WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:12.000 Callaroga Shark Media. Yeah. My next guest is Mike Chisholm. He hosts 2 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.640 The Letterman Podcast. Hi, I'm Johnny Mack with your daily comedy news. 3 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:20.039 I hope you caught my little lettermanesque tribute there. The Letterman Podcast celebrates the 4 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:24.559 incredible body of work done by broadcast legend David Letterman and company. On The 5 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:28.480 Letterman Podcast, Mike highlights folks who worked for Dave or were part of any 6 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:31.280 of his show's productions. People had an accounter with one of his shows, 7 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:36.679 or are enthusiasts with relevant discussion points or memories pertaining to any of Letterman's productions 8 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:40.679 or endeavors. I've split this one up into two parts. We did about 9 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:44.320 eighty minutes ross. I'll give you half today, half tomorrow. Here's my 10 00:00:44.359 --> 00:00:48.240 interview with Mike Chisholm. I wear many hats, and when I look at 11 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:51.240 my own stuff, For example, I host a comedy podcast, and as 12 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.320 I explain, I know a lot more about comedy than most people, but 13 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:59.119 the people that know more about it know a lot more than I do. 14 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:03.200 So I was prepping for this podcast, I was like, all right, 15 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:06.239 I know a lot about Letterman. I'm a big letterman fan. Let me 16 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:08.040 check out some episodes of Mike's pod, and then I was like, oh, 17 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:11.879 I'm out of my depth here. I can't talk writers and producers. 18 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:17.239 This guy knows his stuff. Props to you. Where did the podcast come 19 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:19.640 from? What gave you the idea? Oh? Man? Okay, So 20 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:23.760 there's a whole bunch of ways too that I can answer this question, because 21 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:26.159 the answer, of course, has a ton of depth to it. You 22 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:29.640 know, it all really started. I mean, my love of Dave has 23 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:33.200 gone ever since, you know, back to my first time. I can 24 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:38.840 remember seeing the show. I was eight nine years old, and I remember 25 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:45.040 the show that I saw, and the idea that adults could act silly was 26 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:49.159 so charming to me. I had always attracted to broadcasters. I love mister 27 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:52.359 Rogers. Growing up. I'm a Canadian, so hawking it in Canada was 28 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:53.799 always the thing to me. You know what. And it wasn't Bob Cole 29 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.319 and Harry Neil who called the play by play. It was Dave Hodge. 30 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:01.439 It was Ron McClean. I love Ron McClain. I liked pro wrestling, 31 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:07.079 so Vincent man Agrilla Monsoon I loved broadcasters. It fascinated me And the thing 32 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:10.759 about Dave is that he is not a pure comedian. He's got a razor 33 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.400 sharp wit, no doubt, He's a broadcaster. He's a broadcaster in comedy, 34 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:19.240 in variety. I don't like using that word so much, but he's 35 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.800 He would take all of the chaos and things going on around him and he 36 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.919 would almost treat it like he was a reporter. And I found that very 37 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.919 charming. When Dave was going to finish his run on late night television in 38 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:35.000 twenty fifteen, I knew I needed to go to New York and see him 39 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.719 one more time that night. I actually and you talk about this level of 40 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:40.599 knowledge that I have, Yeah, I read all the books. I did 41 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:45.240 my very best to try and learn as much as I possibly could about the 42 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:49.919 show behind the scenes. But I had an encounter with Dave right before before 43 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.039 the show that day April twentieth, twenty fifteen, where I was part of 44 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.960 the Q and A that he did before the show that picked. That moment 45 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.000 where he was looking back at Paul and using me. I like to say, 46 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:04.199 he used me as a comedy speedbag was immortalized. It was a picture 47 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:06.800 of that moment was taken and put into the New York Times into the New 48 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:09.879 Yorker, and just that moment was a seminal moment. After that, I 49 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:14.719 became friends with some of the people who worked behind the scenes online. Became 50 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:15.879 friends with some of the people who worked behind the scenes. And there's a 51 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:19.639 guy who you could see over my left. His name is Rich Sheckman. 52 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:23.280 That's a picture from his memorial. Rick Sheckman was a They call him the 53 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:27.599 film coordinator, but he essentially was an executive producer or a producer of Letterman 54 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:30.520 for thirty two years. He and I became a really became very close friends. 55 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:35.360 And I said, look, I'm a huge podcast fan and I've been 56 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:37.879 waiting for the Letterman podcast to come out. I mean, as you know, 57 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:40.159 there are these podcasts that do a deep dive on pretty much any subject 58 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:44.599 you could ever want, and folks who are enthusiast if those subjects can enjoy 59 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:46.159 the podcast, become part of a community, all of that stuff. I 60 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.280 was waiting for years for a Letterman podcast to come out. One never did. 61 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:52.840 And so I said to Shaky, I said, look, I want 62 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:54.599 to do this. I need a conciliaria, I need a Tom Hagen. 63 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:57.360 Will you be that guy? For me, he said, Michae, I'll 64 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.080 be that guy for you. He set up a couple intros for me, 65 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:03.319 and the rest is an ongoing history that's still being rewritten. So thank you 66 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:08.000 for letting me spout off on that long winded answer. But we could I 67 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.520 could give an equally long winded answer with other pieces of information that led to 68 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:15.919 this podcast happening, and there's just a lot there, So thank you for 69 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.720 that. I was so excited. I stumbled across the podcast. I had 70 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:23.160 Mark Malkoff on from the Carson Podcast and he's got a new one inside Late 71 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:27.000 Night, And when I was doing that, I stumbled across this and I 72 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.720 was like, Oh, I didn't know about this one, And I'm so 73 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:31.399 excited because for me, I've got what up to about one hundred and ten 74 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:35.199 episodes or so that I can dive through now. I had no idea. 75 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.879 I was psyched. I think episode one thirty comes out tomorrow. Yeah, 76 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.199 you know what, I get that a lot. I didn't know that this 77 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:44.959 thing existed. Yeah, you know, my savvy when it comes to getting 78 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.319 it out there is almost nil. But I like that. People ask me 79 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:53.560 all the time, you know what happens if Worldwide Pants that's Dave's production company, 80 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:56.639 wants to scoop you up or something, and I heartily say, you 81 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:59.319 know, if he's the mothership, I'm just saying, beam me up please. 