What is krak Alakin fellow Thermo lupire A efforts. I am Dan Develly coming
at you without my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant News. But I
am joined by a certified fantabulous co worker slash friend, Brian to Porek.
Please follow him on Twitter or blue Sky or whatever other social media thing is
out there at b to Porek. That's at bt O p o r e
K. He covers the NBA for Forbes. He's the co host of another
friend of the podcast moret the podcast, the NBA Podcast, The NBA Pod.
Try to remember that name. Go follow them there, listen to their
stuff. It's always fun. I very much enjoyed your pod where you guys
just basically went I felt like an hour on the Dejante Murray extension. I
appreciate minutia like that. So yes, Brian, welcome back, Thank you
for coming on. How are you doing while we're all in the dog days
of being held hostage by exactly two NBA players. As someone who has the
privilege of covering one of those teams, I'm doing great. Mental health has
never been better. Love writing the same story fifteen times and finding a slightly
different spin. But thank you for having me. You and I actually met
in person a couple of weeks ago, which was lovely, so I'm glad
to see you again. It's good to see a friendly face. And now
we've met in person, which by the way, aside, so we're at
the b our offices is where we were where we met up first. There's
like this huge mural and I was the only one who took a picture in
the empty seat. No one else put a picture this huge moro and like
that mock nbcat. I saw no one else doing it, and I was
like, I'm gonna do it anyway, so I would have expected like a
cool seated pose. I took a picture of the random Donovan mcnet a poster
that was up there. It was like Donovan McNabb and Troy Vincent, I
believe, like old school Philadelphia Eagles. That would basically my teenage years.
So that that was the highlight of the office for me, and all the
incredible food there within like a two block radius upset office the highlight for me
and the br offices for listeners who just probably don't know, have like a
half court like basketball court inside I have not played inside in forever, and
so like when I start to shoot like twelve to fifteen percent on jumpers,
like and so like every like, I haven't played inside in years, and
so my my jumpers were going in more often than they normally do it,
so it maybe feel really good. But then I actually went and played outside
the following weekend and it was just uglier than it was in the br offices.
You just saved your game to show off and cry to co workers.
I respected my twelve to fifteen percent clip from like the three point line.
I was just I was very proud of it. Yeah, it was the
mark Elle fault so much. So we're gonna talk about James Harden the Sixers
just because I have you on and Joel Embiat and everything that gets into it.
There's nothing like really new since we last talked about it on this podcast.
I guess, you know, there are a few different ways that it
could technically end. And by end, I mean like we head into the
regular season and James Harden is on the Clippers, James Harden is on the
Sixers, or James Harden is on a different team, and I'm just like
looking at the regular season specifically the start of the regular training camp. How
do you expect this to end? Right now? I think he's going to
be on the Sixers heading into training camp. I think the fat suit is
coming out again. I think we've seen this playbook before. I mean we
have, We've seen like we know, we know what's coming from both sides.
Daryl Morey might be the most stubborn team president general manager at any front
office executive in the league. He gave a radio appearance last week where he
outrights it like I'm either getting a really good player in return, or I'm
getting the assets that can get me a good player in return down the line,
or James Harden or not going to trade him. And we've seen James
Harden both in Houston and in Brooklyn when he wants out, he is going
to absolutely dog it. So that's like, I think it's just going to
get ugly, and I know, you know, Jake Fisher of Yahoo Sports
reported, No, he's not going to do the Ben Simmons thing where he's
like doesn't report or reports late and then you know, says he has some
sort of injury and you can't play Like he's going to make life miserable on
the Sixers until they trade him now, so is his reporting the worst case
scenario or I guess still being on the team the worst case scenario for the
Sixers because I get everything you just said, but I'm also gonna get this
from the perspective of this isn't the James Harden of three years ago in Houston,
and he has cost himself double digit millions of dollars in each of the
past two seasons looking at what he could have made, and he's arguably cost
himself even more than that just because he didn't sign a loft term contract when
he had the chance. And now that you are the age that you are
and you're coming on like the insofar as there was even something to debate,
the postseason discussion is over. You are not a postseason basketball player. You
are not. You had some, you've had some You've had some really good
games, but you've had some mostly non descript to really bad games. Can
you really break out? You'll come in out of shape and loaf through an
entire games Again, like everyone was that twenty twenty or nineteen whatever it was,
lives in infamy of like going against the Kings and just like it was
one of the worst basketball performances anyone's ever seen from a player actively on the
floor. Can you actually afford to do that? And I guess if you
only have the one destination being the Clippers in mind, okay, sure,
but like you you're at this point, like you do have a next contract
to play for sure in fury. I mean that that would be the pragmatic
logical approach here, But the pragmatic logical approach typically doesn't apply to superstars.
And I you know, I'm guessing his theory is the more miserable I make
life on everyone around me, the more likely Darryl Moorey eventually just has to
cave and be like, get this dude out of here, because now we
also have to worry about Joel Embiid, who you know, is starting to
publicly flirt with maybe I won't end my career in Philly or spend my whole
career in Philly. And is that I know that's part of this calculus.
But if James Harden gets moved, is there a scenario on which they get
the assets, let's say, assets that they want, but they're unable to
flip them for an immediately good player, and the Joel Embiid trade request timeline
is accelerated to before this upcoming trade deadline, or you very much just see,
given what's left on his contract, given the status of everything right now,
there's no chance that this comes to a head this year, this season
whatever. I don't want to say, there's no chance. There's always a
chance with any superstar to get disgruntled. And if you know, especially if
Harden is miserable and he's n MB's ear about how mean the Sixers front offices
being to him because they don't want to pay him two hundred million dollars,
even though no one else wanted to pay him two hundred million dollars, and
even though they legally talk to him about that, right right, I mean,
that's that is the Sixers going story that they you know, got hit
with the tampering penalty last year, so they didn't want to negotiate before free
agency began in fear of another tampering penalty, and Harden in his camp wanted
clarity on what they were going to offer, and they opt out. Deadline
was June twenty nine, and they couldn't begin negotiating a team if so,
you know, it would be funny. It would honestly be funny if it
was really just like a miscommunication or a lack of communication that was just not
technically possible. And like, you know, what if the Sixers were willing
to offer him a two plus one deal or you know, a three or
one hundred million plus deal, and he just got a patient and was like,
no, screw this. I mean, worst case scenario, I feel
like they would have likely offered him the same amount of money, maybe with
a second year team option instead of a player option, or like you know,
partially guaranteed instead of fully guaranteed. But you're still technically getting more money
in that scenario. So it just felt like, you know, I don't
know, I don't know what communication or non communication was happening then. So
maybe the Sixers were sending signals like, hey, man, if you opped
out of this, we're only offering like twenty million instead of thirty five point
six. I can't imagine that was the approach because because then you know,
he's gonna come and be pissed off or he's just gonna try to leave.
But I think he's mad because he spent six months trying to drum up this
Houston Houston, Houston stuff as leverage against the Sixers Houston Highers. He may
Adoka, and he may Adoka's like, yeah, I don't think so,
guys. We we're gonna go for Fred VanVleet, like it's max him for
two years. Yeah, And you would think that series of events would be
slightly humbling to James Harden, knowing what he gave to that Rocket's franchise over
the years, knowing his familiarity with the ownership group in particular, knowing that
they pivoted away from him and maxed someone else. Maybe that's the wake up
call of like, hey, no one's giving you this money. It's just
not going to happen. Like, I haven't looked closely enough at next summer,
and it's frankly like too early to realistically project which teams are going to
have a ton of cap space next summer, because who knows what's going to
happen with player options and trades and all that stuff between now and then.
But who's given him this money next summer? Either? I think you know
he opted in great he secured himself thirty five million this year. Are we
sure that he's gonna get a nine figure contract next offseason. So it all
goes back to this earlier question of like, what does he have to lose
by acting out? I don't know that he has all that much to lose
because I don't think the big pay day is coming. I think that window
has passed. Unless, you know, if the Clippers do trade for him
and he is the catalyst to a deep playoff run, then sure they'll probably
pay to resign him and resigned Kawaii and resigned Paul George. Everyone's hunky dory.
But like, if he becomes a free agent again and is trying to
force his way to another team, cap space is just not a thing as
much as it used to be. Like I wrote about this for Forbes and
it's gonna go live Friday morning. You know, twenty nineteen is really the
last time like superstars trick change teams via free agency? Yeah, it was
you know Kauai KD, Jimmy Butler back then, even Kemba was still in
that tier back then, like all NBA players. We haven't had a single
all NBA player changed teams via free agency in the last four years combined.
