WEBVTT

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Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, and
welcome to the one hundred and fiftieth episode

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of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast,
So Damn Paranormal. I don't feel like

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swearing when you say happy holidays,
but it's my name is Jason Knight,

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host of the show, and with
me as always is Oscar Spector Happy Holidays,

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the polite producer Extraordinary and podcast co
host, So Oscar. What has

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been going on over this last month? I mean, not a lot,

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unfortunately, nothing to report necessarily.
I would say that one thing is that

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I you know, this feels like
the one hundred and fifty first episode.

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I don't know why. I'm just
gonna have to bear with me on that

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one. Guys, it just feels
like we're a number below where we are.

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Okay, nothing, what's been going
on? And see not just getting

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ready for holidays? I guess no, But for me, holidays mean work

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means work for me, you know, not a whole lot of changes other

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than it gets worse, just gets
busy on holidays. On my end,

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you know, there's no there's no
time off. Last time I enjoyed actual

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holidays, I guess was when I
should go to school and school time was

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off, right, It's the time
and you could actually have the time off

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and stuff. So not to be
all downy Debbie Downey on it, I'm

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just saying that. No, I'm
kind of just been working and yeah,

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like today, a little work,
a little later. But yeah, it's

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been an ok day, an okay
time, playing some games, watching some

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movies, getting ready for the end
of the year list. It's the craziest

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time of the year for me for
that, Oh, the end of the

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year. Top ten, that's right, yeah, top ten movies of the

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year. Don't ask me. I
have no idea. I wrote. I

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wrote down, like you know,
all the movies I watched, and I'm

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like, I don't know how I'm
gonna whittle this down. Yeah, it's

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all right, it's gonna leave it. And that's been just chilling around.

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Man. How about you kind of
the same here, you know, just

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busy, busy with work as always, but you know, having kids,

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Yeah, I mean, we're in
that magical moment right before Christmas. Today

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is their last day of school and
they're just so excited and it's really cool

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to just sit back and take that
in as parents, because we don't enjoy

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it that much anymore. It's always
very busy and hectic, like you said,

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but just seeing the look on the
kids' faces and feeling that anticipation,

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it's awesome. And you know,
we're also planning vacation immediately after Christmas.

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We're heading down to flow Rider to
do some dolphins swimming and going to Disney

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and all sorts of cool stuff.
So we're really looking forward to that time

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off of work, just being as
a family. Are you planning on for

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Christmas itself before you leave? Are
you planning on making something, baking something,

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cooking something? Yeah? So Christmas
Eve, my son he's in a

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musical for CCD class that's religious education
class for people who don't know. It's

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to get him ready to make his
first Communion. He's playing a little one

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of the three kings in that show. So we're really excited about that Christmas.

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I believe he's the third. I
don't want to say it's like Baltazaar

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or something like that. That's the
last right. I looked this up when

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we first found out about it.
I think it's like King Balthazar or something.

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But when we come home, I'm
making a nice uh veener schnitzel and

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spetzel for for the family and my
mom, which I do pretty good at,

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I think. And then Christmas Day
it's just hectic, get up,

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open gifts, go to the in
laws, come back home, cook a

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dinner for my family. I'm not
looking forward to that one at all.

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But your family party, just the
just having to go and have a Christmas

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and then come home and create a
Christmas later that night. It's gonna be

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it's gonna be challenging. But hey, those are the holidays for adults.

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Yeah. Yeah, but yeah,
other than that, nothing, nothing else,

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nothing else really to report. That's
cool. Yeah, yeah, all

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right. Oh, I guess I
should have mentioned if you want to skip

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the intro timestamp in the show notes. I forgot to mention that. Oh

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yeah, it's fine, fine,
it's Chris. I mean, we're we're

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yeah, it's Christmas. It's been
hacked it We're a little lot of practice.

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It feels that way anyway, And
and it frankly feels like I'm in

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a groundhog Day scenario right now.
I feel kind of like Bill Murray right

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now. Actually, I think should
we mention it? Yeah, last night

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Oscar and I were up very late
recording this exact same episode, and uh,

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we get to the end of it. I think it went really well.

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And we get to the end of
it and I realized I didn't hit

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record. No, the lanscap was
on the whole time. It's like,

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it's like we go to It's like
we go to Martin Scorsese in nineteen ninety

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making Goodfellas, and we do that
wonner that one shot through the cat,

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through the whole, through the kitchen, glove right through the kitchen, and

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radio nails it. Everyone's in a
good mood. It's like the seventh time.

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They all want to go to State, but they were just you know,

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it's a good time. We make
it and the camera guy goes other

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lenscap was on hold on exactly the
same, exactly the same, and Marty

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is like, that was a perfect
shot. How was it? Oh,

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how do we tell them this?
How do we tell them? Yeah,

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so here we go Take two.
Take two. So to your point,

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a husker a little bit rusty,
I guess being off the mics for so

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long, I guess so right.
I do want to mention really quickly that

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we have received quite a bit of
feedback on Instagram and Facebook, from listeners

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who are are okay with the format
change that we made. They understand that

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it had to be done to keep
the quality of the show up, and

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they were support. Supportive was the
word I was looking for, So definitely

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thank them for that. Yeah,
that is super awesome. You know,

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that reminds me of something else.
Might had a feedback of a personal nature

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for the show. Many personal meaning
people that I know that actually listen to

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the damn show. It's hard to
Yeah, family and French, sure,

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but I trust me, when you're
a podcaster, they rarely have ever listened

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to it. But the one a
few that do really suggested has told me,

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through two or three different different occasions
already, like are you gonna make

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because I mentioned that one idea of
many shows ago this year, how maybe

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I should make some of our shows
curate them for for like a TikTok video

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or something, because some of them
can't be translated into that, you know,

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not not so much others, but
some do. And she was like,

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are you gonna do that yet?
You know, she's excited. I

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want me to do it. I'm
like, I haven't started yet yet.

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I don't know which one, but
maybe so and that's uh, that's not

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just one. Two people told me
that. Something asked me that about if

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I'm doing that, and I'm like, I would be interested. It's just

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that I know it's gonna be a
lot of work, and it's just it's

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extra work that I don't need to
do, so I'm not gonna rush it.

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Well, it's good to know people
are interested in that. That sort

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of set up. It's cool,
right exactly. So anyway, so I

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mentioned that give them what they want
to, let them eat cake. Oh

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is that a Marie Antoinette and something? Yes, eat your cake and listen

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to the podcast too. Right,
So how will they ever reach us today

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if they even want time? Yes? So the easy number, of course,

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no phone over right. The easiest
way to contact the Supernatural Occurrent Studies

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Podcast is by visiting our brand new
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Patreon, I do want to give
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marshmallow Man level patron Generally from the
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supporting the podcast. Generally General is
also a podcast host. I want to

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make sure and mention this. It's
the Subconscious Realms podcast. Yeah, you

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can find them on Spotify. If
you love conspiracy and aliens and cryptozoology and

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anything weird and unusual, definitely check
them out. And while you're on Spotify,

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give them a rating. Spotify is
a brand new rating system, so

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please rate Subconscious Realms and if you
listen to our show on Spotify, please

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do the same. We need some
love on Spotify. You can reach the

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podcast by calling a phone number.
Hi Romance Romans. You can't, you

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00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:05.720
can't? Could you? Just?
Is that for modell something? I go

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ahead eight seven two five to two
die zero seven six seven that Chicago area

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00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:16.519
code eight seven two five two died
zero seven six seven. Leave us a

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00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:20.600
message, send us a text.
We'll not awake enough to argue with you

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00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:22.600
on this one, Okay, not
await da, He's just gonna let it

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00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.960
go. Yeah, that's time.
Don't get you said, folks. Yeah,

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Now, before we go to break
Oscar, I do just want to

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mention this is a show about a
cannibal. This is not going to be

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a pretty show. So I'm giving
people fair warning right now. Stop eating,

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don't do anything like that while you're
listening to this episode. Well interesting,

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we're doing like cannibal. Huh?
And first of all, did not

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predict that? Did na see that
coming? First of all? Secondly,

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is it like a Christmas cannibal,
like a like a guy who eight people

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in Christmas? Maybe? Or is
it a Santa Claus that went crazy one

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time? Or is it a no
no no, It's just not nothing related,

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nothing fast, nothing festive at all
at all other than I'm bringing some

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00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:13.639
depraved ship to our listeners for Christmas. Is it's like your revenge for having

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to cook Christmas? Make Christmas into
food? The world will suffer, right

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00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.120
exactly, Okay, I'd be waring
guys. So with that, let's take

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a quick break. Let's do it. Listeners, welcome back to the show.

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Well, the lights are turned down
low, the ceremonial candle is lit,

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and the drinks are flowing. Let's
start this show. So is Si

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Sagawa, also known as the Kobe
cannibal or just pang like a sudden overwhelming

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00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:05.120
urge or feeling like hunger pangs,
is a Japanese murderer, necro file,

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and cannibal, a nice little trifecta
of fuckery who killed an Aida woman in

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Paris, France in nineteen eighty one. Now I say it's he. Sagawa

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is a Japanese murderer, necrophile and
cannibal instead of was, because this guy,

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despite his absolutely appalling crime, is
alive and not so well in the

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suburbs of Tokyo today, hobbling along
as a free man, and believe it

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or not, for a time,
it's he. Sagawa even gained minor celebrity

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status, cult like status based exclusively
on the terrible crimes he committed. An

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oscar. He even did a stint
in porn but I'm getting ahead of myself.

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Now. I just want to again
issue a warning. This is a

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00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:05.799
pretty nasty episode. I'm calling it
a red Band episode, so listeners beware.

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The thing Sagawa did to his victim
are atrocious acts born in hell,

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and the fact that Sadowa got off
with little more than a slap on the

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wrist is just unbelievable. Actually,
it's hard to believe this story actually happened,

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that this is a true story,
but it is. Now. Be

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sure to check the show notes because
we've left a lot of pictures that coincide

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with this episode. Pictures of Issy
Sagawa, pictures of his victim, and

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some crime scene photos and Oscar.
I really had some trouble with these crime

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scene photos. I went back and
forth with myself trying to decide if I

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should include them, because it wasn't
like picking your favorite out no, no,

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00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.960
no favorites in this No. I
just went back and forth trying to

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decide if I should even put him
in there, because they do exist,

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unfortunately I've seen them. Decided to
do is include some of the crime scene

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photos, but not all. I'm
not going to include photos of the victim

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herself or more like what remained of
the victim after Sagawa was done with her.

