1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:44,479 The the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 2 00:00:45,920 --> 00:01:25,719 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 3 00:01:38,840 --> 00:02:14,479 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 4 00:02:16,800 --> 00:03:07,639 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 5 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:43,199 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 6 00:03:46,960 --> 00:04:43,839 the the the the It's Monday night. It's another open forum. It's time 7 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:50,000 to have fun. You know, we don't get a lot of opportunities to 8 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:57,439 set up formal debates, and it seems like nowadays they're fewer and fewer of 9 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,519 those for many reasons. I think we've had a good run over here, 10 00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:06,279 and I think a lot of people really aren't interested in a formal debate. 11 00:05:06,319 --> 00:05:14,040 It looks like what's going on is that most people do quote debates online to 12 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,639 get a few thirty second clips, So they're really just kind of relying on 13 00:05:17,759 --> 00:05:25,639 the entire debate for what appears to be an own or a thirty second clip, 14 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:30,279 a one minute clip, And I don't know, to me, that's 15 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:35,839 just a waste of everyone's time and attention and energy. Debates ought to be 16 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,439 about the subjects at hand, and you know, that's why we can't really 17 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,800 even have debates. We can't have nice things anymore, like debate. Everything 18 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:51,399 is faking gray now. So really the best we can hope for is kind 19 00:05:51,439 --> 00:05:59,399 of entertaining, you know, open forums. That's really about all we can 20 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:04,120 do over here. And that's okay. We've already got some people piling in. 21 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:13,319 For those that are interested, the link is right here. If you 22 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,399 want to call in, you can call in right here. If you're on 23 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,319 YouTube watching and you want to ask a question, you want to make an 24 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:27,519 argument, you want to present something challenging, You're welcome to do that within 25 00:06:27,639 --> 00:06:34,040 reason. And now I think Elijah called me out. This was joking, 26 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:41,399 so it's not like a hardcore call out because we were making jokes back and 27 00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:46,199 forth. But I did invite Elijah if he wants to come on. I 28 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:53,480 don't know if he's Orthodox or former Protestant or looking into Catholicism or where he's 29 00:06:53,519 --> 00:06:59,120 at, but he's welcome to hop on if he wants to. I send 30 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:00,160 him the link if you want to join us. I don't know if he 31 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:08,279 will. I know he's in Australia, so he might shit. I don't 32 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,399 know. It might be three days into the future, the way that tom 33 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,759 zones work over there. I mean, it might be it might be easter 34 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:21,680 over there twenty twenty seven. Who knows. I don't even know. But 35 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,720 we're going to open it up. A couple of things that we want to 36 00:07:29,839 --> 00:07:38,160 stress. Today's topic is Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam. I did add atheism 37 00:07:38,279 --> 00:07:43,000 up there in the title, but I really I'd like to focus on Catholics 38 00:07:43,079 --> 00:07:49,720 Protestants in Islam. I'm just not really in the mood to also field everybody's 39 00:07:49,839 --> 00:07:57,720 tag questions. And we've done so many tag open forums, so many tag 40 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:03,800 debates that I'm looking really to focus on these other topics. So I don't 41 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,079 know, people are already dropping off. Did you you sat here waiting? 42 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,639 Okay, so I guess he had a tag question. So people just want 43 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:20,720 to talk about tag. Nobody wants to come defend their position. So where's 44 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,439 all the Protestant and Catholic debaters. You know, it's been so long since 45 00:08:24,439 --> 00:08:30,319 we had a Protestant that really actually came in and defended their position. And 46 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:37,240 you know, I put out again today that there's an open opportunity if any 47 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,679 Roman Catholics want to debate the history of the geopolitics of the papacy. I 48 00:08:41,759 --> 00:08:45,960 really want to see this debated, I said, Any Protestants who want to 49 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,679 come on debate Protestants, any Catholics who want to come on and debate the 50 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,759 geopolitics of the papacy. Nobody has ever debated this to my knowledge. It's 51 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:01,159 fascinating to me that to be such an ancient geopolitical structure, the papacy, 52 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,879 that is that we haven't really found any Roman Catholics who want to debate that. 53 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:13,919 It's always a debate about the quote minds that supposedly prove papal infallibility. 54 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:20,679 That's really about ninety to ninety five percent of what Roman Catholic apologists to do 55 00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:26,720 and what they debate. And it seems to me that they should also branch 56 00:09:26,799 --> 00:09:30,039 out and want to cover other accounts. I mean, my account of the 57 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:39,000 papacy is that it grew into a geopolitical power and became kind of a servant 58 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:46,559 to money power, to you know, to the lust for worldly power. 59 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,240 That explains a lot of things in history very well. It explains a lot 60 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:58,960 of the recent papal decisions and moves. So that would be my account of 61 00:09:58,159 --> 00:10:03,360 the trajackctory of the papacy, and that has a lot of explanatory power. 62 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:13,039 So when are we going to get a competent Roman Catholic geopolitical analysts who can 63 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,240 address those things. They never even talk about it. And I don't mean 64 00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:20,840 does Taylor Marshall address infiltration. That's not what I'm talking about. Every trad 65 00:10:20,919 --> 00:10:26,080 cat believes the Papes he was infiltrated and subverted, you know, or whatever. 66 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,000 But no, I'm talking about more specific things about the history of the 67 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:37,759 relationship between the Rothschild family, for example, in the Papal Bank, the 68 00:10:37,799 --> 00:10:41,759 Papal treasury, history of Operation Gladio, the CIA's connection to the Papacy, 69 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:50,159 various meetings between Kissinger and Paul the Six, the long history of CIA operations 70 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,799 in Rome, the back door deals that were made in relationship to p two 71 00:10:54,879 --> 00:11:00,679 Lodge, all of that all well documented in numerous historical texts. That has 72 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,720 a lot to do with what's going on in the Roman Catholic world in the 73 00:11:03,759 --> 00:11:07,840 papacy. And I don't hear this ever addressed. I'm talking about those things 74 00:11:07,879 --> 00:11:11,279 I'm not talking about. Are there trad cats that believe that the Roman Catholic 75 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:20,600 Church was su you know, subverted by Masons or something. To date, 76 00:11:20,919 --> 00:11:28,120 I had never seen a Roman Catholic debate that topic, and that to me 77 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,559 makes a lot more sense. Now. This seemed to get a rise out 78 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:37,639 of people today, this zesty, little sassy boy here doing his little praise 79 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,679 and worship diddy, which I thought was funny. And my first joke was 80 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,639 I sent that to Tristan and I said, you need to calm down when 81 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:52,200 you're at liturgy, dude, nobody cares about your liturgical dance. That was 82 00:11:52,279 --> 00:11:56,519 my joke to Tristan. And then Elijah Shaeffer thought it would be funny to 83 00:11:56,639 --> 00:12:00,159 say, here's j at church, which is still kind of funny. So 84 00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:07,240 we were thinking on the same line of thought. But I countered by telling 85 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:13,120 him that he attends Pastor Randy Balls's church right here. This is where he 86 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:20,320 go to church. He'd be going to church right here where they got monster 87 00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:24,879 truck rallies, they got Blockbuster videos, they got it all over at EA's 88 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:35,720 church. They also got Korean megachurch men. They got a water slide baptism 89 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:41,639 that slides you into the sanctuary right here. We've all seen mousket. Anyway, 90 00:12:43,399 --> 00:12:48,919 hopefully he's still awake, and he can pop up in here and set 91 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,039 us straight. He can give them arguments. The way it works is you 92 00:12:52,120 --> 00:13:01,399 request to speak. The allowed topics tonight are not conspiratorial. I don't care 93 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:07,440 about your conspiracy theories. We're talking about the history of the Roman Church. 94 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:13,639 We're talking about geopolitics. We're talking about Protestantism, Bible alone, soul scriptura. 95 00:13:15,759 --> 00:13:18,240 If that's your position, you want to defend that, you want to 96 00:13:18,279 --> 00:13:22,720 defend justification by faith alone, you want to defend all those Protestant norms, 97 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,039 then feel free to call in. You can have the microphone and you can 98 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:31,279 make whatever arguments you want. The call in is via Twitter or x there's 99 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,200 the link in the chat. So you got to pop up in here, 100 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,879 you hit request to speak. You can come on, and I'm going to 101 00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:41,919 favor everyone who disagrees. If you disagree, you go to the head of 102 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:50,039 line. We are going to favor the topics of Catholicism, Protestantism, in 103 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:56,120 Islam. We're not really looking for atheists tonight. We've done a million atheists 104 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:03,600 call ins, so those are the preferred topics, and I'm gonna go ahead 105 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,159 and open it up. I got all the books around. We can go 106 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:13,039 into the texts, into the literature if we need to. At least I 107 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,879 have some of the texts here, I should say, I don't have everything 108 00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:20,639 here, and we've already got some super chats. Appreciate that rolling in here 109 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,320 Anonymous for one hundred dollars says this is for you and Jamie's recent streams. 110 00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,639 Thank you very much. Well, thank you so much, Anonymous. That's 111 00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:33,159 a big fat super chat. I appreciate that. Jacob Major is five dollars 112 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,519 day. I heard that you talk about the Frankish papacy preparing for the Enlightenment. 113 00:14:37,559 --> 00:14:41,399 I don't understand this connection. Can you help me understand? Yeah, 114 00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:52,799 there's a book that covers this. I'm not a huge fan of this website, 115 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,159 but they do have a lot of good articles over here. And I'm 116 00:14:56,159 --> 00:15:01,039 trying to remember this guy's name. It's a good and I can never remember 117 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,200 this Greek guy's name. But it's actually admitted in pretty much all of the 118 00:15:05,879 --> 00:15:18,080 here it is. It's not the book by Father Romanedes. It's the book 119 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:28,360 about who and what is a Byzantine? No, this isn't it, mhmm, 120 00:15:33,159 --> 00:15:39,000 Frank's Roman's Feudalism. No, that's not it. It's a it's a 121 00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:45,000 Greek dude who wrote a book about the history of Byzantine Empire. Anyway, 122 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:52,240 it doesn't matter. You can just read like Sushinsky's book. He talks about 123 00:15:52,679 --> 00:15:58,519 the Franks, the Carolinians, and if you start around on this website you 124 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:03,279 can find the book I'm talking about. Mm hmm, I say's track contents. 125 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:12,039 Here we go. We can find it this way. No, it's 126 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:33,039 not Matellanos, it's not any of these. Oh maybe it's this one. 127 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:45,200 No, that's not it's not it. Maybe it's this. This website takes 128 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,960 forever. Anyway, I don't know. We've shared this a million times and 129 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,720 now I can't find it, and this website doesn't want to work. So 130 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,440 anyway, long story short is uh yeah, this is basic history, right, 131 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,279 all right, let's see, we're gonna go to the first call here. 132 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:29,039 Yeah, let's see. I think, well, I don't know who 133 00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:32,359 was waiting the longest, but who me is first? So we'll go to 134 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:49,799 who me? I'm mute. My name is Chris. And I actually got 135 00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:55,000 to speak in a similar kind of open forum with Ian not too long ago, 136 00:17:55,799 --> 00:17:57,839 and I got that's how I kind of ran into you when he was 137 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:03,079 talking about the Roman you know, the Roman debate with Christianity, and I 138 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,559 kind of came in and talked about like how why it was a sacrifice and 139 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,799 kind of explained some of that. Oh you were on that space? Are 140 00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:15,680 you orthodogy? Protestant? I can't remember Protestant and so h And I actually 141 00:18:15,759 --> 00:18:18,200 like volunteered when you kind of put a tweet out saying, hey, is 142 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,279 there any Protestants that want to debate? I'll be like, I'll be your 143 00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:25,799 Protestant punching bag. I'm fine with that. But I was just wondering. 144 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,880 So, you know, in that debate, there was obviously there were there 145 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,519 were great points, and then there were people kind of going back and forth 146 00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:38,759 with Ian and he made a couple of comments in there about Protestant like bad 147 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:45,039 Protestant logic and and a lot of those kinds of things. So for people 148 00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:48,440 that are new like me to the you know who you are and and a 149 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,720 lot of things you kind of believe, is there a way you could kind 150 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:56,559 of introduce me to some of the you know, the broader strokes that you 151 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:02,400 think Protestants encompasses and where it fails and where where it where it falls apart 152 00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:04,480 just in a quick summary years that is that a bad place to start? 153 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,519 No, it's not a bad place. But now I remember that the thing 154 00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:14,960 I'm looking for is on a different Uh. Oh my gosh, it's on 155 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,759 this website and I now I'm trying to find if I'm trying to find something 156 00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:25,960 to get totally distracted. And then I'm like, yeah, it's not the 157 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:30,519 thing that you linked. It's an online book by a Greek writer who wrote 158 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:37,599 a history of the Franks and the and it's only online. You can't find 159 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,960 it. It's on this website. No it's not. It's it's a it's 160 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,880 like a really long Greek name. But it's really good if I can just 161 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:56,240 find it here. Oh wait, maybe I linked it here. This is 162 00:19:56,319 --> 00:20:00,759 the yes a snack and I did a whole talk. This t is about 163 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,359 that question to the guy who asked it on the super chat. His name 164 00:20:03,559 --> 00:20:07,720 was Jacob Majors. So here's the talk. Is the papacy subverted by the 165 00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:15,759 Franks? And here it is. It's here's the book I knew I had, 166 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:22,079 Anastasio's Philippides Romanity or Barbarity is the book that you want to read? 167 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,440 Although Unfortunately this book is only online. It is accessible here. Now, 168 00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:33,920 this point is also brought up in most of the scholarly works now that treat 169 00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:40,920 of this period of the Carolinians. So Sashenski mentions it in this Philioqui book. 170 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:47,359 It's probably also in the Papacy and the Orthodox book. I can't remember 171 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,720 I Pop of miyand or from Papadoccus mention it or not. They may or 172 00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:52,720 may not mention it. I can't remember now that I don't think they do, 173 00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:56,359 because that book begins in ten fifty four, so it's not in that 174 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,440 book, but I'm pretty sure it's in this says Jansky book. So let 175 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:17,000 me see anything that's covering the Frankish period nowadays. Typically we'll talk about that 176 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,440 and how different things were at that time in the East and the West. 177 00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:26,680 And in fact it wasn't even the papacy that was really subverting things yet, 178 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,599 in fact, the papacy was on our side, and it was a Carolinians, 179 00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:37,119 for example, that denied the Seventh day Medical Council. But anyway, 180 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,240 all right, so go back to our question or here, and your question 181 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,039 was the basics, So I mean the Orthodox Church, the idea is different 182 00:21:47,079 --> 00:21:49,720 from Protestantism, and that we believe. We don't believe in the solas that 183 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:56,359 many Protestants dues and no sol scripture, no solofide. We believe in a 184 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,680 sacramental realism where the sacraments really do convey the grace that they signify. We 185 00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:07,720 believe in a church governance that's hierarchical and sinodle. So there's apostolic succession and 186 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:14,440 there's councils and synods that govern the church. Uh, there is a good 187 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,559 place for tradition. All of those settings play a role in how we view 188 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,440 Christianity. So we don't go Bible alone. You know, those are the 189 00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:30,480 kind of the main essential elements that different. So teiology is different. Well, 190 00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:33,559 I mentioned I said, I said that we don't believe in solofy day. 191 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:45,279 So so those are the basics, gotcha. So is there, like, 192 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,480 is there something specific like that you want to debate A Now I'm not 193 00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:52,759 gonna lie. I'm not exactly qualified, right, I'm just a volunteer. 194 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,000 Okay. Also, you know, if you if you show me pictures like 195 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,559 that guy dancing, like, I'll be like, yeah, you know, 196 00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:07,559 maybe maybe drawing attention to yourself and and you know, portraying yourself as a 197 00:23:07,599 --> 00:23:15,160 specific kind of sexual orientation as as an attention, rest and worship, right, 198 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,839 That's that doesn't seem very Christian to me in that aspect. So is 199 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,079 there something specific you want to ask a Protestant, especially one who might not 200 00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:30,480 be fully researched but willing to at least take a start. Well, I 201 00:23:30,519 --> 00:23:33,799 don't think. Yeah. So, like, people don't have to debate on 202 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,039 here. You can if you want to. It's just the way we do 203 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,599 it around here is there's always an open form for people to debate if they 204 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,599 want to, but they could also ask questions. So if you feel more 205 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,240 comfortable asking questions, you're more than welcome to do that too. But I 206 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,200 mean, you know, again, like I think if we were to pick 207 00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:57,440 two doctrines that Protestantism typically or historically has kind of grounded itself on, it's 208 00:23:57,519 --> 00:24:03,039 the idea that ultimately salvation is through faith in Christ alone or justification by faith 209 00:24:03,079 --> 00:24:07,559 alone, and the idea that the ultimate guide for the church is just the 210 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,599 Bible alone, or the final authority is the Bible alone, or how our 211 00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:15,240 Protestants want to say that. And you know, the Orthodox Church, the 212 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:21,440 Orthodox position would disagree from the outset with those two ideas, and we would 213 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,519 say that salvation is by grace, but it's something that begins at the point 214 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:32,720 of first yes, first believing, and then repenting, being baptized, being 215 00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:37,000 received in the church. Then there's a process of salvation, which is working 216 00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:41,480 out your salvation with your and trembling, becoming holy as Paul talks about. 217 00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:45,880 And then for us, salvation is ultimately theosis or deification, which is to 218 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:51,440 participate in the uncreated energies of God. And it's not merely a legal standing, 219 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,920 which you know, your disposition, God's disposition changes based on your legal 220 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,359 standing. That's kind of an essential element of justification by faith alone. So 221 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,839 we would pretty much disagree with all of that. And you know, pretty 222 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,920 much the only thing maybe that we have in common with Protestants that that in 223 00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:11,039 terms of the essentials is I mean, we don't even think that Protestants have 224 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,960 the Doctor of the Trinity, correct. I guess the only thing we really 225 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:18,119 agree on might be just the deity of Christ. But beyond that there's not 226 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,400 I mean, I know a lot of Protestants, I guess confess the virgin 227 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,200 birth. So there's not a whole lot of areas of actually of overlap. 228 00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:32,240 Yeah, okay, so yeah, I think that we have definitely common ground 229 00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:37,480 on the deity of Christ and the virgin birth. But as as far as 230 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:44,359 the you know, saying that the Bible is the only authority, I'm definitely 231 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:52,039 one of those people who is fully in that camp. I'm probably gonna end 232 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,200 up if I'm going to formulate good questions, I might just kind of sit 233 00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:59,599 back as more of a listener and propose questions. Then if that's if that's 234 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,319 going to be better, I'd like to grab a few things. Is in 235 00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:07,400 your mind the Bible. Let's say, if I were to pick versus out 236 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,720 of the Bible and ask about them in this conversation, is that something that 237 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:18,279 we can agree on as at least where you know truth resides or is that 238 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,920 yeah, we we would say, I think, yeah, we affirm the 239 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:26,400 Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is a divine revelation from the 240 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,240 person of the Logos. I don't believe the Bible contains errors, so I 241 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:34,880 think we might agree there. Yeah. No, I'm Emerson on the on 242 00:26:36,039 --> 00:26:38,640 the breath, you know, God breathed in inspiration of the of this Holy 243 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:44,519 Scripture, and and that you know, God preserves it through time as like 244 00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:48,240 his word will never you know, fade away. Yeah, one difference there 245 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,400 was is that we would say that the Bible isn't strictly speaking the Word. 246 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,440 There's a sense in which you can speak of it that way. But the 247 00:26:56,559 --> 00:27:00,000 Word of God is a person, not a book. It's the second person 248 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,160 some of the Godhead, who is the Word of God and Jesus himself. 249 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,519 And the Gospel of John says you search the scriptures because you think that it's 250 00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:08,799 in them that you have eternal life, when it's the day that bear witness 251 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,559 of me. So me being the divine person of Christ, the second person 252 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,319 of Godhead, the Bible being kind of a letter or a book that attests 253 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,960 to him. That doesn't mean that the Bible is degraded or that it doesn't 254 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:25,119 have you know, inspiration and authority. But it's kind of like if you 255 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,359 read a letter describing me, that's different than knowing me, you know, 256 00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:34,119 in a relational way. So for us it's the same analogy there to distinguish 257 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,200 between. Can I point out when others think too sure there will be different 258 00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:48,240 between Protestants and Orthodox the level of esteem and kind of ranking of the scriptures 259 00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:53,319 is also different. Whereas I remember as a protest that you just it's all 260 00:27:53,400 --> 00:28:00,480 the scripture, it's all the same level. There's certainly a level of dignity 261 00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:06,079 and ranking among the scriptures within orthodoxy, where the Gospels take the highest and 262 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,079 the epistles than the Psalms and the Old Testament readings and stuff like that. 263 00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:17,599 I'm familiar with that hierarchy. That's definitely something that I experienced. So I 264 00:28:17,759 --> 00:28:22,279 was born into a Lutheran church, and so oh yeah, it's a new 265 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,480 experience. I was Lutheran too, so yeah, yeah, So you know, 266 00:28:26,599 --> 00:28:30,160 Goffels, you stood for the reading of any Gospel even though and then 267 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:36,200 the Psalms and the other elements didn't have the same level of respect, you 268 00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:38,319 know, as part of the tradition, I guess is the best way to 269 00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:45,240 state it. Right now, I'm attending a church that obviously it's not Lutheran 270 00:28:45,799 --> 00:28:48,880 due to the fact that the Lutheran Church started voting on Bible things, and 271 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,240 so my family was like, you know, we probably shouldn't vote on whether 272 00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:56,640 the Bibles right or not, because that's not how that works. We don't 273 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,400 vote on the Bible. So that was the eve. So yeah, yeah, 274 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,400 yeah, so it was it happened when I was in like middle school 275 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,480 and things like that, so you know, like the specific details and which 276 00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:15,279 which part of the luther and churchosen is lost to me having to go back 277 00:29:15,319 --> 00:29:18,680 and google. So and the other thing you probably won't have a problem is 278 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:29,000 a Lutheran is iconography, because in Lutheran churches there's in many of the churches 279 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,960 iconography which is very different than the kind of Reformed and Calvinists which would be 280 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,079 iconoclass. So just to suss that, I'm just bringing that up, just 281 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:47,039 to basically make a distinction that many many Protestants are iconoclass, but not all 282 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:56,119 Anglicans Lutherns. Actually don't know about the Methodists. They're so divided they might 283 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,480 might be both. I don't know, m but just to make those distinctions. 