82 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:02.480 I like being indie. It feels like I'm an indie band, which 83 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:05.279 I probably desperately wanted to be a part of. In the nineties as I 84 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.160 was growing up, the indie music sometimes was cooler than the popular music that 85 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:12.720 was out there being played on the radio. And I feel like there's a 86 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.600 little bit of that vibe with the show because I am so independent and I 87 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.639 am I'm not doing anything to market the thing. I'm just letting it grow 88 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:23.839 organically, and it's on YouTube and Apple and Spotify, and there's an audience, 89 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:27.759 a genuine bonafide audience on each one of those platforms, and it's a 90 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:31.920 lot of fun growing this thing and letting people discover it organically. It also 91 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.240 takes the pressure off. Doing a podcast about David Letterman is a pretty high 92 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:39.720 wire and there's a lot of people with a lot of opinions, So being 93 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:44.560 indie is fun. I think you're smart there. Anytime something goes official, 94 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:48.800 just top mind, like an unofficial Star Wars fans podcast is always going to 95 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:54.319 be a million times cooler than the official Star Wars podcast, even if you 96 00:05:54.399 --> 00:06:00.000 get George Lucas the unofficial one. If it's a fans podcast, you don't 97 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.120 have even if there's no pressure from the official folks, there's still If you're 98 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:05.839 doing the official Star Wars podcast, you're not gonna get on and bash the 99 00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:10.199 Acolyte. You're just not gonna do that, whereas you might on the fans 100 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.040 podcast. So I think you're smart there. That said, if Dave calls, 101 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:15.240 of course you're gonna say, yeah, that's the dream, Oh, 102 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:18.600 it is the dream. And and I like the analogy with the Star Wars. 103 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:23.120 Yeah, if it's an official thing, Dave Filone's gonna show up and 104 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:26.800 he's gonna have a list of five six things that he can talk about and 105 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:29.920 an entire legion of things that he can't talk about, whereas if he goes 106 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:33.519 on something that's a little bit more off the beaten trail, and I've had 107 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:35.959 that. I'll tell you this with these staffers, Johnny, Like, seriously, 108 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:40.079 some of these staffers, I think I got them on the show because 109 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:45.000 we're unofficial, because they're also got that sort of punk rock kind of mentality, 110 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:46.399 that indie mentality. They dig it, they groove on it. Now 111 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:49.120 there are some also, though that's a double edged sword. There are some 112 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:54.199 who are like, so the reverence that they have for Dave and the company, 113 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:57.439 you know, well, it's not very many, but two or three 114 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:00.639 people that said, but if you were officially, if you were officially affiliated 115 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:02.959 with Worldwide Pants, we would come on. But we can't out of respect 116 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.160 because of that. I respect that. But for the vast majority of them, 117 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:10.959 I think you're exactly right. I get a much looser conversation with people. 118 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:13.759 And the ironic part about what you say, the unofficial Star Wars fans 119 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:17.360 would bash the acolyte. Here's the thing. The Letterman Podcast is our tagline. 120 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:21.120 It's where a celebration of the greatest body of broadcast work in history, 121 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:27.480 that of David Letterman and company. So we celebrate this stuff that show for 122 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.879 thirty two years. They were miners. They would go down in the mine. 123 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:34.160 They put their little hats on and they would turn the lights on and 124 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:39.519 they would go into the deep dark recesses of pop culture, of current events, 125 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.079 and they would mine comedy and sometimes they would come out with diamonds bigger 126 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.360 than their head and just amazing stuff. But guess what do they do. 127 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:50.959 They just cast that diamond aside and they keep mining because there's a show the 128 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:55.959 next day, and our show is a celebration. So while you could easily 129 00:07:56.600 --> 00:08:00.879 go down the path of salaciousness or gossip or maliciousness or any of that stuff, 130 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:05.399 I have chosen that our show will not focus on that at all. 131 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:09.439 If things come up organically, okay, we might toss them around a little 132 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:11.240 bit, but that is not the focus of it. And I think a 133 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:16.560 lot of shows that do deep dives into these topics enjoy going into some of 134 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:20.959 the darker recesses of human behavior, and that's just not something that I'm interested 135 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.199 in doing. Because there were so many diamonds. I'd rather focus on the 136 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:26.759 diamonds than the coal. I think you nailed it there. As you were 137 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:31.279 speaking, I was thinking. I talked to Malkoff. Then I had Jason 138 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:33.080 Zinnemann on the York from the New York Times, and we talked about Letterman, 139 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:39.039 and not once did I think about some of the gossipy stuff that Dave 140 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.919 got trapped up in in the nineties or Zeros, and I haven't even thought 141 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.799 about this. When I think of David Letterman, I'm thinking about throwing stuff 142 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:48.799 off a five story tower. And I think your stick is right. Let's 143 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:52.399 remember the good times and to do an episode on one of those other things. 144 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:54.879 Who cares? And I could tell that's just why would you do that? 145 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.679 That's not what you do, and it's we do live in a culture 146 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:01.919 where clickbait is key, and if you can throw some gotcha stuff out there, 147 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:03.879 you're gonna get clicks, you're gonna get views. The good news is 148 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.399 I'm immune to that. I don't care about clicks and views. I care 149 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.759 about putting out a show where I can have itches that I've had in the 150 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:16.399 recesses of my mind for decades, scratched, and to talk about this stuff 151 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:18.919 that I just love so much and these people that I love so much. 152 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:24.159 Gosh, Dave made his producers, his writers, the crew around him a 153 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:26.720 part of the show, and there was a secret to that. They made 154 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.799 us all feel like we were part of a secret club. And as somebody 155 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:33.519 who felt like it was in the club and gets to go and talk to 156 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.600 the folks who were actually in the clubhouse, that is a great thing. 157 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.120 You and you've probably born. I've worked in an office for a long time. 158 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:43.440 Certain that you've had a work environment where there are people around. Guess 159 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:46.960 what, You're going to see every type of behavior that is a known to 160 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:50.240 man if you're in a situation like that. I've also been part of a 161 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:52.840 family for a long time. These people, a lot of them were together 162 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:58.480 for multiple decades, and even the ones who weren't won three, five, 163 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.039 ten years together. You get a group of people who are together like that, 164 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:05.360 that are like a family, and in that work environment, you're going 165 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.440 to see every behavior known to man. The difference is in the offices that 166 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.279 I've worked in, that stuff doesn't get broadcast. You see it, it 167 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.440 happens, but it doesn't get broadcast out there. When you're in something public, 168 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:22.519 like a show like this, that stuff gets broadcast. And it's one 169 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:26.759 of the unfortunate things about entertainment, the entertainment business is that sometimes people are 170 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:30.559 more interested in that than the actual product that comes out. I'm just not 171 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.840 one of those people. Let me ask you about twelve thirty versus eleven thirty 172 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.759 versus. Now, this is I've been struggling with this, especially as I've 173 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:43.720 gotten back into Dave, and I remember back in the eighties staying up till 174 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.120 one thirty in the morning, four nights a week. And then my godmother 175 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:50.399 got me a VCR in nineteen eighty five, and then that solved that problem. 