Welcome to the crown On InCor Greyhounds. This is Richmond Till We Die,
a conversation about the Apple TV Plus show ted Lasso, where we explore the
characters, their relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us
laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and then feel with the deepest parts
of our hearts the next. I'm Brett and I think I may have finally
found my doorway to wear. In today's episode, alongside my co host Marissa
and Christian, I am ridiculously excited to introduce our guest for today, the
co creator, executive producer, songwriter, and showrunner of the Apple TV Plus
series Schmigadoon Sinko Paul. In addition to Schmigadoon, Sinko Paul is also known
for his work as a screenwriter for beloved films like Horton, Here's a Who,
The Lorax, The Secret Life of Pets, and The Pickable Me trilogy,
all of which he worked on with his longtime friend and collaborator Ken Dario.
Because of the overlapping themes and general good vibes of both shows, there
are many Ted Lasso fans who are also Schmegadoon fans, But if you have
yet to make your own journey to the quaint little town of Schmeigadoon, allow
me to provide a brief synopsis before we get into our conversation. Schmeegadoon is
a musical comedy series that centers on the relationship of two New York City doctors,
Josh and Melissa, played by Keegan, Michael Key, and Cecily Strong,
respectively. The show is a brilliant love letter to musical theater, which
also cleverly parodies many of the genre's most recognizable features through hilarious and heartfelt performances
from the a list cast of musical theater stars. The first season premiered on
Apple TV Plus in July twenty twenty one, and the second season, titled
Schicago, is currently midway through its six episode run. Schmeegadoon Season one follows
Josh and Melissa as they embark on a backpacking trip in an attempt to patch
up their failing relationship. They get austin the woods and soon discover a magical
town called Schmigadoon, which is perpetually trapped in the esthetics and musical stylings of
Golden Age musicals like Oklahoma and the Music Man. Melissa and Josh soon learn
that they cannot leave the town until they find true love, and in the
second season, a recently married Melissa and Josh are struggling with feelings of unhappiness,
so they resolve to return to the quaint town of Schmigadoon in search of
a remedy. Unfortunately, their journey into the woods leads them to Schmicago,
a magical city that pays satirical homage to the sexier, darker musicals of the
nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies. In order to escape, they must find a
happy end. In case it wasn't already abundantly clear, we hear at Richmond
Till We Die are huge fans of Schmigadoon. Luckily, Sinko is a big
fan of ted Lasso too, and so we were thrilled to have an opportunity
to chat with the man who helped create another one of our favorite shows.
And let this be your official warning. There are some light spoilers for the
first four episodes of ted Lasso's third season, as well as the first three
episodes of Schmickadon's A second season in this episode, So Greyhounds please join us
in giving a warm welcome to Sinco. Paul, thank you so much for
being here with us. Sinko Ah, thanks so much for having me very
excited. We're thrilled you're here. And one of the things that's brought us
together today is you are a fan of ted Lasso. So why did you
decide to start watching the show or what kept you watching the show? Well,
you know, I feel very connected to the show, and thank heavens
for ted Lasso, right for I mean for my show. Right It's helped
my show so much. It helped really launch Apple TV plus in a big
way. So I'm sure initially I was curious about it because of that,
right because oh, you know, Apple bought my show. Here's their first
big comedy coming out. I should check that out. And always have been
as Todcas fan, you know, for the longest time. So and I
think, I, you know, I'm kind of a sports guy, although
not a soccer or you know, football as it's called Hill as a fam
but I'd seen his like bits, you know, and so so because of
that, so I started watching out of curiosity. But then I was really
pulled in by you know, my show also really wears its heart on its
sleeve, and it is kind of meant to be an antidote to cynicism and
all those sort of things. And I just felt like, oh my gosh,
this is a show after my own heart that had a very like I
always feel like everything I do, I'm trying to redo. It's a wonderful
life, right, and it's a very George Bailey Jimmy Stewart sort of character.
