WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:17.039 Shadow Knows. Welcome, friends and podcast podcast and time John Jack again Bryan. 2 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:27.760 They're talking about groups in the podcast on Ready. Who Knows what powers 3 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:31.800 stir in the night? What if you did? It's in the past. 4 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:39.719 I do what I do to fight back the evil Insidement? Alan Baldwin, 5 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:49.240 John Loan, Penelope Ann Miller and Tim Corey. Who Knows what evil works 6 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:59.600 in the Hearts of the Man? The Shadow? Welcome to a movie film 7 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:00.920 commentary your track. My name is Zaki has Sign. I'm here with Brian 8 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:04.519 Hall. Hey, how's it going, Zachi? Brian, have you ever 9 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:12.040 wondered what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Every time I pass someone 10 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.079 on the street, I'm sort of like, what's going on in there? 11 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:23.239 See? Some people wonder? Other people know? Yeah, who's such person? 12 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:26.959 Why? That would be the Shadow? Brian? The Shadow knows? 13 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:30.799 He does know. You know, it's funny, maybe just because we're sort 14 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:36.599 of movie inclined people, But I right off the bat, I'll say I've 15 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:40.400 not seen this movie until about two nights ago, the first time I watched 16 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:45.159 it, first time ever in thirty years. But I know the who knows 17 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.319 what evil lurks in the Hearts of Men, The Shadow Knows, which I 18 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:52.400 only know because of this film, and I got to give it to the 19 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.359 marketing people. It got in there. It's in there somewhere. And that 20 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:01.040 line, by the way, originated with Orson Wells. Like his his voice, 21 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:04.920 it was his voice. He was the original voice of the Shadow in 22 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.759 the in the nineteen thirties radio series. That makes sense. I mean what 23 00:02:07.800 --> 00:02:12.960 a voice, that's right. Yeah, not so much the body, but 24 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:15.879 the voice, right, Yeah, did not have the body to play the 25 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:20.000 Shadow? Yeah, yeah, he had a body for radio. I was 26 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:22.039 just gonna say, it makes me think of that. Yeah, that's saying. 27 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:28.000 But he did, he sure did. And a voice for a Transformers 28 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:34.199 that's true, right, one of his last performances, if not his his 29 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:38.840 actual last performance. Yeah. Yeah, But but enough of enough about Orson 30 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:44.919 Wells in his morbid obesity. He about that? Yeah, enough of that 31 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:50.280 guy. What did he ever do with regard him to the film? Yeah, 32 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.759 it's exactly. No, we're here to talk about the Shadow, which 33 00:02:54.159 --> 00:03:04.719 which Brian it's not the magnificent Amberson. But this movie celebrated it's thirtieth anniversary 34 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:07.360 this summer. I think as we record this, just a week or so 35 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:10.840 away from the time of recording. This will be its thirtieth anniversary. And 36 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:15.639 this is a commentary request we've gotten several times over the last few years, 37 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:23.319 especially as we were working our way through the litany of retro superhero movies from 38 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:28.080 the nineteen nineties, which is a specific subgenre all its own. Yep, 39 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:34.240 yep, enough entries to qualify as a genuine genre in the nineties, that's 40 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:39.280 right. So we've cycled through Dick Tracy and The Rocketeer and the Phantom. 41 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:45.800 I would include the mascow Zoro just for shits and gets yeah, And so 42 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.479 the only one remaining was The Shadow. So here we are. Wow, 43 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.199 is this really the last one? Is there any other one that I'm forgetting? 44 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:58.360 Like not from the nineties, The Misadventures of Lulu or something like some 45 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:02.120 radio program from nineteen three, which which don't you want to see? Like 46 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:12.479 the the the the the edgy Netflix reinvention of Little Lulu. Yes, yes, 47 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:17.480 I do. She's she's like an ex prostitute or something, and she's 48 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:23.959 she's trying to you know, defeat to drug runners or something. I don't 49 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.480 know, I don't know what that looks like. Totally Jenny Ortega. Yeah, 50 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.319 yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know what, actually, let's let's 51 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:35.240 get on that after this mid the Netflix. Yeah, uh no, so 52 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:40.160 this is this is the first time you've seen this movie. So that's that's 53 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:43.399 actually a conversation I'm very interested in having. This is a movie I've seen, 54 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:46.360 you know, a couple of times over the last thirty years. I 55 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.639 would say inevitably, when I would go through sort of the retro movies with 56 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:53.199 my kids, I would end up, you know, folding in the Shadows. 57 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:58.920 I've seen it there. But I would say that the prominence of this 58 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:03.319 movie is for a certain generation, it was their exposure to this character. 59 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:08.040 Like if he is known at all, it is because of this film, 60 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:13.959 right. And I would also say it's this film is like the last time, 61 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.279 arguably the last time that the Shadow had any degree of like cultural penetration. 62 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:21.639 Yeah, I'd agree with that. I can't think of anything post this. 63 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:27.040 Yeah, so hey, we're gonna have a fun conversation hopefully, And 64 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:30.279 why don't we get cued up. We'll let our sponsors do their thing if 65 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:32.319 anybody wants to watch along with us. There is only one cut. It's 66 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.879 the nineteen ninety four version, So go ahead and cue up while our sponsors 67 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:49.120 say this, and we're back and I'm queued up. So what I have 68 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:53.079 done? So depending on which version you watch, there's gonna be like the 69 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:56.720 FBI warning and there's like a modern universal logo and then the old timey want 70 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:02.560 I have a queued up to just before the the older universal logo that leads 71 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:08.800 right into the movie. Yep, same, Brian saying with you. Okay, 72 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:11.439 so we'll do the usual thing. We'll hit play. Uh, we 73 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:15.759 will go one, two three play, and here we go one two three 74 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:25.959 play. All right, you hear that universal music? Yes, as soon 75 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.560 as I see this logo, I just hear I hear it, you know, 76 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:31.040 yeah, yeah, oh same same, you know, just seeing this 77 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:36.560 kind of reminded me of Dark Man. Yeah, for some reason, similar 78 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.600 era. But I was gonna say, yeah, I mean, I guess 79 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:42.959 right off the bat. I mean we can say that Sam Raimi was trying 80 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.120 to make the Shadow for a really long time but was denied us aned more 81 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.560 than once. He tried, I guess in the eighties and then had to 82 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.360 make Dark Man as a result, his own version of the Shadow, and 83 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:56.680 then he tried again in the two thousands, and there was not enough interest. 84 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:58.800 I suppose. I'm like, can we just let the man make his 85 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.680 shadow moving? For goodness? Oh man, he would crush it, right, 86 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.360 he would crush it. Yeah, I would love that. I mean, 87 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:09.839 well, speaking of Netflix, I mean, I don't know. Maybe 88 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:13.839 let Sam Raimi make the Netflix film of The Shadow like his Passion project. 89 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:15.360 We can finally get it out there. I'm sure it would. Yeah, 90 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:26.279 do the version where he's an ex prostitute and he's yeah, so so I 91 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.480 want to say, right, right, right off the bat, right off 92 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:33.279 the bat. The music for this movie elevates it maybe an entire letter grade 93 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:40.319 totally. I miss scores like this, Yeah, right, one of Jerry 94 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:45.160 Goldsmith's great, great scores. And I think the the theme that he created 95 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:49.399 for The Shadow is so distinctive that it was later utilized in the trailers for 96 00:07:49.560 --> 00:08:00.199 The Saint starring Dale Kilmer. Sorry going off on my own sort of be 97 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.120 amused direction there, but yes, no, you know, it's funny because 98 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.519 I don't remember the music, because I only remember all the prosthetics on Val 99 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:09.600 Kilmer's face in that trailer that we need to watch some time because it's gonna 100 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:16.560 happen that happened, and this is a movie with some interesting prosthetics on faces. 101 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.720 Actually, what we're talking about that the Shadow as a character. I 102 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:28.519 was aware of him going into this movie. I just I distinctly remember when 103 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:30.839 this movie came out. I was not like, who's the Shadow. I 104 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.440 was like, I knew of the Shadow? Now, how is that? 105 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:37.960 Well? You know, during the eighties there had been a couple of different 106 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:43.919 comic book series published by DC, and I had not read very many of 107 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:46.480 them, but I knew of them, you know what I mean. I 108 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:48.840 knew, I knew what he looked like. I had a general sense, 109 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:54.120 so I was I was definitely like, oh, they're making a movie of 110 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.840 the Shadow. You know, I knew that, But I would suspect that 111 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:01.279 I'm not the norm. And speaking of not the norm, actually I know 112 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:07.360 you have a particular thing about long fingernails. Yeah, not a fan. 113 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:11.159 It's kind of seeing Alec Baldwin in this fright wig with them with with his 114 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.519 with his drug nails, you know. I mean it's a choice to start 115 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:20.600 the movie that way, absolutely, and coke nail utility aside. I don't 116 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:24.279 see the functionality of having nails like that. I mean just try to imagine 117 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:28.240 going to the bathroom with nails like that. How does that even work? 118 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:31.159 You know? So I I was I was actually thinking about that, like, 119 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.919 why would he want nails that way? It feels like it would make 120 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:39.679 life harder. Yeah, it's it's it's a I guess it was the fashion 121 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.200 at the time, I guess. Or it's like it's maybe even like a 122 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:48.559 shorthand for a type of I don't even know, like creepy figure or something. 123 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:54.200 Yeah, dark figure. Well we know he's creepy because he just said, 124 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.080 hey, shoot through my friend who's like a father to me. This 125 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.759 is a hell of an opening, you know, knowing that he is going 126 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.679 to be your hero for the rest of the film. Yeah, I would 127 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:07.960 say it's a what the hell of an opening? In my opinion, I 128 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:13.440 would say it was a mistake to open the movie with all this ying ko 129 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:20.120 business. Well it's funny then, because who he becomes like for the rest 130 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:24.559 of the film is basically yeah, we go from this one extreme of like 131 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.919 what a dick, yeah, to like a Star Wars scroll and then he 132 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:33.279 became not a dick. He became the shadow and it we're just there. 133 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.120 We go. Now he's a hero ready. You know, by the way, 134 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.200 remember the days when you're on when your action heroes had just like a 135 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.840 friggin carpet on their chest. Oh man, I'm so glad you brought that 136 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:48.440 up. I actually thought about that. And I don't know if people are 137 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.440 waxing or like body physiology has changed over the years, but I'm like, 138 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:56.159 you just don't see that much anymore. That used to be sort of like 139 00:10:56.840 --> 00:10:58.879 that's a man, he has a carpet. Yeah, I mean, I 140 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:01.000 mean there was a time when it's like, no, you had to have 141 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:05.759 a wookie body. Yes, it's like, yeah, you know, that's 142 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.120 that's not a thing anymore. Alec Baldwin Worth managing. So this is five 143 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:13.080 years after Batman, and there there's just Batman all over this thing, like 144 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:16.480 this is a universal being, Like, how can we Batman our own Batman? 145 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.919 Batman? Actually I made a note of that where I think it still 146 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.440 has that mentality where with Batman it was like, we don't even need the 147 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.320 name on the poster. We're just gonna put a logo and you're gonna you're 148 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.399 gonna show up. And it worked and then the next year Disney was like, 149 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.519 oh yeah, we're gonna show you dig Tracy. We don't even need 150 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.080 to put the title on the poster. We're just gonna put the logo. 151 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:46.240 Mixed results. But then it's like a couple of years later, they're like, 152 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:48.000 oh, yeah, we're gonna come up with a distinctive logo, the 153 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:52.080 Shadow logo. I think we're gonna include We're gonna include the title. But 154 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:56.399 but but but you know, it's just like a it's like a scowling eyebrow 155 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:01.480 and a big schnauz. Yeah, it's very distinctive. And you know they 156 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:05.039 meant it as like a punctuation like yem, shadow here it comes. This 157 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:07.919 will be on T shirts. Yes, you know, it didn't didn't quite 158 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:13.720 pan out that way. But Alec Baldwin was one of the people who had 159 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:18.840 tested for Batman in eighty nine and at the time this film came out, 160 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.360 you know, he was married to Kim Bay Singer, and he told he 161 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.879 told about this in interviews. How you know, kids would come up to 162 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.000 his wife very excited to meet Vicky Vale and so the idea of being part 163 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:33.639 of kind of a superhero thing in that Vein was appealing to him, and 164 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:37.399 so that's what got him on board. David Kepp wrote the script. This 165 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:41.120 is one year after Jurassic Park. David Kep came at it as a fan, 166 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.960 and he incorporated aspects of many different versions of the Shadow. So, 167 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.200 I mean, you know, we were talking about this a little bit at 168 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:54.759 the top of this discussion. The Shadow was in a radio in a radio 169 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.639 show which you know Orson Wells's voice. But even before that, he was 170 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:07.840 in detective novels by Walter Gibson, and he was created as kind of like 171 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:13.519 a wrap around character like the host, like kind of like the crypt keeper. 172 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:20.759 Oh. Interesting, And this was in radio. In radio shows like 173 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.799 oh, the Shadow would introduce a story and then people are like, go 174 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:26.840 to the magazine like, well, where's the Shadow? We want to read 175 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:33.600 stories about the Shadow. So they created the Shadow two. They fleshed out 176 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:39.159 his backstory and whatnots as a response to fan demand. Fascinating. So, 177 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:46.080 I mean, do you know what attributes he would like mention during those wrap 178 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.159 arounds or interstitials or whatever that made him so compelling and people want to know 179 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.840 more? I mean, was he like a crime fighter? I mean that 180 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.759 all came after the fact. I mean, I think I think the Shadow 181 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:03.240 initially was was just the person introducing the stories and then and then it became 182 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.440 like, oh, let's let's it's it's like Max Headroom or something where it's 183 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.559 like they you know, I feel like he was like a an ad campaign. 