WEBVTT

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Oh hey, y'all, welcome to
Coming Out the podcast formerly no as Coming

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Out with Lord and Nicole. And
I mentioned this specifically because today Nicole is

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back. I'm sorry. This really
lovely. We're reunited and it does indeed

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feel so good. We're doing our
fifth annual listener mail bag, which bonkers

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so exciting. But as I was
telling Nicole off Mike, so now I

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do start every episode with a queer
root shout out. And the reason why

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I just started doing that is because
I missed our little banter up top.

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I didn't want to just like dive
in, so I was like, I

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need like something to like run my
mouth a little up top, and so

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I started doing this queer root shout
out situation. And so today's will obviously

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be in honor of you. Now, Nicole's actual queer root is Ricky,

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which if you're a longtime listener,
you know episode one, Nicole tells the

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story. We then eventually found Ricky
thanks to an amazing listener. We brought

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Ricky on the pod and talked to
her. So that is Nicole's factual queer

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root bud queer root shout out.
Because I know this was also important to

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you shout out to you if your
queer root is the movie The Craft this

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was, I know also figures into
your burgeoning queerness in middle school. Oh

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in middle school, Oh my goodness, thanks, I forget how you were

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so advanced. I forget that that's
right in middle school. But for many

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of you out there, I'm sure
that this movie stirred some feelings. Perhaps

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you created a little queer coven of
your own. Maybe you did. Some

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spells had to be sealed with a
kiss, even though they never do that

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in the movie. They well that's
not true. They did. They do

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when they're passing. Really yeah,
when it's it's when they they're doing the

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pass off of the cup with the
knife before they're like at the beginning of

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their ritual in the woods, when
they like make all of the white butterflies

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appear. They did not realize sound
like a letterbox radio. This is like

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very specific. Okay, So they
do do they kiss each other? Yes?

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Have I only ever seen this movie
on but kiss each other? But

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they don't make out like me and
my friends did. Okay, Like like

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I want to be like very specific. Theirs was was a sisterly kiss with

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maybe a slight edge. You know
ours, Ours was not ours was all

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edge sixth grade. This is really
fascinating. I'm gonna have to go to

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YouTube because I'm starting to think that
this is one of those movies I only

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ever saw on TVs or TNT,
and that that's because I have no memory

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of them, of them smooching.
So okay, well that's very exciting.

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So shout out to you if you're
a queer. Root is the movie the

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Craft. Y'all, we got a
lot of amazing questions. I want to

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give props to the LA LGBT Centers
Her Stories group because I asked a participan

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yeah to post in their slack and
y'all came up with some wonderful questions.

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We're just going to dive right in
because we do have so many, and

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some of these are shorties, as
the kids say, so we're gonna end

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the episode with sort of a rapid
fire back and forth of the questions that

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kind of have short answers, but
a lot of them are more elaborate and

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we really want to give them their
due. So we're just gonna get started

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with your questions. So the first
one, I'm sort of combining two questions,

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but I thought this was a good
way to kick to kick things off.

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The question is, how can you
tell if someone is gay slash?

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What is gaydar? Is it real
or made up? What are your feelings?

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It's so real, it is so
it is absolutely not made up.

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I mean obviously the word gaydar is
made up. And it's you know,

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I don't love puns, but I
love that one. Oh, I do

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love puns, and I love that
one. It's it's a really good one.

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No, it so is right,
It's like, immediately, this is

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so cheesy, and you know,
here I am showing my theater doc as

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always, but like, but it
immediately made me think of like, you

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know, it's the Ring of Keys
moment, right, like the it's literally

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in the musical, like what was
the fucking what's the musical? Cinema?

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The music? But felm, I
literally wanted to be like Home, Fun

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Home, Coming Home. It's dead, I don't know, okay, fun

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home anyway, so uh in fun
Home like it like when she's a kid

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and she sees the lesbian walk in
with the Ring of keys, right,

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and it is that like aha moment
of recognition of same, right, like

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and that is and and when you
think about it, like from that standpoint

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that yes, there's there are signals
that are like, oh, this is

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maybe a more masculine presenting woman,
and so, you know, outward clues

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that wouldn't necessarily need some sort of
like internal you know, sy sense.

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But stop. Also straight people can
and again it depends on like how gay,

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right, But like I still it's
it's different because I'm actually amazed at

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how many street straight people don't pick
up on stuff like that. And then

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it makes me go, ah,
yes, like it's more than just these

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outward facing sort of these presentational clues. It really has so much to do

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with a vibe. You know,
it's a vibe. I think that's a

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vibe. It is a vibe.
And like I it is so rare when

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someone tells me that they're queer that
I didn't that where I'm surprised. I

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mean, that's really rare that I'm
surprised. That's a great point. Yeah,

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I'm trying to think of the last
time I was like really caught off

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guard, and I'm not sure when
that would have. Like a great example

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was when the god this was such
a beautiful moment when the Sophia Bush News

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broke, and I feel like everybody
was like, oh, finally, like

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we know it, like they.
I feel like there was very little reaction

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from queer people that was like what, Like, I feel like that's a

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good example of what you're speaking to. I think for me, I don't

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think a terrific gadar, But I
think for me, when it gets confusing

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is like what you're talking about,
the pure gadar of the Ring of Keys

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moment, I think, like that's
beautiful and pure. For me, when

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it gets confusing is if I like
like someone, then I feel like it

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can gum up my gadar because it's
like I'm wanting it, So it's not

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a pure form of it because I
might be projecting stuff and then I second

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guess myself and it's a whole fucking
thing. So I think there's gadar when

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you're just like regarding someone as a
human, and then there's gaydar when you're

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hoping they're queer, and that gaydar
is less reliable. Yeah, And I

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that's the funny thing because like,
I feel like that's the part of me

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that I sort of I don't know
if it's just out of like self preservation

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or what where I I'm like,
yeah, no, nope, no,

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no, if there's a sliver of
a no, like I know I do

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that same thing. I do that
same I just I have a good friend

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who I absolutely adore, who like, if she were queer, I probably

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would have like had a what I
would call a full blown crush on her,

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but I really and I've like joked
to her about it before, but

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I never let myself actually go there
because something in me was like, she's

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she's not queer, she's not She's
just not. I know she's developed that

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quality. I think I'm getting better
at it. I will also say I

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feel like everyone, not everyone.
I feel like many, many people under

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say thirty years old, especially a
fab folks, are identifying as queer more

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and more. So I feel like
I'm like, ooh, my gatar is

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getting better. It's like, I
don't think it's getting better anything more.

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People are just identifying it's clear.
I think that's also pretty true, and

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I think they're also much more open
to just kind of being and then yeah,

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not labeling it necessarily yeah yeah,
which by the way, relates to

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one of our other questions. I
don't know if we want to transition into

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Oh, let's go Yeah, which
one are you thinking? Let's go to

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that one. Do we feel that
street people should have to come out?

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Oh? Yeah, okay, yeah, that's that's right. And the question

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says, do you think straight people
should have to do a coming out process?

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I'm gonna let me say first because
I don't want to be like influenced

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by your answer, because that can
happen a lot. So yeah, I

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completely get it. I don't know
if this is controversial. I'm gonna say

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no. I am one of those
people where I I joke about it a

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lot, but I don't think that. To me, concepts like majority and

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minority and stuff like that aren't like, they're not emotional concepts. They're statistical

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realities. And the reality is the
majority. I think it's less of a

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majority than it used to be,
as I just noted, but I think

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the majority of people are straight identifying, and so I think it's okay to

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say, like, if you are
not, there's kind of more of an

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impetus to make that known. Now, I'm not saying that's necessarily fair,

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quote unquote, but like nothing in
life is fair, I think it's justified

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that people even though we don't love
it, and we've spoken about that before.

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I think it's understandable that if you
are not presentationally quote unquote, other

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people will assume straight depending on,
you know, their own background, where

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they grow up and stuff. So
I it's funny to joke about, but

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I think it's okay to be like, I don't think every single person in

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the world should have to come out
as like what they are. I know

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that's maybe controversial, but I do
just kind of feel like I'm a very

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rational, pragmatic, reality based person
and the reality is like more people are

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straight. So I don't think that
like every single straight person should have to

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do a coming out process, although
I do. I do love to joke

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about it, and I would sort
of love to see the awkwardness of the

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straight coming out. So yeah,
that's anyway, that's my thought on that

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that would be. That would be
great, and yeah, I'm not going

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to turn it down. I definitely
want to see a sketch on it.

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At least actually, I have seen
a sketch on it, like with you

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know, it's joking about like coming
out to your like progressive parents as straight

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and they yes, I've seen that
are like, what did we do wrong,

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you know, like I think it's
very funny. Yeah, but yeah,

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I am in your camp on this
one. Oh, I do not.

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I do not think that that straight
people should have to have a coming

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out process. And and for that
matter, nor do I I think that

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sis people should have to have a
coming out process. To be honest,

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I don't think that anybody should have
to have a coming out process. Oh

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that's kind of like that's actually where
where it goes. You know, Lauren

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and I over the years talked about
with this podcast, like the incredible the

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vital need, especially in certain parts
of this country and especially abroad, the

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vital need for coming out stories.
You know that that very much continues because

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people need to hear that other people
did it and are on the other side

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and are living happy lives and are
are able to you know, are thriving

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right and no matter how difficult,
the coming out was right. And so

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but we said over and over again, you know, like we we coming

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out like a podcast dedicated to coming
out stories, like until we don't have

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to come out anymore, like until
there's not a right And I do think

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even though it's like you know,
it feels far fetched at this moment,

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it feels very utopic and whatever to
be like, I'd like a world where

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no one has to come out like
but personally that's how I feel so like

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I would. I feel like making
stream people come out is going the opposite

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direction of where I would life to
see the world going, and like humanity

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evolving to like I like like I
would like it to swing the other way,

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where in fact, what kids are
taught from a young age is not

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to assume is that is that it's
there's an it's an open you know,

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like the world is your oyster and
your inner life is your inner life,

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and it's going to present itself in
whatever natural way it does and will applaud

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you and support you, and yeah, you know, like it's all fine.

