Welcome to the KTPF Reload Show. In case you're wondering what the Reload Show
is about if you haven't heard previous shows, these are the interviews that were
conducted by a good friends of mine, Steven Sue Taggett in the days of
the KTPF radio show. There are on radio show around for just over four
years, broadcasting every week for over the three hours. I joined them in
the last eighteen months of the show's run, but eventually the guys felt they've
just about had enough. It was a monumental effort to keep broadcasting every week
for three hours. It was a wonderful show, but unfortunately they are longer
involved and the shows have just sort of sat in the archives. So I
thought it would be nice to bring them back to life and bringing you the
interviews that the guy has conducted over those four years and include some of the
most interesting people within the world of the paranormal and some not so well numbers
that have nevertheless still very interesting. We even now one or two rather unusual
shows, including a live salance and other things along those lines. Anyway,
hopefully you enjoy tonight's show, and this is the KYTPF for reload show Enjoy.
This program deals with themes of an adult nature and is intended for a
mature audience. You're in the right place, online, on a web and
on air all the world talk radio. You hear us, We hear you.
Good evening, everybody, and welcome to the k TOPF community talk show.
My name is Suzanne, I'm Steve, and we are here keeping the
paranormal friendly. Now, what's on tonight? Show? Well. In August
nineteen seventy seven, single parents Peggy Hodgson called police to her rented home in
Enfield after two of her four children claimed that furniture was moving and knocking sounds
were heard on walls. The children, including Margaret h thirteen, Janet age
eleven, Johnny aged ten, and Billie aged seven. Later claims included allegedly
demonic voices, loud noises, thrown rocks and toys, overturned chairs, and
levitation of the children a police officer or other. A policewoman even signed enough
for David to say that she had seen the chair move. There was more
than thirty witnesses to the strange incidents, desperate for an explanation about what could
be taken place in their home. The family turned to the Society of Psychical
if that's the right word research, a respective scientific body that examines cases of
alleged hauntings from any academic perspective. It sent two investigators, guide Lyon Playfair
and Marris Grouse to examine the evidence. Reports of further incidents in the house
attracted considerable press attention, and the story was covered in British newspapers such as
The Daily Mault and Daily Mirror until reports came to an end in nineteen seventy
nine. The Enfield Ghost is one of those cases in the paramo normal that
has always fascinated me. But what is the truth about the case? I'm
hoping guy talking about the Enfield case can give me a little insight into Polticast,
including some details from a new study which used some recordings from the Enfield
case. Mister Playfair, welcome to the show. It's been great having you
on. Everybody was interested in the Enfield case, and I hope you don't
mind talking to us about it. Oh, I don't think of something new
to say about it. That's the thing, isn't it. Really We've just
been saying that. I think it's something that you know you've basically done to
death, isn't it really? Well? Yes, and the TV serial coming
up based on it, Well, it hasn't been announced yet actually, so
I did not say too much, but it's said to be going to be
announced this week bobum Sky. So I'm sure he'll let you know about it.
Yeah, right, okay, hopefully everyone can hear you. Okay,
So can you hear it? Okay? Okay, right, okay, So,
first of all, how did you get involved in the case, and
can you give us a basic outline of what it was about? Nothing less
than about three hours, but I'll try. Well, I got involved quite
by accident. So I went along to the Society of Psychical Research SBR in
August of nineteen seventy seven that year, which happened to be about Pologist,
and I sat next to refer to Morris Gross, whom I hardly knew.
He was a new member, and I then he met him a couple of
times and just sort of said hello, and he said that he'd read one
of my books and write it. So I just said thank you. That
was that, really, And after the end of this talk about Pologist by
a librarian. Actually it was it gave a very good talk about the sort
of history of the subject and made it all sound rather other academic and something
that used to happen, but obviously it didn't happen anymore. And then the
question time at the end, Morris jumped up and said he was investigating a
case right now, and it was a kind of horrified gasp, and he
said he'd like some help. And since I was sitting right in front of
him, I couldn't scale, I said, rather sort of off handedly,
just let me know to get desperate. So I didn't really want to.
I had alsoorso other things to do, and I was also hoping to go
on holiday, which I hadn't done for several at these two years because I've
been writing a very wrong book which had just come out. And I missed
you for a Blue Arrest. And then what happened was on That was on
Thursday. And on Sunday lunchtime, I was listening to the BBC's World of
One and who should pop up at Morris broadcasting from Enfield together together with a
BBC reporter Russell and Morris, who did a superb job, stayed up all
night and then went straight into the studio and did a very very concise piece
on the whole case and literally took off from there. And so I realized
that this was a case that I just had to go and look at,
and went along on the Monday and stayed there fourteen months. Fourteen months.
