Shadow Knows. Welcome, friends and podcast podcast and time John Jack again Bryan.
They're talking about groups in the podcast on Ready. Who Knows what powers
stir in the night? What if you did? It's in the past.
I do what I do to fight back the evil Insidement? Alan Baldwin,
John Loan, Penelope Ann Miller and Tim Corey. Who Knows what evil works
in the Hearts of the Man? The Shadow? Welcome to a movie film
commentary your track. My name is Zaki has Sign. I'm here with Brian
Hall. Hey, how's it going, Zachi? Brian, have you ever
wondered what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Every time I pass someone
on the street, I'm sort of like, what's going on in there?
See? Some people wonder? Other people know? Yeah, who's such person?
Why? That would be the Shadow? Brian? The Shadow knows?
He does know. You know, it's funny, maybe just because we're sort
of movie inclined people, But I right off the bat, I'll say I've
not seen this movie until about two nights ago, the first time I watched
it, first time ever in thirty years. But I know the who knows
what evil lurks in the Hearts of Men, The Shadow Knows, which I
only know because of this film, and I got to give it to the
marketing people. It got in there. It's in there somewhere. And that
line, by the way, originated with Orson Wells. Like his his voice,
it was his voice. He was the original voice of the Shadow in
the in the nineteen thirties radio series. That makes sense. I mean what
a voice, that's right. Yeah, not so much the body, but
the voice, right, Yeah, did not have the body to play the
Shadow? Yeah, yeah, he had a body for radio. I was
just gonna say, it makes me think of that. Yeah, that's saying.
But he did, he sure did. And a voice for a Transformers
that's true, right, one of his last performances, if not his his
actual last performance. Yeah. Yeah, But but enough of enough about Orson
Wells in his morbid obesity. He about that? Yeah, enough of that
guy. What did he ever do with regard him to the film? Yeah,
it's exactly. No, we're here to talk about the Shadow, which
which Brian it's not the magnificent Amberson. But this movie celebrated it's thirtieth anniversary
this summer. I think as we record this, just a week or so
away from the time of recording. This will be its thirtieth anniversary. And
this is a commentary request we've gotten several times over the last few years,
especially as we were working our way through the litany of retro superhero movies from
the nineteen nineties, which is a specific subgenre all its own. Yep,
yep, enough entries to qualify as a genuine genre in the nineties, that's
right. So we've cycled through Dick Tracy and The Rocketeer and the Phantom.
I would include the mascow Zoro just for shits and gets yeah, And so
the only one remaining was The Shadow. So here we are. Wow,
is this really the last one? Is there any other one that I'm forgetting?
Like not from the nineties, The Misadventures of Lulu or something like some
radio program from nineteen three, which which don't you want to see? Like
the the the the the edgy Netflix reinvention of Little Lulu. Yes, yes,
I do. She's she's like an ex prostitute or something, and she's
she's trying to you know, defeat to drug runners or something. I don't
know, I don't know what that looks like. Totally Jenny Ortega. Yeah,
yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know what, actually, let's let's
get on that after this mid the Netflix. Yeah, uh no, so
this is this is the first time you've seen this movie. So that's that's
actually a conversation I'm very interested in having. This is a movie I've seen,
you know, a couple of times over the last thirty years. I
would say inevitably, when I would go through sort of the retro movies with
my kids, I would end up, you know, folding in the Shadows.
I've seen it there. But I would say that the prominence of this
movie is for a certain generation, it was their exposure to this character.
Like if he is known at all, it is because of this film,
right. And I would also say it's this film is like the last time,
arguably the last time that the Shadow had any degree of like cultural penetration.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I can't think of anything post this.
Yeah, so hey, we're gonna have a fun conversation hopefully, And
why don't we get cued up. We'll let our sponsors do their thing if
anybody wants to watch along with us. There is only one cut. It's
the nineteen ninety four version, So go ahead and cue up while our sponsors
say this, and we're back and I'm queued up. So what I have
done? So depending on which version you watch, there's gonna be like the
FBI warning and there's like a modern universal logo and then the old timey want
I have a queued up to just before the the older universal logo that leads
right into the movie. Yep, same, Brian saying with you. Okay,
so we'll do the usual thing. We'll hit play. Uh, we
will go one, two three play, and here we go one two three
play. All right, you hear that universal music? Yes, as soon
as I see this logo, I just hear I hear it, you know,
yeah, yeah, oh same same, you know, just seeing this
kind of reminded me of Dark Man. Yeah, for some reason, similar
era. But I was gonna say, yeah, I mean, I guess
right off the bat. I mean we can say that Sam Raimi was trying
to make the Shadow for a really long time but was denied us aned more
than once. He tried, I guess in the eighties and then had to
make Dark Man as a result, his own version of the Shadow, and
then he tried again in the two thousands, and there was not enough interest.
I suppose. I'm like, can we just let the man make his
shadow moving? For goodness? Oh man, he would crush it, right,
he would crush it. Yeah, I would love that. I mean,
well, speaking of Netflix, I mean, I don't know. Maybe
let Sam Raimi make the Netflix film of The Shadow like his Passion project.
We can finally get it out there. I'm sure it would. Yeah,
do the version where he's an ex prostitute and he's yeah, so so I
want to say, right, right, right off the bat, right off
the bat. The music for this movie elevates it maybe an entire letter grade
totally. I miss scores like this, Yeah, right, one of Jerry
Goldsmith's great, great scores. And I think the the theme that he created
for The Shadow is so distinctive that it was later utilized in the trailers for
The Saint starring Dale Kilmer. Sorry going off on my own sort of be
amused direction there, but yes, no, you know, it's funny because
I don't remember the music, because I only remember all the prosthetics on Val
Kilmer's face in that trailer that we need to watch some time because it's gonna
happen that happened, and this is a movie with some interesting prosthetics on faces.
Actually, what we're talking about that the Shadow as a character. I
was aware of him going into this movie. I just I distinctly remember when
this movie came out. I was not like, who's the Shadow. I
was like, I knew of the Shadow? Now, how is that?
Well? You know, during the eighties there had been a couple of different
comic book series published by DC, and I had not read very many of
them, but I knew of them, you know what I mean. I
knew, I knew what he looked like. I had a general sense,
so I was I was definitely like, oh, they're making a movie of
the Shadow. You know, I knew that, But I would suspect that
I'm not the norm. And speaking of not the norm, actually I know
you have a particular thing about long fingernails. Yeah, not a fan.
It's kind of seeing Alec Baldwin in this fright wig with them with with his
with his drug nails, you know. I mean it's a choice to start
the movie that way, absolutely, and coke nail utility aside. I don't
see the functionality of having nails like that. I mean just try to imagine
going to the bathroom with nails like that. How does that even work?
You know? So I I was I was actually thinking about that, like,
why would he want nails that way? It feels like it would make
life harder. Yeah, it's it's it's a I guess it was the fashion
at the time, I guess. Or it's like it's maybe even like a
shorthand for a type of I don't even know, like creepy figure or something.
Yeah, dark figure. Well we know he's creepy because he just said,
hey, shoot through my friend who's like a father to me. This
is a hell of an opening, you know, knowing that he is going
to be your hero for the rest of the film. Yeah, I would
say it's a what the hell of an opening? In my opinion, I
would say it was a mistake to open the movie with all this ying ko
business. Well it's funny then, because who he becomes like for the rest
of the film is basically yeah, we go from this one extreme of like
what a dick, yeah, to like a Star Wars scroll and then he
became not a dick. He became the shadow and it we're just there.
We go. Now he's a hero ready. You know, by the way,
remember the days when you're on when your action heroes had just like a
friggin carpet on their chest. Oh man, I'm so glad you brought that
up. I actually thought about that. And I don't know if people are
waxing or like body physiology has changed over the years, but I'm like,
you just don't see that much anymore. That used to be sort of like
that's a man, he has a carpet. Yeah, I mean, I
mean there was a time when it's like, no, you had to have
a wookie body. Yes, it's like, yeah, you know, that's
that's not a thing anymore. Alec Baldwin Worth managing. So this is five
years after Batman, and there there's just Batman all over this thing, like
this is a universal being, Like, how can we Batman our own Batman?
Batman? Actually I made a note of that where I think it still
has that mentality where with Batman it was like, we don't even need the
name on the poster. We're just gonna put a logo and you're gonna you're
gonna show up. And it worked and then the next year Disney was like,
oh yeah, we're gonna show you dig Tracy. We don't even need
to put the title on the poster. We're just gonna put the logo.
Mixed results. But then it's like a couple of years later, they're like,
oh, yeah, we're gonna come up with a distinctive logo, the
Shadow logo. I think we're gonna include We're gonna include the title. But
but but but you know, it's just like a it's like a scowling eyebrow
and a big schnauz. Yeah, it's very distinctive. And you know they
meant it as like a punctuation like yem, shadow here it comes. This
will be on T shirts. Yes, you know, it didn't didn't quite
pan out that way. But Alec Baldwin was one of the people who had
tested for Batman in eighty nine and at the time this film came out,
you know, he was married to Kim Bay Singer, and he told he
told about this in interviews. How you know, kids would come up to
his wife very excited to meet Vicky Vale and so the idea of being part
of kind of a superhero thing in that Vein was appealing to him, and
so that's what got him on board. David Kepp wrote the script. This
is one year after Jurassic Park. David Kep came at it as a fan,
and he incorporated aspects of many different versions of the Shadow. So,
I mean, you know, we were talking about this a little bit at
the top of this discussion. The Shadow was in a radio in a radio
show which you know Orson Wells's voice. But even before that, he was
in detective novels by Walter Gibson, and he was created as kind of like
a wrap around character like the host, like kind of like the crypt keeper.
Oh. Interesting, And this was in radio. In radio shows like
oh, the Shadow would introduce a story and then people are like, go
to the magazine like, well, where's the Shadow? We want to read
stories about the Shadow. So they created the Shadow two. They fleshed out
his backstory and whatnots as a response to fan demand. Fascinating. So,
I mean, do you know what attributes he would like mention during those wrap
arounds or interstitials or whatever that made him so compelling and people want to know
more? I mean, was he like a crime fighter? I mean that
all came after the fact. I mean, I think I think the Shadow
initially was was just the person introducing the stories and then and then it became
like, oh, let's let's it's it's like Max Headroom or something where it's
like they you know, I feel like he was like a an ad campaign.
Oh okay, so here here's the crawl. Ye okay, So now
this is We've talked about this in movies before, where sometimes you montage passed
the important stuff, right, yes, well here they they've done a text
crawl past the montage. Yes, yes, yes, yes, this is
like YadA, YadA, YadA. It's purest for him because I'm like,
where the character starts out, he's entirely bad m hm. And so then
to then come in on this point where he's I mean, this is like
the essence the opening sequence of Batman eighty nine, right, oh totally yeah,
yeah, crime, and it's very well, it's it's effectively staged.
The music. This this sequence I think works very well. I'd say this
sequence is the one that stuck most in my mind when the movie was over.
