1 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,079 What is cracklacin Fellow Thermonuclear A Efforts? I am Dana Valley coming at you 2 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,000 with a very brief intro before we get into the shooting guard portion of our 3 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,879 positional rankings. As Solomon, I just wanted to know very quickly that we 4 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,119 recorded this before we found out that Zach Lavine was gonna be out for the 5 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,280 season. That is something that I think probably would have impacted both Grant and 6 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,320 Min's rankings. But keep that in mind when we're talking about him, and 7 00:00:38,359 --> 00:00:42,159 also some of the honorable mentions that might come thereafter. But that's enough. 8 00:00:42,439 --> 00:00:45,920 Let's hop to it. Top ten shooting guard rankings from me and Grant coming 9 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,119 at you right now. What is cracklacin Fellow Thermonuclear A Efforts? I am 10 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:57,159 Dana Valley coming at you with my certified fantabulous Thermonuclear AF co host mister Grant 11 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,759 Hughes. We're on to our top ten sh shooting guard rankings in this series. 12 00:01:02,039 --> 00:01:04,120 Go check out point guards if you haven't already. Small forwards and power 13 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:07,640 forwards and centers will be coming. Everyone knows how we feel about positions on 14 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:12,400 this podcast, but this ended up being a fun instructive post deadline exercise for 15 00:01:12,519 --> 00:01:15,959 us, Grant, how the heck are you doing doing great? Ready to 16 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,560 talk about some shooting guards today? Who do you have as your number one 17 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:25,560 shooting guard? So I know this will differ from yours because we addressed this 18 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,519 particular player differently as far as position. But I have Devin Booker number one. 19 00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:36,959 I think I really did struggle with him, and my number two is 20 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,239 Donovan Mitchell. I think you could go either way between those two, and 21 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,480 in fact some places, a lot of places categorized Mitchell as a point guard. 22 00:01:44,599 --> 00:01:47,200 I get it, but I'm I just I'm not going to do that. 23 00:01:47,239 --> 00:01:49,439 I mean, the Cavs best lineup has Darius Garland in it, and 24 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,599 Darius Garland is absolutely a point guard, so that just by default, Donovan 25 00:01:53,599 --> 00:01:59,120 Mitchell isn't. Again, positional designations are fuzzy, but it felt like that 26 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,760 was the one too to me, and just like a notch below, that 27 00:02:04,519 --> 00:02:07,519 starts a little bit of another tier for me. So maybe that's a decent 28 00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:10,000 place to stop and see where I know you'll be different just because you don't 29 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:13,639 have you have Booker as a point guard, So I'm curious what you're top 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,840 two are or if there's like a tier that. Yeah, so Booker made 31 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,120 point guards for me, uh and he was top five for that people he 32 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,639 wanted to rank him number one. He's he's their point guard for me. 33 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,240 Like, I just couldn't reconcile that. I mean, I do find it 34 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:30,439 interesting that you decided to say this begins a separate tier for you, because 35 00:02:30,479 --> 00:02:32,560 I would have I Spider one. It's not even close. And I'm with 36 00:02:32,599 --> 00:02:37,240 you on why you put him as a shooting guard by the way he is, 37 00:02:37,439 --> 00:02:39,719 I mean, because that's what he is in like their most important lineups. 38 00:02:39,719 --> 00:02:43,400 And even like while he's been running the show in Cleveland, like he 39 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,639 without Garland. That's why he's gonna be classified one as a point guard. 40 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,599 But he's been doing like just a bunch of more collaborative stuff. I still 41 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,800 have so my my number two guy, I would absolutely have in the same 42 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:59,159 tier, even though I just don't Spider has him on the not defensively, 43 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,560 but he has player when it comes to passing, when it comes to the 44 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:07,840 consistency with his author dribble jump shot Anthony Edwards, And so I'm I find 45 00:03:07,879 --> 00:03:09,599 it interesting. I'm just curious why this starts a different tier for you. 46 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,879 I guess, yeah, Edwards is three for me up pretty easily. But 47 00:03:14,039 --> 00:03:16,800 I just struggled with like, when you start stacking up the numbers, you 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,960 know, Mitchell's outscoring him by quite a bit. Mitchell and Booker are both 49 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:28,039 out assisting him, like the he's not so like just as if you put 50 00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:30,919 an in Basketball Reference and you can compare up to six players. This is 51 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,599 not how I made this decision definitively, but I think this illustrates why I 52 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,000 didn't have Edwards up there. Edwards leads in games played among Mitchell, Booker, 53 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,159 Jalen Brown, Irving Baine, a bunch of other guys, but he 54 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:46,120 