God, in the beginning, what kind of phenomena did you personally experience that
convinced you something was definitely happening. Well, as soon as I got through
the door, it was the atmosphere. They were scared stiff. I mean,
they were completely confused and didn't they want the lead to do. And
it already appealed to the police and the social services and the church and the
welfare and everything else, and finally, in desparation, they phoned the Daily
Mirror because that was their paper and they weren't out for any money. They
didn't ask for any and they never got any, but they they wanted help
from somebody, and out of luck would have it, The Daily Mirror's chief
reporter was George Fallows. It was a very decent fellow and very concerned for
the welfare of the family. And he told he said he'd call the SBR.
That's how we got involved, was entirely thanks to the Deadly Mirror,
and they deserve all credit for doing a very, very worthy act, which
today they wouldn't do that sort of thing now. I mean, journalism in
the seventies was a lot more consider it and ethical than it is now.
So we were lucky and we were treated pretty well fairly by the press on
the whole. We didn't didn't have any really really bad times. So that's
how it all began. And did I say, what convinced me was the
fact that the family were all absolutely terrified. You know, they would sleep
with a light on all night, which you don't normally do, and quite
often they wouldn't even go into a room on their own during the day.
And I heard one of the girls say to the other, you know,
will you come in come in there with me. They didn't want to be
on their own at all. I mean, they really were absolutely terrified.
And why the hell would anybody fate that? Yeah? Yeah, So for
you, what was the scariest thing that happened? Oh? Well, quite
a choice. For me, it's hard to say. I don't think there
was any one any any worse than the other, just so many of them.
The I suppose The most impressive was really when people outside the house were
involved in the lollipop. Lady across the road saw Janet floating up and down
through the window and she must have been at least three feets in the air
to be visible from the street level. And then of course this large cushion
appeared on the roof in full view of the baker still hasn't got over it
even today. He just won't talk about it. Well today. Tried to
get hold of him back two years ago, and he just wouldn't discuss it.
It's kind the hell out of him. You know. He's walking along
the pavement directly towards the house, and nobody was opening windows or in the
garden or anywhere near it. And suddenly this very large sofa cushion appears on
the roof, just from one frame to the next, as it were,
And that was done improbably well. All kinds of people saw that, but
he was the only one who was prepared to talk about it. Luckily we
grabbed him pretty soon after the event before he'd cammed up, which which he
now has. So it was things like that that we're pretty unusual and better
witness than you normally get it because this was in a fairly busy residential street
and there was lots of people. The house was right on the street front,
and it wasn't nice of eated at all. It was semi detached.
They had next door neighbors who were well aware of what was going on,
and they could hear quite a lot of it, so it was it was
well witnessed right from day one. Right now, why do you think Janet
was more affected that more than her sister, because I believe she was the
focus of the activity. Well, they both were, Janet more so certainly,
yes, that that we simply don't know. I mean, the Poltic
guys do appear to attach themselves to one single individual, which is very often
the teenage girl or boy. They can be both and sometimes much older.
I mean, we've had Morris and I did a case where were the only
occupants were a young couple in their thirties, no children at all, just
the husband and wife and boy bund dog. So you don't have to have
children, but it doesn't need to help, and it seems to be something
to do with available energy. I don't know that she needs to certainly have
more of that than most of us. Yeah, but the whole thing is
of a total industry. We really don't know anything about publications at all,
and I don't try to pretend that I do. All I can tell you
is how they behave This is it now. We've got a couple of questions
in the chat room, and the Damon and the viscounts similar questions. Actually,
what do you think when people claim that it was all fake? Other
than the why would anyone want to fake it back in those days? But
the viscount says, many people say that the daughter was faking it, example,
whistling and barking noises coming from Janet's general direction. Well, I don't
sorry, that wouldn't do, because we actually had a professional speech sorapist up
there and she heard this voice and said she never heard anything like it.
