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Welcome back to the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Joy Pullman, the executive editor

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here at The Federalist. I'm joining
the show today to speak with a special

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guest, Carrie Gress. She is
a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy

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Center in Washington, DC and the
author of the brand new book The End

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of Woman, How Smashing the Patriarchy
has Destroyed Us. She's also the editor

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of the Fabulous Theology of Home website
and the mother of five children. Carrie,

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Welcome, Thanks so much for having
me. Carrie, Why don't you

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start by summarizing the argument of the
End of Woman and then telling us what

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drove you to write it. So
the new book really starts with the beginning

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of feminism and starts pulling out some
very distinct patterns that we see start there

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and finish to where we're at today, which is, you know, we're

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at the point where we're actually trying
to change women into men biologically, and

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so, you know, I just
really it started with a question how why

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can't we define a woman? And
why are we trying to make women into

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men? And that's sort of you
know, I went back to the first

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wave of feminism. I had written
about the second wave, but I went

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back to the first wave really not
not sure what I was going to find,

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and ended up finding just a whole
trove of pieces that really put together

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this whole movement so that we can
see it. It really is in an

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ideology of a piece. You know. I think a lot of people have

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talked about feminism being hijacked at some
point or taking a very left turn in

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the sixties. That what I discovered
was that that's really not the case.

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That all of those elements were there. So it looks at how feminism from

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the very beginning has been asking the
question, you know, how do we

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help women, but not as women, it's asking the question, how do

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we help women become like men?
And so I think that that, you

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know, the whole book sort of
steps through that and helps us figure out,

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like, this is why we were
having these struggles because we haven't really

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been encouraging womanhood. We've been encouraging
women to become like men. And I

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that actually when you pin oh,
the second part was what drove you to

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write the book? Oh? Okay? So I ended up writing it partially

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because I have had written a book
before called the Anti Mary Exposed which was

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a Catholic book and really talked about
this issue. And I went back to

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just the beginning of second wave feminism, and I had a lot of people

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asking me, you know what about
first wave and you know, can you

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write something that is on this topic. But that's also for people that are

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Protestant or secular, you know,
can be given to anyone. So it's

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kind of those pieces together. But
it really didn't come together until I started

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digging into the research, because I
was expecting to find some very like lovely

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work on women. But you know, what I found was not at all

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what I expected to find, and
found just you know, remarkable connections to

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the occult and a lot of really
dark content that you know, I thought

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had only sprung up in the sixties, and it goes way goes back much

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further than that. So you actually
yourself didn't expect So, if I'm hearing

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you correctly, you did not expect
to kind of find that the trail of

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feminism going back to its inception,
kind of had the seeds of what we're

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seeing today in the division and the
kind of attack on the biological womanhood of

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woman. Would that be an accurate
characterization, Yeah, no, I think

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that's absolutely right. I had no
idea that these elements certainly free love,

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this idea of smashing the patriarchy,
and the occult that that any of these

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things happened back then. I think
we have very polished versions of the early

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suffragettes, someone like Elizabeth Katie Santon
and certainly Susan B. Anthony, and

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think of them in kind of Victorian
terms. And you know, even Mary

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wellstone Craft, to you was writing
back in the seventeen eighty seventeen nineties,

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around the time of the French Revolution, She's can be very sterilized sometimes,

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and so yeah, I think it's
just was amazing. I was shocked,

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you know, Halftime, just sort
of picking my job from the ground as

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I'm reading this content, having no
idea. I felt the same my reading.

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Yeah, yeah, it has that
sense to it. And of course

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the moving on later to Betty for
Dan and the whole communist all the communist

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connections, that was really eye opening
and surprising and not at all expected.

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So yeah, it was a pretty
remarkable book to research, especially because I

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didn't use people that were critics of
feminism. I used people that either primary

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sources or people that were really proponents
proponents of what was happening. I think

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you're absolutely right that a lot of
women today see the transgender issue correctly as

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an attack on female biology and existence. Really, but I do think that

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a large number of people also think
that the original feminism really meant something like

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basic rights, treating women like humans, just really baseline stuff. So I

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mean, obviously, for example,
nobody has ever supported rape or beating women,

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you know, systematically, But the
argument is that women have historically been

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systematically oppressed in these brutal kinds of
ways, and they really needed feminism to

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pull them out of that. So, based on your historical research, what

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did you find that speaks to that
common belief? Yeah, well, I

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mean there's so much. I mean, the whole book really goes into that.

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But I think that, you know, the one thing we have to

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keep in mind is just how effective
communism has been in this and how much

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we have been taught to think like
Marxists. And you know, even up

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to two weeks ago, I had
someone suggests that I should feel guilty about

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doing this research because you know,
I have an advanced degree and I work

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and you know all of this that
and I think that's the argument, is

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that we can't have these things unless
we had feminism. And yet a lot

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of these things are just very common
sensical of them were coming about in different

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degrees over over time anyway, So
it wasn't really feminism that brought them to

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us. Furthermore, we didn't have
to destroy the whole culture to get at

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this point, because of course,
a lot of what's happened with feminism really

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underscores the woke movement and whatnot.
But you know, the first thing to

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know is just even the word patriarchy
comes from angles. You know, he

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was writing with Marx, and Marx
died, and so he after Marx's death,

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was trying to clean up things,
especially on the women's issue, and

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that was what one of the words
that he came up with. He was

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referring to it more in terms of, you know, the landed farmer or

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landowner oppressing poor workers. But that
got translated very easily. And this is

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what feminism has done, is it's
translated Marxism from the class warfare into the

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warfare between the sexes. And so
men are through this prism are automatically the

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oppressors, and women are automatically the
oppressed, we become the victims, and

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it's just all of this continues to
play itself out, and so yeah,

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it's just really been remarkable to see
how much this has been perpetrated in the

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culture and how much we really believe
this idea that you know, feminism is

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ultimately trying to protect us, when
in fact it's you know what it's done,

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it's not. It hasn't made us
happier. It's actually, you know,

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if you look at the metrics of
things like depression and suicide numbers,

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even things like divorce and STDs,
you can really see that women are not

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getting happier from it, that it's
actually creating a lot of misery and heartache

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because we've made things that come natural
to the come naturally to the woman's soul,

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things like raising children and loving their
husbands, we've made those things into

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the what women are told are obstacles
to their happiness. So yeah, it's

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it's it's remarkable to me how effective
the marketing has been and how little pushback

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the Fountast movement has has received the
years, And you know, some of

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that is because they've been able to
silence it, but they've also done an

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amazing job of sort of telling people
that are that don't explaining people that don't

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agree with feminism, making them look
like either you know, Handmaid's Tale women,

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or you know, that they're idiots, or that you know they're they're

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you know, too submissive to a
man and can't think for themselves. I

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mean, they have both painted themselves
as the right women, and then the

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women that would disagree with them,
they've done an amazing job of painting them

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and their own strokes. So yeah, it's it's been very very effective.

