You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio
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Network. Hello, is that the famous Astronova, Sir Patrick Wall, It
is very much so. Any mules on the space front. So Elus has
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Sir Patrick? Then you are normally discover pliciously astronomosis, a huge black
hole. Welcome to Twin Souls. Twin Souls has brought to you an association
with a power normal UK radio network. Your host's Philippo Morale kin Seller.
Now our next guests today are on Twin Souls. Needs no introduction. It's
no other than Philip Mantle, veteran neupologist, author and researcher and also doctor
Arena mccannon Scott, who is the author of many books and has a secured
reputation within a field of UFO research. And we're here to talk about their
new book another book on Pascagoulacord Beyond Reasonable Doubt, the Pasca Goouler Aileen abduction,
and the forward by this book is sadly from Calvin Parking, who has
not long passed over. So hello, Philip and Irena, how are you
both? Good evening gentlemen? Fine, thank you, great, wonderful.
So I mean, tell us a little bit more about this book. I
mean, this book is absolutely incredible. One of the reasons I state that
is because it's a really big, big tune and it's filled with so much
information and new data involved with the Mississippi UFO abduction with Calvin Parker and also
Charles Hixon. So what is unique about this new book that you brought forward?
Well, it began when I started working with Calvin Parker back in twenty
eighteen. Calvin hadn't told his story about his involvement in full about the events
in pascagoul Or on October the eleventh, nineteen seventy three. So I worked
with Calvin and published his first book was Pascagoula The Closest Encounter, followed that
up the year afterward. Pascagoula The story continues what happened much to our surprise.
Maybe we shouldn't have been surprised, but we were. Were a the
amount of other witnesses that we either managed to obtain information about or who stepped
forward themselves. There was a mixture of that. And then Calvin, you
know, slowly started to reveal other bits of the story. For example,
we found out that Charles Hixon, the other gentleman involved, had been put
under hypnosis with Bud Hopkins twice in the nineteen eighties, several years apart.
Calvin himself went under hypnosis with Bud Hopkins in nineteen ninety three. It was
all totally new to us. But what kicked it all off, gentlemen,
was when Calvin's first book came out, he was interviewed by a local journalist
called Karen Nelson, a lovely lady, and not only did she interview him,
she made a small film, you know, seven or eight minutes long,
Calvin wandering down by the river, this is where they happened, and
so on. Eventually, somebody put that little piece of film on YouTube,
and I was scanning through the messag on it one day, and there was
one message and it said my mother and father were on the opposite side of
the river that night, they too saw the UFO, so that certainly grabbed
my attention. Fortunately, this person had used a real name and I managed
to locate her on Facebook and I explained who I was and what I was
doing, and could we speak to her mother and father. I'll get back
to you, and they came back to yes, and it's mister and missus
Blair, Jerry and Maria. So we got the phone number. I rang
them up and Jerry didn't want to speak much. Maria told us that they'd
been on the opposite side of the river that night because mister Blair he worked
on the oil rigs, you know, he was an engineer. He was
going out in a boat. The boat was there, but he was waiting
for his supervisor. It was late, so they were in the car waiting,
you know, having her little nap, and then she says, what
we saw this thing come down the river. She said, at first I
thought it's an aeroplane, but she said, I knew there was no landing
field in that area. There's no air strip. But she says, then
it started making these erratic movements as if it was either looking for something or
it was lost, and it was blue in color and out of the blue.
She said, we decided to put my husband's clothing on the boat,
and we walked down the pier. He was in front of her, and
she said, as I'm walking down the pier, there is this gray man
that was her words in the water, and it popped up out of the
water in front of her, and then it disappeared back whence it had came.
And she never saw it resurface. So she ran to the boat,
chut the clothes on it. She ran back to the car frightened. So
at this point I left it there and I passed it on to Irena.
I asked Irene and if she would help, because I was ringing people in
uh, you know, in the States. They didn't know who I was,
this strange sounding fellow from across the Atlantic, you know, ringing at
the wrong time and things like that. So I knew obviously I had published
earing his books. I knew of a knewer. So Irena, you take
it from there. With the Blairs, well, he gave me the name
Maria Blair, and she was the first person I interviewed. And first of
all I talked to miss mister Blair very briefly, and he said something about
a big splash and a lamp. But he was at that time was a
skeptic, and you know, think the thing was weird. No, so
he didn't talk about So he gave the phone to her, and she started
telling me about seeing this about. You know, they were waiting for their
supervisor and everything, sitting there in the car and that she saw this thing
flying around and he was asleep and she couldn't figure out what it was,
and she said it was just randomly going around. There was no airport there
or anything, and she kept saying it was searching for something, or the
pilot was lost or something. She couldn't figure it out. So then he
decided to put his clothes in the ship. It was around nine o'clock,
and so they were walking down the pair with him in front and she was
walking around behind him. This thing that looked just like a man flopped up
right in front of her and then went back down. And she was really
terrified and she couldn't figure out why it didn't come out up for air again.
And she kept watching and he kept telling her, you're crazy, And
so they went onto the ship. Well then about twelve, which seemed,
you know, a little bit later she was coming back and she was terrified
and ran back to the car. And we wrote and talked for about about
two years maybe, and she was just filled with emotion about this thing that
flopped up on the on the pair, but she didn't know why. And
then finally her husband was became mail unfortunately, and later he died. But
just before he went on the ventilator and when you were on that you can't
talk, he told her that they had been abducted, and he remembered the
thing in detail, but he hadn't wanted her to know anything about it,
and he had always kept quiet because people think they were both crazy and everything.
