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Hello, and welcome to Open minds
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I am here
with Martin Chillin. Willis Chillen because you're

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a pretty chill dude, I am
today. Well, you usually are,

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right. I've never heard you like
get really flustered or upset and like yell

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and cuss or or just kind of
well, no, I shouldn't say that.

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I've heard a little bit of that
I think before. Oh maybe offline,

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but oh nothing real big. Yeah, behind the scenes, yes,

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behind the scenes, Martin is a
crazy, tyrant bad man. But we

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were even listening to one of your
shows the other day, and you know,

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you're just so you're very chill.
Yeah, I put myself to sleep

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my own shows. Yeah. So
my guest today is Chuck Szukowski. Of

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course, we were out at this
Devil's Tower event in Wyoming, and Chuck

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is a good friend of mine.
So people who have been listening to the

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show for many many years, which
some have some have been with us for

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a long time, they know I
used to have Chuck on quite a bit

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a long time ago, and it's
been I think actually a few years since

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I've had them on. But it's
about time that we catch up. But

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one of the things Chuck's been doing
is he's been busy with this book that

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came out, the thirty seventh Parallel. Like a lot of people have interviewed

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Ben Mezrick, and he is the
author of the book. However, the

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book is about Chuck Zukowski and his
sister Wie Ziegelmeyer and their work investigating UFOs

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and the paranormal and how they feel
that there's a lot of, you know,

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strange stuff going on along the thirty
seventh Parallel. Now, Ben Mezrick,

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I could see why people would want
to interview him because he's well known.

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He's a you know, New York
Times bestselling author, and he's written

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books that have been made into movies, including this one. I don't know

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if the movie was called Straight Flush. I think it was called something Else,

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but it was about this college kid
who figured out how to you know,

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do kind of like a method of
winning at poker and won a bunch

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of money. The social network and
that was a movie, you know,

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about Facebook and the founding of Facebook. So he's those are the books he's

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written, and now this thirty seventh
Parallel, and we'll go over this with

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Chuck is in the works to being
made into a movie. Also, really,

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so is this movie? Did you
say it was actually about Chuck and

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his sister? Yeah? Wow,
I know. And like there's some really

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big names involved in fact. In
the interview that we're going to listen to

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in a minute, he kind of
dropped some bombs, some names of some

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of the people involved, and I
don't think he shared that before. And

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there are some big, big names, but I don't want to tell you

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now because some people may be going, oh, I just got the best

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part. They just like read the
last page of the book to me.

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So I'm just gonna quit listening because
I've heard the best mm hmm. So

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anyway, I haven't had Ben Mezick
on because I was one of the first

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people to have Chuck on talking about
the thirty seventh Parallel when he came up

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with the idea was it was partially
off of some Open Minds trending that I

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had done, and because we work
together on different stuff, and so it

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was like, well, why do
I want to interview this guy who's written

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the book when I've talked to when
I could go to the source. So

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I haven't had Ben Mezick on,
but I think Chuck's kind of convinced me

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maybe I should look to do that. And they had asked me if I

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wanted to have a mom you probably
I wouldn't doubt if you got a note

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from them too, have you that
you can think of? No, I

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don't remember. It's possible though,
Yeah, you probably. You probably did

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in your email somewhere. So yes, that's who's on the show. Have

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you had Chuck Sukowski on? I
have not. Oh he's a neat guy.

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Have you met him? I have
not. No. Okay, so

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one maybe we'll be together and I'll
be able to introduce you to him.

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And what about Debbie Ziegelmeyer. She's
on the board of mouf on and she's

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the state director in Missouri. No, but I'll have to tag you.

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Yeah, she did a great job. She did a talk out there in

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Wyoming. They're always together in a
pair, and a lot of times they'll

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present together, but this was nice
because they presented separately, and Debbie did

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a great job. Some really interesting
cases from Missouri that she talked about.

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So it was a very fun time, cool event. And I've got some

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pictures and stuff up on my Facebook, so people can go look at that.

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But I guess let's go ahead and
get into the news. Okay.

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Just before that, I just want
to tell you that I did find an

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email that I sent to someone about
that book, the thirty seventh Parallel,

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but I did not get a reply. I was trying to do Actually the

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prices right, weren't were It's kind
of a harder one to do. That's

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a who I don't know. I
can't do it all right, So the

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news and so this was written by
a one Alejandro Rojas. Hey, that's

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me that you on September twentieth.
So this has to do with the disappearance

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of the UK's most spectacular UFO photo, so hanging on the wall near the

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British government's UFO desk. Was one
of the men who occupied that desk,

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called the most spectacular UFO photo ever
sent to the Ministry of Defense, the

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MOD the photo disappeared however since then, and well it was Nick Pope,

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of course, and he ran the
mods UFO project from nineteen ninety one to

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nineteen ninety four. And when he
was first assigned to the position, he

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wasn't excited about it and he felt
the issue was ridiculous and he was not

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looking forward to have to deal with
a bunch of UFA and all that stuff.

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Well, over the years, Pope
found some very credible cases of incredible

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things, and he began to see
there was something really mysterious about the phenomena.

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And one of the cases that led
him to the collusion that had to

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do with a photo that was made
into a poster or it was like a

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poster size that he found hung near
his desk when he began the work.

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And so anyway, the photo showed
a picture of a large diamond shaped craft

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with a jet in the background.
And when he asked about the photo,

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he was told that they officially determined
the image was real, and they estimated

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the craft to be about twenty five
meters, which is just over eighty feet

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in diameter, and if asked,
they were instructed to answer no definite conclusion

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that had been reach regarding the large
diamond shaped object. So, anyway,

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this photograph just disappeared and no one
knew what happened to it. Is that

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right? I mean, I'm not
going to read through this whole Yeah,

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you're exactly right. That's what's fun
about this story. Now, I've heard

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Nick tell this story over the years
several times and I've always been very intrigued

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by it, so it's about time
I wrote something about it. But also

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Channel five did a recreation of this
poster of this image, and I don't

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know when they did it, but
I've only seen it maybe in the last

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couple of years, and it's a
really cool re rendition. I mean,

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and Nick worked with them to try
to get it accurate, and it's an

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amazing picture of you know, this
metallic diamond shaped thing. Of course,

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this is cgi, but it's as
close to the original as possible, and

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Nick says it's pretty close to what
was hanging in the office. So the

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story's cool. But then coupled with
now that we have this recreation makes it

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even more exciting. So it's one
of those stories where sometimes you think,

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you know what, this is a
really good story. I kind of take

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it for granted because I've heard it
so much, but I should write something

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about it so people have kind of
a record of it, and so I

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did. Nick's got a more in
depth write up of this whole event that

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you can go see, including some
information about the UK mod Ufo files.

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Regarding the case that this took place. And as for that case, it

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was nineteen I believe ninety when this
couple in Calvin essentially saw this, took

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some photographs. They remained anonymous,
but they sent them to the Scottish Daily

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newspaper. The Scottish Daily then asked
the mood about it, and the MD

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said, h let us take a
look. Would you mind if we took

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the pictures and the negatives, And
somehow the paper led them so they kept

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the negatives. But yeah, this
poster was on the wall. When Nick

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showed up his first day, he
found the case to be incredible. People

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said it was real. And then
his boss took it down eventually, And

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this is interesting. So his boss
essentially became convinced that it was some sort

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of high tech thing that was probably
American. And even though really yeah,

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and even though the Americans and the
departments they contacted denied saying, you know,

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we don't know what it is,
his boss just became convinced that this

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was kind of an American and British
secret, and so he thought, you

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know, if this is a secret, being patriots, we should take this

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poster down and help, you know, keep the secret and so he took

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it down and Nick never saw it
again. He thinks it was probably shredded,

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but that speculation on Nick's part as
far as you know, the motivations

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of his boss. But I guess
his boss was convinced it with some sort

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of top secret aircraft. But what's
incredible? Why would an American top secret

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project be tested in Scotland? Isn't
that isn't that kind of bizarre? It

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is very bizarre, maybe for secrecy
or something. Not only that, it's

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you know, an eighty diameter you
know, metallic thing hovering in the sky

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and taking off at high speed and
that's quite a technology for you know what

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thirty years ago. So yeah,
it took off vertically straight. Yeah,

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so yeah, this is such a
this is a big mystery. This is

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I think one of the great stories
uk UFO stories out there. So yeah,

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finally wrote something up on that.
Really cool. Yeah it got anything

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else? Uh? No, it
does look like it has a little to

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it though I don't know what that
part is trying to portray. And you

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know, Nick does not address that
in his rite up of this story,

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but I would like to ask him
that question, because yeah, it does

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have some kind of weird little tail
or poof for I don't know what that

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is on the right end of it. And interesting to note too that they're

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not sure what the aircraft was.
They think it might have been a harrier.

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There were people jets flying around at
that time, you know, military

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stuff, but they were not able
to contact any pilot who they could be

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sure was the person flying the plane. And they're not sure if the pilot

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even noticed the UFO and so you
know, that's still kind of a mystery.

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Yeah, Well, like my guess
that you've had on your show,

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Richard Theme and a number of other
people have said that I'm sure you've talked

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to that. We only see about, you know, twenty years. I

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mean, there's twenty years of military
secret, military craft that we don't even

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know anything about yet. Yeah,
that's what they usually say. You know.