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You're making me think about I just
recently, you know, wrote about kind

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of some of the recent attacks on
Jenny Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court

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Justice Clarence Thomas. You know,
so there have been a number of profiles

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of her, and it was and
it was interesting to me to read it

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and as a conservative woman who is
you know, yeah, who believes that

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God made women, he loves them, that the way they are right,

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and that there's something absolutely beautiful about
that, and and and to read that,

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you could you could understand see that
these feminist leftist writers couldn't figure out

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how to square the fact that Jenny
is also you know, conservative group in

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a super conservative home where her mother
was a conservative political activists and her mother

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actually ran i believe, for states, you know, state leadership, state

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representative position, and you know,
it was, it was they were so

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confused about how people describing themselves,
women describing themselves as super conservative and making

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sure to write misses on you know, their things, to identify themselves as

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married women and respectful of their husband. And you know what, also,

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they couldn't figure out the juxtaposition of
that conservative female orientation with also running for

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Congress being a really you know,
kick ass wife of a Supreme Court justice

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who was very effective politically. I've
seen the same thing, for example,

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even years back about Phillis Schlafley.
You know, you know, she was

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treated the same way, right,
you know, she's this mother many children,

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she's running and effectively out of her
home office in national political organizing,

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grassroots campaign for years and years.
Then people just couldn't figure out, you

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know, how a woman, you
know, who believed in being a woman

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and that the men and women are
different, and that men are good,

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you know, and that they have
strengths that we you know, that women

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should respect and vice versa. You
know, a woman who believes all of

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that. You know, how she
you know, but shouldn't she be under

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her husband's thumb and like his doormat
and whatever? How do those two fit

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together? Right? No, they're
wordable. When they actually do pay attention

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to women like that, they can't
figure it out because it doesn't fit anywhere

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within the framework that they've established for
you know, fifty years now. Yeah,

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I mean, I've just been I
mean, it's been something to me.

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It just it's been a slow dawning, you know, to think,

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Oh, I'm a conservative woman who've
been about around conservative men all my life,

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and all the most like patriarchal leadership
kinds of men that I've ever known

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have been the most respectful of women
and wanting to promote me and you know

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and treat me like an equal as
compared to you know, other interactions that

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I've had. So that's been kind
of a shocking personal experience juxtaposed against the

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narrative. I think there's a huge
psychological component, a lot of it probably

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unconscious, to the way that women
think through feminism and apply it to their

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life. So even if you don't
support far left feminism such as abortion until

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birth, you know, the feminism
still is a factor in the way women

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think and live their everyday lives.
So can you help provide clarity by defining

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what you mean by feminism and in
fact what historically you know and has it

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meant, because some people just define
it as not abusing women or basic human

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respect, you know, which I
think accounts for a lot of its support.

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Is that how the women who created
it and defined it themselves and propelled

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it into public life. Is that
how they defined it or what did your

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research find? Yeah? No,
I think that's a great question. And

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one of the things that has been
so challenging is is the fact that it

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isn't often defined. I think we, just, like you said, think

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of it as human respect or even
just being pro woman. That that's the

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only way in which you can sort
of use It's the only language that you

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can actually use to really declare yourself
to be pro woman. But from what

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I found, the three markers of
it I think that go back to almost

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the very beginning are like I mentioned
before, there's free love and that means

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non marital sex, no commitment sex, right, yeah, exactly, And

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the end of the nuclear family,
seeing marriage as an kind of enslavement.

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So that was a very popular piece
from the very beginning and was popularized actually

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even by Mary Wallstonecraft's husband. He
was one of the best known free love

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advocates. He was an anarchist.
He you know, was known very well

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at that period for that being his
position. So it was sort of a

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scandal when he and Mary Wellstonecraft actually
got married because she was pregnant and a

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lot of that happened because she had
already had a child out of pregnancy or

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out of wedlock rather, and she
saw what happened to her first child because

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she wasn't married, and so she
wanted the second child to have the advantage

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of coming from a married family.
And you can see this also. You

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know Percy Shelley, who was Mary
Wallstone's craft Walstonecraft's son in law. He's

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a piece of work, that guy. Oh man, he's my marathony.

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So he's also highly instrumental in this
because he's trying to carry on the work

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of both Mary Wallstonecraft and her husband
William Godwin and create this you know,

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women's revolution. So we see he's
actually really I think, you know,

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if you're gonna talk about where feminism
as a unique unit comes from. I

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think he's a much better starting place
than than Wallstonecraft is because he includes the

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free love piece. He also includes
the occult element. He's highly into the

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occult, highly into rewriting the Bible
and making Eve a hero instead of a

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temptress or you know, being her
fault that that man fell. You know,

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he's just such All of his work
was really saturated with this element.

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And then the third part is really
just this restructuring of society, which ultimately

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did become this idea of smashing the
patriarchy that started with the Marxist and the

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Communists later on, but that piece
was around the very beginning. Wallstonecraft was

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very much an advocate for getting rid
of the church and getting rid of the

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hierarchy in the military and in the
church. Those are the two things that

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she was very much a proponent of. So we can see that those things

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sort of in different waves cycling through
the movement, you know, really even

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up to our own day. And
so I think that that those three pieces

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are kind of the essential core of
feminism. Now there's going to be all

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kinds of people that have different definitions
of that, and I think that's really

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where it's incumbent upon other people that
they define. You know, Okay,

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we accept this part, but not
this part because those things are largely unsavory,

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especially to conservative women. So we
need to be really explicit about Okay,

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this is the part that I'm maintaining, or this is what I mean

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by feminism, because that's really where
why it's been so effective is because it's

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so slippery. People just sort of
apply to it whatever they think it means

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instead of what it actually means.
So those are the three three elements,

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and then of course just that overarching
piece of really having idealized the masculine.

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And this is what that weird schizophrenic
you know dynamic happens between men and women

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because you know that we know that
this the idea of getting rid of gender

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altogether was there from actually from Percy
Shellet. He actually predicted that we would

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try and get rid of it.
He thought it was a construct and awful,

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but that really came alive in the
sixties and seventies of course, So

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that dynamic where you know, women
want to be like men and they want

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men to be more like women,
but at the same time they hate men.