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You know that to me feels like
where I would like to see things

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going is actually away from coming out
in general, because and I say that

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like also as a poly person,
right, I feel that deeply I wish

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that the that we weren't, like
compulsory monogamy wasn't a thing, just as

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compulsory heterosexuality is like the assumptions of
those things that we project onto ourselves and

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other people as a result of like
our conditioning is like sort of the root

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of where the damage comes from.
So I would like things to change in

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the opposite direction. That's my opinion. Yeah, that's a great point.

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Well, that kind of leads into
let's do this next one then, which

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asks are there people that you never
come out to? Are there times where

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you feel you have to hide your
queerness? I feel like this is something

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we've talked about, but kind of
over the years on the podcast, this

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has come up. And I will
say I always I am in the camp,

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and I think most of us are
that safety should always always be prioritized.

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There is if it's ever a matter
of safety of potentially getting kicked out

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of a home of some sort of
conflict, be it well certainly physical,

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but even like an emotional conflict,
that like, you are never, as

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Nicole just said, you are never
obligated to come out, and I would

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argue that in situations that could be
detriment to you, you probably should not

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come out. And that does not
You're not you know, the ancestors aren't

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looking down from heaven and being like
no, like that is't no, Like

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the ancestors want you to be safe. We want you to be safe.

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So I think in those situations,
I hope it goes without saying, like

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always protect yourself and it doesn't have
to be as extreme as I've just said.

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It can be. You're in an
uber and you're getting a kind of

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a possibly weird vibe from the driver, like something like that change a pronoun

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like you know, like when you
like or don't like, like that's the

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thing is or don't, But I
just prioritize your your safety safety. Yeah,

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that's the thing is because like that
that bar also for some people is

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going to be vastly different. Right, Some people are going to be are

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going to see that as a challenge
and to want to confront Yeah, and

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then other people are going to want
to protect themselves either physically or emotionally or

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both. And that's all. All
of those reactions are valid. Absolutely,

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So Yeah, that's I think,
Oh God, are there ever times I

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what is it? What was the
what is the exact phrasing of this?

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Again, it's the exact phrasing.
Was are there people that you never come

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out to other times where you feel
you have to hide your queerness? And

209
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again we should note that is a
privilege to even be able to hide your

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awereness, because some folks can't hide
the fact that they're queer and a you

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know, visible visual sense A one
hundred percent yes, So I mean,

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yeah, no, I feel like
I mean, we've talked about this a

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million times about how coming out doesn't
happen once, you know, we talk

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about coming out stories as though it's
like it's like, oh, it happened,

215
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and then it's over. There are
smaller and bigger coming outs that happen

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throughout your life, as you meet
new people, as you are in different

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situations that are like, you know, everything from older family members you know

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of different generations or different cultures and
things like that, to your neighbor,

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to your Uber driver, to your
employer. I mean, it is just

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over and over and over and over
and like, I'm not, I'm not.

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This is a sad thing to say, and I guess I've never thought

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about it in these terms, but
I have trouble imagining a future in which

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I am still alive, where I'm
not going to have to be consciously making

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a decision in a moment whether to
come out to somebody or not. I

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specifically think about this still a lot
when it comes to polyamory obviously, which

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I feel is you know, big
one right now, I think, yeah,

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big time, I mean, and
that's really hard. That's everything from

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my kids' school to the new church
that we joined, to our neighbors,

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you know, especially our older neighbors, are neighbors who are from different cultures

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as well, you know where you're
linking. I don't know how that works

231
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in your culture, and I you
know, I yeah, all of that,

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and so I I'm constantly doing it
from that standpoint. And I mean,

233
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but even when it comes to just
like being queer, I do it

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just slightly to a lesser extent,
but still, like we had and I

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say, this was so much love
for her. We had one of our

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our neighbors in her eighties over for
Thanksgiving. She's lovely. Yeah, she

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really like that. Yeah, I
really like. I connected with her kind

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of the first time we ever spoke, because she reminds me of a lot

239
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of my nana, of my mom's
mom, and I missed my nana terribly,

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so there was an immediate connection.
But so she's great, and she's

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talking, talking, talking up the
storm, you know, at the dinner

242
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table, and she was talking about
the church that she attends and how some

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people like the sort of membership turnover
they've had. And she said that some

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of the older women in the church
they had they had a lesbian pastor come

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in at some point. So we're
not talking a Catholic church, right,

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Like I don't know what the denomination
is, but did a lesbian pastor come

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in at some point? And some
of her contemporaries were not happy about it

248
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and and threatened to leave the church
if they didn't, you know, because

249
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and she and she made a comment
like I mean, I don't care she's

250
00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:34.039
but she said, but she said, I don't care, you know,

251
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as long as she's not hitting on
me, I don't care. And I'm

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like, that's like such a older
generation the way of thinking about that,

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because it implies that like somehow we're
more. It applies that some lesbian is

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going to hit on every woman in
her orbits, so she's going to have

255
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or whatever. Yeah, but like
you hear men saying it about game that

256
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we're wan like absolutely absolutely as first
of all, as though like there's some

257
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sort of hot piece that the gay
man would want to hit up a shallow

258
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:15.839
if you can get a gay man's
attention like, who, then I guess

259
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:19.480
you're doing something right. Yeah,
agreed exactly, Yeah you should be so

260
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lucky exactly, but like but yeah, it implies it all sort of goes

261
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goes into that like yeah, that
somehow we're perverts, right, Like that's

262
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where it really comes from. And
even though I'm sure that she would not

263
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say that she believes that about gay
people, the comment, you know,

264
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I'm watching like Mandala sitting right next
to her and her saying this, and

265
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I'm seizing up and being like and
she doesn't know what our dynamic is and

266
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because I don't know, like,
and there have been multiple times where I'm

267
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like, how do I what do? How do we say what we are

268
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:07.000
and who? And do we or
is this an important enough relationship? And

269
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I'm also not going to be like, hey, we're not perverts at fucking

270
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Thanksgiving dinner to my eighty six year
old neighbor who had nowhere to go for

271
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Thanksgiving, like like, do you
know what I mean? It's yes,

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it's meeting people where they are.
It's also not your job to have You're

273
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:29.599
not obligated to have an emotionally exhausting, very vulnerable disclosing a lot about your

274
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own life discussion in your home on
Thanksgiving. Like and again, if you're

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someone who wants to do that,
God fucking bless you. We need you.

276
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But that is not everybody has to
do that, And you don't have

277
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to feel guilty if you don't want
to do that in a specific moment.

278
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I mean, for me, had
it been like egregious, like if she

279
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.000
made a truth, if she said
a true slur, or like made it

280
00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:02.119
very clear. Absolutely, they're gray
areas like feels this was very correct,

281
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yes, like where I think the
intention was good and so like and and

282
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I know that she's very liberal.
She is, like she has said that

283
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her celebrities are like you know,
the anchor is on MSNBC, you know,

284
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:18.400
so like like this is the kind
of person we're talking about, you

285
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:23.319
know, So in those situations,
I just sort of give the benefit of

286
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:26.480
the doubt and I go, you
know, if she and I ever get

287
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.519
together for tea and we have longer
conversations one on one about our lives,

288
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.920
then I'll probably drop it in there
somehow and she'll learn some information about me

289
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.599
and it'll be great, you know. But like, but those are choices

290
00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:41.680
all the time. It's like,
Okay, great. I literally just had

291
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.640
to make that choice. And I
feel like those happen all the time,

292
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:52.960
and it is uncomfortable every single time. I feel like I'm holding my breath

293
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:59.119
in a situation like that. I'm
also hurting for Mandala because of course I'm

294
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.319
the I'm the passing one because I
have a husband, whereas Mandala is like,

295
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:08.720
you know, looking adorable in her
like in her little like suit that

296
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:14.599
she's in for Thanksgiving, and you
know, and then that hurts me for

297
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.920
her, and so it's like a
whole you know, yeah, anyway,

298
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:23.920
sorry, Yeah, yeah, So
that's my answer to that. No,

299
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:29.079
I think and this this is going
to segue us nicely into we have some

300
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.200
Nicole specific poly questions, but I
will know, Yeah, I do think.

301
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:41.519
I think polyamory is like a big
one right now in terms of do

302
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.039
you disclose and coming out. And
as I mentioned, when I had Richard

303
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.039
Chavonn, who I love of the
poly podcast on, I think it was

304
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:52.880
a couple of months ago, I
told the listeners, I was like,

305
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.960
just so you know, we've had
more polygaests on the podcast than you even

306
00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:03.240
know about. But a lot of
that we're not able to be out about

307
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.240
being Polly for work or their family
might hear it or something like that.