So so I think I was looked right from the first episode because I
said, oh, I see what this is show is doing, and I
freaking love it. It's fitting that you mentioned it's a wonderful life and George
Bailey, because isn't Ted watching It's a Wonderful Life in the Christmas episode and
season? Isn't that on the TV? So I think that's a film that
Jason really enjoys two from what we've read and even seen in the show.
So and like Ted Lasso himself speaking of you clearly love musical theater. Thinking
back, what was your introduction to the genre and what is it that made
you fall in love or maybe stay in love with it for this long?
Yeah, I think. I mean it started with my mom playing her records,
you know, when I was a little kid, and so these cast
recordings of Camelot. I particularly remember Camelot in South Pacific and My Fair Lady
and Guys and Dolls. I think I still have the LPs that I inherited
from her of those, but that when I was a really little kid,
I kind of fell in love with it. Then I think what really pulled
me in was I'm a freshman in high school. I played piano ever since
I was like five. I was a classical pianist, and you know,
and they asked me if I had accompany the school music, which is how
to succeed in business, and changed my life because I found my people,
you know, I found my tribe, and it's like, oh, this
is my group. And I loved it. And I was really good at
playing piano by ear. So I would sit at the piano and they would
call out songs and I'd play them and they'd sing them, and I just
felt like a superhero ors you know, I just felt like so loved.
And also, you know, that's where all the girls were, so it
was also like they'd sit down at the bench on the bench next to me,
and I was just like, I'm in heaven. I never want to
leave this place. So I ended up playing piano for like my first three
years, and I always I wanted to be on stage, you know,
really badly, and so finally my senior year they let me. And you
know, I had one of the leads in the musical. But yeah,
that's not my thing. I'm a horrible actor, but it was nice of
them to give me the chance to be on stage finally. Wow. Well,
I'm so excited that you said that, because I'm a singer and a
pianist as well, and that's kind of how I got my start, was
accompanying for shows. And oh you know, it takes a very special skill
to do that. I mean, you could be a great piano player,
but the company for musical theater just works so many other muscles and I love
that too, So I'm great. Great to hear. Yeah, yeah,
that's the best, right you have to follow the singers. It's a collaborative
effort. Yeah, totally. We've mentioned a couple of different similarities between ted
Lasso and Schmigadon. Another one is that both shows have developed musical motifs for
certain characters. It's something that we talked about with Tom Howe, one of
the composers for the show, when we interviewed him. And so, while
it's common in film scores and stage work, not so much in television.
What are the challenges and rewards of that approach in this television medium and why
do you think the motif of the technique works so well for both shows?
Um? Boy, I can mostly speak to my own show, you know,
I mean, we're a musical, so it's like, you know,
it's very easy to find everybody's theme. It's the song that they last saw,
right, And so so Christopher Willis, who does all of our score,
our underscore mostly he just likes took all the melodies from my songs and
it was really important to you keep those melodies alive. But it also like
works really well emotionally, right. I Mean, it's like music is so
powerful, so all you have to do is hear the theme and you remember,
oh, I remember when the mayor sang that song about wanting to let
everybody know he's gay, but he can't, you know, And so whenever
you play that, it's just like it takes you back to that place.
So it's a shorthand, right, it's really valuable. I never saw it
as any sort of challenge and but just like a great tool to use in
storytelling and character work. I think I've noticed, you know, in season
two of Schicago, we even have those motifs coming back from season one,
which I watched with some of our college students, and some of them had
seen Schmigadoon and some of them were starting with Chicago, and so those who
I think had watched for the first season, it just makes you feel more
embedded in the story when you get to you know, recall who they were
last season and who they are this season. So I just I love that
they gets so creative and wonderful. Oh thanks, yeah, that's I love
it too. There's I think there's a really impactful moment when Cecily's characters meets
Alan's character in Chicago, and of course she had a real connection to him
in Schmigadoon, but he doesn't remember her, so there's this bitter sweet thing
and then when his theme plays over that, it's just like I actually get
a little teary. It's yes, because you remember, oh she remembers him,
and they were really good friends. But now we doesn't remember her.
