WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:34.719 Welcome back to the Path with Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and 2 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:38.520 I'm Ashley. Hey Robin, why don't you tell the listeners what your latest 3 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.840 trip to crime Con? Well, right before we recorded this, I took 4 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.719 my annual trip to the crime Con event, which took place in Nashville. 5 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:50.520 I've been attending crime Con virtually every year since it started in twenty seventeen. 6 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:54.840 I get my own booth on podcast row so that I can meet a lot 7 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:59.759 of listeners of The Trail and Cold and introduce myself to my podcast to a 8 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.560 bunch of new people. This is my second year going to Nashville. They 9 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.920 held it there in twenty eighteen at the Gaylord Aupryland Hotel, which is the 10 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:11.239 largest hotel I've ever been into my life. You could easily get lost there, 11 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:15.400 and it's so large that they actually have an indoor boat ride that in 12 00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:21.319 circles the entire convention. So I never left the hotel at all during my 13 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:23.560 four day stay because I didn't have to. They have everything you need right 14 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.239 there. But it was great to meet some old friends again and hang out 15 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:30.680 with some fellow podcasters who are always there, and see a lot of interesting 16 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:36.200 sessions as well. I saw John Benny Ramsey's father John Ramsey give a session. 17 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:41.200 Also John Walsh from America's Most Wanted. I wanted to meet him, 18 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:44.480 but the line for his meet and greet was so long that I didn't get 19 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:48.480 to see him. But I did get a photograph of Josh Mankowitz from Dateline. 20 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:51.239 He goes to these events all the time, but this was the first 21 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.000 time I met him and got a photo with him. And I also got 22 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:59.239 to meet Dan Stidham, the original defense attorney for Jesse Miss Kelly on the 23 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.640 West Memphis three case, who has just published a new book, so I 24 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:05.599 got a signed copy from him. And he's a really cool guy. And 25 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.719 I can always chat about the West Memphis three any time. So great experience. 26 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:14.240 That is so cool. I'm jealous, Jules, and I keep saying, 27 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:15.879 one day we're going to get there, but you know, one day, 28 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:19.960 one day, I'm hating a new baby, so we'll we'll see when 29 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.080 that one day comes. Well, I do get listeners come up to me 30 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:25.199 and ask about you too, and compliment the path when Chili's so I think 31 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:30.120 your audience is ready to meet you, bitch. I love that. And 32 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.719 one other story I wanted to mention is that the weekend after Crime Con, 33 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:38.280 I traveled to Toronto to attend an event called the Crime and Mystery Festival, 34 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:43.360 which is a mixture of true crime and fictional murder mysteries. And I was 35 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.800 invited there by Laura Norton, who hosts The fall Line podcast, because she 36 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:52.439 was invited to give a panel there because she has published a book about forensic 37 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:55.479 science called Lay Them to Rest. And what's crazy is that I get a 38 00:02:55.520 --> 00:03:00.000 shout out in the intro of the book because in twenty seventeen, Laura Hell 39 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:05.800 heard a Trail at Cold episode I did about a missing set of twins called 40 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:09.800 the Millbrook Twins, and she was so inspired that she decided to start her 41 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:15.800 own deep dive podcast in the case called The fall Line, and eventually took 42 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:20.439 covered a whole bunch of other cases and then started a new career in forensic 43 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.319 science and then published a book about her experiences. And when she gave me 44 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:28.000 the book, she signed it Robin, I literally could not have done this 45 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.319 without you. And it's so surreal to think that if she had listened to 46 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:34.879 that Trail and Cold episode, her book might have turned out her life might 47 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:38.439 have turned out differently and this book would not exist. So it was a 48 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:44.159 very flattering feeling. That's a real serendipitous, full circle moment, it was, 49 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:46.879 And what an honor. I love that she took her career and completely 50 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.719 changed it because she was so inspired. I think that's amazing and a huge 51 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:55.360 testament to you and her grit and determination. What an awesome human being, 52 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:59.479 Very very cool. Yes, she's a great human being. I got to 53 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:01.400 hang out with through again. I had seen her in years. Also hung 54 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:05.520 out with Christy Lee from Canadian True Crime, who was also at the event 55 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:10.240 and lives nearby, so it was a great time to catch up and reminisce 56 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.759 with old friends. Well, now that you've made all the listeners and us 57 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:19.040 jealous, let's dive right into this week's case. May seventh, nineteen eighty 58 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:25.439 eight, Mountainair, New Mexico. Steve Sandland, a twenty one year old 59 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:30.160 rookie with the local police department, is found dead inside the station. He's 60 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.319 been shot in the head, and the police chief pushes forward the theory that 61 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:40.639 Steve's death was either suicide or an accident. However, Steve's family becomes suspicious 62 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:45.800 when they discover several bags of marijuana inside his house and learned that Steve had 63 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:51.199 recently arrested a local resident who was involved in drug dealing. However, Steve's 64 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:57.959 family becomes suspicious when they discover several bags of marijuana inside his house and learn 65 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:01.240 that Steve had recently arrested a local resident who was involved in drug dealing. 66 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:08.360 Information is uncovered to suggest that Steve may have been the victim of a conspiracy 67 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:14.800 involving other police officers, and while his death is eventually reclassified as a homicide, 68 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:20.199 it officially remains unsolved. After that the path went Chile. So on 69 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:25.879 today's episode, we'll be covering a strange mystery involving a police officer, the 70 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:30.879 unexplained ninety eight death of Steve Sandlin. As you probably know, many law 71 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.279 enforcement officers are killed in the line of duty every year, but in the 72 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:38.439 majority of those cases, the perpetrator is brought to justice, as the death 73 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:42.120 of one of their own will often motivate police departments to solve the case as 74 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:46.480 quickly as possible, But sadly, sometimes this does not happen because the victim's 75 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:51.959 fellow officers might have actually been involved. Today's story was once featured on Unsolved 76 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:57.920 Mysteries and involves the death of a rookie officer named Steve Sandlin, who who 77 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:01.680 is found dead under suspicious circumstance is inside his own police station. Well the 78 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:05.959 superiors initially tried to write off his death as a suicide or tragic accident. 