What is krack Alac and fellow Thermonuclear afors. I am a Dan Valley coming
at you with my certified fan tabulous also Thermonuclear af co host Grant Hughes.
It is Trade Deadline Primer time. Once you see if you're watching on YouTube,
what's on the screen, or what we're talking about, or what will
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to help us continue grow the community. Grant Hughes, we're diving in to
a trade deadline primer, how are you feeling well? As is not the
case for what we're about to get into. I'm unprepared to give you a
quippy lead because I felt really good about my Jorge and Pool thing last time
we talked, But yeah, I just don't have it today. So but
that's testament to how much prep and work we've been putting in. There's just
there just was no time for that for that kind of nonsense. This is
gonna be a real detail oriented excursion into the trade deadline. With all that
said, let's start with the Pacific Division and we're gonna change things up,
so we'll alternate on who leads us through it, but we're gonna go in
order of decreasing winning percentage, which I don't know who saw this coming.
Who's you're starting is off in the Pacific Division and that's with who. Yeah,
it's a Sacramento Kings. Can we just pause for a second and appreciate
that, like that's it's it's amazing. Unless you picked their under which I
suspect we probably both did, we're gonna have to match the over on them.
What was it like thirty three? It was like thirty three or thirty
five, and I thought that was went over. I can go check really
quick while you're vamping, and I'll like, you know, you know,
there'll be a whole pod. Don't waste the content. Dam we'll do that
later, all right. So, uh, the idea here is we're gonna
kind of look at, you know, what's the big question or what's the
overarching idea for each of these teams. And to me, the Kings look
there, they're in playoff position, they're you know, up towards the top
of the West. They're right there with anybody not named Memphis in Denver.
So it's obviously a win now by situation however you going frame it. But
to me, it's just how do we how can they get the defense to
improve, because you know, this is what we thought this team would be
in a best case scenario is where the offense is phenomenal, you know,
top three, top five for almost this entire year, and the defense is
basically the inverse of that. And so you know they're not going to be
able to match up against some of the teams that they're going to need to
beat or compete with in a playoff series if they just don't have enough wing
defense, particularly rim protection, all that stuff. So those are your targets,
those are the things they'd be looking for. I guess we're going to
try to keep this kind of loose, but just thinking about them now,
you know Sabonus is their interior defender. He's actually been better than you would
expect, and based on history at you know, deterring shots at the rim,
they still give up a ton at the rim. But they also don't
really have a big wing defender. Which of those two things do you think,
you know, all things being equal, what are you looking at as
the bigger need? Positionally, if we can see that it has to be
a defensive upgrade, I would go with the wing defender, just because are
you going to place the bonus with another rim protector? And if you're not,
you're not gonna. I don't care as much about the minutes. Whence
the bonus isn't on the court. Quite frankly, yeah, I agree,
I think too, Like we'll get into this a lot with other teams,
but if if your need is quote unquote like a change of pace at like
backup center, for example, I mean that's just in terms of the volume
and in terms of like the impact of that player's contributions. You're talking just
like a few minutes you know, every night. It's just not it's just
not that big a deal. Whereas a wing, you know, a rotation
guy or a starter even just gonna be on the floor and every minute that
matters, right, If you're a playoff bound team like the Kings, then
that's what you're focused on. So so i'd agree there. I think if
you're looking at what they have to get something done, you know, so
they owe this twenty four first rounder to Atlanta from the Kevin Herder deal.
I don't need to laugh at because that trade worked out well for them.
But these like pick protections that teams are doing right now, I don't know
why. I think it's probably smart of the teams that are acquiring them to
have them protected until the end of time. But I was going when I
was when we were putting together these sheets for this podcast, and I'll do
a better job when we do the other divisions of talking about the criteria.
And if you're watching on YouTube, you do have what Grant and I are
using. It's just like we're not going through all of it. Grant kind
of said that this is going to be more of a loose discussion. I
will have a trade idea, or we will have a trade idea for every
team. That is, if I'm the team making the call, like I'm
the Kings and I'm gonna be calling and offering this trade. So but you
can look on YouTube and you could see all their salaries pick commitments if you're
into that sort of thing. I apologize not mentioning it at the top and
for interjecting Grant here, but I'm just when we were going through and building
this commitments. Well, I'm not even talking about the teams that I've given
up a multiple first time picks, but it's just like Detroit have it,
or Portland having the lottery protected pick to stay in the Western Conference just through
two twenty eight. It's just it's so limiting in what they can do now.
So I apologize, but that's sort of where the Kings are at right
now. It is, And like there are situations, Portland I think being
one of them, where it's like, well, job number one and your
or you know, item one on your trade deadline priority list is, let's
see if I can swing a deal to like adjust the protections on this pick
so we can actually move another one or you know, which is just kind
of an I can't remember the Heat did it last year, but before that,
I really can't remember a significant example of where a team had to do
that. And now there's several situations where because of all these like you know,
carryover protections and encumbrances that just don't go away necessarily and it just ruins
it compromises your whole draft for for years on end. So the Kings have
those pick issues. If you're looking on YouTube, they so this twenty four.
First it's lottery protected, and then top twelve and then top ten,
and it turns into seconds in twenty six and twenty seven. If not conveyed,
that just kind of ties them up. Fortunately, the Kings do have
some expiring slash unwanted salaries they can move. I know you've listed here as
Rashaun Holmes is the most likely player to be traded. What a turnaround,
by the way, because I'm sure that we both liked his contract when he
signed it. I called it. I said his agent should get fired because
I thought it deal right, Yeah, good, good for the king.