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The photographs of Sagawa's handiwork are so
fucking brutal. Just if you really

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00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.000
want to see them, use Google. Unfortunately, they're all too easy to

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find, but be warned, you
can't un see them now. Issi Sagawa

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was born on April twenty sixth,
nineteen forty nine, in Kobe, Japan,

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on the southern side of the island
of Hanshu. Now astute listeners might

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recognize the island of Hanshu because on
the northwestern side of the island, about

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a five hour drive from Kobe,
lies the notorious Aokigahara Forest, which we

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covered in episode one hundred and forty
eight. Yeah not too long ago,

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right, that's two episodes ago.
What yep, yep? Now is he

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Sagawa? His crimes have nothing to
do with aoki Gihara Forest, Like he

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00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:09.240
didn't kill there or anything. But
Sagawa once told the documentary film crew from

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Vice dot Com that Aokigahara has breathtaking
scenery and that if he could drive,

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he would go there and kill himself. So our cannibal Sagawa was well aware

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of Aokikihara, the suicide Forest,
and the legends surrounding it. I just

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thought that was a nice little tie
in to our Aokikihara episode, you know,

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Oh yeah, for sure. All
right, So, like I said,

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is He Saga the Kobe Cannibal was
born on April twenty sixth, nineteen

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forty nine in Kobe, Japan,
Hence the Kobe Cannibal. Now as a

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child, is He Sagawa was very
unhealthy. He was born premature, and

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it said that as a newborn,
he was so small that he could fit

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in the palm of his father's hand. Could you imagine a kid being that

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small? I can. Actually I
was a premie. You were a premium.

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00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:06.080
Oh yeah, like all these years, I had no idea. I

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never mentioned that. I mean,
it's not like I opened up high a

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mosca was a premie. I mean
to try for that to come out,

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you know what I mean, you
have to plan. There's no topic of

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prem anyway. Whatever I was,
and I heard stories like my father would

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put me in the inside pocket of
his jacket in the winter. Oh my

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god, is that adorable. I
mean, I can only imagine. I've

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never seen a picture. And they
also would put me in shoe boxes.

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I want to ask her in a
shoebox. No, no, you don't.

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00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.360
Apparently we're very expensive and unlimited.
Apparently unlimited type and fragile, I

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00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:45.600
would assume, probably quite fragile.
I didn't, I didn't call. I

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00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.600
caught him my mom. A lot
of problems, but I wasn't like.

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00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.919
It wasn't like a Preemi with all
these other complications. There were some,

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00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.440
I'm sure, but nothing to worry
about that that Dy've told me. But

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00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:59.879
I was just I was a few
weeks or a month. Maybe I don't

215
00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:03.240
know. Ah, Okay, I
learned something new every day. I did

216
00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:07.960
not know that. Yep. So
I'm like this guy basically Oscar and the

217
00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:10.960
Cannibal, one of the same,
right one saying we're basically that's how it

218
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:18.039
starts. That's first sign, first
sign. Oh god, So we're gonna

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00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:19.799
get a lot of hate mail from
people who were born premature. We are

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00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:23.079
not because I'm one. It's like
it's like if I'm Hispanic, I can

221
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.839
make Hispanic jokes. That's the same
way I can make Preema jokes. Damn,

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00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.599
a whole new world just opened up. The whole huge joke, said

223
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.559
our cannibal is the he was premature. But not only was he premature,

224
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:44.000
he was also born with something called
enteritis, a disease of the small intestine.

225
00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:49.119
Now common side effects of enterritis are
diarrhea, vomiting, loss of appetite,

226
00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:53.519
and fever. It's a lot like
food poisoning. Actually, Now in

227
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:57.880
adults and to writis can be treated
fairly easily with lots of rest and lots

228
00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:02.960
of fluid to prevent the hydration.
I've had food poisoning a few times.

229
00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:06.079
It was really bad and I wanted
to die, but in a day or

230
00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:10.279
so I was over it and on
my way right. However, in newborns,

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00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:17.039
especially when premature, enteritis could be
very dangerous, even fatal. Not

232
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:22.400
eating, not gaining weight, vomiting, diarrhea, temperature fluctuations, intestinal perforations,

233
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:30.039
and blood infections are all potential side
effects of infant and enteritis. Now

234
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:34.720
with Issi, he received potassium and
chloride and saline injections and he was cured

235
00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:41.319
of the enteritis. But at the
early age of two, Issi Sagawa contracted

236
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:48.759
Japanese encephalitis, a very dangerous viral
brain infection and the most prevalent and significant

237
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:56.559
Mosquito born viral encephalitis of man.
Japanese encephalitis targets the central nervous system,

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00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:02.759
and its clinical side effects are fever, headache, vomiting, seizures, men

239
00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:07.480
ingeal irritation or the irritation of the
membranes that cover the brain and spinal cord,

240
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:15.759
and interestingly, abnormal behavior and altered
consciousness. Life long effects of Japanese

241
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:22.000
encephalitis include deafness, weakness on one
side of the body, and uncontrollable emotions.

242
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:27.559
Very interesting, really, huh Yeah? Now, Apparently for Issy,

243
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:33.279
his Japanese encephalitis was so severe that
he almost died from it, and both

244
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:38.759
childhood illnesses, the enteritis and the
encephalitis, resulted in Issy being incredibly short,

245
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:45.440
thin, weak, sickly, and
withdrawn for the rest of his life.

246
00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:51.160
These traits haunted him. In fact, as a full grown adult when

247
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:56.880
he committed his heinous act. Isi
Sagawa stood under five feet tall four foot

248
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.640
nine inches according to most sources,
not the imposing monster you might think he

249
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:06.720
was considering what he did. In
fact is he described himself as looking more

250
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:11.960
like a little monkey than a human. But Issi, despite his physical shortcomings,

251
00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:17.400
he was intelligent, he did great
in school, earning a master's degree,

252
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:21.720
and he was working on his PhD
when he committed his cannibal crimes.

253
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.759
This guy had a thirst for knowledge, especially literature. And just so you

254
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.039
know, listeners, there's going to
be a lot of unintended puns in this

255
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:37.880
episode. Thirst for literature. You've
been warned now. As far as his

256
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.839
family is concerned, and this will
be important later, is said how his

257
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:45.960
family was affluent, they had money
is He's father, Akira, was the

258
00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:52.519
president of Karita Water Industries, and
Issy's grandfather had been editor for the Ashi

259
00:20:52.720 --> 00:21:00.000
Shimbung, one of the four largest
newspapers in Japan. Generational wealth right now.

260
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.880
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a lot
of information on Issy's mother. Most

261
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.920
articles just stating that she had this
tendency of being what's known as a dragon

262
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:14.839
mother, overprotective, overbearing, and
strict, all with good intentions, of

263
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.480
course, but a huge bite in
the ass nonetheless see pun. Yeah,

264
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:26.240
a lot of hard to digestic.
A lot of what I read about Issy's

265
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.119
mother talked about how she would force
feed her infant son in hopes of fattening

266
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:34.039
them up to make them healthy.
Even here in the States, there was

267
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:38.160
a time when it was thought that
a fat kid was a healthy kid,

268
00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:42.759
and such was the case with IS's
mother. Yeah, I've heard those things,

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like it's like when you hear that
in medieval times are not that long

270
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:51.480
ago, maybe less than that.
It would be like no, well no,

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I remember now and that movie Spencer
I saw, they did this thing

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00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:59.759
where like they weighed the royal family
when they come in for Christmas week or

273
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.160
again, and they were expected to
gain a certain amount of pounds. That

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would mean that you honorably like enjoyed
the food like they so they would weigh

275
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.440
you on the way out, and
then the hopes that you were there would

276
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.119
be like an extra five to three
pounds whatever they wanted. Yeah, that

277
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.400
was like a common thing back then. Yeah, the fat, chubby,

278
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.359
healthy baby, right, I mean
that was that was the thing. Yeah.

279
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:26.359
Yeah, so with with Izzy's mother. According to Izzy, this this

280
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:33.160
force feeding, her obsession with food
echoing health, actually helped fuel his cannibalistic

281
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.559
desires and really over the years,
Iss he has given numerous reasons as to

282
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:44.599
why he developed this unnatural, all
consuming urge to eat flesh, an urge

283
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:48.200
he says that began to develop when
he was just in first grade when a

284
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male's when a male classmates exposed milky
white thigh made Issy think that looks delicious.

285
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.799
Those are Issy's works, not mine. Some early shit though, yeah,

286
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:06.839
really really early. Yeah. So
Issy recalls his mother's force feeding,

287
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.640
and he also recalls this game his
uncle would play with Issy and his younger

288
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.799
brother June, during which his uncle
would dress up as a monster while Issy

289
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.799
and his younger brother June played as
knights, and the little knights would fight

290
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:23.720
the monster, and if the kids
lost, the monster would place the children

291
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:30.599
literally into a large pot for stewing
and eating as punishment for losing the make

292
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:34.480
believe battle. Now, this game
was intended to be fun, innocent,

293
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:38.839
a little rough role playing, you
know, rough house role playing between uncle

294
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:42.440
and children. The uncle meant nothing
bad by this, but for Issy,

295
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:48.680
the thought of eating human flesh,
even at a young age, was fascinating

296
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.880
and it would stick with them,
consume him pun for the rest of his

297
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.839
life. Yeah, and not to
mention that when you combine all these things,

298
00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.880
like you know, the the very
nature of having a human stew but

299
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.920
as a fun activity, like you
associate fun with it, you know,

300
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:07.480
you know what I'm saying like it's
playful, it's not whatever, and then

301
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:12.720
yeah, I mean, yeah,
I can see now. He also says

302
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:17.960
that as a child, he loved
fairy tales about people being eaten, and

303
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:22.400
he especially loved the story of Hansel
and Gretel being drawn to the cannibalistic witch.

304
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.039
Right, the witch like to fatten
up kids and then she'd eat them.

305
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:32.000
Loved it, He loved this.
And you know, here's let's think

306
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.960
about this for a second. Isn't
it interesting, even terrifying to think about

307
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.440
how much power adults, parents our
uncles in this case, have over children

308
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.440
and how they develop, even if
we don't realize it. Those little things

309
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.960
we do as adults are little isms, or the games we play, the

310
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:53.440
books we read, the words and
phrases we use, completely innocent things.