184 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:15.279 Oh okay, so here here's the crawl. Ye okay, So now 185 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:18.360 this is We've talked about this in movies before, where sometimes you montage passed 186 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.840 the important stuff, right, yes, well here they they've done a text 187 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:28.080 crawl past the montage. Yes, yes, yes, yes, this is 188 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:33.919 like YadA, YadA, YadA. It's purest for him because I'm like, 189 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:39.639 where the character starts out, he's entirely bad m hm. And so then 190 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.159 to then come in on this point where he's I mean, this is like 191 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:48.200 the essence the opening sequence of Batman eighty nine, right, oh totally yeah, 192 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.679 yeah, crime, and it's very well, it's it's effectively staged. 193 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.080 The music. This this sequence I think works very well. I'd say this 194 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.960 sequence is the one that stuck most in my mind when the movie was over. 195 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:03.879 Oh absolutely, no, I think it's yeah, in terms of like 196 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:09.159 the shadow, it's the best scene in the film depicting the shadow. Yeah, 197 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:11.799 yeah, but I mean he I think the movie should have started here 198 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:16.960 though I do too actually, and then I don't know if you need flashback 199 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:20.200 or maybe he can explain his story to someone, but I don't know, 200 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.720 to tease us like that, like this is where he started and then he 201 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.519 learned how to become invisible. Anyway, moving on, you know, like 202 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:31.360 what it's crazy and just that, I mean, was the text always what 203 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:33.679 they intended to do, or like could they not afford the film the thing 204 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:39.240 that they wanted, Like it feels like something that they pull together in editing. 205 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.759 That's what it feels like to me. That's what it feels like for 206 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.639 sure. Yeah. So this character, Roy Tam he is a character from 207 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.720 the Shadow novels. He's one of the Shadows many agents. And that's one 208 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:58.879 thing this film actually does pretty well, is it preserves the general you know, 209 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:03.639 ethos of those books. However, the specifics of this sequence are more 210 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.120 closely reflective of another Shadow agent called Harry Vincent, who's not in this movie, 211 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.879 but the first Shadow novel, which is called The Living Shadow, involves 212 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.840 him. The Shadow is rescuing, not even rescuing. There's there's a guy 213 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.399 named Harry Vincent who wants to commit suicide. And the shadow appears and says, 214 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:22.600 I'm gonna save your life and you'll be working for me and dah da 215 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.879 da da. So they sort of wove that in here and they put that. 216 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.200 They gave that to the Roy tamp character. It's played by sab Shimono. 217 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:34.679 I kind of like that. By the way, I understand why you 218 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.279 would do this. He needs to square off against you know, the criminals 219 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:44.440 of the night kind of a thing. But there's something I like him real 220 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.519 quick. That shot that we just saw. We have this deep focus where 221 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.679 a character in the foreground and the background is just in focus. You'll see 222 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.559 Russell okayhoo directed. He does that throughout this movie, which I think is 223 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.200 really cool. Yeah yeah, yeah, No is this movie's got style despair. 224 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:00.000 Yeah, anyway, sorry you were saying, No, I just feel 225 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.880 like I like that he then saved someone and gave them purpose and aiding him. 226 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:10.079 Yeah, And I don't know that I felt that with his allies in 227 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:14.319 this movie, it almost felt like they were obligated, you know, like 228 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.279 sort of like geez, yeah, like really now I got it, okay, 229 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:21.519 you know, or even with Peter Boyle, you know, I actually 230 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.559 I listened to the how did this get made? And they were I thought 231 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:26.119 this was a funny observation. They're like, yeah, Peter Boyle is driving 232 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:32.279 him around in this you know, pimped out cab that clearly feels designed for 233 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:34.319 the Shadow, but he also has to work in that cab, like he's 234 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:38.039 also taking affairs on the side, thinking that it's not like he's employed by 235 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:41.880 the Shadow. He's not getting paid, like he's just I don't know, 236 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.640 Well, yeah, technically, so technically he is employed by the Shadow, 237 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:51.000 because that's what when when you become a Shadow agent, you're you're basically taking 238 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.000 care of You're like a made man. See. I wish I had understood 239 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.680 that a little bit better, because I like the idea of him building this 240 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.799 network of people. You know, they have maybe a little little debt to 241 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.000 him, but also now they get to have some sort of purpose in their 242 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:07.039 they're helping helping him others. I don't know, I didn't really get that. 243 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.480 Yeah, and well, and and while we're here and you know, 244 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.759 we're seeing the Shadow us his powers, you know, a clouding men's mind. 245 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:21.200 This is one of the major differences between uh the novels and the radio 246 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.839 show where Oh and by the way real quick before you even get to that. 247 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.880 This shot right here when we when we when we well not not the 248 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.400 shadow shot this right here, the shadow first of a great, great introduction 249 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.400 to the character. He looks exactly like on those old pulp magazine covers. 250 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:44.160 But what's interesting is if you look at the next shot. Now the shadow 251 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:49.240 here is wearing a trench coat mm hmm. And then in the next shot 252 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:55.519 when he when he when he pulls out his his pistols, there he's wearing 253 00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:00.000 a cape. You see this, That's so funny. Isn't that weird? 254 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.079 So I was like, well, that's kind of odd. Now here's the 255 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:06.000 interesting thing. Just by chance, in prep for this, I pulled up 256 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:11.480 the music video for the Taylor Dane song which plays over the end credits okay, 257 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.960 which is original Sin, and they have that shot, that shot of 258 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.960 the Shadow, that introduction shot where he's wearing the trench coat, but he 259 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:23.480 has a cape like flowing behind him like CGI. And I'm like, did 260 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:30.000 they just forget to put that in the movie? Maybe right, because it's 261 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:32.880 in that music video. If you pull it up, it's that same shot, 262 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:36.480 the introduction shot of the Shadow. The cape is flowing behind him like 263 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:41.000 flapping in the wind, you know, and maybe a music video was given 264 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.759 attention after you completed the film. Yeah, and yeah, it just got 265 00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:48.640 past them. Wow. Weird, right, that is weird. That shot 266 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.559 is great. You know, it's a really long shot with them sort of 267 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.680 dollying into him down the street. And I was thinking, like, nowadays, 268 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.759 I don't think a film would have the patience to have that entire shot. 269 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.400 But I was like, yes, that is that's cool. Let's strike 270 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.319 it is. It is a cool shot. We get to see Alec Baldwin 271 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:15.599 dressed as Billy Baldwin. Okay, basically the shadow schnas there. It's it's 272 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.000 okay. I want to talk about that. But before we get past, 273 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.759 I have to say the whole concrete you know, a guy having concrete on 274 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:26.000 his feet being thrown in water. Yeah, truly gives like a chill up 275 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:30.839 my spine. It's terrifying. That is terrifying, terrifying it Having said that, 276 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.559 yes, okay, so the makeup where he has a I mean an 277 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:38.400 entirely different face, a brow knows whatever. Yeah, what is that? 278 00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.319 Okay, So so that the look what we see here, the look of 279 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:48.599 the shadow, that's as established in the old pulp magazine covers. You know, 280 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.440 if you if you google, you can see old timey, really beautiful 281 00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:00.559 painted art. You know. Now my thought is, well, the scarf 282 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.759 being positioned under your nose seems like it would take it takes effort to have 283 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.559 to do that, right, It doesn't seem particularly comfortable. Now, this 284 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:15.119 film establishes that the Shadow is I'm assuming, like hypnotically altering the appearance of 285 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:18.359 his face. So that's what I kind of assume, So he wouldn't be 286 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.920 recognized. Yeah, so you'd be like, man, the Shadow's got a 287 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:30.160 big old schnase and and Lamont Cranston does not have said schnas right right, 288 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:37.240 Therefore the two cannot be the same. Yeah. Yeah, But I think 289 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.440 ultimately what it comes down to is they wanted him to look like the character 290 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:45.319 from the books, and rather than give give you know, Baldwin a prosthetic 291 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:49.119 prebosis, they just kind of they just said, oh, you know, 292 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.440 let the Shadow have that, you know. Yeah, I mean, at 293 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.000 the end of the day, it's it is what it is, But it's 294 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:03.240 prompted some wandering thoughts, like he kind of looks like a dick Tracy villain 295 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.240 yeah, I think absolutely he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and 296 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.319 and so so worth mentioning in the In the novels, Lamont Cranston is not, 297 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:17.519 in fact, the shadows alter ego. Mmm, so Lamont Cranston is 298 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:23.240 a guy. He's a separate guy who who the Shadow resembles, so occasionally 299 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:27.759 he uses like when Lamont Cranston is out of town, through mutual agreement, 300 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:33.359 the Shadow pretends to be Lamont Cranston. Oh that's interesting. Yeah, this 301 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.640 is in the novels. I was gonna say, like, knowing that this 302 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.920 show radio show is different in the novels, it's like that, And I 303 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.279 was just saying, knowing that the Shadow was a huge inspiration for Batman, 304 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.400 Yeah, it was kind of interesting. It's almost like watching John Carter of 305 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:55.000 Mars in a way where it's you see all these things that later become the 306 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.759 iconic things we associate with Batman, but they've been refined, Yes, you 307 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.079 know what I mean. So, like, yeah, just having a straight 308 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:06.759 up alter ego feels refined versus well, he looks kind of like a guy 309 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:08.359 who sometimes goes out of town, So I'll be that guy occasionally, you 310 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:11.680 know. Like it's which I mean, it is what it is. But 311 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:15.240 it's just funny seeing how that has been refined over time. Yeah. So 312 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:19.359 in the in the novels, he's a he's a guy named Kent Allard who 313 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:25.240 who was like a flying ace in World War One, and he he did 314 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:30.400 spying for for you know, various missions and this and that, and he 315 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.519 picked up a whole bag of espionage tricks and he utilizes that along with you 316 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:40.319 know, you know, things he's learned in the Orient or what have you. 317 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:42.880 The radio show just dispensed with all that and said, no, he's 318 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:48.720 Lamont Kranston, right, So this film sort of weaves together elements of both. 319 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:53.119 Yeah, and and you know, oh, by the way, when 320 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:56.200 we come in on the club, I had this reaction where we kind of 321 00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:59.799 the camera panic comes down and we'll see the singer, and I was like, 322 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.400 oh, here, we're about to see Malaura Harden and then it's not 323 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.160 Laura Hard. Oh she's the singer in the Rocketeer, you know here. 324 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.640 Yeah, yeah, now, I know, I know you've had a b 325 00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:14.839 in your bonnet lately about saxophone music. I think it's weird, the weird 326 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:19.720 Kenny g music that's playing right now. Zachie I literally have that written down 327 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:26.079 in my I put fascinating that they're playing a Kenny G style song over this 328 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.720 dramatic moment in the club, because it's like, why wouldn't you license some 329 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.839 old song or play an actual old song. I mean, you've got the 330 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.960 song playing already, you know. I know, it's very weird. It 331 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.200 almost feels like it is Kenny G. And they thought that would be something 332 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:44.200 that would help sell the soundtrack. It's very That's one of those things I 333 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.319 do get hung up on when I watch a movie, and real real quick. 334 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:49.920 By the way, the uncle Wayne Wright character says after those years in 335 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:53.720 the war when you disappeared for seven years or whatever, that's an allusion less 336 00:24:53.759 --> 00:25:00.240 to the ying coo stuff than to what the Shadow was doing after the war, 337 00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:06.440 where he kind of, you know, took on this persona and began 338 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:08.559 his journey into the shadow. So I find it interesting that the film is 339 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:14.079 kind of alluding to the backstory but not really you know, totally, which, 340 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:17.400 by the way, I love this. I love the I don't know 341 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.960 the way they're depicting his sort of mind control here him going back into the 342 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:25.240 shadow. I mean it's and his eyes are still kind of figgling a little 343 00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:26.880 bit. There's a little bit of light on there. Now. I was 344 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:29.000 just gonna say, the one thing that I get hung up on when I 345 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.839 watch movies that take place in the past is when they don't make their haircuts 346 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.880 look right, or they'll play music that clearly sounds like it was made on 347 00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:41.359 a keyboard. Yeah, it's just like, yeah, like, let's just 348 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.200 you know, just put some gel in their hair and slick it back like 349 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.160 you know. Oh and Jonathan Winters, by the way, this was kind 350 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.240 of his summer because he was in The Flintstones like a month before this. 351 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.000 Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah, he had a good summer at Universal. 352 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.960 Yeah. Now I have to say, rewatching this recently, I was 353 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:07.640 like, I was thoroughly enjoying all of the scenes with Alec Baldwin as Lamont 354 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:11.920 Cranston. I found him this is like at that moment where he was just 355 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.920 a charming movie star, you know, and he's very charming, and I 356 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.160 was like, whenever he became the shadow, I was less interested. This 357 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.599 was the experience I had. