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Well, whiskey coming, fake,
my Paine, my brain, Oh Whiskey,

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don't let me go. From Powerline
blog dot com and produced by Wickachet

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dot com. This is the Three
Whiskey Happy Hour with your bartenders Steve Hayward,

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John You and Powerlines International Woman of
Mystery Lucresia's gotta give it and let

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that whiskey blow. Where you've been
in love down and low? Well,

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Well, hi everybody, and welcome
to a special unorthodox edition of the Three

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Whiskey Happy Hour. Because John You
is absent this week. He's over in

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Korea, or he may even be
flying home right now. I forget.

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We weren't able to schedule it when
John could join us, and so Lucretia

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and I are going almost solo except
here. In a few minutes, we're

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going to bring on Glad Elmer's to
talk about his terrific brand new book in

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the Narrow Passage. Proper introduction in
due course. But Lucretia, I am

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in a boutique hotel in Hollywood for
a couple of days, and I feel

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like I've walked onto the set of
Barton Fink. If you ever knew that

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old Cone Brothers movie about the guy
riding a wrestling picture, but I don't

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know if you ever saw it anyway, how are you? How are you?

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Steve? Pretty good? One thing
about this hotel, I'm just going

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to mention it's got the same window
coverings as your sheek little Berkeley get.

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Yeah, I know, but that's
because the sun's right behind me and this

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is the only person. It's fine, it's fine. But the mini bar

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does have Glenn live at twelve,
so you know, I'm actually doesn't look

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very mini. Well, this is
a half bottle, but that's actually for

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many. It's the biggest mini bar
I've ever seen anyway, So so so

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we could accommodate our our friend Glenn. Um and I've already been working nine

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hours today. I needed coffee,
so I decided to make my you know

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me, I drink. I drink
soda, water, wine and Scotch and

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black coffee. That's it exactly.
Every now and then I break out and

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I have an Irish coffee with bush
mills and whipped cream and espresso in it.

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And that's what I have here.
That's a good way, that's a

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good substitute for the three whiskey happy
hour. Well it is whiskey. It's

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right, it's right, it's just
Irish whiskey rum. You know, there

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you go, all right, At
the risk of getting a eleven scoring rant

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on a scale of one to ten, I have to ask you which is

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the biggest farce of the week.
Was it the Secret Service investigation as the

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Mysterious Origins of cocaine and the White
House? Or was it FBI Director Ray

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in front of the House Committee explaining
that, oh, we're all just all

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patriots of the FBI who love all
Americans. By the way, our numbers

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of recruits in Texas are up,
they're astronomically high, Ray says, because

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that's just proof of how popular we
are in places like Texas. As he

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was talking to a Texas senator,
you know, when the senator tried to

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claim that, I forget what liberal
publication might have been The Washington Post said

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that the FBI is at the lowest
approval in the history of the universe.

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They're lower than um pond scum,
I think is what he said. I

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forget, But anyway, I don't
know Steve, the idea that the idea

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that Ray can get up there and
say that the idea that the secret service

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can get up and say, well, we've we've closed out this investigation without

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finding anything. You've been in the
White House, Steve, you could not

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leave a gum wrapper on the floor
without it being recorded, you. I

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mean, the idea that they do
not know who left this cocaine in there

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is so ludicrous, and they just
think that, you know, this will

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go away because them it's not a
sexy enough story for the media to keep

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going on. Mob Head has already
said, you know, the story's over

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as far as she's concerned, and
they're gonna get away with it. Now.

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The way, I might not be
quite as easy for them to get

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away with it because people have figured
out that the FBI is corrupts and has

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become the praetorian guard for the Biden
administration. Yeah. So, by the

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way, the White House spokesperson you
referred to as mop Head I saw.

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I don't know if you watch The
Simpsons, but somebody said she looks like

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Sideshow Bob, which I think is
pretty good too. Is well, you're

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not a Simpsons fan, but listeners
who know Sideshow Bob from the Simpsons will.

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By the way, I always voiced
by what's his name? The guy

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who played Frasier Crane, who's a
conservative. Oh, I'm blanking on the

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grammar, Kelsey Grammar. That's right. Who is as a today? I

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think on strike as the actors are
on strike in Hollywood anyway. Uh,

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what anybody knows in our strike?
Yeah, I'm right. Well, I

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mean, I mean maybe people will. I won't because I don't have television

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anymore. So yeah, but um, and you know, quite frankly,

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I have a hard time watching a
new movie. It's I may try to

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go see Freedom, um, Sound
of Freedom. Not because I don't want

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to see it, but I definitely
want to support them. I'm too weak

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when it comes to that sort of
thing. I don't want to know about

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children being trafficked and so on,
but I want to support them. I

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definitely want to support James with it, Jim how do you say his last

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name? I'd like everything I've seen
him in and he's just a good guy.

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So I might buy the go to
the theater, buy ten tickets and

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hand them out. Yeah that's right. Yeah, because i'd have nightmares for

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six months. Well you know the
story there and can This is one of

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those kind of scandalous aspects of things
as that movie was made five years ago,

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and apparently Disney had the rights to
it and put it on a shelf

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and didn't want to release it.
And I'm not quite I don't know the

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whole story, and I haven't had
time to check it out, but somebody

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prided loose or quite often a movie
rights expired, you'll have movie rights for

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four or five years. Harvey Weinstein
was famous for buying up films, paying

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a lot for them, and then
putting him on a shelf because he thought

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they were competition for the films he
really wanted to promote and win awards with.

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And I mean, I've known a
couple of filmmakers who said they got

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really nice offers from Harvey Weinstein and
turned them down and took less money from

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another distributor because they knew that they
couldn't count on Weinstein to release the movie.

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Something like that happened with this movie, apparently, and now it's a

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big hit and bigger than any Well, that's right, And you know,

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one might ask why didn't they want
to release this movie. I mean,

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I would be open to listening to
the argument that they didn't know how to

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market it, because opening to listen
to whatever live going to tell? Well,

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then I would be suspicious that there
are other motives in play that would

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you would? I really do.
So there you are in California, Steve,

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give me the story about why it
is they killed a bill that made

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sex trafficking a felony. I don't
even get it's what's that all about?

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Can you even explain it? No? I cannot. I mean except that

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it's a manifestation of the extreme liberationist
ethic. I guess you put it that

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way of the left, which is
they can think of no rational reason or

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authoritative reason to put any barriers in
front of any perversity someone declares as their

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personal right or their personal desire.
And I have a hard time believing this,

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but I think that may actually be
the explanation. You remember, I

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don't want to bring it up again. But the same the same monster excuse

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for human being professor who says,
yeah, of course we can force children

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to have sex with us happen on
want because we forced him to do things

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all the time. The idea that
any human being could actually utter those words,

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I think those words in his brain, never mind utter them out loud.

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I mean, he should have been
shot on site, in my opinion

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shot on site. And maybe I'm
sounding like one of those new young wright

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people we're going to talk about with
Glenn. I hope. Yeah. But

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but yeah, I did the what
remember I told you also that I used

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to in my previous Twitter life.
I followed the US Marshals. What a

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weird thing to follow, except that
they were they they had the most successful

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task force running down child and and
and adult sex trafficking. Yeah, and

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they would publish on Twitter, you
know we uh, we rescued eighty nine

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children and we arrested one hundred and
twenty two sex traffickers today in such and

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such small town in the Midwest.
And you know it would I would would

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pass it on and it would I
can't say quite that it would make me

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happy, but it wouldn't, you
know, because it's not really something to

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be happy about, but the fact. And then Biden the day the day

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he got into office, shut down
the task force. Yeah, you do

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wonder about that. Wrap your head
around it, Steve, Yeah, you're

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right, I get it. When
you say you don't get it, you

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try to explain it in some rational, theoretical way. It just there's no

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explanation for it. Your explanation is
the best I've ever heard. Yeah,

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but all right, why don't we
try. I'm gonna I'm gonna tempt Yeah,

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well, happier subject example, but
you'll still find a way to disagree

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with me or controverted. I didn't
disagree with you. I agree with you.

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Oh, I know. Well,
all right. My thesis is,

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I mean, we've said this a
little bit, but I think the judicial

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revolution that's under way at the moment
is even bigger than just what we saw

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in the Harvard UNC case and some
of the other major questions doctrine a year

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ago. Uh, you know,
because I mean John has been talking about

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how gosh, we have the most
favorable judiciary in seventy five years or conservatives,

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I think that, Well, I'll
get right to it. We had

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another case this week out of the
DC Circuit. It's very technical, it's

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very dense and difficult to get through. But the bottom line is is the

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DC circuits set the Department of Energy
about a rule involving commercial boilers. Oh

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boy, there's a hot subject to
keep you awake at night. And the

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Department's been working on an efficiency standard
for boilers. At what up end the

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whole industry for six years, and
they're at the final rule making stage and

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the DC Circuit said, nope,
sorry, we're throwing out your rule.

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And this is the first time I
can think of a major rule has been

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thrown out this late in the process. Now, maybe I've missed one or

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two. The main Lobster case was
different, a little different stage of the

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thing. I think, yeah,
well, I think they are equivalent in

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their broader meaning. So yes,
there's that case. Also that about two

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three weeks ago. What they do
have in common is this, It used

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to be said, and this was
the argument for deference to administrative expertise,

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is gosh, you know, you
can't expect judges to master all the technical

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details of these rules. You should
just trust us, the experts, and

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you should just deem as factual the
claims that we make in our rulemaking process.

