What is cracklacin Fellow Thermonuclear A Efforts? I am Dana Valley coming at you
with a very brief intro before we get into the shooting guard portion of our
positional rankings. As Solomon, I just wanted to know very quickly that we
recorded this before we found out that Zach Lavine was gonna be out for the
season. That is something that I think probably would have impacted both Grant and
Min's rankings. But keep that in mind when we're talking about him, and
also some of the honorable mentions that might come thereafter. But that's enough.
Let's hop to it. Top ten shooting guard rankings from me and Grant coming
at you right now. What is cracklacin Fellow Thermonuclear A Efforts? I am
Dana Valley coming at you with my certified fantabulous Thermonuclear AF co host mister Grant
Hughes. We're on to our top ten sh shooting guard rankings in this series.
Go check out point guards if you haven't already. Small forwards and power
forwards and centers will be coming. Everyone knows how we feel about positions on
this podcast, but this ended up being a fun instructive post deadline exercise for
us, Grant, how the heck are you doing doing great? Ready to
talk about some shooting guards today? Who do you have as your number one
shooting guard? So I know this will differ from yours because we addressed this
particular player differently as far as position. But I have Devin Booker number one.
I think I really did struggle with him, and my number two is
Donovan Mitchell. I think you could go either way between those two, and
in fact some places, a lot of places categorized Mitchell as a point guard.
I get it, but I'm I just I'm not going to do that.
I mean, the Cavs best lineup has Darius Garland in it, and
Darius Garland is absolutely a point guard, so that just by default, Donovan
Mitchell isn't. Again, positional designations are fuzzy, but it felt like that
was the one too to me, and just like a notch below, that
starts a little bit of another tier for me. So maybe that's a decent
place to stop and see where I know you'll be different just because you don't
have you have Booker as a point guard, So I'm curious what you're top
two are or if there's like a tier that. Yeah, so Booker made
point guards for me, uh and he was top five for that people he
wanted to rank him number one. He's he's their point guard for me.
Like, I just couldn't reconcile that. I mean, I do find it
interesting that you decided to say this begins a separate tier for you, because
I would have I Spider one. It's not even close. And I'm with
you on why you put him as a shooting guard by the way he is,
I mean, because that's what he is in like their most important lineups.
And even like while he's been running the show in Cleveland, like he
without Garland. That's why he's gonna be classified one as a point guard.
But he's been doing like just a bunch of more collaborative stuff. I still
have so my my number two guy, I would absolutely have in the same
tier, even though I just don't Spider has him on the not defensively,
but he has player when it comes to passing, when it comes to the
consistency with his author dribble jump shot Anthony Edwards, And so I'm I find
it interesting. I'm just curious why this starts a different tier for you.
I guess, yeah, Edwards is three for me up pretty easily. But
I just struggled with like, when you start stacking up the numbers, you
know, Mitchell's outscoring him by quite a bit. Mitchell and Booker are both
out assisting him, like the he's not so like just as if you put
an in Basketball Reference and you can compare up to six players. This is
not how I made this decision definitively, but I think this illustrates why I
didn't have Edwards up there. Edwards leads in games played among Mitchell, Booker,
Jalen Brown, Irving Baine, a bunch of other guys, but he
doesn't lead in any other statistical category Like he just he's very good in a
lot of things, and you could definitely say defensively he's better than just about
everybody. Maybe Jalen Brown is there, but Edwards might be better. I
just felt like the Booker Mitchell tier was just like more established and more statistically
sort of defensible. But Edwards is definitely three with a bullet. I think
he's more likely to move up than How about this, He's closer to belonging
with Booker and Mitchell than he is with the guys we'll start talking about next.
I'd say, it's so, maybe I am admitting that he belongs a
different tier because I didn't consider him. If you're using booka inspider here that
that's that's fine. But I didn't consider him over Donovan Mitchell or Devin Booker.