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I can 358 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.680 kind of see that, Like, I love all the dialogue scenes with John 359 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.000 Loan. I'm like, just give me a movie of them too, just 360 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:33.240 tossing banter back and forth. Yeah, well, he's very speaking to what 361 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:36.759 I was just saying, I mean he fits into this time period. He's 362 00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:40.240 very debonair, Like he plays this really well in a way that's fun to 363 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:45.839 watch. Yes, yeah, he's kind of leaning into the camp I feel 364 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.119 like a little bit you know, I think, I think And he even 365 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.319 said, you know, kind of a little bit tongue in cheek. Yeah, 366 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:55.640 yeah, yeah, especially there's that exchange he has later with the villain 367 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:57.920 and yep, the way it's a little more handy that I feel like any 368 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.440 other parts of the movie, but in a delightful way. Yeah. Penelope 369 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.359 and Miller, by the way, who we just saw her, you and 370 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.440 I we were watching Adventures in Babysitting, I you know, yeah, she's 371 00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:15.880 she's Elizabeth Sho's friend who's stranded at the bus station. But she like, 372 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.240 oh she's she I mean speaking of I don't know what the word is, 373 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.519 not debonair, but like she looks straight out of this time period, right, 374 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:25.759 well, and then she was in The Artist as well, right, 375 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:29.519 I mean, just she's got the look. Yeah that's right. Yeah, 376 00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:30.599 I love her. I mean she I had a huge rush on her when 377 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.200 I was younger, and I had a huge question on Naomi Wats too, 378 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.759 So I'm realizing, like I have a type. I was noticing how much 379 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:41.160 she resembles Naomi Wats in this very much. So Yeah, but she's good, 380 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:47.200 Like it feels like she knows what's going on here. Also, you 381 00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:52.759 know, yeah, the the addition of sort of psychic powers from Margot Lane, 382 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.079 that's something that the film did. Uh that that was not the case 383 00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:00.160 in the in the in the radio show, in the novels. But I 384 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.200 think I think it works. I like it. Wait, that's only in 385 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:07.039 this film. That's only in this film. Yeah, that is a wild 386 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:11.519 choice. Yeah, right, that's a wild choice. You know, thinking 387 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.079 about it now, I wasn't quite sure how I felt about it when it 388 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:21.880 was over. I but now that you're saying that and kind of looking at 389 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:22.759 it and everything, you know, with the sound off, I'm like, 390 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:27.000 I almost wish they had leaned even harder into that stuff. That's that's I 391 00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:34.039 agree with that because it it it might have been more effective as as something 392 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.519 that you utilize in the climax of the film in some way, shape or 393 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:42.759 form. Yeah, yeah, but I think I think the idea, you 394 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:48.200 know, and I do appreciate that for the most part, the Margo character 395 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:53.359 is not there just as Eye Candy, and she's presented as more of a 396 00:28:53.599 --> 00:29:00.200 foil or somebody on equal footing with with with the Cranston Yeah, just you 397 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.880 know, as opposed to certainly Vicky Vale, who spends you know, about 398 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.519 two thirds of Batman screaming, you know, sure. Yeah. The production 399 00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:15.000 design is very appealing to me in this film, you know, not just 400 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:18.000 the interiors like this set here, but even the exteriars, the way they 401 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:22.640 use matte paintings and whatnot, and bigatures and things like that to really evoke 402 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:33.400 nineteen thirties New York. I know I'm biased because we or I'll just say 403 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.279 it for myself. I complain sometimes about CGI not blending well or looking really 404 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:42.240 flat or fuzzy or whatever. Yeah, but this stuff doesn't blend either, 405 00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:45.400 you know what I mean, that's right to a younger person's eye, that 406 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.599 this would be their version of that. I think, just not fitting, 407 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.359 not jiving together. But like I love it. I don't know, there's 408 00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.759 like a weird tactile on this to it. And I even this being a 409 00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:02.720 throwback kind of movie, I feel like it suits it. Yeah. Well, 410 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:07.200 what's kind of interesting is is some of the the bigatures that they constructed 411 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:12.000 to evoke the you know, kind of this Fantasia version of New York were 412 00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:17.799 utilized for Batman Forever and Batman and Robin for a Gothic city. Yeah, 413 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:21.720 so that makes a lot of sense. So seeing Max right here just makes 414 00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:26.519 me wish that when this sarcophagus opened, it was alf you thought you could 415 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:33.519 escape me? Ha hey, Willie. When I saw his name in the 416 00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:38.920 opening credits, I was like, no way. I really was like wait, 417 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.000 really, I was disappointed. He was only in this scene. He 418 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:47.559 just has one lane. He's just like, well, we have to open 419 00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:53.519 this sarcophagus, and I don't know what what are we doing here? You 420 00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.119 know. I had a similar or I had a feeling where I was watching 421 00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.279 it like expect like, well, what's he going to be like a guy 422 00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:03.039 from the thirties, But no, man, he's Willy. He's will He's 423 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.440 just Willy. That's him. I didn't order this, it just right. 424 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.759 He was. He was a regular on the Norm MacDonald sitcom. Oh, 425 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:17.720 and he's he's he's Norm's boss. So it's just Norm, What are you 426 00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:21.359 doing? Norm? You know, and it's just like just swap out Alf 427 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:25.079 and Norm. You know, you know what. No one does it better. 428 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.079 That's right, no one does it better. He found a niche and 429 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:36.400 he defined it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm really 430 00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:40.799 things are crystallizing for me as I'm rewatching this right now, and I my 431 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:45.200 feeling was, I have to say, I tend to be a sucker for 432 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.680 these kind of like thirties forties pulpy kinds of stories, Dick Tracy, the 433 00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:52.880 Rocketeer. Yeah, but when this as it was happening, as I was 434 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:59.000 watching it, I didn't find myself getting into the fun of it. I 435 00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:01.480 was just kind of observing it, and I was thinking, like, this 436 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:05.440 movie or its story or whatever it is, it just never found its own 437 00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:10.200 versimilitude. Yeah. I would agree with that, its own versimilitude, you 438 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:15.240 know what I mean. And I feel like Dick Tracy. It made me 439 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:21.000 appreciate that even more because Dick Tracy has its flaws, but it is stylized 440 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.839 to the gills, and yet it does have a heart. You know, 441 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:29.279 there's a real heart with the relationship between Dick Tracy and the kid and even 442 00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:34.920 tests and like the there's palpable stakes and a sweetness and a weirdness that all 443 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:39.079 comes together in kind of a cohesive, rompy experience that I unfortunately did not 444 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:46.359 feel with this one. Well, I think part of the problem possibly is 445 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:55.839 that we need a better sense of the shadows motivation beyond I was evil, 446 00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:00.480 I'm not evil anymore, but I know what makes people evil. I see. 447 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:04.160 I think that's fascinating. And I think you're totally right because I was 448 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.839 reading about Kep and when he was trying to find a way in, he 449 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.720 focused on the line who knows what evil works in the hearts of men? 450 00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:15.359 Yes? And that was his in. You know, he decided that he, 451 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:20.480 you know, this character is going to be uncomfortably, uncomfortably familiar with 452 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.440 the evil in his own heart, right, and so the film was going 453 00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:28.359 to be a story of guilt and atonement, is what he said. And 454 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:30.400 I don't know that I really felt. I don't get a sense of that. 455 00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:35.720 Yeah, yeah, but that sounds yeah, that sounds great. Well, 456 00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:39.799 I I think so so that that certainly underscores the selection of Shuan Khan 457 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:44.640 as as the villain for this film. One of the main shadow. You 458 00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:47.319 know, he's the joker for the shadow, you know, so easy choice, 459 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:51.519 and he's he's the opposite number, so that works. He's the He 460 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.359 also knows how to cloud man's minds, but he uses it for evil. 461 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:59.880 That all tracks. But I think that what you needed to do was lean 462 00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:04.200 into more the idea of like but for X, Y and Z, this 463 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:09.760 is who the shadow might have been totally right, maybe even it maybe even 464 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:15.960 incorporate them having known each other before. Mm hmmm. Yeah, have shi 465 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:22.440 Wan Khan as one of the people in Yinko's court, right right, Yes, 466 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:28.199 you know I like that. Yeah, but that all said. I 467 00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:31.400 again, I love John Loan in this movie. He is he he he 468 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:37.760 knows the assignment and he's he's always fun to watch totally. By the way, 469 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:45.000 people being manipulated to kill themselves mentally is dark stuff. Yeah, it's 470 00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:50.159 kind of hard to watch. That actor, by the way, was who 471 00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:52.599 plays the security guard, Ethan Phillips. He used to be on He was 472 00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:55.280 on Benson. He was also on Star Trek Voyager. Kind of one of 473 00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:00.280 those familiar His face is very familiar. Yeah, there's a lot of people 474 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:02.679 who kind of just pop in and out for a scene or two in this 475 00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:08.119 or you're like, oh, hey him, yeah, yeah, yeah, 476 00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.000 I kind of I mean it makes sense, but I kind of love that 477 00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.840 the villain here knew that he could blend in with artifacts in a museum, 478 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.039 like I am dressed like an artifact. They will not notice, saying he's 479 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:22.639 aware of a lot of things I didn't understand. He's like, oh, 480 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:25.760 fuel for your car. That that was my thought. Actually. Oh, 481 00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:31.000 by the way, making his first Hollywood movie, sir Ian McKellen. This 482 00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:37.960 is the first movie. Huh wow. Yeah, and he talk about a 483 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:39.880 paycheck gig, right. I mean he's not to say he's doing a bad 484 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:44.039 job, but it's like just like, yeah, hey, you know, 485 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.840 show up for a couple of days and be befuddled, you know. And 486 00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:51.559 yeah. I mean maybe it's because I know him now, but I do 487 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.280 think he takes what is kind of a nothing burger of a character and make 488 00:35:54.360 --> 00:36:00.960 him memorable yep, and actually speak king of Like there's Steve Heidner on the 489 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:06.239 left as a security guard's Banya from Seinfeld, and then the other subecurity guard 490 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:09.239 that's Abraham ben Ruby from Parker Lewis Can't Lose and used to be an er 491 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:15.519 and stuff yep, yep. I recognized him immediately and Tim Curry I was 492 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:20.960 watching this and and I was like, man, he's he's a maniacal. 493 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.440 And I was remembering how he was the original voice for the Joker in the 494 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:28.400 Batman animated show, right, which I can imagine. Well, that's it. 495 00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:30.800 I was like, what did that sound like? And I went online 496 00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:34.280 and I found actual clips of him as the Joker. Oh what, so 497 00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:38.960 tell me about it? What was you know, missing so to speak? 498 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:43.320 Where they were like, let's keep trying. Let's let's try Mark Cammel. 499 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:49.440 It's so funny because I think he recorded two or three Joker episodes and and 500 00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:53.519 he's he's totally fine. Like if he was the guy, I probably would 501 00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:55.719 have been fine with it, you know. But it's it's hard now because 502 00:36:55.719 --> 00:37:00.159 you see that design and you just like, no, Mark Hamill's voice has 503 00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:02.760 to come out of that face, you know. Yeah. Yeah, and 504 00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:13.519 per Kevin Conroy, Tim Curry played him sort of gritty and dark, and 505 00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:20.320 Mark Hamill played him gritty and funny. Yeah I can see that. Yeah. 506 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:24.079 Yeah, So this, I have to be honest, the whole color 507 00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:29.039 blind thing. It had been long enough where I was sort of like, 508 00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:31.199 that's a weird thing to leave in, not realizing that Oh, okay, 509 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:37.320 right right, that's really funny. You know, it's funny. I've seen 510 00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:38.599 it come up a lot is on how did this get made? I saw 511 00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:42.719 it on forums. People were like, wait, is he really color blind? 512 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:46.840 Or is he just that out of it? It was interesting that it 513 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:54.719 came up enough people weren't sure. By the way, I was really pissed 514 00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:59.440 because I you know this, I play Cinematrix, that game on Volice where 515 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.519 you try to find actors that fit in these different categories. And I had 516 00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:06.280 Ian McKellen the other day and I was, you know, struggling with certain 517 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:08.440 things to fit him into categories. And then when I saw the shadow, 518 00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:13.480 I was like, oh, damn it. I didn't even know he see 519 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.920 you look at this deep focus right here. Yeah, this is just a 520 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.239 nice shot, you know, nice composition. You don't see that a lot 521 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.480 these days, almost like old schools, old timey. Yeah. Yeah, 522 00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:28.320 I like because it calls attention to itself. But in a movie like this, 523 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.599 I think it has a great effect. Yeah. I think that Russell 524 00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:42.960 mulkay he is He's a talented director who never really got a fair shake because 525 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.679 he did the First Highlander, which as sort of a calling card, is 526 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:52.280 not too shabby, you know. And then and then he did the Second 527 00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:53.920 Highlander, which you haven't seen it, I don't think, but it's it's 528 00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:58.000 a very very bad movie, not through no fault of him, really, 529 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.880 right, And then he did this, and you had this been successful, 530 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:04.079 he probably would have gone off and had a decent career. But you know, 531 00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:07.079 now, I think I think the most high profile thing he did since 532 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:10.280 this was like one of the the Resident Evil sequels. You know, sure, 533 00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:13.920 sure, but I think I mean, you watched this movie and you're 534 00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:16.519 like, no, this guy is a talented director. Oh yeah, for 535 00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:23.320 sure. Another one of the oh that guy, Yeah, yeah, he 536 00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:29.960 was mister Heckeles on Friends. Yeah yeah, he's a home alone the guy 537 00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:34.519 on the yeah line when the mom's frantically calling, he's eating a don't that's 538 00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:44.320 right, that's right? Yeah this don't you need fuel for your automobile? 539 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.159 Yeah. The thing with shi Wan Khan that I find like, it's not 540 00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:54.519 like he's been in you know, suspended animation for five hundred years or something 541 00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.719 like that, right, I don't know, that's kind of a question I 542 00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:01.559 have. I don't believe so because he says, oh, you know, 543 00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:06.119 I just killed the Tolku like a week ago or whatever. Okay, yeah, 544 00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:07.360 yeah, So I'm like, well, why don't you just take a 545 00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:13.079 plane to New York? Like what He's not you know what I mean, 546 00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:17.960 he's not out of those ancient times. He's he's like a as this movie 547 00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:22.960 takes place, He's a present tense guy. I see, that's my sense. 