284 00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:03,640 Day, if you want to no, that was that. Those are 285 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,160 good points, I mean, And so did you want to continue discuss your 286 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,079 did you want to step back and formulate some some questions. I don't want 287 00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:15,480 to take up other people times that people are asking to be part of this 288 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,599 and I'm I'm doing I've just got trying to you know, in order for 289 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,640 me to make formulate good questions, I'm trying to understand the landscape. If 290 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,799 you understand, whatever you want to do is find Yeah, just just trying 291 00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:30,519 to understand, you know. So when you talk about the iconography, right, 292 00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:33,640 we're talking about, you know, a historical version of what I used 293 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,079 to why I used to participate in. Can you give me like an example 294 00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:42,279 of how the iconography would exist in Lutheranism. Well, Lutherans typically don't have 295 00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:48,279 a problem with crucifixes and imagery, oh okay, and so the Orthodox Church 296 00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:56,160 has icons everywhere, so gotcha, And so that I can't imagine why crucifixes 297 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,720 would be a problematic like I've heard, Well, there were Reformers didn't like 298 00:31:02,319 --> 00:31:07,279 that kind of stuff. So a lot of the classical Reformers who were Calvinists, 299 00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:11,440 you know, they they typically were iconoclastic, meaning that they didn't like 300 00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:17,240 any created visual imagery of Christ or the apostles. Now they weren't okay with 301 00:31:17,359 --> 00:31:21,599 crosses, but they didn't like crucifixes or icons of saints and so forth. 302 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,480 Gotcha. I got into a debate under one of Seamus is the Freedom Tunes 303 00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:33,559 guy. One of his comments about Catholicism of today, and I started learning 304 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,680 a whole lot about like, Okay, do they actually believe, you know, 305 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,240 in the in fallacy of the Pope? Do you know, do they 306 00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:45,720 worship Mary? And I learned about the three types of worship and things like 307 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:49,359 that they were talking about, and so that was kind of interesting to delve 308 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,839 into because I've you know, you know, in a lot of cases, 309 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,119 you just get told, oh, the Catholics worship Mary, and you go, 310 00:31:56,279 --> 00:32:00,119 Okay, that's bad because that's you know, that's not allowed. And 311 00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:04,640 so when I see something like the image of the version Mary with candles in 312 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,799 front of that, I go, oh, they're idol worshiping, but understanding 313 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,440 it no, I mean the Orthodoxy, yeah, we kind of have a 314 00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:15,480 similar position to Catholics on that point that, you know, we do believe 315 00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:20,160 in the intercession of the saints, that the saints pray for us, and 316 00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:24,720 it's not inappropriate to ask them to pray, and that's essentially what we're doing 317 00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:30,319 when we quote pray to saints. They're not gods or goddesses, but they 318 00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:32,960 do intercede for us, and so that's part of the doctrine of the Communion 319 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,599 of Saints. And of course the queen of the Saints is Mary. We 320 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,079 don't believe in all the Roman Catholic doctrines of immaculate conception and all that, 321 00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:45,319 but we do think that she is the you know, smallest virgin. She's 322 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:51,079 the queen of Heaven, et cetera. So when you say, just to 323 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,680 expand, because I'd like to ask a question, when you say you don't 324 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:59,480 believe in the immaculate conception of Mary or of Jesus, right, So, 325 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,759 maculate conception is a specific Marian dogma in the Roman Catholic Church. It's not 326 00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:07,319 about Christ. Christ is virgin, that's the virgin birth. Yes, maculate 327 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:14,640 conception is a Roman Catholic papal doctrine where the pope declared Mary to be also 328 00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:21,000 preserved from original sin through a specific, unique miracle. Roman Catholics believe that 329 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,240 because of their doctrine of well, their classic I'll say that the classic Latin 330 00:33:25,319 --> 00:33:31,799 doctrine of original sin from the Augustinian period. That's really what influences their belief 331 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,200 in the need for the immaculate conception. We have a bit of a different 332 00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:42,079 idea of what ancestral sin is versus original sin, and so in the Orthodox 333 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,839 conception, there's really no need for the doctrine of the maculate conception. Yeah, 334 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,880 and okay, so we're talking, we're exploring a lot of the spaces 335 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,680 where we agree, right, Like, I don't believe in the maacular conception 336 00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:57,599 of marrit either, and I don't think a lot of processtants. Really No, 337 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:05,039 No, it's a unique Catholicism, dogmatized not that long ago. M 338 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,119 hmm. Okay, I'll do a few pieces of research and if I come 339 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:14,760 up with a cool question. Okay, yeah, I'll back up. You 340 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,079 can pop in my hand or whatever. Sure, pop in anytime you want 341 00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:22,199 to, that's fine. The next in line was Trillist wizard. What's up, 342 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:31,559 Trillist? How you doing? Hey? Jay? Just a quick one, 343 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:39,559 uh huh. If the if the Orthodox believe in miracles and exorcisms outside 344 00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:45,400 of the church, but they also believe there's no salvation outside of the Orthodox 345 00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:50,960 Church, is that not a contradiction? No, because I mean, a 346 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,559 miracle can happen anywhere, and miracles attest to the faith, but they're not 347 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,639 proofs of the faith. And when Jesus talks about the Guy and Mark doing 348 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,239 miracles outside of the College of the Apostles. He says that anyone doing a 349 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,679 miracle in my name will not be apart from us for very long. In 350 00:35:07,679 --> 00:35:12,320 other words, eventually he will most likely come to be amongst us if he's 351 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,719 if he's acting in good faith. And you also have Jonas and John Berrys 352 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:21,480 doing the first two miracles of Moses, so miracles themselves signs of wonders would 353 00:35:21,559 --> 00:35:27,039 not be a contradiction. Somebody dying and being united to the mystical body in 354 00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:31,599 an extra normative way is still not salvation outside the church because they're still being 355 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:37,079 united to Christ like the thief on the cross. So there's there's nobody is 356 00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:51,119 saved outside of Christ, is the point. So if there's Catholics, so 357 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:58,039 you don't believe in any of the miracles that the Catholics have have gone like 358 00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:02,519 while they're alive. Well again, then the guy who's doing exorcisms apart from 359 00:36:02,559 --> 00:36:07,360 the College of the Apostles, right, what does Jesus say? Does Jesus 360 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,079 say, Oh, he's cool. Everybody can do their own thing. Now. 361 00:36:10,199 --> 00:36:15,440 He says that anybody who does a miracle in my name will I think 362 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:21,400 he means most likely soon be amongst us, So that tells us that there 363 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,000 can be miracles outside of the Orthodox Church. God can do those things, 364 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:29,199 But what does that have to do with salvation outside the church. There is 365 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,519 no salvation outside the church. Even Roman Catholics believe that if you're saved quote 366 00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:37,159 outside the church, it's just God uniting you to the mystical body in a 367 00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:42,760 non normative way, so that even they don't believe in quote salvation outside the 368 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,519 church. You're just thinking of church in terms of the visible earthly confines, 369 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,760 and that's not the extent of the mystical body. The mystical body is all 370 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,559 the believers from the foundation of the world until the end of time. I 371 00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:02,599 was just thinking you would have to have salvation to to some of the some 372 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:08,039 of the miracles the saints have done. It's like floating, and I don't 373 00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:12,960 number one, as an Orthodox person, we don't think any of that's necessarily 374 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:15,960 a proof of true religion. I mean a lot of the stuff that goes 375 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,320 on in the so called the so called miracles of the Roman Gallic Church are 376 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,679 delusions and demonic. I mean getting spiritual orgasms from God, floating around and 377 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,719 flying with a host, flying around and saying that Jesus is your boyfriend, 378 00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:32,960 and that's a bunch of delusion. That's not that's not from God. But 379 00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:38,199 then it would it would be it would be a whole conspiracy tunnel that you'd 380 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:45,199 have to go down. If not a conspiracy tunnel. If we're identifying delusion, 381 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:52,400 I mean, why would we think that that's the manifestation of true you 382 00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:54,800 know, divine worship. I mean, this doesn't Jesus point this out when 383 00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,519 he says that wicked generation seeks signs and wonders, and yet no sign is 384 00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:04,199 given to it except the sign of Jonah. So Jesus actually says that if 385 00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:07,920 you're looking for these miracles and signs and wonders, you're just setting yourself up 386 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,000 to be duped and to be deceived anyway. Now, miracles do attend the 387 00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:17,079 true faith, But do you understand that quote miracles or claims of miracles cannot 388 00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:22,519 be the proofs per se, because every religion out there claims that. I 389 00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:28,800 mean, do you think that. I think I think that was because I 390 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,639 haven't seen any miracles personally. But when you study like Lady of Fatimar and 391 00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:37,480 a moving son and things like that, how many witnesses they have and how 392 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,760 many reports kind of well, hold on, let's talk about that one, 393 00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:44,079 right, Let's use that one as an example. So are you aware that 394 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:51,559 around that same time was the first major news story that was completely faked and 395 00:38:51,679 --> 00:38:58,039 it was called the bat People on the Moon. No, I haven't, 396 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,079 I haven't heard about that. So there was a This is a really famous 397 00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:05,239 case, and I think it's like the late eighteen nineties out of Chicago, 398 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,920 the most famous paper in Chicago, like the Chicago Sun or Sun Times or 399 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,440 something like that. Just look up the bat people on the Moon story, 400 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,679 and it was widely believed. And why do people believe it? Well because 401 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:22,679 a newspaper reported that the astronomers and scientists at that time had seen bat people 402 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:30,000 on the moon. And now why would I believe that a village of people 403 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:35,800 out in Portugal or whoever wherever it is, that because they saw a manifestation 404 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,480 or claim to see it. I mean, for all it could it could 405 00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:40,840 have been a completely staged news story, just like the bat people on the 406 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,280 Moon, one of the most famous fake news stories of all time. Now 407 00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:46,400 I'm not saying it is that. I don't know, but my point is 408 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:53,679 that how am I going to base my faith on countless conflicting miracle claims which 409 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,280 don't even make sense and aren't even coherent. This can't be the way that 410 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,679 we're supposed to figure out which is the true religion. And in fact, 411 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,280 if you go to the Gospel of John, when Jesus tells the story of 412 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,280 the guy who's in Hades, and he says, Lord, let me out 413 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:16,000 of here. If I return from the dead, if my brothers see me 414 00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:21,920 come back from the dead, surely they will believe. Does Jesus have the 415 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:27,159 attitude, as many Roman Catholics do, that this sign and wonder miracle will 416 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,280 convince the brothers or does Jesus say something else to him? Do you know 417 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:38,119 the story I'm talking about? Oh? No, because it fits this The 418 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:44,800 example fits this very case. And Jesus says, though one rise from the 419 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:50,360 dead, they will not believe they have the Law and the prophets, Moses 420 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,639 in the prophets. If they won't believe Moses in the prophets, they won't 421 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:58,159 believe though one rise from the dead. That alone, that story alone, 422 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,119 refutes this whole attitude that the way that we know what the true faith is 423 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,920 is if there's like more signs and wonders or more claims of signs and wonders. 424 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,679 And by the way, the story of Fatima doesn't even match up to 425 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,320 what the Romancolic Church has claimed. The Roumancolic Church has claimed over and over 426 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:21,440 and over that they will eventually fulfill the requirements of what our lady said at 427 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,320 Fatima. But if you're in the tradcat world, all the tradcats spend all 428 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:31,079 their time debating the fact that the popes haven't actually done what our lady said 429 00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:37,400 to do at Fatima. So how is that going to be the deciding factor 430 00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:44,360 when Catholics can't even tell us if Fatima has been obeyed or not. Do 431 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:50,880 you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I just think there's just too much 432 00:41:51,159 --> 00:41:54,400 stuff put on top of each other that a con debuncle all of it, 433 00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:00,880 you know, all the miracles within Catholicism and hold on, So why am 434 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:01,760 I supposed to believe? Well? Okay, well, if that's what's going 435 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,360 to prove it or disprove it, like why why Catholicism? Like why not 436 00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:10,119 other religions that claim, I mean, for example, Hindu mystics have much 437 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:15,239 longer than Catholic mystics claimed all kinds of miracles? Does that prove Hinduism? 438 00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:23,960 Okay, well why doesn't it though, because have you gone down the all? 439 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,840 But have you gone down the rabbit hole and debunked all the all of 440 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,719 the yogi's and Sai Baba and all these people in their Mira miracle claims? 441 00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:37,800 I mean, I think the internet will do it for me. Bro I 442 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:43,960 reckon a quick hashtag Punjabi scroll on X. Probably you must be joking. 443 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:54,320 That must be a joke. Miracles from here, miracles from yours? Too 444 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,320 much theology can take one away from God. I'll step down now anyway, 445 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,960 unfinished? Okay, well, hey, those are great questions and I appreciate 446 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:25,119 it. Uh, let's see. Next up was go load goalad got an 447 00:43:25,159 --> 00:43:34,719 unmumn. So we got a lot of people on YouTube talking smack. All 448 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,639 you guys in the chat here talking smack. Hey, don't you guys don't 449 00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:42,599 have to delete his comments? I mean, I appreciate the on point mod 450 00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:45,519 work there, but like, let's get these guys to call in, like 451 00:43:45,639 --> 00:43:50,880 instead of being keyboard warriors. Uh, why don't you guys hop over here 452 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,960 on Twitter and call in golaud? Did you want to talk? What's up? 453 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:59,800 Man? We can't hear you. Man, if you want to talk, 454 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,440 you got to turn permissions on or whatever. There's no sound from you. 455 00:44:05,679 --> 00:44:10,000 Uh, let's see try again. Are you there, I'm mute. 456 00:44:12,519 --> 00:44:15,360 Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Okay, I can hear you. What's 457 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,639 up? I just had a quick question. I see that Orthodox is in 458 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,159 the title. I'm not really trying to debate. I was just looking for 459 00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:25,440 an Orthodox parish. I'm kind of in the south, and I think that's 460 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,519 the only thing we have. I think like forty minutes or so is a 461 00:44:29,639 --> 00:44:32,440 Greek Orthodox, and I just I've been there a few times and it seems 462 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,639 good. But I'm not trying to get skittle a fall, you know. 463 00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:39,960 I don't think most of the Greek churches are that way. You just have 464 00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:46,039 to kind of test them out. So I mean, like you would like 465 00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:51,800 there's also like a Western right ro Court church like almost an hour away. 466 00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:57,760 Is there like a difference between regular records and Western Well, yeah, I 467 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,360 mean they're going to be doing the their version of the the Latin Petrine liturgy, 468 00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:05,239 so it's not going to be like, uh, you know, it's 469 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,199 not going to be the liturgy that you would see at you know, like 470 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:19,360 most Road Corps churches. So no, it's Orthodox churches doing the Latin right 471 00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:23,960 or the Petrine liturgy. But uh, I mean, you know you don't 472 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:28,599 have to give away your address or whatever. But I mean, yeah, 473 00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:30,960 you just just check them. I would just check them all out and see 474 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,840 which is, you know, the best fit for you. You'll know after 475 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,639 a while whether if somebody's liberal or not, they're gonna they'll they'll they'll give 476 00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:51,440 it away really quick. Yeah. And I don't know about whatever you're in 477 00:45:51,519 --> 00:45:52,599 and sucking and said, but I mean, you just go check them both 478 00:45:52,639 --> 00:46:07,239 out. Super essential, William Die says, for ten dollars, does Eric 479 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:13,639 Obara only go on slow mode talk when he talks to you? I don't 480 00:46:13,679 --> 00:46:15,760 know. I haven't watched enough of his stuff. I don't watch Eric Obara 481 00:46:17,159 --> 00:46:22,599 in his other discussions. He talks normally and talks fast. You know, 482 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:28,000 he could have been using some kind of technique of filibustering and you know, 483 00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:30,719 burning out time. I don't know. William Die says he's a new convert. 484 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,199 Well, hey, thank you man, glad to hear that cohort ten 485 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,360 dollars. If we are all church and Paul doesn't want women speaking in church, 486 00:46:39,639 --> 00:46:44,119 women can never speak. This is a checkmate to the invisible church. 487 00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:46,400 That's a good point. Yeah. I mean if church is not any kind 488 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:51,000 of a you know, formal, institutional, liturgical thing, and women are 489 00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,719 not allowed to speak in church, then Protestant should never allow women to speak. 490 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:59,639 That's pretty funny. Nation five dollars, Thank you so much, super 491 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:05,719 Essential. Did you want to say something you have to unmute? Man? 492 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:15,719 No sounds, so maybe you gotta come out, come back in turn on 493 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:24,480 your mic, modern Aposta modern, something you gotta unmute? Hey, j 494 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,400 Yes, sir. So I've been looking into orthodoxy for a little bit and 495 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,960 I think I'm gonna had two vestpers for the first time on Wednesday. But 496 00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:39,360 I wanted to ask about the penal substitution atonement a few Protestant friends. So 497 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,599 I was talking about or talking with, and they were saying, but what 498 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,159 is the laying on of hands on the animal mean if not putting on the 499 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,960 sin on the animal? And I mean they brought up the day of atonement. 500 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,559 I think it's there. It says explicitly that they're putting on the sin 501 00:47:52,679 --> 00:47:58,119 on the animal. Yeah, but is going out okay? So so it's 502 00:47:58,679 --> 00:48:02,280 symbolic okay, doesn't have a substance. It's not a being. It's a 503 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,360 negation. It's an act of the will against the good. So there's no 504 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,320 such thing as quote sin. That's like a thing that you transfer. To 505 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:15,599 transfer something means that that thing has existence. Sin has no existence. Evil 506 00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:22,079 doesn't have being. That's because everything that By the way, Jake, that's 507 00:48:22,119 --> 00:48:28,320 a great point. Maybe you could talk a little bit more about that. 508 00:48:28,519 --> 00:48:32,000 One of the problems too, is that a lot of Protestants, even with 509 00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:37,679 penal substitution or atonement, take on kind of a Manichean notion of sin. 510 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:42,679 They talk about sin nature and give it like a positive existence. Anyways, 511 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,119 I'm just falling up on what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. I was 512 00:48:45,159 --> 00:48:51,679 going to say that to attribute being to evil is Manichean. So everything that 513 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:57,119 exists comes to be and has existence from God, because God created everything, 514 00:48:57,159 --> 00:49:01,079 has said it is good. So evil is a privation on the good. 515 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:06,880 That means it doesn't have actual being, it doesn't have any existence. It's 516 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:08,719 not an essence, it's not a nature. So there's no such thing as 517 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:14,199 a sin nature, and there's no such thing as literally putting sin like some 518 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:20,760 kind of like taint or cloak or substance on top of the scapegoat. It's 519 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:27,639 a symbolic ritual, meaning that the being will die in another person's stead as 520 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,800 the exacting of the penalty of death. And so the analogy to Christ is 521 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:39,039 that Christ willfully chooses to be our ransom are sacrificed. And what that means 522 00:49:39,199 --> 00:49:44,599 is not that the Father damns him or God punishes him, but rather that 523 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:50,519 he willingly undergoes death, meaning the severance of his human soul from his human 524 00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:54,760 body. So there's no divine to divine punishment or hatred or anger going on 525 00:49:54,960 --> 00:50:00,360 here. There's a willful offering of the Son, offering the human humanity after 526 00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:05,880 he's undergone that death, and then resurrecting that humanity. He offers that humanity 527 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,840 to the triad and that offering is of the divine person of the Son giving 528 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,360 that humanity to the Father in the Holy Spirit. So it's a triadic offering 529 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,440 of the human nature after it's been healed and restored. After Christ goes into 530 00:50:17,519 --> 00:50:23,960 Hades, conquers death and resurrects and has the power of death, the power 531 00:50:24,159 --> 00:50:27,280 if you know, if you look in the Red Book of Revelation it says 532 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,480 that he has the keys of death and hades, and so he now in 533 00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:34,800 our nature, has restored it and healed it, meaning that he has power 534 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,639 over death. So that's the ordox conception of Christus victor so to speak, 535 00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:44,199 and Christ having victory over death. And that's also the meaning and the explanation 536 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:51,519 of the offering of the atonement and of the ransom and of the guilt so 537 00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:54,880 to speak. Yeah, that makes sense. I was as a Catholic we 538 00:50:54,960 --> 00:51:00,679 have that interpretation a lot of privation. But when I was reading Religion of 539 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:05,119 the Apostles, I think one of the parts about the Atonement, Father Stephen 540 00:51:05,159 --> 00:51:08,760 writes that that sin does have some ontological sense how it's treated as a disease. 541 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,000 So I don't know if that's like, well, it's an analogy, 542 00:51:13,119 --> 00:51:16,960 right, So diseases exist and you know, bacteria, illness, but it's 543 00:51:17,039 --> 00:51:22,800 still it's an analogy that we make to what evil is or what to to 544 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,760 what sin is. Sin is in the in the Church fathers explicitly only a 545 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,960 move or an action of the will against the good or away from the good. 546 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,119 That's it, okay. And then just to follow up, do you 547 00:51:32,199 --> 00:51:37,760 think his work, and then the Lord of Spirits podcast is good and some 548 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,880 of the other stuff that he's on resources. Right, So you know our 549 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,039 buddies, my friend Lewis and Kai, they've done interviews on their channel with 550 00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:47,840 Father Stephen the Young. I don't know Father Stephen the Young personally. I've 551 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,159 never talked to him. They seem to, you know, appreciate the book. 552 00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:55,800 I've only heard good things, so I don't have any anything critical or 553 00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:00,920 negative to say. So I would imagine if they've given it seal of approval, 554 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,880 it's good. I've not listened to Lord of Spirits, so I can't 555 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:10,840 speak to that. Okay, sounds good, thank you, Yeah, great 556 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:17,079 questions and if you go back, I think too if you go to my 557 00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:23,440 Eclipse channel, not dire Clips, but the other clips channel, which is 558 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:36,840 live streams and absurdities, and there's actually a video specifically on critiquing penal substitution, 559 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:42,639 and one of the key elements it's often overlooked in how to understand this 560 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:50,159 is actually the Byzantine Synod from the eleventh century where they condemn satiricos, and 561 00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:55,400 the condemnation of satiricos via the liturgy actually helps explain why we don't have the 562 00:52:55,519 --> 00:52:59,880 Protestant doctrine of penal substitutions. So if you go over to my clips channel, 563 00:53:00,679 --> 00:53:07,800 it's right here. It's called penal substitution refuted in Byzantium. In It 564 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:12,760 the air, this video will reference both. You can talk. You can 565 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,719 get the Palmezansky book. There's a section in there about it, and there's 566 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:22,360 also a chapter on it in the Papa Dooccus Mayan Norf book, Christian Church 567 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:28,079 in the what's the name of it? Christian East, Christian East in the 568 00:53:28,199 --> 00:53:30,519 Rise of the Papers, this whole chapter on that, and that actually refutes 569 00:53:30,639 --> 00:53:45,880 the penal substitution view Dan Mullitor, what's up? Man? Get it? 570 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:52,679 I mute, Sarah, what's up? I was reading Orthodox dogmatic theology and 571 00:53:54,039 --> 00:54:01,480 it talks about the one second, let me see sure it was Palmazansky or 572 00:54:01,559 --> 00:54:21,400 stuny Alay or Lawsky it is. I get to the cover and uh, 573 00:54:21,639 --> 00:54:23,440 it just talks. I mean, it's a simple question, I guess, 574 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:30,280 not a simple answer. But she talks about the seamlessness of Mary, and 575 00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:34,880 so just is that from an Orthodox perspective? Is that a necessity like that 576 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,719 that belief? And if if so, why I mean like like if she 577 00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,719 wasn't sinless, therefore what and so like because she is sendless. There you 578 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:49,679 know what I'm saying, mask Well, I think as the Mother of God, 579 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,400 she is that they had tokyos, meaning that she was chosen to raise 580 00:54:53,559 --> 00:55:00,719 our Lord from his youth. The idea of her purity would be partly so 581 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:06,719 that she would fulfill and be capable for that role. Now that doesn't mean 582 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,840 that like Jesus didn't know how to act or something like that, like he 583 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:14,719 had to be spanked or something, but just that she would be the pure 584 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,960 vessel first of all, to give birth to him, and also that she 585 00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:22,440 would be his guardian and be the one to raise him. And so that 586 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,559 is a unique status amongst all women in the world. That's why when you 587 00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:30,920 look at the Old Testament you see multiple women who have Old Testament miraculous births 588 00:55:31,079 --> 00:55:37,880 Hannah, you know, Sarah, et cetera. They become pictures of Mary. 589 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:44,480 And so when Mary comes about, she fulfills all of those roles, 590 00:55:44,639 --> 00:55:49,440 all of those types. She becomes the ultimate image of what the idea of 591 00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:52,039 Israel as the bride was supposed to be. So she's kind of like the 592 00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:58,639 Summation and the Telos of Israel as the feminine bride to Yahweh, and so 593 00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:04,760 to be that, I think is partly why she was so graced, and 594 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:10,719 also because in the long term foreknowledge and designs of our Lord, she would 595 00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:15,400 be the Queen of Heaven. If you read Revelations twelve, you know she's 596 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:20,280 pictured pretty clearly as Queen of Heaven, queen of the universe, and that's 597 00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,199 the reality that she will have manifested to the whole universe in the Eschaton. 