But I still consider him in the same tier, which might mean that
I have n't been a separate tier even though I was curious. Yeah,
he's like in a little middle ground. I think my number three ended up
being. And I don't know if anyone would have his point I've Kyrie and
the MAVs have like an offensive rating in the ninety fifth percentile when he's playing
without Luca, and this is that's point guard stuff from him, But like
his ability to still make an impact as an off guard or share the floor
with someone's ball dominant Luca I value now, And so it's this hybrid guard
role. But we have Luca as a point guard, I have to have
Kyrie's a shooting guard. And regardless of why, shouldn't even say how you
feel, because I'll just like there's going to be the off court noise and
the risk of something always happening or him saying something immoral or whatever on the
basketball court. I hate to bring it back the way he is still one
of the most electric, heat and best players in the league. Yep,
totally agree. So he's six for me. The only reason, well,
first of all, I love that we both put him at shooting guard because
I think if you pull, that's that's what he plays. But most people
think of him as a point guard. I think, but yeah, he's
a two. And also I put him here because I just I think shooting
guard is probably the weakest position. Uh So I need I needed some some
pop in there. So he's six for me. And the only reason he's
behind four and five, which I guess I can just say are Jalen Brown
four Desmond Bane five, uh is the durability concerns and the off court stuff,
like if I'm thinking about who I want for the rest of this year
in the playoffs, I have to consider those things, so that that chunk
that four or five six is a pretty clear chunk for me as well.
I think Irving is the best player of those three guys of Brown, Bane
and himself. Obviously, the availability and the like, I don't know unpredictability
just in general around him. I feel like I just couldn't ignore that part
of it. And He's played twenty seven games, Bain's played thirty seven,
Brown forty six, So like that that just matters for me. Now that
you frame it that way, I'm wondering if I looked at him too much
into vacuum and gave him sort of the benefit of the doubt. There,
I am interested. So we're we're about, I think, go off the
rails here. First of all, annoyed that you made me use one of
someone I had classified as a different position as we're trying to set this up.
So my number four shooting guard is and I'm not doing this as like
just an adult like I think you can guess now where I'm going with this.
I am Derek White, and this is in part because I am Jalen
Brown as a small forward. So I'm curious as to why you classified him
as a shooting guard as well, I know, like the defensive matchups,
and I guess because he's not really like this big facilitator. That's the case
there. But when you have Derek White on this team just gets tough.
Derek White does so freaking much defensively and even on offense, not just as
a connector, but like he will give you some of that that ball handling.
So I have him a lot higher up than I thought. We're in
lockstep with Bain's position now though you had him or do you have him at
four? I had him at no, you have him at five. I
have been at five as well, which just he's injured right now, dealing
with that ankle issue. But he the volume he's been shouldering like and is
still relatively efficient, Like it's still going to hit his threes. That's just
that's massive, and he's not you know, the defensive I'm not gonna say
SIV, but like you don't have to work around him defensively the way that
you need to with Kyrie or Donovan Mitchell. I think too, maybe other
than Booker, although it doesn't feel like Booker's been sort of stretched beyond his
case abilities, Like Booker's been asked to do something pretty different this year Bain
has, especially early in the year, Bain was really asked to like kind
of explore some space that he hadn't really explored before. And the fact that,
as you pointed out, like still shooting thirty eight percent from three.
He's got the highest effective field goal percentage of between him, Mitchell Booker,
Brown, Edwards Irving like he's at He's got the highest effective field goal percentage
despite like playing with G leaguers and despite having to play more you know,
lead initiator than he really ever has. Like you can make the case that
like next year, of all these guys, Bain, I mean, Edwards
probably has the highest upside, but Bain has like the most potential to climb,
just if he gets in a situation where he's not asked to do quite
so much. So Yeah, I think Bain's right there at five. I
did have Derek White at seven, Okay, And to address the having him
and Brown at the same position, I guess I've just sort of I think
you can really get away with Brown as a two to three or even a
four. I think probably I'm anchored to Brown being more of a two historically.
Uh But and I also I really do think of White almost as like
a one to two. The Celtics are a mess, Like there's there.
They're the hardest. We've talked about this their positions. What were the hardest
teams for you? When it came to like actually having to pin down positions,
I think it has to be Boston because I don't see any other situations
where I have two players in the same starting lineup at the same position.