And I think that's just a byproduct of you know a lot of the changes
that we've seen in the news the last two cbas where you know, they
expanded how much you can give in extensions. It went from one hundred and
seven point five twenty eleven two hundred and twenty percent. Now it's up to
one hundred and forty percent. So I think teams are realizing we can just
extend these guys and trade them for late, trade them later, or even
they ask out, at least we're getting something in return for them instead of
losing them as free agents. And now there just aren't that many teams,
especially really good teams that have a ton of cap space. So I just
don't know what James Harden's endgame here is outside of throw a tantrum and hope
it's bad enough that the Sixers trade him to the Clippers at some point.
But going back you're gonna be a question. I think he gives it this
year, regardless of what happens with Harden, because the Sixers have you know
it more even said this on the radio. But if you look at all
of their offseason moves or all lack thereof, it's pretty clear they are angling
to be one of the rare teams one of the rare potential contenders with cap
space next summer. So I think, much like Damian Lillard with the Blazers
this passed off season, I imagine even if mbiad is disgruntled, he says,
all right, Darren moy, let's see what you're cooking. If come
July first, July second, July three, it's just being Tyrese Maxie and
you know, Harden's gone Kawai and Paul George resigned in La, Pascal Siakam
doesn't come here, Ogna Nobi doesn't come here, Lebron and a d are
still in La. All right, then it might be time to ask for
the trade. But I think he waits to see what this calf space plan
entails. So this is a weird situation when which it feels like no one's
even close to a winner, because I just don't see the order of operations
that gets the sixer through some like machination of either James Harden that's them a
star, or they get the assets necessary to get a star. And then
even if you get those assets, are you still trading Tyrese Maxie as part
of that star package? In which case, whatever you're giving up is James
Harden and Tyrese Maxie for that star, which is quite a bit more than
just James Harden. And then with hardness, Okay, he kind of has
nothing to lose, but like I know, he has an agent. Now,
this decision reeked of someone who didn't have an agent but just impulsively opt
the end or it's on his agent for not having a better lay of the
free agency land, specifically with regards to what Houston was feeling. I do
find a touch on your last point is so you just and you wrote about
it. First of all, when is the OKAC thunder piece on Forbes dropping?
We're all waiting, Oh, the draft is written. I'm just I'm
waiting. I've got something on draft Picks that's got to publish first, which
is now scheduled for August first. So okay, see probably like middle end
of next week, but it's coming. For anyone who Brian and I are
officially thunder fans. We're gonna board that bandwagon. We were going to start
in Oklahoma City Thunder podcast. Let us know if you were subscribe to it
and make it more popular than both of our podcasts combined. Yeah, the
Thunderbuddies. That's what it's coming. I feel like we can come with a
better name. But no, that's so good under buddies. All right,
there it is. We're gonna talk a lot about SGA fashion, how Josh
Giddy looks like not just Timothy Shallowmay, but I don't know his name.
I think it's right or strong from boy Meat's World. You everything about that
or I just blow your mind. Yeah, we talk a lot about Turku.
Yeah, Sean Hunt exactly. Go look that up if anyone is not
checked that out. So, yeah, we're ready to depart league wide coverage
and rooting for our current team so that we can board the thunderband wagon that
we've been We've been on for quite some time. But my honeymoon, this
is a big detour. My honeymoon with thunder fans is unfortunately over because I
wanted them to do more with their cap space this summer, and that's like
that's a no no among many of them. I get it, I get
what the franchise says and what they plan to do. I will not move
off my steadfast belief that they were good enough to do more with their cap
space this summer than they did. That is not what this podcast is about.
You mentioned the Sixers going the cap space route. You just talked about
how free agency doesn't matter anymore, and so Dalalen Brown off the board already
next summer, or Pascal Siaka might be off the board and doesn't really fit
in Philly anyway? Do you want Kawhi or Paul George and Philly? What
is the like, why should we feel differently about the Sixers prioritizing this flexibility
that no longer matters on the free agency market, Like why is that a
selling point? To Joel Embiid, that is the question that Sixers fans have
been wrestling with for the last month. I can't tell you how many people
on Twitter, Blue Sky or whatever are like, Okay, well, what
is who is the guy? Who were who were you going after? Or
is it just your prioritizing flexibility for you know, whoever shakes loose, like
maybe you don't have maybe have a plan, A plan, B plans in
place, but now there are dominoes that will inevitably fall this year. You
know that potentially set the stage for who knows asking out or you know,
someone becomes a free agent unexpectedly like, what if Drew Holiday, you know
who said he's going to retire in two years. What if he all of
a sudden declines his player option next offseason, becomes a free agent. We
can bring the processed full circle Withdrew coming back to the Sixers to leave.
Yeah, yeah, I think my guess, and this is not reported.
This is purely a guess aggregator. Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Come at me, NBA Central. Uh hey, look I think you laugh.
But I get aggregated all the time with what I write, and I'm
writing opinion stuff, and I it's all right, this is pure opinions are
aggregate away. My guess is Ogan and Nobi is the target, because I
would be very surprised if he's going to sign an extension in Toronto. Maybe
he's willing to reunite with Nick Nurse. I know he's pretty complimentary of Nurse
after is dismissal in Toronto. I think you know Siakam has the Cameroon connection
with MBID, but by all accounts, Siam and Nick Nurse were not seeing
that. We need to. I can't wait for someone to write the tell
all of what actually happened. At least not just last season, but probably
the past two years specifically. Yeah, so I don't think it's siakam like,
it wouldn't shock me if they're trying to emulate kind of what the Rockets
did where it's no depending on where the cap falls and if they can move
off PJ. Tucker in a hardened deal, and if it take back any
long term salary, like if they're taking back Norman Powell or Terrence Mann or
whoever. Know, if they really clear the books, they genuinely could have
upboard of sixty million dollars in cap says next summer, So you know,
maybe you throw which by the way, and I know you know this is
not the way it's been phrases. Is two match slots That is not with
sixty five plus million dollars get you anymore. It is even if we're going
twenty five percent maxes at that point, like you have max money and then
some that's how this needs to be praised, right. I think maybe it's
like two max slots in that you can then resign Tyrese Maxie to a MAX
after you spend all of that cap space, because he's going to be about
thirteen million instead of like you know, he's probably his new deal I imagine
starts in the thirty million dollars range somewhere around there. You have to max,
you know, and all you'll eventually be on for the look ahead,
which I wanted to start them earlier this year, like at the beginning of
August. The Sixers are not going to be a team that I'm allowed to
do at the beginning of the change. I have to sit there and kind
of identify, like I have some teams. I don't think you're going to
change much, but like you're gonna make him wait, he's going to not
just like he probably would have gotten a MAX extension or that's what he wants
anyway, Like now you have no choice but to give him the MAX.
If you make him wait, yeah, I would imagine or close to it,
or even maybe give him like yeah, yeah, yeah. But I
mean, you know, I think it makes sense for the Sixers to wait
in the sense of that, you know, if they are going this cap
space route again, his cap holds thirteen million. If he gets thirty plus
in free agency, okay, you've just like manufactured you know, seventeen maybe
upward of twenty million dollars. That you wouldn't have otherwise had And also,
like if you do trade Harden at some point, you know, if you'd
seen a half season where Embiid was, where Maxie was the lead guard before
the hardened trade. But you know, can we see tyrase Maxie, you
know, in a full season as the lead guard, Like is he ready
to absorb that level of playmaking responsibility and if not, that should frankly inform
your decision making heading into free agency next offseason, because you know, I'm
I've like poured through the list of basically all of the possible options, so
I I you know, I named a bunch of them, like DeMar De
Rosen is another one. I want to hold my nose when I say this,
but like it wouldn't totally shock me if Daryl is trying to do a
Bilow on Miles Bridges and it doesn't make me feel good. But yeah,
you know, maybe you pursue a restricted free agent like Emmanuel quickly do we
do we get a Kentucky reunion with Maxi? And quickly? I imagine Jaden
McDaniels is signing an extension with Minnesota is going to take him off the market,
but he would be another option you've got, you know, Mike Conley
is going to be a free agent, Like maybe if you aren't sold on
MAXI get you know, swing for Og as the big piece and then like
a veteran like Mike Conley as the you know, your veteran point guard next
to Maxie. Like they're gonna have options. It's just how much confidence do
you have in them executing this strategy when again, we just haven't seen stars
change hands in free agency over the past few years. Like maybe that's a
byproduct of you know, strong teams not having cap space. But you know,
are the Sixers going to prove to be the outliers next year? Again?