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And these last two cases, and
especially the one this week, the

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court said nope, sorry, we
are not buying it now. It was

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helpful that the industry had challenged a
lot of the convenient assumptions of the Department

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of Energy, a lot of shoddy
methodology, and the Appeals Court said,

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boy, you didn't give every any
convincing answers to these objections, and so

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they killed this rule. And now
I think this reminds me of a previous

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change in legal procedure from forty fifty
years ago now, and it was the

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antitrust revolution. This is probably bores
you, but I was. My economist

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side of me was always interested in
this for decades, from you know,

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the New Deal into the seventies.
The judiciary was completely incoherent about antitrust and

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you'd read these decisions and you couldn't
figure out what the heck was going on

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and how they could say this merger
is good, another one is bad,

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and why this company had to be
broken up and so forth. And you

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had the real intellectual revolution, led
by people that included Robert Bourke, saying

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this is in irrational, incoherent,
and here's a better standard, which was

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consumer harm. You know, is
this company harming consumers? Is it anti

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competitive with this merger hurt consumers?
If the answer to those questions is no,

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then let the marketplace decide. And
by the late eighties, the Reagan

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administration, which still brought some antitrust
cases, started losing those cases in court.

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The government, the Justice Department always
won those cases for thirty forty years

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and they suddenly started losing. I
think we're now seeing same turn on these

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regulatory administrative date cases. I think
we are seeing that the agencies are now

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going to start losing in court a
whole lot more. And this just makes

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my day. It makes me hap
the only I'm going to be contrary,

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not because they disagree, but let
me throw this out at you. It's

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one thing to be because I want
to separate the two. And I want

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to separate the two, the antitrust
from the other case, because how is

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it possible now that what we've discovered
is the call it the wokeness, the

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the affinity between corporations and the left, that there is not at some fundamental

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level a belief that we don't have
to worry about say them, I know,

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as a bide administration about the case, but that we don't have to

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worry about collusive you know, lack
of free market stuff with antitrust violations,

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because of course the corporations are as
we know, are absolutely in bed with

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the government now. And I I'm
just wondering if your theory is comprehensive across

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all of these kinds of issues or
if you perhaps see that there might be

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a difference between looking at a regulatory
agency and saying, you, guys,

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what you know everything they say,
versus not going along with antitrust. Yeah,

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so no, that's right. I
mean, I've had several commenters say,

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yeah, the court ruled this week
that the Biden administration can't block Microsoft

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buying Activision, And I don't care
about video games, so I don't care

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much about this. But people say, we want these tech companies to keep

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getting bigger and controlling more of these
domains. Maybe not in the case of

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just social media. Let's limit it
to that. I think some of the

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older antitrust doctrines we control antitrust out
completely and say anything goes. But I

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think maybe the older doctrines of a
common carrier, which we apply to public

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utilities and be consumer harm, may
still be effective and a principal legal levers

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against what's going on. And a
lot of people thinking about this, and

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and so part of the reason when
I say that about video games is you're

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going to that, believe it or
not, the video game world is as

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woke in most cases as is say
a universe, the university atmosphere, the

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academic world, and so the I'm
not going to say this was a collusive

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lawsuit between the Biden administration and but
I am. My thought was I was

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conflicted about the decision. Let me
put it that way, because on the

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one hand, I don't want to
see Microsoft become any bigger or have any

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more any larger share market share in
the video game industry because they're already despicable,

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and the video game industry is absolutely
despicable when it comes to and God

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only knows the kind of influence they
have on young people. But I mean,

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you know, they're they have every
woke policy that you'd find at the

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student union in Stanford University. To
get honest with you, anyway, it

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gets confusing to me, is the
problem. I don't know enough about anti

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trust to say anything really important or
insightful on it, or intelligent for that

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matter. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know. I guess it's really

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huge business because it seems to me
that Microsoft is overpaying. Like I say,

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I don't know that business and if
that's true or not. But beyond

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that, I did have a student
one time try and convince me, a

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pretty pretty bright guy that grand theft
auto is actually a game, which I've

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always you know, just what I
hear about I don't like but finds violence.

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Yeah, there's some conservative aspects to
it, and I was skeptical,

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but well I don't think it was
that one. But there I know of

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other games that you know, wore
games, those sorts of things where mortal

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well there's all si I mean,
call it duty. But the pressure on

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them to you know, have the
transgender Act in leading it, you know,

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the troops and just I'm just making
that up, but the pressure on

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them to become much more woke and
in fact, the monitoring call it that

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and censoring that goes on on the
live gamers is actually downright scary. I'm

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surprised that's not more of an issue, to be honest with you. Yeah,

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well, collecting all of the time
on live gamers and the things they

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say, well, some other time
we should have a learned discussion of the

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Platonic Socratic case for censorship of music
and poetry, which applied to video games.

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But at this point, let's take
a quick break for our sponsors and

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then we'll come back with Glenn Elmer's. Glenn Elmers joins us now to talk

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about his brand new book published just
this week our friends add Encounter Books,

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the Narrow Passage subtitle Plato Fuco and
the Possibility of Political Philosophy. And first

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of all, and congratulations not just
unpublishing a book. I mean, that's

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easy to say, but you've done
something I think quite remarkable here. You've

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got a serious, in depth argument
about where we are in a modern world

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day and what's going wrong in seventy
nine pages. And uh and and although

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some of the ideas are I guess
I don't. I don't want to mislead

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listeners by saying dense and difficult to
dissuade them. Just the opposite. The

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writing is very clear and crisp and
direct and difficult. It is probably what

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you want to say. And what
then does is make them accessible. Yeah,

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exactly. So let's start this way, by the way, thank you,

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Yeah, good to be here.
Good. Yeah. Let me draw

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into it with a couple of we'll
start on the surface, as teachers of

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ours like to say. Right,
I was having a conversation recently with someone

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of my age, a baby boomer, right, who of some prominence,

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A name you don't know, but
I won't say who it is because it's

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not important who said I think we've
reached peak woke, and I'm thinking to

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myself, you can point to places
where they've lost some skirmishes, but I'm

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doubtful about that, and I think
for reasons that you get at. And

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so that's why one of the things
that you lay out that I think is

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the most easily accessible argument for non
specialists or even specialists, is you make

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Actually Fred Siegel's been saying this for
years, and you say a more philosophical

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way, the nineteen sixties never ended. That's the way Fred and I put

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it. You put it a little
differently. What you say is we had

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a halftime from the culture War.
In other words, we thought the sixties

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and all the predations there were over, but they actually came back. The

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vocabulary today baby a little different,
but it's the same thing. And we

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were misled by I guess, support
the Reagan years when we've turned all these

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things back. But now it's back. And why that's important is both a

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the subject matter and the generational split
this cost you say in your book,

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and I totally agree. The baby
boomers and my age and Lucrease's a too

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many of us are complacent about this
saying this too, shell pass like it

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did before. Don't know would put
me in your pocket with that one mystery.

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I have never ever joined that opinion. But no, no, I

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know I haven't either. I'm just
saying you're always the one saying, oh

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oh yeah, this happened before.
It'll be fine. No, well,

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we'll come back to what Jaffa thought
about this on the last page of Glenn's

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book in due course. If you
let us thinks about it, well that

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too anyways, see him going with
that. Glan is taken from there about.

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I guess this inspired the book,
right is the younger generation of saying,

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I don't know why you guys are
optimistic because they've seen nothing but rack

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and ruin, whereas we did see
a certain recovery of a certain kind.

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Right, well, I think a
big thing is having lived through the Cold

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War and having seen the victory over
the Soviet Union and the dissolution, the

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dissolution of the evil Empire. People
who didn't live through it don't appreciate what

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a massive fact that was, and
what a massive thing it was that we

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won, you know. Reagan famously
said his approach contrary to his predecessor,

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Jimmy Carter was we when they lose, and that turned out to be the

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case. Now, you know,
this points again to something Leo Strauss said,

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and Jaffa brought this up, and
Steve, you'd like to quote this

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line from Jaffa that the defeat of
the Soviet Union did not mean the defeat

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of the ideology. And Strauss said
this about the Nazis and German philosophy,

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right, that we defeated German ideas, that we defeated the Vermacht, but

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we didn't defeat the German ideology,
the philosophy. And you could say the

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same thing at the end of the
Cold War. We defeated the Sivie Union,

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but we certainly did not defeat various
forms of Marxism and neo Marxism,

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as Jaffa pointed out. But you
know, we did have the peace dividend,

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We did have a sort of relaxation
during the Clinton years, you know,

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Francis Fukiyama and others said, well, this proves that liberal democracy has

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won where victorious there are no other
alternatives, and then the War on Terror

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nine to eleven sort of, you
know, turn things around a little bit.

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But my argument is the cultural Cold
War is now back, and so

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a lot of the things people were
saying in the seventies and eighties turn out

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to be relevant again. And on
the question of the generation gap, you

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know, the boomers who saw the
end of the of the Cold War said,

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look, you know, we defeated
the servites. We've been through this

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political correctness stuff before. It didn't
destroy us. And now the new version

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is actually even more lame because it's
so self pitying and so pathetic, right,

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how can you take it seriously?
And of course for the young people

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who are growing up now in clown
world and had never seen anything like the

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American dream, they certainly don't think
it's it's a small beer, right well,

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and as everyone knows, it's broken
out. In the sixties, seventies

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and eighties, it was mostly confined
to the campuses and some radical journals.

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Now it's in boardrooms all over America
and in the military, right and and

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uh so that is something I did
not anticipate. I couldn't believe this craziness

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would do that. Lucretia, you
so have a I have a question,

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and I everyone now and then I
thought I got a glimpse of your answer,

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but sometimes it was just it just
uh, just a little bit out

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of my grasp, and that the
question is thinking about those two statements,

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the one by Jaffa the one by
Strauss, the general tendency of conservatives to

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be resting on their laurels for the
victories in the Cold War and so on.

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What is it about leftist ideology that
makes it the ideology itself? The

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idea is so pervasive and ultimately victorious
despite its concrete failures over and over again.

