What is crack blac and developed there one here a efforts. I am Dan
Valley canay et a very brief intro grant and I have I'm decided whether I'm
gonna put it out Monday or Tuesday, but to wrap up for every team
mail bag the Ladder Half the West. I actually thought it was of among
the pods that just him and I have recorded this year. I thought it
was probably one of my favorite pods that we did this this year, like
it's been one of my favorite pods, not just twenty twenty four, but
just this season cycle in general. I thought it was really good. So
I'm throwing you the It's about two hours long, so I figured i'd throw
a sneak preview, which is almost, you know, for some pods,
a close to full pod length. Over twenty minutes of talk with the Pelicans.
I thought, we you know, I really enjoyed the discussion at the
end about whether they're three point defense. That question was whether it's lucky or
not. I thought it was a really fair good discussion. People on YouTube
dissy read, I don't think they watched the whole video because we did nothing
but praise the Pelicans defense or at least I did for half of THEO.
But again, I'm I'm actually really excited to put this one out. It's
just a basic now bag, but we had a lot of fun recording it.
So I hope you enjoy the stippet of the Pelicans, which I think
we did twenty plus minutes on and yes, until next time if you have
to shout out to the one, the only the indelible Herb Jones is the
Pelicans thing. But also Frank Nila, we got the Pelicans next. How
do you say it? The Pelicans remain my kink. That's what it's become
on this the Pelicans. Oh man, how do you want to approach this?
We have several questions, but I know there was a particular topic you
wanted to get into with them. So do you want to just like just
go to the shooting and the defense or do you want me to run down
a list of questions for you? They have, so I think we should
go to do we have two that kind of stepped on the toes of each
other or no? It was a let's I think some of these can be
a little bit quicker, So Peto, let's go. Let's start with Peto's
one, all right, So Peter asks, take your best shot at trying
to understand who this team should be. A point Zion central team, ABI
central team. Can Zion and Brandon Ingram actually coexist? Should they be a
defense or offense oriented team? So I think that's a great question. I
do think they can coexist. But I think if you're not going to have
them running pick and rolls with each other, then you need to get just
a ton of stretch around them in the form of just raw three point shooting
and maybe another twitchy off the dribble three point threat, or there needs to
be that vertical spacer guy who's also a really good rim protector, because,
like I think that's the way to compliment them or to maximize the talent around
them. I do think the best version of this team is with either point
Zion, just because but he's just he's functionally more limiting when he doesn't have
the ball than Brandon Ingram is, especially if you're not going to use him
as the primary screener. That's just where I'm at with that. However,
I would also say, and maybe this is the I don't even know if
this is controversial, it's either the best version of this team is either with
point Zion or point this player isn't on the team yet, And I'm not
go ahead, No, I was gonna say That's what I was gonna ask
you, was because I I'm I'm at least tempted to go along with like
it should be point Zion that needs to be like the foundation of your team
is CJ. McCollum on that team? Like is he? Is that what
you want at that position? Or do you need like a Herb Jones that
can also drive and handle them? You know what I mean? Like because
McCall because if you're gonna do the Zion at the point thing and maybe like
what's that gonna do for your defensive matchups? It puts McCollum in tough positions.
It's kind of like we talked about with Dallas and how Luca is at
a position where you want him to guard like a three to four, that's
a tough matchup. Usually you got to like move things around. H If
it's not McCollum, who is it? Can it be McCollum, Like because
that obviously the stretchy big and the rim protecting big Like yeah, yeah,
we said that forever, Miles Turner on and on. Uh, is McCollum
the right point guard for that or whatever whatever? If he's not the point
guard, is McCollum the right guy at like what would otherwise be the one
going forward? And that's just the look you're talking about. And he's so
good that it's been so good this year and you have to credit him for
really juicing up his three point more. Yeah, Trey Murphy coming on ends
up being a big deal for them, So maybe you have just but look,
if you told me this team came out of the West, it wouldn't
surprise me. I do think ultimately and this will get it. So the
offense or defense? Should they be an offensive defense team? I actually think
because of how imperfect they can be on offense, it makes sense that it
doesn't make sense when you're looking at their personnel, Like this current team I
think needs to actually hang its hat on defense. But like, if you're
building out future iterations just because of who your best player is gonna be,
whether it's Zion or whether it's Ingram in that like and even though like having
like, I think I think it's probably leaning offense first, Like that's what
if you're making new additions, I'm catering to the offense. But we'll get
into that because we have another defensive question. So yeah, I think the
other thing with what you mentioned looming over all this is it might be point
Zion, but you have to ask yourself, is he healthy enough? Will
his prime last long enough to lean all the way into that? Yeah?