So he remembered he called one the doctor, and he saw him swimming
back across the Pascagoula afterwards, and you know, remember it in detail.
So she was kind of shocked. I mean, anybody if your husband been
skeptic or her whole life and unixus, Oh you're abducted. Well you know.
So the other thing is Irena, is that you're you're also your you're
instrumental within the UFO field and it's just incredible hell. And if if you
know Phlip mental hadn't had contacted Calvin Parker when he did, I mean,
all of this information would never have surfaced. I just think it's incredible that
you know, you have a scientist on it as well, because you're change
to the UFO field investigations anyway, because you were you were with the battel
and Arena. Thank you very much, gentleman. I always thought was a
scientist. Oh you mean well, I mean technically speaking on a theoretical level.
I mean, you know, yes, you're a scientist. The thing
that interests me about this is very haunting, as I didn't know about the
creature or the man, the figure that rose up and then went back down.
It's very haunting. It's got this case has a kind of aquatic feel
to it, the whole thing. I mean, it's all by water,
and the creature actually within the water. Of course, he didn't come back
up to take a breath. And this is what horrified it would anyone.
And then the fact of her husband, with all due respect, on his
deathbed, to say that basically you know, there was an encounter with these
things. It's very horrifying, isn't it is it is? I mean,
what happened gentlemen, was mister Blair. You know, it didn't die over
night, you know, it was spread out, so it was telling Maria.
It's like a protracted deathbed confession. But at one point he was going
to have a small operation and he wasn't sure, you know, what the
outcome might be, and he insisted on speaking to me from his hospital bed,
and Marie I had to use the mobile phone and I spoke to him,
and then she filmed him and he says, only on this piece of
film, and we have it. You know, I saw the same as
my wife. And you know, he said he lied all those years.
And of course what Irene spotted was that they went to put his clothes on
the boat about nine o'clock, but when she returned it was twelve. It
was midnight, so there was three hours that couldn't account for. And like
Irene said, when she spoke about this, Maria was very emotional. So
sadly mister Blair passed away. And then later on Maria talked about hypnosis.
She knew Calvin and Charlie had gone under hypnosis. So we at first declined
because she was still grieving for her husband, but then she asked again and
I said, okay, let's see what we can do. So I contacted
a few hypnotherapists in the area. One agreed a professional hypnotherapist. She was
named Crystal Slaughter, and the hypnosis was arranged to take part at Calvin's house
because Maria knew that Calvin had undergone hypnosis. So this was September last year.
I believe her thereabouts and she went under hypnosis and we had it filmed
as well. We had it professionally filmed. And what was in the book,
yeah, this is all in the book. What we didn't do,
gentlemen, is if we didn't tell the hypnotherapist anything, she had no idea
what we were going to be talking about. She knew a date, a
time, and a location and that was it. And of course Marias again
is emotional in parts. But she talked about the creatures, the aliens whatever
you want to call them, interested in her DNA. They wanted to have
her eggs and the reason for that was to create beings that could walk amongst
us unnoticed. They looked just like you and I. But what she did
say was that the abduction it was for her and Jerry, not Calvin.
And Charlie. They were like collateral damage. M hm. She says,
we were supposed to be at the pier at that time, you know,
but Charlie and Calvin only decided to go fishing that night on the way home
from work, so they should they weren't supposed to be there. So that's
her opinion. It's nothing else. Now, what was what has happened since
then? Just a couple of months back. I mean, all that that
we've talked about there is there in the book. Yes, we kept having
to to re edit the book when new information became available, but August there
was only going to be a month till the book was out with So that's
it, you know, no more. The opportunity arose again a couple of
months back to have Maria interviewed Maria Blair, not under hypnosis, just a
straightforward interview, and she talks in this interview gents and about what happened to
her. But then she goes on to add a little bit more about Charlie
and Calvin, and she said one of the questions that was asked of her
was when did you first meet Calvin Parker? And she says, I first
saw him when he was abducted, not meet as first saw him when he
was abducted. And she goes on to say that from their vantage point,
she could see what was happening on the other side of the river, but
she was just bewildered by it. She had no idea what was going on.
And then events took place with her and her husband and you know,
and those events took over. So I asked to straight out afterwards. I
said, you know, are you saying you saw Charlie and Calvin be abducted?
And she said, oh, yes, yes, And she claims she's
had an encounter since then, just a citing, you know, since that
time. But the so most of that, apart from the recent interviewer,
are in the book. But what happened, guys, I mean as I
mean had told you in like two years. Other people then started coming forward
or we'd find them one way or another. And one of the reasons we
call the book Beyond Reasonable Doubt is because I was watching a courtroom drama one
night and it said, you've got to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt.
If we were to take all this information and all these people into a courtroom,
surely we could prove beyond reasonable doubt that's something quite extraordinary happen that night.
Yes, absolutely, And I want to ask IRENA's opinion about something,
which is, you know, and I know that you have your opinion,
Philip as well, will last yours because yours is just as valid as anyone
else's. But what's interesting is that these beings that were originally reported by Calvin
Parkers. Just describe them. They are sort of grayish, they're wrinkled,
They had had skin like described by elephant's skin. They had a kind of
a nose but it was protoosion from the nose and two to the rear of
the head, and they had kind of pincers, so that I would refer
to them more like looking at robots. Yeah, I was going to ask
what's interesting about this case among you know, all the other many cases,
because within your aphology, we normally have the you know, grays that are
in vogue, and you have other entities that have seen reptilians. But these
ones, Irena, in your opinion, were so very different. Do you
think that this phenomena kind of like morphed itself within its surroundings to aquatic and
this is why we're getting this difference with this or do you do you think
that? What's your opinion about that? I read and with regards to the
film. Well, about a month later, on November the sixth, there
was a USO sighting underwater identified underwater submarine object, and that was definitely aquatic.
