I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis. And this is safe word. Safe
word is like sex therapy unhinged because instead of being a blank slate that's just
here to support you, we're serving up the details on our own sex lives,
relationships, identities, and more. This isn't sex and it's not therapy,
but we are sex therapists and what you hear today may excite you.
Each week we tackle a theme related to sex, relationships, gender and more.
This week we're diving into masturbation. M I miss you, Camille,
I miss you. I feel like I've fairly seen I know it thought each
other when you were in La. Yeah, that was a long time ago.
And we're just having like a very soft warm up back into seeing each
other by sharing our deepest masturbation secrets and moments. Of course, that's on
car for the course. What does this topic make you think about? Oh?
I think only good things. I love masturbation and it's one of my
favorite things to talk about with clients too, and it's also one of my
go to is. Whenever I'm talking to other therapists about what they should talk
to their clients about, I'm always like, what about masturbation? When I'm
feeling stuck with a client, I'm like, have I talked about masturbation yet?
It excites me? I love it. I'm a big fan. I'm
just picturing your superviss like having a client with like some issue that is totally
unrelated to masturbation, and your feedback is did you go over masturbation? Though?
Definitely? I'm like, well, what about self pleasure? And they're
like, yeah, we're talking about trauma. I'm like, it's related.
I mean, it is related. I didn't get to that, speaking of
which, I don't know that. I only think about good things. I
get anxious. I feel anxious into this episode a little bit. I feel
like confident teaching people about masturbation, but I feel like a beginner. I
must have been masturbating for ten years and I still feel like it's fraught for
me. And I'm sure as we go through these questions some of that will
come to the surface. Definitely, I think that that's a really common story,
and May is masturbation month masturbation. May. I'm really excited to dive
in, but I think that your experience is definitely a common one. I
do have a story. Oh yeah, a story about how like a week
ago, two weeks ago, I weaponized masturbation and was a horrible partner.
And so I want to get your thoughts on this. I don't believe I
think about you. Okay, let's go. Okay, So Mal, my
girlfriend and I we wake up in the morning. We'd tend to have a
lot of morning sex, and on this particular morning, she was too busy.
She had a morning meeting, and so she was really sad and really
sad that we could have sex. So she was going to the bathroom to
take her shower, and I was like, hey, Mal, can you
bring me my vibrator? And she was so sad. She was like,
you know, fake sad, because she really supports me masturbating whenever it wants
to know about it. But she was like, how can you ask me
for your vibrator when you know I want to be having sex with you and
I can't be having sex with you because I've got this meeting. So then,
of course, in true like queer relationship fashion, we you know,
she probably canceled her meeting so that we could process this for like an hour
in a better place. Now, I just like, literally wasn't considering how
she would feel about it at all, and she's so supportive, so it's
not about her being like anti me masturbating or anything like that. But it
was a moment of like, yeah, I mean this brings up emotions for
everybody, even when we feel like we're being neutral about it. This can
be a tricky topic. Wait, I'm wondering what makes do you feel like
that made you a terrible partner? That was a massive exaggeration. I don't
feel like a bad partner at all. I think I'm a pretty good partner.
But I think I like to think of myself as somebody that is like
always deeply attuned. And it was a moment where I like totally missed it
and probably was harder on myself than I should have been. Yeah, because
I feel like you were deeply attuned. You were just deeply attuned to you
and in a moment, So okay, okay, I like that framework up.
She probably would agree with that too. As I said, I think
this just makes me anxious, and I'm also so ready to believe that I'm
doing something wrong, even though I've worked so hard around the shame about masturbation.
It's like, yeah, I'm so ready to believe that I'm still doing
something that makes me. You know, I think, based on the questions
we're getting, I'm not the only one. I feel like I've been masturbating
since I was a kid. I have no idea what age. It's interesting
because I used to just purely masturbate by like humping blankets or pillows from the
jump, And I remember I would go to Chicago in the summer and go
to my cousin's house, and her and her mom like had all of the
cable and so when everybody was asleep, I would like sneak into the living
room and watch like Showtime, skin a Max or whatever, and I would
be like, oh my god, this is like the best thing ever.