308
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:14.319
So people you, you as listeners
have heard beautiful, elaborate, vulnerable coming

309
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:19.799
out stories from people who were also
keeping a little something back because they had

310
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:23.839
to. So even like, yeah, so it's just really interesting. I

311
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:29.440
do think Polly is a big one
right now in terms of the decision to

312
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:37.880
disclose or because that can affect people's
careers, et cetera. So yeah,

313
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:44.079
it's also like in terms of like, what is the actual question? Probably

314
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:47.359
okay, so we have no no, this is great, Okay, So

315
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:52.000
we have two questions specifically for Nicole. Uh. The first is, well,

316
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:55.839
the first is clearly laid out.
It says, what would you say

317
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.920
is the most important relationship skill you've
learned from being the hand in a v

318
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:06.119
relationship? And then the second one
is a more general because I also ask

319
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:10.279
for discussion topics as well as specific
questions. The second one just says is

320
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:15.559
asking if you can speak to polyamory
and breakups, And we honestly weren't sure

321
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.160
if this question were like, is
this two separate questions where they want us

322
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.240
to talk about polyamory and then talk
about breakups, but we also thought it

323
00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:26.200
might be a good opportunity to talk
about this specificity of when breakups happen within

324
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:30.279
polyamory and just how that sort of
functions, because that is its own unique

325
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:36.240
thing. So those are our two
polyamory questions, and yeah, you want

326
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.200
to speak to those in any order. Yeah, I'll speak to the first

327
00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:47.079
one first. So if for those
who aren't familiar being in like when we

328
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:51.240
say, you know, the hinge
in a V relationship, what that means

329
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:56.759
is it's there are three people involved
in the relationship, but there is only

330
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.160
one of them is the meeting point, right, So picture of the and

331
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.519
it has like the you know,
the two arms coming across off of it

332
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:11.359
rather, so that looks a lot
like you know, the traditional dynamic with

333
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.920
me, Gustav and Mandala, right, where like I am the only romantic

334
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:22.759
sexual partner of the two of them
in our formation, and the two of

335
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.440
them are you know, platonic partners, right, So that's that's what that

336
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:32.160
looks like. So and we call
that person in the middle me a hinge.

337
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:41.920
Right, So oh man, this
is where like all of those the

338
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:49.480
like have your cake and eat it
too, mits really really come into play

339
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:53.039
where people act like, well,
yeah, it's easy for you. I

340
00:27:53.079 --> 00:28:00.200
mean you're the like you have something, you're getting, all the high you're

341
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.440
getting, all the attention you like, aren't you so lucky? Are you

342
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.880
know? Like what have you got
to complain about? The blah? What

343
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.039
do they get out of it?
Like, I see what you get?

344
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:15.880
What do they get out of it? Yeah? Exactly exactly. So there's

345
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:22.839
so and and those those questions and
those assumptions are very pervasive, right.

346
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:27.519
And I will say that I put
an enormous amount of pressure on myself.

347
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:33.960
This is also just like part of
my like codependency as a human being that

348
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:40.119
I'm working through. I put an
enormous amount of pressure on myself for years

349
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:48.279
in our relationship to like be the
rock that held it all together and to

350
00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:56.319
like never really voice any of my
anxieties that I was feeling, or any

351
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.240
loneliness that I was feeling in the
position of being a hinge or any of

352
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.880
that, because it was like,
well, I get to be with these

353
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.200
two wonderful people, So what do
I have to complain about? And I

354
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.319
just have to make sure at all
times that they're okay, Like that's my

355
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.960
job is to make sure they are
okay, and to like bend myself into

356
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:22.119
whatever shape I need to be able
to hold up the weight of their like

357
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:30.240
emotional needs. Right, that doesn't
work as long as time learn term strategy.

358
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:38.039
So like, I just what I
have learned is that, first of

359
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:41.640
all, and this should come as
no surprise, but we still think we

360
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:47.720
can do it. No matter your
relationship structure, you can never, ever,

361
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:55.000
ever, ever fulfill every single emotional
need of your partner or partners ever.

362
00:29:55.559 --> 00:30:00.720
Putting that pressure on yourself is a
fool's errand and it will lead to

363
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:12.119
massive burnout, not to mention that
it takes away the opportunity for your partners

364
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:18.720
to find that within themselves or for
themselves fulfilled their emotional needs in other ways

365
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:27.400
that are also really important. Right, So number one, number two,

366
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:36.960
Like, it is very okay to
acknowledge that you are incredibly grateful to have

367
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:42.240
two or I guess more, but
in this case two wonderful humans who you

368
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:48.440
with whom you are in relationship,
while also saying, and this is really

369
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:56.039
fucking hard. And I am a
person with infinite love but not infinite time

370
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:03.200
and energy. And there aren't two
people in this relationship, there are three.

371
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:06.559
And I am the third and I
also need to take care of myself

372
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:15.559
because without doing that first and foremost, the whole thing collapses. And so

373
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:22.559
you're just getting built in alone time
the way the other two people are getting

374
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.119
built in alone time. If you're
built in alone time, built in friend

375
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:32.400
time, you know, built like
all of that. And and it just

376
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:38.000
I've tried over and over and over
in my life to like, do all

377
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:48.079
the things be everywhere at once,
have it all, and my friends,

378
00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:56.720
it doesn't. It doesn't work.
And you can have abundance in your life

379
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:07.839
while also acknowledging your limitations and and
and really making peace with those and being

380
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:13.960
okay, and in doing so,
giving the people you love and who love

381
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:22.319
you the opportunity to find fulfillment elsewhere
whatever that looks like. So that that

382
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:30.680
is my massive amount of like advice, man, don't take that on yourself.

383
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:34.839
And also connect with other hinge people. That's like a big that's a

384
00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:39.920
big one too. That's really helpful
because it is a very particular position to

385
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.960
have to be in, and it's
really helpful to talk to other people who

386
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:47.240
understand and you go, oh my
god, Okay, so it's not just

387
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:53.519
me who feels the weight of two
different people's happiness on me. You know,

388
00:32:53.640 --> 00:33:00.240
that's a lot of responsibility. And
take care. Just take take care

389
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:05.599
of yourself, really take care of
yourself. Yeah, so that's my answer

390
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:09.119
the first question. Okay, okay, And then, as I said to

391
00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:14.640
you off, the other question made
me think of the in terms of polyamory,

392
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:19.400
break of the short film that it
was Lee's Angelica, right, and

393
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:27.519
isn't it she wrote and directed.
Yeah, and Matt Pascual am I saying

394
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.920
that correctly. Yeah, so that
is that. Remind me if that's up

395
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.880
anywhere, if folks can that's a
great question. I don't know that.

396
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:37.960
Maybe I'll hunt for that if I
can find it, y'all, I'm going

397
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:42.240
to put in the show. But
the question about polyamory and breakups made me

398
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:49.319
think of that immediately because it is
it's a short film that specifically deals with

399
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.920
that very specific issue of someone and
I believe this character is also the hinge

400
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:58.319
in that relationship, or it's implied, yes, that she has this character.

401
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:02.279
Yeah, this character played by Nicole
who gets broken up with by one

402
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:07.680
partner and then goes home to the
other partner and is grieving though, And

403
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:12.440
so that partner has to comfort Nicole, it doesn't have to, but does

404
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:15.679
comfort Nicole, but also is in
partnership with her, so is as she's

405
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.960
grieving the loss of things. It's
just like a really interesting it just speaks

406
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.760
exactly to this question and it dramatizes
it and it's sort of a really lovely

407
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:27.000
way. So it made me think
of that, I'll see. Yeah,

408
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:34.000
it's called other Loving and the Short
and it really is a beautiful exploration of

409
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:37.960
that. Yeah. So I mean
a poly breakup, man, I mean

410
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:44.320
that's like being like, how does
monogamous break up work? Like it is

411
00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:49.880
so dependent and my experience poor,
Yeah, it's it's never fun. I

412
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.039
think it's like, I think that's
a great I think it's like a really

413
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:59.159
good umbrella way of thinking about it. It's not fun, But there are

414
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:04.000
as many experiences of that under the
sun as there are of monogamous breakups.

415
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:07.519
Right, depending on who breaks up
with who, what is the dynamic between

416
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:14.239
the multiple people involved? You know, so is one person going to be

417
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:17.079
primarily affected by that or multiple people
going to be primarily affected by that?

418
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.719
You know? Is there a kid
again? You know, all all that

419
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:37.840
stuff. So in my experience,
I'll just say in my experience that because

420
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:49.719
because polyamory, like doing it ethically, requires so much communication along the way

421
00:35:49.760 --> 00:36:01.400
and such a different, such a
different way of approaching romantic and sexual love,

422
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:09.920
right, that carries over into a
breakup that's sort of going okay,

423
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.360
So like there are some rules of
breakups that are going to apply here,

424
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:22.079
universal feelings, things of our communication
is going to have to be less probably

425
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.360
are you know, like things are
going to have to shift and it's going

426
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:35.760
to be painful for a while.
But also I think there's tends to be

427
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:44.559
more checking in there, tends to
be more How are we feeling about things

428
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:49.840
now? Where do we feel that
we're at? Like? Are we doing

429
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:57.480
this consciously and with generosity for one
another? How am I dealing with you

430
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:02.440
potentially seeing someone else now? You
know, from what I have learned about

431
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:07.840
jealousy in my experience of our polyamorous
relationship when we were together, how am

432
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.800
I dealing with that now that we're
not and I'm feeling these things? You

433
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:17.320
know? It just I would say, brings another level of awareness and consciousness

434
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:23.559
to that process. And I will
say that I go more into this in

435
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:30.639
my personal experience with it on an
upcoming episode of the polypodcast that Lauren was

436
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:36.719
referring to that should come out in
January or February. So so yeah,

437
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:38.320
be on the lookout. I will. I will definitely post about that.

438
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:47.719
Folks. Can you believe that this
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439
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:54.039
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440
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441
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fresh start in the new year.
So here's another nicole specific question. Uh.