Oh absolutely, no, I think it's yeah, in terms of like
the shadow, it's the best scene in the film depicting the shadow. Yeah,
yeah, but I mean he I think the movie should have started here
though I do too actually, and then I don't know if you need flashback
or maybe he can explain his story to someone, but I don't know,
to tease us like that, like this is where he started and then he
learned how to become invisible. Anyway, moving on, you know, like
what it's crazy and just that, I mean, was the text always what
they intended to do, or like could they not afford the film the thing
that they wanted, Like it feels like something that they pull together in editing.
That's what it feels like to me. That's what it feels like for
sure. Yeah. So this character, Roy Tam he is a character from
the Shadow novels. He's one of the Shadows many agents. And that's one
thing this film actually does pretty well, is it preserves the general you know,
ethos of those books. However, the specifics of this sequence are more
closely reflective of another Shadow agent called Harry Vincent, who's not in this movie,
but the first Shadow novel, which is called The Living Shadow, involves
him. The Shadow is rescuing, not even rescuing. There's there's a guy
named Harry Vincent who wants to commit suicide. And the shadow appears and says,
I'm gonna save your life and you'll be working for me and dah da
da da. So they sort of wove that in here and they put that.
They gave that to the Roy tamp character. It's played by sab Shimono.
I kind of like that. By the way, I understand why you
would do this. He needs to square off against you know, the criminals
of the night kind of a thing. But there's something I like him real
quick. That shot that we just saw. We have this deep focus where
a character in the foreground and the background is just in focus. You'll see
Russell okayhoo directed. He does that throughout this movie, which I think is
really cool. Yeah yeah, yeah, No is this movie's got style despair.
Yeah, anyway, sorry you were saying, No, I just feel
like I like that he then saved someone and gave them purpose and aiding him.
Yeah, And I don't know that I felt that with his allies in
this movie, it almost felt like they were obligated, you know, like
sort of like geez, yeah, like really now I got it, okay,
you know, or even with Peter Boyle, you know, I actually
I listened to the how did this get made? And they were I thought
this was a funny observation. They're like, yeah, Peter Boyle is driving
him around in this you know, pimped out cab that clearly feels designed for
the Shadow, but he also has to work in that cab, like he's
also taking affairs on the side, thinking that it's not like he's employed by
the Shadow. He's not getting paid, like he's just I don't know,
Well, yeah, technically, so technically he is employed by the Shadow,
because that's what when when you become a Shadow agent, you're you're basically taking
care of You're like a made man. See. I wish I had understood
that a little bit better, because I like the idea of him building this
network of people. You know, they have maybe a little little debt to
him, but also now they get to have some sort of purpose in their
they're helping helping him others. I don't know, I didn't really get that.
Yeah, and well, and and while we're here and you know,
we're seeing the Shadow us his powers, you know, a clouding men's mind.
This is one of the major differences between uh the novels and the radio
show where Oh and by the way real quick before you even get to that.
This shot right here when we when we when we well not not the
shadow shot this right here, the shadow first of a great, great introduction
to the character. He looks exactly like on those old pulp magazine covers.
But what's interesting is if you look at the next shot. Now the shadow
here is wearing a trench coat mm hmm. And then in the next shot
when he when he when he pulls out his his pistols, there he's wearing
a cape. You see this, That's so funny. Isn't that weird?
So I was like, well, that's kind of odd. Now here's the
interesting thing. Just by chance, in prep for this, I pulled up
the music video for the Taylor Dane song which plays over the end credits okay,
which is original Sin, and they have that shot, that shot of
the Shadow, that introduction shot where he's wearing the trench coat, but he
has a cape like flowing behind him like CGI. And I'm like, did
they just forget to put that in the movie? Maybe right, because it's
in that music video. If you pull it up, it's that same shot,
the introduction shot of the Shadow. The cape is flowing behind him like
flapping in the wind, you know, and maybe a music video was given
attention after you completed the film. Yeah, and yeah, it just got
past them. Wow. Weird, right, that is weird. That shot
is great. You know, it's a really long shot with them sort of
dollying into him down the street. And I was thinking, like, nowadays,
I don't think a film would have the patience to have that entire shot.
But I was like, yes, that is that's cool. Let's strike
it is. It is a cool shot. We get to see Alec Baldwin
dressed as Billy Baldwin. Okay, basically the shadow schnas there. It's it's
okay. I want to talk about that. But before we get past,
I have to say the whole concrete you know, a guy having concrete on
his feet being thrown in water. Yeah, truly gives like a chill up
my spine. It's terrifying. That is terrifying, terrifying it Having said that,
yes, okay, so the makeup where he has a I mean an
entirely different face, a brow knows whatever. Yeah, what is that?
Okay, So so that the look what we see here, the look of
the shadow, that's as established in the old pulp magazine covers. You know,
if you if you google, you can see old timey, really beautiful
painted art. You know. Now my thought is, well, the scarf
being positioned under your nose seems like it would take it takes effort to have
to do that, right, It doesn't seem particularly comfortable. Now, this
film establishes that the Shadow is I'm assuming, like hypnotically altering the appearance of
his face. So that's what I kind of assume, So he wouldn't be
recognized. Yeah, so you'd be like, man, the Shadow's got a
big old schnase and and Lamont Cranston does not have said schnas right right,
Therefore the two cannot be the same. Yeah. Yeah, But I think
ultimately what it comes down to is they wanted him to look like the character
from the books, and rather than give give you know, Baldwin a prosthetic
prebosis, they just kind of they just said, oh, you know,
let the Shadow have that, you know. Yeah, I mean, at
the end of the day, it's it is what it is, But it's
prompted some wandering thoughts, like he kind of looks like a dick Tracy villain
yeah, I think absolutely he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and
and so so worth mentioning in the In the novels, Lamont Cranston is not,
in fact, the shadows alter ego. Mmm, so Lamont Cranston is
a guy. He's a separate guy who who the Shadow resembles, so occasionally
he uses like when Lamont Cranston is out of town, through mutual agreement,
the Shadow pretends to be Lamont Cranston. Oh that's interesting. Yeah, this
is in the novels. I was gonna say, like, knowing that this
show radio show is different in the novels, it's like that, And I
was just saying, knowing that the Shadow was a huge inspiration for Batman,
Yeah, it was kind of interesting. It's almost like watching John Carter of
Mars in a way where it's you see all these things that later become the
iconic things we associate with Batman, but they've been refined, Yes, you
know what I mean. So, like, yeah, just having a straight
up alter ego feels refined versus well, he looks kind of like a guy
who sometimes goes out of town, So I'll be that guy occasionally, you
know. Like it's which I mean, it is what it is. But
it's just funny seeing how that has been refined over time. Yeah. So
in the in the novels, he's a he's a guy named Kent Allard who
who was like a flying ace in World War One, and he he did
spying for for you know, various missions and this and that, and he
picked up a whole bag of espionage tricks and he utilizes that along with you
know, you know, things he's learned in the Orient or what have you.
The radio show just dispensed with all that and said, no, he's
Lamont Kranston, right, So this film sort of weaves together elements of both.
Yeah, and and you know, oh, by the way, when
we come in on the club, I had this reaction where we kind of
the camera panic comes down and we'll see the singer, and I was like,
oh, here, we're about to see Malaura Harden and then it's not
Laura Hard. Oh she's the singer in the Rocketeer, you know here.
Yeah, yeah, now, I know, I know you've had a b
in your bonnet lately about saxophone music. I think it's weird, the weird
Kenny g music that's playing right now. Zachie I literally have that written down
in my I put fascinating that they're playing a Kenny G style song over this
dramatic moment in the club, because it's like, why wouldn't you license some
old song or play an actual old song. I mean, you've got the
song playing already, you know. I know, it's very weird. It
almost feels like it is Kenny G. And they thought that would be something
that would help sell the soundtrack. It's very That's one of those things I
do get hung up on when I watch a movie, and real real quick.
By the way, the uncle Wayne Wright character says after those years in
the war when you disappeared for seven years or whatever, that's an allusion less
to the ying coo stuff than to what the Shadow was doing after the war,
where he kind of, you know, took on this persona and began
his journey into the shadow. So I find it interesting that the film is
kind of alluding to the backstory but not really you know, totally, which,
by the way, I love this. I love the I don't know
the way they're depicting his sort of mind control here him going back into the
shadow. I mean it's and his eyes are still kind of figgling a little
bit. There's a little bit of light on there. Now. I was
just gonna say, the one thing that I get hung up on when I
watch movies that take place in the past is when they don't make their haircuts
look right, or they'll play music that clearly sounds like it was made on
a keyboard. Yeah, it's just like, yeah, like, let's just
you know, just put some gel in their hair and slick it back like
you know. Oh and Jonathan Winters, by the way, this was kind
of his summer because he was in The Flintstones like a month before this.
Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah, he had a good summer at Universal.
Yeah. Now I have to say, rewatching this recently, I was
like, I was thoroughly enjoying all of the scenes with Alec Baldwin as Lamont
Cranston. I found him this is like at that moment where he was just
a charming movie star, you know, and he's very charming, and I
was like, whenever he became the shadow, I was less interested. This
was the experience I had. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I can
kind of see that, Like, I love all the dialogue scenes with John
Loan. I'm like, just give me a movie of them too, just
tossing banter back and forth. Yeah, well, he's very speaking to what
I was just saying, I mean he fits into this time period. He's
very debonair, Like he plays this really well in a way that's fun to
watch. Yes, yeah, he's kind of leaning into the camp I feel
like a little bit you know, I think, I think And he even
said, you know, kind of a little bit tongue in cheek. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, especially there's that exchange he has later with the villain
and yep, the way it's a little more handy that I feel like any
other parts of the movie, but in a delightful way. Yeah. Penelope
and Miller, by the way, who we just saw her, you and
I we were watching Adventures in Babysitting, I you know, yeah, she's
she's Elizabeth Sho's friend who's stranded at the bus station. But she like,
oh she's she I mean speaking of I don't know what the word is,
not debonair, but like she looks straight out of this time period, right,
well, and then she was in The Artist as well, right,
I mean, just she's got the look. Yeah that's right. Yeah,
I love her. I mean she I had a huge rush on her when
I was younger, and I had a huge question on Naomi Wats too,
So I'm realizing, like I have a type. I was noticing how much
she resembles Naomi Wats in this very much. So Yeah, but she's good,
Like it feels like she knows what's going on here. Also, you
know, yeah, the the addition of sort of psychic powers from Margot Lane,
that's something that the film did. Uh that that was not the case
in the in the in the radio show, in the novels. But I
think I think it works. I like it. Wait, that's only in
this film. That's only in this film. Yeah, that is a wild
choice. Yeah, right, that's a wild choice. You know, thinking
about it now, I wasn't quite sure how I felt about it when it
was over. I but now that you're saying that and kind of looking at
it and everything, you know, with the sound off, I'm like,
I almost wish they had leaned even harder into that stuff. That's that's I
agree with that because it it it might have been more effective as as something
that you utilize in the climax of the film in some way, shape or
form. Yeah, yeah, but I think I think the idea, you
know, and I do appreciate that for the most part, the Margo character
is not there just as Eye Candy, and she's presented as more of a
foil or somebody on equal footing with with with the Cranston Yeah, just you
know, as opposed to certainly Vicky Vale, who spends you know, about
two thirds of Batman screaming, you know, sure. Yeah. The production
design is very appealing to me in this film, you know, not just
the interiors like this set here, but even the exteriars, the way they
use matte paintings and whatnot, and bigatures and things like that to really evoke
nineteen thirties New York. I know I'm biased because we or I'll just say
it for myself. I complain sometimes about CGI not blending well or looking really
flat or fuzzy or whatever. Yeah, but this stuff doesn't blend either,
you know what I mean, that's right to a younger person's eye, that
this would be their version of that. I think, just not fitting,
not jiving together. But like I love it. I don't know, there's
like a weird tactile on this to it. And I even this being a
throwback kind of movie, I feel like it suits it. Yeah. Well,
what's kind of interesting is is some of the the bigatures that they constructed
to evoke the you know, kind of this Fantasia version of New York were
utilized for Batman Forever and Batman and Robin for a Gothic city. Yeah,
so that makes a lot of sense. So seeing Max right here just makes
me wish that when this sarcophagus opened, it was alf you thought you could
escape me? Ha hey, Willie. When I saw his name in the
opening credits, I was like, no way. I really was like wait,
really, I was disappointed. He was only in this scene. He
just has one lane. He's just like, well, we have to open
this sarcophagus, and I don't know what what are we doing here? You
know. I had a similar or I had a feeling where I was watching
it like expect like, well, what's he going to be like a guy
from the thirties, But no, man, he's Willy. He's will He's
just Willy. That's him. I didn't order this, it just right.
