Hello entrepreneurs, how are you welcome to one more session of start- up
Scoffit Tolks Finance Division, where in company of Make Business Flow with its great
leaders both Krina Rase and Gusto in Kine and who today does not accompany us.
However, we send you a greeting from here, from our great podcast
of startups oft Tolks Flow and Auguston that you recover soon and we have the
following podcast. However, today we have two great guests of very high caliber,
of great interest in investment, finance and everything that this great audience of
startups and maglingnef Slow love to talk about the numbers of companies, of entrepreneurship,
of great things that we are doing and above all, bringing guests of
very high level so that you entrepreneur, entrepreneur or company director, can learn
and make decisions more in line with what is doing today. And, well,
I' d like to start. First, I' d like to
introduce Valentina Truco, who is an economist, has a master' s degree
in capital markets. She is the founder of investing in one click, investing
your money, boosting your income, those parts of your log and has more
than twenty- five years managing portfolios of investment of up to a billion dollars,
nothing more than institutional investment such as Portfolio, Manager, Anchis, Investmen,
Officer at VNP, Paribas, Ast Management, Megaqam and the General Group
Savings and Insurance Fund. And we also have another great guest of very high
value. Also an investment expert. Anouvernuez is an economist master of finance and
s cf in Charle Holder, with more than a decade of experience in the
financial sector as a chair of questos alvisory and founder of fin is With purpose
he stands out with his expertise in heritage management and financial partnership, with a
client- centered approach. Nau is an enthusiast of business and the creation of
business and financial content, ensuring the construction of solid and responsible businesses. Well
as you see it, guys, where we have both Valentina and Nut today
two great leaders in finance and investment issues who talked to us. So we
were welcomed and started welcome to Stark Cups Copy Tolks, the first podcast designed
by the incubator and accelerator of Stark Cups companies and conducted by Alejandro Lómez.
Our main objective is to connect more entrepreneurs with the innovation and Penture Capital ecosystem
in Mexico, Latin America and the Licon Valley. While we enjoy a delicious
cup of coffee together. We started before we started the podcast. I'
d like to welcome you to my co- host that today we have two
important cohts. First time, Carina Razzi, Carina how you are Hello.
Thank you so much for being here again. I love this podcast. It
gets more and more interesting and I love to share it with these guests,
with Valen and Nahuel. And thank you, Carina. And we also have
Mauro, who has already had the podcast, but now he has to be
on the side of the questions like us, who will accompany us, to
talk with our great team of guests Mauro, how you are. Thank you
very much. He' s excited. I feel like listening to Valentina and
fantastic anahuel. Thank you, well, let' s not waste any more
time and talk directly about investments. I' d like to talk to Valentina
first. Valentina tell me first where this taste for investments comes from. You
account for a little of your career as a professional, the investment and finance
part and how you can fall in love for anyone can invest in these types
of projects today. Well, all right, thank you very much for the
invitation, Alejandro and Carina. Well, I always liked economics already since high
school I was doing an ending that in Argentina is called a mercantile expert,
but they have to do with accounting with economics. Well, every mathematical relationship
and then I went to study in the city of Santa Fe, then I
went to study in Cordoba. There I studied my degree in economics and once
I received my degree I did an internship at the Córdoba Stock Exchange. That
' s where I grabbed his little taste. The last subjects of the Bachelor
' s degree in economics I chose subjects that were optional and I already started
to choose mathematics, finance, capital market, etcetera. So that' s
where I got the taste. And well and once I came to Buenos Aires,
because at that time it was one thousand nine hundred and ninety- five,
there was not much development of the labor market in Córdoba, I came
to Buenos Aires and there I already went to work in Lima, which is
the Stock Exchange of what is called the Buenos Aires Stock Exchange. I worked
there for four years. I did the UVA capital market graduate, which is
also related to the Good Stock Exchange and that' s where I started my
career. Then I went to BNP Paribas managing mutual funds. I also worked
at Mega Come, which is Argentina' s fourth independent manager and, finally,
I also worked at the Caja, which is Argentina' s third insurance
company and belongs to the Grupo General Italiano, as portfolio manager and investment director.