It's kind of sad, but so yeah, it's I mean, the power
of music, man, it is. It is the best and that and
you see that all through ted Lasso too, right in song selection and all
that sort of stuff. Yeah, and Hannah singing and yeah, she's truly
amazing. And I think one of the reasons that so many fans cross over
from ted Lasso Schmigadoon is because of just the honesty and characters which you know,
and I don't know, maybe you can say what sort of how you
would define Schmigadoon, you know, is it a parody? You know?
It feels like a love letter to musical theater, you know, and I
think that's why so many fans you know, fall in love with it and
just appreciate, you know, even as they started their journey through the woods
in season two and you hear that little into the Woods, Oh, it's
just like it just gives you those you know, those little nuggets where if
you know, you know, and you just feel so special, like getting
those little surprise Easter eggs all throughout. Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned
that, because that was one little thing. I thought, there's there are
a couple who are struggling to have a child, and I go into the
woods. So it's very very into the woods. And also the sense that
we're kind of like act two of Into the Woods in season two of Schmigadoon.
As far as Ted Lasso and our show lining up, like my dream
was that someone would do an article saying like perfect companion, Apple now has
like the perfect set of comedies. And someone wrote that article and it was
just like Ted Lasso and Schmigadoon, like it's just like this earnest you know,
hopeful shows you know that go well together. And it made me so
happy because I really aspired to be like that. We will never have the
audience that Ted does, but but I love whenever we're lapt in, you
know, with that show well as as an educator of music or educator too,
I think the audience will only continue to grow, as it seems to
do with musical theater pieces, you know, and especially as you you're building
the genre and the history of it throughout, you know, eras and I've
taught musical theater history and I just think, oh my gosh, I never
have to teach this class again. I'm just gonna make them watch Chicago.
So I just want to tell you thank you right away. Oh, you're
welcome. We we did it for the music theater history features perfect. Well.
Kind of on that note, actually, I'm curious just if you if
you're able to give us a little bit of peek into the macro creative process
behind Schmigadoon in Chicago, Like, at what point did you know it was
going to be kind of a blended or sort of mixed anthology series where you
followed protagonists, but you were going to be progressing through you know, music
theater history chronologically. Yeah, as soon as we knew, because when we
pitched the show, we didn't really know what shape it would take. You
know, how many episodes a season? We didn't really know that. And
so then Apple kind of like clarified that for us, like we're doing this
amount of episodes. And so as soon as that was locked in, I
said, okay, well, I have more than six episodes of what I
want to do with this show in me, and there's going to be multiple
seasons. And right at that point, I thought, oh, each season
is going to go into a different era of musicals, so very early on
I had that, but I didn't know for sure if we were going to
get a second season. So you know, you finished the first season keeping
your fingers crossed, and I pulled a lot of the cast aside and said,
if we get to do a second season, how'd you like to be
Sally Bulls? And you know, are telling Ariana what do you think of
being the MC or? I told Aaron, you know, Pipin meets Jesus,
and you know, just to see all their eyes, see their eyes
light up, it was just the best feeling. It's like I said,
oh, I pray, I pray that we can get a second season.
So it was so great when we had that opportunity. And so then it
is just like it's your dream casting all your favorite shows, you know.
I mean, my favorite musical of all time is Sweeney Todd and Pipton is
also really close. So I knew I wanted those shows for sure. And
then you know, who wouldn't want to see Sweeney Todd with Alan Cumming and
Kristin Chenowith as totally in love it? Oh my gosh, it's amazing.
Well where were you going? Well? I was just gonna say, Britt
and I were talking last night and he was like, oh my gosh,
just to be single, Paul, and you're you're amazing as a creative yourself.
But to have people like aarontivate like singing your songs. I mean,
what does that like? To have these powerhouses just crushing what you created?