176 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:54.480 But the amount of times I said, man, if Dave were on 177 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:56.919 at eleven thirty, I would watch this thing every night. Then Dave moves 178 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:01.720 to eleven thirty, and I lasted about a year and a half, and 179 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:07.200 then I recently realized I didn't watch most of the last twenty years. It's 180 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.799 like Howard Stern to me, like in that way that I consider myself a 181 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.919 really big fan. And at some point the work stopped connecting with me. 182 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.120 I don't know if it was because I was in my twenties and you go 183 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.240 out and you hang out in New York City and you're dating people and you're 184 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:24.159 hanging out and you're not watching TV. But I also come back to the 185 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.480 twelve thirty. We're all in on this renegade thing versus eleven thirty. Now 186 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.840 it's an Armani suit and shoes, and it's a little more. I always 187 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.919 called it establishment letterman. And now we have this third period where again this 188 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.919 guy that I love puts these things out on Netflix, and it takes me 189 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:43.240 three weeks to get it around to them. So can you be my therapist 190 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.759 here? What is wrong with me? Nothing's wrong with you. It's funny 191 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.080 talking to You'd mentioned Zennman. I've talked to him, and I've talked to 192 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.480 Bill Carter about this. Bill Carter, of course wrote The Late Shift and 193 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:54.440 The War for Late Night. Zenniman wrote, let him in the last giant 194 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.080 of Late Night. Fascinating guy to talk to you. I'm sure you loved 195 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.279 talking to him. I love talking to Jason. Yeah. Just absolutely great, 196 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.600 great guy, they both are. I think it's part of it lays 197 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:07.600 into where your formative years were. My formative years when I graduated high school, 198 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.360 it was nineteen ninety four. Okay, so I watched I was right 199 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.240 in my formative years, the cement very wet. Yet there was still a 200 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:20.480 measure of somewhat of intelligence and cognition that was there because it was at that 201 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.559 time and place when Late Shift happened, when Dave moved, because it was 202 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:26.960 a tumultuous move from eleven thirty to twelve or from twelve thirty to eleven thirty, 203 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.039 I should say it was a tumultuous move, and folks who were that 204 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:33.320 age, that was my formative years right there. I was already on team 205 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:37.759 Dave and excited about what was happening, really fascinated by it. Dave was 206 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:41.360 on the cover of Time magazine, he was on Rolling Stone multiple times. 207 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:46.480 He was the biggest news story in entertainment around the world. Everybody knew what 208 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:50.440 was going on because I was at that time and place Late Show. For 209 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.879 me, there was no problem. I completely understood the fact that Dave needed 210 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.480 to go to a broader audience. I knew why I liked Late Night better 211 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:01.480 than The Tonight Show. Whereas my dad was a Johnny Carson guy. I 212 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:05.480 knew that I like that show better. I also had this awareness that if 213 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:09.159 Dave moved to eleven thirty, he would have to be more like the Tonight 214 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:11.960 Show. In fact, Dave wanted the Tonight Show. He wanted to do 215 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:16.519 that. He wanted to get a little bit more mainstream, but he couldn't. 216 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.399 In my mind, there's a guy by the name of Don Giller. 217 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.879 If you go to Don Giller's YouTube channel, he is the ultimate Letterman archivist. 218 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.279 He has everything that Dave has ever done, and has put a lot 219 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:31.200 of it on very thoughtfully and carefully put it on YouTube as compilations. And 220 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:35.639 I asked Don about this very subject once because he is Don's an older guy 221 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.639 now and he has gone through the eras just like you have, and he 222 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.399 competed to Mozart. He said, Okay, look, early Mozart is different 223 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.799 than later Mozart, but it's still Mozart all the way. And I feel 224 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:50.600 the exact same way about Dave. To be the therapist here, you don't 225 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.480 have David Letterman doing My Guest needs no introduction. My Next Guest needs no 226 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.639 introduction, which to me is a phenomenal long form piece. You don't have 227 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:03.320 that if you don't have Late Night with David Letterman where he's throwing stuff off 228 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.679 the building. When he was hanging out with Billie Eilish in the last season 229 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:11.440 of Late My Next Guest, he's doing go karts with her. So yes, 230 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.000 he's sitting down and having the intimate Tom Snyder and Tom Snyder of course 231 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:18.879 a big influence on Dave. He's having these long form conversations with her where 232 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.080 he's really getting into and he's talking with Phineas and he's talking about these things, 233 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.840 But then there are excerpts, and the excerpts are he doing go karts 234 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:28.759 with her, or with Lizzo. He's playing the flute with Lizzo, or 235 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:35.440 he's going out in Chicago, you know, for the places that Tina Fey 236 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:41.120 went to when she was at Second City and eating this bad but very good 237 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:45.600 food. And you've got these little things. Those are to me sprinklings of 238 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.159 Late Night. They're little nods. They're a little homagous to the stuff he 239 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:50.000 would do on Late Night. But yeah, as he matured and as he 240 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:54.679 grew, he knew he was appealing to a broader audience, and so some 241 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:58.320 of the more subversive of some of the more weird stuff had to go in 242 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.960 the back. But then you look at some of the stuff that they did 243 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:05.600 on Late Show, like the stuff they would do with Alan Calter, for 244 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.919 example, the announcer. You got Alan Caulter doing a mockup of a one 245 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:11.639 in hundred collect commercial and he's sitting there and then they're combining it with Saving 246 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:15.840 Private Ryan, the hot movie at the time, and he's sitting there doing 247 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.799 a one in harndred collect commercial with his guts hanging out of him because He's 248 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:20.679 part of a war zone, and it's what the heck is this? So 249 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:26.399 I think a lot of folks who loved Late Night didn't necessarily look for those 250 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:30.320 moments in Late Show where they were constant nods to the stuff that they would 251 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:33.320 do in