So I dedicated my entire career well specialized in investments and now I'
m invested in a click that is a personal development and to teach any individual
to invest their money just as the slogan says to invest your money to boost
your income, because just as I invested the money as I invested the money
of big institutional investors that are called in financial jargon, which are big companies
that always have cash surplus, let' s say, and who are well
invested to make profits, just as it is made for a company or for
an institutional reverse. The same thing you can do with your money and more
now than with technology is very easy to access, because either, for example,
you can access investments through your home banking account in your bank, which,
in the case of Argentina, almost 100% of people have a bank
account and you can make your investments there or you can have an account in
a stock exchange broker that in Argentina is called ALIX and you can also make
your investments. So now, technologically, from your phone or computer, you
can make all the investments, buy, sell or apply byan haal strategies that
it is to buy for the long term. So it' s very easy
to do it. But well, what this financial education lacks to invest,
because it does not exist in schools in some countries of the world is already
becoming mandatory, especially in the more developed countries, such as the Nordic countries,
for example. Now I know that in Italy there is also beginning to
be financial education in high school. That' s gonna happen. I think
it' s a global trend and it' s going to happen, because
it' s a big deal. But, well, for now we have
to do. What we can do is offer courses or educational platforms, teach
and have specialized courses so that anyone can learn from the financial assets that they
can use for just to invest their money and empower themselves without besoon, not
only for goals as well. You can have short-, medium- to
long- term goals, because precisely if you think about retirements, which would
be the longest- term of a person, we know that retirements are going
to cover fewer and fewer percentages of income, for example, in Argentina,
when you retire, you receive between thirty and fifty percent of the last salary
you had and that is going to decrease. So it' s good that
you start investing your money, no matter how old you are to go thinking
about your future long- term income. On the other hand, also with
the global trend of longevity that we are going to live more and more years,
it is important that one is thinking well about what I can go investing
and know all the financial assets that we have available in the future to be
in the last stage of your life with better income and fantastic quality of life.
Thank you very much, because I believe that today all the people who
are interested in putting investments and those portfolios that do not know how it works.
Today is a moment because we have an expert who has handled more than
a billion dollars and surely your money and now you can mane They can know
how it is controlled, how they manage to invest and why yes, why
not, Fantastic and thank you very much, Valentina. I would also like
to ask, before starting with podcast your entire area. Also ask Nahuell Bert
Nuez if I am not wrong in your name that today I will call you
na to avoid conflicts. Now give us a little bit of your context,
where you come from, what you do, what was also your spirit of
falling in love with finance and numbers. How you got to this place.
Well, brother, thank you so much for inviting me to ale Karil.
The truth is that I' m delighted to be here and, in a
similar way, Valentina, also perhaps easily by the numbers in high school.
I also like everything related to the social. So I saw in the economics
career, that I know that they played that numerical part and also some social
issues, so I went that way and the finances went on, not so
much for the academic part, because the economics career has practically nothing of finance,
at least at the University of Buenos Aires, where I studied the career,
but more for the business side and to undertake and to cross into work
with people who perhaps invested. And it was there that I was bitten by
the bug as we say here of the investments and I was lucky enough to
make my first investments over there, by the two thousand eight two thousand nine,
in the middle of a crisis, buying a bond from Argentina, logically
with a lot of risk associated, but they were practically at defolt prices and
the following year they were worth twice as much. So I think that was
a big part of the first crush I had on investments and from there,
always good, very involved in science and counseling. I think that, as
Valentina said very well, here, in Argentina and also throughout Latin America,
much more financial education is needed from an early age and good, the finance
professionals and those of us in the industry, I think that we have that
responsibility to communicate and also show that the market is to protect them and there
are regulators and that it is not a timba, nor are we all vultures
who are in the marked, but that there are many people who are here
to help them, to protect them, particularly since this us ad iser and
that it is my company. We are dedicated to counseling and perhaps there,
as opposed to Valentina' s business, which is very good, which helps
to invest more easily. We position ourselves more from the side of counseling,
from the side of investing and seeking advice in professionals who are dedicated to that
so that they accompany you and help you. I think they are two necessary
legs, because I constantly meet people who understand absolutely nothing is very afraid to
know what the capital market is and the capital market is designed to protect those
investors. So I think it' s essential that we see all the part
of regulations and the trust duty we have for fantastic customers. Thank you very
much, And you will be wondering, entrepreneurs and business friends, why we
have so much high- level guest in financial and entertainment issues, because the
goal of this podcast we are going to face a lot in the economy,
finance and investments of Argentina. As you know, today it has taken a
global focus on what is happening now that it won my law brings many very
drastic changes. It' ll be good, it' ll be bad.
What really happens in Argentina. Argentines how they feel, what they do.
And for that I would also like to welcome to suck Oro Ferrero, who
you think is an expert on the subject. And let' s do this
podcast now more than interview a debate where we' ll talk about investments,
why invest, than invest and how to do it. If that' s
all right with you, I would also like to introduce Mauro. Thank you
very much. Ale bueno I come from the branch of economics. I'
m the accountant. I am a professor at the University of Buenos Aires for
financial degrees in Usema and I live in this. But more than talking about
me, the truth is that I kept thinking a lot about what Valentina and
Nahuel said, because finding data the other day there is a high correlation in
the population that has the highest quality of life. There is a high correlation,
in knowledge, in mathematics and in investment in the capital market. Those
who live better have more savings destined to the capital market that allows them,
on the one hand, to plan their future. And, second, what
Valentina proposed, which is super interesting, not only in Argentina, but worldwide,
is that the length of life is going to spread more and more.
And those retirement systems, which were thought almost eighty years ago, are now
becoming obsolete and the State or whoever proposes that solution with previous systems, is
proposing a solution to a problem that is already completely different. So, for
those who still have an active life, start planning for their retirement privately advised
or in personal terms, because those who are outside our inner circle will not
solve it for us. And that is a great pain that we have again,
not only in Argentina or especially in Argentina, but that is a situation
that is being posed in several countries, in several regions, where quality of
life leads us to live practically a hundred years. I totally believe that the
canes we are living today so much that we even had a podcast talking about
longevity and we saw that we live more and more and more and so many
lives fearing more than living better, not so much in health as in economics.
