WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.279 And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is a triangle. You 2 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:07.000 know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the randallsham Pars incident. It 3 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.039 doesn't involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over 4 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:17.960 our heads classic. He's also really standing into clearing. He turned over to 5 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:20.519 my father and held his hand, and he looked in his eyes and said, 6 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:29.160 we're not alone. Welcome to Podcast UFO for our live show. During 7 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:33.119 the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room, and don't 8 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:39.479 forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello, and welcome 9 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:42.320 to the show on Martin Willish, your host. Hey, after a new 10 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:45.200 headset. We're going to see how this works. You know, I've been 11 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:50.679 trying to find something that would work better for so I don't have to keep 12 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:56.200 leaning up to the mic all the time. And I had I had doctor 13 00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:00.960 Michael masters On who had a headset that sounded great, so I ordered it. 14 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:03.879 It's here. Hopefully it'll sound as good as it does when he's using 15 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.719 it. Also, other people are using the same mic in the trade, 16 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:14.560 so we'll see how this works out. My guest tonight is doctor Bruce mcabee, 17 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:17.959 He'll be coming up in a little bit first, filling in for Alejandro 18 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:21.079 as the one and only Lee Spiegel. He'll be on in just a second. 19 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:25.519 I want to say that next week I have, as you know, 20 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:29.840 long time listeners especially, I've always figured out a way to do a show 21 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:37.120 even when traveling overseas or anywhere. But this next week it's absolutely impossible, 22 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:42.400 and I have to support my lavish lifestyle. I guess I am going to 23 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:48.519 be working at a location on an estate where there's absolutely no internet, just 24 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:52.599 barely a one or two bars signal, and I have to stay there at 25 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:55.719 the house for the entire week next week, so I'm not going to be 26 00:01:55.760 --> 00:02:00.000 available for a show. However, I already have set up a first time 27 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:06.920 YouTube is an interview back in twenty thirteen and or even earlier, I believe, 28 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.879 yeah, twenty thirteen. I have an interview setup that you will find 29 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:15.319 most enjoyable, and that's also going to be a rerun for all of the 30 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:20.599 longtime podcast listeners and supporters. The free show and the member show is all 31 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:23.360 going to be that. Speaking of members, a number of people have told 32 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:29.439 me they have had trouble that they do not want to use PayPal, and 33 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:36.080 I guess Patreon has other ways of people supporting a show, So I have 34 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:39.080 a membership now on Patreon. I already have a supporter, Thank you Chris. 35 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:45.560 He's also the one that strongly suggests that I do it, So that 36 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.479 is now available. The link is right on podcastufo dot com. If anyone 37 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.639 wants to support through Patreon, and I will. Once you support the show, 38 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:59.360 I will give you the link and the free I mean the access to 39 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:04.240 the two hour shows and a complete guide on how to set that up with 40 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:07.240 your media player. So again, where you can support the show through our 41 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:12.439 website or you drop down menu there and to support the show, or through 42 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:17.159 Patreon, and anyway, thank you all for supporting. If you can't support 43 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:22.439 the show, I still appreciate you listening. And with that, we'll start 44 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:27.800 out with our fill in news guy today, Lee Spiegel. Hey Lee, 45 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:30.599 welcome to the show. Well, hello, Martin, I'm very happy to 46 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:36.280 be your current fill in guide. Yes, thanks for filling in, but 47 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:40.639 you also I was inviting you on anyway because you have you know, you 48 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:44.960 want to talk about your new show coming up, So let's do that first. 49 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:50.319 Let's just talk about your show coming up. The time whereas someone can 50 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.919 watch it and all the info you can give us, well not are we 51 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:59.039 talking about radio or oh yeah, otherwise no, no, let's talk about 52 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:01.800 We'll talk about the part later. Yeah, okay, Well, you know, 53 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:08.560 I'm actually I'm looking very much forward to joining you and the KGRA family 54 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:14.240 when I premiere my new radio show next week. It's right around the corner, 55 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:18.120 and it's called Edge of Reality Radio, and it's kind of a kind 56 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:26.199 of a half premiere and half resurrection of my previous talk show that was called 57 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:32.720 coincidentally, Edge of Reality that it first hit the airwaves nearly forty years ago 58 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:39.639 on NBC Radio in New York. And wow, a lot has happened since 59 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:45.360 then in the whole field of UFO studies. And as you know from all 60 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:47.680 the work that you're you've done, the people you've interviewed, we're at a 61 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:56.120 point right now historically where the ridicule factor has diminished a great deal. People 62 00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:00.439 aren't as afraid of reporting strange things that they've seen in the day or night 63 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:08.319 sky. Plus the way that the meteor reports close encounters, that's evolved to 64 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:13.439 the point where it's not just kind of relegated to a news item that's saved 65 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:17.399 for the very end of the eleven o'clock news each night. That seems to 66 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:24.319 be a thing of the past. I'm happy to note that you're absolutely right 67 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:28.519 about that, and it makes uh. I think I talked about it last 68 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:33.480 week. I'm not so embarrassed to actually talk about it, and when I'm 69 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:39.399 out and about and actually doing my professional life, I'm not so worried about 70 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:43.920 it anymore. Oh. That's an interesting point because there are many people who 71 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:48.279 have other things that they do for a living and the UFO part of their 72 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:55.800 world is almost secondary, and they make many cases it should be because people 73 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:59.560 need to actually live and earn a living, But it doesn't mean that they 74 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:04.600 can't be serious investigators of something that seriously needs to be investigated. And you 75 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:09.720 know that you know much closer than those people. I know. That's right. 