doesn't lead in any other statistical category Like he just he's very good in a 55 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:50,719 lot of things, and you could definitely say defensively he's better than just about 56 00:03:50,719 --> 00:03:53,560 everybody. Maybe Jalen Brown is there, but Edwards might be better. I 57 00:03:53,680 --> 00:04:01,159 just felt like the Booker Mitchell tier was just like more established and more statistically 58 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:05,439 sort of defensible. But Edwards is definitely three with a bullet. I think 59 00:04:05,479 --> 00:04:10,719 he's more likely to move up than How about this, He's closer to belonging 60 00:04:10,759 --> 00:04:13,960 with Booker and Mitchell than he is with the guys we'll start talking about next. 61 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,800 I'd say, it's so, maybe I am admitting that he belongs a 62 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,759 different tier because I didn't consider him. If you're using booka inspider here that 63 00:04:20,759 --> 00:04:26,839 that's that's fine. But I didn't consider him over Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker. 64 00:04:26,959 --> 00:04:29,120 But I still consider him in the same tier, which might mean that 65 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,839 I have n't been a separate tier even though I was curious. Yeah, 66 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,519 he's like in a little middle ground. I think my number three ended up 67 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:40,560 being. And I don't know if anyone would have his point I've Kyrie and 68 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,480 the MAVs have like an offensive rating in the ninety fifth percentile when he's playing 69 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,120 without Luca, and this is that's point guard stuff from him, But like 70 00:04:48,199 --> 00:04:53,160 his ability to still make an impact as an off guard or share the floor 71 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:58,759 with someone's ball dominant Luca I value now, And so it's this hybrid guard 72 00:04:58,879 --> 00:05:00,519 role. But we have Luca as a point guard, I have to have 73 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,680 Kyrie's a shooting guard. And regardless of why, shouldn't even say how you 74 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,800 feel, because I'll just like there's going to be the off court noise and 75 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,399 the risk of something always happening or him saying something immoral or whatever on the 76 00:05:13,439 --> 00:05:15,199 basketball court. I hate to bring it back the way he is still one 77 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,360 of the most electric, heat and best players in the league. Yep, 78 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:23,720 totally agree. So he's six for me. The only reason, well, 79 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:26,480 first of all, I love that we both put him at shooting guard because 80 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,600 I think if you pull, that's that's what he plays. But most people 81 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,800 think of him as a point guard. I think, but yeah, he's 82 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,439 a two. And also I put him here because I just I think shooting 83 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:40,000 guard is probably the weakest position. Uh So I need I needed some some 84 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,480 pop in there. So he's six for me. And the only reason he's 85 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,040 behind four and five, which I guess I can just say are Jalen Brown 86 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:50,800 four Desmond Bane five, uh is the durability concerns and the off court stuff, 87 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,439 like if I'm thinking about who I want for the rest of this year 88 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,879 in the playoffs, I have to consider those things, so that that chunk 89 00:05:58,959 --> 00:06:00,600 that four or five six is a pretty clear chunk for me as well. 90 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,240 I think Irving is the best player of those three guys of Brown, Bane 91 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:15,240 and himself. Obviously, the availability and the like, I don't know unpredictability 92 00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:19,240 just in general around him. I feel like I just couldn't ignore that part 93 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,439 of it. And He's played twenty seven games, Bain's played thirty seven, 94 00:06:23,519 --> 00:06:29,079 Brown forty six, So like that that just matters for me. Now that 95 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,519 you frame it that way, I'm wondering if I looked at him too much 96 00:06:31,519 --> 00:06:34,560 into vacuum and gave him sort of the benefit of the doubt. There, 97 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:40,120 I am interested. So we're we're about, I think, go off the 98 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,399 rails here. First of all, annoyed that you made me use one of 99 00:06:42,399 --> 00:06:45,720 someone I had classified as a different position as we're trying to set this up. 100 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,399 So my number four shooting guard is and I'm not doing this as like 101 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,800 just an adult like I think you can guess now where I'm going with this. 102 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,480 I am Derek White, and this is in part because I am Jalen 103 00:06:57,519 --> 00:07:00,160 Brown as a small forward. So I'm curious as to why you classified him 104 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,319 as a shooting guard as well, I know, like the defensive matchups, 105 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:08,000 and I guess because he's not really like this big facilitator. That's the case 106 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,800 there. But when you have Derek White on this team just gets tough. 107 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,879 Derek White does so freaking much defensively and even on offense, not just as 108 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:19,439 a connector, but like he will give you some of that that ball handling. 