I mean it is like I have to pinch myself off and on set and
I just I take a step back sometimes because you sometimes get so mired in
everything else. But it's just like, oh my gosh, I wrote a
song in the style of Steven Sundheime, my hero, and Kristin Chenowith is
singing it right now. It's like, this is crazy. How did this
ever happen? And there's one song, there's a love duet in episode four.
It's a song that I actually wrote the melody of when I was like
nineteen, and it's always sort of stuck with me because I was very enamored
of Stephen Schwartz, so it's very much in his style. But when I
watched them singing that song, I was like, oh my gosh, you
know, nineteen year old Cinco, his mind would be blown right now.
This little song that he wrote, is now being performed by Dev Cameron and
Aaron Vade and the show on Apple Tea. It's crazy. And if I
can sneak in a follow up, what is it like to watch them sort
of prepare for and to embody like this love letter? You know, what's
what's the communication theretory between all of you. I mean, obviously they do
a lot of preparation on their own, but but it is really fun to
teach them the songs, you know, and see them learn the songs and
see them get excited and then they make great choices. You know. The
best choices are the ones that surprised me and it's like, oh, I
didn't think Kristen would do that, you know, but it's just like it's
so her. And that's what makes a performance unique, where they're not trying
to be somebody else. It's just naturally they do their thing and it makes
it unique. Yeah, And just to give a little bit of context for
our listeners who may become via ted Lasso and more of the sports realm and
not so much the musical theater realm, like who you're working with. Well,
I made the comment last night as we were watching with some of Marissa's
students. It's like it's like watching the ninety five Bulls. You know,
It's like it's it's like watching the twenty twelve heat you know, like you
have like they're all A listers. All these people have had defining cultural moments
on the Broadway stage, and it's just, you know, I was just
thinking and the even the folks that you've added in season two, Titus Burgess
and Patrick Page, like, holy cow, it's crazy. Yeah, the
amount of Tony's and Emmy's and Grammys they all have. And it was kind
of it was easier to get them first season because it was right in the
middle of the pandemic, nothing else was happening. We were one of the
first shows to start shooting, and so then it was always a question are
they going to come back for season two? But they were all so excited
because you know, this is their chance to really show everything they can do.
And so I think that's one of the reasons everybody came back, because
because it's like they loved the show and they love doing it. They love
each other too, Like we're all on a group text and everybody's really supportive
of each other. Whenever someone accomplishes something, there's a lot of congratulations,
so it is like a big happy family. I am dying to know.
You know, you write all these songs and they are nods and homages to
the songs that have come before or like in Pippin, And how do you
make it sound like a song we all know but still make it unique?
I mean, I just I listen to it and I think, oh,
that has to be like the hardest way to write music ever, Like how
do you do that? I don't know if it is. I mean,
it's not easy, for sure, but it is not you know, you've
got a model, right, but it is. It does take. It
takes some work because I don't want it to ever be a lazy parody,
you know, I hate those those lazy musical theater Parry's like bouncy bouncy,
and this isn't what musicals all musical sound like. So I am pretty rigorous
with myself that I play through the scores on the piano first, you know,
to really get to know them. And then if I'm targeting a song,
like I really get to know that song. And so I want to
learn the tendencies of the composers harmonically and those things, so it feels like
it's a bona fide, like oh, this is a candor an EBB song
that I've never heard before, or this is a Stephen Sondheim song that was
recently discovered. That's the goal, you know. And I don't know if
anyone will ever really mistake my song for an actual one, but the goal
is will like get close to that. But it's really fun because I mean
it comes from a place of love, right. I love these songs so
much. I didn't have to do a lot of research on like the songs
from Pippin because I know them factory before. Well, my my tenor students
were already like deciding who gets to sing Aaron debates, like, oh,
Doorway to Where that was the first song I wrote for this season, just
sort of like I knew because you know, because I'm such a Pippin fan.
It's like, oh, there will be a corner of the sky.