598 00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:30,480 So it's only appropriate that not only does she be preserved from actual sin again 599 00:56:30,599 --> 00:56:34,599 by grace, but also that she be the spotless Virgin and the ever Virgin, 600 00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:37,079 and as we say in the liturgy right the ever Virgin Mary. And 601 00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:44,679 that's actually typified in certain passages like Psalm forty five, where the queen stands 602 00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,880 next to the King in gold of o fear. That's a Messianic psalm that's 603 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:53,159 talking about Jesus and Mary. Ezeko forty four. The prince exits through the 604 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:58,400 door of the temple and the door remain shut. How does a prince exit 605 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,480 the door and the door remain shut. The prince is the Messiah the Prince 606 00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:06,480 Christ, and that's talking about him being born from Mary, the new Temple, 607 00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:09,840 and so all of us are temples. Jesus is the temple. You 608 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,320 know. Destroy this temple and in three days I'll raise it again. He 609 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:15,880 spoke at the temple of his body, John two, I think, or 610 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,559 not John two. It's a later on in John wh he's already with the 611 00:57:19,559 --> 00:57:24,639 Pharisees. John what eight nine were in there? Uh? Maybe it's seven. 612 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:31,159 But if you go watch my video that I did in response to Isabella 613 00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:37,400 de Luca, it's on YouTube called Arc of the Covenant. Mary is the 614 00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:42,920 Ark of the Covenant. It answers a lot of those questions. All right, 615 00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,159 thank you, Yeah, those are great questions. So that video is 616 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:53,320 called, uh, what is the basis for the veneration of Mary? Or 617 00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:58,280 Saint Mary? The Intercession of the Saints, replied to Isabella de Luca is 618 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:07,960 the name of that video on YouTube. Let's see who was next. We 619 00:58:07,079 --> 00:58:09,559 got a bunch of people who piled in here. I'm trying to remember who 620 00:58:09,679 --> 00:58:30,760 Zora I think was next. You gotta unmute. Yes, Mary is the 621 00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,239 second Eve. All of that is in my video. If people want to 622 00:58:34,239 --> 00:58:36,639 go watch, I can't. It's a forty minute video. I can't repeat 623 00:58:36,639 --> 00:58:39,360 all of that. Yeah, Hi, Jay? Was that for me? 624 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:44,960 Brian was what? No? The response was to people in the chat on 625 00:58:45,079 --> 00:58:47,960 YouTube asking questions, go ahead, Oh no, sorry, I missed a 626 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,199 part where you actually let me in. But thank you? Is it my 627 00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:57,519 turn? Sure? All right? Well the ball goblin. Thank you man, 628 00:58:57,679 --> 00:59:01,280 and see Rachel's in the audience. Hey, Rachel, I'm an admire 629 00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:07,960 of your husband's work and yours as well. Jay, thank you for all 630 00:59:07,039 --> 00:59:10,679 that awesome commentary. Man, I come from you, Sorry, I come 631 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:17,199 to you from Alex Jones and watching your Friday Hour and kind of like the 632 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:23,719 fruit the first caller, Chris I believe his name was, I'm kinda gonna 633 00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:31,000 lend myself to be a punching bag as well, because I don't disagree completely 634 00:59:31,199 --> 00:59:36,239 on anything. But there is a point of contention I did have with this 635 00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:46,480 the sola scriptor I hear from. How if it's only based on scripture? 636 00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:52,440 I currently well, I come from a Protestant background, Evangelical Protestant. But 637 00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:59,079 I don't give myself any name because I basically call myself a student and I'm 638 00:59:59,159 --> 01:00:04,519 learning the biggest thing that I've kind of come into in the past few years 639 01:00:04,639 --> 01:00:09,840 is trying to take the words of the Bible literally wherever it's asked to take 640 01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:15,400 literally, like the Ten Commandments, how it says to follow this, don't 641 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:21,159 do that. And a great teacher on this was a Rob Ski. But 642 01:00:21,199 --> 01:00:24,880 if you're familiar with Rob Ski, but he passed away a few years ago. 643 01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:34,079 But taking a literal approach opened his eyes to the Genesis six giants and 644 01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:37,440 the wars that were fought between them and the Nephelim, when the Watcher, 645 01:00:37,599 --> 01:00:42,239 when they came down to well, look, yeah, I mean people love 646 01:00:42,599 --> 01:00:45,280 to get into the like really you know, speculative type of stuff, and 647 01:00:45,679 --> 01:00:49,199 you know, I have I don't have a problem talking about that, but 648 01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,599 like that's like what a couple verses. I mean, the majority of the 649 01:00:52,639 --> 01:00:58,880 Bible is not about nephem and giants. It's about you know, the New 650 01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,519 Testament stuff that we're talking about. It's about who's the Messiah, what is 651 01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:05,760 the Trinity? You know what I mean. Like, that's the majority of 652 01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:07,599 what's in the Bible. So I'm not trying to knock you or be rude, 653 01:01:07,679 --> 01:01:13,880 but you know, the Bible isn't this thing that kind of comes to 654 01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:17,199 us like in a vacuum. It comes from a historic church that preserved it, 655 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:22,519 handed it down. So you can't really have the Bible without the community 656 01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:25,639 that decided what books go into it. That's a historical reality. It's a 657 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:31,119 historic community. It's part of a tradition. So the Bible actually is a 658 01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:36,199 liturgical book. Most people are surprised to hear this, but it was meant 659 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,159 to be heard in the context of a worship service. It was not primarily 660 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:44,199 meant to be a personal devotional book. It can be that it was not 661 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:49,519 primarily meant to be something that some Protestant orator preaches from and gives you a 662 01:01:49,559 --> 01:01:52,320 bunch of dumb you know, boom er wife jokes or something that like a 663 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,559 lot of pastors do. It's not the purpose of that. It's meant to 664 01:01:55,599 --> 01:02:01,320 be read and heard in the context of liturgical worship. That's I think the 665 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:06,000 element that's missing here. Paul says, the church is the polar and ground 666 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,880 of truth, not the written texts. Jesus says to the Pharisees, you 667 01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:13,400 search the scriptures because you think that it's in them that you have eternal life. 668 01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:21,599 When it's say the bear witness of me. Absolutely, I completely agree. 669 01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:25,159 And the hold on how could you? How could you agree with that? 670 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:30,440 Though? If you're a Protestant. Oh No, I don't. Like 671 01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:34,360 I said, I don't give myself any titles on stuff, especially that I'm 672 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,320 not, you know, one convinced on it. I just come I came 673 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:43,000 from that background. More so, I'm looking into the different interpretations that can 674 01:02:43,079 --> 01:02:46,559 be taken, especially translations. I myself. Yeah, yeah, I don't 675 01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:50,960 give myself any titles. Brother, it's too a big of a thing. 676 01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:55,159 But I come from an Armenian round, which might be think to some. 677 01:02:55,880 --> 01:03:01,719 And the big question kind of lingering in my mind is this right here? 678 01:03:02,719 --> 01:03:08,320 If I were to ask you, when the Bible specifically says to not do 679 01:03:08,639 --> 01:03:17,320 something, is that gonna be categorized as the argument of solo scriptura or else? 680 01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:22,559 Because if the Scripture says to not do something, that technically kind of 681 01:03:22,599 --> 01:03:29,480 makes it into a works. But being from the Bible of scripture, is 682 01:03:29,559 --> 01:03:37,079 there a delineation or distinction between those two? No, Like solar scripture is 683 01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:44,800 a classical Protestant doctrine that the final authority or the sole authority ultimately for the 684 01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,159 church is just the written text in the Bible. That's the doctrine of solar 685 01:03:49,199 --> 01:03:55,039 scriptura. Citing things from the Bible as beliefs or moral requirements or whatever is 686 01:03:55,119 --> 01:03:59,079 not the doctrine solar scripture. Those are two different things. I mean, 687 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,000 we believe that the Ibile teaches all kinds of things of you know, things 688 01:04:02,039 --> 01:04:05,760 you shouldn't do, ten commandments, et cetera. But that's not solar scripture. 689 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:13,079 No, solar scripture is a classical Reformation doctrine from reformers that ultimately the 690 01:04:13,239 --> 01:04:20,159 Church only listens to the written texts. Gotcha, gotcha, brother, There's 691 01:04:20,239 --> 01:04:24,519 so many things going through my mind. More than anything, I'm thankful you 692 01:04:24,639 --> 01:04:28,960 actually, uh let me speak? Sure? Great? Am I ever work 693 01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:32,639 man? Thank you Jay, Thank you Rachel for being here. Give your 694 01:04:32,679 --> 01:04:35,199 husband a nice drink on my on my beef. I actually don't. That's 695 01:04:35,199 --> 01:04:41,679 probably not a good for him. Thanks Matt, Yeah, appreciate that. 696 01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:48,159 Good questions. Let's move on to next up? Is heine? What's on 697 01:04:48,280 --> 01:05:01,360 your mind? Hello? Yes, sir, hi Jay? Thankfully, I'm 698 01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:06,599 I'm a big fan of yours. But I'm a Protestant and what I usually 699 01:05:06,719 --> 01:05:12,440 do is when I argue with Muslims or with Mormons. What I would do 700 01:05:12,599 --> 01:05:15,039 is I would tell them listen, but in the Bible, it's issue. 701 01:05:15,079 --> 01:05:18,119 You're not supposed to to add anything to the Word of God. You're not 702 01:05:18,199 --> 01:05:24,159 supposed to add anything. And then I did a course on basically early Christianity, 703 01:05:24,199 --> 01:05:27,519 and then I realized that that's exactly what Luther did. I mean, 704 01:05:27,559 --> 01:05:31,000 he took you know, they took away from the the Word of God they 705 01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:38,199 hold on. Was that So you understand that when John says that in the 706 01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:43,800 Apocalypse there's not a Bible yet, do you understand that? Yeah? Yeah, 707 01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,199 I do. Yeah, And I think it's sitting in both Moses as 708 01:05:46,239 --> 01:05:48,960 well. So you know, I suppose you could take it to mean just 709 01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:53,639 the apocalypse. Were suppose you could could take it to mean just the writings 710 01:05:53,639 --> 01:05:56,800 of Moses. But then you know, we all we all find all the 711 01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,960 Christians felt in that that one of that's the case. So I think most 712 01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:05,599 people usually take it to mean like the Christian traditions, the posts, the 713 01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:10,480 sign, Where where I am they? So right? So like if you 714 01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:14,079 mean by Luther, I don't know if you mean adding faith alone. Are 715 01:06:14,119 --> 01:06:18,679 you talking about Luther removing the Judo canon, removing the Judo canon. Okay, 716 01:06:20,039 --> 01:06:23,960 yeah, so so yes, and then I realized, okay, you 717 01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:27,360 know I can't really use that that you know, po critical to use that 718 01:06:27,559 --> 01:06:30,440 argument. But then I did a did a course on an ancient Christianity, 719 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:36,079 and what they would you know, what they said is like all the added 720 01:06:36,159 --> 01:06:44,199 liturgy was also added later after the Christianity became the official religion of the Roman 721 01:06:44,239 --> 01:06:48,519 Empire. No, so totally ridiculous. No, we could read the church 722 01:06:48,559 --> 01:06:54,360 fathers talking about the liturgy early on. So like one of the most famous 723 01:06:54,400 --> 01:07:00,800 controversies is the Quarto Desseminarian controversy, which is a controversy about liturgy goal calendars. 724 01:07:00,239 --> 01:07:05,239 So how could liturgy be added centuries later? If there's all these controversies, 725 01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:10,480 we can go read you're an as Justin Marter talking about the liturgy, 726 01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:15,039 talking about the real presence. So this is just silly, okay, because 727 01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:17,559 I will what they said. It's when when the you know, when Constantine 728 01:07:17,559 --> 01:07:23,840 goes for Christians of basilicas, they expanded the liturgy to fitting you read the 729 01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:29,960 Duchy or the Kentucky my my less. But it seems that they only had 730 01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:34,159 two sacraments. They only had communion and baptism, the you know, the 731 01:07:34,239 --> 01:07:39,119 early Christians, the ones. This is an argument from silence, the fact 732 01:07:39,159 --> 01:07:43,280 that the Diddiki, which is not part of scripture, talks about various traditions. 733 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:48,079 I'd be like saying, we shouldn't have a Bible because the the first 734 01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,800 few centuries of the Church, the Church Fathers, they don't list the Canada 735 01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:55,639 Scripture, so we can't have a Bible. So you see how that's not 736 01:07:55,719 --> 01:08:00,519 a very good argument. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's 737 01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:04,239 actually a very good, good objection. Yeah. And the the other thing 738 01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:11,519 I wanted to to to argue with you about is about the confession, because 739 01:08:11,519 --> 01:08:15,320 that was only added in the twelve or thirteenth century. In other words, 740 01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:20,159 the early Christians, they didn't they didn't like you. You pointed out your 741 01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:27,319 podcast, you pointed out that, you know, the CIA used the Catholic 742 01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,079 Church to get information. And since since many you know, in some countries 743 01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:35,279 majority Catholic countries, are very powerful people or you know, the Catholics, 744 01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:40,439 so they're going to confess to something is dark, right to the priests, 745 01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,520 and then and that gives the you know, if the priest gives you to 746 01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,000 the CIA, and that gives the liverage over those people. So what what 747 01:08:46,239 --> 01:08:49,800 what would stop what would stop you know, the kg B from doing that 748 01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:54,319 with the Orthodox priests and those people. So so from that point of view, 749 01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:58,079 I don't think it's I think it's very risky to to confess. And 750 01:08:58,159 --> 01:09:04,000 that's one of my main objects to moving over to Orthodoxy or this idea. 751 01:09:04,199 --> 01:09:09,159 Sorry, So the abuse of something doesn't necessarily negate something, right, A 752 01:09:09,239 --> 01:09:13,159 father abuses being a father, he abuses his family. That doesn't mean we 753 01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:16,319 get rid of fathers. So the abuse of something is not necessarily or can't 754 01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:20,840 be the defeat for the existence of that thing, And everything would be upended 755 01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:25,359 if we went with that kind of argumentation. So the reason for that is 756 01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:28,399 that in the Old Testament, when you brought your sacrifice, you were in 757 01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,279 a way confessing your sin, because depending upon what sin you'd committed, that 758 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:35,960 was associated with different animals and different sacrifices. When John the Baptist is baptizing, 759 01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:41,279 it says and they came to him confessing their sins and being baptized. 760 01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,800 This goes back to the Old Testament. It's not an invention in the twelfth 761 01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:49,359 century. In the early Church, there were different models and different processes for 762 01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:55,439 the how this was done. Sometimes it was a communal confession, sometimes it 763 01:09:55,479 --> 01:10:01,720 was individual So there's different practices and sometimes the church mm hmm consolidates and organizes 764 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:09,399 these principles for oracular confession. But Jesus says in the at the end of 765 01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,319 Gospel of John when he breathes on the apostle, I think it's John twenty 766 01:10:12,359 --> 01:10:15,199 one, he says, whoever sends you remitted the remitted, whoever sends you 767 01:10:15,239 --> 01:10:19,239 retain to retained. So breathing on them commits that transmits the ability to forgive 768 01:10:19,319 --> 01:10:24,199 sense. So how are you going to have that happen if you don't confess 769 01:10:25,239 --> 01:10:29,439 and have your sins remitted? Yeah, well, I think I think the 770 01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,399 approach is to together directly to God and not to commit to confess. Okay, 771 01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:41,319 but did you did you hear what I said? Though? Why would 772 01:10:41,399 --> 01:10:45,479 you? Why would Jesus breathe on the apostles and say, whoever sends you 773 01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:47,520 remit, they're remitted. Who Ever sends you retain they retained. If he 774 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:51,560 weren't transmitting an actual power to do that, why didn't he just say, 775 01:10:53,119 --> 01:10:55,159 now everybody can just pray to God. We don't you don't. You don't 776 01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:59,000 need me, You don't need these apostles. There's no reason to breathe on 777 01:10:59,079 --> 01:11:04,720 them and tell them that sorry, we we we that's written. I'll have 778 01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:09,840 to look look to that. I think it's John twenty one. You don't 779 01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:15,640 you've not heard of this. I've written all Bibles. I must have. 780 01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,359 I must have come across it. But you know, it just has to 781 01:11:17,399 --> 01:11:20,880 look like a bit more interested. So do you think that the pots and 782 01:11:21,039 --> 01:11:24,920 basically just took that out, you know, they just they just cut that 783 01:11:25,039 --> 01:11:33,479 out that practice. Yeah, okay, all right, thanks, thanks, 784 01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,199 I appreciate it. I was just wanted, you know, I wanted to 785 01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:43,880 know what you think about these these objections. See we just read this, 786 01:11:44,640 --> 01:12:11,199 uh the other day in the liturgy. Maybe it's twenty twenty. Yeah, 787 01:12:11,359 --> 01:12:16,720 so it's John twenty and he says it's the incident where there's where Thomas is 788 01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:23,479 doubting. And this also speaks to the earlier question about signs and miracles too, 789 01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:28,399 and it says the disciples said, we have seen the Lord. Unless 790 01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:30,640 I see his handprints in the tone and the nails put my finger in it, 791 01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,239 I will not believe, Thomas says, and after eight days this, 792 01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:38,399 disciples were gathered again. Thomas came to you, just said, with the 793 01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:42,800 doors being shut, peace to you. And he said it Thomas, put 794 01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,960 your finger here, put your hand and put it in my side. Do 795 01:12:45,039 --> 01:12:49,920 not be unbelieving, but believe. And Thomas said, my Lord and my 796 01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:54,640 God, which proves to deed of Christ. Thomas, you have seen me, 797 01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:56,560 and yet you have believe. Blessed for those who have not seen it 798 01:12:56,680 --> 01:13:02,079 yet have believe. Oh wait, where's the where's breathing on them? Yeah, 799 01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:04,680 so Jesus said it again to them. Peace be into you. As 800 01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:10,880 a father sent me, I sent you. That's Apostolic succession. When he 801 01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,760 said this, he breathed on them and said, receive the spirit. If 802 01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:15,119 you forgive the sins of any, they're forgiven. And if you retain the 803 01:13:15,159 --> 01:13:17,359 sins of any, they were retained. So this is part of the office 804 01:13:17,399 --> 01:13:24,359 of the Keys. So there you go. John twenty Okay, thank you, 805 01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:28,600 thank you very much, because you know what I'm going to do is 806 01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,079 then I'm going to start my own my impostant denomination. Just seeing the two 807 01:13:32,359 --> 01:13:40,399 two sacraments and using the Catholic Yeah, that's funny. Well, now you 808 01:13:40,399 --> 01:13:45,119 should also include the idea that you alone have the ability to forgive the sins, 809 01:13:45,239 --> 01:13:51,119 so you should say that you alone possessed the power as well. Millis 810 01:13:51,279 --> 01:13:59,920 Mills, Oregon is not resisting. Ten dollars, Jay, thank you for 811 01:13:59,960 --> 01:14:03,000 the apologetics as a Protestant until you debate a redeemed Zoomer. There we go. 812 01:14:03,279 --> 01:14:06,399 Nice to hear that my wife and I am becoming catechumens. We became 813 01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:10,680 catechum as last Sunday, Glory got hey, glad to hear that organ is 814 01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:15,399 not resisting much appreciate it. Propane two thousand and one, five dollars. 815 01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:21,439 Do you have any thoughts on apologetics from hermeneutic consistency. I'm not sure what 816 01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:29,840 you mean against autonomous systems and obscure theonomous ones. There is rarely, if 817 01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:34,399 ever, at binding authoritative body in history, let alone a providentially guided one 818 01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:38,680 to preserve these doctrines. Well, I mean we just read right here. 819 01:14:39,399 --> 01:14:42,439 Whoever sends you remit, they're remitted. Whoever sends you retain, they're retaining. 820 01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,640 He hears you. Here's me. So this has what what relevance does 821 01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:49,199 this have to us? If there's not successors to the apostles who have this 822 01:14:49,319 --> 01:14:58,600 ability. So what do you mean there's no providential system to bind people. 823 01:14:59,319 --> 01:15:03,319 There is. That's what the church is. So I'm not trying to be 824 01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:08,720 rude propane. I'm just saying, like church history answers your question, and 825 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:15,159 the existence of overseers in the church, in synods and in councils do that 826 01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:19,079 very thing. Michelle Newday, twenty five dollars. How do you approach non 827 01:15:19,119 --> 01:15:25,800 believers? I mean it depends on your station in life and how you what 828 01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:30,680 you do. I mean we approach people typically here via internet stuff because of 829 01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:33,880 a large audience. I don't typically like go out door to door, you 830 01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:38,199 know, handing out tracks or something like that. I mean people can do 831 01:15:38,319 --> 01:15:42,880 that. You know, there are people who make orthodox tracts. Nothing wrong 832 01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:46,840 with that, But it really just depends on your station in life, who 833 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:53,199 you are, who year around, you know what you're doing. So you 834 01:15:53,279 --> 01:15:58,239 know, if you're at work, you approach your coworkers who are unbelievers in 835 01:15:58,359 --> 01:16:01,720 a way appropriate to being a coworker. You know, you try to live 836 01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:06,600 virtuously, invite them to church. That kind of stuff. Not everybody has 837 01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:11,880 to debate. Not everybody has the same skill sets, gifts, etc. 838 01:16:12,159 --> 01:16:15,359 There's all kinds of different ways to go about doing that, So do it 839 01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:19,600 in the way that's appropriate to you and your skill set in your station in 840 01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:23,640 life. Right, some people have the gift of mercy. So if you 841 01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:27,079 have the gift of mercy, then your job is to be merciful to people, 842 01:16:27,199 --> 01:16:30,800 and that will convert people. Don't try to debate your parents, don't 843 01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,960 try to debate your boss. Don't try to argue with people who have authority 844 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,319 over you. It's a waste of time. It's never gonna work. It 845 01:16:36,359 --> 01:16:43,159 doesn't happen that way. Show deference and respect and live virtuously, and you'll 846 01:16:43,199 --> 01:16:47,560 convert way more people than arguing and debating. Now, some people have the 847 01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:51,479 ability to argue and debate. Some people have that skill set. Nothing wrong 848 01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:57,359 with that either. It just depends on you and your unique situation. What's 849 01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:06,279 up, Mills yet? I'm mute, man, Mills, did you want 850 01:17:06,279 --> 01:17:14,600 to talk? All right, we'll move on, Sean. What's up? 851 01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:23,640 Sean? I was hoping Elijah would come in here since he was joking around 852 01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:30,000 on the on Twitter. Hell, you know what something man? Oh? 853 01:17:30,319 --> 01:17:35,279 So, I just had a question about so I got but the question of 854 01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:42,560 why was the thief the post saved. Can you mute the computer man exactly? 855 01:17:43,159 --> 01:17:51,600 Oh yeah, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So my parts and 856 01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,319 friends will always ask me, okay, well, if you're not staved by 857 01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:59,399 faith alone, why was it the orthodox I'm sorry, why was the thief 858 01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:01,840 on the cross save? Because he repented? So repentance is a good work. 859 01:18:02,119 --> 01:18:05,279 Jesus says, this is the work of God that you believe in him, 860 01:18:05,279 --> 01:18:08,560 whom he has, who he has sent. So faith is also a 861 01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:13,880 work. So repenting and believing our works. Yeah, but then it will 862 01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,920 also be like ook. But he was a baptized. Yeah, but that's 863 01:18:17,119 --> 01:18:24,279 that's an extra normative situation where he's repenting and he's saved in united to Christ 864 01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:28,520 without baptism. That's not the norm for everyone else. So for the most 865 01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:33,720 part, for the most part, everybody will be expected to be baptized and 866 01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:38,479 be united in the normative way. So the fact that there are extra normative 867 01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:45,960 ways has nothing to do with proving justification by faith alone. Go ahead, 868 01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:50,359 Okay, well it's gonna say it seems correct me if I'm wrong. But 869 01:18:50,399 --> 01:18:56,159 it's kind of tendency and Protestantism. You find an exception to the rule and 870 01:18:56,199 --> 01:19:00,119 then make it the rule exactly, which is very odd to me that, 871 01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:05,600 well, obviously it's an extenuating circumstance, an exception of the rule, and 872 01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:11,159 the process say well, well then let's just make it the rule. So 873 01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:17,319 what in your mind, Jay, or are guest here Sean, what causes 874 01:19:17,399 --> 01:19:19,920 one to kind of think that way? That like, if you're find an 875 01:19:20,039 --> 01:19:26,199 extraordinary circumstance to make a general rule that would apply to all from well, 876 01:19:26,279 --> 01:19:30,239 it's based on the assumption that salvation has only had through quote faith alone, 877 01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:36,720 and so that would somehow disprove the necessity of works for baptism. And it's 878 01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:42,640 all wrongheaded because salvation is first of all, not based on quote faith alone. 