471
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:25.239
This is from a former guest from
Jupiter, one of one of my

472
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:30.039
former guests, Jupiter. The question
is what are some of the challenges as

473
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:34.760
a queer parent? Obviously this is
a broad question, so just anything you

474
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:39.760
want to highlight or speak to you
are you are looking very thoughtful? Oh

475
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:45.159
man? Okay, Well, there
are so many things that I could go

476
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:47.480
into, and I have to I
do have to say that for me,

477
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:58.400
being a queer parent and being a
polyamorous parent are often quite intertwined. So

478
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:06.880
especially because it's like I have the
level of okay, I have a hetero

479
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:15.360
facing marriage and I know I'm bisexual, right, So like ei, there

480
00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:20.920
are plenty of people in this position
who I know and who over the years,

481
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:23.480
God bless you all have reached out
to me and DMed me and been

482
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:27.800
like, oh my god, I
know how this feels to be a bisexual

483
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.719
and feel the erasure and all of
that, right, So like yeah,

484
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:37.159
and that just like continues and is
amplified when there is a child involved too,

485
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:40.719
And now you're not only in a
hetero facing marriage or in a heado

486
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:47.840
facing family. So there's that,
and then there is the added layer of

487
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:55.039
being like, but no, no, I'm also a practicing queer, you

488
00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:01.920
know, like I'm I'm totally and
that person is a co parent to my

489
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:07.880
child. So there is there is. It's an onion. It's an onion.

490
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:14.519
I'm here, it's a gay onion. So yeah, I mean,

491
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:22.840
I'll just give this this anecdote,
which Lauren knows about. So when several

492
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:25.800
months back, this was in the
spring, I think it was a spring,

493
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:36.199
I was looking for preschools for Laife, and without going into this too

494
00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:43.159
much but just giving you the bare
bones, I checked out a uh like

495
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:51.880
Lutheran church preschool that was recommended because
leife's best friend, like little best friend

496
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:54.159
from daycare was going there, and
so I went to check this out.

497
00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:59.559
And you know, first of all, I went to a church preschool.

498
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:04.199
And the way the church preschools work, as I'm sure most people don't know

499
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:07.320
this, right, So a lot
of church preschools are separate from the church,

500
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:12.920
so they they're under the umbrella of
the church, but it's almost like

501
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:17.159
they're renting the space from the church, right, And yeah, so it's

502
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:22.559
not religious education, right, Well, yeah, a lot of church That

503
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:24.360
was how my church preschool was.
That's how a lot of church preschools are.

504
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:30.519
And then sometimes there are other ones
that are religious education influenced, right,

505
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:36.599
So that you're going to be like, it's not your substitute or whatever,

506
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:43.239
No, it's not that said,
of course, you know you're going

507
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.159
in paying tuition, You are going
to be paying into the church. So

508
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:51.960
you know, you have to be
confident even if it's not totally, even

509
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:54.880
if it's most and not if it's
not religious education, you have to be

510
00:44:54.880 --> 00:45:00.480
okay giving your money to that to
that church, right. And the benefit

511
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:06.079
from a financial standpoint is that because
of the nonprofit status of churches, church

512
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:09.360
preschools are less money than private preschools. Oh, I did not know that.

513
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:14.800
Something else also, I didn't know
until I was in this process,

514
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:16.000
right, even having gone to a
church preschool, I didn't know that.

515
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:22.320
So yeah, so things to consider
anyway, And so I go. This

516
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:28.679
is the first preschool that I've toured. And I go to this preschool and

517
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:34.159
I'm I'm going kind of from classroom
classroom. It's really adorable. Everything's Safari

518
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.800
themed, you know, like it's
really cute. But I'm peeping in the

519
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:42.880
classrooms and I do see on like
the welcome board in every class there's like

520
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:47.840
a Jesus Loves you or like something
like that. Pretty innocuous, but you

521
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:55.360
know, and even as somebody raised
Christian who now identifies as Unitarian, but

522
00:45:55.599 --> 00:46:00.880
like raised Christian, I still I
get my hack pulls up a little bit

523
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:10.800
when when the jay man is is
in bat because the exactly because because unfortunately

524
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:17.000
Jesus teachings have been you know,
co opted for the worst by uh some

525
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:22.960
bad actors in this country specifically,
So anyway, so I just always I'm

526
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:28.239
wary, right, And so as
we're continuing on this tour and going through

527
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:34.079
the different parts of the preschool and
then finally into the like chapel of the

528
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:37.199
church where we met the pastor of
the church. I am telling you,

529
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:45.559
it was like my alarm bells were
just going off, like like real like

530
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.599
heart racing kind of like I was
like, even though everything they were saying

531
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:54.800
was right, everything looked great,
the program was great, something instinctually was

532
00:46:54.840 --> 00:47:04.440
off. Yeah. And we got
into the chapel and I and the pastor

533
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:08.079
is standing there and there I was
touring with a straight couple, And wasn't

534
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:14.199
it just you? That day literally
just happened to be It was only me

535
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.559
because Gustav and Mendola were both working, so I was the only one going

536
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:23.159
right. And so we're we finished
this tour, We're in the chapel,

537
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:27.159
we're standing there with the pastor,
and then this woman who's the director of

538
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:30.840
the preschool, who was also a
church member at this church, at ther

539
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:35.239
In Church, and they're like,
you know, do you guys have any

540
00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:37.880
questions? And I go, oh, here we go. I gotta ask.

541
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:42.119
I got to ask. And then
I was like, so ours is

542
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:46.320
and LGBTQ family. I didn't even
say poly no, that's yeah. You

543
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:51.360
you want to lay the ground were
see how that goes over before you introduced,

544
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:53.840
before I dropped that bomb, yeah, exactly exactly. So I was

545
00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:59.280
like, you know, we're an
LGBTQ family, and I just I just

546
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:04.679
want to make sure that that,
you know, that is something that's that's

547
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.320
accepted here. I think I might
have said accepted or embraced. I'm not

548
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:09.960
sure. I wish, I hope
I had the wear with all the same

549
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:12.679
embrace, but I might have just
said accepted. I don't know. I

550
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:17.280
was very nervous, and yeah,
that's terrifying. Yeah, and the as

551
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:23.039
the clear only only queer person in
that space, by the way, and

552
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:30.519
and the the you know, fifties
something woman director of the preschool said,

553
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:37.159
yes, we've had families like yours
before. It's totally fine, you know,

554
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:38.800
and that that was kind of her, which is like a bit weird

555
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:45.280
but okay, and the class start
but no, I don't die, don't

556
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:49.599
either. Families like yours is a
weird life, yours, And also it's

557
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:53.480
totally fine, both of those worritings, I'm not in lovely no, no,

558
00:48:54.400 --> 00:49:00.280
no. And then and the pastor
who is like a white guy who

559
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:05.840
looks like he may have just you
know, like his voice may have just

560
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.199
dropped last week, like he looks
so young. I was like, yeah,

561
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:12.559
literally, but I think I found
out later. I think he's like

562
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:25.239
thirty, but he he just sort
of very succinctly just went yes, that

563
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:31.280
was it. And so when I
tell you that, at that moment,

564
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:37.079
I like wanted to cry. It
was it was yeah. I was like,

565
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.239
something is not right and I and
so then we ended the tour.

566
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:44.920
I walked back outside the street.
Couple who was walking with me turned to

567
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:47.880
me and very nicely were like,
I'm so glad you asked that question.

568
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.599
That's important to us. Yeah,
you know, thank you for asking.

569
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:53.559
So that was really lovely of them, right, Yeah, And then I

570
00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:58.519
got in my car and proceeded to
burst into tears. Yeah, because I

571
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:00.880
was like, something is not right, Like the words that I'm hearing are

572
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:07.079
not matching that my like alarm bells. And so then, as Lauren knows,

573
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:12.800
I went home and did a ton
of research on not just this church,

574
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.320
but on what's called the Synod that
they're they're part of, so kind

575
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:24.000
of the type of Lutheran it is, and lo and behold they accept heavy

576
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:35.440
air quotes. LGBTQ people because we
are all sinners and and as the possibility

577
00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:38.599
of you know, saving them and
bringing them back to the life. Yeah,

578
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:43.880
okay, And I'm not going to
go into like the the aftermath of

579
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.079
that, Lauren. As Lauren knows, I actually ended up meeting with the

580
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:51.960
pastor I called called a meeting and
we had a very actually really interesting and

581
00:50:52.960 --> 00:51:00.480
important conversation that was theological conversation and
things afterwards. But that's a discussion for

582
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:05.119
a different time. But needless to
say, I did not send life to

583
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:09.480
my preschool, and you know I
was. I mean, I was so

584
00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:17.519
disturbed and I was so I felt
so alienated in that room having to ask

585
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:32.400
that question. I felt angry that
that the straight couple was led to believe

586
00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:39.039
something that wasn't true and they were
able to take it at face value because

587
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:44.719
of course, their spidey sense isn't
going off because it doesn't have to write

588
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:51.719
like that. I think is at
the core of what it is to be

589
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:58.639
a queer parent, right, is
you have there are different considerations that you

590
00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:04.400
have depending on the space that you
are in with your family and where you

591
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:08.960
are sending your child to school and
where your child whose family your child is

592
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:14.000
hanging out with. We are very
fortunate that we live in Los Angeles,

593
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:19.760
so the default setting is that people
are liberal and cool here and perfectly,

594
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:22.559
you know, fine with all of
that. I happened to stumble into a

595
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:27.840
place that was not right, and
that is the I would say, more

596
00:52:27.880 --> 00:52:30.840
of the exception than the rule here, whereas obviously in other parts of the

597
00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:37.480
country it is the rule and not
the exception. So like, I have

598
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:43.840
it relatively easy as a queer parent, and that shit still happens, you

599
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:46.199
know, and those considerations are still
really important. And when I went to

600
00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:52.880
the church preschool that life currently goes
to, which is a different denomination and

601
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:58.199
obviously one that's liberal and does not
have religious education attached to it the way

602
00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:00.440
that the other one did, I
should have said that that other one also

603
00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:05.199
they did chapel twice a week,
like it was different. But yeah,

604
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:13.280
this one's different. This one I
toured with Mandala because really important to me.

