The opinions expressed by Chayo Busquets are supported by his extensive experience as a family
therapist and in the previous analysis of the cases presented here welcome. This is
Chayo with you. At Joya we start very good afternoon to everyone how are
Chayo Busquets. This is Chayo with you and we are already and now he
is. It is plural why we have invited, as you well know,
a topic that I started to announce to you since last week and that,
well, started to generate emails messages of all kinds, because, then,
it is a hot topic. It' s a hot topic. Let'
s talk about infidelity today. Thanks to Mariano for the microphone pass and well,
let' s talk, like I said with Tatitron. You guys already
know her. We' ve had shows with her, our Friday segment what,
well, she' s got a big answer and today she' s
with us. She is a couple' s therapist and individual therapist, of
course, and well, she has eight for hundreds of years of experience in
these, in these subjects and that' s why she' s the one
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this, Welcome. Thanks for inviting me back. You don' t
know, you know, you' re already from home here We' ll
have you all year long if life doesn' t allow them there. That
' s true. You said one thing, you told him this is a
hot topic, no yes, and associating that one, that' s that
word with the inetivity and the heat of the discussion, with the anger that
happens, with the devastation of the revelation of secrets, finding it, etcetera.
We' re talking about infidelity. Yeah, what' s very curious
is the same word. Yes, infidelity comes from having faith. So,
infidelities to have the definition, is to have faith that the other is going
to be the right thing within the contact that we have. That would be
fidelity. Faithfulness and infidelity do. You don' t expect, then,
to honor that contract that was made, although today, in the two thousand
twenty- four, yes, I would like to ask exactly what is infidelity
for whom and for each couple. No, when you start the relationship,
it' s not like I don' t want you to cheat on me
or we are. We understand that we are going to have emotional exclusivity and
we are going to have body and sexual exclusivity, etcetera. No, but
within this word exclusivity is not that it is really what is excluded. Let
us understand specifically why you start to see and problem arise when we have sat
down to talk about it is how it looks, where it is, how
it is. Because there are in certain that we can say, there are
certain cultures where flirting is valid. The flirtation is valid. For others,
that would be like a breakup, etcetera. But when I ask the couples
is you talked about it, you talked about it a two- three times
to agree on what it would look like, what the example would be,
and so on. And many tell me yes and no. No. Yes
and no, and since, as you know perfectly well, they see and
know perfectly well the listeners that I am from another generation where the phone,
the networks and all that would not be seen. There wasn' t.
So the definition of infidelity was easier than it is now. Not that if
infidelities, that one of the two has the opportunity to watch pornography, that
if one excludes the famous sexting, not with one, that if one can
make a kind of virtual relationship without having presence, there is a whole series
of things that did not exist before, not thanks to networks or badly by
networks, Etcetera where one does not find out, and also through networks,
one is in access with people that we did not know, rather that we
did not know, that we stopped seeing the boyfriend, the friend, etcetera.
Then we get back in touch. You have a little excitement, because
it' s something new. Then let' s begin to define what it
is in general, for each of us it means something, but what it
means in our partner as well and there are various kinds of infidelities. We
are not going to keep anything else in infidelity, which has to do with
the body, which has to do with sexuality, but it also has to
do with emotion, with what we had decided was our field. No.
Our field is who comes in and who comes out and how. Not what
you' re talking about. And recently a lady from Chihuahua tells me that
she is having one that has been in one for a long time in a
phone relationship with a man not where they pour out their conversational life, their
fears, conversational, their tastes, etcetera. And clearly, it' s
something hidden from her husband, that hidden then, from the moment it'
s hidden, from the moment it' s clandestine, from the moment it
becomes secret and there' s something that' s not right. No ok,
because you can have your friends, or you can have your friends within
this freedom, within human rights, within civil rights e. But one thing
is that he' s a friend, he' s turning into something else,
no, where you' re going to be excluded. Excluded well,
not exactly. It' s not hear I want to go with my guys,
because it' s so much more fun. I want to be with
my friends, not that, but it' s open. So I do
ask if they were talking about what is defined because if it doesn' t
break easily that' s the way it is and Tari with what you were
saying in the previous segment. I was thinking about two things that aren'
t going to be new to the audience, because I' ve mentioned it
many times here. The question of where infidelity begins for everyone who does not.
