thousand and one, and we know Kelly 146 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:24.360 has a history of manipulating others to do her dirty work. So did she 147 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:28.399 convince this poor kid to do something awful or is she just exploiting his death 148 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:35.840 for her own gain, whatever that gain may be. Now, there are 149 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:43.720 two unsolved disappearances that occurred in Indiana when Kelly was sixteen, the first of 150 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:48.919 which occurred in Indianapolis and is believed to have been a suicide. The second, 151 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:56.639 however, happened within walking distance of Kelly's house. John lenn Taylor was 152 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.720 last seen on May twenty first of nineteen ninety nine on the thirty nine hundred 153 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:07.799 block of Adams Street in Gary, Indiana, almost exactly five miles from Kelly's 154 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:14.440 parents' house on Mississippi Street, and just days before Kelly's seventeenth birthday. John 155 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:18.799 was forty eight when he disappeared following an argument with an unnamed person at his 156 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:25.200 girlfriend's house. Almost a year prior to his disappearance, John was shot from 157 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:30.360 behind and left for dead in the same area he disappeared from. The shooter 158 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:34.480 was never identified, and it's unclear whether the shooting and his disappearance are related. 159 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.039 Interestingly, in March of twenty twelve, just three miles north from where 160 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:45.960 Taylor went missing, a human skull was found along a small creek bed. 161 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:53.480 Gary Police have never publicly identified who the school belongs to, but have said 162 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:59.240 it was likely human remains that they'd been looking for for a very long time. 163 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:06.039 The skull was recovered just six miles west along the same highway from Lake 164 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:15.279 Station, Indiana. And here is the trouble with Kelly's lists. The details 165 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:23.160 often line up with actual homicides, it's just the names that don't. Next 166 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:30.160 up on Kelly's list is the infamous Gary Caldwell, who Kelly claims she killed 167 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:34.759 when she was thirteen or fourteen, or some time around her seventeenth birthday, 168 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:41.599 depending on when you ask her. According to Kelly, Gary was from Calumet 169 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:47.759 City, Illinois, served in the military, was twenty four and lived with 170 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:52.519 his mother and sister. She said his remains were never recovered, and she 171 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:57.839 vaguely remembered there being several searches for him, but ultimately she deemed Gary as 172 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:04.160 someone who would not be missed. And again, there is no such missing 173 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:08.960 person. No one went missing from Calumet City in the years she listed, 174 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.640 and there are not any unsolved disappearances for anyone named Gary Caldwell. Ever, 175 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:22.359 the name Gary Caldwell is interesting though. Gary is the closest major city to 176 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:29.880 Meryllville, less than five miles away. Caldwell is a division of nearby Peoria, 177 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:36.279 Illinois, and there is one unsolved disappearance in Caldwell, which occurred a 178 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:44.960 week after Kelly's seventeenth birthday. Michael Stephen Bocot disappeared from the East Peoria neighborhood 179 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:48.920 following a hospital visit. The forty seven year old was hospitalized after a fight 180 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:55.319 at a party. He left the hospital on foot, still in his hospital 181 00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.559 gown, and was never seen again. Michael had no military record to speak 182 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:07.359 of, but he does have a criminal record. Bocot has multiple arrests, 183 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:12.880 including battery and disorderly conduct, and Michael was living with his mother and sister 184 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.720 at the time of his disappearance, and even weirder, he was originally from 185 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:26.000 Mattoon, Illinois. And I don't even know what to make of this. 186 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:32.160 It seems like a stretch to connect Kelly to his disappearance simply based on the 187 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:38.720 name Gary Caldwell, but the coincidences between his disappearance and Kelly's list are strange 188 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:47.880 and strong anyhow, Moving on. Number three on Kelly's list is Chris Adams, 189 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.160 who she claimed to have killed in two thousand and three and merely stated 190 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:57.680 that he was neither from nor killed in Indiana. Then there's Michael Marcus, 191 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:06.920 whom and later reviews she calls Michael Vargas from East Chicago. Kelly says she 192 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:11.200 stabbed Michael to death and his remains have never been recovered. The details in 193 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:17.400 both of these claims are too vague and common to yield anything. However, 194 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:23.480 East Chicago will come up a lot in Kelly's claims. Next up is the 195 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:30.920 two thousand and