1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,960 Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:14,240 audiences. Listener discretion is advised. I'm almost at the end of my career 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,120 and I want to stop helping people one emergency at a time. I want 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,760 to get out there and be a catalyst in changing people's lives. And if 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,239 this helps you, you're welcome to it. And that's this. Don't take 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:01:02,479 this life too seriously, but don't ever take it for granted. This is 7 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,239 season ten, episode two hundred and thirty nine of Sword and Scale, a 8 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,879 show that reveals it the worst monsters are real. We have a great show 9 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:12,640 for you today and we're gonna get right into it. But if you haven't 10 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:18,359 already, consider joining Plus. It's our premium service with over one hundred and 11 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,840 thirty five exclusive episodes you simply will not hear on the regular feed. It's 12 00:01:22,879 --> 00:01:53,680 available right now at Sword and Scale dot com, slash plus live, and 13 00:01:53,920 --> 00:02:01,599 let Live. It's much easier said than done. The premise is extremely simple. 14 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,560 Live your own life and stay the hell out of the way of others 15 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,960 so they can live theirs, presumably the way they want to, as long 16 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:17,199 as they're not hurting anyone. The premise may be simple, but practicing this 17 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:27,159 concept can be altogether different because it requires self regulation, control of ourselves rather 18 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:36,280 than our environment. Ironically, sometimes we can't control ourselves, we lash out, 19 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:45,639 and we project this need onto others closest to us and begin controlling them 20 00:02:45,759 --> 00:03:08,319 instead of letting them live their lives the way they want to have. You 21 00:03:08,319 --> 00:03:12,840 ever woken up in the middle of the night, like round three or four 22 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:15,439 in the morning, and you just can't go back to sleep. Happens to 23 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:21,680 me all the time. Maybe you were just startled during a bad dreamer. 24 00:03:22,319 --> 00:03:30,000 Maybe the zequill or ambient wore off, and now you're wide awake and plagued 25 00:03:30,039 --> 00:03:35,960 with intrusive thoughts that just will not go away, like an endless sloop. 26 00:03:37,159 --> 00:03:44,319 Why does that particular time frame seemed to be so common for people being disturbed 27 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:50,000 from their slumber. Folklore would suggest that the time period between three and four 28 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:57,039 in the morning is the witching hour or the devil's hour. This is the 29 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:02,520 early morning time slot when evil roams of the earth. In Colbert, a 30 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:09,960 rural area just northeast of Spokane, Washington, deputies and firefighters were awakened on 31 00:04:10,039 --> 00:04:15,919 May twenty fifteen when they were summoned to the scene of a fiery house and 32 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:23,759 barn at twenty East Chattaroy Road. The chaos and carnage were quickly attributed to 33 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:30,319 arson, the handiwork of an unknown demon prowling the area. Responders continued pouring 34 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:36,519 in and one noticed something in the grass lying just outside the burning home and 35 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:43,560 red flames. The green grass nestled an object every fire person is familiar with 36 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:50,360 a flash of reflective tape on a firefighter's helmet. It appeared they had already 37 00:04:50,399 --> 00:04:57,079 lost one of their own. This fire was suspicious from the time that firefighters 38 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,720 arrived on scene. When they got here, they found separate structures on fire, 39 00:05:01,079 --> 00:05:05,720 including a barn. Neighbors started noticing that something was going on across the 40 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:12,360 road when they awoke two noises and saw a large volume of smoke. One 41 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,279 neighbor rushed to the scene to offer his help. He said, about a 42 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:21,839 quarter to two, he heard popping noises, looked out, saw the fire 43 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,240 got over there, the barn was in fleeing and the house had start on 44 00:05:28,319 --> 00:05:33,639 fire. Naturally, he was alarmed, so the neighbor began urgently knocking on 45 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,439 the door to wake anyone in the home. He even tried to kick the 46 00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:45,199 door in, but it would be trained personnel who discovered the first body. 47 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,480 This was the body of Lisa Canfield. She was a mother and wife and 48 00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:56,399 lived in the home. Her slim corpse was lying in the back bedroom and 49 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,480 would not be easy to retrieve. Fireman first needed to cut a hole in 50 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:08,680 the bedroom from outside the house before dragging Lisa's mostly intact body through the hole 51 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:15,079 and onto the grass. One of the deputies reported the grim scene. Upon 52 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,560 arrival, I received limited information about a deceased female victim, Lisa Canfield, 53 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,759 found by fire personnel in the burning house. I was told Lisa peared to 54 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,600 have been stabbed several times. Lisa's body was lying in the backyard with a 55 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,240 yellow blanket covering her up. I was also told Lisa's husband, Terrence Terry 56 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:36,319 Canfield, was missing. I went over to examine the body and saw the 57 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:41,160 female victim. She had a piece of cloth stuffed into her mouth. She 58 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,439 had what appeared to be knife wounds to her hands and wrist and bruises to 59 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,120 her chest area. There were punctured wounds on her chest below her neck. 60 00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:54,279 There were also burn marks covering the body. Lisa was found completely nude, 61 00:06:54,680 --> 00:07:00,360 lying on her back. Telltale defensive wounds covered her hands and wrist, and 62 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:05,560 although severe burns damaged her lower legs and feet, Lisa did not seem to 63 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:13,839 have died by fire, but by unnatural and violent causes. As for the 64 00:07:13,879 --> 00:07:19,160 firefighter's helmet lying in the yard, it belonged to Lisa's husband, Terry Canfield, 65 00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:25,639 and together they owned the barn, the home, and the property in 66 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:30,800 general, as well as some horses and several dogs. Terry was still missing, 67 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:38,199 but detectives would soon discover a badly charred body in the barn, along 68 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:44,839 with a third victim. We do know that the fire occurred at Lieutenant Canfield's 69 00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:48,560 residence, and we do know that we're not able to contact Lieutenant Canfield. 70 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:54,439 So I think the community at this point is really holding their breath to see 71 00:07:54,480 --> 00:08:00,600 if a result from the autopsy today determines whether or not any of the three 72 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:05,079 bodies belonged to a Lieutenant Canfield. He had a lot of tenure on the 73 00:08:05,079 --> 00:08:07,959 department, had a lot of experience like the sharer's experience. He was an 74 00:08:07,959 --> 00:08:11,560 instructor. He did a lot of things off duty like that, he was 75 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,879 out in the community doing programs. He was actually even a comedian. Fifty 76 00:08:16,959 --> 00:08:22,399 nine year old Terry was very active in the community and allegedly had no enemies. 