And the other thing I often say here is if we had the cultural
permission not to promise fidelity in the rites of marriage, if you would incorporate
it as part of your vows or leave it outside, because, because they
are already done. Not anymore, those vows, those rituals are already pre
- fabricated and you just have to say it accepted no good, so you
know if you have a clear awareness of what it is that you are accepting
and saying totally promise to be faithful, because it sounds, sounds, sounds,
cute, yeah, sure, nice theme. If I hadn' t
put this there, I wouldn' t. If one would say yes,
we want no, whether we want to put it as part of our votes
or not. And it' s very curious because when I answered it,
I answered it. I asked about social media. Some answer yes. Yeah.
Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yes, of course, of course,
of course, of course. But those who would say they don' t
do it on the wall that everyone sees write me in private and tell me
not the truth. Not me. No. I think there' s monogamy.
No, no. I think that no more mind to the couples of
the problem, but the funny thing is that they don' t expose it
in the public part where everyone could see the messages send it in private in
answers that I can only see. I don' t, and that part
is very curious, well, but it' s also very curious, because
let' s accept that, in general there' s no judgment, there
' s no criticism that if she' s a woman and she' s
going to say I want to have something open, well, then, then
she' s going to be pointed out as a dissolute woman, not a
four- letter woman, four- finned or light helmets, etcetera. If
I were a man, there might be a different vision, not about that,
but if you read it your partner, who knows exactly what he thinks
then those things as they are rather more delicate, not delicate today, and
not I don' t mean it' s a new movement. This also
exists well the infidelity inside the swingers. Let' s agree. We disagree.
That' s another thing. Everyone has their degree of morality Surely,
now I' d like to make a small difference with a word. Not
where the word adultery is. Yes, adultery that in some countries is punishable,
which has to do with a sexual act, yes, while infidelity has
to do with a betrayal within this contract of trust, of closeness to what
we share and what we do not. So there are places where being a
man, an adulterous woman can cause your life. However, have an affective
relationship, without having sexual issues or body sections. For some people it is
also infidelity. Why, because there' s something you' re giving to
the other one that we missed in principle belonged to you. Not to me
alone, and the word belongs, for perhaps it is not the right one,
no, because then it has as possessiveness, et cetera. But it
' s from our realm here and I' m trying to get the couples
to come, not in the case that, in fact, there was a
breakup, a betrayal. It' s not clear that at that moment I
can' t do it, but it' s and when they talked about
it and when it started to break and you just said one thing here is
where it starts, where it starts. I wonder if where it starts is
when the other one realizes or where it starts when I' m going to
break up. The contract. Yeah, I' m still in a half
- grey place, which I' m not sure if I am or if
I am, but there' s something that excites me, there' s
something that draws my attention. No and at the same time you should ask
yourself if infidelities a night of drinks and something happens, then it' s
infidelity or it' s a slip or something happens. There are couples who
have very particular rules where you have permission to the best of what they call
it, they call it having a pass. If it' s 300 kilometers
from this area, there are others that have to do with. If I
go on vacation, you can, but all these everything I' m asking
you, I' m telling you. It' s contracts, whether you
can agree with yourself or not. But if that couple agrees, then it
' s not infidelity. If it would be infidelity as for example, it
is you broke the contract of being with someone if it is here where we
live or within the hundred kilometers we had not left that it had to be
three hundred that is for example, because where Veracruz, Veracruz, Chihuahua,
where no one knows us, where there is not going to be a rebound,
then that is very particular of each of the couples. This is how
I see it and how it turns out to be done in the consultation.
The word infidelity also happens, well, a lot happens in the workplace,
in the workplace where you can start with a flirting suddenly a pretext that I
need to go to the office, I need to have a meeting. There
' s something that line is starting to disappear. I' m not so
clear when the one who' s going to do it if he realizes it
because he says ay no well, it' s never a small experience.
But since you know that things happen to us not necessarily under our will,
but all of a sudden it starts to pick up speed and let' s
go and we left and we don' t even know where we came to
see. In general, and in a very simplistic way, I have been
able to notice in the office and here with the incoming emails, which end
up being like two great types of people, those that those of us who
are not just talking about men, that it is a lifestyle to be unfaithful,
and those who truly believe in fidelity and yet suddenly stumbled into life.
