What is kracklac and bellow thermonal c or A efforts. I am Dan Valley
coming at you with what will hopefully be a very brief introduction. I'm sharing
a huge snippet of the conversation I had with d n v R Nuggets Serbian
Corners Miroslav Shook. Follow d n VR Nuggets at d n v R Underscore
Nuggets on Twitter. Follow Serbian Corner at Serbian Corner. Both of those are
spelled exactly as it sounds. And then the homie Mural slav Shuk, who
is a you know, he's an og Hardware NOx listener. He's been one
of our biggest supporters. Always loved going on Serbian Corner with him. Follow
him on Twitter at mural slav Shuk. That's at m as A mom I
r O s l A v c u K. We had a discussion about
other than the Denver Nuggets. I won't clude the link to the full episode.
In the podcast and YouTube descriptions, you're getting about thirty minutes of our
conversation here. Him and I went through a playoff bracket at the time before
it was settled. We talked a lot of clippers in MAZ but on this
episode or this part that you're listening to, specifically, we got into Nicole
Jokic MVP, the MVP discourse, and then also just my personal confidence level,
the nuggets to repeat, his Champions questions, concerns, surprise players,
a really fun discussion with him. So I'd encourage you to go follow him,
go check out the entire episode. As far as Hardwood Knocks further programming,
I want to drop this just because I think most of the stuff we
said was still evergreen. It'll start off with their loss to the Spurs that
they blew and to see if that could impact the MVP results. And also
again it's completely evergreen. You can slog through if you don't like hearing something
that's dated. It's like fifteen seconds of preamble right there. As original program
As far as original programming goes Grant now, I'll be coming up with our
playoff previews. The first part will drop on I think Friday, when we'll
have six of the matchup set, and then we'll try and get the others
out for Saturday. I believe we also have I'm hoping to drop that early
next week. We'll be doing one thing we got wrong about every NBA team
this season, to kind of just own it and look back, and to
still cover the teams that aren't being covered outside of the trade stuff that Grant
and I are currently working on, some of which together, which will probably
not appear on this podcast. It's just not the time of year for it.
That about does it, though. So the conversation was great. And
look, if you've gotten this far and you haven't subscribed to us, and
you're listening to this preamble, I mean shout out to you for listening to
some random a hole on YouTube around your podcast just to go through this intro,
but hit the sub button. Tell people about us, help us continue
to grow the community. Join our discord where we have fun competitions with a
bunch of fun discussions in there. Help Grant and I not have to be
as active this time of year when we are pretty fucking frazzled at the moment.
But again, discord links to the podcast, YouTube descriptionsribe comment on all
the things, comment on everything, health, the algorithm of us back.
Shout out to every single one of you. We appreciate you as always.
Well, let's get to some really good Denver nuggets. And MVP at Large.
We get into Luca even Shake Gilibs, Alexander Giannis, a lot,
Jalen Brunson I think as well. Really fun discussion. Again, it's running
about thirty minutes and you'll have another two episodes this week, so a nice
little four episode hard Hardware Knocks week and yeah, let's get to it.
It is time to bring in my guests for today. It is the end
of the regular season, so it is a great time to get some outside
takes about the Nuggets and the league at large before the play in and playoffs.
You know him from his great pieces from the for the Bleacher Report,
and also for his relentless work on the Hardwood Knocks podcasts, where he gives
extremely measured and informed takes on all the teams in the association except for your
team because he hates your team. Calling from New York, New York,
It's Daniel Dan Favali, Welcome back to the show. Then, thank you
so much for having me, Miroslova, and as always for the spectacular introduction.
Listen. I know I'm a jack of many trades, but I'm trying
to hone that one perfectly, because you know, if I get the introduction.
Well, then people tend to come back. So everyone likes their ego
strokes, especially me, so I appreciate the introductions. Yeah, you mentioned
your MVP pick, Nikola Joki is being one. It's an interesting question that
was in my head last night after the Nuggets wet their bad against the Spurs,
because all of a sudden they can drop all the way to the third
seed, while you know, look don't itch and Dallas MAVs are a fift
seed. Now, I do realize there's like a seven or eight game gap
between those two seeds, but still it's not as big of a gap as
it was before. Did you have any doubt that this kind of outcome could
swing some voters when when the push comes to shove, I know, just
be I mean, so the ESPN straw poll that Tim Bontemps does is just
always so telltale. It feels like for the MVP war, and he was
so far out in front that I have a tough time believing that that drop
would really impact him. I guess with Luca and the MAVs coming on,
if you look at the seating and the MAVs are four and the Nuggets are
three, and okase he is one. I would say, I think you
can make a case of those three. And I was in this camp with
Giannis for a little bit pre injury. Hopefully he's going to be fine with
that cash strain, but I think any of those three could realistically win.