77 00:08:22,439 --> 00:08:28,040 Questions arose with regard to his marriage, and Lisa and a female neighbor 78 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:35,240 and friend had some answers. She explained that she and Lisa were best friends 79 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:41,039 of ten years. Just the night before the fire, she was at the 80 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:46,799 home of Lisa and Terry having a few drinks. She not only insisted there 81 00:08:46,799 --> 00:08:50,360 had been no arguments that night between husband and wife, but that Lisa and 82 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:56,159 Terry were madly in love with each other. There was no way anything bad 83 00:08:56,279 --> 00:09:01,120 happened between them. At that point, the neighbor walked away, sobbing and 84 00:09:01,159 --> 00:09:09,159 attempted to regain her composure. The search for Lieutenant Terry Canfield continued. Police 85 00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:13,399 were sharing what little information they had about the victims. He said Terry just 86 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:18,440 recently had major shoulder surgery and he knew Terry wouldn't be at work. I 87 00:09:18,519 --> 00:09:22,600 asked if he or anyone else might know where Terry was, but he answered 88 00:09:22,639 --> 00:09:26,240 no. By this time, the barnet was on fire was mostly burnt to 89 00:09:26,279 --> 00:09:30,639 the ground. The house was still being put out by firefighters. Lieutenant being 90 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,120 said they did an initial sweep of the house and didn't find any other bodies, 91 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,080 but they said that they needed to do another more thorough search. He 92 00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:41,879 also stated it may be possible that Terry may have been in the barn and 93 00:09:41,919 --> 00:09:45,399 it would be a while before they could go through that debris. Later that 94 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:50,559 afternoon, when the flames were doused and the smoke subdued, the remains of 95 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:56,279 two other victims appeared from the ashes, Terry Canfield and his twenty four year 96 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:01,759 old stepson, John, who also lived in the home. District four firefighters 97 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:07,159 were actually the first people noticed this blaze was no accident when they stumbled upon 98 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,600 the first two victims. As crews fought the fire, they wondered why the 99 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,799 residents hadn't been able to escape. Some parts of their home, like this 100 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:22,200 bedroom, never even filled with smoke. Unfortunately, Spokene firefighter Terry Canfield may 101 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,240 have not been able to use one of those guns to defend himself because of 102 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:33,399 the lieutenant's recent shoulder surgery. Terry had just undergone shoulder surgery, making him 103 00:10:33,639 --> 00:10:39,440 an already wounded target for the killer. All three bodies betrayed gunshot wounds, 104 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:45,519 indicating they had not died from smoke in elation and further confirming suspicions that a 105 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:52,600 killer was roaming Spokane. Was this killer a stranger looking for valuables or money 106 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:58,279 or was this someone familiar, some monster with a vendetta. It had been 107 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:05,039 a long time since Spokane was spooked quite like this, and in fact, 108 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,320 the last time something this horrible happened there, Sword and Scale put out an 109 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:15,840 episode about it. Well, you know, the stranger murders are very rare 110 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,320 and Spokane, I think what Joseph Duncan did to the Grony family was the 111 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:24,080 last time we saw a stranger the stranger killing of this magnitude. If this 112 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:30,039 was just a home invasion robbery, that it's likely those weapons that you saw 113 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,480 being taken out of the house would have been stolen, So for at least 114 00:11:33,639 --> 00:11:39,919 for now, it appears that these victims somehow knew their killer. The fires 115 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:46,559 were winding down when someone very unexpected pulled up to the property. While deputies 116 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:52,200 continued to extinguish blazing flames from two fires, cordon off the area as a 117 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,759 probable crime scene, and take pictures of the buildings, carnage and rubble, 118 00:11:58,639 --> 00:12:05,840 a fourth resident of the Canfield home frantically approached wearing a nurse's uniform. This 119 00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:13,440 was Amanda Constable, Lisa's other child and stepdaughter to Terry. She immediately quizzed 120 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,480 officers as to the whereabouts of her parents, begging to find out if they 121 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:24,120 were still alive. Since the bodies of her stepfather and brother were reduced to 122 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:30,879 gray powder and ashy bone fragments, they had not yet been found and identified. 123 00:12:31,799 --> 00:12:37,000 That left the mother of females deceased body had been carried outside the home. 124 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:46,240 Reality set in and Amanda crumpled to the pavement, where she sat on 125 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,200 the wet asphalt soaked with water from the fire trucks. Stunned and in shock, 126 00:12:54,000 --> 00:13:00,480 Amanda was sure she knew what had happened. Her immediate explanation was that 127 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,360 the fire occurred due to a faulty or out of date electrical system that was 128 00:13:05,399 --> 00:13:11,879 reminding them with blown circuit breakers. The maintenance was long overdue. Queasy and 129 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:18,720 unsettled, she couldn't provide herself with the answer to how the barn caught on 130 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:24,960 fire. She didn't yet know Arson was suspected, but when given this information, 131 00:13:26,919 --> 00:14:01,240 she also could not explain who would want her parents dead in the early 132 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,240 morning of May twenty sixth in Spokane, Washington, twenty nine year old Amanda 133 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:11,639 Constable just finished working an extra shift as a nurse. Amanda was tired and 134 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,480 anticipated that she'd climb into bed as soon as she arrived home, where her 135 00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:22,879 parents and brother also lived. Instead, she was greeted with sirens, lights, 136 00:14:22,919 --> 00:14:28,480 and smoldering flames. There was no bed for Amanda because it was burned 137 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:35,759 in the fire along with her family. She wanted to believe faulty electrical wiring 138 00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:41,840 caused the fires, but Amanda had to face facts after being told the bodies 139 00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:46,440 had been shot to death. The Major Crimes detectives did apply for search warrant 140 00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:52,519 and that has been processed and they are now going through the scene here to 141 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,519 collect evidence and with the forensics unit to make sure that we get all the 142 00:14:56,559 --> 00:15:01,120 information to find out what happened here. Today, detectives asked Culbert area residence 143 00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:05,759 to be on the lookout for any possible evidence that may have been discarded around 144 00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:09,440 their property or to recall any cars they may seen in the area the night 145 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,960 of the fire. So now detectives think that their suspects are on the run 146 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,919 and maybe trying to discard some of the evidence that ties them to the crime 147 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:22,200 scene, including burn clothing or some of the things they may have stolen from 148 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,919 this home. Detectives are asking that if you've noticed something suspicious, particularly if 149 00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:31,200 you live in this area. I've seen people dumping things in dumpsters. No 150 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:37,720 one could have predicted that evidence would lead them to a politician. Roy Murray, 151 00:15:37,399 --> 00:15:43,080 thirty year old, tall and skinny, was a clean cut veteran with 152 00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:48,600 a brown haired, buzzcut, and nondescript face, wearing typical man type glasses. 153 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,720 Frankly kind of nerdy looking, not necessarily what you would think of when 154 00:15:54,720 --> 00:16:00,159 conjuring the image of an army vet. We served with valor, earning the 155 00:16:00,159 --> 00:16:07,000 Bronze Star for helping a VIP escape from a complex ambush. He was severely 156 00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:12,600 wounded at the time. After serving in Iraq, Murray was active in politics 157 00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:17,679 for a number of years. In twenty eleven, he was nominated to run 158 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:22,600 for an open state Senate seat. He lost. Murray just happened to be 159 00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:30,960 Amanda Constable's husband. Only three weeks earlier, Amanda moved back into her parents' 160 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:36,360 home due to a change in job location from Lewiston the town her husband still 161 00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:41,000 lived in. Amanda's brother had moved back in after a breakup with his girlfriend. 