And we also got a professor of phonetics from London University and lenders at Larringo
graph which you camp under the neck and you'll record signals from the larynx,
and this established beyond any doubt that the voice was not made by the normal
vocal cords. Now you can't do that, and it's what they use for
the sort of proudly voices and radio commercials. Yeah, you know, talking
about horror films and that kind of thing. But you can't keep that up
for very long without getting one hell of a sore throat. And Janet could
keep it up for literally for hours, So that excuse shortly, it won't
do. They've got to do better than that. There was a researcher,
Anita Gregory. She claimed that the uncles told her that he thought Janet had
taught herself to talk in a deep voice and love to treat strangers. Yes,
and Lisa Gregory went there, I think twice. I went there about
one hundred and twenty five times. I think I'm in a better position to
judge what went on there than she was. And she seemed to be determined
to demank the thing before she even got there. So you get used to
that sort of thing. It goes with a job, and it doesn't really
bother me. She was in a very small minority of nitpickers. And I
certainly don't believe that the uncle. He was very supportive of Janet all the
way through, and I don't think he would have accused her of anything.
He certainly would have told me if he caught her cheesy anyway, So I'm
sorry, I reject the testamenty completely. Did they ever play any pranks?
Yes, they did, and we knew that, and he knew, we
knew, we all knew, and I didn't make a big dealer of it
at all because it's their house. They can do what they like. It's
not my job as an investigator told children how to behave in their own home,
is it? No? This is it. And also for children to
any tape what they see going on around them, that's how they've learne I
mean, that's the basis of all education. And it's very very common on
politicized cases that once they've been going for a few weeks or longer, that
the children think this is a sort of new game or whatever and they join
in. There's also evidence that I've seen where they can do kind of unconscious
cheating, where something seems to get into them and they do things without knowing
why. You know, I've had one very clear case of that. So
this is not quite as simple as the so called skeptics to pretend. Do
you think it's possible that they're thinking about what they did? Fake is making
them doubt what actually happened. Do you think that could be the possibility.
Well, what they did fake was so easy to discover. I mean,
one lovely example, which I never forget, was when I got back from
the pub where I've been having my evening meal and found my tape recorder was
missing. And the girls said, oh, yeah, the ghost stolen something.
So I had to look around and I found it immediately cupboard, and
they took on to turn it off. It was still recording, so they
recorded the evidence themselves. You know, let's put it in the cupboard and
tell him the culture I is told. And they really weren't very good at
it. And then after a while I just sort of said, please,
don't play around and might take recording because they were quite expensive in those days.
And we never referred to it again. I mean, it was normal
kind of twelve year old behavior. It's nice to know that with all the
fear that they were going through, they could still act like children, if
you understand I'm saying, Well, we almost encouraged them in some ways.
I mean, we tried to defuse the situation right from the start and get
rid of this sort of idea of demonic possession or terror or something. I
just look this is just a sort of It's like a dose of the measle
It will pass. It's a disease, and it's not your fault. It
just happened. It will go away. And eventually, of course he did,
but it took much longer than normal. There was an instant with marbles,
I believe. Could you say where the children were when this happened.
I believe they fell from the ceiling or something, and always lego or something.
We had lego all over the place, and the unfortunate Daily Mirror photographer
got whacked on the forehead very hard by piece of lego while he was actually
taking a photo. So I mean, who threw it, you know,
but nobody's throwing it. In the photo you could see exactly where all the
children's hands were. And also you can't throw a piece of lego hard enough
to make a large bruise on the poor fellow's for it. And I saw
that day after it happened. It was a great, big red blob in
the middle of his forehead, quite nasty. And then if he had gone
into his eye it would have been the end of that one. Can we
ask them on a technical side what equipment was used during the case, oh
lots of it. The mirror photographer had all kinds of super computer driven flash
which would four times a minute there, four times a second, and could
take a sort of sequences of moving film which we've got several of those where
you get i think it's six actually still still photos taken their intervals of about
I'm sure exactly, but it's it's about about a second or less, so
you get you get a little brief moving clip, which is very very important.
We've got quite a few of those which are very good evidence of things
moving without anybody anywhere near them, several of those. And Maurice Gross had
a very large reel to reel tape recorder. BBC reporter had a er which
is absolutely the top of the range the when they used for outside broadcast,
perfect wonderful quality and very reliable. Of course, the first thing it did
was was was not work. It jammed the tapes completely solid into the machine
and the technician BBC had to take it apart. He said he'd never seen
that before, and then he hadn't put it out on a polticized case before.
So that's what happens. Talking about the equipment and stuff, David and
Dave Lloyd would like to know that. Could I ask you why what you've
feel about the new technology technology being used on investigations today, such as spirit
boxes, imited cameras and full spectrum cameras well a thermal imaging is interesting.