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What is it specifically that that it
gets into people that you can't get

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rid of it despite all the real
evidence that it's you know, how many

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different memes have you seen? This
is communism doesn't work because it hasn't been

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tried, you know, silly stuff
making fun of that, whoping. What

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is it? What's the explanation.
It's a very difficult problem. In a

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way, it's it's the underlying theme
of the whole book, And you have

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to I have to be very careful
about how I say this because it's very

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easy to misunderstand. But in a
way, it goes back to Socrates and

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the problem of Socrates, and it's
the idea that you can bring reason into

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our public life, into our political
life. Now, the ancients were very

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cautious about that. They were very
anti utopian. They saw very clearly the

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limits of reason in political life.
But it does hold out this tantalizing idea,

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this tantalizing promise, right, and
you know, the republic people don't.

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People forget that it's a comedy,
that it's ironic, right, and

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people read it in a straightforward way
that you can actually have the role of

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the philosophers and then Christianity again,
and I want to be careful about how

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I say this, but also adds
a complication. Um, you know,

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you have a sort of other worldliness, you have people people want to you're

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a sort of crazy line from Votland
immanentizes the Eshton right, people people want

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to bring the city of the City
of God on to earth. And so

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there's this utopian, tyrannical temptation that
takes hold in the Western mind and it's

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very hard to get rid of it. It's very hard to control. And

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that's a long complicated story, but
I think that's the root of it.

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And so do you think that the
demise of Christianity because of Macchiavelli over time

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that there's actually something in the human
soul that absolutely demands that kind of certainty,

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that kind of promise of utopia,
that either the gods of the cities

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in the ancient days or the God
of Christianity. That that's part of the

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reason why reason is why rationality.
Reason is never going to be a substitute,

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because most human beings are not capable
of living in a world where they're

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just thinking themselves. They're just thinking
about things as opposed to having faith in

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them. Do you think that's just
part of the human soul, the human

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psyche. Yeah, so's there's a
tension there, and it's insurmountable. And

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it's what Strouss pointed to when you
talked about the tension between the philosopher and

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the city. Because there's another very
you know, another theme in the book,

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which is also very deeply embedded in
the human psyche, is the need

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for what I call the holy city, that is a closed community of true

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believers, fellow citizens, united by
an intense devotion to some transcendent idea.

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And to the degree that modern secular, hedonistic life has sort of given us

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empty souls and led to this angst
and this existential on we and all that

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people are now searching for that trying
to recreate that sense of belonging in a

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way woke religiosity. Is this part
of the human psyche re emerging and returning.

359
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.839
Yeah, so I think there's a
complimentary explanation which is implied in your

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book. But I always think that
one reason for the persistence of leftism is

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the way Whittaker Chambers put it in
Witness. Right, it is the perennial

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peal, is the oldest temptation of
all, Ye shall be as God's So

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that assumes perfect knowledge, also perfect
power. Right, only God as we

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understand him is the only legitim a
tyrant, because only God is all knowing

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and all just. Now to the
extent that, and this your book is

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explicit about, to the extent that
the postmodern left as we call it,

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has abandoned reason. They've seen it's
a dead end. They become willful and

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nihilistic and angry, and as you
point out, they're not even interested in

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persuading anybody anymore. And because if
you don't believe in reason, you have

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nothing to persuade people about. And
so one of the early sentences, there's

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so many sentences that jump out that. By the way, there should be

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a tweet thread for sentences of the
book. I think that way because Okay,

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you point out on your introduction that
there's no woke utopia, unlike classical

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Marxism. There's no woke utopia.
There's no final utopia. There's just the

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permanent revolution. Because if they don't
have that, they've really got nothing.

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They don't have much, but they
wouldn't even have that. I think that's

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a really striking point right right on
this other thing. So one of the

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main arguments I think, which I
think is sort of quasi original, is

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the left is torn in a way. And we've touched on this a little

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bit of attention. On the one
hand, they still believe in reason.

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They profess to believe in science.
Right look at Fauci. You know,

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you have to accept the science I
am science. The expertise in the bureaucracy,

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the credentialing in the universities, all
of that comes out to be a

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little academic here comes out of Hegel
and the idea of the rational state.

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But on the other hand, another
part of them is torn by what we've

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00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:18.799
been talking about, is this postmodern
Nietzsche nihilism, and the left is in

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00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:23.759
a way schizophrenic, and part of
what makes it so angry and confused and

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00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:30.839
confusing is that it's pulled in these
opposite directions between rational science and expertise and

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00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.759
postmodern anti rational nihilism. Yeah,
I mean, I guess I think that

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the way science has talked about these
days as thus science, you know,

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I am the science. I think
that's more tribal than it is reasonable.

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And you say that in the book. I mean, the return of tribalism

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is the main felum in the book
that I think is quite useful. By

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00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:53.240
the way, Steve makes some sense
when we look at how many things felt

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00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:59.359
she was wrong about, and yet
he remains that the priest, the high

396
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.799
priest of the science. Yeah,
it doesn't even matter if Fauci is wrong,

397
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He's he's the authority. Yeah,
this is Fuka. You're useful.

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00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:12.480
Actually, I'll do this now,
Glenn, you're a tiebreaker. I have

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00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.640
been saying with Lucretia for years now
that you know we need to read some

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of these leftist philosophers to use the
tools against them. So I think your

401
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:23.319
book you're coming out saying I'm right
and Lucretia's wrong. That's not no.

402
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.480
I think what he's saying is that
he's a better person than me for being

403
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:32.359
able to slog through. That's what
he's saying. Joke. When I talked

404
00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:36.000
about Fuco at a conference done in
Florida a few months ago, I said,

405
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:38.960
I'm not reading this because I enjoy
it. I'mlike Fuco, I'm not

406
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:45.880
a masochist exactly. We were there
for that. That was yes, we

407
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:52.319
were Yeah, that was excellent.
But like, so, what I want

408
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:55.079
to ask you when you said about
the Holy City, this is one of

409
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:59.720
the things that I thought of.
So in the ancient Holy City, where

410
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.599
the odds, the gods of your
city were your gods, and you know,

411
00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:07.480
there was no ecumenicalism or no evangelization. You know, your gods were

412
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:10.839
your gods, and that was the
piety and citizenship were all wrapped together.

413
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:14.599
And then Christianity destroys all that.
And I wish you could give us a

414
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.279
really long discussion of that, because
it's fascinating, but we probably don't have

415
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:23.000
time. But what I want to
ask you is that when leftism, we'll

416
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:27.519
just call it that, in a
general way, decided to substitute all of

417
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:32.839
these different things. For call it
that part of the human soul that reaches

418
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:38.960
out for the holy city is leftism, not trying to be persuasive, but

419
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:47.240
nevertheless tyrannical, because it needs it
needs some kind of holy city to surround

420
00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:51.920
it to avoid the abyss. I
don't know exactly how to say it.

421
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:56.279
How if I'm a leftist and you
don't believe in my climate change, or

422
00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:00.480
you don't believe in my radical gender
ideology or whatever it might be, then

423
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:06.960
you're sort of denying my existence in
a way that my human psyche cannot tolerate.

424
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:08.960
Does that make sense? And do
you see that? Yeah, something

425
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:14.880
like that. I do a better
job because I'm just sort of spitballing here.

426
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.960
I shouldn't say and this is not
false modesty. It's generally is still

427
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:22.960
confused. I mean, I try
to make sense of it as much as

428
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:27.119
I can in the book, but
I think I still fall short because I

429
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:31.799
don't think anyone can completely understand.
There's many cross currents here, many different

430
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:37.240
factors at work. You know,
the two that I point to, Nietzsche

431
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:43.000
and Hegel are only to the most
obvious ones. But there's very complicated psychological

432
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:47.839
philosophical theoretical intersections here, you know, So what happens when you have,

433
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:52.680
first of all, one thing on
the we wish to be God's and the

434
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:55.920
one thing we haven't mentioned, which
plays another part of this is the power

435
00:32:55.960 --> 00:33:00.440
of science. Right. One reason
that tempt the god temptation wasn't quite as

436
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:05.519
prominent in the ancient world as first
of all, you didn't want to proselytize,

437
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:07.680
right, your gods belong to you, and you didn't want the heretics

438
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:13.200
from some other city leaving your gods. They were dirty and unclean, right,

439
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:16.359
you just wanted to destroy them.
So there was no proselytizing. But

440
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:23.440
also and so the idea of globalism
is something really quite modern. And then

441
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:28.559
the idea of science. Right,
we really did persuade ourselves through the power

442
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:32.319
of technology that we can turn anything
into anything. We now think that we

443
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.200
can turn little boys into little girls
through the power of science. And in

444
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:40.400
principle, you know, the transhumanists
think, I have a piece coming out

445
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.519
on the current but in the next
Claremount review of books on sort of the

446
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:50.160
biosecurity state and transhumanism, they think
that we can come close to immortality because

447
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:54.400
we now have the ability to repair
you know, human cellular mechanisms, you

448
00:33:54.400 --> 00:34:00.359
know, almost almost interminite power,
so that the science, that power of

449
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:06.480
technology really does exacerbate the god problem
that Steve talked about. So what is

450
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:09.719
the point of going on here?
Right? It's the point of intersectionality.

451
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:14.079
Why do they still want to be
global rulers? I mean, that's it's

452
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:17.079
hard to figure these things out.
I get I get it. What is

453
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:22.639
the point of intersectionality? What is
it about leftist ideology with you know,

454
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:27.519
it's a little like when you you
ever try to teach progressivism to students and

455
00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:30.679
they can't wrap their head around it
because progressivism has all these you know,

456
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:36.719
different starting way back in the in
the nineteenth century and so on. Leftist

457
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:40.719
ideology makes no sense. You point
this out very clearly in your book,

458
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:46.679
from the point of view of being
any kind of comprehensive explanation for anything.