79 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:11.040 There was a lot to suggest that something very fishy was going on there, 80 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:15.079 and that an ambitious young cop who only wanted to do the right thing found 81 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.759 himself caught up in a web of corruption which cost him his life. Here's 82 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:23.959 where my heart immediately gets worried is that he's a young officer who's new to 83 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.680 the job. And when people come in like that, they really do have 84 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:32.199 that pure ambition to do good, to change the world, to make their 85 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:40.279 community safer, and they're up against a culture that is sometimes already tainted with 86 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:43.839 a that's not how we do things here, right, or you've got to 87 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.959 learn the ropes and how we actually do things. You don't cross these certain 88 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.439 lines, you know, we don't talk about certain things, we don't go 89 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:57.079 after certain individuals, and so it's it's a world that I think a lot 90 00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:00.879 of people don't understand that these young cops come in and they're being trained by 91 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:06.240 seasoned officers who might have a slanted or distorted view, and so I'm anxious 92 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:10.519 to see if he was one of those people who was a rule follower and 93 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:14.759 loud and wanted to do the right thing. Is that what actually cost him 94 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.879 his life. It's interesting that I believe you said the chief of police was 95 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:20.839 the one who initially was like, oh, it's an accident or his suicide, 96 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:26.800 when he's actually inside the own police department and he's right there with a 97 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.600 gunshot wound to his head. I've got to learn more about the wound where 98 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:33.040 it was. Why it was so easy for the chief of police to say 99 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:40.240 right away that he was potentially taking his own life or it was an accident. 100 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:45.279 But it gives me that pause for concern immediately, because I can understand 101 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:48.040 the mentality of a new officer who says, I came to this to do 102 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:54.399 everything by the book, and sometimes that's not how certain departments actually operate. 103 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:58.319 Yeah, that's pretty much what's going to happen here, and before Warmed, 104 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:01.920 there's going to be some terrible police work in this episode. Surprise, surprise, 105 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:07.120 no way. It's so infrequent that we come across a case where we've 106 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:11.399 did one recently where we were like, the police work here was stellar. 107 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.879 But that happens so rarely that I guess because we cover our unsolved cases, 108 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.439 we're rarely applauding it. Right, That's exactly what it is. Yeah, 109 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.720 the one way we were praising the police work was probably Mary Jane van Gilder, 110 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:26.680 which wound up being solved. So that's kind of the problem here is 111 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.519 so many of these unsolved cases are I've remained that way because of that police 112 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.879 work. I think that's exactly right, Jewels. I think it's because these 113 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.480 are cold cases. A lot of the times, you know, we talk 114 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.600 about there is no perfect murder. As science progresses, if the police work 115 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.600 has been done, even old police work's been done, there are miracles that 116 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:48.039 happen because of good police work, and these cold cases can be solved. 117 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:54.039 These ones when you're talking almost you know, thirty forty fifty years later and 118 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.240 the case just doesn't have a lot of details in it, we are often 119 00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:01.159 talking about the fact that police somehow drop the ball, didn't make the right 120 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:05.360 assumptions in the beginning, which prevented them from gathering the right evidence. So 121 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:11.399 I've got to remember too, who's the officer who worked the Keith's case that 122 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:15.960 was amazing and kept his case alive as well. That was actually an EMT, 123 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:18.320 not a police officer. A Dallas Lip. Oh, okay, yeah, 124 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:22.159 Dallas Lip right, yeah. Oh man. Every time I think about 125 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.240 great emergency response, it was him who said, guys, this is clearly 126 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:30.879 not a suicide, right, this is a murder. But yeah, I 127 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.840 mean, miracle law enforcement every single day. But when we talk about a 128 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.039 cold case shoot, Jules nailed it, it's because a lot of the times 129 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:43.879 it just simply wasn't investigated correctly when it happened. Our story begins in nineteen 130 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:48.600 eighty eight in this small town of mountain Air, New Mexico, an isolated 131 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:54.399 mountain community of around eleven hundred people located in Torrance County. Our central figure 132 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:58.919 is twenty one year old Steve Sandlin, a rookie officer who's been working for 133 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:05.200 for the Mountainair Police Department for eight weeks. Since his father, Tom Sandlin, 134 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.559 was a twenty year veteran with the Albuquerque Police Department. Steve wants to 135 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.480 follow in his footsteps, and, by all accounts, a career in law 136 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:18.600 enforcement is the only thing he ever wanted to do. Before he was hired 137 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.799 to work in Mountainair, Steve lived in the town of Bosque Farms with his 138 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:28.559 fiance, Michele Sturdevant and their eighteen month old son. Since Mountainair is such 139 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:33.039 a small town, only three other people besides Steve are employed by the local 140 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:37.639 police department, the Chief, David Carson, and two officers at Mondo Diaz 141 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:41.960 and Frank Peeler. In fact, when Steve first arrived in town to start 142 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:46.360 his new job, he briefly lived in a trailer with Peeler. According to 143 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:52.080 Chief Carson, Steve approached his job with an extraordinary amount of enthusiasm and worked 144 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:56.480 extremely hard, even going so far as to work during his off hours and 145 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:01.559 to put in sixteen to eighteen hour days. On the evening of May seventh, 146 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:07.000 Steve called his fiancee, Michelle and told her he was working alone inside 147 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:11.759 the mountain Air Police station filling out reports. He'd said that he was angry 148 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.279 because he'd just gotten into an argument with Chief Carson, who apparently yelled at 149 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:20.200 him over writing too many traffic tickets. Steve told Michelle that if they wanted 150 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:24.480 him to be a security guard. Then he'd just sit in the station and 151 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.960 be a security guard. At around seven pm, Michelle claimed she heard a 152 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:33.399 female voice in the background during the call. Their conversation was interrupted as Steve 153 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:37.840 muffled the phone and proceeded to speak with this woman. Michelle could not make 154 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.279 out what they were actually saying, but thought the woman in the background was 155 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.440 yelling and calling him Steve at least once. Steve got back on the line 156 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:50.240 and told Michelle that the woman was looking for the town hall and that he 157 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:54.519 had to go, but assured her the whole thing wasn't a big deal. 158 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.080 Steve then hung up the phone, but unfortunately, this would turn out to 159 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:03.679 be the last time he was confirmed to be alive. How bizarre the day 160 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:11.320 that he's actually killed. You have that he's not only fussing possibly with this 161 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:16.399 woman or kind of having a colorful conversation with this woman, but he also 162 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:18.279 got in an argument with the chief of police, who very quickly is like, 163 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:24.720 well, guess what. He either completed suicide or he accidentally discharged his 164 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:30.960 weapon. So both those things make this a very very odd call. You 165 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:35.559 can tell he's very excited about making sure he's doing his job, right, 166 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.960 he's going to write those darned tickets when people aren't following the rules. And 167 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:43.000 again Chief Carson says, you know, backup, boy, that's not how 168 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:45.240 we're doing it here, right, That's just not how we do it. 169 