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We're pumped to be able to share
an exclusive trailer with you after today's

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show. From Blue Liar Studios comes
Golden Goal Stories of Soccer Legends. Each

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Monday, two new episodes will take
a look into some of soccer's biggest stars

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00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,439
in the moments that define their careers. All narrated by Brandon Kelly, the

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host of Bluelyars, Always Cheating podcast
from halland Zalton, Messi, Rapino and

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many more. Each episode will focus
on the historical plays and personalities that make

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the sport great. So stay tuned
after this episode and check out Golden Goal

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Stories of Soccer Legends. Wherever you
get your podcasts, what it do Hardwin

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00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:36,719
Knox listeners. I am Dan Pavalley
coming at you with Adam frommel and my

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puppy Wade who's sitting on my lap
as we do this and being highly annoying.

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Still love him. Though. We
are continuing on with our decade ranking

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series. We're up to the top
ten players of the past decade four the

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Milwaukee Bucks. Thank you to everyone
who participated in the ranking sheet that MBA

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math through out there. Follow MBA
Math on Twitter at MBA Underscore Math and

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you can help out with all future
King episodes. We'll have the Minnesota Timberwolves

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00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:07,000
next before we begin. Just to
our usual housekeeping notes, Please please,

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please, please please please remember to
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anyway, writer review it really helps
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track of any constructive criticism suggestions like
I said comments about Adams Calves at this

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point, those are always welcome to
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com search Hardwood not We will come
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Most of our podcasts, and definitely
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In just a moment, Adam,
how are you doing. I'm gonna put

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on my old man pants here for
a minute and say that I'm spending every

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waking moment wishing, praying, fervently
hoping that the goddamn fireworks are done finally.

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I don't know about you, but
in our neighborhood we've we've had fireworks

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going off nightly from like nine pm
until two am for about two and a

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half weeks now, and it's a
it's gotten quite old. As as the

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owner of two dogs with an eighteen
month old, we even had a Robin's

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nest in our front yard and the
nest has been abandoned because of the fireworks,

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which is really sad and it's I'm
ready for it to be done.

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It has been the same story here, and as someone with two dogs,

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I try to understand that the stance
of people want to let off fireworks.

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I don't want to be that person. But when it was one am on

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Sunday night, a work night,
and they're going off, like no,

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that's not okay. Whether you have
an infant or puppies, it just doesn't

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matter that that was not cool.
So I'm totally with you. But people

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have more time on their hands,
it seems if you know, they're still

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working from home, or maybe they're
not working at the moment, which I

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obviously hate to find out, but
that does seem why there's an uptick in

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fireworks. People are bored is what
I really feel like. And what could

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be more American than torturing all our
veterans with PTSD? Are you ready to

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rank the top no? Follow up
on that one. Huh? Are you

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ready to rank the top ten Milwaukee
Bucks of the decade? I am there.

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There are going to be significantly fewer
fireworks in this one. Yeah,

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this was this was a rough one. Before you get get us the number

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ten, can you, as usual
take us through a brief description of how

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this shin date works? I can, Yeah. So, as always,

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we've had you, the listeners,
the fans contribute via the polls that we've

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put out on the NBA math Twitter
account asking for your top ten members of

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the Milwaukee Bucks during this decade,
which dates back to twenty ten twenty eleven.

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So we have three different components.
We have the fans voting, we

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have my ballot, and we have
Dan's ballot, combining those together to form

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a composite score, which is the
top ten that we're going over today.

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So in the Buck's composite rankings,
we had Andrew Bogit, Jabari Parker,

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Monte Ellis, and Greg Monroe just
barely miss out on the top ten.

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Spoiler alert. This was weird,
especially at the bottom. It was hard

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to find people who were actually deserving
of a top ten spot. But we

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did have Brandon Knight check in at
number ten solely because of Dan's contributions.

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Brandon Knight did check in at number
twelve on the fan vote. He rose

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as high as fifth on two ballots. I had him sparely outside my top

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ten. Dan had him up at
number eight, which means the floor is

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yours. To justify that one.
Look. So in his time there two

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seasons spanning two seasons, he averaged
seventeen point nine points five assists per game,

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shot thirty six point one percent from
three about forty six percent on twos.

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That is the time that earned him
the Monster contract he ended up playing

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on that became an albatross, And
I'm not going to factor that in because

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those two seasons with the Bucks were
pretty good. He never led in above

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average offense, and that's probably the
red flag here. But you know,

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if you're gonna put up numbers like
that over a semi consistent period of time

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in this exercise, specifically where everything
was so wide open that season, and

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let's say a half he spent in
Milwaukee's it still ended up being over one

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hundred games. That matters. There
was over the competition at the bottom just

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wasn't two fierce. And again I
recognized that the Bucks offense was never elite

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under him, But those were the
best one hundred and twenty four games of

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his career, I think you can
safely say. And it wasn't too much

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of a mirage because he had not
so much during the time he played in

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Phoenix that year after he was traded, But his first full season in Phoenix,

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he was really good, and so
this wasn't just him maybe capitalizing on

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on a mirage. He clearly wasn't
as good as these numbers show, but

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he dealt with injuries after he ended
up with Phoenix, and that definitely contributed

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to how far he fell. So
I was actually surprised that I am the

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reason he is in the top ten. I thought he might be a consensus

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pick. I remember watching Brandon Knight
breakout on the Bucks after his failure of

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a tenure with the Detroit Pistons and
thinking that it steemed legit that this was

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the start. This was a twenty
two year old kind of coming into his

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own and as an offensive force who
could score from all over the court even

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if he didn't have the most consistent
three point shot, who could capably facilitate

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even if passing isn't the thing that
he looked to do most often. But

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then I think it also became clear
that, you know, there are some

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guys who put up big stats on
losing teams, and they aren't necessarily just

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empty calories. I'm thinking about like
Trey Young on the Atlanta Hawks, Devin

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Booker on the Phoenix Suns in previous
seasons, Guys where you watch them and

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you're still just filled with this obvious
feeling that they're really good basketball players and

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not just a product of their circumstances. I'm not quite sure that Brandon Knight

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fit into that category. He played
for a fifteen win Bucks team during his

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first season and just had a perpetual
green light and capitalized on it. But

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I just looking back, I think
that there was maybe a little bit too

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much optimism about his tenure. Now
that said, like, I do totally

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get putting him in the top ten. He was probably the toughest cut for

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me. But fourteenth and minutes played
with the empty calories offense, like it

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just wasn't quite enough for me to
want to have him there. That's Brandon

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Knights still never been to the playoffs
in his career, and I guess he

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might not be. I don't know
that he's going to be end up on

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a team long term anyway. I
will say what I also liked aboutom is

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he was someone who could play off
the ball as well in the backcourt.

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That gets tough if you want to
play with another point guard because he's only

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six two. But that optionality,
and you know how I love optionality.

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That really that did it for me
as well. And so it was just

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look, it is just a chaos
fest at the bottom of these buck ranking

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at the bottom of the Bucks rankings. I think that contributes to the thinking

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too. Is optionality or portability the
bigger dan fa Valley buzzword. Oh,

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it's gotta be portability. I feel
like I'd probably say that a lot more.

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Who knows, I feel like you
say optionality more, but it's also

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a more common word. So like
when you factor in that second part,

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I feel like portability might might rise
to the top of the Favalley Power rankings.

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Yeah, that's fair. The optionality
is definitely commonly used. I do

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feel like I'm one of the few
podcasters or writers that consistently uses portability.