I think Embiid will give them that opportunity. But if you get to
mid July twenty twenty four and that door is closed and he's, you know,
now turning thirty one the following March, he's like, you know,
is my championship window closed here? And I know I wrote about this back
in May, like as soon as the Sixers season was over, basically I
said, you know, whatever happens with James Harden, whether he opts in,
opts out, they trade him, whatever, that's going to determine and
be its future in Philadelphia, and I think there is a real argument that
their window is closed. You know, it's possible that they somehow successfully navigate
this Harden trade or this caps placed plan works, you know, as as
in ten did, and maybe they get a third Star with Embied or Maxie.
But I'd say it's probably more likely than not that they just messed up
too many times in the Colandulo era. And you know, Sam Hanke built
up this giant ward chest, but that word chest is gone. They have
Maxie and they could trade a twenty twenty nine first round pick. That's it.
Like they don't. They can't get into the bidding for superstars anymore unless
you're trading Maxie, in which case, no, it's gonna be Embid and
the Star and that's it. There's just not a ton left here. So
like I you know, I don't think the Sixers are going too seriously entertain
moving Embid and all the reporting has been they won't entertain it until he asks
out. But I think there's an argument that, like it might be in
both parties best interest to at least consider it, especially next summer, depending
on how this cap space pudding goes. Are you ready to talk about some
other teams please God, yes, very quickly, because I haven't mentioned in
the podcast yet the Brownie James situation. He was Schaum's tweeted that he was
successfully treated for a sudden cardiac arrest. He arrived at Cedars Sinai Medical Center
fully conscious, neurologically intact, and stable. Mister James was cared for promptly
by highly trained staff and has been discharged home where he is resting, although
his work up will be ongoing. We are hopeful for his continued progress and
are encouraged by his response, resilience, and his family and community support.
That's just excellent news to hear. That was just really so young, and
it's anytime an athlete is gonna have like a sudden cardiac right, just so
young and so terrible. So good to know that he's on the end and
hopefully he's able to make a full recovery. That doesn't, you know,
mean that he's at risk from anything in the in the future. I did
do a Teams No One's Talking About Enough podcast with s Barraheny. Go check
out basically part one on that one. We covered the We did the Pelicans,
we the Knicks, the Magic, the Grizzlies, and the Pistons.
I wanted to cover the balance of the teams with you because I know that
you are also a sicko when it comes to this stuff, and I'm curious,
I'm curious as to whether you agreed with all the inclusions of teams no
one's really talking about. We will begin with the Charlotte Hornets, which I
think is probably just safe to say that no one is really ever talking about
the Charlotte Hornets. They were just sold for What did they get so for?
Was it three point three billion? What were two point seven? What
was the final number? I didn't even see I looked it up really quickly,
but it was it was a lot of money. It was a you
know, Michael Jordan's initial investment. It was it was about three billion,
apparently. So I split the difference like each way. So we'll go to
I want two points seven and three point three. So the Hornets, I
want to just start here, like, what are just kind of your I'm
not even sure about the impressions of the road because it's still ongoing. We
don't have a resolution to Kelly Bridge Junior's free agency. PG Washington is still
floating around restricted free agency. Miles Bridges signed his qualifying offer, so he
will serve the balance of that ten game suspension after pleading no contest to thirty
game suspension. It'll be ten games left after repleating. He was assessed that
after pleading no contest if held me domestic violence charges. But now he's playing
for his next contract. He's going to be an unrestricted free agency LaMelo should
be healthier. You get Brandon Miller, Cody Martin's going to be healthy.
Mark Williams showed a whole bunch towards the end of last season. What do
you sort of make of this team's overarching direction right now? Depressing would be
the best word for it. I mean, you know, the Miles Bridges
thing is really through no fault of their own. That like that was just
really bad luck because you know, like five days before free agency began last
year, it seemed like he was heading for, if not a MAX extension,
pretty close to it. I mean, he had a very good season
in twenty twenty one twenty two. You know, was their leading scorer on
almost fifty percent shooting average, seven rebounds, almost four assists per game,
almost one stealing a block per game, almost two threes as well, And
that just really when you're like as bereft of young, high upside talent as
the Hornets are, it just really complicated their future. So I don't blame
them for, you know, he takes the qualifying offer because they are miles
apart on an extension, And I don't blame the Hornets for being reluctant to
sign him to a monster extension coming off a year that he didn't play,
you know, knowing he's got this ten game suspension, knowing the severity of
the allegations against him, like you just simply cannot give him that same level
of a deal. So we'll see how he looks next year. I mean
again, I hinted that maybe he is a target buy low target for the
Sixers or for some other team in free agency that's willing to overlook those charges.
But and you know, maybe that also informed the Brandon Miller selection over
Scoot Henderson, knowing that, hey, negotiations with Miles Bridges are not going
well, and like he is probably going to take his qualifying offer and leave
after next year, because you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong here,
but I think since he took the qualifying offer, he has to consent to
a trade since he's now only on a one year deal, so it's not
like they can even trade him because and if they do trade him, I
don't think his bird rights go with him. So there's really no incentive for
another team to trade for him unless they're going to have cap space next summer.
Anyway, it's not like you can trade for him and then resign him
to this monster deal. You can use non bird rights so you can sign
him to making eight million dollars this year, so cool. You can sign
him to like ten million, Like, you know, it's going to be
effect actively pointless to trade for him, so they have that overhanging them,
you know, Brandon Miller, like you don't want to read too much in
the summer league, but like was inconsistent to put it generously in summer league.
And you know, Scoop, we didn't see a ton of but when
we did look really good. So that is going to be you know it
just that's how these things work. Anytime there's a controversial decision at the top
of the draft, if the guy you picked is worse than the guy who
could have picked. It's not going to reflect well in your franchise. And
then the PJ Washington thing again, it's just like, I don't know,
Charlotte, just doesn't Young Town. Imagine if he signs his qualifying offer,
I don't think that's how this ends. Would imagine if they have both Bridges
and Washington signing their quest and then it's like, how does that fit into
the larger dynamic of the team, where both these guys are clearly either playing
for their next contract end or next team. And I think, look,
there are some what I believe or misconceptions about the Hornets. I'm I would
have picked Scoot Henderson, but I'm open minded about Brandon Miller. He closed
Summer League fairly strong, and I think Lamello is probably skewed towards underrated based
off the reaction to his extension, which I do think part of it was
with the reporting where everyone said he was guaranteed two hundred and sixty million,
and it's no, that's not how that's actually gonna work. If he if
he qualifies, if the All NBA qualifier works out, they will gladly pay
him the supermax. So he's really good. I don't like he is transcendent.
I know that he shot a lot last year, but he was also
injured, and they're like the team was kind of shifting around him. They
were they weren't ever at full strength. Really. I love Lamello, I
love Mark Williams. I think we all just kind of forgot like, oh,
Cody Martin was the consummate gap filler like a year and change ago.
I can't quit JT. Thor not a core piece of this team, but
like Brandon Miller, LaMelo Ball, Mark Williams, and then like I think
they're gonna keep PJ. Washington, you're working with something like an actual baseline.
There. My biggest concern with this team you outlaid that with Miles Bridges
and is are they just sort of like this lay over for him at this
point this year before he leaves, and how do you juggle that? But
like your bite at the getting better Apple a lot better Apple is now,
Brandon Miller, LaMelo Ball and Mark Williams really in your own draft picks because
you don't have all this built up equity of other teams as draft picks.
And you're also not let's say Miles Bridges leaves, assuming you keep PJ.
Washington on any sort of number, or that you have PJ. Washington and
or Miles Bridges on your roster next summer, you don't have cap space either,
and where is what is cap things going to do for you? As
we've already talked about in free agency. So I do worry that they're going
to be more of a slow burn than I think people will be ready for,
just because all of their best cracks at getting significantly better are going to
come through their own draft picks and internal development. And I think, look,
the best case outcome for Mark Williams is probably not the second past player
on a championship team. You have Lamello there, Brandon Miller's a rookie,
and like that's sort of the really youthful baseline that you're working with. And
maybe that's not an actual big deal. But when you have that first Max
deal kicking that first really big extension, which will not be this season,
it will be next season, the clock unofficially just starts ticking on. We
have to see progress, and I don't know how much progress, if any,
next season they're built to make. When what they should be doing is
prioritizing Miller Lamello and Mark Williams, and then like again PJ. Washington as
of now, and then Miles Bridges and definitely occupy this weird space. I
do have faith that Steve Clifford will extract the most amount of defense from this
team. They were six and points allowed per possession after the trade deadline or
eighth or something, and it was all the stuff that Steve Clifford team does.