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:50.039 And you see him getting so angry because he feels so called with his dad's 170 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:54.000 history of law enforcement, with his own little family at home. You can 171 00:12:54.120 --> 00:13:00.759 tell he's driven by that desire to serve like his dad, to make his 172 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.639 child proud. And yet here he is just a couple weeks on the job, 173 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.440 and he's already so frustrated with the fact that he's being a little bit 174 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.639 derailed by the chief, and now here's this mystery woman who's maybe screaming on 175 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:18.279 his name. It's very odd. Yeah, you pretty much called that during 176 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.639 the intro that Steve was going to be established as like a very enthusiastic cop 177 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:28.320 who pretty much wanted to do this his whole life and wanted to work hard 178 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.200 and do the right thing. Yet he's only in this small town for like 179 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:35.519 a limited amount of time before he just becomes completely disillusioned from the job. 180 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:37.519 And I think that's kind of a sign that there must have been some major 181 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:43.879 culture problems there. If Steve could become that frustrated that quickly in eight weeks, 182 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.639 can you imagine you'd think that if you were so enthusiastic, You're stoked 183 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.440 about this new job. It's a lifelong dream, your dad was a twenty 184 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.679 year veteran of the Albuquerque Police Department. You're going to be so excited. 185 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.519 It would take a lot to kind of dampen your mood and to bring you 186 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.799 back down to earth and go, oh, like, maybe there's something else 187 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.919 going on here. I think you're right, Robin, that that speaks to 188 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:11.879 really problematic culture within that police department, because it's just so sad that he 189 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:18.440 actualizes his dream and becomes a police officer and then eight short weeks later he's 190 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.639 deceased. Here's what else is interesting. You got to remember they're in a 191 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:24.840 tiny town, right, So isn't he serving in a town of eleven hundred 192 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.240 people? That's correct, Yeah, But as we're going to talk about, 193 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.759 there seemed to be an awful lot of criminal activity in this town for such 194 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.279 a small place. Well, it's also going to be one of those places 195 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.519 where even if there is a lot of criminal activity, everyone knows everyone and 196 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:45.320 so there's a lot of entitlement from citizens with law enforcement also in that kind 197 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.360 of culture, Like we live in a very, very small town. We 198 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:52.720 actually just got a new parking officer who goes around and writes tickets to people 199 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:56.480 who don't pay their parking because we're a little tourist town and you should hear 200 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:03.399 local people in ray, how dare I got a ticket? And I laugh. 201 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:05.679 I called my husband. I was like, well, did they pay 202 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:09.840 their ticket? Did they pay their parking fee? Did they pay the box 203 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.759 or the meter? Because that's the law, Like why is everybody so mad 204 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:18.759 at his poor new officer who's having a joy just writing ticket after a ticket 205 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:24.240 for the city when people don't pay their parking. But the local citizens are 206 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.639 outraged because does he know who I am? Right? I live here, 207 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:30.919 And it's like, well, you still have to follow the rules, buddy, 208 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.200 and other officers have been really lax on people because they know their cars, 209 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.639 they know their family, they grew up in school with them. So 210 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:41.639 I think there's a lot of that as well, like older officers would have 211 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:46.879 that connection and know everyone, and this new young officer comes in and it's 212 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.799 off putting to a lot of people that he is enforcing those rules. Yeah, 213 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:54.799 I would not surprise me if that's what happened. That Steve was just 214 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.519 wanting to follow the law and didn't understand the way things work in this town 215 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:04.720 like they always have so. Shortly thereafter, Chief Carson claimed that he received 216 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:08.639 a radio call from Eugenie Wright, a soldier on lee from four Hood, 217 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:12.759 Texas who happened to be a friend of Carson's son. Wright told him that 218 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:17.240 he had just entered the police station and discovered one of the officers on the 219 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:21.720 ground surrounded with blood. At around seven forty five, Carson and one of 220 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:26.639 his officers and Mondo Diaz arrived at the scene together and found Steve's body on 221 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.080 the floor. He had been shot in the head and his three fifty seven 222 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.080 magnum was resting by his side. Steve was still alive at this time, 223 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:38.200 so Carson called for help, but shortly after emergency medical services arrived, Steve 224 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:42.360 passed away and was pronounced dead at the scene. It would turn out that 225 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:45.840 the bull which killed Steve had been fired from his own gun, which was 226 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:51.279 missing one round. According to Carson, he did not see any noticeable signs 227 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:55.799 of foul play or that a violent confrontation had taken place inside the police station. 228 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.960 His initial assessment was that Steve's death may have been a suicide, possibly 229 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:06.559 because he was disillusioned about their final conversation together. As you recall, Steve 230 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:11.160 had told Michelle that Carson yelled at him earlier that afternoon over traffic tickets he 231 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.680 had written. Carson confirmed that this conversation did take place, but maintained that 232 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:21.039 it was more amicable in nature. He said that he had simply advised Steve 233 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:25.279 to slow things down and take it easy and not burn himself out because quote 234 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:29.400 unquote, you don't have to catch everybody. In spite of this, Carson 235 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:33.680 thought that Steve seemed a little down after their conversation and wondered if perhaps it 236 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.880 might have prompted him to take his own life. Of course, Steve's family 237 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.200 and friends completely refuted the idea that he was suicidal and that such a minor 238 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:47.119 incident could have compelled him to shoot himself. According to Michelle, while Steve 239 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:51.160 seemed angry during their final phone call, he had been discussing their plans to 240 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:55.039 celebrate Mother's Day, which did not seem like the actions of someone who was 241 00:17:55.079 --> 00:18:00.799 planning suicide. Carson also pushed forward the idea that Steve's dead maybe been an 242 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:04.279 accident, as he was apparently prone to playing with his gun, so perhaps 243 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:11.119 the weapon accidentally discharged and fired the fatal bullet into his head. So for 244 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.839 me, there's zero way that that conversation actually caused a person to take their 245 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:21.240 own life. It's totally different if you had told me Chief Carson approached him 246 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:26.240 about a potential investigation. It is something he had done that there was potentially 247 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:30.200 he was going to lose his job and have legal action taken against him or 248 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:34.400 something. But here's this young man who's engaged, he has a baby, 249 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.319 he has a new career, and he's frustrated that he can't just do his 250 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:42.640 job the way he wants to. It's someone venting to their wife or fiance 251 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:47.720 that how dare this guy be such a jerk? Like I'm doing my job 252 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:51.880 and he won't let me. That's just normal husband and wife conversation, not 253 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.599 I hate. This is so tragic. There's nothing that was even a big 254 00:18:55.640 --> 00:19:00.920 deal about this conversation. He's angry that he was following the rule and this 255 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.440 guy says, lay off of people, Right, that's a natural frustration. 