six stabbing of Daniel Vedamos from East Chicago. Kelly claims she 196 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:37.559 dumped his body in Robinson Lake in Hobert. In addition to East Chicago, 197 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:44.839 Robinson Lake will also come up a lot in Kelly's lists. Now, there 198 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:51.319 are no unsolved disappearances of anyone named Daniel Vedomos or even anyone with the last 199 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:57.720 name Vedamos. I'm sure you're shocked. There are four unsolved disappearances from Chicago 200 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:03.640 in two thousand and six, though three of whom are men. One of 201 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:08.720 those three men is strongly believed to be in Mexico, so that leaves us 202 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:17.440 with Ted Pulka and Jesse Warren Ross. If you're a rapid true crime consumer, 203 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:22.599 you're probably familiar with Jesse Ross's case. Jesse disappeared in the early morning 204 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:27.640 hours on November twenty first while at a model un conference with the University of 205 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:33.119 Missouri Kansas City. He was nineteen at the time, and he doesn't really 206 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:38.960 match Kelly's claims nor her known victimology. Ted Pauca, on the other hand, 207 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:45.640 does Ted was forty two when he disappeared. He was unemployed and a 208 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:49.200 heavy drinker and drug user who was known to live somewhat on the periphery in 209 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:56.799 East Chicago. Kelly claims she met Daniel Vedamos in East Chicago through her friend 210 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:03.400 who will call Tanya, who Kelly referred to as a druggy slut. She 211 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:11.119 claimed they were either buying or using drugs when she met Daniel. I've reached 212 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.640 out to Tanya, but as of this recording, haven't heard back from her. 213 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:21.519 Like East Chicago and Robinson Lake, Tanya comes up several times in Kelly's 214 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:27.880 lists. Number six is forty something Charles Price, who Kelly claims she killed 215 00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:33.880 outside of a bar in East Chicago. She says she knew him very well, 216 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:38.720 which is funny considering it took her over an hour to remember his last 217 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:45.519 name. Kelly claims that she stabbed him in the neck, then took his 218 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:49.920 body to Cedar Lake, Indiana, where she poured acid on him. She 219 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:56.119 says that she accidentally burned herself with the acid, pointing out a clear burn 220 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:03.200 scar on her stomach. Again, no missing Charles Prices anywhere in the United 221 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:08.519 States. Number seven is a damn mess and it's one you're familiar with. 222 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:15.599 When first written, it was Jason Boden or Jason Salmon Tico from Hasting, 223 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:22.000 Minnesota. However, after meeting with Hasting police, as we discussed in episode 224 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:29.200 twelve, Kelly made some changes to her story. During her interview she said 225 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:34.160 Jason was from Saint Cloud and not Hasting, and after her interview, she 226 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:41.440 told Ogden that her victim wasn't Jason Boden or Samon Tico, but Jason Olsen, 227 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:47.799 who was a friend of Jason Boden slash Jason Salmon Tico. It should 228 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:52.880 be noted that this name change occurred after Kelly's meeting with the Hasting investigator, 229 00:23:52.359 --> 00:24:06.640 whose name is Jason Olsen. Number eight on Kelly's list is simply Dan from 230 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:11.920 Hobert, who Kelly claims was a thirty something man who she met through Tania 231 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:19.160 and eventually forced to drink acid. She later dissolved his remaining remains in acid 232 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:26.319 and dumped that plastic tub at the Hobert dump. Next up is Tony Miller, 233 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:32.279 a man from Merrylville she claims she had an ongoing sexual relationship with in 234 00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:37.759 two thousand nine and two thousand ten. Kelly says she stabbed Tony in the 235 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:42.480 neck while he was in his Chrysler Sea Bring. Then she drove the car 236 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:51.000 back to her house on Mississippi Street, where Jason somehow inexplicably destroyed it on 237 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:56.920 their property without anyone knowing. Tony's body was allegedly dumped in a marsh in 238 00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:03.559 Highland, Indiana. When further pressed about the car, Kelly claimed that she 239 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:08.400 and Jason destroyed every car that was ever involved in their homicides. They usually 240 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:15.319 set them on fire, but they had also cut several up. Number ten 241 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:21.839 was Adam Russell. You may notice that most of these men have very common 242 00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:26.720 names. Kelly claims that she met Adam at a friend's house in two thousand 243 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:30.400 and nine, and that he was in town on vacation. She says he 244 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.680 was twenty eight and that she stabbed him to death at this friend's house. 