That was my main mode of masturbation, and it is very, very reliable.
I actually didn't end up buying a vibrator until well into my twenties because
I was like, I don't need one. I just like scrunch up the
blankets and turn onto my stomach and just like go to work. Thirty seconds
later, I'm good. I was very much of the mindset that I didn't
need any sort of toy. Maybe there was some shame wrapped up in that.
I don't know. But when I bought my first vibrator, Cinderella,
now I love it. Now. I love all types of toys and all
types of like self pleasure and play. You know, I've never done like
the shower head. Everybody's always talking about the shower head. Yeah, but
also in like a bath that has those jacuzi jacuzi little bubble things, like,
oh my gosh, people are obsessed with those. I can't relate to
that though, I mean either. And also watching like a bunch of like
lesbian porn and being like I'm straight, huh, okay, you were.
You were a really resourceful kid, Oh for sure, so resourceful. Yeah.
Or like if I'd stayed home for like a sick day and there was
a movie with like a small erotic scene, this is like maybe VHS pause
rewind. I was like all about it, like very small tangent. I
just watched Brokeback Mountain again for the first time in like fifteen years, and
it was bringing me back to when I had a sick day. I was
like engineer high, I like had my parents pay for Brokeback Mountain and like
that's what I watched and I remember one of my parents being like, did
somebody rent Brokeback Mountains, like you know, two thousand and three. I
don't know. I was like, yeah, me, and like nobody thought
twice about that, Like nobody thought twice. I'm sure I was masturbating back.
I don't even know, but yeah, the movies, the movies that
we would watch, and you know, because we would have to buy them,
our parents would always always Oh. Another memory is coming up, is
I used to think that I could get pregnant from masturbating. I don't think.
I don't even think that's so uncommon, like this shitty sex. Of
course you would think that because you know, sex kills and gets you pregnant
and that's all it does. Yep. Oh god. I'd be like,
oh my god, I hope I get my period this month, Like,
yeah, you're you're really not? Oh my god, that's not sometimes,
yeah it was. God, the things we have to live with and be
afraid of that are so fucking far from true. Speaking of first question,
can you damage your body from masturbating too much? Oh? This question makes
me sad. Yeah, this is one of those things that also I feel
like there's going to be a lot of shame in today's episode. This is
totally like a myth that I think that we are told that keeps us from
enjoying pleasure. And it's like, if you do this too much, you're
going to damage your nerves on your clitteris or you won't be able to feel
any other type of sensation if you have a penis, And so I think
that short answer, no, I don't believe. So what do you think?
Yeah, No, any way that you touch your body or someone else's
body, if you do it in an extreme enough way, sure you can
hurt somebody, but that's not specific to masturbation. Think the like follow up
question I often get here is if I masturbate too much, will I not
be able to experience pleasure with a partner? I mean generally no, And
we'll see has come up in these other questions that if you are always masturbating
in the exact same way, at the exact same pace, at the exact
same pressure, in the exact same context, and then you go have sex
with a partner in a different place, with a different kind of touch and
in a different context, then yeah, it may not translate over. That
doesn't mean masturbation has you quote unquote ruined you. It just means you need
to widen your repertoire while masturbating so that when you go to have partnered sex
there's room to incorporate some new sensations. That's such a good point to Your
body gets used to certain sensations, and that is definitely a message. Right.