162 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:48,120 Amanda's brother was staying at the house and the last text message that he 163 00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:53,519 set was at zero zero sixteen, and the shots rang out fourteen minutes after 164 00:16:53,639 --> 00:17:00,600 that. And then there was another neighbor that actually heard the fires set when 165 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:06,839 they went off, as he testified that it sounded like very loud moosh type 166 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,799 of a sound, like a big bonfire being lit, and he heard two 167 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:17,000 of them about thirty seconds apart at two in the morning, and then he 168 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,519 went down the driveway and looked and saw that there was fire over there, 169 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:23,359 and then he ran back up called nine one one, and then he proceeded 170 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,400 out to the property to try to see if anybody was inside the house and 171 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:32,240 tried to get an answer, but it didn't get one, but the fire 172 00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:37,599 department showed up shortly after that. This was Prosecutor Larry Haskell as he recalls 173 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:44,799 details of this triple homicide to put it into perspective. The shots were heard 174 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:49,400 at twelve thirty two am, but the booms of explosive fire were not heard 175 00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:55,680 until two in the morning. The night of the fires Amanda should have been 176 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,599 home, except a worker called in sick, leaving Amanda to cover for the 177 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,200 next shift. She got home at three thirty in the morning. As it 178 00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:08,599 was she had worked in overtime. The fires didn't get set until two o'clock 179 00:18:08,599 --> 00:18:14,960 in the morning. So the state's theory, and I used it in closing 180 00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:19,680 argument, was nobody hangs around a scene in which they've committed three murders and 181 00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:25,799 waits ninety minutes before they set fire to the house and leave unless they're waiting 182 00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:30,359 for somebody. After moving from the wet pavement to an ambulance, Amanda was 183 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:37,599 given a blanket and her thoughts began to collect and make sense. Just then 184 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,279 a weird look came over her. She hated to have this thought, but 185 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:48,519 officers should check in with her husband, the husband she was trying to divorce. 186 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:56,079 He was never physically abusive with her, but her parents didn't like him 187 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:02,720 very much, and that feeling was mutual with Roy. She added that he 188 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,880 had a history of several arrests and tends to get very angry very fast. 189 00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:15,599 In fact, Murray was arrested just after he lost the state Senate race. 190 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,920 He was one of three candidates contending for a vakaged State Senate seat. Murray 191 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,960 had just been arrested the months before in Las Vegas on gun charges and was 192 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:30,599 addressing the ordeal with County commissioners decisionist dependability. Murray didn't get the position, 193 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:36,279 and months later he was arrested again. According to court documents, Murray took 194 00:19:36,319 --> 00:19:38,960 a gun into the walla Walla. Va. Kanzovitch says that, to his 195 00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:44,279 knowledge, every time Murray has had contact with law enforcement, he has been 196 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:51,599 armed. Murray had a veritable obsession with weaponry. When Amanda was interviewed, 197 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,640 she confirmed he owned several guns, included the much feared AAR fifteen style rifle, 198 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:04,279 which he named Puppy. Now, there's nothing wrong with having weapons guns 199 00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:11,000 to protect yourself and your family, even the AR fifteen, But if you 200 00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:15,000 give it a name, then you're kind of a weirdo. Just putting that 201 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:22,720 out there, folks. Amanda said that he would never touch his ammunition and 202 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,960 instead would wipe each round off prior to loading them in the magazine. Now 203 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:33,680 that's very weird, isn't it. Murray told her this helped him shoot and 204 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:41,119 scoot, leaving no DNA. When she met Murray, Amanda thought he was 205 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:47,279 cute and tried to ignore his extreme opinions about the government. Awkward and sometimes 206 00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:52,160 angry, Murray sometimes needed Amanda to act as a buffer between him and her 207 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:57,599 parents. She recalled one night her mother playfully tried to push Murray over. 208 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,559 His response was to put her in a headlock. He was very goal driven 209 00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:08,640 and very hopeful. He just had big dreams. I would try to buffer 210 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:14,519 his jokes or make excuses for them being inappropriate. He had very strong opinions 211 00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:18,640 and felt the government would eventually fall and the preparations were needed to come out 212 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,440 on the right side of that. Things kind of came and went. Guns, 213 00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:26,960 Body Armor Magazine's Vestute put equipment on, tactical gear, goggles, gloves, 214 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,720 gun cleaning supplies. We went camping one time, and it was like 215 00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:36,799 practice for if you ever had to survive. Survive was what Amando was able 216 00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:41,880 to do, and her family was not. On the night they were obliterated, 217 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:47,319 and that was only because she graciously took an extra shift, something she 218 00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:52,799 rarely had to do. She quickly fingered her estranged husband, Roy Murray as 219 00:21:52,839 --> 00:22:00,519 the culprit, and evidence at the scene seemed to corroborate her suspicions those two 220 00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:04,079 deliberately set fires did not destroy. The twenty two caliber slugs found in the 221 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:11,440 victim's bodies were the bullet casings painstakingly recovered in the debris. Detectives on the 222 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:18,200 scene also used trained canines to sniff out any possible sources of arson. Gasoline 223 00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:23,839 was concluded to be the accelerant. Interestingly, Murray had a Facebook page. 224 00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:30,119 Well that's not interesting since just about everybody has one or had one, but 225 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:36,839 Murray posted a few songs there on May twenty fifth, twenty fifteen. One 226 00:22:36,839 --> 00:22:41,440 of them is acute Spanish lullaby. Look it up on YouTube if you want. 227 00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:47,759 It's called Gasolina Leaning. It is actually a song recorded in Spanish, 228 00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:52,279 and if you translate the lyrics, they talk about gasoline and defeating and controlling 229 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:57,799 people and Interestinging, enough, detectives now believe that a container of gasoline was 230 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,440 used to start these fire in the hopes of concealing these crimes. Now, 231 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,200 the media may have been making a huge leap by connecting this song to the 232 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,440 fires. I mean, if you were to look up gasolina in Urban Dictionary, 233 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:17,000 you'd get a whole different take on the song. Anyway, whether posting 234 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:22,119 this song as a deliberate precursor to the fires or not, it was weird, 235 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,920 and the song itself is weird. Not only was gasoline part of the 236 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:33,319 equation, but a minuscule detail about gun lube would later prove to be monumental 237 