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There was a story Area fifty one
a plane crashed recently and it was

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very hush hush. They announced a
couple of days after the incident that the

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pilot had died in the crash,
and that's how people found out about it,

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but they would not say what sort
of aircraft it was. They said

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what it wasn't and because people ask
is it this? Is it that?

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Which are all the known craft we
know about, and they were like,

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nope, but it's none of those. So that some sort of top secret

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craft who knows what the heck this
thing was that crashed out there recently and

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unfortunately the pilot to not survive.
Oh wow yeah yeah yeah. So another

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story I wrote, It's okay to
move on. Yeah, it's just an

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awkward moment again. Yeah, yeah, okay, it's Martin. I'm gonna

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blame you. No, it's it's
both because it's it's but it's fun to

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be awkward, like it's hip hip
to be square type of thing, right,

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So yeah, Spilberg. So Wyoming, Actually a few stories came out

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of Wyoming. One of those that
I wrote and I put it on Huffington

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Post this weekend, is regarding Spilberg. So you know, we had lis

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Biegelan recently and we've had him on
in the past, but essentially that story

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he told us just a couple of
weeks ago, and I think he's told

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me before where he met Spilberg.
But I wrote that up and I got

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a YouTube interview of him talking about
it, and I embedded that. But

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I also found, at least in
the Huffington Post version, and I'm gonna

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add this to the Open Minds version, a really cool couple of minutes of

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Spielberg and the other actors of the
movie talking about Heinek M and the UFOs.

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Yeah, it's a really cool clip. So people have to check that

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out. I will get that in
the Open mind story, but they can

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go to Huffington Post and also see
it. And of course I've got those

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links out there. But the other
stories that came out, the Son of

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All Places wrote some stories, one
of them about Travis Walton. Of course

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we're all pretty familiar with his stories, but the cool one was Mark D'Antonio.

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And I don't know if i've I've
heard him tell this story a lot,

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because I've spent a lot of time
with him, but I can't remember

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if he's told this story on one
of my podcasts. I believe he has,

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but I've had him on quite a
bit. You've had him on right,

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Yeah, he did. He told
the story on Marshall the Navy sub

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story, right, yeah, fast
mover, Yeah exactly. So he had

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never really told mainstream media about it. If you consider the Sun mainstream media,

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which I guess pretty much they are
in the UK, even though they're

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tabloid. And of course if you
go there you'll see some nudity, especially

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girls in their bikinis who's tops fall
off, or celebrities, you know,

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skinny dipping or whatever. That's one
of their favorite things to write about.

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But they also like to write about
UFOs. And so they wrote up a

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story on Mark's claims and he was
fine with it about you know, Mark

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saying he was on this sub and
sitting next to the sonar guy when the

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sonar guy caught this fast moving object
under the water and told his boss about

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it, and then they he called
it a fast mover. And then Mark

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asked the CEO, I guess of
the ship, Hey, you know,

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I want to talk more about that
that fast mover or that thing that they

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caught. And I guess the guy
told him, he said, are you

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having a good time, you know, on the ship on the sub And

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he's like, yeah, great time. He's like, well, let's keep

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it this way, which is his
key to kind of shut up about the

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whole thing. But the reason Mark
was on the sub in the first place,

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I mean, civilians, I don't
I think rarely get to go on

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subs, but he was except for
contractors, which is what he is,

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and he makes like models for the
Navy and stuff, and so he had

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a top secret clearance at the time. So he says later on he asked

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some you know, other officer with
the military to tell him about the fast

213
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mover program and this guy told him
something like, you know, I can't

214
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.519
tell you about that or something like
that. So, yeah, that's it's

215
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:59.200
pretty interesting story. Yeah, and
other other places are picking it up,

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like, yeah, it's in the
International Business Times and it's so what's it's

217
00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:11.319
going around? Which is kind of
cool because especially the International Business Times was

218
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kind of a smaller new service,
Uh, but it's getting more and more

219
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popular, and especially lately it's it's
had some uh some exclusive news regarding politics

220
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:32.359
and stuff that's putting kind of more
in the limelight and being taken more seriously.

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So it's a it's a good time
to have, you know, mark

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one's exposure for this whole story to
get that and in that paper. So

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yeah, it's kind of cool they
wrote that up. So, uh,

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what was your time like out at
h at the event? It was great.

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00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:56.480
It was a lot of fun.
It got to meet the state director

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for Moufun in Wyoming, got Richard
Beckwith he lives in I think it's called

227
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Rock Point or Rock Spring. I
think it's called the town he lives in

228
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in Wyoming, and he's the city
attorney out there. So he also recently

229
00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:17.640
got put on the move On's board
business boards, so kind of that board

230
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that oversees the whole organization. So
yeah, really nice guy. He was

231
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really interesting. And then there was
Chuck and Debbie, Mark d Antonio,

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Travis Walton, I think that was
all of us that were speakers. We

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all did like two talks each.
But it was fun. It was is

234
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it kind of a hard place to
get to. You had to fly into

235
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this town called Gillette and then drive
an hour or so to Hewlett near the

236
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tower. And the tower is amazing. It's I bet it's much what about

237
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other rock structures around or is just
like no in the middle by itself.

238
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I mean, there are crops kind
of here and there, but it's kind

239
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of it's really pretty out there.
I mean it's rolling hills, there are

240
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kind of gullies and stuff like that, you know where the waters kind of

241
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cut these really cool formations, so
it is really pretty out there. And

242
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then you know, we were in
the pines and stuff, so and we're

243
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not far from the Black Hills there, so really really pretty. But yeah,

244
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.839
this thing just kind of juts out
of the ground and there's nothing like

245
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:33.799
it, I mean, totally different. And when I posted my pictures on

246
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.720
Facebook, I did put a link
to how it was formed so people can

247
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go see that. And it's kind
of like I think they call it a

248
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:47.799
volcano cap or something like that.
I forget the terminology, but you can

249
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go see the geology on how it
was made and having petrified wood is not

250
00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:59.039
a part of that at all,
which some people speculate. And it was

251
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kind of a running joe out there
because there's this new thing that it's a

252
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:11.359
petrified gigantic tree. But yeah,
yeah, someone saw it perfectly. I

253
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can see how it kind of looks
like that. But but it is solid

254
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:19.000
rock and it's really cool. I
mean it is. It is odd and

255
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:23.160
different. It's really unique, so
it's kind of fun. We got to

256
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:30.279
Karen and I do a walk around
it with Travis Walton and he was in

257
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.759
a suit and loafers. I was
in my flip flops. And there's lots

258
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.039
of tourists and stuff that, but
it wasn't that big of a walk long

259
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.920
of a walk, and it was
pretty cool. Was the event well attended.

260
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:51.119
It was for what they wanted.
So for instance, the room we're

261
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in that we talked and could only
hold forty people and it was packed,

262
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so so in that sense it was
good. I don't know if they're going

263
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:04.240
to do it again, but they'll
definitely need some more space if they do.

264
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:07.599
But Bob Olson, who is kind
of the host, he owns the

265
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best Western at this place the talks
were held in, and he also there's

266
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:17.319
a golf course above it, and
he builds the log cabins and stuff and

267
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log homes there. So there were
some nice rooms we got to stay in

268
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and we had a view of the
tower, which was really cool. But

269
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he is a great guy, great
host. And then they actually created an

270
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.440
organization for the Devil's Tower UFO Rendezvous
and that was ran by a woman called

271
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Laurie Tucker, and she was also
very very nice. She's really into UFOs

272
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.519
and stuff and kind of was the
person who kind of got this whole thing

273
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rolling and suggested it to Bob and
others to bring some people into town and

274
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it worked. Wow. And are
they planning on doing this for once a

275
00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.680
year or something. I don't know. I don't know. They may or

276
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:03.279
may not. They I think they've
got to figure that out. They got

277
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to look at, you know,
their expenses versus the what they made,

278
00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:11.960
and that can take some time to
figure out, especially when it comes to

279
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.039
like a city event, because then
they have to factor in, you know,

280
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.759
did the town make money, not
just so taxes, but did it

281
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bring business and did the businesses make
money? And was it worth you know,

282
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.880
everything they spend type of thing.
The writer for the son who was

283
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:33.200
out there is really cool and she's
writing some great stories and so this stuff

284
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.480
about Travis and Mark and then is
getting out there and then you know,

285
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:41.960
the Spilbrig stuff. And I really
loved using kind of this Spilbrig thing and

286
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:48.279
the momentum around Close Encounters to kind
of also get the word out there about

287
00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.039
the United Nations and this thing that
happened in the seventies, which is pretty

288
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.400
important. I think. Now this
is probably sounds layman, but I just

289
00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:03.720
don't know. Did they actually film
the ending of Close Encounters right there?

290
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:07.359
Yeah? They did. They did
film a lot of it there, so

291
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:12.400
there was an actual camp and yeah, they did film a lot of it,

292
00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.880
so you know, it's back and
forth. There was a lot of

293
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:22.079
CG and some other stuff. But
yeah, well cool, cool stuff.

294
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But we better wrap it up.
Thank you again for joining us for the

295
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:33.920
news, mister Martin, Chill and
Willis. As always, it's my pleasure.