H It was seen by nine people, including two Coast Guard officers,
and it was very well reported and taken seriously. It happened. The sighting
happened just about real close to where the abduction should be, and the abduction
people made fun of them, but with the the underwater sighting, it was
taken very serious by the Coast Garden, the Navy and everything else investigated in
seriousness. I mean, some of the newspapers made fun of them, but
it was aquatic definitely. But theirs was somewhat aquatic too, on account of
seeing the entities whatever they were in the water. And it's like today's TikTok
object where things go in the water and then they come back out, and
that's kind of what they reported. And today's the Coast Garden the Navy was
who really investigated that, and back in nineteen seventy three it was the Coast
Guard and the Navy that investigated, really in the Air Force. Interesting.
The reason why, as well, we know because of the reasonable beyond reasonable
doubt, is the fact that you've had so much evidence to support this case.
Even the sonic boom that was heard when the spacecraft obviously departed our status
fishing story ties up, doesn't it to this actual event the whole thing at
all? All these all these testimonies, they all they all match. That's
why you have a very strong case with this book, because they all match.
And isn't it funny how Philip Mantlin yourself when you push these people Eventually
it's annoying because you think, my god, they kept it quite for so
long. And we understand why they had to keep it quiet because of the
propaganda involved in it, the you know, the the mockery. But it's
wonderful because you bought this out with all this information, this testimony, and
now it's not laughed at anymore. It's actually looked upon with this degree of
reasonable doubts, you know, beyond reasonable doubts. So I think it's amazing,
but it's just frustrating how it took so long for so many people to
come forward due to this what you've opened up. I want to ask Philip
a question, if I may, Philip, do you where do you think
these things are coming from? You've been involved in your apology for a very
long time, and most of us see the grays and all the rest of
it. We all know about them. But what is your opinion, because
let's face it, these beings that were seen are completely totally so so were
many others during this time, as Philip knows and doctor Irena knows that they
were quite different. I mean, you had many different types. I don't
think that's unique in that, you know, to suggest that because these were
as they were, well, they're not reported today. Let's put it that
way. The grays are well. All I can say is that we've not
been able to locate anything else anywhere in any other case that looks like these
creatures. That's right. But as as you said, there are other cases
that are also have you know, their own individual you know, reports of
what the creatures look like. For me, you know, and I talked
to I used to talk to Calvin every week, you know, on Skype,
then on email. And it's very difficult when you're an outsider looking in
and you're speaking to someone who has confronted the phenomena, you know, head
on, you know, up close and personal, and they don't know what
happened. So it's very difficult for you, as an outsider to try and
figure out what the hell happened. What I did do was look at some
of the so called explanations in inverted commas for this encounter. Of course,
Philip Class, who was the arch skeptic back in ninth in the nineteen seventies,
he just wrote it off as a hoax. And in one of our
previous books, we published an unpublished article by Philip Class. And I accessed
Philip Class's file on pasta Google and it's one hundred and sixty pages long.
And when you go through it, gents, there is no research being done
at all. Always trying to do is to find some mud that he can
sling, and he couldn't and he couldn't find any. And I'll just give
you one little story. A few years they ran into each other, didn't
they ran into each other. Yeah, Charlie was doing a TV show somewhere
and he persuaded Calvin to meet him, not to go on, just to
meet up, and he says I'm going on the TV with his scientist and
it's been organized by this journalist. So Calvin reluctantly turned up, and when
he got there, the TV slot had been canceled, and the journalist said,
let's let's go over the road and have a chat, but I'll buy
you some dinner. So Calvin has no idea what's going on. So there's
Charlie, this other fella. They sit down. Of course, this other
fellow wasn't a scientist. It was Philip Class. And at this point Charlie
and him weren't talking. So the journalist said to Philip Class, it was
Class who would refuse to go on the TV with Charles Hickson. And he
said why, he said, because he's lying. So Calvin, you know
so well, if you're calling him a liar, you're also calling him me
a liar because I was there that night, and if you call me a
liar again, and Calvin explained to him in graphic detail what the consequences would
be, and Calvin said, I should have kept my mouth shut because we
went home with no dinner that night. We were asked to leave, you
know, And Calvin said, I don't care if people don't believe me,
that's different. But to call me a liar, you know, So the
hoax thing was gone. I mean, nobody who was involved with these gentlemen
in nineteen seventy three, including the local law enforcement and so on, ever,
suspected hope. They told them when they turned up at the sheriff's department
that night, you know, and they said, the sheriff said, you
know, if you're if you're you know, up to something here, you're
going to be in big trouble. You better tell us now what's going on.
And of course, you know, they didn't say anything different. They
had a tape recorder. They even secretly recorded them. And truth isn't they
Yeah. So, as the years progressed the skeptic society, there's another chap
called Joe Nickel. He had a goal and he said that these two gentlemen
were experiencing a psychological manifestation, but each one, believe it or not,
had a different manifestation happened at the same time at the same location, and
of course they observed the same thing, you know, which was and when
you look at these explanations, they just didn't fit the information that was available
in recent times. It was claimed that it was the CIA experiment. Now
you know that some kind of drug was dispersed in the atmosphere then, and
they had an hallucination. Again, both guys had the same illucination at the
same time. And it's in a built up area, you know, you
can see, you know, we've got photographs of this place. It's not
it's not in the swamp. It's right next to the the highway. Then
the latest one wasn't it was the Russians that this was a secret Russian submarine
spying on the ship building there. And the creatures were actually, you know,
Russian submarriners in their in their diving suits. So to take your pick
out of all of them, gentlemen, you know again that is desperation measure
to try and come up with anything that would that it was. Now,
if I could have found a rational explanation that fits all the evidence, I
would have said to Calvin, this is it, Calvin, I said,
I would help you, and I think I found the answer. But of
course that never happened, And you know, I don't honestly know what happened
to them. All I can tell you is that something extraordinary was happening in
that location at that time and that year across the United States. I have
to ask here, Irena, you're so arena for you. I mean you've
you've been involved in UFO research for many long years, haven't you. Irena?