109 00:07:19,519 --> 00:07:23,680 So I have him a lot higher up than I thought. We're in 110 00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:27,079 lockstep with Bain's position now though you had him or do you have him at 111 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,879 four? I had him at no, you have him at five. I 112 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,439 have been at five as well, which just he's injured right now, dealing 113 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:39,240 with that ankle issue. But he the volume he's been shouldering like and is 114 00:07:39,279 --> 00:07:43,639 still relatively efficient, Like it's still going to hit his threes. That's just 115 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,000 that's massive, and he's not you know, the defensive I'm not gonna say 116 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,800 SIV, but like you don't have to work around him defensively the way that 117 00:07:50,839 --> 00:07:55,639 you need to with Kyrie or Donovan Mitchell. I think too, maybe other 118 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,759 than Booker, although it doesn't feel like Booker's been sort of stretched beyond his 119 00:07:59,839 --> 00:08:03,439 case abilities, Like Booker's been asked to do something pretty different this year Bain 120 00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:07,120 has, especially early in the year, Bain was really asked to like kind 121 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,000 of explore some space that he hadn't really explored before. And the fact that, 122 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,040 as you pointed out, like still shooting thirty eight percent from three. 123 00:08:15,079 --> 00:08:18,519 He's got the highest effective field goal percentage of between him, Mitchell Booker, 124 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,399 Brown, Edwards Irving like he's at He's got the highest effective field goal percentage 125 00:08:22,439 --> 00:08:26,959 despite like playing with G leaguers and despite having to play more you know, 126 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,920 lead initiator than he really ever has. Like you can make the case that 127 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,960 like next year, of all these guys, Bain, I mean, Edwards 128 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,679 probably has the highest upside, but Bain has like the most potential to climb, 129 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:41,679 just if he gets in a situation where he's not asked to do quite 130 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,600 so much. So Yeah, I think Bain's right there at five. I 131 00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:48,039 did have Derek White at seven, Okay, And to address the having him 132 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,120 and Brown at the same position, I guess I've just sort of I think 133 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,000 you can really get away with Brown as a two to three or even a 134 00:08:54,039 --> 00:08:58,720 four. I think probably I'm anchored to Brown being more of a two historically. 135 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,480 Uh But and I also I really do think of White almost as like 136 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,759 a one to two. The Celtics are a mess, Like there's there. 137 00:09:07,759 --> 00:09:09,720 They're the hardest. We've talked about this their positions. What were the hardest 138 00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:13,320 teams for you? When it came to like actually having to pin down positions, 139 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:16,440 I think it has to be Boston because I don't see any other situations 140 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,759 where I have two players in the same starting lineup at the same position. 141 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:26,799 But Boston, the Pelicans, and and Brooklyn were just like blood bats when 142 00:09:26,799 --> 00:09:30,600 it came to having to do positional designations for me. Also, again, 143 00:09:30,759 --> 00:09:33,399 I think shooting guard is the weakest spot of the five, or it was 144 00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:35,679 at least, like when you get to the end of it, it's like, 145 00:09:35,759 --> 00:09:37,799 oh, these guys. I don't love any of these guys. So 146 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:41,159 I'm going to use any excuse I can to just get the best players I 147 00:09:41,159 --> 00:09:43,879 can at the position if it makes you know, if it comes close to 148 00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:48,399 making sense. So my six and seven guys were and I think if this 149 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,080 player was on a different team, he would be considered a point guard, 150 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:58,919 like almost assuredly. I have Dejonta Murray at number six. I also have 151 00:09:58,519 --> 00:10:01,759 and look, this surprised me. Just to get to my number seven. 152 00:10:01,759 --> 00:10:03,960 I'd see him in Colem at number seven, and this surprised me a little 153 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,279 bit as well. He's been better defensively this year. I think the Pelicans 154 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,720 do a good job of insulating him when it comes to a column, I 155 00:10:09,759 --> 00:10:13,799 want to spend just a second though on Murray. He's a like with the 156 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,519 Hawks their core lineups. Tray is there, like he's going to be more 157 00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:20,399 of the off guard and he can do point guard stuff. He's shooting well, 158 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,279 like off the catch from three. His pull up three has slumped a 159 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,799 little bit, but like he's hit them this year and I still think there. 