256 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.319 Not something you take your life over. And he's sitting there planning Mother's Day 257 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:11.839 events with his fiance while he has a little one. So that's a big 258 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:17.599 deal when your babies are a little Mother's Day is a huge deal because mama 259 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:22.720 just gave birth to that baby eighteen months earlier and it's their what second Mother's 260 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.960 Day together? Right? So no way, there's just no way that this 261 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.319 caused him to take his own life. The level of fragility that they're speaking 262 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:37.279 about with regards to how deeply impacted he would have been by just a simple 263 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.519 exchange of words saying yeah, write less tickets. That would have showed in 264 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.559 every other aspect of his life. People would have thought you wouldn't make a 265 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:49.920 good cop because you don't have the particular constitution to be able to take criticism. 266 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:55.119 I think we would have seen mental health difficulties. And Ashley, you 267 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:59.400 can speak to this because you've worked with police departments. But isn't there typically 268 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.759 psychologue screening? Oh yeah, there is, And there's also I mean, 269 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.920 like I said, you often see suicide and things like that becoming an issue 270 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:12.720 longer on the forest when there's you're exposed to a lot maybe there's a case 271 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:17.319 that really haunts you and sticks with you. Maybe there's a trauma that's triggered. 272 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:21.680 He's only been there for eight weeks and he's you can hear him well. 273 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.400 Like the one thing that he's really driven by his writing parking tickets. 274 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.640 So I don't see our traffic tickets. I just don't see this being a 275 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:34.799 high stress job for him yet. Well. The results of Steve's autopsy were 276 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:41.759 inconclusive, but it did bring up some troubling issues for Starters. The coroner 277 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.680 believed that the gun may have been as many as two feet away from Steve's 278 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.799 head when the shot was fired, and it seemed pretty out of the ordinary 279 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.559 for someone to kill themselves by holding their guns such a long distance away. 280 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:59.720 There was also what was described as a very insignificant amount of gunpowder on Steve's 281 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.319 hand, which seemed to go against the idea that he could have fired the 282 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:07.680 weapon himself. Steve also had bruises on both of his cheeks and a cut 283 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:12.359 over his left eyebrow, though they theoretically could have been caused by the force 284 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:18.160 of his head hitting the floor. But since the Mountainair PD had virtually no 285 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.480 formal training in handling evidence, Steve's death scene had not been properly preserved and 286 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:27.920 sealed off. In spite of these discrepancies, the state Attorney General would not 287 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:33.640 completely rule out the possibility of a suicide or accidental death, so it was 288 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:37.799 officially classified as undetermined. However, there were a number of red flags to 289 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:44.839 suggest to Steve's family that something was wrong. Steve's funeral was heavily attended by 290 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:48.640 some of Mountainair's most prominent citizens, including the mayor and the town council. 291 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:55.799 Investigators from the Attorney General's office were in attendance, and some of Tom Sandlin's 292 00:21:55.799 --> 00:22:00.559 former colleagues with the Albuquerque Police Department made the trip to Mountair dead be there. 293 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:07.200 Yet, no one else from the Mountainair PD, including Chief Carson Edmundo 294 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:11.559 Diaz and Frank Peeler, attended Steve's funeral, even though a notice had been 295 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:18.200 published which said they would be honorary pallbearers. They would later claim that Steve's 296 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:22.200 death hit them pretty hard and they couldn't bring themselves to attend, But it 297 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.680 was pretty out of the ordinary for police officers to not pay their final respects 298 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.599 to one of their own after they were killed. In the line of judy 299 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:36.200 if that wasn't enough. Within a week of Steve's death, Heeler resigned from 300 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:40.119 the force, and the official reason was that he had been found to have 301 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:45.079 contributed to the delinquency of a minor by giving them alcohol. Very odd that 302 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:48.640 they wouldn't attend the funeral. This is someone who was a newbie ond the 303 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.799 force. Is a young man who has a fiance and a little baby who 304 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:57.319 are grieving his death, and out of just respect for that woman and child, 305 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:03.440 you would think that these individuals would show up. No one showed up. 306 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.480 That is a slap in the face to the entire family and to the 307 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:10.680 father who says I was a man in blue as well, and you just 308 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.039 didn't you know, like you didn't show up for my son, you didn't 309 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:21.079 show up for his grieving widow and baby. That automatically puts alarm bells off. 310 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:23.440 And then, like you indicated, you had one of these officers resigned 311 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.640 because he was contributing to the delinquency of a minor. You can tell that 312 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:33.759 it is that small town lacks like I'm above the law and I can kind 313 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.880 of do what I want because these are my people. But that's not how 314 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:40.680 it works. You gotta follow the rules. So I'm very frustrated. I'm 315 00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:44.720 hurting for his widow and child who look up and you know, there's nobody 316 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.240 when that baby grows up and looks back, there's nobody in a uniform representing 317 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.640 dad and supporting him. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Yeah, 318 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.519 from what I've heard, that is a major no no in law enforcement, 319 00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:59.319 because it's pretty much a rule that if one of your own is killed 320 00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:02.759 in the line of doing you attend the funeral, even if it was someone 321 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:06.200 you did not personally like or get along with. It's the respectful thing to 322 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.599 do. And it's kind of a weird excuse where it's like, well, 323 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:14.200 we couldn't attend because Steve's death hit us pretty hard. But they really didn't 324 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:17.920 know him all that well, So it seems ridiculous that all these people who 325 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:21.440 barely knew him were going to make a trip from another city to attend the 326 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.880 funeral and they won't even do that for one of their own fellow officers. 