879 01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:46,000 And when Paul's talking about justification by faith apart from works, he's not 880 01:19:46,159 --> 01:19:49,159 saying he's some of the works of the law. He's not saying that there's 881 01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:51,920 no good works. In fact, he says in Corinthians that the only faith 882 01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:57,319 that saves is faith working through love. That's Paul okay. So Paul right 883 01:19:57,359 --> 01:20:00,479 there is telling you that he's not teaching the Cloud School Reformation doctrine of faith 884 01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:05,760 alone. So once that's removed, the point that Jesus says is that faith 885 01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:12,680 is a work. Therefore, the thief on the cross believing is what's a 886 01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:15,600 good work. His repentance is what's a good work. And those are the 887 01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:17,560 things that unite him to Christ. And had he have the opportunity, he 888 01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:23,279 would have been baptized, he would not have disobeyed. So yeah, there's 889 01:20:23,319 --> 01:20:27,079 there's no like we believe in the Orthodox Church that there's baptism by desire. 890 01:20:27,359 --> 01:20:31,279 There's baptism of blood, which is people who are martyred and they're not yet. 891 01:20:31,319 --> 01:20:34,720 You know, catechumens who get martyred, they're considered baptized in their blood, 892 01:20:35,079 --> 01:20:40,239 baptism of desire. The thief on the cross has baptism of desire, 893 01:20:40,319 --> 01:20:45,439 so he is baptized. Oh kah, that makes sense. And then I'm 894 01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,520 also I had a conversation with some like Mormon scholar named Robert Boylet. I 895 01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,399 don't know if he's heard of him. I have not. I've only read 896 01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:58,479 Talmadge. That's the only one of the Mormons I've read. Okay, kind 897 01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:00,239 of a modern day scholar for the Mormon Church. But he would I had 898 01:21:00,239 --> 01:21:04,359 a conversation with him on like Facebook Live or something like that, and he 899 01:21:04,399 --> 01:21:09,880 would he would say that Justin Martyr in his first apology claim to believe in 900 01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:14,840 more than one God. Well, the word God, as we pointed out 901 01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,439 in all the lectures and interviews with doctor bo Branson, is a generic term. 902 01:21:19,079 --> 01:21:23,079 It can refer to angels, it can refer to demons, it can 903 01:21:23,119 --> 01:21:27,000 refer to humans, and it can even pick out different things in the triad. 904 01:21:27,119 --> 01:21:29,439 So it can pick out a divine person, it can pick out the 905 01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:31,960 divine nature, it can pick out divine energies and operations and attributes. So 906 01:21:32,079 --> 01:21:36,920 there's no single reference to the word God. And so when we say in 907 01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:41,279 the Creed, for example, we believe in God from God God, there 908 01:21:41,399 --> 01:21:45,359 is picking out two hypostases. Right, So, but does that mean that 909 01:21:45,359 --> 01:21:49,439 we're polytheists. No, however, Mormons are polytheists, and Justin Marter is 910 01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:54,720 not a polytheist. Okay, that makes sense. I appreciate you. Yeah, 911 01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:58,840 so look up the doctor Branson's talks on the monarchy of the Father, 912 01:21:59,399 --> 01:22:05,079 and that would be sufficient to refute the Mormon notion of polytheism. Okay, 913 01:22:05,359 --> 01:22:16,680 good questions there, Joseph. By the way, if you guys would hit 914 01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,640 like and share, you can also support the stream via the super chat function. 915 01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:25,800 Superchats are done here on stream labs. Stream labs is the best way 916 01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,760 here for sending your questions, your super chats, your support right there. 917 01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:32,560 And also, as you noticed, there is a qr code that is my 918 01:22:33,239 --> 01:22:36,000 bitcoin support wallet. If you want to support via a bitcoin you can as 919 01:22:36,039 --> 01:22:41,439 well using this wallet here. And if you don't have the QR code stuff 920 01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:44,760 handy, you can also use the bigcoin wallet address in the show description. 921 01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:54,680 Joseph, did you want to make a point? Yeah, you know, 922 01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:00,880 Jesus gave the guarantee of that one group written about the Book of Revelation that 923 01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:06,880 their names would not be blood where he talks about if you add or take 924 01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:10,680 away from the Book of Revelation, you will not have a share in the 925 01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:16,960 Tree of Life and in the White City the future. So it is you're 926 01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:21,640 cutting your salvation, you're cutting out so a lot of your question I can't 927 01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:33,119 hear. Go ahead, can you hear me out? Good? Yeah, 928 01:23:33,199 --> 01:23:53,159 try again, go ahead. I heard something about not blotting out from the 929 01:23:53,239 --> 01:23:56,479 Tree of Life in the Book of Revelation. I'm aware of this, and 930 01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:01,720 what's what what are you saying? And then Jesus guaranteed that one group that 931 01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,359 their names would never be blotted out of the Book of Life. Reading about 932 01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:09,119 in the Book of Revelation too, Maybe it's in chapter two or chapter three. 933 01:24:09,319 --> 01:24:13,520 I'm familiar with it. What about it? So it is possible to 934 01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:17,680 lose your salvation if you're a believer in Christ, you know. So, 935 01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:21,880 I don't think that just because you're saved, that you're going to be having 936 01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:29,079 internal life, unless, of course Jesus himself tells you you're gonna Yeah, 937 01:24:29,079 --> 01:24:31,760 I mean, we don't believe in the Protestant doctrine of you know, once 938 01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,960 saved, always saved, would we would not believe that. Yeah, it's 939 01:24:36,039 --> 01:24:41,479 right there. That very easy to figure out that it is possible to lose 940 01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:44,920 your salvation as a believer in christis right in many different places. Now, 941 01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:48,600 yeah, and I'm not trying to be well and I'm trying to be read 942 01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,439 to. But you say that you're a prophet. How do you believe that 943 01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:56,039 you're a prophet. I'm not trying to be mean, But there's no more 944 01:24:56,079 --> 01:25:00,159 prophets today. Since two thousand and nine, the Lord has used the gift 945 01:25:00,199 --> 01:25:03,239 of prophecy that I carry. It's one of the gifts of the spirit that 946 01:25:03,279 --> 01:25:06,760 I carry. You know thousands of times he's told me the future in different 947 01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:12,920 situations that has come in the past. So the five fold ministry written about 948 01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:16,720 and if he's just four to eleven is still at play basically, if you 949 01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:21,960 will, well, uh, in the in the period, in the period 950 01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:29,319 when Paul was writing and talking to people who were receiving direct inspiration and could 951 01:25:29,359 --> 01:25:31,640 speak for God, like the apostles or like people in the Book of Acts 952 01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,239 that we see, that's the time where Paul's writing that. But we also 953 01:25:35,319 --> 01:25:41,439 have predictions, for example in Zachariah where when the Messianic era comes, there 954 01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:45,840 won't be prophecy and anybody who claims to prophesy will be stoned or will be 955 01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:49,680 excommunicated because there is no new, ongoing divine revelations. We don't need profits 956 01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,720 anymore in the church because we're in the era of the Kingdom. Why would 957 01:25:53,720 --> 01:26:00,760 we need profits? Well, I mean, the if you just four eleven 958 01:26:00,119 --> 01:26:04,239 ministry structures right there, I just answered that. I just I just answered 959 01:26:04,279 --> 01:26:09,159 that. I mean you have to take that lure. I don't understand how 960 01:26:09,199 --> 01:26:11,079 you can say, oh, that's not for today. Did you not hear 961 01:26:11,279 --> 01:26:15,319 anything that I just said? Did you not hear anything I said, Yeah, 962 01:26:15,359 --> 01:26:17,159 I understand, But no you don't. I mean, did you not 963 01:26:17,279 --> 01:26:23,880 hear what I said? Yeah? I mean what did I say? The 964 01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:30,039 zachar I think, is no something that I haven't heard. When Paul wrote 965 01:26:30,119 --> 01:26:34,399 that to the Ephesians, that was in a period when there was still ongoing 966 01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:39,720 divine revelation. The apostles were still alive. That mean any that meant, 967 01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:45,439 anything that they talked about was the words of God because they had that authority 968 01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:48,840 as appointed directly by Christ. He who hears you hears me right. And 969 01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:55,159 there's there's ongoing revelation from the from Pentecost and so forth. But when the 970 01:26:55,319 --> 01:27:00,319 last apostle died, there's no more divine revelations and prophets. It was once 971 01:27:00,399 --> 01:27:04,520 for all committed to the saints. So how can you be a prophet and 972 01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:09,600 be speaking by the Holy Spirit when we're already told, we already know that 973 01:27:10,159 --> 01:27:15,079 the office of the prophet is not necessary anymore. Well, it's simple. 974 01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:18,039 Yeah, I have two verses to give to you. First, one is 975 01:27:18,119 --> 01:27:20,640 that what Jesus spoke, anybody who believes in me, you'll do the same 976 01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:25,199 things and even greater. Basically, yeah, but you're not taken into it 977 01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:30,239 one, but you're just assuming that you're just assuming that that's you're assuming that 978 01:27:30,319 --> 01:27:33,920 that's for all time and not for a specific time. So once the revelation 979 01:27:34,199 --> 01:27:40,760 was done, I don't understand how you can just say, oh, that's 980 01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:44,279 not for today because of all the things I just said, because there is 981 01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:49,359 no new revelations once the last apostle died. As Jude says, the faith 982 01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:53,920 once for all delivered to the saints, so there's no need for any new 983 01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:58,920 revelations or prophets. What's that reference in Jude that you're talking about. It's 984 01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,840 the faith once for all delivered to the saints. So at the very beginning, 985 01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:09,600 let me leave you with one more thing. There is another where every 986 01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:14,479 word in every deed we do as believers must be in the name of Jesus. 987 01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:18,640 So obviously we must hear from Jesus himself and speak his living oracles. 988 01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:24,119 There's another Bible verse about living as oracles of God. I don't know what 989 01:28:24,239 --> 01:28:28,359 the reverence is, but yeah, but that doesn't That doesn't mean that you're 990 01:28:28,399 --> 01:28:32,479 getting new divine inspiration. It means that you are becoming conformed to the person 991 01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:36,800 of Christ, participating in his divine life. Yeah, sanctification is part of 992 01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:40,960 it. But if Jesus wants the propheest out of me in twenty twenty four, 993 01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:45,560 he could do it at the Holy Spital, tells me a prophecy this. 994 01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:50,439 This is the same arguments that the Mormons make. If that were actually 995 01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:57,000 the case, we wouldn't actually be able to confirm what scripture was or the 996 01:28:57,119 --> 01:29:04,000 teachings because you could always just say, whoa the cannon and revelation and props. 997 01:29:04,039 --> 01:29:09,720 He is not closed, so he can give me new stuff. Right, 998 01:29:10,239 --> 01:29:15,600 So it's not about the canon. It's about the spirit. I mean, 999 01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:19,279 how can we follow the spirit without hearing him and moving with him? 1000 01:29:19,279 --> 01:29:24,840 Like we don't know that? I mean, you think that it's a spirit 1001 01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:28,239 and maybe you have to test the spirits, jay, I mean, the 1002 01:29:28,319 --> 01:29:30,039 Holy Spirit has to confess to me that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. 1003 01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:34,279 He tells me, go to food Lion here in Greensboro, North Carolina, 1004 01:29:34,399 --> 01:29:38,439 prophesied the lady. You know that you're going to see it about three 1005 01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:40,680 seconds three too, when he counts it down and there she is in front 1006 01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:44,119 of me. That's that's not that's not how this works. From a demon 1007 01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:47,239 Jay. If he tells me it's from yourself, It's from your own mind 1008 01:29:47,359 --> 01:29:50,880 and heart, that's where it's from. If I hear his still small voice 1009 01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:55,560 telling me, Joseph, that lady right there that you're looking at, that's 1010 01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:59,119 you. Baby boy has the baby boy inside of her. That's you. 1011 01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:01,760 And she doesn't even look pregnant. And I say, ma'am you ever, 1012 01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:05,760 baby Wing, how did you know? I haven't told anybody because the Holy 1013 01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:09,640 Spirit told me. Man, he's real. God loves you. I mean, 1014 01:30:11,039 --> 01:30:18,119 Ricky, what's up? Man? Yeah? And I'm not trying to 1015 01:30:18,119 --> 01:30:25,159 be mean to that guy, but there's no way for either him or anyone 1016 01:30:25,239 --> 01:30:30,199 else to discern or to delineate between whether that is really God, a demon, 1017 01:30:30,399 --> 01:30:34,000 or his own heart telling him that his own emotions and feelings. And 1018 01:30:34,079 --> 01:30:39,399 that's why the Orthodox Church is very different when it comes to this versus Protestants 1019 01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:43,600 or Roman Catholics, who are also the proto charismatics. By the way, 1020 01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:48,119 with all of the insane histrionic women's saints who believe they're having spiritual orgasms and 1021 01:30:48,159 --> 01:30:51,600 all this nonsense, this is the same delusion. And I'm not trying to 1022 01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:55,399 be mean to that guy, but I'm just pointing out that go ahead, 1023 01:30:56,159 --> 01:31:01,359 five way. I was in a chapel and he kind of evangelical, non 1024 01:31:01,399 --> 01:31:13,279 denominational Christianity people were constantly claiming this and it was just anarchy like like people 1025 01:31:13,319 --> 01:31:15,399 were trying to one up each other, like no, God told me this, 1026 01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:19,840 and like and so it was almost like the way that you see like 1027 01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:26,760 the left, like inplos and destroys itself right where it's like point of privileged, 1028 01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:30,880 point of no, you're violating the no, you didn't use the This 1029 01:31:30,079 --> 01:31:38,479 was happening in evangelicalism because everybody was claiming to have these gifts and prophecies from 1030 01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:42,000 the Holy Spirit. And keep in mind, Cobridy Chapel came out of Four 1031 01:31:42,039 --> 01:31:46,800 Square Church and Pentecostalism, so they were definitely a lot of those kind of 1032 01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:50,800 spiritual gifts. And we're all contradicting each other. And so you know, 1033 01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:56,159 my friend Ryan and I came up this whole thing that like we could do 1034 01:31:56,239 --> 01:32:00,520 a whole sketch comedy on where it was like X Men powers and they were 1035 01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:04,680 like, well, my you know, my spiritual gift of laser beam eyes 1036 01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:11,800 right like, and everybody's like fighting each other and through each other. Right, 1037 01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:15,479 if you go to any charismatic church or pentegostal church, the first thing 1038 01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:18,239 you'll notice is the confusion. And we're told in Corinthians God is not the 1039 01:32:18,279 --> 01:32:24,520 author of confusion. God has always had liturgical worship, even when there were 1040 01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:30,119 living, ongoing prophets in the Old Testament. Right, Jesus is the prophet 1041 01:32:30,239 --> 01:32:32,640 of prophets. How did Jesus worship? Was he rolling around on the floor 1042 01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:38,520 acting like a dog, barking, giggling and acting like a buffoon and knocking 1043 01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:43,119 people down with you know, his his sport coat like Benny Han. No, 1044 01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:46,000 he went to liturgical worship at the synagogue because he's the God of the 1045 01:32:46,039 --> 01:32:49,760 Old Testament who gave liturgical worship. He didn't give a bunch of idiots rolling 1046 01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:55,279 around and barking and acting like loons. So that has nothing to do with 1047 01:32:55,399 --> 01:32:59,600 biblical religion at all. Yeah, And I'd also asked Joseph too, in 1048 01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:05,640 the spirit of orderliness, what man are you accountable to? So we Orthodox 1049 01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:11,520 believe God speaks to us, we have a personal relationship with God. But 1050 01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:16,159 we've talked about this. I realize that I'm constantly in delusion, and so 1051 01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:20,119 I have a spiritual father, like you know, in light of kind of 1052 01:33:20,199 --> 01:33:25,600 virtue ethics, that I take these things too, like I don't lean on 1053 01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:28,680 my own understanding and be like, well God told me this and this came 1054 01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:33,000 true, and I you know it, says Scripture, A wise man seeks 1055 01:33:33,119 --> 01:33:39,119 multiple counsel. Who are you under? Who sent you? That's the other 1056 01:33:39,239 --> 01:33:45,760 thing, A prophet sent? Have you ever postels or sent apostolos? Who 1057 01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:48,600 sent you? Yes? As Paul says in Hebrew six, no man takes 1058 01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:51,880 this honor unto himself. Now every Protestant is going to say, oh, 1059 01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:55,800 the Holy Spirit directly commissioned me, and father deacon, what would you say 1060 01:33:55,800 --> 01:34:00,560 to that with somebody at process as well? God himself commissioned me. Well, 1061 01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:05,479 that's not what we even see in the abstall times in the first century, 1062 01:34:06,119 --> 01:34:12,159 because all the heretics were claiming the same thing. You see this with 1063 01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:19,079 Saint Erness and Ignacious. They tell you exactly what man sent them. So 1064 01:34:19,159 --> 01:34:25,039 they're not like, well, it's just the Holy Spirit of God. Again, 1065 01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:30,359 they were under an authority of man, not against me a God, 1066 01:34:31,279 --> 01:34:38,560 correct, but men of God. All right. So people in the Chat 1067 01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:41,239 are asking me, and I knew this was going to come up. So 1068 01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:46,479 aren't there elders who have the gift of clairvoyance. Elders can know the future, 1069 01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:49,840 There can be clairvoyance. Absolutely, that is not the same thing as 1070 01:34:50,399 --> 01:34:56,960 divine revelation. Okay, so public divine revelation is not. It ceased when 1071 01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:00,439 the apostles died, thus the faith was once we're all delivered to the saints. 1072 01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:03,960 So I'm not saying that there aren't people who have premonitions and so forth, 1073 01:35:04,039 --> 01:35:09,680 but that is not the same thing as adding to and being the voice 1074 01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:14,359 of God or something like that, as if there's new text to add to 1075 01:35:14,399 --> 01:35:21,640 the scriptures, and also the people exactly they're getting visions by themselves and claiming 1076 01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:29,800 a direct contact with the Holy Spirit apart from an ecclesial authority and structure of 1077 01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:33,800 the church, which automatically is going to make you suspect that. It's like, 1078 01:35:34,079 --> 01:35:43,159 so Christ establishes a church, gives his revelation in Toto right Cato holos 1079 01:35:44,199 --> 01:35:48,479 to it, and has an authoritative structure, and then somebody saying I'm outside 1080 01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:53,680 of that, like I don't exist, and God's talking to me outside of 1081 01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:59,960 the church that he established, and that doesn't sound bizarre. Yeah, protest 1082 01:36:00,239 --> 01:36:06,720 every Protestant, every Messianic Protestant, you know, judaized evangelical needs to watch 1083 01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:11,760 this video Roots of Ancient Christian Worship because it's going to show you the proper 1084 01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:15,800 way to worship is not rock bands enrolling on the floor and acting like an 1085 01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:24,079 idiot, but it's actually this way ordered liturgical worship right there. So and 1086 01:36:24,399 --> 01:36:30,279 you know what, you can talk to booth Ja Cotel, father Moses uh 1087 01:36:31,119 --> 01:36:35,119 who was in here, myself, who experienced psychedelics, and even when I 1088 01:36:35,279 --> 01:36:40,279 was, you know, consider myself Christian. Guess what I thought. I 1089 01:36:40,399 --> 01:36:45,239 thought God and I was making predictions, weird stuff that was happening that you 1090 01:36:45,319 --> 01:36:48,880 couldn't explain. I thought the Holy Spirit was speaking to me. I too, 1091 01:36:49,039 --> 01:36:53,000 I too had a period when I was young where I was I thought 1092 01:36:53,079 --> 01:36:58,520 charismaticism was correct. I used to tend charismatic churches. I thought the Gibberish 1093 01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:01,119 was an angelic prayer language. I thought all those same things for a couple 1094 01:37:01,119 --> 01:37:03,680 of years when I was young, and then I realized, well, hey, 1095 01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:06,439 wait a minute, you know, Corinthians is actually talking about known languages, 1096 01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:10,199 It's not talking about Gibberish. Paul is talking about people who have the 1097 01:37:10,279 --> 01:37:15,239 gift of languages to instruct people in their native tongues. That's the gift of 1098 01:37:15,319 --> 01:37:19,319 tongues. It's not gibberish. There's no bumbling, rambling prayer, languages of 1099 01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:25,199 nonsense and all that stuff Paul's talking about, ultimately, by the way, 1100 01:37:25,279 --> 01:37:28,479 is no edic prayer. So that's what he's really talking about, in terms 1101 01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:32,600 of seeing the third heavens and praying in the spirit. Some guy's saying that 1102 01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,720 I'm arguing with elders. I don't know what you're talking about. I did 1103 01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:40,680 not say that there's no gifts of clairvoyance or miracles or anything like that. 1104 01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:45,840 I just simply said that those are not new public divine revelations that we add 1105 01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:49,039 to the Bible. Okay, we're not Mormons. We don't have We're not 1106 01:37:49,159 --> 01:37:54,760 a cult that follows ongoing divine revelations. And I'm sorry if you think that 1107 01:37:55,199 --> 01:37:59,760 we do. That's just simply mistaken. Where in the when the actumenical councils, 1108 01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:03,800 when they go to citing authoritative texts, what do they always put first? 1109 01:38:05,079 --> 01:38:11,520 First is Scripture, Second is the Holy Fathers and their interpretation of Scripture. 1110 01:38:12,239 --> 01:38:15,079 Third is arguments from logic and reasoning. That's the pattern that you've seen 1111 01:38:15,079 --> 01:38:21,600 in the ecumenical councils. I think he was misunderstanding to what I was saying, 1112 01:38:23,239 --> 01:38:30,720 because I've made this argument with Mormons. If scripture and public prophecy, 1113 01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:38,760 like we're talking about new revelations, like, if that wasn't closed, if 1114 01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:45,159 there were, we wouldn't be able to confirm the canonicity of the scripture. 1115 01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:53,560 Why because going back to the Saint Vincent level, Lorenz, what all have 1116 01:38:53,720 --> 01:39:00,880 hold everywhere, at all times already implies a patalolos what was wants to delivered 1117 01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:03,840 to the saints, and that it's closed and complete. So the reason why 1118 01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:10,520 we were able to say that and verify the cannon and say this was part 1119 01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:15,720 of what was always believed everywhere, at all times, it's precisely because it 1120 01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:23,640 was close. Can you imagine the epistemological anarchy that would occur if you if 1121 01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:26,840 you were allowed to be well, there's new stuff, you see, why 1122 01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:36,159 can't we include? So it undermines being able to affirm anything whatsoever. And 1123 01:39:36,439 --> 01:39:45,079 furthermore, it reduces everything to a subjectivism. There's no mechanism to objectively verify 1124 01:39:45,159 --> 01:39:48,760 if this is true everybody. And this is exactly what you get in Mormonism. 1125 01:39:49,319 --> 01:39:54,359 That's why it just is reduced to burning in the bosom and subjective feelings. 1126 01:39:56,880 --> 01:39:59,520 Well, it's just the Holy Spirit speaking. He told me this. 1127 01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:06,640 Do you see how it undermines everything? Like it's just chaos? Like you 1128 01:40:06,800 --> 01:40:12,479 there, you wouldn't be able to confirm what Christ taught, what the apostles 1129 01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:16,640 taught. I mean, if we're Christians, is not an obvious like end 1130 01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:20,880 of debate by pointing out that there's no new revelations, so obviously Islam is 1131 01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:25,319 not true. Well there are new revelations. Well I can't even use that 1132 01:40:25,359 --> 01:40:28,960 as an argument against Islam. Maybe maybe MOhm it is a new prophet. 1133 01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:35,239 And you understand that Muslims are going to tell you that the miracles around the 1134 01:40:35,319 --> 01:40:40,439 Koran and Mohammed prove Islam. I mean, have you guys not ever interacted 1135 01:40:40,439 --> 01:40:42,880 with Muslims. You don't know that they say this. How are you going 1136 01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:45,920 to combat Muslims when they're going to make all the same miracle arguments that you're 1137 01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:49,479 making. Well, there's new there's new revelations, and look at all the 1138 01:40:50,279 --> 01:40:55,520 miracles around the Quran. Therefore Islam's true. So these are this is why 1139 01:40:55,600 --> 01:41:00,319 we do this is to debunk debuok these terrible arguments. These are bad arguments. 1140 01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:08,600 Okay. Just claims of miracles don't prove Islam or Catholicism and all of 1141 01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:11,439 these groups claim miracles. Okay, so how is that going to be the 1142 01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:16,039 thing? So people are asking, did I not just address the issue of 1143 01:41:16,239 --> 01:41:19,680 elders and making their predictions. We just addressed this, and people are like, 1144 01:41:20,199 --> 01:41:24,000 oh, that's all they're talking about in the chat Woodo, Bill Puss. 1145 01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:31,520 We just addressed this. I'm not trying to be rude, but guys, 1146 01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:34,520 I mean, did you just get here in the chat like we just 1147 01:41:34,720 --> 01:41:39,199 we just addressed that. Man, be patient, go back a little bit 1148 01:41:40,479 --> 01:41:45,239 instead of sounding off, Ricky, did you want to say something? Yeah, 1149 01:41:46,159 --> 01:41:51,880 before I ask my question. Something that really spoofed me on while I 1150 01:41:53,079 --> 01:41:58,920 was Roman Catholic. Was that the same charismatic practices? Yeah? These people 1151 01:41:59,039 --> 01:42:02,199 do they do it in the church. I mean not in the church setting, 1152 01:42:02,319 --> 01:42:05,760 but no, actually some of them did know the Rubbi Gallic Church has 1153 01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:13,199 adopted officially from the papacy down the modern charismatic movement. Yeah. So I 1154 01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:18,079 was part of a eucharistic adoration, and they had this like piano music, 1155 01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:25,359 you know, the Protestant repeat the chorus ten times, yeah yeah, and 1156 01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:31,640 just people speaking in tongues and doing a bunch of weird stuff. Some people 1157 01:42:31,720 --> 01:42:39,279 were dancing in the background and you know, praying over people like you know 1158 01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:44,479 these groups do. And it just totally kind of spooked me because it's like, 1159 01:42:45,399 --> 01:42:48,439 you know, I'm trying, I was. I loved Protestantism to get 1160 01:42:48,520 --> 01:42:56,439 to something that was Protestant, so it just really proves like way too much. 1161 01:42:56,560 --> 01:43:02,039 Father Peter years said that that's like one of the main points that you 1162 01:43:02,119 --> 01:43:06,720 know, for the churches to unite, the Greek churches would have to accept 1163 01:43:08,239 --> 01:43:15,479 that that type of worship is legitimate and it's clearly not Orthodox, right, 1164 01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:18,920 I mean, this is you know, Father Servant Rose called this out as 1165 01:43:19,239 --> 01:43:21,920 a deception, and I'm really glad that you brought this up, because this 1166 01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:29,159 is actually over overlooked in terms of our critique. I always forget that there's 1167 01:43:29,319 --> 01:43:35,479 like papal gigantic of here's all these charismatic Catholics praying over Pope Francis. I 1168 01:43:35,560 --> 01:43:42,920 mean, guys, come on, right, so and here's here's Francis participating. 1169 01:43:43,119 --> 01:43:48,159 Yeah, all the charismatic Roman Catholic here's cardinals praying charismatic prayers over Pope 1170 01:43:48,199 --> 01:43:54,800 Francis. Yeah yeah, I mean, this is not the way that we 1171 01:43:55,000 --> 01:44:03,439 were intended to worship, is not through this charismatic nonsense. All right, 1172 01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:19,479 let's see gulag hey, Jake and here, and then I apologize in advance. 1173 01:44:19,479 --> 01:44:23,840 I know you're looking forward Tobates, and I know you get super tired 1174 01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:30,279 of going over all this real basic stuff. But I'm very inspired by my 1175 01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:34,119 recent delve into Orthodoxy, and I feel like I'm getting the grass on the 1176 01:44:34,279 --> 01:44:40,560 distinctions between the Father and the Son. But I feel like I'm really falling 1177 01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:45,119 short on my understanding with the Holy Spirit. And I guess the best way 1178 01:44:45,199 --> 01:44:48,680 to just kind of conceptualize that if you wouldn't mind giving a little guidance and 1179 01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:53,439 the best way to understand that, and I'm not necessarily saying that it does, 1180 01:44:53,520 --> 01:44:59,600 but if the Holy Spirit is directly related to the concept of grace, 1181 01:45:00,079 --> 01:45:02,520 and if you want to refer me to one of your previous videos or a 1182 01:45:02,560 --> 01:45:05,640 book totally, I mean, I would go back to the front page of 1183 01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:11,079 my channel, and at the very bottom is a lecture going through the entirety 1184 01:45:11,079 --> 01:45:15,039 of John Saint John Damascus is on the Orthodox Faith, and we start with 1185 01:45:15,279 --> 01:45:17,520 the triad we go through each of the you know, arguments that he makes. 