So I do like a lot of the pieces that are here. I
just have yet to see it formulate a coherent direction or even this discernible obvious
path forward from where they are right now. Yeah, I mean, like
I don't even want to call them aggressively mediocre. I think that's probably the
next game we're gonna cover. This is just depressing. It's just like,
you know, you have the Gordon Hayward thirty one point five million dollar experiment
contract, Like if I was Charlotte, I would be more than willing to
take on long term bad money if such a thing exists. You know,
if some team, especially with the second apron like the full array of penalties
kicking in in twenty four twenty five, if some team is just desperate to
dump long term money, like if they're willing to do that and include a
draft pick, but I'll mean in stay Cordon Hayward, great, yeah,
first stops trade eligible again. I mean Ben Simmons is out there, We'll
see. I know it's July, so there's optimism about him, but uh,
you know, I don't know, like they might have missed that window
already with you know, Jordan Pool getting dumped for Chris Paul. But I
would imagine some other team, you know, I'm still eyeing Atlanta, like,
I just do not believe. We'll see what happens with the Kongu and
with Sadipe Bay whether they sign extensions, but like something has to give in
Atlanta. So if they're trying to get off in some long term money,
like that's I think that's the Hornet's best path forward frankly, is you know,
use the hayword contract to get extra bytes at the Apple if you can
maybe take on a rehab project, Like if you do get Ben Simmons,
all jokes aside, like cool, no one's going to be paying attention to
him. Maybe that's actually the best place for him to resuscitate his career.
I actually floated that last year in my mega trade deadline piece, and no
dunks like the guys on no dunks like absolutely destroyed the idea that visit Charlotte.
I mean he wouldn't be thrilled, but I mean less pressure there for
now, though I don't really know if I love the fit. I mean,
like him Brandon Miller in the mel could theoretically work. But yeah,
that's where I'm at with the Hornets as well the next team, and I
do. But the other thing with the Hornets is I imagine some sort of
like c suite overhaul is coming, Like just with new ownership, you're gonna
see changes in the front office. How much do they how long do they
want to keep Steve Clifford around, who I think is a really good coach,
Like I think that this is just like especially when they're in this sort
of weird abyss, He's like, honestly the perfect coach for it. I'm
just curious whether there's going to be more changes on the horizon. Also,
it could apply to the roster. Is this new you know, this is
not matt Ishpia taking over a team that's ready to contend in the Suns,
but is this new regime going to come in and decide, like we need
to make our splash. And I'm assuming that splash would be like something in
the realm of a buy now play, But they're not. If you're putting
Lamello and Brandon Miller off limits, your trade packages are just sort of blah
relative to some other teams because of the way that your pick is protected to
san Antonio or who was their first round pick? Now is it still san
Antonio? Uh? Their future first two thousand, it's to san Antonio.
It's like protected for the next three years or two years, so like you
can't it's lottery protected. I think did twenty four and twenty five, so
you can't guarantee a pick until twenty seven. Technically, it's like that just
dilutes your your best offers, which just gets really awkward. I'm not Bob,
I'm not advocating they should not be trading their own picks. I want
to I want to make that. I'm just curious whether that you know,
the new ownership group comes in and I think who were they led by again?
It was he sold the two? Was it Gabe Plotkin and Rick Snail?
I think it is so they come in, they take over as majority
owners. Do they want to make just sort of this glamorous big move.
I don't. I honestly don't know. I'll have to wait and find out.
But that is part of the ambiguity here as well. M Yeah,
new owner, the new owners splash never fails. Next team, the Chicago
Bulls. Morts Chicago Bulls. We ascribe ownership of the Bulls from more what
do you just there? I think everyone wanted them to burn it down this
hawseason, which is probably what they should have done. Nothing they did,
though, was actually unreasonable. I liked the Devon Carter addition, Tory Craig
is going to help them. The Voots deal is fine. I saw it.
I thought it said three years and like eighty million at first, not
sixty and it I was like, oh, like why did they do that?
But I was I misread it. The Kobe White deal, he had
a really good, like good part of last year, developed a lot as
a score. That deal is good. They stole I mean, I don't
assume were still got like three years, twenty one million, whatever it is.
They did not address really some of their biggest needs, which was additional
three point volume, additional playmaking, which is not something that Javon Carter really
brings, so'll help you more with your three point volume than anything. I
just they have been and I think bulls are for the most part, Bill's
fans are resigned to knowing they're not looking forward to this season. They're kind
of confused. Two, they would have blown it up, which I know
we used blow it up, and that's easier said than done. In this
case, it's just you could have gotten value for Zach Lavine, You could
have gotten something for Demarda Rosen an ounce crew, So there was a path
to starting over. You just chose not to do it while also conveniently ducking
attacks. Just I'm sure that was a pure accident. And so I just
look at this team and so much of what they done. They were like
they were worse than middling on offense last year. And this is with two
years running of Damarda Rosen just being thermonuclear af in these high stakes moments.
He's gonna be thirty four when next season ticks off. What does Vocha's learning
curve look like? Are we sure that this team, even when getting better
on paper, doesn't actually get worse because let's just say it, you can't
count on DeMar Demarda Rosen to be as good or as lights out on offense
as he has been over the past couple of years. And I think you
can point to, Okay, there's the Kobe White and development Ioda soud as
well, and then of course Patrick Williams is a swing piece. What type
of offensive agency usage volume whatever does he ever get up to given the current
makeup of this team. And this is another one where I think their path
forward is clearer than Charlotte's because you still have those If you start mentioning,
oh, you need to trade Lamello, I think it's too soon for that.
I just think he's too good. You don't put out a talent like
that. Chicago's path forward is just clearer in the sense of, yeah,
trades ac Levine and demard rozen like actually start rebuilding, like that's where you're
at now. And their appetite for doing the exact opposite, I think it's
trapped them just to where yeah, they could, I guess, get out
of it whatever they want. But I just I don't understand what's happening in
Chicago other than we want to be seventh. Yeah, I mean Chicago and
Toronto are basically the Spider Man meme right now, Like, what is the
long term plan here? I think Chicago is not giving away good players for
free just yet. That's that hasn't happened yet. But like Debarton Rosen is
gonna be a free agent next summer, I mean, are they going to
resign him? Is that the plan? And then the Angel Russell on the
Bulls and Demarta Rosen, like, la, what's happening here? I mean,
you know, Lonzo Ball has a twenty one point four million dollar player
option next summer. I imagine he's going to pick that up because he hasn't
played basketball in two years. Like, who's gonna get it him? I'm
sorry, what percentage chance do you give the Bulls actually using the disabled player
exception? Yeah? Me too, negative fifty. What they're like three million
below this hack line right now? There's no way. I mean, and
like to be fair, why would they because you're not whoever you're gonna sign
at this point is not going to make the difference, Like you just don't
have the high end talent to compete in the East with some of these other
teams. But like if Detroit at like the trade, I was like,
here's Monte Morris. That wouldn't interest you even look like, you know,
like they're you're a team that if you if you want to be the team
you're claiming to be because the Foots trade was such a home run for your
organization, like you should be willing to spend that. It's just they don't.
They're just like unique combination of incapable because they don't even have a pathway
as currently constructive if everything goes right to being excellent, not so long as
Lonzo Ball is not going to play. But like they also won't spend like
a flagship market organization either, and so it's just like they needed to make
the tough call. This is very like Wizards esque. This would feel like
it's going to be a deterioration here. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I
mean it does feel like their front office is just in like save face moment
as you brought up with them trying to justify the boot trade, which even
right now, like remove the two picks, one of which became Franz Wagner,
Like I think you would rather just have Wendel Carter Junior on his contract
than you would Booch on his even though bouches deal is perfectly fine, Like
you could argue Wendel Carter is has you have to play his best basketball and
is already better? Right, Yeah, Okay, I was gonna go there.
I wasn't sure if we're on the same page. Okay, yep,
yes, if not better, at least like the trajectories are going the opposite
direction. You'd much rather have Wendell Carter's trajectory than Vooch is no similar to
Charlotte in some sense. I feel bad for the Bulls because the Alonzo injury.