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So it's just this weird, you
know, schizophrenic relationship that isn't he

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You know, it just keeps me
aggravated over and over again by by feminism

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just because of these underpinning ideas.
So yeah, I think that all of

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that can really help us sort of
unpack. Okay, well, what do

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I if I'm going to use call
myself a feminist? What do I really

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mean by it? And this is
what I mean by that may be either

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similar or differentiated, but at least
we have a base mark to start with

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instead of just using it in sort
of this maternal grandmotherly you know, concept

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that somehow has been looking out for
women for two hundred years. The watched

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00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,679
Aldo on Wall Street podcast with Chris
Markowski every day, Chris helps unpack the

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00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,440
connection between politics and the economy and
how it affects your wallet. With crime

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00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,399
and drug addiction continuing to skyrocket,
the US as the highest rate of singral

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00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,279
parent households in the world, lbj's
Great Society resulted in a reliance on social

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welfare programs and destruction in the family
unit. Is there a direct correlation whether

234
00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:56,879
it's happening in DC or down on
Wall Street, it's affecting you financially be

235
00:16:56,919 --> 00:17:00,120
informed. Check out the watched aoldown
Wall Street podcast asked with christ Markowski on

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00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:07,440
Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcast. I also don't think

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it's like really fair to say,
oh, I think feminism means just like

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treating women like humans, because that's
basically say, okay, I mean nobody

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disagrees with that, So then you're
kind of, you know, it's like

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saying I don't know I believe that. You know, it's just like saying,

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oh, my political platform is like
peace, love and apple pie.

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Okay, yeah, you know,
that's it's just kind of you're not even

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talking about the issues that people are
talking about at that point. You know,

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there's yeah, there's basically nobody except
you know, fewer than one percent

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of you know, actual scum kind
of people who would disagree with that kind

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of statement, you know, so
it's not really it's not really germane to

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the actual topic. I think it's
just a cope. Yeah. No,

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I think I think that's right,
and I think that it's you know,

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if you look at the movement itself, it's it's really interesting to just see

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how effective they have been with these
sound bites. I mean not just kind

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of another one that has pulled out
and glibly thrown out that sort of sounds

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like that like a trump card of
sorts. You know, the uh,

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you know, treating women these humans, and you know there's all kinds of

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from Madeline Albrights. You know,
there's a place in hell for women that

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don't vote for other women, and
you know, on and on they just

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they seem to be everywhere. There's
you know, just it's like a movement

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that was made for slogans. I
mean they're all over the Women's March and

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things like that. So I think
that's another red flag that women really need

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to pay attention to, is if
you hear a slogan like that, maybe

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you should, you know, get
behind it a little bit more instead of

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just absorbing it and smashing. The
patriarchy is absolutely one of those that you

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know, it's been spouted out in
so many different ways, and of course

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Barbie the Barbie Movie just highlighted that
all the more. And yet there's so

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much baggage and real content behind what
they mean by that that is actually really

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unsavory and incredibly unhealthy. It was
very interesting to me to read in detail

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what you put in your book,
just the personal lives of all those key

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early feminists, and there seems to
be a real overlap between women who have

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been treated very badly and feminist support. It's it's funny how, you know,

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in their deep woundedness they cling to
something that victimizes them even further.

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I'm thinking about Wollstonecraft, for example, he treated Mary Shelley like garbage.

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Women get stuck with all the baggage
that comes from the intimate accounters of free

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love, the emotional as well as
a physical like babies. You know,

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that's that's something you might have to
commit yourself to for life. Motherhood.

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It's it's an as essential choice.
Giving birth to a baby can kill you,

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you know. And you point out
in the book that there is not

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just a huge overlap between women alienated
from motherhood and men and leading feminists.

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You essentially cannot find a key feminist
who has not been alienated from men and

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motherhood and often very horrifying abuse and
waves. And it seems almost like psychologically,

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some of these women are doubling down
on the very things that have hurt

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them, because if they repudiate their
ideology based on its obviously terrible consequences.

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Then they have to explore their own
responsibility for that. Yeah, And I

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think Wollstonecraft is interesting because she was
obviously so wrapped up in what was happening

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politically. She was very engaged in
the work of Thomas Payne. You know.

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Godwin of course, was sort of
this celebrity. She spent time in

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Paris during the French Revolution, and
you know, would have died if she

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had not had this relationship with this
American that she got pregnant with with her

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first child. He told the American
embassy that they were married. They never

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married, but at least she had
the protection as an American from the guillotine.

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So I think that there's all of
these political ideas that are swirling about

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her, and this this idea of
getting rid of taboos. I mean,

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the Marquis dessaud Is writing at that
time, all of that was really in

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the air, and you know,
getting rid of the church and all of

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that. So it's interesting to see
how much her early childhood and this,

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you know, this horrible relationship that
her parents had where her father was highly

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abusive and her mother was super submissive. In this bizarre how that lent itself

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to where you know, her sort
of seeing that this whole we need to

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redo the whole thing kind of thing. But that was really that the attitude

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of the whole French Revolution was we
need to just make it all new again

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and redo the whole thing. So
she's interesting in that perspective. But yeah,

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as you go along, I mean
this the whole beginning chapter, that

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part chapters, that part of the
book is called the Lost Girls because it's

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really all these apomen women and that's
it's their anger and their rage and their

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frustrations that that drove a movement in
so many ways that we're really disordered.

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And just as you said, you
know, they thought that they were doing

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things that would actually help them and
in fact that made things much much worse.

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And you know, this is just
again the cycle that that repeats itself

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and you know, really comes to
a head I think in the sixties and

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seventies. And yet that's what we're
not really supposed to pay attention to because

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again, we're supposed to be so
grateful that we have feminism, you know,

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that we're not supposed to look and
see that, okay, these things

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are actually not doing what we're being
told that they're doing over and over again.

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So yeah, it's this incredible cycle
to see, you know, these

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broken women that have really created public
policy and public perception of what womanhood is.

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You know, shouldn't have any place
in forming the minds of you know,

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anyone, much less young women who
are are trying to figure out who

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they are and what they should be
doing there with their lives and moving forward,

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you know, as women. Right, So, if you just think

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you're talking to a young woman who
doesn't come from a horribly abusive home like

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the majority you know of leading feminists
have, you know, just to describe

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her likely life, you know,
as pattern onto theirs, is just completely

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out of touch, right. You
know, the average woman, thankfully is

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not you know, growing up in
a home where the father is an alcoholic

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and beating the mother you know,
who just puts up with it, and

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so on and so forth, or
whatever other kind of abusive situation you can

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describe, you know. So when
we are you know, yeah, it's

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kind of you know, it's kind
of well, I'm going to talk about

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those psychological issues. I'm still saving
that for later. But before we wanted

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to we get there, I wanted
to talk about could you if you don't

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have your book in front of you. I do. But on page seventy

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seven, Kate Millet or is it
Malay the French pronunciation, but she Millet?

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Okay, so her catechism basically at
her of her group of feminists.

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I found that just wow, it's
right there. It shows it all together.

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It's very direct. They're not hiding
any of this, and you know,

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and then it was if I under
I forget what the decade was for

335
00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:41,359
that. It was around ninety two. Oh no, this is okay.