245 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:41.839 And then, and you'll love this, she stole a boat. Somehow got 246 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:47.720 his bloody body from her friend's house onto the stolen boat without anyone being the 247 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:52.720 wiser, then sailed the stolen boat into a nearby lake and sank his body. 248 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:57.480 According to Kelly, she never saw any reporting on Adam being missing, 249 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:03.359 but she did cease several stories about the missing boat. Now, thankfully, 250 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:10.920 there's a pretty comprehensive list of watercraft that's been reported stolen, and according to 251 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:15.079 that list, in two thousand and nine, the closest stolen boat to Merrillville 252 00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:22.880 was over one hundred miles away in Fox Lake, Illinois. Number eleven is 253 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:30.119 Brandon Baker, who is definitely not a real person. According to Kelly, 254 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.000 they grew up together. She killed him in two thousand and nine in the 255 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:38.559 woods behind his parents' house in Demot, Indiana, when they were both twenty 256 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:44.119 five or twenty six. She didn't bury him, but she did cover up 257 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:49.119 his body with nearby dirt and debris. And no, there's no missing Brandon 258 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:57.640 Baker from Demot or Hobert or Merrillville or anywhere. And yes, it's wildly 259 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:03.359 unrealistic that a man could be dead in his own parents' backyard for over a 260 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:10.039 decade without ever being recovered. And no, no one in Kelly's family knows 261 00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:17.519 anyone with this name or a similar name. But Kelly also told investigators that 262 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:22.279 she still knew Brandon's phone number by heart, which obviously I won't share on 263 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:29.160 the podcast. Kelly stated during this confession that numbers are very important to her, 264 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:33.480 which is why she's so good at remembering them, specifically dates and phone 265 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:40.759 numbers. Anyway, that phone number can be traced back to someone rather interesting, 266 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.000 a man with no visible connections to Kelly or her family, who worked 267 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:52.359 in Calumet City in the mining and manufacturing industry, and he lived all over 268 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:59.160 the Hobert area. A man who is very much alive. And we'll circle 269 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:06.000 back to that man in just a few minutes. Next is Sean Stoker. 270 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:11.359 Yes, Kelly has a thing for alliteration. Sean was a twenty six year 271 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.599 old man from Hebrew, Indiana, who Kelly alleges to have stabbed multiple times 272 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:23.640 at a campground in nearby White County in twenty twelve. Kelly says his remains 273 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:30.319 can be found intact in an abandoned mining pit in north Crawfordsville, Indiana. 274 00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:37.039 She also says the number fourteen is very important in this case. Yes, 275 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:44.279 about halfway through her confessions, Kelly suddenly became a numerologist. Nobodies have ever 276 00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:48.880 been recovered from any abandoned mines in Crawfordsville, So, presuming this is a 277 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:55.160 real person, he's still missing. There are only four men who went missing 278 00:28:55.160 --> 00:29:00.000 in Indiana in twenty twelve whose cases are still open, and none of them 279 00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:07.039 are from Hebron or Crawfordsville, or even White County. None of them went 280 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:14.039 missing while camping. And yes, I did look, and the number fourteen 281 00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:21.920 doesn't come up in any of those cases. Speaking of numbers, number thirteen 282 00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:29.039 on Kelly's list is James Walker from the East Side of Chicago. Kelly says 283 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:34.519 she took a mini filet knife from him as a trophy. Number fourteen is 284 00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:41.839 simply Mike. Mike was either from Hebron or Noblesville, two towns with no 285 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:47.839 reported missing persons cases. Kelly injected poor Mike with speed before stabbing him in 286 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:52.480 the neck. While recounting this murder, she anecdotally told Ogden that it takes 287 00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:57.359 exactly six minutes for a man to bleed out from a next stabbing. So 288 00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:03.799 there's that. Mike was murdered in twenty thirteen and sunk in a lake somewhere 289 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:11.359 in Indiana. Around the same time as Mike, Kelly also killed Doug. 290 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:18.160 She stabbed Doug two, then she burned his finger tips with acid and knocked 291 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:25.119 out all of his teeth with a chisel and hammer. His remains are somewhere 292 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:30.960 in Lake Michigan near Whiting, Indiana. Doug was twenty nine years old, 293 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:38.400 and sometime between Doug and Kelly's moved Iron River. In January of twenty fourteen, 294 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:45.759 she killed Aaron Justice, a person who doesn't seem to exist. Aaron 295 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:52.079 was from you guessed it, East Chicago. She stabbed him to death in 296 00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:56.640 Chestertown, Indiana, then buried him in a shallow grave near a pond. 297 00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:03.920 