Not good, good that you can put where the intention is not to share
life with a person. No, and we can all get a resvalon.
Nothing more than there are slips that are more expensive from the emotional point of
view of the relationship than other king one that I would like to touch is
ex- boyfriends and ex- girlfriends. No, I don' t.
He' s the ex- boyfriend from when you were fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen, who might have been a sweaty little hand, but he gave you
an emotion that' s a kid, teen emotion. Well, maybe they
' re allowed. However, if you know, if you know there'
s some sort of arrest that was very attractive to the other and there'
s a question of sexual tension, et cetera, that force you to accept
that woe. But that' s an ex- girlfriend. It includes that
you are not listening to me where it does cause me something about my feelings
and then it would have to do with your lack of respect for what is
happening to me today within our bond. It causes me anguish knowing that there
were these as passions or these intensities. There are boyfriends to girlfriends, there
are no, there are certain things that are totally different. You may have
had a boyfriend or a girlfriend for a year, but that wasn' t
as intense as, for example, the one that was three months, but
it was of a beastly intensity, where there was a full sexuality, where
there were things that didn' t always disappear. Then you force the couple
to accept. He' s not my ex- boyfriend and it' s
over. It' s over. I' d have to ask myself It
really happened. There are no ones where you know if you feel, whether
there is or not, regardless of the personal jealousy issue that some have,
because, as you know and surely have talked about it many, jealousy too
I ask is there a basis of jealousy prior to the relationship or jealousy is
born yes from a breakup or a transgression that there was, because one is
a result of something and the other had already something base And something basic,
as they have said many times, has to do with what the bond is
not safe, how we grew up at home, what we saw between the
couple. Not to be sure that the other is for you and the other
is a reaction, a reaction to what did happen at some point, regardless
of whether we can speak at another time of jealousy, what is control,
belonging, etcetera. Yeah, there' s something left. When there was
a breaking of boundaries, then it gives me myeditis. No yes, yes
and I would say a question with which I would like us to return back
from court and it is really a couple who lived a crisis of infidelity seriously
can fully recover and return to the previous state, or that distrust stays and
always the rest of the life of that relationship. I left you Tari and
with the real question a couple may be able to recover from an infidelity.
It really recovers and returns where it was in what I have observed. If
you' re telling me to recover to ninety- five percent and one hundred
percent, well I say that. Those things are so lame to think about,
but there' s not always anything left. Reconstruction, rebuilding of confidence
takes a long time and should also put here in this segment the kind of
infidelity that there was or did not That is also very important. That'
s not just infidelity. Let' s say with someone at work that someone
in your family will see to be more explicit. That time it' s
the cousin, or the brother, or the best friend, or the best
friend, because that' s a we' ve formed a question of intimacy
and I do see that there are people who totally spread out where they have
a relationship with the sister or the husband' s brother. Then there is
a betrayal, not only family, double, but double not and apart from
that of the same clan, that is, the whole clan. And that
infidelity is, in my view, totally different than if it were someone who
was not necessarily in our inner circle, in that part of the circle of
the person who committed the exactly already. And there' s also another thing,
it' s the kind of infidelities. How long this takes And this
word, which takes a long time to fashion the famous gast lighting that is
in front of which I ask you whether or not. You tell me no.
That' s lying, not omitting, is not telling you what I
' m saying and falsifying is you' re crazy or you' re not
crazy. And that' s where that kind of infidelity is very harsh,
because the other one intends to make you doubt your own perceptions. And that
' s it. Canyon, now, cannon, because then it has to
do with your own being right now that you said you denied. I'
ve heard it and heard it more from men. He doesn' t mean
there aren' t any women who say it, but I, personally,
have heard it more from men when your wife or your partner, because no
matter what kind of relationship he' s in, he starts to suspect and
he tells you and they' ve told him and he has all your deny
it to death. Ah well, but that' s very, very,
very where it comes from. Ah well, but that' s from the
male contract, that male canant has been in your deny it, even if
they see you on the spot, on the jump, on the poll spot,
it' s not what it is. Apart from this, it'
s not what it looks like, et cetera, because that' s something
already popular. What is it, what is it that within the mentality of
quates, of the masculine is said and pushed and what is within the world
of women. It' s not that it' s half allowed or not,
so you deny it because it becomes very complex, that is, for
some reason. You' re with a male couple who have this philosophy of
life. No, and even though I didn' t fake you, as
you said about you being crazy, of course not, of course it'
s not true at all, I would never be unable and then always end
up with this constant doubt. Okay, there' s a mess there,
because I trust you, I ask you, because I' m going to
trust your answer, and what I would expect from this delicate moment is that
you' re clear to tell me yes, yes, this is happening to
me no, but you' re telling me no. There are two possibilities.