160 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,919 I just don't understand why the defensive discussion of him has shifted so much. 161 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,399 Did they expect him to come and anchor a top tier defense that is 162 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:39,799 so hard to do from the perimeter. He's always been more of a disruptor, 163 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,799 and like, if you put him with another rock solid person on the 164 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,399 perimeter or an elite big man, that's when you're gonna unlock the best version 165 00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:52,360 of de Jontay Murray. The Hawks have neither of those things like with him 166 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,399 at the moment, so I think he's actually become underrated, excuse me. 167 00:10:56,639 --> 00:11:01,960 And then CJ's been great. I struggle because a lot of the websites are 168 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,159 going to have him classified as a point guard. But when you have a 169 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,080 higher usage rate with Ingram and Zion more CJ's buckets are coming off of assists, 170 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,639 and you're gonna get more unassisted buckets from Zion and Ingram. They're averaging 171 00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:18,600 more assists than him, Brandon Ingram runs more pick and rolls. So it's 172 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,320 just I looked at it, and then I looked at the defensive matchups, 173 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,320 and I'm like, the Pelicans were annoying with their positions, and so I 174 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,639 was like, I'm not gonna CJ had no prayer of making it among point 175 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:31,440 guards, quite frankly, so I was like, I'm going to consider him 176 00:11:31,759 --> 00:11:35,759 a shooting guard because the Pelicans, basically, I would argue they just play 177 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,399 without a point guard if you want to frame it that way. And having 178 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,759 Herb Jones in that lineup makes it so like McCollum, if you're trying to 179 00:11:43,759 --> 00:11:46,320 figure out what position a guy is based on who they defend, it's just, 180 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,399 well, Herb Jones defends the guy that's good and where it doesn't really 181 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:52,799 matter what position that is, So McCollum becomes an even treatment. Basketball Reference 182 00:11:52,799 --> 00:11:56,840 has McCollum over ninety percent of his minutes at point guard, which, like 183 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:01,639 again, Basketball Reference is probably the tricky, the least reliable positional designator of 184 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,279 the different sources we use, but it was so McCollum does not make my 185 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,279 top ten part of its positional part of it's the like not, you know, 186 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,679 the better defense, but still a minus I would say on that end. 187 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,559 And just like he's averaging nineteen a game without great defense. So it's 188 00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:20,879 like, I don't know, I was wrong about this and I missed on 189 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:24,759 it. At the beginning of the season, he's been if we're looking at 190 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:28,799 the names that are like on this, like he's been better defensively this year. 191 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,240 Yeah, it's I mean, so de Jontay Murray is eight for me, 192 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,000 and like that's kind of where my confidence in this position just totally dies 193 00:12:37,399 --> 00:12:43,639 because from nine through like fifteen, you could make an argument for almost anybody. 194 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:48,120 And I'm really rethinking excluding McCollum because I don't love especially my nine, 195 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,080 ten to eleven guys. I could probably predict at least one fan base that 196 00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:56,039 is either sweating or annoyed right now, I don't know, So why don't 197 00:12:56,039 --> 00:12:58,399 you give me your your eight and nine just so I can see if I 198 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,679 need to like totally reevaluate my last two spots. So I haven't eight, 199 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,559 So he is here. I have Bradley Beal, and he's tough because he 200 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,960 missed so much time this season. But like I said, I'm ranking these 201 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,519 guys as if I want them for the rest of the year. And he 202 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,000 has, like he hasn't been to the playoffs a ton, but he has 203 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,759 a proven track record in those situations and I think efficiencies all over the place. 204 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,559 He's had some very uneven games, he has done I think more, 205 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,799 and part of this is just because he was absent to start the season. 206 00:13:26,879 --> 00:13:28,799 He has done more to try and fit in with this version of the Suns 207 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,440 than anyone has needed to. I mean, Booker made the adjustment to me 208 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,600 by shifting the point guard essentially, so that's the bigger adjustment. I think 209 00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:41,360 he's been just a better fit in that larger context. And I think we're 210 00:13:41,399 --> 00:13:46,279 gonna fast forward assuming they're healthy in like a month or something. It wouldn't 211 00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:48,679 shock me for like, well, why did they rank him behind Siege or 212 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,960 me, behind CJ. Dejonte, Desmond Bayne, even Derek White, Like 213 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,960 that's the level that Bradley he could Bradley Beal for the rest of the season, 