How is it for you? I mean, you've you've teamed up with
Philip, You've known Philip for a very long time. So how is it
for you, Irena? When you you know, what's it like when you
speak to these witnesses? Because Philip obviously liaisos with you, your his US
counterpart. How is it for you? I mean, how do you deal
with this when you're connecting with these individuals and especially with the Pasca Gula case
that no one on this planet? And I and again said again if Philip
hadn't got involved with Calvin Parker, none of this would have been known.
I remember Philip said to me once that you'll be amazed what you can find
in the filing cabinet. I always remember what you said there, Philip.
But Irena, what is it like for you? I mean, how do
you how I would imagine it would be being like a journalist, she just
awes them. Well, I had been involved with that actually, way back
when it happened because of my family. I'd been living in Missouri and my
mother was in Ohio, and on the night of October the eleventh, nineteen
seventy three, she called me and said something about hearing an explosion or some
strange noise, and I joked with her and told her to go insane asylum.
They were six hundred miles away and everything. Sometime later, she called
a few days later and said there was this huge flat going on all over
Ohio. Everybody was seeing and people were keeping their kids in, they staying
in at night, and everything else. And so I didn't pay attention to
it for years. But then I was working at Ohio State and I wanted
One day, I was just in a library and decided to go check the
newspapers and see if I could find when that was. And I didn't expect
it because I didn't remember the date. But I found it and for some
reason and interested me, and I did more research about this strange noise that
covered about half the country, and it was the same time as the abduction,
but I didn't pay attention to that at that time. I just pay
attention to sound, and I wrote it up for a scientific journal, and
the state Seismologist of Ohio contacted me and helped me look over seismograph records and
things, and then I did report in a scientific journal. But so I
had had, you know, an experience of my own at the same time
is that abduction, and this caused me to be a lot more interested than
I would otherwise. I didn't pay attention to the abduction though, until Philip
contacted me. And that's all in your book, Pat Beyond Pascacula, the
rest of the amazing story, because you focused all of your attention on this
amazing incident and how synchronicity appears to have occurred with you know, the whole
phenomena itself. And then of course you're connected with Philippin and Philip has Well,
I mean, without Philip Mantol, there's no doubting the fact that this,
this story would have been buried forever, nothing would have ever come out
of it. And now it's even larger than it was when Philip first got
involved in it, and all thanks to both you and himself and all the
other witnesses. It's incredible, isn't it. Well, it was dead,
gentlemen, was dead I mean when I when I set off looking for Calvin
Parker. It was for an interview, nothing else. I got the rights
to republish Charlie Hixon's book UFO contact at Pascagoula, and you mister Hickson had
passed away, so I thought if i'd get an interview with Calvin, it
might just bring it up to date a little bit. So that was my
only intention, And I'd give you an example. I contacted some UFO researchers
in Mississippi, which seemed a logical place to start, and they had never
heard of it. They just give me some some some Google links. When
I could fight, I could google, I could google it myself, you
know. And that's when it all began. You know. I was just
looking for an interview and nothing else. And there have been those that have
said, oh, these so called new witnesses, that they're only coming forward
because they want their fifteen minutes of fame, which is nonsense. For example,
mister and Missus Blair, they didn't come forward. It was their daughter
that made that comment, and I just happened to read it, you know,
and then she put us in touch. And there's been many instances like
that. I'll give you another one, Calvin was doing a book signing down
in Pascagoula with his wife Waynette, and somebody came up and said, can
I buy a book? Thank you very much, mister Parker. Oh,
by the way, I saw that thing that night and they walked away.
Now, luckily, somebody was taking photographs and there is this picture of this
gentleman with white hair buying that book. So I put it on I put
it on social media and saying I didn't say why, I just said to
anybody know this gentleman, I'd like to speak to him. And it wasn't
long that somebody from the local library in the town said, I know who
that is. I'll ask if you'll speak to you, and he come back
said yeah, And it was a chap called mister Lewis Lee. Now I
spoke to mister Lea, as did Irena. And on that night, October
eleventh, nineteen seventy three, he was working in the shipyard on the other
side of the river and he was a crane operator and he said, my
cab, my cab in the crane is about ten feet off the ground.
And he said, when I got in the cab that night, Philip,
I said, I've seen this darn thing out across the river, so you've
never ever seen anything like it in your life of it are incredible because like
you were just saying, Irene, is that when your mum called you about
that sound across half the the region and then later on you're with Philip Mantle
and you find out it's synchronized with the actual Pasca Grula's ship as supposedly I
gather leaving the earth stratosphere, the actual sound they make when they actually hit
or hit a particular speed to depart. It's just amazing. How like as
yourself, Philip, when you're saying about the chap in the grain who spotted
the ship, and yourself locked her describing that you know your mother called you.
It's just so uncanny. It's all coming together, and the Blairs and
Calvin and Charlie. It's weird and it's weird. It's as if it was
meant to be, even though it didn't seem it was. It was meant
to all come together, and you were instrumental in this, in bringing this
all together, for this information and blue even the ship was blue. Now
there I said this before Aquatic water Blue. It's weird. Isn't it.