1186 01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:20,800 I would also say, go and watch the lectures of doctor bo Brinson 1187 01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:26,159 on the monarchia of the Trinity. But the the Person of the Holy Spirit 1188 01:45:26,319 --> 01:45:31,239 is the third person, and he is fully divine and fully personal, as 1189 01:45:31,319 --> 01:45:35,199 much as the Father, as much as the Son. He's not equated to 1190 01:45:35,399 --> 01:45:39,760 grace, but we do speak of the grace of the Spirit and so forth 1191 01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:43,920 the gifts of the Spirit. But everything in the Trinity is triadic. So 1192 01:45:44,039 --> 01:45:46,279 the grace that comes to us is from the Father, through the Son and 1193 01:45:46,399 --> 01:45:51,520 in the Spirit. That's Saint Basil's classic sort of triadic model or liturgical model 1194 01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:56,079 for how all of these things come to us. You could also read Saint 1195 01:45:56,159 --> 01:45:59,840 Basils on the Holy Spirit, which is not that long of a work, 1196 01:46:00,039 --> 01:46:02,880 and it's a very good introduction to this topic as well. Mac. Did 1197 01:46:02,960 --> 01:46:15,199 you want to try again now on this other topic too. I remember when 1198 01:46:15,199 --> 01:46:21,479 I was a trad this is a big controversy because John Paul the Second or 1199 01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:30,279 Benedict, gave communion to quote brother Roger Schutz, who was a Swiss Swiss 1200 01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:35,479 ecumenist. So he's a Protestant Swiss ecumenist, part of the Taisee community. 1201 01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:44,880 And this is a big scandal back under I forget which pope, one of 1202 01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:47,119 the popes gave him communion, and it was a huge scandal. Here it 1203 01:46:47,239 --> 01:46:53,640 is John Paul the Second, no and Benedict. So here's trad Benedict giving 1204 01:46:53,800 --> 01:47:00,840 this Protestant ecumenist the Eucharist. Although brothers Shoots had a Presbyterian background, he 1205 01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:06,000 received the Eucharist at the Mass celebrated every morning in his monastery from John Paul 1206 01:47:06,039 --> 01:47:13,000 the Second and Benedict sixteenth. This actually contravened canonical prohibitions on receiving the sacrament 1207 01:47:13,399 --> 01:47:16,920 unless you are members of the Catholic Church. But of course in the acumenist 1208 01:47:17,399 --> 01:47:24,279 world of Roman Catholicism they don't care. And not only that, this guy 1209 01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:30,079 is the father of Charismatic Catholicism and ecumenism. So the actual Charismatic Catholic movement 1210 01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:34,600 comes partly from or maybe even largely from I'm trying to go from this his 1211 01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:42,319 stuff from like twenty years ago, from this brother Roger Shutz guy, and 1212 01:47:43,239 --> 01:48:02,840 the tais a community, is a charismatic community if I remember correctly, we 1213 01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:16,439 make sure I'm right about that. Well, I see a lot of discussions 1214 01:48:16,479 --> 01:48:26,039 of yes, well they're calling him a charismatic founder, but do they mean 1215 01:48:26,119 --> 01:48:30,920 like charismatic in the sense of a leader or is he Maybe I'm misremembering and 1216 01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:36,880 he's just an ecumenist, But I thought he was a an actual charismatic, 1217 01:48:38,119 --> 01:48:51,880 Like does anybody know if if I mean, we know he was an acumenist, 1218 01:48:51,960 --> 01:49:03,720 but was he a I'm trying to figure out what I could look up 1219 01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:06,479 to see if that's the case anybody in the chat? No, And remember 1220 01:49:09,279 --> 01:49:17,359 was Roger Schutz? What you guys are talking about body parts, the chats, 1221 01:49:17,479 --> 01:49:23,119 the chest's way off of it. Anyway, it doesn't matter whether he's 1222 01:49:23,159 --> 01:49:26,600 an acumenist. And it was ridiculous to give him a community. But whatever 1223 01:49:26,800 --> 01:49:30,479 I mean, the because alicism has been has accepted charismaticism. Whatever. So 1224 01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:36,840 this other text that's overlooked in Zacharai at thirteen is talking about the Messianic era, 1225 01:49:38,279 --> 01:49:42,479 and it notes that there will not be profits in that day. We 1226 01:49:42,560 --> 01:49:47,159 won't need profits, and if anyone claims to be a new revelation prophet, 1227 01:49:47,640 --> 01:49:51,399 he will be considered worthy of death. In other words, he will not 1228 01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:56,399 be part of the church. He will be spiritually excommunicated because there will not 1229 01:49:56,520 --> 01:50:00,520 be a need for new public divine revelations. Imagine how silly this would be. 1230 01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:04,520 That's why the deacon pointed out, how could I know what certitude the 1231 01:50:04,760 --> 01:50:10,800 doctrines of Paul or the doctrines of the church if there were new public divine 1232 01:50:10,840 --> 01:50:13,680 revelations. Oh, it turns out the Trinity isn't true. Oh it turns 1233 01:50:13,680 --> 01:50:17,000 out this is Mormonism, this is Islam. Has no one interacted with Islam? 1234 01:50:17,039 --> 01:50:20,199 I don't understand, Like, you don't have to do it that long 1235 01:50:20,279 --> 01:50:24,439 before you start to realize this whole thing is erected on the idea that there's 1236 01:50:24,520 --> 01:50:42,640 new divine revelations. M mac are either is this disagreements or is it just 1237 01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:46,600 like an open it's whatever? Cool? Hey, so, do you have 1238 01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:54,920 any good tips on how to find an Orthodox life? Uh? Did you 1239 01:50:55,199 --> 01:51:00,960 call my Orthodox hotline? Yeah? Yeah, I did. Well, you 1240 01:51:01,039 --> 01:51:05,079 need to come to Montanica. I want to just I'm sorry, I'm gonna 1241 01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:14,760 pitch my Montanica jay, but I've got three engagements under my belt, just 1242 01:51:14,800 --> 01:51:19,000 from Orthodox in Montanica. So I'm really encouraging. Uh, you're probably gonna 1243 01:51:19,239 --> 01:51:25,319 uh a little bit, Yeah, probably a little bit more. Hey, 1244 01:51:25,520 --> 01:51:29,479 I'm willing to make. I'm willing to make a trouble fricking wash. You 1245 01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:33,079 know, I'm good convert about this girl. That's my advice. Find about 1246 01:51:33,119 --> 01:51:39,039 his growing converter. Yeah, I mean, is it? Is it okay? 1247 01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,159 Like? Would that be okay? Sorry? What did you say? 1248 01:51:43,600 --> 01:51:47,560 Would have to Oh, I'm just curious, it's all. I didn't even 1249 01:51:47,600 --> 01:51:53,920 hear what you said. Jay, find about his girl and converter. It'll 1250 01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:56,199 be a bit tricky, but yeah, I guess it's the show. Well, 1251 01:51:56,279 --> 01:52:00,960 I mean tricky why because you're in Australia. Yeah, okay, we'll 1252 01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:03,880 go find it. Go find an evangelic. Shouldn't have to be badlist. 1253 01:52:04,720 --> 01:52:11,640 I probably asked where you do something like that, But and I really am. 1254 01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:16,000 I talked to the other priests up here in Montana and we're really working 1255 01:52:16,119 --> 01:52:24,960 on suddenly in the background matchmaking. So well, maybe maybe you can hook 1256 01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:29,640 your boy up. Absolutely, maybe I should. Actually, you know what, 1257 01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:34,079 just anonymously send in your resumes. I can do that. I'm happy 1258 01:52:34,119 --> 01:52:38,600 to do that, Bro. Seriously, Yeah, I'm actually gonna do this. 1259 01:52:38,880 --> 01:52:42,720 I'm not joking, by the way, I'm not joking. So you 1260 01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:45,039 can reach out to Father Deacon there. He's you can see his profile so 1261 01:52:45,199 --> 01:52:49,039 you can message him about that. Reach out to me anybody in the chat 1262 01:52:49,239 --> 01:52:56,680 or on the Twitter X you need a lovely UH spouse or the moss, 1263 01:52:57,399 --> 01:53:01,680 please contact me and UH with the blessings of the fathers here and their guidance. 1264 01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:05,920 You see, I don't receive the Holy Spirit just by myself. I'm 1265 01:53:05,960 --> 01:53:12,239 not a prophet. I take it the clergy and we'll do our best. 1266 01:53:12,359 --> 01:53:16,560 I promise that, taking it to the streets like the Dowie Brothers taking into 1267 01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:21,680 the streets. I heard that song of a day. People are asking what 1268 01:53:21,800 --> 01:53:26,199 did Elijah say. Elijah made a joke, so I had the idea to 1269 01:53:26,279 --> 01:53:32,680 do this live stream. I played the video clip of the very sassy sassy 1270 01:53:32,840 --> 01:53:39,920 man at the Protestant church dancing and I thought it was funny. I said, 1271 01:53:40,159 --> 01:53:45,920 this is how Protestants worship. It was just a joke. And then 1272 01:53:46,159 --> 01:53:50,439 Elijah, which I thought it was funny, he replied and said, the 1273 01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:54,840 white suit fits you because the guy has long hair, so he was saying 1274 01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:57,520 this is me and I thought that was funny. And then I said, 1275 01:53:57,560 --> 01:54:01,279 Elijah goes to Randy Balls. It's megachurch. So and then I asked a 1276 01:54:01,279 --> 01:54:04,239 lot if he wanted to come on and do discussion. So he hasn't showed 1277 01:54:04,319 --> 01:54:11,039 up, so I don't guess he's available, but he's in Australia. Brain 1278 01:54:11,119 --> 01:54:29,760 master, what's up? Man? Mh you gotta I'm mute? Oh is 1279 01:54:29,800 --> 01:54:32,720 that me? Hello? Yeah? What's up? Yeah? I was just 1280 01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:36,399 gonna say, I think what are you talking about earlier about people having visions 1281 01:54:36,439 --> 01:54:41,800 and stuff? I think it is like one of the biggest like drivers for 1282 01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:46,439 atheism. And I agree with like Catholics and procause like people like they feel 1283 01:54:46,520 --> 01:54:49,680 like, uh, A lot of people that have those visions, I feel 1284 01:54:49,680 --> 01:54:54,920 like aren't the smartest and the like smart kids will yeah see this and they'll 1285 01:54:54,960 --> 01:54:58,279 think it's just like, oh, they're just like retards. I think that's 1286 01:54:58,359 --> 01:55:01,880 very perceptive. I think you're a Yeah, it's basically like an atheism generating 1287 01:55:02,000 --> 01:55:09,520 factory when the religion becomes equated with you know, these emotional highs and lows 1288 01:55:09,680 --> 01:55:13,079 and oh God's telling me to go to the save a lot and talk to 1289 01:55:13,159 --> 01:55:15,600 the woman in the parking lot, and that's just your that's just your own 1290 01:55:15,640 --> 01:55:19,840 heart, your own emotions. Yeah, even like sort of like Sam Shamon 1291 01:55:19,880 --> 01:55:24,399 and some of his like cat and friends were talking to some like eighteen year 1292 01:55:24,399 --> 01:55:28,880 old kid and he's like, they're like oohing and gooing over his like dreams. 1293 01:55:29,279 --> 01:55:32,760 It's kind of goofy. Yeah. I mean, it's certainly true that 1294 01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:38,119 God can send a dream, but we don't follow these things because they're so 1295 01:55:38,319 --> 01:55:45,680 deceptive and most likely it's not God that sent you the dream last night. 1296 01:55:45,840 --> 01:55:50,880 Okay, So we have to have a skeptical disposition. That's the correct attitude, 1297 01:55:50,920 --> 01:55:56,439 not because God can't do that or whatever, but because we have a 1298 01:55:56,560 --> 01:56:01,640 tendency to be so deluded into thinking that, oh, that was God talking 1299 01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:04,720 to me, telling me to go to save a lot and to preach, 1300 01:56:05,079 --> 01:56:09,319 you know, in the parking lot. And then you get you get full 1301 01:56:09,359 --> 01:56:13,199 of your own delusion, and you further your own delusions, and then you 1302 01:56:13,319 --> 01:56:17,560 get all hyped up thinking that you're this anointed special save a lot profit and 1303 01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:23,960 you're just in delusion and it's a it's a trap. Can I add a 1304 01:56:24,039 --> 01:56:28,640 few things to that, because I'd thought about this before, just kind of 1305 01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:35,920 historically situating like contemporary evangelicalism, keep in mind like certain philosophical influences. So 1306 01:56:36,840 --> 01:56:45,000 obviously not only historically speaking to Protestantism reject ecclesial hierarchy and stuff like this, 1307 01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:58,439 but more recently within the last century, what are some prominent philosophical theories that 1308 01:56:58,600 --> 01:57:09,119 became quite popular existentialism and phenomenology. So now couple this with kind of anti 1309 01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:16,079 hierarchy, right, So what is existentialism. It's about the individual, right, 1310 01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:24,920 It's always the individual first. Phenomenology brackets any metaphysical questions, i e. 1311 01:57:25,159 --> 01:57:30,960 Kind of like objectivity about the and so you get this kind of what 1312 01:57:30,199 --> 01:57:35,600 I think and I'm just you know, thinking out loud. Here a recipe 1313 01:57:35,680 --> 01:57:43,600 for a perfect storm of you know, relativism. That's the experience you see, 1314 01:57:43,680 --> 01:57:47,319 It's the once you define me to you negate me, right, It's 1315 01:57:47,800 --> 01:57:58,079 I determine my own my my being comes before my you know what is it? 1316 01:57:58,159 --> 01:58:08,439 The reverse of existence before essence? Yeah, existence before essence and all 1317 01:58:08,560 --> 01:58:16,159 of this. There are some articles and some research into that these philosophical ideas 1318 01:58:16,239 --> 01:58:23,760 penetrated themselves within the evangelical Protestant movements right now, So when you put all 1319 01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:27,600 these things together, you get this kind of oh, well, it's the 1320 01:58:27,720 --> 01:58:31,960 phenomenon, you see, it's the phenomenal experience that well, you can't what's 1321 01:58:32,039 --> 01:58:36,800 phenomenology. It's this kind of epistemic kind of move to you, why cannot 1322 01:58:36,880 --> 01:58:45,039 deny the immediacy of the experience. I don't know what's actually out there metaphysically 1323 01:58:45,159 --> 01:58:51,119 speaking, but there's kind of an indubitableness to my experience. So this last 1324 01:58:51,159 --> 01:58:55,279 gentleman that came on, what did he say? But I experienced it. 1325 01:58:56,840 --> 01:59:04,159 My experience was my experience see this in evangelical Christia. How how dare you 1326 01:59:04,479 --> 01:59:11,640 say that my experience wasn't legitimate? It was my experience of God. So 1327 01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:16,840 anyways, what are your thoughts on that these kind of like these various kind 1328 01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:25,520 of connections between these other philosophic kind of movements of phenomenology, existentialism, a 1329 01:59:25,640 --> 01:59:29,439 lot of post modernity in the sense of kind of like Rorty's relativism, and 1330 01:59:29,600 --> 01:59:33,840 well, it all begins with Descartes's shift to the mind. Right, So, 1331 01:59:34,880 --> 01:59:41,159 even though there was already medieval scholastic rationalism, what Descartes did was basically 1332 01:59:41,239 --> 01:59:47,000 shift everything in this pivot to the individual man's reasoning in mind. So my 1333 01:59:47,239 --> 01:59:51,119 mind will be the ultimate self evident principle. I think. Therefore I am 1334 01:59:51,479 --> 01:59:56,359 that will determine what is and isn't, what canon can't be. So this, 1335 01:59:56,840 --> 02:00:02,159 this huge shift turns everything away from man looking to the exterior, to 1336 02:00:02,319 --> 02:00:06,199 God, to transcendence, to nature, to essences, to purpose, to 1337 02:00:06,279 --> 02:00:12,119 telos, to science, natural science, all the risk Atilian ideas, to 1338 02:00:12,399 --> 02:00:17,680 this inner world, this inner world, and so everything Enlightenment wise post Descartes 1339 02:00:18,479 --> 02:00:24,039 is this radical individualized thing. Except maybe you could argue that Marxists are the 1340 02:00:24,119 --> 02:00:27,399 ones that are critiquing that. I'm not saying Marxism is true, but they're 1341 02:00:27,439 --> 02:00:31,560 basically saying that, well, that's a manifestation of you know, like economic 1342 02:00:32,359 --> 02:00:36,000 ideas of bourgeoisie or whatever at that time, thinking that, you know, 1343 02:00:36,119 --> 02:00:45,039 Western man's reasoning power is the ultimate principle of individuation. But other than Marxist 1344 02:00:45,079 --> 02:00:47,760 I can't think of anybody, and people in the religious theological sphere, you 1345 02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:51,520 know, I can't think of anybody else in the West critiquing the presupposition that 1346 02:00:51,680 --> 02:00:57,600 we begin with man's mind. I mean, that's Kantianism all the philosophy pretty 1347 02:00:57,680 --> 02:01:00,760 much afterwards. And that's where you that's where you get the guys you're talking 1348 02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:05,479 about with the same presuppositions of where else could I start? But my own 1349 02:01:05,600 --> 02:01:12,680 reasoning and my own reasoning might not be Descartes's idea of self evident ultimate principles. 1350 02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:17,319 It might be my own just sort of you know, random disconnected sense 1351 02:01:17,439 --> 02:01:23,119 data. It might be my own, you know, like Sartress says, 1352 02:01:23,239 --> 02:01:29,399 right, my existence for the essence that's helped mysen And am I out of 1353 02:01:29,479 --> 02:01:36,199 fourth thing too? Remember reason? When I was a Protestant a long time 1354 02:01:36,239 --> 02:01:43,640 ago, an article by a Protestant who basically did a study. In his 1355 02:01:43,960 --> 02:01:50,560 thesis was the effeminization of the Protestant Church and kind of evangelicalism because you noticed 1356 02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:59,239 with like it's very emotive, the songs are very kind of like romantic, 1357 02:01:59,600 --> 02:02:03,640 like the these songs are really kind of romantic, semi erotic. Yeah, 1358 02:02:04,439 --> 02:02:09,439 And this guy's thesis was when he started, he was just looking at the 1359 02:02:09,600 --> 02:02:18,159 data. He says, this really tended to boom during the Second Great World 1360 02:02:18,279 --> 02:02:24,439 War. And what happened his thesis, and I find it interesting, was 1361 02:02:24,560 --> 02:02:27,840 that well, the men left the Protestant church to go fight the war, 1362 02:02:28,319 --> 02:02:31,680 and so was the women left to kind of run the churches. I see 1363 02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:35,319 Rachel's in the church, who'll probably know a little bit about this. But 1364 02:02:35,439 --> 02:02:41,680 what naturally just kind of happened is there were no men kind of running the 1365 02:02:41,760 --> 02:02:45,479 church and the Protestant churches and the Evangelical churches, and so everything kind of 1366 02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:56,720 starting to dominated by this kind of effeminate, emotional, relational And I think 1367 02:02:56,800 --> 02:03:01,359 that's an important aspect to bring in two because prior to this gentleman, this 1368 02:03:01,439 --> 02:03:06,720 scholar might be right, prior to the forties, I don't know whatever you 1369 02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:13,119 would call the you know, pentecost and the evangelical movements. I'm not sure 1370 02:03:13,199 --> 02:03:15,680 you actually kind of saw that kind of Oh my, it's my experience and 1371 02:03:15,760 --> 02:03:20,479 my feelings. Don't you can't judge my feelings. This is my relationship with 1372 02:03:20,600 --> 02:03:25,560 Jesus. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah? Yeah. And to 1373 02:03:25,640 --> 02:03:30,600 those that are asking questions in the chat, so people had asked where is 1374 02:03:30,680 --> 02:03:34,079 the Pearl interview? So we went down to Miami and Miami a few days 1375 02:03:34,079 --> 02:03:41,399 ago and I did the two and a half hour interview with Pearl. She 1376 02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:45,680 asked a lot of questions about everything, including what do you think about men, 1377 02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:48,399 women, marriage, all of that, So all of that came up. 1378 02:03:49,239 --> 02:03:53,039 I don't know what she's going to put out public. It will be 1379 02:03:53,359 --> 02:03:58,000 on her thing. I'm sure she'll put She'll drip some of the clips out, 1380 02:03:58,159 --> 02:04:03,640 and is my assumption. The sam hid PGL that we did will probably 1381 02:04:03,800 --> 02:04:06,720 out be out relatively soon. I don't know the exact date as to when 1382 02:04:06,800 --> 02:04:14,279 that's going to be out. I did another interview today for a big documentary 1383 02:04:14,359 --> 02:04:16,520 that should be coming out, so I can't I won't. I can't say 1384 02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:19,760 anything about that. But that'll be a big one too, so a lot 1385 02:04:19,800 --> 02:04:23,760 of the stuff will be dripping out. I don't know the exact dates for 1386 02:04:23,800 --> 02:04:29,239 all the guys that are asking. So Octavian since fifty bucks and he says, 1387 02:04:29,359 --> 02:04:31,760 this will actually be a better question for Father Deacon. I don't know 1388 02:04:32,039 --> 02:04:35,720 much about the church in Romania. I don't know about what's going on in 1389 02:04:35,840 --> 02:04:42,159 churches in other countries, Father Deacon, and anis, what would you say 1390 02:04:42,239 --> 02:04:45,159 to somebody who says, what is your opinion of the Romanian Orthodox Church? 1391 02:04:45,680 --> 02:04:50,159 I don't know if they mean in America or over there in Romania versus America. 1392 02:04:50,399 --> 02:04:56,920 So in America's kind of complicated situation as to Romanian churches. There is 1393 02:04:57,279 --> 02:05:09,239 the church under the Patriarch of Romania, and the bishop in charge of that 1394 02:05:09,359 --> 02:05:15,319 here in the United States is Metropolitan Nicolaia Chicago. And then there's the one 1395 02:05:15,479 --> 02:05:20,560 that I'm a part of, my Archbishop Nathaniel of the Romanian Orthodox Church in 1396 02:05:20,600 --> 02:05:29,960 America with the OCA. So what exactly is the question? What is your 1397 02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:36,319 opinion of the Romanian Orthodox Church? Well? I love Romania obviously. I 1398 02:05:36,399 --> 02:05:41,159 Mean here's the thing. I think a lot of these questions. I mean, 1399 02:05:41,199 --> 02:05:44,880 this person I'm guessing is asking like should I check out a Romanian Orthodox 1400 02:05:44,960 --> 02:05:47,239 Church? I'm guessing yeah, absolutely. Well that's what I was going to 1401 02:05:47,319 --> 02:05:51,039 say. All these questions that always come to us. We tend to pit 1402 02:05:51,319 --> 02:05:58,520 jurisdictions against jurisdiction, like what's the most base trap jurisdiction. Look, every 1403 02:05:58,600 --> 02:06:06,479 jurisdiction has problems, Yeah, administratively, So you really need to you need 1404 02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:13,880 to find at the local level. I mean, think again, Orthodoxy is 1405 02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:16,600 not papism. It really isn't top down, it's a bottom up. It's 1406 02:06:16,600 --> 02:06:23,920 an organic It's an organic religion in so far as it acquires the spirit and 1407 02:06:24,079 --> 02:06:28,960 relationship with Christ, and it bubbles upward the whole. All are dogmas, 1408 02:06:29,119 --> 02:06:34,600 ecclesiology, the authority, everything, so people have it backwards in their minds. 1409 02:06:34,840 --> 02:06:41,479 Go find a local parish and talk to the community and the prishioners and 1410 02:06:41,560 --> 02:06:46,439 the priests. Like, don't get hung up on again. There's difficulties with 1411 02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:53,720 parishes. There's pluses and minuses with different you know, cultures and jurisdictions. 1412 02:06:54,560 --> 02:06:58,800 You just need to see what is right for you and what it's best for 1413 02:06:58,920 --> 02:07:02,159 you and your family. So don't get hung up. Like what. Romania 1414 02:07:02,239 --> 02:07:08,600 has, great stuff they have. They have more monasteries than any other country 1415 02:07:08,640 --> 02:07:14,600 in the world. There's a real piety among the people. There's a lot 1416 02:07:14,640 --> 02:07:17,720 of great things that I can say about the Romanian Orthodox Church. So go 1417 02:07:17,920 --> 02:07:23,840 explore if you like it, you know, talk to the priests and join 1418 02:07:23,960 --> 02:07:27,960 that parish. Thank you. Nathaniel sends three dollars and says, what do 1419 02:07:27,960 --> 02:07:32,039 you think about numerology? Do you think their messages from angels? This might 1420 02:07:32,079 --> 02:07:35,600 be new age hubbub. I see a lot of patterns and numbers, numbers 1421 02:07:35,600 --> 02:07:39,319 at times like four four, four, seven, seven, seven, six, 1422 02:07:39,439 --> 02:07:43,319 sixty six, I see these patterns when I play games or when I'm 1423 02:07:43,359 --> 02:07:45,640 out eating food. Thank you for considering the silly question. You're awesome. 1424 02:07:45,680 --> 02:07:48,680 Well, thank you, Nathaniel. I think there's a temptation for us to 1425 02:07:48,800 --> 02:07:54,960 see patterns in things that aren't necessarily patterns. So I don't think that because 1426 02:07:55,079 --> 02:07:57,800 I see, these are very common numbers, Okay, So to see, 1427 02:07:58,359 --> 02:08:03,359 you know, three numbers in the world or on clocks does not have any 1428 02:08:03,439 --> 02:08:07,840 inherent necessary significance. And the thing with numerology that people can kind of go 1429 02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:11,880 overboard with this and then they start kind of becoming a slave to something that 1430 02:08:13,039 --> 02:08:16,079 we're not meant to be slaves too, And that's what superstition is. So 1431 02:08:16,159 --> 02:08:20,199 when we start to become a slave to numbers, just think of the principle 1432 02:08:20,279 --> 02:08:22,439 in scripture the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 1433 02:08:22,560 --> 02:08:28,239 Okay, God didn't make us to be enslaved and superstitiously bound to numbers like 1434 02:08:28,319 --> 02:08:31,439 we're in some sort of matrix. Numbers were made for man. So no, 1435 02:08:33,039 --> 02:08:37,159 angels are not sending messages through numbers. There is a biblical symbology behind 1436 02:08:37,279 --> 02:08:41,840 the number seven, and you know, perfection and the number six and so 1437 02:08:41,039 --> 02:08:45,159 forth. So there are there's a place for that. But I would not 1438 02:08:46,600 --> 02:08:52,880 think that or worry with this sort of tendency towards ocultism or superstition. DC 1439 02:08:52,960 --> 02:08:54,600 would working three dollars, thank you so much. I appreciate that, Rick, 1440 02:08:54,680 --> 02:08:58,319 three dollars. I want to shout out content from two to three years 1441 02:08:58,359 --> 02:09:03,800 ago. I want to see electric critiquing the tomistic triology person's equal essence. 1442 02:09:03,840 --> 02:09:09,079 I mean appreciate that. I mean we did that. Like there's so many 1443 02:09:09,119 --> 02:09:11,399 of those like I mean, for a while there almost all of the Q 1444 02:09:11,560 --> 02:09:15,439 and a's or the videos were about that. So I kind of feel like, 1445 02:09:16,880 --> 02:09:18,760 you know, once stuff like this is out, you know, you 1446 02:09:18,840 --> 02:09:26,279 can go and read the new, relatively new translation of the Palomite Synods here 1447 02:09:26,359 --> 02:09:31,920 from the Norman Russell book Record Palomas has cast controversy in the debate between Islam. 1448 02:09:33,359 --> 02:09:37,319 This also relates to the debates being had at that time with the Muslims. 1449 02:09:37,840 --> 02:09:39,119 This is a great text. I highly recommend it. It's the first, 1450 02:09:39,159 --> 02:09:43,600 I think English translation of all the Palomite Synods. And I mean, 1451 02:09:43,640 --> 02:09:48,720 if you know, if people still want to go and latch themselves onto this 1452 02:09:48,880 --> 02:09:52,560 ridiculous system, I mean, I don't like I'm over it, dude. 1453 02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:58,920 I mean, if you don't see the problems in the papacy, if you 1454 02:09:58,079 --> 02:10:03,079 can't discern the problem with setting up an Abu Dhabi multi faith center with Jews, 1455 02:10:03,199 --> 02:10:07,520 Christians, and Muslims altogether worship being quote the same God that I don't 1456 02:10:07,560 --> 02:10:11,479 know what There's nothing else I can say. There's no other videos that are 1457 02:10:11,479 --> 02:10:15,319 gonna help you. You're gonna have to just God's gonna have to give you 1458 02:10:15,359 --> 02:10:18,720 that discernment, Like, there's no what else can we say if you can't 1459 02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:24,520 see that as a problem, what's another video gonna do? I just I 1460 02:10:24,560 --> 02:10:28,479 don't know what else to say on all that. Also, I believe the 1461 02:10:28,600 --> 02:10:35,239 more I think about it, it actually is a disservice to religion to always 1462 02:10:35,279 --> 02:10:41,520 focus on this highbrow stuff, because it gives the impression that within Catholicism we 1463 02:10:41,680 --> 02:10:48,800 really have to combat the Roman Catholic like the Tomistic you know, superstructure. 1464 02:10:48,840 --> 02:10:52,359 It's like this giant castle or something that does not the modern Roman Catholic world. 1465 02:10:52,399 --> 02:10:58,720 We're not in the Middle Ages. It's it's actually it's giving too much 1466 02:10:58,840 --> 02:11:03,279 credence to this diculous system which is actually the thing in Rome. Okay, 1467 02:11:03,319 --> 02:11:07,199 it's not an a medieval spurg system of dorks on the internet who sit around 1468 02:11:07,239 --> 02:11:11,640 reading the Suma all day. That's not Roman Catholicism. That's the Roman Catholicism 1469 02:11:11,720 --> 02:11:16,560 in the head of spergs on the internet. That's not the real Roman Catholic 1470 02:11:16,640 --> 02:11:20,520 world. The real Roman Catholic world is built around Francis and Rome. And 1471 02:11:20,600 --> 02:11:24,520 they don't care about Thomas Aquinas. They quit caring about that even before Vatican 1472 02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:28,560 Two, the rise of Jesuits in the Roman Catholic Church in the twentieth century. 1473 02:11:28,560 --> 02:11:33,159 They don't care about Thomas Aquinas. Thomas Aquinas is no longer the preeminent 1474 02:11:33,800 --> 02:11:39,279 philosopher or even the official philosopher the Romancolic Church. As Leo the thirteenth said, 1475 02:11:39,359 --> 02:11:46,640 they don't care. Roman Catholicism is Pope Francis, Pacha Mama uh and 1476 02:11:48,119 --> 02:11:52,079 building the Abu Dhabi Multi Faith Center. That's Roman Catholicism. So don't even 1477 02:11:52,159 --> 02:12:01,800 waste your time talking about a bunch of scholastic distinction, because that's all dorks, 1478 02:12:01,000 --> 02:12:05,279 and it's just feeding the dork machine and the energy of these dorks that 1479 02:12:05,359 --> 02:12:11,960 spend all their time worshiping this algorithm in their head. Andrew g two dollars 1480 02:12:13,359 --> 02:12:18,560 I watched. I cringe. Binge watched Bolshevik videos. I don't have that 1481 02:12:18,640 --> 02:12:22,479 many Bolshevik videos. How did you? How did you Binge watch them? 1482 02:12:22,520 --> 02:12:26,399 I can think of a couple. I can't wait to see more. I 1483 02:12:26,439 --> 02:12:31,439 mean, there's not that many. So I remember one pretty recently where we 1484 02:12:31,560 --> 02:12:39,239 talked about Alexander Colin Taie from Rachel's book and her work. I remember Birch 1485 02:12:39,279 --> 02:12:43,279 and Russell talking about the Bolsheviks. I remember Anthony Sutton and you know, 1486 02:12:43,479 --> 02:12:46,600 elite funding for Bolsheviks. But that's the only things I can think of up 1487 02:12:46,600 --> 02:12:52,640 to my head. Horror of the con one dollar jay, the Maga communists 1488 02:12:52,680 --> 02:12:54,920 and uh, these goobers have called out your manhood. Correct, Yes, 1489 02:12:54,960 --> 02:13:00,359 they've got me. We will meet on the battlefield. The Mongolian throat singing 1490 02:13:00,439 --> 02:13:07,640 begins. Yes exactly, Hm, Father Moses, and then will go to 1491 02:13:07,720 --> 02:13:24,800 Rachel. Go ahead, Father Moses, you're here. I just want to 1492 02:13:24,840 --> 02:13:30,239 say it ten ten exactly. I felt the Holy Spirit was leading me to 1493 02:13:30,359 --> 02:13:37,760 say that Rokor is definitely the most bass tread and anybody who doesn't believe in 1494 02:13:37,840 --> 02:13:41,159 numerology and the significance of ten ten and why it was important for that to 1495 02:13:41,199 --> 02:13:48,520 state there is missing. So if you think the phony mom of the Fathers, 1496 02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:52,520 if you bench press seven and seventy seven pounds, what does that mean? 1497 02:13:54,159 --> 02:13:58,159 I you know what, I can't reveal that type of knowledge. Okay, 1498 02:13:58,560 --> 02:14:01,319 like you just you have to do it for you can have the knowledge. 1499 02:14:01,359 --> 02:14:07,359 You just don't have a Yeah, it was it was. Let's just 1500 02:14:07,399 --> 02:14:13,359 say it was spiritual without being physical. So, by the way, I 1501 02:14:13,439 --> 02:14:16,960 had a great comment on the video I just posted on my channel where the 1502 02:14:16,039 --> 02:14:20,800 guy was like, religion has to do with the external, the body, 1503 02:14:22,199 --> 02:14:28,880 whereas relationship with God has to do with the spiritual, which is immaterial. 1504 02:14:28,159 --> 02:14:31,399 And I had my I had my godson's there and I'm like, boys, 1505 02:14:31,439 --> 02:14:35,880 what heresy is that? And one of them is like that was like good. 1506 02:14:37,399 --> 02:14:41,720 I was like a thank God, they've learned something. So anyways, 1507 02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:45,479 but yeah, I mean that's I mean, those are the important things. 