Late Night. It was just done in a different way. I 252 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.480 think the eleven thirty thing is on point. You'll know this, But for 253 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:41.440 younger listeners, there was a really cool, edgy comedian that was a frequent 254 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:46.159 guest on Letterman and would crush and I will use the word edgy to describe 255 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.879 Jay Leno. Sure, yeah, ye, just a great guest. You 256 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:54.000 mentioned Tom Snyder. I recently discovered it. It's some sort of homebrew dock 257 00:15:54.080 --> 00:16:00.759 on YouTube about the Carson Letterman Snyder relationship. There. I feel like I 258 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.039 missed the boat on Tom, and I want to go back and do a 259 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:07.039 deep dive on Tom. But in that doc there were more clips than I've 260 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.480 ever seen of the Daytime Show. I have no knowledge of the Daytime Show 261 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.080 because I discovered Dave with Late Night and maybe I saw the Daytime Show once. 262 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.720 Do you have any command of that period of it. I'm on a 263 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:22.600 mission to learn as much as I can about the daytime show that I can. 264 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:26.720 I know our listeners here can't see my set, but if you look 265 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.320 behind me on my set there you'll see a red folder with an Emmy on 266 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.440 it. That's actually that's the Emmy. Congratulations, you've been not nominated for 267 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:38.440 an Emmy folder That was given out for the David Letterman Show, The Morning 268 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.919 Show. And so you've got this show that showed up on Morning last It 269 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:47.240 only lasted a few months in the morning time. It was ninety minutes long, 270 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:48.840 and it was David Letterman doing the stuff that David Letterman did on late 271 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:53.600 night television in the morning, and it was People were completely puzzled by it. 272 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.240 And it was canceled unfortunately because of ratings and stuff, but still nominated 273 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:02.840 for Emmy's different, very excellent piece. Now, at that time, the 274 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:07.240 Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder. Tom Dave loved Tom. Tom would host The 275 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.359 Tomorrow Show. That was the show that did come on after Carson for a 276 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:14.720 long time, and it was a long form conversation show. We've actually had 277 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.559 his daughter, Anne Marie Snyder on our show and we've talked a lot. 278 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:21.200 She's busting her butt to get a documentary made about Tom because he is. 279 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:26.480 Many do consider him the greatest long form conversationalist in broadcast history. A lot 280 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.519 of people have a lot of reverence for Tom, including David Letterman, and 281 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.960 back at that time, there's a whole bunch of irony that's here. Tom 282 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:37.200 Snyder was on The Tomorrow Show. He and Carson famously did not get along 283 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.079 very well. And when Carson signed his I don't know if this is last, 284 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.640 but one of his last deals, which gave him a tremendous amount of 285 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.319 power. Johnny Carson arguably one of the most powerful men in show business when 286 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.319 he was at his zenith. One of the things that he got was a 287 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.880 lighter schedule, and then he also had command of the twelve thirty slot afterwards. 288 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:02.000 Subsequently, the Tom Snyder Tomorrow Show was canceled, and Late Night with 289 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:06.119 David Letterman slid in because at that point Dave's Morning Show was canceled. Now 290 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:11.160 there's a pulpach ironies here. Dave was on the Tomorrow Show as a guest. 291 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.319 Tom loved what Dave was doing in the morning, all this crazy stuff. 292 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:18.759 And then we find ourselves a few months later, or maybe a year 293 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.960 later, we find ourselves where Tom's show is getting canceled and Dave is getting 294 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.119 put in that slot as the heir apparent, Carson being one of the producers 295 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:32.400 on his show. And there's the ironic part really heats up later on when 296 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:36.599 Dave goes over to CBS gets the Late Show or Late Show with David Letterman. 297 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.640 He also he basically took the same Carson deal and moved it over to 298 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.480 a new network. So Dave had a tremendous amount of power at that point, 299 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:45.960 including the twelve thirty slot, his company being able to produce the show 300 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.519 that comes on after Late Show, and who do they hire as the first 301 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:55.400 host of Late Show but Tom Snyder. And it's a very interesting scenario at 302 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.279 the time. You can watch the Larry Sanders Show, and you know, 303 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:02.359 with Gary Shanling, which was on HbA at the time, they wove reality 304 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:07.200 into that as well. That show predicted that Dave would have Tom on as 305 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.960 the guest after. There's a whole bunch of rich, beautiful, organic human 306 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.000 storytelling in the history of these things, and Tom is one of those guys 307 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.279 where I hope that Annie is successful in getting this dock out, not just 308 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:22.839 out, but like really out there. So a lot of people get to 309 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.759 see the genius of Tom Snyder. But Dave is one of those guys. 310 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:29.279 If you look at the press conference of hiring Tom at CBS, Dave said, 311 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:30.599 look back in the day and this is the time without as you mentioned 312 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:36.559 without VCRs. About that, Dave said that he watched probably eighty percent of 313 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:41.279 Tom Snyder's show as they were broadcast. Dave is a huge fan of it, 314 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:44.559 and I think you're seeing echoes of Tom Snyder in what Dave is doing 315 00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.160 now as the elder Statesman of broadcasting. He's doing the Tom Snyder thing right 316 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:53.839 now. You name check to Larry Sanders there, I call it showbiz adjacent. 317 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.319 For thirty plus years, my legacy career is radio, and I've book 318 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.000 shows, and I've been a producer and I've done all that things. I 319 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:06.319 don't think civilians realize how accurate the backstage stuff at Larry Sanders is. There's 320 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:10.519 a particular scene I was producing John Gambling in New York, and I guess 321 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:11.839 it's Gane. Grofflow's character goes in and goes, hey, do you want 322 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.599 to talk to Barry White? And he goes why to F what I want 323 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.200 to talk to Betty White and I'm like, I've been there with the host 324 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.400 who's half listening. I'm like, so, just a fantastic show, Larry 325 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.279 Sanders is. It's groundbreaking in so many ways. There are a few shows 326 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:29.680 out there where you can look at shows that are on TV today that are 327 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.960 effective, and then you can go back and you can find their ancestors that 328 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:37.279 kind of broke the ground for that. Gary Shannling had two amazing shows that 329 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.720 did just that. Now here's the thing about Larry Sanders. I was just 330 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:42.680 talking with I'm not going to say who it was, but one of Dave's 331 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:48.480 high up writer slash producers, and we were talking about Larry Sanders. It 332 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:51.759 is just a few weeks back. We were talking about this and he said, 333 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:53.000 Okay, here's the thing. Here's the thing about Sanders. And most 334 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.160 people, like you say they love Sanders. Most people who worked for for 335 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.440 Letterman like it was a big deal. Every I think it was Sunday night 336 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.519 it would come on. They were so excited when Larry Sanders would come on. 337 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:06.680 But there was one major difference that this person made and it was I 338 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.880 think it was I think that this is a part of Larry Sanders that might 339 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:14.240 have had to do with if they were putting in elements of Jay Leno's Tonight 340 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:18.599 Show into the fabric of the show. But they said nobody was afraid of 341 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:21.160 Larry. He said, that's the thing he goes. This is where the 342 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:26.440 suspension of disbelief got interrupted for me, was nobody was afraid of Larry. 