You should say that because it's just been done by an Australian colleague of mind,
Paul Cropper, who is rapidly becoming one of the most diligent politicist chasers
in the world. He's been several other countries in search of them and he's
just written a whole book called Australian Politiceist, which is quite an eye opener.
The case has been never heard of from Australia. On the last on
the case from the nineteen nineties in a little place with the denightful name of
Humpty Dew in the Northern Territories, the local TV people came in and they
did bring a thermal imaging camera and they were the film stones that have just
been strown and find that there were no fingerprints on them because they fingerprints show
up very very very clearly on thermal imaging. And also the stones were uniformly
hot all over, which can only be done by deliberately heating them, and
even in very hot Australian climate, this was you know, they weren't just
warm, they were hot, and he filmed them repeatedly until the stone cooled
down and you could see the whole process from start to finish. I mean
that's very precise evidence. So that's been done, yes, and then that
certainly will be done again, at least in Australia, where they seem to
be having a more more interest in these things than here. If you could,
would you go back with them or you know, would you have used
today's technology if it was now? Well, I wouldn't do a case like
that again, I mean one is enough and they are. I was just
thinking that if it was today the case, would you use today's technology like
spirit boxes and stuff like that. I don't. I don't not think not
really no. I mean we we we get a lot of reports in the
spr We have a special committee for members of the public who send in accounts
of all the things that happened to them, and we try to investigate as
many as we can, and we have we have done. Colleagues of mine
have investigated other poltigeous with various bits and pieces and things. But I've always
rather felt the GIRLD fashioned reporting with a tape recorder and a notebook is all
you need. Nothing ever, seems to be conclusive. I mean you can
prove or something as you can. I mean, like we we managed to
get the wrapping thumping oops oh sorry, and most traps went off. I
wasn't apologist. I didn't like it. Where was I? Yeah, we
we recorded a lot of these knocking rapping sounds on the infield, and I
thought at the time it might be interesting to analyze them on a spectrum oscilloscope,
which which shows the what they call the acoustic signature. And we couldn't
do that at the time. We didn't know anybody who had the equipment.
And luckily one of our members, Barry Colvin, who has all the gear.
He's got his own laboratory and he did analyze about twelve recordings from different
cases, including three or four of mine from from Brazil where it used to
be, and he found in every single case the pologize raps do not look
like normal ones at all. In fact, you cannot fake them with a
very elaborate methods which the average twelve hold go would not have, and so
that's more evidence. We do manage to get some proper evidence on these things.
We don't just sort of fool around, you know, to try and
contribute to the sum of scientific knowledge about these things, and we have.
And the apart from anything else, this technique is very useful with distinguishing genuine
raps from fake ones, because if somebody is faking one, who will catch
them easily? Straight off? Yeah? Yeah, When Janet admitted to faking
phenomena, this is from Damon is to say, what if you and Morris
could tell what went through your mind and what did you think what made her
fake it? I I didn't think about it. I mean, look,
for the sake, this was children behaving in their own house, and I
don't expect them to sort of sit neatly in rows reading their Bibles. I
mean there were a couple of very lively then kids in the in their their
own house, and we were visitors guests. I didn't tell them what to
do. I mean, that's that's not I didn't worry about it. I
mean they didn't do it very often, and they weren't very good at it,
so we did. We just didn't make a big deed that did you
any time think that they were at risk to their lives? No, certainly
not. No, you didn't think that anyone was going to you know,
poltergeist wasn't going to hurt them. Well, Janet did have some very severe
what looked like Chancey's. They were, they were a bit a bit concerning,
I mean, because again, nobody would do anything about it. The
mother took her to the local doctor and he just gave her a pill and
centered away. And they called in the child welfare psychiatrist who thought the whole
thing was a complete joke, and he just went away without doing anything at
all. I think he should have been struck off for negligence and they couldn't
get anybody to give him any help at all. We were there one night
when when she was coming a very violent it looked more like an epidemtic fit.