From the King's perspective, it seemed like a bargain. But there was some
off court stuff last year, and it's just you know, they have some
bonus now and he's just at best a second guy and has not really even
been the backup center for most of this year, So you can throw him
in there. You can throw Terrence Davis in there. Harrison Barnes is someone
we've talked about in previous deadlines, but he's got eighteen plus million expiring,
but that I can't imagine he's going anywhere because right now he's probably the closest
thing they have to like a three D combo forward. Keegan Murray can shoot
it, but you know you're probably not trading him even if you are in
a win now situation. So there's ways to get salary. There's ways if
you're creative enough to get pick equity, but I mean target wise, like
I just you know they're gonna be after the same list of like three to
five guys will go through for every Wings forward starved team, So you're Bogdanovitch
is your crowders, your Jailen McDaniels, like, like that kind of thing
makes the most sense for me. They'll just be a lot of competition for
those guys and anybody else even remotely similar. Yeah, and it's there because
of the pick that we're talking about in twenty twenty four going to Atlanta,
and it's protected. There's in comparison, isn't so long as others. It's
only protected through two thousand and twenty six. But like that means you can't
guarantee a first until twenty twenty eight, and as soon as you can give
up a first is two and twenty six, And so that takes you out
of the running of a lot of high profile guys you almost need the second
to work out? Would you agree that? Even though based off his contract,
I think a lot of people think it's bad now that Rashaun Holmes is
the most likely player to be dealt. I mean just because of the number
eleven point two this year, twelve point nine player option next year, which
he will a million percent pick up. Because his stock has dropped so far,
I just don't think he's going to get that back on if he were
to go into free agency this summer. I just can't imagine he would approach,
Like is he even a mid level guy. He's probably a taxpairmid level
guy maybe so, I guess so. I just there. They're good players
right now. You know the types of guys you would think about moving.
Barnes is one You're not You're not moving herder. Trey Lyles actually plays for
them, and he'sn't expiring it like two good too, right and two and
a half million bucks. That's just not going to get you what you need.
Davion Mitchell. Maybe I don't know what the value of like a one
position defense for slash defense only point guard is, but rookie scale deal you
could see someone be interested in him, but he plays two, so you
know, it's it's not like they have other than Holmes. It's not like
they have significant salary just kind of sitting there to move because Alex Lynn is
in that group too, But what does he make, like just under four
I think, so that's that's tough to get there. So it's got to
be Homes probably. I don't know who else would be. Yeah, And
also if we're talking about them needing defense, you go Terrence Davis maybe expiring.
If we're talking about them needing defense, you can't really give up davy
On Mitchell. So the trade that I came up with for them, and
will scroll down here for people want to see it on the screen, I
have the Kings receive Jay Crowder and the Suns receive Rashawn Holmes a twenty twenty
four second round pick and Portland's twenty twenty five second round pick and cash to
offset because they are taking out on money and that would increase their tax bill,
and the Kings have I think all their cash left so they could offset
that. So you get Sacramentals twenty twenty four second, Portland's twenty twenty five
second, and you off set the tax difference for Rashaun Holmes. I mean,
I love that from the King's perspective. If I'm if I'm the Sons
and we'll get to them eventually here, I think I think I'm gonna at
least try to get even if it's like a fake first rounder. I think
I want a first rounder somehow for Crowder, and that might just be totally
unrealistic. But yeah, if I'm the if I'm the Kings, I'm take
my money. I'm doing this immediately. The other thing I'd kind of thought
of with them was like, could you get if you're gonna help Philly duct
the Tacks, would you take on cork Mas, get Matis Cybal and then
you send out Terrence Davis is expiring, And would you be willing to give
up met To in that deal? Or even like, would the Sixers take
anybody in that scenario? I think, like, you know, would they
take back because you need them the duct attacks. You don't want to give
up Trey Lyles. You could give up PJ. Doger, you could give
up Matthew Delavadova. I don't think they'd want to give up kasy Akpola,
But would you do something like that? To get Matis Cybele, whereas you're
taking on some money this year, but you have just a ton of room
under the tax and so like, let's let's just say it's yeah, unless
you think that you know, met Too is someone who has played for them,
but he's averaging under ten minutes of game in the month of January.
So would you do met To and Terrence Davis just to get Matis Sybell?
And then it's I mean, like the Kings like shooting and in theory,
that's what cork Mos could provide. Yeah, And I think I think the
upside or the situational viability of someone like Tybell, even though his stock is
down certainly from you know, a couple of years ago, when it seemed
like he was like a he was going to be a perfect role player if
he could, you know, shoot league average from three on decent volume.
I would probably go for that if I were the Kings, just because like
Davis actually has some value, but I think it's a little bit he's a
little superfluous with like you have Monk to run second units and be kind of
the spark plug guy. He's a different player, you know. Davis is
the type that he's sort of Josh hardy and like his board crashing and that
kind of thing, although he's smaller. But I think Tyble for sure would
possibly if if if it all worked out, would bring something that this this
roster absolutely doesn't have, which is a guy that just you know, causes
havoc is deflections, blocks, steals, and then you're triggering if that goes
well, you're triggering a transition attack that's already really really dangerous. So that,
like the fit there, makes a ton of sense. You like that
deal better than the Crowder one for them? Or do you like the Crowder
one better? I mean I think I probably, I probably, Well that's
a good question. I think I like the second one better now that I
have to think about them and you know, compared to one another, just
because Crowder, Like how much different is Crowder than Harrison Barnes. Really,
I think Tibo can do like point of attack stuff or like more truer wings
or Crowder is like sort of a bigger, burlier defender, right and maybe
at the stage of his career where he's just he's not that much, he's
not that great of a defender to where he's not he's even helping you if
he's not making like thirty eight percent of his threes, which you know that's
gone up and down too. And you can play table with Barnes and Kei
and Murray, you can't really do the same with Crowder. I will say
you could play Crowder with Davion Mitchell. You can't play Table and Mitchell together.