He was the connective piece and like that team was really really good that
first half of the season was he was healthy, and then he got hurt
and Caruso got hurt and it just all went to hell. And they,
you know, that's the problem is that they've had a season and a half
to figure this out and realize like, okay, this a Lonzo thing still
isn't getting better. They know he's you know, not likely to play in
next year as well, So I think, you know, they're clinging to
this idea. They're they're like a poor man's version of the Clippers. We're
like, oh, well, if just Kawai and Paul George would stay healthy.
We love our upsides, like well, Alonzo comes back at twenty four
twenty five and we resigned Rosen and Patrick Williams has this breakout like you could
sort of maybe see a road where the Bulls get into the top four or
five six in the East, but it would just take so many things breaking
right for them. Do Rosen play four games last year? Leaving played seventy
seven, Booch played Lady two, Patrick Williams played Lady two, Io played
eighty. They were pretty fortunate in the health department last year and still only
scuffled their way to forty and forty two. So what happens this year?
If Lavigne misses fifteen games, if de Rosen miss is fifteen games, I
agree with you. All of the offseason moves are good and made them better.
It's just I'm not sure what better gets them. I still don't see
them making it out. No, all right, cool, Maybe they should
be in the play in tournament, maybe they're top sixteen. I still don't
see them getting out of the first round though. Odd be with you,
where do you land on Patrick Williams specifically, and would you expect them to
try to lock him or would you expect them to lock him down on an
extension. He's a player whose value is so rooted in concept for much of
it, and it just makes it impossible to evaluate not just what the Bulls
should or would give him, but what he might get on the open market
next summer or the restricted free agent market next summer. Yeah. I mean,
it's hard to imagine that they would sign him to anything other than like
a pretty team friendly structure, Like I can't imagine they're giving him four years
one hundred million or anything in that ballpark. Like sure, if he does
like four years seventy, I bet they would do that because at that point,
when if the CAP's gonna be one hundred and fifty million next year,
like yeah, cool, that's fine. But other than that, I'm guessing
they probably try to low ball him. He bets on himself, and we'll
see, we'll see what happens. So I think all they had a good
offseason that really just doesn't move their needle or clarify their future, which is
just such a weird space to occupy. Yeah, yeah, I think that's
the exact right read on them. And you know, hopefully this season forces
their hand one way or the other. But again, we said that about
Toronto last year and it didn't. So you know, you just like what's
clear from the outside isn't always clear to the people inside the organization, especially
when their jobs are on the line. If you do, you have to
hit the blowtup button at some point. The Milwaukee Bucks generating really just no
buzz this summer. I think that, you know, they kept Chris middle
did and Brook Lopez. Lopez's salaries probably inflated, but it's only two years
and he just finished runner up to Defensive Player of the Year's game. Is
age exceptionally well Middleton, They're they're effectively when you look at Middleton's deal when
you honesty is currently expired and the Drew Holiday timeline, they're very much operating
on this like two maybe three year window, and everything they did fits perfectly
with that. They made two of the more not under the radar, but
probably like two of the best signings of the off season, regardless of what
you think about Jay Crowd or getting him back at the minimum while knowing that
he also has a clearer path two minutes this year is big and then Malik
Beasley. I still believe when he gets going, he could really sling it
and is not a very good facilitator, has the tools to be better on
defense than he is. Milwaukee doesn't need him do any of that stuff.
Like if he can get in there and just give them functional three point volume
on a reasonable percentage, that ends up being huge for them. And I
could see him being you know, we ask ourselves like who is the fifth
to their most used closing lineup, and like Malik Beasley has a chance,
Jake Crowder has a chance, bat Conaton has a chance. So to get
two guys in the minimum who have a chance and to not feel bad about
them having that chance, I think it's really big time. And the other
thing I think that we're not And when I say we, I just mean
in general that hasn't been talked about enough. Chris Middleton is so much time
last year, comes back, doesn't look right for most of his appearances and
really kind of turns a corner by the time the playoffs roll around. I
know that there's this conception it feels like he's been around forever, he's thirty
two, and like he's going you can just you know, with some of
these players, you can't just assume. We can't assume at this point that
Paul George and Kawhi Leonard play in more than thirty eight games together. We
have years worth of evidence to the contrary. With Chris Middleton, it's just
he's going to be better and more available ergo. Unless you're really concerned about
this Yannest knee procedure or the back stuff he dealt with in the playoffs,
they're going to be better. And so I feel like the question I want
to throw to you is, even if you don't think that the Bucks on
court product got a lot better, did their relative steadiness in an Eastern Conference
that is really going through it when you kind of look at around them,
like, is that relative steadiness a boom for their championship stock? I think
so. I mean, I guess they have a new coach so that you
know, they've got the same roster in place, but they'll have a new
system and we have to see what that looks like. I know some people
were just like totally out on Mike Budenholzer by the end of his tenure.
There tell even like halfway through the second round series where they won and then
eventually won his title. Like, had they not won that series, Mike
Budenholser probably would have gotten fired two years ago. So you know, there's
potential upside in the coaching change. I don't know. I agree with you
that the Bucks just feel overlooked, which is weird to say for a team
that won fifty eight game last year and has one of the two best players
in the world and jannisant Dakumpo. Like, it's just like Jannis got hurt,
they lose that first round series, and everyone's just out on the Bucks
again, even though we saw them win a championship with this core two years
ago. I don't get it, Like, I'm not convinced if Yannis doesn't
get hurt, like if Yanna stays healthy in that first round series, I'm
not convinced. We don't see Milwaukee in the finals, right, they win,
they win that series, certainly at least, and then what they played
the Knicks in the second round, that's, with all due respect, that's
probably a sweep or gentleman sweep. At worst, with all due respect,
they don't even get a game, is what you just said. Proceeds to
disrespect right correctly? Well, I mean what Drew Holiday is gonna lock up
Jalen Brunton. I mean, Julius Randol is gonna shoot thirty two percent from
the field with the honest rape ball over him the entire series like it just
a schematically terrible matchup for the Knicks. And then you know, Boston Milwaukee
would have been fun. But Boston routinely tried to shoot itself in the foot
last year. I imagine that would have happened again, and frankly, like
Milwaukee Denver finals would have been fascinating. I think Milwaukee very easily could have
won last year's championship. I yanas just stayed healthy in the play offs.
So you know, everyone is like rushing to crown Boston as the new title
favorite in the East because of the Porzingis trade, and I'm just still like
over here on Milwaukee Island, just like, if they stay healthy, why
not them? There's I mean, yeah, it's them to me, It's
just they would be my path find out the East. Right now, I
feel like people conflate inactivity or low profile moves as just regression, or they
at least conflate. Well look at that with they got better, and I'm
talking about Boston, where it's just like there should be a litany concerns there
where let's not even get to the cultural impact of trading Marcus Smart. And
if you can hear the massive rolling thunder behind me, I apologize. It's
just that you gave up playmaking, which you already needed by trading Marcus Smart.
And you also you forfeited some defensive versatility because Porzingis is not going to
have the same positional plasticity that Marcus Smart did and no one else on the
roster does, and in his absence, you know, you've kind of committed
to a more rigid defensive approach or you've just you've really amped up the responsibility
at both ends. For Jaylen Brown and Derek White specifically, are the two
names that I look at there, and whatever you mentioned, whatever's going on
with the Sixers. I think the Knicks are, you know, probably mostly
lateral unless you get a bunch of improvement from RJ or Quentin Grimes. I
like the DDV acquisition, but it's not someone who's going to crack their closing
units, so they're not materially different. The calves, I think, are
like when you're talking about who is most intriguing to come out of the East
right now, at this moment, knowing where Dame is not, which is
not in Miami. I gotta be like Cleveland and Milwaukee or like the teams
I gravitate towards the most here. Yeah, I would quick Cleveland in my
top three of the East right now. Miami will push them out if and
when they get Dame. But I mean, I just don't think you can
put the Sixers in that conversation because even if Harden stays again, what version
of hardon are you getting? And yeah, I mean there's yeah, I
know that, like Knicks fans are going to be furious, like we just
beat the cops. How can you say that? I just think the additions
of Strus and the Yang really address what they were missing last year, and
now you've got another year with this group together that they can build on.
So yeah, I mean I think I would still have Cleveland behind Boston just
because I mean Boston definitely had Wow. Yeah, Yeah, I love I
love the Boston Celtics, my favorite team. You know, bosses as the
best player in that series, and I think the way they would match up
like Milwaukee, I think presents some matchup challenges for Boston. And I think
you could honestly make the case that switching from Smart to port Zingis makes it
easier for Milwaukee to defend Boston than now, because yeah, you could play
I think regardless of whether Boston is kind of going with one big or two
bigs. If they're going with two bigs, I would argue they get a
lot easier to defend, Like maybe they could defend Milwaukee a little better.