459
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:54.320
But there has to be some point
of intersectionality across all of these different fingers

460
00:34:54.360 --> 00:35:00.239
of thought that that causes them to
be so tribal to to you know,

461
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:07.039
to um. Just as one example
for the UH, the transgender people to

462
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:12.920
successfully to denounce the jk rowlings of
the world. You know, the radical

463
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.320
feminists from before who used to be
sort of at the vanguard of all of

464
00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:21.639
this. What is it that brings
them all together? Is there anything?

465
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:24.760
Yeah, I mean there's still a
lot to do. You know, there's

466
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:28.320
more thinking and writing, I think, to be done on this subject.

467
00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:34.480
It's not totally obvious to me why
people who are for abortion and labor unions

468
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:40.840
and radical environmentalism and you know,
all of these very disparate things see themselves

469
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:45.320
as natural allies. And they all
repeat each other's agendas and talking points almost

470
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:50.320
without thinking. And they don't you
know, or you know, social media

471
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:55.320
oligarchs and antifa anarchists and green new
I mean, how do these red Glen's

472
00:35:55.400 --> 00:36:02.039
book, right, it's right obvious, Right, that's not obvious except to

473
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:07.599
the degree that they're reverting again to
something very primitive, which is friends and

474
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:13.079
enemies, right right. The enemies
are the deplorables. The enemies are the

475
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:15.519
traditionalists. That's easy to see.
And so to the degree that they have

476
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:20.719
common enemies, they see themselves as
natural allies. That's and I was just

477
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.960
going to ask or put pose an
option that doesn't go against anything you just

478
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:30.199
said. Probably is not a conference
of explanation. But I have a long

479
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:34.440
discussion, especially in your part about
FUCO. Is it, in some ways

480
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:37.280
not just the belief that we can
be our own gods, but the absolute,

481
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:45.159
unwavering attempt to undo human nature or
to overcome human nature, not just

482
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.320
nature, but not just the technological
side of it, but now of course,

483
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:53.000
to prove that our natures have absolutely
no hold on us, and then

484
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:57.480
we can. I mean, even
if you think about radical environmentalism, there's

485
00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:01.679
a certain sense where they're substantial goal
is to get rid of all human beings.

486
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:04.840
Now I get that they don't want
to get rid of themselves, but

487
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:07.039
that you know, they want to
stop us from reproducing and do it.

488
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:14.119
So is it all? Actually?
What might what might unite them to some

489
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:19.119
limited extent, is this belief that
they that they have in fact overcome nature.

490
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:22.000
And every step they go further along
those lines you have to get on

491
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:25.719
board with. Yeah, certainly a
rejection of nature is a big part of

492
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:30.039
it. You know, the self
loathing element, there's so many there's so

493
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:35.039
many different things going on here.
You know, Nietzsche talked very perceptively about

494
00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:39.960
the self loathing that comes and he
blamed it on biblical monotheism because it elevated

495
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:46.519
meekness and subservience and humility, and
he found that sort of a degrading aspect

496
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:52.039
of the human condition. That's not
necessarily to agree with everything Nat says about

497
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:57.079
Christianity and Judaism, but he does
identify what he called this slave mentality,

498
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.480
and that's that's part of the modern
problem too. So again, there's a

499
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:06.039
lot of different things going on.
Well, can we treat some of the

500
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:08.360
just the philosophical side of this for
a moment and have some fun a little

501
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:12.519
bit, because you say at one
point here is page twenty six, you

502
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:16.840
say something quite provocative and intriguing.
You say that Plato is, in crucial

503
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:22.039
respects the author of our cold civil
war, our culture war of the moment.

504
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:23.719
Oh, this is really fun.
I guess maybe the first way to

505
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:29.639
approach this is uh was Wilmore Kendall
you mentioned Harry Newman also said this were

506
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:32.519
they write when I said she actually
Athens had a point and wanting to execute

507
00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:37.480
Socrates, they actually had a decent
case against him. Yeah, I think

508
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:42.199
that's right. Right. You say
more about that work. We one of

509
00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:43.880
the things I want to do in
my book, and one of the things

510
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:46.760
that Harry Newman, this other great
Claremont professor that you've mentioned, who you

511
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:54.199
know, co taught a seminar with
Harry Joppa. Newman was very good on

512
00:38:54.320 --> 00:39:01.840
this question of the to be political
is an essential part of our nature and

513
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:06.480
you can't ever get rid of the
political, uh, you know. Newman

514
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:08.920
used to say he didn't really think
the Last Man. He thought Nitzsche was

515
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:13.440
sort of wrong about the Last Man. He thought people couldn't live that way,

516
00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:20.840
and that in the end nihilism would
always turn to violence because he thought,

517
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:22.679
he thought the last you know,
we see this nowadays. There are

518
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:25.920
a lot of sort of what Bronze
Age Pervert calls the bug men, right,

519
00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:31.880
people who just live in their cubicles
and they're sort of dead inside.

520
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:36.920
How long that can last? And
Newman used to say that there's a part

521
00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.360
of the human spirit that will always
rebel against that, and that's the emphatically

522
00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:45.320
the political, I mean, the
spirited part, the themotic part, and

523
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:49.559
we've sort of forgotten the power of
that now. And but to the degree

524
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:55.159
that uh, liberal institutions are coming
apart, one danger is unleashing this themotic

525
00:39:55.239 --> 00:40:00.239
element. One of the things politics
does is keep that under control, channel

526
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:06.239
it right, and if we don't
take politics seriously, we risk the spirited,

527
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:10.119
themotic, angry part of humanity getting
out of control. Forgive me for

528
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:17.280
doing a political thing here, but
do you suppose that some thinly thin understanding

529
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.760
of that is the explanation for the
incredible pushback not against just Trump, but

530
00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:29.719
the deplorables and especially young people who
you talk a lot about, those young

531
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.800
men. I have one of those. I mean, I have one of

532
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:37.440
those, and it's a little bit
rough for somebody like me, you know,

533
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:39.920
who's been taught about prudence and all
those other things to listen to some

534
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:45.840
of the things that those young men
talk about in my house, and they're

535
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:51.760
radical, and you know they're I
won't even say it because I actually I

536
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:53.039
don't care if they come for me, but I don't want the FBI come

537
00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:58.920
from my kids, So we'll just
leave it at that. But there is

538
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:02.719
a little bit of that most left
in that middle flyover America, if even

539
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:08.760
if they don't understand it, and
there's a lot of that tendency on the

540
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:14.559
part of the elite left to want
to squash it so that it doesn't become

541
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:21.599
something is that Is that an unfair
way of applying your brilliant insight? No,

542
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:23.559
I think that's right. You know, on the for a lot of

543
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:27.440
young guys on the right, they're
called the new right or the Distant Right

544
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.400
or whatever. The base sometimes base
right, the base, Um, you

545
00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:35.000
know, they work out, they
yeah, but they point out all the

546
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:39.199
different ways that the establishment, the
uniparty and all that is trying to make

547
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.880
them weak. Right, I mean, look, where do we just read

548
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:45.360
in the news in the last week
or two? Working out is fascist?

549
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:50.320
Right? Right? Sorry? Could
you see the headline? Oh yeah,

550
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:53.519
you see the Babylon Bee headline that
club's close for two weeks to slow the

551
00:41:53.519 --> 00:42:00.760
spread of fascist right right. Sorry, Babylon Bee is not a satire paper.

552
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.679
It's actually the greatest news source for
the information. Yeah. Right,

553
00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:08.360
So physical fitness is fascist. And
look at look at what they've done to

554
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:13.639
food in this country. You don't
have to be a conspiracy theorist to say

555
00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:17.239
that, you know, the establishment
has tried to make our food unhealthy for

556
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:21.639
the last fifty years. Well,
and I will tell you that my own

557
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.320
we don't eat seed oils, We
certainly don't eat soy of any kind.

558
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:31.920
We try to buy organic doesn't do
you any good. But I actually buy

559
00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:37.519
a lot of imported food and you
know, imported basic ingredients to make things

560
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.599
from scratch, mostly because I'm you
know, encouraged to do that. But

561
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:46.440
the more you look into it,
it's just downright scary. What the different.

562
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:51.079
We had a lovely conversation with our
friends from Italy about this. You

563
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:54.119
know, they have a hard time
eating our food because it's gross so bad.

564
00:42:55.639 --> 00:42:59.800
Well, basically, real fun is
whenever the government puts out a pyramid

565
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:01.039
of anything, you should just turn
it upside down, right, I mean,

566
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:04.840
it's a right good way to live. By the way, George McGovern,

567
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:07.400
did you a little bit of trivia? Did you know that George McGovern

568
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:12.159
was partially responsible for the food pyramid? I didn't. Doesn't surprise me,

569
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:15.440
you know, I don't know,
because well, he pushed it. He

570
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:19.920
was He was in Congress at the
time and was one of the people pushing

571
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:25.440
uh, the USDA to promote that, you know, heavy carbohydrates, yeah,

572
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:29.519
you know, low protein. Well, farm State Senator, this is

573
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:31.440
a sort of an early version of
the ethanol racket in some ways. Right,

574
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:35.000
it was good for farmers, right, Can I form minute, though,

575
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:37.760
Lucretia can I and you'll you'll want
to jump in on this. Uh

576
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.960
we do a brief detour on Harry
Newman that you mentioned, because Lucretian I

577
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:45.760
both had that seminar with him,
him and Jaffa And well we had a

578
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:47.400
different one than the one that Glenn
is referring to. I was in that

579
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:52.280
one too. Uh. Well,
we had the Harry Harry, Dog and

580
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:58.880
Pony Aristotle show. Yeah, well, not the Niegi nihilism. I took

581
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:02.599
a class on the right with what
I wanted to bring up. One thing

582
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:07.440
that did happen in our class that
bears on Glenn's book. It didn't make

583
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:09.840
any difference, by the way,
what the title of the class was,

584
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.559
Steve, I know that, Okay, Just well, I didn't mean to

585
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:16.440
contradict you on that. Well,
first of all, I'd like to get

586
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:21.840
your opinion. A lot of us
thought that Newman was putting us on that

587
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.519
he wasn't really a nihilist. But
the point is, if people didn't take

588
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:30.480
it directly or weren't persuaded directly by
Jaffa Newman, this is one theory Newman

589
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:35.519
would would try and make them confront
at the consequences of their easygoing nihilism,

590
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.800
so that they might absorb the truth
or be open to the truth indirectly.