I wouldn't think, no, that would not. I don't know where
you're getting your shooting in your offense from there. I guess if you well,
if you have Fox and Sabonus, you could make a lot of things
work. But where that be congested around those two if you didn't, that's
that's what works with the Kings as they put shooters around those two guys,
and just you know, the offense homes if you don't have if you have
two guys out there that aren't going to really be honored, you know,
off the ball, that makes it tough. Let's get to the Los Angeles
Clippers here, and so they're inherently just and look, they're within striking distance
of getting to the forward seat in the the Western Conference at this point,
and they are inherently buyers. And we can go through like kind of figuring
out who's their most likely player to be traded gets like a little bit difficult.
But my biggest question for them kind of looking into the trade deadline is
are they going to include a first round pick to get better? They can
trade twenty twenty eight or twenty twenty nine, And if they don't trade at
first, what's the best they could do. They don't have like any I
guess really they don't have any notable inbound other picks like second rounders anymore.
You have the nine point seven million dollars trade exception, and so are you
willing to just use that on the you know, in the trade idea that
I didn't propose because I feel like it's just the obvious one would be,
can you throw the Knicks a second and then they just put Isaiah Hartenstein into
your traded player exception? And if you're are they trying to do you a
solid, like if you're willing to send them back an expiring contract, you
could work it that way, just because Hartensign does have time left on his
deal and Nicks do not use him properly quite frankly, like he's not a
rim runner, and that's what they've decided that they're going to use him,
Like, so there's that type of a deal, or you want to take
on that type of money if you're not sending out a player who's making like
like real money at that point, it's different if you're sending back like,
oh, yeah, the Knicks will take Reggie Jackson in that scenario, or
even a John Wall. But if they're not, that is a pretty big
tax commitment. I would default towards Steve Bomber not really given a shit.
But so that's really just what I'm looking at. And then what are they
going to prioritize if they are making the upgrade? Is it going to be
I think they could probably use some wing diversification at this point, which feels
really weird to say. With Kawhi Leonard and Paul George there, Terrence Man
maybe hopes that helps that a little bit. I do think people have said
that the need for a floor general or point guard is overrated. I really
don't think it is. If you're saying it needs to be like a cap
slock point guard or conventional point guard, and I'm not a fan of that
phrasing. I just feel like they need more of a floor general element that's
an easier fit to play off of their primary scores and playmakers in Kawai and
Paul George. And that's just not Reggie Jacksons played a little bit better lately,
but it's not John Wall that's clear. And then you have depth that
you need behind Zoobo. My whole thing is like, you're not giving up
if it meant getting Miles Turner, Okay, Like you're not going to give
up your best, your trade asset, that first round pick, or even
Terrence Man to get someone to play behind Zoobots. That just doesn't make any
sense to me. I saw a lot of like, oh, Terrence Man
for Naz Reid work straight up and if I'm the Timberwolves, yeah I do
that in a heartbeat, But I can't do that if I'm the Clippers.
Like there needs to be if it's part of like a Diangel Russell trade,
maybe you could look at something like that. So what do they prioritize more?
I think it's easier to get depth at the five because you could address
that on the buyout market. But I also think when we're looking at trade
specifically, it's probably more likely that you can take a big into that trade
exception, hold your first round pick and just think like, Okay, well
the crux of this core, if it's healthy enough, is going to contend
and be a threat in the playoffs. I will, however, say I'm
not necessarily confident in That's where I look at this roster and think they need
to address two of what I just mentioned, where it's either diversify the wing
rotation, improve sort of the floor general or playmaking aspect independent of Kauai and
Paul George, or get big man depth. And I think that the big
man depth is probably like I would just address it because it's easier, and
it's probably more of a glaring void at this point than anything else, even
though I don't think it's the one that's holding them back the most. But
I think for them to actualize their top end outcome, they need to address
two of these needs. Yeah, I think I'm not sure. I'm with
you all the way on the need for a point guard, you know,
conventional or whatever whatever however you want to phrase it being overstated just because if
you look through the rest of the roster, it's like, well, what
what, what's the problem. Then you know, like like they've got a
million wings. They've got, you know, a conventional center in Zubots who's
good at his job but has all of the limitations that come with his player
type, and they have small ball five options. So I just almost by
default, like I agree, I don't think it. You don't need like
two thousand and eight Chris Paul or whatever like to make this work. I
mean the bar is low because John Wall started hot and then was really terrible,
just like not getting guarded. Reggie Jackson's been really bad. So like,
you know, it doesn't even like what if it's I doubt that.
It doesn't sound like the Pistons are going to trade him. But one of
the people I thought of was Alec Burke's, like he's not even a point
guard, but he is someone that is asked to create a lot. He's
asked to sort of function in that role, and he's you know, certainly
not on the level of, oh my god, this guy's gonna run our
offense for thirty six minutes a night and it's gonna be great. But you
know, that type of player maybe is like your lower end fix. There
are other expensive, more expensive or or you know, more conventional. Again
with that word options we'll get to, I think, but I still just
focus on that point guard spot, even if it may be the case that
like whoever they get just actually close games and the playoffs, because you're just
gonna go with George and Kawhi and then two other wings or slash forwards and
like it's Kennard or it's Terrence Mann or whatever technically playing point guard. I
think. I think it's they're a tricky team because there is a need,
I think, But then like if is the guy they get to fill that
need gonna actually matter, you know, outside of as a depth piece.
You know, when we play real serious games that the Clippers anticipate being in.
So the trade idea I have for them is the Clippers get this would
address your need. Mike Conley and the Jazz get Robert Covington, Reggie Jackson
and a twenty twenty four a second round pick. I mean, I feel
like that's the first thing you bump on is the cost, because Conley's I
think fourteen million of his twenty four ish is guaranteed for next year, but
the Clippers don't care, So I mean a million more than Roco too.