Well, you know it's got to be aquatic. It's done by the river.
I mean, you know, well, you know what I mean.
It's all it seems to be symbolisms. Actually, you do realize that's the
only academic qualification I ever got was my swimming certificate for doing one length.
And here I am working with a lady who has got a ceaving longer than
the M one motorway. Absolutely, you know. But the unique thing about
it is like they were in the water as well, or as the Blazers
has said, in the water. It's all. This is unique because how
many reports of aliens them were in water? None, virtually none. So
it's very weird and quite unique in this. I think what happened gens is
back in nineteen seventy three, certainly on the television they saw Charlie and Calvin
being really cooled and made fun of so that put people off, Like mister
Lee. I said to mister Lee, did you report this to any one
back in nineteen seventy three? In he said, Philip, there was no
Ghostbusters? Oh the hell am I gonna call? You know? EXPD.
I told my family and that was it. But come twenty eighteen, when
Calvin published his first book, the times had changed and instead of being ridiculed,
it was not been taken seriously, treated with respect. And in twenty
nineteen, of course, the town of Pascagoula unveiled a historic marker at the
site, which was unveiled by the mayor, you know, and that is
still there to this day. And so there, you know, people's attitudes
had now changed somewhat, not everybody's, but certainly in the media did.
And people were also getting of an age where they couldn't care less anymore.
You know, I'm too old. I don't care what people think. Man,
I'm going to tell my story while I can. And you know,
but we just kept on digging. You mentioned things about in a filing cabinet,
Yes, I mean literally after Irena and I had said that's it.
We're not doing any more additions to the book because we kept having to add
things to it. A lady by the name of Chelsea Norton Prince, who
runs the Ocean Springs Historical Society in Mississippi. Ocean Springs is just a bit
further west from Pascagoula on the coast. A member of their Society had handled
us two boxes of documents, and these documents originally belonged to Charles Hixon,
two boxes of them, mostly letters and what had happened this lady's mum and
dad. They bought Charlie's house when he passed away in twenty eleven, and
this material was left in the house. So in these two boxes of material,
Chelsea knew of my interest in this case, and she thankfully digitized every
single one for us. It's a little time capsule. You know, there's
no smoking guns in there, but it's a little time capsule. But there
is letters to Charlie from Betty Hill for example, Hopkins. And there's one
letter intrigued me by what was happening just after I read it. There's a
letter in it from a NASA physicist and he says, I asked my boss
at NASA to investigate your account and they refused. Yes, lo and behold,
I've just been watching NASA on the television saying we're setting up our own
UFO investigation. That's a smoke screen. Do you know what that? Even
if they found anything, I mean, NASA are an amazing administration. We
we're not going to knock them for that, but any interview, I think
we all know anything to do with UFO related that they're going to have a
cream and then just give us the air brush out out pictures. I just
thought in it, I run they had the chance all those years back.
He is a NASA physicist saying, come on, guys, you know,
let's have a look at this. It's just happened, and we found in
these these two boxes of material. You know, sketch by Charlie Hixon of
the UFO, never been published anywhere before. It's a hand drawn sketch,
lots of correspondence with people you know, and so exactly as I mentioned to
you before, you will be highly surprised what is lying around in somebody's basement,
somebody's attic, somebody filing cabinet under the bed. You know. For
example, we're not talking about this case, but for example, I think
everybody who was involved at Roswell back in nineteen forty seven has now passed away,
so there is nobody else to interview. So you surely there must be
looking for items that have been left behind. Yes, right, yes,
yeah, what is interesting. The lady who donated these letters, she said,
oh, I used to have more than that, but I give some
away. She couldn't remember who she'd given the others too, so we know
that he's more material out there. Yeah, Irena, As a scientist yourself,
I mean, how do those within the scientific community deal with your interest
within the UFO subject? I mean, knowing that you're connected with British euthologists,
well veteran UFO researcher for it, mental, how has it dealt with
your end? Now? Do you get more respect now? Do you think
or feel within the scientific community being a scientist yourself? Yeah, I definitely
get more respect because I didn't mention it much at work in science. But
you know, if anybody found out I was interested in the UFO, they
really let me know. It was insane and you know all that, And
have you seen a UFO this morning? And so on. Since twenty seventeen,
they've been a little bit more respectful of I didn't say it much until
I retire anyway, Yes, it has a kind of stigma still, doesn't
it. There's a slight stigma attached to it, to the ignorant and those
uneducated on it. I mean, I know we have a lot of people
out there that they really go down the rabbit hole. They really do.
But there are cases like these, as Philip Mantle and yourself approved without a
shadow of a doubt that they did happen. This incident had happened, And
I refer to the big uglies as Calvin Parker suggested that they were as robots,
some kind of servant, but they were extraterrestial. Nonetheless, these were
very, very frightening and just for our listeners, it sounds quite blase as
we talk about it, but for these gentlemen, it was quite horrific.