591
00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:44.599
Now, what brings us to mind
is something Lucretian I have recalled. I

592
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:47.159
think it was a winter of nineteen
eighty four, and that was when the

593
00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:53.559
McMartin preschool sex sex abuse scandal broke. This was national news, above the

594
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:58.719
fold every day, and you know, it was the media was all over

595
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:00.440
this, and it was you know, and as we know later it turned

596
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:02.880
out to be completely fake, but
at the time it just seemed, you

597
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:07.079
know, the law enforcement believed it, and we have all this evidence quote

598
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:10.320
unquote pouring out and everything was everything
was worse and worse. And I remember

599
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:14.719
Jaffa one day and Newman agreed with
him. Jaffa said, one day,

600
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:16.599
I don't believe a word of this. This is all phony. It's all

601
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:20.840
fake. And a lot of us
were shocked that we were sort of young

602
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.960
and thought, if the Los Angeles
Times as reporting us every day, how

603
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:25.760
could this possibly be wrong? Per
fact? How could you say such an

604
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:30.599
outrageous thing. Well, it's the
contrariness that linked leaks to links to deeper

605
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:35.000
things for both of them that said
this is obviously wrong. Now, of

606
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.800
course we're all very suspicious, whether
it's a COVID or other things, because

607
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.519
a rold who have now seen all
this right? But I think that connects

608
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:45.800
to that deeper philosophical question. Let
me just well, you're thinking. My

609
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:51.079
favorite thing that newman ever said to
Jaffa, and he used to say it

610
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:54.599
fairly often, was you don't have
to worry. Your liberalism is safe with

611
00:45:54.639 --> 00:46:00.920
me, which, yeah, all
right, I have one more provocation.

612
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:05.800
I mean, have a lot more
questions, but one more provocation. You

613
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:07.559
write in your book. I forget
which page it is, but you quote

614
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:13.239
Strouss talking about how natural right is
dynamite, and I got to thinking,

615
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:15.239
oh, that's kind of makes him
sound like Edmund Burke a little, doesn't

616
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:21.039
it. That's mostly a provocational lucretia. But go ahead and help me out,

617
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:27.400
Glenn. Yes, But unlike Edmund
Burke, I would say for Strouss

618
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:31.199
it was necessary dynamite or inevitable dynamite. You can't suppress it or get rid

619
00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:35.119
of it or diffuse it. You
can try it, you have to be

620
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:37.480
careful with it, and you can
try to control it. But this in

621
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:42.239
a way goes back to what we
were talking about earlier, right that once

622
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:46.000
you introduce reason into political life,
and there's really no getting around that.

623
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:51.840
You know, part of what you
see now on the new right or the

624
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.719
distant right is a reaction against theory
and philosophy. Right, let's get an

625
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:59.960
incident in a way. It goes
back to the old paleo conservative critique,

626
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:04.559
the declaration. Right, let's just
focus on tradition and custom and religion,

627
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:08.119
that pernicious theory out. The problem
is, you can't do that. You

628
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:14.400
can't. You can't. You can
in a way turn people into subrational animals.

629
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:17.960
But first of all, that's not
a very elevated or noble way of

630
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:22.400
living. I mean, the same
people who resist theory and philosophy also want

631
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:29.400
to have noble lives and embrace the
beautiful. Uh So you can't get reason

632
00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:34.320
out of out of political life unfortunately. But it does bring in a problem,

633
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.599
that is, once you start thinking, you know, what is the

634
00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:39.599
best way of life, what is
the best regime, it does have the

635
00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:44.800
potential to be dynamite. Well,
if it's if it's true, if you're

636
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:50.320
right that Plato is the author of
our culture war, that long argument I'll

637
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:53.719
restate the problem this way. The
conventional account, which we all scorn and

638
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:58.800
you do rightly in your book,
is that, well, put it this

639
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:02.719
way, you take Plato literally,
the Republic literally, and the conventional of

640
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:07.440
you is that theoretical wisdom is superior
to practical wisdom. Contemplation is the highest

641
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:13.679
life over action. But this,
uh, is this us some I'm not

642
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:16.599
quite sure how to put this at
some level that is wrong, or certainly

643
00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:22.000
the political level. In other words, prudence and statecraft are hired in contemplation

644
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:27.119
and philosophy. Am I being completely
incoherent here understand what I'm driving at?

645
00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:31.599
I mangled it beyond recognition? Well, uh, yeah, yeah, it

646
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:35.039
just depends on the way you look
at it. I mean, uh,

647
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:40.719
statesmanship is certainly more important for human
life in ninety nine point nine percent of

648
00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:45.320
the cases, and even for the
philosopher. And I mean even the philosopher

649
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:50.199
needs statesmen because the philosopher has to
live in at least a semi decent regime,

650
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.599
right, he has to have some
time to think. Um, he

651
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:58.559
has there, you know, he
can't be in his date of complete war

652
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:04.880
of all against all. And so
philosophers too needs statesmen. To establish reasonably

653
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:07.880
just, prosperous, peaceful regimes.
Yeah, all right, let me try

654
00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:12.320
to let me approach the same question
from a different angle that may be simpler.

655
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:15.320
One of the things I realize I
recognize from your book is a phrase

656
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:20.199
I've heard a lot from the dissident
young right recently that they didn't quite understand.

657
00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:22.800
The phrase will hear from them is
the return of the old gods,

658
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:25.760
a return of the strong gods.
And you don't use that phrase directly,

659
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:30.159
but you explain what that's about,
which is this return to tribalism that we

660
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:36.880
see is a return to something very
old, and it's sort of base nature,

661
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:40.280
irony of people call themselves based right, In other words, it's unphilosophic

662
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:45.199
politics, which is the war of
all against tall. It is my town

663
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:47.440
and my tribe against your tribe,
and let's kill each other if we can't

664
00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:54.280
live together. And so platonic rationalism
provides the elevation and the completion of human

665
00:49:54.360 --> 00:50:00.039
nature. And that's my very crude
summary of Aristotle. But it's impossible to

666
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:05.440
have perfect knowledge, right right,
So far, so good, I'm you

667
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:07.719
know, towards the end, you
actually it's your final chapter, and what

668
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:13.079
do we do progress our return?
And you talk about how at the beginning

669
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:16.280
of the metaphysics and the Danima Aristotle
search that all men desire to know.

670
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:21.320
Of course, the premise there is
that something can be known, right,

671
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:23.960
and something true can be known?
And you know the way yeah, yeah,

672
00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:27.440
I'll just say one more sentence and
then let you go. Let you

673
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:30.519
both of you have at me.
The way I explained the difference between ancient

674
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:34.800
and modern skepticism, which bears on
this problem with science and rationality, is

675
00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:39.800
that socrates skepticism was I know that
I know nothing. Modern skepticism is I

676
00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:45.159
know that nothing can be known.
And there's a huge gulf between the two.

677
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:47.159
Yeah, that one I will trademark, but that there's a huge gulf

678
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:50.920
between the two. And there's our
problem. I think your book says an

679
00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:54.440
awful lot of that, right,
Yeah, so where to start? So

680
00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:58.199
right, So, for a lot
of the dis and right, the return

681
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:01.760
of the old gods, the strong
gods, it means something um, certainly

682
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:07.039
sub philosophic, right Achilles or something
like that, right, warrior, spirit,

683
00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:13.920
militant, you know, strength,
nobility, honor um, and all

684
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:19.679
of those things have their place and
they're worthwhile, and our our modern establishment

685
00:51:19.719 --> 00:51:23.880
does way too much to disparage those
uh, and it call and the dangers

686
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:30.199
that it backfires. Um, but
we're you know, there's more to human

687
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:34.639
life than that. Uh. You
know, the answer to Alcibides might to

688
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:37.599
Achilles, might be al Sobides,
who had who was also this great warrior,

689
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:43.320
but also had great respect for Socrates, and Socrates tried to tame him.

690
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:49.480
And that's a long complicated story.
Um. So I have one literary

691
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.719
question to close with, but I'll
pause and see from Lucretia has another one

692
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:55.320
or two things on her mind.
She wants to get in. I only

693
00:51:55.360 --> 00:52:00.440
wanted to ask because this is what
we often have conversations about out not the

694
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:07.159
central point of your book, but
whether whether you ask an interesting question?

695
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:10.400
What would conservatives actually do if they
you know, if if they could bring

696
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:14.480
things back, what would they bring
them back to? What would what would

697
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:21.679
be the you can commit? Thank
you? What would be the um if

698
00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:22.719
they get to have anything they ask
for, what would they want? They

699
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:28.599
probably don't know, Yeah I could. Here's a sentence from Glenn's book.

700
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:32.320
If traditional patriotic Americans could somehow win
back political power, what would they do

701
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:37.320
with it. That's what you're asking, right, what well? I'm bringing

702
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:40.119
up that Glenn said that as a
way of asking him if there is,

703
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:46.840
in fact in our constitution, in
our founding principles, a return, a

704
00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:54.920
possible return to those founding principles that
can actually that they can solve the central

705
00:52:55.079 --> 00:53:00.239
problem that you talk about, that
can bring us back to a certain kind

706
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:10.039
of tribal or holy city, but
based upon that lovely combination of reason Athens

707
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:15.360
and Jerusalem in a way that they're
no longer at a great tension with each

708
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:19.639
other. Is there a possibility for
the people like you and me that even

709
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:24.159
talk sometimes loosely about revolution, Can
we have a revolution taking us back to

710
00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:30.320
founding principles that might be applicable today, which we I think, I hope.