548 00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:28.079 Yeah, yeah, so this right where the guy's like, oh, 549 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:30.719 Inspector Cardona's in charge. So that Inspector Cardona, that's Joe Cardona. He's 550 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:35.679 another Shadow agent. So there's these like little nods, you know, stuff 551 00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:37.079 where if you're a longtime fan, you'd be like, oh, hey, 552 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.119 that's a reference to that thing. You know. I love that. And 553 00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:45.760 that's the thing I do admire about this movie is it does feel very like 554 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:51.360 eager to please hardcore fans of this, which yes, I can't imagine there 555 00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:57.440 was a ton honestly in the nineties, Yes they were, that's yeah, 556 00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.840 that's my thought. Is this nineteen ninety four, I mean, the Shadow 557 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.800 had not been a very much of a prence. I mean, at the 558 00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.519 very least with Dick Tracy. By nineteen ninety there had been you know, 559 00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:13.400 cartoon shows and whatnot, and and you and I talked about this, like 560 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:17.320 we both knew of Dick Tracy going into that movie The Shadow. I mean, 561 00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:22.280 come on the forties, maybe you know. Okay, this sequence here, 562 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.079 I want to talk about this. Yeah. Yeah, people mock it, 563 00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:29.079 and it is mockable in the sense of like, well, did The 564 00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:34.119 Shadow just build this elaborate set of pipes and whatnot? Sure, however, 565 00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.920 I think it's a really cool sequence. It's unique, it's different. I 566 00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:42.320 was like, this is what they mock, like this kind of filled in 567 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.840 universe. I don't know. I just think it's it's nutty. I'm like, 568 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:49.880 you know, that's the Shadow universe or they did this, I don't 569 00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.360 know. First of all, it helps I think the great Goldsmith music playing, 570 00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:59.000 but this whole uh, there's something like kind of steampunk. I agree. 571 00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:00.880 I kind of think it's cool. It feels unique to this. I 572 00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:05.679 mean again, maybe that's it. Also it feels true to the spirit of 573 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:10.000 what this ip is. But maybe people weren't ready for this ip, you 574 00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:15.000 know, And that's possible. I don't know, or didn't know quite what 575 00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:20.239 they were getting into something that would be so into the thirties, noess of 576 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:25.000 it. Yeah, well, I think that if there's one takeaway from these 577 00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:30.719 these retro superhero movies of this era is I don't think people were feeling the 578 00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:37.960 retro Yeah. Yeah, and so I mean I was talking with our friend 579 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:42.159 Sean last night and I mentioned that we were going to cover this and he 580 00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:44.360 was like, oh, yeah, you know, it's that weird moment in 581 00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:47.719 the nineties where after Batman everyone wanted superhero movies, but you know, Marvel 582 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:52.360 rights were all tied up, so it's like so you you know, these 583 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:54.079 studios were going into their addicts and being like, what do we have up 584 00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:57.480 here? You know, and this is kind of all they had to work 585 00:42:57.519 --> 00:42:59.079 with. I mean, I don't know if that's true or not, but 586 00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:02.559 that feels entirely possible. Well, well, the fact that look at the 587 00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:07.960 shot, it look it's great marriage of practical and then you got the Matt 588 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:12.039 Vane in the back. It does you know, and it feels like like 589 00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:15.920 a milliu. I mean, it doesn't look like, it doesn't look real 590 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:21.360 quote unquote, but it looks, you know, like this this fantasia. 591 00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:25.360 To me, it's like you know what Warren Baty did with Dick Tracy where 592 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:29.920 he created this fantasy world in that movie. You know, right, this 593 00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:35.239 is like this fantasy New York. You know, totally No, But to 594 00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:38.280 your point, I mean, this movie was in development since the early eighties. 595 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:44.960 At one time Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gail we're gonna do it, and 596 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:46.639 then they decided to do this little thing called Back to the Future instead. 597 00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:53.320 Wow what did that get him? Yeah? Right, so you figure, 598 00:43:53.360 --> 00:44:00.440 okay, the nineteen eighties. Then you're talking about executives and creatives who it's 599 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:06.000 within their wingspan, like you know, their experience. But again, the 600 00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:10.079 Shadow, unlike Batman, this is a fundamental mistake. Batman never stopped being 601 00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:16.480 a present tense character ever from nineteen thirty nine until right now, the Year 602 00:44:16.519 --> 00:44:22.000 of Our Lord twenty twenty four, there has never not been Batman in some 603 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.079 way, shape or form. Isn't that kind of fascinating? I actually wrote 604 00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:29.920 that down just thinking about that. I mean, knowing he was influenced by 605 00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:34.199 the Shadow, isn't it interesting then that the thing that came not that long 606 00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:38.719 afterward in the thirties, Yeah, never went away? Like what what is 607 00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:45.280 that you know what, what made the shadow drop out of the popular imagination, 608 00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:50.199 But Batman never left. And it might come down to the simplicity of 609 00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:52.480 it. I mean, you have these rings, that's kind of interesting, 610 00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:55.039 but then you have the bat signal, you know, like it's just striking 611 00:44:55.079 --> 00:45:00.679 and ominous in the sky. It's simplified and it's bold, and you know 612 00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:04.840 what I mean, Like there's just something his face doesn't change the rules of 613 00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.280 him being kind of a shadow but kind of there but kind of not like 614 00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.000 it's it's all a little too much or something. But Batman is just so 615 00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:15.119 simple and yeah, really makes an impression. I don't know, it's kind 616 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:20.199 of fascinating, right, I agree. I think that. Oh and by 617 00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:22.760 the way, this dialogue sequence again, this is what I was saying earlier. 618 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:28.000 I'm like, just give me these guys like just tossing one liners back 619 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.239 and forth to each other. You know. I love I love scenes where 620 00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:37.320 the good guy and the bad guy are chatting me too. Yep, you 621 00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:40.400 know, And I think these are two good actors. You know, they 622 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:43.360 have the reference to like, oh, where'd you get that tie? I 623 00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:46.199 love that stuff. I don't know, I think this is where Alec Baldwin 624 00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:52.440 is in his element. I think he seems very uncomfortable playing the shadow. 625 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:57.519 Mmm, yeah, yeah, because he does. He has a twinkle in 626 00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:00.840 his eye, yes, you know, just alc On, he tends to 627 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.920 have a twinkle in his eye. And so yeah, having this playful thirties 628 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.239 style banter. Yeah, you're right well. And and you know, because 629 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:12.239 he's playing this kind of kind of light and he's got these these one liners, 630 00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:15.559 and and for me, it's just funny because I'm like, now I 631 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:21.440 associate that voice with Jack Donneghe yeah, right, right right, you know, 632 00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:22.559 And so I'm like, you know, I expect him to be like, 633 00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:29.079 Lemon, what do you do? Right right? See this? I 634 00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:34.639 I think where where Shiwan Khan here brings up Yinko and he's you're my idol. 635 00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:38.840 I'm like, if this is the first time in the film we allude 636 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:46.840 to his hidden past, I think that would be more effective. I don't 637 00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:52.760 disagree, you know, yeah, because because I think the problem with starting 638 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:57.400 out in in in Tibet and that whole that whole drug Dan or whatever, 639 00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.400 it's such a curve from where we go, like you know, and you 640 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:02.079 had the same reaction. We're like, wait a minute, do we end 641 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:06.559 up here? Yeah, yeah, And I think just start with him as 642 00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:12.440 the shadow and then and then seed the idea that well, he's trying to 643 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.760 redeem himself, and then we get into that a little bit more. Right. 644 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:21.239 I agree with that. But what you were saying about Batman, I 645 00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:29.199 was thinking about how maybe maybe the best thing that could have possibly happened for 646 00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:37.440 Batman was the nineteen sixties television show Yeah right, which is a weird thing 647 00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:38.800 to say, although now you know that show. For a minute, it 648 00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:42.920 was like really looked down upon, and I think now people have come to 649 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:47.039 embrace it again. But you know, it's not exactly one to one with 650 00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:52.559 what Tim Burton did, right, but it put Batman in the public consciousness 651 00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:59.239 obviously for those three years, but syndicated reruns forever, oh yeah yeah, 652 00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:02.920 and found a way to make it of its time also right where it was 653 00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:09.639 wildly popular, and so you it was so so iconic. It is iconic, 654 00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:14.360 right, and they just it was You could have messed that up in 655 00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:16.639 so many ways, but they've struck this perfect tone in the perfect moment. 656 00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:21.039 And then, like you said, it lived on in syndication and we still 657 00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:22.840 found it fun when we were kids in the eighties, So you're right. 658 00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:29.039 And then as yeah, people in movies want to take certain things more seriously. 659 00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:34.880 Every every moment in culture happened perfectly for that character doing do her all 660 00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:37.480 these years. You're right, Yeah, you're right. Yeah, because because 661 00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:43.519 because when when the when Baman eighty nine was this is a cool bit there 662 00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:45.559 where fun idea. Uh He's like, no, I want to pay you 663 00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:50.360 for the bourbon. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I 664 00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:52.960 was gonna say the bullet thing, I like that. And this shot here 665 00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:55.599 that comes later, the bullet thing. I love this shot right here, 666 00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:59.400 this overhead, and then we come down and we realized, look at the 667 00:48:59.400 --> 00:49:01.599 way the cloak starts moving. This is wow. This reminded me of Tarsum 668 00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:06.280 or something like the cell. Yes, yes, yeah, I mean that's 669 00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:08.079 what I'm saying. I'm like, okay's doing some interesting stuff, you know. 670 00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:14.480 But but with Batman, when when the eighty nine movie was coming out, 671 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:17.400 I'm speaking for myself, but I'm sure this speaks for you too. 672 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:22.840 We weren't like, oh, they're bringing back that old thing. We're just 673 00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:24.559 like, oh, it's another Batman. Uh huh. I loved Batman because 674 00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:30.960 because the show was part of our lives all throughout the eighties. Yeah, 675 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:37.039 the character what you know. And it's funny too because I un ironically loved 676 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:38.800 that show, the sixties show and as goofy as it was, and then 677 00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:42.599 when the dark version came out, it wasn't. I mean, I'm sure 678 00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:45.960 now there'd be all sorts of discussions and arguments online like not my Batman and 679 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:51.039 whatnot or but I just accepted it. Maybe I was the right age nine 680 00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:54.000 years old to be like, oh, well, that's a cool vision of 681 00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:57.719 Batman, you know, like I could just go with it. I could 682 00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:00.199 roll with it. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting because 683 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:05.480 because I was like, I'm sorry that lighting on us jin I like that. 684 00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.760 Yeah. Sorry. Oh And by the way, Worth mentioning that the 685 00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:15.519 the Roy Tam character in the in the original novels, you know, like 686 00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:19.679 I said, he's one of the shadow agents, and he's not portrayed in 687 00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:24.519 an a stereotypical manner of what was common during that time for Chinese characters, 688 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:30.119 you know, very intelligent, sophisticated and and I'm like, wow, that's 689 00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:36.599 very like progressive for that time, you know, totally. And and this 690 00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:39.239 this feels of a piece with that. In the there's a comic book adaptation 691 00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:45.519 of the film that was published by Dark Horse where I don't know if that's 692 00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:50.280 the original script or if it's attempting to be truer to the character from the 693 00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:54.159 from the the books and whatnot, but they have the Shadow is subtly suddenly 694 00:50:54.400 --> 00:51:02.199 hypnotizing roy Tam by giving him information that he wouldn't otherwise have to help him 695 00:51:02.199 --> 00:51:06.519 make so in others he's so the shadows like, oh and it's you know, 696 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:09.800 the this coin is from ancient China, and then roy Tam is like, 697 00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:14.280 oh and it's from ancient China of course, so that means it's you 698 00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:16.199 know what I mean. So he's the shadow is like nudging him along. 699 00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:21.679 Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, which which I think 700 00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:23.840 I was thinking like that would have been a cool thing to include in this 701 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:27.920 scene, but I think just as a way of just dropping info, it's 702 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:34.599 probably easier to just yeah, I agree. You know, by the way 703 00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:37.119 we already talked about it. You you touched on it, but the whole 704 00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:40.159 Brooks brothers like, oh where did you Yes, that's tie, I mean 705 00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:44.119 that was I guess a fun allusion to the product placement they used to do 706 00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:46.480 on the radio shows. Oh sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's 707 00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:50.280 really funny. I didn't think of an old choice to throw that in the 708 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:52.119 middle of your movie in the nineties, like who is gonna I think most 709 00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:57.119 people would be like what, But I love that. That's a really funny 710 00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:01.519 homage that I definitely would not have made that connection. But I remember being 711 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:07.400 a kid and seeing that scene in one of these late night you know, 712 00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:13.400 talk show clips, you know, Oh, and I found it amusing, 713 00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:15.360 you know. Yeah, it's funny where he's like Brooks Brothers, you're a 714 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:22.519 Barbarian and I was like, that's good. Like that was that was me 715 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:23.920 going into his movie coming out. I did not watch it in the theater, 716 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:28.840 but I remember at the time. Again, it's it's hard to think 717 00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:31.400 about now, but it was kind of a wasteland when it came to superhero 718 00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:37.599 movies, and so you know, this was this year's superhero movie, right, 719 00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:39.559 yeah, I mean there was a business we push and everything, right 720 00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:45.320 Oh yeah, I remember the toys, yeah yeah, and the toys irked 721 00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:47.280 me. I remember this too, because they all made the mistake of putting 722 00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:53.119 the shadows bandana above his nose. Oh that's funny. And I was thinking 723 00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:55.440 about that. I was like, well, aesthetically, that doesn't make any 724 00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:58.760 sense because he just looks like any other guy. But then the other thought 725 00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:00.280 I had was maybe they were worried, like the nose would snap off. 726 00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:08.079 Maybe, yeah, right, kind of fun seeing this early CGI stuff. 727 00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:15.800 Yeah, it's it's the thought I had is they they limit the CGI to 728 00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:19.880 sort of what was achievable back then. There's only a few instances where I'm 729 00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:22.199 like, well, that just doesn't look good, you know. But like 730 00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:24.480 the knife. I I was looking at the knife, I was like, 731 00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:29.360 all things considered, I think the knife looks pretty decent. Zakie I had 732 00:53:29.400 --> 00:53:30.599 I almost said it, but we were talking about something else. But at 733 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:34.840 the beginning when it was flying around, yes, it looks sort of of 734 00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:37.119 this decade in a way, but it doesn't have like, you know, 735 00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:44.079 mattlines around it, you know, or look like whether that garbage matt garbage 736 00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:45.519 or whatever they call it, that would be around things that floated in movies. 