605
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:15.280
To A, I was like,
I'm not doing this shit alone anymore,

606
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:19.360
and then B I was like,
I don't want to. I want

607
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:22.719
this to be no beans about it
and see how they treat us. And

608
00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:30.360
they were lovely from top to but
there was absolutely bad an e they I

609
00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:36.280
mean, they hadn't even met Gustav
nor asked about my husband or something like

610
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:38.920
that, you know, like they
fully until the first time they saw Gustav,

611
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:43.239
assumed that Mandala was my wife and
we were moms in that house.

612
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:49.199
Yeah, so this school knows that
y'all are Polly, I assume if.

613
00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:53.360
Yeah, I mean I think some
of the do. They did not know

614
00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:58.719
that that they might be like something's
up, so like they know they know

615
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:02.880
about all three of you. Yes, in terms of life life that's really

616
00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:07.159
cool, you know. Yeah,
and all three of us are like on

617
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:09.599
the form to be able to pick
him up for school, and we all

618
00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:15.519
went to his Christmas concert this morning
together, you know, Like so that's

619
00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:20.320
the kind of thing where like yeah, and that's how we treat That's how

620
00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:23.880
I mostly try to treat it as
I try to not make it a thing.

621
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:30.159
I try to not verbally come out
to the extent that I need to.

622
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:34.360
I'll just drop it in the conversation, Oh my person, I this

623
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:38.280
by that, you know, just
loosely use the pronouns, use partners in

624
00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:43.960
the plural, and let people figure
it out for themselves. But yeah,

625
00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:46.159
but we have you have to be
more careful as a parent? You just

626
00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:51.440
do, you just fucking do so. Anyway, there that's my long,

627
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:54.559
gish story. No, I'm so
glad you got to finally talk about that

628
00:54:54.599 --> 00:54:59.719
on the podcast because it happened so
recently to your last episode. Then we

629
00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:01.840
and talk about it. But like
you said, I knew about it,

630
00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:05.119
and you would always wanted us to
talk about it. So I'm so glad

631
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:07.199
that you finally got to tell that
story because I know that was like really

632
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:13.480
impactful. Anyway, all right,
Okay, we have one last more elaborate

633
00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:16.840
question and then we're going to go
into our rapid fire round. But this

634
00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:21.639
one, yeah, this one,
this again is a is a more general

635
00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:25.599
topic, but we wanted to speak
to it. It's it's asking me us

636
00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:31.119
to talk about the specificity it says
of being lesbian while being a woman of

637
00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:36.320
color, having a disability, and
having autism. So to us, this

638
00:55:36.400 --> 00:55:42.719
falls under the category of just a
discussion about intersectionality and when you hold multiple

639
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:52.440
marginalizations, as is very common for
many many people, many people have multiple

640
00:55:53.199 --> 00:56:00.159
identities that are not of the majority, shall we say, and our negotiating

641
00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:05.639
that, and I will point out
if you didn't hear it very recently,

642
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:07.760
just a couple of weeks ago.
Uh. Andrew mccaskell, who I had

643
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:13.280
on the podcast, we talked a
lot about intersectionality, specifically in terms of

644
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:16.000
being out at the workplace. Uh, and as a as a black gay

645
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:19.880
man. He spoke to that a
lot, because it's like you've already got

646
00:56:19.960 --> 00:56:24.079
one thing that you're you're the minority
in your workspace, and that you're sort

647
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:28.320
of navigating what do you want to
add the other one on? Like what

648
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:30.039
do you Yeah, and so I
think that was a really good episode for

649
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:34.840
us talking about that. But yeah, in terms of this question, I

650
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:38.039
know, Nicole, you wanted to
speak to your experience at cons regarding this.

651
00:56:38.840 --> 00:56:44.599
Yeah, So, I mean it
I'm sure will come as no surprise

652
00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:52.559
to longtime listeners that neither Lauren Uh
nor I are neurodivergent that we know about

653
00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:54.000
now we know of, Yeah,
that we know of, yeah right,

654
00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:58.719
I mean, we got plenty of
other stuff going on, but like hell

655
00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:02.199
yeah, yeah, but we are
not. We do not fall into the

656
00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:07.559
categories of neurodivergent or disabled. So
I don't want to claim although I would,

657
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:10.920
I don't know if I would identify
disabled. But I've spoken before about

658
00:57:10.920 --> 00:57:15.000
having a true chronic pain conditions slash
chronicess, so I think, yeah,

659
00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:19.159
I think I maybe do have shades
of that, but yeah, it all

660
00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:25.039
depends on how you. I am
not personally comfortable identifying as disabled because I

661
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:30.239
have that thing where I'm like,
I don't think it's enough disabling. So

662
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:35.000
that's something I deal with. But
I do also say, and have said

663
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:37.239
on this podcast, I have a
chronic pain condition, I have a chronic

664
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:40.039
illness in yet I don't feel comfortable
using the word disabled because I feel like

665
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:45.480
I get imposter syndrome about the degree
to which it affects my life. So

666
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:49.400
yeah, just a little side tangent
that. No, that's a really important

667
00:57:49.400 --> 00:57:53.079
side tangent because there are inevitably a
lot of people in that category. So

668
00:57:53.519 --> 00:58:00.280
yeah, yeah, I'm glad Visible
disabilities obviously folks that category big time in

669
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:05.639
percent. Yeah so so, but
we but we do not have this particular

670
00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:09.320
cross section of in like this intersectionality, right, so like neither of us

671
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:15.639
are speaking from personal experience on that. However, as soon as I saw

672
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:20.440
this, I was like, oh
my gosh, is this person and good

673
00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:24.280
company? Because like I am telling
you, and now after years of going

674
00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:31.920
to cons, there is such a
vibrant community of people with these exact this

675
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:39.800
exact intersectionality, and so, like
I, I find it like so encouraging

676
00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:50.360
and wonderful that that both the Internet
and conventions like Queer cons have enabled people

677
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:54.880
to find community with each other,
whether on the spectrum or neurodi virgin in

678
00:58:54.920 --> 00:59:00.199
some other way and those who identifies
disabled and and like you, really it's

679
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:06.960
pretty amazing to see it. So
I will say that if you are looking

680
00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:12.559
for a community, oh man,
is it out there. Oh and also

681
00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:15.840
this is such a sidebar, but
it's something that both Lauren and I really

682
00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:20.239
love, so we'll just say it. Laura and I are both big fans

683
00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:24.039
of Love on the Spectrum. Oh
my god, that's just got to come

684
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:31.920
back. The most beautiful, guileless
show that has ever been created. And

685
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:37.079
it's truly it's amazing the number of
times I've had several queer couple, several

686
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:46.480
queer autistics it is. So it's
wonderful. It's like wonderful for that visibility.

687
00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:55.079
And I highly recommend that if you
are interested, if you are on

688
00:59:55.119 --> 01:00:00.280
the spectrum and interested in sort of
seeing people on your TV who who perhaps

689
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:04.599
identify the same way, looked a
lot on the spectrum. It's fantastic.

690
01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:07.840
I so agree. And also and
so I will say, so shout out

691
01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:09.679
to love on the spectrum. Now, what love on the spectrum does not

692
01:00:09.800 --> 01:00:14.679
do quite as well, which is
no secret, is most of those folks

693
01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:19.480
are white. So I will use
this to segue into speaking to the other

694
01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:23.159
part of this question. Being lesbian
and a woman of color, and we

695
01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:32.159
have had many discussions on this podcast
about the we are not the queer community

696
01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:38.599
is not exempt from having racism problems. I would be a broad way of

697
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:45.440
saying it, but I'd say specifically
we have spoken to black guests about that,

698
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:49.559
although I think all queer folks of
color. We've had these conversations on

699
01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:52.119
the podcast, and I will say
there is now a concerted effort. There

700
01:00:52.119 --> 01:00:59.719
are a lot of spaces that specifically
are geared towards queer folks of color that

701
01:00:59.800 --> 01:01:04.360
I prioritize them, or have events
that are specifically for them, and in

702
01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:07.559
fact say, hey, this is
only for queer folks of color or some

703
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:13.039
even more specifically black queer folks.
I would really recommend getting on the high

704
01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:16.880
or on the QTS email list,
which is high qts dot com. You

705
01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:21.599
can sign up for the email list
there, but they frequently have events that

706
01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:27.599
are really prioritizing and as I said, sometimes are exclusively for queer people of

707
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:31.760
color, because we do recognize that
this is an ongoing issue in the queer

708
01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:37.239
community as it is and I think
all communities. So yeah, I'll speak

709
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:39.280
to that, and then last one, at least I want to shout out

710
01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:45.199
Zigzag Pride, which is the LA
LGBT centers. It's one of our our

711
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:51.400
community groups, our social groups,
and it is for all queer folks who

712
01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:55.199
identify as disabled in some way,
shape or form. So again that can

713
01:01:55.239 --> 01:02:01.480
mean any any form of neurodiversity or
physical disabilit literally and like I would be

714
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:05.519
more than welcome there, even though
I, as I just spoke about,

715
01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:08.000
have a little trouble using the word
disabled, but you know, having a

716
01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:13.000
chronic condition, I would fit into
Zigzag Pride. So the definition is very

717
01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:15.920
broad and you don't have to fill
No one is vetting you on the degree

718
01:02:16.039 --> 01:02:21.239
to which is just if you feel
you belong at Zigzag Pride as someone who

719
01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:24.360
is queer and dealing with disability in
some capacity. You are welcome there.