I mean I guess that that hangs over everything. So because like if you
build a point Zion team that is a specific ass team with like guys that
are gonna, you know, have really certain jobs that'll be different than they'd
be on like a quote unquote normally constructed team. Yeah, and then if
if the guy that's at the center of all that is like maybe not going
to hold up or is gonna miss time or have conditioning issues or whatever,
which, for the time being like pretty good stretch on that front for Zion,
But like it's so precarious to build like an unusual roster around an unusual
player. If he's not there, like, then what the hell is this
team? Like things don't make sense anymore. You kind of almost have to
build like a totally different like second you I don't know, there's risk there,
But it's like I think I still think that like putting the ball on
Zion's hands unlesson until he becomes like a great off ball cutter or a shooter,
Like that's just the way it's got to go, right, Like,
I don't know what else you really do to maximize the talent, And I
do think that the two can coexist, and they might look they're doing it
right now. I mean, like the numbers they're they're starting lineup numbers have
started to turn, and I think it's probably about futzing and fiddling one on
the margins. But there is a case to be made that if you are
trying to really improve your offensive ceiling or maybe even playoff, we have to
see what their playoff offense looks like. If you want to playoff proof of
your offense or create more chemistry, the glue tying all that together probably isn't
on the team yet if that's the route you want to go, Yeah,
okay, So next question here from Yankees Man seventy seven. Pelican's going to
make a move this summer to bring in an center either by trade or free
agent or are they gonna sign Yonis Valentuna soon new deal if not, so
they move on from him. Who do you see as not the new starting
five next de zion bi for next season? Like what's what's it look like?
I guess focusing on the center position, Like what do you think they
should do? What can they do? What would you like them to do?
I think so they're like twelve and a half thirteen million dollars under the
tax without accounting for Jonas Valenciunas next contract, and so you could say,
right, well, if you just plug in, maybe that's the number he
gets he's earning. What's he at this year? I mean that would be
a pay cut, so you would think that he would have more. And
you're also in that point that doesn't include a new contract for Jose Alvarado if
they want to go that route with him. Naji Marshall gonna have a first
round draft pick too, right, Well, no, so the estimate for
this is like it has the Lakers draft pick in there. I think they
have the right to defer it. So I mean you could save some money
there, yeah, which they probably will for it, just because that could
save him like four million bucks. But my point being, you don't have
money to spend on a big wig Center. So I would just keep Yonas
Valentunis or try and work out a unless you have another trade lined up.
But you don't have all this expendable matching salary necessarily unless you if U s
J. McCollum as expendable, sure you have Larry Nance, maybe you're willing
to go you can get to numbers where it's like, oh, if you're
step ladder with Nance and Dice and Daniels, I think the safest course would
be to figure out a way to keep Jonas Valentiunis and then that'll, you
know, will this team pay the tax? You have to ask yourself that
if you're gonna make another splash at Center, if you let Jonas Valentiunis walk,
I don't know who the free agent, like, you don't have the
money to go after Isaiah Hert Andstein, who would be an interesting fit here,
you know? And then there's just like there's not a ton of talented
Yeah, Nick Claxton would be kind of interesting. There'd be spacing limitations there
though. You can't afford him either. So you're looking at You're looking at
like, oh, Daniel Tice, like could we get him? And so
if you're gonna upgrade the center position or make him materially different, it has
to happen on the trade market when I go through, Like you can come
up with names, and I know a lot of Wolves fans love the Jared
Allen idea, and maybe the Cavs get to a point where they want to
move off one of their bigs. I will say I kind of consider vertical
spacing overrated in this context. I don't know how you feel about that to
where I prefer, Yes, I want a big who protects the rimman stretches
the floor. But just like if I'm going to really give up a lot
of assets for this team, it has to be for that big. And
yes they're rare, borderline non existent. I like Jared Allen works, and
especially at his numbers, so maybe it's like, well, we're giving up
this equity and he's so cheap for the next couple of years relative to what
players of his caliber would make. But like I just there's not a name
out there, like it's the idea. It's like Miles Turner as concept and
like been there, done that type deal. So and they might just I
think a lot of what happens in the playoffs will probably inform what they try,
because you could convince me that they enter the offseason with the priority of
we need like a real floor general any year rather than like focusing on the
five spot depending on how the postseason unfold. And so I don't have a
great I feel bet not having a great answer to who should they go after
at the center position. But if they do anything, I'm assuming it's just
gonna happen on the trade market, and I just don't there's no name.