343 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.119 They could all go up to him, and they could these real moments like 344 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.440 you just talked about the host that's half listening and half not and whatnot. 345 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.640 Yes, but they weren't terrified of him. And there were a lot of 346 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:41.319 folks who had a deep reverence, respect, and fear flat out of Dave 347 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.640 and that wasn't represented in Larry. However, there are a lot of folks 348 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:47.920 who say that was more the atmosphere of the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, 349 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.640 that there was a little bit more casualness there. So that was something that 350 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:56.359 was really interesting about that. I was listening to your interview with Morty Robert 351 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:00.759 Morton, and I picked up a hint of that early on the Oh let 352 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.519 me go recap the show with Dave? Has this actually gonna go? I 353 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.960 don't know. I've never heard of Dave's reputation one way or the other. 354 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.119 Is there a street rep for that? Was it scary to go talk to 355 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.960 Dave after a show? The post mortems of and Dave has gone on record 356 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.720 about this, and you can read it in Zinneman's book, you can read 357 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.680 it in Carter's book. I'm not throwing any shade here. Dave's attitude towards 358 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:26.519 himself and his performance. He some would say he tortured himself because his and 359 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.960 it wasn't about anybody else and screaming at other people or yelling at other people 360 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.079 or getting upset at other people. It was himself. He would get upset 361 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:38.079 at himself. And when a show wasn't good, and again his version of 362 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:44.480 a show that's not good. The standard is completely different than someone say like 363 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:48.119 myself or you who are watching thoroughly entertained by things. And if there was 364 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.680 a mess up of any sort, this would celebrate it because that was the 365 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.240 tone of the show. But then he would go back and lamb based himself. 366 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.759 And you had people there who were the support crew watching this guy that 367 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.440 they love so much torture himself. The good news is that evolved as well, 368 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:08.920 just like Mozart's music evolved, so too did Dave's attitude towards towards this, 369 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:11.279 and over the years he developed an attitude where, you know what, 370 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.720 if the show doesn't go, well, there's another show tomorrow night, and 371 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.720 he would be able to reconcile that better than he could early on. But 372 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:22.200 early on, yes, there was a lot of times where and the cancelation 373 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.640 of the morning show I think was a big part of that. I haven't 374 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:27.759 asked him that specifically, That's something I would love to ask him, but 375 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:33.319 I think some of that behavior towards himself was a flat out was flat out 376 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.480 fear that they canceled me once they could cancel me again. We need to 377 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:38.720 keep a very high standard, and I need the standard I need to have 378 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.839 for myself needs to be the highest of all. Because I'm the host. 379 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:47.559 It also the buck stops with me. I get it back. Early in 380 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.039 my career, I remember a conversation I had with my host. We had 381 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.400 an hour that I didn't like, and I might have slammed down the headphones 382 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.200 whatever. I'm not on the air at this point. I'm on the other 383 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.079 side of the glass, and she said to me, all right, relax, 384 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.680 it's just an hour. And I go when I stop caring, change 385 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.839 producers, and I totally get the mentality. Yeah, I feel the same 386 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.759 way. Believe it or not, anybody who's ever seen or heard the Letterman 387 00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:11.160 podcast. Believe it or not, I actually feel the same way. It 388 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.000 may not look like it when you look at the product that I put out 389 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:18.519 there, but I feel the exact same way. There are times where I 390 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:22.039 will look back at a segment with somebody or a line of conversation. A 391 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:25.279 lot of the time it's missed opportunity. A lot of the time it's like, 392 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:26.599 why the heck didn't I ask them this? Why the heck didn't I 393 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.119 ask them that? Or that could have gone better, I could have put 394 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:32.839 a better shine on this person or that person or whatever. And I'll just 395 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.559 absolutely blast myself. But yet you're exactly right. It's caring, and I 396 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.119 think there's a certain amount of personal development that can be added to that emotion. 397 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:42.319 Like my life motto is, don't focus on the problem, focus on 398 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.559 the solution. But if I could focus on the solution quickly as opposed to 399 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.680 lamenting on the problem, I'm going to be more effective at that. But 400 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.519 yeah, I think the best shows i've ever watched that I've ever attached myself 401 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.799 to say this with my wife all the time. My wife is an unbelievable 402 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:02.200 cook. And one of the reasons that she such an effective culinary artist is 403 00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:06.720 because she has that intangible ingredient, and that's love. She puts love into 404 00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:08.960 what she does. And I think that all of us can look out and 405 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.359 we can see things from an entertainment perspective that are manufactured, and we can 406 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.720 see things that are produced with love. And you want the produce with love 407 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:18.799 stuff. That's the stuff that's going to connect, that's the stuff that's going 408 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.000 to resonate, that's the stuff that's going to stand the test of time. 409 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.839 During that interview with Morty, I was quite surprised to learn, I don't 410 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.880 want to step on your story, how much of he controlled chaos Dave knew 411 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:36.720 about in advance. That surprised me. Yeah, absolutely, this is something 412 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:40.480 that if and when I have a conversation with Dave, I certainly want to 413 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:45.279 go down that path. Early on in the show, the head writer Meryl 414 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.480 Marco and this might even this might have even been knocked off before Late Night 415 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.640 started. I'm not exactly clear. I get different responses from different people about 416 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:57.279 this. But one of the things that Meryl knew about Dave was that he 417 