76 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:13.759 That's right. So let's see. They can catch it right here. 77 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:17.240 Actually, if you're listening live on KGRA A right now, you can catch 78 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:20.759 it there. And it's Thursday evenings again, what is it? Eight to 79 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:26.399 ten? Is that? Yes? Edge of Reality Radio will premiere Thursday, 80 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:31.879 August first, from eight to ten pm Eastern Time on KGRA aight, and 81 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:36.240 and just so that you and your audience knows each week won't just be about 82 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:42.000 UFOs. There's a lot of road to cover in what I like to call 83 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:46.439 the overlapping world of science and unexplained phenomena. We're going to look at things 84 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:53.199 like ghosts, the possibility of life after death, the scientific search for all 85 00:06:53.240 --> 00:07:00.839 the realities and universes, one of my favorites, time travel, straight creatures 86 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:05.399 reported from around the world, and you know, recent advances in what we 87 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:12.279 now know about human consciousness, and there's a lot going on with that kind 88 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.319 of research. So I'm I'm looking forward to just taking the listeners on an 89 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:20.360 eye opening excursion of the wonders of the world that are all around us, 90 00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:26.160 because I'll learn in the same process as the listeners will. That's why that's 91 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.399 why I do this, Martin, is because I don't know everything about all 92 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:34.480 of these things. This is a great idea. It's a great ability for 93 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:38.399 me to learn as much as I hope to bring to the audience. So 94 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.879 this is great for all of us. I think, I totally I totally 95 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:46.680 understand. Although I will say how many years have I doing this show? 96 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:51.680 Eight years? Just about eight years I know just as much as I did 97 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:57.319 in the beginning about UFOs. You know, I don't don't want to say 98 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:01.680 that I know anything more about UFOs. However, I will say that I've 99 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:03.680 heard in the eight years that I've been doing this show, I've heard some 100 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:11.120 amazing things that enough to keep me going. And it's it's actually still exciting 101 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:16.680 for me. And you know, just to listen to you know, even 102 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:22.439 if I don't agree with what someone is saying, it's still very interesting to 103 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.800 me to hear people's thoughts about the possibilities of what we may be seeing. 104 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:31.360 I think it's all fascinating. Listen, I think you're wrong. I think 105 00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:37.519 yeah, but only only on one point. I think you, Martin Willis, 106 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.000 you do know more now than you did when you first started reporting in 107 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:46.080 this And what I mean by that is to people who who say to me, 108 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:50.279 oh, I can't believe that stuff you're interested in. I'm a real 109 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:54.039 scoffer at that kind of stuff, my response to them is, how much 110 00:08:54.120 --> 00:09:00.960 personal time have you looked into this particular subject? How much time have you 111 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:07.200 either read books or watched anything else besides ancient aliens on TV? I mean, 112 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:13.759 what have you done for yourself to give yourself a valid opinion on the 113 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:18.799 subject, and in this case UFOs, and people will say, well, 114 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:20.799 I really haven't done much and yeah, I catch a couple of things on 115 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.799 TV, and I have no problem saying to people Martin, in that case, 116 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:31.840 you don't have a valid opinion on UFOs because you haven't spent the time 117 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:39.000 to create an opinion. You're just going by what you've maybe instinctively or what 118 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:43.960 you just believe inside. People want to believe in something. Everybody wants to 119 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:48.080 believe in something. But that's okay to have a personal belief in something. 120 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:54.000 But isn't it better to know that your opinion is based on what you've really 121 00:09:54.080 --> 00:10:00.159 found out on your own and that will make the water cooler conversation with you 122 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.120 much more interesting the next day. You know, I do agree with that 123 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:07.279 that part of it. Absolutely, Like, if I'm out and about and 124 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:11.240 the conversation happens to come up, I do have plenty to talk about, 125 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:15.960 that's for sure, without sure, without a doubt. And if you're just 126 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.600 listening to this show, that means that you probably know more about it in 127 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:24.720 that way that Lee is talking about than the average show. Really, I 128 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:28.200 would hope. So, yeah, I hope that that people are really interested 129 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.600 in what you present, what I present when our friend Alejando presents, um, 130 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.240 we have other colleagues who are on KGRRA who are doing the same thing. 131 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:43.720 They just want to present information that will that will kind of enlarge this 132 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:48.279 scope of the information for the listeners. That that's really what we're here for, 133 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.720 is to just help people to learn and to and to maybe be entertained 134 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:58.440 along the way, maybe be be mystified along the way. I have been 135 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:05.080 mystified by many things over the past forty years, and I loved telling people 136 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:09.799 about them, and I'm sure that you have too, Yeah, yeah, 137 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:13.600 yeah, all right, So you also want to talk about what James was 138 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:20.600 going on as far as the is it called the phenomenon? Is that the 139 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.519 name? Well, you know, a lot of new television series have emerged, 140 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:31.399 as you know, including the recent History Channel show called Unidentified Inside America's 141 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.639 UFO Investigation, and they had a lot of things there that I felt were 142 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:41.320 really well presented to the audience. You know, we now know, in 143 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:46.879 fact that there have been recent congressional meetings with military pilots about their own close 144 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:52.159 encounters with Unidentified Aircraft. So over the last couple of years, as you 145 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:58.080 know, I've been working on a new provocative UFO documentary and yes, you're 146 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.559 right, it's going to be called The Phenomenon. I've been doing this with 147 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.240 filmmaker James Fox. This will be kind of the third film in his trilogy, 148 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.720 his UFO trilogy. The first two films were Out of the Blue and 149 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:16.720 that was followed by I Know What I Saw and now we're doing The Phenomenon 150 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:22.480 