What' s the point of living more and you' re not going
to miss food issues, economics issues, room issues. I' d like
to ask you, Carina, because the focus of this podcast, as we
commented on the beginning, is going to be a bit of a debate so
that people who are interested in investing today, whether they live in Argentina or
outside Argentina, will really be a good place for Argentina to virtur today.
Let' s see today' s day, Karina Racic, I' d
like you to start with the subject. Yes, it is important for you,
as Argentina, to be able to invest today in your great country.
The first issue is that I am a woman and women are more conservative to
invest than men. In many cases we do better. In fact, it
is proving that women, when we invest in companies and so on, the
results are very good. I believe that there is a very important investment opportunity
in Argentina, because the change of government, which has a tendency to free
markets, makes it very tempting is like a desert that is discovered and that
begins to sprout vegetation. That is what is happening with Argentina, unlike other
markets that are highly regulated. For example, the European market is highly regulated.
Not many people want to invest here tax issue, in highly developed markets
that also chemically investments a little and well, and the American capital market,
which in itself is where we are all learning the Saxon markets. Because I
' m not just saying the American. While you were talking, I thought
why I had studied finance. I was remembering that and because I like money,
because I' m not good at math. I was never good at
math. They were all geniuses in my house, and I was having a
hell of a fight. Then I went to study finance because I provoked that
to be able to do business and to be able to invest and I studied
at the University of New York, which is the university where all the students
came from. They were going to work at Wall Streep. Then it was
normal for me. For me it was super normal to understand what not in
investments since that moment, because being in a drink in that environment that context,
for us it was super normal to talk about investments and so on,
and we understood perfectly that if we are going to invest in the capital market,
we are protected and we do it through certified people. There are people
who know and expert people, like Valentina and Nahuell. That' s also
the fear there is. I meet with many entrepreneurs that I advise, not
at the level of financial investments that always send them, Nahuell, but at
the company level where they have a cash and do not know what to do.
Then and no, but I say good go talk to Nau and ask
him what you can do with that cash. No nauy happens to us a
lot that scares them. They don' t want to send the information,
they don' t trust the person who has to see you. So these
are the issues that over time, I would like to go from extracting that
the certified people who have studied and have specialized are able to help you,
not only will you get benefit from what your company produces, or from the
technology that your company has, or the business that your company has, but
you can also get benefits from the profit that the company has from profits.
And today, in Argentina it is very important to complement those things and to
take advantage of the fact that we have a President we may like less,
but his head is totally economic. He really knows economy. Then we are
led by a person who rea so easily understands and knows the need for capital
markets. So I would invest in Argentina. The truth would tell me because
I' m not as good as this math as it' s worth or
as a nabuel but I' m alive in business, so I do pick
up there so, well, here' s a very similar subject. In
my case, I love finance. It wasn' t taking for math,
but mine was more the creative part, the event part, the marketing part.
However, more than that, I am the only one who is not
Argentine in this podcast and I am the one who has even more doubts than
you to see. I was one, a person who lived very close to
ten the change that Mexico had, of the change of the eighties that is
right now the two thousand is when it was a closed economy, that there
was no foreign or domestic trade, that is, it did not matter or
export anything. When the market was tested in the trading trade, it was
a big boom for Mexico. Actually, Mexico changed the one before today and
the economy grew enormously. Today, good. Thanks to foreign investment from the
United States, Canada, Europe, Asia to Mexico, the country grew quite
well. Today it is what this growth endures us. However, I would
like to think to see, externally or externally, if I am not Argentine,
I am Mexican. It could also be a good option for outdoors to
start investing in Argentina, i e foreigners. He invested in Argentina. What
do you think, Valentina? You also laugh at the idea that it is
a time for people to invest right now, because it is understood that when
there is a time of skinny cows, it is time to invest, when
the cow is getting fat, because already a moment to sell. Today is
the time for you to look. It is a great moment in Argentina,
because precisely, as Tarina commented, the government changed. We had many years
of Chrysnerism, which belongs to the political party Peronism, but that schisnerism was
more left oriented. Let' s say in terms of political science, and
this is my law that is libertarian. So it' s on the other
side of the pendulum and notice that, for example, the country risk,
which is the difference between the return on an Argentina bond and a risk book
bond that would be, for example, the United States bond. It was
at two thousand and five hundred points last year and it already went down to
one thousand and five hundred points and it' s still a long way off.