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:40,960 in this case. The most pertinent and specifically in this case, was the 238 00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:52,759 science surrounding the discovery of the nanoparticulates from a new generation of gun lubricant that 239 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:59,079 was being tested by an inventor at the time that was shared with mister Murray 240 00:23:59,319 --> 00:24:03,000 and also was discovered on some of the shell casings that were recovered at the 241 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:10,480 crime scene. They met at a conference that puts together inventors and potential marketers, 242 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:17,480 and I'm not sure exactly when that happened, but they got together and 243 00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:22,640 got to talking, and the inventor he had indicated to us that he was 244 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:29,119 originally thinking of the lubricant for really large engines, like jet engines or generators 245 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,920 and that sort of thing, and Roy Murray, who was much more interested 246 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:40,319 in firearms, convinced him that it would work well, possibly as a gun 247 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:47,880 lubricant. And so that's why and kind of how that conversation got started on 248 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,400 top of the evidence collected and any hints Roy Murray may have given the suspect, 249 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,880 whoever he or she was, was spotted. We spoke with a deputy 250 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:02,799 on the scene. He was unable to commit to an interview with us, 251 00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:07,359 but he did agree to record his account of what happened three days later. 252 00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:12,000 On a stakeout on twenty fifteen, I was assigned a crime scene protection at 253 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,680 twenty East Shadow Right between eighteen hundred and zero hundred hours. At twenty two 254 00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:21,240 forty hours, while I was observing the house, I observed a shadow figure 255 00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:23,720 in the garage at the address, approximately fifty feet from where the initial crime 256 00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:27,720 had occurred. Initially, I thought that the light from my spotlight had hit 257 00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:32,319 a tree incasted the shadow in the garage. As I started to shift my 258 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,400 spotlight back towards the front of the house, my finger hit the switch and 259 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,359 the light turned off. Momentarily, when the officer's light came back on, 260 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:45,039 he was stunned to see a shadowy figure wearing all black running east toward the 261 00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:49,039 neighbor's driveway. I announced my presence and drove my patrol car up to the 262 00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:53,559 neighbor's driveway to attempt to cut the subject off. I exited my vehicle and 263 00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:56,920 attempted to locate the subject in the open field to the south of the residence 264 00:25:57,039 --> 00:26:02,240 using my flashlight. After all surveys in the field and no subject being seen, 265 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,319 I started back from my vehicle. Upon reaching his car, he decided 266 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,880 to give one last look. Shining his light into the pitch black field, 267 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:18,000 he witnessed a dark figure emerging from the grass. The subjects started running southbound. 268 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,319 I announced my presence once again in radio for backup. I told dispatch 269 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,079 that I was in foot pursuit of the subject. The mail appeared to be 270 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,240 around six ft two inches tall in between one hundred and thirty and one hundred 271 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:33,240 and forty pounds. The tall, skinny fugitive was wearing all black and seemed 272 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,160 to know the area fairly well, since he was running through a field much 273 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,519 faster than your average person would. The terrain of the field was very rough 274 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:45,599 and uneven. I stumbled multiple times while attempting to catch up to the subject. 275 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,960 It appeared that he was very familiar with the area, as if though 276 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,839 he had been there at time or two. Unfortunately, the officer was unable 277 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:59,640 to keep up with the agile suspect and ultimately lost sight of him. With 278 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,920 only circumstantial evidence but a strong lead in the direction of Murray, investigators collected 279 00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:11,359 what they had and called him in. When it came time for detectives to 280 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,119 interview Murray, he told investigators the night of the fire, he was camping 281 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,079 with friends near the Police River, but wouldn't give the names to collaborate his 282 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:23,799 alibi. There was much more to come, though. It now looked possible 283 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:30,720 that one or more of Murray's camping buddies may have been the murderer, or 284 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,799 even that politics was once again at play. Then on Saturday, detectives asked 285 00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:41,640 Murray to drive from Spokane to Lewiston for a second interview inside the Sheriff's office, 286 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:47,440 and that's when Murray told deputies that Culbert murders were actually committed by committed 287 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,559 by someone other than Murray, of course, but we're gonna let you hear 288 00:27:52,759 --> 00:28:00,319 for yourselves in this interrogation audio. It started with a female professional partner and 289 00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:06,160 her snitch, so um they had a pretty good day. How he used 290 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,200 to work for Yeah, you guys got for um? So I worked with 291 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:18,440 Haley Gentry. There's a j sent that has been too. I thought it 292 00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:25,279 was JTF two. He's been to the house where many and we said Terry 293 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,720 l Um and he's also been to her lace or ever I think she is 294 00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:33,880 right now. I haven't talked to every soon that I can call it right 295 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:40,319 now, pursued Haley Gentry. Yeah, I don't. I know she is 296 00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:42,480 she loves in or I know I know she's your girlfriend because you guys are 297 00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:48,559 working together some sort of relationship like who is a partnership? Who is humor 298 00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:55,960 appreciation? Okay, And you think that he thinks she thinks she's like you 299 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,480 know, or you think she's a I don't know, in your concern for 300 00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:06,839 her cities over your concern for him. And because this other person that was 301 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,119 a snish has been at her house into Terry and Lisa's house, and who 302 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:18,119 is this other person was a snish? Um armond Ermond I asked around, 303 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:25,400 supposed that he was jo He uh, I'm guessing a little Eastern guy. 304 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:33,599 Yeah, he's about sixty four, Lauren Trump supposed to. Okay, and 305 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:38,680 your concern is that he may be mold. Now that's a lot of intelligence 306 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:44,920 to get my dumb brain around. But Roy went even deeper, bringing none 307 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:53,880 other than Russian spies into play. It's because, yeah, I'm pretty sure 308 00:29:55,359 --> 00:30:04,200 Russian Okay, telling so exciting. Actually, Thus six that was a rect 309 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:10,759 this guy and I've now now how let me go. I got the NFL 310 00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:15,240 I think I'm supposed to be. So I got multiple for another Russian targets 311 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:22,359 that have been involved in this calm work heater. Again, there's teams, 312 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,039 there's multiple liss termentth list. Um, you guys can deal with some of 313 00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:29,839 it, on to all the handle. Um, some of that I've got 314 00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:33,960 to give art intelligence I've got to give like FBI, this is got ms. 315 00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:40,839 You've heard the term red herring, I take it in forensic debate. 