My whole thing is I don't like the arguments, and we've seen a lot
of it in our YouTube comments. I seen in the BR section all the
time that just says, well, what does Luca have to do? He
doesn't have another All Star on the team. Or it's the same thing with
SG and it's like, well Jokic doesn't have another All Star on the team,
And then they'll come back and say, well, Jamal Murray's all star
caliber and then it's well, what is Kyrie Irving? What is Jalen Williams?
And chet Holgren. So I don't like that type of argument. And
what I hate about the MVP discourse, and I'm sure I am guilty of
this, is everything turns into a referendum on what the other guys don't do,
rather than let's appreciate what they're all doing. But who stands out the
most? And when it's this close, and I do think it's close because
Shake Gildges Alexander honestly might be the best two way player in the NBA.
Luka Dancic is probably rivaling Jokic right now for the most valuable offensive player in
the NBA, even though I wouldn't say that. I look at Nikola Jokic,
and the things that swing it for me is that, yes, we
all know about the on off splitz. I think those matter more now because
we've established that the Nuggets are not just a contender but a champion. So
he's not just what makes them from bad to really good. He's their lifeline
to title contention. And neither Shy nor Luca can actually say the same thing
just yet because those teams, I guess the MAVs recently made a Western Conference
finals, Like we now have that evidence that this is what Yokic is doing,
because this is what the Nuggets are. On top of that, though,
the actual things that swing it for me, Yo Kicch is better on
defense than Luca, And so if you think their offense is close and it's
close, I still think Yo Kicic is more valuable. Yo Kicch is the
better. He does more work on defense. He just he does and then
with Shay specifically, jo Kich is more important to or has a larger impact
to me on his offense on what the Nuggets do, Like Shae is the
more aggressive score but Jokic has a very versatile scoring package and is by far
the better passer. But that's my preference. So you want to make a
case because Yo kicchs won it twice and like the thunder head a schedule and
look at the impact that Shay is having, or just look what Luka is
doing where Okay, Kyrie is an All Star, but he's not really playing
in a ton of games are enough to be an All Star. It's that
is I think the hardest part. It's there. It feels like there are
very thin margins here, but if you pick someone, it's always interpreted as
you know, I won't get this on this show because it's a nugget show.
But well, why would you disrespect Luca like that? And it's having
Luca second or third of my MVP out is not a sign of disrespect and
if anything, we should just appreciate that. It is this much of the
of a debate when all of these guys are so darn good to where it's
you know, and if Joelle Be never got hurt, would we mean like
an even wilder debate. So I try and appreciate it from that perspective,
but I think invariably I even end up doing the thing where it's well,
these guys don't do this, and Yokic does, and this is why I'm
picking Yoki. Yeah, as you said it, well, even if a
guy gets like eighty five place quotes, that doesn't mean that there's a huge
gap between him and the other kind of dat. So it's I agree,
we have really three, really great kind of dates. Deseason, I would
say actually four because I think Jannis he's having an underrated season because the season
of the Bucks is pretty night marriash, and he has his own piece of
debt, to be completely honest, but his numbers are actually pretty great and
they're historical, and I think the thing with him is that we are seeing
the limitations to what can happen when he's neither your primary rim protector or wing
defender on how that can float an entire defense, because he's just best suited
in a role where and they have tried him in more different capacities this year.
But because he's not a primary something. His impact can be I don't
honest say somewhat muted, but it's not going to lift up and it had
by the way it lifted up the Bucks defense in a certain lineups. I'm
not arguing that, but it's the way that Rudy Gobert can lift up the
Timberwolves defense. And he has a ton of good defenders around. But look
dating back to his time with Utah, or look at what Anthony Davis is
doing with the Lakers, who are finally better defensively statistically with him on the
floor. Hashtag that's what happens when maybe you play a little bit less with
cam Reddishenttorian Prince. But we're seeing because and it might be the way Giannis
has used and less about what he can't do. But I do think that's
kind of what ended up separate. Like the offense is just I think you
can make the case even though there's been awkwardness between him and Dame and that
dynamic, Giannis has never been better or more deferential as a passer. So
like he's even continued to grow in his offensive game. He's cut out a
lot of the you know, he has some counters from the perimeter, but
he's kind of cut out those shots where you're not seeing as many pull up
threes or those those junkie pull up twos. So I think he had a
very strong case, like it was a four player race to me. But
I think the way that Luca ascended what the Jokic and the Nuggets did after
he sent that text message over the All Star break, that really kind of
sealed the deal. But again, I would listen if someone to make a
case for Giannis. That's the other thing is I try to keep an open
mind. I might not agree with it. If you want to make a
case for Rihanna's over all these guys, I'll absolutely listen. And because we're
talking about these four specifically and maybe even Jalen Brunson, I might not have
like a concrete argument against you, I can explain where I'm coming from.