For Charlie and Calvin. Now, Charlie had a much kinder observation by them,
whereas I think Calvin had the worst of it. That's the impression I
get, although they were both horrified at the same time. You know,
Calvin had the worst of it most definitely. I wanted to ask a question
here which is important and unique to the subject matter at hand. Now we
find another couple that were originally meant to be abducted, and namely because of
the eggs from the female, I don't think they got very far with you
know, Charlie and Calvin was younger, so that's why I wonder they were
more interested in him and Philip you said also about the plan of these so
called extraterrestrials to walk among us. Now, I know that doctor David Jacobs
also has this idea that you know that they're secretly, you know, connecting
themselves within our society without us being aware of it. What's your opinion to
that? Philip and Irena want to ask both of you, what do you
think the main reason is with regards to these abductions. Well, what I'll
say is that you know first, and Maria is not that up on UFO
literature, So once she's making the claims, it's I'm not sure it's come
from any book or television. You know. She doesn't strike me as a
lady who has so it's not guarded from somewhere else. What is interesting,
gentlemen, you had Dr David Jacobs and Bud Hopkins good friends and colleagues,
and they will both have access to the same data, but both came to
completely different conclusions. You know. David Jacobs said that we should be wary
of these buggers that are up to no good, you know, whereas Bud
said, no, they're here to help us and help themselves, you know,
but they had the same data. What is again interesting is Bud was
involved with Charlie and Calvin. You know, he put them under hypnosis.
Even in nineteen eighty eight he spoke at a mini conference in Gauchet, which
is where Charlie lived on the Gulf Coast, so him and Charlie also shared
the platform the speakers. But when we were looking for or the the tapes
of their hypnosis, of course Bud's passed away and his archive is now residing
with doctor David Jacobs. And we contacted mister Jacobs and he found the tapes
and gave his copies of them. It's sadly he's not in the best of
health himself these days, so his research days are over. But so it
amazes me how you have two eminent people involved in the subject with the same
data but come to completely different conclusions. So again, me as an outsider
that doesn't have all the data that these guys have got, I'm just looking
at the past of Googler case and I'm thinking, Mark, you know,
I just don't know, you know, I cannot figure it out. And
I asked Calvin, what come on, Calvin, you were there, mate,
you know you stared at these things, you know, face to face,
what the hell was going on? And he said, that's what I'm
trying to find out, Philip. You know these gentlemen who had difference of
opinions, Well so did Charlie and Calvin. Because Charlie felt it was more
of an I get the impression from reading your books and the material that he
felt it was more afterwards uplifting. When Calvin was completely against he was down
the other route. So it's interesting how the two. Well, Charlie became
a contact key. He had a couple of inverted Comma's messages from these these
beings and tolding him to be patient. Something else was going to happen.
It was going to be beneficial for Manguind and he was going to play a
part in it, and it was coming soon. You know. It wasn't
way off in the in the you know, whereas Calvin it was totally different.
He thought they were demonic because what they've done was you know, not
nice put it, putting it politely, and you know he wanted to kill
him. Yes, well he virtually almost sceeded, so you know, so
again but again you look at both gentlemen Charlie had been in the army.
He fought in the Korean War. And when I say fought, a mean
fought, you know it wasn't a cook. He was on the front line.
And during the experience he even used his time in career to help him.
For example, he thought at one point while on board this thing that
they were going to kill him. So he thought, just get on with
it and don't let me suffer. But then he thought back to a time
in career when they were pinned down under enemy fire and the captain was there,
and the captain said to him, stay calm, you'll be all right.
We'll find an opportunity to get the hell out of here. Just just
be patient. And he thought, no, you know, they're not going
to kill me. I'll wait and I'll get me. I'll get my chance
to get out of here. So he used his previous experiences, whereas Calvin
didn't have any of that. You know, I don't think it'd ever been
outside of Mississippi, well anywhere else, you know what I mean. You
know, I will say here, Philip and Irena that the phenomena itself extends
not just from the contact experience that's been initiated and then the witnessing of that
phenomenon, but also when we have these regressions. Now my understanding and what
do you think about this, Irena and Philip, is that when you have
these brilliant regressionists liked doctor David Jacobs and the late Bub Hopkins, and there
are many of them, and that is interesting, isn't it How the individuals
that go to say but had gone to Bud or whether or not to someone
else, that they all have their own unique spear on it. And I
wonder whether not the phenomena is able to even at that stage infiltrate the actual
regressionist in some kind of control mechanism, mental control mechanism, to still bring
forward this story that can't be you know, clarified in terms of the mental
processing. Like one says their positive, one says their negative. So I
think the phenomena operates even beyond that level of the so called initial interaction.
What do you think about that, Irena? I had the experience of having
Bud Hopkins try to hypnotise me, and I also do a UFO and missing
time that sort of thing, and I also had two medical doctors and it
didn't work at all. I mean nothing. I didn't go into a transfer
or anything, so I don't understand it. But whatever you're talking about,
did nothing happened to me. What I will say, gentlemen, I wouldn't
actually necessarily go down that room. What I would look at is something called
confirmation bias. Now you may think that you are totally objective when you're dealing
with this phenomena or researching it or investigating it. But all of us,
every single one of us, has our own belief system, and whether we
know it or not, sometimes we look for information that will confirm that belief
system, i e. Confirmation bias. So here you have bod at some
point he thinks these are you know, these guys have gone down a genetic
cul de sac. They're here to harvest genetic material to help them and at
the same time help us, whereas Dabbie Jacobs at some point I thought these
lot are up to no good. We should not trust them. So you
then tend to look for information that just supports your your your belief system and
that and that's in any aspect of the UFO research. So that that's the
way I look at it. You know, it's conformab It's like my you
know, I have my great friend Paul Askaff. Paul has talked in detail
about it or being on you know, different frequencies and all this kind of
thing. And you know he will only look for material whether he knows it
or not. You don't necessarily do it on purpose that will confirm his theories.
And I had a friend called Albert Bodom from London many years back.