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I have yet to stumble across anyone
else who uses it. Maybe one day,

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maybe one day, maybe this will
start a trend for the dozen or

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so people listening to this podcast.
Yeah that between that and theirness, we

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have things that should really catch on. We have the words, we have

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the best words. Theirness, I
feel like, didn't really come up in

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the last in the Miami Heat rankings
now I'm thinking about it that was recorded.

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Really didn't I think that I was
it was it was more about like

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those moments than the theirness, probably
because there have been moments speaking of theirness.

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Though number nine typifies theirness, John
Henson one hundred percent typifies theirness for

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the Milwaukee Bucks, I was the
only person who had him in the top

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ten this time. He was a
thirteenth and the fan vote did not make

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the cut for Dan. I had
him up at number seven. Fourth and

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minutes played during the decade for the
Milwaukee Bucks. And even if he was

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never a star or even a starter
for most of his time, he was

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just this consistent presence, I guess
is the best way to put it.

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Like, he was never gonna blow
you away on your side of the ball,

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but a consistently solid interior defender who
didn't have much switchability just before that

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kind of became at a premium in
the front corp and a guy on offense

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who was going to knock down mid
range jumpers, was going to serve as

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a rim runner and didn't necessarily try
to over extend himself. And there's value

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in accepting and thriving within your role. Yeah, I think what really held

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him back for me was it felt
like they were forever waiting for him to

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turn into their center of the future, and it just despite ending up with

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a you know, fairly significant four
year deal from them, it just never

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it just never came came to be
that way. And so he's he typifies

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their in this, But I feel
like his tenure there was largely unimpressive,

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and maybe it would have been different
if he ever was there clear cut big

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of the future, but he just
felt like this this stop gap where they

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had him, they kept him,
but they were always searching for the next

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best option after him, even while
he was on the roster. I thought

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he was gonna be so good coming
out of North Carolina. He's just he's

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one of those guys where I watched
him throughout his three years with the Tar

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Heels and saw that consistent improvement,
saw him starting to expand his range,

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saw him improving his free throw percentage
and having a better feel for the game,

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and I was like, this dude's
going to be a star. Twelfth

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pick, our fourteenth overall pick in
twenty twelve, and just I don't know

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that he fizzled, but he really
just stagnated. There definitely wasn't enough optionality

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there you go from him on the
offensive end. I mean, I mean

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you talked a little bit about his
defensive portability there you go, but on

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offense, like it's not that you
needed him to have a jumper, that

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he needed to space the floor really
or that he needed to work with it,

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like he needed to at least be
a little bit better of a pastor.

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It needed to be something that kind
of separated him from the thick of

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rim running bigs on that end of
the floor. And I don't think there

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there ever really was. Maybe some
buck stands will disagree, and that's totally

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00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,679
fine, you can yell at me
on Twitter or or something. So I

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00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,039
think that definitely, you know,
not so much in this discussion specifically,

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00:13:07,039 --> 00:13:11,840
but that that's a talking point for
his time in Milwaukee. It is a

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very different player than the guy who
checks in at number eight, even though

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they filled like kind of similar roles. Number eight is Larry Sanders, who

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00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,080
was the first person who unanimously appeared
on all three components. He was number

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00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,360
eight for the fans, he was
number nine for me, and he was

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00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:35,559
number ten for you. Sanders,
what a weird and brief career it was.

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00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,080
It's it kind of felt like,
you know that shooting star that you

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00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:45,879
know, just it catches everyone's attention
and then and just disappears and you pretty

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00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,480
quickly forget about it. When when
he was breaking into a bigger role with

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00:13:50,519 --> 00:13:56,639
the Bucks in twenty twelve thirteen,
he was just the embodiment of defensive and

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00:13:56,799 --> 00:14:01,200
excitement. I think, just a
guy with interminable laye who played with so

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00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:05,879
much energy and so much passion and
so much hustle and just seemed to really

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just feed off of blocking shots and
consuming those interior attempts. I every time

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00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:13,399
I hear his name, I picture
it written in all caps with an exclamation

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00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:16,759
point at the end. Shout out
to Zach low there for doing that in

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00:14:16,799 --> 00:14:22,720
all of his columns, and it
just it didn't last. But I think

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00:14:22,799 --> 00:14:28,200
that the level that he reached in
terms of excitement and invigoration to a fan

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base that was struggling to find reasons
to continue to support a team that was

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largely floundering, was really important.
Yeah, for sure. And look,

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for a while, it just looked
like he was going to be one of

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the elite rim running floor protectors in
the league. And the rash of injuries

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he suffered was just something They weren't
always related. He had thumb issues,

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he had back issues, he had
knee issues, and those every plays in

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seventy one games in the twenty thirteen
season. Like he's just really never available

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for Milwaukee in the two seasons after
that, and then, as we know,

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he left the NBA, tried to
attempt to come back with the Calves

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that didn't really pan out. And
so, as you said at the top,

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it was this really weird career trajectory. And I actually forgot how many

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seasons he logged at least a few
games for the Bucks within this decade.

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I mean, we're talking about five
different ones, and so he has the

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theirness factor a little bit, even
though the game total isn't up there since

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he only played in two hundred and
thirty three games, And so he felt

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like the guy who was actually tabbed
to be that center for long term in

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for Milwaukee, and I thought he
really was going to be that solution,

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and injuries predominantly made it so that
it never really went that way. I

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would be curious if you dropped fully
healthy, let's say, twenty twelve,

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twenty thirteen Larry Sanders in the NBA
today, I just kind of wonder what

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he looks like. I think he's
still fine. You needed him to probably

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do more as a passer as well, and would he be strong enough to

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go up against some of these other
bigs. But he had some really good

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mobile on the defensive end, and
then he was just this brick wall around

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the basket, and and so that
coupled with he was seemed fairly reliable at

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his peak anyway as a finisher while
he was running running towards the basket.

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So just a fascinating player to talk
about, and I just wonder if the

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injuries never hit, what we what
we're taught, what we're saying about him

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right now. It doesn't even matter
if he was on the Bucks or not.

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Is he higher up these rankings,
does it still kind of fallow the

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same way? I don't know.
I do think it's important to note that

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it was more than injuries too.
I mean, he he got suspended after

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multiple tests for marijuana usage, which
his bullshit, but that's another topic for

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another time. And then more more
seriously, he also ended up checking into

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a program at a hospital to be
treated for anxiety, depression and mood disorders.

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You know, it's it's unfortunate that
that happens everybody, anybody. I

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think he's done a really good job
talking about that and helping to destigmatize it,

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and may the right decision for his
personal well being to not pursue a

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return to basketball until he got his
mental health in better shape. His career

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could have been very different without that, But I think it's less important than

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him getting his life on the right
track too. That is unequivally correct,

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and he I think this is actually
it's somewhat topical because he said that he

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wants to come back to the NBA
semi recently. It was like a week

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ago he told DMZ that he would
like to come back to the NBA.

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So I'm just if you're right,
I think the injuries played, I guess

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a huge part of what was happening
on the court, but there's obviously things

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off the court, and he glad
he took care of himself first and foremost.

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And then yeah there's the marijuana thing, which is just absolutely ludicrous.