And that's what should be fun about the MVP debate is the is the fact
that it is open for interpretation is good, but it also fuels the toxicity.
Where is it best player on the best team. What does value actually
mean to certain people? Is it will imagine pulling this guy off the roster,
how bad would they be, and so it has to go to that
guy. I mean, that's why that's been lucas another one of Luca's primary
arguments. It's like, have you seen like the Nuggets is on afsplits with
Jokic for like the past eighty years. So it's it's a mess, but
it's also really fun when you're having it with people. You know, when
Grant and I get to do it, I enjoy that discussion. And then
it's just we don't look at the comments or like the reaction as much to
it unless it's positive, because someone's always going to be upset. Now.
Funny, funny counter to that interpretation of who should be the envy is the
way we select the MVP in the ABA League did the original league where Nicolaiakeet
used to play back in the day. We just take the numbers production numbers
of the players. We don't even take taking the number of wins into the
account, and we say this guy had the most you know, like the
highest PR of all the guys in the league. So this is why he
is the m v P. You know what, We're never wrong and nobody
is talking about it. And the thing the NBA wants for everybody to talk
about it because you know it makes the machine machine machines wheel spin. Okay,
then, so before we get to the meet on the bone of today's
show, I wanted to pick your reign about the Nuggets for a couple of
minutes. First of all, for those who don't remember, you predicted a
Nuggets championship last year and you were one hundred percent about that. It's it's
kind of it wasn't as satisfying as I thought it would be. I remember,
because I didn't really I took like a mini victory lap on Twitter,
just recalling. But people don't remember when you're not the first one, right.
But let's say when you're earlier. You were one of the few people
that picked the Nuggets, because I don't know who else nationally picked the Nuggets.
No, remember when you're wrong. If the Nuggets don't win the title
this year, I'm sure I'll get a bunch of pushback to that one.
So this year, you predict predicted their repeat, right? Uh? Yeah?
They were my title pick at the beginning of the season. I think
I had them over Milwaukee in the finals, and I do not trust Milwaukee
to get to the Finals, But if that ends up being the matchup,
I'll feel exceedingly confident in my Nuggets pick overall. Yes, so this time
around, I don't think you were the sole guy to predict the Nuggets championship.
I mean, you know, when they get one, suddenly people realize
it is possible. And even those people who think that the Celtics are overwhelming
favorites will tell you that it will be extremely difficult to win against the team
with a lot of continuity, even though they've lost Bruis Brownan for some reason,
they also mentioned Jeff Green every time. How would you compare your confidence
in the Nuggets at the beginning of the season to now, I probably feel
even more confident, to be honest with you, And I know that maybe
that feels weird coming off of that Spurs game, but that's one of eighty
two they didn't go through. And that was part of my concern last year,
and I promised myself if they went through another slump this year so late
in the season, I wouldn't be concerned. But they didn't really like They've
had their nights where it just feels like they're off, but their top three
in offense, top five in defense since the All Star Break, and so
I'm more confident in that. And the weird thing is, well, this
could be painted as a weakness. I feel a lot more confident in their
bench than I thought I would. You know, I was low on the
Reggie Jackson stuff the beginning of the year. I'm slightly higher on those right.