I don't know if you can think of a name that brings to mind,
like maybe Dallas, would we want to trade one of their bigs? Like
are they gonna trade you maxally Kliba. And he's also just not the thirty
five minute per game answer either thirty minute per game answer. I think it's
telling that you got to Daniel Tyss's name real quick in the list of options.
So whether they can afford in free agency as well, it's a bare
okay, So this is where we really got to get to. This has
been the topic I don't know, not du jour, but like of the
last couple of weeks around NBA NERD circles and Pelicans circles, particularly from this
is from Trey Real Stroker Murphy. How does the Pelicans three point defense work?
It can't be just luck that their opponents have consistently the worst three point
percentage for two straight seasons while they also give up the most three point attempts.
What's going on? I wrote about this today for something else. I've
been listening to a lot of discussions about it. We got to talk about
this. Oh, you wrote about it. Did you want to take it?
Then? No? It's all your notes are very similar. I mean,
I'm the cynic and I am my kink is not the Pelicans. So
I feel like I'm just a little a little bit more down on them than
you, And I trust in a lot of smarter people than me who have
essentially said, you know, there are some things you can do as a
defense to limit three point accuracy of your opponents, one of the main ones
being make sure really good shooters do not take those threes, and one of
the other ones being try not to allow really wide open threes the Pelicans.
The deep dives in the data just suggest that like some of that might be
happening, and the two year window where it's this is happening two years in
a row now is persuasive just because it grows the size of the sample,
so you can't dismiss it as small sample. Look as I still think it's
mostly luck. I still think if opponents are missing wide open threes more often
against you than against any other team, odds are you're lucky. And it's
not like you haven't figured out how to play like you don't. Willie Green's
a good coach. I don't know if he has schooled the team on defensive
telepathy, Like I don't think that's a thing. So part of it I
said I wasn't gonna take over this thing. But like, I think part
of it is that maybe some of the numbers we have are not accounting for,
like the length of the Pelicans roster, Like maybe wide open shots are
not as wide open if it's Trey Murphy or brandon Ingram or Herb Jones closing
out against you with like nine foot wingspans. But I skew more towards the
Pelicans have been lucky defensively, and I think their defense will be will regress
as opponents make threes that expected rates. So take that where you want.
If you're looking at three point devents specifically and say they've been lucky, but
I think the way that they are able to get set is like a big
part of why their defense is maybe overachieved relative to personnel. There's luck involved
with the three point I mean you mentioned it, like their opponents aretooting thirty
six percent on wide open threes. That's by far and away the lowest mark
in the league. You can say they're selective about who gives them up,
but when you go back and watch what I do think you already mentioned the
length thing and the contest stuff is right, but there are two things that
stand out to me. Is the level of pressure they're able to put on
because they navigate screens and so they're within proximity of these shot takers that they're
going to have these where maybe it's classified as open, but because of the
wingspans of some of these guys that it's actually not six plus feet. The
other thing for me, only the heat and the bulls are better at forcing
opponents to take threes later in the shot clock, so seven seconds or less
remaining on the shot clock. Statistically speaking, those shot percentages on average are
going to be lower than if they're coming up, because the reason you're taking
shots early under the shot clock is you're open to the Pulgus might give up
a lot of wide open threes, but if you're also forcing opponents to defend
deep into the shot clock, how many of those threes are grenades? Two
shooters. You mentioned this at the top, they're not very good, and
so I think that's been a big deal about their defense, which comes back
to one getting set the fact that they're able to fight. And you have
guys like Herb Jones, you have guys like Craig Murphy, you even have
just like and I think this has been the other thing that I noticed is
brand Ingram has gotten better defensively. I think he's been smarter with his closeouts,
He's been able to shoot better gaps, smarter with his help and I
think that's where the Pelicans have And I did not dig into the data on
this, so I didn't look at like what's happening from the corners. But
when you look at like with CJ. McCullum and Brandon Ingram have done as
helpers when they are in the corners, and maybe even Zion Williamson at points
they've been able to like pick and choose where they're gonna put the ball pressure,
and if you trust those guys to close out, or if you're helping
off of the right shooters, I think that adds the element of Okay,
we're actually helping deflate this three point percentage by design. I say all this
knowing we saw it with the Knicks a couple of years ago. That stuff
will normalize. There's luck here, there's absolutely luck here. But I don't
think like if you look at the Pelicans defense as a whole, and a
lot of what I said applies to I think their overall defense, because take
three point pointers out of the equation, only the Bulls have opponents taking a
larger share of their overall shots inside seven seconds of the shot clock. That's
a big deal, I would say. And so it's their ability to get
set, which that comes back to their offense, but also just a commitment
to getting back in transition, which they've for the most part consistently had under
Willie Green. All that stuff makes a big difference. And so if you
want to say the Pelicans three point defense has been more luck than not,
I will concede that. But I do think they've done things that go into
it. As a larger point, I don't think their overall defensive standing is
completely founded around luck. I know it looks wonky because of the personnel,
but I think that they have done things to earn what are they like sixth
right now in points lab the possession or wherever it is. So that's where
I'm at with the Pelicans defense, and it's why, I mean, it's
one of the many reasons why they are my kink, because even their offensive
imperfections or the Knights where it's look, they're going through a kind of a
mini tear right now. They've beat up on some inferior opponents, like we've
seen stretches where those don't kind of just deviate from what's working and it doesn't
make sense. But you can still almost trust them to refine their peak or
to tread water because their defense has been so good. And I think too,
like it's kind of exciting to think about because like their process, at
least in terms of just the shots they allow, goes against conventional wisdom because
like in terms of what are the pillars of a good defense. Typically right
now in the NBA, it's like, don't let opponents shoot threes, like,
just don't do that, Like that's the bucks under Buttonholzer, like that
was their whole thing. We funnel everything to the middle. We let the
big guys deal with it. Typically, I correct me if I'm wrong.