311
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:59.880
How those things could be easily misconstrued
and twisted in such a way that they

312
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:04.200
can could negatively impact a little developing
brain forever. I mean, look at

313
00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:08.119
Issy in the monster game, the
fairy tales, his mother's feeding. None

314
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:12.720
of these things were done with bad
intentions. Yet look what Issy remembers and

315
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:17.839
the feelings those actions stirred in him
even as a child, and how he

316
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:22.559
turned out. I'm no child psychologist, but man, I guess we never

317
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.680
really know how much we're fucking up
our kids scared. No, Nope,

318
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.359
you'll never know either. Some stuff
most people, most parents will never know,

319
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.759
like they won't have these signs like
oh my kids eating people. I

320
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.119
know where I fucked up. Like
it's more that's clearcut. You can go

321
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:41.519
back and like red flag there,
okay, red flag there. Oh yeah,

322
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.480
that eighth birthday. Of course I
could I forget. I could I

323
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.799
forget that day. But but this, you know, like most of the

324
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.279
most people don't know, like how
they're fucking them up, Like it's right

325
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.960
that one thing you said because you
were just annoyed and was off hand,

326
00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:00.920
but it's forever embedded in that child's
brain. In the adults side, yes,

327
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:04.160
absolutely, And as a parent,
that terrifies me. You know,

328
00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:07.640
right, you don't know, you
probably already instilled them with shad that they

329
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:11.200
you rather not, but no doubt, no control, You had no way

330
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.559
to know how it happened. Right, Yeah, it'll come out in therapy

331
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.480
in like thirty years, you know, and your deathbed they'll tell you mag

332
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:22.319
with that one fucking time that yeah, it is terrifying. It's a little

333
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:29.000
terrifying anyway. Is. He also
talks about the media and its representation of

334
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:33.759
Western women for contributing to his budding
cannibalistic fantasies. Oh Hollywood, huh,

335
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:40.119
Yeah, the media always portraying Western
women is healthy, vibrant, tall,

336
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:48.200
voluptuous, fit, beautiful, exactly
everything everything is He Sagawa wasn't in his

337
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:55.079
mind, and he's probably right,
sickly creepy. Is he could never land

338
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:59.319
a woman like that, a Western
goddess, a woman with which he could

339
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:04.079
develop the kind of physical intimacy that
could temper, maybe even completely douse his

340
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:10.200
cannibal desires. So is he decided
that the only way he could have a

341
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:15.039
beautiful woman was to eat her.
And with that, for Issi Sagawa,

342
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:22.279
cannibalism and sexual desire became dangerously mixed
one and the same. To give an

343
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:27.160
example of how cannibalism and sex mixed
into a single monstrous urge, here's a

344
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:36.200
quote from Issy normalizing his desire to
consume flesh. Quote. It's simply a

345
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:41.640
fetish. For example, if a
normal man fancied a girl, he'd naturally

346
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:45.839
feel desire to see her as often
as possible to be close to her,

347
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:49.039
to smell her and kiss her.
Right to me, eating is just an

348
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:55.759
extension of that. Frankly, I
can't fathom why everyone doesn't feel this urge

349
00:27:55.799 --> 00:28:00.319
to eat, to consume other people. End quote. Frankly, I can't

350
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:06.240
understand why someone would purposely break one
of society's most deep rooted taboos eating another

351
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:08.680
human. But hey, that's just
me. I mean I have that's the

352
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:11.880
same issue with other things that are
completely normal. Like I don't know why

353
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.759
this, why they want this?
Why would why would this type want this?

354
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:19.640
Exactly every time? But it's like
he treats it like that, like

355
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:25.160
not just like a fetish, but
almost like like a preference. It's like

356
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:27.960
like on his dating profile he wants
the little box that says Cannibal like he

357
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:30.480
wants it. He doesn't he wants
in normal life like that. That's how

358
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.240
he's talking about it. That's not
on Plenty of Fish. You can't check

359
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:37.039
that is that still on which I
don't know. I have no idea it's

360
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.359
wipe right for Cannibal. I don't
know if the fuck's going on wipe right.

361
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:44.920
So there's a lot of stuff going
on here, right, we have

362
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:51.079
it's these severe childhood ailments. We
have this idea of eating consuming equals health

363
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:56.880
games where the loser was cooked and
eaten cannibal like fairy tales in the media's

364
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:02.279
portrayal of Western women. The question
was he asked, was is he Sagawa's

365
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:07.759
obsession with eating human flesh created?
Was his environment to blame? Or was

366
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:12.279
is he Sagawa born a cannibal?
Was there something in the Sagawa DNA that

367
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:18.920
pretty much guaranteed is he would be
the ultimate sexual deviant? Now, of

368
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.279
course I don't have the answer,
and neither does is he. He doesn't

369
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:25.279
know why he turned out the way
he did, nor did the shrink.

370
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:27.759
Is he went to see at the
age of fifteen, to whom he confessed

371
00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:32.559
his urge to eat women. He
wanted to understand it, but the shrink

372
00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:36.319
pretty much just ignored him and sent
him on his way. After which is

373
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:41.839
he sank even deeper into himself and
into his fantasies. It's the whole nature

374
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.720
verse nurtured thing. Right, was
is he made a candle? Or was

375
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.119
he born a cannibal? And one
thing I can tell you is that if

376
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.440
he looks back at his childhood fondly. He says that his parents loved him

377
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:59.960
deeply and raised him lovingly. His
words, he never mentions anything specifically unusual

378
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.000
or dark happening to him as a
child that might have triggered such a dark

379
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:08.240
obsession within him. And at the
time in Japan, talking openly about sex

380
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:12.119
was taboo, so is he never
heard his parents talk about it. They

381
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:18.039
never even mentioned the word sex.
Unfortunately, the secrecy surrounding sex left is

382
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:22.559
the unprepared for changes that come with
growing older. For example, when he

383
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:26.559
got his first direction, he thought
something was wrong with them. Then he

384
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.640
was sick. He didn't know about
masturbation or even how to masturbate. He

385
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:37.000
had desires as every growing boy does, totally normal. He just didn't know

386
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:41.279
how to safely satisfy them, so
he let a dog satisfy them. Use

387
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.400
your imagination on that one. Yeah, but it's funny how he relates them

388
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:51.440
positively, Like how many how many
theorycillers would look back into the childhood,

389
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:53.720
whether or not they wanted to admit
it to themselves is very negative. It's

390
00:30:53.839 --> 00:31:00.319
very bad or or absence maybe,
or like they focus on the one ad

391
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:03.240
time in their famili's life versus you
know, maybe other good parts, you

392
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:11.799
know, but this guy is like
strangely more open and kind of the nicest

393
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:15.799
cannibal. I don't know, he's
very the nicest cannible, you know,

394
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:19.000
like he's just like, it's just
me, guys, bro, this is

395
00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.640
me, this is who I am. I want to chew you, you

396
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.240
know, like I don't know,
like it just seems over cool. I

397
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:26.839
don't know, not cool. It's
not cool, but he seems cool about

398
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:32.160
it. Like it's just it's weird, like to hear I kind of all

399
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.240
be like you, My life was
yeah, perfectly. Parents were great.

400
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:40.880
They raised me. Never you never
put those two together. So you know.

401
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.839
The strange thing here is, yeah, he let a dog satisfy him,

402
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:48.160
you know. But and that's when
is he says his sexual desires began

403
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.359
to distort, you know, after
this dog experience, they started twisting.

404
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.039
See, parents, talk to your
kids about sex, all of it.

405
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:59.720
Don't let them figure it out on
their own, or else they're going to

406
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.279
grow up to eat someone. I'm
kidding, of course, but I think

407
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:07.839
it's important kids know what to expect. Those feelings, desires, the bodily

408
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:12.039
changes are all normal, and most
importantly, they need to know the safest

409
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.240
way to deal with those things.
Ignoring isn't the answer, right, I'm

410
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:20.279
off my soapbox. But still,
in Issi's case, I have a really

411
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:25.200
hard time making the connection between him
letting a dog satisfy him to fucking full

412
00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:30.119
blown murdered necrophilia and cannibalism. I
just can't see that leap. How does

413
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:35.599
that leap come in? Now here's
something to think about, a little bit

414
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.880
of ooho. Hold on a minute. Information. Remember I mentioned very briefly

415
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:44.079
that Issy had a younger brother named
June. Yeah, June. Well,

416
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:46.319
as it turns out, June is
a little more than fucked up in the

417
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:51.759
old sex department too. You see, June grew up to be a hardcore

418
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.960
masochist. The only way he can
achieve pleasure is through his own extreme pain.

419
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.680
To get off, he does shit
like dab himself, burn himself,

420
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:06.519
or wrap himself in barbed wire,
those little razors tearing at his flesh making

421
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:08.319
him bleed. Yeah, like no
man's land. You know that's what they

422
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:13.359
put between right, Yeah, on
the d m Z, right on the

423
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:17.960
DMZ. Now to June, this
this is ecstasy. I swear to god,

424
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:22.079
It's like the fucking hell Raiser family
over here. But it's the same

425
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.680
thing with June Sagawa. He doesn't
have the slightest idea why he turned out

426
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:29.880
the way he did. Are we
gonna give them names? Like he'll raise

427
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:35.400
their names. There's the this girl
or this guy. There's a pinhead,

428
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:37.039
of course, there's there's so many
of them you can't give him names.

429
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:45.599
Yeah, Muncher and Monchy, right, and I'm sure flesh terror. I

430
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:52.200
don't know's it's like the creepy dark
version of the Christmas reindeer names. You

431
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:57.799
know, there's our Christmas tiant here
want I'm looking for one desperately and I

432
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:01.720
found one finally. You know,
the thing with with June makes a little

433
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:05.880
more sense, not to me personally, I'm just saying that the masochism thing,

434
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:07.360
there's a lot of that, a
lot more of that, a lot

435
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:14.280
more openness about that today than obviously
back then. But but you know that

436
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.719
adding that to with the nature of
like the repressed culture that they were in

437
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.159
makes sense that he would be that
extreme to himself with the with the bark

438
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:27.400
wire like you said, so like
it's like, yeah, nowadays, it's

439
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:32.840
like there's safer ways for sure,
not permanent damage kind of ways that people

440
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:37.760
find that's really interesting to read.
But like, yeah, it's more common

441
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:43.039
now, it's always been common,
but like it's where you come from originally.

442
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.880
Like that makes it either extreme bad
for you or not or not or

443
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:49.000
maybe not so bad for you,
depending with him, I think it is

444
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:52.960
pretty bad, but that's extreme.
Yeah anyway, No, but I mean,

445
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.760
what are the chances, right,
one brother killed and aid a woman,

446
00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.800
and the other can't come unless he's
an extreme pain nature nurture, right.

447
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:07.000
I just thought the fact that his
brother also developed something abnormal was incredibly

448
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:13.920
interesting. Okay, so if he's
walking around, he's going to school doing

449
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.360
his weird little thing. He actually
winds up attaining a master's degree in English

450
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.800
literature at a university in Tokyo and
nobody knows it. But all the while,

451
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:28.159
his urges to consume are just growing, and it's He's beast just couldn't

452
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:32.159
be contained anymore. It was time
to finally fulfill his ultimate dark desire.

453
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:38.480
You see, is he had become
absolutely obsessed with eating a Nordic or German

454
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:45.239
woman, tall, white, blonde
hair, blue eyes, just the epitome

455
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:52.039
of female physical perfection, right,
white meat, white meat exactly. And

456
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:59.199
it's while he's in Tokyo studying at
university that a beautiful, tall German woman

457
00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:05.800
catches his eyes. Actually, it
was her white thighs that really grabbed Issy's

458
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:10.000
attention. And that was it.
She'd be the one. Is he would

459
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:15.360
show her how much he loved her
by consuming her. But not Oliver.

460
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:20.119
Is He just wanted to slice off
a piece of her butt to eat.

