WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:11.240 This is Pod Popular Podcast for the People, the Great Love Debate. It's 2 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:17.679 the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate. 3 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:22.640 Hi again everyone, It's Brian Howie. Welcome to The Great Love Debate, 4 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:27.120 the world's number one dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I am 5 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:32.880 here in the very fine studios of Pod Popular Podcasts for the People. I 6 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:37.200 was initially going to record this at the brand new one in Vegas. Is 7 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.039 a little too echoey. It's not quite done. It will be done in 8 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.240 a few weeks and I will record there and it'll all be fine. It's 9 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:47.280 a beautiful studio. But I'm here at the one in Scottsdale's very early in 10 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:51.079 the morning, in the gloaming. As they say, maybe the gloaming might 11 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:55.439 be twilight, but it's pre dawn. So before I get into what I 12 00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:00.520 want to get into, one weird little Apple podcast quirk that people have asked 13 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:03.000 me about when it comes to podcasting. About a month or so ago, 14 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:11.239 they stopped automatically downloading episodes if you have not listened to one in a few 15 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:12.599 weeks. They kind of stopped that, And it used to be that once 16 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:15.519 you picked up again and you listen to an episode, it would automatically download 17 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:18.920 all the all ones and it'd be like, oh, you're back. It's 18 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:23.359 not working like that anymore. So if you are a sporadic listener, you 19 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:26.560 might have to go back and manually download, which you should and you should 20 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:29.439 not be a sporadic listener. But I'm just saying you might be missing some 21 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:34.040 episodes, and you never want to listen miss any episodes, So if you 22 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:37.959 listen regularly, you want to have this problem. So anyway, speaking of 23 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:47.159 problems, my friend Tom text me some complaint about him and his golf buddies 24 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:55.519 and how they were all bitching about the henpecking disconnected on amorous state of their 25 00:01:55.640 --> 00:02:00.000 marriages, and he says to me, this is what you working so hard 26 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:06.319 to get people into. Unhappy relationships are really the outcome of your efforts, 27 00:02:07.199 --> 00:02:13.319 meaning the Great Love Debate. And I was like, Tom, we thank 28 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:16.000 you for your service, We're sorry for your loss, but no, I 29 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:23.639 don't believe the outcome of any of our Great Love Debate doings is unhappy relationships. 30 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:29.680 We hope that the outcome is relationships, and what you do with and 31 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:35.319 within those relationships determines whether or not, you're happy. You're on your own 32 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:38.439 once you're in a relationship. So I'll get to the how and what of 33 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:43.639 that in a second. But he did have a point. And I say 34 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.680 this as someone who has never been married, though it's very very early to 35 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:53.199 day is not over, but as someone who's had a fair amount of long 36 00:02:53.439 --> 00:03:01.639 lasting, healthy relationships and more than a few really bad and toxic and unhappy 37 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:07.759 ones. Basically, what I'm getting at is, I can't believe, even 38 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:13.080 though I've been one of those people, how many people stay in relationships, 39 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:23.319 especially marriages, for months, years, decades with not only very little lover 40 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:29.639 affection for their partner, but open disdain, even flat out contempt. They 41 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:32.520 don't even hide it or pretend otherwise. They don't hide it from each other. 42 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:37.719 They don't hide it from their friends and neighbors. They don't hid it 43 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:39.800 from strangers at the grocery store, and they don't even hide it from their 44 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:46.520 kids. They are trapped together doing hard time, and I see it all 45 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.680 the time. So every once in a while, I'm I'm in a soccer 46 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:55.000 game, or a networking function or a musical performance, and I will see 47 00:03:55.039 --> 00:04:02.240 the parents and two things I will notice the weird sexual energy between people who 48 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:05.919 are not married to each other. Jim, you're looking good. Have you 49 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:11.800 been working out? Hey? Kelly Ashley played really great. All your hard 50 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:15.520 work with her seems to be paying off. That weird little banter that's really 51 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:23.600 not about anything. The cordial comments and the positivity leading up to some sort 52 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:29.160 of potential adultery. That's what's going on at these games. So I always 53 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:34.639 noticed that part of it. But the other part, the people who are 54 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:39.600 together are supposed to be Can you just grab her coat from the car? 55 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:44.879 Why are you letting him eat that? This isn't about the struggle of parenting, 56 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:49.040 which I grant you is absolutely an impossible and thankless task. Now, 57 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:56.319 this is about a partnership broken down and dead in the water. And I've 58 00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:01.360 said many times that when you go from boyfriend, girlfriend and to husband wife 59 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:08.079 it's a different dynamic. But going from husband wife to mom and dad is 60 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:12.560 a different planet altogether, and very little of the atmosphere on that planet is 61 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.079 about anything that brought you together in the first place. So what is keeping 62 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:23.680 you together and why and if it should at all. That's what I want 63 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:27.680 to take a deep dive on, mostly for the married folks out there, 64 00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:30.199 but lessons learned for all of us. And again I'm not here to necessarily 65 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:33.360 give