He was. He was a regular on the Norm MacDonald sitcom. Oh,
and he's he's he's Norm's boss. So it's just Norm, What are you
doing? Norm? You know, and it's just like just swap out Alf
and Norm. You know, you know what. No one does it better.
That's right, no one does it better. He found a niche and
he defined it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm really
things are crystallizing for me as I'm rewatching this right now, and I my
feeling was, I have to say, I tend to be a sucker for
these kind of like thirties forties pulpy kinds of stories, Dick Tracy, the
Rocketeer. Yeah, but when this as it was happening, as I was
watching it, I didn't find myself getting into the fun of it. I
was just kind of observing it, and I was thinking, like, this
movie or its story or whatever it is, it just never found its own
versimilitude. Yeah. I would agree with that, its own versimilitude, you
know what I mean. And I feel like Dick Tracy. It made me
appreciate that even more because Dick Tracy has its flaws, but it is stylized
to the gills, and yet it does have a heart. You know,
there's a real heart with the relationship between Dick Tracy and the kid and even
tests and like the there's palpable stakes and a sweetness and a weirdness that all
comes together in kind of a cohesive, rompy experience that I unfortunately did not
feel with this one. Well, I think part of the problem possibly is
that we need a better sense of the shadows motivation beyond I was evil,
I'm not evil anymore, but I know what makes people evil. I see.
I think that's fascinating. And I think you're totally right because I was
reading about Kep and when he was trying to find a way in, he
focused on the line who knows what evil works in the hearts of men?
Yes? And that was his in. You know, he decided that he,
you know, this character is going to be uncomfortably, uncomfortably familiar with
the evil in his own heart, right, and so the film was going
to be a story of guilt and atonement, is what he said. And
I don't know that I really felt. I don't get a sense of that.
Yeah, yeah, but that sounds yeah, that sounds great. Well,
I I think so so that that certainly underscores the selection of Shuan Khan
as as the villain for this film. One of the main shadow. You
know, he's the joker for the shadow, you know, so easy choice,
and he's he's the opposite number, so that works. He's the He
also knows how to cloud man's minds, but he uses it for evil.
That all tracks. But I think that what you needed to do was lean
into more the idea of like but for X, Y and Z, this
is who the shadow might have been totally right, maybe even it maybe even
incorporate them having known each other before. Mm hmmm. Yeah, have shi
Wan Khan as one of the people in Yinko's court, right right, Yes,
you know I like that. Yeah, but that all said. I
again, I love John Loan in this movie. He is he he he
knows the assignment and he's he's always fun to watch totally. By the way,
people being manipulated to kill themselves mentally is dark stuff. Yeah, it's
kind of hard to watch. That actor, by the way, was who
plays the security guard, Ethan Phillips. He used to be on He was
on Benson. He was also on Star Trek Voyager. Kind of one of
those familiar His face is very familiar. Yeah, there's a lot of people
who kind of just pop in and out for a scene or two in this
or you're like, oh, hey him, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I kind of I mean it makes sense, but I kind of love that
the villain here knew that he could blend in with artifacts in a museum,
like I am dressed like an artifact. They will not notice, saying he's
aware of a lot of things I didn't understand. He's like, oh,
fuel for your car. That that was my thought. Actually. Oh,
by the way, making his first Hollywood movie, sir Ian McKellen. This
is the first movie. Huh wow. Yeah, and he talk about a
paycheck gig, right. I mean he's not to say he's doing a bad
job, but it's like just like, yeah, hey, you know,
show up for a couple of days and be befuddled, you know. And
yeah. I mean maybe it's because I know him now, but I do
think he takes what is kind of a nothing burger of a character and make
him memorable yep, and actually speak king of Like there's Steve Heidner on the
left as a security guard's Banya from Seinfeld, and then the other subecurity guard
that's Abraham ben Ruby from Parker Lewis Can't Lose and used to be an er
and stuff yep, yep. I recognized him immediately and Tim Curry I was
watching this and and I was like, man, he's he's a maniacal.
And I was remembering how he was the original voice for the Joker in the
Batman animated show, right, which I can imagine. Well, that's it.
I was like, what did that sound like? And I went online
and I found actual clips of him as the Joker. Oh what, so
tell me about it? What was you know, missing so to speak?
Where they were like, let's keep trying. Let's let's try Mark Cammel.
It's so funny because I think he recorded two or three Joker episodes and and
he's he's totally fine. Like if he was the guy, I probably would
have been fine with it, you know. But it's it's hard now because
you see that design and you just like, no, Mark Hamill's voice has
to come out of that face, you know. Yeah. Yeah, and
per Kevin Conroy, Tim Curry played him sort of gritty and dark, and
Mark Hamill played him gritty and funny. Yeah I can see that. Yeah.
Yeah, So this, I have to be honest, the whole color
blind thing. It had been long enough where I was sort of like,
that's a weird thing to leave in, not realizing that Oh, okay,
right right, that's really funny. You know, it's funny. I've seen
it come up a lot is on how did this get made? I saw
it on forums. People were like, wait, is he really color blind?
Or is he just that out of it? It was interesting that it
came up enough people weren't sure. By the way, I was really pissed
because I you know this, I play Cinematrix, that game on Volice where
you try to find actors that fit in these different categories. And I had
Ian McKellen the other day and I was, you know, struggling with certain
things to fit him into categories. And then when I saw the shadow,
I was like, oh, damn it. I didn't even know he see
you look at this deep focus right here. Yeah, this is just a
nice shot, you know, nice composition. You don't see that a lot
these days, almost like old schools, old timey. Yeah. Yeah,
I like because it calls attention to itself. But in a movie like this,
I think it has a great effect. Yeah. I think that Russell
mulkay he is He's a talented director who never really got a fair shake because
he did the First Highlander, which as sort of a calling card, is
not too shabby, you know. And then and then he did the Second
Highlander, which you haven't seen it, I don't think, but it's it's
a very very bad movie, not through no fault of him, really,
right, And then he did this, and you had this been successful,
he probably would have gone off and had a decent career. But you know,
now, I think I think the most high profile thing he did since
this was like one of the the Resident Evil sequels. You know, sure,
sure, but I think I mean, you watched this movie and you're
like, no, this guy is a talented director. Oh yeah, for
sure. Another one of the oh that guy, Yeah, yeah, he
was mister Heckeles on Friends. Yeah yeah, he's a home alone the guy
on the yeah line when the mom's frantically calling, he's eating a don't that's
right, that's right? Yeah this don't you need fuel for your automobile?
Yeah. The thing with shi Wan Khan that I find like, it's not
like he's been in you know, suspended animation for five hundred years or something
like that, right, I don't know, that's kind of a question I
have. I don't believe so because he says, oh, you know,
I just killed the Tolku like a week ago or whatever. Okay, yeah,
yeah, So I'm like, well, why don't you just take a
plane to New York? Like what He's not you know what I mean,
he's not out of those ancient times. He's he's like a as this movie
takes place, He's a present tense guy. I see, that's my sense.
Yeah, yeah, so this right where the guy's like, oh,
Inspector Cardona's in charge. So that Inspector Cardona, that's Joe Cardona. He's
another Shadow agent. So there's these like little nods, you know, stuff
where if you're a longtime fan, you'd be like, oh, hey,
that's a reference to that thing. You know. I love that. And
that's the thing I do admire about this movie is it does feel very like
eager to please hardcore fans of this, which yes, I can't imagine there
was a ton honestly in the nineties, Yes they were, that's yeah,
that's my thought. Is this nineteen ninety four, I mean, the Shadow
had not been a very much of a prence. I mean, at the
very least with Dick Tracy. By nineteen ninety there had been you know,
cartoon shows and whatnot, and and you and I talked about this, like
we both knew of Dick Tracy going into that movie The Shadow. I mean,
come on the forties, maybe you know. Okay, this sequence here,
I want to talk about this. Yeah. Yeah, people mock it,
and it is mockable in the sense of like, well, did The
Shadow just build this elaborate set of pipes and whatnot? Sure, however,
I think it's a really cool sequence. It's unique, it's different. I
was like, this is what they mock, like this kind of filled in
universe. I don't know. I just think it's it's nutty. I'm like,
you know, that's the Shadow universe or they did this, I don't
know. First of all, it helps I think the great Goldsmith music playing,
but this whole uh, there's something like kind of steampunk. I agree.
I kind of think it's cool. It feels unique to this. I
mean again, maybe that's it. Also it feels true to the spirit of
what this ip is. But maybe people weren't ready for this ip, you
know, And that's possible. I don't know, or didn't know quite what
they were getting into something that would be so into the thirties, noess of
it. Yeah, well, I think that if there's one takeaway from these
these retro superhero movies of this era is I don't think people were feeling the
retro Yeah. Yeah, and so I mean I was talking with our friend
Sean last night and I mentioned that we were going to cover this and he
was like, oh, yeah, you know, it's that weird moment in
the nineties where after Batman everyone wanted superhero movies, but you know, Marvel
rights were all tied up, so it's like so you you know, these
studios were going into their addicts and being like, what do we have up
here? You know, and this is kind of all they had to work
with. I mean, I don't know if that's true or not, but
that feels entirely possible. Well, well, the fact that look at the
shot, it look it's great marriage of practical and then you got the Matt
Vane in the back. It does you know, and it feels like like
a milliu. I mean, it doesn't look like, it doesn't look real
quote unquote, but it looks, you know, like this this fantasia.
To me, it's like you know what Warren Baty did with Dick Tracy where
he created this fantasy world in that movie. You know, right, this
is like this fantasy New York. You know, totally No, But to
your point, I mean, this movie was in development since the early eighties.
At one time Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gail we're gonna do it, and
then they decided to do this little thing called Back to the Future instead.