and we have just in the last few days, I will say, we've 151 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.320 signed a contract with a major media distribution company and we're looking to have our 152 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:31.919 film released to the public, initially as a theatrical release, by the end 153 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.120 of the year. We're very happy about this. Wow, So it actually 154 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.399 will be out in theaters. You're talking about that. Yeah, that's my 155 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:45.919 understanding, and I've been I've been pressing James for more information and it appears 156 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.240 that part of the deal will be to see how well will it do in 157 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:54.039 theaters. And you know, I'll be honest, documentaries don't do all that 158 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:58.639 well in theaters, right, People on fucking to to buy popcorn and coke 159 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.600 to watch a documentary in a theater. So we're really hoping that this has 160 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:09.559 some far reaching out to the public so that it kind of rocks with them 161 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:15.519 and people will resonate with this. But part two, this would be well 162 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.320 beyond going to a theater, maybe to get this thing on a place like 163 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.360 Netflix or the History Channel or other places where it'll have a bigger outreach to 164 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.159 people. We just want as many people to see this because we've gathered some 165 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:35.639 great exclusive information and interviews that won't be seen in other documentaries, right right, 166 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:39.799 And you know, I got to say, I saw when Jeremy Corbell's 167 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.960 Bob Blazar film went out. It was in theaters in at least LA and 168 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:48.559 there were people waiting in line to see it. I was surprised to see, 169 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:50.240 you know, that was maybe a test theater or something like that. 170 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.919 It's now on Netflix, but and you know, listeners, of course no 171 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:03.159 my mixed feelings about Bob Blazar, but still that that was surprised at the 172 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.399 turnout. And you know for that, well, well, I'll tell you. 173 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.639 I believe it's my understanding that the distribution company that did all the promotional 174 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:18.759 for that film is the same company that's working with us now and I'm very 175 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.080 happy to hear that, because you need the right kind of promotion behind you 176 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.960 to get the public to realize that there's something playing in their local theater that 177 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:30.000 maybe you want to see. Hey, there are people in the chat room 178 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.159 that are discussing now about you know, the the previous name seven oh one. 179 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:37.240 Can you can you tell them why that name was changed on this film? 180 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.000 Well, the original title from the movie, and it goes back five 181 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:46.679 or six years ago when James started working on this documentary. It was originally 182 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:50.919 called the seven oh one and that number came from of the I believe, 183 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:56.159 of the nearly thirteen thousand UFO cases that the military, the United States Air 184 00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:01.200 Force investigated in their Project Bluebook Day. He's back in the sixties, the 185 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:07.399 fifties and the sixties of the thirteen thousand, seven hundred and one remained unidentified 186 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:13.000 or unexplained. So that was a number that has always stayed that way. 187 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:16.879 It hasn't changed at all. It's always been seven oh one. So when 188 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:22.639 this film started going through a variety of hands, and James was always with 189 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:28.159 it from the very beginning. When it finally got to his very capable creative 190 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:33.480 hands, he didn't want it to be just recognized as seven oh one, 191 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:39.039 and we came up with especially he came up with the idea for the title. 192 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.399 We had all kind of contributed what we thought could be good titles, 193 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:50.080 and the phenomenon basically came from one of the early documents in UFO history that 194 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:56.000 I'm always quoting that the General Nathan Twining documents from nineteen forty seven in which 195 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.279 he was with the Air Material Command and he wrote a very famous memo that 196 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:04.679 was classified at the time, and within the memo he wrote things like, 197 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:11.200 the phenomenon reported is something very real, not fictitious, and it's extraordinary the 198 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.759 phenomenon. And we thought, well, yeah, let's use that phrase because 199 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.919 in the beginning of our film, we're going to be leading up to where 200 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:25.240 the title comes in, and we're leading into it in a very dramatic way 201 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:29.480 that I won't give it away now, but when the title finally appears on 202 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:33.480 the screen, the phenomenon, the audience will go, oh yeah, I 203 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:40.240 get it. Well, Lee, thanks so much. And just once someone 204 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.799 was asking our number of people were asking, do you have an idea approximately 205 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:47.200 when that You're just saying, by the end of the year is that all 206 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:49.679 you know right now? Yeah, although we know as a timeline, we 207 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:55.960 believe we want this to be distributed ready for release to the public around the 208 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.679 holiday time, which means that the company is the company is going to do 209 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.359 the distribution. They need to have the final product of it from us in 210 00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:08.200 their hands about three months ahead of time so they can do everything they need 211 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.880 to begin to do the promo work for it. So if we're going to 212 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:17.400 be in theaters in December, they've got to have the film by September, 213 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:21.559 and that's around the corner. I got it. All right, Hey, 214 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.480 thanks so much. I really appreciate you feeling in. It's always great talking 215 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.519 to you, whether it's or on the phone, it's always fine. Thank 216 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:32.160 you, Martin. And have a great conversation with Bruce mccabee. He's one 217 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:36.000 of my favorite people on the planet. Excellent, all right, you take 218 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:40.200 care, all right, thank you, Okay, goodnye, guys, all 219 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:42.000 right, good night, all right, right bye bye. All right. 