316 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:47,119 A red herring is a statement or piece of information unrelated to the actual subject 317 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,920 and is meant to throw the opponent off track. Well, Roy Murray was 318 00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:56,480 slinging a whole net full of red herrings at detectives. I mean, the 319 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:02,680 guy was practically a fisherman and at stink of rotten seafood. He was probably 320 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:10,480 hoping that his intelligent gibberish would intimidate them, and he was wrong. Next 321 00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:15,480 up was the Mandy was a secret operative getting intel on me explanation. This 322 00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:21,759 dude watches a lot of Louder with Crowder. Apparently I was first approached. 323 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:29,640 Fact well, I believe that I was tarreted by many. I don't think 324 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:37,279 she knows it. Targeted. It means became an intelligently if forgot involved in 325 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:45,839 politics, um um. I think I think her mommy and also been involved. 326 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,960 Um. And which would explain why I don't think exactly from one by 327 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,599 her nurse that she happen to be working for her time. It moved at 328 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:05,000 Mandy that I did the house a subjective Mrie meandered his way through the interrogation 329 00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:08,640 as he sat in a long table in a forest green T shirt and jeans, 330 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:15,400 always giving the proper gesticulations to accompany his many details, even if they 331 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:22,680 didn't make sense. At times he couldn't configure any more scenarios and would say 332 00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:28,160 things like, sorry, I'm racking my brain. Things are just starting to 333 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,160 click. I think it was somewhat, you know, since they worked in 334 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:37,640 intelligence and he seemed to know something about a Soviet group or Russian group called 335 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:43,039 the FSB, it never really made a lot of sense to detectives, and 336 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,480 made even less sense after the fact. That. You know, the story 337 00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:51,839 changed as it went along, so they never bought into it. They did 338 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,759 go to where he said he was camping, and they did some investigation there, 339 00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,119 and they couldn't find any evidence with a park path or anything like that, 340 00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:05,920 or anybody that's seen anybody that looked like Roy Murray. So there wasn't 341 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,880 a lot of credence given to the notion that he was down there at a 342 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,920 campsite. And of course they were never able to talk to anybody else that 343 00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:17,599 would be able to confirm that. He began naming agents who may be involved, 344 00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:22,599 all of whom, in one way or another, were somehow connected to 345 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:29,480 the slaughtering of Amanda's family and decimation of her home. What made it difficult 346 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:35,079 for detectives was that Murray actually had a background in the military, and some 347 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:40,480 of this just might be true. So they kept sifting through the debris, 348 00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:47,720 this time sorting fact from fiction coming from Murray's scrambled mind. Who were you 349 00:33:47,759 --> 00:34:01,400 working for? Selected So he told her that you've been I mean, I 350 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,079 don't mean went very well. It was in around with this one, so 351 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,480 it's it's not someone I don't trust. Um, he's never gonna be open 352 00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:17,239 before back to secret Agent Amanda Murray's wife. Murray was of course concerned about 353 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:23,719 her in more than one way. So how would many be involved? If 354 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,840 exactly? I mean it's say, say your cruise someone builds you know, 355 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,599 you can gain a trust and get him, get him to feed you certain 356 00:34:34,599 --> 00:34:38,320 information for whatever reason. You give them this framers and their moral construction, 357 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:45,679 um, you know, but um, and then they bringing that back to 358 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,199 you. And then before you actually work for the man idea and the things 359 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:55,239 you work for someone mass but nobody doesn't chose this versus so um, who 360 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,599 would many have had contact with it? You know that may have recruited her 361 00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:02,840 or being well maybe why would she recruited her? If what the information would 362 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,320 a what if you will kind of ask that information? Would she'd be able 363 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:15,280 to divide? I'd just gotten started getting known in politics. Within about a 364 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,039 year after we met, I was I went through PCO election district leader and 365 00:35:19,199 --> 00:35:25,199 was on the slafety Consentatorum I was like target for political operations. So if 366 00:35:25,199 --> 00:35:31,880 they would have used her scase direct information about you to watch you, and 367 00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:37,239 there were a couple of operations set up like things, I'm not sure if 368 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:42,880 that was my guys with them. Does somebody wanted me either burned like pressure 369 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,920 or even trying to herve you from politics? Fascinating as Murray's geopolitical saga was, 370 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,360 detectives needed to accomplish the goal. They were instead allowing Murray to take 371 00:35:54,400 --> 00:36:00,719 them down a long and winded tail, and they desperately wanted this terrible movie 372 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,599 to end. You know how you invest a lot of time into watching a 373 00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:08,559 movie that you know from the start isn't grabbing you, but you can't stop 374 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:14,920 watching until almost the end when you finally say, fuck it, this is 375 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,440 dumb, and by then you've lost at least an hour of your life that 376 00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:23,199 you're never getting back. It's kind of like listening to Lore. The detectives 377 00:36:23,199 --> 00:36:27,760 were getting to that point with Murray, all right, so we get into 378 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,400 that because you're still worried about the two of them. Yeah, if she 379 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:36,440 isn't involved or she doesn't know she's involved, she's listening to me, and 380 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:43,519 we definitely want to get into that reason around wither. Then, what I 381 00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:46,119 want you to do is as much you want to still your guys alve this 382 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,159 so we can hear us out of it. I mean to you all the 383 00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:59,400 way or because you're hearing our office established comings. Let me standish you drow 384 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,800 up here this morning from Lewis and voluntarily to meet with us right now, 385 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,000 and you know you're not in custody at this time. Okay, UM, 386 00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:10,559 you know what your rights are when you tell us, tell us from the 387 00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:15,480 beginning. Let's go over twenty where you're, what you're doing, who you're 388 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:21,280 with, those kind of things. Twenty fifth, twenty twenty fifth, the 389 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,559 day before TESTI memorial, TESTI memorially. That's more more elthly Monday in twenty 390 00:37:25,559 --> 00:37:35,679 fifth. Uh, well up in all the wilder, Um, I want 391 00:37:35,679 --> 00:37:37,559 to move my computer or I was finding on kind of setting up in Lewison, 392 00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:46,079 but UM got over there in late nineteen I think I went to UM 393 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:52,239 date Ninja