1508 02:14:45,600 --> 02:14:52,119 Is who's base and who's trad So a lot of gnostics when you get into 1509 02:14:52,199 --> 02:14:56,920 this domain, a lot of a lot of a lot of naism to go 1510 02:14:56,039 --> 02:15:00,279 around here. One of my favorite, one of my favorite say is that 1511 02:15:00,600 --> 02:15:07,359 is that Protestants literally think that the the the word, the logos in John 1512 02:15:07,439 --> 02:15:11,760 one one is actually the physical is a book. Yeah, and they don't 1513 02:15:11,800 --> 02:15:18,239 realize it's it's a divine rational principle of the universe. Like they can't. 1514 02:15:18,439 --> 02:15:20,399 They're like anyways, but you know, I mean again, just like all 1515 02:15:20,479 --> 02:15:24,000 of us. I mean, I was in I was in college, you 1516 02:15:24,079 --> 02:15:28,399 know, doing my doing my bachelor's in religion before I kind of started like 1517 02:15:28,479 --> 02:15:31,359 going, oh wow, you know this stuff doesn't actually mean what pastor Jim 1518 02:15:31,439 --> 02:15:35,199 Bob and the Hawaiian T shirt. Yes, you know what I mean. 1519 02:15:35,479 --> 02:15:37,920 I'm gonna make a confession. I never thought that when I was a Protestant. 1520 02:15:39,079 --> 02:15:43,239 I always knew it was oh man, you were missing out. I 1521 02:15:43,319 --> 02:15:48,000 think you're kind of human and Protestantism was incomplete that I mean, that's that's 1522 02:15:48,159 --> 02:15:50,159 right. I have, you know, no doubt if you were really I 1523 02:15:50,279 --> 02:15:54,439 doubt, if you were really a believer, then that's right. I feel 1524 02:15:54,479 --> 02:15:56,920 treated all my money back. That's the best one is where somebody is like 1525 02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:01,000 all you need is faith alone, and then if you say something that like 1526 02:16:01,159 --> 02:16:03,319 they don't agree with, they're like, I doubt if you were really a 1527 02:16:03,359 --> 02:16:07,800 believer, then what about my faith alone? Wasn't that saving me? I 1528 02:16:07,920 --> 02:16:13,000 guess not. I guess yeah. Somebody's I remember somebody's daughter this years and 1529 02:16:13,119 --> 02:16:16,399 ye're ten years ago, who was Protestant. Their daughter was like, Catholics 1530 02:16:16,439 --> 02:16:20,359 are not going to heaven. They can't be saved, and I'm like why 1531 02:16:20,760 --> 02:16:26,039 why you know? They're like because they don't believe in faith alone. It's 1532 02:16:26,079 --> 02:16:30,640 like, oh, God will literally not save you if you have the wrong 1533 02:16:30,960 --> 02:16:37,159 theology, and and uh if not Lutheran, you know, yeah, pretty 1534 02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:41,319 wild. Yeah, it's sort of like I remember when I was in the 1535 02:16:41,399 --> 02:16:46,639 Calvinist circles, this controversy came up where on the one hand, everybody was 1536 02:16:46,680 --> 02:16:50,559 like, well, yeah, we think that, you know, salvation is 1537 02:16:50,639 --> 02:16:54,680 by faith alone, But then some of the other reform theologians were saying, 1538 02:16:54,120 --> 02:16:58,440 no, no, no, it's you also have to have faith in faith 1539 02:16:58,479 --> 02:17:03,360 alone. And if you don't, yeah, if you don't have that view, 1540 02:17:03,600 --> 02:17:05,360 then you're actually believing in works and so you're not safe to see. 1541 02:17:07,000 --> 02:17:13,159 So it's like, have you heard of a drug called autism? Well, 1542 02:17:13,280 --> 02:17:16,639 Calvinism is great for autists, as as is Tonism. The two worlds overlap 1543 02:17:16,760 --> 02:17:22,440 very close to Yeah, yeah, my Uh, when we did it, 1544 02:17:22,479 --> 02:17:26,600 when we did our bachelors at the at the Dutch Neil Calvinist University. It 1545 02:17:26,760 --> 02:17:31,399 was funny because you know my wife, so you know, she's she's bright. 1546 02:17:31,479 --> 02:17:33,520 I mean she's not a super genius or anything, but she's bright. 1547 02:17:33,639 --> 02:17:37,000 And they took it it was like a religion in a one class. And 1548 02:17:37,079 --> 02:17:41,719 she was like, it's like they think they can explain everything about who God 1549 02:17:41,879 --> 02:17:45,000 is. And she was and I was like, it is kind of like 1550 02:17:45,079 --> 02:17:46,959 that when you think about it, you know what I mean, like every 1551 02:17:48,120 --> 02:17:54,799 aspect of God can be explained in Calvinism down to exactly there's no I mean, 1552 02:17:54,840 --> 02:17:58,000 there's literally no mystery, not even in just the just not even in 1553 02:17:58,319 --> 02:18:00,479 like the gnostic sense of the word, but in a I don't like, 1554 02:18:01,200 --> 02:18:07,760 there is nothing hidden about God. You actually know and understand everything about him 1555 02:18:09,040 --> 02:18:11,079 essentially makes you equal with him. But you can't say that because then it's 1556 02:18:13,600 --> 02:18:18,479 yeah, anyways, Rachel, did you want to say them? Yeah, 1557 02:18:18,520 --> 02:18:24,879 I was just going to jump in and add to the interesting little bit that 1558 02:18:24,000 --> 02:18:30,239 Father Deacon had about the fellows who had the World War two theory of how 1559 02:18:30,280 --> 02:18:35,000 the church got feminized. But I will say it goes way back before that 1560 02:18:35,319 --> 02:18:39,319 that that sounds interesting and I want to read about that. But the chapter 1561 02:18:39,440 --> 02:18:43,440 in my book that makes the most people angry with me is the one about 1562 02:18:43,479 --> 02:18:48,879 the Radical Reformation and the First and second Great Awakenings and how hysterically female those 1563 02:18:50,000 --> 02:18:54,840 movements really were, and how they they immediately in trying to go as far 1564 02:18:54,959 --> 02:19:01,680 against the papacy as possible and rejecting church authority completely, going so far as 1565 02:19:01,760 --> 02:19:03,959 to not even call their churches churches. Some of them, you know, 1566 02:19:05,040 --> 02:19:07,520 they would say it's a meeting house, you can't call it a church. 1567 02:19:07,840 --> 02:19:11,079 They wouldn't allow you to have a cross or a crucifix anywhere in the building. 1568 02:19:11,959 --> 02:19:18,559 And they had this radical egalitarianism, and it was like it was kind 1569 02:19:18,559 --> 02:19:22,479 of a thing where it's like who can be the most radical. Everybody was 1570 02:19:22,479 --> 02:19:26,959 trying to outradicalize, you know, the church next to them. Uh, 1571 02:19:26,239 --> 02:19:30,639 And so that one of the first things they started doing was pushing a lot 1572 02:19:30,680 --> 02:19:37,000 of really feminist or even gender bending stuff really early on. We're talking like 1573 02:19:37,360 --> 02:19:43,680 you know, early early America or even early Reformation still in Europe, where 1574 02:19:43,840 --> 02:19:46,559 they're you know, trying to push women to take on male roles in the 1575 02:19:46,680 --> 02:19:52,040 church and in the home and pushing the men to take on female roles in 1576 02:19:52,200 --> 02:19:56,719 both places. So it was the reformers, the radical reformers especially, some 1577 02:19:56,920 --> 02:20:01,879 of them got really crazy with that stuff, like really really early on. 1578 02:20:01,239 --> 02:20:05,760 And yeah, I think it very mad when I played the Well. They're 1579 02:20:05,799 --> 02:20:13,079 also to to to touch on the theme earlier. They're also the proto charismatics. 1580 02:20:13,399 --> 02:20:16,120 Now we've had charismatics going all the way, all the way back to 1581 02:20:16,280 --> 02:20:20,520 Montanus in the early Church, Tertolian left the church to become a Montanist. 1582 02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:22,799 Montanus said he was the voice of the Holy Spirit, and he had these 1583 02:20:22,879 --> 02:20:26,159 new divine revelations. And so for people who you know, were taking an 1584 02:20:26,200 --> 02:20:30,959 issue with what we said earlier, the church's rejection of Montanism is also a 1585 02:20:31,079 --> 02:20:35,680 rejection of this idea of ongoing new public divine revelations. If that was the 1586 02:20:35,840 --> 02:20:39,360 case, Montanus wouldn't have been rejected. He would have been considered part of 1587 02:20:39,440 --> 02:20:43,799 the church. But no, I don't. I just did. We're gonna 1588 02:20:43,799 --> 02:20:48,799 say some go ahead, Well, it's not Montanism. That's the first point. 1589 02:20:48,879 --> 02:20:56,680 That want to make Montanists not montanas. Yes, Second, Rachel, 1590 02:20:56,760 --> 02:21:03,680 you've talked about good to see here Rachel bless you. Crisis Risen. The 1591 02:21:03,799 --> 02:21:09,079 Puritans are the proto liberals. Oh yeah, I know. Well, I 1592 02:21:09,159 --> 02:21:15,040 think Hollywood and TV has given people the idea that Puritans were like the ultra 1593 02:21:15,159 --> 02:21:18,760 conservatives, like you're going to get a scarlet letter if we see your ankle 1594 02:21:18,920 --> 02:21:22,239 type of a thing, and that's Hollywood that If you go back and read 1595 02:21:22,319 --> 02:21:26,719 the writings of the people themselves, some of the disputes they had with each 1596 02:21:26,719 --> 02:21:30,719 other, it really wasn't like that. These were some of the most radically 1597 02:21:30,799 --> 02:21:35,120 progressive people of the time. They were not like the ultra right wing conservatives. 1598 02:21:35,799 --> 02:21:41,719 They were they were into vegetarianism, veganism. As soon as socialism came 1599 02:21:41,799 --> 02:21:43,879 around, almost all of them jumped onto that. You know. It was 1600 02:21:45,040 --> 02:21:52,600 like they were very socialists and then also very rigid moral and yeah social rules, 1601 02:21:54,000 --> 02:22:00,200 like kind of centrally planned like liberalism would. Oh yeah, I mean 1602 02:22:00,239 --> 02:22:05,280 because the radical egalitarianism stuff was kind of central to it, the radical individualism. 1603 02:22:05,559 --> 02:22:09,479 You know, the Holy Spirit told me in my corner of my room 1604 02:22:09,559 --> 02:22:15,319 when I was doing my devotional Bible study, and then they do the ongoing 1605 02:22:15,399 --> 02:22:18,840 revelation thing, right, and by the way, this is also again going 1606 02:22:18,920 --> 02:22:24,639 back to Montanus, because it wasn't just Montanus and Montanas himself. Montanus had 1607 02:22:24,719 --> 02:22:31,159 with him two prophetesses who were the co pastors of his church, Maximila and 1608 02:22:31,280 --> 02:22:35,159 Priscilla. So the idea of having a female pastors actually goes back to Montanas. 1609 02:22:37,159 --> 02:22:41,879 Yeah, it's a it's a great way to It seems like whenever there's 1610 02:22:41,920 --> 02:22:48,200 any attempt to put women in le pastoral roles, clergy roles, it's a 1611 02:22:48,559 --> 02:22:52,040 it's a way too. It's like a trojan horse to sneak the heresy in, 1612 02:22:52,680 --> 02:22:56,440 and it's always like this woman had some divine revelations. You see that 1613 02:22:56,600 --> 02:23:03,200 with all of the weird cults a lot too, like well, Quakers and 1614 02:23:03,280 --> 02:23:07,360 Shakers, they had this view of this egalitarian view of women having the inner 1615 02:23:07,479 --> 02:23:11,680 direct light. Yes, yeah, they did. And then if you look 1616 02:23:11,719 --> 02:23:16,920 at like the Christian scientists or i think even Seventh day Adventists, there's usually 1617 02:23:16,959 --> 02:23:22,840 a woman that had a dream. Ellen white Is had the so called charismatic 1618 02:23:22,879 --> 02:23:26,719 gifts and experiences. Correct. Yeah, and I've been you suggested to me, 1619 02:23:28,000 --> 02:23:31,440 like a year ago, Jay to do some looking into the first big 1620 02:23:31,600 --> 02:23:37,319 megachurch lady preacher, And I've done a bunch of more stuff on her that 1621 02:23:37,520 --> 02:23:41,159 I have to I'll show it to you sometimes. But I get all those 1622 02:23:41,200 --> 02:23:45,159 women to mix up. Was it Catherine Cooleman or the other woman? It 1623 02:23:45,280 --> 02:23:46,840 was the other one? What's her? A whole? I get them all 1624 02:23:46,879 --> 02:23:50,879 mixed up. But yeah, I know you're talking about Amy Simple, Amy 1625 02:23:50,920 --> 02:23:54,440 Simple. That's by the way, I was about to say her name. 1626 02:23:54,479 --> 02:24:01,200 I think that's actually a relative of mine, no joke. That's why I've 1627 02:24:01,360 --> 02:24:05,479 heard that before. I had never confirmed it. But as soon as you 1628 02:24:05,520 --> 02:24:07,879 guys started talking about like first women preachers, I was going to be like, 1629 02:24:07,200 --> 02:24:09,760 hey, there's a woman. Her last name is McPherson. But yeah, 1630 02:24:11,719 --> 02:24:16,559 where was she? Would you remember when station? She was in Los 1631 02:24:16,600 --> 02:24:20,000 Angeles? Is where her megachurch was, and she built one of these she's 1632 02:24:20,040 --> 02:24:24,120 from Canada. Though she's from Canada, but you go, yes, but 1633 02:24:24,239 --> 02:24:28,920 she's weird too alway and built this giant church. She was kind of the 1634 02:24:28,040 --> 02:24:31,479 first televangelist, but she was on the radio. She did like she had 1635 02:24:31,520 --> 02:24:37,200 a hugely popular radio show. People would travel off all over the country to 1636 02:24:37,360 --> 02:24:39,879 come to her mega church in LA and she would do like the Benny Hen 1637 02:24:41,159 --> 02:24:46,239 healing style stuff and she made incredible amounts of money. I mean, just 1638 02:24:46,559 --> 02:24:52,120 where am I going to get to see some of that trickles? Yeah, 1639 02:24:52,920 --> 02:24:56,280 that's all I wanted to say, was just to jump in and say that 1640 02:24:56,479 --> 02:25:03,120 the whole lady preacher Protestant with hysterical females and all that. It's I'd say 1641 02:25:03,159 --> 02:25:07,920 the first and second grade awakening were a big turning point for that because that 1642 02:25:07,200 --> 02:25:11,559 was even before radio. It was like, whoever could do these open air 1643 02:25:11,639 --> 02:25:16,760 preaching festivals and draw the biggest crowds and get the most money, then you 1644 02:25:16,799 --> 02:25:20,360 could start a church. So it gave people this massive incentive if they could 1645 02:25:20,840 --> 02:25:26,959 spin a good yarn, tell a really you know, compelling tale about you 1646 02:25:26,040 --> 02:25:31,040 know, their spiritual experience of the Holy Spirit, you know, giving them 1647 02:25:31,120 --> 02:25:35,319 this revelation, it gave It kind of gave people motivation to come up with 1648 02:25:35,360 --> 02:25:39,239 the craziest stuff, and so it was very hysterical. It was very emotional. 1649 02:25:39,680 --> 02:25:43,280 It was kind of like the raves, you know, where you get 1650 02:25:43,319 --> 02:25:46,719 together in the woods and you have the music and the drugs and everything. 1651 02:25:46,079 --> 02:25:50,680 But they would do the same thing. But it was just like this hysterias 1652 02:25:50,719 --> 02:25:54,840 stuff. It was like, let's all go to these giant outdoor encampments and 1653 02:25:54,000 --> 02:26:00,719 listen to the charismatic preachers and whoever has the craziest delivery on in the biggest 1654 02:26:00,760 --> 02:26:05,799 crowds. Those people go off and start churches, and immediately it became politicized. 1655 02:26:05,920 --> 02:26:09,280 You know, a lot of political candidates would align themselves with certain churches 1656 02:26:09,399 --> 02:26:13,879 like this, they'd start their own newspapers, and I mean, it's just 1657 02:26:13,600 --> 02:26:16,559 wild how that stuff went. But that, yeah, that chapter gets me 1658 02:26:16,840 --> 02:26:20,680 a lot of bad reviews on my books from people who don't like it. 1659 02:26:22,000 --> 02:26:28,600 Just they don't say it's wrong, they just say it's mean. So so 1660 02:26:28,760 --> 02:26:33,440 that's all I got. I'm just listening to you guys. Old time religion, 1661 02:26:35,079 --> 02:26:41,600 Old time religion. The real old time religion is like ancient druid human 1662 02:26:41,639 --> 02:26:45,600 sacrifice. Though, so whenever I hear the old time religion, I'm thinking, 1663 02:26:45,719 --> 02:26:50,079 like, what's the what's the real old time religion? All right, 1664 02:26:50,159 --> 02:26:52,719 let's say, who's next. A lot of people waiting that have been waiting 1665 02:26:52,719 --> 02:26:58,360 for a while. By the way, that any Amy mcperson, any simple 1666 02:26:58,440 --> 02:27:07,440 mcperson given last name was actually Kennedy before she got married. Look Out, 1667 02:27:07,479 --> 02:27:11,879 our RFK is gonna start. RFK is gonna start prophesying. If we make 1668 02:27:11,959 --> 02:27:16,120 him president, he's gonna start prophesying. She also, yeah, she also 1669 02:27:16,239 --> 02:27:20,840 did the uh have several husband things. She was marrying and divorcing like crazy, 1670 02:27:22,159 --> 02:27:24,600 and for some reason nobody thought nobody's got it was weird that she was 1671 02:27:24,680 --> 02:27:28,559 a female preacher to begin with, but then she just you know, had 1672 02:27:28,719 --> 02:27:35,040 three or four husbands and that's fine too, I guess. Uh, So 1673 02:27:35,719 --> 02:27:39,559 we got a lot of people waiting here. We got ten people. Tonight's 1674 02:27:39,639 --> 02:27:45,440 topics are people who are Protestant, Catholic, and Muslim. So tonight is 1675 02:27:45,479 --> 02:27:52,280 not for atheists, It's not for tag uh, it's not for what else 1676 02:27:52,360 --> 02:27:54,719 do people calling them about colts and all that kind of stuff. It's fine 1677 02:27:54,760 --> 02:28:00,280 to talk about the topics that have arisen because they're Protestant a ja since, 1678 02:28:00,399 --> 02:28:07,680 But so keep your questions to that. Let's see who's next in line. 1679 02:28:07,600 --> 02:28:18,399 We're not going to do the Sufi stuff tonight. Ethan Ethan, Yo, 1680 02:28:20,280 --> 02:28:28,840 what movie is that from? Yeah? What's up? Uh? So I'm 1681 02:28:28,879 --> 02:28:33,559 calling in because I am a Protestant who has been listening to a lot of 1682 02:28:33,600 --> 02:28:39,440 your stuff, specifically about soul scripture, which I think I understand a lot 1683 02:28:39,440 --> 02:28:41,840 of your arguments. They've definitely been very thought provoking, can help me push 1684 02:28:41,920 --> 02:28:48,360 me forward thinking about soul scripture. But one of the things I was specifically 1685 02:28:50,280 --> 02:28:52,760 thinking, could I'll just run this by you to see if you think it 1686 02:28:52,799 --> 02:28:58,040 could potentially be a strong man if for kind of how you say a lot, 1687 02:29:00,040 --> 02:29:03,760 okay, a law, I don't say a law. No, no, 1688 02:29:05,959 --> 02:29:11,719 a lot. Like the whole idea of there being this canon which was 1689 02:29:11,760 --> 02:29:15,760 settled by the Church, which I agree that's just historically like an arguable the 1690 02:29:15,879 --> 02:29:20,600 Church settled a cannon, But could somebody potentially make an argument as a Protestant 1691 02:29:20,760 --> 02:29:30,760 that scripture alone is basically just that that just how the Church kind of recognized 1692 02:29:31,280 --> 02:29:33,559 some scripture. I'm not really talking about the peripherals like things that were being 1693 02:29:33,600 --> 02:29:37,520 decided throughout the centuries, as you confirm and talk about a lot, but 1694 02:29:37,680 --> 02:29:41,280 just kind of like in the Old Testament, there was this there was this 1695 02:29:41,440 --> 02:29:46,360 mindset of like, okay, the law is scripture. At some point it 1696 02:29:46,520 --> 02:29:50,239 just kind of came to be known, like by Christ's time that just specifically 1697 02:29:50,319 --> 02:29:56,879 talking about the Pentituke, it was commonly referred to a scripture without any kind 1698 02:29:56,879 --> 02:30:01,959 of consent of a normative body. So in the same way the Gospels. 1699 02:30:01,000 --> 02:30:05,600 I understand some of those peripheral texts, like some of the epistles, some 1700 02:30:05,680 --> 02:30:07,479 of those other things. There's a lot of discussion about that before any kind 1701 02:30:07,479 --> 02:30:13,079 of counsel. But do you think a Protestant could make the argument that, 1702 02:30:13,159 --> 02:30:18,040 well, look, we can still do scripture alone, even without a settled 1703 02:30:18,120 --> 02:30:22,840 canon, just based off the scripture that we are confident about, like throughout 1704 02:30:22,879 --> 02:30:26,319 those early centuries, maybe the Gospels as their offer particularly well, but I 1705 02:30:26,399 --> 02:30:31,399 mean even those again, you can't escape the historical transmission of testimony the church 1706 02:30:33,000 --> 02:30:37,200 to know that Matthew the Apostle wrote Matthew's Gospel, Like, it doesn't tell 1707 02:30:37,239 --> 02:30:39,879 you who wrote it, Like, how do we know that that's Matthew the 1708 02:30:39,920 --> 02:30:43,479 disciple of Jesus. Well, we don't other than the tradition of the church. 1709 02:30:43,040 --> 02:30:46,600 So no, there's no like you know, time machine that you can 1710 02:30:46,639 --> 02:30:50,440 get in and go back to the autographa to see that. Oh no, 1711 02:30:50,600 --> 02:30:54,040 in fact, it was Paul the Apostle that wrote this epistle from Paul, 1712 02:30:54,760 --> 02:31:01,239 So we're trusting the church's testimony in that, and that's maybe not the only 1713 02:31:01,360 --> 02:31:07,399 thing that we need for canonicity, but apostolic authorship is crucial. It's one 1714 02:31:07,440 --> 02:31:11,360 of the components, and you can't get that without the tradition of the Church. 1715 02:31:11,959 --> 02:31:16,520 So and even in the Old Testament, like it's not like the text 1716 02:31:16,680 --> 02:31:22,559 came to anybody apart from the community of the Jewish people. So it's not 1717 02:31:22,840 --> 02:31:26,600 like, you know, you're just sitting there and you're gonna leave the sheep 1718 02:31:26,719 --> 02:31:33,319 fold and go do a bunch of Protestant hermeneutical exercises to determine if Isaiah is 1719 02:31:33,399 --> 02:31:37,079 truly Isaiah. It's just silly, like it doesn't work that way. So 1720 02:31:37,559 --> 02:31:41,239 I think partly what I'm asking this is because I'm going to be discussing this 1721 02:31:41,360 --> 02:31:45,879 topic specifically with one of my Bible professors at the university that I just graduated 1722 02:31:45,920 --> 02:31:50,760 from, and I'm pretty sure one of the arguments that he'll try to make 1723 02:31:50,959 --> 02:31:54,360 is just kind of like that argument of well, you say that you need 1724 02:31:54,440 --> 02:31:58,079 the church to recognize scripture, but scripture is recognized before the church. But 1725 02:31:58,159 --> 02:32:01,040 yeah, I understand it. All says in scripture that the Church is the 1726 02:32:01,120 --> 02:32:05,200 pillar and ground of truth, not scripture. So scripture itself tells you that 1727 02:32:05,319 --> 02:32:09,280 the Church is the pillar, ground of truth. So it's a very opposite 1728 02:32:09,319 --> 02:32:13,879 of the construls that they would have. But also if you noticed, and 1729 02:32:13,920 --> 02:32:18,719 I'm not trying to back up Trent Horn, but in the Trent Horn James 1730 02:32:18,799 --> 02:32:22,079 White debate, if you watched it, he got James White to concede that 1731 02:32:22,799 --> 02:32:26,680 the church was not operating on solid scripture for the first several centuries because there 1732 02:32:26,799 --> 02:32:31,600 was not a completed cannon. I think that's a huge admission. So I 1733 02:32:31,719 --> 02:32:33,719 did watch that debate and I picked up on that, and I think, 1734 02:32:35,079 --> 02:32:37,559 you know, I've read a couple of different books. I'm reading FF. 1735 02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:41,959 Bruce's Good Scripture and then I'm reading what was the other book on the Canady 1736 02:32:41,959 --> 02:32:45,719 The other one I always recommends Lee McDonald's book, because both of those basically 1737 02:32:46,360 --> 02:32:48,959 admit that, yeah, we need the church fathers, we need tradition, 1738 02:32:50,079 --> 02:32:52,559 and then they're like, but we're so Protestant. So it's like, okay, 1739 02:32:52,639 --> 02:32:56,399 but why this Maybe, as you brought up a question that kind of 1740 02:32:56,440 --> 02:33:00,760 falls up to that, but what are so you could recommen need to resources 1741 02:33:00,760 --> 02:33:03,479 if it would be more efficient, But what are some typical like quote minds 1742 02:33:03,680 --> 02:33:07,639 of church fathers, which I understand, I'm kind of recognizing while I'm asking 1743 02:33:07,719 --> 02:33:13,600 this that if Protestants are asking, are trying to find quote mind, yeah, 1744 02:33:13,600 --> 02:33:18,600 they they'll go to texts that talk about like the scriptures being sufficient, 1745 02:33:18,799 --> 02:33:22,200 the scriptures being cape able to make a man perfect and godliness and all of 1746 02:33:22,239 --> 02:33:28,239 that, and and even texts that might suggest a premacy of scripture. But 1747 02:33:28,399 --> 02:33:33,639 none of those things prove solo scriptura, and none of those things give you 1748 02:33:33,719 --> 02:33:37,200 a canon in themselves. And so when you start thinking about that, and 1749 02:33:37,319 --> 02:33:39,719 you start thinking about the fact that the product the church fathers that the Protestants 1750 02:33:39,719 --> 02:33:45,120 are quote minding, they weren't Protestant. They were bishops, they were monks, 1751 02:33:45,479 --> 02:33:48,000 they were you know, they were ascetics, they were virgins, they 1752 02:33:48,000 --> 02:33:50,639 were they were all these things that are not Protestants. So to quote mind 1753 02:33:50,680 --> 02:33:56,559 the church follets for Protestantism is just ludicrous, Right, Jay, would you 1754 02:33:56,600 --> 02:34:01,879 say, like an aspect of the issue with the soly scriptore is the fact 1755 02:34:01,920 --> 02:34:09,079 that you can't come to a coherent doctri doctrinal agreement among the various Protestant confessions, 1756 02:34:09,760 --> 02:34:15,040 Right. I think that's part of what's underlying the idea of soly scriptorra. 1757 02:34:15,399 --> 02:34:18,799 I mean that was Luther's presupposition is if everyone had access to the Bible, 1758 02:34:18,360 --> 02:34:22,559 they would all interpret the Bible, and all of their interpretations would be 1759 02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:26,920 in line with Luther's interpretation. And then you have like Zuingly is like, 1760 02:34:28,000 --> 02:34:30,719 hey, I don't agree with you that. Luther's response is like, well 1761 02:34:30,760 --> 02:34:33,559 you should die. Yeah, your followers need to die, right, So 1762 02:34:33,639 --> 02:34:41,840 the media, the immediate respect, the immediate response of Protestants is not lowest 1763 02:34:41,879 --> 02:34:46,840 common nominator ecumenism like it is today. The immediate response of Protestants is We're 1764 02:34:46,840 --> 02:34:50,120 going to kill each other. Yeah, literally the Anabaptist I mean, that 1765 02:34:50,239 --> 02:34:52,479 was the whole issue with the Anabaptists, like look, if you guys are 1766 02:34:52,479 --> 02:34:56,040 going to get baptized again, we'll kill you for that. I think part 1767 02:34:56,040 --> 02:35:00,760 of the problem that I run into, especially coming from a church Christ protests 1768 02:35:00,799 --> 02:35:05,399 the background, is that their theology is like so almost so entirely non existent 1769 02:35:07,079 --> 02:35:11,120 that it's almost non falsifiable because to them, they can be like, oh, 1770 02:35:11,159 --> 02:35:13,319 well it's just not in scripture, so it doesn't matter anyway. And 1771 02:35:15,200 --> 02:35:18,440 this kind of a historical approach I'm running into is kind of challenging for me, 1772 02:35:18,600 --> 02:35:22,239 because like they don't feel like they have to ascribe to any of those 1773 02:35:22,440 --> 02:35:26,840 Reformation theological principles, and because of that, they're just like, well, 1774 02:35:28,280 --> 02:35:33,040 we can come up with this lowest common denominator idea because for instance, their 1775 02:35:33,079 --> 02:35:37,680 mode of worship or ecclesiology it is so vague based off how scripture is vague. 1776 02:35:37,799 --> 02:35:41,920 And that's been challenging for me just discussing that with treaching crisis this way. 1777 02:35:41,959 --> 02:35:46,440 You don't talk to people who are dumb, Yeah, you can't, 1778 02:35:48,159 --> 02:35:50,799 but I'm serious, like, if you if you realize that people can't have 1779 02:35:50,079 --> 02:35:54,360 like coherent thought and coaching arguments, that they're just you just like you go, 1780 02:35:54,399 --> 02:35:56,959 okay, good man, doubless. I hope you figure it out. 1781 02:35:58,280 --> 02:36:03,239 You know, it doesn't even pass like the bar of just being and intelligence 1782 02:36:03,239 --> 02:36:07,200 systems like Pentecostalism. I think you can talk to Pentecostals and show them all 1783 02:36:07,239 --> 02:36:11,719 these things in scripture about speaking of tons of different things, and they're just 1784 02:36:11,959 --> 02:36:15,520 blank face. They're like, oh, we'll pray for you. You're like, 1785 02:36:15,600 --> 02:36:20,440 okay, great, thank you for your prayers. It's difficult because like 1786 02:36:20,680 --> 02:36:24,719 I would definitely take that advice usually. But a lot of this has to 1787 02:36:24,760 --> 02:36:28,840 do with the fact that both my fiance and who have been listening to a 1788 02:36:28,920 --> 02:36:31,639 lot of Orthodox related things that come to similar conclusions. Both of our parents 1789 02:36:31,719 --> 02:36:35,000 are involved with this, and they're both having Church of Christ, so it's 1790 02:36:35,040 --> 02:36:39,239 difficult to kind of navigate that minefield when yeah, you know, but yeah, 1791 02:36:39,239 --> 02:36:41,239 I see what you mean. It's a good point. Yeah. And 1792 02:36:41,319 --> 02:36:45,079 also you're probably they're probably saying, hey, you need to go talk to 1793 02:36:45,440 --> 02:36:48,479 you know, past or so and so and doctor so and so at you 1794 02:36:48,559 --> 02:36:52,319 know, Church Christ University and all that. Yeah, so you know, 1795 02:36:52,600 --> 02:36:56,399 just keep you know, stressing the point like McDonald and Bruce do, which 1796 02:36:56,479 --> 02:37:01,559 is that here you got Protestants admitting that, you know, the Bible can't 1797 02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:05,479 be divorced from the tradition and transmission and testimony to church. And another element 1798 02:37:05,559 --> 02:37:09,159 that both of those guys bring up in their books that's overlooked is that one 1799 02:37:09,159 --> 02:37:13,840 of the key ways that the Bible came to be was liturgy. And I 1800 02:37:13,879 --> 02:37:16,520 remember when I read that in them as a Protestant, I was like, 1801 02:37:16,639 --> 02:37:22,360 wow, I never even thought about the history of the church's worship playing a 1802 02:37:22,520 --> 02:37:26,280 key role in the Church identifying which texts were canonical and which ones weren't. 1803 02:37:26,600 --> 02:37:31,000 Because here I was in a Calvinist church that was anti liturgical, and so 1804 02:37:31,200 --> 02:37:35,280 now, wait a minute, the Bible itself, not only is it central 1805 02:37:35,440 --> 02:37:41,799 to you know, like, not only is the liturgy central to the decision 1806 02:37:41,559 --> 02:37:46,879 for what books go into this book, the Bible itself is a liturgical book. 1807 02:37:46,920 --> 02:37:48,200 I never even heard those. This blew my mind when I was a 1808 02:37:48,239 --> 02:37:52,000 Protestant. I think that's a huge to emphasize to some of my Protestant friends, 1809 02:37:52,159 --> 02:37:56,520 because once you lay out that it is in fact liturgical, that changes 1810 02:37:56,520 --> 02:38:00,959 everything, especially absolutely Christ, which is very low church. Like how you 1811 02:38:01,079 --> 02:38:05,920 pointed out before so Scriptures as Paul liturgizing an act, right, it really 1812 02:38:05,959 --> 02:38:09,600 says that it's just hard to get around. Yeah, I mean, you've 1813 02:38:09,639 --> 02:38:11,719 got Paul saying in the book if you I remember the you know, I 1814 02:38:11,840 --> 02:38:15,360 read Hebrews a lot when I was a Protestant, and I thought it was 1815 02:38:15,399 --> 02:38:20,120 a very you know, Protestant proving book of scripture. And then as I 1816 02:38:20,239 --> 02:38:22,639 got more and more into in my early twenties, reading a lot of Catholic 1817 02:38:22,719 --> 02:38:28,159 stuff. And I'm not defending Roman Catholicism, but one thing Catholics did when 1818 02:38:28,239 --> 02:38:31,840 it came to the Book of Hebrews was opened my mind to hey, wait 1819 02:38:31,879 --> 02:38:37,479 a minute, this is actually saying that the Melchizedecian priesthood continues on. There's 1820 02:38:37,520 --> 02:38:41,559 no, it's not like the ministerial priesthood died in the New Testament when Jesus 1821 02:38:41,600 --> 02:38:46,120 said the church. And that's why when you get up into like chapter thirteen 1822 02:38:46,479 --> 02:38:50,639 where Paul talks about an altar and he talks about giving eucharistia, giving thanks 1823 02:38:50,760 --> 02:38:54,680 at the altar that we have that we eat from that the people at the 1824 02:38:54,719 --> 02:39:00,639 tabernacticle can't eat from. That was like immediately New Testament liturgical sacrifice. And 1825 02:39:00,760 --> 02:39:03,399 I never even noticed that as a Protestant, having read the Book of Hebrews 1826 02:39:03,479 --> 02:39:09,840 many times, so you understand that the book that Protestants think would put an 1827 02:39:09,000 --> 02:39:16,440 end to eucharist sacrificed liturgy alter is the very book that talks about us having 1828 02:39:16,479 --> 02:39:18,639 those things right. But then they try to spiritualize it. You know, 1829 02:39:18,760 --> 02:39:24,000 it's it's a spiritual alter, it's spiritual food. It's spiritual, okay, 1830 02:39:24,120 --> 02:39:28,840 but it is, But that doesn't mean it's not physical. So why does 1831 02:39:28,879 --> 02:39:33,520 a Protestant think that quote spiritual means anti physical. That's because of their Gnostic 1832 02:39:33,559 --> 02:39:39,280 presupposition exactly. Well, thank you, I appreciate your time. Yeah, 1833 02:39:39,280 --> 02:39:43,079 I mean what we say Jesus is because he's quote spiritual, he's not physical. 1834 02:39:43,159 --> 02:39:50,639 Oh and now we're suddenly we're dukatists when we say that, so son 1835 02:39:50,719 --> 02:39:58,040 of God, I feel like we got we're in danger zone here. You 1836 02:39:58,120 --> 02:40:05,760 got a um mute m Are you saying you're a son of God or the 1837 02:40:05,920 --> 02:40:09,479 son of God? Yeah, you're you're on man. You gotta umute. 1838 02:40:09,959 --> 02:40:15,520 You don't have to raise your hand, you're on. You gotta u mute 1839 02:40:15,559 --> 02:40:20,239 man, you're raising your hand. You just gotta umute. All right. 1840 02:40:20,479 --> 02:40:31,239 Maybe he's trolling, joking around. He's a jokester. C C eight K 1841 02:40:37,040 --> 02:40:48,159 Hello, Hello, Yeah, what's up? Oh so yeah, Like I 1842 02:40:48,239 --> 02:40:52,159 know my dad's family, like his his heart is like all Protestant. They're 1843 02:40:52,200 --> 02:40:58,760 kind of like ignorant of like like Catholics and Eastern stuff. So like a 1844 02:40:58,879 --> 02:41:03,479 guy that I can like go buy to like resute like typical pros arguments. 1845 02:41:05,280 --> 02:41:09,319 I got like a book to give him or something you can read or what 1846 02:41:09,399 --> 02:41:11,920 do you mean no, no, for me to read and to like study. 1847 02:41:15,200 --> 02:41:22,559 Probably the most basic and thorough specifically about that would be doctor Clark Carlton's 1848 02:41:22,600 --> 02:41:24,479 books. He's got one call. There's a three part series, The Way, 1849 02:41:24,520 --> 02:41:28,479 the Truth, The Way, the Truth and the Life, and there 1850 02:41:28,280 --> 02:41:33,600 ones against Protestant ones against Roman Catholics. Uh so that's kind of a classic. 1851 02:41:33,680 --> 02:41:35,799 I read that back in like two thousand and seven or eight, so 1852 02:41:35,879 --> 02:41:39,479 that would be probably the best kind of starting point. I think those are 1853 02:41:39,520 --> 02:41:46,360 still available. Uh, clout, frogger, what's up? I'm kind of 1854 02:41:46,399 --> 02:41:52,479 wearing down, so we might have to call it an evening pretty soon. 1855 02:41:52,639 --> 02:41:56,360 And Matt Locke on Wassan too. We don't want to miss murder, she 1856 02:41:56,479 --> 02:42:01,120 wrote, I'm more of a murder she wrote, Angela Lansbury, magnum p 1857 02:42:01,360 --> 02:42:09,920 I and uh fall Guy and Chips Chips is coming on. All of my 1858 02:42:09,120 --> 02:42:13,120 childhood was based on magnum p. I absolutely that in the Konyam movies. 1859 02:42:13,239 --> 02:42:20,280 So what's not what's not integrate? I'm not demigrating now. Jlight's Golden Girls, 1860 02:42:20,360 --> 02:42:24,559 we know that. Yeah, I'm more of a Blanche than I am 1861 02:42:24,639 --> 02:42:28,799 a beat. Uh. I don't even know their names. There's no Blanche 1862 02:42:30,079 --> 02:42:35,719 clo clout, what's up? Man? You know what I mean? Yeah, 1863 02:42:37,200 --> 02:42:43,000 I was gonna ask about Joba witnesses. But I guess you changed the 1864 02:42:43,200 --> 02:42:46,200 topic. So, uh, I didn't change the topic. That's been the 1865 02:42:46,239 --> 02:42:50,399 topic. What do you want to ask about? Okay? But I mean 1866 02:42:50,440 --> 02:42:54,000 if it's if it's a quiet, quick question, I can answer it quick. 