737 00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:50.639 Like it looks looks pretty good, looks pretty yes, all things considered. 738 00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:55.440 Yeah, I was reading about how they this the aspect ratio is one 739 00:53:55.559 --> 00:54:00.719 eight five because that was that was at the request of affects companies hmmm, 740 00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.440 because they didn't want to have to worry about like making something too anamorphic because 741 00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:12.760 just the processing power didn't exist back then, or the storage or whatnot. 742 00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:15.719 And I was like, Wow, that's not stuff we think about nowadays, 743 00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:17.079 you know. No, wait, so do you think that's why Jurassic Park 744 00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:22.320 is one A five. I didn't think about it until just now, But 745 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:25.360 that would make sense, I suppose, right, yeah, Or I guess 746 00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:30.599 it because dinosaurs are tall. Maybe there's something to that too, But yeah, 747 00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:34.000 yeah, I always wondered about that. Man. I have so many 748 00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:40.760 questions. I'd ask Steven Spielberg. Right, I love this sign too, 749 00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:47.320 like lamas, like oh camel, right, And then when it says I'd 750 00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:50.719 climb a mountain for a lama, in my head, I didn't look it 751 00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:52.480 up, but I imagine it's like I'd cross a desert for a camel or 752 00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:59.159 something like that, you know, right. I do find it funny that, 753 00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:01.480 like, you know here, it kind of makes sense that that, 754 00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:06.360 you know, because that billboard is right there. That's what Chiwan Khan is 755 00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:10.320 using to hypnotize Ryan hart Lane. But then later he uses it. He 756 00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:15.320 like summons the daughter there, and I'm like, there's gotta be another way 757 00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:17.800 to It's like totally, yeah, it would have been fun if it was 758 00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:22.519 different billboards throughout New York. So there's like, yeah, exactly, something 759 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:24.679 for like post them or something. Some guys sipping on like a cup of 760 00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:28.679 post them. He's just like hey, Jeff, you know, like he 761 00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:32.480 just uses all like some woman sunbathing, and then it's just Chiuan Khan's head 762 00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:38.400 appears on exactly exactly, sort of like the the Treehouse of Horror Simpsons episode 763 00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:43.880 with the yeah, all the advertising things coming. Yeah, he just don't 764 00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:49.559 look see exactly. Man, that's funny. So so I was talking about 765 00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:53.519 this a little bit. In the radio show, they they ditched the kent 766 00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:58.960 Allard identity of the Shadow. So the Shadow is actually Kent Alard who sometimes 767 00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:01.480 pretends to be Mont Kranston, and the radio shows just like now he's the 768 00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:09.159 Mont Cranston and and the radio show added the supernatural element. So, in 769 00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:15.719 other words, the the the novels were much more batman ish, where it's 770 00:56:15.800 --> 00:56:20.679 like he he gives the impression that he's supernatural, but it's everything is gimmicks 771 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:24.719 and stuff. That's that's fascinating. That's a that's a big change. You 772 00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:30.320 almost feel it could be a different character. Yeah. And and I think 773 00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:32.280 the thing that thought process, if I were to guess, was like, 774 00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:38.880 it's just it's easier shorthand as opposed to having to have the character explain to 775 00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:44.079 the audience everything he's doing, like let me use my grappling gun or whatever. 776 00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:49.159 I don't know, you know, totally works as a radio. Yes, 777 00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:52.320 exactly. Now I'm invisible, ha ha ha, I'm over here, 778 00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:55.119 ha ha ha. Like it feels like a real radio sort of superpower. 779 00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:04.280 Yeah. And and I think that, you know, possibly that's one of 780 00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:07.360 the reasons that I have two thoughts on this. I'm like, maybe that's 781 00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:12.159 one of the reasons the character didn't endure, because if we're doing like a 782 00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:15.599 one to one comparison, it's just more interesting that Batman's a regular guy. 783 00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:21.320 On the other hand, I'm like, I think giving the Shadow this supernatural 784 00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:24.960 hook, well, that distinguishes him. That's something that certainly now lets him 785 00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:30.880 stand apart. Sure, you know, Yeah, I think the other thing 786 00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:34.760 actually is the Shadow is published through Pulp Novels, and there was something like 787 00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:42.639 three hundred something shadow novels over the course of twenty years, of which Walter 788 00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:49.079 Gibson wrote the overwhelming majority of them. That's incredible, Like yeah, something 789 00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:53.920 like like two hundred seventy something, you know, right right, And really 790 00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:57.599 admire those sorts of people, by the way, just those creative like Stephen 791 00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:01.599 King types where it's just like they helped themselves. They're just storytellers. They 792 00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:06.039 pumped this stuff out. I think it's so cool anyway. Well, and 793 00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:12.360 I think by virtue of the fact that this was a twice monthly publication. 794 00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:17.119 M So it's like by hooker by crook, like it's like a novel twice 795 00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:22.480 a month for whatever twenty years, you know. Yeah, And I think 796 00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:25.320 part of the you know, I think I think pulp novels just fell out 797 00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:28.679 of fashion. That's I think that's another factor. I think comic books have 798 00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:31.760 never gone away. That's another that's a good point. Yeah, yeah, 799 00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:36.280 because I think about this with with and I'm sure we've talked about this, 800 00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:40.000 but you know, Jerry Siegil and Joe Schuster with Superman, they wanted to 801 00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:47.519 sell him to a newspaper syndicate and do a newspaper strip, and they landed 802 00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:51.599 at DC sort of like, Okay, well this is I guess we have 803 00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:54.039 to settle for this kind of thing, right, And it's like that ended 804 00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:59.440 up being the reason that that Superman, Batman, all these DC characters are 805 00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:02.440 still around because nobody reads newspaper strips in the same way. Nobody, you 806 00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:06.440 know, nobody talks about Terry and the Pirates or whatever. You know. 807 00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:09.239 It's yeah, I love stories like that where things didn't work out the way 808 00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:15.280 people wanted or and that changed everything, you know, and now we still 809 00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:19.400 know that character almost one hundred years later. It would have been nicer if 810 00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:23.039 Siegel and Schuster didn't get screwed over by the company, obviously, but at 811 00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:30.079 least the character lives on. Yeah, so again the shadow Schnaz there. 812 00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:35.440 I find it like extremely distracting, not because it real quick, by the 813 00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:38.440 way, right here, so right here, next time you get to be 814 00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:42.880 on top, that's Alec Baldwin. That's the comedic genius of Alec Baldwin. 815 00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:47.199 Going off script, Okay, I wrote that down because I was like, 816 00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:52.239 that's a weird thing to put in a movie like this, right, I 817 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:57.280 put next time You'll be on top? What the hell? Right? It 818 00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:00.960 feels like something he would have said to a dame, you know, not 819 01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:07.480 like the bad guy he just kills, right, such a weird the fact 820 01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:10.119 that he came up with it and they're like, that's cold. Jerry Gold 821 01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:15.320 Yeah, oh man, man, I'm so glad that we were, like, 822 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:22.480 it's so funny. We're like hitting all the same things that Yeah, 823 01:00:22.519 --> 01:00:27.119 I mean definitely this part right here, this cracks me up. Where dude's 824 01:00:27.119 --> 01:00:31.599 got the shadows. Vulnerability is not kryptonite. It's a flashlight right right, 825 01:00:32.679 --> 01:00:37.079 right now, what's funny? Okay, so right here, you know, 826 01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:39.719 he he comes upon the shadow and the shadows like, oh shit, now 827 01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:43.880 what you know? And I'm like, you know what do I do? 828 01:00:43.960 --> 01:00:45.880 And I'm like, I don't know, duck? Yeah right, you are 829 01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:52.840 invisible. Yeah, I'm like, you know, you can make yourself invisible 830 01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:54.880 except for your shadow. And I'm like, isn't that a contingency you should 831 01:00:54.920 --> 01:00:59.400 account for? Yeah? Yeah, it's like yeah, shoot out all the 832 01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:02.400 lights. Be kind of a cool sequence. Shoot the flashlight. As soon 833 01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:06.599 as he's been exposed, bam, shoot the flashlight. It'd be kind of 834 01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:08.960 cool then because you're not seeing anything. The guy holding the flashlight like got 835 01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:14.920 you. But then the flashlight breaks and then he falls to his you know, 836 01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:15.880 to the ground, and it's like, oh he's getting you know, 837 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:20.719 like yeah, it played into the coolness of the invisibility fight. Yes, 838 01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:25.400 oh yeah. The other thing I was wondering is where did these Mongol guys 839 01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:31.400 come from? Yeah? Was there other booms that were just opened? Yeah? 840 01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:37.119 That is a very good point. Yeah, yeah, because our main 841 01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:43.920 villain he just arrived. Yeah in that whatever that tomb? Yeah, liked 842 01:01:44.199 --> 01:01:49.000 did they all come on the plane? Like Shiwan Khan took this bit right 843 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:52.599 here where where Peter Boyle is like I sent something coming and he's reading a 844 01:01:52.599 --> 01:01:54.920 book like developing your syc. Doesn't that feel like something that could have easily 845 01:01:54.920 --> 01:02:00.079 been just cut out? Yes, that that feels like I mean, and 846 01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:01.880 I'm not saying they should have cut it. I'm like, it feels like, 847 01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:05.760 oh, that's kind of interesting that they left that in because that seems 848 01:02:05.800 --> 01:02:07.679 like something you would have just cut you know. It's funny though, like 849 01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:13.239 I almost wish there was more of that, like because there is a quirkiness 850 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:17.599 and person or or Yeah. I'm not saying it has to be that movie, 851 01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:20.960 but I don't know. If you're gonna do it like go all in 852 01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:24.559 or something. Yeah. The well, And I think part of it is 853 01:02:24.559 --> 01:02:29.440 just because it's Peter Boyle and we know him, like even at this time 854 01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:31.239 he was known, but obviously since this, you know, because of Raymond 855 01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:34.599 and stuff like, oh we love Peter Boyle, we honest see more of 856 01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:38.159 him. M hmmm hm. Maybe that was ended up with on the day 857 01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:40.960 he's like, yeah, get the prop department and I need a book. 858 01:02:42.719 --> 01:02:49.199 I need a book. I feel bad for these guards. Yeah, they 859 01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:52.559 didn't do anything. They just wanted a burger, I know it. Yeah, 860 01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:54.360 it's like you give them enough of a moment, like I'm hungry, 861 01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:59.000 you like pizza. I love pizza. Flap flap, you know, just 862 01:02:59.079 --> 01:03:01.440 so we think about them as real human beings for a second, just to 863 01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:06.199 take them away from us. See so this right here, Okay, So 864 01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:08.280 her dad calls her and he's like, I need your help, Margo. 865 01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:13.840 So she shows up here and then she's hypnotized by the billboard Again. I'm 866 01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:17.320 like, so, is Shiwan Khan's power specifically channeled through smoking guy on the 867 01:03:17.360 --> 01:03:22.760 billboard? Yeah? Yeah, or they built the set, you know, 868 01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:30.199 I guess I might as well use it as we'll use it. Yeah, 869 01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:31.920 but this is kind of fun, you know, hypnotizing someone to become an 870 01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:37.960 assassin. Well, and and it's it's very a naked gun, right, 871 01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:44.679 kill pap Shmar. Yeah, I must kill the Queen. I must kill 872 01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:50.559 the Queen. Yeah. I was talking about John Loan. I mean, 873 01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:54.119 he's an actor who I first time I became aware of him was through this 874 01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:58.400 film. But I mean he was in a couple of years after this, 875 01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:03.440 he was in a really good movie with Christoph Lambert called The Hunted. I 876 01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:08.440 remember that title. Yeah, that's kind of it's like kind of an overlooked 877 01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:12.280 movie, but I actually really like it. And then he's like The Villain 878 01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:14.679 and Rush Hour two and stuff, and I'm like, I'm I'm like watching 879 01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:15.639 rewatching this. I'm like, John Loan, I feel like he should have 880 01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:18.920 had more of a career, or more of a Hollywood career. I was 881 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:24.519 surprised when I went to his IMDb page. Yeah, not as not as 882 01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:27.519 much. He was in the Last Emperor. That's kind of the big thing 883 01:04:27.559 --> 01:04:33.199 that put him on the map. Yeah, you know, I kind of 884 01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:38.719 wondered, I wish I could go back to nineteen ninety four and take my 885 01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:43.320 Grandpa to a movie theater to like see the trailer for this and see if 886 01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:47.000 he'd go holy crap, you know, like, yeah, is this This 887 01:04:47.039 --> 01:04:50.519 is a weird example. But for me, I think something that I loved 888 01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:54.400 when I was a kid that people don't think about much anymore, like Inspector 889 01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:56.920 Gadget or something. If I was to just show up in a theater and 890 01:04:56.960 --> 01:05:00.400 see an Inspector Gadget trailer with like my hypothetical kids, but I be like, 891 01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:02.840 what the Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he's got the extendo arms 892 01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:05.679 and his you know, penny solves all the crime, like you know, 893 01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:09.679 like how I'd light up and remember all the details about it, Like would 894 01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:12.559 my grandpa see this and go, oh my gosh, Like you know, 895 01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:16.519 I used to listen to this after Hoover's addresses on the radiola. You know, 896 01:05:17.320 --> 01:05:20.119 I wonder I almost would love to see him delighted in that way. 897 01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:26.679 I wonder if Grandpa's incrostination when it's jailer that's okay. So this is interesting 898 01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:29.199 because I think, well, first of all, I think I want the 899 01:05:29.320 --> 01:05:38.360 Inspector Gadget reinvention where he's an ex prostitute. Ah, I'm loving this runner. 900 01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:45.079 I do. Remember. This is the only place I can talk about 901 01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:48.559 this, really, but I remember in the early two thousands, when things 902 01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:51.559 were getting really gritty, I wanted to do like I had a joke about 903 01:05:51.559 --> 01:05:56.239 doing like a gritty Inspector Gadget, and it would be you know, rain 904 01:05:56.360 --> 01:06:00.320 soaked New York or whatever, and someone's mugged and the guy runs down an 905 01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:02.000 alley and then all of a sudden you see a close up of these lips 906 01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:08.239 go go go gadget arm and his arm like flies down the alley, grips 907 01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:10.960 his neck and you know, holds him way way away, up in the 908 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:13.000 air. If it dropped him, he would kill him, you know, 909 01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:18.920 like this gritty Inspector Gadget. Swear to me, Yeah, yes, I'd 910 01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:26.639 watch it. I would too, honestly. Uh. Anyway, yeah, 911 01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:30.400 well I remember the movie, the live the live action The Inspector Gadget movie 912 01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:33.519 being not very good. Uh, but they and I think Matthew Broddock was 913 01:06:33.559 --> 01:06:36.519 just miscast. But they did like a straight to video sequel a couple of 914 01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:40.000 years later, which I didn't see much of. I saw some clips, 915 01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:43.800 but it was French Stewart as Inspector Gadget. I remember that and I'm like, 916 01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:49.199 well that's better like casting. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. 