Yeah, And it was my dream like maybe this because it was such the
big tenor audition song for like decades, I mean it, and so it's
like, yeah, so it's like maybe this will give a I'm alta.
Oh seriously, my students were like, it's my next semester. Yeah,
the tenors are all thriving with the new material for Aaron Tobate's characters. Because
I also think you can't Tame Me is like the best, like Billy but
make it tenor like it's so good. Poor Christian is like I don't know
what we're talking about. I'm digging out. So I do have a question.
One of the amazing things about live theater is this suspense that anything can
happen at any moment, And so how does having all of those cameras there
and the ability to do things over and over again change the tension, the
process or even the consumption of what you're doing. You can answer that in
terms of schmigagoon or you know, we've seen some very prominent musical theater productions
now cinematized in the last few years, so like either way, but how
does the ability to have do overs changed the vibe? Yeah, I mean,
I will tell you, I wrote too big of a show for our
for the shooting schedule we had this season, and so it was kind of
like every day are we going to make our day today? You know,
it was like very tough, so so the reality was we didn't always have
a lot of the leisure of tons of takes. And what's also great is
like these are pros. They are used to doing eight shows a week,
and so they give you the goods on the first take almost every time.
You know, it's very rarely that we would have to do it again.
So it almost does feel a little more like live theater than it normally would.
And also I like to get as much as we can, like long
take shots for the musical numbers, see the dancers head to toe, you
know, and not have it be so much editing, although there's more of
it this season because Fosse did that a lot. You know, Bob Fosse
like choreographed for the camera, and so there are cuts that are part of
the choreography and so we wanted to emulate that as well. But it really
does feel like we're putting on a show, you know, more than we're
making a TV show some days. One of the things we love about ted
Lasso is the way that it incorporates pop culture references and meta or self referential
jokes into the dialogue, kind of by virtue of Shamiga Dune's format. You're
doing this almost constantly, but like, without spoiling anything, what were maybe
a couple of your very most favorite references that you got in. I know
you've already mentioned a couple like Corner of the Sky had to be in.
So maybe what's some that had to be left on the editing room floor that
you're a little bit still sad about. Yeah, I mean, first I'll
mention one that's a little more subtle, just for you know, I had
an idea that I wanted Cecily to wear every outfit the barber strice and had
worn and funny Girl or on a clear day you can see forever, because
I really wasn't we weren't covering those musicals otherwise, and I thought like,
oh, sess would look really cute these, you know, because it's a
very cute look. And so I'm really interested to see how many people actually
recognize these outfits because you'll see them as they pop up and it's just like,
first of all, Cecily does look adorable in them, but they're also
like very much of their period, and so that was really delightful for me
to give all those funny Girl and on a clear Day nods just by virtue
of the costumes. And then the one thing that I really wanted to get
in this season that I didn't wasn't able to was Ease On Down the Road
from The Whiz, which I love that song so much, it was on
my playlist. I sort of had an idea for like how it would work,
and we just couldn't find like in the story right in the narrative.
I just like I tried to shoehorn it in one place, but it just
didn't work. Everything so close together in Chicago, like it E's On down
the Road song would last ten seconds because it's like it's like you go around
the corner and you're you're there. So so we weren't able to do that,
and it makes me sad because that's such a fun song and also a
nod to the black musicals of this time, right like Pearley in The Whiz.
And the idea was it like Keegan and and this ensemble all African American
Osamba would do the song and then Cecily would feel like, I don't feel
like I should be a place to take part in this because she felt very
uncomfortable like seeing but they're all encouraging her, but she says, I just
don't and maybe like, yeah, exactly her feeling like oh and so um,
so that was that's my big regret that we weren't able to get that
in somehow. I really appreciate that, again being an edge of cater and
music theater, like the way that you're able to also call out things like
racism and sexism in this genre and that it's still very prevalent. We still
do all these musicals, but there's a way to be aware of that,
and so I appreciate that too, that there is you know, we're able
to make jokes, we're able to be on this other side of them and
sort of looking back and saying that was problematic, like it's not okay that
that was the challenge this season a little bit, because you know, these
musicals that we're dealing with were more forward thinking and progressive and reflecting the social
change of the sixties. But one of the ways we found they thought they
were really transgressive, you know, and so you sort of like poke fun
at that, like, oh, this none of this is shocking anymore.