The more that you get to know yourself and your own body, the
more you can communicate that with your partner. As we talked about in our
first episode, I really struggled to have orgasms with partners. But my knowledge
of myself and my body helps me advocate for it more and helps me achieve
it better. Also, this is going to be a plug for all my
short kings out there. I used to only fuck with tall dudes, and
recently I've been messing with the short guys and they're like committed to the cause
you heard it here. I thought you were going to plug something professional,
but no love for st Yeah yeah, yeah, perfect. A little bit
of a note on washing toys because and this is like actually a confession I
feel a lot of shame about I will use a toy and I'm tired,
right, I've just orgasmed. I'm exhausted. I'm not about to get out
of bed and clean my toy. It's not happening. So I like,
Holly, commit to tomorrow, I'm going to clean it. Yeah, tomorrow.
I'm not horny anymore. I'm not thinking about my toys. I don't
clean it. Days go by, weeks go by. Now I'm horny again.
I don't want to clean it because I want to masturbate. So here
I am using a toy that I haven't cleaned, and then you know,
two days later, I have a yeast infection. So learn from my mistakes.
I'm still trying to learn from my mistakes. It is important to clean
your toys. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but
it is. And I also am not the worst. I'm not very good
at this or going to the bathroom after yeah, because it's like especially if
I'm masturbating right before bed. My justification is that sometimes I need a little
bit of like more indirect stimulation, so I will like use my toy over
my underwear and so then I'm like, you don't need to clean that.
Yeah, probably should though, But onto this next question. I want to
learn how to masturbate with my hands, but I always just go for the
vibe. Any thoughts or recommendations for this person. We've talked about this a
little bit in episode one, where I think both you and I Camille were
like, we don't have time for our hands. We just don't have time.
So I mean, I think there are lots of reasons why people might
feel this way. One is, yeah, sometimes a vibrator is just more
effective. Sometimes a vibrator leads to a more intense orgasm. Sometimes when you've
been using a vibrator for your whole life, you just have a little bit
more confidence about how to use it. It feels more comfortable, So that
can very much be part of it. I do think that sometimes, and
this was for a long time true for me, there can be a deeper
layer of like when you are touching your own hands, to your own genitalia
or wherever it is that you like to touch, it can feel really deeply
intimate, and it can bring up shame in ways that sometimes using a toy
doesn't. You're becoming very familiar with the sensations of your body, your own
wetness, your own pubic hair. Perhaps so depending on how you feel about
your body what you've been raised to believe about masturbation. I do think it's
worth asking the question, is it about efficiency and comfort or is there maybe
more to this story? For me? That's a really good point. I've
never been the person who goes for her hands. And also like I have
point to acrylic nails, which isn't great especially for like internal simulation. Also,
I feel like it makes me appear super straight working on that. I
think also i'd be curious for this person is what is the emphasis or the
desire to learn how to do it with your hands? And is it okay
if you prefer vibrators, is it okay if you prefer different types of toys,
different types of touch and stimulation. And also that masturbation is an exploratory
thing forever, and so it doesn't have to be like this is the only
way that you do it forever. This is how I prefer to do it
now, and this is most efficient for me. And maybe when I have
time and I have like you know, a Friday afternoon and no meetings,
I can just kind of like play around a bit without the goal being I
need to come. That's an amazing point. If you're somebody that is able
to orgasm with a vibrator, but you're struggling to orgasm with a partner,
and that's something that's important to you. This might be something to look at
like if you're only ever coming from a vibrator. For me, like,
one of the ways that I made my transition from only masturbating with a vibrator,
never masturbating with a partner, to being able to masturbate from the touch
of a partner was getting comfortable with my own hands and my own touch and
getting my body familiar with a little bit less intensity than a vibrator can offer,
and that helped my transition over again, that's only because masturbating from my
partner's touch was really important to me, and that is not necessarily true for
everybody. Yeah, now I have a homework assign I was kind of thinking
that I didn't want to say it explicitly, but for the try. Oh
man, you're gonna bench Cinderella. Okay, she will always be there for
you, Thank God. Okay, what do you think about this? When
strategies to change up a seemingly boring routine. This is also one of my
favorite things to talk about with clients is figuring out what about it feels routine
to them, And I think that there's like something really important about routine.