Dave Riser shop, H went to Safe Way and then right about 394 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:59,679 two Mandy Colby, UM and haital conversation. We've been dancing around doing the 395 00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:02,599 people were kind of divorce. UM, so we talked about that to do 396 00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:14,239 a mutual non not. Yeah, it's pretty easy to say so and I 397 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:22,679 feel for her so um we yeah, she's like he's not better thing, 398 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,840 he's not hearing better too, and we're healthier apart. So m hmm. 399 00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:36,559 Now they were getting somewhere divorce, you say, amicable, healthier apart, 400 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:44,079 you say, perhaps maybe sounds like a live and let live situation according to 401 00:38:44,159 --> 00:38:49,039 Murray. That is, he continued laying out the day, saying that after 402 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,559 talking to Amanda, he went and hung out with his friends before heading home. 403 00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:58,760 He then diverted the topic to someone else who could be the culprit, 404 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:06,880 a militia extremist he described as shit, but Murray didn't feel he had the 405 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:14,239 capability to carry out something like the killings and the fires. They were getting 406 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:21,280 somewhere. But it definitely seemed like Murray was constantly usurping control, deliberately distracting 407 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,960 and confusing the detectives. I mean, he's the smartest guy in the room, 408 00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:30,239 don't you know. They're a higher archy of structure for the people are 409 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:36,679 like, don't conculate nobody's to charge of or working for the other. Now, 410 00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:46,039 clear, So I understood there. So he got Bobby here, and 411 00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:51,519 then you're telling me that Bobby's got some snishes and one of those is armored. 412 00:39:52,079 --> 00:39:57,519 Yeah, and who's the other one? You said, Well, it 413 00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:02,920 was so difficult to get a goddamn straight answer and sort through the twisting timeline 414 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,960 that the detective resorted to a whiteboard. At least he didn't have a map 415 00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:15,400 with the pins and ropes connecting everything. I guess like a teacher trying to 416 00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:20,880 establish dominance in the classroom, pay attention students. That only lasted for a 417 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:27,320 few minutes before the whiteboard was no longer effective at all. Frankly, he 418 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,280 ran out of space on it, and detectives were running out of time. 419 00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:40,119 Since you talked to us, or even before, there is anything SUSI was 420 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,880 sufficious and happening with you being table where you can follow, where you follow 421 00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:54,960 your universe, that's prettyful. Was following me for a while, but I'm 422 00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:00,440 pretty sure was going to be. It wasn't pretty sure. Um, somebody 423 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:08,440 followed me to WSU on Tuesday. It's all I'm about to do. Jerry 424 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,199 left WUIs Tanker many talk to me and I came up this way. Yeah. 425 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,599 I had had a white Dutch van that parked right from the old book 426 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:22,519 between there and ky House. Um, so you hole, Uh now I 427 00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:25,599 had before that. I mean, I don't worry about everything much gas, 428 00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:30,719 so it's not really a problem. I didn't know anybody's day. I did 429 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:35,559 keep the face least enough that if somebody was, it was stuck out. 430 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,920 So anything else didn't have any around you concerning the US city SS the point 431 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:46,480 three point four pots you talk to me. Anything else is the most suspicious 432 00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:50,960 thing. That what really confirms this. FSB has been a moment in this, 433 00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:55,039 either trying to intimidate me or trying to type their loose ends. It's 434 00:41:55,079 --> 00:42:01,400 totally like an action movie. White Van FBI being followed, attempts at intimidation, 435 00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:07,039 fires, families annihilated, but every possible lead had to be ascertained as 436 00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:13,159 fact or fiction. So detectives went to the site. Murray said he was 437 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:20,519 camping just before the fires, and there was no evidence that anyone whatsoever had 438 00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:25,320 been there. Next, they started tracking down people matching the names Murray gave 439 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:31,599 them. This chase was ridiculous. One male named Bobby said that his brother 440 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:37,559 Lucas had information of value, but Bobby didn't want to give out Lucas's phone 441 00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:43,719 number. He wanted to be in control, so he contacted Lucas. While 442 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,800 speaking with Bobby, they learned that he had in fact lived in Russia and 443 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,639 was part of the Russian military. After finally locating Lucas, Lucas's mother came 444 00:42:54,679 --> 00:43:00,000 onto the scene and informed police that Lucas and Bobby were not others, but 445 00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:06,639 had known each other since pre high school. She added that Robert is a 446 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:12,280 little bit mental and never had anything to do with Russia. When detectives checked 447 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,920 Murray's phone, no calls had ever been made to either one of these contacts, 448 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:22,199 and after the interview, it was found that there was enough probable cause 449 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:29,039 for arrest mister Murray for three counts of first murder in reference to Staffs. 450 00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:35,559 So what would make someone wipe out an entire family of his wife, even 451 00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:40,400 if he didn't want a divorce? Was he crazy like his wife Amanda emphatically 452 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,159 stated the night she pulled into her home to find everything she loved was gone. 453 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:51,239 Was it simply an act of control? Murray was unable to let go 454 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,519 of Amanda and decided to wipe out everything that stood in the way of their 455 00:43:54,559 --> 00:44:01,880 marriage? Or did PTSD cause Murray to lose it after being triggered by something 456 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:08,000 or someone, whatever it was, this scrawny, nerdy killer already had a 457 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:14,719 reputation to know him was to be terrified of him now. A lot of 458 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:19,199 people have been reluctant to testify because right now there's no guarantee that Murray is 459 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,119 going to be convicted. Friends and even ex family described Murray as a man 460 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:28,239 obsessed with guns, someone who had often contemplated the steps he would need to 461 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,360 take to get away with murder. Murray called it shooting and scooting a man. 462 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:37,159 A constable is so afraid of Roy Murray that today she asked the judge 463 00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:39,840 to let her take shelter in the witness stand before Murray was let in a 464 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,400 court, and a lot of people were They were actually very afraid of Roy 465 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,760 Murray. All the witnesses that testified were very afraid of Roy Murray. I 466 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:55,039 believe most of them said it. And they said that if you guys don't 467 00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:59,199 get him the first time, don't be thinking you're going to be calling me 468 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:04,840 for another because you'll never find me. It is no wonder witnesses didn't want 469 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:12,079 their faces shown in court. If this well armed doomsday prepper could take out 470 00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:16,320 an innocent family because things weren't going his way, what else was he capable 471 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:50,400 of. Residents of Colbert were in fear for their lives. Amanda and Roy 472 00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:57,840 Murray were married only a few years before Amanda began noticing controlling and obsessive behaviors. 