But Boston, the Pelicans, and and Brooklyn were just like blood bats when
it came to having to do positional designations for me. Also, again,
I think shooting guard is the weakest spot of the five, or it was
at least, like when you get to the end of it, it's like,
oh, these guys. I don't love any of these guys. So
I'm going to use any excuse I can to just get the best players I
can at the position if it makes you know, if it comes close to
making sense. So my six and seven guys were and I think if this
player was on a different team, he would be considered a point guard,
like almost assuredly. I have Dejonta Murray at number six. I also have
and look, this surprised me. Just to get to my number seven.
I'd see him in Colem at number seven, and this surprised me a little
bit as well. He's been better defensively this year. I think the Pelicans
do a good job of insulating him when it comes to a column, I
want to spend just a second though on Murray. He's a like with the
Hawks their core lineups. Tray is there, like he's going to be more
of the off guard and he can do point guard stuff. He's shooting well,
like off the catch from three. His pull up three has slumped a
little bit, but like he's hit them this year and I still think there.
I just don't understand why the defensive discussion of him has shifted so much.
Did they expect him to come and anchor a top tier defense that is
so hard to do from the perimeter. He's always been more of a disruptor,
and like, if you put him with another rock solid person on the
perimeter or an elite big man, that's when you're gonna unlock the best version
of de Jontay Murray. The Hawks have neither of those things like with him
at the moment, so I think he's actually become underrated, excuse me.
And then CJ's been great. I struggle because a lot of the websites are
going to have him classified as a point guard. But when you have a
higher usage rate with Ingram and Zion more CJ's buckets are coming off of assists,
and you're gonna get more unassisted buckets from Zion and Ingram. They're averaging
more assists than him, Brandon Ingram runs more pick and rolls. So it's
just I looked at it, and then I looked at the defensive matchups,
and I'm like, the Pelicans were annoying with their positions, and so I
was like, I'm not gonna CJ had no prayer of making it among point
guards, quite frankly, so I was like, I'm going to consider him
a shooting guard because the Pelicans, basically, I would argue they just play
without a point guard if you want to frame it that way. And having
Herb Jones in that lineup makes it so like McCollum, if you're trying to
figure out what position a guy is based on who they defend, it's just,
well, Herb Jones defends the guy that's good and where it doesn't really
matter what position that is, So McCollum becomes an even treatment. Basketball Reference
has McCollum over ninety percent of his minutes at point guard, which, like
again, Basketball Reference is probably the tricky, the least reliable positional designator of
the different sources we use, but it was so McCollum does not make my
top ten part of its positional part of it's the like not, you know,
the better defense, but still a minus I would say on that end.
And just like he's averaging nineteen a game without great defense. So it's
like, I don't know, I was wrong about this and I missed on
it. At the beginning of the season, he's been if we're looking at
the names that are like on this, like he's been better defensively this year.
Yeah, it's I mean, so de Jontay Murray is eight for me,
and like that's kind of where my confidence in this position just totally dies
because from nine through like fifteen, you could make an argument for almost anybody.
And I'm really rethinking excluding McCollum because I don't love especially my nine,
ten to eleven guys. I could probably predict at least one fan base that
is either sweating or annoyed right now, I don't know, So why don't
you give me your your eight and nine just so I can see if I
need to like totally reevaluate my last two spots. So I haven't eight,
So he is here. I have Bradley Beal, and he's tough because he
missed so much time this season. But like I said, I'm ranking these
guys as if I want them for the rest of the year. And he
has, like he hasn't been to the playoffs a ton, but he has
a proven track record in those situations and I think efficiencies all over the place.
He's had some very uneven games, he has done I think more,
and part of this is just because he was absent to start the season.
He has done more to try and fit in with this version of the Suns
than anyone has needed to. I mean, Booker made the adjustment to me
by shifting the point guard essentially, so that's the bigger adjustment. I think
he's been just a better fit in that larger context. And I think we're
gonna fast forward assuming they're healthy in like a month or something. It wouldn't
shock me for like, well, why did they rank him behind Siege or
me, behind CJ. Dejonte, Desmond Bayne, even Derek White, Like
that's the level that Bradley he could Bradley Beal for the rest of the season,
could be the third best shooting guard in the league behind spot, Like,
those are the only two players on this list that I would say are
guaranteed to outplay him my number nine. I don't feel good about this.