you the answers, but I do have to raise the questions, and 66 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:38.759 in raising questions, perhaps all of us, the married and the want to 67 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:43.920 be married among us, can get somewhere. So don't go anywhere. Got 68 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:47.639 to take a quick break, So so let's stay together. We'll be back 69 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:56.720 right after this. And we are back, and right before the break, 70 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:00.519 I said, let's stay together, and I unintentionally trigger thoughts of the al 71 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:06.120 Green song in my head, loving you weather times are good or bad, 72 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:09.360 happier, so you know the song. Maybe I should have stayed in the 73 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:14.720 Vegas studio with the echoes. Maybe that would sounded better. And I get 74 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.199 that those are the fundamental tenets of a relationship and especially a marriage. And 75 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:21.759 we brought it up in the episode we did it a month or two ago 76 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:27.560 about wedding vows, where it was about sickness and in health, et cetera, 77 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:33.000 et cetera. But I think those are more about physical maladies or collective 78 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:40.000 life challenges that you can and should take on as a couple within the framework 79 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:47.120 and strength of a partnership. But what about when you simply grow apart or 80 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:58.319 change your perspective, or you or her or him simply change who you are, 81 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:05.279 what you want, what you need, and you've changed that initial attraction 82 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:12.480 and whatever it was that brought you together, it turns into this toxic stew 83 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:19.000 of resentment and anger and flat out hate. Than what why are you sticking 84 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:25.680 it out? It's very rarely when I see this or I inquire about this, 85 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.600 when it gets to this point is the answer. We're trying to work 86 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:35.160 through some things. More likely it's somewhere in the ballpark of I'm trying to 87 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:42.800 ignore some things. We are getting by despite those things. And I'm always 88 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:48.279 like, why why Tom and the golf buddies who no longer love their wives? 89 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:54.720 Why is it convenience? I don't know, doesn't seem very convenient sleep 90 00:07:54.720 --> 00:08:01.839 in separate rooms not to me? Or do you have what is colloquially colloquially 91 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:07.600 colloquially known as hallway sex? You pass each other in the hallway and say, 92 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:13.000 fuck you? So are you together because of the kids? I mean, 93 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:20.240 I get that a little. Logistically, financially, you know, there's 94 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.920 a chance you can hide the hatred from the kids, and you don't want 95 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:26.720 to break up, at least the illusion of the family. I get that. 96 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:31.120 I understand that, And I also get that a lot of you don't 97 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:35.399 want to be divorced, not once, not twice because you feel there's some 98 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:39.679 stigma of failure that you perceive to be associated with that. I understand that 99 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:45.639 too, valid. I don't know if there are reasons or excuses or what, 100 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.360 but I'll just say points taken. But let's put those points aside for 101 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:58.559 a second. You can have many loves in your life. You know, 102 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.120 obviously you want one great last, forever and ever, but you can have 103 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:07.399 many. But you only get so many time periods, so many decades. 104 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:16.600 So you want to throw away your twenties on that asshole, and you want 105 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.480 to miss out on your thirties because you were with her or him, but 106 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.360 you're busy finding yourself or she was busy finding herself, or he was busy 107 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:31.080 finding herself. Do you want that? Do you want your forties and fifties 108 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:37.639 some of the last best windows of opportunity to pass you by, while well, 109 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.559 he sits in the basement playing video games and downloading porn, or she's 110 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:46.600 spending her night in the Twins bedroom, barely acknowledging your existence. Is that 111 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:54.120 what you want? Because that's not the love that was described in the brochure, 112 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:00.679 and that is that is not what I believe we are meaning me, 113 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:07.720 you and this show on the quest to find and to have and to grow. 114 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.559 So why do I bring all this up? I bring this up because 115 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.440 I see it all the time and I don't get why it has become the 116 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:20.279 normal you've heard me on this podcast. I always say that when somebody gets 117 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:26.200 divorced, finally, I don't ask them when they knew they were going to 118 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.879 get divorced. I asked them when did they knew that it wasn't going to 119 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.600 last a long long time. And the answer to that is very scary. 120 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:35.600 It's always like when he asked me the honeymoon, the wedding days, very 121 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.960 early on, and then this divorce happens ten to fifteen years later. So 122 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:41.320 props to trying to work it out. But I don't think you're trying to 123 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:45.159 work it out at that point. I think you're sticking it out. And 124 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:48.919 there's a big, big difference. You know, my friend Tom and his 125 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.080 friends, they thought I was the weirdo and I am the weirdo for believing 126 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:56.679 in something different. They're like, oh, you have no idea what it's 127 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:01.759 like. Maybe I don't. Again, I'm not a husband, I'm definitely 128 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:09.559 not a dad. But those things should naturally equate, shouldn't equate with and 129 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:13.600 they do equate for a lot of people with unhappiness or a broken down partnership. 