So it still has the good of Argentina in dollars, in the good
sovereigns in dollars they still have an upside, because our country risk could reach
about seven hundred points if the economy and economic policy and politics are accompanying this
new mandate of Miley and if everything goes well, we should continue to reduce
the risk country to be closer to similar countries or for the same rating of
risk as Argentina. So that' s the spearhead so that then all the
other assets, for example, the dollar merval, which is about a thousand
two hundred points, could also go up together with when the risk country goes
down, so also in the term stock market, could also come to make
a good investment but always thinking that Argentina let' s say if we put
ourselves in those financial assets as you don' t sovereign in dollars or shares,
they are aggressive financial assets. So you have to be prepared so that
in the short term there can be an important downfall and you have to think
that if you make any bets of that kind, it has to be rather
long- term. Or if we don' t say a fairly high risk
tolerance, because it' s within the assets that' s the most risky
thing to say in that sense, so it can fall pretty much in the
short term and they' d be located. If I have myself compared to
America, it' s the biggest stock market. It represents 40 per cent
of the total value of listed companies worldwide. I' d tell you if
you assume I invest in St Quinnient or the Nasda 100. Let' s
say that they are the most representative indices of the stock exchange, that is,
the five hundred largest companies through the five hundred samp, are the hundred
largest technology companies in the United States and these are active, let' s
say aggressive. I would be quoting myself with Argentina towards more, to the
right, that is, it would be like super aggressive. Yeah, yeah,
I' d be investing there. But well, it is a very
good time, already from the two thousand twenty- three, that the Stock
Exchange has been going up a lot in terminen and in dollars, both with
good sovereigns, in Argentine dollars or through the merbal, which is the index
of the local stock exchange. Excellent, I count the perspective that an Argentine
entrepreneur has today, for example, someone who knows that it is difficult to
make resources for being an entrepreneur. It is complicated and sometimes in a country
with a high level of risk such as that of Argentina, which is changing
for certain the idea of saying good. I have a gold management that I
have left over what I invest in, how you see, for example,
in this context that companies are investing, they are doing it, they are
not doing it. Valentina in financial terms, whenever the company has an excess
case, is investing in fact, let' s say the one through which
companies invest and often put through mutual funds of investment. Argentina’ s pooled
investment fund industry handles about thirty billion dollars. I mean, they' re
Argentine pesos, but I' m saying it in terms of dollars to be
understood, because the company figure would be huge. But eighty percent of almost
ninety percent of these thirty billion are companies that have a surplus of liquidity and
need to protect their assets because, as Karina rightly said, they have to
protect capital. And that surplus that either can be short- term, that
can be done through a fund, either short- term, man and market
or if you need it for a few months, may be investing in a
fund as a fixed- income investment with assets that are linked and inflation.
Then it protects it with purchasing power and maintains purchasing power through that fund,
or it can be a fund that is investing in dollar sovereign bonds that is
also protecting it from evaluating the official exchange rate or if it may already not
need the money for longer or has a horizon of three five years, it
may be investing in these more aggressive assets that we talked about before, be
it Argentine nerval or sovereign bonds in dollars. So there is always an asset
available to companies and just as companies invest, so one as an individual,
can do the same. That sounds very interesting. That is available to all
people, wow through a bank account or through a broute. That' s
very good to know here I would like to ask, for example, nau
A Nobel, how you expert in finance and also expert in the management of
those assets of people and or companies, what would you suggest to do today.
I guess a lot of people are afraid as Karina tells us, there
are people who have a very good risk, a very small risk fiction.
And there are those who say we' re going to throw it all over
or we' re going to make our heritage grow this way. What is
your belief that these heritages normally do today well, first by making differentiation.
Whether we are in Argentina or not, is there a way to manage heritages
in Argentina and another way outside Argentina? Why I say this, because there
are still change controls in Argentina that do not allow efficient management of the heritage
and we have to deal with all the current regulations that to us, the
advisors and those who manage those heritages, complicate our lives a little, but
well we adjust, adapt and act in consequence. Let' s go first
for the easiest thing that' s investing outside of Argentina. Outside Argentina,
as Valentina rightly said, are the letters of the U S Treasury, which
today yield approximately five percent annually in dollars, so for that investor who comes
from outside the market, it is a luxury for us to be able to
have an instrument that historically yields well. No, I mean, we have
an instrument that yields two three percent. Real positive cup that will allow that
investor who does not know, who is afraid or who is testing, to
see that every day earns a little bit of money. That' s very
good for you to understand this. Four years ago it was practically zero.