720
01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:29.400
This is a group that traditionally has
only met once a month, but we

721
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:34.199
have now got enough facilitators that it's
going to it's going to be meeting twice

722
01:02:34.199 --> 01:02:37.559
a month in twenty twenty four,
which is huge. We've been moving towards

723
01:02:37.559 --> 01:02:39.519
that for a long time. So
it's going to be the second and fourth

724
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:44.280
Thursday of every month. It does
meet on Zoom, so wherever you are

725
01:02:44.320 --> 01:02:46.880
in the world, you can join
in if you're interested. And I'm going

726
01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:51.679
to put all of this info in
the show notes. But a question like

727
01:02:51.719 --> 01:02:58.159
this makes me so glad that we
do have that group for folks who who

728
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:05.000
want to meet others in the community
who are like them. Ramp yay,

729
01:03:05.639 --> 01:03:08.159
Okay, Oh my gosh, are
we okay? We're moving into our rapid

730
01:03:08.199 --> 01:03:12.800
fire questions, And I will say
this is rapid fire for us. So

731
01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:15.679
it might not be that rapid because
we are at the house, but we're

732
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:21.159
pretty long winded, but we are
we are who we are people and you

733
01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:24.440
have them pulled up to do we
want to alternate asking the questions I've been

734
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:28.000
asking all of them. Do you
want to kick it off by reading off

735
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:37.840
of raety Okay, what parts of
gay culture do you think are stereotypically true?

736
01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:45.440
I love this one. I feel
like there are a lot the queer

737
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:51.599
female ones are abundant. The oh
my god, the hiking, the birken

738
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:58.599
stocks, the the folk music loving, the handy around the house. I

739
01:03:58.639 --> 01:04:00.599
don't fall into any of these.
I'm useless lasbian, but I feel like

740
01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:05.599
a lot of those, a lot
of those are true. And bisexual people

741
01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:09.960
sit weird in chairs. That's a
big one too that I think I'm also

742
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:14.039
sitting weird in a chair right now. So you know the tracks. See,

743
01:04:14.119 --> 01:04:17.000
do you have any favorites that you
think are definitely true. I'm going

744
01:04:17.079 --> 01:04:24.880
to say something that is controversial.
Hey, Nicole's back, So this is

745
01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:38.320
controversial, but like, bear with
me. I I think lesbians tend to

746
01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:45.079
nest, and don't think gay men
tend to be promiscuous. And here is

747
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:53.119
why I need changed or things,
because straight women and straight men are that

748
01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:58.320
way and they don't get the permission
to do so because they're trying to get

749
01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:03.679
with each other and it's opposite forces. Okay, so I look at like

750
01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:09.880
gay male culture and it is much
Gay male culture tends to be much more

751
01:05:09.960 --> 01:05:15.280
sexually open. Right, they're much
more sex positive. Right. This is

752
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:20.280
not to say that every individual is
promiscuous or you know whatever, but a

753
01:05:23.159 --> 01:05:28.119
culture, there is truth to the
generalization. Yeah, certainly grinder, like

754
01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:31.719
grinder is a grinder. Is like
the fact that we have eight billion gay

755
01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:36.800
bars and we can't keep a lesbian
bar open to save our god there just

756
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:42.559
because men are out there cruising more
like that's just these are just these are

757
01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:45.320
as soon as women couple up,
they don't go out to the bar anymore

758
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:48.360
because board game night, because it's
gamely and and it's time to cuddle,

759
01:05:48.519 --> 01:05:53.719
you know, like this is this
is and again this is not because they're

760
01:05:53.840 --> 01:06:01.480
gay. It's because it's it's it's
because, in my opinion, streatment would

761
01:06:01.519 --> 01:06:06.039
be doing that if they could,
you know, like it is a hundred

762
01:06:06.199 --> 01:06:15.599
percent. If streatmen were like getting
the kind of green lights from their desired

763
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:21.800
their desired sexual partners that gay men
are getting, they would be on it

764
01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:29.119
in half a second. So like
it has nothing to do in my opinion

765
01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:33.000
with the gay the gay factor.
Men are from Mars, women are from

766
01:06:33.079 --> 01:06:36.599
Venus, is what I'm hearing from
you. Men are from Mars and women

767
01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:41.320
are from Venus. Yes, I'm
very traditional in my beliefs. So that

768
01:06:41.440 --> 01:06:45.039
is that is my uh my big
one. That sounds controversial at first,

769
01:06:45.039 --> 01:06:49.639
but is actually really not. As
I said, I'm a pragmatise and I

770
01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:58.840
appreciate you. I appreciate you taking
the risk that Nicole, what would be

771
01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:05.159
advice you would give to your younger
queer self, A little little baby gay

772
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:11.880
Nicole, little baby by Nicole,
don't worry about being the good bisexual.

773
01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:16.960
Fuck oh I love that. Just
don't. God damn it. Like other

774
01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:27.000
people's assumptions and slights about bisexuality have
nothing to do with you. And if

775
01:07:27.159 --> 01:07:33.239
you try to be some sort of
model bisexual in order to in reaction to

776
01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:38.519
like that, in order to mythbust, all you're going to do is like

777
01:07:39.079 --> 01:07:45.800
deny yourself exploration of your own truth, like whatever that truth is. And

778
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:48.840
that's true of anything, right.
You try to be something for to prove

779
01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:53.880
to somebody else, sort of society
at large, that you know you're you're

780
01:07:53.960 --> 01:08:00.320
good, you're good, that's only
going to lead to repression. And so

781
01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:06.000
uh yeah, that's what I would
say is you are nobody's model bisexual.

782
01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:12.480
Uh, you are yourself and just
fucking live your life and let everybody make

783
01:08:12.519 --> 01:08:18.880
their assumptions and figure out their own
miserable lives. It's okay. I think

784
01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:24.279
I would tell little baby Lauren,
Well, I think on a practical level,

785
01:08:24.279 --> 01:08:27.720
i'd say, you are You're not
bisexual, you are in that gay

786
01:08:27.800 --> 01:08:32.760
because I do think that after my
first queer breakup, I dated and had

787
01:08:32.800 --> 01:08:36.840
experiences with some boys that it would
have been better for both of us to

788
01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:40.439
have avoided. So I think I
would have been like, don't, don't,

789
01:08:40.479 --> 01:08:45.159
don't waste your time or their time
on that. And then I think

790
01:08:45.319 --> 01:08:48.039
generally just just I mean, this
is like the boring, typical one.

791
01:08:48.079 --> 01:08:50.880
But like I do remember I've spoken
about this on the pod before. I'm

792
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:55.800
not very religious, but I did
used to pray to not be attracted to

793
01:08:55.880 --> 01:08:59.439
girls, and that's like such a
shitty thing to think back on that I

794
01:08:59.479 --> 01:09:02.079
did that. So I think i'd
be like, don't don't bother God,

795
01:09:02.119 --> 01:09:05.479
what that one. You're gonna love
that in a couple of years. God's

796
01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:10.239
like, I'm not want to change
it. Yeah, So I think i'd

797
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:14.119
say, stop stop praying to God
to make you not attracted to women.

798
01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:17.720
It's a losing battle, and pretty
soon you're not only gonna mind not mind

799
01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:23.800
it, but you're gonna be very
enthusiastic about it. Yeah, you're gonna

800
01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:26.359
you're gonna realize that it was it
was a gift all along. Yeah,

801
01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:31.199
exactly, exactly. Oh good,
okay. So then the next warm we're

802
01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:41.079
true Oh okay, hmm, what
does true authenticity mean to you? Oh?

803
01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:45.239
Oh my god, to use them, to use the Mirriam Webster Word

804
01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:49.439
of the Year. Oh my god, do you have a a an answer

805
01:09:49.479 --> 01:09:51.600
loaded up on this one? I
feel like I need to think for a

806
01:09:51.640 --> 01:10:00.399
moment. It's really funny. This
literally came up the other day. This

807
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:14.199
is an incredibly expansive question. So
authenticity, I think means being in intrinsically

808
01:10:17.239 --> 01:10:24.960
of something not put on in any
way. Yes, okay, yeah,

809
01:10:25.359 --> 01:10:29.880
mine is going to be very similar
to that. Yeah, intrinsically of somebody,

810
01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:39.119
so intrinsically of a person. When
we talk about authentic self, I

811
01:10:39.159 --> 01:10:47.000
think about there's no curation of that, yes, oh my god, yeah,

812
01:10:47.039 --> 01:10:49.800
which is why we get into like, you know, the curate,

813
01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:55.119
the curation of the idea of authenticity
or the look of authenticity on like yeah,

814
01:10:55.479 --> 01:10:59.960
like that, I think it's impossible
to talk about authenticity nowadays without acknowledging

815
01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:05.119
the existence of social media, because
I think that's changed the fundamental concept and

816
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:10.520
perception of authenticity, you know what
I mean. Yeah, it's it's yeah,

817
01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:14.239
it's it's. It has, but
it certainly hasn't changed like the actual

818
01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:20.119
Yeah exactly, exactly. Yeah,
I think, like, yeah, being

819
01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:29.199
intrinsically and inherently of something, not
a curated product of it, right,

820
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:32.159
yeah, and then okay, and
so I'll just tack on because I it

821
01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:39.359
immediately made me think of in authenticity, but in terms of social media.

822
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:44.600
But I think authenticity. I know
it's like wrong or like not ideal to

823
01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:48.199
describe something in terms of what it's
not, but whatever, I think,

824
01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:59.640
not projecting something that is the desired
uh. I think authenticity is the opposite

825
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:04.479
of desiring an outcome from people perceiving
you. I don't know how to put

826
01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:12.840
that into a non negative but yeah, it's just sort of presenting something yourself

827
01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:17.000
or whatever it is, as it
is, as it exists, without the

828
01:12:17.159 --> 01:12:25.039
expectation or desire of it being perceived
in a specific way, which is pretty

829
01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:29.479
much what you were saying in terms
of curation and all. Yeah, yeah,

830
01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:32.760
yeah, it's tricky. It's a
tricky concept, is very tricky.