Albert came to the conclusion that these experiences were we were all hyper sensitive to
electromagnetic radiation which the Earth gives out and now we make from telephone masks and
things like that, and some of us who are allergic to this radiation hasn't
a hallucination, you know, a very real one. And as soon as
Albert had gone down that route, that was him finished. I've solved,
you know, And I've not seen him since, you know, two books
on the subject. I've not seen him since. So you don't always know
that you're doing it, you know. And it's like it's like Calvin he
said, at one point, I thought these were demons because it was it
wasn't necessarily a Bible reader, but he believed in the Bible he was a
Christian believed in God. He once said to me, Philip, look at
the trees, look at the birds, look at the flowers. What more
evidence do you need that God exists. That's beautiful. Absolutely, And so
whatever these things were, they weren't nice. They also gave him a curse,
and they cursed him, and the curse was they actually showed him things
on board the UFO. Yeah, some was of the past, some was
the present, and someone was for Earth's future. And in the future,
he said, all mankind will be involved in a global war that no country
will escape. And he saw people with their flesh melting off them and things
like that, and it took Yeah, it took him a long time to
tell me that. He called it a curse, and he says that he
would deem. Yeah. It's the actual recording of him speaking at that point
where he's reiterating he wanted to kill them. I remember seeing that at the
I think it was the early conference with you there, Philip, and they
replayed that and that made my skin crawl what he said, he wants to
kill them. They're evil. When you when you actually hear him speaking,
you can hear it's quite disturbing. Actually that that actually made my skin crawl.
I'll give you another example, guys, when I when I listened to
the tape recording of the hypnosis with Bob Hopkins. Now, Calvin was a
tough old boot, you know what I mean. Yes, And you hear
him on this tape recording screaming, and I mean screaming. And the only
time I've ever heard anything like that. I've had my own medical problems down
the years. And one night I was in Lee's General Infirmary A and E.
And as you know, a lot of the e qbicles are just curtains.
They're not walls or doors, it's just curtains. And I'm in one
little part of it, you know, surrounded by curtains, and the doctors
and Tory the nurses moved me a bit further down with no explanation, and
I could hear them racing up and down. And where I was was they
had a viewing screen on the wall where they put the X rays up and
they could view them, and they're shouting, if we don't do this,
and we don't do that, we're going to lose him. And then from
up the other end of A and e. You heard this scream and it
was a woman and her son had just died. It'd been in a road
traffic accident. It was only eighteen and he died and she let out this
scream, and it just reminded me of Calvin's screaming in pain. It's the
only two occasions I've seen loads of horror films where the screen blue murder.
I used to be a big horror film fan. But when you when you
hear it in real life, gentlemen, you know what they do in the
movie is nothing like it at all, you know. And I'll give you
another example. Both Calvin and Charlie when they were taking on board this think,
Calvin says he was he thought it was placed on a transparent table and
he was at an angle. Charlie said he was just suspended. Now,
I have trouble sleeping, so some years back, when it first started,
I tried all the herbal remedies. Nothing. So I went to see a
hypnotherapist, not for regression, but I said, can you help me try
and get to sleep on an eye? That's all I want? And he
said I should be able to help. So I went for four sessions.
The last session I had. Guys, you're lying with this gentleman, laying
in this big leather chair, and it's all electronics, so you can alter
it in different parts to suit you, to make you comfortable. You have
headphones on and a little thing on your finger, and then he talks to
you. And he got to the state when I was under hypnosis, gentlemen,
I could not feel the chair underneath me. Oh, it's the most
comfortable I have ever been in my life. So when Charlie and Calvin were
describing how they were suspended in this thing, it reminded me of that last
hypnosis session I had. And I'm not saying it's anything to do with it.
I'm just saying it's what it just reminded me of. Yeah, it's
interesting you say that because these things, these beings, have the ability of,
as we read through cases of actually imprisoning people without any restraints. They're
just paralyzed. It's like being caught in a spider's web. So that's very
interesting what you've just said there, Philip. Yeah, Irena, do you
where do you think these beings are coming from? I mean, I know
it's a hypothetical example, but what's your opinion. I mean, you know,
we have a lot of here. Do you think they're hair on Earth
all the time or do you think they're in a dimension or in space?
Where do you think they're coming from? Arena? I don't have any idea,
but I really think that we don't pick up everything in our senses,
like we don't see gravity and stuff like that. Well, there may be
a whole lot of things we don't pick up. And maybe they're hair all
the time, and maybe they're you know, all over, and maybe they
don't have a deffinite location like an electron or something. So you know,
with quantum physics, things are pretty funny. Yes, that's right. I
don't you know. They may they could be like twenty billion years ahead of
us or something. They're not maybe not least a hundred, but way ahead
of us, and we you know, be less and a nee but trying
to understand it television or something. We may just be little chemical reactions to
them. Yes, God help us, Philip, what do you think?
Well, it's interesting what I mean has said there, because if we notice
within Europology in general, there has been a kind of a shift, not
with everybody we used to talk about linear space travel. Coming from a to
be. In the last i'd say twenty years, we've learned an awful lot
about the universe, and it's much bigger than we ever imagined. It's the
visible universe, and I'm saying the visible universe is forty eight billion like years
across. There's an estimated two trillion galaxies. And within those galaxies, I
don't know what the next number ups of stars and planets. You know,
I'm gonna say Brazilian, but that's something different live thinking about it. So
we've learned that the you know, the Drake equation becomes even more important about
the possibility of life existing elsewhere. But what we've learned is that they are
great distance. So linear space travel as we as humans, if we want
to explore the universe, then we have to drum up something that's aching to
star trek technology you know, you know, use use it. Using liquid
propellants is going to get us nowhere. You know. So people have I
met I met, for example, some years back, professor Mitchio Kaku,
well known guy. I met him. I interviewed him and he explained other
dimensions to me, and he said, I'll no disrespect for it, but
I'll do it in star Trek terminology as well, so we can understand it,
you know. And he said, for example, you know, time
travel is theoretically possible, but we just don't have the power plant and able
to us to do it. And we said when looking for something aching to
the power of the sun. But he said, he said, any any
day know is that it would not surprise me if somebody from our future one
of my relatives didn't pop back and say, oh, you were right,
professor. You know. So people have started looking at, you know,
other dimensions, how we move, how we how we bend space and time,
which will would then enable us to jump from one side of the universe
to another rather than going from me to be like we would in a in
a car or a rocket. Yeah, so that's becoming And then we've got
others saying, well, perhaps they're not aliens. I have to remember the
first if we go if we say, if we if we class Roswell,
you know, as the start of alien contact. Although they were dead,
they've pretty much the beings that were there pretty much looked like you and I.