But even I don't know, I'm with you on that is my point.
Yeah, I mean I still don't know who's defending Jannest like thirty eight year
old. Now Horford's not doing it anymore. Robert Williams maybe, but can
you trust him to stay health feed porzingis No, No, He's probably all
the three, he's the least equipped to defend right right, So there's no
really good option there. And now Middleton I think is the big swing piece.
As you said, like missed so much time last year, and even
when he was back, like guys were driving right at him in ways we
hadn't seen that, especially in that playoff series, Like Jimmy Butler is going
right at Chris Middleton in ways we have not seen in past years. So
if that's if that's just the new version of Chris Middleton, then yeah,
it's fair to be a little skeptical of the Buck style chances. But if
you're you know, you're thinking, Okay, he came off the knee injury.
Now he's you know, got a full a few months to recover,
like maybe he'll get back to something closer to his old self this year.
Yeah, I think I'm on Milwaukee being the East favorites right now as well.
Let's talk about their moves. Are not headlining moves that they made this
offseason, but they add Shake Milton to deepen the bench ropatient. They keep
Quiel Alexander Walker, They got Ripetorian Prince, which I think absolutely matters.
They extended Anthony Edwards, I think, and they paid Nasri. They bring
in Troy Brown, which I just he doesn't even begin to replace Torrian Prince
quite frankly, but Nah played a bunch of three last year, and I
think their biggest audition is going to be time and reps. Part of it
is, look they don't have when you look at their top four players,
they didn't have a lot of time together because of the Cat injury. Now
you factor Mike Conley into this, and then also the ill timed injury of
like a Jade McDaniels, and they've played a whopping seven games. They're projected
starting five and closing five together through the playoffs in regular season. And so
I look at the Timberwolves, the moves they make again on paper or marginal
I I like Shake Milton, I thought, now I played really well for
them, especially in some of those wing minutes. I think they will miss
Torrey and Prince. I just feel like they've been written off because of how
the narrative took hold of their team early last season, what it is surrounding
Cat of course, and then they didn't really help themselves in the playoffs.
They put up a real fight against Denver, but just like with the Rudy
Gobert, Kyle Anderson stuff, that took on a life of its own,
Jade McDaniels injuring himself. When you look at that team, and we can
focus on a lot of what they didn't do. But like I was wrong
about the D'Angelo Russell trade, I think Mike Conley ended up being great connected
tissue for them, and I missed on that I think I destroyed them not
only on this podcast but also in the br response that I didn't. And
then Andy Edwards is just that guy, like he is tracking towards all NBA
bids And I think if we were you were to build, like you have
to take this player for the next five years to build your team around.
There are maybe three to four to five guys at most you take over him
right now, maybe a little bit more. So he's in that conversation and
he just I know what he can do as a disruptor on defense, but
his just as a shop maker. He shot like thirty eight percent on step
back threes and as a passer, he's come such a long way. On
offense, Jade McDaniels improved on offense last year, as does as did nas
read the data when he plays alongside another big is not good. It's also
not enough data to say, oh, we can't work. So he his
four game was budding. Did over what Jade McDaniels was able to do an
addition to propping up strong, you know, three point clip on his volume.
And I just look at this team and I'm like, we need to
talk about the timber Wolves because I don't think that, you know, do
you believe in the three big set up moving forward at the price point.
I think it's fair to say no. But I also don't think that you
can say that we've seen enough to know it definitively does not work. And
given the trajectories of Anthy Edwards and Jade McDaniels and even sort of nas Read
and then just making the nice little okay we thought naw was sort of this
throw in at the trade dead, I'm like, no, this worked.
And the impact that Mike Commi has in the locker room and the offense,
and just having a capable backup point guard and Shake Milton, who you know,
does more for you than Jelen Noel, there's like a chance. And
this is with the caveat that I was very high on the timber was leading
into last season. Yeah, I feel like I'm somehow even higher on them
now than I was last summer after what we watched. And I'm just curious
as to where you land on these these Timberwolves. I was bullish on them
as well last summer. I thought they'd be at least a very good regular
season team. I had some questions about their playoff upside, but just figured
Gobert would be such a flow raiser. And as you said, you know
Cattle I plays twenty nine games, so it's you almost just have to throw
out last season. I think the two big questions for the Timberwolves. One
they have to extend Jaden McDaniels, right like, how much did they do
it for? But you just over under twenty five million dollars per year in
his next contract. Oh, I mean that's probably like right in that range.
I'm m I'm guessing slightly under if they can get him to agree,
but they might not be able to if they try to. You know,
if you go much lower than that, he's probably gonna say no. Again.
I think it comes down to him and his agent looking at the landscape
next summer. But heck, like, if the Sixers are having sixty million
dollars to throw around and they strike out on all the free agents, you
know they strike out on the top tier guys. Jay McDaniels is going to
look pretty attractive to them, So you know, I think he will have
suitors. And he's young enough that, you know, young teams that have
a lot of cap space, like if the Spurs are projected to have a
ton of cash space next time they're like they they should be taking swings on
restricted free agents. So also, who is shown more ball skills to date,
Jaden McDaniels or Ognaobi I started discussion. No, I think it's just
the right answer to that question. If anyone is watching, my power is
literally flickering other monster thunderstorm that is happening around me, so hopefully you can't
hear it. I think the Wolves are gonna be good. As my point,
I don't know if I would take it them for a top sport spot
in the West, but I think it's very foolish to write them off,
and maybe they go belly up to start the year, and we're talking about
some massive overhaul situations, mostly involving cat But I think they are there.
They have a strong chance to just be exceptional to where if you told me
they finished like third or fourth in the West. I mean, aside from
Denver and Phoenix. I don't think the West is founded around any sort of
certainties, and I think even people would argue that Phoenix isn't considered a certainty,
and so you have to I think you can put the Timberwolves. Yeah,
there's the burden of proof. It's like, do you want to loop
them in with the Warriors and the Lakers and the Clippers if they're healthy,
But you kind of have to. I feel like, and I think I'm
that much of a believer in one cat, who, by the way,
is just like a transcendent offensive player who has his defensive laws, and I
don't think you necessarily should have paired him with Rudy Gobert. He's an offense
like, he's offensive transcendence. He is a singularity at his position offensively.
And then that being that high on Jane McDaniels dan at the Edwards being that
wrong on my part about the Mike Conley addition, this Wolves team is it's
ready to make some noise, and if they don't, I'll eat crow,
and I think the front office is gonna eat Crow. And there there's gonna
be some heads that will roll before the trade deadline if we if we're twenty
games into the season or twenty five whatever, and they're just sort of like
floating around a whole bunch of nothing. Maybe they're maybe they're even playing really
poorly. There are gonna be some wholesale changes that are made. I just
honestly, my partition would be, I don't think they need them, because
I think they're going to be really good. Yeah, I think big concern
for them is a lot of teams in the West, on paper, got
better this offseason. You know, Phoenix obviously, the Lakers made very good
moves that should make them better, and they are already after the trade deadline
ain't much better team than they were prior to the trade deadline. No health,
if the Pelicans can stay healthy, if Zion stays healthy in particular,
like they Timberwolves and Pelicans at the same record last year, and that's what
Zion thing as sparingly as he did. You know, Dallas also had a
very good off season, so you know they just ye chet coming back,
and like even Houston, I mean, I don't know if Houston's going to
jump up into like the forty five wind range right away, but you know
they're going to be better. Like really, the Trailblazers and the Spurs are
probably the only two teams in the West that don't have at least realistic playing
aspirations this year, which means three teams are gonna miss out that I think
they shouldn't, or at least have realistic hope that they shouldn't. You know,
Utah probably falls out of that mix at some point just to protect their
own draft pick. So like, I think that's the concern from the Timberwolves
perspective is like did the West? Did the rest of the West get better
around them? And you know, injuries will inevitably happen, and one or
two teams that we think is gonna be good will fall down the standings.
But it's tentatively tough for me to see the Timberwolves in like the top four
or five, like maybe top six. But I feel like they're probably still
a playing team this year. I'm gonna predict they finished in the top six.