461
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:24.480
That was it. Couldn't he just
have that little taste of creamy white butt

462
00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:30.159
meat now? One day, Isy
followed the woman home, and he stalked

463
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:37.079
her for a time, watching her
through her first floor apartment's windows. Undoubtedly,

464
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:39.639
Issy's thoughts would have caused the devil
to blush as he stood there,

465
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:45.599
salivating on the other side of the
window pane, watching his meal move about

466
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:50.719
and sleeping naked on the night.
Is he decided to make his move.

467
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:53.280
He waited until the women went to
bed, and then he snuck into her

468
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:58.360
apartment. His plan was to hit
the woman over the head with an umbrella,

469
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:01.360
knock her out, not kill her, just knock her out. Then

470
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:05.599
he would grab a knife from her
kitchen and secure the meat he was after.

471
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:12.079
Is he slowly snuck towards the woman's
bed. He loomed over her,

472
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:16.360
but he accidentally bumped into her with
his knee. The woman jumped up,

473
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:22.599
screamed ah, and jumped out of
bed and shoved these hes bitch ass down

474
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:30.079
to the floor. It's only four
nines. He fled, but he was

475
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:36.639
soon arrested and charged with attempted rape, the police completely unaware of is He's

476
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:43.199
true intentions. Now is He Sigawa
was never charged for this attempted rape because

477
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:47.000
his wealthy father Akira, paid the
woman off. He bribed her just to

478
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:52.239
go away, and she did.
Okay, I see that. I'll imagine.

479
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.039
Yeah, I was gonna say that. I didn't want to spoil that

480
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:59.760
part of the story because I knew
you were being serious. But like I

481
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:06.039
just lot of funny things the whole
time, like like an umbrella, yeah,

482
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:08.119
yep, that was yeah. I
think that was his own words.

483
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:12.000
And then when you were when you
were like talking about how he was salivating,

484
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:15.360
it's talking her and shit, I'm
imagining them with those sum those rows

485
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:20.519
things, but they's sharpened the knives
like he's getting oh, like the old

486
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:27.480
the barbers, old barbs, well, the chef uses to two different metal

487
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:29.960
prongs. I don't know what they're
called. Okay, I'm sorry. And

488
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:31.079
he does that king, king,
king, you know, before cutting into

489
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:35.039
the meat. I'm like, that's
what I'm imagining. While you're talking,

490
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:38.320
I'm like, I'm like, this
is a cartoon villain. Sorry. When

491
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:40.800
when I was scripting that part,
you know who I had in my mind,

492
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:45.559
the wolf from the Tom and Jerry
cartoons. That's a good one.

493
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:51.199
That's very good one. And they're
both are on the same size. Yeah.

494
00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:54.239
Now, so, so the father
came in, bribed the woman and

495
00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:58.239
she did, she went away,
and he wasn't charged. Now, imagine

496
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.360
what would have happened if is he
was charged? Would he have done time

497
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:07.280
and gotten the help he clearly desperately
needed. Would he have ever gone to

498
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:10.920
France? Would his victim still be
alive? Who knows? But the father

499
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:16.920
offering the bribe? Bad move,
bad bad move. Now, in April

500
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:22.239
twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven,
when he was twenty eight years old,

501
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:25.800
is he Sagawa left Tokyo and headed
to Paris. Whether he left on his

502
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:30.320
own accord or it was his father
encouraging him to go away, either to

503
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:35.000
let things calm down, or from
the embarrassment of having a son that was

504
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.719
a rapist waiting to happen, or
both. I'm not sure, but either

505
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:43.199
way, Paris is where is he
would become the cannibal he always wanted to

506
00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:49.360
be, was obligated to be,
as he put it, obligated. Now

507
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.480
in Paris Is he became a student
at Sorbonne University, working on a PhD

508
00:39:53.800 --> 00:40:00.360
in comparative literature. Dork, it's
here at the end. Oh, that's

509
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:04.119
a very that's a very uh bougie
school. It is a bougie school,

510
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:08.960
and it just seems like a bougie
major, you know. But it's here

511
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:15.519
at the university that Issy would meet
his victim. After an exhaustive run of

512
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:20.480
bringing prostitutes home to his apartment almost
every night with the very real intention of

513
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:24.159
killing and eating them. Fortunately,
Is he chickened out each time. He

514
00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:28.880
just couldn't go through with it.
That's when he set his sights on a

515
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:36.559
beautiful twenty five year old Dutch woman
and fellow student named Renee harteveldt Is.

516
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:39.519
He befriended Renee and the two spent
quite a bit of time together. She

517
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:44.519
ate dinner at as his apartment a
number of times, and at one of

518
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:49.840
these little dinner dates at Isy's apartment, is he actually tried to kill Renee

519
00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:52.480
when she wasn't looking, but the
gun he intended to use jammed, so

520
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:57.800
he gave up for the evening.
Wow. Still, he slowly built her

521
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.440
trust, and you can say that
is he and Rene became pretty good friends.

522
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:07.320
All the while, Renee had absolutely
no idea about Issy's true intentions for

523
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:14.360
the relationship, or that she had
already narrowly escaped death once. So on

524
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:17.840
the night of June eleventh, nineteen
eighty one, Issi Sagawa once again invited

525
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:23.079
Renee heart developed up to his apartment
for dinner and some schoolwork. He lied

526
00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:28.760
and told Renee that one of his
professors wanted some German poetry recorded. That

527
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:31.039
was the pretext. Is he used
to get Renee to his apartment that night,

528
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:37.800
that and dinner, and poor Renee
didn't suspect a thing. Issy chose

529
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:43.239
the poetry. Renee took a seat
at Issy's desk and began reciting the poetry

530
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:47.679
into a recorder. Her back was
to Issy, as Issy was smiling and

531
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:52.239
talking to her from behind. Unbeknownst
to Renee, he grabbed a twenty two

532
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.440
caliber long rifle. He took aim
and pulled the trigger and shot Renee right

533
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.440
in the back of the head,
close to the Really, she never saw

534
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:06.079
it come in. And that's probably
a good thing. Well yeah, I

535
00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:09.320
mean I guess. Oh man,
Okay, go ahead tell you that now

536
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:13.960
if he claims that. For a
few seconds after being shot, Renee kept

537
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:17.800
talking, but then she eventually collapsed
onto the desk and then fell to the

538
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:22.000
ground along with the chair shoes sitting
on is. He placed a towel under

539
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:28.000
her head and then undressed her.
And here's where we're going to get into

540
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:31.880
red band territory. If you're easily
offended or have a weak stomach, please

541
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:36.400
do yourself a favor skip ahead a
few minutes. Why are you still here's

542
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:38.280
my question. Why what are you
still doing here? Right? Because this

543
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:43.039
gets really ugly listeners, Okay,
I better not get any hate mail because

544
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:49.719
I'm giving you fair warning. This
next part is bad. After stripping Renee

545
00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:52.280
naked, is he had sex with
her corpse, and then he began to

546
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:57.599
feed on her. He had it
all planned out where he would start eating,

547
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:00.519
and he took pictures of the entire
process. Us and the pictures are

548
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:07.280
fucking disgusting. He started with her
butt because to Issy that meat looked most

549
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:09.800
delicious. It had to be the
right cheek, though not the left,

550
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:15.480
because the right cheek is further away
from the heart and would therefore bleed less.

551
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:19.679
Okay, obviously this isn't true.
Is he had no idea how the

552
00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:23.480
body works? It doesn't sound true. But if he said he wanted less

553
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:29.800
blood because blood frightens him, can
cannibals even be afraid of blood? I

554
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:31.599
don't know. Does he have that
Phobieah, there's a phobia with that right

555
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:36.360
called something that. Yeah, I'm
one hundred percent sure there is, I

556
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:39.360
just don't know the name of it. Yeah, that it never came out

557
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:43.639
and explicitly said he had a phobia
of blood. That was his own words.

558
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:45.880
I just I'm afraid of blood.
I didn't want it. What it's

559
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:50.719
so weird, Like, first,
I'm glad that he wasn't born that's tall

560
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:55.480
and muscular, and I'm glad because
I imagine he would be worse. The

561
00:43:55.519 --> 00:44:00.199
story will go longer, maybe with
other things, but like it's so weird.

562
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:04.119
It's so weird. Everything about him
is just so weird. Yeah,

563
00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:07.159
he comes, he's like he comes
by his he comes by his sins,

564
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:10.920
so honestly, I don't know what
to say. And then but he has

565
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:15.760
weird I know, it's like I
don't know, It's like I really love

566
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:20.599
bowling, but I can't stand uh, the sound of pins clacking right or

567
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:23.119
like people. I don't know people, but ah, it's so weird.

568
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:28.199
Yeah, yeah, I'm afraid of
blood. It had to be the right

569
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:32.519
cheek because that was farthest from the
heart. Yeah, sure, now is

570
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:37.880
He tried to just bite right into
Renee's butt, but he quickly realized that

571
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.440
the flesh is just too hard to
bite into. Oh yeah, it hurt

572
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:45.719
his little jaw. Is. He
decided to try a small fruit knife,

573
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.480
and even that didn't work, so
he gives up and heads to the market

574
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:53.159
to purchase a real knife, kind
of like a curved butcher knife. And

575
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:59.239
of course it works. Is he
slices through the cheek and immediately he's repulsed.

576
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:04.960
Instead of finding bright red meat like
he thought he'd find, he found

577
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.119
what he described as a yellow Indian
corn like substance. Instead, it's the

578
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:13.400
fat that he's seeing. Oh is
all we looked like damn my button.