336
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So this is becoming very conscious and
obvious in that nineteen sixties era or what

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had been planted before. Then do
you hear? Why don't I just unless

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you want to, I'll just read
that. Yeah, why don't you read

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I don't have my book in front
of me, so yeah, I wrote

340
00:23:56,599 --> 00:24:00,400
down I haven't memorized by now,
but I don't. Yeah. I almost

341
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,759
could do it, but I'll just
read it to make sure I'm accurate.

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00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:08,119
Okay. So here I'll show the
cover to our video viewers. But that's

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okay. In late nineteen sixty somewhere
in the West Greenwich Village, Greenwich section

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of New York City, at Lila
Carpe's apartment, Twelve women, led by

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Kate Millett, sat around a large
table and repeated this chant. Why are

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we here today? The chairwoman asked, to make revolution? What kind of

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revolution? The cultural revolution? And
how do we make cultural revolution? By

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destroying the American family? How do
we destroy the American family by destroying the

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American patriarch? How do we destroy
the American patriarch by taking away his power?

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How do we do that by destroying
monogamy? How can we destroy monogamy

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by promoting promiscuity, eroticism, prostitution, abortion, and homosexuality. I just

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found that extremely striking, the explicitness
of it. You know, in late

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nineteen sixties, you know we're talking. I can do math fifty plus years

354
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:07,400
ago, right, you know,
so this is you know, before I

355
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was born. This is I believe
if i've second wave feminism right, so

356
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again to which a lot of women
you know, still still support and right

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there, you know, they basically
say their goal and taking down the patriarchy.

358
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You know, they use sexual promiscuity
and all kinds of forms of destroying

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family and marriage by basically having you
know, sexual forms of sex outside of

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marriage to destroy it in order to
basically destroy the American family. And they

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saw taking down the patriarch or the
father of the home or of the of

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the kind of family line or extended
family as a key person to take down

363
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for that, you know, because
once you knock him down, you can

364
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have all of his goods of aka
you know, his family, everyone he's

365
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:57,119
standing in the way of and protecting. Ideally, So can you what can

366
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you tell me more about the interesting
I mean, I just find that so

367
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strike and the other thing that I'll
say to you, and both of us

368
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are Christian women. To me,
when I read that, I thought,

369
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oh my word, that sounds like
a catechism. This is a pagan catechism.

370
00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:14,480
You know, the question and answer
format very clear. Even a twelve

371
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:17,960
year old could understand that. Yeah, yeah, No, I mean the

372
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fascinating thing about this And I'll have
to actually go back and check the date

373
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because i know you just read it
in late sixties, but it's thereabouts.

374
00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:29,039
But is that Millett was a student
of Wilhelm Reich and he was a member

375
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of the Frankfort School, one of
the New Left and you know, communist,

376
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,160
communist, yeah, intellectual exactly,
yeah, And he wrote the book

377
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Sexual Revolution that became the blueprint for
what became the sexual revolution in the United

378
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States. But they understood the Frankfort
School began to understand through him and Marcusa

379
00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:53,279
that they needed to hit the culture. They couldn't just hit economics or you

380
00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:57,559
know, all of these government agencies
that they were infiltrating. They needed to

381
00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:02,039
go deeper. And so that's where
they really started to push. Angela.

382
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:07,480
Davis is another one where they started
infiltrating universities in academia in particular. So

383
00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:10,839
this is what you know, Cape
millett is is spouting. I mean,

384
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,039
she's studying under him. She knows
that that the effort was to destroy the

385
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:18,680
American family the way that it had
been done so effectively in the Soviet Union,

386
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,119
you know, back at the early
part of the nineteen hundreds, that

387
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,480
when you destroy the family unit,
then everybody's sort of your waging us lost.

388
00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:30,039
Yeah, and that's really what they
wanted to do. And of course,

389
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,839
you know, it's all couched within
this language of you know, feminist

390
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:38,759
freedom and whatnot. So yeah,
it's it's incredibly ugly, and but it's

391
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:41,799
also been incredibly effective. And that's
why, you know, if you'd read

392
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:45,039
that list, you know it's late
nineteen sixties. I mean, none of

393
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,559
those things are popular in the culture
at that point. And now if you

394
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,200
look at the culture now, you
know we've absorbed everywhere and a lot more

395
00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:56,640
than than what started. So you
can see how once you start tearing away

396
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,480
at the family that happens. And
you know, the other thing I just

397
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,440
marvel at, and this was not
in the book, but certainly not at

398
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,599
any kind of length, it's just
how effective feminism has been at silencing men,

399
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,079
not just through the string of things
and destroying the family, but you

400
00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:15,519
know, it's almost like kryptonite,
Like you mentioned the word feminism, and

401
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:19,000
men just know they're not going to
win that conversation in any way, shape

402
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:22,279
or form, and that they don't
want to comment on it. Yeah,

403
00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:26,599
and it's super understandable because they've learned
behavior that this is say never win.

404
00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:30,960
Yeah, but you also see that
this is how why the movement has been

405
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,480
so effective, because it's really about
power. It's not about love, it's

406
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:41,759
not really about helping women as women. It's about power, and that I

407
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:45,039
think is the biggest piece that we
have to struggle with is letting men know

408
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,480
that even if it's in ways that
they're not being confrontational about it. We've

409
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,799
got to start moving beyond this divide. I mean, certainly women has to

410
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:56,920
start with women, but it's got
it. We've got to start healing this

411
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,680
relationship and start seeing that these problems
need to be solved together instead of men

412
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:07,119
just sort of feeling like they're you
know, painted into a corner. And

413
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,960
that's you know, a really hard
and delicate thing to do, because if

414
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,039
first they have this learned pattern of
you know, anything a woman says she's

415
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,400
right and they're wrong, and you
know, you know, the whole routine.

416
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,279
Well, I also think there's kind
of there's been, of course,

417
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:26,119
more recently, kind of a backlash
against that dynamic, but the most I

418
00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:29,920
don't know if it's most prominent,
but very often the kind of young men

419
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,799
who see that dynapkin, they say, oh, this is lose lose for

420
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:34,200
me, and it's fair, you
know, just because I'm a man,

421
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:37,880
I don't get to have input on
lots of important issues that concern men.

422
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,079
You know, they get angry about
that, and sometimes they also lash out

423
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:45,920
out about it, and they don't
sound too good doing that, right,

424
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,559
They might say, you know,
really just you know, extreme things that

425
00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:53,839
won't have anyone's support sometimes, and
you think, well, you know,

426
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,599
you know you're extreme and you're not
right, but also you're you know,

427
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,359
responding to someone else who is extreme, but their extremism is completely accepted in

428
00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:06,359
our culture. Yeah. No,
I think that's exactly right. Yeah.