917 01:06:49.239 --> 01:06:51.840 I went and saw that in the theater because I am a gadget head. 918 01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:58.559 And it's funny because I didn't like the movie very much, but I 919 01:06:58.599 --> 01:07:01.480 am noticing now a generation coming up. I'll mention Inspector Gadget in the bic. 920 01:07:01.519 --> 01:07:04.239 Oh, I love that movie. Matthew Broderick, Yep, it's their 921 01:07:04.239 --> 01:07:09.960 hocus pocus. Yes, yes, that continues to happen. It's kind of 922 01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:12.920 amazing. This is funny to me. He looks in the mirror and he's 923 01:07:12.920 --> 01:07:15.679 like, oh, it's this mongol guy, And I'm like, how about 924 01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:20.639 anybody else on the street being like, is that guy dressed like that? 925 01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:26.400 Yeah? You can almost imagine a movie where someone would be like, say, 926 01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:30.119 nice costume. Yeah right, it's yeah, right, just to make 927 01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:33.599 New York feel a little more alive and aware. Cause I'm kind of like 928 01:07:33.639 --> 01:07:38.960 that wouldn't that would make more sense if they aren't dressed like that, Like 929 01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:45.079 if they're dressed in normal clothes. Yeah. Yeah, that's a kind of 930 01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:48.519 a fun idea where you see then maybe he takes them to Brooks Brothers, 931 01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:53.280 right, because he heard about it and then you see these people who are 932 01:07:53.320 --> 01:07:56.880 acting weird. Their body posture is weird because they're uncomfortable. So you know, 933 01:07:56.880 --> 01:07:59.679 these people out of time are now wearing modern day suits or something. 934 01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:05.000 Yes, yes, that may yeah, I can see that. It is. 935 01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:09.920 Yeah again this this bit coming up here where again it's just it's just 936 01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:13.239 Cranston and Chewan Khan and they're just like, so, this is what I'm 937 01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:14.920 planning to do, and he's like, well, this is what I'm planning 938 01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:16.119 to do, and you know, they're just talking. I don't know, 939 01:08:16.199 --> 01:08:20.720 I think these are two actors who play off each other really well. Yeah, 940 01:08:20.800 --> 01:08:25.199 yeah, I agreed. Well here you get that in a little bit, 941 01:08:25.239 --> 01:08:28.319 that flavor of him in the suit now, yes, yeah, exactly. 942 01:08:29.960 --> 01:08:34.359 Yeah. I was just gonna comment as I was talking about New York. 943 01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:36.960 I mean, not that I hold it against the movie, but you 944 01:08:36.960 --> 01:08:42.039 can tell it's very much like a backlot Oh, absolutely universal or something. 945 01:08:42.079 --> 01:08:44.239 But it is kind of funny. I don't know, maybe it's just me 946 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:45.920 or making it up, because I actually, before I even looked it up, 947 01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:47.600 I was like, I don't know how to explain it, but that 948 01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:53.000 looks like the California Sun, you know, just it just looked different. 949 01:08:53.359 --> 01:08:57.000 I don't know what that is, but well it's where it was shot. 950 01:08:57.680 --> 01:09:01.840 Yeah, it was. It was impacted by the nineteen ninety three earthquake. 951 01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:09.039 Kind of fascinating affected the ending of the movie. Yeah, for the worse 952 01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:15.079 yep, undeniably. Yeah, look at him, man, he's just I 953 01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:19.000 don't know it smugs the wrong word, but just cocksure. I don't know 954 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:21.800 what. Yeah, if you want to call it like, he just he's 955 01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:27.239 got that in spades. I mean, I like the lane that he's playing 956 01:09:27.399 --> 01:09:32.600 Cranston in, you know, Alec Baldwin, And I think it's not it's 957 01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:40.479 not camp, but it is self aware, right, And you know, 958 01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:45.199 this just speaks to sort of where superhero movies were at this time, where 959 01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:49.079 they they hadn't quite cracked it. They hadn't figured out what is the approach. 960 01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:56.039 You know, we're ten years away, roughly eleven years away from Batman 961 01:09:56.119 --> 01:10:00.640 Begins. Wow. You know, and I've said this often, right, 962 01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:05.199 I think I think you can look at Batman Begins as the thing that led 963 01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:13.479 to the MCU and everything that came after it. Batman Begins, So they 964 01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:17.079 hadn't figured it out yet, you know. Yeah, because this is this 965 01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:23.359 is This is two years before The Phantom, which also has kind of an 966 01:10:23.439 --> 01:10:28.920 arch tone. Yeah, I personally, and I know, I don't know 967 01:10:29.079 --> 01:10:32.159 how people listening feel, but I personally like the Phantom better. I think 968 01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:36.560 the Phantom achieves better what it was trying to do, It finds its tone. 969 01:10:38.439 --> 01:10:40.840 I agree. Actually I said that very thing to Sean last night. 970 01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:43.960 I was like something about that one. I found my way in. It 971 01:10:43.960 --> 01:10:48.520 felt like more of a whole film to me in a way. Yeah, 972 01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:54.560 story, character's tone, everything, But yeah, yeah, like like this 973 01:10:54.680 --> 01:11:00.399 one. To me, I really appreciate the production design. I think these 974 01:11:00.439 --> 01:11:02.520 actors or this sequence I really like with the bullet thing, that's kind of 975 01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:05.359 the tone. And I think they're doing good stuff performance. I love the 976 01:11:05.439 --> 01:11:10.279 music, as I said earlier, and ye you know, and maybe partly 977 01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:14.279 it's because the ending they just straight up had to had to scotch tape something 978 01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:17.560 together. Maybe yeah, maybe that's a part of it, but it doesn't 979 01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:25.239 hang together as well as certainly The Rocketeer, even Dick Tracy and The Phantom. 980 01:11:25.760 --> 01:11:29.079 But you know, I know that there's others who would rank them differently. 981 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:32.920 Sure, sure, I mean, man, the Rocketeer, what a 982 01:11:32.960 --> 01:11:38.680 wonderful, wonderful movie. I mean really yeah, that movie, like because 983 01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:42.720 I had the benefit of being the exact right age, so I've always held 984 01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:46.399 that movie very near and dear right. Yeah. But what's been cool is 985 01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:50.840 to see like because I remember in the nineties generally speaking, it was like, 986 01:11:51.399 --> 01:11:57.560 oh, the Rocketeer whatever, And we have definitely seen this like no, 987 01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:00.039 no, no, this is like it's not just good, it's great. 988 01:12:00.199 --> 01:12:02.760 You know, we've seen I mean script, the script level, the 989 01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:08.359 character level, the actors they chose, like the perfect leaning into the thirties, 990 01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:12.319 noess of it, but not having it be camp. I mean, 991 01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:16.119 it really is a little miracle of a movie. Yeah. Yeah, with 992 01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:21.800 all the components at play, you know. Yeah, right, I really 993 01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:28.560 like this this element of the story that where's his hideout. Oh, it's 994 01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:30.600 just right there. He's just hypnotized everyone into not seeing it. I mean, 995 01:12:30.600 --> 01:12:33.439 it's kind of brilliant. I love it. I love it. It's 996 01:12:33.479 --> 01:12:38.680 it's so bold and you know, big and broad for a villain like this 997 01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:41.279 to have it in the middle of the city. Yeah, you know, 998 01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:44.600 it's not like on the outskirts of town and he's made some warehouse invisible. 999 01:12:44.640 --> 01:12:48.279 It's like this right, Well, yeah, see, and this is what 1000 01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:51.880 I mean, Like, I think Alec Baldwin again, when he's not trusted 1001 01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:57.319 up with with his Billy Baldwin face, he's he's bringing it. I think 1002 01:12:57.359 --> 01:13:00.600 I think he's he's fun to watch, he's enjoyable. I just I think 1003 01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:04.199 he feels hamstrung whenever he has to shadow up. Yeah, you think he's 1004 01:13:04.239 --> 01:13:10.840 just not comfortable playing some sort of hard ass figure or something. You know. 1005 01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:18.000 I think that the problem is that the shadow. This is what I 1006 01:13:18.039 --> 01:13:20.720 think about it. I'm like, does he just have to laugh all the 1007 01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:27.560 time? That seems hard to do? Mmm? Sure? Like you know, 1008 01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:30.319 and is he is he doing recording those in the ADR booth being like, 1009 01:13:30.319 --> 01:13:35.560 oh geez, another take in our right, that's funny. I think 1010 01:13:35.600 --> 01:13:40.720 I think the movie needed to establish a little bit more clearly what are the 1011 01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:46.880 Shadow's abilities and what are his limitations? So you know, we kind of 1012 01:13:47.079 --> 01:13:51.880 like he's not really invisible, he's just clouding people's minds. But you know, 1013 01:13:51.920 --> 01:13:54.920 I mean, that's that's nebulous, and I feel like you need to 1014 01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:57.800 explain that a little bit. I'm glad to hear you say that, because 1015 01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:01.199 I wasn't super clear on it when I was watching it for the first time 1016 01:14:01.239 --> 01:14:08.119 and the arrows from the crossbow are pinning his I thought his shadow to the 1017 01:14:08.159 --> 01:14:12.439 wall, right, you know, which makes more sense because if he was 1018 01:14:12.680 --> 01:14:15.840 that close to the wall pinned, there would be no shadow. So you 1019 01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:20.119 know what I'm saying, Like it was just my brain was doing geometry trying 1020 01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:25.920 to figure out what was going on in that moment, right. But yeah, 1021 01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:31.119 yeah, I mean I think that it's easier from a radio show perspective 1022 01:14:31.159 --> 01:14:36.119 to be like he's able to cloud your mind so that you don't really see 1023 01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:40.479 him, right, But it's like, how do you visualize that? Sure? 1024 01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:45.079 Yeah, I mean they do a pretty good job later in the film 1025 01:14:45.079 --> 01:14:49.039 with the water, right and you see his sort of footsteps going through the 1026 01:14:49.039 --> 01:14:50.760 water. I thought that was pretty good, Like, you know, he's 1027 01:14:50.760 --> 01:15:00.600 really there, He's just obscured himself to you billowing drapes. I wish I 1028 01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:10.279 had building drapes in my place. This, this sequence is executed pretty well. 1029 01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:15.199 I have to say, the whole the makeup that's used to have him 1030 01:15:15.199 --> 01:15:17.199 pull off his face. I mean this very old timing, right, This 1031 01:15:17.279 --> 01:15:20.399 is this in the age of CGI. You just wouldn't see you look at 1032 01:15:20.439 --> 01:15:24.239 that. That's that's just cool. Look pretty damn good. Yeah. The 1033 01:15:24.279 --> 01:15:27.119 way they do the transitions, it's look at that. Yeah, with the 1034 01:15:27.199 --> 01:15:30.880 lamps, that's pretty good. Yeah. I was just like, holy crap, 1035 01:15:30.880 --> 01:15:34.800 it's going full Poultrygeist. I thought he's gonna rip his face off. 1036 01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:38.560 I was like, geez, that's that's like the grossest part to me in 1037 01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:45.560 pulture Geist, right, this scene here, this was another one of those 1038 01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:51.079 late night you know, Jay Leno clips. I'm guessing when Penelopean Miller was 1039 01:15:51.119 --> 01:15:54.000 the guest. You know, Oh, I can see that. I mean, 1040 01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:56.720 look at her, man, she looks ripped out of like a nineteen 1041 01:15:56.760 --> 01:16:01.800 thirties yeah starlet perfectly that era. Yeah, there was there was a minute 1042 01:16:01.800 --> 01:16:05.000 there where she was in a lot of stuff. I I you know, 1043 01:16:05.079 --> 01:16:13.039 I feel like Carlito's Way Kindergarten just before this is Carlito's Way. Yeah. 1044 01:16:13.159 --> 01:16:17.560 Yeah, I remember her being like a real presence and she's still the relic, 1045 01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:23.800 yes totally. But she's still doing stuff. But you just don't see 1046 01:16:23.800 --> 01:16:27.199 her at the forefront as much. Oh that's just the unfortunate. But this 1047 01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:31.720 is this is hilarious. You know, this is just a funny exchange she's 1048 01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:38.600 talking about her dream. It's all sensual and she's like, what was your 1049 01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:45.840 dream? See and the way he delivers it, I think I think it's 1050 01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:49.359 perfect. I do think it would have been funnier if she didn't say you 1051 01:16:49.399 --> 01:16:57.720 have problems. I agree her reaction, right, I think I think I 1052 01:16:57.760 --> 01:17:00.560 had that same notes I'm looking but yeah, yeah, it's no like, 1053 01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:02.760 let that be funny, yeah, you know, or play you know, 1054 01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:06.079 have a reaction or something. Just her reaction. We don't need the we 1055 01:17:06.119 --> 01:17:10.760 don't need to to put a lamp on it, you know, totally agreet 1056 01:17:10.880 --> 01:17:17.640 undercuts it. That's so funny that too. I thought that was a pretty 1057 01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:20.479 funny thing where he's giving hery to oh this is like my my aunt whoever, 1058 01:17:20.600 --> 01:17:23.840 and she's like, oh yeah, she kept her figure too, Like, 1059 01:17:23.840 --> 01:17:29.560 no, it's all the women he slept with. Yeah, you know, 1060 01:17:29.600 --> 01:17:31.800 it would be kind of funny because we're seeing her silhouette here as she's 1061 01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:34.920 changing. If she's like, oh, how'd your shadow get over here? 1062 01:17:38.960 --> 01:17:44.439 What? Then he like can hear pitter patter? He goes back on the 1063 01:17:44.479 --> 01:17:49.760 other side of the changing screen. You know. Alec Baldwin has talked about 1064 01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:57.920 how this movie was part of the succession of flops that ended up kaibashing his 1065 01:17:58.159 --> 01:18:02.840 run as a leading man. Hm hm, you know, because because you 1066 01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:11.079 know he was, he was kind of there was a period there hunt Fred 1067 01:18:11.079 --> 01:18:15.159 October certainly being one of the most prominence where he was, you know, 1068 01:18:15.840 --> 01:18:20.760 I sought after leading man and then between this and what was the Getaway, 1069 01:18:21.119 --> 01:18:24.960 the Getaway with Kim Basinger, which I think that's where he met Kim Basinger 1070 01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:30.119 from Mistaken or maybe they were already married. I can't remember, but Heaven's 1071 01:18:30.119 --> 01:18:32.119 Prisoners was like a year after this, you know, you know, you 1072 01:18:32.239 --> 01:18:36.600 do enough of those and then that's it. Yep, You're done being being 1073 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:42.119 in above the line star. So that's sort of when it precipitated his journey 1074 01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:45.920 into character actorhood. You know. Is that funny because in my mind I 1075 01:18:45.920 --> 01:18:47.279 don't think of him that way. I do still think of him as like 1076 01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:48.840 a movie star. Oh yeah, he us in like a ton of big 1077 01:18:48.840 --> 01:18:51.600 movies, a big movie start in the nineties. But yeah, I guess, 1078 01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:56.359 yeah, that wasn't I mean, not that many hits. Yeah, 1079 01:18:56.439 --> 01:18:59.520 it's weird, and I'm like, what am I thinking of? I mean, 1080 01:18:59.560 --> 01:19:08.119 obviously on for October, I don't know about it. Yeah, this 1081 01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:11.600 so this I was thinking about how what's so much worse is that he knows 1082 01:19:11.640 --> 01:19:15.359 what's happening, Yes, unlike the others. Yes, right, yeah, 1083 01:19:15.399 --> 01:19:17.399 he doesn't want to jump off. I think this is the Empire State Building. 1084 01:19:18.239 --> 01:19:21.680 Yeah that that shot by the way, looking down I don't know what 1085 01:19:21.720 --> 01:19:26.680 that is, but it looks phenomenal. Yes that well, by the way, 1086 01:19:26.720 --> 01:19:30.079 this this here, yes, why, it's like the propeller guy in 1087 01:19:30.159 --> 01:19:35.439 Titanic. Yeah, and you you have a Cranson like it's all falling into 1088 01:19:35.439 --> 01:19:39.279 place now as you see this guy bounce off the building. I know, 1089 01:19:39.640 --> 01:19:42.720 I know, Like I don't know if I should laugh about the movie is 1090 01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:51.199 like, but uh yeah that what that perspective shot looking down the side of 1091 01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:55.359 the Empire State Building like that made my stomach drop. It was a really 1092 01:19:55.399 --> 01:20:00.680 effective shot. And who's that actor? He's in all sorts of stuff, 1093 01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:02.760 the guy who fell. Yeah, yeah, I've seen him in a few 1094 01:20:02.800 --> 01:20:06.079 things. Oh I'm fressy. He didn't know his name. Sorry, it's 1095 01:20:06.079 --> 01:20:11.199 like up your alley to like know that guy. I have failed in a 1096 01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:15.000 million things. So this year he's like, I'm going to talk to claymore 1097 01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:18.159 as the shadow or whatever, and I'm like, well, was this the 1098 01:20:18.239 --> 01:20:25.960 place, like, maybe find somewhere else to lure him to, right, 1099 01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:29.359 because this sequence makes me say, you know, the shadows maybe not so 1100 01:20:29.479 --> 01:20:41.279 bright? Right? Yeah, Tim Curry, it's interesting he doesn't play as 1101 01:20:41.399 --> 01:20:44.960 big of a role as you would imagine for having in this movie. I 1102 01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:50.560 feel maybe, yeah, Tim Curry, this was This was ninety four, 1103 01:20:50.600 --> 01:20:55.840 and then a year after this he was in Congo, which I have not 1104 01:20:55.920 --> 01:20:59.520 seen, which, yeah, we're well, I'm not planning for us to 1105 01:20:59.560 --> 01:21:10.279 do a comment trade track for that weirdly fun surprising unless we get enough requests. 1106 01:21:10.359 --> 01:21:12.479 I mean, shit, we're doing this one because we got we got 1107 01:21:12.520 --> 01:21:15.000 multiple requests for it, so you never know. I do like that. 1108 01:21:15.079 --> 01:21:17.399 Yeah, I like the footsteps right there. And by the way, I 1109 01:21:17.439 --> 01:21:20.760 did read that Tim Curry did this because he wanted to work with Ian McKellen, 1110 01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:25.159 so it's sort of McKellen yeah, totally. And I guess they had 1111 01:21:25.159 --> 01:21:30.880 been in a production of Amadaeus together. Yeah, and they got along famously 1112 01:21:30.079 --> 01:21:34.560 on this one, can imagine. And you know, Ian McKellen talked about 1113 01:21:34.600 --> 01:21:39.960 like just his first exposure just like a big Hollywood movie, big set, 1114 01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:44.000 big everything, and it's very funny now to be like sir Ian McKellen. 1115 01:21:44.039 --> 01:21:46.880 He's Gandalf for goodness sake, you know. And and I was thinking about 1116 01:21:46.880 --> 01:21:51.199 I was like he was in his fifties when he made his first big Hollywood 1117 01:21:51.239 --> 01:21:55.840 movie amazing, So you tell me, like, it's never too late. 1118 01:21:57.319 --> 01:22:00.640 Yeah, And if some time traveler could tell him, Oh, your biggest 1119 01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:02.640 role, like that's still yeah, that's a little ways away. You're you're 1120 01:22:02.640 --> 01:22:08.279 gonna become iconic. Yeah, and you know for something you haven't even done 1121 01:22:08.359 --> 01:22:11.920 yet. To hear that in your fifties, I mean, it's gotta be 1122 01:22:12.039 --> 01:22:17.960 kind of nice. Yeah. See again, I'm gonna say, hey, 1123 01:22:18.239 --> 01:22:24.640 Shadow, maybe don't lure the guy into the death trap A death trap? 1124 01:22:24.760 --> 01:22:30.760 Yeah yeah, just his apartment, yes, like of all the places, 1125 01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:34.079 you know. I know it's so funny, but there's something kind of old 1126 01:22:34.079 --> 01:22:38.720 school about it that I do like. It feels like an old school concept, 1127 01:22:38.840 --> 01:22:45.640 this kind of a trap. Yeah, I love. I kind of 1128 01:22:45.680 --> 01:22:50.520 like this psychic thing. It's kind of fun with her. It's and like 1129 01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:54.720 like we said, especially considering it was just an invention of the film. 1130 01:22:55.039 --> 01:23:00.920 I know it's a it's quite a swing, but I'm at the same time, 1131 01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:04.319 it fits what we're doing here, right, I mean, with messing 1132 01:23:04.319 --> 01:23:08.880 with people's minds, and so he's found someone who's on some sort of weird 1133 01:23:09.640 --> 01:23:14.159 plane with him. You know, here's my question, why isn't the water 1134 01:23:14.399 --> 01:23:19.960 gushing out of those holes? If I was the director, I'd be like, 1135 01:23:20.039 --> 01:23:25.960 because shut up, Zachy. No joke didn't even cross my mind. 1136 01:23:26.039 --> 01:23:30.319 I only thought, why is he swimming away from them? Like I would 1137 01:23:30.319 --> 01:23:31.079 just well, I don't know. I guess you have to keep trying. 