220 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:49.720 So my guest tonight Bruce mccabee. He hasn't been on for I think six 221 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.200 years or so, a long time, so it's really good to welcome him 222 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.960 back. He has quite a background. We're gonna be talking about that. 223 00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.079 He was involved all the way back in the Navy. When he was in 224 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:04.680 the Navy, he was researching UFOs um, you know, privately, So 225 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.960 we're gonna be talking about that and a whole lot more. Bruce, welcome 226 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.599 to the show. Thank you very much. Too badly had to go. 227 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:15.359 Oh yeah, I know he's always always a lot of fun. Um. 228 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:19.720 So I'm gonna try to boost your audio just a little bit. Um So, 229 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:23.920 Bruce, Uh, you know, since you have been on, you 230 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:30.559 know a lot has happened in UFOs in general, and I know that you 231 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.279 have done a ton of work on whether it's video or uh, you know, 232 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:41.000 photograph, um, you know analysis. Your background has a lot to 233 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.359 do with that. Can you, uh, since you've been on, I 234 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.240 have a lot of new listeners. Can you give in a nutshell your background 235 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:53.119 and we'll get right into your thoughts and what's going on today and what some 236 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:59.240 of the work you did in the past. Well, I got I'm seriously 237 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:06.559 interested interested in investigating the subject in the late nineteen sixties at the time when 238 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:11.240 the Content Report was going on, funded by the Project Blue Book and the 239 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:15.319 Air Force, and there was a period of time there where you could talk 240 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:21.079 about UFOs about having a bag over your head. But that ended in nineteen 241 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:26.519 sixty nine when the Air Force closed the Project Bluebook and everybody, including mainly 242 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:32.680 including the press sort of assume that the UFOs had been explained and there was 243 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.079 nothing to it and it was all going away. And then in nineteen seventy 244 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:42.960 three it was we're back. And the summer, late summer, a flap 245 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.920 of sighting started in the southeastern United States, and sort of the flap sort 246 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:53.200 of moved around towards the northeast somewhat, and there were a couple of settings 247 00:19:53.240 --> 00:20:00.480 that made national news, the Hixon Parker abduction and had passed the Golugle Missippi, 248 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:10.079 and Larry Point helicopter case north of Columbus, Ohio. I also made 249 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:15.200 national news, and it was unusual for ufolks sittings to make it into the 250 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:18.599 national news, and that was two that did anyway. At that point it 251 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:25.440 was clear to me that UFOs weren't going away. I had joined Nightcap in 252 00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:29.599 the late sixties, and so I was a familiar some extent with what NCAP 253 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.599 did. That got me on some of the UFO investigations. I went out 254 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:40.519 with people who had done this before, and investigated a few cases, it 255 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:45.279 was apparent that I was wasn't running up against cases being people being nuts, 256 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:51.720 are trying to hoax things, and so on. So and after the nineteen 257 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:56.960 seventy three I began doing my own my own research work, I guess you 258 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:04.039 could say, starting off bistically reanalyzing the Special Report fourteen, a Project blue 259 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:10.279 book that has been published about twenty years earlier. I spent time on that. 260 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:17.359 I tackled a photo case known as the Minville photo Casementville, Oregon, 261 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:22.079 nineteen fifty Paul Trent and his wife got two pictures of an object flying by 262 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:25.960 their farm. The image of the object is large enough and clear enough so 263 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:32.039 as either the real thing or a hoax is no halfway point. And that 264 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:37.480 was analyzed by William harmon And during the time of the Condon study in sixty 265 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:45.319 eight sixty nine, and he concluded that he couldn't prove there wasn't a fake, 266 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.960 but it seemed to him it was real. And he said all things 267 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:52.680 investigated seemed to be consistent with the idea that this extraordinary flying object had gotten 268 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:59.200 within the past them on the side of the two trends and here it was 269 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:07.599 in a multi page, hundreds of pages document devoted to all sorts of studies 270 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:15.000 of e fology from history to the history of the subject, along with the 271 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:21.079 histories of numerous sightings that they investigated and so on. And this is the 272 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:27.039 one sighting that William Hartman suggested might be real essentially, And you would think 273 00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:32.359 that the funded organization, like the funded study like this, funded by the 274 00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:36.640 government and carry out of the university, that if they came up with something 275 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:38.839 positive, everybody else would jump on it and see if they were right. 276 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:45.279 But to my greatest surprise, nobody jumped on it. So I jumped on 277 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:53.079 it and to see if if I could reproduce what Hartman claimed and also go 278 00:22:53.200 --> 00:23:00.400 beyond what he said. So over the next well, from nineteen seventy four 279 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:08.319 on about seventy seventy seven seventy eight, I did studies of the trend photos 280 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:14.519 and all the things are going on with interest of interviewing them and interviewing people 281 00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:18.799 who knew them, and doing all analysis of the theory. This is all 282 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:25.160 on a website I might give up right now. It's brumac dot my site 283 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:30.039 dot com. That is b r u m Ac dot M, I, 284 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:36.440 S, I, T E dot C, M, BROOMAC dot mysite dot 285 00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:41.880 com and you can search the site for various UH. There's other bankabytes, 286 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:49.319 I guess of analysis of zillions of sightings, ranging from the Trent Case Skylab 287 00:23:49.440 --> 00:24:02.119 three sighting UFOs by astronauts UH and UH, the nineteen eighty six nineteen eighty 288 00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:08.599 six Japan Airlines case Flight sixteen twenty eight over Alaska, the two thousand and 289 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:17.480 four Mexican Air Force sighting over the Utah Pa Pninsula. Lots of lots of 290 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:22.799 stuff. Golf briefs fits in there, other things that many many people have 291 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:27.799 never heard of. But anyway, I started doing investigations of various thing that 292 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:33.279 one of the most important ones that I did, I lucked out, you 293 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:37.519 might say, to be the person investigating the famous New Zealand sittings when they 294 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:45.880 occurred in December nineteen seventy eight, involving people on boarding airplane and two radar 295 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:53.680 engineers in the the radar of Port. Anyway, I wrote of a big 296 00:24:53.720 --> 00:25:00.759 report on that, and that sort of led me through my contact with the 297 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:07.880 CIA, which is another serious interesting story. I might mentioned it since I 298 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.079 