711
00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:32.679
I'm not putting words in your mouth
when I say you believe like I

712
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:37.760
do that because the founding principles of
the American regime were based upon a fundamental

713
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:43.519
understanding of human nature, they are
still applicable today. Just knowing having the

714
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:47.679
prudential wisdom to be able to figure
out how they would apply today is really

715
00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:52.000
the hard question, in my opinion. Would you agree with that? Yes?

716
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:55.199
So this is always the sixty four
thousand dollar question. Everyone wants to

717
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:59.639
know what to do, and it's
very, very difficult. You know,

718
00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:05.000
if you could somehow wave a magic
wand and say we want to recover you

719
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:07.199
know, the you know, the
founder's legacy, the best part of the

720
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:12.400
past, what year would you go
back to? And that's a very difficult

721
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:15.519
question. And I don't know that
you would even get even among ten very

722
00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:21.599
intelligent people on the right, you
know. Charles Kessler, sort of riffing

723
00:54:21.639 --> 00:54:24.880
off of Strauss's Three Waves of Modernity
essay, wrote a famous essay called the

724
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:30.280
three Waves of Liberalism, and he
points out that the first wave the progressives,

725
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:31.960
that's now more than one hundred years
ago, and then the second wave

726
00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:37.400
was the economic revolution by FDR,
and then the cultural revolution in the sixties,

727
00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:40.239
and we're now well passed the third
wave. So how far back do

728
00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:45.039
you have to go? And then
how feasible is that? Right? Can

729
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:50.760
you go back to an eighteenth century
set of institutions with digital capitalism and the

730
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:54.239
internet and you know, the rise
of China and the nation, you know,

731
00:54:54.320 --> 00:55:00.000
And so in a way, this
another to quote another strousse line,

732
00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:02.760
I think, is this at the
beginning of CD Man, we can't simply

733
00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:06.960
recreate the past. We can only
look to the past to give us lessons,

734
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:10.400
and we must find our own solutions
today. And I think the challenge

735
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:17.519
for the right is to figure out
what part of our institutions don't work anymore,

736
00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:21.559
which can be what parts we have
to keep? How do the principles

737
00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:25.159
apply? But we can't simply go
back to some arbitrary year in the past.

738
00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:30.119
I think, yeah, it's pretty
well agreed on. All right,

739
00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:32.679
last question and we'll let you go. Glenn. As I said at the

740
00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:39.159
beginning, so remarkably compact book,
seventy nine pages. The temptation for anybody

741
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:44.039
like you and I is to write
a long book right every pagere you go

742
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:47.159
on for a much longer time.
And so I guess what I'm asking is

743
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:51.679
is what to inspire you to write
this book and keep it so compact?

744
00:55:51.719 --> 00:55:53.360
And then the follow up question is
do you have something else on the drawing

745
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:58.719
board as a sequel or what might
be next for Glenn Elmer's So this started

746
00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:00.920
out as an essay. I've been
thinking about these things for a long time,

747
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:05.719
and I just I'm one of these
people. Partly everyone does this right?

748
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:07.519
In order to think something through,
I start writing it down in order

749
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:10.440
to explain it to myself. So
I wanted to write this essay just to

750
00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:16.920
understand this idea of you know,
how does Strauss's template about the unfolding of

751
00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:22.400
modern philosophy help explain the work regime
crisis? And it just kept getting a

752
00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.880
little too longer and longer, and
it became too long to publish as an

753
00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:30.599
essay anywhere, or even as a
book chapter. But then I figured I

754
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:32.679
had sort of said what I wanted
to say just on this particular point,

755
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:37.119
and it ended up being, you
know, too long for an essay,

756
00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:43.719
just barely long enough for a book. And encounter thought, so yeah,

757
00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:47.760
you know, it's a short book, but a very long a little too

758
00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:51.599
long to be an essay. Yeah. The second point is, yes,

759
00:56:51.639 --> 00:56:53.480
I'm working on so there's more I
think to be said on this now.

760
00:56:53.519 --> 00:57:00.039
I'm looking very closely at Max Weber
and want Max are called the problem of

761
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:06.199
polytheism or values fears, which I
think we're something we're still living with.

762
00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:09.239
You know, Weber was in a
way the smartest post Nietzsche and social scientists

763
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:14.639
in Strauss paid very close attention to
him, and I think awful lot and

764
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:17.320
Theabor also influenced the postmodernists, like
for Co and others, and I think

765
00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:22.360
there's a lot more to be gotten
out of Favor that I think is relevant

766
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:24.880
today. Oh, this is going
to be so much fun because I have

767
00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.039
kind of a not really literally this
way, I have a bit of a

768
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.400
fanboy crush on Vabor just to drive
Lucretia crazy because she she scolds me all

769
00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:36.920
the time for referring the maxim.
No. I think there's a lot there,

770
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:39.480
Glenn, and I will look forward
to that work. Yeah, congratulations,

771
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:44.480
Glen, We're gonna let you go. And you was having me.

772
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:46.039
It's always great on the show.
I appreciate it, right, take care

773
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:53.840
Glenn, Glenn. Well, gosh, I could talk to Glenn all day,

774
00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:59.360
and uh, I'm gonna look forward
to his work on Max Weber because

775
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:04.280
it allowed me to need to use
them more. But I'm just like I

776
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:07.639
say, I'm glad Glenn can read
it and understand it and he can make

777
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.400
it accessible for me because ought to
want to do it. I'll just say

778
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:14.199
this for now. I mean,
yes, a lot of Max Weber is

779
00:58:14.239 --> 00:58:19.440
just mind numbingly dull, but here
and there especially the two famous vocation lectures

780
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:22.800
from nineteen nineteen, shortly before he
died of the Spanish flu by the way,

781
00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:28.760
I think, are much more interesting
reading, and much more thoughtful,

782
00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:32.679
and much more troubling in the sense
that he realized that Weber was spotting problems

783
00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:36.639
that he didn't have good answers for. Let's leave that for now, and

784
00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:39.360
you know, some other time we'll
take it up with Glenn. Let's say

785
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:43.719
one more worried about judiciary. I
was talking about, you know, administrative

786
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:47.639
law and administrative state. But I
think I sent you Alan Dershowitz. Is

787
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:51.880
you know I've met Hwitz a couple
of times now, Yeah, I like

788
00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:55.280
Dershwitz personally. I mean I said
to him when he had him at Berkeley

789
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:59.079
two or three years ago, said, what happened to the world that after

790
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:01.199
I really hated you in the eighties, I really like you. Now did

791
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:04.679
the world change that we change?
What happened? And it was a fun

792
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:07.079
conversation, But I thought of articles. Would you argue, Steve, Sorry,

793
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:09.360
I hate to interrupt you, but
I have to ask you this question

794
00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:13.920
about Alan der Schwitz. Would you
argue that, because he is what we

795
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:19.679
might call an old fashioned liberal.
Yeah, that he himself can. And

796
00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:24.760
I think that that article actually proves
my point. Cannot stomach the kind of

797
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:37.199
intersectionality and complete complete rejection of rationality
and human nature that the new left has

798
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:42.079
taken, and that because of that, he's really not any farther to the

799
00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:45.159
right than he ever was, but
the left has gone so far the other

800
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:51.360
direction. We have more common cause
with him than we would have, say,

801
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:53.320
twenty five or thirty years ago.
Do you think that's a true explanation

802
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:58.159
or not? Really? Not quite. I don't think he's that philosophical however,

803
00:59:59.719 --> 01:00:01.119
but maybe, but in the light
sense he is. And here's why

804
01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:06.079
I think that, Yeah, he's
a little liberal. But I as I

805
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:09.239
look back now, he first started
defecting from the leftist party line. You

806
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:12.960
remember how Glenn was saying a few
minutes ago that you know, the left

807
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:15.840
all believed the same things, where
it's climate change or labor unions, these

808
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:19.119
things that seemed you know, abortion, they seem not directly connected, but

809
01:00:19.159 --> 01:00:22.239
they always are for the left.
Dershwitz, starting twenty years ago or more,

810
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:27.760
started noticing that anti Semitism was spreading
and accepted on the left. Because

811
01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:30.360
he's a big defender of Israel,
and I think he started connecting the dots

812
01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:37.360
because the people who are or anti
Semitic are also leftists in many other causes.

813
01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:39.679
And he started saying, if they're
wrong about Israel, they're probably wrong

814
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:45.360
about a lot of these other things
too, and so that's reasonable and the

815
01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:50.880
common sense meaning of the word explanation
of it and so, and that's fine.