And you know, even like where Christian Brown, where it feels like,
yes, he's been better lately and for a while, but his offensive
start was very uneven. Peyton Watson shooting like seventeen percent from three since the
All Star Break or whatever it is, so you have questions and even just
like the Peyton Watson, like from game to game, it feels like his
impact can swing towards any end of the spectrum almost unpredictably, and so like
you do have your there's like a level of uncomfortability there. But they I
feel like they've really discovered themselves in those Aaron Gordon as the backup big units,
and I even think that some of their lineups where it's well, we're
gonna surround those units with as many starters as possible, and like we're just
gonna lean on Jokic to prop up some of the bench heavier mobs, maybe
even bench heavier than they have been in the past. This just feels like
a team that understands itself better than it ever has. And to just know
that, like on the court, Michael Porter Junior, you understand what he
is now at both ends of the floor, and that this is someone who,
yeah, even if he kind of goes through his upward and downward swings
when you look at his his shot making, the fact that he has conceded
so much of what could be a more prominent role has really worked out well
for this team. And it is so dangerous because it's, as Grant said
on one of our recent podcasts, where it's just like the Nuggets are dangerous
in a vacuum. But then you realize that there's this level to Michael Porter
Junior where it's not just him hitting threes, it's by virtue of him being
on the floor. They can become this entirely different animal during the games that
he's on. And so I think in net in some a more confident probably
measurably so in the Nuggets than I was at the beginning of the season,
and I was pretty confident. And the final thing to do with that too,
is someone else kind of needs to prove it to me in the West,
and I do. I think Minnesota and OKC are certainly legit. I
do worry about OKAC size, and there's some people I don't care too much
about it, but there is the experience factor. And also just Mark Daignelt
has never had to shrink his rotation like that's just been a dude that plays
sixteen out of fifteen guys, fourteen out of thirteen guys every single night basically,
So I'm curious to see how they deal with that adjustment. And then
with Minnesota, there's just still questions about their offense. It's great for them
that they're gonna have Karl Anthony Towns back, what is he gonna look like
long term coming back for that meniscus injury, and can their offense sustain a
high enough, consistent enough peak in the playoffs. And then just like I
thought, the Clippers might have been not sneaky, but they were on a
tear for basically half the year. But their transition defense has been poor all
season and it seems to have infected the rest of their defense at this point
too. And then of course there I'm sure they're doing. I'm pretty sure
based off what I know they're doing. This is precaution. But sitting KWHI
because of the knee stuff, that's something that we're gonna have to monitor.
People want to make the Lakers or the Warriors happen, and maybe they have
some interesting peaks, but we have this evidence, and including with Phoenix of
eighty games eighty one games. Now, these teams are telling you what they
are. And I think it's been pretty clear. In the West, as
brutal as it is, the Nuggets are still just and shoulders above everybody else,
even if you think there's a couple problematic matchups potentially on the docket.
So I think we agree that that Western conferdence is a lot better than its
Eastern counterpart this season, and not only this season, and that probably,
you know, part because Boston's huge tally of wins compared to everybody else.
Would you say that West is actually stronger this season compared to the last one,
or is it just some teams rising while some other completely disappearing from contention?
The Nuggets were sixteen and four in the playoffs last year, or twelve
and three in the West how realistic is it for them to get out of
the West with only three losses this season? Oh, I would say it's
I'd be shocked if they did it and very impressed, just because you can
boil it down to this, the Clippers are healthier, the Pelicans are healthier,
the timber Wolves are healthier. Oklahoma City has just reached another gear.
And so even if you think okay, the Lakers and the Warriors have kind
of faded and the Thunder underachieving one of those three teams can probably still make
some noise, assuming the Warriors and Lakers even get or the Suns for that
matter, who are still in play in contention, actually get to the postseason.
But I think, just by virtue of looking at what this version of
the Clippers could be and what this version of the Timberwolves, the Pelicans,
and the Thunder already are, that this playoff bracket should, in theory be
much more difficult for Denver to navigate than last year's. One small question about
the Nuggets roster this season? Who was your biggest positive and biggest negative surprise
on Nuggets roster this season? I know the positive one because I listened to
all of your shows but you can repeat it anyway. You know my positive
surprises because I was thinking about this question when you said it to me,
and it's like, I don't know that anyone's like super duper shocked or disappointed
me on this roster. I know that they've been trying to make Zeke Nagy
happen for what feel like a decade, but I never expected that to be
this huge thing. If I'll start the disappointment, I really thought if you
would have asked me at the beginning of the year, I thought we might
have seen more from Julian Strather this season, just because of the movement shooting
that that he can provide. I thought he might have played a more integriate
role and certainly would have thought that he hit his three pointers at a higher
clip. I'm still pretty high on him moving forward, but that surprised me
a little bit. And then with the Nuggets, in terms of who's been
like the most pleasantly surprising player, I think it's I mean, I guess
most people would say Peyton Watson, but I still kind of think it's Michael
Porter Junior. Just there's more, there's still more of the level of consistency.
Even if it can be somewhat erratic sometimes to his defense, to his
rebounding, and I think that he is more comfortable in the skin that the
Nuggets have him wearing on offense, where's there's not as much freelancing or attempting
to deviate from the script, And him and Michael Malone definitely seem like they're
on the same page after we felt like a couple of years of just awkward
and I don't know how much injuries to bout him and the rest of the
roster had to do with that. So I think those would be my picks.