And then I did really notice that like all these like male protague white boys
searching for the meaning in their life, you know, like such a narcissistic
journey, yes, getting his character when he's like you're a rich white boy,
You're gonna be fine, Like it's fine, Yeah, exactly. This
just like it's always a reflection of the people who are writing the shows,
right, and so it's like, yes, are like hero is going to
be this young guy who of course is white, who's like trying to figure
out his life. You know, it's like nobody cares. There's a lot
more gold met a joke there too with him like trying to start Doorway to
Wear like two more times and I just like gets cut off. Yeah,
this is it's not about you to hear that. They do. They do.
They can't say it enough well. And you mentioned this a bit ago
about like how sort of prevalent the candor and EBB and the fossy vibes just
are throughout this season. But you do a really good job of incorporating other
things. So you know, in season one you sort of had this illusion
of cohesion kind of with like the costuming and the set, like it all
looked very same. Same with the second season, there's a lot more variety
going on and diversity with the costuming and like even like where different parts of
Chicago are look very different. And so I'm wondering since the sort of cohesion
and the uniformity didn't show up in those technical areas this time, Like was
there sort of a guiding principle or like a theme that you all as creators
lashed onto to say, like what Ishmicago and what isn't? If that makes
sense like narratively or thematically, Yeah, I mean it was kindly. That
was something we discussed a lot, like the first week or so of the
writer's room, right, like can we get away with this? Like it's
a problem because I wanted to address all these musicals but they are scattershot,
like Robert and Hammerstein and music Man, they all that all fits together.
They all shake hands and play nice. Yeah, oh for sure, yeah,
but these do not. So But ultimately we said, like, let's
just embrace it. Our audience will make to be along for the ride and
just say like, oh, this is fun and it doesn't have to necessarily
make sense, so we can call it out like Keegan has a line at
one point like it's very unclear, like what decades you're going on? Um?
And we decided to just embrace it, and that was kind of the
rule. It was funny, but like a lot of the people in the
sets and the costumes, like they aren't used to that sort of thing,
so they're constantly saying like, but wait, what time period is. It's
like when they're asking for like cars and stuff, and I just say,
like, whatever time period we want it to be. And it was,
Yeah, it was just like hard initially. Yeah, but it's just like
we basically divided into three sections. So we have sort of the Chicago cabaret,
you know, city life, American big city, and then we've got
Victorian England right with like Oliver and Ski, and then we've got the hippies,
right, so we have God's spelled Pippin and hair, Jesus Christ superstar
in that world. And so we just just divided Shmicagan to those three burroughs.
I love it, and then decided to bounce around. And then we
thought, like the real fun is going to be when Josh and Melissa enter
this world and then the world start crossing over, right, and Sally Bowles
meets Jesus. What does that mean? And so it was that sort of
it's a little like a Marvel cinematic timelines converging. Yeah, it's the musical
theater cinematic universe. I'm here for it. So, as I mentioned,
you are the creator, writer, songwriter of Shamika Dune, but a lot
of your work is writing for writing for film, like actually writing scripts and
screenplays. And even though I didn't know it, my first exposure to your
work was when I watched the Santa Claus too. But I really came to
know your work when my kids, when we had kids and started watching things
like Horton, Here's a Who, The Lorax, Secret Life of Pets,
and all three of the Despicable Me movies, all of which all of our
kids adore. And yeah, yeah we do too. Of course, of
course they're hilarious. I was always the goal to make it not torture for
parents. Yeah, and so you do most of this with your writing partner
Ken Dario and y'all really seem to enjoy writing hilarious and warm family movies.