Yeah, basically it's fine. I think I keep saying this, and maybe
it's just gonna make me sound stupid in the aftermath. But if I'm the
Jazz, I really want I like the optics of getting a first of some
kind, and I just Conmley may not be worth that. But I think
I do this. I think this makes sense, right. I do think
Conley might have a few other suitors too that the Clippers might have to beat
offers for. But but yeah, this makes a lot of sense. And
from the Jazz's perspective, like, you know, I don't know how much
they care about the pick or Jackson, but Covington in theory, is someone
that has had his value like go way up and down, which is weird
for his role, and maybe he's someone that they flip again or just you
know, take the text the capitalief or whatever. I think that makes a
lot of sense. Yeah, I mean that's I don't really have it.
Do you expect them, I guess just to wrap up on them. If
you had to predict, are they going to trade a first round pick at
the deadline twenty eight or twenty nine? I would say no. But I
do think it's fairly likely that someone like like Morris or you know, even
between or like even Coffee or Boston, like those kind of guys might be
on the move. I don't think they're gonna trade a pick just because I'm
not sure that they see a piece out there that warrants it. Although I
just said maybe Conley should be worth a first but yeah, I don't think
so. It doesn't feel like it's to me, what do you see that
happening. No, I don't think they're going to just because if the market
was different, or maybe, like I said, if if the Hawks decide
like they're gonna make Bogda Magdanovich available and you can get Jail and Johnson as
part of that deal, or maybe even on Yeka Kungu. I just don't
see the Hawks are playing better, so that sort of feels out of the
question. I think that I don't want to say the ceiling, but like
I don't know if you would do the trade that I mentioned before, but
like if you're the Knicks just to sort of get out of I don't think
Hartenstein's deal is terrible, but like he's on the books for next year.
If you could send Hartenstein and their their TPE and you get back, I
mean maybe would they even give you a mere coffee at this point even and
just like, would you do something like that get a you know, a
twenty twenty four second round pick, Friza Hartenstein basically would you? I think
I would do that for both sides. I'm not sure if the Clippers would
like to get rid of a player in that instance, and my guests would
even though he's had none even a year. Wouldn't be coffee they want to
get rid of. But like John Wall, team options like you could just
take him on and he comes off the books or whatever, but that would
be I think that's the type of move they make. I just didn't want
to propose it because it held obvious. Yeah no, I mean yeah,
I think I think they had. Isn't the feeling that the Clippers will do
do something because they're so all in that they never like, there's no there's
no scenario where they just say we're good with this, because it's that's just
never true for them. Yeah. All right. So I've got the Warriors
next, and so I feel like they've been so discussed that there's really not
a lot of mystery here. I mean, everything is related to the two
timelines and the two sort of different crops of players. They have the veterans
and the young guys, and so you could you could kind of frame it
however you want. But the Warriors, like a million other teams in the
West, are like a couple of games from the bottom of the plan and
then a couple of games from being fourth in the conference. It's just a
hot week here there, and they could be there. They've been super inconsistent.
So someone who has not contributed at all as James Wiseman, and so
I think the real question for them is it is it worth it? It's
not is it time, because I think it's it's probably time, But is
it worth it to trade James Wiseman now? And so the factors you have
to consider are where are we relative to what his lowest value versus highest value
is going to be? How much does that matter in the calculus of this
season, because it may be the case that what you get for him now
isn't going to help. And so now you've just traded this guy with a
whatever tiny percent chance of becoming an All Star years from now for what was
ultimately not enough help. Right Like that would suck, That would be a
bad look you also have this issue of like, do we just hold on
to him because his value theoretically can't get much lower than this, And we
do think this is speaking as the Warriors, We do think, you know,
there's a great chance that three four years from now he is a really
good starting center. The problem is that doesn't matter at all now because who
knows what this team will look like a few years from now, It probably
won't be competing for titles. So the reason Wiseman's the focal point is because
they just don't have anybody else that they would realistically trade that has a big
enough salary number to get somebody back. Whoill matter. Wiseman's at nine point
six million this year, Moses Moody's at three point seven. You're just not
going to trade Steph Clay Draymond Wiggins, Pool Pool's poison pilled anyway. If
that weren't the case, that would be interesting because then I think he would
be on the table and pretty movable. But so that's just what it is
like it is now. Is it worth it to trade James Wiseman? Now?
Is the timing right? And is there a piece out there that will
justify what would be a pretty big admission of like we kind of blew it
with this pick. I'm just curious to whether like they're even have the impetus
to do that. Do you think that they're at full strength any looking at
what you think you could realistically get for James Wiseman, do you even think
like you're a James Wiseman trade away from being a And the deal that I
mentioned that I'm not going to propose here is just like, if you can
trade James Wiseman for and Moses Moody for Cody Martin, Jalen McDaniel's and PJ.
Washington, do you want to do it? And too? Do you
think that makes you like a serious contender? Yeah, I don't know.
I think that's the problem is, like you have to really it's unclear.
I don't think it's definitely not. Oh my god, we got PJ.
Washington now and to a lesser extent, Cody Martin. Like we're good.
We've got that. Our nine man rotation is complete. This is a title.
The other thing is there's still a reasonable chance that if the war this
was my position last year, if the Warriors don't do anything, they might
just have you know, they might just need to come together and hit you
know, everybody play well at the same time, and they might win anyway,
might win it anyway. Like there wasn't a trade last year. I
thought that would put them over the top. And I didn't think they should
trade the young guys last year. I'm much more inclined to say that now.
But the package you're saying is, like, I mean, I guess
that improves that definitely improves them. Is it to a great enough degree above
what they might be able to get to just with guys on the roster now
playing better? And is that difference enough to justify giving away a lottery ticket?