831
01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:39.840
Yeah, okay, here's one that's
not tricky. Do you ever watch TV

832
01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:43.760
shows just because there's queer ladies in
it? Because I'm guilty of that.

833
01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:48.600
Oh when I read that, I
was like, oh, Lauren, Yeah,

834
01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:53.359
who doesn't I mean that was of
course, of course, of course,

835
01:12:54.399 --> 01:12:57.119
yeah, it's like all I watch. Now. We actually a Lindsay's

836
01:12:57.239 --> 01:13:00.000
episode from last week. There's an
outtake as we cut a big chunk where

837
01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:02.079
she had asked me if I saw
a show, and I was like,

838
01:13:02.159 --> 01:13:05.680
I only watch shows that have queer
people in them now, Like that's just

839
01:13:05.720 --> 01:13:10.600
where I'm at in life. And
we had a whole discussion about that.

840
01:13:10.720 --> 01:13:15.319
I was like, I went for
so long without having hot queer people to

841
01:13:15.359 --> 01:13:18.000
watch on TV. Now that there's
an embarrassment of riches, Like, sorry,

842
01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:21.119
if you want to make the cut
putt hot queer ladies in your show,

843
01:13:21.199 --> 01:13:25.079
I don't know what to tell you. Oh yes, oh my god,

844
01:13:25.079 --> 01:13:29.359
that's lurious. Yeah. Lauren definitely
consumes more queer media than I do.

845
01:13:29.439 --> 01:13:33.640
But that said, like, I'm
very critical of shows that don't include

846
01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:36.000
queer people. I'm always like,
well, the fuck what's going on?

847
01:13:36.119 --> 01:13:45.600
Like, I'm all comment and how
streted is you know? I I there

848
01:13:45.640 --> 01:13:48.000
are certain things where I'm like,
oh, I'm going to watch that because

849
01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:51.279
I know it's queer. So yeah, I yes, yes, the answer

850
01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:55.479
is yes. That's a yes.
Okay, do you want to do We've

851
01:13:55.520 --> 01:14:02.560
got a couple left. Okay,
I will Oh, Okay. Who is

852
01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:10.000
your celebrity crush? Also, that's
part A Part B. Who is your

853
01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:15.439
celebrity or real life role model?
Oh goodness, okay, this is I

854
01:14:15.439 --> 01:14:19.000
play this one pretty close to the
chest. But my celebrity crush is,

855
01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:25.000
in fact, Rachel Vice. I
don't know about celebrity or real life role

856
01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:29.479
model. I do feel more like
sort of my friends and the people in

857
01:14:29.520 --> 01:14:34.039
my life tend to be more my
my role models. Not to be cheesy,

858
01:14:34.079 --> 01:14:38.359
but it is true. But if
I had to pick a celebrity one,

859
01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:41.199
I honestly I was thinking about this. I think Fiona Apple is a

860
01:14:41.239 --> 01:14:45.640
big one for me, both creatively
and in terms of her She's a great

861
01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:47.920
one for authenticity, oh my god, and has been doing it since like

862
01:14:48.039 --> 01:14:55.359
the nineties, Like just in terms
of feminism, social justice, just her

863
01:14:55.800 --> 01:15:00.039
complete lack of presence on social media
I really respect. So yeah, I

864
01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:06.760
think Fiona Apple might be up there
for me. Yeah, yes, that

865
01:15:06.920 --> 01:15:13.760
is a great one. Well,
I have a lot of celebrity crushes.

866
01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:19.279
I guess same, but I just
had my big one. I'll give the

867
01:15:19.319 --> 01:15:24.359
one that I was just talking to
Mandala about this morning. We were literally

868
01:15:24.399 --> 01:15:29.079
just like looking at her recent Instagram
posts being like, oh god, Eva

869
01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:35.279
Green and oh yes I know her
Eva Green fall. Eva Green falls into

870
01:15:35.319 --> 01:15:40.840
the category for me, As I
said to Mandala, of like, I

871
01:15:41.600 --> 01:15:48.800
genuinely don't know if I want to
be with you I'm looking or I just

872
01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:53.640
want to be with you. I
want to be with you. I want

873
01:15:53.640 --> 01:16:01.159
to be you or both somehow in
some weird universe. Yeah, and that

874
01:16:01.319 --> 01:16:05.960
is my I. So in other
words, like I might only have a

875
01:16:05.960 --> 01:16:12.399
girl crush on Eva Green, you
know, yeah, I'm looking at photos

876
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:15.800
a little more fem than you or
a little less androgynous than you typically go

877
01:16:15.920 --> 01:16:19.760
for. Yeah. Yeah, so
she's like a yeah, a little bit,

878
01:16:19.920 --> 01:16:27.439
a little bit. Yeah, she
is definitely like I. I I

879
01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:30.760
just I have so Okay, so
maybe we'll put her in the realm of

880
01:16:30.800 --> 01:16:33.119
girl crush because I don't really know
if it's I want to be or want

881
01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:39.079
to be with you it it's kind
of probably both, but I would say,

882
01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:45.760
like straight up, just like man, I had a crush on May

883
01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:49.079
Martin, because like, yeah,
you did a big, big crush on

884
01:16:49.119 --> 01:16:54.079
May Martin, and like talent crush
too, like I really really more than

885
01:16:54.239 --> 01:16:58.439
Actually I wasn't actually attracted to them
at first. I really wasn't. I

886
01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:05.239
wasn't that like grew with how talented
I think they are from watching their show,

887
01:17:05.319 --> 01:17:15.359
but that has since cooled off.
And let's see role model real life

888
01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:26.079
role models. Oh me, we
can talk acting, but like that's kind

889
01:17:26.079 --> 01:17:30.079
of boring. I mean, if
you want to know, like all I

890
01:17:30.119 --> 01:17:32.159
want to do is be Kate Blanchett, fine, like that's it, like

891
01:17:32.159 --> 01:17:38.319
like Kate Blanchette. Like if somebody
was like you, your your work is

892
01:17:38.319 --> 01:17:40.640
like Kate Blanchett's, I'd be like, cool, I'm done here, I'm

893
01:17:40.640 --> 01:17:45.279
done, thank you. I can
exit now. Yeah. So that's like

894
01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:47.560
that's if we want to talk about
that. But like I think in life

895
01:17:47.680 --> 01:17:59.840
role model, which I feel like
is more this this question. It's funny

896
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:02.920
like Mark came to mind for me
in a really big way. I love.

897
01:18:03.119 --> 01:18:10.159
Yeah, he's definitely one of them. Yeah, with Mark Montgomery.

898
01:18:10.279 --> 01:18:15.520
Reverend Mark Montgomery like really came to
mind. He is he is so smart

899
01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:23.880
and so funny. He is.
His spirituality and the way that he thinks

900
01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:30.560
about all of that and his dedication
to being a leader in the way that

901
01:18:30.640 --> 01:18:41.560
he is is just so inspiring to
me. So that's yeah. Yeah.

902
01:18:42.399 --> 01:18:48.640
Also Elizabeth Warren. Also Elizabeth Warren. Okay, I like this one a

903
01:18:48.680 --> 01:18:53.800
lot. We're almost done, Nicole, do you have a gay bucket list

904
01:18:53.960 --> 01:19:10.880
of gay things to do? Nicole's
I dun't know. Moll uh oh,

905
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:19.840
I'm gonna say something really vulnerable.
I don't know about this, but it

906
01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:42.760
is something that really I've realized as
of late that I have a I don't

907
01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:45.039
know if it's like a void that
feels like it needs to be filled,

908
01:19:45.239 --> 01:19:50.760
or if it's just it's like a
longing that I don't know if if I'll

909
01:19:50.800 --> 01:20:00.920
ever feel or it will just kind
of exist. But I want a wife.

910
01:20:04.800 --> 01:20:15.680
Wow. You know, Okay,
that is an exclusive. Yeah,

911
01:20:15.680 --> 01:20:23.560
it's something I've been really like.
Is that a recent realization? Yeah,

912
01:20:23.560 --> 01:20:28.279
I mean it's like that's the thing
is It's hard because there's so much that

913
01:20:29.039 --> 01:20:32.600
given my curger, given the fact
that I also have the husband and laws

914
01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:36.520
and this kind of I think maybe
in all countries, but yeah, yeah,

915
01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:43.279
but I mean but you're not I
mean spiritual spirit you know, like,

916
01:20:43.720 --> 01:20:48.479
so you know that would be nice
if you know the legal system wasn't

917
01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:53.920
so fucking monogamous anyway, all right, that's another story story. But you

918
01:20:54.000 --> 01:20:58.439
know the reason I say I don't
know if this lover come to fruition is

919
01:20:58.520 --> 01:21:04.039
that I also, like, I
love my life with my husband too,

920
01:21:04.279 --> 01:21:10.920
and I love what we get to
be when we are just the two of

921
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:17.119
us as well. And I know
from personal experience just how hard it is

922
01:21:17.319 --> 01:21:23.880
to be the hinge and being a
hinge spouse would be I would imagine even

923
01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:32.640
harder. But so there's a lot
to take into consideration in terms of whether

924
01:21:32.760 --> 01:21:35.279
that's on a bucket list in a
way where I'm like, it's gonna happen

925
01:21:35.319 --> 01:21:38.760
and I'm gonna make it happen,
or is it really what I want in

926
01:21:38.840 --> 01:21:44.000
this in disideration of my life,
right, But in terms of like the

927
01:21:44.359 --> 01:21:48.159
long the longing is very much there, if that makes sense. Wow,

928
01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:58.239
Oh I love that. So Okay, mine is less vulnerable, but no

929
01:21:58.520 --> 01:22:02.239
less of a very real longang.
I it's funny you just brought up Kate

930
01:22:02.359 --> 01:22:14.359
Blanchat. I want to age into
being a Holland Taylor slash Carol type lesbian.