I mean, there may be a distant connection between the two. And
the emergency night doctor came along, gave a ten cec of value which we
actually saw a take, and two hours later she was flung out of bed,
sound asleep. Again, how do you fake that? She should have
been absolutely knocked out after that nose And yet and she won't. In fact,
she did. She was still asleep when we found her across the room,
something absolutely out of it. So that was a bit harry. But
then, luckily, as luck would have it, for whatever, a couple
of friends of mine from Brazil turned up and they did a sort of spiritus
routine and completely cured it straight off, and that never happened again. It
was approved. It was proved at time that Janet had the ability to bend
metal without touching them. Yes she did. And that was also recording on
a strain gauge, which you can't faith without what you can, but not
easily. And it was supervised but by a student from Burgbank College who knows
how to operate these things. Yeah she did. I mean we did that
the suggestion of Matthew Manning, who came along to sort of encourage the family
and tell them that these things do get better, and he thought it was
a good way of drawing off the energy as it worked. That's what he
did when he had a very severe politicised attack when he was at school,
and he decided to do automatic writing and drawing as a way of, as
he saw it, sort of diverting the energy and It certainly worked him,
and he stopped. He stopped bending spoons, and he kept on doing paintings
and so and then he became a helo, very good one. He cured
me a very unpleasant problem. So you don't think a metal bending was down
to telekinesis, then well you can call it what you like. I mean,
the fact is that she did actually bended teaspoon which was wired up to
a strange gauge. And I can remember one day when we just found a
bent spoon on the kitchen table, which everybody firmly denied having bent, and
there was no reason why they should. And also found that the girls were
extremely truthful. They never added to their stories at all. We would frequently
question them again about something we asked them about several weeks previously, and they
didn't change their stories. Ever. They were a very sort of matter of
fact and they stuck to what they'd observed and didn't make things up. Didn't
have to. One question that's come up in the chat room is were you
contacted at all regarding the BBC's ghost Watch episode that came on that. Yes,
I was typical sort of steaky way of doing it, and they wanted
They told me they were doing a drama, fictional drama about positic hoists,
and they wanted technical advice as to how they worked. So as soon as
I read the script, I realized that it was a complete rip off of
them. Yeah book, so I sue them and approach. We needn't go
into that now, but I won. I had a very nice holiday on
the proceeds. So you finally got your holiday. I did, and I
went to Denmark in a lovely time. And well, I mean, I
don't really want to go into the details, to be honest with you.
I've heard so much about it, and I only really saw it last year,
and I didn't think much of it. But that's by the bye.
Damon Liz would like to know, Sorry, I was looking at something else.
Damon lis would like to know what got you interested in the paranormal crum?
Well, I'm not really interested in the paranormal. I don't like the
word. So what what would you like to call it? Research? Or
scientific research? Well, I'm interested in anything that I can write about.
I've written all sorts of stuff about subjects that are entirely unrelated to Poltigeist,
and more recently haven't been in that sort of area at all. I've been
a member of the Society for Psychical Research for forty years and written quite a
lot of stuff from them about all kinds of things. Are really interested in
anything that hasn't been explained, Yes, I think you could call it,
Well, the word I prefer is anomaly anomalies. Is that why you joined
the society? I think I joined it when I was living in Brazil and
working with a local group there. We were chasing after politgeist where they had
plenty of them going on, and I met some of these mysterious psychic surgeons
and the rip people open with their bare hands, and some interesting mediums,
including Sika Chevier, extraordinary man who's written, who wrote about four hundred and
fifty books in automatic writing. And Brazil where it was all happening in the
seventies it was. It was quite exciting stuff. So when I came back
to England nineteen seventy five, I thought i'd joined the SBR and keep up
to date with developments over here, which I have and still am. Another
question in the chat room is what do you think of mediums? Well,
I mean you say, what do I think of people? They're all different.
Some of them I would say were understandingly good, and some of them
were completely useless. I haven't had much luck with them. I have met
one of two very good ones. The best I suppose was that they both
had was quite well known in spiritualist circles, and she certainly wasn't extremely accurate
to tairvoyants. I mean, she could see things that she wasn't supposed to
be able to see. And she seemed to have some ability for precognition as
well, and she was fascinating and has a very good reputation for absolute honesty
and integrity. And once I actually gave us sitting to Winston Churchill, which
she wouldn't give me any details about, but I think that's generally established as
she did that. And Matthew Manning is another medium I found very impressive.
He became a healer and cured me of a slip disc problem which I tried
about fifteen different therapies for which in fact he surely did in one go.
I mean that was quite extraordinary, witnessed by orthopedic surgeons who said they just
can't explain this. This is normally takes at least two years and for the
ulner nerve to regrow and mine took about half an hour, so they are
and that was me, so I know it happened, Yes, And well,
I suppose that Urigether can be considered as a medium. I certainly was
impressed by him, and we're still very good friends after twenty five years.
And I can't think of any others offhand, but there have been, well,
some of the Brazilian ones I met were very good, and on the
whole I tender rather steer tear of them because they very often don't need to
lead anywhere. I mean, they come up with all kinds of wonderful remarks
which you can't very high and yeah, I don't really need them. I
mean I just put that rather low down my scale of priorities. Right,
So they don't use them at the society, then we'll use them at all.