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Before we talk to our guests,
we are going to do a short

297
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:40.960
break. If you're listening to KGr
you're going to hear some commercials here.

298
00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.119
Be sure to patronize these people because
they keep KGr A on the air and

299
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:51.240
all this great radio, so do
it Otherwise, if you're listening to the

300
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:55.079
podcast, we'll have a short musical
break and then we'll be back with our

301
00:24:55.119 --> 00:25:25.160
guests. Chuck Zukowski, hanging tight. We are back, and I want

302
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:30.160
to remind you you're listening to Open
Mind UFO Radio. I am happy to

303
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:37.759
welcome back to the show the UFO
nut, not just a UFO nut,

304
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:45.440
Chuck Zukowski. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, we'll have to explain the UFO

305
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.920
nuts stuff because there are a lot
of ufhone there are. But yeah,

306
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:56.279
well, thank you very much.
I can't wait for our little conversation.

307
00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:59.759
It's always exciting to talk with you
all, angel I mean, I really

308
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.880
can't I remember the last time I
actually got a chance to talk to you.

309
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:06.920
It was way back about last Saturday, wasn't it. Yeah, that

310
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:12.319
was. And just like the old
days for hours so and for long time

311
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:17.599
listeners, you were on the show
years ago. You were one of my

312
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:22.200
first guests, and on probably two
or three times a while ago, and

313
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.079
you were on in fact, and
you can tell me if this is true

314
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:32.480
or not. I was one of
the first, if not the first podcasters

315
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:37.279
to have you and your sister to
come on to talk about the thirty seventh

316
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.480
Parallel for which now there's a book
and a movie in the works and all

317
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:45.640
this cool stuff. Yeah, yeah, I think you were. I mean

318
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.279
it's it's pretty cool. You know, you're always right there at the cutting

319
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.599
edge of technology. So I can't
wait for you know, the next couple

320
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:55.960
of years what you're going to you
know, spring on people, you know,

321
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.799
some type of a holographic reality type
of a podcast. So yeah,

322
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.880
yeah, I can't wait. Holographic
reality cast. Yeah, well coming,

323
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:08.440
you bet, let's start working on
it. Yep, before you know it,

324
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.839
I'm going to be tapping on your
shoulder and saying hey, Chuck,

325
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:14.200
and you'll turn around and you'll be
like what, And I'll be like,

326
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:22.200
Hey, it's not really me.
This is a hologram. Whoa my Pajamason

327
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.519
or something. Yeah, I mean
it would be really embarrassing. That'll be

328
00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.440
pretty cool. So yeah, so
I think people will have to go way

329
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.400
back if they want to hear a
lot about the UFO net and thirty seventh

330
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.279
parallel, but we'll we'll touch on
a lot of that stuff. But we

331
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:44.960
were both recently in at Devil's Tower
together and but I guess let's get into

332
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:48.519
this thirty seventh parallel because that's kind
of some exciting stuff going on right now.

333
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:52.440
So you they wrote a book about
you, like, let us know

334
00:27:52.480 --> 00:28:00.119
about how you approached, what kind
of how they pitched the book and who

335
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.799
wrote it. Yeah, you know, that's it's really interesting. What happened

336
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:10.359
was was I did? I did
the first season just a small fifteen minute

337
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:15.319
segment on cattle mulations for The Science
Channel's Unexplained File season one, and towards

338
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:21.359
the end of my segment, I
sprung on this thirty seventh degree latitude theory

339
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:25.960
where you know, you have these
events that happened across the US, animal

340
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.440
mutilations and UFO sightings and and actually
you know Open Minds you know, played

341
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.880
a part of that too. Something
that you did, you know, with

342
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.960
the most popular states had or the
most states having or the states had the

343
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.799
most sightings. That's what it was. And so when it came around to

344
00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:47.200
season two, they called me and
said, hey, what's this thirty seventh

345
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:48.920
degree latitude thing? You know?
Do you have any data to back it

346
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:52.880
up? And I go, huh
do I? So I just kind of

347
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.759
like just jumped them just tons of
data on it, GPS coordinates, a

348
00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:59.599
whole bit. They were wing WHOA. They got back to me and said,

349
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.200
hey, would you actually mind doing
a full hour show? And I'm

350
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:07.200
going, what that's awesome, you
know, rather than a five minute segment

351
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.640
that we normally usually get. So
we sat down with them and talked about

352
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.480
the places we wanted to go or
what I wanted to go and what they

353
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.559
could do, and about a week
and a half of shooting, you know,

354
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:25.079
we had this you know, one
hour show. Actually it was usually

355
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:30.079
with the unexplained files, they the
one episode one hour is usually cut into

356
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:34.119
two segments covering two separate topics,
and so this was like one of their

357
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.680
first times where they had the whole
hour show was one topic. They're a

358
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.759
little larry at first, but you
know, once they realized how much was

359
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.039
involved and where would we be going, you know, ending up in the

360
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.119
area fifty one and some other nifty
things, they were really excited about it.

361
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.680
So, you know, we did
that and it aired, and I

362
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.720
think for a while there it was
number one. Matter of fact, it

363
00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:00.000
just aired not too long ago when
they even when they reruns, and this

364
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.799
was you know, we did this
a couple of years back. Uh,

365
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.720
that's one of the one of the
few or one of the selected episodes that

366
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.720
they always seem to want to do
a rerun on. And I always know

367
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.119
when it's a rerun because I get
tons of emails, Well, I guess

368
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:22.119
this. This movie executive from both
Flint from Flint Pictures Productions caught it on

369
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:26.680
TV, and Uh, he's always
wanted to do It's kind of funny.

370
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:32.240
I'd say this Close Encounters of the
Third kind type of movie as a kid,

371
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.319
and then once he got involved in
in movie productions, you know,

372
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.480
he thought, hey, this might
be reachable obviously not to the grandeur of

373
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:45.440
what the Steven Spielberg wan was.
But so he caught the you know,

374
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.400
he caught the episode. He went
to the website and he goes, hey,

375
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:52.079
you know, there's something here.
So then you know, they contacted

376
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.759
me. And I was contracting uh
at qualcomm over in San Diego because I

377
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:03.440
still work right and and I said, well, what, yeah, you

378
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.000
know, we're we're kicking around the
idea of maybe doing a movie or something

379
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.839
all this, you know on your
theory. The thirty seventh degree parallel because

380
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.240
it was thirty seventh degree latitude,
was actually what I did at press release

381
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.759
a few years ago on but when
Science Channel did it, it was called

382
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.480
the thirty seventh Parallel Paranormal Highway of
America, and they really liked that,

383
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.559
and so they said, well,
what we'd like to do is we're going

384
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.359
to commission a New York Times best
selling author Ben Mezrick, who's already read

385
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.640
a couple of books that went to
movies won I think was called The Accidental

386
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:41.799
Billionaire or about Facebook, and so
that was his book. And then there

387
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:44.119
was another one, I think it
was called Breaking the Bank or something about

388
00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:48.000
the MIT students. That went to
Vegas. Yeah, I want to see

389
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.279
that movie. So he, you
know, he's already done a couple of

390
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:53.440
you know, read a couple of
books ago with the movies. So basically

391
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:56.079
they contacted him and said, Hey, what we need you to do is

392
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:00.160
we need you to write a pitch, you know, for a movie slash

393
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:07.039
book, and we'll you know,
we'll try well, we'll you know,

394
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.200
market or sell this pitch and see
if another production company wants to pick it

395
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.400
up and see if that's something people
are interested in. So Ben Masick wrote

396
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:16.759
this, you know, I'm kind
of looking at it right now, you

397
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:21.680
know, like a thirty two page
transcript on three acts. You know.

398
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.519
The first act you know, introduces
me with you know, some type of

399
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:28.920
siding. The second act is kind
of like you know, what happens in

400
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.240
between, right, and the third
act kind of as a summary of what

401
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:38.200
happened. But anyway, so he
writes this, and here it's really interesting,

402
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:42.759
all handel because I'm working at Qualcomm
and I'm doing this while I'm working,

403
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:46.279
and I'm I'm in my office.
It's a shared office, so I

404
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:52.720
have to wait and and call Ben
Masick. I'm in California actually, I

405
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:55.880
live in Colorado. At the time, I was in California contracting Ben Masick's

406
00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:01.039
in Boston. So at lunchtime to
go out to my truck in the parking

407
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:04.680
lot and there was a parking structure
and I parked on top of the parking

408
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:08.359
structure and I was talking to him, and we're right near Mira Mars,

409
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:12.279
so you know, the jets are
going over, the helicopters and stuff.

410
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.799
So it was kind of interesting.
And and for the time I was there,

411
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:21.400
I was working with Ben Mezrick,
giving them information at my laptop on

412
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:25.039
my lap literally in my pickup truck, and we're going back and forth.

413
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:29.599
And this went back and forth for
about maybe you know, a month or

414
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:34.680
so, and I had enough information
to pitch this little story idea. Well.

415
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.279
So both Flynn got it, Yeah
from the pictures got it, and

416
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:39.720
they go, yeah, this is
pretty good. Okay, we're going to

417
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:45.000
pitch it out there and see if
another production company wants to pick it up.