And I'm just wondering what draws you to create in that genre. I don't
know. I mean, we're both pretty wholesome, optimistic family guys, you
know, and I have three kids. Ken has three kids there, but
I think it came from that place. But really my intention was comedy from
the from the get go, and then we sort of got pulled into Horton
and that really changed our lives because Chris Meladandre, who ran Fox at the
time and brought us in for Horton, was really happy with us, and
he immediately left to form his own company called Illumination, and he had I
remember we had lunch with me and Kennon said, I'm forming this new company
and how would you like to write all my movies there? And we said,
yeah, that sounds great, and he pitched the idea of a villain
who has to adopt three little girls, and I said, we have to
write this. You know, this is great. And so that's that's really
how we got pulled into animation. Initially we were just writing comedies, you
know, and we were there for a long time, but ultimately, you
know, it sort of wore me out. Ken is back doing it.
He actually didn't want to be involved in in Schmigadoon much. He did.
Really, the TV world didn't interest him. It wasn't his thing. So
he's back at Illumination now working there where he's most comfortable, and I was
like, I was ready to do something a little more adult, a little
more mature, you know. I think Schmigadoon is still I don't know PG.
Eleven, PG twelve, Family. I'd say it's in that zone,
but it's just a little more grown up in this icle. Me. Your
faith is important to you. You and Ken both both grew up in the
Mormon Church, and you have made some incorporated some religious references into your work,
which is something that we also tend to see in ted Lasso. Do
you have any particularly favorite spiritual or like church, religiosity, history, Easter
eggs that you have hidden in any of your projects? Um? I mean,
I don't know if they're they're hidden, but it's all there, you
know. For me, it's all about love, right, Like That's the
older I get, the more I feel like this whole life is just make
people feel loved, you know, and that's that's how you define success.
How many people did you make feel loved? And so so there's I really
wanted to, you know, Mildred Layton, Christian's character in season one is
like bad church lady, right, you know, and you know those of
us who attend church I've all experienced that woman. I based her very closely
to someone I know, but I also really wanted her husband to be like
a good you know Fred Armison's character, like, oh, he's a good
Like I hate when just like religion or Christianity or whatever, it is just
portrayed in one way, you know, as this monolith and it's a very
negative the judgmental side, which like is you know, is there. But
I also wanted like to say, Oh, there's this sweet minister and he's
going to share something from the scriptures about love. It's going to teach Josh
something about love and how he needs to grow. And so that was like
sort of a very earnest moment but was really important to me. And there's
there's some subtle like for those who know their Bible and Christianity, Like at
the very end of our season, there's some parallels to the Garden of Eden.
I would say, um, but it's that's very subtile, but I
was aware of it, and I thought of it in that light, you
know. Um, but I think it's also like ted Lasso, you know,
has this very when you call like a Christian way of seeing that it's
like a non believing non practicing Christian or just like elevating love as as like
the ideal and forgiveness and all those sort of things that I think is why
so many people gravitate to it. You know, it's sort of this more
sort of I don't know, call it progressive Christianity, whatever you'd call it,
but just like with with Love at the center, Yeah, you could
tell that in the bones of the show, there's somebody that grew up high
Church at least one person, because yeah, yeah, there are like enough
references both in structure and in substance that like that doesn't hop in backs.
But then at the same time, you're not going to find a lot of
churches having ted Lasso watch parties, and so like maybe that is well,
that's the language, right, that's got a barrier for a lot of the
churchgoers. It would be in my church too, you know, there's like
sure, no, it's it's scary all those affords, So take a dune
where it's safer. We don't have any of those there. One of my
favorite overtu like the parable with the Sheep, Oh my gosh, if Sunday
School was like that, I mean I would still go to Sunday School.
Yeah, that was That was like Julie Klausner wrote that episode and and I
assigned it to her because I made her watch God's Spell, which she had
never seen the movie, and she hated it. She was like torture for
her, where I just I know it's very of its time, but I
find it delightful and really fun still, you know. And and I've seen
many productions of God's Spell and I enjoy them all. I love it.