I think that it can be feel like ritual, it can feel like grounding,
and I think that switching it up can be really helpful to get to
know different parts of you. So I typically masturbate at night with porn right
before bed, but like a few weeks ago, I was masturbating, like
on the couch in the middle of the day, and I was like,
look at me, like I was feeling, like really, I was feeling
myself in that moment. So I think that even that allows you to get
more in touch with yourself, and it also allows you to be a little
bit more creative with partners. You might be used to having sex at the
same time and doing the same positions or whatever for your own self pleasure.
You can realize, wow, I'm I'm stressed, or I'm horny, or
I'm bored before I get out of bed in the morning, in the afternoon,
between meetings, like all of these things are super valid, And so
the strategy here would be just to make it part of your goal, Like
I want to switch up my masturbation routine one time this week or this month.
I love that, Like, it doesn't have to be every day I'm
doing a different thing. Even if I tried the one thing that's new this
month, that's enough. I totally agree. Like shifting the scenery is so
huge, shifting the time of day. I like recently got into maserating in
the shower standing up. That's a really interesting experience. I also think,
like, if you're always masturbating on your back, try masturbating on your stomach.
Try Camille's blanket technique, right, Like, try masurating on different things.
Oh yeah. The other thing that I got so curious about recently and
was kind of fun, is like what if I don't touch myself at all?
And I literally just tappened my breath and my pelvic floor. That was
a wild experience that made me feel like I had a superpower. That's after
a lot of reading about how to do that. Okay, you're gonna have
to share a couple of those tips. Don't just tell us that you have
the information. I can try. I can try. Okay, I'm opening
the opening the gates for you. Okay, Well, do you know what
a keigle is? Yeah? Every time you hear the word keigle, you
do one. I was going to say, should we do a couple right
now? Yeah, we're talking, Okay. Do you feel how it kind
of starts to activate your clitteris? Yeah, it like kind of starts to
turn you on. Right, You're like activating the same exact muscles that get
activated when you're masturbating or having sex. Right, So it makes sense that
over time they would start to swell up. You're getting the blood flow.
People do orgasm this way. Now, if you also like time your breath
with it, and you sort of breathe out as you clench, and you
slow your breath down, and you do this ten to twenty minutes, I
swear to you you will be closer to orgasm than when you started. I
know that's like not such a high promise, but I will also do that
same thing when my partner is going down on me or touching me during sex,
and it gets me closer to orgasm faster. For me, the most
powerful thing about it has just been like, oh, I have this influence
over my body even without touching myself, Like that is wild, sort of
like orgasming from the inside out. But yeah, I highly recommend. I
love that it reminds me also of my friend who I mentioned I think in
another episode who can come by squeezing her thighs together. It's like embodied or
somebody who loves talking about masturbation so much. I have like several homework because
I'm coming out of this so I'm thrilled about real quick. For those of
you who don't know, the best way I've heard this described is if you
think about the way that you clench your muscles your pelvic floor when you're trying
not to pee or when you're like trying to stop the stream of PA.
It's the same thing that's a key goal. I feel like when you're playing
around with key goals more if you can feel like the back of your body
towards more of the front towards the glitters, just like sit around and like
it takes some time to develop awareness of the pelvic floor, like most of
us never learned like shoulders, knees toes, pelvic floor right, So like
I think as adults, most of us are trying to figure out what can
you imagine my kids will be doing? So we love a strong pelvic floor.
Okay, this person wants to know how to overcome troubles masturbating after a
breakup. They say that they cannot stop thinking about their ex. My question
would be like, is this a bad thing? Like I don't know,
Like there's a breakup, you want to get over the right I experience it
as an intrusive thought. I do not want to be thinking about this person.
And honestly, the more I don't want to be, the more they're
popping in my head. And maybe it's a past sexual encounter I had with
them. I mean, the worst intrusive thought during masturbation about an AX is
like imagining them having sex with somebody else. Oh it's horrible, It's so
painful, and I don't want it. It does not turn me on.