It's almost like I feel obligated to do this. The injuries are a red
flag, and he has not been his usual self this year. I have
Zach Levine. Yeah, still just a bucket and brings one of the hardest
skills just in general when you look at his off the dribble shot making,
and yes, the percentages are all over the place this year, but do
we think that that's just the new normal for him when you're looking at the
rest of the season. If you want to leave him off because of health,
sure, he's just so good. I like he has a case if
again, if you throw out sample size for the rest of the season,
this is someone who could also be maybe the fourth best shooting guard in the
league. Like, who are who in front of him on my list right
now? Would you be prepared to say, aside from Spider and that,
oh, Levine is not going to be better than these guys this year?
Maybe Kyrie, But yeah, no, I think you're Bill and Levine both
like you know, I think they're the ones we may look back at and
say we really overthought this and or we well, here's the thing. So
I'm gonna I was gonna adjust, but I'm just gonna go with what I
had, just maybe because the contrast will be interesting. So Levine doesn't make
my list either, and that's that's health based, mainly because like this foot
thing is not going away. It seems to have resurfaced. Who knows what
the rest of his year is gonna look like, and you do have the
issue. I feel like, well, that's what we talked about this very
recently, like awesome shooter, like the premium skill of being able to get
your own shot and create some for others, but like not a fluid passer,
bad defender, and has just not been part of a lot of winning
in a prominent role. So that knocks him out for me as much.
You know, again, it's really the health stuff as much as anything for
him. So for nine, I am gonna go Beal. You've talked me
into Beale. I think that's an overthink if I'm not including him, But
then after that, this is my favorite one of all, and I totally
conceide that this will potentially looks stupid. I've Contavious Caldwell Pope as my tenth
shooting guard. Oh that is a testament to Championships go where KCP. Championships
follow where KCP goes one. He is the most like He's not a star
like a lot of these guys are stars and you know the star adjacent,
but he fits literally anywhere. He will guard whoever you need him to guard
at the one or the two, and he'll do it really well. He'll
make open shots and he will take nothing off the table. So I think
as an art like the he's like the Danny Green. He's like the next
Danny Green. And I could never shut up about how much I love Danny
Green, just because that's what I think I want from this position if I
can't have a superstar, is a guy that will just compliment every other player
on my team on both ends and just make life easier for the other four
guys. So there are so many like starrier guys that you could consider here,
but I had KCP at ten and I'm just not going to move him.
Wow, that's I mean, good for KCP. And I hope Nuggets
fans appreciate you doing some really heavy lifting there. I just when I look
at the spirit of shooting guard like his is so like, there's like ten
points a game. So right, But you mentioned the defense and the assignments
he has to handle, and I don't know if he's he's not probably there
for me necessarily, I haven't gone through it, so I don't want to
say anything too hot. Take he there like he could make all defense in
theory that was certainly for the first quarter of the season he might have even
been a certified lock there. I had my number ten because I think that
this just I'm going to value like the shot creation, the scoring. I
find I figure that to be a more difficult role I have Anthony Simon's.
I'm not sure if anyone knows how good of a season, not anyone.
Not enough people know how good of a season. He's having their defensive limitations.
But he's a more willing passer now, And this is what I value
in a shooting guard is like he's kind of right now. I really I
don't even know if I should have a vine in front of him. He's
like what you want Zach Levine to be. He's a little bit more of
a willing passer. And now his his catch and shoot threes. He's just
willing to get those off. He doesn't need to take the dribbles or hesitate
on those, but he is gonna hit us off the dribble jumpers and so
and he's he's got real pop to him as well. And he's shooting almost
fifty percent on drives despite at times suboptimal spacing in Portland. I'm like,
if I was a I mean, this is past the trade deadline, so
I don't want to date this. I won't even mention it, but like,
he's just been one of the best players, like like one of the
best shooting guards to me where I'm looking at this list right now and I'm
like, does he really belong behind Levine and Beale? And I don't know
he was. He was top ten for me, just had to be a
must include. I will my toughest cut. I'm not sure where you landed
on these. I'll throw two names out there so that you can go through
any other names you had. My two toughest cuts were Colin Sexton, who
has been especially lately just the fucking monster. And then my other toughest cut
was Tyler Hero, who is just this position is Barren or what do we
say, desolate healthscape, desolate healthscapelude Zactlyvine, we have to use that terminology.