Whether he' s not true or he' s not there' s
still so much to pay for. If I know this, I' d
better say no and maybe I' ll stop doing it, because ching already
felt very close to the situation and better stop it because this is getting dangerous,
but he won' t keep holding it. And it never happened and
it never happened past the other one I didn' t fake because I treated
you with respect at that time, let' s say, but he'
s hiding it. No, but before your vision, you, as a
woman or as the couple who is with this man, tell you that no
and look and I would really be incapable and at all I love you and
no, because apparently you are treating the question with respect and seriousness. Not
the one who answers you, you' re crazy, no, that'
s dead. There I am clearly right or wrong, because the matter is
already being further decomposed. But he who is apparently treating you with respect,
who is making it seem that he is giving seriousness to the question to others
but there is always he will have denied, because there is too much involved
if he had said yes, and then how you live. With that let
' s go back to this that you commented I trust You, or if
I have an internal basis of jealousy, it' s that from the beginning
I don' t trust You and I don' t trust Me. No,
I don' t trust me, I don' t trust the relationship.
That is a huge problem and very different from the one I start to
distrust, because yes, I start to see things and feel things. Not
that this is going to come out of the pattern. This is not something.
And other things that happen a lot within evil is that they send you
little messages. Not that to help you, it is to open your eyes,
to open your eyes, and I tell you good, for what right
do you have to open your eyes? And I have them closed, because
I prefer to keep them closed. This one to see resumes a little what
you were saying. Not the one who has a jealousy basis I never trust
in the relationship, although it seems not yes, but it is a personal
problem. It' s a personal problem, as I was saying, it
has to do with his own story and his stories of ties, security,
etcetera. No ok also has with the idea of belonging that if this is
mine and and it is quite difficult when you start a relationship, when you
base and you already have that plus everything that implies that we can do another
talk, another program on another program. But I' d just like to
leave it to the listeners that that' s also a jealousy cellus from before
is to have a beta where you alone hurt yourself and that beta. I
think we can talk about self- harm, of course. But, well,
we left him here, we walked away like this. Now you'
re telling me, there' s the other one where jealousy starts from changes
that you start to see and you say to see. This isn' t
right, this doesn' t go so well, not to see. There
are no true, there are certain patterns of relationship, there are certain schedules
that are happening. Not the unconscious, too. First, no, but
then, as we say, the conscious is unconscious and little by little.
But there is also something else that I find interesting, where man or woman
are accused. It' s how you didn' t see him and then
I' m back to this. It' s how I' m gonna
see something I don' t conceive of if it doesn' t exist in
my head. I don' t see it. It' s not that
easy, it' s not like you deny it. No. So,
apart from everyone who paints your horn, you' re a brute. Yes,
not because you denied it on the way, regardless of the unconscious denial
that we know is the denial of this other. If I can' t
conceive that it can in him or in her and it can exist. Of
course I won' t see him, of course I won' t see
him. I' m going to give others, other explanations, songs,
no, and then it turns. But this is through time, not asking
you, not asking you, not having the courage, also saying yes is
happening to me, understanding that you' re playing it, knowing if the
other one is going to be finally honest and all saying if something is happening,
so there, when something is happening, it' s a big disappointment,
but at the same time it' s a quietness that this I felt
knew was happening. No. I mean, no, I' m not
that bad. What' s like the answer of you' re crazy,
you' re crazy, you' re not leaving to complete the p And
that' s when we say the false yes, then how difficult this topic
is. No, why is there emotion, because there are examples. Not
to say it happened at home. No, yeah, it was dad,
yeah, it was moms, and it was grandpa, if it was my
cousins, if it was brother, no, who has the most right.