1138 01:23:31.159 --> 01:23:34.520 But like I mean, I'm like, well, maybe I'm wrong because I 1139 01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:39.039 don't know how you know the physics of water, But I'm like, it's 1140 01:23:39.159 --> 01:23:42.359 gushing out of all the other holes, the other holes. Yeah, you 1141 01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:48.159 know, yeah, this is hilarious. This is how you open a door. 1142 01:23:50.720 --> 01:23:54.479 He's like, mind me in to her, save me, turn the 1143 01:23:54.560 --> 01:24:06.359 door thustly. I kind of like this old school kind of stunt too. 1144 01:24:08.079 --> 01:24:11.960 Makes me think of Mission Impossible one, the exploding aquarium and just rush of 1145 01:24:12.039 --> 01:24:15.800 water throwing a human being. I mean, there's something kind of dangerous. 1146 01:24:15.079 --> 01:24:29.000 Yeah yeah, back at Wayne manor Yeah, exactly what it feels like the 1147 01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:33.760 chemistry between these two. I find it interesting because I was looking at some 1148 01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:36.560 of the conversation online. It's like, oh, these they don't they don't 1149 01:24:36.560 --> 01:24:39.560 have any chemistry together, and I was like, I don't know, man, 1150 01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:42.479 I like them together. I think they're fun. You know what I 1151 01:24:42.479 --> 01:24:47.079 will say, I don't think their characters necessarily light the story on fire, 1152 01:24:47.560 --> 01:24:51.680 but they don't. Both are very good at doing what this movie wants them 1153 01:24:51.720 --> 01:24:56.600 to do. That sort of thirties I think. Put it like they're in 1154 01:24:56.640 --> 01:25:00.720 the same movie together and that is fun to watch them interact. I remember 1155 01:25:00.760 --> 01:25:04.640 this shot right here in all the TV spots, Yeah, it's really as 1156 01:25:04.720 --> 01:25:09.640 trailer guys like who knows, you know what, action or whatever, you 1157 01:25:09.640 --> 01:25:15.920 know. Then it's captivating. Yeah, like her and the excitement. That's 1158 01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:18.520 really good. Yeah, yeah, like her. She's in this nightgown that's 1159 01:25:18.560 --> 01:25:23.159 flowing and then there's these flames and circling her. So okay, So right 1160 01:25:23.159 --> 01:25:27.439 here, Brian, what if this here is the first time we really see 1161 01:25:27.560 --> 01:25:30.880 the the yin ko of it all and we know he's conflicted, but we 1162 01:25:30.920 --> 01:25:34.479 don't know why. Yeah, and so it's finally like, look, I 1163 01:25:34.520 --> 01:25:39.039 know you think I'm doing this for the greater good. Maybe I'm I'm a 1164 01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:43.199 hero I'm no hero. What do you mean, well, yeah, exactly, 1165 01:25:43.239 --> 01:25:47.479 and then you go back and oh damn, I fight that every day. 1166 01:25:47.680 --> 01:25:53.359 That's why I'm pulled out of it all the time by like some you 1167 01:25:53.359 --> 01:26:00.000 know, American playboy just randomly goes to to the Far East and becomes an 1168 01:26:00.079 --> 01:26:03.920 opium lord. You know, that's so right, and and then being like 1169 01:26:03.960 --> 01:26:06.760 it but now I'm a good guy, and I'm and I'm like, well, 1170 01:26:08.279 --> 01:26:10.520 maybe you didn't need to go as far as that, but you can 1171 01:26:10.640 --> 01:26:17.199 allude to the idea that following the war he lost himself and and you know, 1172 01:26:17.279 --> 01:26:20.760 he became somebody he didn't want to be. And and I think there 1173 01:26:20.800 --> 01:26:25.479 was a there was a better way to incorporate that without it being so abrupt, 1174 01:26:25.520 --> 01:26:28.199 so jarring. You know, that would be a great montage, like 1175 01:26:28.279 --> 01:26:31.199 seeing some guy who has like a little arrogant and comes from some world and 1176 01:26:31.239 --> 01:26:34.520 thinks he can, well, I'll just camp out here. This is exotic 1177 01:26:34.560 --> 01:26:38.239 to me and interesting, I'd rather than go home. And then it's like, 1178 01:26:38.279 --> 01:26:41.479 but then I found myself becoming someone I never thought I could be, 1179 01:26:41.760 --> 01:26:44.640 you know, like you yeah, yeah, I think it's better if he 1180 01:26:44.680 --> 01:26:46.439 said if he says that and then the screen goes to black and we have 1181 01:26:46.520 --> 01:26:55.359 another text crawl. For seven years, Cranston became a person he did not 1182 01:26:55.439 --> 01:27:00.920 want to be and such. There was one moment where a guy who was 1183 01:27:01.000 --> 01:27:08.159 like a father to him, he ordered to shoot him anyway, and then 1184 01:27:08.239 --> 01:27:11.000 we fade back in on him and he's like, and so that's what happened. 1185 01:27:11.039 --> 01:27:16.119 And she's like, what what just happened? What you just got really 1186 01:27:16.199 --> 01:27:24.840 quiet there for a second. Oh, you can read that. She's like, 1187 01:27:24.840 --> 01:27:27.239 you're really strange, and I don't know why I keep sticking around. 1188 01:27:30.039 --> 01:27:35.239 Yeah, y'all love this old bomb too, with the old timey numbers. 1189 01:27:35.319 --> 01:27:39.159 I don't even know what you call that, those like those light bulbs. 1190 01:27:39.199 --> 01:27:44.880 Yeah, it's very It reminds me of Goldfinger totally. Yeah. Yeah, 1191 01:27:45.000 --> 01:27:47.479 I love this stuff. The miniatures are bigotairs as you were calling him. 1192 01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:54.199 Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a big fan of exposition by way of shouted 1193 01:27:54.239 --> 01:28:02.359 newspaper headlines. Yeah yeah, newspapers, spinning news paper slash shouted headline exposition. 1194 01:28:03.359 --> 01:28:08.119 Yeah. I love the expression on this guy. By the way, 1195 01:28:08.159 --> 01:28:11.880 I was fascinated by that real quick. By the way, how I think 1196 01:28:12.039 --> 01:28:17.479 Oppenheimer would have been improved by spitting newspaper slash newspaper boy screamed headlines. In 1197 01:28:17.520 --> 01:28:21.960 my opinion, I don't want to tell Christopher Nolan his business. He needed 1198 01:28:23.039 --> 01:28:27.359 more shouting paper boy. I would love you to encounter him in a restaurant 1199 01:28:27.359 --> 01:28:29.119 and be like, I don't want to tell you how to do your job. 1200 01:28:30.680 --> 01:28:38.720 Cut to me, tossed out like jazz. I love that. I'd 1201 01:28:38.760 --> 01:28:42.359 love that as a series, by the way, like a YouTube series where 1202 01:28:42.399 --> 01:28:45.960 you go up to famous directors and tell them a stupid advice about their movie 1203 01:28:46.199 --> 01:28:50.039 and then it cuts to you being like being thrown out of Musso and Frank, 1204 01:28:50.359 --> 01:28:56.000 you know, like sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. You 1205 01:28:56.079 --> 01:28:58.640 were saying no, no, no, no. There was just something funny 1206 01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:01.239 about the the man on the street to have the paper and he holds it 1207 01:29:01.239 --> 01:29:04.319 out like look at this fellas and all these people lean in. But there 1208 01:29:04.359 --> 01:29:09.920 was something really wow. I don't know that is an expression that guy has 1209 01:29:11.359 --> 01:29:14.520 then and it stood out to me now and I don't know, I wondered 1210 01:29:14.520 --> 01:29:17.520 what the other takes. Look like he was going to earn his day player 1211 01:29:17.680 --> 01:29:25.319 money. You know he did, he did in my mind, or if 1212 01:29:26.119 --> 01:29:30.600 he's kind of a fun. He speaks in a perr. He's kind of 1213 01:29:30.600 --> 01:29:33.520 a fun voice. I found myself talking like him after the movie walking around 1214 01:29:33.520 --> 01:29:38.479 there. You can't help them do that? Yeah, I know, is 1215 01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:42.520 that what you think? Yeah? What we needed was Tracy Morgan Yo La 1216 01:29:42.520 --> 01:29:46.399 mak Quenston here. I would have loved that if he was one of his 1217 01:29:47.079 --> 01:29:51.000 acolytes or whatever, if he was the Peter Boyle character. Yeah, yeah, 1218 01:29:51.279 --> 01:29:56.319 hey, Lamont, what are we doing here? Do you want me 1219 01:29:56.359 --> 01:29:59.920 to call a boss? I don't want to tell you this again, but 1220 01:30:00.079 --> 01:30:06.560 subtleties, Katie, please, this is cool. I love this. This 1221 01:30:06.640 --> 01:30:12.039 is this is the wackadoo of this story that I like. She's a psychic. 1222 01:30:12.119 --> 01:30:18.560 That building's invisible, you know, Like, guy's like a lunatic. 1223 01:30:19.399 --> 01:30:24.079 He's loney. See, that's probably a guy they didn't want to pay because 1224 01:30:24.079 --> 01:30:27.439 he already turns around and his mouth doesn't move. But you hear someone loop 1225 01:30:27.520 --> 01:30:35.399 in lunatic. Yeah. There's a scene in Airplane where it's it's Robert Hayes 1226 01:30:35.439 --> 01:30:41.880 describing the first time he sees the Julie Haggerty character. Yeah, and and 1227 01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:45.600 he sees her and it's it's him. It's his narration he's like I had 1228 01:30:45.600 --> 01:30:47.960 to ask somebody to pinch me, you know, and you see him lean 1229 01:30:48.000 --> 01:30:51.119 over to somebody and he whispers, obviously, pinch me, and you just 1230 01:30:51.119 --> 01:30:56.239 see the guy like what and he just backs away slowly. Yeah, I 1231 01:30:56.279 --> 01:30:59.000 feel like that would have been funny here kind of like sees the building, 1232 01:30:59.079 --> 01:31:04.239 Hey, pinch me. You just see that. Totally. This guy's bats 1233 01:31:06.680 --> 01:31:12.239 I think he took his wallet. Yes, yeah, every generation, like 1234 01:31:12.279 --> 01:31:15.920 there's an actor who just fits that bill and he gets cast in these kinds 1235 01:31:15.960 --> 01:31:18.319 of things. I love it. That guy in Back to the Future too, 1236 01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:23.920 is so perfect. I think he took his wallet. So now here's 1237 01:31:23.920 --> 01:31:29.720 my question, Uh are you entirely clear on what Chuan Khan's plan is exactly? 1238 01:31:30.319 --> 01:31:33.199 Uh? No, I was thinking about that. I thought that was 1239 01:31:33.199 --> 01:31:36.199 a me problem, and because I was kind of half watching, half kind 1240 01:31:36.199 --> 01:31:41.520 of studying the film the look of it and everything. But I don't remember 1241 01:31:41.520 --> 01:31:44.520 what the plot is then, I even now I don't know what it is. 1242 01:31:46.159 --> 01:31:50.319 Something something atomic bomb? Yeah, like but why I don't remember? 1243 01:31:51.159 --> 01:31:56.359 Because he wants to rule the world. There you go, Yeah, that'll 1244 01:31:56.359 --> 01:32:05.159 do there, that'll do. Pig This guy's mad. Yeah, I love 1245 01:32:05.199 --> 01:32:12.680 it. I do love how you know nowadays in our smartphone world, you 1246 01:32:12.720 --> 01:32:18.359 know, the idea of like the superhero has to rely on pneumatic tube based 1247 01:32:18.359 --> 01:32:21.079 communication. I was just gonna say, I mean, going back to what 1248 01:32:21.119 --> 01:32:24.399 we were saying earlier, I mean, that makes total sense. Like the 1249 01:32:24.399 --> 01:32:29.560 Shadow also has a series of interconnected pneumatic tubes set up all around New York, 1250 01:32:29.880 --> 01:32:31.960 you know, and it's people, you know, like it's secret network. 1251 01:32:32.039 --> 01:32:35.359 It makes sense for the technology of the time, absolutely, you know, 1252 01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:40.039 it's and it feels kind of fantastical and fun too, because who else 1253 01:32:40.079 --> 01:32:46.479 could pull that off. Yeah, back in at some point, maybe ten 1254 01:32:46.640 --> 01:32:51.720 fifteen years ago, they were talking about doing a Shadow slash doc Savage team 1255 01:32:51.800 --> 01:32:59.039 up movie and maybe and the Avenger. Also, that's another pulp character who 1256 01:32:59.079 --> 01:33:03.760 his whole deal is that his face is malleable, so he can like he 1257 01:33:03.800 --> 01:33:09.680 can just like mush his face into whatever kind of dark man esque. That 1258 01:33:09.800 --> 01:33:12.840 shot, by the way, where we just see this right here, that 1259 01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:16.159 feels like they just they got a bunch of shots of Alec Baldwin turning to 1260 01:33:16.239 --> 01:33:26.000 camera looking away from Canada. Sure inserted, Yeah that's funny. But yeah, 1261 01:33:26.000 --> 01:33:29.079 they were talking about doing like a doc Savage thing, and this is 1262 01:33:29.119 --> 01:33:31.840 the same problem. I'm like, do you know anything of Doc Savage other 1263 01:33:31.920 --> 01:33:36.439 than the name Doc Savage. I do not. That's the problem, right, 1264 01:33:36.880 --> 01:33:43.039 Yeah, this is for a while there, Dwayne Johnson was attached and 1265 01:33:43.079 --> 01:33:51.079 I know that is the Savage as the Rock. That's exactly. This is 1266 01:33:51.079 --> 01:33:55.560 all cool, It's all yeah. And he'd be like, yeah, the 1267 01:33:56.279 --> 01:34:00.399 like the paradigm of nineteen thirty has forgotten superheroes is about to change or whatever 1268 01:34:02.039 --> 01:34:09.000 whatever he said about the Shadow, about the Black Adam, It's like, 1269 01:34:09.039 --> 01:34:12.000 what, all right, man, we were with you the first time, 1270 01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:17.399 but I mean, this is this is the thing, right again. As 1271 01:34:17.520 --> 01:34:23.279 as a comic book fan, I'm aware of The Shadow and Doc Savage and 1272 01:34:23.319 --> 01:34:29.600 the Avenger only as characters who briefly had licensed comics published by you know, 1273 01:34:29.720 --> 01:34:32.960 the majors. You know, so DC uh did their you know, did 1274 01:34:32.960 --> 01:34:34.840 their versions of each of them. But I'm just like, these are not 1275 01:34:34.920 --> 01:34:39.920 present tense characters anymore, right, right, And that doesn't mean that the 1276 01:34:39.960 --> 01:34:44.039 back catalog does not have value, or or that you can't do a cool 1277 01:34:44.079 --> 01:34:48.800 reinvention totally, or I said that the Avenger was dark Man esque. I 1278 01:34:48.840 --> 01:34:54.520 meant that in reverse. It feels like Sam Raimi is obviously familiar with these 1279 01:34:54.600 --> 01:34:58.520 characters. Yeah, and that was his version of the Avenger, you know, 1280 01:34:58.640 --> 01:35:01.920 reinterpreted through sa Amrami Lynz. Yeah, the Avenger slashed the Shadow to 1281 01:35:01.960 --> 01:35:10.600 be honest, Yeah, yeah, I think that there's an opportunity to reinvent 1282 01:35:10.640 --> 01:35:14.520 them, but you have to do it in a way that assumes that nobody 1283 01:35:14.560 --> 01:35:16.760 knows who these characters are, or not enough people know who these characters are, 1284 01:35:16.800 --> 01:35:24.000 you know, totally totally Tommy gun. You know, it's funny. 1285 01:35:24.039 --> 01:35:28.000 There's when you go to Vegas, there's places you can go and fire machine 1286 01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:30.359 guns and all sorts of things. I got admit, I'd be tempted if 1287 01:35:30.399 --> 01:35:34.279 you could fire a Tommy gun. I'm like very curious, Like it's very 1288 01:35:34.640 --> 01:35:41.039 very representative of a of a specific moment in time. Yeah. Yeah, 1289 01:35:41.479 --> 01:35:44.199 there is something just kind of I don't know how to describe it, like 1290 01:35:44.319 --> 01:35:48.239 cool or just it's just so specific or so specific. Yeah, exactly, 1291 01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:53.479 and like you have to yell, you have to be like ah, it 1292 01:35:53.520 --> 01:35:57.600 makes me think like a flat top and Dick Tracy and you know exactly this 1293 01:35:57.720 --> 01:36:00.479 by the way, this is like kind of haunting the way these spinning around 1294 01:36:00.479 --> 01:36:02.039 the circle and yelling like that. It's kind of a yes. Well and 1295 01:36:02.560 --> 01:36:05.319 this shot right here, this overhead, is what made me think of the 1296 01:36:05.399 --> 01:36:12.800 Joker. Great shot. Yeah, yeah, I mean this is where you're 1297 01:36:12.840 --> 01:36:15.000 like, yeah, man, we got Tim Curry, you know, like 1298 01:36:15.079 --> 01:36:20.319 he I do. Somehow he calls the shadow a sissy. I found that 1299 01:36:20.399 --> 01:36:24.640 amusing. Yeah, that's funny. I was like, wow, that's a 1300 01:36:24.760 --> 01:36:27.520 very like you don't see that used as an insult anymore, right, No, 1301 01:36:27.960 --> 01:36:33.840 no, sissy? Yeah, what did you call me? Yeah, 1302 01:36:34.359 --> 01:36:43.039 nobody calls me sissy. That's the original version of Back to the Future too, 1303 01:36:43.119 --> 01:36:46.520 before they cooled it. I love it how they even went with chicken, 1304 01:36:46.560 --> 01:36:50.159 which even in like the eighties, that feels like so old school, 1305 01:36:50.239 --> 01:36:54.800 right, you know, like you a chicken and he's like, what the 1306 01:36:54.840 --> 01:36:59.039 hell? And yet arguably again because you can imagine him calling him a sissy, 1307 01:36:59.119 --> 01:37:01.960 right, totally like like at the time in the late eighties, that 1308 01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:04.880 would have been And yet we would watch that now and we'd kind of cringe 1309 01:37:04.880 --> 01:37:10.319 a little bit. Totally. There's something timeless, weirdly, even though it's 1310 01:37:10.479 --> 01:37:14.840 very much not timeless about Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good 1311 01:37:14.880 --> 01:37:19.920 point. See now, now the Shadow had Farley Claymore kill himself, just 1312 01:37:19.960 --> 01:37:24.920 like Shiuan Khan had those other guys kill themselves. I had the same thought. 1313 01:37:26.119 --> 01:37:30.439 I was like a little yep, ye, what differentiates them in it? 1314 01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:35.960 This? Are you that good? Now? I love this this whole 1315 01:37:36.439 --> 01:37:44.079 floor set up here? Yeah? And and what I was thinking, I 1316 01:37:44.119 --> 01:37:47.239 was like, who, like, how is that part of the infrastructure? 1317 01:37:48.560 --> 01:37:50.880 How do you explain it? It's like putting at a trap door when you're 1318 01:37:50.920 --> 01:37:57.600 talking to your contractor and he's like huh. But it's an interesting thing if 1319 01:37:57.720 --> 01:37:59.920 if you read up on the production design. They're like, well, they 1320 01:38:00.119 --> 01:38:01.600 they designed the hotel, and they're like, well, what goes at the 1321 01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:04.159 top of the hotel a restaurant? So they're like, well, it's a 1322 01:38:04.279 --> 01:38:11.760 rotating restaurant, and so there would be something in the floor that would allow 1323 01:38:11.880 --> 01:38:15.800 for right, yeah, I mean it goes a little topsy turvy, right, 1324 01:38:15.880 --> 01:38:19.159 which threw him off a little bit. But yes, no, that 1325 01:38:19.159 --> 01:38:24.000 that okay? That tracks right? Kind of works. Kind of works. 1326 01:38:24.279 --> 01:38:29.279 Kind of works. Have you ever been in a rotating restaurant? I wonder 1327 01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:33.039 if that actually be fun? I mean with a view? Yeah, yes, 1328 01:38:33.239 --> 01:38:36.319 I on my see right here, you see how his face again, 1329 01:38:36.640 --> 01:38:43.079 this is Daniel Baldwin face. He's just morphing between his brothers. Basically. 1330 01:38:45.079 --> 01:38:50.640 I Yeah, on my honeymoon in in Waikiki, we went to a rotating 1331 01:38:50.680 --> 01:38:54.760 restaurant. That's the I believe that's the one and only time. See. 1332 01:38:54.760 --> 01:38:59.159 But you can imagine you'd be sitting on the outer side of this circular thing 1333 01:38:59.159 --> 01:39:01.640 that's in the middle, because you'd want to be looking out windows observing landscape. 1334 01:39:01.680 --> 01:39:03.680 But here can you imagine if you're at the table in the middle of 1335 01:39:03.720 --> 01:39:09.279 this thing just spinning around, like, ah, it's not as fun. 1336 01:39:09.319 --> 01:39:13.880 You're just spinning, You're not seeing anything. Okay, So this here now 1337 01:39:13.920 --> 01:39:19.760 it's it's throughout the movie we're told how he doesn't have the skill to control 1338 01:39:19.920 --> 01:39:25.640 the dagger, and so the movie solution is, well, now he does. 1339 01:39:27.319 --> 01:39:30.520 Yes, like he doesn't overcome anything, you know what I mean? 1340 01:39:30.640 --> 01:39:34.000 Yes, yes, it's like the dagger's like, oh, okay, I 1341 01:39:34.039 --> 01:39:38.520 guess I'm gonna listen to him. Now, if he had some sort of 1342 01:39:38.640 --> 01:39:45.319 old negative trait that he finally you know, combated and overcame, now you 1343 01:39:45.359 --> 01:39:47.119 can control the dagger, I think, yeah, I think that would have 1344 01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:53.239 helped, right, because that's the climactic thing, that's what tips the scales 1345 01:39:53.239 --> 01:39:58.560 in his direction. And it's literally it's just now I can control it, 1346 01:40:00.560 --> 01:40:08.039 you know. Yeah. Yeah, his his arc isn't very pronounced. Yeah, 1347 01:40:08.039 --> 01:40:13.079 I mean I think the you know, we we allude to earlier where 1348 01:40:13.159 --> 01:40:16.279 when he when Cranston meets Showan Khan the first time, Cranston's like, oh, 1349 01:40:16.319 --> 01:40:19.720 you're a student of the Tolku too, and and she won CON's like 1350 01:40:19.800 --> 01:40:23.880 yeah, yeah I killed him or something to that effect, right, and 1351 01:40:23.880 --> 01:40:29.199 and he doesn't react at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm 1352 01:40:29.199 --> 01:40:30.840 like, well, this guy changed his life. He's obviously a big deal 1353 01:40:30.920 --> 01:40:36.439 to him. Yeah, so I could imagine, yeah, no, go 1354 01:40:36.439 --> 01:40:40.079 ahead, Well even if he was trying to keep his cool, you would 1355 01:40:40.159 --> 01:40:45.039 imagine like a little eye twitch or something, oh that gout, Yeah exactly. 1356 01:40:45.359 --> 01:40:50.239 Yeah. Yeah. I gotta say though, this is a pretty cool 1357 01:40:50.279 --> 01:40:55.520 look for Alec Baldwin here, minus the he's wearing like the crench coat and 1358 01:40:55.520 --> 01:40:58.039 stuff. But yeah, it's cool. Look, he looks cool right here. 1359 01:40:58.119 --> 01:41:00.079 Looks like something out of the Matrix here. I totally agree. Yeah, 1360 01:41:00.600 --> 01:41:06.680 the dual pistols. So now now all this the climax here. It 1361 01:41:06.760 --> 01:41:11.800 was supposed to be a big elaborate Hall of Mirrors. I'll uh, an 1362 01:41:11.880 --> 01:41:15.600 Orson Wells movie called The Lady from Shanghai, is that where that originates? 