214 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,720 could be the third best shooting guard in the league behind spot, Like, 215 00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:03,200 those are the only two players on this list that I would say are 216 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,840 guaranteed to outplay him my number nine. I don't feel good about this. 217 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,159 It's almost like I feel obligated to do this. The injuries are a red 218 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:15,440 flag, and he has not been his usual self this year. I have 219 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,200 Zach Levine. Yeah, still just a bucket and brings one of the hardest 220 00:14:20,279 --> 00:14:24,159 skills just in general when you look at his off the dribble shot making, 221 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,159 and yes, the percentages are all over the place this year, but do 222 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,559 we think that that's just the new normal for him when you're looking at the 223 00:14:28,559 --> 00:14:31,120 rest of the season. If you want to leave him off because of health, 224 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,279 sure, he's just so good. I like he has a case if 225 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:39,120 again, if you throw out sample size for the rest of the season, 226 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,720 this is someone who could also be maybe the fourth best shooting guard in the 227 00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:46,519 league. Like, who are who in front of him on my list right 228 00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:50,039 now? Would you be prepared to say, aside from Spider and that, 229 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,519 oh, Levine is not going to be better than these guys this year? 230 00:14:54,639 --> 00:14:58,279 Maybe Kyrie, But yeah, no, I think you're Bill and Levine both 231 00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:01,600 like you know, I think they're the ones we may look back at and 232 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,240 say we really overthought this and or we well, here's the thing. So 233 00:15:07,159 --> 00:15:09,600 I'm gonna I was gonna adjust, but I'm just gonna go with what I 234 00:15:09,679 --> 00:15:13,480 had, just maybe because the contrast will be interesting. So Levine doesn't make 235 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,080 my list either, and that's that's health based, mainly because like this foot 236 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,159 thing is not going away. It seems to have resurfaced. Who knows what 237 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,000 the rest of his year is gonna look like, and you do have the 238 00:15:24,039 --> 00:15:28,159 issue. I feel like, well, that's what we talked about this very 239 00:15:28,159 --> 00:15:31,679 recently, like awesome shooter, like the premium skill of being able to get 240 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,960 your own shot and create some for others, but like not a fluid passer, 241 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,559 bad defender, and has just not been part of a lot of winning 242 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,600 in a prominent role. So that knocks him out for me as much. 243 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,399 You know, again, it's really the health stuff as much as anything for 244 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,480 him. So for nine, I am gonna go Beal. You've talked me 245 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,759 into Beale. I think that's an overthink if I'm not including him, But 246 00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:58,919 then after that, this is my favorite one of all, and I totally 247 00:15:58,919 --> 00:16:03,159 conceide that this will potentially looks stupid. I've Contavious Caldwell Pope as my tenth 248 00:16:03,159 --> 00:16:10,559 shooting guard. Oh that is a testament to Championships go where KCP. Championships 249 00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:15,039 follow where KCP goes one. He is the most like He's not a star 250 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,639 like a lot of these guys are stars and you know the star adjacent, 251 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,639 but he fits literally anywhere. He will guard whoever you need him to guard 252 00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:26,840 at the one or the two, and he'll do it really well. He'll 253 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,480 make open shots and he will take nothing off the table. So I think 254 00:16:30,679 --> 00:16:33,399 as an art like the he's like the Danny Green. He's like the next 255 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,120 Danny Green. And I could never shut up about how much I love Danny 256 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:40,000 Green, just because that's what I think I want from this position if I 257 00:16:40,039 --> 00:16:42,759 can't have a superstar, is a guy that will just compliment every other player 258 00:16:42,799 --> 00:16:47,000 on my team on both ends and just make life easier for the other four 259 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,519 guys. So there are so many like starrier guys that you could consider here, 260 00:16:52,159 --> 00:16:55,600 but I had KCP at ten and I'm just not going to move him. 261 00:16:56,279 --> 00:16:59,200 Wow, that's I mean, good for KCP. And I hope Nuggets 262 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,120 fans appreciate you doing some really heavy lifting there. I just when I look 263 00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:07,599 at the spirit of shooting guard like his is so like, there's like ten 264 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:14,119 points a game. So right, But you mentioned the defense and the assignments 265 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,240 he has to handle, and I don't know if he's he's not probably there 266 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:18,960 for me necessarily, I haven't gone through it, so I don't want to 267 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,759 say anything too hot. Take he there like he could make all defense in 268 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:26,519 theory that was certainly for the first quarter of the season he might have even 269 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:32,160 been a certified lock there. I had my number ten because I think that 270 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,880 this just I'm going to value like the shot creation, the scoring. I 271 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,759 find I figure that to be a more difficult role I have Anthony Simon's. 272 00:17:38,839 --> 00:17:41,519 I'm not sure if anyone knows how good of a season, not anyone. 