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So but I'm just curious if we're
not, you know, if the injuries

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never hit, is there anything that's
different about this? You know, naturally

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the anxiety probably wouldn't go away,
but it does. He becomes sort of

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this on court like billboard for someone
who destigmatizes it a lot, in the

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way that Kevin Love and Demarda Rosen
that he was never going to reach those

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pinnacles, it is to me at
least somewhat interesting to consider. Unfortunately,

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I just don't think that he would
have. We saw how quickly just dominant

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defensive presences like Roy Hibbett got marginalized
and the changing NBA, and I think

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it would be really tough for a
guy with such a limited skill set to

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really thrive in anything more than a
very limited minutes role, and I think

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that's bad. Like I'm largely in
favor of the stylistic changes that the NBA

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has undergone over the last decade or
so, the propagation of three point heavy

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offenses, which even though they result
in like fairly homogeneous shot selection, those

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shots are generated in such different ways
that there is still nuanced to each offense

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and it is still enjoyable to watch
different styles even if they're producing fairly similar

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results. But that trend has effectively
eliminated guys like Larry Sanders, guys like

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Chris Anderson, those high flying shot
blocking specialists, and I think the NBA

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was better with those players in it, And it's just it's it's a shame

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to me that it's harder to find
a home with that role now. Yeah,

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yeah, that that totally makes sense. And it's been such a stark

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shift with it that it's it hasn't
been it hasn't been as gradual as the

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three point revolution, and so that's
I think why it it seems like it's

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had such an impact on the way
centers of you in general, because it's

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not like this, you know,
the surge of BAKA, like archetype where

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you wanted this floor spacing rim protector
like that was kind of like to get

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there where he was still an anomaly
a few years ago and now that's almost

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just like the standard. It just
felt like there wasn't this natural transition towards

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it. I don't know whether that's
good or bad. I tend to think

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that the game has never been better
than it has right now. But I

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totally get your point where it's kind
of a shame where you see, you

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know, good players de valued or
sort of schemed out of the league in

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00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:59,960
certain cases. Look at Clint Capella, he was treated as the inferior player

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to Robert Covington in that trade,
that fourteen trade that involved the Rockets.

285
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They give a first round pick in
that deal. So that's not a shot

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00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,119
at Robert Covington, who's fantastic,
but it's you know, two years ago.

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Is that where you're talking about Clint
Coppell on a first round pick for

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Robert Covington. I don't. I
don't think so. No, definitely odd,

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And I don't think those are mutually
exclusive points either. Like we can

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00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,960
bemoan the the the inability for players
in every role to have a place in

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00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:30,680
the league while also enjoying those stylistic
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some players who have been able to
make those transitions more, more seamless,

302
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more seamlessly. I'm struggling with that
word and more with more impact and more

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seamlessly than this transition that you're making. It was a good segue that was

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very poorly executed. But yeah,
so we're moving on to Brook Lopez at

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00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,200
number seven, or at least I'm
attempting to. He checked in at number

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five the fans. He was number
eight for me. He was number seven

307
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,200
for you. But he does kind
of embody the transition that centers have been

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asked to make, even if not
all of them are capable of making the

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00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:48,079
leap quite like he has. I
mean, he went the first almost ten

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years of his career without really serving
as any sort of three point shooter,

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and then all of a sudden,
with the Brooklyn Nets at the very end

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00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:57,000
of his tenure, and then with
the Lakers, and especially with the Bucks,

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00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:02,119
he's turned into this floor spacing five. But more than that, he

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00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,960
went from maybe a defensive liability because
of his lack of mobility and inability to

315
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,319
contribute on the glass early in his
career to a guy who I think is

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00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,119
a very legitimate choice for Defensive Player
of the Year this season. Right.

317
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,240
And what's interesting, too, is
that part of what's made him special is

318
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:25,799
to have made this transition and to
not even be among the best three point

319
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:30,119
shooters at his position this season,
specifically, he struggled among one hundred and

320
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,960
twenty six players who have attempted at
least one hundred triples with a defender six

321
00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:38,000
or more feet away, so wide
open threes, he's twenty nine point two

322
00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,960
percent clip ranks one hundred and twenty
four, so they're only two players shooting

323
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,680
a lower clip on those shots.
But because he's able to do other things

324
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:51,319
on offense, his passing has improved
ever since he started under Kenny Atkinson in

325
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,480
Brooklyn. At regime helped him make
quicker decisions. He could still really torch

326
00:22:56,519 --> 00:22:59,599
people in the post. In Milwaukee, we've seen him really pump into drives

327
00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:02,640
more and take people off the dribble. He's not super fast, but he's

328
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,720
just so big and nimble that it
works. That all helps, and then

329
00:23:06,759 --> 00:23:08,839
he is just incredibly important on the
defensive end, Like he said, he

330
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,440
probably belongs in the discussion. I
don't know if for defensive Player of the

331
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,519
Year, but certainly for an all
defense team, which is almost the same

332
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:21,720
thing because there's only two center spots
up for grabs in those So I admire

333
00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:25,000
that. And it's funny because he
was viewed as this liability on defense early

334
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:26,880
on in his career, and I
don't know if people just didn't watch him

335
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,559
enough at that time. Maybe it
was to do had to do with all

336
00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:34,240
those foot injuries that he suffered because
he very clearly wasn't this good defensively for

337
00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:37,480
a lot of his time with the
Nets. And that's just not even close.

338
00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:40,480
That's just a fact. But he's
such a strong rim protector now and

339
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:44,279
he's for someone his size, I
wouldn't say he's matchup proof, but he's

340
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,000
he's pretty damn close. And it's
not because he's quick, but he just

341
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:51,480
knows how to use space his length
and he just gets in. He's like

342
00:23:52,039 --> 00:23:55,920
really low stances that makes you look
like he's trying to perfect his squat form

343
00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:59,799
or something, so and it all
just works out. He is an incredibly

344
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:03,920
useful player, and it's it's my
melting or that he was in a position

345
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,720
where he was playing for such for
the Biannual exception, I think it was

346
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:10,880
last year before we got this big
contract. It was you go from the

347
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,480
Lakers, from the Nets to the
Lakers, and you kind of have that

348
00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:18,039
his stock change so quickly, which
is sort of a harbinger of what we

349
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:22,680
were just talking about. Where the
center positions, it's so susceptible to these

350
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,599
reflexive opinions where we can see values
just we see them mostly plummet but they're

351
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,599
certainly more turbulent than they've been in
years past, and his ability to kind

352
00:24:30,599 --> 00:24:37,079
of withstand that is admirable. I
don't think that brook Lopez is the best

353
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:41,799
defender on the Milwaukee Bucks. I
think that title has to belong to Jannis.

354
00:24:42,319 --> 00:24:47,319
I think you can make a convincing
case that he's the most important defender

355
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:52,680
on Milwaukee. Jannis does more.
He's able to flit around between every possible

356
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,319
matchup on the court and positively impact
the proceedings regardless of who he's defending.

357
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:03,400
I'm not sure that that degree of
switchability of playing free safety essentially within the

358
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,759
half court set is possible without brook
Lopez serving as that back line defender.

359
00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:11,480
I think I agree with you,
But there's also a conversation that we had

360
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,720
about whether because brook Lopez is so
good, does he hold the Bucks back

361
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,440
a little bit from exploring more.
Yannis at the five combinations, which may

362
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,880
in fact be the best version of
themselves at some point. They've gone to

363
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,519
it more this year than they ever
had before, but it's still I think

364
00:25:25,519 --> 00:25:27,839
it's sub five hundred possessions for the
season, and I do think those lineups

365
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,920
end up being important in the playoffs. But because Lopez is so good,

366
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,559
are you less inclined to go towards
the right Nothing to do with his individual

367
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,519
value. I guess just a thought
exercise from me. But who do we

368
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:41,440
have at number sin, I'll go
ahead a number six. Well, I

369
00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:45,920
was gonna say, I think that
we also just have to give Lopez a

370
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:52,519
shout out for not just the stylistic
evolution, but the evolution mentally with the

371
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:55,920
role that he's taken on. I
mean, he went from being a consistent

372
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,519
twenty point per night threat with the
Nets, who was an all offense everything

373
00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:03,319
we're gonna just eat up those touches
in the post and from the elbows,

374
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:07,960
to a guy who's only averaging eleven
points per game and might be having the

375
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:14,400
best season of his career. And
it's exceedingly rare to have a player,

376
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,680
regardless of the position at which they
operate, to take on that kind of

377
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,720
transition while still in their prime.
Yeah, that makes death, makes total

378
00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:27,640
sense. But anyway, number six, we have Malcolm Brogden, who was

379
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:32,559
number seven for the fans. I
would have expected him to be higher number

380
00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:33,799
six for me, and you had
him all the way up at number four.