579
00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:17.960
My Yeah, it's that description is
just so gross. Yeah, very very

580
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:22.280
grafic. He's got to cut much
deeper to get to the red meat that

581
00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:27.280
he desires. And in a documentary
I watched if he said he doesn't remember

582
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:30.320
if when he got to that meat
he cut off a piece of that red

583
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:32.880
meat or he just ripped it out
with his fingers. Doesn't matter, I

584
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:37.800
guess, because he got the meat
he wanted and he ate it. He

585
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:42.480
said it tasted like a nice roasted
pork. I'm never eating pork chops again,

586
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:45.519
and I love pork chops. I
ate it last night and fucked this

587
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:52.039
guy. From there. He continued
to cut and to eat. Some of

588
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:57.320
the meat he ate raw. Some
he cooked, like one of Rene's breasts,

589
00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:00.079
which he said swelled up while it
was being cooked, and when he

590
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.519
tried to eat it, it was
way too greasy, which he didn't like,

591
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.880
so he threw it away. And
some of the meat he ate seasoned

592
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:13.760
with salt and mustard. He said
the meat was best this way, cooked

593
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:20.360
and seasoned just right with the salt
and mustard. Rene's nose, her nose,

594
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:23.199
part of her lip, her whole
right thigh, nearly all of her

595
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:28.000
left thigh. I mean we're talking
down to the bone, nothing left,

596
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.400
Both of her breasts gone, and
of course the number he did on her

597
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:37.519
butt, and there's more. And
this is the thing, like you said,

598
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:39.920
asking, this guy's not ashamed or
afraid to talk about what he did,

599
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:45.079
no matter how disgusting or fucked up
and depraved it was now well to

600
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:50.280
him, it isn't. That's the
whole thing is disgusting. He cut out

601
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.559
and tried to eat renees anus,
but it smelled bed, so he fried

602
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:58.400
it up and tried again, but
it still smelled bed, so he threw

603
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:01.559
it away. He tried to eat
the clitterists right off the body, but

604
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:06.679
he couldn't do it because it stretched
like rubber. So again he cut it

605
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:09.440
out, fried it up, and
popped it into his mouth. It was

606
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:15.159
delicious, he said, it tasted
sweet. He masturbated with one of Renee's

607
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:20.079
severed hands. He played with their
intestines, and took hold of her bladder

608
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:25.679
in her womb. Nothing was left
undisturbed. Everything was violated. For three

609
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:31.239
days, Issy feasted on and desecrated
Renee, and whatever meat he didn't eat

610
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:37.599
the police would later find stacked up
in Issy's refrigerator. Now, as I

611
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:40.719
said, I was selective on what
photos I included in the show notes,

612
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:46.199
but one thing I did include is
a black and white photograph showing how Issy

613
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:52.119
laid out on paper plates a lot
of the meat he acquired from Renee,

614
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:55.440
about fifteen pounds in total. And
all I can say is that if you

615
00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:59.960
see this picture and you don't already
know what you're looking at, pieces of

616
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.800
a human, you'd probably look at
the picture and think, oh, nice

617
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:06.480
spread. We got a bunch of
steaks over here, some nice ham over

618
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:09.280
air, maybe some chicken breast.
But no, it's none of that.

619
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:14.519
It's a person. I mean,
we are bags of an infernal meal.

620
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:22.519
Now, after Rene's body became too
spoiled for Issy to enjoy, June is

621
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:27.119
really hot in Paris and there's no
air conditioning. You could literally smell that

622
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:32.199
sentence. He chopped her up in
his ba Yeah, after he was done

623
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:36.159
with her. He chopped her up
in his bathroom, removing her head,

624
00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:39.559
arms, and legs from the torso, and he placed the pieces into two

625
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:45.519
suitcases. Is He then called a
cab and requested to be brought to a

626
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:50.400
park near the university he attended.
When the cab driver showed up at Isy's

627
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:53.039
apartment. He helped Issy with the
suitcases. Remember this is a small little

628
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:58.239
guy. Right. When the driver
went to help Issy with the bags,

629
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:01.639
he commented how heavy the bags were, and he jokingly asked if if he

630
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:07.719
had a body in them? Awkward
is He said no, the bags were

631
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.960
filled with books. So the cab
brought him to the park and off Izy

632
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.000
went into the park with his bags. Now we know Issy's weak, right,

633
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:19.119
We've said that a bunch of times. So here he is walking through

634
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:22.400
the park struggling with these big suitcases. Mind you, it's light outside.

635
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:29.480
People literally saw this strange little man
first struggling with and then dumping his suitcases

636
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:32.559
by a lake. We're not talking
about a criminal mastermind here, listeners.

637
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:38.320
After if he dumped the suitcases by
the lake, he was too exhausted to

638
00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:43.559
push them into the lake, so
he kind of left him there. And

639
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:47.199
then he stopped and he watched the
sunset over the lake. He saw an

640
00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:52.719
old man walking with a child,
all these beautiful sunset colors, and he

641
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:57.239
just kind of stood there taking it
all in while he was mesmerized by the

642
00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:00.960
scenery. A stranger, a man
came up behind him, curious about the

643
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:07.280
suitcases, and the man asked all
these yells, to which Issy said no.

644
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:09.599
Now, if this he said they
were in fact his, the man

645
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:14.280
likely would have left the suitcases alone
and the rest of this story might have

646
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:17.880
been completely different. But because if
he claimed they weren't his, the man

647
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:23.960
of course opened the suitcase right and
inside he found bloody bed sheets. The

648
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:30.360
man yelled out murderer and in response, is he just walked away? Wait,

649
00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:35.679
as is Shakespeare in the park.
Yes, okay, he just walks

650
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:39.159
away. Now the police were called
and a call for witnesses was put out,

651
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:44.239
and quickly the cab driver stepped forward
and said, yeah, I picked

652
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:47.280
up a weird little Japanese guy carrying
suitcases, and I picked him up from

653
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:51.840
here in my words, not the
cab drivers, but pretty much that's how

654
00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:54.679
it went down. Obviously, it
didn't take the police long to find Izzy,

655
00:50:55.119 --> 00:51:00.199
and just four days later he was
arrested. Out he spent two years

656
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:05.800
in a French prison awaiting trial.
During this time he was analyzed by three

657
00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:10.079
different psychologists and they all deemed him
criminally insane. When is he finally went

658
00:51:10.119 --> 00:51:15.440
in front of a French judge to
be tried. The judge declared him legally

659
00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:20.079
insane and unfit to stand trial.
All the charges were dropped and he was

660
00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:25.599
to be held indefinitely in a French
mental institution. But before his treatment could

661
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:30.719
even begin, the French public went
crazy because this monster was being held in

662
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:36.880
their country and being supported on their
dying. Remember this was huge news in

663
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:42.559
Paris Is. He's face plastered all
across newspapers and in the media detailing every

664
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:46.000
little nasty piece of his crime.
Basically, the French people had spoken.

665
00:51:46.199 --> 00:51:50.960
They were not happy about Issy being
in their country, so he was deported

666
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:57.519
back to Japan. Right. There's
also some background talk about Issy's father stepping

667
00:51:57.559 --> 00:52:01.480
in and seriously greasing some palms in
order to get his son back. Yeah,

668
00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:05.440
in order to get his son back
home. But whatever the case is,

669
00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:07.599
he was sent back to Japan,
where he was remanded to a mental

670
00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:13.719
hospital in Tokyo. Now, Japanese
authorities had basically made up their minds that

671
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:17.960
Issy was not criminally insane. He
was evil, sure, but not insane.

672
00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:22.800
Instead, they believed he suffered from
a personality disorder, and because the

673
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:28.920
charges were dropped in France, Is
The's court documents were sealed, including information

674
00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:32.480
gathered from the psychiatrist, and therefore
the records could not be released to Japanese

675
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:37.920
authorities, so they had no choice
but to let Issi Sagawa free, so

676
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:45.039
again without receiving any treatment or help. After just fifteen months in the Tokyo

677
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:50.039
hospital, on August twelfth, nineteen
eighty six, Isi Sagawa checked himself out

678
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:54.360
of the hospital and he's been a
free man ever since. Just yeah,

679
00:52:54.360 --> 00:53:00.480
oh man, just barely three years
time for killing, raping and eating a

680
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:05.199
woman. Sweet lady. Justice must
have been on vacation. Talk about injustice,

681
00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:08.440
right, And almost as soon as
he checked himself out of the hospital,

682
00:53:09.159 --> 00:53:14.960
that's when the media started calling.
You see, the heinousness of Issy's

683
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:21.039
crimes made international news. Everyone wanted
to know who the little Japanese cannibal was

684
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:24.480
and how he was allowed to go
free. So his stature was probably the

685
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:28.199
main of famous too. The fact
that he looks probably harmless to a lot

686
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:35.239
of people, right so is he
capitalized on his newfound infamy as the Kobe

687
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:39.079
Cannibal. He traveled around doing the
lecture circuit and the talk show circuit,

688
00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:46.559
mesmerizing audiences with stories about his urges
and his crimes, both in great detail.

689
00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:52.800
He's been interviewed countless times and has
been featured in numerous documentaries. Some

690
00:53:52.880 --> 00:54:00.480
of the documentary titles are Cannibal Superstar
and The Cannibal That Walked Free, Excuse

691
00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:04.679
Me for Living? And my favorite
interview with a cannibal, Excuse Me for

692
00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:07.760
Living? As like really funny to
me? Fuck, I mean, you

693
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:12.760
can't make this ship up. You
know. He's a He's a prolific author.

694
00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:17.960
He's written twenty books, a lot
of them detailing firsthand his crime crimes.

695
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:23.599
For a while, he enjoyed,
I'll get this the privilege of being

696
00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:29.800
a restaurant critic, and he wrote
food reviews for a popular Japanese magazine called

697
00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:35.719
SPA. I'm guessing vegan restaurants right, Oh, of course I've left some

698
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:39.360
publicity photos from is his time as
a foodie in the show notes completely tasteless

699
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:44.960
stuff. Pun a cannibal getting paid
to do food reviews. Doesn't it make

700
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:47.880
it any weirder than that? That
is so that is that is a mark

701
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:54.000
of like man, that's like,
you can't put that in a fiction setting.

702
00:54:54.079 --> 00:54:57.320
No one will believe you. It
will be like this is too ridiculous.

703
00:54:57.320 --> 00:54:59.440
You can't put you can't put this
in that movie, you can't write

704
00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:01.039
this in this book. It's too
ridiculous. But it happened to no one

705
00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:06.599
will believe it exactly. So does
it get any weirder? For yes,

706
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:10.119
For of course it does. He
was paid to reenact the Little Red riding

707
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:15.960
Hood story on filming or he played
the wolf? Of course? Oh yeah,

708
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:21.519
And I've seen excerts. I've seen
excerts from this little film. It's

709
00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:25.480
it's horrible. It's just he's in
a wolf costume. It's ridiculous. He

710
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:29.719
was paid to eat raw meat on
film, the meats, juices, the

711
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:34.719
blood just dripping down his face.
Is he? Sagawa even has a short

712
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:38.639
run had a short run as a
porn star, and it's reported I haven't

713
00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:44.400
seen the films, but it's reported
that is he would fake biting his female

714
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:50.039
co stars while he reenacted scenes from
his actual crime. What kind of twisted

715
00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:54.719
shit is that? No clue now? In an excellent Vice documentary on Isy

716
00:55:54.760 --> 00:56:00.800
Sagawa, they featured a woman that
starred in a porn with Izzy and her

717
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:06.480
reaction after she's told and shown.
Remember, is he photographed his crimes?

718
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:10.320
After she was told and shown what
is he had done by is he himself

719
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:15.960
after they had sex? I mean
talk about exploitation. Yeah, this poor

720
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:20.119
what it was really uncomfortable to see. Yeah, that's that sounds really bad

721
00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:22.519
and like it sounds like it.
I'm sure it's still done today. But

722
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:27.880
one of those things that like which
is so normalized probably back then. Yeah,

723
00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:30.440
you know what I'm saying, Like
it's probably like a very common common

724
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:34.599
thing, especially because you go down
into the more gray areas of society like

725
00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:37.360
pornography, Like, yeah, I
both can see it and like it's so

726
00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:40.320
fucked up to hear it though,
Yeah, yeah, and they show you

727
00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:45.880
this poor woman was so clearly shaken
and visibly upset for having just fucked a

728
00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:52.119
literal monster, right, And is
He's done a lot of art. He

729
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:55.800
claims to have a manager that sells
his paintings internationally, and I gotta say

730
00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:00.559
he is quite the artist. A
lot of his paintings are actually really good.