was on with you, I guess five or six years ago, um I 299 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:18.119 published four books on the subject. The flagship book is The flagship book is 300 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:27.279 called the FBI CIA UFO Connection FBIICA UFO Connection, and that's available at amazon 301 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:34.279 As are the other ones. The Obvection in My Family is another second book. 302 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:42.839 Then Three Minutes in June, which is the most complete study of the 303 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:51.599 Kenneth Arnold case analysis of his descriptions, I'll tapped at plus Fred Johnson, 304 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:59.160 who was a who saw these objects flying overhead just after the from the can. 305 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:04.279 And then the most recent book I published called nineteen fifty two of the 306 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:10.599 Legacy of nineteen fifty two, the year of the UFO were I've been sort 307 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:18.200 of reliving on Facebook stuff on the year nineteen fifty two and most recently seventeen 308 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:25.880 years exactly to the day before the moon landing that we were celebrated last weekend. 309 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:33.319 Yeah, figh house has appeared over Washington, DC on the nineteenth and 310 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:40.200 twentieth of June. Of July nineteen fifty two, there've been a big build 311 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:45.519 up of sightings throughout the whole United States starting in April of nineteen fifty two, 312 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.240 and by July nineteen fifty two, Blue book was getting ten or twenty 313 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:56.119 or thirty sightings a day, far beyond anything they've ever had before. And 314 00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:00.079 then on Saturday, the nineteenth Saturday, the nineteenth June of July, I 315 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:08.680 mean, radar unknown unknown radar targets appeared over the Washington, DC area, 316 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.759 and there were sightings of the radiar targets of lights during the early morning hours 317 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:21.960 of July twentieth. And so things are happening seventeen years ago from today. 318 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:30.160 Yeah, the twenty sixth um next, which would be seventeen years ago next 319 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:34.920 Saturday, uh, where these objects came back against stayed around for a few 320 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:41.480 hours. They had had jets chasing them, and it made a big flap 321 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:48.319 in the press. The most important outcome of that two tree minous concentration of 322 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:55.039 sightings in the nineteen fifty two was a press conference held by General John Sandford, 323 00:27:55.480 --> 00:28:00.519 the Director of Air Force in Diligence, on Tuesday the twenty I think 324 00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:07.480 it is of July nineteen sixty two. At any rate, his press conference 325 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:12.640 lasted for over an hour, during which time he said probably the most provocative 326 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:18.400 thing he said was there were incredible people making incredible reports, or to that 327 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:25.640 effect, giving some level of credibility to what was going on. Nevertheless, 328 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:34.119 he tried to pawn off the radar detections as results of also anomalous propagation due 329 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:41.160 to temperature inversion. Yeah, and the temperature inversion effect has an effect on 330 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.240 radar beam going out. Radar beam supposed to stay up in the sky, 331 00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.079 but if there's too much of a radar too much of a temperature inversion, 332 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:51.680 the radar beam will actually be bent downwards and hits things out in the ground. 333 00:28:52.240 --> 00:29:00.480 And the only experienced radar controller I'll be able to distinguish between appear to 334 00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:07.279 be targets. Yeah, better actually reflections from ground objects and the and the 335 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.960 same distinguished between those radar targets that are not real compared to the ones that 336 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:21.480 are, and the experience radar controllers. Years week, weeks and years after 337 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:30.640 these events and General Stamford's press conference, they were absolutely confident that what they 338 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:41.119 saw real hard targets. So not no right radar effect due to the atmosphere. 339 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.720 Yeah, Bruce, that's I'm some frap. We're a little bit late 340 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.400 for our break. We're going to have to go into that, so hang 341 00:29:48.480 --> 00:30:18.240 in. Everyone will be right back. All right, Everyone welcome back. 342 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.920 We're trying to work on the audio here on Bruce's side. Hopefully it's a 343 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:26.279 little bit better. Bruce, right before we went to break, you were 344 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:33.400 talking about Um Sandford back in July nineteen fifty two talking about the radar inversions, 345 00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:37.400 and you said that people were actually saying they were hard target, hard 346 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.480 targets. You want to kind of finish that part of it. Yeah, 347 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:48.400 The rear controllers themselves testified many times over the years that these are hard targets 348 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:56.720 as far as they're concerned. Probably the main importance of the event was Channel 349 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:03.480 Sandford's press conference, where he tried to explain everything is national phenomena, and 350 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.440 as far as the radar targets were concerned, he was saying, it was 351 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:08.839 all sort of like hot air, at least as the terminology picked up by 352 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:14.319 the by the press. It was all hot air, and it's becoming It 353 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.519 became important for the sort of the policy of the Air Force took towards UFOs 354 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.440 from then on, mainly that there was nothing to it. There was no 355 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.440 threat to the United States. Forget it. Don't tell us anything we don't 356 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:32.519 want to know about UFOs and the Air Force. Nevertheless, continue to investigate 357 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:34.799 because they had sort of had to fulfill his duty to prove that there was 358 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:40.720 nothing in the sky could hurt the United States. But anyway, that was 359 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:47.920 nineteen sixty two or seventeen years ago, and were still struggling under the hot 360 00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:55.640 air UH syndrome, he might say, um, yeah, right now and 361 00:31:55.880 --> 00:32:00.319 back. A lot of people will look at the images of the Capitol Building 362 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:05.759 with the lights over it, and that actually is uh, that's actually an 363 00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:08.839 inversion of lights, isn't it up in the sky that that picture that you 364 00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:13.400 so often see it has nothing to do with UFOs, even though it was 365 00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:16.599 happening at that time. Am I right about that? Well? I can't 366 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:24.799 imagine an inversion of lights as lights on the ground scene somehow by the closest 367 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:30.799 you can get would be a mirage, and the angular shame separation between the 368 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.640 object of the mirage and the mirage imast itself has to be less than a 369 00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:43.480 degree uh to the area. So these images of lights of the cattle many 370 00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:51.440 degrees of over the