But for her it was just like what is this? This is a nightmare?
So I had her right, like the worst version of a parable they
would, you know, make Keegan's character want to kill himself. We've talked
quite a bit about your songwriting and creative process for Schmigadon and Chicago. I'm
just as a fun question if you had the opportunity to score a musical or
maybe a musical number for some of the characters in ted Lasso, Like,
what style or genre or time period do you think you'd be most likely to
draw from or maybe just paint us a picture of where you'd start. Wow?
Yeah, I mean Bill Lawrence and I are Twitter friends now, you
know, and I think he knows that like, if they make Ted Lasso
into musical, I'm the one they'd better call because I would I would love
to do that. I mean, I feel like it's music Man, you
know. I think that would be the palette for the music somehow. Now
I feel like it's just like it has that earnestness and that you know,
and Ted has those small iowa those values you know, and so it feels
like it would be the music. Maybe it's like music Man enters, like
what British musical, but it wouldn't be like Phantom or any of those.
It would be like Oliver. There we go, the music Man crossed with
Oliver. That would be the heart of it, right because the team is
like all the Oliver's was like Fagins, Fagans, Little Boys. Yeah,
there we go. I know that Brett is a huge fan of the show
Scrubs also a Bill Lawrence show, and Scrubs has the very famous musical episode,
and so yeah, there's always been this deeplonging for a Ted Lasso musical
episode, which we've like seen no like heard no smoke around, so we're
not really like holding our breaths that that's going to happen. But we can
dare to dream. Yeah, yeah, I'm just putting it out there.
Yeah, I'll be great your lips to God's ears. Yeah, you have
to ask your question that you have here that you've been dying to ask.
Oh no, it's okay. No, I want you to please do it
for me, for you, yes, do it for your wife. Okay,
I'm obligeted to do this because Marris asked me too. Obviously, you
can't reveal anything. I don't even know if we have any news about a
potential season three or what's happening. Obviously, I am like hoping and praying
for one because I want this to run for as long as possible. But
um, if I were to right now just like call or suggest Leishmiz as
like the third season's name, Like, if that comes to pass, could
you just name a random character after one of us, just as a like
anage to this conversation. Suret subtle? Yeah, so be on the look
out. Okay, Season three laish Viz the lead character Brett val Brett played
by arn Oh well yeah yeah, I would actually pass away, but so
I wouldn't get to see it, but at least I could maybe see it
from the Afterlife. Yeah yeah, well, Sinko, thank you so much
for your time. This has been so much fun. Obviously, we want
everyone to go and check out Schmiga Dune season two, Akash Michago, tell
your music theater loving friends and even those who don't, because as we've seen,
even even the Josh's can learn to love Schmiga Dune. So true.
Yes, thank you so much for having me. It's been a blast great
thanks, take care all right, howe bye and that's our show. We
had a blast chatting with Sinko Paul about ted Lasso and Schmiga Dune. You
can find links to Sinko social media, the trailers for Schmiga Dune and Schicago,
as well as everything else we discussed in the show notes for this episode
on our website at ted lassopod dot com. We'll be back soon with more
ted Lasso goodness, but you can keep the conversation going with us on Twitter
and Instagram in the meantime. Our handle on both platforms is at ted Lasso
Pod. This episode of Richmond Till We Die is brought to you by Jen
and Kerosene Productions. It was produced by me Brett as well as my co
hosts Marissa and Christian. If you're enjoying the podcast, please take thirty seconds
to subscribe to our feed and give the show a five star review on Apple
Podcasts or a five star rating on Spotify. Heck, if you're feeling generous,
you could even do both. As always, we appreciate all the ways
y'all share your love and support for the pod. All right, y'all,
I'm Brett signing off for Christian, Marissa, and sinco Paul. Thanks for
listening. Until next time, Cheers y'all,