418
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.839
And you know, you, you
know, you're really familiar with you

419
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:52.319
know, the movie business and TV
business. If you if anybody out there,

420
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:53.599
you know, when you when you
watch a movie at the movies at

421
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:59.079
the very end you'll see Sony or
Fox or you know, Warner Brothers whatever,

422
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:02.119
But then you'll see other production companies
too. So what they're doing now

423
00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.680
is, you know, rather than
one production company flipping the bill for everything,

424
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.400
they bring in other production companies to
help offset the expenses, and then

425
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:15.960
other and then other production companies may
have specialties and you know, in one

426
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.519
area where another one would have,
you know, a specialty in another area.

427
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:22.280
So you can kind of see this
collaboration if you stay and watch the

428
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.719
credits that you know, after you
know, you go to the movies.

429
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:29.800
So basically, say you went to
go pitch this, and even before they

430
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.840
had a chance to pitch it out
there to the industry New Line Cinema,

431
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.280
Warner Brothers, which is their parent
companies, says, you're not pitching that

432
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:39.880
we want this. And then they
called me back and said, hey,

433
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:44.960
uh, Warner Brothers wants this New
Line Cinema. Warner Brothers wants us.

434
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:50.480
I'm going what and and so they
go, Okay, Now the next step

435
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:53.599
is Ben Mezick has got to write
a book, so we could write a

436
00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:57.239
script from the book. And I'm
going, well, isn't that the cart

437
00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:00.599
before the horse? I thought you
always did a movie after a book was

438
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:05.800
out, just based on well,
this is an idea that bo Flynn wanted,

439
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:09.960
something he wanted to pursue, and
so he you know, he found

440
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:15.880
what he was looking for. So
he needed a writer, a very high

441
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:21.559
level writer, you know, to
write a book so then they can write

442
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:24.679
the script from the book. And
basically what it is is Ben does all

443
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:29.199
the all the work of putting everything
together in the book and you know,

444
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:31.840
all the reference material, everything's there, and then it's it's easier for a

445
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:37.280
screenwriter to take that and go from
there. So I went, okay,

446
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:42.159
So still in San Diego and for
the next few months, you know,

447
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.960
back in my truck at lunch time
and you know, talking to Bandon,

448
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:50.559
and we put all this information together
for a book. And the book came

449
00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:54.000
out. It's called A thirty seventh
Parallel. It came out last September sixth

450
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:59.360
in hardback form. They I don't
make any money from the book, just

451
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.800
to let you know, uh name
nothing. I'd make nothing from the book

452
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:08.400
because I signed a life rights contract
with New Line Cinema actually both Flint Pictures,

453
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:13.519
and then and then I had to
sign another one with Newline Cinema Warner

454
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.400
Brothers. So I don't I don't
make anything from the book, but I

455
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:20.440
looked at it this way, that
that there's a little bit of a legacy

456
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:23.360
there in the book because it's it's
about me, my family and even my

457
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:27.679
my my mom and dad are mentioned
in it, so you know, all

458
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.119
our real names. So it's a
little bit of a legacy there. I

459
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:31.760
thought, you know what, that's
kind of cool. Uh this guy,

460
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:36.880
Ben mezick is net worth is around
thirty five million dollars, so you know

461
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:39.719
he's yeah, he's just you know, he's not just one of those uh,

462
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:45.360
you know, fly by Night type
of writers, you know, writing

463
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.159
the trinting off. Well, they
should have shared some of that with you,

464
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:51.760
though. I mean, but I
guess you'll your thing is you'll make

465
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:55.360
money with the movie. How well, well, the thing is is,

466
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:00.119
you know, I've always loved j
Al and the Heinech in this scene the

467
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.360
very end of Close Encounters, and
when I when I when I, it's,

468
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.199
oh God, I gotta tell you. So this contract they send me,

469
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:09.800
this contract for my life rights,
and I'm going over it and said,

470
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.920
okay, I gotta I gotta talk
to a lawyer. I'm right here

471
00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:16.719
in California. It's the best place
right for you know, entertainment lawyers.

472
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:23.679
And so the deal is, if
if somebody picks it up anybody, I

473
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:28.519
get a two thousand dollar bonus.
If someone big picks it up, I

474
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:34.280
get a five thousand dollar bonus.
I'm going okay, you know. So,

475
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:39.400
so I start contacting attorneys in California
and they started off at thirty five

476
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:44.599
hundred dollars and one up. Just
so I'm going, oh my god,

477
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:46.679
if I got the two thousand dollars
bonus, if someone picked it up,

478
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:51.440
I'm out a thousand dollars. Yeah, if I got the five thousand,

479
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:54.440
and I'm only making like fifteen hundred
dollars. So you know me, Ala

480
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:58.639
Hanchel, you know, yeah,
I love to do research. I like

481
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:00.760
to get in there. And you
know, for for about two three weeks,

482
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:06.440
I was I was on the internet. I was looking searching all these

483
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:09.960
places, looking at movie contracts or
life flight contracts, seeing exactly and basically

484
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.159
I turned the contract three separate times
just on my own. I mean I

485
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:17.119
didn't have the money to do it
after that, you know, to pay

486
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:22.159
somebody. And so I made sure
that that I was a technical advisor.

487
00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:28.840
I made sure that I could still
do Unfortunately, they wouldn't let me have

488
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:34.079
my own TV show, but I
still in my in the contract, I'm

489
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:37.159
able to do spots, you know, do do episodes on other shows and

490
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.639
stuff, you know, something like
that, and still do the stuff that

491
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:45.840
I love to do with my website
and everybody else and conferences and and all

492
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:49.199
that. So I made sure that
was very clear, and they agreed.

493
00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:52.920
I'm going okay, and it's a
you know, it's a two year actually

494
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:57.280
a three year contract. So I
went ahead, and you know, we

495
00:38:57.320 --> 00:38:59.599
went through and sided. I had
to go to the Chase Bank and get

496
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:00.400
a noted, right, So I
mean, I'm doing all this myself.

497
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:06.079
And off we go. So,
like I said, I'm not making anything

498
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:12.039
from the book. But so what
Ben Mesick did is he flew me and

499
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.719
my wife out to Boston, uh
for the for the book release party.

500
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:20.360
It was that was really cool and
put us up at a really nice hotel

501
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.400
out there, and and we were
out in Boston for about four or five

502
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:27.159
days and and got to see Boston
and Salem and oh, you know,

503
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:30.400
I love going to Salem, you
know, so that was so cool yeah,

504
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:32.639
I've always heard Boston it's pretty cool. Oh, it is pretty cool.

505
00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:37.679
You know's so much history there as
opposed to more history there than opposed

506
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:40.360
to Colorado or you know, or
Arizona, because I mean everything was right

507
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:47.239
there, the Boston tea party and
just anyway. So so that's how that

508
00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:52.119
kind of went. And and so
the book came out, and the book

509
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.519
it was really really interesting because it's
a non fiction book and everything in the

510
00:39:55.519 --> 00:40:00.000
book, if anybody picks it up
out there, oh of July this year

511
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.719
or it went paperback, so you
can find you know, the thirty seventh

512
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:07.119
Parallel for you know, a third
the price that it was before, probably

513
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:12.960
far cheaper now. Yeah. So
it's funny because they had contacted me and

514
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:15.000
a couple of times to ask me
if I wanted to interview Ben, and

515
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:19.360
I thought, well, I don't
know what I would ask him, because

516
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:25.159
I've already interviewed you and your sister. Debbie's Eigelmeyer, who's your your your

517
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:30.119
paranormal research partner, so to speak. And so it's like, I just

518
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.719
don't know what i'd ask him because
I've already asked the source. You know.

519
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:37.480
Yeah, well, you know it's
it's pretty cool. I mean,

520
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:42.480
you still may want to talk to
him, because the neat thing is is

521
00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:46.440
he was brought up in a skeptic
family, and so he was a skeptic.

522
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:51.559
And not that you know, I'm
tooting my own horn. You know,

523
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.440
if it was, it would be
an aluga horn. But it's you

524
00:40:54.440 --> 00:41:00.719
know, it's just that Towards after
after he wrote the book and and and

525
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:07.119
he actually talked to a couple of
of my annimal mutilation ranchers, you know,

526
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:10.800
he interviewed them and and you know, to get some information from the

527
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:20.519
source. And then he he interviewed
a representative from Bigelow Aerospace because Bigelow is

528
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:27.280
a part of this book too.
That yeah, due to the the roswell

529
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:32.079
piece of metal that big ol Aerospace
uh uh, you know analyzed, well

530
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:37.559
started to analyze for me. And
you're getting choppy as you speak about it

531
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:40.880
because you you you're not you were
not happy with, to put it lately,

532
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:45.039
the work they did. Oh yeah, exactly exactly. We're go in

533
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:52.000
that later. But basically he became
a believer. It's really really interesting,

534
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:57.519
you know, he goes, oh
my god, yeah, and and really

535
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:04.400
really cool. So so the books
out there, and we got some really

536
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:08.320
really good reviews on it from actual
you know, professional reviewers liked it.

537
00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:14.559
Now Amazon are about three stars because
most people don't like the ending. Now,

538
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.559
most people that pick up a book, a non fiction book which is

539
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:22.360
based on real life scenarios, they
expect to see some type of ending.