I'm not gonna go through the world. I think the only teams on
prepared to say that are definitively better or that I would say will be better
are the Warriors, the Suns, the Nuggets, and I might throw the
Pelicans. I'm a big believer in the Pelicans, So I'm gonna say they
finished in the top six. I don't even know who would like the fifth
team that I would pick. It wouldn't be Alice. I guess the Lakers
deserve to be there. There's just age thirty nine, Lebron Anthony Davis's health.
I honestly just don't know. I guess the Lakers would be my pick,
like to put like, those are the six teams then, and so
then I'm leaving off Dallas at that point, I'm leaving a Sacramento y hater.
I'd probably go Sacramento or LA Like, well, I think we'll fall
out of that top six, I'd probably let's I'm gonna predict that the Timberwls
going in the top six. I'm not I don't feel the least bit remorseful
for saying that Dallas or the Clippers won't to be honest or Memphis won't quite
fastly so like it's brutal, but I think that I think Minnesota is legit
before we scedaddle. Are there any other teams or something that we didn't touch
upon that you really wanted to talk about during these mega interesting active days of
MBA fandom? Sure? Yeah, So I wanted to get your opinion on
this because I feel like we've been having you know, we talks earlier about
hardened and the Lillard thing is still ongoing as well. Do you think it's
a problem for the NBA that we're seeing these trade requests where a guy specifically
demands to go to one team. I do, and I understand the both
sides is ms of it, where the players should do whatever they want to
do. But my issue comes into play when these actual one team trade requests
wind up like really dictating the market to where other teams are scared out of
bidding altogether. And so it's just what happened with OKAC just going after Paul
George anyway, even though everyone knew we wanted the Lakers or the Raptors going
after Kauai. I don't think teams are as emboldened to make those risks anymore.
And that's what sucks about this, because I think it's well within a
player's right to request a trade to try and dissuade teams from rating for them.
But if it's now reached a point where because they're doing this, and
we think these players wield so much power that even when they have four years
left on their contract, you're not actually going to fork over value to make
a realistic bidit them. Now you're not just dictating where you're dictating for how
much as well, And I think that's really problematic in large part. And
again I understand the player empowerment of it. I can't bring myself to care
about that side as much when we're talking about the five percent of the NBA,
when when we're speaking about player empowerment. And two, I think it's
more important that teams in these non glamor markets, however you want to say
it. I think it's important that the Thunder, that the Pelicans, that
the Raptors, that the Hornets, that these teams view themselves as being able
to go out and trade for these players because they know they're not. I
mean, no one's going to sign them into agency anymore, but you're not
going to let these preference who is dissuade you actually going after them and trying
to keep them again, especially when they're under a contract. Now, is
it different because Damian Lillard is so old and the number on his contract four
years, two hundred eight plus million, is borderline prohibitive where teams might not
view that as an asset. That's sort of an interesting wrinkle here. But
it even comes back to the Pascal Siakam stuff, where he's on an expiring
contract, so it's different, But I want teams who operate outside the lexicon
of player X wants to go to the Lakers, Clippers, Nix or Heat,
and it's really the Lakers, Clippers or Heat. At this point.
It feels like maybe Celtics you could throw in there, or one of the
New York teams. I want those teams to get involved on these sweepstakes and
the fact that it feels like they're not, and maybe the Damian Lillard stuff
smacks me in the face with it where he gets sent to New Orleans or
something, But just like I think that's the biggest problem for me. I
don't know where you land on that. And by the way, trade requests,
I don't want to say they're inherently a good thing, but they do
drive interest around a league that has built a lot of the intrigue around player
movement, and so there is value in having these trade requests. It's again,
when they're so limited is when it feels very problematic. Yeah, I'm
exactly in your camp. I ask because I have a please going live Forbes
about this tomorrow where I say it's like kind of a big problem. I
would say probably one of the bigger problems in the NBA right now, because
you know, for the team's going through this, like Blazers fans and Sixers
fans just want to pluck their eyeballs out right now, especially Sixers fans having
now gone through this twice in the last three years. You know, Ben
Simmons did not try to dictate his team. In fact, I believe at
one point he was like, I will play for any of the other twenty
nine teams, just not the Sixers. So it's slightly different there. We
need those trade requests more. I know. Another point here I agree with
you, like having the agents. You know, Dame's agent has come out
and said I'm telling teams not to trade for him, and it's clear that
Miami's offer as currently constructed is not good enough. Otherwise Portland would have already
said yes, And so they're trying to find a third team or fourth team
for Hero, which makes sense. But I'm with you, like I think
the happy medium is yeah, totally, you can request a trade. That's
great. I mean, there's something in the CBA that says you can get
fined if you, you know, publicly address it, even suspended, which
I think would be very funny to see, Like, we'll see how serious
the NBA gets about this, Like I don't think they're gonna suspend Damian Lillard
for this, but we'll see. But I think the problem of we're only
I only want to play for this one team. Great, you should have
just become a free agent. Like no one forced Damian Lillard to sign that
extension. No one forced James Harden to pick up the player option, but
again basically forced the Blazers to give him the extension. I won't I don't
feel bad for the Blazers are about that, but he actively sought it out
at least. And I'm sorry even interject, but I know where you sort
of land on a lot of the the morality issues outside of basketball. And
I'm curious how you feel when people say, well, like if this was
someone else who is in the workforce, they're going to try and maximize their
earning potential and still look for other jobs. I know how I feel about
it, where I just think it's insulting to compare what these players are making
to the middle class. But I'm just curious, how do you reckon like
the Devil's Advocate argument of well, why shouldn't players be allowed to do this?
And it's it's kind of just like one is the is the argument just
well, it's you can't compare the two. Or is it just because now
it's prohibiting teams from throwing their hats into the ring to actually get these players
anyway, that's when it's become problematic. Yeah, I mean, if NBA
players were at will employees, it could be fired and you know, given
two weeks notice and laid off and sure by all being go search for whatever
team you want to go to. But that's not the case. Like,
I worry that, especially with these one team trade requests, that these superstars
are basically just like negating the value of contracts, And I think it has
trickle down effects, you know that affect front offices and people like other players
on their teams, Like would Portland have traded for Jeremy Grant knowing that Dame
was going to ask out? Would they have resigned Jeremy Grant knowing that Dame
was going to ask out twelve hours later? You know, the Sixers right
now are in this weird limbo where they're like ten million under the second apron.
They have their full five million dollars tax perramid level exception. If they
didn't have to worry about what's going to happen with James Harden and how much
money are we taking out or taking back and sending out, they could theoretically
like maybe they signed Kelly Bray Junior or Christian Wood do a five million dollar
contract right now, But because they're in this limbo, they can't do that.
So, you know, like Superstars drive the league. I get it,
like they are you know, underpaid relative to their production, and I
am sympathetic to all of that, but like, this is the system you
agreed to. The CBA dictates the team can trade you. It's like why,
whoa what? What is it fair that they could be traded and they
can't ask for a trade because they agreed to it. If they like the
system, it's right the fight or you know, fight for the right to
be able to do that. But no, then I think, like my
bigger concern is just if Stars continue to do this one team thing, Like
at what point do owners start to get fed up and like do you start
running into you know, are they going to start trying to like go after
guaranteed contracts? Like are they gonna stop fully guaranteeing all contracts. Is like
the players bend over again like they did this past year in negotiation. But
you know that, like, what's the point You're you're you've got four years
left on your deal and you're telling me you want out, you only want
to go to this one team. Why am I even signing into the contract
in the first place. Yeah, And it's and again, I'm never someone
who's gonna side with necessarily the people who are owning the teams. But this
isn't just about the Blazers. It's about this idea that there's a more of
a competitive equilibrium in the league where you want. You want a team like
the Nuggets to exist. And they were unique because they gave their core time
and they never made like the ultra big swing. Aaron Gordon was like the
biggest trade acquisition they made. But like you want teams like, what if
teams starts stepping back from that where they don't even want to go after the
Aaron Gordon's of the world. You would want a team like the Nuggets who's
really good to feel emboldened to go after an A plus name if they have
the assets, if they feel or maybe it's an Okay, see, it
would be a perfect example if they feel like they're ready to compete. We
know that they don't feel that way, and so that's what I take issue
with is because the league at large, you want all these teams to have
the belief that they are operating on a somewhat equal playing field, because that's
what drives this entire fucking thing. And I believe the only path for them
to win a title or to compete with the heavyweights is to draft and develop
and then win within a very specific window before their own players start to request
out because they haven't won. Like it's just what are we doing here at
that point? And that's why I take personally take exception to this whole thing.