Wow what did that get him? Yeah? Right, so you figure,
okay, the nineteen eighties. Then you're talking about executives and creatives who it's
within their wingspan, like you know, their experience. But again, the
Shadow, unlike Batman, this is a fundamental mistake. Batman never stopped being
a present tense character ever from nineteen thirty nine until right now, the Year
of Our Lord twenty twenty four, there has never not been Batman in some
way, shape or form. Isn't that kind of fascinating? I actually wrote
that down just thinking about that. I mean, knowing he was influenced by
the Shadow, isn't it interesting then that the thing that came not that long
afterward in the thirties, Yeah, never went away? Like what what is
that you know what, what made the shadow drop out of the popular imagination,
But Batman never left. And it might come down to the simplicity of
it. I mean, you have these rings, that's kind of interesting,
but then you have the bat signal, you know, like it's just striking
and ominous in the sky. It's simplified and it's bold, and you know
what I mean, Like there's just something his face doesn't change the rules of
him being kind of a shadow but kind of there but kind of not like
it's it's all a little too much or something. But Batman is just so
simple and yeah, really makes an impression. I don't know, it's kind
of fascinating, right, I agree. I think that. Oh and by
the way, this dialogue sequence again, this is what I was saying earlier.
I'm like, just give me these guys like just tossing one liners back
and forth to each other. You know. I love I love scenes where
the good guy and the bad guy are chatting me too. Yep, you
know, And I think these are two good actors. You know, they
have the reference to like, oh, where'd you get that tie? I
love that stuff. I don't know, I think this is where Alec Baldwin
is in his element. I think he seems very uncomfortable playing the shadow.
Mmm, yeah, yeah, because he does. He has a twinkle in
his eye, yes, you know, just alc On, he tends to
have a twinkle in his eye. And so yeah, having this playful thirties
style banter. Yeah, you're right well. And and you know, because
he's playing this kind of kind of light and he's got these these one liners,
and and for me, it's just funny because I'm like, now I
associate that voice with Jack Donneghe yeah, right, right right, you know,
And so I'm like, you know, I expect him to be like,
Lemon, what do you do? Right right? See this? I
I think where where Shiwan Khan here brings up Yinko and he's you're my idol.
I'm like, if this is the first time in the film we allude
to his hidden past, I think that would be more effective. I don't
disagree, you know, yeah, because because I think the problem with starting
out in in in Tibet and that whole that whole drug Dan or whatever,
it's such a curve from where we go, like you know, and you
had the same reaction. We're like, wait a minute, do we end
up here? Yeah, yeah, And I think just start with him as
the shadow and then and then seed the idea that well, he's trying to
redeem himself, and then we get into that a little bit more. Right.
I agree with that. But what you were saying about Batman, I
was thinking about how maybe maybe the best thing that could have possibly happened for
Batman was the nineteen sixties television show Yeah right, which is a weird thing
to say, although now you know that show. For a minute, it
was like really looked down upon, and I think now people have come to
embrace it again. But you know, it's not exactly one to one with
what Tim Burton did, right, but it put Batman in the public consciousness
obviously for those three years, but syndicated reruns forever, oh yeah yeah,
and found a way to make it of its time also right where it was
wildly popular, and so you it was so so iconic. It is iconic,
right, and they just it was You could have messed that up in
so many ways, but they've struck this perfect tone in the perfect moment.
And then, like you said, it lived on in syndication and we still
found it fun when we were kids in the eighties, So you're right.
And then as yeah, people in movies want to take certain things more seriously.
Every every moment in culture happened perfectly for that character doing do her all
these years. You're right, Yeah, you're right. Yeah, because because
because when when the when Baman eighty nine was this is a cool bit there
where fun idea. Uh He's like, no, I want to pay you
for the bourbon. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
was gonna say the bullet thing, I like that. And this shot here
that comes later, the bullet thing. I love this shot right here,
this overhead, and then we come down and we realized, look at the
way the cloak starts moving. This is wow. This reminded me of Tarsum
or something like the cell. Yes, yes, yeah, I mean that's
what I'm saying. I'm like, okay's doing some interesting stuff, you know.
But but with Batman, when when the eighty nine movie was coming out,
I'm speaking for myself, but I'm sure this speaks for you too.
We weren't like, oh, they're bringing back that old thing. We're just
like, oh, it's another Batman. Uh huh. I loved Batman because
because the show was part of our lives all throughout the eighties. Yeah,
the character what you know. And it's funny too because I un ironically loved
that show, the sixties show and as goofy as it was, and then
when the dark version came out, it wasn't. I mean, I'm sure
now there'd be all sorts of discussions and arguments online like not my Batman and
whatnot or but I just accepted it. Maybe I was the right age nine
years old to be like, oh, well, that's a cool vision of
Batman, you know, like I could just go with it. I could
roll with it. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting because
because I was like, I'm sorry that lighting on us jin I like that.
Yeah. Sorry. Oh And by the way, Worth mentioning that the
the Roy Tam character in the in the original novels, you know, like
I said, he's one of the shadow agents, and he's not portrayed in
an a stereotypical manner of what was common during that time for Chinese characters,
you know, very intelligent, sophisticated and and I'm like, wow, that's
very like progressive for that time, you know, totally. And and this
this feels of a piece with that. In the there's a comic book adaptation
of the film that was published by Dark Horse where I don't know if that's
the original script or if it's attempting to be truer to the character from the
from the the books and whatnot, but they have the Shadow is subtly suddenly
hypnotizing roy Tam by giving him information that he wouldn't otherwise have to help him
make so in others he's so the shadows like, oh and it's you know,
the this coin is from ancient China, and then roy Tam is like,
oh and it's from ancient China of course, so that means it's you
know what I mean. So he's the shadow is like nudging him along.
Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, which which I think
I was thinking like that would have been a cool thing to include in this
scene, but I think just as a way of just dropping info, it's
probably easier to just yeah, I agree. You know, by the way
we already talked about it. You you touched on it, but the whole
Brooks brothers like, oh where did you Yes, that's tie, I mean
that was I guess a fun allusion to the product placement they used to do
on the radio shows. Oh sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's
really funny. I didn't think of an old choice to throw that in the
middle of your movie in the nineties, like who is gonna I think most
people would be like what, But I love that. That's a really funny
homage that I definitely would not have made that connection. But I remember being
a kid and seeing that scene in one of these late night you know,
talk show clips, you know, Oh, and I found it amusing,
you know. Yeah, it's funny where he's like Brooks Brothers, you're a
Barbarian and I was like, that's good. Like that was that was me
going into his movie coming out. I did not watch it in the theater,
but I remember at the time. Again, it's it's hard to think
about now, but it was kind of a wasteland when it came to superhero
movies, and so you know, this was this year's superhero movie, right,
yeah, I mean there was a business we push and everything, right
Oh yeah, I remember the toys, yeah yeah, and the toys irked
me. I remember this too, because they all made the mistake of putting
the shadows bandana above his nose. Oh that's funny. And I was thinking
about that. I was like, well, aesthetically, that doesn't make any
sense because he just looks like any other guy. But then the other thought
I had was maybe they were worried, like the nose would snap off.
Maybe, yeah, right, kind of fun seeing this early CGI stuff.
Yeah, it's it's the thought I had is they they limit the CGI to
sort of what was achievable back then. There's only a few instances where I'm
like, well, that just doesn't look good, you know. But like
the knife. I I was looking at the knife, I was like,
all things considered, I think the knife looks pretty decent. Zakie I had
I almost said it, but we were talking about something else. But at
the beginning when it was flying around, yes, it looks sort of of
this decade in a way, but it doesn't have like, you know,
mattlines around it, you know, or look like whether that garbage matt garbage
or whatever they call it, that would be around things that floated in movies.
Like it looks looks pretty good, looks pretty yes, all things considered.
Yeah, I was reading about how they this the aspect ratio is one
eight five because that was that was at the request of affects companies hmmm,
because they didn't want to have to worry about like making something too anamorphic because
just the processing power didn't exist back then, or the storage or whatnot.
And I was like, Wow, that's not stuff we think about nowadays,
you know. No, wait, so do you think that's why Jurassic Park
is one A five. I didn't think about it until just now, But
that would make sense, I suppose, right, yeah, Or I guess
it because dinosaurs are tall. Maybe there's something to that too, But yeah,
yeah, I always wondered about that. Man. I have so many
questions. I'd ask Steven Spielberg. Right, I love this sign too,
like lamas, like oh camel, right, And then when it says I'd
climb a mountain for a lama, in my head, I didn't look it
up, but I imagine it's like I'd cross a desert for a camel or
something like that, you know, right. I do find it funny that,
like, you know here, it kind of makes sense that that,
you know, because that billboard is right there. That's what Chiwan Khan is
using to hypnotize Ryan hart Lane. But then later he uses it. He
like summons the daughter there, and I'm like, there's gotta be another way
to It's like totally, yeah, it would have been fun if it was
different billboards throughout New York. So there's like, yeah, exactly, something
for like post them or something. Some guys sipping on like a cup of
post them. He's just like hey, Jeff, you know, like he
just uses all like some woman sunbathing, and then it's just Chiuan Khan's head
appears on exactly exactly, sort of like the the Treehouse of Horror Simpsons episode
with the yeah, all the advertising things coming. Yeah, he just don't
look see exactly. Man, that's funny. So so I was talking about
this a little bit. In the radio show, they they ditched the kent
Allard identity of the Shadow. So the Shadow is actually Kent Alard who sometimes
pretends to be Mont Kranston, and the radio shows just like now he's the
Mont Cranston and and the radio show added the supernatural element. So, in
other words, the the the novels were much more batman ish, where it's
like he he gives the impression that he's supernatural, but it's everything is gimmicks
and stuff. That's that's fascinating. That's a that's a big change. You
almost feel it could be a different character. Yeah. And and I think
the thing that thought process, if I were to guess, was like,
it's just it's easier shorthand as opposed to having to have the character explain to
the audience everything he's doing, like let me use my grappling gun or whatever.
I don't know, you know, totally works as a radio. Yes,
exactly. Now I'm invisible, ha ha ha, I'm over here,
ha ha ha. Like it feels like a real radio sort of superpower.
Yeah. And and I think that, you know, possibly that's one of
the reasons that I have two thoughts on this. I'm like, maybe that's
one of the reasons the character didn't endure, because if we're doing like a
one to one comparison, it's just more interesting that Batman's a regular guy.
On the other hand, I'm like, I think giving the Shadow this supernatural
hook, well, that distinguishes him. That's something that certainly now lets him
stand apart. Sure, you know, Yeah, I think the other thing
actually is the Shadow is published through Pulp Novels, and there was something like
three hundred something shadow novels over the course of twenty years, of which Walter
Gibson wrote the overwhelming majority of them. That's incredible, Like yeah, something
like like two hundred seventy something, you know, right right, And really
admire those sorts of people, by the way, just those creative like Stephen
King types where it's just like they helped themselves. They're just storytellers. They
pumped this stuff out. I think it's so cool anyway. Well, and
I think by virtue of the fact that this was a twice monthly publication.
M So it's like by hooker by crook, like it's like a novel twice
a month for whatever twenty years, you know. Yeah, And I think
part of the you know, I think I think pulp novels just fell out
of fashion. That's I think that's another factor. I think comic books have
never gone away. That's another that's a good point. Yeah, yeah,
because I think about this with with and I'm sure we've talked about this,
but you know, Jerry Siegil and Joe Schuster with Superman, they wanted to
sell him to a newspaper syndicate and do a newspaper strip, and they landed
at DC sort of like, Okay, well this is I guess we have
to settle for this kind of thing, right, And it's like that ended
up being the reason that that Superman, Batman, all these DC characters are
still around because nobody reads newspaper strips in the same way. Nobody, you
know, nobody talks about Terry and the Pirates or whatever. You know.