horizontal. So I don't know about these pictures that I 371 00:32:51.519 --> 00:33:00.960 have been floating around the robb buying classicattle. Um, but amage, that's 372 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:06.799 for sure. Yeah, yeah, I was loosely calling it an inversion just 373 00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.279 because I didn't know what to call it. Um, you know, it's 374 00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:14.400 not you know, it's not like a lens flare or anything like that. 375 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:20.319 But it was you know those pictures of that people see online if you search 376 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:23.640 for nineteen fifty two, you know, UFOs over Washington, that's what you'll 377 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.880 come up within. It basically lines up with the street lights perfectly up in 378 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.920 the sky. However that was done. I have no idea, but um, 379 00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:37.759 those aren't. That's a single picture you're talking about, Yes, yeah, 380 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:43.039 yeah, I'm talking about a movie, a movie of lights moving past 381 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:47.200 the Forster right, moving past the Capital. Oh okay, I think I've 382 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:54.160 seen that as well. Well wow, yeah, but that was really the 383 00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:59.720 picture here, the picture you're talking about, taking from the sort of rear 384 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:05.319 the Capitol building looking towards the Capitol and seen lights up in the stop in 385 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:09.599 the sky and very bright lights are greatly over exposed at ground level. Those 386 00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:15.280 are known as as flares lens slayers, where they get a reflection in the 387 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:21.679 optics with the camera reflection that takes some light from an actual light, so 388 00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:25.960 it's extremely bright and reflects it over to some angle away from the center of 389 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:31.519 the photo, making a dimmer image which is usually not seen. What can 390 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:37.559 be seen if there's a dark background, then the flare can be seen on 391 00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:42.199 superimposed out of the background. But anyway, the picture you're talking about I'm 392 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:45.599 familiar with, and as I said, that's a result of lens slayers causing 393 00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:51.159 reflection images that appear in the sky but are not actually in the sky, 394 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:55.199 right right, So actually I had it when I said it wasn't lens flares, 395 00:34:55.400 --> 00:35:00.280 I was wrong. It actually is lens flares. But yeah, we're 396 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:04.440 both talking about the same picture, which is which is interesting. But fifty 397 00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:07.159 two was really, um, you know, a year where uh there was 398 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:12.159 a crazy amount of sightings. Um, you know, to the point where 399 00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:16.679 you know it did bring that uh uh you know, it did did change 400 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:21.400 a lot of things as far as people taking a hard look at it. 401 00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.239 And uh, you know, same FBI file, the FBI file which I 402 00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:31.119 got nineteen seventy seven and which is so summarized in the book The FBI CIA. 403 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.960 The FBI file has some documents and the fall of nineteen well, one 404 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:45.079 document on the same day as Cinel Sanford's UM press conference UH, the FBI 405 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:53.719 Asian went to the Office of Air Force Intelligence UH and UH the interview find 406 00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:58.440 out what was going on with all these sightings, and the Asian was told 407 00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:01.960 a couple of percent five pc out of the sightings could not be explained and 408 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:07.840 that some top level Air Force people were seriously considering interplanetary ships to use a 409 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:15.039 phraseology that's in the document. So that was pretty interesting. And also in 410 00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:19.119 nineteen fifty two there were so many sightings the CIA got involved, and that 411 00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:28.800 was that summarized also in my book. Those were a lot of sightings and 412 00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:35.039 things that happened in the fifties. The last part of the book discusses my 413 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:40.320 direct interactions with the CIA, which began in nineteen seventy nine when I was 414 00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:46.920 looking for some help and analyzing the radar detections in the New Zealand sightings of 415 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:52.920 December seventy eight, and I went it was it was suggested by a person 416 00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:57.440 I knew that I could go to the CIA maybe and get some help on 417 00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:05.039 radar, and so I went there and I explained to about half a dozen 418 00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:09.320 gentlemen who sat there listening what I knew about the those Eveland sightings, and 419 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.599 later on, I oh, I guess I visited the CIA two or three 420 00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:21.679 times and I need seventy nine. Got some information, but it really didn't 421 00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:27.719 make much make much of an impression on me, and I never expected to 422 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.960 go back there again. But just so. Half of the five years later, 423 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.559 I got a phone call from a CIA guy who was interested in the 424 00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:39.000 Navy work I was doing. All his UFO stuff was independent of the Navy. 425 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:44.239 Of course, the Navy work I was doing at that time was generating 426 00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:50.000 underwater sound using high power lasers. High polaser beam is sapping the water to 427 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:58.239 create sound, and this CIA agent had been studying comparable paper papers out of 428 00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:01.480 the Soviet Union. He wanted to know whether we were keeping up with the 429 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:08.400 Russians or not, and so he contacted me and I went there. Well. 430 00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:13.079 On the first phone call he asked me if I could do it. 431 00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:15.800 I said, you are happy to give a description of what we're doing, 432 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:22.159 and a few hours later he called it up with details on when I should 433 00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:28.920 be there and all that, and hey. He then after, after talking 434 00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:30.280 of the business, he then says, I understand you've been here before, 435 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:35.199 and my job nearly hit the floor because I had not intended to say anything 436 00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:42.199 about being at the CIA to discuss UFOs. So my cover had been blown, 437 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:46.639 you might say. For the next ten years or so, I had 438 00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:53.400 considerable interaction with this guy on the on the UFO subject. At the same 439 00:38:53.440 --> 00:39:01.519 time we were talking about laser generated underwater sound. Uh did was there? 