731
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:04.599
You can find him online check them
out. Really an Oscar, You'll

732
00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:08.840
like this one. Is He published
his own grotesque manga book featuring pictures that

733
00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:13.960
he drew of the crimes he committed. Now I did check this out.

734
00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:16.719
It's really gross shit. And of
course I left some snippets of is He's

735
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:21.079
manga in the show notes, Oscar, what did you think of the manga?

736
00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:22.199
I mean I didn't read any of
them, obvious, any buyer or

737
00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:25.239
anything. I'm not going to either. Usually manga, I have to I

738
00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:29.079
have to like the art style,
and I don't like this kind of style.

739
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:30.440
I don't thing. Yeah, so
you've seen but you've seen the pictures.

740
00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:35.039
Yes, I've seen pictures. Yeah. I mean, I'm not God,

741
00:57:35.079 --> 00:57:37.320
I'm not a fan. But that
obviously the material and wait in the

742
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:42.960
fact that you know where the materials
from definitely adds to the yes, novelty

743
00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:47.239
of it. Absolutely a different kind
of pun for you now. Thankfully,

744
00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:52.840
eventually, the media hype surrounding the
Kobe Cannibal died out, or more like

745
00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:58.360
dried up. Is He lost both
of his parents in two thousand and five,

746
00:57:58.599 --> 00:58:02.760
which hit him incredibly hard. And
after the no natural oh in the

747
00:58:02.800 --> 00:58:07.239
same the air wow, yeah,
oh wow, Okay, And after their

748
00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:09.559
deaths, is he paid off all
of his parents' creditors and then he just

749
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:15.920
kind of slipped away into nothingness.
In twenty thirteen, he suffered a cerebral

750
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:21.599
infraction which left him with permanent nervous
system damage. And today is he's seventy

751
00:58:21.639 --> 00:58:24.840
two years old, living alone somewhere
in the suburbs of Tokyo, and he's

752
00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:30.800
quite ill. It's reported that he
also suffers from diabetes, and that he

753
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:36.320
has had two heart attacks in the
year twenty fifteen. Today is he has

754
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:42.280
no job, no friends, no
money, hardly any publicity, and the

755
00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:45.960
only one that ever shows up anymore
is his freaky brother June June and the

756
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:51.320
odd caregiver here and there. He's
now basically a man waiting to die.

757
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:57.320
And it's it's really unclear if is
he is truly finished with his flesh eating

758
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:01.679
obsession, even though he is old
and quite infirm. I mean, it's

759
00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:06.440
highly unlikely he could ever pull something
like that off again what he did to

760
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:10.760
Renee, but it's not without wanting. In an article published on all That's

761
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:15.800
Interesting dot Com in August twenty twenty
one, so just a few months ago,

762
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:21.559
is he said, quote the desire
to eat people becomes so intense in

763
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:27.079
and around June when women start wearing
less and showing more skin. Now keep

764
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:30.199
in mind this is August twenty twenty
one. The quote goes on, quote,

765
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:34.480
just today, I saw a girl
with a really nice dairy air on

766
00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.400
my way to the train station.
When I see things like that, I

767
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:42.559
think about wanting to eat someone again
before I die. What I'm saying is,

768
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:45.519
I can't bear the thought of leaving
this life without ever tasting that dairy

769
00:59:45.559 --> 00:59:50.920
air that I saw this morning or
her thighs. I want to eat them

770
00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:54.039
again while I'm alive, so that
could at least be satisfied when I die.

771
00:59:54.800 --> 01:00:00.000
End quote. See, there's no
shred of remorse here. He's completely

772
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:02.039
he opened and honest. I mean, it makes sense that it's tracks with

773
01:00:02.119 --> 01:00:06.679
everything he said before. Yeah,
And I guess you got to respect that

774
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:09.039
just a little bit in his honesty. I don't know. I mean I

775
01:00:09.159 --> 01:00:14.360
do because I mean, I mean, I'm not saying yeah. It's one

776
01:00:14.360 --> 01:00:15.679
of those weird things when people say, like, I agree with anything a

777
01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:22.239
bad person does, but like he
is, he has never not been forthcoming.

778
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:27.679
It's so weird. You know,
I have to say something positive about

779
01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:30.480
that, you know. Yeah,
And to this day is he Sagawa has

780
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:37.599
never really shown any significant remorse for
killing and eating Renee Heart developed his friend

781
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:40.199
right one time, he did say
that the only thing he was really sorry

782
01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:45.239
for was not being able to eat
Renee while she was actually still alive.

783
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:50.280
Really, so he wanted to be
like more vicious about it, like because

784
01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:52.679
the live is you know, it's
like when you said before, like,

785
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:54.800
yeah, you know he raped there, but I mean he was it was

786
01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:58.840
not clearly actually, so he didn't. I mean, it's raping a corpse,

787
01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:00.679
but you know, technically it's not. And there's a big difference.

788
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:05.400
Like I really rather not the victim
feel I would rather not them go through

789
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:09.199
it at all. But you know, it's it wasn't kind of nicer or

790
01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:14.599
not nice, but nicer that she
didn't feel any of it, you know,

791
01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:16.480
thank god. But I mean he
wanted her alive though, right,

792
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:22.840
And maybe maybe the fact that they
bonded, right, maybe it leads to

793
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:27.400
him not its harder to kill or
do something to a live than than death.

794
01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:30.679
I don't know. Maybe I think
I think to imagining his ultimate thing

795
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:36.119
was to eat living meat, right, living at that flesh still alive.

796
01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:39.440
You know, he never got the
ultimate thing he wanted, apparently not high

797
01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:46.880
maybe the ultimate bite, the ultimate
meal. Mm hmm. Now to his

798
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:52.000
own demise Cicago, Sigago went on
record tauntingly, smugly saying, quote,

799
01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:55.960
I would like to invite any woman
who wants to kill me to step forward,

800
01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:00.320
beautiful women only, That would be
the ideal way for me to die.

801
01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:05.079
Maybe they could shoot me up with
morphine so they don't feel any pain.

802
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:09.000
Although I guess pain is part of
the pleasure. Dying instantly is boring,

803
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:15.039
so I want to savor the process
of being killed. An alternative would

804
01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:20.079
be to drowned in female saliva.
Wouldn't it be wonderful to be covered all

805
01:02:20.119 --> 01:02:23.159
over in women's spit? If I
could die drowning in it, that would

806
01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:28.599
be my ultimate dream come true.
I'm a cowardly man who killed another person,

807
01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:31.840
yet I can't face killing myself,
So I guess dying at the hands

808
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:37.039
of a woman would be my way
to redemption. End quote. It kind

809
01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:38.400
of sounds like it would be,
though, although I would say, then,

810
01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:43.000
maybe have a family member of the
victim kill him instead of any woman.

811
01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:49.760
But whatever, what a weird there's
no way to describe it. I

812
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:53.159
mean, he's so like, it's
so it's beyond honest. He's like,

813
01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:57.800
I fucked up. I should I
should revenge should be taken on me.

814
01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:00.360
Guys, this is my offer.
What who does that? I mean,

815
01:03:01.159 --> 01:03:05.880
again, weird kudos I'm giving him. I don't want to. I'm just

816
01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:12.000
saying I don't support this, but
damn so weird. And for me,

817
01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:15.519
the saddest thing about this whole story, this whole unbelievable story, is that

818
01:03:15.559 --> 01:03:22.440
this poor innocent young woman, Renee
Hart developed she gets totally lost in the

819
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:25.559
Sawa circus. God, yeah,
everyone, every victim like that happens there.

820
01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:30.320
Yeah, there's hardly any mention of
her online at all, outside of

821
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:35.400
being Issy's victim and the horrendous crime
scene photos. There's no mention of her

822
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:38.280
family, her hopes, her dreams. I can't even begin to imagine what

823
01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:42.800
her family went through. Nothing,
there's nothing. She's totally overshadowed by this

824
01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:47.280
creepy little monster, totally used and
thrown away literally for this dickhead's pleasure.

825
01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:52.000
That's how she's become. That's her
legacy, and it's a fucking shame.

826
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:58.320
Yeah, for sure. Finally,
I'll end this episode with yet another quote

827
01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.320
from Issy himself, telling you this
clown is so quotable. He's the Winston

828
01:04:01.400 --> 01:04:05.639
Churchill of cannibals. Cannibals. You
know how in chu Jow he's like so

829
01:04:05.719 --> 01:04:10.159
quught away He's got like fifty quotes
a day about when when he was in

830
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:14.039
power. I'm like, yeah,
sorry, yeah, So this quote is

831
01:04:14.079 --> 01:04:19.039
from that Vice documentary I mentioned earlier. Quote. Sometimes I wonder why I

832
01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:25.079
did such a horrible thing. Maybe
it's because I came from another planet or

833
01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:29.840
another dimension and I accidentally fell to
Earth like a meteorite, disguised as a

834
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:32.880
baby crying on the street. My
mother walked by and took pity on me.

835
01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:36.960
I must have come from a place
of cannibals, and I'm the only

836
01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:46.239
one of my kind who exists on
this planet. End quote. Yeah,

837
01:04:46.440 --> 01:04:49.360
what do we need to heat?
I mean the whole alien thing? Or

838
01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:54.000
there you know a place full of
cannibals. I mean in nature there are

839
01:04:54.039 --> 01:04:57.800
that too, and insects especially other
things too. They have been known to

840
01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:02.719
doing that. Dude, even like, no, it wasn't no, I

841
01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:05.280
almost got that wrong. I'm glad
I didn't mention the animal, But there

842
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:10.119
are others that do that, and
they have done that either to survive or

843
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:13.079
because they didn't want the kid.
It could be deformed, there's so many

844
01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:15.800
reasons why that happens nature, and
that's the way he treats it. It's

845
01:05:15.800 --> 01:05:18.679
like nature, it really is.
And this what makes me feel like it

846
01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:21.239
is not so much nurture. It's
just that nurture didn't stop it. That's

847
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:26.400
the problem. Nature didn't probably enhanced
it accidentally and did not stop it.

848
01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:29.519
Did not know the science, did
not imagine this could ever happen. But

849
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:32.400
I feel it's like it's always been
nature. So it was born wanting this,

850
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:35.960
like the way you're born gay or
you're born whatever, you know,

851
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:41.079
Like it's not a choice, you
know. So is there a going on

852
01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:43.679
that? No, because I don't
have the answer, R But I tend

853
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:45.639
to lean more towards nature as well. But what does that mean? Does

854
01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:49.719
that mean there's a fucking cannibal gene? I don't think it works that way.