I mean people have members have been along to check them out for themselves,
and sometimes they they witnessed things they find interesting and sometimes they don't.
So on the whole, it's not really an area the majority of SBR members
concentrate to head on. There are so many others which are rather more amenable
to investigation. Going back to the m Field case. Dave Lloyd would like
to know where it went. Sorry, what was the overall conclusion of the
case in the end or the explanation both? Really? What did you think
of the end? Well, at the end was a colossal anti climax,
because you know, if this was the film, do you expect sort of
dramatic exhaucisms and beams and yells and so on. That we had none of
that, and all we had was this rather chassy turned Dutch medium who turned
up a Dutch friend of mine and journalists from Membster down and said he knew
a man who said he could stop it. So he said would I liked
him to bring him over? And I said yes, we do want to
stop it please. So he brought him over and he stopped it. I
mean, that's it. Really. He didn't apparently do anything much. He
took the girls up the road and bought them an ice cream. Is nice,
and then he came back and he sat on his own in their bedroom
alone. Well, they were waiting downstairs, and then he came downstairs and
he just said, well, I think it's gone. And this may have
been a brilliant piece of suggestion. It was sort of hypnotic suggestion. But
whatever it was, it worked, and from from that day on we had
only one very brief outburst a couple of months later, which was only a
couple of days and not very serious, and then after that nothing, So
it really is sort of fade out or rather than climax. Did I mean
somewhere there's a new study going on about it? What about infield? Or
yes? Was there a new study going to be taken on it? Uh,
not that I can think of it. They there was another study of
actually of us, I mean we were investigating gross and they had a special
committee THEESPR called Epic Infield Politicized Investigation Committee, which was headed by lawyer Mary
Rose Barrington, who is still with us, thankfully, and they questioned as
many of the witnesses as he could, rather as if they had been in
court, I mean, I mean, rather more gentive. But they questioned
all the family and chief investigators, and they concluded that the case was genuine.
So that was useful. It was something to do with using some of
the recordings from the case apparently, so that's probably what you're talking about.
Well, we still got all the recordings, about two hundred hours of it,
and they are in the process of being transcribed well, in factly they
have been transcribed for five hundred pages of a four single spaced quite a lot,
and they will eventually, I hope, find their way onto a disc
so that people can come and listen to them. They can't yet, but
they will. It's a massive job and quite expensive that we are getting there.
A couple of more questions on a different line of subject. People want
to know what you what you think of the programs that are on TV,
like The Ghost of Ventures, Haunted collector Most Haunted. What's the best TV
programs show that you've seen? Or do you not watch? The easy question.
They don't have a TV set, right, that's the answer to that
one. Okay, occasionally look at stuff on the on the iPlayer. I'm
not in the least interested in these sort of funny programs of work goes.
No, I've never seen any of them, right, Okay. One thing
I'd like to ask is what have you learned about the Polterkaist phenomena after all
these years? Who That's a very tough one, really, I mean,
I've learned how they how they behave and roughly what to expect, but as
to the actual explanation of why they happened and why they're so rare, because
they are extremely rare, you know, they it's impossible to say a percentage
of people who suffer that it's well under a fraction of one percent. I
mean, it's the farm will actually to be struck by lightning and they have
a pologist in your house. Yeah, it's It doesn't seem to make any
sense to me why it should be so rare. I mean, if it
happened at all, it should happen quite often. But everything else seems to
happen quite often and well, quite regularly, and under certain conditions that we
we we can't we really can't say what the conditions are. I mean,
they most cases in world literature, they tend to go for the unfortunate,
poorer classes rather than the rich ones. Although we are actually checking out a
report right now that there was something that sounds very much like a Poltigeuist in
the former residence no less than Margaret Thatcher in Belgradeia somewhere what's it called Chester
Square and it was still working on now, and there could be quite fun.
It didn't last very long, and it was apparently only reported one particular
incident, but it was a very odd one. Yeah, and again I
think I'd like to wait until we a little bit more. We are trying
to track down the original security guard who was there, who is apparently wilting
to talk, but we can't. He had found him, so that should
be quite quite funny. Is the m phil ghost Sorry, the m phil
poltergeist case? Was that the first recorded one in England or anywhere or well,
nothing like They've been recorded since the eighth century. The earliest one has
been probably written up was the German town of Bingen. A certain lady I
can't remember her name in Bingen who've got Polta ghosted and some local probably the
local priest or somebody anyway, it wrote a quite detailed account of the case.