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:03.200 had this razor sharp wit. That is just his reactions to things off the 418 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.960 cuff are nothing short of astounding. He is just a genius when it comes 419 00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.920 to responding to things. And he was like that when he was doing stand 420 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:15.160 up at the Comedy Store as well. Heckler's would be absolutely sliced and diced, 421 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.680 and he would do it in a way. I said this on another 422 00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:21.880 interview recently. He was like Muhammad Ali. He wouldn't use vulgarity, he 423 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.240 wouldn't have to use anything. He would dance around it and he would His 424 00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:30.279 weapons were vocabulary and wit and cleverness. And he just was tremendous and Dave 425 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.519 still is to this day. The exchange I had with him in the audience, 426 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:36.839 I made him laugh, but which is one of the greatest moments of 427 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:40.000 my life. But it was only a second long because a second later he 428 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:42.559 came back with another thing that made the audience laugh even more, and that 429 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:47.839 was Dave's. One of the greatest attributes that David Letterman has, beside his 430 00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:52.000 broadcast ability, is that razor sharp wit. So the idea of surprise the 431 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.039 host was something that was let's surprise the host, let's land, but that 432 00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:00.200 was knocked off very quickly because Dave does not like surprises. He likes to 433 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.880 know what's coming, and so at some point early on, a kind of 434 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.119 culture was built where it would look like it was a surprise, and it 435 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.799 might have been a surprise to the audience. You think about the Andy Kaufman 436 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:14.160 Jerry Lawler incident, things like that. There are things that might have been 437 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:17.359 a surprise to even the crew, but Dave would be in on it, 438 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:21.480 and Dave's logic behind it was, Okay, if I can just show that 439 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:23.240 same I think this is what it is, but this is what I want 440 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:26.839 to ask him about. I believe his logic was, if I can just 441 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.599 show that razor sharp wit or that spontaneity, but I know it's coming, 442 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:34.680 I've got the best of both worlds because I could put the shine on whatever 443 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:37.720 I want because I know what's coming. I've got some control there. But 444 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:41.400 at the same time, I can still use those abilities to show spontaneity, 445 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.079 and certainly spontaneity was included in the show. It was a hallmark in my 446 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:49.119 opinion, but Dave knew what was going on. For the most part. 447 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:56.559 I loved in the late night era the they would experiment a lot or just 448 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.720 totally deconstruct the format. What's popping in a mind is they did at least 449 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.200 one episode from the back office. Let's not use the set, Let's give 450 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.319 paul A Cassio keyboard, and let's just do the show from the back I 451 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.200 love that kind of episode. Yeah, and there's so many examples of it. 452 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:14.440 They did an episode on a plane flying from New York to Florida. 453 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.119 They did an episode on the back of a truck where it was trucks that 454 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:19.920 were driving on an expressway or a parkway. They did a show there. 455 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:23.200 They did a show, but they would They did that even into the late 456 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:27.200 show era. They did shows when they were renovating the set and building the 457 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:32.119 bridges, putting the bridges in to the set. There after the initial first 458 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:34.279 late show set, they did shows in the lobby for a week. They 459 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:38.160 would fly in audiences from different cities. They would all sorts of theme shows 460 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.000 that they did it during it was it Hurricane Sandy. I don't know if 461 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.039 it was Hurricane Sandy, but on one of the natural disasters that hit nor'easters 462 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:49.759 that hit New York. They did shows without an audience, the inventive nature 463 00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:52.000 of and then they would take the show on the road. Of course, 464 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:55.680 they'd go to Chicago, they'd go to la they'd go to San Francisco, 465 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:57.319 they would go all sorts of places with the show in London, England, 466 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:00.799 and so yeah, that was one of the things, many things that they 467 00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.720 would do to, as you said, deconstruct the talk show and do something 468 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.920 similar but different. I think I don't know that there's an example of a 469 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:15.119 program that has done that better than David Letterman's productions. And you see the 470 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.200 influence in those of us who grew up on it. You know, I'm 471 00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.960 just some dopey podcaster now, and I'll sometimes friend me too. I'll do 472 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:26.400 the show from I call it a pool side edition, and the real truth 473 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:29.240 is it's eighty five and Sonny out and I don't feel like sitting in the 474 00:29:29.240 --> 00:29:33.160 basement, so I take it out there. But like the landscapers show up 475 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.799 next door, and I keep going. And it's that Letterman influencing me though, 476 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.039 Oh especially because it's a comedy show. I'm not doing the world news, 477 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:41.960 but I'm like, oh, I'm just going to shout over the landscapers 478 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.000 and make a bit out of it. It's so much fun. Yeah, 479 00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.799 I love whenever I meet somebody who has been influenced by Dave that way, 480 00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.279 where they want to take something a little bit askew and put it into the 481 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:59.480 events of everyday life. I adore that, and to me, that mischievous 482 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.400 nature of doing something just for the sake of doing it, really not even 483 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:08.519 knowing why other than it tickles you inside. I think if we did that 484 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.599 more as a culture, as a species, I think we would have a 485 00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:15.079 lot more smiles on our faces. It's so fun to just to do something 486 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.559 a little bit odd. I do the same thing like for the first I 487 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:21.480 don't know how many episodes it was until it was I said I was gonna 488 00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:25.960 do it until somebody discovered it. A fan of ours so named Andrew discovered 489 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.160 it. But I have in the bottom corner it's a zoom. I used 490 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.079 the zoom technology to build the show, and in the bottom corner, says 491 00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.559 The Letterman Podcast with Mike Chisholm, I for almost one hundred episodes, I 492 00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:38.319 misspelled the word podcast and every word it was every episode. It was misspelled 493 00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:42.000 in different ways, and only twice did I have somebody catch it beforehand. 