855
01:05:50.039 --> 01:05:55.119
It works the same way alcoholism can
be translke can be genetic, you

856
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:58.000
know what I'm saying, Like,
I don't know if this is gene,

857
01:05:58.199 --> 01:06:01.280
but we know this is not right, where like alcoholism and family and history

858
01:06:01.639 --> 01:06:06.440
can be passed down and can be
more susceptible future, right, So like

859
01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:10.920
that, I think it's that I
think it's that, you know, addiction,

860
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.559
but a different type, whatever difference
that is between a cannibal and alcohol.

861
01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:17.039
This is this guy has the other
one into the letter or the former.

862
01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:23.039
What about his brother June? So
I mean this goes I mean it's

863
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:27.079
probably fits not more in hand in
hand about this this family in general maybe,

864
01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:30.960
And you add the repression, and
you add the fact that you know,

865
01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:33.679
no psychologists until it's way too late
and there's no help. There's no

866
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:38.280
talk about it at all because of
repression and times and we had all this

867
01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:41.480
stuff and probably they were cloistered and
sheltered when they shouldn't have been. There's

868
01:06:41.639 --> 01:06:45.119
life is not throwing enough fucking curveballs
at him to figure things. I don't

869
01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:46.679
know what I'm just saying. It
seems like nurture didn't help at all,

870
01:06:46.719 --> 01:06:50.400
It's my point. And you know, the life didn't do it for him,

871
01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:55.360
and but I mean they still came
out like I'm pretty sure June doesn't

872
01:06:55.400 --> 01:06:57.920
hurt anybody with his own thing.
That's the whole point here is himself.

873
01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:02.719
But like it's like I'm sure that
if there's a way to do it like

874
01:07:03.239 --> 01:07:08.679
honestly and as forthcoming as possible.
He will do that. He would approach

875
01:07:08.679 --> 01:07:11.199
a woman and ask, can I
eat you for a while? I just

876
01:07:11.320 --> 01:07:15.719
he knows that will never happen.
Yeah, it's just a weird, honest

877
01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:18.840
murderer. Such a strange story,
isn't it. Yeah, it's a sad

878
01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:24.519
story too, disgusting, sad,
strange, all the above. So I

879
01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:29.079
want to ask, have you ever
thought of eating a person? No?

880
01:07:29.519 --> 01:07:31.760
No, I have not. Yeah
I haven't either. It's never like a

881
01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:36.039
real thing. Would you eat a
person? Yeah, so it always comes

882
01:07:36.119 --> 01:07:40.559
up, you know when you think
about Like I've had girlfriends ask that too,

883
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:45.360
and when they get weird. My
girlfriends get weird. If I were

884
01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:47.480
stocked, if I were stuck in
a mountain something, would you eat me?

885
01:07:47.599 --> 01:07:50.760
I'll be like, yeah, I'm
gonna meet you. Things like that,

886
01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:54.199
you know, I don't know.
Girlfriends ask me the way things.

887
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:57.280
But in general, yeah, you
think of the Donner Party, I understand

888
01:07:57.320 --> 01:07:59.599
what they went through. You think
of that soccer team I think it was

889
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:04.719
or Rugby. Sorry, yeah,
I understand. I understand for sure.

890
01:08:04.719 --> 01:08:11.280
There's a there's a few, more
than a few. I was the guy

891
01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:15.199
who did the Raven stories that that
involves cannibalism, you know, as a

892
01:08:15.279 --> 01:08:19.039
labs resort. You know, so
it's not uncommon. But like what I

893
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:24.560
in those situations, I would an
extreme So in extreme life threatening situations,

894
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:27.880
you would have no problem eating a
bit, No problem, I mean I

895
01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:30.680
would it would be morally problems,
No, it would be problem, but

896
01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:32.960
like I have to do it,
okay, So you would have a moral

897
01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:36.159
objection to it, but you know
you have to give this to survive.

898
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:42.199
I'm sure it'll be gross too.
Yeah, I can't imagine it. I

899
01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:45.600
mean the way he described him.
You know, what's the name? See,

900
01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:49.199
this is bad. I forgot a
name, Renee, him describing how

901
01:08:49.239 --> 01:08:53.159
Renee tasted good and bad. I'm
like, yeah, I don't know.

902
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:56.359
If I make a palette of it, I don't know. I don't think

903
01:08:56.359 --> 01:09:00.159
I'll have a review over my crewmate
or whatever I'm in whatever situation, but

904
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:04.279
like, yeah, I mean I
would eat See for me, I don't

905
01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:09.039
know it because I've had friends asked
this before, we've played this game before,

906
01:09:09.159 --> 01:09:13.960
would you, And I think for
me, it would come down to

907
01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:17.000
where I'm at in life, Like
if I'm an eighty year old man and

908
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:19.479
I got half a foot in the
grave, anyway. Hey, I would

909
01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:24.520
lay down and die before eating a
person. I'd go to the Pearly Gates

910
01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:28.159
with a clear conscience knowing that I
didn't eat a motherfucker. I'm safe,

911
01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:31.960
right. But if I'm my age
now and I have a wife and young

912
01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:34.960
kids that you have to go back
to and I have to go back to,

913
01:09:36.039 --> 01:09:41.119
I would see myself, yes,
partaking in Yeah. But don't you

914
01:09:41.119 --> 01:09:45.119
think that the Pearly Gates have bylaws
to a lot for that in the emergencies.

915
01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:48.560
I don't know. I think they
would wagh. I mean maybe they

916
01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:50.319
would wait at that point. I
don't know. I don't have to do

917
01:09:50.399 --> 01:09:54.600
anything. I mean, okay,
that's a different question. That would be.

918
01:09:55.359 --> 01:09:57.920
That's my thinking as of right now. You know, if I'm if

919
01:09:57.960 --> 01:10:01.399
I'm old and I'm dying anyway,
I'm going clean. I'm just laying down

920
01:10:01.399 --> 01:10:05.079
and die. But if I'm if
I got stuff going on, you need

921
01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:10.680
to get back to my family,
Let's do it. I do it.

922
01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:15.479
Yeah. I mean for me,
it's like it's about myself. So I

923
01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:16.920
want to live or not. You
know, I'm not saying it's fun,

924
01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:21.880
but like I want to live,
and chances are like in the extreme situations,

925
01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:25.680
you would, even if you do
it stupidly and you fail, you

926
01:10:25.720 --> 01:10:29.159
would do what you can to stay
alive. Like any dog, if it's

927
01:10:29.239 --> 01:10:32.000
dying, it will defend itself before
getting killed. You know. Like it's

928
01:10:32.039 --> 01:10:35.600
like that, Like I would kill
probably the biggest guy too, so he

929
01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:40.840
won't kill me. Well you've really
thought about this, No, I'm just

930
01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:45.119
saying that's in this situation. I'm
I've always been the smaller budgy your guys,

931
01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:46.479
So I'm like, I'm not gonna
take chances, but no, big

932
01:10:46.479 --> 01:10:53.479
fucking but take him out first,
established dominance and eat the most out of

933
01:10:53.520 --> 01:10:56.560
one person. There you go.
See, I'm trying to save for but

934
01:10:56.680 --> 01:10:59.479
I don't have to kill the next
person. We'll get saved before the you

935
01:10:59.560 --> 01:11:04.079
know. That's saying, gotta think
about it. It's interesting. You know,

936
01:11:04.119 --> 01:11:10.439
hopefully, God God willing we never
have to experience this. Yeah,

937
01:11:10.479 --> 01:11:14.119
you know, it's interesting to think
about. It's very right. When people

938
01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:16.680
die of thirst and or hunger,
it is usually because you're a prisoner of

939
01:11:16.720 --> 01:11:19.760
war or in prison of general or
whatever, kidnapped in some way, you're

940
01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:24.520
shackled by some serial killer or like, or you're on the desert or you're

941
01:11:24.520 --> 01:11:27.039
by yourself, or you're destitute.
In some fashion, you're by yourself.

942
01:11:27.079 --> 01:11:30.520
Though it's rare to be by yourself
and starving. I mean it's right to

943
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:32.960
be with people. Sorry and starving
and stuck with people. It's like dinner

944
01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:38.239
party situation. Well, you know, it's very you win the lottery before

945
01:11:38.319 --> 01:11:44.199
that happens, right, basically what
I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah, it's

946
01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:46.199
a fun story, interesting story.
I like how it short and sweet and

947
01:11:46.199 --> 01:11:50.279
not I don't mean that in a
punny way. Yeah, it was nice.

948
01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:54.319
I gotta tell you, there was
a few times writing this script that

949
01:11:54.439 --> 01:11:58.640
I literally got a little sick thinking
about how am I gonna phrase this,

950
01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:01.079
how Im'm gonna write this, rewriting
sentence, you know, about certain things

951
01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:03.840
he did, and it kind of
made me nauseous. Man. And a

952
01:12:03.880 --> 01:12:08.279
few nights ago, we were doing
it even though it's ice cold out.

953
01:12:08.279 --> 01:12:11.960
I stole barbecue on the back deck
and we had a couple different people over,

954
01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:15.439
and I had different cuts of meats
on a tray. I had some

955
01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:17.760
filets, I had a ribbi,
I had some pork chops, and you

956
01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:20.199
know, because I can never cook
a single fucking meal here at my house,

957
01:12:20.199 --> 01:12:23.960
because everyone eats something different. And
that's just the kind of guy I

958
01:12:23.960 --> 01:12:27.600
am. Make picky. That's very
picky, very picky, And that's the

959
01:12:27.640 --> 01:12:30.239
type of guy and father I am
where I'll make everyone their individual dinner.

960
01:12:30.279 --> 01:12:32.800
So I had this whole tray of
meat, you know, the filets and

961
01:12:32.840 --> 01:12:36.359
the ribbi still had blood kind of
at the bottom of the plate that I

962
01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:41.880
had them all on, and I'm
tonging them onto the grill. And I

963
01:12:41.920 --> 01:12:45.399
did get nauseous looking at that meat
and thinking about because I've just been thinking

964
01:12:45.399 --> 01:12:48.760
nothing about is he Sigala for the
last couple of weeks doing this script.

965
01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:53.399
And I did get I made myself
nauseous, Like I looked at that meat,

966
01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:56.039
and I thought of that picture which
you could see in the notes,

967
01:12:56.039 --> 01:12:59.119
the one I called the infernal meal. That's all I can think about,

968
01:12:59.159 --> 01:13:01.680
man, And I didn't want to
eat it anymore. Yeah, I can

969
01:13:01.760 --> 01:13:08.399
understand that. So anyway, listen, a happy holiday, Merry Christmas.

970
01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:15.319
Listeners. On that note, have
a fun meal with your family. Maybe

971
01:13:15.319 --> 01:13:16.680
you want to go vegan this year, I don't know, but not.