I think, just as a broad generalization, the best defense is limit opponent
three point attempt frequency. The Pelicans don't do that. Well, it's interesting
to think that, like conventional wisdom is only right until it isn't, And
at some point we could be in an era where like it's actually okay to
let opponents shoot a bunch of threes as long as you get really good at
you know, contesting and letting the wrong guys making sure the wrong slash right
guys are shooting those threes. It's fun to think about the Pelicans maybe being
on like the vanguard of something because it's two years now, so like that
has to at least get your attention a little bit. I'm just playing Devil's
advocate. But well, that's the interesting side of this to me, is
that it goes against like normal good defensive process. Well, I think you're
touching on a trend too. I mean, this isn't I'm talking about just
this season So if you go through the teams that are the best at limiting
opponent three point attempts, I'll read them off to you. I'll read you
the top five and you guess how many top ten defenses are in there.
Indiana, Denver, Detroit, Washington, Portland followed by San Antonio. Interest
out right, bad defense is like pretty much across the board. Denver Tennis.
Yeah, and is not even in They're not in the top ten of
defense this year, right. You wonder though, is that the defense limiting
threes or is that the defense being so bad that teams get all the way
to the basket, which is what they want to do anyway, Like I
don't you know what I mean, Like it can't it could be that too.
Look to be fair, So like Minnesota is seventh, Cleveland is eighth,
or Milwaukee's ninth, Orlando is tenth, and so it's like, okay,
there is some pretty good defenses there. But it's just funny that of
the top five teams, even top six, just because Portland was so close
to being in the top like they were basically dead. Even of the top
six teams that are great at limiting opponent three point attempts, there's one top
ten defense and it's Denvers. Yeah. You know what The unfortunate part about
this is what it reveals is that you can't just look at the number and
conclude that the Pelicans are a good or bad defense or are lucky because all
those teams you just mentioned, like you can't. I guess I'm just you
have to watch what they do, like what kinds of threes are. It's
like that just makes it harder to study defense. This happened earlier in the
season where it's of the games I caught. It was like someone had said
in our discord, I apologize, I can't remember that CG. McCom was
having a fantastic defensive season and you look at some of the counting numbers of
what he's doing seals, it's like okay, And then I was just like,
eh, like I haven't seen it. But then you go back to
kind of watching the possessions that he's not involved in yah directly, and it's
oh, okay, it's like they are the That's that was a great way
to frame It's like this is the team that you have to watch them to
defend to understand why this is happening. Beyond luck, but I do have
to concede just because we've seen it play out. I'm going to default the
history with you. I think the three point stuff is probably more lucky than
not. But I will say relative to like what the Knicks did, like
during the early TIBs days, it does feel like more than the typical Jedi
defense, the Pelicans are doing things to actually affect what's going on here.
Yes, I think I think that's Yeah. I don't think it's all luck.
I think it's mostly luck, and I think the part that is luck
is really worth paying attention to, like how aggressively they rotate and how much
they just always have a body at the nail, so you can't drive.
You have to swing, swing, swing, and hope they fuck up a
rotation and then you get your wide open three. But to your point,
maybe that's like eight passes into the possession and the shot clocks at five,
and that's a harder shot. The amount of work it takes to get them
in rotation because of the way they're able to navigate screens,