Like I don't know, I don't know, It's tough. Like what
I would say is if there's books, if Bowie on Bogdanovitch, who was
just sort of like I guess, the best reasonably available, best fitting player,
if he were available, and you could give up Wiseman and Moody,
and you know, whatever does that do it? Does that? Is he
that much better than auto Porter from last year? Like, I mean,
he's a better player, But the Warriors won't use Bogdanovich for you know,
seventeen shots of game, Like that's just the difference would be less significant than
you might think. I don't know. I'm just I'm just talking now because
I think this is one of the most complicated, high stakes situations in the
league where easy answers just you know, escape me. I don't know,
Uh yeah, I don't think they're gonna do anything. And I'm even curious
as to what what do you view is there? And I know you've touched
on a little bit, like if you had just boiled down like the one
thing player type that they need, like what is it? I think too
much has almost been made about the big man rotation, just because I think
in the playoffs Kavan Looney is fine and you can go to Draymond at the
five and you're gonna downsize anyway. And so I've I've just been interested,
Like I saw a lot of Warriors fans like all of a sudden intrigued by
Mason Plumbley. I couldn't tell if they were trolling or something. But I
just don't think that that's a not even in it. First of all,
it has to be jays wise. He's your only salary really to move,
which is just so difficult. It's also probably your toughest because he makes over
twelve million next year. You need a team that wants to take a flyer.
Yeah, that's not a cheap I think. I think. Yeah,
and you mentioned plumbly like the whole Yaka Purdle brief dalliance made no sense to
me, even less sense really just because like, so you're just not going
to play like Looney or Draymond. Playing less does not seem like the solution
to what's wrong with the Warriors. So and then you're got Purdle that you'd
have to theoretically pay a twenty million a year to keep, which is like
a non starter for me. So what they need, I think, is
just who's well. What they need is like the healthy version of thirty two
year old Andrea Goodala, or even like the what Porter did last year.
They need a forward who knows how to play, can move the ball,
will hit spot up shots. It's not like a big role, but it's
it's something they don't have that you know they're asking. You know, Anthony
Lamb is one of the biggest two way contract success stories of the season,
but he's he's not someone I think they believe into the degree they did Porter
certainly not a goodala. They need that type. They need a forward,
a three four guy that can shoot, that can defend, that understands how
to play in the system. And it's just like, okay, that's that's
like four guys in the whole league. So I don't know if if the
trade market is is how they get there. I do have a trade that
I think is somewhat nuclear, and the only reason I thought of it is
because you gave you gave me time to extra time before the podcast to actually
workshop it. And the framework is complicated, but I'll give you before getting
in the details, if you were to give up James Wiseman and Jordan Pool
four or can you even are you even like mentally prepared for what's what's about
to happen right now? Well? How what? What? What is Pool's
salary going to account for? Because it doesn't it doesn't matter because I've made
it work financially, So like what level of player do I need to get
back? I'm just like, do you even see where this is going?
Like? I have no idea? Jordan Pool, James Wiseman for Kelton Johnson,
oh Man, God, I wish that's such a good trade I think
I don't think Keldon Johnson is quite the like basketball IQ type a veteran the
Warriors would need, would ideally want, but got his contracts good, and
he's young and he plays really hard and he's a twenty point scorer on a
bad team. Oh that's really tough. I mean, it takes Wiseman out
of it. If, like, just if it were Pool for Keldon Johnson,
straight up, I think I would hesitate. I like, I like
that. How did you do that? How do you make it work?
Because the Spurs have twenty six minuting cast space, But it's still complicated because
just there's the discrepancy in what the teams are, you know, worth going
at what they're Jordan Pools worth to the Warriors going out versus coming in that
the Spurs cat space actually isn't enough. And so I ended up going Kelton
Johnson to the Warriors, James Johnson, Jordan Pool, James Wiseman and two
second round picks to the Spurs, and then Zach Collins and Isaiah Roby to
the Indiana Pacers. Okay, oh you brought in the rouped in the other
cap space team. I actually don't even think you need to do the James
Johnson like Roby thing. They don't even know why why I included that to
be honest with you, So like I think you could just get it done
with, you know, to forget that element of it. But like Za,
you'd be giving up Zach Collins was played really well. I thought about
with the Pacers, give you the less favorable of Boston's or Cleveland's first round
pick to get Zach Collins, who has another year left on his deal,
is just again, He's you talk about someone who could play with or without
Miles Turner. I don't think it would be unreasonable for them. Yeah,
I think along just in a vacuum. Do you think do you value Jordan
Pool on his contract or Kelton Johnson has hit on his as the better asset.
Oh, it's Kelton Johnson by fucking far, just because of the money,
or because Pool again a harp on this, or we could just talk
about how Calvin Johnson's the better player. But that's what I mean, Like,
I think that's probably true this year, But then Pool plays the role
that's harder to fill, like the shot creator role. I don't know.
I honestly I ask because I don't know that's a tough that's a close.
Yeah, Like punting on that without getting a shot creator back was difficult.
And again, is Jordan Pool like a better trade asset when his money actually
kicks in? But I would I don't know if I'm gonna list that when
I actually do the like the Bleacher Report project though, because the only other
like sort of James Wiseman thing I thought of is just like if you could
give up James Wiseman and you're figuring out a way to get back Zach Collins
and Josh Richardson, Like, does that move the needle for you? Yeah?
I think I think that Richardson's close to the type of player I think
they're looking for. Is a little smaller than you'd want, but yeah,
you could imagine him in a closing lineup potentially if Pool just can't artist guy
or if you know, there's there's a lot of there's a lot of possibilities
there, but you you ultimately wouldn't do the Pool for Keldon Johnson one man,
so Pools another guy that I feel like they'd be trading at a kind
of a low point. But it's possible that Pool just as someone that is
not going to be on this team for a long time, him or Draymond
potentially. I think it's like would The other thing is Keldon Johnson having him
knowing Draymond could leave in free agency. Is not that not nearly the same
level defensive player, but as someone who could feel like the I know he's
an undersize for and so you're not gonna get the five minutes out of him,
but just the idea of having his downhill assaults I he intrigues me more.