They were humanoids, two arms, two legs, you know, fingers,
toes, perhaps then not aliens from another Perhaps we are the aliens.
It's us from the future. That would be Diane Tessaman's as well. Yeah,
yeah, I spoke to Diane and published one of her books. So
that's become more and more popular for what you know, so that there's lots
of possibility, and of course it could be that, you know, it's
none of that whatsoever. For example, I published a book by Dr Dan
Farkas, a Romanian scientist. It's called hyper Civilizations, and he says something
is pretty similar to what Iren has just said. He said, we are
being visited, but the beings are so far in advance of us that we
are just too dumb on the evolutionary scale to know what the hell they are.
They said, It's like if you've got a television set and put it
in an ant's nest. That they're highly organized. You know, soldier ants
might attack it, you know, the protect the queen, but never in
a zillionaears would be able to figure out what it was coming from and what
it does, you know. So we are we are at the intergalactigants.
So I mean we are we are slowly coming to the end of the show
and it's it's been a really eye opening interview and really amazing. I'll just
tell our listeners out there that you know, beyond reasonable doubt, the Pasca
Gooler Aileen Abduction written by veteran UFO researcher, author and publisher Philip Mental and
doctor Irena Scott, who is a noted author herself, a brilliant scientist,
and so made within the configuration of what's been going on with the Pascagoula and
the ongoing research. So I just have to ask you, Arena. Are
we allowed to know the title of your new book, Philip as well of
Arena's new book that's coming out. We have to ask Arena because I can't
remember what's your new book going to be called? Irena and Aliens something?
I forget the Alien Apocalypse eight Aliens and Aliens in the Aparcalypse. I'm sorry,
I know that's great. I mean, the thing is, you've written
so many books. I mean, you've got to think you know, it's
it's like one of those things with anyone. And I just have to say
to both of you seriously on this radio show that to thank you, Philip
and Irena, not just for being who you are, but also for bringing
the Pasigula incident to the awareness of the general public, because had it not
been for you, Philip and Arena. I mentioned Irena, it would have
died. And and we just wish you the best of luck with the continuing
research and no doubt there's going to be more books that's going to start for
the shelves with regards to this incident, because it is one of the largest,
I think one of the biggest UFO incidents that has got more evidence to
be certainly collective momentum, isn't it than any other UFO case. Yeah,
I mean I'm by this, gentleman, but it didn't start out like that,
and there is nothing like it. It's almost the perfect case. And
there will be another book next year. There's also a new documentary that I've
signed up to make, so I've started with that already. That'll be out
for next year. And so I would say this year for any of your
listeners, if they're only going to buy one UFO book, make sure it's
beyond reasonable doubt and you will not be disappointed. And in the pipeline for
next year, there's two gentlemen from down Bedfordshire Way called Philip and Ronald Kinsella
will have new books out and I know that because I've been working on them
as we speak. Well, I just have to thank you both, Ronalds
and doctor Arena Scott and Philip Mantle for coming on in the future. Yeah
once you're written, are great too. Thank you. It does cause controversy,
but I think it's a good thing that we have balance. We have
we have the positive and we have the negative. You can't always be one
sided. I agree. It's like time travel and we have no nonsense.
No, I know, I think definitely, but that could be wrong.
But so but it's good to have a good mix in there. It does
well up the ants, doesn't It stirs them up. But thank you so
much. And I'll just say to our listeners one more time, Beyond Reasonable
Doubt the Basic and an aduction by Philip Mental and doctor Arena Scott forward by
Calvin. It's a beautiful and I say, go and get the heartback,
because we have got the heartback. And I can't tell you just how beautiful,
and not just about the wealth of information in there, but how beautiful
all this book cover art. It is filled with art with newspaper cuttings with
new information, you will not be disappointed. So if you can stretch your
your bank account a little bit further by a few more pounds, get the
hardback or paperback, kindle or audio. And what I love about them,
especially Phillip's books, is at the wealth of data in them. I mean
the illustrations you've got, photographs, you've got, you know, articles is
absolutely amazing and it's all it's all done so beautifully. Yeah, So any
last words, Irena, any last words from you at all. It's a
fantastic book. Get in there and wave that book around. Any last words,
Irena for the show, thank you for having me, and your books
are great too, and thanks for lot well we we abridge and Philip yourself
the UFO Royalty. So Philip, yeah, no, I'm sure there'll be
more to come, you know, as the new year approaches on this subject
in general, and we will endeavor to keep everybody updated whatever we come across.
And you know, good night and God bless him everyone. Yes,
so you've been listening to Twin Souls. Your hosts Philipp and Rookinsella are esteem
guest doctor Runa Scott and veteran you are for researcher, publisher and author Philip
Mentor go out and buy, beyond reasonable doubt the vascular reductions. You will
not be disappointed.