429
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,079
And you know what I actually I
wanted to ask you about this. I

430
00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:15,799
think it's in your introduction you recount
an anecdote. I think it's Jordan Peterson

431
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:21,079
and Camille Pollia talking about this this
say, this problem of this war between

432
00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:23,160
the sexes that we have just amped
up to such a great degree in our

433
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,960
culture. And Camille says, you
know, I think, you know,

434
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,440
the men need to start standing up
for themselves, if I remember correctly,

435
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,799
and Jordan Peterson says, look,
you know, men can't have fights with

436
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:36,759
women. It's it's really like one
of the problem, like one of just

437
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:41,039
the basic difficulties or divisions between the
sexes is men cannot engage women on the

438
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:45,559
same terms that they engage men on
because men know that, you know,

439
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,880
after very tough words come punches,
and men, you know, any decent

440
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,319
man is not going to start punching
a woman no matter you know, no

441
00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:56,599
matter what. So you know,
but when but they're egged on and they're

442
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,319
egged on, and when women kind
of trends, you know, men know

443
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:03,000
because a punch maybe awaiting that they
don't get to the level of aggression where

444
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:06,319
the punch is the next thing,
right, So that's kind of like an

445
00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:10,680
internal self restraint among men that women
don't have, you know, so women

446
00:31:10,759 --> 00:31:12,839
have. You know, men and
women sometimes will push to the level and

447
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,119
beyond of the punch stage. You
know, if she was a man,

448
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,680
she get decked. But you know, but the man just has to shut

449
00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:22,039
up because obviously he's not going to
punch a woman. So that kind of

450
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:27,920
creates this situation you just mentioned where
men feel like they have no legitimate arsenal

451
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,240
with which to say, look,
you know, we feel like are we're

452
00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:34,839
not being hurt either, you know, so it's it just creates almost this

453
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,200
Gordian knot what's you know, almost
unsolvable of you know, both men and

454
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,839
women are angry at each other and
they can't you know, kind of come

455
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,279
come eye to eye to each other, and you know, the you know,

456
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:48,279
so kind of what do you think
is the way out of that.

457
00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:52,279
I think you have an indication.
I don't know that anyone. I don't

458
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:55,000
know that there's really a good way
out, you know. But do you

459
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:59,119
think Camille Paglia is right? You
know? Should the men be the ones

460
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,880
to stand up elves and say,
look, I'm not taking this or I'm

461
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,720
not engaging with this because this is
you know, unprofessional treatment or whatever.

462
00:32:06,079 --> 00:32:07,480
Or should the women, you know, be the ones to I mean,

463
00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:13,319
what can be done about that situation
by people of good will? Yeah?

464
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:16,720
I really have come to think that
it has to be the women because you

465
00:32:16,759 --> 00:32:21,799
know, men, although I will
say, you know, Matt Wallace has

466
00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:24,759
done more for women with that question
what is a woman than probably anyone who's

467
00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:29,240
done in a long time, that
very socratic question, you know, basic

468
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:32,160
question. I think has really woken
a lot of people up and started them

469
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,599
thinking like why why is this so
hard to define? So I think that

470
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,319
there can be effective ways, but
they just can't be that typical dynamic that

471
00:32:39,359 --> 00:32:45,160
you just describe that Jordan Peterson was
explaining that that that kind of dealing with

472
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,759
the problem. But you know,
it's interesting because we talk about this every

473
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,960
election cycle, you know, the
women's vote is it's something that it seems

474
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,319
sort of this immovable thing. I
mean, these these we can talk about

475
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:00,079
this on the micro level of the
late ships, but we also see on

476
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:05,480
the macro level with the way in
which women vote. But I think that

477
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:12,160
there has to be something coming from
other women where we start showing everyone that

478
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,839
there's a different way to be a
woman than a narcissist, than self absorbed

479
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:17,359
and focused on our careers. I
mean, this is what the culture has

480
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,480
been telling us, and you know, over and over and over again for

481
00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:24,680
fifty years. So most of us
are really recovering from feminism and one degree

482
00:33:24,759 --> 00:33:29,720
or another because it's just been so
ingrained in us. But yeah, I

483
00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:32,559
think it's you know, if you
look around and start seeing anybody and try

484
00:33:32,599 --> 00:33:35,519
to answer the question, you know, what do we do about the women's

485
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,359
vote, there's crickets. There's really
very very little that's that's done about it.

486
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,799
And you know, I noticed this
and the research that I did from

487
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:45,839
my book The Anti Mary Exposed,
where suddenly became very clear that the reason

488
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,759
why we have this struggle is because
women are getting a constant, you know,

489
00:33:51,839 --> 00:33:57,079
fire hose of information from elite women
who all have the same narrative,

490
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,599
and as conservatives, we have not
in any way pushed back against that.

491
00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:05,039
We haven't filled up the gaps.
We're not. We just see it as

492
00:34:05,079 --> 00:34:08,599
fluff or something unimportant, and in
fact that there's a kind of content that

493
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:13,239
women love, that women absorb.
And you know, this is why my

494
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,719
colleague Noel Marrying and I have done
created that theology of homebooks is to try

495
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,199
and help recreate some kind of grammar
for womanhood, but do it in a

496
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,199
way that women liked to absorb.
Content with beautiful images, like a magazine

497
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:29,760
is more of a coffee table book. But we have to use these kinds

498
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,159
of tools to help women instead of
expecting that we're just going to be able

499
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,440
to reason them out of it,
because logic and reason are no longer really

500
00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:43,039
available to us and the way that
they would have been, you know one

501
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:45,760
hundred years ago even or fifty years
ago. You know, but we've been

502
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:54,320
so formed by emotion and visuals and
you know the appearance of sexiness or being

503
00:34:54,360 --> 00:35:00,280
cool or whatever that we don't those
things are very hard to penetrate and sort

504
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,719
of crack open, like what's really
going on there. So rather than trying

505
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,840
to debunk all that, I think
that there has to be a really concerted

506
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,920
effort to start presenting women in a
different way and that you know, that

507
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,119
breaks through this leftist hold on the
way women are presented. And you know,

508
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,360
I know we have the money,
but do we have the resources of

509
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,599
will to start trying to help women
who you know, may not read regularly,

510
00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:27,320
or may not you know, may
not even have family members that they

511
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,639
have seen that live a different life. How do we help women break out

512
00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:31,800
of this to see there's a different
way of life? And I think that's

513
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,800
really where we're going to find a
lot of fruit and people's lives change.