327 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.440 And it's not even just for him, it's for the family, it's for 328 00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:30.599 you make a vow that if something happens to him you're going to take care 329 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.880 of his family, and that widow sitting there with no one from that department 330 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:41.160 where he was killed. No one's there. It's a big fu and I'm 331 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:47.680 sorry. The collective group of the entire police department thought it was too much. 332 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.720 I could see that it could potentially hit one person really hard, and 333 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:55.640 perhaps they were having like they were triggered by it in some way, and 334 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.000 their reaction was too much that they thought, Okay, maybe you would be 335 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:03.079 inappropriate for me to attend, but not for every single member to attend, 336 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.960 especially not the chief. It looks so bad, Like what do you think 337 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:14.960 is father's colleagues from the Albuquerque Police Department thought when they showed up, and 338 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.079 like you said, it's a huge no no, and none of his the 339 00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:22.799 police department are there. It looks so sketchy. Anyway. Three days after 340 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.559 Steve was killed, his fiance, Michelle, went to his house to collect 341 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:30.720 his belongings and was accompanied by Steve's mother and stepfather. To a complete shock, 342 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:36.960 Michelle discovered five bags of marijuana inside a drawer in the kitchen. Prior 343 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.000 to this, Steve's house had already been searched by the Mountaineer PD the state 344 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.680 Police and the Attorney General's office, but none of them uncovered the marijuana, 345 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.319 even though it was not hidden at all and could be found by simply opening 346 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.680 the drawer. Steve's family were adamant that he never used drugs, and a 347 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:57.480 toxicology report found no trace of marijuana or any other drugs in his system. 348 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:03.240 And there was another being discrepancy. Since he first showing the Mountaineer PD, 349 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:07.359 Steve had always carried around a small tape recorder to keep a record of all 350 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.519 the traffic stops he made while on duty. He'd apparently recorded multiple cassette tapes 351 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.799 worth a material during his eight week tenure with the department, but Steve's family 352 00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:21.759 could not find these tapes anywhere inside his house. That's so bizarre. It's 353 00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:26.920 almost like the marijuana was planted there, or that no one really cared to 354 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.559 investigate the home and see what could have been happening, but more likely that 355 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.720 it was planted there. And then there's these missing tapes, where had he 356 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:41.240 uncovered something that made him uncomfortable or observed behavior from a superior or a fellow 357 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.400 officer that he wasn't okay with. He could have easily had that on a 358 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:49.640 recording in this little tape recorder he had, but they're missing, And so 359 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.720 you have evidence that's present that wasn't found, and then you have evidence that's 360 00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:59.440 missing, right, that could indicate what happened, and neither seem right. 361 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.640 That whole thing about the tapes is pretty crazy, because I'm sure you know 362 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.559 that these days there's always big controversy and law enforcement about bodycams and how sometimes 363 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:12.960 officers will not turn them on during very convenient times when they're doing something controversial. 364 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:17.400 Yet here's Steve, who's such a responsible police officer at the back in 365 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:19.960 the eighties, before the invention of body cams. He's carrying around a tape 366 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:23.440 recorder to keep a record of all his traffic stops. So he seemed like 367 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:26.920 a guy who wanted everything on the record so that if something went wrong, 368 00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:32.680 he wanted to have a recording of it. Robin, I forgot to ask 369 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:36.480 you this question earlier, but it was something that was absurd that was said 370 00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:40.720 about Steve, and I just wondered if there was any more context for it, 371 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:44.799 and that was that Steve was known to play with his gun. I 372 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.359 thought this sounded like an insane thing. The idea that he would have had 373 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.839 accidentally shot himself while inside the police department because he was playing with his gun. 374 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.599 Yep, that's what Carson said. Like when they tried to push that 375 00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:59.759 this wasn't suicide, Carson says, well, maybe it was an accident. 376 00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:03.359 He is playing with his gun and accidentally went off, and sounds like he's 377 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:07.519 describing a child there, Like knowing what a responsible officer Steve is that he 378 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.279 doesn't sound like someone who's who's twenty one years old, who's just gonna play 379 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.799 with a guy. It'd be so irresponsible that he accidentally shoots himself. And 380 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.839 he remembered he just went through training to make sure he's a responsible gun owner 381 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.319 and operator and a law enforcement agent who has a gun to his disposal, 382 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:30.039 so everyone knows you don't play with your gun and if you are looking at 383 00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.079 your weapon, then you're able to operate in a responsible, safe manner. 384 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:37.279 It would be very odd to me that an officer would be sitting at his 385 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:41.759 desk and accidentally disfire his weapon. I just discharge his weapon. I just 386 00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:47.680 don't think that that's a reality. And with the father that was on the 387 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:52.720 Albuquerque Police force for twenty years, I would think that he would have taught 388 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.000 him his son something about guns, maybe not how to shoot them or how 389 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.279 to handle them, but just how to be safe around them, because officers 390 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.799 will take home their guns and then typically lock them up, will they not? 391 00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:07.359 Yes, yes, And with a child in the house, one of 392 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:11.640 his biggest things would be, we don't play with a gun. Our weapons 393 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.880 are our weapons, and if you pick it up, you better be capable 394 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.759 of understanding what the consequences are of that. And I think for a father, 395 00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:22.640 you would make sure your child was very well aware of how serious it 396 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.759 was and how it is not a toy. It's a weapon that can kill 397 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:30.799 someone, and you got to be willing when you pick up a weapon that 398 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.359 that's the consequence. So yeah, no way does he sit there and twiddle 399 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.880 the gun or roll it around in his fingers, which is not happening. 400 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.359 Why would you even pull your side arm unless there was a threat. Suspicion 401 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.319 started amount that Steve's death may have been related to an arrest he made on 402 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:49.960 the job. One of Steve's routines while he was on patrol was to wait 403 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.279 outside local bars to check for drunk drivers. On the evening of April eleventh, 404 00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.279 less than one month before his death, Steve pulled over an intoxicated motorist 405 00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:06.400 named Melvin King, who also happened to have marijuana on him. He arrested 406 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:10.279 King for possession and was able to obtain a warrant for the Mountain Air PD 407 00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:15.880 to search King's house. They wound up finding fifty four pounds of marijuana, 408 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:21.039 which had a street value of around one hundred thousand dollars. While within days 409 00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:26.680 of this bust, Steve apparently started receiving death threats, including anonymous notes and 410 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.079 phone calls. By this point, Stephen moved out of the trailer he shared 411 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:36.079 with Frank Peeler and was renting a house, but since he often found threatening 412 00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:40.839 notes on his front door, he became too paranoid to sleep there. Three 413 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:44.279 days prior to his death, Steve asked a friend to spend the night at 414 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.720 his house with him because he was scared to be alone. That's insane. 