540
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:29.159
But there's no ending to this book. Because I'm still alive. Let me

541
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:32.480
pinch myself. Yeah, I'm still
alive. I'm still doing investigations. We

542
00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:37.840
still haven't found you know, you
know, solid proof that you know,

543
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:42.079
aliens exist. We've got all kinds
of circumstantial evidence, but you know,

544
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:45.960
but nothing to go here. You
go done. And that's what people were

545
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:51.239
looking for. Other people. Other
people just just loved it. But you

546
00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:53.559
know, some of the people they
were expecting to see an ending. And

547
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:57.719
and when you get to the ending
book, it's it's really creative. What

548
00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:00.000
he did is the first time he's
ever done anything like this for an ending.

549
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:06.039
But it's almost like when you pick
up a piece of paper that Stanton

550
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:09.039
Freeman got from the archives, you
know, where there's information there, but

551
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:13.320
there's not information there. You kind
of read between the lines. He kind

552
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:16.880
of did something like that, and
the reviewers. The professional reviewers just loved

553
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:22.000
it because it was something that they
weren't expecting. But normal people that read

554
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:27.199
it, the ones that are into
afology, they get it. The ones

555
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:30.119
that picked it up because of our
ben measured fran we're kind of iffy.

556
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:34.039
So that's why we kind of got
like the three stars. So Amazon.

557
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.599
But so now the book's out there, New York Times picks it up and

558
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:42.000
they don't know what to do with
it. You know, there was they

559
00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:47.039
there was a review done by by
one of the science editors because they don't

560
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:51.239
know. And it's really it's really
sad. And this is why I really

561
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.800
like, you know, what you're
doing. All I had with the podcast

562
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:59.519
and the UFO Congress and getting the
information out to the public, and you

563
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:01.320
know, because we need more people
to wear. So now you have the

564
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:05.119
New York Times going, well,
what do I do with this? This

565
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:09.079
is this is a very very well
known writer. His publisher Simon and Schuster,

566
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:13.840
you know, so what do we
do with this? So they go,

567
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:15.960
well, you know, it's non
fiction, let's give it. They

568
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:21.000
don't have a UFO paranormal department,
so give it to the Science Center.

569
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.000
And a science guy reads it.
He goes, well, you know,

570
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:25.559
we're all great, we know we're
going to go with that. Philip,

571
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:31.360
Philip class just picked it up and
he's reading it, and and so it

572
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:37.239
bounced in the science section of the
New York Times best Selling for like two

573
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:44.079
months, so we got you know, so it's in essence, I'll say

574
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:46.400
it. It's a New York Times
best selling book for two months. But

575
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:52.440
you know that's that's better. So
it's better than nothing. They didn't know

576
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:57.480
where to put it. So while
that's going on, now we have New

577
00:44:57.559 --> 00:45:00.639
Line Cinema, Warner Brothers, and
Flint Pick Productions. We have three production

578
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:07.119
companies that are looking for a screenplay
writer to write the movie now that there's

579
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:10.960
a book, right, And and
I interviewed. Why I didn't interview,

580
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.159
but I got to talk with two
of the three. I didn't get to

581
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.639
talk to the third or the second
one. Actually the first one, the

582
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:19.760
second one did to get a chance
to talk to in the third one,

583
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.679
I did. And it took him. They were so particular about this.

584
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:30.599
It took him six months to to
get the writer, the writer that they

585
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:35.719
wanted to write the screenplay. And
I can't tell you his name, And

586
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:37.760
I don't know why. Maybe they're
waiting for the first draft should be done

587
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:42.199
within a couple of weeks. Actually, from what I told, the beginning

588
00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:45.039
of October sometime is the first draft, and then he's contracted for a second

589
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:50.239
draft because everybody makes changes. And
now you've got three movie studios that are

590
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:55.159
gonna make changes. Right, So
but okay, go ahead, No,

591
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:59.719
no, you're just gonna give us
something juicy. So I can tell you

592
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:05.920
this. The person who's writing this
screamplay has written for Robert de Niro,

593
00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:10.840
Matt Damon, and Robert Downey Jr. Okay, so you know it's not

594
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:14.440
like he wrote for Carrot Top or
anything like that. I mean, he's

595
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:19.320
wrote for some big name people.
So you know, he's not a slouch

596
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.119
out there, and he's a He
was a really cool guy. He started

597
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:25.400
writing just after Memorial Day. Matter
of fact, he wanted to meet me

598
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:31.800
and and and see my house and
meet my wife Tammy. So he lives

599
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:37.320
obviously in California. Over this,
you know, you you're kind of a

600
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.800
jokester. So maybe Carrot Top would
have been best. Yeah. I like

601
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.840
Carrot Top, you know, well, I don't know, he's had a

602
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:50.039
lot of plastic surgery late now he
is he looks like Shatner. Now,

603
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.000
well you know every time you get
those talks, you all look like Shatner.

604
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:59.960
But that's really cool that that's really
interesting. And so they'll probably add

605
00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:04.599
some drama, like they're gonna have
to figure out how to add some drama.

606
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:07.920
Of course in this arena when you're
looking into the paranormal, they always

607
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:13.719
add some fear. So are you
afraid of all of what they'll come up

608
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.360
with? I mean, we just
spent time with Travis Walton and of course

609
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.559
we know what they did with his
movie. Well, the nice thing about

610
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:25.360
the person that's writing it now,
uh, we we talked back and forth.

611
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.679
He kind of gave me his idea
what he wants to do, but

612
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:32.800
it's still kind of hush hush,
and then you know and really don't tell

613
00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:37.760
us. But the main thing is
is now obviously it's not gonna be like

614
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.880
the book. You know they're gonna
But then the neat thing is is all

615
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:44.320
the real all our names are gonna
be used. So my name, my

616
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:47.079
wife's name, so they're not gonna
be any pseudo names. Hopefully that's good.

617
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:53.320
Yeah, I mean that could be
okay. And and there's gonna and

618
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:58.880
some of the events in my life
will be featured in the movie, but

619
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:04.320
obviously will be amplified times one hundred, right, because you know this is

620
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:07.000
a movie. So I'm I'm guessing, you know, I just I was

621
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:09.519
joking with him. I said,
just do me a favor, you know,

622
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:14.559
somehow another get my characters like chase
down aliens and we get a big

623
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:19.400
five. You know, you know
they're an alien in the headlog. Yeah,

624
00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:21.559
really, I'm giving him a noogie
on the top of his head or

625
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.480
something. Yeah, that'd be great, you know, or something like that.

626
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:29.079
But but no, they're really serious
about this. And uh so he's

627
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:31.800
pretty happy. I talked to him. Uh every now and then, I'll

628
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:34.760
email me every a couple of weeks. I go, how's it going.

629
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:38.000
Is everything okay? Do you have
any questions? Well, let's add pods

630
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:40.639
for a second. I'm gonna have
to go to a break. Remind people

631
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:44.960
you're listening to kg r A.
Uh, if you're not listening to the

632
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.239
podcast. For podcasters, you're gonna
hear a little bit of music. And

633
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:51.320
for kg r A, we're gonna
go to commercial back break. We'll be

634
00:48:51.519 --> 00:50:07.000
right back with Chuck Sukowski. All
right, we are back. You're listening

635
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:12.840
to Open minds UFO Radio. I
am Alejandro Rojas and the guy on the

636
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.440
other side of the line is Chuck
e Z. That's what I like to

637
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:20.440
call you sometimes, you know,
that's what my sisters call me. Well,

638
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:22.599
and I want to touch on this
because you know, you talk about

639
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:27.320
all the movies a lot about your
family and they use the real names and

640
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:30.840
everything, and your family is so
into I wanted you to talk about a

641
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:35.920
little bit about you and Debbie in
the second I'll tell you what in particular,

642
00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:39.280
but how your family's really into this, because you know we haven't I

643
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:43.559
haven't had you on for I don't
know, it's probably been years since we've

644
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:46.519
done a podcast together. But since
then, you and your sister used to

645
00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:52.719
work together. But now two of
your other sisters are working in this field.

646
00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:55.760
One of them is working I think
on on staff for move On,

647
00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:01.800
Linda, and then that's your and
then another one is it Diane helps out.

648
00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:05.519
They were both at the symposium,
you know, right next to our

649
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:08.840
table, the move On symposium,
helping out. So yeah, you've got

650
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:13.719
this whole family affair thing going on. Oh you know, it's even deeper

651
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:17.039
than that, if anybody reads the
book. And we talked about this with

652
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:21.760
the family. My mom, when
she was a little girl, had a

653
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:25.480
siding. She lived in the little
town of Morenci in Arizona, and you

654
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:29.360
know, they didn't have a lot
of rooms in the house, you know,

655
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:34.880
bedrooms, because they you know,
my mom's family had three boys and

656
00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:37.519
three girls, and my mom ended
up having three boys and three girls.