514
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:38,800
And I know, just even from
our books, you know, we hear

515
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,800
stories, you know, every few
days about women who's who's think you know,

516
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,360
it's saved their marriage, or they've
thought think differently about themselves being at

517
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:52,119
home, or you know, we
just heard this one beautiful story about a

518
00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:55,079
woman who lost her son and she
was a interior designer and it just really

519
00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:59,360
helped her heel through that. So
I think there's all of these things that

520
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,000
we have at our disposal that we're
just not you know, tapping into yet

521
00:36:04,039 --> 00:36:07,639
that could be really effective, much
more so than you know, the constant

522
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,519
battle between the sexes. Yeah,
I think that's getting right into that section

523
00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:16,480
and question that I've been signed posting
this whole time about how this a lot

524
00:36:16,519 --> 00:36:21,800
of this is very much latent inside
all of our heads as unconscious imagery of

525
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,280
what the good life looks like as
a woman. You know, the vast

526
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:30,320
majority of the images available are of
women who sacrifice relationships for money. Now,

527
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,679
you know, we're we and I
are both professional educated women. We

528
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,360
enjoy exercising those parts of us.
So we're not talking about you know,

529
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,880
getting rid of that or you know, or that it can't be part of

530
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:46,199
a well rounded life. We're talking
about completely sacrificing and eliminating the nurturing and

531
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:51,880
mothering aspect of oneself to live in
a holy masculine way, you know.

532
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,880
So I also think I think many
women have been traumatized by those incessant images

533
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,119
and ideas that tell us being a
woman isn't there's it's really bad you know

534
00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:04,639
if you if you don't do it
in a certain way and basically act like

535
00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:07,079
a man, you're evil. I
mean, I think that does contribute to

536
00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:09,920
girls who hit puberty and say I
don't want to be a girl. You

537
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,719
know, I hate periods. This
sucks. I'm scared of having a baby.

538
00:37:14,119 --> 00:37:15,960
Nobody tells me that's a good thing, and what's beautiful about? And

539
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,960
how our society can't run without people
doing that? Why don't I just be

540
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,239
a boy instead? And I also, you know, many women also have

541
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:28,599
an instinctive feeling or worry that men
are latent or even active oppressors as an

542
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:34,679
entire group, not just specific actual
abusers individuals, and many women, you

543
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,639
know, which includes me for most
of my life, you know, have

544
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,559
a fear that if we let men
lead our families and lead you know,

545
00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:46,559
engines of society, it will mean
oppression for women that we can't contribute and

546
00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:51,480
be you know, equal partners whose
voices are heard. So how can we

547
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:57,800
reconcile that deep emotional animosity and fear
that many women have, which is legitimate

548
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,599
and real, you know, sometimes
it comes from actual experiences of true abuse.

549
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,719
How can we reconcile that deep fear
with how we're talking about these things

550
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:13,039
and presenting to women an alternative and
saying, you know, maybe feminism isn't

551
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:15,719
all it's cracked up to be,
and there's another way to live that will

552
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,559
make you joyful. Yeah, no, I think that's a great question.

553
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:22,480
And you know, I think it's
always important to remember that this didn't come

554
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,920
out of a vacuum. You know, really there is there are obviously very

555
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,039
bad men who have done very bad
things. And you know, that was

556
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:32,840
one of the other patterns that I
saw in the eighteen hundreds was just the

557
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,760
amazing amount of just abuse that a
lot of women went through. And this

558
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,920
is what was motivating that they're early
feminists, and you know, it's certainly

559
00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:46,679
understandable. But I think that that's
you know, goes back to that question

560
00:38:46,679 --> 00:38:51,960
of what's how do you break out
of that? How do you and what

561
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,880
the culture is teaching us is not
in any way breaking out of it.

562
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,039
I mean, if you look at
what the hookup culture has done, just

563
00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:01,440
re traumatizing people, re traumatizing people
over and over and over and over again,

564
00:39:02,039 --> 00:39:06,639
rather than you know, if you
think about the good Father, I

565
00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:08,880
mean, the good Father stands in
the way and protects a young girl.

566
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:14,119
Because girls don't know what they're getting
into, they don't realize, you know,

567
00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:15,159
the importance of that day. They
don't realize to it. And this

568
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,159
was something that I started thinking about
a lot when I was writing the book.

569
00:39:19,199 --> 00:39:22,960
You know, just that that power
of vulnerability. This is what happens

570
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,039
when you have a child with somebody
use you. No matter how healthy you

571
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:30,239
are, you are going to become
vulnerable, and your child is vulnerable as

572
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,480
well. And this is why we
live in community with each other, so

573
00:39:34,519 --> 00:39:38,599
that there is somebody someone to help
and protect and provide in that that instance,

574
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:44,280
so that both of you can carry
on the future in that child.

575
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:49,559
And when that image gets disrupted and
it ends up being all about acquisition,

576
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,039
you know, that's when you're going
to have real problems. And you know,

577
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:55,559
I think that there's I mean,
thank goodness, there are opportunities for

578
00:39:55,599 --> 00:40:00,639
people to heal from this kind of
thing. But it's not going to happen

579
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,199
through following again and again and again
what the culture is telling us to do.

580
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:07,480
I mean, that's that. I
think that's the saddest part is that,

581
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:14,440
you know, you can really see
this with people just continually, you

582
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,639
know, reopening the same wound or
getting new wounds or going deeper, you

583
00:40:17,679 --> 00:40:22,079
know, adding new problems to their
lives because they don't know how to sort

584
00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:27,599
of get out of that cycle.
But yeah, I think it's it's one

585
00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:30,760
of those things where we also have
to be those of us who don't have

586
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,400
these wounds or who have healed from
these wounds need to, you know,

587
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:38,000
have really deep compassion and of our
assistance too. I know that, you

588
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,039
know, one of the things that
I wish we had more of in this

589
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:45,239
culture is a sense of mentoring.
And this again when the family, you

590
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,599
know, the extended family, like
ah, there's sometimes I just wish I

591
00:40:49,639 --> 00:40:52,159
could talk to my grandmother, you
know, and get her wisdom and insights

592
00:40:52,199 --> 00:40:58,400
and you know, know that she
went through a lot in her life,

593
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,199
the Second World War and whatnot.
But you know, it's that kind of

594
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:05,440
thing that I think a lot of
women who are older feel like, well,

595
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,400
what would I even say or how
can I help someone? And it

596
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,719
can happen in very tangible ways.
I mean, similar to magazines like teach

597
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,880
someone how to can Like I would
love to spend some time with a woman

598
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,360
that could teach me how to you
know, I taught myself. I think

599
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,800
I just YouTube videos. I mean, how much do we do with YouTube

600
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,840
videos? Whereas if I had a
neighbor that said, you know, I'm

601
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,639
going to be doing some canning,
would you like to come learn how to

602
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:29,800
do it, like that would be
a much more pleasant way to learn.