It's yeah, I love stories like that where things didn't work out the way
people wanted or and that changed everything, you know, and now we still
know that character almost one hundred years later. It would have been nicer if
Siegel and Schuster didn't get screwed over by the company, obviously, but at
least the character lives on. Yeah, so again the shadow Schnaz there.
I find it like extremely distracting, not because it real quick, by the
way, right here, so right here, next time you get to be
on top, that's Alec Baldwin. That's the comedic genius of Alec Baldwin.
Going off script, Okay, I wrote that down because I was like,
that's a weird thing to put in a movie like this, right, I
put next time You'll be on top? What the hell? Right? It
feels like something he would have said to a dame, you know, not
like the bad guy he just kills, right, such a weird the fact
that he came up with it and they're like, that's cold. Jerry Gold
Yeah, oh man, man, I'm so glad that we were, like,
it's so funny. We're like hitting all the same things that Yeah,
I mean definitely this part right here, this cracks me up. Where dude's
got the shadows. Vulnerability is not kryptonite. It's a flashlight right right,
right now, what's funny? Okay, so right here, you know,
he he comes upon the shadow and the shadows like, oh shit, now
what you know? And I'm like, you know what do I do?
And I'm like, I don't know, duck? Yeah right, you are
invisible. Yeah, I'm like, you know, you can make yourself invisible
except for your shadow. And I'm like, isn't that a contingency you should
account for? Yeah? Yeah, it's like yeah, shoot out all the
lights. Be kind of a cool sequence. Shoot the flashlight. As soon
as he's been exposed, bam, shoot the flashlight. It'd be kind of
cool then because you're not seeing anything. The guy holding the flashlight like got
you. But then the flashlight breaks and then he falls to his you know,
to the ground, and it's like, oh he's getting you know,
like yeah, it played into the coolness of the invisibility fight. Yes,
oh yeah. The other thing I was wondering is where did these Mongol guys
come from? Yeah? Was there other booms that were just opened? Yeah?
That is a very good point. Yeah, yeah, because our main
villain he just arrived. Yeah in that whatever that tomb? Yeah, liked
did they all come on the plane? Like Shiwan Khan took this bit right
here where where Peter Boyle is like I sent something coming and he's reading a
book like developing your syc. Doesn't that feel like something that could have easily
been just cut out? Yes, that that feels like I mean, and
I'm not saying they should have cut it. I'm like, it feels like,
oh, that's kind of interesting that they left that in because that seems
like something you would have just cut you know. It's funny though, like
I almost wish there was more of that, like because there is a quirkiness
and person or or Yeah. I'm not saying it has to be that movie,
but I don't know. If you're gonna do it like go all in
or something. Yeah. The well, And I think part of it is
just because it's Peter Boyle and we know him, like even at this time
he was known, but obviously since this, you know, because of Raymond
and stuff like, oh we love Peter Boyle, we honest see more of
him. M hmmm hm. Maybe that was ended up with on the day
he's like, yeah, get the prop department and I need a book.
I need a book. I feel bad for these guards. Yeah, they
didn't do anything. They just wanted a burger, I know it. Yeah,
it's like you give them enough of a moment, like I'm hungry,
you like pizza. I love pizza. Flap flap, you know, just
so we think about them as real human beings for a second, just to
take them away from us. See so this right here, Okay, So
her dad calls her and he's like, I need your help, Margo.
So she shows up here and then she's hypnotized by the billboard Again. I'm
like, so, is Shiwan Khan's power specifically channeled through smoking guy on the
billboard? Yeah? Yeah, or they built the set, you know,
I guess I might as well use it as we'll use it. Yeah,
but this is kind of fun, you know, hypnotizing someone to become an
assassin. Well, and and it's it's very a naked gun, right,
kill pap Shmar. Yeah, I must kill the Queen. I must kill
the Queen. Yeah. I was talking about John Loan. I mean,
he's an actor who I first time I became aware of him was through this
film. But I mean he was in a couple of years after this,
he was in a really good movie with Christoph Lambert called The Hunted. I
remember that title. Yeah, that's kind of it's like kind of an overlooked
movie, but I actually really like it. And then he's like The Villain
and Rush Hour two and stuff, and I'm like, I'm I'm like watching
rewatching this. I'm like, John Loan, I feel like he should have
had more of a career, or more of a Hollywood career. I was
surprised when I went to his IMDb page. Yeah, not as not as
much. He was in the Last Emperor. That's kind of the big thing
that put him on the map. Yeah, you know, I kind of
wondered, I wish I could go back to nineteen ninety four and take my
Grandpa to a movie theater to like see the trailer for this and see if
he'd go holy crap, you know, like, yeah, is this This
is a weird example. But for me, I think something that I loved
when I was a kid that people don't think about much anymore, like Inspector
Gadget or something. If I was to just show up in a theater and
see an Inspector Gadget trailer with like my hypothetical kids, but I be like,
what the Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he's got the extendo arms
and his you know, penny solves all the crime, like you know,
like how I'd light up and remember all the details about it, Like would
my grandpa see this and go, oh my gosh, Like you know,
I used to listen to this after Hoover's addresses on the radiola. You know,
I wonder I almost would love to see him delighted in that way.
I wonder if Grandpa's incrostination when it's jailer that's okay. So this is interesting
because I think, well, first of all, I think I want the
Inspector Gadget reinvention where he's an ex prostitute. Ah, I'm loving this runner.
I do. Remember. This is the only place I can talk about
this, really, but I remember in the early two thousands, when things
were getting really gritty, I wanted to do like I had a joke about
doing like a gritty Inspector Gadget, and it would be you know, rain
soaked New York or whatever, and someone's mugged and the guy runs down an
alley and then all of a sudden you see a close up of these lips
go go go gadget arm and his arm like flies down the alley, grips
his neck and you know, holds him way way away, up in the
air. If it dropped him, he would kill him, you know,
like this gritty Inspector Gadget. Swear to me, Yeah, yes, I'd
watch it. I would too, honestly. Uh. Anyway, yeah,
well I remember the movie, the live the live action The Inspector Gadget movie
being not very good. Uh, but they and I think Matthew Broddock was
just miscast. But they did like a straight to video sequel a couple of
years later, which I didn't see much of. I saw some clips,
but it was French Stewart as Inspector Gadget. I remember that and I'm like,
well that's better like casting. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah.
I went and saw that in the theater because I am a gadget head.
And it's funny because I didn't like the movie very much, but I
am noticing now a generation coming up. I'll mention Inspector Gadget in the bic.
Oh, I love that movie. Matthew Broderick, Yep, it's their
hocus pocus. Yes, yes, that continues to happen. It's kind of
amazing. This is funny to me. He looks in the mirror and he's
like, oh, it's this mongol guy, And I'm like, how about
anybody else on the street being like, is that guy dressed like that?
Yeah? You can almost imagine a movie where someone would be like, say,
nice costume. Yeah right, it's yeah, right, just to make
New York feel a little more alive and aware. Cause I'm kind of like
that wouldn't that would make more sense if they aren't dressed like that, Like
if they're dressed in normal clothes. Yeah. Yeah, that's a kind of
a fun idea where you see then maybe he takes them to Brooks Brothers,
right, because he heard about it and then you see these people who are
acting weird. Their body posture is weird because they're uncomfortable. So you know,
these people out of time are now wearing modern day suits or something.
Yes, yes, that may yeah, I can see that. It is.
Yeah again this this bit coming up here where again it's just it's just
Cranston and Chewan Khan and they're just like, so, this is what I'm
planning to do, and he's like, well, this is what I'm planning
to do, and you know, they're just talking. I don't know,
I think these are two actors who play off each other really well. Yeah,
yeah, I agreed. Well here you get that in a little bit,
that flavor of him in the suit now, yes, yeah, exactly.
Yeah. I was just gonna comment as I was talking about New York.
I mean, not that I hold it against the movie, but you
can tell it's very much like a backlot Oh, absolutely universal or something.
But it is kind of funny. I don't know, maybe it's just me
or making it up, because I actually, before I even looked it up,
I was like, I don't know how to explain it, but that
looks like the California Sun, you know, just it just looked different.
I don't know what that is, but well it's where it was shot.
Yeah, it was. It was impacted by the nineteen ninety three earthquake.
Kind of fascinating affected the ending of the movie. Yeah, for the worse
yep, undeniably. Yeah, look at him, man, he's just I
don't know it smugs the wrong word, but just cocksure. I don't know
what. Yeah, if you want to call it like, he just he's
got that in spades. I mean, I like the lane that he's playing
Cranston in, you know, Alec Baldwin, And I think it's not it's
not camp, but it is self aware, right, And you know,
this just speaks to sort of where superhero movies were at this time, where
they they hadn't quite cracked it. They hadn't figured out what is the approach.
You know, we're ten years away, roughly eleven years away from Batman
Begins. Wow. You know, and I've said this often, right,
I think I think you can look at Batman Begins as the thing that led
to the MCU and everything that came after it. Batman Begins, So they
hadn't figured it out yet, you know. Yeah, because this is this
is This is two years before The Phantom, which also has kind of an
arch tone. Yeah, I personally, and I know, I don't know
how people listening feel, but I personally like the Phantom better. I think
the Phantom achieves better what it was trying to do, It finds its tone.
I agree. Actually I said that very thing to Sean last night.
I was like something about that one. I found my way in. It
felt like more of a whole film to me in a way. Yeah,
story, character's tone, everything, But yeah, yeah, like like this
one. To me, I really appreciate the production design. I think these
actors or this sequence I really like with the bullet thing, that's kind of
the tone. And I think they're doing good stuff performance. I love the
music, as I said earlier, and ye you know, and maybe partly
it's because the ending they just straight up had to had to scotch tape something
together. Maybe yeah, maybe that's a part of it, but it doesn't
hang together as well as certainly The Rocketeer, even Dick Tracy and The Phantom.
But you know, I know that there's others who would rank them differently.
Sure, sure, I mean, man, the Rocketeer, what a
wonderful, wonderful movie. I mean really yeah, that movie, like because
I had the benefit of being the exact right age, so I've always held
that movie very near and dear right. Yeah. But what's been cool is
to see like because I remember in the nineties generally speaking, it was like,
oh, the Rocketeer whatever, And we have definitely seen this like no,
no, no, this is like it's not just good, it's great.
You know, we've seen I mean script, the script level, the
character level, the actors they chose, like the perfect leaning into the thirties,
noess of it, but not having it be camp. I mean,
it really is a little miracle of a movie. Yeah. Yeah, with
all the components at play, you know. Yeah, right, I really
like this this element of the story that where's his hideout. Oh, it's
just right there. He's just hypnotized everyone into not seeing it. I mean,
it's kind of brilliant. I love it. I love it. It's
it's so bold and you know, big and broad for a villain like this
to have it in the middle of the city. Yeah, you know,
it's not like on the outskirts of town and he's made some warehouse invisible.