And some people do fantasize about their exes and it does turn them on,
and that that's cool for you. But I think this person is coming from
the place that I'm coming from, which is like the last thing I want
when I am like trying to focus on what feels good, is like somebody
that just brings up sadness and pain. Like Step one for me was understanding
them as an intruse of that and not something that was my fault or that
I secretly wanted or that I was intentionally doing. No, I don't know
you. Maybe you do want those things, and maybe that is what's coming
up for you, but it certainly doesn't have to mean that. Something that
I have also tried recently is masturbating with somebody on FaceTime. So like me
masturbating and them masturbating and like watching each other. That was super hot too.
But I love what you were saying, Casey, just about the fluidity
of it. You can touch, you cannot touch, You can be side
by side, you could you could film each other, you could take pictures
of each other, you could record each other audio. I like that too.
I like a good audio clip. We think of maybe masturbation as touching
yourself until orgasm, but it could just be touching yourself in self pleasure or
touching the other person without that the goal of it, all right, And
I think also that brings up a good point, which is that sometimes the
line between partnered sex and masturbation are a bit blurred, right, Like,
there's not necessarily like a moment where maybe one stops and one begins because you're
incorporating self touch, doesn't necessarily automatically make it masturbation or vice versa, so
we also don't have to like delineate it. So concretely agreed, I really
relate to this one. How do you not feel bad if your pet is
in the room? You have Hella pets? Tell me how to not feel
bad when my pets are in the room. No, they're not getting hurt,
Like I don't think they're disturbed, But it is when one of them
comes up on the boat and starts to touch me that I'm like, I
can't anymore, like this is this is over now? Or I'm just like
pushing in them away and pushing them away and pushing them away, and then
I'm like, this is no longer heronic for me. I mean, you're
not hurting your pet by masturbating with them in the room, so you can
remind yourself of that. You might also be someone that when you're like cats
or dogs big eyes are looking at you lovingly, that that might just not
be a context for you and you might need to just pop them outside the
door. And that's okay. My ex had a dog who was obsessed with
and he is a tiny little pug and anytime that me and my ex would
be hooking up on the couch. The dog would just be like sitting like
right there. Sometimes mal and I will be in bed and the three cats
will be around us, and we'll start having sex. They will sprint to
the other room and they will go sit outside the door. It's as if
they're like, all right, moms, yeah, we're gonna give you your
privacy. The minute we're done, they're back, so they know they know
what's happening. You have such a tuned kitty. They love it. Do
I do? Well? What about this one? How do you feel about
a parent buying their preteen a sex toy for safe use? Yea or nay?
This is an interesting question. I feel fine about it. Interesting more
people are talking about sex and desire and curiosity, the better that it sounds
like maybe this parent and their preteen have a relationship where they're talking about these
sort of things. I really would have loved being able to talk to one
of my parents about my blanket humping or something like that, or just like
the fact that I was doing this and the fact that I wasn't getting pregnant
from it or anything like that. So a dialogue that allows you to connect
with a parent or a child and talk about desire is really beautiful because kids
have sexuality, and kids have curiosity, and kids get horny, and so
I love this idea, and I do think it's sort of all about the
way that you present it to your kid, right, Like there are so
many options. Do you leave it a little wrapped on the bed for them
to find on their own. Do you sit down with them and watch them
unrapid do you explain to them what it is and what it's for, Like
so many different ways to do it. I do think that allowing your kids
to retain some privacy around their sexuality while still demonstrating that you're supportive of it
and you view it as healthy is really important. And maybe even before you
buy the toy, you have a conversation around it. That's like some people
love using this. I'm vennoing you forty bucks whatever it is. If you
want to use it for a vibrator, I support that. If you want
to go out to dinner, I support that too. Like that basically sort
of demonstrating, like can set an autonomy even through the way that you talk
about it. But for me, I came across my mom's vibrators when I
was a kid, and I didn't know what they were, what to do
any of that. So to think that kids and preteens are not being exposed
to this, I think is a bit delusional. And as parents and caregivers
you do have a choice about like giving them the opportunity to be exposed to
it in a way that's actually accurate. So big fan of that. I
love all of what you just said. Also, it's weird. I've never
like stumbled across my mom's vibrators, so I don't even know. She either
did a really good job hiding them or maybe maybe didn't have Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, let's see this question says I'm more likely to feel
sad or upset after I'm masturbating. What's up postcoital tree? Stay? Is
that what it's called? No, but the sads, the sads. This
is a real thing. This isn't some wrong with you as an individual.