440 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:08.039 There was someone that contacted me one time that thought that you may have actually 441 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:16.480 worked for the CIA involving UFOs. Uh in some like private capacity. Um 442 00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:22.960 was that just? Is that just a rumor? Uh? Well, I 443 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:29.800 didn't work for the CIA in the implication of getting paid or something like that. 444 00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:37.760 I shared with them some information that I got this this guy who was 445 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:43.400 apparently interested in the subject himself. Like virtually every in defense situation or whatever 446 00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:46.239 I went to over the years that I was with the Navy, there were 447 00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:52.679 people who were interested in this subject and they were talking talking about it and 448 00:39:52.840 --> 00:40:00.760 whispering tones. Yeah, nobody, nobody was over the interested, you might 449 00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:02.719 say. But you would find out that there would be a little group of 450 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:07.280 people who would get together away and that happened just about every defensive solation that 451 00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:12.599 I was at. Bruce. Someone wanted to know what the laser sound was 452 00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:20.000 actually for. We were investigating this for a number of things, but one 453 00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:24.639 of the big east was anti anti submarine warfare ASW, where you could use 454 00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:30.440 the laser beam from an airplane beaming down onto the surface of the water, 455 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:34.880 generate sound of the surface of the water that goes down into the water and 456 00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:39.000 those down where some submarine with a sensitive hydrophone can be listening, and you 457 00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:47.159 could send a signal from the airplane directly to the submarine by using this interface 458 00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:52.559 method of creating generating a series of pulses of laser pulses on the surface that 459 00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:59.000 generated a series of acoustic pulses in a body of water underneath the surface. 460 00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:07.079 And there were also potential potentiality for using for searching out for minds and other 461 00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:10.599 things like that. But that was the that was the main driver, was 462 00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:16.719 the ASW situation, and that was the interest also the CIA, because they 463 00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:21.960 could see the Soviets doing the same sort of work we were doing, measuring 464 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:24.960 how far you could transmit a pulse in the water if you created with a 465 00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:31.719 laser beam. Interesting, wow, and is this something that actually was used 466 00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:37.159 or is used in any type of way currently At the time we were investigating 467 00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:45.440 this, the Navy was looking for a way to signal submarines anyone under the 468 00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:52.880 surface whenever when they had done something capital and uh, we knew that they 469 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:58.199 were working on a project called Sanguine. They had to do with sending low 470 00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:07.440 frequency like i'm agnetic signals out the contact submarines. And there was so minor 471 00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:13.320 say between what we were doing and what they were doing with the electromagnetic the 472 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:17.480 project saying when methods finally ended up working and so they didn't need to worry 473 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:27.239 about generating sound with the from above with an airplane. U. So now 474 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:30.599 I got used. You might say, wow, well that's that's really interesting. 475 00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:37.280 So um, you know, um, since the last time we've talked, 476 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:43.119 actually, there's so much more technology out there today. UM, not 477 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:46.280 really, I'm not really talking about anything to do with photo or video, 478 00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:52.880 but all but uh in detection. As you may, I'm sure you keep 479 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:54.760 up on that stuff. For instance, the Navy, what the Navy has, 480 00:42:55.280 --> 00:43:00.559 and why the Navy is actually seeing a lot more uman I've ever seen 481 00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:05.800 before in the skies because of the different you know, the different equipment that 482 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:09.000 they have that and who knows what the future is going to bring as far 483 00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:14.559 as technology goes, have you been keeping up on that? One of the 484 00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:21.320 key things in this recent revelation about the Nimits events in two thousand and four 485 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:27.599 November of two thousand and four, Kevin Day, the guy who was the 486 00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:36.159 radar operator, I was telling me about tracking these objects. And they had 487 00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:42.920 the spy radar, which is a multi beam radar even tracks all different things 488 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:46.920 at the same time at high speed if you want. What he told me 489 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:52.800 could not have been determined let's say ten or twenty years earlier, before spire 490 00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:59.199 radar was available. I forget what the first the first ship with the spire 491 00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:07.239 radar, the Princeton, I believe sometime and uh, the late nineties. 492 00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:14.440 I guess it was, oh when I first had the first the first ship 493 00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:19.400 but Tykeer on the road, tyke Onto rogasticks in my mind, But that 494 00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.920 might not be it. At any rate, it was it was well proven 495 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:29.039 by the time it was being used by Kevin Day on the on the Princeton. 496 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:36.000 Using the spy rayar, he was able to measure these obvious were traveling 497 00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:40.960 at twenty eight thousand feet altitude going one hundred knots, which is which is 498 00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:47.320 a crash velocity of feet. The air is so thin up there that you've 499 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:52.800 got to go at high speed in order to be able to get left alane 500 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:58.039 up, shoving air down. Shoving air down to high speed holds a plane 501 00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:00.800 up if you're not going fast enough, Shoving off air down to the hold 502 00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:07.880 the play up. But these things were going along calmly, and when some 503 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:14.760 F eighteen jets approached, they started dropping downwards, and he said they had 504 00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:17.320 dropped down to the surface of the earth the ocean about fifty feet, and 505 00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:24.400 he estimated point seven eight seconds, about eight tenths of a second, they 506 00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:30.599 would drop from twenty eight thousand feet to fifty feet. That's a considerable distance 507 00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:37.440 to travel in less than a second, four tenth of a second. I 508 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:43.320 calculated if this were Newtonian mechanics, where we were talking about it, and 509 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:50.519 some object was pushing me, pushing one of these things downwards to go halfway, 510 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:55.920 accelerating halfway to get as far as quickly as you came to the halfway 511 00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:01.760 point, and then decelerating from the halfway point to the endpoint. And if 512 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:08.960 you calculate like this, you come up with some thousand geese or something like 513 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:15.199 that of acceleration necessary to cover that distance and from twenty thousand feet down to 514 00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:22.800 zero feet and covering fifty feet I should say, covering that distance in less 515 00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:29.960 than eight tenths of a second. It requires thousand a couple of thousand g's 516 00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:32.480 to