It's like this right, Well, yeah, see, and this is what
I mean, Like, I think Alec Baldwin again, when he's not trusted
up with with his Billy Baldwin face, he's he's bringing it. I think
I think he's he's fun to watch, he's enjoyable. I just I think
he feels hamstrung whenever he has to shadow up. Yeah, you think he's
just not comfortable playing some sort of hard ass figure or something. You know.
I think that the problem is that the shadow. This is what I
think about it. I'm like, does he just have to laugh all the
time? That seems hard to do? Mmm? Sure? Like you know,
and is he is he doing recording those in the ADR booth being like,
oh geez, another take in our right, that's funny. I think
I think the movie needed to establish a little bit more clearly what are the
Shadow's abilities and what are his limitations? So you know, we kind of
like he's not really invisible, he's just clouding people's minds. But you know,
I mean, that's that's nebulous, and I feel like you need to
explain that a little bit. I'm glad to hear you say that, because
I wasn't super clear on it when I was watching it for the first time
and the arrows from the crossbow are pinning his I thought his shadow to the
wall, right, you know, which makes more sense because if he was
that close to the wall pinned, there would be no shadow. So you
know what I'm saying, Like it was just my brain was doing geometry trying
to figure out what was going on in that moment, right. But yeah,
yeah, I mean I think that it's easier from a radio show perspective
to be like he's able to cloud your mind so that you don't really see
him, right, But it's like, how do you visualize that? Sure?
Yeah, I mean they do a pretty good job later in the film
with the water, right and you see his sort of footsteps going through the
water. I thought that was pretty good, Like, you know, he's
really there, He's just obscured himself to you billowing drapes. I wish I
had building drapes in my place. This, this sequence is executed pretty well.
I have to say, the whole the makeup that's used to have him
pull off his face. I mean this very old timing, right, This
is this in the age of CGI. You just wouldn't see you look at
that. That's that's just cool. Look pretty damn good. Yeah. The
way they do the transitions, it's look at that. Yeah, with the
lamps, that's pretty good. Yeah. I was just like, holy crap,
it's going full Poultrygeist. I thought he's gonna rip his face off.
I was like, geez, that's that's like the grossest part to me in
pulture Geist, right, this scene here, this was another one of those
late night you know, Jay Leno clips. I'm guessing when Penelopean Miller was
the guest. You know, Oh, I can see that. I mean,
look at her, man, she looks ripped out of like a nineteen
thirties yeah starlet perfectly that era. Yeah, there was there was a minute
there where she was in a lot of stuff. I I you know,
I feel like Carlito's Way Kindergarten just before this is Carlito's Way. Yeah.
Yeah, I remember her being like a real presence and she's still the relic,
yes totally. But she's still doing stuff. But you just don't see
her at the forefront as much. Oh that's just the unfortunate. But this
is this is hilarious. You know, this is just a funny exchange she's
talking about her dream. It's all sensual and she's like, what was your
dream? See and the way he delivers it, I think I think it's
perfect. I do think it would have been funnier if she didn't say you
have problems. I agree her reaction, right, I think I think I
had that same notes I'm looking but yeah, yeah, it's no like,
let that be funny, yeah, you know, or play you know,
have a reaction or something. Just her reaction. We don't need the we
don't need to to put a lamp on it, you know, totally agreet
undercuts it. That's so funny that too. I thought that was a pretty
funny thing where he's giving hery to oh this is like my my aunt whoever,
and she's like, oh yeah, she kept her figure too, Like,
no, it's all the women he slept with. Yeah, you know,
it would be kind of funny because we're seeing her silhouette here as she's
changing. If she's like, oh, how'd your shadow get over here?
What? Then he like can hear pitter patter? He goes back on the
other side of the changing screen. You know. Alec Baldwin has talked about
how this movie was part of the succession of flops that ended up kaibashing his
run as a leading man. Hm hm, you know, because because you
know he was, he was kind of there was a period there hunt Fred
October certainly being one of the most prominence where he was, you know,
I sought after leading man and then between this and what was the Getaway,
the Getaway with Kim Basinger, which I think that's where he met Kim Basinger
from Mistaken or maybe they were already married. I can't remember, but Heaven's
Prisoners was like a year after this, you know, you know, you
do enough of those and then that's it. Yep, You're done being being
in above the line star. So that's sort of when it precipitated his journey
into character actorhood. You know. Is that funny because in my mind I
don't think of him that way. I do still think of him as like
a movie star. Oh yeah, he us in like a ton of big
movies, a big movie start in the nineties. But yeah, I guess,
yeah, that wasn't I mean, not that many hits. Yeah,
it's weird, and I'm like, what am I thinking of? I mean,
obviously on for October, I don't know about it. Yeah, this
so this I was thinking about how what's so much worse is that he knows
what's happening, Yes, unlike the others. Yes, right, yeah,
he doesn't want to jump off. I think this is the Empire State Building.
Yeah that that shot by the way, looking down I don't know what
that is, but it looks phenomenal. Yes that well, by the way,
this this here, yes, why, it's like the propeller guy in
Titanic. Yeah, and you you have a Cranson like it's all falling into
place now as you see this guy bounce off the building. I know,
I know, Like I don't know if I should laugh about the movie is
like, but uh yeah that what that perspective shot looking down the side of
the Empire State Building like that made my stomach drop. It was a really
effective shot. And who's that actor? He's in all sorts of stuff,
the guy who fell. Yeah, yeah, I've seen him in a few
things. Oh I'm fressy. He didn't know his name. Sorry, it's
like up your alley to like know that guy. I have failed in a
million things. So this year he's like, I'm going to talk to claymore
as the shadow or whatever, and I'm like, well, was this the
place, like, maybe find somewhere else to lure him to, right,
because this sequence makes me say, you know, the shadows maybe not so
bright? Right? Yeah, Tim Curry, it's interesting he doesn't play as
big of a role as you would imagine for having in this movie. I
feel maybe, yeah, Tim Curry, this was This was ninety four,
and then a year after this he was in Congo, which I have not
seen, which, yeah, we're well, I'm not planning for us to
do a comment trade track for that weirdly fun surprising unless we get enough requests.
I mean, shit, we're doing this one because we got we got
multiple requests for it, so you never know. I do like that.
Yeah, I like the footsteps right there. And by the way, I
did read that Tim Curry did this because he wanted to work with Ian McKellen,
so it's sort of McKellen yeah, totally. And I guess they had
been in a production of Amadaeus together. Yeah, and they got along famously
on this one, can imagine. And you know, Ian McKellen talked about
like just his first exposure just like a big Hollywood movie, big set,
big everything, and it's very funny now to be like sir Ian McKellen.
He's Gandalf for goodness sake, you know. And and I was thinking about
I was like he was in his fifties when he made his first big Hollywood
movie amazing, So you tell me, like, it's never too late.
Yeah, And if some time traveler could tell him, Oh, your biggest
role, like that's still yeah, that's a little ways away. You're you're
gonna become iconic. Yeah, and you know for something you haven't even done
yet. To hear that in your fifties, I mean, it's gotta be
kind of nice. Yeah. See again, I'm gonna say, hey,
Shadow, maybe don't lure the guy into the death trap A death trap?
Yeah yeah, just his apartment, yes, like of all the places,
you know. I know it's so funny, but there's something kind of old
school about it that I do like. It feels like an old school concept,
this kind of a trap. Yeah, I love. I kind of
like this psychic thing. It's kind of fun with her. It's and like
like we said, especially considering it was just an invention of the film.
I know it's a it's quite a swing, but I'm at the same time,
it fits what we're doing here, right, I mean, with messing
with people's minds, and so he's found someone who's on some sort of weird
plane with him. You know, here's my question, why isn't the water
gushing out of those holes? If I was the director, I'd be like,
because shut up, Zachy. No joke didn't even cross my mind.
I only thought, why is he swimming away from them? Like I would
just well, I don't know. I guess you have to keep trying.
But like I mean, I'm like, well, maybe I'm wrong because I
don't know how you know the physics of water, But I'm like, it's
gushing out of all the other holes, the other holes. Yeah, you
know, yeah, this is hilarious. This is how you open a door.
He's like, mind me in to her, save me, turn the
door thustly. I kind of like this old school kind of stunt too.
Makes me think of Mission Impossible one, the exploding aquarium and just rush of
water throwing a human being. I mean, there's something kind of dangerous.
Yeah yeah, back at Wayne manor Yeah, exactly what it feels like the
chemistry between these two. I find it interesting because I was looking at some
of the conversation online. It's like, oh, these they don't they don't
have any chemistry together, and I was like, I don't know, man,
I like them together. I think they're fun. You know what I
will say, I don't think their characters necessarily light the story on fire,
but they don't. Both are very good at doing what this movie wants them
to do. That sort of thirties I think. Put it like they're in
the same movie together and that is fun to watch them interact. I remember
this shot right here in all the TV spots, Yeah, it's really as
trailer guys like who knows, you know what, action or whatever, you
know. Then it's captivating. Yeah, like her and the excitement. That's
really good. Yeah, yeah, like her. She's in this nightgown that's
flowing and then there's these flames and circling her. So okay, So right
here, Brian, what if this here is the first time we really see
the the yin ko of it all and we know he's conflicted, but we
don't know why. Yeah, and so it's finally like, look, I
know you think I'm doing this for the greater good. Maybe I'm I'm a
hero I'm no hero. What do you mean, well, yeah, exactly,
and then you go back and oh damn, I fight that every day.
That's why I'm pulled out of it all the time by like some you
know, American playboy just randomly goes to to the Far East and becomes an
opium lord. You know, that's so right, and and then being like
it but now I'm a good guy, and I'm and I'm like, well,
maybe you didn't need to go as far as that, but you can
allude to the idea that following the war he lost himself and and you know,
he became somebody he didn't want to be. And and I think there
was a there was a better way to incorporate that without it being so abrupt,
so jarring. You know, that would be a great montage, like
seeing some guy who has like a little arrogant and comes from some world and
thinks he can, well, I'll just camp out here. This is exotic
to me and interesting, I'd rather than go home. And then it's like,
but then I found myself becoming someone I never thought I could be,
you know, like you yeah, yeah, I think it's better if he
said if he says that and then the screen goes to black and we have
another text crawl. For seven years, Cranston became a person he did not
want to be and such. There was one moment where a guy who was
like a father to him, he ordered to shoot him anyway, and then
we fade back in on him and he's like, and so that's what happened.
And she's like, what what just happened? What you just got really
quiet there for a second. Oh, you can read that. She's like,
you're really strange, and I don't know why I keep sticking around.
Yeah, y'all love this old bomb too, with the old timey numbers.
I don't even know what you call that, those like those light bulbs.
Yeah, it's very It reminds me of Goldfinger totally. Yeah. Yeah,
I love this stuff. The miniatures are bigotairs as you were calling him.
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a big fan of exposition by way of shouted
newspaper headlines. Yeah yeah, newspapers, spinning news paper slash shouted headline exposition.
Yeah. I love the expression on this guy. By the way,
I was fascinated by that real quick. By the way, how I think
Oppenheimer would have been improved by spitting newspaper slash newspaper boy screamed headlines. In
my opinion, I don't want to tell Christopher Nolan his business. He needed
more shouting paper boy. I would love you to encounter him in a restaurant
and be like, I don't want to tell you how to do your job.