They had him around for more than a thousand years. Yeah, I
mean they the church has always taken an interest because they always assumed to be
the work of the devil. Thanks to Martin Lucer, I think Roseburton quite
quite often, he's one of the first to use the word pro the ghost.
He didn't coin h as it sometimes suggested. It was definitely in use
in German in fifteenth century, and Luther, of course wrote early in the
sixteenth and he referred to Poltageist as if he assume everybody would know who they
were, and also that they were the work of the devil. So that
was the explanation and stuck for ages, and it still is. I mean,
we get reports from all over the world in the spr and a lot
of them from Africa, where they've got all sorts of beliefs in spirits of
various kinds, and they ascribe it to that. And it's different in every
culture. They've all got their own traditional belief system, and yet the phenomena
are always the same. It's extraordinary how similar they all are. Was it
that with the event? Was it the only one that you was involved in
that made the newspapers. No, I've been involved in several. There was
another very very good one which we did, tried to do at the same
time in Croydon in a pub which has changed its name now as the one
in the main shopping mountain. The center used to be called the King's Sellers.
He's now called Goody's Wine Bath. And that that was a fascinating case.
It was written up very well by Colin Wilson, who sadly died recently,
and he went there and did a very very good job. He turned
out to be assumed a good investigator and wrote it up that I wrote a
old chapter about it in his book on politic Aristan recommend I'll have to look
at that, David Liz, I'd like to know have you ever experienced experienced
time displacement? No? Okay, quick, can't swer us one right.
And over the years, obviously you've been involved in a few things. But
on the society side of it, what other things do you actually deal with?
I know we've had you on for the twin therapy. What other topics
do you actually deal with? What other subjects, well, whatever comes along.
I mean, to people a very common appeal as somebody who's heard strange
noises or something funny has happened in the house. And very often we find
that the cause is absolutely normal. It's usually plumbing, yes, or else
expansion joints in houses till the frames. They can make a fantastic racket.
I mean, I live in a very old house and in the summer you
think was a podgosia old time. I mean the middle of the night you
can suddenly hear tremendous got creek and thumbson, and that's that's caused by beams.
And my Solly is noisy around here as well. So there are all
kinds of normal, but coming coming is the main one. I comming to
make a frightful racket every time my neighbor upstairs has a shower that there's a
outbreak of politics in down down down here, and sort of rumbling rattling and
something. I just don't even notice it anymore. So how are the family
now, mister playfair Well? The mothers died a few years ago, sadly,
and the two girls both married and living a long way from Enfield.
And I don't want any more to do with the post at all. I'm
still in touch with Janet, but I have agreed to not to let anybody
have her details and where she is hold of us image, He's not available,
and no, I'm completely oken off contact with everybody else except her.
Yeah, I understand that David Liz would like to know during any of your
investigations, do you have have you ever believed that you may have taken anything
home with you? No? I think Morris Gross may not agree. I
think he did well. I don't think he took them home. I think
they were there already. He was a bit of a medium himself. He
all sorts of very odd things happening, is some of which I witnessed,
and one or two of them really were extremely peculiar. I think I've mentioned
most of them in this in my book. But he bore up very well,
and I don't think he was permanently affected in any way by what he
went through. And I think maybe my experience in Brazil, where they the
local spirits have ways of keeping himself sort of immunized against malevolent attack, seems
to work. And now I was having a chat with my friendly local policeman
at the time, I remember, and he'd just come back from from covering
an extremely violent right in the picket line and he was saying he'd be scared
to go into a haunted house. I thought, hell, I'd be terrified
to do what he does. Couldn't find a mob of screaming the strikers throwing
rocks at him. And he thought it was all part of the job.
And I said, well, this is all part of mine. I mean,
we we have our own speciality, is I couldn't do your job and
maybe you can't do mine. So that's how society works best. I think
if we all do our own thing as well as we can, don't try
to do everything. Now that when we talk about poltergeist they say that it
means noisy ghost. Is this your theory or do you think it's just normal
spirit? Well, it's correct. Poltageist is the German word. Is it
evil? No. Poulton simply simply is the ford meaning to make, make
a racket, and for example, a German for a stag party as a
poulter aband, it means an evening where you get together and have a good
booze up and sing Solomon, make at of rackets and give gives the blank
the good send off. That's what pultan means. And poltageist is simply that
spirit who makes a lot of racket. And in the sixteenth century they also
used to call them rumpelgeist charming, which means much the same and make a
purr uisance of themselves and racket. They are really an extraordinary mystery. I
mean, they've been around in or everywhere all over the world for centuries,
and yet we haven't got a faint idea what they are, or we don't
have any really reliable way of stopping them. There's a bit of first aid.