get up to the speed that you're reaching when you're in the halfway point, 517 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:37.000 and then you slam on the brakes, I really mean slam on the 518 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:42.079 brakes, reverse your reverse, your thrust or whatever, and slow down so 519 00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:46.960 that you stop fifty feet above the water. You can think of other ways 520 00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.800 of getting from point A to point B, A lot of different ways of 521 00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:54.440 getting from from point A to point B. But the halfway the halfway mark, 522 00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:00.840 accelerate to the halfway point, then decelerate to the endpoint. As a 523 00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:05.320 gives you an estimate of what sort of acceleration you have to have and it's 524 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:08.480 huge. So yeah, they were able to do these opects were able to 525 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:10.760 do that, and then they sort of meandered back up to the top. 526 00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:16.079 That's eight thousand feet again. Anyway, we were talking about the capability of 527 00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:20.719 the instruments to detect that, and you wouldn't have been able to see that 528 00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:23.360 with the ordinary radars they had in the old days where you know, a 529 00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:30.320 single beam is rotating around. Yeah, you're and you're seeing blips appear on 530 00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:35.320 the radar screen. Every type of the beam goes around. M Well, 531 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:39.599 with a spire ratar, you can lock a beam, mom, And that's 532 00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:45.159 my understanding. You can lock on a beam and just let the track whatever 533 00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:52.480 you're you lock it onto. That's right now. Another you know, another 534 00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:57.440 point in in that in particular is if you if you had any type of 535 00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:02.239 craft that could travel those speeds, Um, you know, it would completely 536 00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:07.239 fall apart, um, just with a thousand Jesus just not even never mind 537 00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:13.760 being being inside of it, um, just the craft itself. I would 538 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:17.920 think it would shatter with that with that force. Um. I mean, 539 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:22.440 I don't know, I don't know. I'm just it just seems logical that 540 00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:25.159 it would. Well, it was one of the things which occurred to know 541 00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:30.880 and Kenneth Harnold when he thought about his saying back in June twenty four, 542 00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:38.559 ninety forty seven. He observed these objects and they're very jerky motions as they 543 00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:44.679 traveled along as he compared with a saucer skipping out on the water. And 544 00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:49.360 that's where the serm flying Saucer came from. If you go back you read 545 00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:55.920 my book three Minutes in June and you see you see the complete story of 546 00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:05.159 Kenneth Hanold and deep analysis of his of his sighting. But he as one 547 00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:09.880 of his first thoughts was these things were so jerky that they would h going 548 00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:15.159 at such a high speed and changing directions that they would turn a human being 549 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:22.039 into a mush very quickly. Yeah, So that's that's sort of the thing 550 00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:35.840 that these new recent admissions by the the TTSA people, lou Alesando and song 551 00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:43.039 Um that these objects have very jerky motion. David Fraber, who was the 552 00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:47.159 one of the f eighteen pilots to see the thing called tick tack. So 553 00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:52.719 it was traveling along in a bossing way like ping pong ball bomasing off the 554 00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:59.360 wall, where you have a very sudden change in direction and you go along 555 00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:05.400 easy, some some velocity and sudding a change direction to some other direction, 556 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:12.360 and the change in direction with requires an extreme extreme acceleration to do that, 557 00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:17.039 so enough to turn a human being into a jelly. That was already way 558 00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:24.280 way back and ninety forty seven. The first part of this podcast, wet 559 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:32.159 Spiegel talked about channel. Nathan Twining's letter talked about the phenomenon as being a 560 00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:37.639 real and not fictitious or imaginary, and already by that time when he wrote 561 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:45.159 that letter in September of nineteen forty seven, they knew that these objects had 562 00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:49.840 very strange characteristics, such as being able to suddenly appear as if dropping down 563 00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:53.280 from a high altitude, so someding to be able to disappear almost like disintegration 564 00:50:54.440 --> 00:51:02.280 as they took off, picking capability of high speed, and no recognizable features 565 00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:07.880 indicate it was like an airplane at all. That's all all that stuff that 566 00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:17.199 has been emphasized as characteristics and recent discussions by the CCSA people. That was 567 00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:21.719 all own back in nineteen forty seven. Yeah, so I asked, I 568 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.199 asked the question, why don't we learned last seventy two years. One of 569 00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:28.800 the things we're just about ready to go in to break here in just a 570 00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:34.639 minute. But one of the things up I have argued more or less when 571 00:51:34.679 --> 00:51:37.199 it comes to people saying, oh, this is just you know, new 572 00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:40.320 technology, could be China, could be Russia, et cetera, et cetera, 573 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.800 et cetera, I will bring up the subject, well, what about 574 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:52.079 people saying the exact same things or exact capabilities you know, fifty years ago. 575 00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:54.760 How would you explain that, Because if something was out for fifty years, 576 00:51:55.119 --> 00:52:00.239 we certainly would know about it by now, you would think. But 577 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:05.360 I think we're just about ready to go into break here, so we might 578 00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:08.119 as well go ahead and do that. This is Martin Willis. My guest 579 00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:14.119 tonight is doctor Bruce mcabee, and we'll be right back. Thank you so 580 00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:16.679 much for listening to the show. Remember there's a new way to support the 581 00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:22.280 show, especially if you're not a fan of PayPal, not through our subscription 582 00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:25.800 site, well you can do that, but also through Patreon. That link 583 00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:30.920 is right on our website podcast ufo dot com. We also have a blog 584 00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:37.760 over there too. You can check that out and it absolutely goes along with 585 00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:43.199 today's show. It has to do with good old fashion UFO photo analysis and 586 00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:47.360 that's by Charles Lear. Check that out. So we'll be back next week, 587 00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:51.400 but it will not be a live show. It will be a repeat 588 00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:57.760 of back into twenty thirteen and then we'll be back live as usual after that. 589 00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:00.079 Thanks so much, and remember to keep your rise to the sky