130 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:18.279 That's what marriage means to a lot of people. That's why a lot 131 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.919 of divorce people, when they get out of it, they don't want to 132 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:22.679 be part of getting back into it again. They don't want to get back 133 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:28.879 on that ride. So there are millions of examples of it working positively, 134 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.759 healthy, happy, and there's probably one hundred different paths to get there, 135 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:39.080 and we give you a few dozen of them. So I think what I'm 136 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:43.799 getting at is that I don't know why it has become such an accepted reality. 137 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:48.840 Jennifer and John have been married for seventeen years and they have two kids. 138 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:54.679 Well, that doesn't tell me anything about their relationship because it shouldn't be 139 00:11:54.679 --> 00:12:03.120 defined by the longevity or the offspring. It should be I would hope something 140 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:05.399 like, no matter how long they've been together, they still have a date 141 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:13.639 night every Friday night. Excuse me. My grandparents had that, My mom's 142 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:18.200 parents had that, And you can say, well, that was a different 143 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:22.759 time and women didn't speak up as much, and maybe all the grandma's needs 144 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.200 weren't really being met and they just kind of went along with it. Maybe, 145 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:31.759 but they had that date night, and I think if they didn't have 146 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.559 what I think they did have, they wouldn't have had that, because to 147 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:39.399 me, it didn't seem like something that was done out of routine or habit. 148 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:43.240 It seemed like it was done because it was the fundamental core of who 149 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:48.720 they were as a couple. And I saw it, and I believed it, 150 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.320 and I still believe in it. So maybe I'm naive. My parents 151 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:58.159 were married over fifty years. I don't even think they liked each other. 152 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.639 So as a kid or as an adult, you pick up on what you 153 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:05.759 pick up on. Maybe it's not one hundred percent accuracy, but the vibes 154 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:11.120 are strong, you know. And this show is filled with a lot of 155 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:16.039 single people horror stories and life lessons and dating disasters before we get into the 156 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:22.279 relationships. We believe we want to get into all of that. But I'm 157 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:28.919 focused on and worried for what's next, what happens after that? Because the 158 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:33.159 married people, a lot of you to me collectively, seem to be the 159 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:41.519 ones who've lost the hope and have given up on the possibilities. And this 160 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.320 isn't something I'm talking about where a few counseling sessions will fix it, or 161 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:50.799 it's just a temporarily temporary misunderstanding or a phase he's going through. This is 162 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:56.679 about being checked out, counting the days till the youngest graduates high school. 163 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.519 You know the old line about if you're thinking about quitting, you've already quit. 164 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.039 This is that if you're thinking about divorce, this is a really good 165 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:11.440 chance you should get divorced. A friend of mine a few years ago said, 166 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.879 and she was in an unhappy marriage, and she said, my parents 167 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:18.159 said I need to give it ten years. And I'm like they did. 168 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:24.720 Why? What kind of arbitrary line in the sand? Is that you get 169 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:30.679 multiple chances at love, you get one chance at life, and you're wasting 170 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.399 a big chunk of it in a situation that you do have the ability to 171 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:39.919 change. So this is the great love debate. And most of what we 172 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:43.240 discuss and banter and argue about around here is meant to help you find a 173 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:50.559 good relationship. That's the quest. But this today, what I'm talking about, 174 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.840 this is about getting out of a bad one. So as much as 175 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.000 we want you to get married, a bunch of you, a whole lot 176 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:03.840 of you, a whole lot of wetted listeners on this show, we want 177 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:11.080 you to get divorced. Come back into the dating pool. The water's warm, 178 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:18.120 the options are deep, and the doors are open both ways. You 179 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:24.559 can come in, you can get out as far as us back to the 180 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:30.759 Hope. Our Big, Big tenth Anniversary show, the tenth anniversary of our 181 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:37.799 live tour, which kicks off our eleventh season tenth Anniversary eleventh season February sixth 182 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:39.759 at the Boca black Box Center for the Arts and Book raton, Florida. 183 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:45.960 Tickets are on sale for that Boca Blackbox dot com, Great Lovedebate dot com. 184 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.399 We have amazing lineup and all kinds of surprises and crazy guys and girls 185 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:52.480 coming to that. If you have not been to a Great Love Debate live 186 00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:58.639 show, experience the madness, come, please like, share, follow, 187 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.639 and review this podcast. I brought up the apple thing at the beginning of 188 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:04.639 the show. Pay attention to that a lot of quirky things in the podcasting 189 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.720 ecosystem. Shoot us an email, Great Love Debate at gmail dot com. 190 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:11.759 If you want to get out of your marriage or you want to get into 191 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.039 one, shoot us an email. Great Love Debate at gmail, gmail dot 192 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:22.240 com because, as always at the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making 193 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:30.279 love. See you next time, the Great Love Debate. It's the Great 194 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:37.320 Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.