931
01:22:15.560 --> 01:22:21.560
I have a younger life partner.
I just I feel like I'm on

932
01:22:21.760 --> 01:22:27.800
the precipice of hitting the age where
like I'm gonna get there. That is

933
01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:34.680
just my vibe. I gravitate towards
younger women. I just I feel like

934
01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:41.000
I could, within I don't know, like a decade or whatever, like

935
01:22:41.319 --> 01:22:44.840
age into that. And I just
think that we'd both be really happy if

936
01:22:44.880 --> 01:22:54.239
I find a girl who also wants
that. Agree with you. That's you.

937
01:22:54.560 --> 01:23:02.960
It's my I love how you and
I are bucket list. It wasn't

938
01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:08.720
like go on a gay cruise.
It was like, oh, it was

939
01:23:08.800 --> 01:23:14.520
like, have somebody agree to the
kind of life that I want. Yeah,

940
01:23:14.840 --> 01:23:18.000
well, I mean it's it's a
bucket. Last you're allowed to go

941
01:23:18.159 --> 01:23:23.720
to the depths of the bucket.
Okay, before we wrap up, I

942
01:23:23.840 --> 01:23:30.199
have one more surprise question. That's
just shit. I showed her all the

943
01:23:30.279 --> 01:23:35.640
questions except this one. It is
the most important question. It is quote,

944
01:23:36.800 --> 01:23:42.840
is Nicole growing her hair out?
Oh my god? The people want

945
01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:45.720
to know it is getting long.
There has been no effort to rein it

946
01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:51.319
in what is the next iteration of
Nichole's hair. Oh, thank you,

947
01:23:51.399 --> 01:23:58.239
thank you so much for this question. The answer is, yes, I'm

948
01:23:58.279 --> 01:24:00.520
growing my hair out. I have
been growing my hair out now now now

949
01:24:00.840 --> 01:24:05.199
I need to put a big aspects
on that because because you've had it.

950
01:24:08.039 --> 01:24:15.279
Yeah. Well, first of all, the asterisk is really because I I

951
01:24:15.399 --> 01:24:23.720
am in front of a camera and
uh am required with certain characters to look

952
01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:30.920
certain ways, and so sure there
is always the possibility that I will have

953
01:24:30.079 --> 01:24:35.159
to cut it again because of a
role and the types of roles that I

954
01:24:35.279 --> 01:24:45.039
go in for no surprise, often
short hair is benefit, right, So

955
01:24:45.840 --> 01:24:47.079
so I want to just put that
caveat out there. If you see me

956
01:24:47.119 --> 01:24:49.800
with short hair again, you will
know it was for a role. Is

957
01:24:49.800 --> 01:24:55.359
what I'm going to tell you right
now. You booked it. It means

958
01:24:55.359 --> 01:24:59.920
I booked it. Okay, it
means it means I booked it. Okay.

959
01:25:00.199 --> 01:25:02.880
Wow, this is I didn't know
what the answer to this question is

960
01:25:02.920 --> 01:25:06.560
going to be. Thank you so
much to the listener who wrote in this

961
01:25:06.680 --> 01:25:11.319
question, because this is we like
TMZ did right at the very end here

962
01:25:11.359 --> 01:25:17.359
I feel like that's a breaking that's
breaking news. Okay, y'all. First

963
01:25:17.399 --> 01:25:20.920
of all, they call it this
has been such a blast, it's so

964
01:25:21.159 --> 01:25:28.479
hard to have you back. Holy
crow. What an end of the year?

965
01:25:29.800 --> 01:25:30.720
What an end of the year?
Oh yeah, okay, So the

966
01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:36.319
podcast, so that listeners know the
pod will be taking off the next two

967
01:25:36.399 --> 01:25:40.720
weeks. I know that Nicole and
I traditionally only take off one week,

968
01:25:40.840 --> 01:25:45.239
but Lauren needs a little bit of
a break from doing it. I'll buy

969
01:25:45.279 --> 01:25:47.479
her longestome because it turns out that
is a lot of work. So two

970
01:25:47.560 --> 01:25:51.960
weeks off back January third. But
I'm not going to leave you totally hanging

971
01:25:53.560 --> 01:25:58.840
h Next week I will be releasing
Coming Out Pod. Did a pod swap

972
01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:03.279
with Le's Hangouts, so I'm going
to be releasing one of their episodes on

973
01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:06.079
our feed, so there will be
something in your feed. And then that

974
01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:11.039
weird week and between Christmas and New
Year's that everyone is just like dropped off

975
01:26:11.079 --> 01:26:14.840
the radar. Then nothing all nothing
will be released, but you will,

976
01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:16.960
so you'll get something next week.
It just won't it won't be a Coming

977
01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:23.880
Out Pot episode. And then back
for reels January third. Some very exciting

978
01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:30.359
things for twenty twenty four, including
just to tease it, hit me up

979
01:26:30.399 --> 01:26:32.560
at coming Outpod at gmail dot com
or at coming Out pot if you have

980
01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:38.520
any questions that you would like to
ask a furry And that's all I'm going

981
01:26:38.560 --> 01:26:43.119
to say about that. But I'm
also going to say, Nicole, where

982
01:26:43.199 --> 01:26:47.000
can folks find you if they don't
already know? Oh, you already know.

983
01:26:47.439 --> 01:26:55.399
I mean Instagram exclusively at Nicole Patient. That's where That's where I am.

984
01:26:55.680 --> 01:27:00.920
That's where I be. That's where
I am exclusively for the foreseeable future

985
01:27:00.960 --> 01:27:09.119
because the Internet is burning my brain
and so I need to spend as little

986
01:27:09.199 --> 01:27:13.680
time on it as possible. But
I am on Instagram, so at an

987
01:27:13.760 --> 01:27:19.279
cool paycent, I will be.
I will be announcing all upcoming stuff.

988
01:27:19.399 --> 01:27:26.840
I have two announcements of projects that
I cannot announce until the new year,

989
01:27:27.319 --> 01:27:31.680
so be stay tuned for that.
And then, as always, stay tuned

990
01:27:31.920 --> 01:27:43.279
for pictures of my child, which
I'll be honest have become more popular than

991
01:27:43.399 --> 01:27:47.479
anything I post about me. So
wow, I get it. My child

992
01:27:47.640 --> 01:27:53.880
is also my child pro is also
more popular than anything I post anything.

993
01:27:54.199 --> 01:27:57.199
I thought it would be the opposite. I thought, people, you have

994
01:27:57.640 --> 01:28:02.279
no gorgeous child. Thank you.
Yeah, he's uh, he's a special

995
01:28:02.359 --> 01:28:10.119
little oh ell yeah, just an
adorable little munchkin. And y'all know where

996
01:28:10.159 --> 01:28:13.720
to find me in photos of my
adorable little munchkin child. I am at

997
01:28:13.840 --> 01:28:19.239
Lauren Flans on Twitter and Blue Sky
Lauren Underscore Flans on Instagram. The podcast

998
01:28:19.600 --> 01:28:24.720
is at Coming Out Pod everywhere.
The hashtag is hashtag coming Out Pod and

999
01:28:24.880 --> 01:28:30.439
since Nicole is back but just for
today, the hashtag is also found Ricky

1000
01:28:30.640 --> 01:28:38.439
remember when that happened? And hey
also an amazing, thankful, beautiful end

1001
01:28:38.479 --> 01:28:42.680
of the year. Shout out to
all of the pods patrons, Carmel Caz

1002
01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:47.119
Simone, Cayenne, Michelle, l
Adrie, Tanya Pooh, Tia, Kieran

1003
01:28:47.199 --> 01:28:53.039
Smiley, Aaron Mitchell, Diego,
Hernandez and beyond Clexa dot Com and y'all.

1004
01:28:53.119 --> 01:28:57.199
This is the last episode of the
year. So if if you enjoy

1005
01:28:57.279 --> 01:29:03.359
the pod and you've never clicked those
five stars on Spotify or iTunes to give

1006
01:29:03.479 --> 01:29:08.560
us a five star rating, now
is the time to do it. It's

1007
01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:12.800
it's goodwill towards all or whatever we
say around this time of year. So

1008
01:29:12.920 --> 01:29:16.199
yeah, click those five stars and
if you want to leave a little review

1009
01:29:16.279 --> 01:29:19.920
on iTunes, the little end of
the year, a little holiday present for

1010
01:29:20.039 --> 01:29:26.119
the podcast. Oh love it,
just saying, oh my god, I

1011
01:29:26.199 --> 01:29:29.960
think that's it. I think that's
it for twenty twenty three. What a

1012
01:29:30.079 --> 01:29:33.359
year. Good god, what a
year, Nicole. I'm so so glad

1013
01:29:33.399 --> 01:29:40.119
you came back to out this.
Thank you for asking, Oh my god,

1014
01:29:40.159 --> 01:29:44.880
my god. Thank you for saying
yes, I would have my pillow

1015
01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:48.359
if you'd been like no, I
left the podcast. What don't you understand

1016
01:29:48.600 --> 01:29:53.079
about I left more? Could you? Could you even imagine? No,

1017
01:29:53.359 --> 01:29:57.840
it's not within the realm of possibility. I love y'all. Thank you so

1018
01:29:57.960 --> 01:30:00.880
much for listening to this episode and
freaking doing to support Lauren in this beautiful

1019
01:30:00.920 --> 01:30:09.000
podcast. Have a lovely holiday and
a beautiful holiday season, a happy new

1020
01:30:09.079 --> 01:30:13.760
Year, and I will see you
again on January of the third