Maybe coincidentally. Richard Justice disappeared from Fort Wayne, Indiana on December first of 298 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.480 two thousand and six. Fort Wayne is a two and a half hour drive 299 00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:12.680 from Merrillville. There are very few details available regarding Richard. All we know 300 00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:18.200 is he was fifty at the time of his disappearance. The alleged murders of 301 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:25.519 Mike doug and mister Justice all would have occurred around the time Andrew Fugate was 302 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:33.160 murdered in Merrillville. Number seventeen is m Turner from Michigan City. Kelly killed 303 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.440 him in the summer of twenty fifteen, after she returned to Indiana from the 304 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:44.640 Upper Peninsula. Apparently twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen were very busy years for Kelly. 305 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:49.119 She claims mister Turner's remains can be found in a farmer's pond in either 306 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:56.680 Wamata or Mawata, neither of which are places that seem to exist. Now. 307 00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:02.279 There are three unsolved disappearance from Michigan City, Indiana, and only one 308 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:09.720 of them is a man, Francisco Huizar. Francisco was last seen leaving his 309 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:15.799 home at around two fifty pm on March seventeenth of two thousand. He was 310 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.400 on his way to work the night shift at his job at the press department 311 00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:24.000 at PSW Incorporated, less than a mile and a half from his home. 312 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:31.359 He was never seen again. However, Francisco's car was found on April third 313 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:37.799 in a nature preserve in Gary, Indiana. It had been burned beyond recognition 314 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:42.880 and could only be identified by its then. And here's the weird thing. 315 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:47.400 Remember that phone number that Kelly recited to police. The phone number she claimed 316 00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:52.440 belonged to Brandon Baker, while it belonged to a man who worked in the 317 00:32:52.519 --> 00:33:04.200 building adjacent to where Francisco's car was found. Shortly after murdering m Turner in 318 00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:08.759 twenty fifteen, Kelly claims to have stabbed twenty two year old Nathan Holder. 319 00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:15.880 Nathan Holder is allegedly from Belleville, Illinois. Kelly says she took his wallet 320 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:21.519 and hat as trophies, and claims the coordinates to his house can be found 321 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:30.200 on her trucks. GPS spoiler alert, they weren't. The only unsolved disappearance 322 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:36.000 out of Belleville is that of Donna Mezzo, who disappeared when Kelly was nine. 323 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:42.279 There's a missing Monterio holder from Indianapolis, but he went missing when Kelly 324 00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:46.880 was eleven. Now, both cochrings have connections to Saint Louis, which is 325 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.720 just across the river from Bellevue, and we'll be getting into those in a 326 00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:59.200 future episode. And finally, on Kelly's list are Jason and the Mattoon truck 327 00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:06.359 driver. If you're keeping track and realize there are only twenty victims, yeah, 328 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:12.039 I caught it too. So she claimed Jason killed eleven people but listed 329 00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:16.039 twelve, and she claimed that she killed twenty one people but listed twenty. 330 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:22.880 So I guess in the end it still adds up to thirty two. You'll 331 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:28.519 also note that Kelly has repeatedly told family and investigators that she has a victim 332 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:34.400 in Tennessee, and yet the only mention of Tennessee is Jason's alleged murder at 333 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:43.360 the Kingsway Motel on the Kentucky Tennessee border. Kelly closed her lengthy confession with 334 00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:49.400 this very charming quote. Everything I've told you is true, just not all 335 00:34:49.440 --> 00:35:00.280 the details. In all of my research and investigation into Israel Keys, I 336 00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:06.280 never once thought this thing I'm about to write or say is totally unreasonable and 337 00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:12.880 borders on crazy. With my investigation into Kelly, I feel that constantly, 338 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:17.840 and I can't help but wonder if maybe that's the point, to give us 339 00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:24.960 just enough misleading information that every road we go down makes us feel like lunatics, 340 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:34.400 and rather than questioning her, we start to question ourselves. I mean, 341 00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:40.800 if Kelly has proven to be anything, it's terrifyingly good at gaslighting people. 342 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:49.239 So what's the utility to all of these lies? And what exactly is 343 00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:53.760 she lying about? Is it the details and not the names like she claims, 344 00:35:55.039 --> 00:36:00.679 or is it the names and not the details, because most of the 345 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:07.239 details on her lists point sometimes eerily to actual murders and actual missing people. 346 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:16.000 And we've only just begun exploring the eerie connections between what the Cochranes have written 347 00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:20.320 and crimes that have actually occurred.