381
00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:37,680
Yeah, he was that was things
got a little bit murky for me

382
00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:41,240
after I went with my top three, and I didn't know, do you

383
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,279
put him above Brandon Jennings, you
put him above ver Son Iliasova? I

384
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,599
really didn't know. But he was
part of some of the best Bucks teams

385
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,200
we've seen in recent memory, and
there was just a plugin playinis to his

386
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,920
impact where it was he could be
a game manager when you gave him the

387
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:03,799
ball, but he gave you this
a ton of positional range on the defensive

388
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,000
end, was a knockdown shooter for
the looks that he was taking while he

389
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:08,400
was in Milwaukee. And he could
also do you know, get by some

390
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,720
guys his drives and he finished in
transition, I think more often than people

391
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:18,880
realize it. So just this really
rock solid presence through his entire time in

392
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,160
Milwaukee. And hey, we're talking
about a co Rookie of the Year here,

393
00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:26,000
so and maybe I'm getting a little
whimsical for him because of his draft

394
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:29,839
status, you know, to see
how important he became to some of the

395
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:33,160
best versions of the Bucks, knowing
he went thirty six overall. But maybe

396
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,359
that's skewing sort of my vision there
too, But it's I think the best

397
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,039
way to frame is I viewed him, even though the Bucks have been spectacular,

398
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:45,799
I viewed him as a pretty big
loss when he went to Indiana in

399
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,599
free agency, and so that also
kind of upped him in my rankings by

400
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,680
default as well. His career arc
has already been so fascinating. If you

401
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,000
look back at the Rookie of the
Year voting from the twenty sixteen seventeen season

402
00:27:56,079 --> 00:28:00,920
that he wanted in the top five, we had a high between Willie hern

403
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:06,680
and Gomez and Jamal Murray, and
then Buddy Healed, who shot below only

404
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,079
forty two point six percent from the
field that season, then Joel Embiide who

405
00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:14,440
played thirty one games, then Dario
Sharitch, and then Bragdon was the winner

406
00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:18,039
that season. And it's like there
was so much negative reaction to him winning

407
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,599
Rookie of the Year just because as
good as he was and as valuable as

408
00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:25,559
he was and as fun as he
was to watch it also it just it

409
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,000
felt like a very much a down
year for Rookie of the Year voting,

410
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,720
and it's almost like he took that
personally and then it's just like, I'm

411
00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:37,920
gonna get better in every single area
now and developed into one of the most

412
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,440
efficient, smart shooters in the league. Just a guy that's never going to

413
00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:47,839
force the game but manages to have
it come to him in so many different

414
00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:51,960
ways. The plug and playness,
as you mentioned at the top, an

415
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,160
ability to handle the ball, to
play off the ball, to work as

416
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,559
a cutter, to work as a
spot up shooter. Just there is no

417
00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:03,519
role that rocked and isn't going to
thrive in. And that's it was important

418
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:07,680
to the Bucks, it is important
to the Pacers, and he's just continued

419
00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:14,440
to not just validate that Rookie of
the Year but improve on it. I'm

420
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,279
with you in lockstep with you on
there too, And like you said,

421
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:22,759
the trajectory is unique and interesting just
because he you felt like his Rookie of

422
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,799
the Year. I was saying that
Morezo and Jess. It was sort of

423
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:29,839
this underwhelming co victory that season,
and yet when you look at what he

424
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,759
developed into by his third year in
Milwaukee, he was a fringe All Star

425
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,640
and he was just scoring more than
you thought. All of it came within

426
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,599
the flow of the offense basically,
which is not something you normally say of

427
00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:44,599
a guard. So just I probably
maybe I'm clearly higher on him than most.

428
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,160
Maybe it's too high, considering there
are players who spent a lot longer

429
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,480
in Milwaukee than he did. But
I stand by my number four drop for

430
00:29:51,559 --> 00:29:53,400
him. It's a valid spot.
And as you said, this was a

431
00:29:53,480 --> 00:30:00,440
murky section of the rankings. It
was. It was difficult to differ entiate

432
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:03,240
between all of these players that were
about to talk about, including number five,

433
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:07,559
which is Arison Iliosova, who was
number six for the fans. I

434
00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,079
had him up at number four.
You also had him at number six like

435
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,759
the fans, another guy who didn't
provide big, glamorous scoring numbers. His

436
00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:19,759
time with the Bucks was interrupted by
a two season stint in Spain, but

437
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,599
he still checks the Birness box better
than most. He's third minutes played for

438
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,440
the decade, one of only three
players who hit five figures in minutes,

439
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,119
and he was just this consistent effort
guy. I feel like when you talk

440
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:38,039
about Iliosova, you have to talk
about the charge taking, because he might

441
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:41,119
be one of the best ever in
that facet of the game. It's a

442
00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:45,920
limited facet, but it is a
facet nonetheless, And I'm going to back

443
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,599
that up actually because in February twenty
nineteen, I did a big Twitter thread

444
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:56,000
about Iliosova's charge taking and what a
ridiculous outlier it was. At that point,

445
00:30:56,039 --> 00:31:00,759
he had ninety five charges over the
past three over the past three seasons,

446
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,200
Kyle Lowry was second with sixty nine, then Kemba Walker was sixty eight.

447
00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:08,079
And if if you look at Z
scores for the charges that he took

448
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,079
per game and compare it to scoring, that would be the equivalent of someone

449
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:17,640
averaging forty four point nine points per
game in terms of Z scores, which

450
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,119
I just I thought was fascinating and
helps like put into perspective just how far

451
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,759
ahead of the pack he was in
that area. That is not random but

452
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:33,839
fun. That is wild. That
is absolutely wild. So he's he's an

453
00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,480
interesting player, and he's he has
two different stints with the Milwaukee Bucks during

454
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,920
this decade now as well. And
so there's the floor spacing thirty seven point

455
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,039
seven percent from three during his time
with Milwaukee. As you said, there's

456
00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:48,079
there's the charge taking. He's someone
that I think, at least in previous

457
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,960
years, could have been a little
bit or was a little bit better at

458
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,640
creating his own shot. Not something
that you're necessarily going to ask him to

459
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,720
do a ton anymore. He can
give you a mismatch at center two maybe

460
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,279
with completely torching your defense. I
know it works with this year's Milwaukee Bucks

461
00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:06,519
team, but it's it's really this
team is such a special team, and

462
00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:09,920
I almost feel like it's unfair to
identify that as the standard, but they're

463
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,680
in the ninetieth percentile of defensive efficiency
when he plays at the five. And

464
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,480
so just a very useful sort of
glue guy. And I think we even

465
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:22,480
saw, you know, he was
a big part of the reason Philly mid

466
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:27,400
season a few years ago, like
sort of had just that just built up

467
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,039
its stock where it didn't feel suddenly, but was just a big part of

468
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:35,759
them becoming such a staple in the
postseason. So Iliasova again, just that

469
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,759
rock solid glue guy. And I'm
stumbling through this because I'm dealing with an

470
00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:43,519
influx of emails and text messages because
Patrick Mahomes just signed a ten year extension

471
00:32:43,599 --> 00:32:45,359
with the or ten year deal with
the Chiefs, which is that's a very

472
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,920
long deal. But that caught my
attention while I was going through this,

473
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,359
So I apologized to everyone, but
Iliasova, I think is kind of like

474
00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:55,039
right where he belongs, and there's
definitely a variness factor there for him as

475
00:32:55,039 --> 00:33:00,200
well too. He is and I
was also surprised kind of see that he

476
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:04,079
was third in windshares through this team, which I think has a lot to

477
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:07,000
do with a vairness actor for him
as well. Do you think it's fair

478
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:10,200
to say that Ilyasova is one of
the most underrated three and D guys?