494 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.799 But it didn't get caught on camera. Bill Carter caught it. He takes 495 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:47.680 me spelled podcast wrong, right, I'm like, oh, I do that 496 00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:51.200 on purpose, but it didn't get out there. And then this Andrew saw 497 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:52.039 it and said, hey, he put it out there. Heyes, everyone 498 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.440 ever noticed that Mike spells podcast wrong. And then at that point I started 499 00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:59.920 spelling it correctly because someone caught it. But and there are a little l 500 00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.480 of that sprinkled into the show where it's just a joke that I find as 501 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.240 a joke and if somebody ever catches it, great, If not, okay, 502 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:11.400 that's fine too, That's awesome. I love it. I was a 503 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.000 program director at a radio station Long Island. My midday guy ed till he's 504 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:18.720 on the air one day and he's taking a phone call and he asked the 505 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.119 caller where they are, and they're at some diner and he goes, hold 506 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.119 on, I'll be right there, and he takes a cell phone and he 507 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.000 starts hosting the show from his cell phone, jumps in the car. He's 508 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.519 on the Southern State park Way. He's playing it up. Hey, stupid 509 00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:34.720 driver goes to the diner, has a cheeseburger with the listener, comes back 510 00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:38.279 and finishes the show in the studio, and I thought it was one of 511 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:42.160 the greatest three hours I'd ever been involved with. And my boss did not 512 00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:45.319 get it was like he was on a cell phone and it sounded lousy. 513 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.519 I'm like, that was amazing. Are you kidding me? Yeah, it's 514 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:52.160 okay. And I say to the director, Okay, are you kidding me? 515 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.680 We can have the helicopter guy talking about traffic, but we can't do 516 00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:57.839 something like it's not like the listener. I think many times the viewer of 517 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:02.000 the listener is treated like the lowest common denominator, and I don't like that. 518 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:05.160 I don't like when audiences do that. I gotta ask you this, 519 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.880 What years were you doing radio in New York? I started professionally in November 520 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:14.279 of ninety two at WOR, New York. I was there until April o 521 00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:15.880 two, had the station on Long Island for a year and a half. 522 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:19.319 We ran out of money, and then I was at Serious for a decade. 523 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.640 Okay, did you ever cross paths with a guy by the name of 524 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:27.359 Alex Bennett? I heard your name check Alex Bennett on the Morty episode. 525 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.240 I Love Alex. Back in the day, Alex and I used to do 526 00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:37.960 a twenty minute non radio show in the hallway every day discussing Bush carry somewhere 527 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.720 near the cubicles on the twenty third floor of Serious No. Thirty six four 528 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.920 Sorry, and we would just talk. But it wasn't the current political discourse 529 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.319 where it's you like the red team and I like the Blue team, so 530 00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:52.759 you're stupid and they hate you. The deal you can have meaningful discussions. 531 00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:55.880 And we were friendly and we did it every day, and we knew we 532 00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:59.359 were going to do it and just let's get each other's goats. And he 533 00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:02.640 is a great guy. Alex is a he's been on this show. When 534 00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:06.799 I talk about Rick Shechman earlier, he was, he is and to this 535 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:09.359 day, even though Shecky's left us, now Rick Sheckman's best friend, this 536 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:13.640 show would not exist if it wasn't for Alex Bennett. And so Alex and 537 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:16.559 I are friends. And he does a panel show weekly over Zoom and has 538 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:20.160 since I believe he started in the pandemic. You know, he's in his 539 00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.119 eighties now, but you can't as when you're a longtime broadcaster like that, 540 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:27.319 you can't turn it off. And so he started and GABNet. He started 541 00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:31.240 building GABNet and does shows he calls it The Ramble every night, but on 542 00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:36.799 Mondays, every Monday, he does this show at four o'clock Eastern and he 543 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:38.759 brings on I don't know seven eight people who come on, many of the 544 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:42.319 more fans of his show. I came on because of Shecky, because I 545 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.039 got to know Shecky, And honestly, I think it was because Shecky was 546 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:47.000 he was vetting me. He wanted to make sure I wasn't a crazy Okay, 547 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:51.200 I'm a crazy person, but I'm not I'm not a dangerous crazy person. 548 00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:53.359 I've just got I've got the good crazy. If that's what it is, 549 00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:57.440 that's the thing that makes me dive deep into the things that I love, 550 00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:01.200 whether it be Letterman or Star Wars or music or whatever. The things 551 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.599 that I love, I dive into it. But Checky was betting me, 552 00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:07.200 and so he said, Hey, why don't you come on this show with 553 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.920 Alex Bennett every Monday? And That's what I would do. And that was 554 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:13.239 one of the ways that he and I got together and got to know each 555 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.960 other, and then as the show would progress, he and I would then 556 00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:20.719 start connecting via phone calls or video calls over the Internet. That kind of 557 00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:22.440 a thing outside of the show, but Alex Bennett, and to this day, 558 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.440 every Monday at four pm Eastern, I try and get on that show 559 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.960 with Alex. He's just he is such a great guy, a legend. 560 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:36.400 And I like to say this, he paved the road that Howard Stern drove 561 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.519 on. When you look at Alex back in the eighties when he was let 562 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:42.519 go at one of his positions at wm I want to say it's WMC, 563 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.039 but I don't think it's WMCA, but one of them in New York if 564 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:47.960 there were two thousand people out there the next day protesting, and Alex was 565 00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:51.559 that guy, he was the rebel rouser. He had a little bit of 566 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.320 that. One of the reasons I think I like Alex so much is because 567 00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:55.679 he's got some of that stuff that Stern has, that letterman has, that 568 00:34:55.719 --> 00:35:00.880 impish, mischievous behavior and just a great guy. And I dig that you 569 00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:02.719 and Alex know each other and now you and I have made that connection. 570 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:06.760 And folks, by the way, Johnny had no pre interview here. We 571 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.599 did this organically. We came up with this revelation together. So it delights 572 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:14.079 me to know and respect Alex and love to connect you guys. And it's 573 00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:16.320 random because I, like I said, I discovered the podcast and I'm like, 574 00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:19.960 all right, let me do some prep here. What five episodes can 575 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.920 I listen today? And I picked Morty and I heard the random Alex Bennett. 