Or one here is a quick question, because in Mexico we already have more
than a year and a half, almost two years with one with a tesorro
monkey, eleven point three, eleven point five percent, something that had never
happened. We were always the same in the four, five six, when
we' ve been very good for a year and a half with the eleven
point three and they just gave the information. We still have a change of
government. As you know, we have a couple of weeks with a new,
new amount of candidate who won, who is going to enter in a
couple of months, already as President, but he is keeping things interesting,
maintained and seeming to be stuck the year with the next one. Eleven point,
three, how you see, as Argentines and as god management, Mexico
as a place to invest. Yes or no. We are far from being
able to invest in Mexico for Argentine women in general. First, because first
you have to get the money out of Argentina, which is not an easy
thing. And second, because we look at the United States, I love
Mexico, the Mexicans. But if you' re going to choose me,
give me the risk- free one, which is what you do. We
' re allowed to say that it' s the letters of the United States
at five percent and I forget. I don' t think, after so
many years of not having instruments or having to work hard to get a five
percent ninety dollars. That' s non brainer, as they say, investing
in America' s treasure letters at five percent. Yeah. It seems to
me that this is the main stumbling block that the major countries of the world
have today, because the letter of America' s treasure is a vacuum of
dollars and investments, especially for those who are out of the market and do
not know. First let me play the devil' s lawyer a little bit
and comment that, back to what Valentina said about Argentina' s bonds,
they are a super interesting instrument. Today, what we have to look at
is with great care the maturity of debt that Argentina has, as a sovereign
country Today we have good values that go between forty and fifty- five dollars
when one looks at the maturities that are after two thousand twenty- six,
from two thousand twenty- six to two thousand thirty. It is a little
difficult to visualize a State that can pay all that debt, which also raises
doubts as to whether the State will have to restructure those bonds again. When
we pool the debt of public bonds, multilateral agencies and see the prices they
have today, I think the greatest fear comes from the side of the investment
opportunity, but from the side of the ability to pay that state and then
from the side of playing the devil' s wedding with Nahuel. Let'
s also be careful about US bonds, because as long as the United States
manages to effectively control inflation, we' ll see in the short term.
We should also look at who will be the winner of the elections in the
United States this year and the term and geopolitical issue. But if everything normalizes,
we should see cups down. This as well to generate a little bit
of going back and forth in the conversation. And going back a little to
Argentina, I think that the suva we had in almost all the financial assets
in the last eight months has to do with an expectation that Kari commented is
a completely different person that does not come from the political stick that he has
been ruling in the last thirty years and that every appreciation that the Argentine market
has had has to do with the expectation and that now what we have to
see is if that becomes reality. I think that the government had a great
victory with the basic law, which brings some structural changes and a few not
so many, but that the next rise or increase in price or value of
financial assets has to do no longer with expectations, but with real facts.
The reality is that it is a good fact to know that every month inflation
drops. The data that is still accompanying us is the activity, is the
growth of some macro- economic variables that determine whether the country grows or not.
And I think that is the biggest challenge that Argentina has and in particular,
ale with what you ask me is whether the investor or the owner of
companies is going to invest more in their projects, because if no one assures
me that I will sell more next month and next month and next month,
it is uneconomic to make an investment in a country whose risk is very high
on a historical level, interesting row, forgiveness alería. While you are talking
and there we mention several countries, I also wanted to say that we have
the concept and I studied it in the Union, that countries do not merge,
that fish do not break down and in fact, the United States in
financial terms is broken. We look at America' s accounts. It'
s broken because how it sustains its economy by issuing and what it issues are
bonds, what America has of good, is that it does good marketing.
What that means is that all countries, as they say, are close to
the United States because they have legal certainty. The United States has legal certainty.
They aspire to such emissions and make the illusion not rise. Then inflation
is maintained and good and potential economic conditions are maintained for business and economic security
and legal certainty, which is what Mauro has just talked about. Then this
they knew how to build very well the Americans. For now we all want
to invest in America. But deep down you have to look not only at
which President is coming in, but at how the US deficit continues, which
is increasing. Sometimes it doubles, triples, because we are investing in a
country that is in critical financial conditions. And after that it is interesting Argentina,
because Argentina already lower than what Argentina arrived, I think no country will
arrive. Well, we have very poor countries, which are very low and
growing, as in Africa, for example, in Africa, the African countries
that are evolving. There are even people who invest in African countries a lot
because they are growing, there is a lot of food production. At the
time, Africa had no water for investment to cheer up, to invest because
to produce anything you need water. But in Argentina we have all kinds of
assets and raw material potential, which makes it a lot more interesting and we
come from the Fund, from the fund, from the Fund of the Sea.
So, that' s why I say that if you' re really
interested in finance, you have a platform like Valentina' s, you'
re advisors like Valentina and like Nahuell, don' t miss this opportunity,
don' t miss this opportunity for your money to double or triple. You
have to be patient, as Valentina says, because many people are afraid,
ponies, take out, put out, buy, sell, It doesn'
t have to be an activity the financiers. It is an activity of discipline,
discipline and patience, because if here, if you put and decide,
you lose the channel. On the contrary, you lose silver then good same
with real estate. Not when you buy a property says good. I have
to have it so, time if it' s for an investment, because
pretty much I' m gonna give up so much good. That is a
building that is bricks, which is what was classically invested in Argentina. Okay.
Now, when you start investing in these assets, you have to be
patient and you have to have discipline, but you also have to see the
macroeconomic context. You cannot be unaware that the situation in the United States and
Europe, for example, that there is a war can affect you. Then
advise yourself to ask those who know here you have in this podcast two people.