This is very very common, and science is behind on researching why exactly this
happens. But some of the ideas I've read about are, you know,
sort of like a woco's up must come down thing, You know, if
you've just enjoyed a really beautiful meal, or you've just had great sex,
or you just had a great masturbation experience. It makes sense that when it's
over, you're kind of bummed. This thing you and we're looking forward to
is over now. There's also evidence that there may be some biological hormonal pieces
to this. Certainly, masturbating and orgasming can complete what's called the stress response
cycle and help us sort of like move through fight or flight and release motion
and release feeling. Honestly, this isn't a bad thing necessarily. This might
be an opportunity your body is taking to really feel the things that it needs
to feel and give itself permission to do that. But this is very much
a phenomenon that is not uncommon. I've definitely experienced it before, and it
gets like also the body finding balance. Sometimes after you orgasm with a partner,
you might really feel like you don't want to be touched, or you
feel like in this moment prior you were so connected and you wanted them to
like live inside your body, and now you're like, please get away from
me. So I think that it's just kind of like looking at the impulses
that our body sometimes has. That also maybe there's not like a really concrete
explanation for maybe sometimes it's just like you aren't alone. A lot of people
experiences and there's nothing wrong with you. M yeah, So this is our
last question. This person said, I struggle justifying making time to masturbate.
How can I stop feeling guilty for quote unquote wasting time? Oh, with
the two of us in our like efficiency based masturbation, I'm really in the
process of unlearning the concept of wasting time. I don't think that it exists.
I think that time is a construct and all of that. But like
I think that rest, sleep, pleasure, eating, napping, laying down
in a starfish position, which is what I do when I'm feeling overwhelmed,
that's not I've seen it. I can attest to that. That is using
your time in ways that feel good to you. It's just not a waste
to feel pleasure in your body. It's not a waste to connect with yourself.
Internalized capitalism that tells us that we need to be being quote unquote productive,
We need to be contributing, we need to be responding to something.
We need to be able to at the end of our day. Look at
all the things that we have done. And I think that if we were
to categorize joy, pleasure, and rest as part of things that feel like
it adds to our day rather than takes away from it, we could be
rejecting a lot of these harmful narratives and notions. It's also worth doing a
little bit of a deep dive into the very real benefits of masturbation, the
very real biological benefits, the very real relational benefits, because even beyond it
being playful and pleasure oriented and RESTful, it's not a neutral activity. It's
also our culture sex phobia, where like we don't call certain things wasting time,
but we call things related to sex wasting time. And it's like,
you know, is it wasting time to go have a three hour dinner with
your friends? We don't really say that's a waste of time? What are
these sort of strange again, double standards that we have for productivity? MM?
Love that all right? Thanks everybody? These were incredible questions. No,
I had so much fun. This is another one that we feel like
we can have a part to Part two to come. This week's safe word
is mango and was suggested by see Thank you for the suggestion and I Love
Mangoes. Safe Word is hosted by Casey Tanner and Camille Lewis and is produced
by coordinator Annie Failey. Our theme song is written and performed by Emma Jane
and Toria Rainey. Each week we put a question box out on Instagram giving
you the opportunity to ask for advice on the topic a end. You can
also ask your question or submit a safe Word of the week via our website,
the expansive group dot com slash safe Word. That's the expansive group dot
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Find us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at safe Word Pod.