273 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,559 Not enough people know how good of a season. He's having their defensive limitations. 274 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,640 But he's a more willing passer now, And this is what I value 275 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,279 in a shooting guard is like he's kind of right now. I really I 276 00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:55,200 don't even know if I should have a vine in front of him. He's 277 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,160 like what you want Zach Levine to be. He's a little bit more of 278 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,960 a willing passer. And now his his catch and shoot threes. He's just 279 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,559 willing to get those off. He doesn't need to take the dribbles or hesitate 280 00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:07,799 on those, but he is gonna hit us off the dribble jumpers and so 281 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,119 and he's he's got real pop to him as well. And he's shooting almost 282 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:15,319 fifty percent on drives despite at times suboptimal spacing in Portland. I'm like, 283 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,519 if I was a I mean, this is past the trade deadline, so 284 00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:22,279 I don't want to date this. I won't even mention it, but like, 285 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:26,039 he's just been one of the best players, like like one of the 286 00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:27,920 best shooting guards to me where I'm looking at this list right now and I'm 287 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,720 like, does he really belong behind Levine and Beale? And I don't know 288 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:34,319 he was. He was top ten for me, just had to be a 289 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,960 must include. I will my toughest cut. I'm not sure where you landed 290 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,920 on these. I'll throw two names out there so that you can go through 291 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,039 any other names you had. My two toughest cuts were Colin Sexton, who 292 00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:49,079 has been especially lately just the fucking monster. And then my other toughest cut 293 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,000 was Tyler Hero, who is just this position is Barren or what do we 294 00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:57,920 say, desolate healthscape, desolate healthscapelude Zactlyvine, we have to use that terminology. 295 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,440 But like, and he's not efficient, Like you can't you really can't 296 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,359 build a case for him unless you just want to ding Beal and Levine for 297 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,079 the availability this season. But he has this skill of like, hitting difficult 298 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,160 shots matters when you look at getting to the mid range and hitting off the 299 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,880 dribble threes. Yeah, I think as I'm looking at my list, including 300 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,680 Brown because people are gonna say, like, well the Celtics start Holiday and 301 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:25,519 White and Brown just is not a shooting guard. So that that gives me 302 00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:27,839 some regret because then I wouldn't have snubbed quite so many guys if I had 303 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,359 just thrown Brown at small forward. But we are where we are. I 304 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,079 think Austin Reeves I would have considered didn't make my list. McCollum is probably 305 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,279 one of the toughest cuts Levine diddo, although the injury makes that a little 306 00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:45,440 easier. Trying to think who else herb Jones just with someone I thought him 307 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,799 do and I like fudged it because he could be a two, three or 308 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,000 four. Really when you look at his but he's been I will say, 309 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,839 I don't normally do this when it comes to defense. I think it might 310 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:02,160 be a borderline crime if he's not all defense this year. He's so good 311 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,759 down the ballot. He doesn't play enough. But Dante g Vincenzo's like permanent 312 00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:08,920 stats stack up so well against some of these other guys. I didn't seriously 313 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,279 consider him, but I wanted to mention his name. Yeah, so I 314 00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:18,839 think McCollum, Levine, Reeves Simon's for sure were pretty tough cuts. But 315 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,960 sorry, you gotta I gotta get kcp on here, and I'm not gonna 316 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,440 not gonna walk that one back. Other names I had, and I'm sorry 317 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,720 if you mentioned any of them. I had Lou Dort, Buddy Healed, 318 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:33,400 Jordan Clarks, and Dante DiVincenzo and Alex Caruso, who's like he could have 319 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,839 