1363 01:41:18.399 --> 01:41:25.359 I feel like that's the most prominent early example, and certainly with this the 1364 01:41:25.399 --> 01:41:29.560 obvious Orson Wells connection with the Shadow, it seems like they most probably were 1365 01:41:29.600 --> 01:41:31.239 inspired by that, right yeah, sure, Or if like we go back 1366 01:41:31.279 --> 01:41:33.880 to cave paintings, like old stories on walls, it's like, wow, 1367 01:41:33.880 --> 01:41:38.960 they had a Hall of Mirrors storyline back then in cave man days. Yeah, 1368 01:41:39.159 --> 01:41:43.760 so it was supposed to be this very elaborate sequence which they ended up 1369 01:41:44.399 --> 01:41:49.199 doing practically nothing with because of the Hollywood earthquake. It's crazy, yep, 1370 01:41:49.560 --> 01:41:54.920 right in nineteen ninety three. When when was that? When was the January 1371 01:41:54.960 --> 01:42:00.199 ninety four? Okay, yeah, so yeah, you can imagine there they're 1372 01:42:00.199 --> 01:42:04.880 getting ready to wrap things up and then they lose I mean, I would 1373 01:42:04.920 --> 01:42:12.479 imagine, yes, probably the worst thing to happen to your Hall of Mirror 1374 01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:17.840 set is an earthquake. Is an earthquake? Yeah yeah, yeah, I 1375 01:42:17.840 --> 01:42:23.359 mean I'm just imagining the producers and directors just being they just walk in and 1376 01:42:23.399 --> 01:42:28.560 there's just it's just shattered glass everywhere, you know. Yeah, and their 1377 01:42:28.600 --> 01:42:32.199 shoulders slump, you know, so no time to rebuild it. Yeah, 1378 01:42:32.239 --> 01:42:36.359 and so they had to just just green screen it together. Yeah. That's 1379 01:42:36.359 --> 01:42:42.079 too bad. It's such a shame because I think, I don't I don't 1380 01:42:42.079 --> 01:42:45.359 think the movie recovers from the ending. And it's not their fault. It's 1381 01:42:45.399 --> 01:42:46.680 not their fault, you know, I know, you know, it's funny. 1382 01:42:46.680 --> 01:42:48.840 I think I might have. I don't remember how I got here. 1383 01:42:48.840 --> 01:42:51.000 It must have been through reading about this, but I was reading about Men 1384 01:42:51.039 --> 01:42:56.239 in Black two and all the changes they had to make because their climax involved 1385 01:42:56.239 --> 01:43:00.880 the Twin Towers. Yes, and it's like you just, you know, 1386 01:43:00.920 --> 01:43:03.439 a character just disappears, you know, the movie just kind of ends, 1387 01:43:03.800 --> 01:43:09.920 and you're like, what can we do? Like, we spent years developing 1388 01:43:09.920 --> 01:43:13.159 this, writing it, money, shooting it, whatever, and it's going 1389 01:43:13.199 --> 01:43:16.079 to come out as an incomplete thing that doesn't work. But what can we 1390 01:43:16.119 --> 01:43:19.800 do? That's yeah, I mean, there are things that happen that are 1391 01:43:19.840 --> 01:43:24.600 just outside of your control, right, and sometimes sometimes the movie can recover, 1392 01:43:24.760 --> 01:43:28.720 right. I think about like a Gladiator, for example, you know, 1393 01:43:28.920 --> 01:43:32.880 Oliver Reed passed away while they were making it, and his character was 1394 01:43:32.920 --> 01:43:39.920 supposed to survive until the end of the movie, right, and they found 1395 01:43:39.920 --> 01:43:46.279 a way amazingly to write in an exit for his character. That's so masterful. 1396 01:43:46.319 --> 01:43:48.119 You to be like, oh, you didn't have that planned originally, 1397 01:43:48.479 --> 01:43:53.960 right. Sometimes things work that way. Other times they don't. Yep. 1398 01:43:54.399 --> 01:43:58.479 Yeah, see you can tell that they just this is just green streaming, 1399 01:43:58.520 --> 01:44:03.960 green screening, you know. Yeah, it's kind of impressionistic. Yeah, 1400 01:44:04.439 --> 01:44:09.479 yeah, what a bummer. It is a bummer because because this, to 1401 01:44:09.560 --> 01:44:12.279 me, I'm like, well, his face should just be getting torn to 1402 01:44:12.319 --> 01:44:21.119 pieces. Yeah, a shoe on Khan. You know, it's funny. 1403 01:44:21.199 --> 01:44:25.880 I didn't even really think about it when I was watching it, But now 1404 01:44:25.920 --> 01:44:29.600 knowing what they were working against and the solution they had to come up with, 1405 01:44:29.760 --> 01:44:32.159 now I'm like, oh wow, okay, I mean it's it's little. 1406 01:44:32.159 --> 01:44:36.680 It's like, look, considering the circumstances, you sort of you you 1407 01:44:36.720 --> 01:44:41.560 pulled a rabbit out of a hat. But it's unfortunately it it's just it 1408 01:44:41.600 --> 01:44:44.159 doesn't work the way it should have, you know. Yeah. Yeah, 1409 01:44:47.680 --> 01:44:54.439 man, A shard of the mirror through the forehead. What a way to 1410 01:44:54.439 --> 01:45:00.560 get It's pretty violent. Oh, by the way, Yeah, I'm not 1411 01:45:00.600 --> 01:45:05.039 a fan of lobotomies. I'm just gonna say screen lobotomies. I go on 1412 01:45:05.119 --> 01:45:13.720 record, Oh dude, horrifying. Yeah I was. I gonna say, 1413 01:45:13.760 --> 01:45:16.399 Oh, the knife. So you did you listen to the how did this 1414 01:45:16.439 --> 01:45:21.479 get made? Episode? Uh? Yes? So they realized they googled it 1415 01:45:21.560 --> 01:45:26.840 that that knife is the same knife, exact same knife that is used in 1416 01:45:26.880 --> 01:45:30.800 the movie The Golden Child with Eddie Murphy. That's amazing, isn't that funny? 1417 01:45:30.800 --> 01:45:33.680 Because someone was like, is that the Golden Child knife? So like 1418 01:45:33.800 --> 01:45:36.079 during the show they go on Google and look it up and it's like, 1419 01:45:36.159 --> 01:45:44.600 yep, that is literally the knife from The Golden Child. Crazy, that 1420 01:45:44.760 --> 01:45:48.159 was a paramount, I believe. I wonder you just go to a prop 1421 01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:57.880 warehouse and face on it. Hey doesn't work. Yeah, this guy looks 1422 01:45:57.880 --> 01:46:01.680 familiar by the way he does. Yeah, the the psychologist here or whatever. 1423 01:46:02.920 --> 01:46:05.479 I can hear him almost being like, oh, yeah, he'll be 1424 01:46:05.520 --> 01:46:11.319 fine. This too seem seem like Shorthand from a different era, where it's 1425 01:46:11.359 --> 01:46:14.880 like, you know, somebody's crazy because they think they're Jadgar Hoover or whatever. 1426 01:46:15.079 --> 01:46:20.760 Totally yeah, And it's like, oh, oh, these crazy people 1427 01:46:21.359 --> 01:46:27.840 right rightmling up. Now, I think I know who this guy is. 1428 01:46:28.000 --> 01:46:30.880 I think he's in Edward Scissorhands. Oh okay, and he plays like a 1429 01:46:32.199 --> 01:46:38.760 like a doctor to observing someone's mental state. Okay, so he's got his 1430 01:46:38.760 --> 01:46:41.640 his his Yeah, I think I don't know. I'll see if I find 1431 01:46:41.640 --> 01:46:45.960 it. In that rotating shot, I'm it's a nice shot where where it's 1432 01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:48.199 the cameras spinning around them as they kiss. But I'm always like, is 1433 01:46:48.199 --> 01:46:53.000 that awkward for the actors to just be like kissing as this camera is just 1434 01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:57.560 going around him around? Yeah? I do like that. By the way, 1435 01:46:57.920 --> 01:46:59.800 how how will you know? And he's like, I'll know. I 1436 01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:02.640 think that's it's clever. It doesn't say the shadow. Nos. See that 1437 01:47:02.720 --> 01:47:06.159 shot right there, tell me that's not part of that. Same those other 1438 01:47:06.199 --> 01:47:11.680 shots of him that afternoon where they were waiting for someone to like get a 1439 01:47:11.720 --> 01:47:14.880 set. Yeah, yeah. Ready, So they're like, I'll just shoot 1440 01:47:14.880 --> 01:47:17.600 some glamour shots of them real fast. Yeah, doesn't feel like that spinning 1441 01:47:17.640 --> 01:47:24.079 towards camera, spinning away from camera, rising into camera, totally exactly right. 1442 01:47:24.720 --> 01:47:27.399 Yeah, But movie kissing scenes, I always think about that. I'm 1443 01:47:27.399 --> 01:47:30.159 like, is it awkward to them to just be like playing tonsil hockey. 1444 01:47:30.680 --> 01:47:35.239 Well, I think it could be because the camera is doing a lot of 1445 01:47:35.239 --> 01:47:40.239 business, so it's really dynamic and interesting for us, and we're looking at 1446 01:47:40.239 --> 01:47:43.159 a lot of things and the shot is changing, the image is changing, 1447 01:47:43.439 --> 01:47:45.159 we're moving in, we're moving out, whatever. But for them, they're 1448 01:47:45.199 --> 01:47:50.720 just literally standing still for yeah, thirty seconds straight, just kissing while yeah, 1449 01:47:50.840 --> 01:47:55.880 camera is doing all sorts of stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's weird. 1450 01:47:56.319 --> 01:47:59.640 Eh. I mean it depends what you're kissing. I suppose maybe, 1451 01:47:59.720 --> 01:48:04.399 I suppose sometimes it's a blessing. Uh, that's a good point. Oh 1452 01:48:04.560 --> 01:48:08.159 that is it. I looked it up. It's the guy from Edwards Scissorhands. 1453 01:48:08.439 --> 01:48:12.279 How funny. I just I could see him saying, because he gives 1454 01:48:12.279 --> 01:48:15.640 this long diagnosis, he doesn't know the world, he doesn't understand our ways, 1455 01:48:15.920 --> 01:48:16.640 And the cops like, yeah, but will he be all right? 1456 01:48:16.720 --> 01:48:19.880 And the doctor's like, oh, yeah, he'll be fine. Just seeing 1457 01:48:19.920 --> 01:48:24.239 his face, I could hear him saying that, and that that was like 1458 01:48:24.319 --> 01:48:27.439 the same year as this, wasn't it. Uh? I want to say 1459 01:48:27.439 --> 01:48:30.119 that was ninety Oh that was ninety Yeah, that was that was his hands. 1460 01:48:30.359 --> 01:48:33.560 So maybe him being cast in this was like a little little nod to 1461 01:48:33.640 --> 01:48:36.800 that. Yeah, he's good at that. You know. I found it 1462 01:48:36.840 --> 01:48:40.319 interesting too as we're wrapping up with the credits are going. But uh, 1463 01:48:41.079 --> 01:48:45.479 I read as a little bit of trivia that they made a super nes game 1464 01:48:45.239 --> 01:48:48.560 based on the shadow It was done, but yeah, he didn't release it 1465 01:48:48.600 --> 01:48:51.920 because of the disappointing box office. That's right. It's not wild. Yeah, 1466 01:48:51.920 --> 01:48:57.880 they it's it's you can download it now and play it. But it 1467 01:48:57.920 --> 01:49:00.399 seems just from what I've seen, it's just another one of the platformers from 1468 01:49:00.399 --> 01:49:02.680 that era. You know. Oh, I can picture it. I can, 1469 01:49:02.840 --> 01:49:08.159 you know, totally picture the side scrolly Batman or whatever it could be 1470 01:49:08.239 --> 01:49:15.199 anybody. Yeah. Now the song here original sin. This was later released 1471 01:49:15.279 --> 01:49:18.880 by This is Taylor Dancing It, but it was later released by Meatloaf real 1472 01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:24.199 like a year later. Yeah, but this this version has like shadow lyrics 1473 01:49:25.840 --> 01:49:30.720 where it's like who knows what you whatever, She's some some shadow related thing. 1474 01:49:30.119 --> 01:49:34.520 Interesting. That's kind of It's sort of like the I Don't Want to 1475 01:49:34.520 --> 01:49:39.000 Close my Eyes from AMAgeddon, where they had the country version and then they 1476 01:49:39.000 --> 01:49:43.920 had the Aerosmith version. You know, that's kind of fascinating, isn't it. 1477 01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:45.840 It's like, let's cover all bases, you know, like let's have 1478 01:49:45.880 --> 01:49:50.800 the hip hop. It's like from Conna Air, How Do I Live? 1479 01:49:51.680 --> 01:49:56.800 Yeah, totally yeah, which which like the the version in the movie is 1480 01:49:56.840 --> 01:49:59.600 sung by Tricia Yearwood. But I feel like the Leanne rhymes one is one 1481 01:49:59.600 --> 01:50:02.439 that more know, you know, Yeah, it's funny how that happened or 1482 01:50:02.479 --> 01:50:05.680 you know. Another example is, you know Selene Dion has if you asked 1483 01:50:05.680 --> 01:50:11.960 Me to m that was originally that was a James Bond song. It was 1484 01:50:12.000 --> 01:50:16.079 in License to Kill, Oh huh. But like the version that became popular 1485 01:50:16.159 --> 01:50:21.199 came a couple of years later when Selene Dion recorded it. Wow, it's 1486 01:50:21.199 --> 01:50:27.880 a fun random yeah yeah. I pulled up the video for the original sin 1487 01:50:28.039 --> 01:50:30.000 song. I mentioned earlier how you have certain footage that's different, and I'm 1488 01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:35.199 like, man, that talk about just like those old time music videos tied 1489 01:50:35.199 --> 01:50:39.600 into movies are just like an artifact from that time. I just don't think 1490 01:50:39.640 --> 01:50:42.840 we see those anymore. No, like Kiss from a Rose or something, 1491 01:50:43.600 --> 01:50:47.319 yeah, where it's like seal but there's actually the bat signal behind him mm 1492 01:50:47.399 --> 01:50:50.479 hm. And you got all the clips from the movie I mean the video 1493 01:50:50.760 --> 01:50:55.560 for this movie, for this song, I mean it spoils into the movie. 1494 01:50:55.600 --> 01:51:00.079 You literally see the mirror thing flying into shoon CON's head. Nah, 1495 01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:03.800 why would you put that in the video anyway? That's right, Like, 1496 01:51:03.840 --> 01:51:06.840 well, that's kind of it's kind of a big deal. Yeah, that's 1497 01:51:06.880 --> 01:51:13.279 weird. So this movie was made for a budget of forty million, I 1498 01:51:13.319 --> 01:51:18.359 believe, okay, which was substantial at the time. Wow, yeah, 1499 01:51:18.439 --> 01:51:23.479 right, I mean because Batman five years earlier, I think that cost what 1500 01:51:23.720 --> 01:51:29.079 like thirty million? I think. Okay, I think that's right, So 1501 01:51:30.439 --> 01:51:33.319 it was. It wasn't cheap, you know, but it ended up making 1502 01:51:33.880 --> 01:51:41.479 globally forty eight million, so I mean, there's no sugarcoating. It made 1503 01:51:41.560 --> 01:51:44.239 less than its budget domestic, which is weird to think about, right, 1504 01:51:44.319 --> 01:51:49.640 Like I was thinking about, like, you know, it made thirty seven 1505 01:51:49.720 --> 01:51:57.680 million dollars in the US or something thereabouts, and that just feels odd, 1506 01:51:57.720 --> 01:52:01.880 Like I can't imagine and a big budget movie like this topping out at that 1507 01:52:02.000 --> 01:52:10.439 amount today. No, And it feels I don't know, people went to 1508 01:52:10.479 --> 01:52:14.439 the movies more. I think people movies didn't cost as much, you'd be 1509 01:52:14.479 --> 01:52:17.039 willing to take greater risks checking something out, like let's see what this is, 1510 01:52:17.600 --> 01:52:23.600 and people just saw this and said, no, yeah it Well it 1511 01:52:24.039 --> 01:52:27.800 opened in second place. Yeah, oh it was Kenny g Sorry, I 1512 01:52:27.800 --> 01:52:30.000 see the credit going up. I knew it. There you go. It 1513 01:52:30.079 --> 01:52:32.800 had to be some sort of monetary reason to do that stupid decision. Yeah. 1514 01:52:32.840 --> 01:52:38.119 Anyway, it opened in second place, which you might say, like, 1515 01:52:38.119 --> 01:52:40.920 oh, well that's I'm glad to see Walter Gibson, by the way, 1516 01:52:40.960 --> 01:52:46.520 get credit there. Uh, but but it opened second to The Lion 1517 01:52:46.640 --> 01:52:50.399 King. Okay, fair, and so I'm sure universe is like, okay, 1518 01:52:50.439 --> 01:52:55.159 okay, that's fine. Second you know, that's okay. But then 1519 01:52:55.239 --> 01:53:00.399 like a week later, Forrest Gump came out. O jeez. So I 1520 01:53:00.439 --> 01:53:02.560 mean it just got clobbered like that. I was thinking about it. I 1521 01:53:02.600 --> 01:53:04.800 was like, there was a chance where this movie could have hung in there, 1522 01:53:06.000 --> 01:53:12.319 but you basically had your family viewing bases covered. Oh this was a 1523 01:53:12.439 --> 01:53:15.880 colossal summer. Yes, True Lies was also the same month, if I'm 1524 01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:20.239 not mistaken. Yeah. Yeah, so there's your top three of that year. 1525 01:53:20.319 --> 01:53:24.640 You got Lion King, Forrest Gump, True Lies in whatever order, 1526 01:53:24.760 --> 01:53:29.800 Get speed out there somewhere. Speed Yeah, so Speed and true Lies covered 1527 01:53:29.840 --> 01:53:34.039 your R rated action Forrest Gump and Lion King got your family movie. So 1528 01:53:34.079 --> 01:53:36.479 there's just no room in the market for this. So it's not hard to 1529 01:53:36.479 --> 01:53:41.000 see why it tanked. And again, I remember the full on marketing push. 1530 01:53:41.039 --> 01:53:43.840 I remember that logo that we see at the very end there with the 1531 01:53:43.880 --> 01:53:45.399 shadow, you know, his eyes and stuff, that they were trying to 1532 01:53:45.399 --> 01:53:48.840 make that a thing. They were trying to make fetch happen with that exactly. 1533 01:53:48.880 --> 01:53:51.399 Yeah, yeah, you know, I remember the toys and everything, 1534 01:53:51.680 --> 01:53:55.800 and yeah, it just it just was not meant to be. But I 1535 01:53:55.840 --> 01:53:59.600 will say I will reiterate what I said earlier. I think there's there's a 1536 01:53:59.680 --> 01:54:04.159 way. I think the ingredients are all there to do something with. I 1537 01:54:04.199 --> 01:54:09.520 completely agree with that. I don't know why it didn't congeal entirely. I 1538 01:54:09.520 --> 01:54:11.920 could sit here and think about it, but I at the end of the 1539 01:54:12.000 --> 01:54:15.880 day, I just don't feel like it did. Yeah. But in our 1540 01:54:15.000 --> 01:54:18.720 series of looking at these movies from the nineties, of these like sort of 1541 01:54:18.800 --> 01:54:23.279 dustier old heroes, and I don't know them, I'm watching them for the 1542 01:54:23.279 --> 01:54:25.840 first time. Like, I don't think I'd go out of my way to 1543 01:54:25.840 --> 01:54:28.439 recommend this to anybody if I'm being honest, r who hasn't seen it, 1544 01:54:28.760 --> 01:54:32.920 But if people are interested in that sort of specific thing, yeah, I 1545 01:54:32.920 --> 01:54:36.800 think if you're delving into these movies, then yeah, you should obviously include 1546 01:54:36.800 --> 01:54:41.439 this one in the mix too. It's an interesting artifact for sure. And 1547 01:54:41.479 --> 01:54:43.960 for people who love the character, I think there's a lot for them to 1548 01:54:44.000 --> 01:54:45.119 chew on here, to be like I know that, Oh there's that thing. 1549 01:54:45.199 --> 01:54:47.520 Oh great, the thing I love. Like they didn't compromise it or 1550 01:54:47.640 --> 01:54:51.159 change it. I mean, it's all there. I agree. I think 1551 01:54:51.479 --> 01:54:58.119 certainly, if nothing else, it is a respectful adaptation of the mythology that 1552 01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:00.760 fans of the character can look at and say, yeah, no, this 1553 01:55:00.840 --> 01:55:04.720 is this is that thing that I know. And if nothing else, you 1554 01:55:04.760 --> 01:55:08.960 know, box office and whatever notwithstanding, you say, this is the same 1555 01:55:08.960 --> 01:55:13.720 thing I said about Dick Tracy and and the Phantom. You know, it's 1556 01:55:13.760 --> 01:55:15.239 like they didn't do a sequel. It's like, yeah, but you got 1557 01:55:15.239 --> 01:55:18.840 this one. Oh yeah, And you know, and as I said the 1558 01:55:18.840 --> 01:55:20.520 same thing with Dick Tracy, I'm like, well, do you need a 1559 01:55:20.560 --> 01:55:24.840 sequel? I feel like they covered everything you need is in that first movie. 1560 01:55:25.279 --> 01:55:28.560 I mean, I agree, you know, and I say the same 1561 01:55:28.720 --> 01:55:30.079 this like, if you like the shadow, well this gave you that. 1562 01:55:30.479 --> 01:55:34.560 Yeah, and that's hey, you know, that's why I'm it comes to 1563 01:55:34.560 --> 01:55:41.199 a conclusion, right, like I can respect that as opposed to you know, 1564 01:55:41.359 --> 01:55:45.960 so many of these things that that that very clumsily set up a cliffhanger 1565 01:55:45.239 --> 01:55:49.840 that leaves the story unresolved, that will never be resolved because they got ahead 1566 01:55:49.880 --> 01:55:56.039 of their skis you know, right, yeah they made the one. But 1567 01:55:56.159 --> 01:55:59.199 with that said, hey, you know, if if you've got any other 1568 01:55:59.359 --> 01:56:03.239 artifacts from from the nineties you want us to dip into, let us know. 1569 01:56:03.560 --> 01:56:06.039 I gotta be honest, Brian, I've been having fun going through these, 1570 01:56:06.399 --> 01:56:12.800 and one of these days I'd love to do The Lone Ranger from twenty 1571 01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:15.319 thirteen, which, as you know, is a movie that I am a 1572 01:56:15.359 --> 01:56:18.359 defender of. I know, and I am ready to go back. I 1573 01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:23.439 didn't dislike it, but I think I was a little underwhelmed by it or 1574 01:56:23.479 --> 01:56:27.800 something, and I remember it was totally into that Gore Rabinski makes a two 1575 01:56:27.840 --> 01:56:31.600 and a half hour Disney Adventure era. It was too long, but I 1576 01:56:31.600 --> 01:56:36.439 do remember the ending being super rousing, like the train sequence. So I'm 1577 01:56:36.479 --> 01:56:41.479 curious to go back that one and the Legend of Tarzan. Those are the 1578 01:56:41.520 --> 01:56:46.000 ones that I kind of I put those as a little vestigial examples of these 1579 01:56:46.039 --> 01:56:49.720 type of movies. Okay, yeah, you've mentioned that one too, So 1580 01:56:49.760 --> 01:56:55.159 I and I tend to enjoy these kinds of things. Discovering these movies that 1581 01:56:55.199 --> 01:56:59.600 I missed. Nineties movies I missed are my jam So there you go. 1582 01:56:59.760 --> 01:57:01.840 Yeah, yeah, and who knows, maybe maybe we'll end up talking through 1583 01:57:01.880 --> 01:57:05.439 them. But hey, let us know your thoughts on on this on this 1584 01:57:05.520 --> 01:57:09.720 commentary track for The Shadow. You can email us at Movie Film Podcast at 1585 01:57:09.720 --> 01:57:12.680 gmail dot com. You can also hit like on our Facebook page Facebook dot 1586 01:57:12.680 --> 01:57:16.119 com slash movie filone Podcast message us there also, you know, as I 1587 01:57:16.159 --> 01:57:19.319 said repeatedly throughout this, we take suggestions, So you know, if you've 1588 01:57:19.319 --> 01:57:23.239 got maybe we missed one and you want us to delve into it, you 1589 01:57:23.239 --> 01:57:27.159 never know, maybe maybe we will, maybe we'll take that on. You 1590 01:57:27.239 --> 01:57:30.600 never know. But with that on behalf of my partner Brian Hall. My 1591 01:57:30.680 --> 01:57:32.439 name is Zachie A. Son. This has been our commentary track for the 1592 01:57:32.439 --> 01:57:33.960 Shadow. Thanks for listening.