972
01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:21.239
We hope you enjoyed the episode and
we will catch you in the new year.

973
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:26.720
Oh yeah, and the New Years
better anyway, on the flip side

974
01:13:26.720 --> 01:14:00.520
of this year, I'll see you
that Hello, Hello, how are you?

975
01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:05.960
Why are you laughing? I'm still
in shock. I'm still in disbelief.

976
01:14:06.279 --> 01:14:09.760
Do I look that bad in the
morning, my morning? I know

977
01:14:09.800 --> 01:14:12.640
you've had a whole day already,
but like, goddamn, but dude,

978
01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:15.399
I literally think it's been years since
I've actually seen you in the sunlight.

979
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:24.239
It's so exaggerating, all right on
Halloween, bitch, Oh true, true,

980
01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:26.439
sure, yeah, you're right,
it does feel that way. I

981
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:31.000
just feel like our friendship is exclusively
a night friendship. Yeah, oh yeah.

982
01:14:31.119 --> 01:14:34.079
It's like, uh, it's like, you know, you hear stories.

983
01:14:34.199 --> 01:14:38.199
I mean, I'm sure you had
these because you're you were delinquent when

984
01:14:38.199 --> 01:14:41.760
you have like friends that do drugs
a lot, or you're connect with drugs,

985
01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:45.520
like you see them you like,
you never see them are in school,

986
01:14:45.720 --> 01:14:49.159
You'll never see them like in the
daytime or with your parents. You're

987
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:54.399
just gonna see those fuckers at night
at some house party, right pretty much

988
01:14:55.399 --> 01:14:59.760
in the daytime they look like pale
versions of themselves. You're a vampire.

989
01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:06.600
H ah okay, oh my god, m hm. So unfortunately again,

990
01:15:06.640 --> 01:15:11.039
I'm under a time crunch. I
gotta be done for Nico. Yes,

991
01:15:11.239 --> 01:15:14.560
yes, of course, let's just
get fine, don't do it. Let's

992
01:15:14.560 --> 01:15:26.079
get a sip and a vpe mm
hmm about my emergency big mug, Christmas

993
01:15:26.119 --> 01:15:32.920
smug. That's like huge, Oh
dude, if you use the smaller ones,

994
01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:35.199
but then I just refill them.
But like, no, I don't

995
01:15:35.199 --> 01:15:42.439
have to feel all right, let's
do this in five recording. Yes,

996
01:15:45.279 --> 01:15:51.039
man, Okay, look do I
sound gaggy? No? No, no,

997
01:15:51.119 --> 01:15:57.279
you look very vibrant. You look
very awake that it's all front lying

998
01:15:57.319 --> 01:16:01.119
to me, ready to rape the
world. I don't put don't put in

999
01:16:01.119 --> 01:16:10.359
the optics beat the world? What
could he mean? What is he tendler

1000
01:16:10.520 --> 01:16:15.079
the world? What's so bad?
And word the world? What did he

1001
01:16:15.239 --> 01:16:24.520
say? Everyone's wonning? Why would
he beat that? Why would be you

1002
01:16:24.560 --> 01:16:27.800
know that's that's that's how that would
go. You know, sometimes some things

1003
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:30.239
are beat and you're like, what
was the bad word in that part?

1004
01:16:30.520 --> 01:16:33.439
You know you have noticed that in
movies and you're like, what what do

1005
01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:36.000
you say? Fuck? Was it
fuck? It didn't sound like it was

1006
01:16:36.039 --> 01:16:39.760
fuck? And then like you could
tell, I'm like, what was it?

1007
01:16:40.079 --> 01:16:42.960
What? Did he say fuck?
Like, did you say, oh,

1008
01:16:43.039 --> 01:16:45.720
they say the C word. You're
like trying to figure it out.

1009
01:16:45.720 --> 01:16:49.600
You know what drives me nuts about
movies everything? And I want to I

1010
01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:54.800
want to find out why this is. If people are talking on the phone

1011
01:16:54.800 --> 01:16:58.520
in movies, they never say goodbye. Did you ever notice that ever?

1012
01:16:59.279 --> 01:17:01.800
Yeah, yeah, it's because most
of them. It's because most movies ninety

1013
01:17:01.800 --> 01:17:06.279
percent of movies and American movies are
made in LA And you're the way you're

1014
01:17:06.319 --> 01:17:11.560
talking is that it's midwestern nice.
You think you really think that's what it

1015
01:17:11.640 --> 01:17:14.760
is. I kind of think it
is that. So you've noticed this,

1016
01:17:15.399 --> 01:17:17.439
Oh yeah, they never like I'm
always just saying goodbye or if I'm talking

1017
01:17:17.439 --> 01:17:19.920
to family, love you. First
of all, I can show you a

1018
01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:24.640
good compilation of black of people saying
goodbye in on the phone. There's there's

1019
01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:28.720
a lot of them. It's just
that there's so little compared to the great

1020
01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:30.199
majority. They don't say goodbye.
They just want to get through it.

1021
01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:33.840
Like it's yeah, I don't know. I don't know why either. It's

1022
01:17:33.880 --> 01:17:38.640
just just nice. Just they don't
even think about it, and they're not

1023
01:17:38.720 --> 01:17:42.039
nice, Like they don't say goodbye
on their phones with their mom and their

1024
01:17:42.039 --> 01:17:45.600
agents and shit, I guess not. I always meant to google that to

1025
01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:47.239
see if there's actually something written about
it out there. I did. I

1026
01:17:47.239 --> 01:17:53.119
did a rewatch of West with the
West Wing this year, and that's on

1027
01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:56.720
HBO. And that's one thing I
noticed this time around is that there's a

1028
01:17:56.760 --> 01:17:59.600
lot of phone calls, you know, a lot of phone scenes all the

1029
01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:01.520
time. Every episode I think has
at least one, if not like more

1030
01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:08.359
so. And I noticed that they
don't say goodbye, and and it's like,

1031
01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:11.439
but that's even worse than that.
They even just cut themselves short.

1032
01:18:11.479 --> 01:18:15.199
Sometimes they're like they don't acknowledge that
the conversation has ended. The other person

1033
01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:18.840
just hangs up. Fuck this guy, I'm done with that. It feels

1034
01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:21.760
like it feels like, all right, you know, because they're so busy

1035
01:18:21.800 --> 01:18:26.199
and they're trying to save the country, so you know, it just feels

1036
01:18:26.239 --> 01:18:30.319
like no one says goodbye. Yeah, like we're too important to say goodbye.

1037
01:18:30.359 --> 01:18:35.199
We're too business. Yeah, burn
burning bridges, that's what they're doing.

1038
01:18:35.239 --> 01:18:38.119
If they did that with me,
I'm like, I'm not fucking calling

1039
01:18:38.119 --> 01:18:43.319
this guy exactly. This guy,
Fuck this guy. Yeah, all right,

1040
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:45.319
So I need to get that out
there. Yeah, yeah, No,

1041
01:18:45.399 --> 01:18:46.560
it's a good I like that.
It's a good I thought because I

1042
01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:53.800
thought of it before. I'm with
you. COT's with you? Okay,

1043
01:18:54.239 --> 01:18:58.199
all right? What was that?
It's my getting ready? Is you're getting

1044
01:18:58.239 --> 01:19:09.680
ready? All right? Ready for
the countdoign? Yes? Maybe? Well

1045
01:19:09.720 --> 01:19:13.920
I'm not. Yeah, that's fine. I don't want it. But otherwise,

1046
01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:16.479
do you think it came out okay? Yeah, I think it wants

1047
01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:19.680
something out better. It always happens
this way, doesn't it. Maybe we

1048
01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:23.520
should do that from now on,
is actually get together a dry run an

1049
01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:27.880
episode and then come back the next
day and actually record it. Yeah,

1050
01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:30.640
but that requires actual I mean doing
wrong. I love that idea. I

1051
01:19:30.680 --> 01:19:33.880
do like that idea, but it
requires extra time. Actually the whole extra

1052
01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:38.920
time. That's two days setup,
you know, recording, which is again

1053
01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:40.920
a fine, and I think it
is doable. I think it's you and

1054
01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:45.880
I were too manic. You know, I'm not very I'm not very what

1055
01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:47.640
do you call it calendar or that's
not the right word. I'm not very

1056
01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:51.000
organized with my time as much as
I want to be. And you don't

1057
01:19:51.039 --> 01:19:56.000
ever have time or were not ever
you know what I mean? Not as

1058
01:19:56.079 --> 01:19:57.920
much as you would like. It's
not as much as you would like.

1059
01:19:59.079 --> 01:20:00.479
So I think it's possible. I
think it's very doable. I think it's

1060
01:20:00.560 --> 01:20:04.880
an achievable goal completely. It's just
that a it took us a while to

1061
01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:10.279
get here too, and you even
suggest that and be it feels like it'll

1062
01:20:10.279 --> 01:20:13.600
be hard. But I think we
can do it. Okay, let's let's

1063
01:20:13.680 --> 01:20:16.560
plan for that if you can.
Yeah. The other thing I was thinking,

1064
01:20:16.720 --> 01:20:23.680
what are your thoughts on a new
intro bumper music for Patreon of your

1065
01:20:23.840 --> 01:20:27.880
completely your own creation, my own
creation. I'm not like a musician though

1066
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:30.239
to you, I don't know.
I don't Maybe you want to, might

1067
01:20:30.279 --> 01:20:32.960
want to play with it at it, take a crack at it, you

1068
01:20:33.479 --> 01:20:38.640
crack at it, take a crack
at it. It sounds like a drug

1069
01:20:39.039 --> 01:20:43.039
invented saying, right, like take
a crack at it, you do a

1070
01:20:43.119 --> 01:20:46.800
crack at it and just throws it
at crackad and then somehow that that said

1071
01:20:46.840 --> 01:20:50.359
something that meant something else. Well, just if you you know, see,

1072
01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:54.439
give you a chance to be creative, do something new for the intro.

1073
01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:57.720
Yeah, I just don't, I
know, never don't know anything about

1074
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:01.600
composition, don't know I mean nothing
real about it, but sure like like

1075
01:21:01.640 --> 01:21:04.039
an intro. You mean, like
an actual intro. Yeah, like remember

1076
01:21:04.039 --> 01:21:10.319
the one you used to do,
the the very first intro that we kept

1077
01:21:10.359 --> 01:21:14.640
for years. Yeah, actually remember
came with the number when the Devil gets

1078
01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:17.079
you know whatever. Do something like
that again, something cool like that,

1079
01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:20.680
just for Patreon. Yeah, okay, I'll go to correct see what you

1080
01:21:20.880 --> 01:21:23.279
I mean. If you don't answer, you don't have to. I just

1081
01:21:23.720 --> 01:21:25.560
no, no, no, I'm
just saying. I'm just saying. You

1082
01:21:25.560 --> 01:21:28.600
know, I'm not an actual music
you know,