816
01:00:50.920 --> 01:00:53.159
I mean, I'll take that.
But this article saying, oh gosh,

817
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:57.519
or a war, and he would
have been right there with Robertson Thomas,

818
01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:00.679
and I thought, oh, you
know, well, you just don't

819
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:02.360
read carefully enough. Alan. I
hate to say it, and I was

820
01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:06.480
the argument I learned from you,
really and that earlier, that if you

821
01:01:06.559 --> 01:01:09.079
read Brown carefully and some of the
other cases from the Warren era, you

822
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:13.880
realize what the part of our problem
the last twenty thirty years was the messages

823
01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:17.280
they created, and that Anthony Kennedy
perpetuated. So well, I think Anthony

824
01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:22.679
Kennedy perpetuated them. But I have
a hard time he doesn't give any citations,

825
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:28.719
so I assume you'll link to it, Steve. But what Dershowitz says

826
01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:34.280
is he had a conversation with Warren, and Warren indicated that he was committed

827
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:37.920
to the notion of a color blind
constitution. Now, if you'll recall,

828
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:43.039
in one one of our podcasts with
John You, John You claimed that the

829
01:01:43.079 --> 01:01:50.599
reason claimed, or at least intimated
that the reason that Warren chose the path

830
01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:54.960
he took, which we'll talk about
momentarily, rather than say citing the very

831
01:01:55.000 --> 01:02:00.840
famous descent of John Marshall Harland,
Justice John Marshall Harland and plus versus Ferguson

832
01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:06.719
where he says our constitution is colorblind
and neither knows nor tolerates classes amongst citizens,

833
01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:12.079
etc. That the reason Warren didn't
go for that is because he wanted

834
01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:15.559
a unanimous decision and the only way
to get everybody to go along with it

835
01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:22.000
was a stupid psychological bs that he
goes on and so forth. I pushed

836
01:02:22.039 --> 01:02:25.880
back on John for a variety of
different reasons, which you can imagine yourself.

837
01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:32.199
What Dershowitz is trying to say is
he doesn't give us a reason why

838
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:37.760
Brown doesn't do the things that he
claims it does or sort of hints that

839
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:42.559
it does. But he says,
yeah, I had a conversation with Warren,

840
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:47.000
and he because he was committed to
this colorblind constitution stuff. That's why

841
01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:52.639
he issued the Brown decision and hasn't
hasn't been wonderful. And that's just it's

842
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:58.480
nonsense, Steve, It's absolutely nonsense. But remember, remember we did an

843
01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:04.519
entire podcast on some buddy who had
um said this is the plus e versus

844
01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:12.119
Ferguson's descent, Harlan's descent was the
basis for Brown, and tried to make

845
01:03:12.199 --> 01:03:17.119
that argument, you know, and
then what we see too is is canteningy.

846
01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:20.400
Well, no, wait a minute, I think you should. I

847
01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:22.920
think you should. Well no,
I didn't mean that. I was gonna

848
01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:27.360
say, I think you should maybe
retire that one and just use President Biden's

849
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:30.559
name for Justice Sea Calls or Ken
G. Brown Justice Ken G. Brown.

850
01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:36.760
Joe, I know, sorry I
interrupted you, but no, no,

851
01:03:36.760 --> 01:03:39.679
it's all right, you're you're perfectly
well. No, here's the problem

852
01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:44.079
again. We don't need to go
through the whole thing because Steve wrote a

853
01:03:44.239 --> 01:03:50.000
really fine blog post about it,
and I actually want you to link to

854
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:53.639
that blog post so that anybody who's
interested in this conversation right now can just

855
01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:59.280
go read it, and we don't
have to reproduce it. The short story

856
01:03:59.559 --> 01:04:03.280
is round versus Board of Education,
upholds plus e versus Ferguson. They just

857
01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:10.480
find a different psychological The evolution of
psychology has gone in such a direction that

858
01:04:10.599 --> 01:04:13.519
feeling bad about race is a bad
thing as opposed to a good thing.

859
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:17.320
And therefore, if you feel bad
about your race, that has a really

860
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:23.519
bad effect on public education. If
you feel good about being separated by your

861
01:04:23.599 --> 01:04:29.960
race and you are a member of
a minority, then maybe no problem.

862
01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:33.639
Maybe there'll be no problem, which
is of course exactly what happens. And

863
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:43.599
so you have Pet arguing about what
she calls the myth of a colorblind society.

864
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:47.440
Right. The problem with that,
there's so many problems, but the

865
01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:53.239
most basic problem with it is there
isn't. Actually, she's right, there

866
01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:59.039
is no colorblind society. That's absolutely
true. But there is a colorblind constitution.

867
01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:06.239
And that's the point that what Roberts
but especially Thomas makes absolutely clear is

868
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:12.360
that the Fourteenth Amendment equal protection clause, and in general, the whole thrust

869
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:18.880
of constitutional principles are that equality before
the law definitely does not include taking account

870
01:05:19.159 --> 01:05:23.760
of race. That there is no
such thing as taking account of race.

871
01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:27.599
To get beyond race, you know
all of that. But the point is

872
01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:32.199
when she says that it's a myth
to say that we have a colorblind society.

873
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:35.599
Nobody said there was a colorblind society. And in fact, as you

874
01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:40.400
pointed out in our last podcast,
Steve, that we know that there was.

875
01:05:40.599 --> 01:05:45.239
The Supreme Court has never, up
until the case, the Harvard case,

876
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:49.199
even hinted that that's what they wanted. Yeah, you know, there's

877
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:55.159
never been an edict from the Supreme
Court, a rationale in a majority decision

878
01:05:55.480 --> 01:06:01.400
that said our constitution is color blind. Yeah, so you know, well,

879
01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:05.480
your reference the fact that the political
explanation often given as well, Warren

880
01:06:05.519 --> 01:06:11.679
wanted to have unanimous chord for its
political force. Okay, that's move yuck.

881
01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:15.119
Yeah right, Well, but see
I can conversely say, you know,

882
01:06:15.320 --> 01:06:21.480
I wonder if maybe Warren always shied
away from a direct confrontation with racial

883
01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:27.280
classification because it would cast a bad
light on his role in the Japanese internment

884
01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:30.079
of World War Two. I don't
know. Well, look, I mean,

885
01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:31.000
if you know, if you're going
to make up the stuff about either

886
01:06:31.039 --> 01:06:34.440
political reasons for the writing the Brown
decision the way he did, there's a

887
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:38.360
bigger reason now and I've mentioned this
before, but this is the perfect place

888
01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:43.159
to bring it up. The precursor
case from what nineteen forty eight about law

889
01:06:43.199 --> 01:06:47.440
schools Sweat versus Painter. I think
it's a point I wanted to go back

890
01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:50.599
and find a record of the oil
argument in that case, because had the

891
01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:56.800
arcus told me once that there's a
moment where as he recalled Justice Wiley,

892
01:06:56.880 --> 01:07:01.400
Rutledge says to the person arguing for
the plant if, why don't why don't

893
01:07:01.400 --> 01:07:08.079
you ask us just to declare all
racial classifications unconstitutional under the protection clause of

894
01:07:08.119 --> 01:07:11.599
the fourteenth Amendment and the law.
I know how it went, the lawyer

895
01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:15.199
said in his memoirs afterwards, I
proceeded to give Justice Rutledge ten minutes of

896
01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:19.559
pure bullshit. In other words,
he didn't say, yes, you should

897
01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:25.440
do why not? I think from
very early on it was always intended to

898
01:07:25.480 --> 01:07:30.679
reserve the possibility that you could have
racial classifications for the purpose of redistribution of

899
01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:34.440
wealth reparations, right, And they
never wanted the court to actually do what

900
01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:41.679
the Court has finally done here two
weeks ago. Yes, exactly, that's

901
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:45.679
right, right, and uh,
and you know we saw I think we've

902
01:07:45.679 --> 01:07:47.000
mentioned you have justice. Brennan.
I think it was saying, you know,

903
01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:50.199
we've never recognized the color blind constitution
in the backy case. Right,

904
01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:54.840
So anyway, this is uh,
you know, gets curious or and curious

905
01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:58.239
or the longer you go. Well, and quite frankly, it was not

906
01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:03.480
the opinion of conservative justice is other
than Thomas. Until recently it was even

907
01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:08.840
conservatives were unwilling to make that principle
stand. I guess if you're if you're

908
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:14.679
a rankdist or Scalia positivist, then
you know, the whole idea that there's

909
01:08:14.679 --> 01:08:19.520
a principle of equality enshrined in equality
before the law, that's not something that's

910
01:08:19.560 --> 01:08:23.920
not a way you want to go. You want to appeal instead, which

911
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:28.840
is okay. I mean the appeal
to fundamental fairness, the idea that you

912
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:31.720
don't make somebody who is not part
of the injury part of the remedy.

913
01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:36.039
You know, you don't punish an
innocent person who's never discriminated, who didn't

914
01:08:36.039 --> 01:08:41.600
own any slaves. You know,
you don't do those things in order to

915
01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:45.439
prefer someone else. And in a
zero sum game, that's exactly what happens

916
01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:49.159
in Harvard admissions, medical schooled admissions, and so on. But there have

917
01:08:49.279 --> 01:08:56.359
been so few people in between Marshall, John Marshall, Harlan excuse me in

918
01:08:56.479 --> 01:09:02.760
eighteen ninety six and Clarence Thomas in
twenty twenty three who were even willing to

919
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:10.800
argue the fundamental principle of the rule
of law and equal protection before the law

920
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:15.680
that is enshrined and was intended to
be enshrined by the fourteenth Amendment. And

921
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:20.359
when when I mean that's maybe in
my entire life. The only thing that

922
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:27.399
cantin ye Jackson Brown ever says with
which I will agree, and that is

923
01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:30.079
that the myth of a colorblind society. We don't have a color We have

924
01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:36.600
a society that is obsessed with the
question of race at every level. We

925
01:09:36.680 --> 01:09:42.680
can no longer was it California or
was it I don't Chicago. That's going

926
01:09:42.720 --> 01:09:48.279
to automatically reduce the sentences of black
black's convicted talking about that somewhere. Of

927
01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:53.680
course, I don't, right,
we are obsessed with it. Yeah.