415 00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:52.680 So within eight weeks he had moved in with one of his fellow officers, 416 00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.480 but then decided, I'm not going to stay there. He goes and he 417 00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:00.440 rents his own house, and he's so scared based on these threats, receiving 418 00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.920 and backlash he's receiving that he can't even sleep in his own home as a 419 00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:11.400 trained officer with a weapon at his disposal. Something's way more serious than he's 420 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:15.680 led on to anybody, Because, like I said, you have an officer 421 00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:19.480 who has his weapon at a service weapon at home and is trained to handle 422 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:23.119 a dispute and he doesn't even feel like he can do that on his own 423 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:27.720 at his own home. That's horrifying. Well wait, do you hear the 424 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.799 next part. This part is really going to make you cringe about how badly 425 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:36.079 he was handled. So after his arrest, Malvin King was released on a 426 00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:40.200 one hundred thousand dollars bond, but all the charges against him were eventually dropped 427 00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:45.359 when the fifty four pounds of marijuana recovered from his house went missing, and 428 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:49.400 the circumstances of how this happened are pretty unbelievable. After the marijuan was seized, 429 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:52.440 it pretty much just had to sit on the floor in a corner of 430 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:57.160 the Mountaineer Police station while the officers guarded it because there was no secure place 431 00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:01.880 to store it. The marijuana eventually transferred to the Torrance County Sheriff's office in 432 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:07.839 the town of Vestancia, thirty miles away and kept inside a storage locker before 433 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:12.559 it was moved into a locked trailer in an impound yard outside the station well. 434 00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:15.680 At some point, someone apparently smashed one of the trailer's windows, broke 435 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:21.119 inside, and stole all fifty four pounds worth of the marijuana, But there 436 00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:25.839 was a disturbing discrepancy with its alleged theft. Torrance County under Sheriff Gary Watts 437 00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:30.640 claimed that the marijuana was not actually put inside the trailer until six days after 438 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:36.119 Steve's death, but the mayor of Mountainair claimed that he started hearing rumors about 439 00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:40.319 this theft weeks before Steve was killed. The bags of marijuana which were discovered 440 00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:45.400 in Steve's kitchen drawer had red and white tape on them, which was normally 441 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:49.839 used by law enforcement agencies to label evidence, and this seemed to indicate that 442 00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:53.039 these bags were some of the same marijuana that had been seized from Melvin King, 443 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:59.079 So how could it have been inside Steve's house days before it was supposedly 444 00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:04.519 stolen. King was later interviewed and denied any involvement in Steve's death, claiming 445 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.160 that he was not even a Mountain Are on the night he was killed, 446 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:12.119 and incidentally, Sheriff Watts and three of his deputies would be arrested one year 447 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:16.599 later on charges of larceny and conspiracy after it was discovered that they stole items 448 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:21.599 during a drug raid in September of nineteen eighty eight. In the end, 449 00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:25.000 two of the deputies pled guilty to misdemeanors, but the charges against Watts and 450 00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:31.119 the third deputy were dismissed. This is crazy. Fifty four pounds of marijuana 451 00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:37.279 is like a heaping pile of bags of marijuana. So this was like, 452 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:39.920 Okay, hey, guys, put it in the corner over there, Let's 453 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:45.400 move it eventually, let's store it eventually in this trailer. So just that 454 00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:51.400 alone, the protocol to have illegal drugs out on the floor in a corner 455 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.480 somewhere, like the vision of that makes me my head spin, right, 456 00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:58.920 it doesn't make any sense. And the moment you started describing it, I 457 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:04.559 thought, Okay, he clearly was part of this apprehension of king, and 458 00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:07.280 there's fifty four pounds of marijuana. I wanted to know what did the bags 459 00:34:07.280 --> 00:34:12.079 at his home look like? And then you told me they had the police 460 00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:17.599 tape on it, and so it almost sounds like it's possible Steve stumbled across 461 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:23.320 some of this law enforcement intertwinement with the drug trade around there, and that 462 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:29.519 maybe someone did put it in his home because they were gonna say, well, 463 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:30.159 you're a part of it too. And if you're a part of it 464 00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:34.480 too, now because these drugs are in your house, you can't rat on 465 00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:38.360 us either. And or there's an odd chance that Steve took something because he 466 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:43.719 was trying to build a case of knowing something wrong was going on. I 467 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:49.280 can't see him taking these bags of marijuana for his own personal use. Again, 468 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:53.199 remember there's nothing in this system indicating he was using marijuana, and he's 469 00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:59.079 such a rule follower why would he take evidence home? So that is so 470 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:04.559 concerning and can fusing because it seems like it's linked to that drug bus specifically. 471 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:09.400 And another disturbing detail is that Steve's house after his death was searched by 472 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:15.320 numerous law enforcement agencies who failed to discover the marijuana in the drawer until his 473 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:20.199 fiance stopped by there. So that makes me think that this marijuana was planted 474 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.199 there after the original law enforcement search, and because Steve was dead at this 475 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:28.199 point, there's no way he could have stolen it. So it just seems 476 00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.880 to me that like someone was trying to destroy his character, hoping that maybe 477 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:36.239 this would bring the investigation to an end. Do you think that it was 478 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.880 law enforcement that planted the marijuana? I don't know. I mean, it 479 00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:44.760 could have been Melvin King or maybe some other criminal, But I find the 480 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:47.920 timing interesting that it did show up there until after it was searched by multiple 481 00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.840 law enforcement agencies. You if it had been put there by law enforcement, 482 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:58.119 though, and they're trying to rope him into being part of a deal or 483 00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:01.199 part of a problem so that he can't rat on them, wouldn't they want 484 00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:05.159 to find it so that they could say, well, look at this, 485 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.800 he was stealing evidence he was a problem, Like maybe that's why he took 486 00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:13.360 his own life. Like I feel, there's also the other side that if 487 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:17.239 it was planted there by law enforcement because he was a problem to them, 488 00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:20.920 why wouldn't they just turn it on its face and say, look at what 489 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:23.440 a problem he was and use that as part of their explanation to kind of 490 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:29.119 get the heat and the attention away from it being an inside job killing him. 491 00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.199 I see that perspective as well. I can totally see both sides of 492 00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:36.519 it. It seems like the way that it disappeared, it almost had to 493 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:39.599 be sanctioned by law enforcement in some type of way. But then again, 494 00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:44.119 I see your point. If it was law enforcement, then why wouldn't they 495 00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:46.559 then find it so they could make such a big deal about it. Yeah, 496 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:50.480 it is weird that they didn't personally find it themselves and it just happened 497 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:54.760 to be found by his family. Tom Sandlin remembered a conversation he had with 498 00:36:54.800 --> 00:37:00.199 his son shortly before his death, in which Steve expressed his with the Mountainair 499 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:07.039 Police Department. Even though Steve had been incredibly enthusiastic about his job at first, 500 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:12.280 Tom noticed that his attitude gradually started to change, and he started saying 501 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.960 that the job wasn't what he expected. Steve told his father there was something 502 00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:21.159 going on in the town that he did not agree with and asked for advice, 503 00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.760 so Tom told him to simply tell the truth. The day before he 504 00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:30.920 was killed, Steve was interviewed by officials from the New Mexico Attorney General's Office, 505 00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:37.719 who were investigating citizen complaints about allegations of mishandling evidence. Steve was told 506 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.840 he'd be interviewed again, but he wound up dead the very next evening. 