657
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:43.039
That it's kind of interesting how that
planned out. But so my mom's sleeping

658
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:45.719
on a cot in a hallway near
my you know, her mom and dad's

659
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:51.159
bedroom, and a couple times at
night, you know, and this is

660
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.639
exactly what she says, you know
that you know, she saw these little

661
00:51:53.719 --> 00:52:00.599
people coming in. So the history
of ufology started with my mom and their

662
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:05.880
family. And then I interviewed my
aunt a few years ago and her sister

663
00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:10.920
obviously, and she had a siding. They were driving from from San Pedro,

664
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:17.679
California, to Arizona to a little
town called Safford. And you know,

665
00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:22.159
back in the day, there wasn't
any rest areas. There wasn't Interstate

666
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:25.079
ten, so I think they had
to take forty and what they used to

667
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:29.159
do, and I remember doing it
as a kid too, because you know,

668
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:31.199
my dad would drive. You get
tired, you pull off the side

669
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:35.719
of the road, but you'd pull
off the road into the desert. You

670
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.519
drive into the desert a little bit
and black out, you know, turn

671
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:42.440
all your lights off and stuff,
so you know, you don't have to

672
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:47.239
worry about any you know, any
no bat guys or anything like that.

673
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:51.840
So you kind of sneak off the
side that way. And the families used

674
00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:55.440
to sleep like that. I remember
doing it myself, so throughout the desert.

675
00:52:55.480 --> 00:53:00.880
They're in the California desert close to
the Arizona border, and my aunt,

676
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:05.440
you know, she's in the passenger
seeing her husband, my uncle Roy's

677
00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:07.800
and the driver, and then the
three kids are in the back and my

678
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:10.840
three cousins and she looks up.
Everybody's asleep in the car. And she

679
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:19.760
looks up and there's an alien staring
in the window right now. And when

680
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:23.519
did you learn this story? Recently? We actually started we learned something about

681
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:28.159
it when the whole family got together
back in two thousand and two and my

682
00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:32.039
dad passed away. Wow, and
we had everybody there and because everybody knew

683
00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:37.320
at that point that Debbie and I
were doing investigations, and so my aunt

684
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:38.880
Flora comes up to me and says, hey, Chuck, Hey Chuck,

685
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:44.000
you gotta gotta or my cousin floora
excuse me, you have to go talk

686
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:47.079
to you know, Anti Petrum.
She's got something to tell you. Oh

687
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:52.960
my god, are you kidding me? So now I have two women you

688
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:55.639
know that had you know, events, my mom and then her sister.

689
00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:02.000
So this started with them, and
what happened when she's alien. It's so

690
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:06.760
cute when she was telling me this
because she said she put her hands over

691
00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:09.199
her face and she said, I
covered my face, and I covered my

692
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:12.760
face, and then I looked again
and they were still there. And I

693
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.840
covered my face and she looked up
and there walking away. Now I can't

694
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:19.920
tell you. I mean I talked
to her about you know, missing time

695
00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:24.360
or anything like that, but at
that point she wouldn't have known if there

696
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:30.320
was missing time, because she just
remembers. She did say that. Right

697
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:32.519
afterwards, she fell asleep, which
I thought was really interesting. She didn't

698
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:37.039
stay up. I mean I would
have stayed up the whole night, just

699
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:43.599
freaked out. I would remember,
had to have changed my sleeping attire.

700
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:49.639
Yeah, so she does remember waking
up in the car with everybody else,

701
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:52.199
so at one point she did go
to sleep. I can't tell you if

702
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:54.920
there was any missing time, and
she can't tell me that either, but

703
00:54:55.039 --> 00:55:00.079
you know that was an experience.
So that out of six kids in my

704
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:02.599
family, Debbie and I, you
know, I started doing this first,

705
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:07.199
and then Debbie caught on a few
years later and started I've been doing like

706
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:09.079
I think she's been doing about twenty
years, and I've been doing it just

707
00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:13.760
over thirty thirty two years now.
And wasn't the case, if I remember

708
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:17.719
correctly, like you got a hold
of Debbie and you didn't even know she

709
00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:22.679
was doing the investigations, and then
all of a sudden she's part of mofon

710
00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:27.000
exactly. I didn't know all that. You know, she's living in Missouri.

711
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:31.679
I just moved out of California.
I was in Colorado, and I

712
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:37.280
was working on Roswell's stuff. You
know, that was my main focus in

713
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.519
California. And so I think I
contacted her and it was asking her about,

714
00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:45.519
oh, I have Joplin spooklightes or
something goofy like that, And as

715
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:49.840
it turned out, not only did
she know about it, she knew a

716
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.519
lot about it. I'm like,
what again. You know, it's funny

717
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:58.639
that you know your own sibling and
now it's different. People go, well,

718
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:00.960
that's kind of crazy because I'm like, oh, yeah, but we

719
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:04.559
didn't have Facebook, we didn't have
Twitter, we didn't have email. You

720
00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.159
know, we really all that was
was was was coming up in the nineties

721
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:12.920
and and it wasn't you know,
it wasn't as common as it is now.

722
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:15.480
We still had to write letters and
make phone calls and and there was

723
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:20.800
no texting, you know, it's
all different millennials. So we'll talked to

724
00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:22.320
her say, hey, you know
what, how would you like to work

725
00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:25.880
together with me on on Roswell?
And that's where we really started working on

726
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:30.920
Roswell together, and which was really
good idea too, because uh, you

727
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:35.639
know, I hate to say this, you know, but what's the what's

728
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:39.880
the nice way of saying? I
farmed up my my sister to help.

729
00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:47.199
Let's just call it what it is. You pimped her out out. I

730
00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:51.239
pimped her out. I mean no
sex involved, obviously, but I pimped

731
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:57.360
her out with to Walter and bait
for Walter Hat and Glenn Dennis the guys

732
00:56:57.400 --> 00:57:00.519
over to the museum. Uh,
they've already I've been there for a few

733
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:02.119
years. If anybody picks up the
book, you'll see a picture of me

734
00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:07.239
and my three kids, and you've
barely see my wife, but you'll see

735
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:10.599
we're standing in front of my motor
home. And so back in the day,

736
00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:15.119
I would take the motor home and
we go on vacation by wave Roswell

737
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:22.159
or by wave Aztec or by way
of towels and all these other places.

738
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:27.880
So I'm sure it's worked the other
way too, because you know, even

739
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:30.639
doing real estate or doing this sort
of thing. You know, it works

740
00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:37.480
with my girlfriend and I. Some
people tend to gravitate towards the man or

741
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:40.280
the woman, you know, and
and open up to one and not both.

742
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:46.679
So I'm sure some of your your
witnesses who are female kind of liked

743
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:52.400
opening up to you more than your
sister. Absolutely. And sometimes I come

744
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:58.360
and you know this, I come
across a little strong sometimes, so you

745
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:01.039
do know that. So, uh, and Debbie's not different. We have

746
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:05.519
two different personalities. I'm I'm a
little you know, she's a little bit

747
00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:07.239
country. I'm a lot of bit
rock and roll. That's that's kind of

748
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:12.199
usually how we do it, and
so it's really easy. She got us,

749
00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:17.119
you know, into Glenn Dennis's office
and and and we chatted and ultimately

750
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:22.119
we we got a hold of GPS
coordinates to uh, you know, to

751
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:25.119
where the debris side is and GPS
cordinates to the Jim Ragsdale's side, and

752
00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:28.760
and and off we went, you
know, I mean, right after we

753
00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:30.039
got to coordinates, it was the
next day, We're in my jeep and

754
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:34.400
off we went. I mean,
it was that quick. And it's been

755
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:37.400
that way ever since. So it's
a lot of fun. Uh. Now,

756
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:42.800
my other two sisters, my sister
Linda's the oldest sister, Diane is

757
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:45.480
the third, so Debbie's in between
the two, she's the second, and

758
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:49.559
it's me and then I have a
brother Andy and then a brother Ron.

759
00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:57.079
And I think what happened is because
as siblings go, my sister and I

760
00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:01.679
were getting a lot of attention the
aufology, and the other two sisters going,

761
00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:06.119
well, we want some you know, we want to know what's going

762
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:10.239
on too. Better be careful because
they might listen to this. Linda is

763
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:15.119
on my Facebook a lot, and
and from what I understand, at least

764
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:21.639
when you're younger she's not afraid to
Oh god, she still isn't. I'm

765
00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:24.639
afraid of her around a little.
She's got it. I love obviously.

766
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:29.840
I love my sisters, you know, all three of them. So I

767
00:59:29.880 --> 00:59:32.320
think what happened with Linda and Diane, yea, Linda was the first.

768
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.519
She likes to get involved, and
it's you know, she saw Debbie and

769
00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:39.679
I were doing the UFO stuff and
she was intrigued with it. So she

770
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:44.039
got involved and one thing led to
another, and you know, she's working

771
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:50.079
for mof on and then she I
think Diane was already sort of getting involved

772
00:59:50.119 --> 00:59:53.239
because at that point what was happening
was, you know, Debbie would go

773
00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:58.840
to the move on some posiums in
California, and when she was there or

774
00:59:58.960 --> 01:00:01.119
or or the meetings, and when
she was there, she would visit,

775
01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:06.000
you know, the family, and
so that kind of it kind of sparked

776
01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:08.559
her interest and they got more and
more involved in that, and I think

777
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:12.440
that's what happens. I always like
to think that that there's a little bit

778
01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:15.039
of jealousy there because they wanted to
be with you know, with their brother.