479
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:16,039
Ever, it depends on how much
value is defense, I think yeah.

480
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:22,759
I mean, he never had the
flexibility on defense. He was never much

481
00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:27,680
of a rim protector. But there's
value in the scrappers and the guys who

482
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,640
are going to take charges so well
and who are going to sacrifice their body

483
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:36,200
and die for the loose balls and
be rough and tumble from start to finish

484
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,680
whenever he's on the court. I
don't think he was like a lockdown defender

485
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:43,960
or anything. But I feel like
the three and D definition kind of gets

486
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:49,599
warped a lot and applies to people
who aren't necessarily good defenders but shoot a

487
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,720
lot of threes or vice versa,
Like they're great defenders, but they're awful

488
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:54,640
shooters, and we just kind of
want to pigeonhole them into that, but

489
00:33:54,680 --> 00:34:00,480
we don't necessarily extend the definition to
include guys who are just average at both,

490
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:05,039
and he's been averaged at both for
a long long time. Yeah,

491
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:07,199
I mean, that's probably a fair
way to look at it. I don't

492
00:34:07,719 --> 00:34:09,960
saying he's one of the most under
a three D players of all time,

493
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,639
though it feels like it might take
it a touch too far, but perhaps

494
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:19,679
I'm not valuing his defensive utility nearly
enough to not be a consistent net negative

495
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,960
or detriment is a pretty big deal
when we're talking about floor spacing bigs.

496
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,519
It is. But you know who
was an obvious negative on the defensive end.

497
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:32,079
Who's that? It's our number four
player, Brandon Jennings. He was.

498
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,239
He was number three for the fans, he was number five for both

499
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,880
of us, and he was number
one to Brandon Jennings. He entered the

500
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,119
league shooting, and he exited the
league shooting, and he did a whole

501
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:52,840
lot of shooting in between. It
did not consistently make the Bucks a better

502
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,920
team. Quite the opposite, in
fact, but he put up a whole

503
00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,400
lot of big numbers. Look,
and there's something to just be said that

504
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,559
on any given night, he could
just drop all the points in the history

505
00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:08,320
of the fifty five spot as a
rookie, which granted is outside our time

506
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,800
frame, but deserves to be talked
about. Nonetheless, And look his numbers

507
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,599
with through the three seasons he spent
with the Bucks, seventeen point six points,

508
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:21,960
five point seven assists, one point
six steals. Never a good defender,

509
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,760
but opportunistic there with his gambles,
and he shot almost thirty five percent

510
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:30,079
from three not not the worst,
not the worst splits in the world,

511
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,599
only shooting forty three point three percent
on twos on this perpetual heat check.

512
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,599
Even when he wasn't hot, there
was definitely at points of destructiveness to his

513
00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:43,239
game, it felt like, but
he was Look, if you can score

514
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:46,719
that much in the NBA, and
even on what are you gonna say,

515
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:52,519
suboptimal efficiency like there was being very
generous, but yes, there's there's a

516
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:57,360
there was a place for that.
And imagine him if he hadn't been basically

517
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,840
the face of the team for so
long, or if he had been just

518
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,920
a guy who came off the bench
as a sixth man. That seems like

519
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:07,159
the role that he was never really
at the height of his powers. That

520
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:08,960
seems like the role for which he
was best suited, and obviously he was

521
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:15,320
just never able to take on that
role. You know, I have not

522
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:21,679
done nearly enough research to validate this
statement, but I'm gonna go out on

523
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:27,280
a limb and say that Brandon Jennings
might be the worst player ever who has

524
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:36,159
scored thirty or more points in seven
different seasons. I mean, can you

525
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,639
run that by me one more times? So he scored at least thirty points,

526
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:46,199
like his season high exceeded thirty in
seven different seasons. I mean,

527
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:52,199
it's possible, and that's also like
kind of impressive, is but it's like,

528
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:53,599
I don't know how many people have
done that. First of all,

529
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:58,920
I don't think there's really an easy
way to search for that on Basketball Reference

530
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:04,039
or anywhere else. But I can't
imagine that that many guys have done it,

531
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:10,480
especially especially in a career that only
lasted nine seasons. He probably is

532
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:14,639
still in the NBA if he never
suffers that achilles injury, right, are

533
00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:19,639
we in agreement about that? Sure? So he was also kind of fun.

534
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,079
I was just gonna because he didn't
really know what was gonna happen whenever

535
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:23,960
he had the ball, and he
was always like kind of like skipping up

536
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,280
the court. It felt like as
if he was on the playground. And

537
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,639
so I respect that level of This
is a pro Bread and Jennings podcast.

538
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:34,960
I want to make that very clear, and if Adam doesn't agree, he

539
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,079
can show he's free to see himself
out. I mean, I'm not I'm

540
00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:42,199
not trying to insult him, like
as you said, like, the ability

541
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,960
to score thirty plus points in seven
different seasons is remarkable in and of itself.

542
00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:51,840
I'm just I'm saying that it's probably
an exclusive group. I don't currently

543
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:57,320
have a way of of objectively determining
how exclusive a group it is, but

544
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,239
I would imagine he's on the back
end of that. It's like when we

545
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,400
say, like, okay, there
are like twelve players averaging twenty five plus

546
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,280
points and he has the lowest true
shooting percentage of those twelve, Like,

547
00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:09,440
kudos to you for being in the
club, but we're also going to pick

548
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,840
on the negative here. Yeah,
no, total, I was just just

549
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,800
messing around. But Brandon Jennings fun
to watch, not the most effective player.

550
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,320
That might be then probably not so
fun to watch if you were emotionally

551
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,639
invested in the Bucks at all at
points, but still, yeah, yeah,

552
00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:25,559
I think that's fair. I'm going
to I'm gonna try to do the

553
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:30,320
research and we can check back in
on a future episode and see if Brandon

554
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:37,519
Jennings truly is the worst player to
score thirty or more points in seven seasons.

555
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:40,320
That might need to be a podcast
series onto itself. We can make

556
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:45,480
that happen. Who do we have
at number three? At number three,

557
00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:50,519
we have a far more valuable player. I think we kind of entered more

558
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:52,360
of a more of consensus territory in
the top three, at least for you

559
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,639
and I, where we were in
lockstep. Although the fans did have Brandon

560
00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:00,719
Jennings above Eric Bledsoe, who checks
in at number three, he was number

561
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,320
four for the fans, He was
number three for both of us. He

562
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:08,000
felt like a lock for that third
spot to me, where even if he

563
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:14,159
hasn't spent that much time with the
Bucks only six minutes, played one slot

564
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:17,280
below Brandon Jennings. He's been so
grips He's been so good and so valuable

565
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,960
on both ends until the playoffs roll
around. Look, he's an All NBA

566
00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:27,320
defender and the past two postseasons have
not been pretty by any stretch, but

567
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,960
he's shooting. He has an effective
heel goal percentage above sixty three in isolation

568
00:39:31,079 --> 00:39:36,159
this year, which is the best
mark in the league among any player who

569
00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:39,760
has attempted more than fifty shots in
isolation. And so maybe he's more playoff

570
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,519
proof now, which kind of makes
his top three case air tight. But

571
00:39:44,519 --> 00:39:46,960
when you look at what he can
do defensively, even just his birth to

572
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:52,360
the basket, it's a big deal. And so the more inexcusable playoff folly

573
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,440
from him is getting out played by
Terry Rozier in twenty eighteen. Last year,

574
00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:00,960
I thought he was fine defensively.
There's just there's an element of solvability

575
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,679
to the Bucks and I don't want
to pin it on Jannis, but just

576
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,719
in general, when you look at
how there, I'm gonna say there was,

577
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,119
because I don't think there is any
more. But it's I think it's

578
00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:17,280
open for discussion to me also,
so I don't want to pin it entirely

579
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,639
on him. A lot of it, I feel like has to do with

580
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:23,159
the way Johannis hastened to Google plays
and now that he's more comfortable taking fadeaways

581
00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:28,480
and pull up jumpers. Jannis has
doubled his pull up jumper attempt from three

582
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:31,000
this year compared to last year,
and I think that helps out Brandon Jenning.