But like, and he's not efficient, Like you can't you really can't
build a case for him unless you just want to ding Beal and Levine for
the availability this season. But he has this skill of like, hitting difficult
shots matters when you look at getting to the mid range and hitting off the
dribble threes. Yeah, I think as I'm looking at my list, including
Brown because people are gonna say, like, well the Celtics start Holiday and
White and Brown just is not a shooting guard. So that that gives me
some regret because then I wouldn't have snubbed quite so many guys if I had
just thrown Brown at small forward. But we are where we are. I
think Austin Reeves I would have considered didn't make my list. McCollum is probably
one of the toughest cuts Levine diddo, although the injury makes that a little
easier. Trying to think who else herb Jones just with someone I thought him
do and I like fudged it because he could be a two, three or
four. Really when you look at his but he's been I will say,
I don't normally do this when it comes to defense. I think it might
be a borderline crime if he's not all defense this year. He's so good
down the ballot. He doesn't play enough. But Dante g Vincenzo's like permanent
stats stack up so well against some of these other guys. I didn't seriously
consider him, but I wanted to mention his name. Yeah, so I
think McCollum, Levine, Reeves Simon's for sure were pretty tough cuts. But
sorry, you gotta I gotta get kcp on here, and I'm not gonna
not gonna walk that one back. Other names I had, and I'm sorry
if you mentioned any of them. I had Lou Dort, Buddy Healed,
Jordan Clarks, and Dante DiVincenzo and Alex Caruso, who's like he could have
gone at any guard spot, but I mentioned him here because he never would
have had a show. He had a he had a case here. He
didn't have a case among point guards. Right, Yeah, that's that's part
of it, is like you're gonna shoehorn guys into spots where you can at
least justify talking about him interesting. Okay, well we're very close at the
top, but your top ten makes it tricky. Yeah you're going, I'll
go. I'll do mine first. So my shooting guard rankings Devin Booker one,
Donovan Mitchell two, Anthony Edwards three, Jalen Brown four, Desmond Bain
five, Kyrie six, Derek White seven, John Saint Murray eight, Brad
Beal nine, Contavious Caldwell Pope at controversial ten. So I had at number
one because I had Donovan Mitchell, excuse me, Devin Booker as a point
guard. I have Donnod Mitchell at one, Anthony Edwards at two, Kyrie
at three, everythinking that one a little bit, Derek White at four,
Desmond Bain at five. I'm even rethinking that one because of all the time
he's gonna wind up missing. De Jonte Murray. I have at six,
CJ. McCollum at seven, Bradley Beal at eight, Zach Lavine at nine,
Anthony Simon's at ten, and I'm already like prepared to put him at
number two apparently. So that's where I ended up here. Uh, yeah,
you're right. We were pretty close at the top the KCP. I
tip my cap to you for it. Nuggets fans go follow Grant, give
him hugs. I just want to say I set up front that the playoffs
are going to matter, and these are subjective. So look, there's no
statistical case for KCP. Like he you said it, Champion chips follow him
where where he goes. Like it's just like, that's what the CP stands
for, is conabious championship player. Like that's just what that's like, what
he is? Did you make that up or is that a thing already?
Because I no no, I tweeted that like off the cuff like a couple
months ago, and Nuggets fans loved it. I thought it was I thought
it would have been something, but like because it's sitting right there, but
like you're you're not wrong, and like look at basically, so the Pistons,
remember he used to be in the max contract discussion, and then it's
like, so we went to the Lakers, bruis, he's a winning player
there, then goes to the Wizards and it's clear that like you know,
the Lakers lose that trade, and then it's clear the Wizards lose that trade.
That's the Denver. It's just like so he's not just a winning player.
He's if you move him, you're gonna come off on the losing end
of it. And the Pistons are in their desolate healthscape right now because they
never paid him. Who's just well, look I look at where he's I
mean, other than like the Wizards him by the way, it's like a
short term deal. But you know what I mean, if you trade KCP,
you're you're making a mistake. Let's just leave it there. Can you
take us out of here? This was This was a fun one. Yeah.
The more we differ, the more interesting it is. Thanks for watching,
Thanks for listening. If you haven't already, make sure you follow us
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out to the wane only Frank Nilakina and an apology to Jared Allen