I get the shock creation concerns though, of giving up Jordan Pool and
such a deal, not getting someone to feel that, yeah, it's close.
Asked me to ask me tomorrow, I'd say I'd say I probably would
do it today. Asked me tomorrow, and I might change my mind.
It was at least like a thinker, right, I bet you aren't expecting
that was. But don't give me fifteen extra minutes? Is the moral of
this? Yeah, or else I get put to difficult decisions that make me
anxious. Let's move on to the next team in Pacific Division, which is
the Phoenix Suns. They're having you know, it's been I mean, they've
seen they've seen better years. So their buyers I think by default when you're
sort of looking at them, But their value of their twenty twenty three D
pick has increased as well. I also the things I'm watching for. Yeah,
we know they're gonna move Jay Crowder because it would be fucking stupid not
to. And if they don't, we need to have a conversation about why
it wasn't done over the off season. But if if they don't, like
that would just be male practice. Does the you know, it was reported
by WoDES that the sale is going to be finalized before the trade deadline,
so I guess you can make last minute decisions, But does that like what
else goes into that? Is it going to hold up their business at the
trade deadline at all? And two like they've just been notoriously hesitant to make
major moves under James Jones. I know they traded for Chris Paul that was
a duh trade. So just like in terms of being too risk averse,
I would argue that's where they've ended up with James Johnson, with James Jones
or excuse me. And I'm curious as to whether, like would they be
willing to make I don't want to even call it a blockbuster move, but
a risky move to where are you going to give up a first round pick?
Are you willing to even move DeAndre? And who's trade eligible? I
have so many questions about them, and they've been linked to like some not
flash, but they've been linked to Fred van Fleet as an example, and
that's something I actually really like for them, But like, would you do
you have the guts to go in with an eighton package or a picks package
that's going to bring you back Fred van Fleet? And they do not seem
like the franchise that would be, you know, willing to do that.
So those are my questions. And I think they need shot creation. They
could you use even like the player at everyone thought Landry Sham it was going
to be four or five years ago would be good for them. And then
just like they need more kind of like that four bigger like Jay Crowder,
but like maybe an upgrade over Jay Crowder where for this team someone in addition
to Cam Johnson obviously, So they have needs, it's just are they gonna
go about like trying to fill them? Like do you see this team being?
And I think what's also complicated them is we're past the point of,
Okay, maybe an Eric Gordon trade solves this, because I don't think that
that's you could trade for Eric Gordon and that would be the safe mood.
I don't think it costs you a first round pick anymore, but like,
what is that? What are we doing there at that point? It's kind
of this stop gap, cute little stop gap. So I would still make
the move. It's not cost me a first round pick, and I'm just
giving them salary and seconds. However, it feels like they need a move
now on a larger scale of that, and that's with we know Devin Booker
will come back. Cam Johnson's already back. Chris Paul has been playing better.
I don't think people have talked they has written him off, which is
fine, like he's getting older, but he's been I think even the decline
was sort of overstated. He gets targeted on defense more. His offense has
not been like this abomination. But I will say kind of knowing the limitations
to mcal Bridges is you know, second and third layers of his offensive game
and just how flat out to put a kindly enigmatic DeAndre Aton has been this
season. It feels like they need more than a Oh they got Eric Gordon
and kJ Martin from the from the Rockets. Yeah, I think I might
be a little more inclined to put the picks in play if I were them,
And I wonder if just to throw a name out there, like they
have the expiring salary or pretty close to it between Crowder and Sarich, and
maybe they got to do a little bit more. I haven't run this through
the trade machine, but they're close to just like to the would the Hawks
take those guys? And however many picks you need for John Collins, Like
and again we've talked every week about how John Collins value is, like nobody
knows what it is, but like, if you're gonna bring the picks into
play, then I think suddenly just whatever name is a top the available player's
list becomes reasonable, you know, reasonable just because the Sons have movable come
off the book's salary, that they can get to a good enough number to
where you're just not really trading for those players. You're just you want that
that cap relief. Maybe they'll be okay for you, Like a team like
the Hawks could actually use Jay Crowder, but something like that feels plausible to
me just because you are you know, I think you gotta at least see
what you can do with this roster this season, and then later on you
can decide what to do with eight, and you can decide, you know,
what to do I guess with Chris Paul. But like adding a big
piece and putting those picks on the table, I think is is a possibility
that uh, you know, is probably not getting enough attention. I don't
know, so yeah, that that that would be what I would be looking
for, just because to double all the way back, like the Jay Crowder
thing is such an impossible situation because they just need a guy like Jay Crowder
from a team that presumably has one that would also want Jay Crowder. So
why are you giving up your Jay Crowder facts simile for another one when the
real deal has like quit on his team and been away for like it just
it's an impossible situation to get like value just for Crowder. So I think
you have to throw the picks in. You have to combine a salary if
you really want like a value add acquisition. It's I guess what's tough is
because it doesn't seem like that. If Pascal Siakam became available. Okay,
well that makes a kind of sense for them to do, but like that
level of player doesn't even seem available. Maybe Fred van Vleet is the closest
that we come. I think that they should be even more aggressive. It's
like, oh, Gary Trent Jr. Someone who's going to be a free
agent, smaller than maybe you want, but like you could definitely play him
with You can run Chris Paul mcaial Bridges and Devin Booker with Gary Trent Junior
and then have Aden at the five if you wanted to go that route,
like you could play that. So I think they need to be even more
aggressive and searching for those types of moves where it's okay, this player is
going to make more of an impact of Eric Gordon, but no, he's
not a star. And yes I'm putting my pick on the table. You
probably protect it more than you would if it's four star. Clearly, especially
given what feels like higher variants outcomes from them this year. The trade that
I actually have for them, and it's focused on Fred VanVleet. I think
what's tough is we need to know what the raptors would actually want. But
We talked about this trade a little bit. I changed the framework of it
on the last podcast. But the Suns get Chris Bouche, Rashaun Holmes,
Fred van Vleet, the Kings get Jay Crowder. The Raptors received DeAndre Ayton,
Cameron Payne and a twenty twenty four second round pick from Sacramento and then
Portland's twenty twenty five second round pick from Sacramento. My concerns here and Raptors
fans pointed this out on YouTube, was the Raptors are losing just basically like
half of their show or a third of their shock creation going from van Fleet
to Eton. But if the Raptors were actually interested in eating over the summer
and they seem obsessed with having a big man now, or if they're pivoting
into this retool and you're getting rid of van Fleet, like the goal isn't
to get another shot creator, I think what you can argue is, would
they prefer the picks package? And so like the picks package from Phoenix's end
of the spectrum looks something like Dario Sharich Jay Crowder campaign. You throw in
there, and then like how many picks do you need to get that done.