If anybody's listening, whoever has trouble with the politicist, the immediate thing
to do is to separate the family and send the children off to Auntie or
grandma or somebody that. Just just break the group up, because it tends
to be a collective group thing. You don't get politicost if you do on
your own. I can't think of any offhand. So that's what to do
in an emergency. But of course it's only short term. As soon as
the family come back from Grandma, I don't all start again. But it
gives you certain relief relief at the time. Okay, and one more question.
What was the one investigation that you've been on that may have made you
sit back and think what am I doing? I think that every day about
everything. So well. I mean, when I when I decided to be
a freelance writer, I did whatever came along. I mean, initially,
to start with, I wrote whatever I could sell, and I used to
do very respectable articles about economics, balance of payment, and oil exports and
hydro electric dams. And all that sort of stuff, and then I discovered
the weird outside of Brazilian society with all these pods gusts, which I thought
were a lot more fun than hydro electric downs, and so they are.
And I just I've written about all sorts of other things, including more recently
twins, which I found extremely interesting. And yes, it was an interesting
interview we had with you. Well that's going very well. Know, I
have a PhD student at London University studying twins and apathy, which has never
happened before anywhere. That's a complete first, and that is thanks to my
book. I'm cats saying. That's really very gratifying. I do like to
do things properly and get useful in evidence. And the twin research is going
very well, and it's we're working on ways of making it repeatable, which
is not easy, and finding out what kind of twin can do it,
which they not all of them can, but it's becoming quite clearer conditions and
also the personalities involved. So we have made a lot of progress in a
short time. And that really is I find the most interesting thing I've ever
done, and certainly planning to do more. Yeah, yeah, well done.
That so well, i'd just like to say thank you for joining us
again today this evening and talking to about the Enfield Ghost, Enville Poltergeist.
Sorry, and it's been a fascinating subject. Everybody really does enjoy it,
I must admit, because I suppose, really and truthfully it was a benchmark
for some people, you know, to try and find out more about the
poltergeist. Well, keep your eyes up for an announcement from Sky. I
don't know what they're going to do with the the story. It might be
complete rubbish that the raised raised the it's going to be called the Enfield something
or other. Yeah. I did see your interview with a Poltergeist on YouTube
this week which was very interesting. Oh yeah, Well, well, this
is a dramatic serial they're doing. I think it's been three parts, what
only sort of a successor to Borgan or The Kidding of Something. It's got
a very classy Danish director coming over and all sorts of quite well known actors.
But I shouldn't give any details until Sky announces, which I'm sure they're
about to do. In fact, I'm meeting them on Tuesday where they'll tell
me then, so you'll be hearing about it I'm sure that they will thank
their published publicity machine into action and everybody in probably in the country will know
about it. I should probably run away and hide, I think, but
at least it's going to make the case to revive interest and hopefully sell more
books, which is what I did for a living, so that'd be nice.
Yes, definitely. Your last book that you wrote on this was back
in April twenty eleven, I believe. Well, I had one reissued.
The last new book was a little short one I did about Secret Chavier,
the Brazilian medium, and I did another one about reincarnation for the Drew's Heritage
Foundation, who commissioned it, and that went very well and did very nicely.
And the twin book is known. It's the third edition, and hopefully
one day there will be a new one. Do you have any messages for
the investigators out there in the mainstream, the mainstream of what you know?
There's so many investigating organizations out there now, do you have any messages for
them? What would your you know, your best advice piece of advice you
would give them. Yeah, I'd say concentrate on the facts and getting them
properly recorded. Don't worry too much about the explanations, as nobody else that's
got them. But what we need is better evidence, and we've now got
all these wonderful portable cameras and mobile phones and whatever, and the evidence is
getting better. And as the Australians demonstrated with that thermal camera, in modern
technology you can't can be extremely useful. So just just get all the ewdents
you can and let us know that the SBR you think it's a really good
case that needs following up, and then write it up yourself and get a
good published somewhere. Okay, Well, thanks very much mister Playfair. It's
been an honor speaking to you again. Hello, welcome and I wish you
were the best of luck in your future endeavors. Thank you. Okay,
and if you have any other topic that comes under this genre that you may
think would be interesting in we'd be loving to speak to you about it.