473 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,400 She also maintained that y had PTSD from his war experience in Iraq. 474 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,960 As a veteran, he suffered injuries and was in fact diagnosed with PTSD. 475 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,800 Amanda wanted out of the marriage, and her parents were encouraging her to follow 476 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,519 through with a divorce. She moved back home with her mom, dad, 477 00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:27,119 and brother, not realizing that she should cherish every moment of the days leading 478 00:46:27,199 --> 00:46:32,320 up to May twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, because those days would be her 479 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:38,159 last ones with them. That morning, she finished an extra shift as a 480 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:45,360 nurse and arrived home to a chaotic scene. The home and barn were on 481 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:51,280 fire, a woman's shot up corpse now covered in a yellow blanket, a 482 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,639 deceased male found in the barn, and another found in the house, all 483 00:46:55,719 --> 00:47:05,480 of which were her family members. She immediately pointed to Roy Murray between twelve 484 00:47:05,679 --> 00:47:10,039 thirty and two o'clock, but fires didn't get set until two o'clock in the 485 00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:15,719 morning. So the state's theory, and I used it in closing argument, 486 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:21,880 was that mister Murray, who did not know that his wife. She normally 487 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,480 gets home about twelve thirty in the morning from her shift, and on this 488 00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:30,840 particular case, and she wasn't there, and she got home at three thirty 489 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,880 in the morning. As it was, she had worked in overtime and mister 490 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:39,800 Murray didn't know that. So the state's theory was nobody hangs around a scene 491 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:45,880 in which they've committed three murders and waits ninety minutes before they set fire to 492 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:51,320 the house and leave unless they're waiting for somebody. Roy Murray lay in wait 493 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,719 as if he were still at war, ready to ambush the enemy, but 494 00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:02,239 in this case the enemy consisted of three in a victims. Speculation suggested that 495 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:09,559 Roy's PTSD was to blame, but Spokane veterans we're not happy about this conclusion. 496 00:48:10,639 --> 00:48:15,840 Here. Doctor Quinn Bastion, Navy veteran and Chief of Behavioral Health Services 497 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:24,039 at Man Grand Staff VAMC addresses misconceptions about PTSD. PTSD structs with a trauma, 498 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:29,039 something so horrifying, something so awful, that it just won't leave you 499 00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:31,880 alone. I want to be really clear about one thing. PTSD does not 500 00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:36,599 cause violence. As someone who works for the VA trying to help veterans every 501 00:48:36,679 --> 00:48:39,519 day. It deeply disturbs me when PTSD is brought up whenever there's a tragic 502 00:48:39,519 --> 00:48:45,000 event in the community. PTSD does not cause violence. We know that there 503 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,400 are risk factors that cause violence, and PTSD is not high on the list. 504 00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:54,599 At the top of the list for violent behaviors is evil, pure evil. 505 00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:01,519 Prosecutor Larry Haskell told us that detective's close to the case voiced their opinions. 506 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,639 Well, the only thing that I can say, and it wasn't brought 507 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,079 up at trial or anything like that, but of course, you know, 508 00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:13,079 we have a lot of discussions with law enforcement as we prepare for a trial, 509 00:49:13,679 --> 00:49:17,000 and we had talked about, you know, some of these behaviors and 510 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,840 some of these allegations by mister Murray, about the involvement of you know, 511 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:28,159 secret agents and the FSB and that sort of thing. And one of the 512 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,000 detectives told us that in his opinion, and again he's not a trained medical 513 00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:37,559 person or anything like that, he said, you know, Roy is just 514 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:45,440 diabolically evil. With all the paranoid ramblings by Roy suggesting secret government involvement, 515 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:52,440 Russian spies and snitches, it would seem reasonable to assume that Roy may have 516 00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:59,599 had other mental health issues. Prosecutor Larry Haskell explained why this was probably not 517 00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:02,199 the case. Well, you know, I only get to know what the 518 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:07,519 defense allows me to know about that I ever heard mister Murray speak, other 519 00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:13,079 than from the interviews that were recorded that we're played for the jury. There 520 00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:17,159 wasn't any obvious indications to a lay person anyway, or certainly to the police 521 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:25,719 that he was suffering from any mental disabilities. And what the defense knew they 522 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:30,760 kept to themselves. But I know I've been doing this job type of work 523 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:36,960 now since nineteen ninety eight, and I can say that they will not hesitate 524 00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:43,920 to bring a revised Code of Washington ten Dot seventy seven mental Health stay if 525 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:49,400 they suspect that their client is disabled to the point where they can't assist in 526 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,239 their defense or possibly didn't know right from wrong at the time of the commission 527 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:58,239 of the crime. There you haven't. Roy Murray is very likely a scene 528 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:05,760 but controlling an evil monster. Despite his attempts to manipulate the narrative, the 529 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:12,280 evidence was everywhere pointing directly at him. After getting a search warrant from Murray's 530 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:19,079 car, detectives found a Walter P twenty two semi automatic handgun, a box 531 00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:24,760 of twenty two caliber cartridges, and bloodstains on the driver's seat and floor mat 532 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:31,679 at his house and in a shed on Murray's property, more guns, a 533 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:37,559 dozen cell phones, flares, gas, and many more pieces of evidence, 534 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:44,599 making him the culprit. Although this case was largely circumstantial, two items were 535 00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:50,400 essential in linking Roy Murray to the scene of the crime. Number one, 536 00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:55,840 the special gun lube that no one but the inventor and Murray had access to, 537 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:04,079 and number two, a gift from Murray to Amanda, the estranged wife 538 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,280 actually couldn't remember the name of the inventor, but remember the name of the 539 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:14,840 inventor's wife, and she was also to determine what items were missing from the 540 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,599 house, and it was determined that there was one, only one item that 541 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:24,360 was missing from the house, which was also helped to tie the case to 542 00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:30,239 Roy Murray. It was a Taurus thirty eight revolver that he had given as 543 00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:36,840 a gift to his wife and he had expressed displeasure with her on a previous 544 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,280 occasion that she didn't take good care of it and he was missing from the 545 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:46,519 house. Interesting that this was never about the money, given that three thousand 546 00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:52,199 dollars was not missing, but because Murray was pissed off about the way Amanda 547 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:58,039 treated the gun he gave her, he stole it right