1867 02:42:54,479 --> 02:42:58,040 What do you think about what? That's a crazy cult? I mean, 1868 02:42:58,120 --> 02:43:05,280 what do you mean, like? What are they're like? What are 1869 02:43:05,360 --> 02:43:11,040 there I guess, uh, flaws or something. Well, they're anti Trinitarian. 1870 02:43:11,079 --> 02:43:13,680 They don't believe in the deed of Christ. They think Jesus was the 1871 02:43:15,319 --> 02:43:18,600 first thing God created. They think he died on a stake and not on 1872 02:43:18,719 --> 02:43:22,559 a cross. Uh. I mean it's it's a repackaging of the ancient Aryan 1873 02:43:22,639 --> 02:43:39,000 heresy. Let's see dialysis dias is God. I can't read. I can't 1874 02:43:39,000 --> 02:43:50,079 read that dias Yeah, I mute, hey, can you? Thanks for 1875 02:43:50,120 --> 02:43:56,159 having it? Man? So I finished trading Leviticus, and I just have 1876 02:43:56,280 --> 02:44:00,959 to sort of push back up Beard. I think Leviticus is talking about baptism. 1877 02:44:03,479 --> 02:44:07,200 Are you the guy who said that John the Baptist is Greek? Yeah? 1878 02:44:07,360 --> 02:44:11,079 Yeah, okay, so the all right, I don't take you seriously. 1879 02:44:11,479 --> 02:44:18,079 This is ridiculous, so serious, come on, man? Okay, 1880 02:44:18,159 --> 02:44:22,319 Well, Leviticus is talking about washing. Uh yeah, yeah. The same 1881 02:44:22,399 --> 02:44:28,719 word in the septuagis baptizo, So that guy's not serious. He was trolling 1882 02:44:28,760 --> 02:44:33,600 the other day saying John the Baptist is Greek. Let's see, gentile one 1883 02:44:50,600 --> 02:45:07,520 looks like he's having a hard time connecting Quinn quay. Yeah, I'm mute. 1884 02:45:11,840 --> 02:45:13,680 You get you don't have to raise your hand, man, just on 1885 02:45:13,799 --> 02:45:18,159 mute, you're on. Oh hey, usually it's not that bad. That's 1886 02:45:18,360 --> 02:45:22,760 any other is a delay when you bring somebody up. So greetings, Hey, 1887 02:45:24,159 --> 02:45:26,959 I'm good man. How are you. I'm doing well. I'm a 1888 02:45:26,000 --> 02:45:31,159 little tired. This is like my busiest media week ever, so I've just 1889 02:45:31,200 --> 02:45:35,079 been traveling, flying NonStop. But I'm good. I mean now, okay, 1890 02:45:37,799 --> 02:45:43,719 uh so I will just throw this into the ring. I don't know 1891 02:45:43,719 --> 02:45:45,760 if this has been brought up at all, but okay. What I have 1892 02:45:46,040 --> 02:45:54,239 noticed is there's this, uh can this trend of adult catholic and I'm gonna 1893 02:45:54,239 --> 02:45:58,319 put that in air quotes Catholics converts, and I feel like a lot of 1894 02:45:58,399 --> 02:46:05,040 it is is adopting Catholicism is like a cultural signal, like a red tribe 1895 02:46:05,079 --> 02:46:09,239 the blue tribe thing. Oh, yeah, I think so, yeah, 1896 02:46:09,639 --> 02:46:13,680 yeah, but not actually like believing. I don't want to quesse anybody's faith 1897 02:46:13,760 --> 02:46:18,280 per se, but not actually like buying into what it means to be a 1898 02:46:18,360 --> 02:46:20,879 Catholic. Like there'll be a Catholic, but they'll have like the the the 1899 02:46:22,040 --> 02:46:26,639 guys that are probably they'll like not like the Pope. They'll not like the 1900 02:46:26,159 --> 02:46:31,280 nature of services threat, they'll you know, blah blah blah, and it's 1901 02:46:31,319 --> 02:46:33,319 just like, okay, man, like what are we doing here? Yeah? 1902 02:46:33,639 --> 02:46:37,719 Either, like we did a few streams last week or two weeks ago 1903 02:46:37,799 --> 02:46:41,280 where I was saying that, you know, my concern and I'm not judging 1904 02:46:41,399 --> 02:46:46,040 Russell brand or Candaellan's, but yeah, I like that ones I got I 1905 02:46:46,120 --> 02:46:50,799 got that because Jesus is what I descended mass right, So if that's my 1906 02:46:50,040 --> 02:46:52,959 that's my Russell brand, right. I mean, Jesus is not ascended Master, 1907 02:46:54,120 --> 02:46:56,920 He's not one amongst the avatars, you know, and all this kind 1908 02:46:56,920 --> 02:47:00,319 of stuff. So uh, again, not judging. I'm glad he's making 1909 02:47:00,399 --> 02:47:03,440 the move in that direction, but yeah, I think it's a much easier 1910 02:47:03,840 --> 02:47:09,559 way to in terms of externals, say oh I'm going to be a Roman 1911 02:47:09,600 --> 02:47:11,840 Catholic, and I think other Moses made this critique a couple of weeks ago 1912 02:47:11,879 --> 02:47:16,239 as well, that it's very easy to say, well, I'm a Protestant, 1913 02:47:16,280 --> 02:47:18,479 oh I'm going to be a Roman Catholic. Again, not to say 1914 02:47:18,520 --> 02:47:24,760 that they don't necessarily have any internal sincerity, but that the idea is that 1915 02:47:24,879 --> 02:47:30,760 it's all sort of encapsulated in a lot of these externals and external manifestations. 1916 02:47:31,520 --> 02:47:35,639 So that's very different in Orthodoxy, though it's not at least people can play 1917 02:47:35,719 --> 02:47:43,120 games and pretend to be an Orthodox and not work with internal work, but 1918 02:47:45,319 --> 02:47:48,680 it's stressed a lot more Orthodox through a couple of thoughts in there too. 1919 02:47:48,760 --> 02:47:52,600 Chair Yeah, like I mean what I mean one thing is even when we 1920 02:47:52,639 --> 02:47:56,200 look at the conversion process, like we look at these celebrities who basically just 1921 02:47:56,280 --> 02:48:03,719 say, hey, I want to become Catholic and then they're baptized. And 1922 02:48:03,600 --> 02:48:11,040 Candice omen Is baptized quote unquote baptized you know, by herself, without her 1923 02:48:11,159 --> 02:48:18,760 husband, without her family, you know, you know, is basically magically 1924 02:48:18,840 --> 02:48:22,440 Catholic overnight because she wants to be you know, an Orthodox. I mean, 1925 02:48:22,520 --> 02:48:26,239 this is a this is a minimum of like a year long process of 1926 02:48:26,360 --> 02:48:33,440 becoming a catech human actually adhering to the dogmas of the Church, being transformed 1927 02:48:33,680 --> 02:48:39,440 by the prayers, the prayer life, and the fasting, the asceticism. 1928 02:48:39,239 --> 02:48:43,840 So sometimes it's funny because I've had this a few times recently. I have 1929 02:48:43,959 --> 02:48:48,559 people who are becoming Orthodox, and I mentioned this my recent video. They 1930 02:48:48,639 --> 02:48:52,799 go, hey, we were like pillars in our old Protestant church and we 1931 02:48:54,000 --> 02:48:58,559 became Orthodox and we can't even like hang, we can't even hang with how 1932 02:48:58,680 --> 02:49:03,959 rigorous the lifestyle is, let alone the fascinating and everything else. And uh, 1933 02:49:05,079 --> 02:49:09,239 you know, they're there, they get it, you know, they 1934 02:49:09,319 --> 02:49:11,639 kind of come and they're like, well, hey, we're kind of we're 1935 02:49:11,000 --> 02:49:13,079 you know, they can't know how to put it. But it's almost like 1936 02:49:13,600 --> 02:49:18,319 they treat Orthodoxy in the beginning, almost like it's a new denomination that they're 1937 02:49:18,360 --> 02:49:22,200 moving laterally into Orthodoxy, and then when they find out it realize like oh 1938 02:49:22,280 --> 02:49:26,920 no, no, no, this is like an actual belief system that is 1939 02:49:26,120 --> 02:49:33,520 not coherent and with Protestantism it's not it's not Protestant adjacent. Uh, and 1940 02:49:33,639 --> 02:49:39,000 we're not validating everything that you used to believe, and that this is kind 1941 02:49:39,040 --> 02:49:45,239 of like the final, final, mission request. The final level, you 1942 02:49:45,360 --> 02:49:50,319 know, you kind of like burn out on all the Protestant denominations and then 1943 02:49:50,360 --> 02:49:54,639 you're like, you know, your final battle is to join the Orthodox Church 1944 02:49:54,680 --> 02:49:58,639 as the as the end boss, we don't do any of that stuff. 1945 02:49:58,200 --> 02:50:03,280 We don't believe any of that. So anyways, the point is is that 1946 02:50:03,159 --> 02:50:07,879 the conversion process is a year. It's grueling. The priests is actually discerning 1947 02:50:09,440 --> 02:50:11,840 whether or not you're able to live the life and adhere to the doctrines and 1948 02:50:11,959 --> 02:50:16,559 the dogmas of the Church, which are non negotiable. Whereas when people are 1949 02:50:16,639 --> 02:50:22,280 quote unquote converting to Roman Catholicism, I mean, how much how much of 1950 02:50:22,360 --> 02:50:26,280 Roman Catholicism can you know or even understand when you know you were new Age 1951 02:50:26,360 --> 02:50:31,120 or something else like Russell Brand literally two weeks beforehand, I mean two weeks 1952 02:50:31,159 --> 02:50:35,600 before you're a new Age and then all of a sudden you're baptized. I 1953 02:50:35,639 --> 02:50:39,239 mean, it's just not realistic. So I just I don't take any of 1954 02:50:39,280 --> 02:50:41,879 this stuff very seriously. But it also seems like those who are born Roman 1955 02:50:41,959 --> 02:50:46,200 Catholic and I know you've experienced this too, Jay, which is they kind 1956 02:50:46,239 --> 02:50:52,040 of pick and choose what they like in Catholicism also, so all the way 1957 02:50:52,079 --> 02:50:56,000 around, the people who are converting are not really doing anything different than what 1958 02:50:56,159 --> 02:51:01,319 people who grew up in Catholicism are doing, which is modifying it for their 1959 02:51:01,360 --> 02:51:09,000 own personal preference and coming up with, anyways, a belief system that is 1960 02:51:09,040 --> 02:51:13,479 as that's kind of a again it's kind of a Protestant approach to consultism, 1961 02:51:13,559 --> 02:51:16,600 but that is kind of what everyone does ironically. So anyways, those are 1962 02:51:16,680 --> 02:51:22,239 my thoughts. Gwinn. Did you want to respond, Oh, yeah, 1963 02:51:22,360 --> 02:51:26,000 I agree, I agree with a lot of what you said. I was 1964 02:51:26,120 --> 02:51:31,000 I was thinking right, like an analogy would be the difference between a Protestant 1965 02:51:31,040 --> 02:51:37,440 and Catholic, the difference between a libertarian and a like mainstream Republican or you 1966 02:51:37,479 --> 02:51:41,239 know, LP party members, to say, it's like they're not the same 1967 02:51:41,440 --> 02:51:45,520 thing. They may have some things in common, they may agree on some 1968 02:51:45,760 --> 02:51:48,600 things, but they're not the same thing. And yet to your point at 1969 02:51:48,639 --> 02:51:56,719 the end, like there are definitely Catholics who can treat their faith or you 1970 02:51:56,799 --> 02:52:01,959 know, their approach to the faith a little bit more lightly then some more 1971 02:52:01,040 --> 02:52:05,760 devout members might like. But on some level even that like I can make 1972 02:52:07,159 --> 02:52:09,959 my peace with that, and I'll be you know, Oh, I want 1973 02:52:09,959 --> 02:52:11,040 to hide the ball here. Not a Catholic myself, I'm sort of an 1974 02:52:11,079 --> 02:52:15,959 observant, a student of religious but like I can make my peace with that 1975 02:52:16,120 --> 02:52:18,559 because they grew up in the tradition, there's like a sort of shared language. 1976 02:52:18,600 --> 02:52:20,399 Mean, they went to a Catholic school, you know, there's a 1977 02:52:20,440 --> 02:52:26,520 different thing with that versus Oh, I just joined this recently, and I'm 1978 02:52:26,600 --> 02:52:30,799 doing it as much as a cultural as much as a cultural signal as like 1979 02:52:31,159 --> 02:52:35,120 a true quote unquote conversion, And like, yeah, I just it kind 1980 02:52:35,159 --> 02:52:39,440 of rubs me the wrong way. Like I'm like JBP in the sense of 1981 02:52:39,559 --> 02:52:41,200 like I want to want, I want to believe, and I want to 1982 02:52:41,399 --> 02:52:46,159 like want to be earnest in it. And so when I see people who 1983 02:52:46,239 --> 02:52:50,959 I think are not earnest or who are doing things for like potentially the wrong 1984 02:52:52,079 --> 02:52:54,440 reasons, it just kind of gives me the yick. That's just me. 1985 02:52:56,000 --> 02:53:01,479 Yeah, I understand, I feel you. I mean, look, Orthodoxy 1986 02:53:01,600 --> 02:53:05,040 is difficult. I mean, I'm I don't know, I'm eight years in 1987 02:53:05,360 --> 02:53:07,079 seven eight, and I mean that's hard for I have a hard time, 1988 02:53:07,360 --> 02:53:13,559 you know, living this life. I think that's everybody now does anybody disagree? 1989 02:53:13,600 --> 02:53:18,479 You can go thehead line. Uh, I see there's still several people 1990 02:53:18,639 --> 02:53:22,360 kind of in in the line here. Does anybody who disagree want to come 1991 02:53:22,360 --> 02:53:24,959 to the front of line? Raise your hand. If we don't have any 1992 02:53:26,280 --> 02:53:28,079 big disagreeers, I might, I might call it a night. I mean, 1993 02:53:28,120 --> 02:53:33,159 I've been traveling NonStop, so you're thumbing up. Does that thumbs up 1994 02:53:33,239 --> 02:53:43,399 mean you disagree? Or does that mean you cyclical novelty? Yeah, you're 1995 02:53:43,440 --> 02:53:50,239 on, you gonna, I'm you so. Yeah. My question is about 1996 02:53:50,399 --> 02:53:58,040 in John's Gospel chapter twenty one, when he said, when our Lord says 1997 02:53:58,120 --> 02:54:03,520 to Peter, feed my lambs, feed my sheep. Uh? Do you 1998 02:54:03,639 --> 02:54:09,159 not see that as like a pointing to a spiritual supremacy? Do you not 1999 02:54:09,399 --> 02:54:20,120 think that that's directly a response to Peter's three denials? Yeah? But okay, 2000 02:54:20,600 --> 02:54:24,719 okay, And if I can see that it is a special you know, 2001 02:54:26,120 --> 02:54:28,639 position and union that Christ and Peter have. How does any of that 2002 02:54:30,079 --> 02:54:35,079 equate to Vatican one? Well, we're not talking about Vatican one. Well, 2003 02:54:35,120 --> 02:54:37,719 I'm assuming that where you're going with that, as a Roman Catholic is 2004 02:54:37,760 --> 02:54:41,799 in that direction, because an Orthodox person would agree that there's a type of 2005 02:54:41,879 --> 02:54:46,360 Petrian supremacy. It is not Vatican one, okay, But where is the 2006 02:54:46,680 --> 02:54:52,040 Patrians supremacy in the Orthodox Church? I mean, the way that Peter is 2007 02:54:52,079 --> 02:54:54,799 treated in the councils and the tradition of the church fathers is not the Vatican 2008 02:54:54,879 --> 02:54:58,520 one way. He's the Corephaeus of the apostles, the mouthpiece, he's the 2009 02:54:58,639 --> 02:55:03,719 first. Rome was the first see but none of that translates to Vatican one. 2010 02:55:05,879 --> 02:55:09,840 Yeah, but Rome is now cut off from right. Yeah, and 2011 02:55:09,959 --> 02:55:18,639 argue again, correct, okay? And then also what is the view of 2012 02:55:18,760 --> 02:55:24,600 Saint Augustine within Orthodoxy. I mean, he's a church father and a saint, 2013 02:55:24,879 --> 02:55:31,000 but he's not in any way like you know, the daddy of all 2014 02:55:31,079 --> 02:55:33,959 theology, like he is in a lot of the Western Church. So we 2015 02:55:33,040 --> 02:55:37,799 would say he's correct in his you know, spiritual writings, stuff like that. 2016 02:55:39,559 --> 02:55:41,840 He has a lot of devotional writings that are good, a lot of 2017 02:55:41,879 --> 02:55:46,120 catechistis that's good in Caridian and so forth. But when it comes to his 2018 02:55:46,200 --> 02:55:52,680 trinitarian theology, the Church accepted the Cappadocian model at constantin Noble one and not 2019 02:55:52,799 --> 02:55:56,399 the Augustinian model, And even the Roman Catholics should believe this because they claim 2020 02:55:56,479 --> 02:56:00,959 to believe in you know, constantin Noble One, which is the second Ecumenical 2021 02:56:01,000 --> 02:56:05,760 Council, but they don't really accept the Cappadocian model of the trinity. There. 2022 02:56:07,520 --> 02:56:11,760 But don't you see that Saint Agustin affirms the philio of course, yeah, 2023 02:56:11,840 --> 02:56:16,479 and he's a saint within your church, So how do you reconcile? 2024 02:56:16,639 --> 02:56:20,799 So, I mean, there's multiple errors in many saints, so what would 2025 02:56:20,840 --> 02:56:22,920 that have to do with whether he's a saint or not. But if someone 2026 02:56:22,959 --> 02:56:26,920 affirms the philioque now in the Orthodox Church, they would be declared a heretic 2027 02:56:28,000 --> 02:56:31,120 and they'd be excommunicator. Yeah, because the philioque in the Roman Catholic sense 2028 02:56:31,280 --> 02:56:35,920 is condemned in twelve seventy four and at the council, or excuse me, 2029 02:56:35,360 --> 02:56:39,719 it's affirmed dogmatically in the Roman Catholic Church in twelve seventy four, and then 2030 02:56:39,760 --> 02:56:45,159 it's responded to by the Orthodox synods after that, so it becomes a specifically 2031 02:56:45,280 --> 02:56:50,319 condemned and fleshed out position by that time. Okay, but what is the 2032 02:56:50,760 --> 02:56:56,360 what why do you have such a hostility towards the Phillyoque Because it's it's a 2033 02:56:56,520 --> 02:57:03,840 it's a trinitarian error. To make an error of that level ultimately ends up 2034 02:57:03,879 --> 02:57:07,200 giving you a diad. If you read the Mysticgogy on the Holy Spirit by 2035 02:57:07,280 --> 02:57:11,639 Saint Photius, that's the whole argument that he makes. I think, well, 2036 02:57:11,719 --> 02:57:15,719 Catholics would say the opposite, that it actually it shows more the unity 2037 02:57:15,799 --> 02:57:18,920 of the Trinity with what it has nothing to do with. Whether Catholics would 2038 02:57:18,920 --> 02:57:24,319 say that that's the opposite. If the Cappadocian model is what's accepted at constantineble 2039 02:57:24,360 --> 02:57:26,479 one, and if the Cappadocians teach that the Father is the sole cause, 2040 02:57:28,159 --> 02:57:31,719 then the son can't take the father's hyposthetic property, which is to be sole 2041 02:57:31,840 --> 02:57:37,680 cause. Soul cause means one. Okay, But you can point to reading 2042 02:57:37,760 --> 02:57:43,079 of the Cappadocians that actually affirms the filioque. Well, I'm sure Roman Catholics 2043 02:57:43,079 --> 02:57:46,520 would read them that way. But if you go to the readings of doctor 2044 02:57:46,559 --> 02:57:50,760 Branson, for example, who wrote his dissertation on them, he points out 2045 02:57:50,799 --> 02:57:54,360 that all those arguments are pretty bad, and he gives a lot of argumentation 2046 02:57:54,479 --> 02:57:56,920 as to why they don't teach that, particularly the whole stressing of the soul 2047 02:57:58,040 --> 02:58:01,920 cause. So why would they stress sole cause and then turn around and say, 2048 02:58:01,000 --> 02:58:05,680 but he's also not sole cause. Well, because he proceeds from the 2049 02:58:05,840 --> 02:58:07,959 Father, but through the Spirit, proceeds from the Father, but through the 2050 02:58:09,159 --> 02:58:11,840 Okay, But you don't even know that that that's the Orthodox position. So 2051 02:58:11,920 --> 02:58:16,040 that's not what the philioquay is even about. Well, it's it's from and 2052 02:58:16,239 --> 02:58:20,280 through. Now, that's our position, outlined by Gregory of Cyprus at the 2053 02:58:20,399 --> 02:58:24,440 Palomite Synods. That's not what the philioquy is about. The philliokay position is 2054 02:58:24,479 --> 02:58:28,600 not about whether it's through. It's about the Father and the Son together being 2055 02:58:28,680 --> 02:58:35,200 a single eternal principle by which the spirate, the Holy Spirit is spirated. 2056 02:58:35,239 --> 02:58:39,639 That's the definition of lions, which is citing Augustine. That's what's rejected. 2057 02:58:41,520 --> 02:58:52,200 Okay, Oh hey Orthodox, because I mean I would I would just disagree 2058 02:58:52,239 --> 02:58:56,600 with that, Okay, on what basis? On what basis? Well, 2059 02:58:56,680 --> 02:59:03,280 on the basis that the Church has medically upholded. But why would your pope 2060 02:59:03,760 --> 02:59:07,600 at the time of Pope Leo say that you should not hold the phillio okay 2061 02:59:07,600 --> 02:59:13,120 in then reverse that position. Well, it's did you not hear what I 2062 02:59:13,239 --> 02:59:16,159 just said? I'm talking about when it was forbidden to be added to the 2063 02:59:16,239 --> 02:59:22,200 creed by Popelio the second? But was that ex cathedral? So how do 2064 02:59:22,280 --> 02:59:26,159 you know what Sex cathedral? Well, you know because if the pope declares 2065 02:59:26,680 --> 02:59:31,159 speaking, okay, where have the where has the papacy declared all the things 2066 02:59:31,200 --> 02:59:33,920 that are want to get Well? Well, this is but this is what 2067 02:59:35,040 --> 02:59:37,559 you go back to because your church is founded on that. And so where 2068 02:59:37,719 --> 02:59:43,840 is the list of Where is the list of ex cathedral statements? Where's the 2069 02:59:43,000 --> 02:59:46,840 list? Yeah? Would why wouldn't there be? You you said, I 2070 02:59:46,920 --> 02:59:50,479 go by what Sex cathedral? Where has the pope talk about clarity? There's 2071 02:59:50,639 --> 02:59:52,559 much more clarity within the cat Oh you're just stating this, Okay. Where 2072 02:59:52,680 --> 02:59:56,920 is the list of the Okay, so there's clarity, fine, okay, 2073 02:59:56,799 --> 03:00:01,600 So in the clarity that exists in these thousands of pages of papal documents. 2074 03:00:03,159 --> 03:00:07,799 Where is the list of ex cathedra statements? Well, they're defined as dogma, 2075 03:00:07,959 --> 03:00:13,159 right, So the list of ex cathedral documents is defined as dogma. 2076 03:00:13,239 --> 03:00:16,760 And where is this list? Well, every Catholic knows what the Catholic dogma 2077 03:00:16,799 --> 03:00:18,799 has been? Oh do they really? So? Because I've talked to a 2078 03:00:18,840 --> 03:00:22,200 lot of Catholics. I used to be Catholic. I've debated many of the 2079 03:00:22,239 --> 03:00:24,559 top Catholics, and I get different lists of what's ex cathedra from all of 2080 03:00:24,600 --> 03:00:30,840 them. So where is the list of ex cathedra documents? It's not that's 2081 03:00:30,959 --> 03:00:33,799 that's that's besides the point. Oh so there's not one, But I thought 2082 03:00:33,840 --> 03:00:37,440 that's what you said you had. Well, we have much more clarity and 2083 03:00:37,559 --> 03:00:39,959 Uni, where's the clarity if it's based on what's ex cathedral and there's not 2084 03:00:41,000 --> 03:00:43,879 a list of that, Well, where are the where are the disagreements with 2085 03:00:45,000 --> 03:00:48,719 him? Two quot way, two quote way? That's fallacy. Where's the 2086 03:00:48,799 --> 03:00:56,159 list of exicathedra documents? Well? What about the categ categ right? The 2087 03:00:56,360 --> 03:01:03,159 uh what's it called the Catechism? So you think that's all that's needed? 2088 03:01:03,280 --> 03:01:09,040 What about Denzinger? What about Denzi? I mean, is that dogma or 2089 03:01:09,079 --> 03:01:16,959 not? You have to speak to someone that's more informed about that specific Well, 2090 03:01:16,959 --> 03:01:18,959 why are you trying to debate if you're not familiar with this stuff? 2091 03:01:18,799 --> 03:01:22,440 Okay, but I'm still like my arguments are still valid. No they're not, 2092 03:01:22,639 --> 03:01:26,760 they're not even they're not then even get to the low organ because The 2093 03:01:26,840 --> 03:01:31,559 whole point is that the Orthodox in comparison, if we're comparing comparing paradigms, 2094 03:01:31,040 --> 03:01:35,399 right, the Orthodox Church has far less unity, far less clarity about let's 2095 03:01:35,399 --> 03:01:45,959 talk about that. Yeah, but that's not true. You everything you right, 2096 03:01:46,120 --> 03:01:50,760 you have to Orthodox priests that are re baptizing Christians. It's not rebaptism. 2097 03:01:52,360 --> 03:01:54,559 If you don't understand the arguments, that's fine. But the idea that 2098 03:01:54,719 --> 03:02:01,319 somehow Orthodoxy looks different or less than Cathols, like, it's so absolutely insane. 2099 03:02:01,319 --> 03:02:05,239 If you were to look at the Early Church, the way that the 2100 03:02:05,319 --> 03:02:09,239 Early Church live, there's no way you're going to make an argument that the 2101 03:02:09,360 --> 03:02:16,280 modern day Catholic who doesn't plass, doesn't do prayers. Your priests already even 2102 03:02:16,319 --> 03:02:18,120 celibrate. What are you talking? Did you so this guy you don't even 2103 03:02:18,200 --> 03:02:22,319 know? Listen, there it is, there, it is. Do you 2104 03:02:22,440 --> 03:02:28,520 understand that you do you understand that your own church, your own church used 2105 03:02:28,559 --> 03:02:33,000 to promote married clergy. Do you understand that the papacy reverse that you're not 2106 03:02:33,040 --> 03:02:35,879 even you don't even know church history. Okay, but let's talk about the 2107 03:02:37,280 --> 03:02:39,120 No. So you're not gonna say, yeah, you're gonna not going to 2108 03:02:39,200 --> 03:02:43,040 talk about just keep changing the subject. So, yeah, there's not a 2109 03:02:43,159 --> 03:02:46,959 list of excathedral documents. There's so much more clarity. I don't know where 2110 03:02:46,000 --> 03:02:50,440 it is. Maybe it's the Catechism, it's not the Catechism. Ecumenical councils, 2111 03:02:50,799 --> 03:02:58,159 papal and cyclicals and Denzinger would all be part of Catholic dogma. Now 2112 03:02:58,239 --> 03:03:01,000 you say all the inseyclicals, No, No, anything within the giant, 2113 03:03:01,239 --> 03:03:09,879 massive a stack of encyclicals that counts as universal ordinary magisterium, ex cathedral and 2114 03:03:11,040 --> 03:03:15,000 ordinary magistrum. All of that is part of the official teaching of the Church. 2115 03:03:15,680 --> 03:03:20,360 So you, in a Roman Catholic situation are in no better position with 2116 03:03:22,040 --> 03:03:26,600 a generic idea that I follow. It's ex cathedral, here's ten thousand pages 2117 03:03:26,639 --> 03:03:30,440 of documents, But I have no idea what within the ten thousand pages of 2118 03:03:30,479 --> 03:03:33,879 documents is actually ex cathedral and is actually dogma. So you see how this 2119 03:03:33,920 --> 03:03:37,239 whole thing fell apart right away, And then it turned into two quote way, 2120 03:03:37,319 --> 03:03:41,079 which is you have this problem, okay, if it's a comparison of 2121 03:03:41,159 --> 03:03:46,040 paradigms, and your paradigm rested on knowledge of the ex cathedral, and then 2122 03:03:46,079 --> 03:03:50,120 it turns into but your priests are married. He doesn't even know that the 2123 03:03:50,520 --> 03:03:58,399 Latin papacy reversed its stance on previously believing in married clergy. So that guy 2124 03:03:58,440 --> 03:04:13,120 has no idea what he's talking about. Mark in although Yeah, I'm going 2125 03:04:15,319 --> 03:04:22,000 yes, sir, I have a quick question on God's fore knowledge with woka. 2126 03:04:22,799 --> 03:04:28,040 Does it relate to Protestantism, Orthodoxy or Islam? Well, I mean 2127 03:04:28,079 --> 03:04:30,840 it kind of like relates to all of them, because we have like a 2128 03:04:30,959 --> 03:04:33,040 view that you know, God knows everything. I heard you talk about it 2129 03:04:33,120 --> 03:04:37,840 before, so I understand that, Like, just because God knows something does 2130 03:04:37,920 --> 03:04:41,239 not mean that he decrease it, like if I go to azoo and I 2131 03:04:41,319 --> 03:04:43,639 throw a piece of meat, right, So yeah, so he's not the 2132 03:04:43,719 --> 03:04:48,079 direct cause of everything even if he has your Yeah, I understand that part. 2133 03:04:48,120 --> 03:04:50,239 But let's say like an atheist comes up to you and they say, 2134 03:04:50,360 --> 03:04:52,680 like, hey, does God know everything? He will say yes, and 2135 03:04:52,719 --> 03:04:54,840 then they'll say what can God be wrong? You would say no, and 2136 03:04:54,920 --> 03:04:58,479 then they'll say like, Okay, well, if God can't be wrong and 2137 03:04:58,920 --> 03:05:01,920 God knows everything, knows you're going to wake up tomorrow and eat breakfast and 2138 03:05:03,040 --> 03:05:05,280 he cannot be wrong about that, So do you have an option of not 2139 03:05:05,440 --> 03:05:09,200 eating breakfast tomorrow, And basically their objection is if you say yes, that 2140 03:05:09,360 --> 03:05:13,399 means that God could be wrong. If you say no, then there is 2141 03:05:13,520 --> 03:05:16,120 either no free will or that God does not know everything. Do you know 2142 03:05:16,280 --> 03:05:20,840 like a way around that? I don't understand why that would even be a 2143 03:05:20,959 --> 03:05:26,159 problem. Having fore knowledge of multiple potentialities has nothing to do with being right 2144 03:05:26,280 --> 03:05:31,040 or wrong, So I don't understand that at all. The foreknowledge of the 2145 03:05:31,159 --> 03:05:35,600 choice does not dictate the choice. Yeah, that's a fallacy in that arch. 2146 03:05:35,159 --> 03:05:39,239 And having fore knowledge, we have nothing to do with being right or 2147 03:05:39,239 --> 03:05:43,399 wrong, it's just knowing. So I don't get it. I deal with 2148 03:05:43,520 --> 03:05:48,600 this in my philosophy of time Lecture two. And part of the problem too 2149 03:05:50,200 --> 03:05:58,360 is the way that we construct our temporal categories of chronology and think about things 2150 03:05:58,399 --> 03:06:03,760 in terms of our language that doesn't apply to God. And so again, 2151 03:06:05,079 --> 03:06:11,959 if God's when it comes to past and future, God is not limited to 2152 03:06:13,000 --> 03:06:16,399 pass in future the way that we are. He experiences everything in an eternal 2153 03:06:16,559 --> 03:06:22,479 now. So I think part of this problem is we and we apply these 2154 03:06:22,600 --> 03:06:30,159 human categories and think because we can construct a question that it makes sense to 2155 03:06:30,239 --> 03:06:35,479 apply to God. Let me give you another example where this fails. If 2156 03:06:35,559 --> 03:06:39,840 God created time, what was he doing in the time before he created time? 2157 03:06:41,280 --> 03:06:48,879 Now where's the problem? Why? It lies not on the reference God, 2158 03:06:48,079 --> 03:06:52,559 but our language. The fact that the matter is that our language is 2159 03:06:52,559 --> 03:07:00,520 always tensed. So we do know that there's a creation to time, but 2160 03:07:00,719 --> 03:07:07,319 yet to say what was before time connotes a time before time? So the 2161 03:07:07,399 --> 03:07:13,399 land before time? Yeah, the land before time. But do you see 2162 03:07:13,399 --> 03:07:16,600 what I'm saying, Yeah, we can. We can analyze this to be 2163 03:07:16,719 --> 03:07:20,760 like, well, this is the problem with our human categories, our language 2164 03:07:20,840 --> 03:07:24,799 and stuff like this. So when and I'm blanking on the name, who 2165 03:07:24,959 --> 03:07:31,440 comes up with He's a process theologian that comes up with this Clearence and Omelet 2166 03:07:33,719 --> 03:07:39,200 like example, and he's stuck in this dialectics of dealing with Calvinism and then 2167 03:07:39,360 --> 03:07:45,159 goes into process theology. None of those people on either side realized that the 2168 03:07:45,319 --> 03:07:52,360 problem is with our human categories, chronological time, our language. And so 2169 03:07:52,879 --> 03:07:58,360 God, exactly as Jay and Father had said, God's not restricted by this, 2170 03:07:58,559 --> 03:08:07,639 and therefore for his knowing isn't causal, and our doing is what allows 2171 03:08:07,760 --> 03:08:11,680 his knowing. So it's best to think about that synergistically. This is also, 2172 03:08:11,760 --> 03:08:16,239 by the way, necessary why they're the show to show the essence sentergy 2173 03:08:16,239 --> 03:08:22,079 distinction. Because of God's will and his power and his knowledge are identical than 2174 03:08:22,280 --> 03:08:28,479 anything he knows. He also wills, and thus creation becomes not a will 2175 03:08:28,639 --> 03:08:33,440 thing but an emanation. It becomes a necessary, predestined thing. Great, 2176 03:08:35,159 --> 03:08:41,760 thank you. Uh, let's see, Zee might disagree because those are there. 2177 03:08:43,040 --> 03:08:46,079 When that guy said you have married clergy and then I said you have 2178 03:08:46,280 --> 03:08:50,799 gay clergy, I just felt like that was just anyways. I just want 2179 03:08:50,840 --> 03:08:52,479 to just give a little pat on the back for that because I felt like 2180 03:08:52,559 --> 03:09:00,440 that was that's just a beautiful rebuttal to that well. And it's also it's 2181 03:09:00,479 --> 03:09:03,159 not it's not trying to do it's not a cutdown. It's true. It's 2182 03:09:03,239 --> 03:09:11,799 literally true. You know, you said something in another stream with J and 2183 03:09:11,879 --> 03:09:18,040 I, and then Jay and I talked about about this that look, every 2184 03:09:18,120 --> 03:09:26,239 religion has a program and it produces something. Yeah, and Roman Catholicism has 2185 03:09:26,319 --> 03:09:33,840 a program and it produces something too, it produces gay and I said it 2186 03:09:33,959 --> 03:09:37,159 kind of laughing, but it's it's actually true. It's not that they always 2187 03:09:37,280 --> 03:09:41,479 had that, but you brought up a point like this too. You can 2188 03:09:41,639 --> 03:09:48,959 see in the esthetic that there's a there's are It's exactly right, it's no 2189 03:09:50,159 --> 03:09:52,879 coincidence. I think Roman Catholics thinks like, well, just these bad people 2190 03:09:54,079 --> 03:09:56,479 just got in and they're just trying to liberalize the church. It's like, 2191 03:09:58,079 --> 03:10:01,680 no, there's something systemic that came into your church and allowed it to come 2192 03:10:01,760 --> 03:10:05,399 in because of the type of ecclesiology you have, so you have no way 2193 03:10:05,440 --> 03:10:09,879 to get rid of it. But it's now intrinsic into Roman Catholicism. It's 2194 03:10:09,959 --> 03:10:15,920 not just their bad apples. It's essentially what Roman Catholicism is. It's a 2195 03:10:15,959 --> 03:10:22,239 gay program. I mean that's that's just it's not even like like Jay said, 2196 03:10:22,280 --> 03:10:26,079 and it's not really debatable. I mean they've had these they've had these 2197 03:10:28,920 --> 03:10:33,959 internal they've done their own surveys and research done their owners. It's something and 2198 03:10:33,079 --> 03:10:39,600 it's not a joke. It's something like of the clergy have said that they 2199 03:10:39,719 --> 03:10:43,200 have. But I think it's more than that said that they have been sexually 2200 03:10:43,360 --> 03:10:48,959 active at some point with a parishioner. Like that's not that's not an outlier, 2201 03:10:50,239 --> 03:10:52,680 is cope, And they think it's just a bunch of bad apples, 2202 03:10:52,799 --> 03:10:56,559 and we're going to get like I have a dear friend and colleague that is 2203 03:10:56,680 --> 03:11:03,079 really hoping, like I can't wait until they get the new track Cope Pan 2204 03:11:03,680 --> 03:11:05,879 and that, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's gonna He's gonna clean house 2205 03:11:05,959 --> 03:11:11,760 and everything's gonna be okay. I'm like, do you think you're gonna allow 2206 03:11:11,840 --> 03:11:15,360 that? The thing that I made the long argument about, or the argument 2207 03:11:15,360 --> 03:11:18,079 about for a long time is like, look, I do carpentery, so 2208 03:11:18,159 --> 03:11:20,520 you do you cut in wood? Okay, So if I cut a two 2209 03:11:20,600 --> 03:11:26,879 flip board and I'm an eighth of an inch off, it's probably not going 2210 03:11:26,079 --> 03:11:30,040 you know what I mean. If I'm one degree off, it's not gonna 2211 03:11:30,559 --> 03:11:33,399 affect the overall bills. Okay, it's only two feet long, and I'm 2212 03:11:33,399 --> 03:11:35,159 gonna end up whenever an eighth of an inch off or something like that. 2213 03:11:35,319 --> 03:11:41,120 Okay, But if I'm if I'm an eighth of an inch off or two 2214 03:11:41,159 --> 03:11:43,639 degrees let's say it's two degrees off and I've got to cut one hundred foot 2215 03:11:43,680 --> 03:11:46,799 board, I'm gonna be so wildly off, And so I have to make 2216 03:11:46,840 --> 03:11:50,879 the argument over time, like look, okay, so if the great Skizum 2217 03:11:52,360 --> 03:11:56,879 is basically a thousand years ago, and Rhea's Orthodox are off even by one 2218 03:11:58,000 --> 03:12:03,840 degree, then our destination a thousand years later would show itself that we would 2219 03:12:03,680 --> 03:12:11,440 be exhibiting a bunch of very bizarre behavior and trends and and creating a kind 2220 03:12:11,479 --> 03:12:15,000 of a crazy mess. The irony is like, look, if you look 2221 03:12:15,040 --> 03:12:18,920 over a thousand years, the average Orthodox is still keeping left. It's not 2222 03:12:18,479 --> 03:12:24,600 it's this stuff is not even happening in Catholicism. I mean literally, the 2223 03:12:24,719 --> 03:12:31,280 standards and expectations for a catechumen in the Orthodox Church are more than the standards 2224 03:12:31,319 --> 03:12:39,120 and standards and in from anastic in Catholicism. So you're saying, okay, 2225 03:12:39,159 --> 03:12:43,079 hey, over the last thousand years, we got wildly off base by our 2226 03:12:43,600 --> 03:12:48,559 lack of accepted the philioque, and we ended up more traditional and aesthetic than 2227 03:12:48,600 --> 03:13:00,399 the quote other church. If this doesn't make any sense now, a bunch 2228 03:13:00,440 --> 03:13:03,399 of pages and websites, and I mean I've heard all the copes for me. 2229 03:13:03,600 --> 03:13:07,799 I know everything they're going to say. It's the liberal media. It's 2230 03:13:07,879 --> 03:13:11,319 not true, that's the libs, the liberal media. I brought come on, 2231 03:13:11,760 --> 03:13:18,280 like I've been to plenty of Romancallolic churches in my life. I can't 2232 03:13:18,360 --> 03:13:24,120 think of that many priests that I met that weren't sassy and if you know 2233 03:13:24,200 --> 03:13:30,079 what I mean. Let's see anybody, Okay, yeah, appreciate it. 2234 03:13:33,280 --> 03:13:37,040 Risen and Rachel. Good to see you, Jay, thanks for having me 2235 03:13:37,159 --> 03:13:41,959 on and my prayer and love to all. Yah Uh last chance. Anybody 2236 03:13:43,040 --> 03:13:46,239 disagree, put your hand up and we'll go to you. Otherwise I'm pretty 2237 03:13:48,040 --> 03:13:50,680 pretty worn out. I might have to just call it a night here. 2238 03:13:50,760 --> 03:13:56,719 Let's see Cameron forty dollars. Why does the Orthodox Church reject the Ethiopian Orthodox 2239 03:13:58,079 --> 03:14:03,479 over crystallogical errors? You could read the book sin Cyril of Alexander the Christological 2240 03:14:03,559 --> 03:14:13,639 Controversy. Uh, striker, So just remember today's topics are the topics listed, 2241 03:14:13,719 --> 03:14:16,799 It's not all the other things. So keep it to the topic. 