583
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,519
It's not just the efficiency, it's
wow, Eric bletso it could help

584
00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:38,760
out Brandon Jennings too, but whatever, So that helps out bletso to me,

585
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,760
I think he ends up being better
in the playoffs this year. And

586
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,760
yeah, even if he doesn't,
I don't think his top three spot is

587
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,519
in jeopardy just relatives to the competition. But it also feels like he just

588
00:40:49,639 --> 00:40:52,360
he can't move into the top two
no matter what he does in the playoffs

589
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,400
this year. No, no,
Chris Middleton's lander here. I almost put

590
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,360
Middleton one. I didn't, but
you did. You definitely did try to

591
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,800
make a point give Chris Middleton.
Though. It's funny that the top three

592
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:07,320
is going to be the quickest to
go through because we're talking about known commodities

593
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,559
that had that have like zero arguments
against their position. Like if you don't

594
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:15,760
have Jannis at one, spoilers or
Middleton at too, I don't really know

595
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,760
what you're doing, but but carry
on, can I can I tease an

596
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,800
article that you're doing for Billy to
report. Is that allowed? U?

597
00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:23,960
Sure? Yeah, so you know
you were. You were talking to me

598
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:30,320
about this article you're working on about
the biggest flaws in the resume of the

599
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,039
top players in the league, and
Middleton's included as as he should be.

600
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:37,320
I mean, the guy's averaging twenty
one point one points and is literally two

601
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,760
made shots away from a fifty forty
ninety season. What the hell is his

602
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,800
flaw? Like? What has he
done that's worthy of criticism at any point

603
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:51,480
during his NBA career? He's developed
into this fantastic scorer who can operate off

604
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,639
the ball, who can create from
scratch, who who thrives from these outdated

605
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,360
mid range long two zones and makes
them work for himself while not sacrifice saying

606
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,199
three point volume in efficiency. A
guy who consistently takes on tough defensive assignments

607
00:42:05,199 --> 00:42:07,719
and holds his own there, A
guy who overcame injuries in college and being

608
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:12,599
the thirty ninth overall pick in twenty
twelve and being given up on far too

609
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:15,519
soon by the Detroit Pistons to become
an absolute star with the Bucks, a

610
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:21,960
very legitimate second fiddle on a championship
caliber team, Like what do you criticize.

611
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,719
I think it's that he just doesn't
fit within the neat context of a

612
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:30,280
traditional number two. And I do
think now more so than ever, that's

613
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,800
really out the window when you've seen
some of his playoff performances. Look,

614
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,679
last year, he kind of created
when the rest of the Bucks offense created.

615
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,320
But over the past two seasons,
the offense has been good when he

616
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,920
plays without Janni's Attenta Kompo, and
that's a big deal, and he seems

617
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,199
to check every box. I think
this year it's definitely circumstantial because you know,

618
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,639
Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, those
are injured guys, Kyrie Irving,

619
00:42:52,679 --> 00:42:57,519
Karli Anthy Towns, Joel and bad
Paul George. None of those players really

620
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,760
appeared enough games, or any games
at all. But all of a sudden,

621
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,679
Chris Milton might have been a top
ten player in the NBA this season.

622
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,840
I'm talking about just this season,
but not even been. He's certainly

623
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,159
he's going to make an All NBA
team. He should be third team All

624
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,920
NBA. I think that ends up
being him and Jason Tatum. So there's

625
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,239
he just doesn't have a ton of
hole in his games. I do think

626
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,679
it's fair to question whether he has
the it factor of if you want to

627
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,199
call him an actual top ten player
or a top fifteen player because his game,

628
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,360
I think the biggest criticism might be
it kind of stalls out before he

629
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,000
gets to the rim. And I
think that's where a lot of the oh,

630
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:32,519
he's not a traditional number two stuff
come from comes from, as you

631
00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:37,800
exacerbate one of the one of the
few flaws in his game. And there's

632
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,760
a chance that he is, if
not a probability that he is a cut

633
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:45,079
above what you would say is a
normal star, but he's he's an All

634
00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:46,960
star at this point. I don't
know if people are just viewing him disfavorably

635
00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:52,000
because of the contract that he's on. Still, Chris Middleton is one of

636
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,760
my favorite players in the NBA,
and I think he's one of the most

637
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:59,320
effective ones. And he's the type
of guy where I feel like he straddles

638
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,480
that line between I will go out
and get you buckets out of nothing,

639
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,519
but I will also fit within any
offensive model you tell me too. And

640
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:08,079
even when he was kind of there
was a push and pull between him and

641
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:12,199
Coach Bud with his shot selection where
I want you to take more threes,

642
00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:15,840
but then he relents in this season, he's taking more mid range jumpers.

643
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,280
He was still just he had that
universality to his game, and so I

644
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,519
don't think he definitely isn't going to
be challenged for number two in this discussion,

645
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:25,559
But the conversation we're having right now
is a larger one, and it's

646
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:29,480
one that, assuming the Bucks stayed
together, depending on what happens in the

647
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,079
postseason this year, it continues.
And I do think though, that we're

648
00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:36,320
past the point where we can just
say that he's not a viable number two

649
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,679
on a championship team, because I
absolutely think that he is. You know,

650
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:44,599
I know you're hesitant to toot your
own horn, but you were high

651
00:44:44,639 --> 00:44:47,519
on Chris Middleton a lot longer than
most, and I feel like you were

652
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:52,360
one of the first people that saw
something special in him. You know what

653
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,360
it was is that I knew because
the Detroit Pistons didn't give him a long

654
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,679
enough look, that he would end
up being good. That's totally fair.

655
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,079
Thebas Spenser did what he reread,
that must have been what it was.

656
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:05,199
And look, when you throw out
thousands of terrible tapes, you're bound to

657
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,360
get one or two. Right,
also fair, So are you are you

658
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,440
saying that you know Andre Drammond is
going to develop into like a four time

659
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:16,079
MVP. Now it's possible. That's
very need to Detroit. Still so speaking

660
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:22,719
of four time MVPs though, that's
my segue into a future four time MVP.

661
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:29,480
Jannisana Dakumbo, who was the very
obvious number one for this franchise.