Well Mauro, it can also help you contact them by Linkedin asking them
to see if they can help you. Obviously that by charging their fees,
as appropriate, but better the cheap, it' s expensive clear you won
' t get done. No one' s going to give you an expert
person, they' re not going to give you free advice, but surely
you' re going to get it back quickly with the investments you make that
expense you made and, at least, you' re going to have your
money working and you' re not going to have it stopped. Whether you
' re a company or an individual advised by people who know. But this
context I wanted to say because we can no longer think that countries do not
catch on. Then you really have to have expert people like them, like
those three Mauro nau Valen who help you and tell you exactly where you have
to put the money. Yes, no doubt and as naut comments I also
understand the issue that we have to give people who are dedicated to supporting other
sensionists, to investing their money. In my case, I am, as
heali investor, my investment union that you attend. Support for new people You
know you' re emissionists to invest in venture capital. And normally what I
do is we make investments in Silicon Valle, in California, in the United
States, for the security that the marketing that gives offers that security. However,
there have already been large returns investing outside the United States. For example,
we have made some investments in Chile, even with Argentines, also in
Mexico, and the doctor has been fantastic. Of course, it doesn'
t have the same marketing that America has. It is necessary to work four
or five times more in convincing thus meciorist to see their capital in such a
project. I imagine that on the issue of stock exchange investments and bond investments
is exactly the same. On the ground is another important issue, because well,
that' s not that you miss the only problem that would happen is
that, as Querina says, the country can melt. What happened we asked,
what happened to Venezuela, for example, not how many Americans made investments
in Venezuela or Cuba and after those problems they had. Well, I don
' t know how it is today. However, the United States also has
something. He' s got a tail to step on, too. You
don' t see so much in the calm waters. You see interesting things
right now. What a pin n u n n o respect, since everyone,
instead of the United States, has what opinion they have regarding what is
coming in the future and can be future a couple of months coming to December.
I still don' t know how to burn No, for example,
I think it' s very good what you mention, what Kari also mentioned
with regard to geopolitical conflicts Today we see a geopolitical conflict practically all over the
world, except in Latin America. Da America is isolated from the rest of
the world. It always was, it was always seen as a disadvantage and
today it becomes an advantage. And I think that' s one of the
main points to be rescued from a geopolitical point of view and then something that
also has to do with this marketing thing. I' m not saying Argentina
is fashionable. For a long time now, we mustn' t underestimate the
fact that Argentina is fashionable. I mean, Argentina is in a do way
because we' ve got Messi, we' ve won a World Cup.
I' ve been since that time, since I' ve been saying we
' re in fashion. We won the World Cup, we have Messi and
we have a Messi that went to the largest market in the world, which
further increases what the Argentine flag is. We have a pope, we have
a queen without a monarchy. There are a lot of issues that I think
help that it is Argentina is fashionable and then we become the first libertarian president
of the world and we become a new experiment for the world, which in
an extremely ridiculous way, if I may have that little appreciation, we are
the beacon of the western world Argentina. I don' t think the most
spousal of gamblers would have said this five years ago or two years ago.
So being fashionable, I think it' s going to be the main indicator,
the main driver, the main force that' s going to help Argentina
get out of the well that it' s in. Why, because everyone
wants to invest in Argentina without knowing what happens everyone wants in fact, I
tell them. Today I was contacted by a news agency in Italy that is
passing news for its investors, wanting to know only the good Argentines and Milay.
I am writing a column called argent Grove, precisely because I think Argentina
is fashionable and, in fact, when I started writing it, there was
a section that was called The treind Argentina, as fashionable and I really think
it is. I really think that can draw and leverage a lot though,
and that' s where I go to what Mauro mentioned, and it'
s a though that for me it' s what modifies all the issues and
what I mentioned and with respect to legal certainty, there' s still a
giant question. There if the government had its first victory with the approval of
the Bases law, it helps a lot to all those expectations that Mauro and
others mentioned, however, where the facts are now. I think the market
and investors are waiting for those facts. They begin to see some investments within
the framework of the Basses law. Today came out a very good, if
everything goes well, investment of eleven zero million dollars of liquefied gas that is
going to be made in Argentina, and I think they will start to get
to those investments and that is where I think that if we get out of
the financial and we are going to go to the real thing, that'
s where this is going to be the big difference to invest in Argentina and
what I mean with the real thing a company, a property, whatever it
is, but that' s tangible, I think it' s going to
multiply its value by several x and at the same time it' s going
to give you a profitability in the middle, because this is what the real
economy has, which can also be very attractive, dis if you want to
at some point, dissociating from the financial part, because we' re not
going to have that associated volatility so typical of Argentina, but we' re
going to sink capital for a longer period of time and just to close Argentina
experiment for the very particular country world. You have to understand what' s
going on right now I think it changes week. We have a saying here
in Argentina that you leave twenty years and I don' t change anything,
you leave for a week and change everything. And explaining this to someone outside
has its challenges is complicated. It' s not a topic, in fact,
as you comment nou here. I' d also like to ask Valentina.
Many of the investments that can be made are not only in the areas
of funds or bonds. Right now in nao he brought up an important topic,
which is the land. In particular, I don' t know foreigners,
we could give a choice where you hear well, Argentina. It seems
that since you saw things, it didn' t become politics as closed as
it used to be. What would happen to be able to invest a small
land in Patagonia, for example, No or in Buenos Aires some commercial corner
that in future will be like CD Mexico, the polanco. I don'
t know it' s even nicer in Buenos Aires than polanco in Mexico.