779
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:19.480
Well it was funny because in Roswell, you know, you were like,

780
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:21.960
oh no, my sisters are here, because you know, just this

781
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:25.159
last year we were all speaking for
the paper and Linda was like, oh,

782
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:28.960
he's just worried I'm gonna bossom around, and you were like, yep,

783
01:00:29.079 --> 01:00:34.079
exactly exactly. But she's she's doing
well, she's learning. I mean,

784
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:38.960
just today there was this story and
unfortunately one of our fellow researchers,

785
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:43.519
I guess i'll just use his name, Michael Salah. Unfortunately he's he's very

786
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:46.360
loose in the way he researches,
I feel, and he speculates a lot.

787
01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:52.639
And recently he's posted these pictures of
what to me clearly looked like balloons

788
01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:54.840
and said, oh, these are
evidence that the Air Force is working with

789
01:00:55.320 --> 01:01:02.440
aliens because these these sightings quote unquote
were over McGill Air Force Base, and

790
01:01:04.119 --> 01:01:08.119
so mcgil made fun of these,
this comment that he was making, and

791
01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:12.719
one of the local papers wrote about
it, and your sister looked at the

792
01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:15.760
images and one of them, she
said, that looks like a solar balloon,

793
01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:20.320
because there's these big you're probably familiar, but these big, long balloons

794
01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:24.280
that sometimes that you fill up with
air and actually the heat from the sun

795
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:28.480
heats them up and they float and
that's why they're called solar balloons, and

796
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:31.719
they often get mistaken for UFOs.
And she's exactly right. I think she's

797
01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:35.960
exactly right. And I was like, wow, Linda's you know, getting

798
01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:40.199
to know her stuff. She is
getting to and it's it's really cool to

799
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:45.480
see that too, because you know, I can I can have conversations with

800
01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:49.480
both all three of my sisters.
You know, Debbie obviously is the expert,

801
01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:52.519
but you know, it's we can
all sit down together and we did

802
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:55.440
it Roswell, you know, we
would have drinks afterwards, and we talked

803
01:01:55.440 --> 01:02:00.360
to UFO stuff and it was so
cool that I could talk to UFO stuff

804
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:04.519
with my three sisters and they all
knew and they can all relate and they

805
01:02:04.519 --> 01:02:07.880
can always and not only that,
but they can add stuff too, which

806
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:10.559
was even more you know, cool, rather than just said it going uh

807
01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:15.599
huh, well it's cool too,
because you know, Linda is she's in

808
01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:21.519
California working with headquarters of moufon.
Debbie is on the board, the business

809
01:02:21.559 --> 01:02:24.519
board, and she's a state director
in Missouri. And then there's you,

810
01:02:24.519 --> 01:02:29.559
you know, work in the field
and Roswell and Colorado and then working with

811
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:34.119
Ben and on your book and everything. So you all have these different areas

812
01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:37.400
you live in, and I think
Diane's out here in Arizona, right,

813
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:42.719
No, she's in California also.
Okay, so you're all in these different

814
01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:45.119
areas, so you all are seeing
different things and can share all this stuff.

815
01:02:45.639 --> 01:02:52.079
Yeah. Oh, I'm also a
director of animal mutilation investigations from moof

816
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:54.320
on time. Oh I forgot now, Debbie, Debbie wrote me into that

817
01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:58.000
one. But it's okay. You
know, I'm more of a consultant.

818
01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:06.719
Cattle mulation investigations or cattle mutilations are
probably one of the scariest investigations that I

819
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:10.440
ever do or think. Well,
yeah, you obviously know that, and

820
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:15.360
and knowing it firsthand, you know
that that when you walk in on an

821
01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:19.639
animal, you really don't know how
it died. You really really don't.

822
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:22.599
I mean, you know, there's
there's always that thought behind that it could

823
01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:25.119
be a virus and now you know, now you're going to be infected with

824
01:03:25.159 --> 01:03:30.480
the virus or or something else,
right, or some type of bacteria or

825
01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:34.840
something we don't know about. And
then I mean just natural stuff. Okay,

826
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:37.480
now you say you pull out all
the side and go okay, here

827
01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:40.480
this animal died, but now we
don't know how it died because it died

828
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:45.800
by an unknown entity, So how
did they kill it? Now you got

829
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:49.000
to worry about that too. So
one of the things that you know,

830
01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:52.679
and even today when I talk to
people, that's I always say, you

831
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:57.440
know, as as a director of
Animal Mulation Investigations REMUFA, when I talk

832
01:03:57.480 --> 01:03:59.960
to anybody, goes, oh,
I want to do that. Oh that's

833
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:04.440
a lot of fun. I'm going
you know, you uh, it's just

834
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:08.639
not as fun as going out looking
for lights. This is you know,

835
01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:13.639
there's there's a lot of there's a
lot of uh pre training, a lot

836
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:16.440
of research, a lot of prep
work first before you do your first one,

837
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:19.360
or you'll just muck it up,
or you'll muck yourself up or something

838
01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:24.079
or or or you'll make a full
of yourself to the rancher and and and

839
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:29.559
that'll be it. Because animal mutilation, it's it's it's really cool and and

840
01:04:29.679 --> 01:04:33.280
really it's any type of of it's
all different types of UFO investigations, especially

841
01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:36.960
craft sightings. You really have to
earn the respect of the of the witness,

842
01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:43.079
you really do. And we don't
get a lot of the good stuff,

843
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:45.079
you know, they don't get called
in. Uh, it's word of

844
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:47.880
mouth. You know, you hear
this, you hear that. And then

845
01:04:47.880 --> 01:04:53.320
if you have a contact somewhere,
the contact's gonna call you or contact you

846
01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:56.679
somehow, and it's uh. And
and because you've already got that little bit

847
01:04:56.679 --> 01:04:59.800
of respect. And then just by
the word of one and it's happened a

848
01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:02.719
couple times, just because one rancher
said, hey, this guy is on

849
01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:06.320
the level I give you. You
know, you've got my word. That's

850
01:05:06.360 --> 01:05:10.639
all it takes. Because these are
ranchers, these are cowboys. You know,

851
01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:13.519
they don't need sign on the dot
line. They say, you know,

852
01:05:13.639 --> 01:05:15.480
hey, you know, a handshake
and you're good to go. It's

853
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:19.360
really, really cool. One of
one of my most favorite types of investigations

854
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:25.360
because you're you're working with rural America. You're right out there, and you

855
01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:28.519
know, who knew I'd be sitting
there walking through cattle, you know,

856
01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:33.480
walking through cattle ranches and walking through
the herd and and of course avoiding the

857
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:36.719
bulls. But you know I was
a city boy. Yeah, well that's

858
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:42.239
what was fun. Because of course
we did that one early one together and

859
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:46.559
I learned very quickly because of that
smell. I didn't want to do this

860
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:50.119
anymore. I mean, it was
it was hard to be by the animal,

861
01:05:50.199 --> 01:05:56.000
But like you said, working with
the ranchers was incredible because you know,

862
01:05:56.119 --> 01:06:00.559
you got to see get really the
sense of wonder that they had,

863
01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:05.000
and they got to share their experience
and how you know, they see dead

864
01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:10.000
animals all the time, but when
they're really scratching their head and then the

865
01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:13.679
neighbors are coming by and saying,
hey, what are you guys doing out

866
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:15.960
here, and you know, we're
explaining and they're saying, oh, we've

867
01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:17.840
got these two weirdos out here.
I want to look at my dead cow.

868
01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:23.000
But you know, but they're saying, you know, and they're explaining

869
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:26.519
that, yeah, we don't know
how the hell that thing's got is dead

870
01:06:26.559 --> 01:06:31.079
either, because there are other ranchers
who also experienced it. So it's crazy

871
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:36.719
part. Yeah. I mean twenty
sixteen, you know, northwestern part of

872
01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:41.920
Colorado. In July, we had
an animal mulation in Nevada, and August

873
01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:45.000
we had two of them in the
same ranch, twenty fifth and thirty first.

874
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.599
In September of twenty eighth, we
had four in Wisconsin. That's you

875
01:06:49.679 --> 01:06:55.239
know, that's just the ones that
I dealt with, and for everyone that

876
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:59.440
I hear about, usually the rancher
tells us about other things. The Wisconsin

877
01:06:59.480 --> 01:07:02.960
one lights were seeing, and then
Nevada one lights were seeing. Lights were

878
01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:08.519
seen in Nevada one a year before
and then and then a week afterwards in

879
01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:13.599
the Wisconsin one where I got to
work on on on two of the four.

880
01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:15.840
That's why I say possibly four,
because the other two kind of mimicked

881
01:07:16.280 --> 01:07:21.639
the you know, mimic the first
two. But lights were seeing in that

882
01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:28.679
area a week afterwards. And then
this year we've had as far as I

883
01:07:28.760 --> 01:07:31.280
know, it's been kind of slow
for animal mulations. We had an animal

884
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:39.159
mulation in in Arizona near Mobile,
Arizona, and uh, other than that,

885
01:07:39.199 --> 01:07:43.519
it's been some bigfoot sightings and ghosts
investigations and stuff like that. So

886
01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:46.840
this isn't this isn't something that's that's
going away. It's it's still out there.