662
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:34,639
He was unanimously number one in the
composite rankings. He appeared in the number

663
00:45:34,639 --> 00:45:37,440
one spot on all but two fan
ballots. I'm going to assume both of

664
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:43,000
those were troll ballots because one had
JJ Reddick in first place and Jannis in

665
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:46,320
second. The other I'm going to
read in full because it's fantastic. It

666
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,599
has Brandon Jennings in the number one
spot, followed by Larry Sanders, Arison

667
00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:55,599
Iliosova, Andrew Bogit, Michael read
Monte Ellis, Nate Walters, John Henson,

668
00:45:55,719 --> 00:46:00,599
Earl Boykins, and Jannis in the
ten spot. I do appreciate that

669
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:05,400
Jannis has done so much for this
franchise that even the troll ballot can't leave

670
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,559
him off entirely. That's a bigger
compliment than it consents. His number one

671
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:13,360
finish. I agree. I agree
one thing. You know, he's so

672
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,159
obviously the number one that I feel
like we can talk about the weird things

673
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:19,239
like that. I was caught a
little by surprise that he's actually number one

674
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,920
minutes played for the decade for this
franchise, just given that he entered the

675
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:27,239
NBA in twenty thirteen as an unproven
commodity, a guy who only played twenty

676
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,840
four point six minutes per game as
a rookie and took a couple of years

677
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:36,239
to develop into a full fledged star. It just I didn't know who I

678
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,280
expected to be number one. I
don't think, but I just I didn't

679
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,599
feel like it was going to be
honest until I ran that search. It's

680
00:46:43,679 --> 00:46:45,800
kind of like the perception of it. I thought Brendan Jennings played more minutes

681
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,039
than he did for the Bucks this
decade, and you just undervalue what what

682
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,239
Yann has played, because look,
my memory of him is barely playing in

683
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,400
his first season. I didn't realize
though, that he's still actually average almost

684
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,280
twenty five minutes game, right.
I feel like the only thing I remember

685
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:06,920
from that rookie season is him just
going toe to toe with Carmelo Anthony just

686
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,960
like that one game against the Knicks
in Madison Square Garden where he was like,

687
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:15,119
I want the challenge. I'm gonna
lock up mellow. Yeah, that's

688
00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:19,280
like his rookie season is such a
blur. But I definitely when I went

689
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,519
back and looked at his stats page, I didn't see that he I didn't

690
00:47:22,559 --> 00:47:24,199
think he played in seventy seven games. I definitely didn't think the average almost

691
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:28,880
twenty five minutes per game in those
contests. He also just still felt like

692
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,039
a novelty. Then. This is
because he's so clearly the number one over

693
00:47:32,159 --> 00:47:37,159
under on the number of MVPs Jannis
Tenta Goobo wins. He has two.

694
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,199
Let's get that he has two.
Let's set it at four point five.

695
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,159
I'm gonna go over it. I
think I think if you want to play

696
00:47:47,199 --> 00:47:51,719
the hot take horn here, feel
free. But I think that Jannis is

697
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,280
going to go down as one of
the five best basketball players ever. Oh

698
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,519
wow, that is the hot take, hor And we need to sound that

699
00:47:58,639 --> 00:48:01,559
if you have one sounded right now
out five best basketball players ever. All

700
00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:06,320
right, Look, he needs to
there's still that stain of the twenty nineteen

701
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:07,880
Eastern Conference Finals. And I'm not
saying he's still the best player in the

702
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:12,239
league to me, But he has
to there's going to have to be like

703
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,760
more of an element of winning for
him to get there, Like there has

704
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,920
to be like he can't. He
has to be like the right kind of

705
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,039
matchup proof, Like we can't be
talking about how there's always a round or

706
00:48:22,079 --> 00:48:24,280
a series of games where oh the
sound think he's already getting there, though,

707
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:28,320
I mean it might be the issue. The issue last year was that

708
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:34,199
you could wall off on defense and
force him to play from the outside.

709
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,760
If you could prevent him from getting
to the rim and finishing around the basket,

710
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,960
you to some extent at least solved
him. But he's spent this entire

711
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:45,320
series or this entire season in the
workshop working on the counters to that,

712
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,480
and how many times have we seen
him hit that little turnaround mini jumper.

713
00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:55,119
That shot alone changes everything, right, It opens a ton of things up.

714
00:48:55,159 --> 00:49:00,519
So I think he gets there.
It's just they're gonna top five all

715
00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:04,920
time. It's just such a I
think he's fully capable of getting there for

716
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,840
some reason. I just can envision
it, because maybe we're too early into

717
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,480
his peak right now. But it's
tough for me, I don't think we're

718
00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:15,000
at his peak. That's the thing
I've wanted. I don't think we're there

719
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:20,920
yet. That would be obviously if
you're gonna think he's top five all time,

720
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,039
So four point five MVPs, though
it's tough for me to go over

721
00:49:23,159 --> 00:49:28,280
just because Lebron only has four,
and maybe Jannis will. His timing will

722
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,960
just be more convenient of his peak, where there's not really a ton of

723
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:35,039
other narratives that play as heavily is
what he's doing. But as we've seen

724
00:49:35,079 --> 00:49:37,280
in years past, voter fatigue is
real, So I would be inclined to

725
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,199
go towards the under just based off
that fact. I think he'll be worthy

726
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:47,199
of five MVPs or more absolutely,
how about can I qualify my choice of

727
00:49:47,199 --> 00:49:51,320
the over and say that I think
he's gonna get five if he stays in

728
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,280
Milwaukee, and I think it'll be
under if he doesn't. Similar to how

729
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,880
when Lebron left for the Miami Heat
in twenty ten, he should have been

730
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,960
the MVP in twenty t eleven,
but no one wanted to vote for him

731
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,920
because he'd become the villain in the
league. Right, And if if Jannis

732
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,760
goes to Miami or to Toronto or
somehow is traded to Golden State or something,

733
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,840
and then that something similar is going
to happen. But if he stays

734
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,960
in Milwaukee, I feel like he's
one of those universally beloved players, right

735
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,760
and even if he even if it's
not the villain thing, if he does

736
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,599
leave, and this is not us
picking on the Yanna situation, it's just

737
00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:28,000
true of when superstars leaving general,
it's probably because he's playing with another superstar

738
00:50:28,119 --> 00:50:32,519
two and they in turn usually dilute
each other's candidacy. But no one's going

739
00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:37,960
to vote for Chris Middleton for MVP, so he's safe there. Yeah,

740
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,480
that's a that's totally aweso fair.
There will be people that will vote for

741
00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:43,159
him for All NBA this year,
even though, as I kind of mentioned,

742
00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:45,719
with some of the players who have
been injured and not played in enough

743
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,880
games, they'll still be pushedback for
including him an All NBA thirteam. I

744
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,559
feel like, right, So,
okay, so I'm gonna I want to

745
00:50:52,599 --> 00:50:55,199
follow up on the on the all
time ranking thing, because when I say

746
00:50:55,199 --> 00:50:59,400
that he's going to be top five
all time, that means that he's in

747
00:50:59,639 --> 00:51:05,599
that's category. As Michael Jordan,
Lebron, James Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Trey

748
00:51:05,679 --> 00:51:10,760
Young, and then janis, so
where are you going to have him all

749
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,400
time? Was not prepared to answer
this question. I didn't give you a

750
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:20,239
trivia question this episode, so I
feel like it's fair. I'll say top

751
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:25,719
fifteen pretty comfortably if he continues,
you know, barring anything catastrophic, I

752
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,039
think top fifteen, i'd say comfortable
with you. I think he has the

753
00:51:29,159 --> 00:51:31,599
chance to be top five all time, I absolutely do. If he's look,

754
00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:37,239
he might be someone probably talking myself
into just year take. He might

755
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,800
be someone who just wins Defensive Player
of the Year in MVP multiple times in

756
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:44,519
the same season, so forget about
it even happening once. I guess voter

757
00:51:44,519 --> 00:51:47,800
fatigue could kick in there as well, so it all needs to be considered,

758
00:51:49,679 --> 00:51:54,039
it wouldn't it. I don't think
it's absurd to say that he could

759
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:58,480
be a top five player of all
time. There's just still so much left

760
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,559
of his career. I don't remember
talking about any player in those terms this