However, we believe it may be time to compare at a good price and
the future. And I repeat that was the way Carlos lim did great business
but the richest in the world Mexico. So what do you think I'
m not, I' m not a real estate specialist, but yes,
first of all, following Nahuel' s words a little bit, we have
a first. This is the first time that Argentina has a President who is
an economist and libertarian. So is it totally focused on changing the economy that
with the rules we had so far and the restrictions, because in very closed
economy and with many restrictions? Imagine that we have epoetin that restrictions on the
purchase of dollars. For Argentines buying dollars is illegal, so imagine with all
these restrictions, it is giving many changes and many structural changes and is being
its policy, plus its marketing strategy, going outside and meeting and making meetings
with the world' s tycoons, the top people now in the world,
who are more in the focus of people or individuals than politicians themselves. And
there is also a major change in how people are voting. For example,
in Europe we already saw with the elections of the European Parliament and now in
France, then there is everything like a movement that is being generated in Europe.
Also going more to the right, because precisely, as Carina commented,
Europe is so regulated that there is already a time that it is those regulations
or totally suffocating to do business and for the economy. And as for what
I was wondering, from the real estate, totally look We had, besides
that the salary of Argentina, we did not have economic growth for already several
decades, which makes the salary of the Argentines already lower and is very low
with regard to even what is Latin America. The Argentines lost us purchasing power
to buy their home, that is, that the real estate was left with
very low prices for a long time and the fact that, for example,
there were no mortgage loans was only an attempt at mortgage litigation during the Macre
government in the two thousand seventeen, where it exploded and people bought a lot,
lots of real estate. But that was short- term. It was
cut very quickly in a year or two. And now it' s been
several months since the first lines of mortgage credit started coming out so people can
start buying real estate. So the banks are already giving signs that this market
is also going to be a good market, accompanying, for example, the
performance that the financial assets are having since last year, that is, from
two thousand twenty- three. So in the first months of the year the
prices of the properties, especially in federal capital, rose by about five percent,
measured in dollars, and the amount of deeds, that is, of
how many properties were bought and sold was also rising, but it was at
a minimum, that is to say as we said that the country risk was
at two thousand five hundred basis points or twenty- five percent above what a
US bond was yielding. The real estate also accompanied that decline in the market
that we had had for so many years, so that' s already gone.
It has already started to reactivate and as people, that the economy,
if we say so, goes a good way. There are structural reforms,
company policy is also thought that next year, that we are already going to
have legislative elections and that Miley is not supported because he has very little support
in Parliament. It may be that if the population accompanies him, boat more
congressmen from his political party and make him have better support in Congress and that
he can pass laws that are going to be good for decentralizing all the tangle
of anti- business regulation that has gone through Argentina for many years. I
believe it is the hope that is expected for the next few years. It
will be very good for Argentina, at least what has been heard here in
four experts in finance and investment and economics looks good if you, entrepreneur,
are seeing it. I think it' s worth it if in Mauro,
while Valentina was commenting on that, she was looking for the data and the
value of the square meter both new and used. I' ve got the
chart. It had its minimum in July of the two thousand twenty- three,
which is no coincidence, which is a month before the elections in Argentina.
We often make decisions based on possible political changes that bring economic changes and
from August onwards. What the square meter does in terms of dollar values is
to recover, of course, that the price still did not reach maximums,
so there is a potentially tremendous ppside for those who want to buy their first
home with the credits that emerged. Actually, eight months ago, as Valentina
said, they didn' t exist. Argentina, as Donau also said,
twenty years does not change anything and in five it changed everything, and perhaps
the fear that the Argentine has is to be tied to a credit adjusted to
the inflation variable. But perhaps the fact that you are not seeing is that
that possible fear of paying an inflation- adjusted rate is compensated, in my
opinion, with the price so low that today is the square meter in Argentina.
That tray off we need to analyze today is a great opportunity. What
is the square critinémeter price today, on average, in July the two thousand
twenty- three is about two thousand dollars. Yes, average, in what
is federal capital, which is let' s say the maximum reference in terms
of information and today you have it in what is the square meter used and
the square meter premiered in two thousand two hundred and in two thousand four hundred
interesting to sound. Well, if anyone said mentiona forward, I do a
parenthesis and I don' t know later when you want. It' s
coming to an end, but I want to say this so I don'
t make it too long for the podcast. The issue of doing business with
the State is a huge problem that Argentina had for many years. Then there
was no credit, there was credit for the equator, for the fridge,
but there was no credit to buy a house, because the money that was
issued was lent between the state and the banks. It was quite a deal.