928
01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:58.640
One one more stray thought from something
you said a minute ago. The Brown

929
01:09:58.680 --> 01:10:03.279
decision rested on psycholog iCal evidence.
That's that segregated schools made black people feel

930
01:10:03.319 --> 01:10:08.520
inferior. We'd say these days lowered
your self esteem. Well, here we

931
01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:11.760
are today, and what do you
see. We're resegregating universities, we have

932
01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:15.720
black housing, we have these separate
ethnic graduations. Why do we do that

933
01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:18.560
because it makes them happier? I
mean, it isn't the claim right,

934
01:10:19.039 --> 01:10:21.720
this is good for their right,
there's no there's no stigma, that's you

935
01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:25.479
know, good for their So in
other words, the even the central prop

936
01:10:25.520 --> 01:10:29.920
of brown has been reputated by the
left so well. And I would go,

937
01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:32.279
so go one step further than that, and and look at some of

938
01:10:32.319 --> 01:10:40.760
the attempts to provide cover for KTNG
in the left, you know different,

939
01:10:41.399 --> 01:10:46.880
uh, that they really have to
work hard to try and overcome. What

940
01:10:47.119 --> 01:10:51.760
is very obvious to people, anybody
with any intelligence whatsoever, is that she

941
01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:59.319
doesn't have any That she is absolutely
unqualified to be on the Supreme Court.

942
01:10:59.399 --> 01:11:02.640
She has know, she doesn't have
what we would call a legal mind.

943
01:11:03.079 --> 01:11:09.319
You know, she's no Richard Epstein, she's no John Marshall. She would

944
01:11:09.319 --> 01:11:14.520
probably I mean, if she wrote
something like that descent for as a case

945
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:16.239
brief in my class, I'd have
failed her for it because the arguments are

946
01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:20.319
so stupid and bad. But what
do you expect and the point I have

947
01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:24.600
to bring it up again because it's
such a good point that John made a

948
01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:28.079
couple of weeks ago when the case
first came out. This is the problem

949
01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:30.880
with affirmative action, and maybe it's
will be the left sundoing, which is

950
01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:41.119
that across so many different important occupations, merit matters. Merit matters, And

951
01:11:41.399 --> 01:11:45.840
I don't care if my doctor.
I don't care what color my doctor is.

952
01:11:45.840 --> 01:11:47.479
I kind of like them not to
have an accent so thick that I

953
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:51.079
can't understand them, because but beyond
that, you know what, if you're

954
01:11:51.119 --> 01:11:56.720
the best doctor, that's who I
want. I couldn't care less what color

955
01:11:56.800 --> 01:12:00.039
your skin is, what sex you
or any of those things. I do

956
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:03.800
you care if the person is there
just because they happened to be the right

957
01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:08.319
color and they didn't have the merit
to do what they needed to do.

958
01:12:08.359 --> 01:12:14.600
But remember, medical schools no longer
use tests, yeah at all. They

959
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:21.199
don't. You pass or you fail. And I mean it's United. Steve

960
01:12:21.279 --> 01:12:26.119
likes to fly United. I'm a
little iffy about it because United has made

961
01:12:26.119 --> 01:12:31.960
it very clear that their entire pilot
staff is now subject to very strict quotas

962
01:12:33.479 --> 01:12:38.520
did you know that. Well,
yeah, I'm also skeptical they're really going

963
01:12:38.600 --> 01:12:41.439
to go through that. But let's
draw a veil over that will to be

964
01:12:41.479 --> 01:12:45.039
continue. We're going to return to
all these issues and as we go forward,

965
01:12:45.159 --> 01:12:48.159
and I think we should move on
to our closer, which actually involves

966
01:12:48.239 --> 01:12:55.800
the same subject in different contexts,
our affirmative action. Right, the other

967
01:12:55.880 --> 01:13:00.479
lady whose name you like to actuate, John's not here to do our camela

968
01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:02.560
Ism of the week, so we'll
have to do it for him. I

969
01:13:02.680 --> 01:13:08.199
was telling Steve before we got started
today that I actually was listening to something

970
01:13:08.239 --> 01:13:14.079
on as I was driving today,
and they started off with Kamala's latest word

971
01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:15.560
salad, which I'm going to read
for you here, and then they actually

972
01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:19.920
went through a nice montage of all
of her ridiculous word salads, which we

973
01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:24.760
don't need to do here because we
had actually covered every single one of them

974
01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:30.119
at some point or another. But
she and another affirmative action of pointy,

975
01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:36.359
Pete Buddha Jedge hosted a round table
with disability rights leaders, and she was

976
01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:48.439
complaining about how inaccessible airline bathrooms are, right and and this is the crisis

977
01:13:48.479 --> 01:13:51.800
of our time, and you know, so she got she got lots of

978
01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:57.119
grief about the fact that, you
know, with all the crises out there,

979
01:13:57.319 --> 01:14:01.640
the fact that airline bathroom which are
no fun for anybody, thank you.

980
01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:03.920
I mean, nobody wants to use
them if they don't have to,

981
01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:09.600
they usually do have to anyway.
So she makes this comment, I have

982
01:14:09.680 --> 01:14:14.640
to get it right. It is, well, there's a tweet about it,

983
01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:16.760
but that I have. But well
you have the treat. But this

984
01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:23.119
is what she actually said talking about
how important it was. This issue of

985
01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:29.800
transportation is fundamentally about just making sure
that people have the ability to get where

986
01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:34.399
they need to go. It's that
basic. Yeah, here's your tweet for

987
01:14:34.399 --> 01:14:38.800
the middle of the week. It
came out of nowhere. The majority of

988
01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:44.960
domestic flights do not have accessible restrooms. This is absolutely unacceptable. Our administration

989
01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:49.199
will soon announce a solution to help
end this inequity. So inequity, by

990
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:51.760
the way, I think she said
most so maybe it's correct. I think

991
01:14:51.800 --> 01:14:57.119
the latest generation of why bodies,
the Triple sevens and seven eighty sevens,

992
01:14:57.119 --> 01:15:00.520
they do have a wheelchair accessible bathrooms
on them, but they're bigger planes.

993
01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:04.640
Do they have the chair accessible aisles? Uh? Well, yeah, they

994
01:15:04.680 --> 01:15:09.159
have those little skinny wheelchairs they bring
people on, right, So how you

995
01:15:09.319 --> 01:15:12.159
Okay, it's what do you do
if you're one of those heavy set people

996
01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:14.680
that the only reason you're in a
wheelchairs because you're too fat to walk?

997
01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:18.000
Well, okay, that's uh,
that's sorry. Sorry, I'm being rotten.

998
01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:21.399
Yeah, that's uh. Well,
my question is are they going to

999
01:15:21.439 --> 01:15:25.960
get into aircap craft design now?
No more likely because there's a mandate that

1000
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:29.760
uh, you know, airlines have
to reptrofit or seven thirty sevens, which

1001
01:15:29.760 --> 01:15:33.319
are well, let's sometimes fly allway
across the country, but to take out

1002
01:15:33.319 --> 01:15:39.039
two rows to put in a wheelchair
accessible restroom and I don't know. I

1003
01:15:39.039 --> 01:15:41.520
mean, that's you know, and
part of me doesn't feel too sorry for

1004
01:15:41.560 --> 01:15:45.279
the airlines after all the money they
got during COVID anyway, So well,

1005
01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:48.079
yeah, there's I know, I'm
all over the place tonight. I do

1006
01:15:48.199 --> 01:15:53.319
want to follow on that, however, with the Babylon v quote, because

1007
01:15:53.680 --> 01:15:58.760
she was also um, as we
all know, she is the Aiyes are

1008
01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:06.720
for the Biden administration. Oh right, that's so, And this is not

1009
01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:11.279
exactly her quote. It's actually very
close to this though, because I heard

1010
01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:15.319
the quote. But this is from
the Babylon be In a speech given this

1011
01:16:15.439 --> 01:16:20.159
week, Vice President and Artificial Intelligences
are Kamala Harris probably announced it. After

1012
01:16:20.319 --> 01:16:27.680
months of dedicated research and extensive study, she has determined what the initials AI

1013
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:31.640
stand for. This discovery, she
says, is the result of intense research.

1014
01:16:31.680 --> 01:16:35.359
It is with great pride that I
am here to let the world know

1015
01:16:35.680 --> 01:16:42.680
that the letters AI actually stand for
artificial intelligence. That's the part she did

1016
01:16:42.720 --> 01:16:45.279
say. At no point in the
history of AI has this secret been known.

1017
01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:49.479
I have gained this knowledge and now
know this knowledge, because after you

1018
01:16:49.520 --> 01:16:54.239
gain knowledge, you then know it. This is how knowledge works. And

1019
01:16:54.279 --> 01:17:02.520
then she cackles. The part she
said was that the letters AI actually stand

1020
01:17:02.520 --> 01:17:10.359
for artificial intelligence. You can go
jokes all day on her discovering artificial intelligence

1021
01:17:10.399 --> 01:17:15.560
when she hasn't having natural intelligence themselves. Don't say, Steve, all right,

1022
01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:17.920
let's get out. We're starting to
urge on going too long. Let's

1023
01:17:17.960 --> 01:17:23.199
see what John usually says, always
drink your whiskey, neat, Let's go

1024
01:17:23.359 --> 01:17:29.359
Brandon and God saved the Queen Man. God saved the Queen Man. John

1025
01:17:29.359 --> 01:17:30.760
will be back this next week,
but for now, Bye bye, everybody.

1026
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:46.319
Thanks for listening. U No,
no, you nervous at the end.

1027
01:17:51.880 --> 01:18:10.560
Just keep this means that once I've
gone your devotion. Sweet come to

1028
01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:17.079
me, I got a whole mass
case for your recreation. Some sorry asked

1029
01:18:17.079 --> 01:18:29.119
me something gap betweet janations, your
raoul. You have bepted, tell me,

1030
01:18:29.560 --> 01:18:41.840
tell you right to the world,
the worlds attention. Don't be school.

1031
01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:47.159
Pleaside your hand and on like it's
going down the giant to you know,

1032
01:18:48.399 --> 01:18:58.880
until you know the love creation.
Sweet rail, come to me,

1033
01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:21.439
I got are so sorry as sweetserations
see Ricochet join the conversation.