761
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:06,719
early, except for maybe Lebron.
I mean, so his numbers this year,

762
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,199
right, twenty nine point six points, thirteen point seven rebounds, five

763
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,760
point eight assists, a steal in
a block per game while only playing thirty

764
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,079
point nine minutes per game. Because
the Bucks are so far and away the

765
00:52:17,079 --> 00:52:22,360
most dominant team in the league that
it's similar to Stephen Curry in his peak

766
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,920
seasons, where he just didn't need
to play the second half of the fourth

767
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:30,280
quarter. He was able to rest
for those maintenance purposes. If he stagnated

768
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:36,159
from here on out throughout his athletic
prime. If he played at this level

769
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,920
for the next four or five seasons, we're already talking about a guy who's

770
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:45,079
a candidate to be one of the
ten best ever and he's going to get

771
00:52:45,119 --> 00:52:47,320
so much better as he continues to
develop. I mean, this is a

772
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,320
guy who didn't pick up a basketball
until later in his childhood than we typically

773
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:57,159
see from guys who are playing in
the NBA. It's he's shooting thirty point

774
00:52:57,199 --> 00:53:00,280
six percent from three point range on
four point eight attempts per game, and

775
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,639
that's been market improvement, and yet
it still feels like he can do so

776
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,840
much more. It's just I don't
know how often you get a guy who

777
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:15,519
is playing at this level while only
scratching at the surface. I guess I'm

778
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:20,599
just questioning how much room he has
to grow when he's already twenty five and

779
00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:23,119
there's really only one part left of
his game to improve, and that would

780
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:25,960
be his jumper. And if he's
already comfortable taking jumpers off the dribble,

781
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:30,400
if you start hitting those at league
average clips, we're probably talking about like

782
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:36,079
in its over player, what is
the conversation then? So I see the

783
00:53:36,119 --> 00:53:37,880
tug of four there where I'm like, well, how much better is he

784
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:39,400
going to get at this point?
But it's really he's kind of already doing

785
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,719
the thing you want him to get
better at. It's possible he gets more

786
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,239
efficient, and if he does,
then it's just over. I was not

787
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,679
prepared to have this discussion on today's
pod, but I totally understand where you're

788
00:53:49,679 --> 00:53:52,559
coming from. I think it's always
important with these discussions to acknowledge too that

789
00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:57,400
so much has to go right for
those predictions to be validated. Like he

790
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,400
has to not only stay healthy,
but has to surround him with the right

791
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:07,719
pieces. Seasons can't be canceled because
of a pandemic, which is a very

792
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:12,559
real consideration right now, and beyond
that, he has to stay motivated and

793
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:17,599
continue to have that drive throughout his
career that is difficult to maintain at a

794
00:54:17,679 --> 00:54:22,840
level like someone like Lebron James seventeen
years in has still displayed. Yea.

795
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:28,199
It's it's similar to like when we
watched Zion Williamson for these nineteen games that

796
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,880
have taken place so far in his
rookie season, or even when we watched

797
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,480
him coming into the league, it
didn't feel like that scorching a take to

798
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:39,400
say like, hey, here's a
guy who feels like he could be in

799
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:45,400
that greatest of all time conversation.
A whole hell of a lot has to

800
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:52,000
go right for that to actually happen. But just the ability to reasonably say

801
00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:55,760
that that possibility exists is so rare
in and of itself, And I think

802
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:02,159
it's telling for Jannis that that that
feels so valid already. All that's fair,

803
00:55:02,199 --> 00:55:06,519
And I think if if he keeps
up what he's doing, I think

804
00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:10,320
he's guaranteed entry into the top ten
of all time. And so by extension,

805
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:15,159
that doesn't make your top five stand
seem that absurd. I just you

806
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:17,239
know what it is. We haven't
started having this discussion about Yannis yet.

807
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:22,480
Collectively in the agrement or anything,
and so that's probably why it's so tough

808
00:55:22,519 --> 00:55:24,159
to wrap the head around. But
I don't think what you're saying is it's

809
00:55:24,159 --> 00:55:28,360
definitely worth the hot take, horn, but it's it's actually not, you

810
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:35,199
know, stupid on top of your
other take. I didn't want it.

811
00:55:35,199 --> 00:55:37,559
I didn't know what the word.
It's not a reach. So it's not

812
00:55:37,639 --> 00:55:39,400
as much as a reach as it
seems right now, is what I would

813
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,480
say. Hm. But yeah,
I mean acknowledging that so much has to

814
00:55:44,519 --> 00:55:47,719
happen right for it to become a
possibility. You want anyway? Do you

815
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:53,000
want to take us through? Yeah, that's it's clearly honest. Do you

816
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:57,679
want to take us through some of
the best honorable mentions? I would love

817
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,119
to. So. Outside the top
ten on the fan Allott, we had

818
00:56:00,159 --> 00:56:05,679
Jabari Parker at number eleven, Brandon
Knight at number twelve, John Henson at

819
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,719
number thirteen, Michael Read one of
my all time favorite players at fourteen,

820
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:13,920
Greg Monroe at fifteen, George Hill
at sixteen, JJ Reddick at seventeen,

821
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,800
a three way tie between Mike Dunlevy, Corey mcgetti and Tobias Harris at eighteen.

822
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,320
Dante di Vincenzo at twenty one,
Zaza Pachulia at twenty two. Nate

823
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:29,000
Walters and Oj Mayo and unlikely pairing
are tied at twenty third. Tony Snell,

824
00:56:29,159 --> 00:56:32,280
Jared Dudley, Lucamba Mute and Earl
Boykins are tied for twenty fifth,

825
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:37,199
and then a four way tie for
twenty ninth between Pat Connaughton, Thon Maker,

826
00:56:37,519 --> 00:56:42,440
Harrison Iliosova, and the one and
only Michael Carter Williams. Oh,

827
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:47,360
Michael Carter Williams made honorable mention.
Congratulations to him. Anybody another another rookie

828
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,320
of the year who might have been
a little questionable Bulls played for the Bucks

829
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,320
though too. They were Yeah,
that was a thing there. Yeah,

830
00:56:54,559 --> 00:56:57,920
that'll do it for us. This
was This was an interesting one. It

831
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,159
was a tough one to pass through. And then Adam threw a curve well

832
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:04,679
that we did not discuss before recording
this podcast. So we hope that you

833
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:09,199
enjoyed the abnormal amount of off the
cuffness here. We will be on to

834
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:13,840
the Minnesota Timberwolves next time we record
one of these podcasts. Please again remember

835
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,920
rate, review and subscribe to us
wherever you're consuming these episodes until next time,

836
00:57:17,039 --> 00:57:22,440
we leave you with a shout out
too Milwaukee Bucks legend John Sammons.

837
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:34,039
This is Brandon Kelly, the host
of Bluewire's new podcast, Golden Goals.

838
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:40,960
Thanks everybody else, from Leonel Messi
to Marta to Pelee. Our show takes

839
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:51,719
a deep dive into soccer superstars water
Welcome for Meghan Rappino, from Zlatan Ibrahimovich's

840
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:57,440
brash confidence with the play to back
it up, to Megan Rapino's heroic outspokenness

841
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,760
and World Cup flare. Each episode
examines a personality of the world's game,

842
00:58:02,039 --> 00:58:08,199
Will Diggin's of Maradona's Hand of God
performance and subsequent downfall, the teenage trio

843
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:15,440
at Dorton that signaled the next generation
of superstars, and that infamous headbut that

844
00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:22,800
slung Zadin Zedan from Glory. Golden
Gold Soccer Stars and the moments that made

845
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,320
them. Premiering this summer on Blue
Wire,