Yeah, okay, I'm glad when I get flamed tomorrow, I'm going
to refer people to this podcast as well so we can I can't ready to
retweet that before. I'm gonna blindly retweet it too. I'm gonna read it,
uh, and but I'm gonna retweet it first. You're gonna re exit
I think you mean or what is on Blue Sky resket? Yeah? Fuck
that? Oh my god, that just made me sad. I was,
I don't really want to go into this. Do you think though, based
off what's kind of happened with the new CBA and like these luxury tax aprons
in place, and this is sort of in response to the jail and Brown
Supermax, are we going to reach a point where the standard to give out
the superman is even higher internally? Because I think we're gonna see more situations
where the thirty fifth or fortieth best player in the NBA qualifies for supermax is
because of the all NBA eligibility requirements. So like these aprons teams are gonna
make, they are prohibitive, especially the second one, but teams are gonna
act like their taboo and so it's you forget these three star models. It
becomes almost prohibitive to have two players on thirty five percent maxes. And so
I'm just curious, is that like sort of the next unintended or maybe it
wasn't intended consequence by the owners of this CBA where it's you know, we
talk a lot. I do think the middle class is gonna get screwed kind
of like what Austin Rivers said, Like we saw like even a mid level
guy like Bruce Brown, he got paid for one guaranteed year. They're not
like Dylan Brooks getting the long term deal is just this anomaly. It's a
singularity, and so I do think middle class guys are gonna feel the ramifications
of this, But like, I also think we're gonna start to see like
the second year of Stars or whatever you want to call them, are gonna
eventually feel this squeeze. And I'm just curious as to whether you've given that
any thought. I didn't intend to ask. You talk about unintended consequence made
me think of that. Yeah, I mean, I thought Jalen Brown was
going to be an interesting test case for that, and I understand why Boston,
you know, gave him the full bag because of where they are in
terms of their championship window. But I'm sure, as you said, especially
with this all NBA, you know, the sixty five game requirement, like,
there are going to be some very funny names that qualify for Supermax's in
future years, and I can't wait to see what those negotiations are like,
because yeah, I don't think it should be automatic. I think max Is
in general were handed out to too many guys, which you know is just
the default expectation. If you're an All Star All NBA player, you're a
max player. You know. I think guys in recent years, like James
Harden's a perfect example, like, sorry, dude, you're just not as
you used to be, but you're not anymore. Do we see the older
stars get the big paid days that they used to under this new structure.
James Hardon feels like the perfect example where no, we're not going to pay
you that much into your mid thirties anymore because of how much it sort of
represses our flexibility underneath these aprons. Yeah, and like I'm wondering, I
thought that John Say Murray was an interesting test case because like the new extension
rules allowed him to sign for what he did, and you know, maybe
he could have made more in free agency next summer. There's no guarantee of
that, or maybe you know, Atlanta would have given him more just to
resign him next summer. But like, at what point is the money just
so big that guys are like, you know what, I don't need the
full three hundred million or next year when it's like three hundred and fifty million
or however much it might be, Like I'm good with two eighty What I'm
like, am I really going to miss that extra seventy million? And you
know, like if someone offered me seventy and that an extra seventy billion dollars
to do the same amount of work, of course I would take it.
But when you know when taking less is going to positively impact your team and
its ability to build a championship contender around you, I mean, we saw
it like back in the day with you know, the Tim Duncan Spurs with
the Heatles, when Lebron and Boss signed there, they signed for less than
the max even back then, and the money is astronomically higher than it is
now. I just I feel like we are going to reach an inflection point,
especially if the cap keeps going up ten percent every year, like you
know, some people are estimating, the money is just going to get so
ridiculous at some point that the first team that can successfully talk it starts into
taking now slightly less than the max, maybe thirty two percent instead of thirty
five, even thirty instead of thirty five. I think it's gonna be a
huge competitive and we're so next summer should be when we get our projected first
seventy million dollar player on the books right because Jalen Brown's final deal is projected
if the cap rises to be sixty nine million, I think, and like,
we don't know, like his deal could actually be two eighty eight instead
of three oh four based off the current projections. But if it's gonna rise,
like by the percentage or the scale which we think it will to the
next couple of years, I think our first seventy million dollars NBA players should
be on the books if he's already projected to be at sixty nine in the
final year of his current deal. Yeah, let me see, not only
will it be the first seventy million, it would be seventy million in the
fourth year, seventy one point four if the cap goes up by a full
ten percent each of the next two years, and then seventy six million dollars
and the final year. By the way, I know, people want us
to talk about it being a percentage of the cap, and Jalen Brown's deal
will never be worth more than thirty five percent of the cap. I think
that's important context. But you can't go about talking about it purely in those
terms because every team is spending differently, they're not just spending on if it
was if we had you can't go over the salary cap like if we had
that, okay, fine, But because Boston is going to have like a
two hundred million dollars payroll at some point or whatever, you know, sans
taxes, like you have to talk about it differently than you know, a
team that's below the salary cap floor giving out a third like you know what
I mean, Like that's why the raw dollar and the number of players who
are just making that money. So I don't think we're ever gonna shift entirely
towards Oh it's you know, the final year of Jalen Brown's deal right now,
it projects to be worth thirty three point two five percent of the cap,
and it's like, yeah, we could talk about that. I just
don't think. I think because of again, how do you frame that with
players who are not making maxes? And my team's payrolls in the summers are
constantly changing anyway, So even if you wanted to report it as Jalen Brown
is making x percent of Boston's payroll, that news might be outdated within thirty
seconds. Because they decided to signal shape or set or something. Yeah,
yeah, I mean you're totally right, and that's why you know we're gonna
we're gonna keep getting sticker shock every year moving forward. And it's important to
put that into perspective. I think, like the cap percentage is important to
be like, all right, this is what it is this year. That
same percentage two years ago would have been X, to like kind of give
the context of you know, if you're horrified by how much money this is,
well two years ago it would have been this. So I think that
is valuable context in that regard. But yeah, I mean it's still just
raw money. And at the end, then like again, if the cap
goes up ten percent, you know next so twenty four, twenty five and
then twenty five twenty six, you're starting at fifty seven point six million dollars
on this ten year supermacs and then you go up to sixty two point two,
sixty six point eight, seventy one point four, seventy six flat.
Like that's just I don't know, I like, what what do you even
do with that amount of money? I have no idea buy some board apes?
Oh please don't, that's terrible. You can do look I don't want
the money to go to the owners. I'm just saying, like it's natural
to get sticker shock in these situation, and I agree with you that we're
going to reach a point where players might decide. You know, we don't
always see billionaires operate this way, but the players, because like so much
of their legacy is tied to winning, they're just be like, well,
if I made sixty five instead of seventy five, like I could, I
could live with that. Like, yeah, we're absolutely going to reach that
point. Yeah, I'm curious when and who the first team is that gets
their team starts to buy into that, because it's I think that team is
just going to be set up so much better than these teams that are handing
out these three hundred plus million dollar contracts to guys who like probably shouldn't get
that much money, but they just don't have any other choice. Who is
so irreversibly loyal, Like Jannie would he be the first guy to do it?
Or yok I bet Yoki would. Yeah, Yoki doesn't get well,
Yoka is gonna be like they're an offer them a whatever's next, Connors be
a five year deals, Like I'd rather sign like you know, one plus
one. I'm not sure if I still want to be doing this. That's
right, that's right, Brian. This was great. We were gonna be
on Pace for under an eighty minute podcast, but I don't think we've yet
to record a podcast under ninety though. This might be our first sub ninety
podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. Can you tell our listeners
where they can find you and all the work that you're putting out at these
vast amounts of mediums. Sure, you can find me on Twitter for now,
at least at Beach Quark and Blue Sky. I think I'm like hopefully
going to just make the transition there full time at some point, and on
threads if anyone uses that. Still, I'm there. I'm not posting anything
because I don't get it, but I'm there as well. You can find
me as Dan mentioned the NBA podcast Wherever Podcasts of Founds. I'm at Forbes
writing about the Sixers and salary cap stuff, and at Liberty Fallers on Espnation
writing the Drip Drip, a steady Drip Drip Drip of James Harden trade non
updates. So if you like water torture, following me there as well.
I would like to say I want to be pesturing you once more in the
near future when we do the Sixers outlook, but depending on what happens with
the James Harden cycle, that could be a lot, so I won't say
it, so just rest it short. I'll be pesturing you again, thanks
so much, and I'll talk to you soon, of course, any time