Banks were lining up money, but they didn' t really lend it
to people. That' s a conversation I always had with every politician who
came to my company. Sometimes they came to lunch, they came to meet
the company, a giant company and we needed credit and we had to go
look for it outside. We have to go to the United States to lend
us money, because in Argentina there was no way a bank could lend us
money. One time we asked for a bigger project. Luckily, we weren
' t asking for money, but the only time we needed to make a
new plant, we had to go ask the International Monetary Fund. Something like
that outside, because there was no way to get that kind of money so
I could make a new plant, so I could produce more. The idea
was to produce more and use the plant to export. That' s what
any entrepreneur after a point where a market point comes to says well, now
I' m going to do something, I' m going to build something
new to be able to export and so under costs and I' m competitive
abroad. Well, that mentality didn' t exist in Argentina at the corporate
level and it' s going to be very difficult to change it, because
we' re used to the state solving everything on a personal level, in
many cases, and at the corporate level. So, it' s a
new dynamic in the economy that we have to learn from scratch as a baby.
So, today, when we were talking about production and we were talking
about increasing production, of course, how it will increase production if there was
never any credit, we just started to give credit, because, besides,
the entrepreneur is used to getting into it. Why, because he' s
afraid of rising inflation prices. So it' s a whole new learning mechanism.
I don' t overdo it because I' m not getting higher prices.
There' s no inflation going down. Inflation continues to exist. But
I want to say all this new dynamic of developed country mentality to produce it
we have to incorporate, because now the state is not going to help us,
in the sense that it will not help us with an imaginary trap that
allows us to speculate, bring and import things to a dollar value that is
not really the value of the dollar. Well, a lot of issues that
have to do with a total economic disorder. So, in conclusion, I
recommend you read the books of my Lens if you want to know how the
President thinks buy yourselves, even if they are the last two books. I
read them because to see there are some things that I do not agree with
him, for example, abortion issues and those issues do not coincide, but
I agree with his entire economic issue, his economic thinking. So, really
this is the opportunity that we have to really understand a President because he writes
books and then he knows how to understand his thinking as an entrepreneur, as
an individual, he' s going to help us make decisions. When I
sit with Valentina or I sit with Grandpa, I sit with Mauro and I
asked them I read the books. I understand how he thinks, I know
where the newspaper is going, I know how Argentina' s road is going,
but I need you to help me make investment decisions you' re an
SME entrepreneur you' re an individual, why today, if it' s
not inverted, there' s a leg of the table that makes the table
catch you, it' s not like you can' t speculate with anything
else. You have to invest today. Today you have to become an American.
You have to think like an American who grew up in America and when
he' s an entrepreneur, he knows that all he wants is to go
out on the stock market. Entrepreneurs in the United States have a great dream
that their company is listed and working in that direction. They know about investments,
they know where to go to borrow, they know how to set up
a company much more than we do. They' ve been ahead of us
for years. Without a doubt, Argentines live in the state. So it
seems to me that this is one thing that really needs to be incorporated and
well advised in financials, because there comes a stage that is not going to
be easy with that mentality that we have. You have to change by giving
what you said carina that entrepreneurs, as good as companies, needed capital.
Just this is a very good time in Argentina' s capital market, because
it thinks that only about thirty- five companies go out to issue corporate bonds
that in Argentina are called negotiable bonds in the Argentine capital market and there is
a lot of demand on the part of individual investors, that is, from
people who want to invest, for example, their dollars in that type of
option, because they are rather conservative investors and then notice that during this year
there were quite a lot of issues of negotiable bonds in dollars and they are
all out on demand. There has been pro rata because if they assume that
you wanted to invest us in a thousand dollars, they gave you bonus for
thirty percent of what you wanted to invest, that is, that there is
an over- demand for all this type of financing for companies, whether it
is large companies or small companies, because so also the local Stock Exchange has
a share for companies, for financing of end companies. So it' s
very interesting, because also people like that with their dollars they realized that they
have to invest them that if you have the physical dollars and saved, you
lose a three percent that is the annual insulation of the United States, so
that over time you will lose value with these dollars. If it doesn'
t help, say, you have to make an investment with that savings to
generate some profit and you' re going to grow in wealth and your heritage
is also accompanying that growth. That' s how good this guy is.
I think Podcas got pretty good at this discussion talk among many experts on investment,
business and finance. I think it gives us to make others a second
version of before and after. But today I have nothing left but to thank
you for your time. Thank you very much, Valentina. Many thanks also
to Nau, Nahual, Many ras also to Mauro and Carina for their time
is the time we have gone flying like water, but they appreciate that their
time, their fantastic contribution. And just like you people who listen to us,
entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, investors or politicians, and you' re listening to
us. Well listen to this podcast, because we' re going to give
you some ideas with experts like them, so that gradually you can decide what
to do or what to be born. Thank you very much, thank you
all very much for your time. Thank you Tian Vale, thank you Nao.
Thank you very much, too. And so, guys, we'
ll see you in the next edition of stackt of h Tols. We'
ll probably make you a second version of this podcast, which I feel gives
us for more, but well, for today we' re done and see
you next time. Thank you very much, and thank you for joining us
on one more episode of Off and Tolks Te startups. We look forward to
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Starks Inhution Starts withe up of Cathy