after luring her father 548 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,559 to the barn and shooting him, returning to the house to shoot her mother 549 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:07,320 and brother, and torching the place. Thanks to some good detective work, 550 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:13,639 investigators were able to uncover Roy Murray's deep, dark secrets. For a while 551 00:53:13,679 --> 00:53:16,199 there, it looked like Roy Murray had committed the perfect crime, three innocent 552 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:21,559 people executed in and around their home, the killer setting a fire to cover 553 00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:25,280 as tracks with no DNA or fingerprints. Murray's public defenders asked the jury to 554 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:30,239 acquit their client in what was a very circumstantial case, but prosecutors said everything 555 00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:37,199 about this divorce gone bad implicated Murray as the sole suspect. Despite hearing four 556 00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,360 weeks of testimony, it only took twelve hours of deliberations for the jury to 557 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,519 find Murray guilty, including attempting to murder his now former wife Amanda. She 558 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:50,719 was in court today and embraced the detective who brought her ex to justice. 559 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,639 Murray killed her little brother and today John Constable's father thanked prosecutors for their hard 560 00:53:55,679 --> 00:54:00,800 work. This same jury also found the existence of aggravating factors and all three 561 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,880 of these murders, which means Roy Murray will now spend the rest of his 562 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,360 life in prison. Murray sentencing now scheduled for January twelfth. The trial took 563 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:15,880 place in November of twenty sixteen, and it couldn't have come soon enough for 564 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:21,639 Amanda Constable. Murray sat motionless and showed little emotion as the judge handed down 565 00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:25,679 three life sentences. Friends and families of the victims cried as they learned the 566 00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:30,639 man convicted of killing their loved ones will spend the rest of his life behind 567 00:54:30,679 --> 00:54:36,159 bars. Amanda could not have known that her decision to save herself from Roy 568 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:42,480 Murray would cost her her whole family the fear that my family and the people 569 00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:45,880 around us experienced, wondering if the monster was just around the next corner, 570 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:52,840 trying to find places to hide. Terry and Lisa Canfield's family found themselves together 571 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:58,440 again, with their two adult children returning to the nest after failed relationships. 572 00:54:59,559 --> 00:55:04,760 Terry Lisa were said to be madly in love with each other. According to 573 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:10,679 everyone who knew them. Terry was an outstanding human being and role model, 574 00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:17,159 which made the irony of finding his firefighter's helmet on the ground beneath flickering flames 575 00:55:19,039 --> 00:55:22,360 all the more bitter sweet. On the night of his death, Terry was 576 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:28,679 able to leave a legacy and his daughter Amanda, and he also left a 577 00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:34,880 legacy through his wisdom in a video he made about his personal philosophy. Hi, 578 00:55:35,119 --> 00:55:37,960 Terry Canfield here. I was watching a video by Brendan Burchard at the 579 00:55:38,199 --> 00:55:44,000 High Performance Academy and he challenged us to make a video that might help change 580 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,920 lives. And so here's my video. And just to give you a little 581 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:50,000 background on me, I've been in the Fire Service since nineteen seventy nine. 582 00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:52,039 I'm a fire lieutenant. I've been a paramedic since nineteen eighty one. And 583 00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:57,679 I don't see that to impress, but to let you know that before the 584 00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,119 Fire Service, I'd never seen a dead body. And since I've been in 585 00:56:00,119 --> 00:56:05,440 the Fire Service, I have literally been in the presence of thousands of people 586 00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:08,039 dying. And that makes an impact on you, and I wanted to share 587 00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:13,440 what impact it's made on me, and that's to remind me reinforce that We 588 00:56:13,519 --> 00:56:17,400 are multidimensional beings. We live in the physical world, our physical bodies. 589 00:56:19,639 --> 00:56:22,599 Everything on this side of death is in this body. And I've been in 590 00:56:22,639 --> 00:56:28,679 the transites trying to deal with injuries and illnesses for thirty years. We're also 591 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,760 mental creatures. We need to exercise our minds as much as we exercise our 592 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:37,840 bodies. That's what separates us from most of the other animals. We're emotional 593 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:45,239 beings and I put these on a scale of ascending order. Emotionally, that's 594 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:50,159 more important to me than physical or mental because that's the color of life. 595 00:56:50,199 --> 00:56:52,599 That's what makes life what it is to us. That's the depth. And 596 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:58,840 if life to you is just a black and white movie or sepia, you 597 00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:02,960 need to stop dying and start living. And lastly, is we're spiritual beings. 598 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,320 There is something on the other side of death. I believe that with 599 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,320 every atom in my body. I'm almost at the end of my career and 600 00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,159 I want to stop helping people one emergency at a time. I want to 601 00:57:13,159 --> 00:57:19,599 get out there and be a catalyst in changing people's lives. And if this 602 00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:24,400 helps you, you're welcome to it. And that's this. Don't take this 603 00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:34,400 life too seriously. But don't ever take it for granted. Roy Murray took 604 00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:40,400 life for granted, not only the lives of the family he stamped out with 605 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:47,320 no remorse, but his own life as well. He survived war and the 606 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:53,760 severe physical and mental injuries that it caused, only to end up in prison. 607 00:57:54,760 --> 00:58:01,599 That's because he could not exercise control over his anger and his need for 608 00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:08,400 vengeance. If he couldn't have Amanda, no one could. Not only did 609 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:14,199 he refuse to allow Amanda and her family to move on with their lives and 610 00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:20,199 the way they wanted, but he refused to allow them to live at all. 611 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:29,519 The family's ashes were buried, and Amanda's life will forever be altered. 612 00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:49,239 That's gonna do it. Thank you for joining us. We have a new 613 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,679 show called Sword and Scale Nightmares. It's available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. 614 00:58:53,760 --> 00:59:00,159 Please check it out if you can. Thank you so much in Stay Safe. 615 00:59:23,079 --> 00:59:28,360 Hey Mike, this is Tony calling from Costa Mesa, California, and 616 00:59:28,559 --> 00:59:31,159 I wanted to leave this voicemail not really for you, but for all the 617 00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:37,119 other listeners out there of your show. I've got a couple points that I 618 00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:40,400 want to make, but for all you guys out there, who are listening 619 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:45,440 to sordon Scale and listening to it any other app other than the Sword and 620 00:59:45,519 --> 00:59:50,039 Scale app. You're doing it wrong. Go to the app store downloads to 621 00:59:50,159 --> 00:59:53,000 Sword and Scale app. These guys is an amazing job building this App's got 622 00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:58,880 all of the features inside the app. It's it's amazing and lead me to 623 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:04,599 my next point. Get Sorden Scale Plus Sorden Scale Plus. Get them guys, 624 01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,920 need to get it. It's so worth it. It's one of the 625 01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:13,079 best subscriptions a million subscriptions that I have right now. Go get Sorden Scale 626 01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:15,519 Plus. Don't eat anytime. Love you, Mike, He's doing what you're 627 01:00:15,559 --> 01:00:19,519 doing. Can wait to hear more stories? All right, all right,