But this is again a team and that's not even like patting myself on
the back. It's really just like we kind of understood what they were,
what they could be, and there were times during the stretch of the season
where I thought Christian Brown was going to be maybe my biggest disappointment on the
roster, but they've kind of just progressed to this dominant normal and so I
had a tough time not just identifying a disappointment but even a surprise because of
how good we already knew that they were. Yeah, I agree with your
pick of Julian Strutter. I will try to defend his case because you know,
he missed the big chunk of the season with the injury. And also
I think Michael Malone would get an ulcer if he was the third of the
rookie playing this season, you know, next to I mean, I know
Christian Brown is a second year player and pet Watson is formally a second year
player as well, but he is really a rookie this season, so if
he to deal with chaos of three super young guys on the team, I
don't think. I don't think we would have Michael Malone alive for the for
the for the playoffs, So it's probably for the best, and I think
Julian still has a really good chance of getting into a better role next season.
Of course I agree also on Michael Porter, I know he is your
most improved player on the Nuggets in your big podcast about most improved players from
each team, So yeah, I'm really happy about Michael. For the end
of this segment, we have one listener submitted question, and if you want
your question answered on the show, you have to become a Patreon supporter on
patreon dot com slash miroslav c Uk. This question is from Peter Martin Plumber.
He asked, then, how the heck are you doing? Oh?
Sorry, that's for a different show, Peter. Question is what is your
one biggest concern about the Nuggets in the upcoming playoffs? So I think it
might be the rebounding in the non Jokic minutes, because we've seen you could
say the non Yokic minutes in general, but that just feels like low hanging
fruit. And those minutes will the non Jokic minutes will presumably shrink to like
what like eight a game, ten a game at most in the playoffs.
But it's just they're so small in that, like when you have Aaron Gordner's
your five, and the defensive rebounding rate during those minutes is really low,
and just overall without Jokic, I think their defensive rebounding rate drops by almost
eight points. And so if you're gonna go up against teams like Minnesota or
even New Orleans, if that's a matchup they see against just you know,
in those six, eight, ten minutes that Yokich isn't on the court,
I would be curious to see, Okay, like what kind of happens there
when you already know that probably your offense isn't already gonna be as good,
and so one of the things you can control, aside from playing good defense,
is ensuring that you're ending the possessions of your opponents when you're on the
defensive end, and so that would just be something to monitor, I think
again, especially depending on how the matchups pan out. And I will say
this is obviously a later round thing. I know a lot of people don't
think that Okay See has the size or strength to hang with the Nuggets.
They've done a much better job of rebounding out of the All Star break,
and I think a lot of it has to do with you know, I
think it was uh I can't. I think it was grace of What's in
the NBA Game podcast, which they just launched. I listened to their first
episode was really good, so people should check it out. But she had
mentioned that she thinks has a lot to do with Okay like they're playing Ken
Rich or they're playing big Jalen Williams with the chet holmgrin. I also think
the Wings and the Guards have done a better job boxing out, and so
if that's happening during minutes when Yo kich is off the floor, that's maybe
another team that could give them problems. But I just we're splitting hairs here
when it's what's the biggest con. I mean, you point to everything's a
cliche. It's well, do you trust Reggie Jackson to kind of be the
backup point guard? And the the answer is yes, because he's gonna play
lavish Min's with Jokicht Anyway, I think the other thing you could point to
is will there be any sort of wild, incoherent swings from the youngsters that
you are depending on looking at Christian Brown's offense, Peyton Watson shooting, or
just his continuity on the defensive end. So you could point to that,
But I think just the the rebounding during the non Jokic minutes would be something
that I'd be because like you could play Zeke, that's he's not gonna help
you rebounding either. So and I mean DeAndre Jordan, how many playoff minutes
do you want to see from DeAndre Jordan? Yeah? Well not many,
not many, And I always keep around with with Jeff Green's minutes from last
season's playoffs. But the reality is he is a big body and you need
a beefy guy here. And there in your rotation. And Ruth is if
they can pull off playing all of Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter, and Peyton
Watson as your front court when Nikola Yoki is not on the court, then
that might work rebounding wise. But if you try to play Peyton Watson exclusively
at the four, that might be too thin in certain matchups. So I
agree with you that rebounding might might be might be an issue in Nonia FI
two minutes for sure. Okay, let's take I hope Peter is happy with
your answer.