887
01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:50.719
And uh, God is so exciting
too when you when you have to

888
01:07:50.719 --> 01:07:53.960
deal with it. Oh, I
gotta tell you real quick, I know,

889
01:07:54.920 --> 01:08:00.679
a real quick. The cattle mutilation
in Wiscon Uh, the first remulation,

890
01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:03.480
the lady called the company to pick
it up, pick up the carcass

891
01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:08.440
to move it to get out,
and she went out the next day and

892
01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:12.000
the animal was gone, and they
go cool. And so she called them

893
01:08:12.039 --> 01:08:14.280
up because I said, Okay,
where'd you take it? Because I want

894
01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:16.319
to call them and I want them
to see if they've ever seen an animal

895
01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:19.680
like that, did that had all
these strange cuts. She calls them up

896
01:08:19.720 --> 01:08:23.880
and they said, no, we
didn't pick up the animal because when the

897
01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:28.640
driver went buying saw what the animal
looked like, it looked biological like maybe

898
01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:32.000
there was biological cuts and stuff,
and they won't they and they thought they

899
01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:36.399
deemed it as a hazard, so
they didn't picked it up. Yet somebody

900
01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:42.079
picked up that animal, wow,
and took it. Yeah, that's really

901
01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:46.119
weird. So that's a good one. So when is a movie? When

902
01:08:46.119 --> 01:08:50.399
do you think the movie might be
coming out? Well, obviously we need

903
01:08:50.439 --> 01:08:55.399
to screen screenplay first, so you
know, once we get the screenplay out,

904
01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:58.399
they've already had a couple of actors
that have been following this now for

905
01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:01.479
about a year, a couple of
acts for you, yeah, well for

906
01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:04.800
me or for parts in the in
the in the movie, and and I'm

907
01:09:05.319 --> 01:09:08.960
and I'll just give you I'll just
give you a hint. And the reason

908
01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:17.000
now it's actually no, he's gone
uh actually uh, it's the guy who

909
01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:23.680
plays Iron Man, Robert. Yeah, he's interested in it. And the

910
01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:26.880
only reason why I can and the
only reason why I can tell you that

911
01:09:26.960 --> 01:09:30.319
is because USA Today broke the you
know, broke that news, you know,

912
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:35.840
earlier this year. So maybe Gwyneth
Paltrow will play Debbie. Well,

913
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:40.119
you know, I don't know.
I basically he's just interested in it from

914
01:09:40.159 --> 01:09:44.119
what from uh you know, but
it's just like you get some actors that

915
01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:48.079
are just interested in the roles and
and it's just from what I hear is

916
01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:51.760
like you know, they've contacted the
studio say yeah, that's kind of cool

917
01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:56.159
concept. You let us know when
you know, you get a screenplay and

918
01:09:56.199 --> 01:09:59.159
we'll grab a screenplay, look at
it or whatever. I mean. Now,

919
01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:01.800
that's been a couple couple of months
ago, and last I last I

920
01:10:01.880 --> 01:10:05.880
heard in May is with you know
that he was still interested in it.

921
01:10:06.399 --> 01:10:11.840
But you know, you could be
interested in a couple of different areas of

922
01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:15.560
the movie too, you know,
but it's kind of cool. It's yeah,

923
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:19.520
very cool. Well, you'll have
to stay in touch, you know,

924
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:25.960
we'll have to have you on and
get some updates and have you back

925
01:10:26.000 --> 01:10:29.560
in a not too distant future and
hopefully we'll see each other again too.

926
01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:34.399
And it's always fun hanging out and
what we've been working together for. Probably

927
01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:38.600
has it been maybe fifteen years?
You think? Yeah, you know,

928
01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:41.760
little Buddy's still popping up out there. I go back and check it every

929
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:44.920
time I'm over there. I stop
and talking. One of our excitings we

930
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:47.560
worked in in south Park. Yeah, in south Park, Yeah, one

931
01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:54.479
of your favorite shows too, Yeah, because it has aliens. Yeah.

932
01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:57.520
All right, Well, thanks for
being on the show again, and it's

933
01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:01.359
always good talking to you and it's
really excited. Congratulations. Hey, well,

934
01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:03.279
thank you very much, and for
your listeners out there, if you

935
01:11:03.279 --> 01:11:08.560
have any questions, go to UFO
Nuts dot com and just email me.

936
01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:12.399
It's just one of those things that
I was called at the very beginning to

937
01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:15.800
call me nuts. I just decided
to roll with it and make a web

938
01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:18.640
page and just go there and I'll
answer any questions. All right, Thanks,

939
01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:23.359
Hey, thanks a lot, are
all right? Thank you so much

940
01:11:23.479 --> 01:11:27.520
to Chuck e Z for being on
the show, the original UFO Nut,

941
01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:30.000
or at least in the UFO Nut. Yep, you can visit him at

942
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:33.520
UFO nut dot com. And you
know what's kind of helpful for the rest

943
01:11:33.560 --> 01:11:36.159
of us, because if someone says, man, you just know the bud

944
01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:40.079
uillphone Nut, you could be like, no, I'm not ufone nut.

945
01:11:40.199 --> 01:11:45.760
Chuck is the UFO Nut. So
thank you for that service you provide us.

946
01:11:45.199 --> 01:11:49.680
Charles. Anyway, Chuck is a
great guy. It's great to be

947
01:11:49.720 --> 01:11:55.039
able to catch up with him.
We'll have Debbie's egomeyer on and then not

948
01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:59.720
too distant future. She had some
great stuff to say at Devil's Tower,

949
01:11:59.800 --> 01:12:04.399
some really interesting cases that she covered. So a wonderful family, the Zukowskis.

950
01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:09.600
So if you see him online,
they're on my Facebook periodically say hi.

951
01:12:09.640 --> 01:12:14.840
There's a number of them out there, as we discussed. So also

952
01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:18.319
look out for the book. It
is called thirty seventh Parallel and written by

953
01:12:18.359 --> 01:12:24.680
Ben Mezricks. You can find that
at your local bookstore. Really interesting stuff.

954
01:12:24.720 --> 01:12:26.880
We'll have to watch out for the
movie. How cool will that be

955
01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:32.319
if Robert Downey Junior is playing him? Wild Man, really wacky wild stuff.

956
01:12:33.039 --> 01:12:39.199
Otherwise, the UFO Congress, we
have a bunch of new people listed,

957
01:12:39.239 --> 01:12:41.840
so you've got to check that out. Really really cool stuff that I

958
01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:45.479
think you're gonna love. Also,
we have Michael Carter, by the way,

959
01:12:45.520 --> 01:12:46.520
someone we've had on quite a bit. It's a lot of fun.

960
01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:49.640
He's gonna be speaking, but many
others, so you'll have to check that

961
01:12:49.720 --> 01:12:54.640
out. It's updated on a regular
basis. There's only a week left to

962
01:12:54.680 --> 01:12:58.880
get the super early bird discount.
That is the cheapest you'll be able to

963
01:12:58.880 --> 01:13:02.600
get tickets at the entire year,
So go online, go to Ufocongress dot

964
01:13:02.640 --> 01:13:06.439
com right now and go get tickets. Otherwise, we have a lot of

965
01:13:06.600 --> 01:13:12.680
really cool stories at Openminds dot tv
right now on Spielberg, on Nick Popen

966
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:18.880
and the UK's most incredible UFO photo. Oh, really good stuff. And

967
01:13:18.920 --> 01:13:21.800
then I wrote one today on Mark
D'Antonio. You know, we talked about

968
01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:26.279
that earlier in the show. So
everything that Martin I and I talked about

969
01:13:26.319 --> 01:13:31.520
you can find it openminds dot tv. Be sure to patronize also Martin Show

970
01:13:32.079 --> 01:13:36.359
UFO podcast. Thank you Martin for
being on the show. And at UFO

971
01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:41.079
Congress dot tv or open Minds dot
tv you can watch the videos on demand.

972
01:13:41.119 --> 01:13:45.079
Now you can watch videos for free, so tons hundreds, literally over

973
01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:49.279
one hundred UFO lectures from some people
you'll never ever see again because they've either

974
01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:54.079
passed or they just don't do UFO
lectures, so you'll be able to check

975
01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:59.319
that out at ufocongress dot com as
well. I also want to thank the

976
01:13:59.319 --> 01:14:02.319
people who do music, so Caleb
Hanks with the opening and close music and

977
01:14:02.520 --> 01:14:08.840
Systematics. What a cool name they
do that Bumper music. And i've played

978
01:14:08.880 --> 01:14:13.720
their music before, really really cool
stuff. Systematics is what they're called,

979
01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:16.880
So thank you to those who have
donated music. Otherwise, I want to

980
01:14:17.039 --> 01:14:23.720
think, of course, the most
important people of all the listeners, that

981
01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:27.159
is you. Thank you so much
for joining me every week. And guess

982
01:14:27.159 --> 01:14:30.920
what, we're gonna have a show
next week too. So I know we

983
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:33.159
had to miss a show because I
was at the Devil's Tower, but you

984
01:14:33.199 --> 01:14:39.439
know, lots of really cool stuff
resulted from that, so please please forgive

985
01:14:39.479 --> 01:14:43.319
me. That is it for this
week. We'll talk to you soon.

986
01:14:43.640 --> 01:15:35.880
Until next time, Audios moved chuchos, you must