Cut to me, tossed out like jazz. I love that. I'd
love that as a series, by the way, like a YouTube series where
you go up to famous directors and tell them a stupid advice about their movie
and then it cuts to you being like being thrown out of Musso and Frank,
you know, like sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. You
were saying no, no, no, no. There was just something funny
about the the man on the street to have the paper and he holds it
out like look at this fellas and all these people lean in. But there
was something really wow. I don't know that is an expression that guy has
then and it stood out to me now and I don't know, I wondered
what the other takes. Look like he was going to earn his day player
money. You know he did, he did in my mind, or if
he's kind of a fun. He speaks in a perr. He's kind of
a fun voice. I found myself talking like him after the movie walking around
there. You can't help them do that? Yeah, I know, is
that what you think? Yeah? What we needed was Tracy Morgan Yo La
mak Quenston here. I would have loved that if he was one of his
acolytes or whatever, if he was the Peter Boyle character. Yeah, yeah,
hey, Lamont, what are we doing here? Do you want me
to call a boss? I don't want to tell you this again, but
subtleties, Katie, please, this is cool. I love this. This
is this is the wackadoo of this story that I like. She's a psychic.
That building's invisible, you know, Like, guy's like a lunatic.
He's loney. See, that's probably a guy they didn't want to pay because
he already turns around and his mouth doesn't move. But you hear someone loop
in lunatic. Yeah. There's a scene in Airplane where it's it's Robert Hayes
describing the first time he sees the Julie Haggerty character. Yeah, and and
he sees her and it's it's him. It's his narration he's like I had
to ask somebody to pinch me, you know, and you see him lean
over to somebody and he whispers, obviously, pinch me, and you just
see the guy like what and he just backs away slowly. Yeah, I
feel like that would have been funny here kind of like sees the building,
Hey, pinch me. You just see that. Totally. This guy's bats
I think he took his wallet. Yes, yeah, every generation, like
there's an actor who just fits that bill and he gets cast in these kinds
of things. I love it. That guy in Back to the Future too,
is so perfect. I think he took his wallet. So now here's
my question, Uh are you entirely clear on what Chuan Khan's plan is exactly?
Uh? No, I was thinking about that. I thought that was
a me problem, and because I was kind of half watching, half kind
of studying the film the look of it and everything. But I don't remember
what the plot is then, I even now I don't know what it is.
Something something atomic bomb? Yeah, like but why I don't remember?
Because he wants to rule the world. There you go, Yeah, that'll
do there, that'll do. Pig This guy's mad. Yeah, I love
it. I do love how you know nowadays in our smartphone world, you
know, the idea of like the superhero has to rely on pneumatic tube based
communication. I was just gonna say, I mean, going back to what
we were saying earlier, I mean, that makes total sense. Like the
Shadow also has a series of interconnected pneumatic tubes set up all around New York,
you know, and it's people, you know, like it's secret network.
It makes sense for the technology of the time, absolutely, you know,
it's and it feels kind of fantastical and fun too, because who else
could pull that off. Yeah, back in at some point, maybe ten
fifteen years ago, they were talking about doing a Shadow slash doc Savage team
up movie and maybe and the Avenger. Also, that's another pulp character who
his whole deal is that his face is malleable, so he can like he
can just like mush his face into whatever kind of dark man esque. That
shot, by the way, where we just see this right here, that
feels like they just they got a bunch of shots of Alec Baldwin turning to
camera looking away from Canada. Sure inserted, Yeah that's funny. But yeah,
they were talking about doing like a doc Savage thing, and this is
the same problem. I'm like, do you know anything of Doc Savage other
than the name Doc Savage. I do not. That's the problem, right,
Yeah, this is for a while there, Dwayne Johnson was attached and
I know that is the Savage as the Rock. That's exactly. This is
all cool, It's all yeah. And he'd be like, yeah, the
like the paradigm of nineteen thirty has forgotten superheroes is about to change or whatever
whatever he said about the Shadow, about the Black Adam, It's like,
what, all right, man, we were with you the first time,
but I mean, this is this is the thing, right again. As
as a comic book fan, I'm aware of The Shadow and Doc Savage and
the Avenger only as characters who briefly had licensed comics published by you know,
the majors. You know, so DC uh did their you know, did
their versions of each of them. But I'm just like, these are not
present tense characters anymore, right, right, And that doesn't mean that the
back catalog does not have value, or or that you can't do a cool
reinvention totally, or I said that the Avenger was dark Man esque. I
meant that in reverse. It feels like Sam Raimi is obviously familiar with these
characters. Yeah, and that was his version of the Avenger, you know,
reinterpreted through sa Amrami Lynz. Yeah, the Avenger slashed the Shadow to
be honest, Yeah, yeah, I think that there's an opportunity to reinvent
them, but you have to do it in a way that assumes that nobody
knows who these characters are, or not enough people know who these characters are,
you know, totally totally Tommy gun. You know, it's funny.
There's when you go to Vegas, there's places you can go and fire machine
guns and all sorts of things. I got admit, I'd be tempted if
you could fire a Tommy gun. I'm like very curious, Like it's very
very representative of a of a specific moment in time. Yeah. Yeah,
there is something just kind of I don't know how to describe it, like
cool or just it's just so specific or so specific. Yeah, exactly,
and like you have to yell, you have to be like ah, it
makes me think like a flat top and Dick Tracy and you know exactly this
by the way, this is like kind of haunting the way these spinning around
the circle and yelling like that. It's kind of a yes. Well and
this shot right here, this overhead, is what made me think of the
Joker. Great shot. Yeah, yeah, I mean this is where you're
like, yeah, man, we got Tim Curry, you know, like
he I do. Somehow he calls the shadow a sissy. I found that
amusing. Yeah, that's funny. I was like, wow, that's a
very like you don't see that used as an insult anymore, right, No,
no, sissy? Yeah, what did you call me? Yeah,
nobody calls me sissy. That's the original version of Back to the Future too,
before they cooled it. I love it how they even went with chicken,
which even in like the eighties, that feels like so old school,
right, you know, like you a chicken and he's like, what the
hell? And yet arguably again because you can imagine him calling him a sissy,
right, totally like like at the time in the late eighties, that
would have been And yet we would watch that now and we'd kind of cringe
a little bit. Totally. There's something timeless, weirdly, even though it's
very much not timeless about Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good
point. See now, now the Shadow had Farley Claymore kill himself, just
like Shiuan Khan had those other guys kill themselves. I had the same thought.
I was like a little yep, ye, what differentiates them in it?
This? Are you that good? Now? I love this this whole
floor set up here? Yeah? And and what I was thinking, I
was like, who, like, how is that part of the infrastructure?
How do you explain it? It's like putting at a trap door when you're
talking to your contractor and he's like huh. But it's an interesting thing if
if you read up on the production design. They're like, well, they
they designed the hotel, and they're like, well, what goes at the
top of the hotel a restaurant? So they're like, well, it's a
rotating restaurant, and so there would be something in the floor that would allow
for right, yeah, I mean it goes a little topsy turvy, right,
which threw him off a little bit. But yes, no, that
that okay? That tracks right? Kind of works. Kind of works.
Kind of works. Have you ever been in a rotating restaurant? I wonder
if that actually be fun? I mean with a view? Yeah, yes,
I on my see right here, you see how his face again,
this is Daniel Baldwin face. He's just morphing between his brothers. Basically.
I Yeah, on my honeymoon in in Waikiki, we went to a rotating
restaurant. That's the I believe that's the one and only time. See.
But you can imagine you'd be sitting on the outer side of this circular thing
that's in the middle, because you'd want to be looking out windows observing landscape.
But here can you imagine if you're at the table in the middle of
this thing just spinning around, like, ah, it's not as fun.
You're just spinning, You're not seeing anything. Okay, So this here now
it's it's throughout the movie we're told how he doesn't have the skill to control
the dagger, and so the movie solution is, well, now he does.
Yes, like he doesn't overcome anything, you know what I mean?
Yes, yes, it's like the dagger's like, oh, okay, I
guess I'm gonna listen to him. Now, if he had some sort of
old negative trait that he finally you know, combated and overcame, now you
can control the dagger, I think, yeah, I think that would have
helped, right, because that's the climactic thing, that's what tips the scales
in his direction. And it's literally it's just now I can control it,
you know. Yeah. Yeah, his his arc isn't very pronounced. Yeah,
I mean I think the you know, we we allude to earlier where
when he when Cranston meets Showan Khan the first time, Cranston's like, oh,
you're a student of the Tolku too, and and she won CON's like
yeah, yeah I killed him or something to that effect, right, and
and he doesn't react at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm
like, well, this guy changed his life. He's obviously a big deal
to him. Yeah, so I could imagine, yeah, no, go
ahead, Well even if he was trying to keep his cool, you would
imagine like a little eye twitch or something, oh that gout, Yeah exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. I gotta say though, this is a pretty cool
look for Alec Baldwin here, minus the he's wearing like the crench coat and
stuff. But yeah, it's cool. Look, he looks cool right here.
Looks like something out of the Matrix here. I totally agree. Yeah,
the dual pistols. So now now all this the climax here. It
was supposed to be a big elaborate Hall of Mirrors. I'll uh, an
Orson Wells movie called The Lady from Shanghai, is that where that originates?
I feel like that's the most prominent early example, and certainly with this the
obvious Orson Wells connection with the Shadow, it seems like they most probably were
inspired by that, right yeah, sure, Or if like we go back
to cave paintings, like old stories on walls, it's like, wow,
they had a Hall of Mirrors storyline back then in cave man days. Yeah,
so it was supposed to be this very elaborate sequence which they ended up
doing practically nothing with because of the Hollywood earthquake. It's crazy, yep,
right in nineteen ninety three. When when was that? When was the January
ninety four? Okay, yeah, so yeah, you can imagine there they're
getting ready to wrap things up and then they lose I mean, I would
imagine, yes, probably the worst thing to happen to your Hall of Mirror
set is an earthquake. Is an earthquake? Yeah yeah, yeah, I
mean I'm just imagining the producers and directors just being they just walk in and
there's just it's just shattered glass everywhere, you know. Yeah, and their
shoulders slump, you know, so no time to rebuild it. Yeah,
and so they had to just just green screen it together. Yeah. That's
too bad. It's such a shame because I think, I don't I don't
think the movie recovers from the ending. And it's not their fault. It's
not their fault, you know, I know, you know, it's funny.
I think I might have. I don't remember how I got here.
It must have been through reading about this, but I was reading about Men
in Black two and all the changes they had to make because their climax involved
the Twin Towers. Yes, and it's like you just, you know,
a character just disappears, you know, the movie just kind of ends,
and you're like, what can we do? Like, we spent years developing
this, writing it, money, shooting it, whatever, and it's going
to come out as an incomplete thing that doesn't work. But what can we
do? That's yeah, I mean, there are things that happen that are
just outside of your control, right, and sometimes sometimes the movie can recover,
right. I think about like a Gladiator, for example, you know,
Oliver Reed passed away while they were making it, and his character was
supposed to survive until the end of the movie, right, and they found
a way amazingly to write in an exit for his character. That's so masterful.