Just let's talk straight up with with Toronto. And so I'm asking you
that, and then would you I guess first this deal, who says no
to it? Like looking at this three team trade because I think what I
just actually though kind of informs if you're the Raptors, are you leaning towards
the And it depends on how you view DeAndre Ayton's contract at this point where
he has three years and one hundred and two million left on it. I
don't think that he's bad value, and I think he would help the Raptors
even next to Siakam, But it does throw your space off. It does
make your half court offense more reliant on Siakam and Scottie Barnes needing to do
things and maybe even are you keeping Gary Trent Junior in this scenario? But
if you like Dayton and you want a big like that's someone who fits more
of the retool, then if you go picks, because you're not going to
replace Red van Fleet in free agency, like you're not all of a sudden
going to have cap space, right, So if you go to the Picks
route, you're kind of saying steering closer to the rebuilding phase or at least
saying, well, we're gonna flip these picks for someone else who elevate our
shock creation. Yeah, so a couple of things. I think if I'm
Toronto, I'm doing this immediately, just because I'm uncomfortable with the possibility of
having to pay Van Fleet if he opts out what it might cost to keep
him. I'm just you know, he was never a high efficiency shooter and
scorer, and he's a small guard, and just the small guard aging curve
is what it is. I think I might want to get out a year
or two soon than too late, And that's why I also kind of I
don't I understand the theory of Van Fleet with Phoenix. I just it's hard
for me to get there. So for those reasons and just the fit I
think just him and Chris Paul together is they're so small. There's I mean,
him and Lowry worked. Lowry is a little bit of a different player.
So I'm doing this if I'm Toronto, and I do want this more
than a pick package, just because aten weird as it is to say,
and wrong as it might turn out to be, given some of the hints
we've had that like he might not be the most into basketball. Like some
of the attitude, work ethics stuff I think has been reported to be dubious.
He could also be mad at the Suns. I feel like the thing
that's I think it's this is a by low opportunity, which is weird to
say for a guy who's got one hundred million left coming, you know,
the next three years. But I like the age that he he fits into,
the age band Seak comes a little older, but he feels that he
just you no longer question what their raptors will do at center. I think
there's a scenario where he does eventually bring enough stretch to really kind of add
some dynamism to that offense and would get on the offensive just like, yeah,
I want DeAndre and if I can get him for van Fleet and you
know, Bouchet is the only other guy in here, and then like I'm
good with that. I'm happy to do that. So do you if you're
Toronto, do you don't even need the picks that you're getting better? You
could send those to Phoenix? No, because I yeah, I'm fine,
because I view van Fleet as an expiring contract that I'm not totally sure I
want back at what it's going to cost to get him. So I'm so
I altered. This is older. I view him is the more valuable playoff
player, but I guess in the context of Phoenix is roster. I get
you're good. So it's a no from Phoenix's end for you if it's yeah,
if I'm in charge of Phoenix, I don't think I'm doing that just
and I like van Fleet. It's weird. I feel like I'm shitting on
him, but I mean I get more Paul van Fleet. That's a lot
committed to the backcourt. I just how long they are also workable deals.
If he wanted to and you were Toronto, you want to go with the
picks route, It's Chris Paul and picks for Fred van Bleeve, like,
that's the structure you could go with. I'm just thinking Chris Paul's gone after
next year, and so you're about one year of going smaller. And the
way that the Suns have been able to just plug in play like Bismack Byambo
or jacque Landale jacque Landale into the five spot and have it work out,
imagine what they're gonna be able to do with Chris Bruche and Rashaw and Holmes,
and so I'm just wondering, like, I get it. I totally
get it. I think I actually like this more for Phoenix than I do
for Toronto though, and I would I would do it if I'm Sacramento,
if anyone cares, yea Sacramento on board here. Oh yeah, there's no
doubt about that one. Oh that's a good trade. Though, you're ready
to move to the Lakers. I have the Lakers next. I'm always we
always want to talk late. All right. This is kind of another simple
one, I guess because they sort of already made. I mean, they
didn't have a lot of moves to make them. They already made one.