603
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,519
And I think that there's all those
kinds of opportunities that you know, are

604
00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:37,559
missed because we feel like, well
we don't want to impose or whatnot,

605
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:40,320
but that that we need to start
thinking more purposefully about that, or even

606
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:46,039
sharing stories older women sharing stories of
their lives and their own kind of wisdom,

607
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,559
you know. I think those are
the kinds of things that may not

608
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:53,599
be you know, show results immediately, but are going to plant seeds for

609
00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:57,840
younger women to think, yeah,
this is all my grandmother or my aunt

610
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,360
or whomever you know did that.
I think those are really beautiful ways that

611
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,000
we can start reforming our kind of
moral imagination about what it means to be

612
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:12,800
women instead of kind of just being
stuck in these silos of you know,

613
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,800
sex in the city or you know
or whatever. We've got to kind of

614
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:24,119
break out of these very cookie cutter
and disordered kinds of understandings of womanhood.

615
00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:28,800
Yeah, and I think, actually, yeah, like you say, relationships

616
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,559
maybe the most healing thing, you
know, because I'm just thinking about you

617
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:36,639
know, so I have had to
do a number of like major mind shifts

618
00:42:36,639 --> 00:42:38,559
on not you know, on many
things, but including you know, this

619
00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:43,199
issue in that sort of internal sense. And I I think, you know,

620
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,239
possibly the most important figure and that
has been my husband, you know,

621
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,280
who has been able to be I
mean. And so you know,

622
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,920
if there's some men listening who wonder
about this, like you know, all

623
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,159
the women in your life are feeling
not maybe not all know, most of

624
00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:59,960
the women in your life are battered
by this. You know, these image

625
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:05,159
has been presented to them that are
totally out of step with their their given

626
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,880
natures as women. And you know, I think there's absolutely a role there

627
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:15,800
for men to be just patient and
kind and loving leaders of women, you

628
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,440
know, always showing them. Look, you know, you know I do

629
00:43:19,519 --> 00:43:22,360
care about you, and I will
show that in these clear ways. I'm

630
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,360
there for you, you know,
when you are hurt, I listened to

631
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:30,119
you, you know, and just
all those supportive ways as well as you

632
00:43:30,119 --> 00:43:32,679
know, saying you know, look, I mean my husband has said this

633
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:37,440
to me, you know, right, like you don't need to treat me

634
00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:40,559
like I'm just some generic jerk,
right, you know you married me,

635
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:45,199
you know, like, how about
you assume that I love you? Right?

636
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:47,360
Start with that, right, And
then you hear that, you think,

637
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:53,480
well, that is a good point. I have men, I cannot

638
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:58,400
argue with that, right. We
have a long and deep history of him

639
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,360
showing up from me in moments of
need. Right. So I mean,

640
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,199
yeah, so I do think,
you know that both women and men can

641
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,559
be a part of that healing process. But I think actually that that is

642
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:15,800
something that's pretty much entirely out of
like the social media or the like conservative

643
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,360
chat sphere sort of thing, because
that is just a really harsh it's a

644
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,440
come out of environment. And what
we're talking about is one on one relationship,

645
00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:27,559
showing people love for years at a
time, you know, having those

646
00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:31,400
conversations with them. And you know, I would add one of the things

647
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,400
that I've seen with my work.
A number of years ago, I was

648
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,679
I spoke at Georgetown University and there
were some young men that asked I don't

649
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:43,519
remember what the question was, but
I remember just explaining, you know,

650
00:44:43,559 --> 00:44:46,760
women, we have been so brainwashed
for fifty years. We have been told

651
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,440
so many lies about who we are, about who men are, about what

652
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:55,559
our relationships should look like and what
our futures should look like, that you

653
00:44:55,599 --> 00:45:00,239
know, we need to have a
huge amount of compassion on women. It

654
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,400
was really interesting because I watched these
young men and their body language is changed

655
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,559
dramatically. You know, they were
feeling I think there was a sense of

656
00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:12,199
resentment and sort of feistiness initially with
the question, and then the more I

657
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,280
spoke, you can just see them
like letting it go and just thinking,

658
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:20,719
like thinking about women in a completely
different way and realizing like, yeah,

659
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,320
these you know, this is almost
I need to feel compassionate towards women and

660
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:28,239
help be patient with them because they
have been lied to and they don't even

661
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,760
we don't even know how deeply we
have been lied to and misinformed about all

662
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,400
of it. So yeah, I
think it can go a very long way

663
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,079
if a man can sort of shift
his own attitude and from thinking I hate

664
00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:45,280
women, they're awful to Okay,
women just need a lot more than they've

665
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,000
been given, and how do we
be patient work with that moving forward?

666
00:45:49,039 --> 00:45:52,480
Everything? It can go a long
way. And I do wonder if there's

667
00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:55,320
kind of this sense like as women, we know that we are vulnerable,

668
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,440
and so that just makes us I
mean I shouldn't speak for all women,

669
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,039
you know, but for myself,
it makes me more afraid, right,

670
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:06,880
So you might expect to be victimized
because you're like, I'm victimizable. If

671
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,079
somebody, you know, wanted to
grab me in a parking lot, it'd

672
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:14,840
be rough, right. And men
don't have that orientation towards the world,

673
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:16,719
and so, you know, so
it's hard for them to get inside our

674
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,679
heads unless they might hear us say
something like that and say, oh wow,

675
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,000
that's what it's like for you.
Yeah, and you see that.

676
00:46:24,039 --> 00:46:28,960
I mean, there's a great book
that I reference in in this book,

677
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:36,840
the Warriors Versus Warriors by Joyce.
I think it's Benson Benon Bears for Ben

678
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,199
Inson, I can't remember, but
that's the title of a book, Warriors

679
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,639
Versus Warriors. And it's really interesting
because she she makes that very point that

680
00:46:43,679 --> 00:46:47,480
a lot of things that motivate women
are because of our vulnerability, especially positioning

681
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,360
ourselves or our children in such a
way where we're kind of in this underground,

682
00:46:52,519 --> 00:46:57,880
quiet competition, you know, fighting
everybody else to sort of get the

683
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,159
rewards, you know. So it's
it's or to get a better light for

684
00:47:01,199 --> 00:47:05,239
ourselves because we don't have the capacity
to do that through our own strength,

685
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,280
and because oftentimes we are so vulnerable
because we are pregnant or having children or

686
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,440
bearing children or you know, children
to raise, or just physically smaller you

687
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,440
know, Yeah, and exactly that
too. So those are the kinds of

688
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,079
motivations that I think when we're aware
of them, as women and men are

689
00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:24,440
aware of them, then it makes
a lot easier, like makes a lot

690
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:30,679
more sense to see what's what's motivating
us. So I'm going to switch to

691
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,199
prop I mean, just a completely
different topic. But so usually when I

692
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,920
read, you know, so you
know books, I get lots of books

693
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,280
for my job, and you know, when they come with you know,

694
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,079
like a promotional package, press release
and so forth, you know, they'll

695
00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:46,199
typically include questions. And I think
I'm a real journalist. I read the

696
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,679
actual documents and I come up with
my own questions. But there was one

697
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,960
on your list that I loved and
can't resist asking, and it is is

698
00:47:54,079 --> 00:48:00,000
feminism compatible with Christianity? M Yeah, I think that's a great question.