You to be like, oh, you didn't have that planned originally,
right. Sometimes things work that way. Other times they don't. Yep.
Yeah, see you can tell that they just this is just green streaming,
green screening, you know. Yeah, it's kind of impressionistic. Yeah,
yeah, what a bummer. It is a bummer because because this, to
me, I'm like, well, his face should just be getting torn to
pieces. Yeah, a shoe on Khan. You know, it's funny.
I didn't even really think about it when I was watching it, But now
knowing what they were working against and the solution they had to come up with,
now I'm like, oh wow, okay, I mean it's it's little.
It's like, look, considering the circumstances, you sort of you you
pulled a rabbit out of a hat. But it's unfortunately it it's just it
doesn't work the way it should have, you know. Yeah. Yeah,
man, A shard of the mirror through the forehead. What a way to
get It's pretty violent. Oh, by the way, Yeah, I'm not
a fan of lobotomies. I'm just gonna say screen lobotomies. I go on
record, Oh dude, horrifying. Yeah I was. I gonna say,
Oh, the knife. So you did you listen to the how did this
get made? Episode? Uh? Yes? So they realized they googled it
that that knife is the same knife, exact same knife that is used in
the movie The Golden Child with Eddie Murphy. That's amazing, isn't that funny?
Because someone was like, is that the Golden Child knife? So like
during the show they go on Google and look it up and it's like,
yep, that is literally the knife from The Golden Child. Crazy, that
was a paramount, I believe. I wonder you just go to a prop
warehouse and face on it. Hey doesn't work. Yeah, this guy looks
familiar by the way he does. Yeah, the the psychologist here or whatever.
I can hear him almost being like, oh, yeah, he'll be
fine. This too seem seem like Shorthand from a different era, where it's
like, you know, somebody's crazy because they think they're Jadgar Hoover or whatever.
Totally yeah, And it's like, oh, oh, these crazy people
right rightmling up. Now, I think I know who this guy is.
I think he's in Edward Scissorhands. Oh okay, and he plays like a
like a doctor to observing someone's mental state. Okay, so he's got his
his his Yeah, I think I don't know. I'll see if I find
it. In that rotating shot, I'm it's a nice shot where where it's
the cameras spinning around them as they kiss. But I'm always like, is
that awkward for the actors to just be like kissing as this camera is just
going around him around? Yeah? I do like that. By the way,
how how will you know? And he's like, I'll know. I
think that's it's clever. It doesn't say the shadow. Nos. See that
shot right there, tell me that's not part of that. Same those other
shots of him that afternoon where they were waiting for someone to like get a
set. Yeah, yeah. Ready, So they're like, I'll just shoot
some glamour shots of them real fast. Yeah, doesn't feel like that spinning
towards camera, spinning away from camera, rising into camera, totally exactly right.
Yeah, But movie kissing scenes, I always think about that. I'm
like, is it awkward to them to just be like playing tonsil hockey.
Well, I think it could be because the camera is doing a lot of
business, so it's really dynamic and interesting for us, and we're looking at
a lot of things and the shot is changing, the image is changing,
we're moving in, we're moving out, whatever. But for them, they're
just literally standing still for yeah, thirty seconds straight, just kissing while yeah,
camera is doing all sorts of stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's weird.
Eh. I mean it depends what you're kissing. I suppose maybe,
I suppose sometimes it's a blessing. Uh, that's a good point. Oh
that is it. I looked it up. It's the guy from Edwards Scissorhands.
How funny. I just I could see him saying, because he gives
this long diagnosis, he doesn't know the world, he doesn't understand our ways,
And the cops like, yeah, but will he be all right?
And the doctor's like, oh, yeah, he'll be fine. Just seeing
his face, I could hear him saying that, and that that was like
the same year as this, wasn't it. Uh? I want to say
that was ninety Oh that was ninety Yeah, that was that was his hands.
So maybe him being cast in this was like a little little nod to
that. Yeah, he's good at that. You know. I found it
interesting too as we're wrapping up with the credits are going. But uh,
I read as a little bit of trivia that they made a super nes game
based on the shadow It was done, but yeah, he didn't release it
because of the disappointing box office. That's right. It's not wild. Yeah,
they it's it's you can download it now and play it. But it
seems just from what I've seen, it's just another one of the platformers from
that era. You know. Oh, I can picture it. I can,
you know, totally picture the side scrolly Batman or whatever it could be
anybody. Yeah. Now the song here original sin. This was later released
by This is Taylor Dancing It, but it was later released by Meatloaf real
like a year later. Yeah, but this this version has like shadow lyrics
where it's like who knows what you whatever, She's some some shadow related thing.
Interesting. That's kind of It's sort of like the I Don't Want to
Close my Eyes from AMAgeddon, where they had the country version and then they
had the Aerosmith version. You know, that's kind of fascinating, isn't it.
It's like, let's cover all bases, you know, like let's have
the hip hop. It's like from Conna Air, How Do I Live?
Yeah, totally yeah, which which like the the version in the movie is
sung by Tricia Yearwood. But I feel like the Leanne rhymes one is one
that more know, you know, Yeah, it's funny how that happened or
you know. Another example is, you know Selene Dion has if you asked
Me to m that was originally that was a James Bond song. It was
in License to Kill, Oh huh. But like the version that became popular
came a couple of years later when Selene Dion recorded it. Wow, it's
a fun random yeah yeah. I pulled up the video for the original sin
song. I mentioned earlier how you have certain footage that's different, and I'm
like, man, that talk about just like those old time music videos tied
into movies are just like an artifact from that time. I just don't think
we see those anymore. No, like Kiss from a Rose or something,
yeah, where it's like seal but there's actually the bat signal behind him mm
hm. And you got all the clips from the movie I mean the video
for this movie, for this song, I mean it spoils into the movie.
You literally see the mirror thing flying into shoon CON's head. Nah,
why would you put that in the video anyway? That's right, Like,
well, that's kind of it's kind of a big deal. Yeah, that's
weird. So this movie was made for a budget of forty million, I
believe, okay, which was substantial at the time. Wow, yeah,
right, I mean because Batman five years earlier, I think that cost what
like thirty million? I think. Okay, I think that's right, So
it was. It wasn't cheap, you know, but it ended up making
globally forty eight million, so I mean, there's no sugarcoating. It made
less than its budget domestic, which is weird to think about, right,
Like I was thinking about, like, you know, it made thirty seven
million dollars in the US or something thereabouts, and that just feels odd,
Like I can't imagine and a big budget movie like this topping out at that
amount today. No, And it feels I don't know, people went to
the movies more. I think people movies didn't cost as much, you'd be
willing to take greater risks checking something out, like let's see what this is,
and people just saw this and said, no, yeah it Well it
opened in second place. Yeah, oh it was Kenny g Sorry, I
see the credit going up. I knew it. There you go. It
had to be some sort of monetary reason to do that stupid decision. Yeah.
Anyway, it opened in second place, which you might say, like,
oh, well that's I'm glad to see Walter Gibson, by the way,
get credit there. Uh, but but it opened second to The Lion
King. Okay, fair, and so I'm sure universe is like, okay,
okay, that's fine. Second you know, that's okay. But then
like a week later, Forrest Gump came out. O jeez. So I
mean it just got clobbered like that. I was thinking about it. I
was like, there was a chance where this movie could have hung in there,
but you basically had your family viewing bases covered. Oh this was a
colossal summer. Yes, True Lies was also the same month, if I'm
not mistaken. Yeah. Yeah, so there's your top three of that year.
You got Lion King, Forrest Gump, True Lies in whatever order,
Get speed out there somewhere. Speed Yeah, so Speed and true Lies covered
your R rated action Forrest Gump and Lion King got your family movie. So
there's just no room in the market for this. So it's not hard to
see why it tanked. And again, I remember the full on marketing push.
I remember that logo that we see at the very end there with the
shadow, you know, his eyes and stuff, that they were trying to
make that a thing. They were trying to make fetch happen with that exactly.
Yeah, yeah, you know, I remember the toys and everything,
and yeah, it just it just was not meant to be. But I
will say I will reiterate what I said earlier. I think there's there's a
way. I think the ingredients are all there to do something with. I
completely agree with that. I don't know why it didn't congeal entirely. I
could sit here and think about it, but I at the end of the
day, I just don't feel like it did. Yeah. But in our
series of looking at these movies from the nineties, of these like sort of
dustier old heroes, and I don't know them, I'm watching them for the
first time. Like, I don't think I'd go out of my way to
recommend this to anybody if I'm being honest, r who hasn't seen it,
But if people are interested in that sort of specific thing, yeah, I
think if you're delving into these movies, then yeah, you should obviously include
this one in the mix too. It's an interesting artifact for sure. And
for people who love the character, I think there's a lot for them to
chew on here, to be like I know that, Oh there's that thing.
Oh great, the thing I love. Like they didn't compromise it or
change it. I mean, it's all there. I agree. I think
certainly, if nothing else, it is a respectful adaptation of the mythology that
fans of the character can look at and say, yeah, no, this
is this is that thing that I know. And if nothing else, you
know, box office and whatever notwithstanding, you say, this is the same
thing I said about Dick Tracy and and the Phantom. You know, it's
like they didn't do a sequel. It's like, yeah, but you got
this one. Oh yeah, And you know, and as I said the
same thing with Dick Tracy, I'm like, well, do you need a
sequel? I feel like they covered everything you need is in that first movie.
I mean, I agree, you know, and I say the same
this like, if you like the shadow, well this gave you that.
Yeah, and that's hey, you know, that's why I'm it comes to
a conclusion, right, like I can respect that as opposed to you know,
so many of these things that that that very clumsily set up a cliffhanger
that leaves the story unresolved, that will never be resolved because they got ahead
of their skis you know, right, yeah they made the one. But
with that said, hey, you know, if if you've got any other
artifacts from from the nineties you want us to dip into, let us know.
I gotta be honest, Brian, I've been having fun going through these,
and one of these days I'd love to do The Lone Ranger from twenty
thirteen, which, as you know, is a movie that I am a
defender of. I know, and I am ready to go back. I
didn't dislike it, but I think I was a little underwhelmed by it or
something, and I remember it was totally into that Gore Rabinski makes a two
and a half hour Disney Adventure era. It was too long, but I
do remember the ending being super rousing, like the train sequence. So I'm
curious to go back that one and the Legend of Tarzan. Those are the
ones that I kind of I put those as a little vestigial examples of these
type of movies. Okay, yeah, you've mentioned that one too, So
I and I tend to enjoy these kinds of things. Discovering these movies that
I missed. Nineties movies I missed are my jam So there you go.
Yeah, yeah, and who knows, maybe maybe we'll end up talking through
them. But hey, let us know your thoughts on on this on this
commentary track for The Shadow. You can email us at Movie Film Podcast at
gmail dot com. You can also hit like on our Facebook page Facebook dot
com slash movie filone Podcast message us there also, you know, as I
said repeatedly throughout this, we take suggestions, So you know, if you've
got maybe we missed one and you want us to delve into it, you
never know, maybe maybe we will, maybe we'll take that on. You
never know. But with that on behalf of my partner Brian Hall. My
name is Zachie A. Son. This has been our commentary track for the
Shadow. Thanks for listening.