2242 03:14:16,920 --> 03:14:22,639 Go ahead. Yeah, I'm mute, man, you're you're here. You 2243 03:14:22,760 --> 03:14:28,000 got your hand raisers on mute? Thank you? Sorry, sorry, it's 2244 03:14:28,000 --> 03:14:31,360 all good. So I'm quick curiosity, And then I have a question. 2245 03:14:33,000 --> 03:14:39,360 Are you currently an active Roman Catholic or Orthodox Catholic or Catholic Orthodox Catholic? 2246 03:14:39,479 --> 03:14:48,680 Yes, okay, Now have you not come to the realization that Catholicism is 2247 03:14:48,280 --> 03:14:54,879 just another form of santeria. Uh, Well, santoria is a specific you 2248 03:14:54,959 --> 03:15:01,799 know, kind of island nation sing critic type of things. So why would 2249 03:15:01,959 --> 03:15:07,920 orthodox Christianity be centurio when orthodox Christianity is what you can read in the first 2250 03:15:07,760 --> 03:15:13,479 two, three, four, five, sixty seven centuries of Christianity. Well, 2251 03:15:13,600 --> 03:15:22,399 Catholicism isn't Christianity? Have you? Catholicism is a form of centoria. 2252 03:15:22,239 --> 03:15:26,559 And where where do you get this idea? Well, just from the rituals 2253 03:15:28,040 --> 03:15:31,680 and all it is is Okay, have you read any of that? Have 2254 03:15:31,799 --> 03:15:35,399 you read any of that? Have you read any of the church fathers of 2255 03:15:35,479 --> 03:15:39,760 the first three, four, five, six seventh centuries? I've read quite 2256 03:15:39,799 --> 03:15:45,319 a few on the popes. That's not what I said. Have you read 2257 03:15:45,319 --> 03:15:50,159 any the church fathers of those centuries? The church fathers? No? I? 2258 03:15:50,639 --> 03:15:54,719 Okay, probably so then you would know that the type of Christianity that 2259 03:15:54,840 --> 03:16:01,000 we practice is what they talked about. Okay, But that doesn't make it. 2260 03:16:01,959 --> 03:16:05,760 Oh, that doesn't make it a part of christiandom. It's literally just 2261 03:16:05,959 --> 03:16:13,360 a form of santoria. If you put sanchoria and Catholicism. Okay, no 2262 03:16:13,520 --> 03:16:16,559 idea, what he's talking about. So anybody else is the last chance. 2263 03:16:16,799 --> 03:16:22,479 We're not going to do this super low tier stuff where people are not going 2264 03:16:22,559 --> 03:16:26,280 to listen. Anybody else want to raise your hand? Last chance? There's 2265 03:16:26,399 --> 03:16:31,200 nine people here. Anybody disagree, but you gotta have a good argument. 2266 03:16:31,280 --> 03:16:37,639 You need to make a good case as to why George you a disagree? 2267 03:16:39,000 --> 03:16:43,799 George just popped up? Are you there? You want to So if you 2268 03:16:43,920 --> 03:16:48,639 disagree, you got to do the hand up because I can't go through all 2269 03:16:48,680 --> 03:16:52,239 these people. There's like ten people. So if you disagree, hand up, 2270 03:16:52,319 --> 03:17:01,280 last chance? Anybody. I don't see any hands up? So Ryan 2271 03:17:01,399 --> 03:17:05,559 Beamish says, for three dollars, do you know Sean Griffin? I do 2272 03:17:05,719 --> 03:17:09,799 not. This is a Hebrew roots person with thousands of followers. Well, 2273 03:17:09,840 --> 03:17:13,799 I mean we had Bryson. I mean he's got a huge audience. That 2274 03:17:15,000 --> 03:17:20,159 debate was, uh something else? Goff, what's up? Did you want 2275 03:17:20,200 --> 03:17:33,159 to speak? You gotta unmute? Golf, you're up? You gotta unmute, 2276 03:17:33,200 --> 03:17:39,840 you're up? What's up? Yeah? All right, what's up? 2277 03:17:39,879 --> 03:17:45,399 Man? Yeah? It's just uh. I guess my question would be because 2278 03:17:45,559 --> 03:17:50,520 when I was listening to you mixing about the the gay thing. As far 2279 03:17:50,559 --> 03:17:54,159 as the gay priest with the capital of the church, I guess my disagreement 2280 03:17:54,239 --> 03:18:00,639 will be, is it in off brests of Christianity when you did Protestants, 2281 03:18:00,639 --> 03:18:07,760 Agasm or Eastern Orthodoxy there's cleanings that have been I would say kind of Uh. 2282 03:18:09,319 --> 03:18:11,639 I can't say, for the lack of a better word, I just 2283 03:18:11,719 --> 03:18:18,200 think infiltration where there's a situation where there's a lot of homo stations priests where 2284 03:18:18,239 --> 03:18:22,879 you with particularly what you did in the process the YouTube channel, our funnel, 2285 03:18:22,959 --> 03:18:28,040 that particularly, that's all they deal with. Where there's a lot of 2286 03:18:28,120 --> 03:18:33,200 six year deviates. And I've also bootmore some evidence for even in Eastern Orthodox 2287 03:18:33,319 --> 03:18:39,239 Church they'll stake your a deviates. So I just think it's afraid it is 2288 03:18:39,280 --> 03:18:43,319 late with that putt that strictly all Roman Catholics. Now, well, the 2289 03:18:43,479 --> 03:18:50,239 argument was not that there's no temptation or problem like that anywhere except in Rome. 2290 03:18:50,319 --> 03:18:56,479 The argument was that the extreme percentages of that amongst the clergy is what 2291 03:18:56,799 --> 03:19:05,600 is unbelievable. So yeah, there's absolutely gay Orthodox clerics who have been compromised 2292 03:19:05,680 --> 03:19:09,280 or who have that sin. Absolutely, but the scope and the scale of 2293 03:19:09,360 --> 03:19:13,559 it is kind of mind boggling is the point in the Roman Catholic situation? 2294 03:19:13,760 --> 03:19:18,719 Christen five dollars. Somebody said that link doesn't work. I'm testing it out, 2295 03:19:18,879 --> 03:19:22,600 so it looks like it worked. Appreciate that anti nerd alliance. One 2296 03:19:22,680 --> 03:19:28,639 dollar. What is the point of physicality in the final state of the escaton, 2297 03:19:28,079 --> 03:19:33,360 New Heavens and New Earth? If eternity is a big singing throne room, 2298 03:19:33,000 --> 03:19:37,239 Yeah, I think I don't think eternity is just that. I mean, 2299 03:19:37,319 --> 03:19:41,319 we have new Heavens, New Earth, also the eternal Heavens, so 2300 03:19:41,600 --> 03:19:46,799 it's all of that. God didn't create us just to be immobile beings and 2301 03:19:46,920 --> 03:19:52,840 stasis. That's what Origin said, and that position is actually condemned. That's 2302 03:19:52,879 --> 03:19:58,360 an Originist position. So you're talking about the beatific vision of the Romancalic Church, 2303 03:19:58,440 --> 03:20:03,079 and that's not what we believe. John con Jalvin five dollars. Your 2304 03:20:03,200 --> 03:20:09,440 last TikTok live stream was not that low tier. Do you plan to do 2305 03:20:09,520 --> 03:20:13,200 another one? That's true, that one ended up being an off, one 2306 03:20:13,319 --> 03:20:18,959 off where we actually ended up with not that many low tier people. Usually 2307 03:20:18,000 --> 03:20:22,639 TikTok is the worst, but every now and then there's going to be you 2308 03:20:22,719 --> 03:20:26,680 know, a decent crop of people that happen upon it BMX nineteen sixty six, 2309 03:20:26,799 --> 03:20:31,079 ten dollars. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. Hollywood. He's 2310 03:20:31,159 --> 03:20:35,840 raising his hand, Hollywood, what's up, mister baseball? What's going on? 2311 03:20:37,799 --> 03:20:43,840 He's raising his hand making a fuss? Hollywood? Always up to no 2312 03:20:43,959 --> 03:20:56,360 good? Go ahead, I'm mute. You're there, Free Palaestine? Okay? 2313 03:20:56,479 --> 03:20:58,479 Did you want to talk about any of the topics tonight or not? 2314 03:21:01,399 --> 03:21:05,239 What the fuck? The Big three nigga is? Okay? That was super 2315 03:21:05,319 --> 03:21:16,760 funny, dude. Let's see a J. What's up? That was the 2316 03:21:16,879 --> 03:21:26,559 real basse trod standard right there, a J. You want to say something? 2317 03:21:26,280 --> 03:21:37,479 You popped on? What's going on? Got unmute? Man? You 2318 03:21:37,799 --> 03:21:43,639 probably didn't turn your mic on. Yeah, what's up? I'm a freak 2319 03:21:43,719 --> 03:21:48,799 palace town. No, we're talking about No, the topic is listing. 2320 03:21:48,680 --> 03:21:54,319 The topic is listed. Bro, are are are you? Are you? 2321 03:21:54,559 --> 03:21:58,920 Are you over there? No? You're right here in America. Wow, 2322 03:22:00,040 --> 03:22:03,040 Why are you worried about free in Palestine? You're not even talking to me. 2323 03:22:03,120 --> 03:22:05,600 You're talking to America. You're talking to the guy that already laughed. 2324 03:22:05,639 --> 03:22:11,920 Man. The topic is listed, The borders are you're not even you're talking 2325 03:22:11,959 --> 03:22:16,079 to a person that's gone, dude, all kinds of all, Right, 2326 03:22:16,319 --> 03:22:20,479 this is ridiculous. This is when it actually I want to say, I 2327 03:22:20,559 --> 03:22:24,879 gotta say, I really want to hear more from AJ about the borders situation. 2328 03:22:26,840 --> 03:22:31,719 Well he I think there was a lag. So there was a lag, 2329 03:22:31,879 --> 03:22:41,559 and he's but I like the voice, you know, open, George, 2330 03:22:43,040 --> 03:22:50,680 George straight, good lord. These people are clueless. What's on your 2331 03:22:50,719 --> 03:22:56,120 mind? Man? Hey? Su what is your what's your take on this? 2332 03:22:56,399 --> 03:22:58,920 Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Muslim? I mean I'm a little late 2333 03:23:00,079 --> 03:23:03,600 to well, I argue for Orthodoxy. So we've been we've been at this 2334 03:23:03,959 --> 03:23:09,079 h for about three hours. Okay, I'm sorry I missed most of that. 2335 03:23:09,520 --> 03:23:15,200 So I love a lot about the Orthodox Church. I mean, they're 2336 03:23:15,399 --> 03:23:20,319 like everything the Catholic Church is not, except for Mary. I mean they 2337 03:23:20,360 --> 03:23:28,639 are a big time on Mary being the Queen of Heaven. Catholics or Orthodox, 2338 03:23:30,440 --> 03:23:35,399 well, the Orthodox and the Catholics. The Catholics the Orthodox they are 2339 03:23:35,559 --> 03:23:41,040 not. They don't have all the traditions that the Catholics have. So I 2340 03:23:41,120 --> 03:23:48,120 think the Orthodox was the original church until you start getting into Queen of Heaven 2341 03:23:48,440 --> 03:23:52,159 and yeah, well, mother of God. How could you say that Mary 2342 03:23:52,360 --> 03:23:56,000 is the mother of God? Do you believe in the trinity? I mean 2343 03:23:56,559 --> 03:24:00,760 the second part, okay, So the person that came forth fourth from Mary 2344 03:24:00,920 --> 03:24:03,120 is a divine person. That's what theotokos means. It means that Jesus is 2345 03:24:03,159 --> 03:24:07,440 the Logos, the second person the God had. So the person that she 2346 03:24:07,559 --> 03:24:11,799 gave birth to is the person of Logos. That makes her mother of God, 2347 03:24:11,879 --> 03:24:16,799 theotokos. That's the whole point behind the Council of Ephesus, mother of 2348 03:24:16,120 --> 03:24:20,680 Jesus. She's not the mother of God. So again, you don't even 2349 03:24:20,760 --> 03:24:24,319 understand what it means. What it means is that the person that came forth 2350 03:24:24,360 --> 03:24:28,159 from her in the incarnation is a divine person. It does not mean that 2351 03:24:28,280 --> 03:24:37,360 she caused his divinity of God. And I am telling you what we say 2352 03:24:37,879 --> 03:24:43,879 before God. I am telling you other God. You don't understand what it 2353 03:24:45,000 --> 03:24:50,559 means. I'm telling you what it means. No, you haven't. The 2354 03:24:50,760 --> 03:24:56,319 Orthodox Church holds to the fourth Acumenical the third Acumenical Council, which teaches theotokos. 2355 03:24:56,399 --> 03:25:00,479 That's where it comes from. Our third Council Ephesus. I get it, 2356 03:25:00,680 --> 03:25:03,079 but you don't get it because you didn't. You thought you thought it 2357 03:25:03,159 --> 03:25:05,000 meant that Mary caused his divinity. So you don't get it. No, 2358 03:25:05,159 --> 03:25:09,600 I didn't say that. You did too. You said that that's blasphemous because 2359 03:25:09,639 --> 03:25:11,760 it makes her the mother of God, meaning that she caused his divinity. 2360 03:25:13,079 --> 03:25:20,360 Blame you, George. You just can't separate the two. He wasn't two 2361 03:25:20,479 --> 03:25:31,600 persons, he was one person with two natures. But that she was the 2362 03:25:31,760 --> 03:25:37,120 Mother of God is heresy. It's not heresy because of what we just explained 2363 03:25:37,159 --> 03:25:43,879 to you. This is literally, historically always accepted by all Christians. This 2364 03:25:43,040 --> 03:25:46,159 is not even like, this isn't even an innovation that this is. This 2365 03:25:46,319 --> 03:25:52,040 is literally the historical position of the church. You know, over a thousand 2366 03:25:52,079 --> 03:25:56,680 years before the Reformation even began. No one has ever a thousand years I 2367 03:25:56,719 --> 03:26:03,159 mean delated, know what, George, listen, I'm glad, I'm glad 2368 03:26:03,200 --> 03:26:09,159 we all seventeen hundred years later that you came along and you're finally able to 2369 03:26:09,200 --> 03:26:13,760 set everybody right in Christendom from the beginning due to your best wisdom and knowledge 2370 03:26:13,799 --> 03:26:18,280 and spiritual prowess. So thank you. We've all been so foolish. We 2371 03:26:18,399 --> 03:26:24,559 just didn't understand how foolish we were. I love this. So do you 2372 03:26:24,680 --> 03:26:30,399 understand that the word mother of God does not mean that she caused his divinity. 2373 03:26:30,479 --> 03:26:33,959 It means that she was a real human mother to a divine person. 2374 03:26:33,200 --> 03:26:39,319 That's what it means. She was the mother of Jesus. Do you not 2375 03:26:39,440 --> 03:26:43,280 think Jesus is a divine person? Are you a trinitarian or an aran? 2376 03:26:45,319 --> 03:26:48,040 Jesus was a man? Okay, so you're not even a Christian, so 2377 03:26:48,959 --> 03:26:54,479 you're a heretic. But also God is our savior. Okay, so if 2378 03:26:54,479 --> 03:27:01,040 he's also God, that's what theotokos means. Yeah, totally understand. You 2379 03:27:01,159 --> 03:27:07,840 don't understand because you're just denied it God the term understand that you don't understand 2380 03:27:07,920 --> 03:27:11,680 it because you're constantly contradicting he is the mother of Saying that she is the 2381 03:27:11,760 --> 03:27:16,440 mother of God is wrong. It's not Jesus. He's a divine person. 2382 03:27:16,600 --> 03:27:22,000 Do you understand He's the second person of the Godhead. Of course, then 2383 03:27:22,079 --> 03:27:28,360 then she is Theatuko's that's a logical necessity, is the physical manifestation. But 2384 03:27:28,520 --> 03:27:35,360 that does not mean that she is God. That is what it means existed. 2385 03:27:35,920 --> 03:27:41,200 So I already addressed. I literally, can you even hear what you're 2386 03:27:41,239 --> 03:27:46,159 saying? I just addressed your claim that she caused his divinity. You said 2387 03:27:46,200 --> 03:27:50,360 you don't believe that. You just restated it. Do you even understand the 2388 03:27:50,399 --> 03:27:58,000 words you're saying? Dude, that's that's the explanation for the heresy. Wrong, 2389 03:27:58,319 --> 03:28:03,559 it's not a hair See, he's the second Do you understand what the 2390 03:28:03,680 --> 03:28:07,200 second person of the god had means? Do you know what that means? 2391 03:28:07,680 --> 03:28:11,600 What does it mean? What does it mean? Listen? I don't need 2392 03:28:11,959 --> 03:28:20,360 to defend the position that or the definition of what you're presenting. Okay, 2393 03:28:20,639 --> 03:28:24,559 do you believe in the trinity? Mary? Mary was the mother of Jesus. 2394 03:28:24,799 --> 03:28:31,440 Okay, you're an astorian, understand. Okay, so you're a historian. 2395 03:28:31,639 --> 03:28:33,799 So there's two persons, two subjects. There's Jesus and the logos. 2396 03:28:41,920 --> 03:28:43,799 This is ridiculous. Is the dumbest thing I've heard all night. This is 2397 03:28:43,920 --> 03:28:52,479 like this guy. I mean, he literally says the very thing that he 2398 03:28:52,520 --> 03:28:54,879 says. He wasn't saying. This is unreal. I think one of the 2399 03:28:54,920 --> 03:28:58,879 things he said was he was like the physical manifestation of God. He does. 2400 03:29:00,040 --> 03:29:05,360 Sometimes you get into you're like this language that they're using is it's like 2401 03:29:05,719 --> 03:29:09,680 it's kind of what they're coming up with on the spot, kind of like, 2402 03:29:09,799 --> 03:29:18,360 what are you trying to say by that? Anybody else who disagrees the 2403 03:29:18,440 --> 03:29:26,760 last chance. It's weird too that I've had this discussion, you know, 2404 03:29:26,479 --> 03:29:31,159 hundreds, maybe thousands of times. You'll notice that when you explain something, 2405 03:29:33,079 --> 03:29:37,920 the person doesn't listen. They don't they're just waiting until you stop talking so 2406 03:29:39,040 --> 03:29:41,639 that they can assert their thing. They're not even listening to the point you're 2407 03:29:41,680 --> 03:29:46,479 making because the point I made explained, No, Mary is not causing his 2408 03:29:46,600 --> 03:29:52,680 divinity right, and so there's an identification between the subject that came forth from 2409 03:29:52,719 --> 03:29:56,760 her and the second person of the Godhead, the logos that means he's a 2410 03:29:56,799 --> 03:30:05,639 divine person. That's the teaching of emphesis. The thing that baffles me Jay 2411 03:30:05,840 --> 03:30:09,559 is just again, even as a former Protestant, when you look back and 2412 03:30:09,639 --> 03:30:13,120 you go listen, the church has never taught anything different than this. This 2413 03:30:13,239 --> 03:30:16,840 has never been a Christian right. But a Protestant would just think, yeah, 2414 03:30:16,959 --> 03:30:20,959 but I don't accept any of those churches. It's just it's just my 2415 03:30:22,120 --> 03:30:26,920 grip. What I'm saying is that it's almost like this idea that Christianity got 2416 03:30:26,040 --> 03:30:33,760 lost at the very beginning absolutely somehow refound over a thousand years. So it's 2417 03:30:33,840 --> 03:30:37,360 like, yeah, the blackout, there's a thousand year blackout. Yeah, 2418 03:30:37,360 --> 03:30:39,360 and then it's like, well, what does that tell you about God? 2419 03:30:41,159 --> 03:30:45,639 Like the Holy Spirituist was not powerful enough to enlighten the Church Fathers. No, 2420 03:30:45,760 --> 03:30:48,440 there was a bunch of secret there was a there was a secret group 2421 03:30:48,600 --> 03:30:52,879 that was my group. That's usually what they'll say, so brilliant, how 2422 03:30:52,959 --> 03:30:56,319 convenient. Yeah, which is not evidence for it. But there's just a 2423 03:30:56,399 --> 03:31:03,760 secret group. Kevin, we're taking disagrees. I just wanted to ask you 2424 03:31:03,840 --> 03:31:09,840 real quick, do you have any recommendations for any books for like the Church 2425 03:31:09,920 --> 03:31:13,879 Fathers. I'm trying to find a book that I want to give about like 2426 03:31:13,959 --> 03:31:16,719 all the Church Fathers. Well, I don't know that there's one book about 2427 03:31:16,760 --> 03:31:22,280 all the Church Fathers. But you could get something like yarslat Pelicans Volume one 2428 03:31:22,319 --> 03:31:26,239 as an introduction. You could get on the Incarnation by Athanasius as an introduction. 2429 03:31:26,399 --> 03:31:30,680 You could get the Five Theological Orations of Saint Gregor, Nazi and Zeus 2430 03:31:30,799 --> 03:31:33,440 as an introduction. Those are places I would start. Then I would move 2431 03:31:33,520 --> 03:31:39,399 to you know, Basil in the Holy Spirit, Basil against Unumbius, and 2432 03:31:39,520 --> 03:31:43,000 it'll start getting a little more kind of kind of theological if that's what you're 2433 03:31:43,200 --> 03:32:00,399 if you're what you're looking for, Gooner Gosling Ei there, Yeah, sulicon 2434 03:32:00,440 --> 03:32:07,799 near me, big fan. I just had a quick question. Why wouldn't 2435 03:32:07,799 --> 03:32:11,239 you Itbadam Green? Yeah, I mean I've answered it many times. And 2436 03:32:11,600 --> 03:32:16,680 if you look at the debates that he already has done, like with David 2437 03:32:16,719 --> 03:32:20,440 Patrick Harry, I mean it's a person who's demonstrated that he doesn't really know 2438 03:32:20,520 --> 03:32:26,239 anything about basic logic, basic fallacies, doesn't care about justification, and all 2439 03:32:26,280 --> 03:32:33,399 the areas where I usually take debates. He already debated with gam Cotel. 2440 03:32:33,600 --> 03:32:37,079 So what's why would what's the point of having that same debate over again? 2441 03:32:39,520 --> 03:32:43,479 Well, I just think it'd be an interesting discussion, you know. I 2442 03:32:43,559 --> 03:32:46,760 mean, you haven't really provided, like, you know, a counter argument, 2443 03:32:48,000 --> 03:32:50,879 right, So I've never addressed paganism and relativism ever, even though I've 2444 03:32:50,920 --> 03:32:58,280 addressed a thousand times, I've never addressed it. But then why not debating 2445 03:32:58,319 --> 03:33:01,719 them? Because I would I have to do the same debate that I've already 2446 03:33:01,799 --> 03:33:07,239 done, and that a guy who's demonstrated like very low tier, low quality 2447 03:33:07,360 --> 03:33:15,639 level of debating. Why do I have to do that? Because, yeah, 2448 03:33:15,680 --> 03:33:18,879 but I'm not here to be your monkey. I don't do the content 2449 03:33:18,680 --> 03:33:39,920 as you're dancing, monkey, Anthony, you got an unmute Anthony? Did 2450 03:33:41,000 --> 03:33:46,079 you want to speak? Yeah? Are you sorry? I was just turning? 2451 03:33:48,440 --> 03:33:54,120 Are you I'm not really much of a debater, but his Catholic press 2452 03:33:54,280 --> 03:33:58,120 Ortho exmism debate for Jay Dire And I'm really not sure who you are arresting. 2453 03:33:58,159 --> 03:34:03,680 You're part of the Alex Shows team and I host the fourth Hour on 2454 03:34:03,799 --> 03:34:07,479 Fridays. What about it? Oh, I've been listening to for years, 2455 03:34:11,559 --> 03:34:16,760 so I'm just kind of curious. Are you what your religious believe is Orthodox? 2456 03:34:16,920 --> 03:34:24,319 So we've been arguing that for the last several hours. Okay, I 2457 03:34:24,479 --> 03:34:33,680 was raised Catholic, so I believe in the concept of that there is what 2458 03:34:33,840 --> 03:34:37,799 it is Orthodox. You guys don't believe that you believe the Father's Son, 2459 03:34:37,959 --> 03:34:43,079 the Holy Spirit, but the Holy I'm not trying to be main but we've 2460 03:34:43,200 --> 03:34:45,920 we've been We've already done all that. Like you can go back and scroll 2461 03:34:45,959 --> 03:34:48,079 back if you want to hear all that the earlier topics. We're not going 2462 03:34:48,159 --> 03:34:52,120 to repeat all that, Aj, did you want to come back and make 2463 03:34:52,200 --> 03:34:54,520 a point. It's not a border debate. We're here, We're not talking 2464 03:34:54,520 --> 03:35:11,200 about the border. We got. I'm mute, Kay, go ahead, 2465 03:35:16,840 --> 03:35:18,280 all right, there's too much of a delay, so we can't hear you, 2466 03:35:20,520 --> 03:35:35,760 creative one. Got I'm mute. Can you hear me? Jay? 2467 03:35:37,040 --> 03:35:39,079 What's up? Man? I want to say, what's up? I want 2468 03:35:39,159 --> 03:35:45,639 you. I want you to know that it was you who made me an 2469 03:35:45,680 --> 03:35:52,280 inquiry today in orthodoxy. Oh that's great. I visited Saint Andrews and Riverside. 2470 03:35:52,639 --> 03:35:54,920 Okay, that's good to hear. I really I really appreciate everything. 2471 03:35:56,920 --> 03:35:58,920 And then that you've done in helping me out with that, you know, 2472 03:36:00,680 --> 03:36:03,760 as an inquirer recently with this thing that happened with the Church of Alexandria with 2473 03:36:03,879 --> 03:36:11,879 the deaconess h and I heard Rachel saying earlier when she was describing how even 2474 03:36:11,959 --> 03:36:18,959 from early the Radical Reformation, when when women were being brought into the clergy, 2475 03:36:18,479 --> 03:36:22,319 that that was always kind of a sign of a trojan horse. And 2476 03:36:22,399 --> 03:36:26,200 then this just thing, this thing just recently happened, and you know, 2477 03:36:26,360 --> 03:36:28,600 again, I'm an I'm an inquirer right like over a year now, and 2478 03:36:30,399 --> 03:36:33,200 I was just like, what is the actual I haven't I don't know if 2479 03:36:33,200 --> 03:36:39,280 I've actually heard an official position on how that's being looked at. So I 2480 03:36:39,399 --> 03:36:43,239 was just wondering what your thoughts were on that. I mean, I don't 2481 03:36:43,360 --> 03:36:48,120 know what's going on in Africa under the Greeks. I have no idea, 2482 03:36:48,440 --> 03:36:54,799 so I couldn't say what they're up to or what the retribution will be, 2483 03:36:54,959 --> 03:36:56,959 if any at all. So no idea I wish I could. I mean, 2484 03:36:58,920 --> 03:37:03,120 it's one awe instance. I think Father Turbo's commented on it, and 2485 03:37:03,239 --> 03:37:07,319 his comments were pretty solid common sense. I mean, we've done several podcasts 2486 03:37:07,399 --> 03:37:13,840 talking about how you can't have this thing as deacons in the way. Sure 2487 03:37:16,280 --> 03:37:18,360 well, I mean the thing is that we have a historical president in the 2488 03:37:18,479 --> 03:37:26,879 church, but we have corresponding canons that guide the process of making a deaconess, 2489 03:37:28,399 --> 03:37:33,280 which is not a liturgical role. Yeah, so that the basically the 2490 03:37:33,360 --> 03:37:37,120 three main kind of points are it's supposed to one if it's supposed to be 2491 03:37:37,440 --> 03:37:41,159 basically a celibate woman, or I think actually the language usually instead of celibate 2492 03:37:41,280 --> 03:37:46,399 is usually virgin or basically monastic. So number one, they have to be 2493 03:37:46,520 --> 03:37:50,319 monastic. Number two they have to be forty years old. And then number 2494 03:37:50,399 --> 03:37:54,879 three is it's a non liturgical role. It was a role specifically for the 2495 03:37:56,079 --> 03:38:01,840 use of baptizing other women and doing because people were baptized naked, and so 2496 03:38:01,000 --> 03:38:05,639 it was a way for women to baptize other women. And then obviously the 2497 03:38:05,719 --> 03:38:13,040 priest would do the chrism and the prayers beforehand the christ nation. So this 2498 03:38:13,159 --> 03:38:20,239 instance in Africa basically violates all three of those canons. The argument being set 2499 03:38:20,319 --> 03:38:22,520 forth, or what I've seen, maybe the only argument put forth is that 2500 03:38:22,600 --> 03:38:28,600 Saint Nctadios of Aguina, a modern day saint, had had actually a point 2501 03:38:28,600 --> 03:38:33,000 of dconess, but what he had done was taken elderly. None made her 2502 03:38:33,040 --> 03:38:37,319 a daconess. And because the monastery did not have a priest, and she 2503 03:38:37,600 --> 03:38:41,000 was able to give reserved sacraments, which is consecrated body of blood of Christ 2504 03:38:41,479 --> 03:38:46,000 that is kept in a tabernacle on the altar, she was able to give 2505 03:38:46,040 --> 03:38:48,879 that to the other nuns. I don't think anybody has an argument against that 2506 03:38:50,159 --> 03:38:52,840 or a problem with what Saint Nactadios did, because it was keeping in line 2507 03:38:52,920 --> 03:38:58,840 with the spirit of the Cannons, with the church and the role this person 2508 03:39:00,200 --> 03:39:03,719 I can't, I don't want to call her a deaconess, but this person 2509 03:39:03,959 --> 03:39:11,399 in Alexandria, Africa was not forty years old, is married, and then 2510 03:39:11,440 --> 03:39:18,280 they have her performing litanies during the liturgy and then actually communing people from the 2511 03:39:18,399 --> 03:39:26,920 chalice. So on every level, there's a historical reality and that everything that 2512 03:39:26,000 --> 03:39:31,399 she's doing is a complete innovation of that and the violation of the canons rights. 2513 03:39:31,760 --> 03:39:35,760 It's been clearly documented that she is married, she's not forty years old, 2514 03:39:35,040 --> 03:39:39,200 she's not a nun. And then the role that they're having her performed 2515 03:39:39,879 --> 03:39:46,239 makes absolutely no sense because you literally have male deacons who do those roles, 2516 03:39:46,280 --> 03:39:50,200 have always historically done those those roles, and women have never done them. 2517 03:39:50,520 --> 03:39:54,840 So I think, you know, Father Turbo's point when he and I were 2518 03:39:56,639 --> 03:39:58,760 corresponding about this private lea which I don't think you would mind be saying, 2519 03:39:58,840 --> 03:40:03,239 is he's like, look, one of the reasons that they're doing this in 2520 03:40:03,319 --> 03:40:07,440 Africa is that that you can you can you know, basically, anybody who 2521 03:40:07,479 --> 03:40:11,159 disagrees with it or points out that there's some error is going to be called 2522 03:40:11,200 --> 03:40:15,680 a racist, Yeah, exactly, that's part of the agenda in doing it 2523 03:40:15,840 --> 03:40:20,040 there. That's it's a way kind of from prying guys. And I can't 2524 03:40:20,040 --> 03:40:26,319 remember that woman's name, the Schwartz lady, who's that quote unquote orthodox woman. 2525 03:40:26,719 --> 03:40:30,559 And she put a she put a thing on Twitter about please note anybody 2526 03:40:30,680 --> 03:40:39,159 making uh condemnation remarks regarding this because it's misogynistic and racist. It's like, 2527 03:40:39,319 --> 03:40:45,440 this is a classic liberal move So sure, absolutely, and I think everybody 2528 03:40:45,520 --> 03:40:50,319 knows that none of this is being suddenly pushed out of any legitimate desire to 2529 03:40:50,559 --> 03:40:54,559 restore ancient traditions. These people don't care about traditions. They're all pushing every 2530 03:40:54,680 --> 03:40:58,120 form of degeneracy. It's all about changing the church. And we've covered this 2531 03:40:58,280 --> 03:41:03,079 with Father John Whiteford and with Father Deacon Patrick Mitchell, who has an entire 2532 03:41:03,159 --> 03:41:11,600 book refuting this. There's the interview. You can go watch that Skitzo. 2533 03:41:13,000 --> 03:41:28,520 It's got to be good if his name is Skitzo. Skitzo. Guys, 2534 03:41:28,600 --> 03:41:33,040 remember, we will also be live June twenty second, and our live event. 2535 03:41:33,079 --> 03:41:35,360 It's gonna be a lot of fun. However, I do have some 2536 03:41:35,440 --> 03:41:41,079 bad news. Jamie Kennedy will now be able to attend, so we will 2537 03:41:41,079 --> 03:41:43,559 still be having the event. It's gonna be a lot of fun, all 2538 03:41:43,639 --> 03:41:46,760 the same stuff, but Jamie won't be able to be there if something has 2539 03:41:46,840 --> 03:41:52,239 come up. We are going to try to plan another future event with Jamie, 2540 03:41:52,319 --> 03:41:56,120 but this event will be me, Jim, Bob, Isaac, Jamie, 2541 03:41:56,200 --> 03:42:01,479 my wife, and myself, Me and myself, myself and not We 2542 03:42:01,559 --> 03:42:05,040 will all be there, all of my altars in my head will be there. 2543 03:42:05,520 --> 03:42:07,600 And it's still gonna be a lot of fun. So get your tickets 2544 03:42:07,680 --> 03:42:13,639 right here, June twenty second, in Las Vegas. It's gonna be fun, 2545 03:42:13,879 --> 03:42:20,319 so we can still do it even minus Jamie Kennedy. But I did 2546 03:42:20,399 --> 03:42:22,639 want to let you guys know that. So alright, he dropped off. 2547 03:42:22,680 --> 03:42:26,159 Well, I don't let's see, I don't see anything else, Sam, 2548 03:42:26,360 --> 03:42:31,360 last guy, We'll give you one one, last one, last person. 2549 03:42:35,959 --> 03:42:46,360 What's up? Man? All right? So that was nothing. Let me 2550 03:42:46,479 --> 03:43:01,079 hear everybody. People pop in here when I'm about to stop. M No, 2551 03:43:01,280 --> 03:43:03,879 I think we're gonna we're gonna call it a night. There, guys, 2552 03:43:03,959 --> 03:43:05,799 remember head on over to chalk dot com use promo code J fifty to 2553 03:43:05,879 --> 03:43:11,159 get fifty percent off all those amazing Chalk products, especially the Tong Catlee which 2554 03:43:11,159 --> 03:43:16,559 has proven to boost test osterone in those amazing studies which are a peer review. 2555 03:43:16,600 --> 03:43:20,000 You can go read those over there at Chalk dot com. This is 2556 03:43:20,079 --> 03:43:22,840 the link. Now, remember, guys, the promo code has changed. 2557 03:43:22,879 --> 03:43:26,280 Now you can still get great discounts almost fifty percent off. It's forty four 2558 03:43:26,360 --> 03:43:31,879 percent now, but you're gonna be getting the forty four percent off of the 2559 03:43:31,000 --> 03:43:35,360 recurring subscriptions. So the new promo code is JA forty four Life. That's 2560 03:43:35,440 --> 03:43:41,920 Jay forty four l I f E forty four percent off of this amazing male 2561 03:43:43,040 --> 03:43:48,040 vitality stack that includes the pre workout chad Mode, the tong Catalee boosting testosterone, 2562 03:43:48,040 --> 03:43:50,639 the Action two point zero. But it's not just for the dudes. 2563 03:43:50,680 --> 03:43:54,319 There's also female vitality stack over here. You guys can get that as well. 2564 03:43:54,760 --> 03:43:58,360 Use the promo code J forty four Life JA forty four Life right there. 2565 03:44:00,639 --> 03:44:05,760 Otherwise, everybody, I will see you next time. And also we 2566 03:44:05,879 --> 03:44:09,559 had a lot of people who I don't know if my thing was throttled or 2567 03:44:09,799 --> 03:44:13,840 people weren't finding this is a very important thing. So if you didn't watch 2568 03:44:13,959 --> 03:44:22,479 the talk about sexpionage, and I'm guessing that it was too racy in terms 2569 03:44:22,479 --> 03:44:28,440 of topics and the views are a little throttled, or you guys are just 2570 03:44:28,600 --> 03:44:33,399 not learning getting your learn on. This is important stuff. Go watch this 2571 03:44:33,719 --> 03:44:37,520 stream if you missed it. It's time to learn some history, learn how 2572 03:44:37,559 --> 03:44:41,399 the world really works. I think that was an important talk, so go 2573 03:44:41,559 --> 03:44:46,920 watch that and subscribe, and the part two will be up very soon, 2574 03:44:46,360 --> 03:44:50,479 as well as all these big interviews that have happened. Very thankful for the 2575 03:44:50,600 --> 03:45:01,239 last week, so big stuff coming. Big interviews will be dropped helping otherwise. 2576 03:45:01,280 --> 03:45:05,639 Everybody, have a good night. M