This and another thing I do want to put here. I want to put
here is the one who decides to be unfaithful. That' s totally your
decision. You can' t blame your partner. Is that why you didn
' t listen to me? Why not? Why weren' t you there?
No, it' s not what we can talk about. This is
what happens between us that maybe we didn' t board, we weren'
t talking about it on YouTube, but that you made me guilty of your
decision there, not anymore, and many men and women say ah if I
had done this, maybe they wouldn' t paint my horns. Don'
t stop. Let' s put the responsibility right where it is. It
' s not. Yes, we cooperate on many things, but we cooperate
on this gap we cooperate on feeling that we are not so important that you
are not one of my priorities. Yeah, we cooperate, but the other
one is a decision. It can' t have been a slip. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, we can all get there, whatever it is in
other areas of life, but it' s another thing that it' s
a slip and I decide to go on because I' m unbalanced or not.
Okay, yeah, okay, and that' s something else. Okay,
yeah, yeah, there may be, but it' s next.
Or next is that one. Then I say to the listeners and predominantly to
the women, because since we are the guardians of marriage, not matrimony,
as we had matric silver and mater not this, we feel more than what
happens and can distinguish it. Not this, I mean, we came back
with more chayo with you and well, the program is gone, it'
s gone flying and I don' t want to, although I know it
' s very extensive, but I don' t want to leave without asking
you this question comment. Anyway, this idea that I also think is here
again I' ve heard more about women than men. If he really loved
me, he wouldn' t have cheated on me. Not that easy?
Just like that? It' s not black or white, it' s
not if he doesn' t love me anymore. That' s why he
was unfaithful. We have to enter into beings, contradictory. We are not
beings as you said with many nuances. We get carried away with this thing
about you being unfaithful to me, because you don' t love me anymore.
It is to stay in a place not like very without a position,
without a power, like balancing what has been. There' s something that
' s deteriorated. No, and let me tell you, I don'
t think all the infidelities have anything to do with the couple. I don
' t believe that. Now it' s been hard for me to get
there. It' s not like it is. It has everything to do
with it, not necessarily, because I have a case of a man where
we can also talk about it with prostitutes. He started doing it from the
age of sixteen and continues to do it forty years later. Okay, so,
in your particular case, in your particular case, it has to do
with balancing your life through that act. There are people who balance their lives,
say through drugs, gambling, etcetera. No or some exercise and other
positive things. In this case this man has not been a regulator. He
' s a regulator of his mental and emotional part, and he' s
an excellent couple. An excellent couple, not a wonderful couple, but it
is something when he gets very distressed, a lot of anguish that he has
since he was fifteen sixteen years old, that he is going to take refuge
there and uff leaves and then he returns to his life as someone who is
going to drink or who is going to take drugs or decides that he will
run three or four blocks. Then I have made myself doubt these things that
touch me to see and I say ay, it will be, no,
it will be, no, but I have nothing left but to be totally
talking about it than to be watching. Then. These are very unique cases
and notice that you leave the programme again because that has also led me to
listen and again here more to men than to women, that infidelity helps them
to bring a better marriage and at least of the many same ones that for
some people it does help as you do, and for others it is a
pretext. You know, it' s a pretext and I had a teacher
who I still have a lot of affection for and he said look at the
marriage. Sometimes it' s so heavy that it can' t just be
loaded by two you need three. Then I' d say ay. I
think that' s a shame of yours, no, of course, of
course, but sometimes it certainly is, and I' m going to share
with you an idea that my dad. My dad said a lot in the
hesitant and in the meetings and in the jokes and everything, said the marriage
is the only sentence in which, if you behave well, it is life
imprisonment. And good. This brings us to the end of the Tari programme.
Thank you so much. Yes, thank you, thank you very much.
Of course, we see her Friday with her segment every Friday and this
program we have to put on. It will continue, without any doubt,
we will make second third and who knows how many parts. As well,
because the pure subject of infidelity would give us for the whole year in your
interventions. To be talking about this, but well, it' s time
to say good- bye and we' ll meet tomorrow at one o'
clock in the afternoon here at more than Chayo, with you until then. Audio Centre