576 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.800 He also had a run in San Francisco, and he's got a lot 577 00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:30.079 of all the big San Francisco comedians of that era. Robin Williams for sure 578 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:37.000 comes to mind, but Alex legendary radio personality. Letterman reruns late night reruns 579 00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:40.960 I used to they used to mess around with them. There was the one 580 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:45.400 that they rotated it three hundred and sixty degrees just for no reason. I 581 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:50.719 remember, and I've looked. I can't prove this in the internet. Maybe 582 00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:55.159 the story or maybe I hallucinated this. I remember tuning in one night and 583 00:35:55.239 --> 00:36:00.199 they had redubbed the entire show with merv Griffin revoice Dave, and I remember 584 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.679 walking into the middle of it and being like, what is going on here? 585 00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:07.480 Yeah, we need to this is a really good one. That we 586 00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:13.239 need to get the official Letterman channel to put back on there. Good call. 587 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.239 I'm gonna now that this you've said this, I've got a message to 588 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:17.199 them and say, hey, here's a clip that we should throw on. 589 00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:21.840 Letterman reruns are tricky because there's so many rights issues that are there, and 590 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.679 then Worldwide Pants and Universal have come to an agreement. So when you watch 591 00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:28.920 Dave's YouTube channel, and by the way, anybody who fancies themselves as an 592 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:32.800 enthusiast of David Letterman subscribe to his YouTube channel, but they're putting clips on 593 00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:36.559 from those eras, and I think that it would be a very cool thing 594 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:39.599 to revisit that there was the episode where the everything was in reverse, the 595 00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:45.239 reverse angle right. Any times that there was a camera trick of any sort. 596 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.119 You saw this in Stupid Patricks. One of the things about Stupid Stupid 597 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.400 Patricks at the beginning, or Stupid Human Tricks, was the advent of slow 598 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:57.400 motion, and anytime that there would be something that was added to television, 599 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.079 be it dubbing, be it fans, the camera trick or whatever, they 600 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:04.480 would mess around with it and it was so fun to watch them do it 601 00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:07.000 and make fun of it. They just there isn't a show out there that 602 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:12.239 I think that poked fun at themselves, at television, at broadcasting, at 603 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.760 culture the way that they did. One of the things that Dave said to 604 00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:19.559 Tom Snyder early on was that nothing on television is sacred. And to me, 605 00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:22.639 that's okay. There's a young guy who's got this morning show that's crazy 606 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:30.039 giving himself carte blanche to lampoon anything he wants. I'm super curious today the 607 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:35.000 Dave that went through led the nation after nine to eleven in some respects, 608 00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.519 the Dave that went away and then came back from his heart surgery and there 609 00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:43.079 was some really major heartfelt moments. I'm very curious if the David Letterman of 610 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:45.519 today would still say that nothing on television is sacred. That's the question that 611 00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:49.400 I want to ask him. So are you saying the Mirv thing did happen? 612 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:52.360 I didn't make that up. I believe it did. I now that 613 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:53.840 being said, I don't have it off the top of my head. I 614 00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:59.000 haven't seen it recently, but that does make sense. Mirv was Oh my 615 00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:01.800 gosh, was Mirv. Ever there's a scene with Jeff Altman with Merv Griffin 616 00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:05.639 meowing like a cat that I remember. They used to make fun of IRV 617 00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:07.199 all the time. Paul would every once in a while throw the name MERV 618 00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.199 out there. They used to They definitely used to make fun of MRVS. 619 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.559 That sounds right to me, but I will dive onto this immediately after this 620 00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:17.599 episode here and see if that's there. That does sound right, though, 621 00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:22.360 I just can't recall the clip you mentioned Camera Tricks, and I saw Late 622 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.880 Night many times I've recently been reliving. It was my fifteenth birthday. It 623 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.000 had to be fifteen to get in, and my mother knew somebody at NBC 624 00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.440 and I got tickets on my fifteenth birthday and I went with my friend Sean. 625 00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:37.960 And unless we're conflating different episodes, we think that was the night Zippy 626 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:43.119 the Chimp bit Sandra Bernhard and got cut out. But Zippy the Chimp was 627 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.679 a good example of all right, let's strap a camera to a chimp and 628 00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:49.880 let him rollerskate around in the studio and you just you hadn't seen this before, 629 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:51.920 and it was amazing, was mind blowing. Oh, you can do 630 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.639 that so much fun the monkey cam. I've talked to Sandra on her show, 631 00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:59.800 and she's aware and she has said, yeah, let's do this. 632 00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:02.119 I haven't jumped back on getting her on the show. That's a moment I 633 00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.199 want to talk to her about. For sure. You talk about Sandra Bernhard 634 00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:08.719 as a guest. And this is where a lot of folks who love Late 635 00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:14.920 Night and they call Late Night a superior show to Late Show, because you'd 636 00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:20.400 have some of these performance artists on and give them a podium, give them 637 00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:25.280 a platform and a microphone where they could just go and be as creative as 638 00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:30.679 they want to be, whether it's singing, whether it's an obscure type of 639 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.199 comedy piece, whether it's a monologue, whether it's whatever. And Sandra, 640 00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.800 I think is a phenomenal example of that. I really like Sandra Bernhardt a 641 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.119 lot. I think she is a trailblazer in many ways. I think she 642 00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:45.519 gave her Like Vett Midler, I think did a really good job of breaking 643 00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:50.320 the mold of what women should be when it comes to a comedian or a 644 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:54.079 performance artist or whatever. And her stuff with Dave on Late Night was magic. 645 00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:58.599 It was good on Late Show, but it trickled off because Late Show 646 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:01.440 became more it had to be come more like the Tonight Show. But One 647 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:07.719 of the casualties of that is you saw less and less of the performance artists 648 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.960 as opposed to the celebrities plugging a movie. And he did. Don't get 649 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.880 me wrong, the booking staff and Dave, they did try and keep that 650 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:17.159 element in late show. But certainly, if you're going to broaden the appeal 651 00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:21.519 and broaden the audience, some of these pieces that you're talking about here, 652 00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.599 they have to be cut along the way. All right, more tomorrow with 653 00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:29.199 Mike Chisholm. This helps me accommodate some travel ahead during the week. Mike 654 00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:32.599 did look into my MERV Griffin thing and here's what we've learned, and they 655 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:37.039 did dub an episode. You can find the episode on YouTube and I've shared 656 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:39.400 it in the Facebook group Today Daily Comedy News podcast group. But it's not 657 00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:44.440 nerv. The voice is in Merv's ballpark like. It sounds more like MERV 658 00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:47.320 Griffin than it sounds like me. But it's not MERV. But they definitely 659 00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:52.199 did dub an entire episode. I didn't totally make that up. Some other 660 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:57.039 things to plug. We've got T shirts, National Donuts Chain t shirts. 661 00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.400 Get one link in the show notes. You can subscribe for free to my 662 00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.280 substack. That's where I pontificate about the media in the written form. Mickdypod 663 00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:07.480 dot substack dot com. Link of the show notes And if you would like 664 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.960 this thing, ad free calaroga dot com. Slash plus get this show and 665 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:14.599 a bunch of others on the network. Four ninety nine a month gets you 666 00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:17.280 the whole shebang. No ads, all right, More with Mike tomorrow See then.