So to me, the big question to answer is yeah, I mean,
like, I guess they're buyers, because that's just you know, on and
Anthony Davis your buyer. The question is just is when do you when or
if you trade those two first rounders. It seems like it's not going to
happen. They can trade their twenty seven and twenty nine. There were a
million permutations of those two attached to Russell Westbrook for Buddy Healed and Mouths Turner
or players X and Y or whatever. Else is out there. It's just
a question of is it worth it to do that now you've basically given up
your only draft assets, or do you just kind of wait, let Russ's
contract come off the books, sign somebody and you still in free agency and
you still then have those picks to dangle in some other deal. The Lakers
are other than Patrick Beverley, are really hard up for matching salary if you're
not going to have Westbrook in there. So how they go about getting,
you know, a bigger wing or just more shooting or forward that can defend,
Like, how they go about that is really tricky. They just don't
have the assets, and they gave up a bunch of seconds to get Rude
Hotchimura, who I do not think will answer any of the real questions that
Roster has on either end. So yeah, I mean, you target all
the normal guys like Josh Richardson crowd or Robert Covington. I'd even look at
someone like Chris Duarte, Burks, Camraddish, Doug McDermott, just any any
live body that can play like a two or a three position and shoot it
a little bit, and you know, if you get run over on defense,
whatever. I guess that's not the biggest deal, but you just really
have Beverly to do something with. So I kind of wonder if the Hotchimura
move is gonna be it, because unless somebody really wants Patrick Beverly, I'm
not sure what else the Lakers really have left to do. Imagine calling yourself
the care take over Bronze legacy this summer and then giving him Ruey Hotchimura as
like your big trade acquisition. Like my god, So you just don't think
and I think you don't believe. My question was would you trade one or
both of the first round picks? But that like, that's the biggest question,
and I'm all, so, here's I want to lay this out.
I talked about this on the podcast reaction that I did to the trade.
I was wondering, and I felt a little bit smarter about it, wondering
this after I heard zach Loo talk about the day after. I'm sure people
think I'm just parroting him, because I'm sure that's what typically happens. However,
anyway, you took on Ruey Hatchmore, you say you want him back
this summer, which take that with a metric ton of sault the Lectors can
have thirty plus million in cap space, they can just renounce him. They
might prefer that. Maybe they could work with even his cap holds close to
nineteen million, but you could sign he's gonna cost less than that. And
so let's say if he costs ten million, you signed him for ten million,
and you still have twenty plus million in cap space. They might go
that route. But I'm also wondering, if you really want to keep Ruy
or you're planning on working with some version of his cap hold or his next
salary, have you now shown an inclination to take on money beyond this season?
And does that up the anti in terms of what you can get back
in a trade. But also does it then if you're gonna take back money,
does it increase the likelihood that you give up both or one of those
first round picks because you're willing to take back money? Well, what does
that mean? Are we talking like Gordon Hayward's contract as taking back money type
of thing? Or well, you can't do I mean, honestly, like
if they were offering Gordon Hayward for Russ like I might consider it at this
point. Maybe not, But I'm just saying like, even when you're talking
about the Boyan bogdanovitch Is of the world, or if it was Malik Beasley
or Gary or even just like the the idea of, well, why would
you go after Fred van Fleet from the Raptors where I know Raptors fans didn't
want both the first round picks and like the Beverly plus salary package the Lakers
can offer. But I might consider that if I'm Toronto, I'm so like,
doesn't make it more likely that because you're maybe viewing this maybe if you
really, if if you want to keep Ruy, you're viewing this through a
longer term lens. It's not even necessarily about taking on someone who's on contract
next year, but you're willing to make a bigger trade because you will pay
that person or keep the money that's already on the books, because you're not
as married to doing something in free agency this summer. Yeah, I think,
And I've gone back and forth on this over the course of the year.
I think where I'm at now and where I've been at for a little
while, is that of the trades that have been discussed or even hints it
at I don't think there's one out there that gets the Lakers to the level
they need to get to and would therefore justify the giving up the twenty seven
and twenty nine picks. And there's a bunch of stuff wrapped into that,
which you know we talked we've talked about before, of like who gives a
shit about twenty seven and twenty nine picks? Both because executives don't last forever
and because Lebron and Anthony Davis are at this level now and figure out the
rest later. I just so if it's Turner and Healed, which it isn't
going to be, I don't think that. I think that's just that ships
sailed, and I don't know so that even that didn't do it for me.
So I guess I hold onto those picks, and my plan would be
we I don't know, really kind of messes this up, I think,
or complicates it. My plan would have just been, can we sign Kyrie
Irving, can we get him to figure out can we get him to take
less than his max? And then can we use those picks with some other
salary we get from somewhere to then go get somebody else. In addition to
that, there's a million ifs, and like, I don't even know how
realistic that is, but that would be my approach. Now, I want
somebody in that salary cap space, and then I want to be able to
trade those picks for like a fourth guy, you know, after ad Lebron
and Kyrie. That would be my approach. So that's also why if it
were me, I'm not sure the Lakers do much else before the deadline.
And that's reflected in my trade idea for them, which is the Lakers get
Josh Richardson. It says Phoenix, I'm a document, I must not have
changed the team. But the Spurs get Patrick Beverly's expiring and then twenty five
and twenty seven second round picks from the Lakers. And this is the thing
that I struggle with is when fans are like, well, why does the
Spurs want Patrick Beverley And the answer is that they don't. He's an expiring
contract, he'll be bought out, probably resigned in Minnesota or something. Just
look at it as that, and so you're getting two second round picks for
Josh Richardson. Yeah, I think if I'm the Lakers, I'm undred percent
yeah, let's do that. If I'm the Spurs, so we'll get I'll
have the Spurs in a little bit, but I want more than seconds,
just because so I think that's probably realistic. It's me holding out and being
stingy. And if I'm the Spurs or anyone that's got a desirable wing or
expiring guy, I just want to see if this market is tight enough to
where I can squeeze a first out of somebody, because there's gonna be like
seven eight teams really wanting Josh Richardson, and that's just not because he's great,
but that's just because that's what you've got available. So I think that's
a reasonable trade. Even if if I'm the Spurs, I might try to
try to see if I could find a first somehow out of that. This
was fun. I think we killed it. Are you ready to take us
out? Yes, everybody, Thank you again for listening as always, and
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Nilikina, who again was unmentioned in this episode, and an apology to Jared out