507 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:47.079 One of Steve's biggest advocates was Assistant Attorney General James S. Guarantino, who 508 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.519 came to believe that Steve had been murdered. Scarantino spoke to several witnesses who 509 00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:59.119 claimed they saw Chief Carson's patrol car parked outside the Mountainair Police Department between seven 510 00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:04.199 fifteen and seven twenty five pm on the night of Steve's death, even though 511 00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:08.039 Carson claimed that he did not arrive until seven forty five. One witness even 512 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:14.360 recalled hearing what sounded like a gunshot at seven sixteen and claiming that a white 513 00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:19.000 pickup truck was parked outside the station at that time. There was a window 514 00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:23.440 of approximately twenty five minutes when Carson's whereabouts could not be accounted for. He 515 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:28.519 was last seen by witnesses at a high school talent show at seven oh five 516 00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:34.119 and supposedly picked up at Mundo Diaz at his house at seven thirty. After 517 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:37.559 spending a few minutes on patrol together, Carson and Diaz received a call for 518 00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:43.760 assistance from the police station when asked where he was between seven oh five and 519 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:49.000 seven thirty, Carson simply said he could not remember, and Diaz also claimed 520 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.960 that Carson seemed very upset when he arrived to pick him up. When interviewed 521 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:58.840 separately, Carson and Diaz gave differing accounts about what route they drove during their 522 00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:02.039 brief time period when they were on patrol that night. When in question by 523 00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:07.360 the FBI, Carson did agree to take a polygraph test, and in spite 524 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:12.559 of the inconsistencies in his story, he still found up passing. Well, 525 00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:15.400 I mean, we can only put so much stock into a law polygraph test. 526 00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:19.400 There's a reason they're not admissible in court, but they do give us 527 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:23.559 information, and it's interesting that he does pass, especially an FBI polygraph test. 528 00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:28.239 It's so bizarre to me, though, that a chief of police, 529 00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:30.760 someone who sits down in his whole career, he said, where were you 530 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:37.039 on this day at this time, and he expects people to answer, has 531 00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:42.320 no idea where he was just a few days earlier, right between seven oh 532 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:45.639 five and seven thirty before he goes and picks up his fellow officers. So 533 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:49.920 it's it just kind of blows my mind, like that's what you do for 534 00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:53.039 a living. And your answer is I can't remember. That is weird because 535 00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:57.280 you'd think as a police officer, he would know. That would be suspicious. 536 00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.480 Like he doesn't have to give like an elaborate cover story, just say, 537 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:04.320 while I was driving around a patrol for twenty five minutes and nothing happened, 538 00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:07.360 I'd just turned on a few random streets. But the fact that he 539 00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:12.400 said he could not remember is just very telling. However, there also happened 540 00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:15.639 to be issues with the story provided by Eugene Wright, the Fort Hood soldier 541 00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:21.800 who discovered Steve's body and radio chief Carson. Wright was questioned by an army 542 00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:27.079 investigator who believed he was withholding information as he failed two polygraphs and gave a 543 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:31.360 number of inconsistent statements. Wright allegedly said that if he quote unquote told the 544 00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:36.400 truth about what happened, he would go to jail. In the summer of 545 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:40.360 nineteen eighty nine, the New Mexico Attorney General's office was approached by an Albuquerque 546 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:45.679 police detective who claimed that over a week before Steve was killed, he had 547 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:49.880 received a tip that a quote unquote gringo coop was going to be killed in 548 00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:53.519 the mountains. The tipster claimed he was passing this tip along to the Albuquerque 549 00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:59.079 PD because he didn't trust the authorities in Torrance County, but since he didn't 550 00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:02.280 provide any specific details, the detective was unable to act on this tip. 551 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:07.559 After reading about Steve's death in the newspaper, the detective turned this information over 552 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:12.800 to the state police, but they dismissed it because they initially believed that death 553 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:17.599 was a suicide. Around the same period, investigators from the Attorney General's Office 554 00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:22.239 spoke to a witness who claimed that a law enforcement officer from another agency had 555 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:27.400 confessed to killing Steve and added that it wouldn't have happened if Steve had just 556 00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:31.719 quote unquote kept his nose out of things well. James Scarantino thought this witness's 557 00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:36.840 story might be a potentially major break in the case, but within days of 558 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:40.239 receiving it, he wound up being fired by the Attorney General's Office and two 559 00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:45.599 of his investigators were reassigned. Scarantino claimed that this was because he had refused 560 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:51.480 to back off after constant pressure from his superiors to ease up on the investigation 561 00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:57.400 into Steve's death, and earlier that same year, Scarantino's predecessor had resigned from 562 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:01.880 the position of Assistant Attorney General due to his frustrations over how the investigation was 563 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:07.199 being handled. Okay, go back to this man that they had interviewed, 564 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:13.199 the officer from Fort Hood or the soldier from Fort Hood. He is the 565 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:15.039 one who discovers the body, and radio is the chief, and yet he 566 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:19.800 fails two polygraphs and says, well, if I tell the truth, I'm 567 00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:24.039 gonna go to jail. That's it. That's all we know about this guy. 568 00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:30.480 Because there's clearly something there. And I'm horrified at the fact that you 569 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:37.599 have an Attorney General's office who says, basically, back off, back off 570 00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:42.800 of this case. Your job is to achieve justice for a community. Why 571 00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.400 would any of these individuals be told back off of solving this person's murder. 572 00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:52.559 It is very bizarre, But especially when you consider that Mountaineer as a small 573 00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:55.199 town like it's not like this crime took place in a big city where you 574 00:42:55.199 --> 00:43:00.239 would expect widespread corruptions. So you wonder why the Attorney er office just wanted 575 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:05.199 this case to go away. I mean, were they involved, was powerful 576 00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:08.880 people involved in drug smuggling? Did they fifty four pounds in marijuana place some 577 00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:13.119 sort of role in Steve's death, and like you mentioned, Eugene Wright, 578 00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.320 this army soldier who he failed these polygraphs, but then they never really followed 579 00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:21.719 up on him or applied any more pressure. As you might recall, he 580 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.639 was a friend of a Chief Carson's son, so if he was involved in 581 00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:30.559 the conspiracy, he probably would have had motive to lie. It was not 582 00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:37.480 until nineteen ninety five when Steve's death was finally officially reclassified as a homicide and 583 00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:40.960 his name was added to a memorial outside the Law Enforcement Academy in Santa Fe, 584 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.880 New Mexico police officers who were killed in the line of duty, but 585 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:51.679 the investigation into his death continued to remain at a standstill. In December two 586 00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:55.719 thousand and four, Melvin King died after an apparent accidental overdose of tailanol, 587 00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:01.599 but autopsy reports also showed like the King had been on a methamphetamine high and 588 00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:07.679 dingusted antifreeze. In twenty thirteen, Robert Chung, the police chief of Mountainair 589 00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:12.920 at that time, decided to reach out to Steve's family in order to put 590 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:16.400 together a ceremony to honor him and commemorate the twenty fifth anniversary of his death. 