gone at any guard spot, but I mentioned him here because he never would 320 00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:37,640 have had a show. He had a he had a case here. He 321 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,440 didn't have a case among point guards. Right, Yeah, that's that's part 322 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,559 of it, is like you're gonna shoehorn guys into spots where you can at 323 00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:48,559 least justify talking about him interesting. Okay, well we're very close at the 324 00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:52,599 top, but your top ten makes it tricky. Yeah you're going, I'll 325 00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:56,599 go. I'll do mine first. So my shooting guard rankings Devin Booker one, 326 00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:02,920 Donovan Mitchell two, Anthony Edwards three, Jalen Brown four, Desmond Bain 327 00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:07,519 five, Kyrie six, Derek White seven, John Saint Murray eight, Brad 328 00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:12,480 Beal nine, Contavious Caldwell Pope at controversial ten. So I had at number 329 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,279 one because I had Donovan Mitchell, excuse me, Devin Booker as a point 330 00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:18,839 guard. I have Donnod Mitchell at one, Anthony Edwards at two, Kyrie 331 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,920 at three, everythinking that one a little bit, Derek White at four, 332 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,799 Desmond Bain at five. I'm even rethinking that one because of all the time 333 00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:30,279 he's gonna wind up missing. De Jonte Murray. I have at six, 334 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,759 CJ. McCollum at seven, Bradley Beal at eight, Zach Lavine at nine, 335 00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:37,480 Anthony Simon's at ten, and I'm already like prepared to put him at 336 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:41,000 number two apparently. So that's where I ended up here. Uh, yeah, 337 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,640 you're right. We were pretty close at the top the KCP. I 338 00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:48,319 tip my cap to you for it. Nuggets fans go follow Grant, give 339 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,160 him hugs. I just want to say I set up front that the playoffs 340 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,359 are going to matter, and these are subjective. So look, there's no 341 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:00,039 statistical case for KCP. Like he you said it, Champion chips follow him 342 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,839 where where he goes. Like it's just like, that's what the CP stands 343 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,559 for, is conabious championship player. Like that's just what that's like, what 344 00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:11,000 he is? Did you make that up or is that a thing already? 345 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:14,440 Because I no no, I tweeted that like off the cuff like a couple 346 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,200 months ago, and Nuggets fans loved it. I thought it was I thought 347 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,920 it would have been something, but like because it's sitting right there, but 348 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:26,519 like you're you're not wrong, and like look at basically, so the Pistons, 349 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:29,160 remember he used to be in the max contract discussion, and then it's 350 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,720 like, so we went to the Lakers, bruis, he's a winning player 351 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,000 there, then goes to the Wizards and it's clear that like you know, 352 00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:37,599 the Lakers lose that trade, and then it's clear the Wizards lose that trade. 353 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,480 That's the Denver. It's just like so he's not just a winning player. 354 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,079 He's if you move him, you're gonna come off on the losing end 355 00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:47,759 of it. And the Pistons are in their desolate healthscape right now because they 356 00:22:47,799 --> 00:22:51,559 never paid him. Who's just well, look I look at where he's I 357 00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:53,599 mean, other than like the Wizards him by the way, it's like a 358 00:22:53,599 --> 00:22:56,400 short term deal. But you know what I mean, if you trade KCP, 359 00:22:56,599 --> 00:23:00,440 you're you're making a mistake. Let's just leave it there. Can you 360 00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:03,559 take us out of here? This was This was a fun one. Yeah. 361 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,359 The more we differ, the more interesting it is. Thanks for watching, 362 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,480 Thanks for listening. If you haven't already, make sure you follow us 363 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,920 on the socials at Hardwood Knocks, rate review, subscribe wherever, wherever you 364 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,160 get your podcast, wherever you listen to us or watch us, help the 365 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,319 algorithm, love us back by commenting on YouTube, up voting. Everything you 366 00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:25,799 can do to positively impact our reach would be greatly appreciated. I think that's 367 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,039 that's enough of an outro. Oh, if you want to get on our 368 00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:32,480 discord, and if you're interested in our merch, you links for that or 369 00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:34,799 in the YouTube and podcast description. We close, as always with a shout 370 00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:37,680 out to the wane only Frank Nilakina and an apology to Jared Allen