699
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,679
I did not come up with that
question. I think, you know,

700
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,239
based on what I was saying before. If you look at Christianity and you

701
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,599
look at what feminism is at the
core, you know, it's free love,

702
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,800
which of course is not edible Christianity. It's the occult also not credible

703
00:48:17,079 --> 00:48:22,480
understanding, and it's you know,
smashing the patriarchy. So you know,

704
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:28,679
our whole faith is built on patriarchal
order, you know, going back to

705
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,280
the beginning, you know, to
old testaments. So innated as a man,

706
00:48:32,679 --> 00:48:37,239
that's right, I think the answer
is no. And again, you

707
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:43,039
know, I'm I think that there
is room for for you know, narrowly

708
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:46,519
defining exactly what you mean by feminism
if you insist on using the term.

709
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:52,079
But I think in general it's just
creates so much confusion because then Christians that

710
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:57,079
they're they're using it in ways that
they don't even really know what they mean.

711
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,480
So yeah, I think it's and
actually I think it's I think it's

712
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,039
a lot worse than all that,
because if you look at just what it's

713
00:49:04,039 --> 00:49:08,960
done to sever that relationship between mother
and child and the whole abortion movement.

714
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:14,440
You know, we actually as a
planet, we abort more children than people

715
00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:19,440
die of any other disease or any
other heart disease, cancer, And it's

716
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,400
a huge number. It's like ten
million more people are aborted then die from

717
00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:28,599
COVID or whatever. Then you know, the numbers are really ghastly. And

718
00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:32,400
these are not civil wars, these
are not hot wars. These are you

719
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:37,400
know, mothers. And I think
that that alone should scare all of us

720
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:42,199
into really realizing, like, this
is deadly. You know, this is

721
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,159
a huge it's just like gutmaker.
I think it's this year is projecting something

722
00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:50,400
like seventy three million abortions. That's
more than the whole population of the UK.

723
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,000
So if you think when you start
seeing it on that scale, you

724
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:57,800
don't mean just this year alone,
you mean total in the US since Row

725
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,440
versus Wade. No, no,
I mean in the world and the world

726
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,360
okay, we'll want to share.
Seventy three million abortions will be performed sixty

727
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,679
nine million people that live in the
UK. So imagine just the UK wiped

728
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:15,239
out, that's the equivalent. So
I think that that alone just needs to

729
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,559
give us pause and say, what
do we Why would we want in any

730
00:50:19,559 --> 00:50:22,960
way? You know, we see
that these are the elements of it.

731
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:27,239
Why would we want in any way
to perpetuate this when it has been such

732
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,920
a force of destruction of our families, our homes, our lives, and

733
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:35,599
now our our bodies and our children. So yeah, I think pretty definitively.

734
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,639
It's, you know, unless you're
super careful about what you mean,

735
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:44,519
you mean something else, it's it's
just not compatible. And I just wonder,

736
00:50:44,639 --> 00:50:46,920
why would you not take the you
know, key the leading lights of

737
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:52,920
feminism at their word that you know, they support the occult, they support

738
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,679
the abortion, the mass murder of
children inside their mother's rooms, they support

739
00:50:57,079 --> 00:50:58,679
I mean, you know, not
all of them, but you know,

740
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:04,000
there is definitely I think you can
take a definite line from the division of

741
00:51:04,039 --> 00:51:09,199
the sexes and the sublimation of femininity
to masculinity that you know, career as

742
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:13,639
feminism does. I think you can
draw straight line from that to transgenderism,

743
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,440
right because it's just bodily reflecting what
is already spiritually being imposed on people,

744
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,719
you know. And so if you
look at all those sort of things that

745
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,760
are just like straight up abominations,
and the people who are pushing them,

746
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,320
the majority of them, the leaders
of them, say we're doing this in

747
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,360
the name of feminism. I think
that's something you have to grapple with.

748
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,840
You can't just wave it away and
say, oh, they're just they've all

749
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,840
been lying this whole time. They
didn't believe they were lying yeah, no,

750
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,199
I mean one of the most striking
things that Kate Millett said was that

751
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:50,079
she was very motivated by the capacity
of soldiers to kill innocent people in Vietnam,

752
00:51:50,679 --> 00:51:52,480
and she said, you know,
women have to be just as strong

753
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,880
or if not stronger, and kill
their own children. And that was her

754
00:51:57,039 --> 00:52:01,719
reasoning for abortion, was that she
thought that was just important that women had

755
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:07,360
that kind of strength. She called
it strength to kill their own children.

756
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,159
So there, you know, if
you when you and I think that's the

757
00:52:09,199 --> 00:52:13,920
other amazing thing is just to look
back and see what these people actually have

758
00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:17,960
said and do say. And it's
amazing too how one of one thread of

759
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,360
feminism, the academic thread, is
super convoluted. It's always very hard to

760
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,880
read. And I think that's how
they hide a lot of things, like

761
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,760
if I just say this with a
tough academic jargon, people won't really know

762
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,000
what I mean. But then you
have someone like Gloria Steinem and certainly Kate

763
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,079
Millett and others who have said the
most outrageous things, and just people again,

764
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:38,840
like you said, they sort of
dismissed them, like, oh,

765
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:45,639
she's kind of the the outlier or
whatnot. But these are really the women

766
00:52:45,679 --> 00:52:51,000
that were the engine behind it and
motivated so much of the public policy that

767
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,679
we see in the culture today.
For me, this whole, this whole

768
00:52:53,679 --> 00:52:57,760
the dealing with like the feminism issue
is like, yeah, I've, I've,

769
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,280
I've signaled throughout this podcast. It's
some. It's also been kind of

770
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:05,760
a psychological journey towards wholeness, right. It kind of disentangled that those habits

771
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,840
of thinking from my own and to
just feel so much more happiness and freedom

772
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:13,280
and being a woman. So there's
a lot that this book has to offer

773
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,719
here, and thank you Carrie for
joining the show today to tell people about

774
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,599
it. Thank you so much for
having me on. It's great to get

775
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:22,760
an endorsement like that, So thanks
Joy. Carrie Gress is a fellow at

776
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,519
the Ethics and Public Policy Center in
Washington, DC and the author of the

777
00:53:27,559 --> 00:53:30,719
brand new book The End of Woman, How Smashing the Patriarchy has destroyed Us.

778
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:35,480
I really enjoyed that and our conversation
together. And thank you all for

779
00:53:35,559 --> 00:53:39,199
listening to the Federalist Radio Hour.
Don't forget to be lovers of freedom and

780
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:40,320
anxious for the fray