591 00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:22.239 A four foot monument dedicated to Steve's memory was erected outside the Mountainair Police 592 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:27.920 Station, and the ceremony was attended by Steve's son, who was twenty six 593 00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:31.719 years old at that point. The station would eventually experience a fire, which 594 00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:38.239 required extensive renovations, but in May twenty nineteen, another ceremony was held in 595 00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:44.559 which the rebuilt building was renamed the Stephen A. Sandlin Memorial Police Station. 596 00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:49.480 However, Steve's death is no longer considered to be a suicide or accident. 597 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:54.440 There were still no conclusive answers about how he was killed, So I guess 598 00:44:54.480 --> 00:45:00.400 you could say the path went Chile. What's so powerf is that twenty five 599 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:06.800 years later you have a brand new law enforcement agency there. Right, almost 600 00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:10.679 everybody would probably have been replaced over those twenty five years through retirement and people 601 00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:15.840 leaving the job, and that department can look at this case and say there 602 00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:22.480 was such a lack of justice for this family. And it's probably pretty well 603 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:24.960 known that no one from that department attended the funeral, And like I was 604 00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:30.760 saying, it creates such a loss for the widow and for the son who 605 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:35.119 are looking and saying, look, my dad lost his life on the job, 606 00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:37.719 and no one cared enough about him to honor him or to show up 607 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:43.760 when we needed the most, when they're supposed to protect and serve not just 608 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:46.760 the community but each other's families, and they didn't. And then you have 609 00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:53.360 this amazing turnaround where the department says, basically, shame on us, Right 610 00:45:53.480 --> 00:46:00.920 the people before me that should have really fought for Steve and his family and 611 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:07.679 should have been there to provide the support and the respect and the love that 612 00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:10.440 Steve could no longer give to his family, they do this amazing ceremony. 613 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.800 His poor son is twenty six years old, but he finally sees his dad 614 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:20.960 being honored for the life that he wanted to live and the sacrifices he was 615 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:24.880 willing to make for his job in law enforcement. I think it's amazing because 616 00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:29.719 it's not the same people that turn their back on him at that time. 617 00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:34.800 So it's twenty five years too late, but what a beautiful sentiment for this 618 00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:37.400 family to say, Wow, this kind of new department comes forward and says, 619 00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:43.639 we realize he wasn't treated fairly, and this wasn't handled properly, and 620 00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:46.960 we respect and care about you. It's a big deal. Yeah, this 621 00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:51.239 is definitely a fresh air compared to a lot of the other cases like this 622 00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.360 we've covered, because a lot of the time, if a death is ruled 623 00:46:53.480 --> 00:47:00.400 accident or suicide, the reclassification never takes place because nobody wants to admit that 624 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.960 they were wrong. But here, Steve's death was reclassified as a homicide and 625 00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:12.119 the current administration did acknowledge that the previous police department made a lot of mistakes 626 00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:15.920 and pretty much disrespected his memory. And that's what always gives me hope for 627 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:19.519 a lot of these older cold cases that remain unsolved for decades, that you 628 00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.920 just hope that once the old garden is out of the picture, they'll get 629 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.800 some fresh blood in who wants to take a fresh look at these cases and 630 00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:30.400 do the right thing and solve them. So that's why I'm not going to 631 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:35.760 lose hope that there may be answers in Steve's death someday and there's no one 632 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:38.480 to fear here anymore. It's like everyone's probably retired or moved on and things 633 00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:42.159 like that, and it's saying, this is my police department. Now it's 634 00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:45.760 a badge I wear, and if I can uncover that there was some corruption 635 00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.559 or something going on, so be it. So I think this would be 636 00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:52.679 a good time to bring it into part one. But join us next week 637 00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:55.519 as we present part two of our series about the death of Steve Sandlin. 638 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:00.400 Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit about the Trail Cold 639 00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:04.599 Patreon. Yes. The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, 640 00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:08.599 and we offer these standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and 641 00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:14.119 I also send out stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up 642 00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:16.880 with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars tier tier two, 643 00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:22.360 we also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not 644 00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:27.400 featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, 645 00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:30.039 and if you join our highest tier tier three, the ten dollars tier. 646 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:36.519 One of the features we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of 647 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:40.000 Unsawved Mysteries, where you can download an audio file and then boot up the 648 00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:45.440 original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio 649 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:51.159 commentary playing in the background where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases 650 00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:54.320 featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did 651 00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:59.639 a commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. So if you want 652 00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.719 to download a commentary track in which I make more smart ass remarks about Jewel 653 00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:07.360 Kaylor than be sure to join Tier three. So I want to let you 654 00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:10.039 know a little bit about the Jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad 655 00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:15.159 free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our Pathwent Chili mini's, 656 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:17.360 which are always over an hour, so they're not very mini, but they're 657 00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:22.079 just too short to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those, 658 00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:24.119 so we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link them in the 659 00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:28.519 show notes. So I want to thank you all for listening, and any 660 00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:31.079 chance you have to share us on social media with a friend or to rate 661 00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:35.840 and review is greatly appreciate it. You can email us at The Pathwentchili at 662 00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:38.840 gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So 663 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:43.880 until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass 664 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.400 call for warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy