WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:25.760 It was cold Cold. That was the name. He was cold? What's 2 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:33.719 going on up there? Could be the most important event in history? Now 3 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:43.520 I am become the destroy our worlds, I said. I hope this is 4 00:00:43.880 --> 00:01:07.359 close to him? Is all every again? Hello and welcome to the Tales 5 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:08.640 from the Dark Podcast. I'm your host, Bob. Here's my co host, 6 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:11.280 Brittany. Hey, guys, what's up Brittany? How you doing doing 7 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:14.680 good? How are you? Oh? I'm doing well. I'm very excited 8 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:17.799 for this interview today. Well, I don't want to waste any time. 9 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:19.719 I want to jump right into it. But before we do, I have 10 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:25.519 to let everyone know United Strangeness of America's coming back. Shout out to Terrence. 11 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.599 Every single Patreon episode. We put up almost a two hour episode today 12 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:34.640 on Patreon for our slash TOPA been working on this for months, and every 13 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:42.719 single episode Terrence comments where United Strangeness? Or when I'm sorry? When United 14 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:46.480 Strangeness? Question mark? I know it's a fan favorite. With a little 15 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:48.920 bit of a break because we wanted to kind of recharge the batteries that will 16 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.640 be coming back this month for sure, potentially in the next week or two. 17 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:55.400 So with that being said, Miss Brittany, you're ready to give mister 18 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:57.079 Matthew Burder call, I am all right, Let's do it, all right, 19 00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:00.000 miss Brittany. So we are going to be joined Matthew Bird today. 20 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:05.760 Matthew Bird is a historian, the original paranormal Papa. This is the guy 21 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.240 that that when I when I'm not sure about how to approach something in the 22 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:12.879 paranormal, the euthological space, what have you? I run up by Matthew 23 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:15.960 first, and that he has a special place in our hearts. He's been 24 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.120 here since pretty much day one. Right, that's true. So Matthew, 25 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:21.680 thank you for joining us. How are you doing? Good, sir, 26 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:28.319 Good evening, my children, good evening. I was going to actually come 27 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:34.879 on and be like the the angry guy on the radio. I'm mad as 28 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.719 hell and I'm not going to take it anymore and talk about everything that ticks 29 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:42.759 me out. But it's it's past my bedtime, so now I'm just I'm 30 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:49.000 just gentle, gentle, gentle Matthew. Yeah, you're mellowed out. So, 31 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:53.159 Matthew, you recently moved from Scott County a little bit further north. 32 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.199 How has that move been treating you? When it comes to the world of 33 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:05.159 weird with Matthew. So it's like from one weird place to another. I 34 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:10.879 mean, it's not really that much different, to be honest. It's I'm 35 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:16.400 living in Franklin, Kentucky now, And for those who are in the paranormal 36 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:23.800 circles, there's a couple of weird things that they attached to Franklin, including 37 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:35.639 Octagon Hall and the Captain mantell Ufo crash landing and a couple other little weird 38 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:42.080 places. But it's when you look at this whole area, Bob, it's 39 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:50.240 just it's just it's just another side of the coin. That is, you 40 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:54.800 know, Somerset, the state of scott where I was, and Kentucky is 41 00:03:54.840 --> 00:04:00.240 just a weird place anyway. No, absolutely, So I like to brought 42 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.599 up Octagon Hall. Are you familiar with a TikTok controversy that was surrounding Octagon 43 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:09.360 Hall? I am not, okay, so I don't know all the details. 44 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:13.599 I wish Austin was here. There was a gentleman dude to live Stremith. 45 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:15.680 I believe he was staying there for a full week or maybe it was 46 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:19.319 three nights. He was staying there for more than one night, and that 47 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:25.120 he basically got the equivalent of like TikTok squatted where people were calling the police 48 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:29.360 on him at Octagon Hall. So I didn't know if you knew anything about 49 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:30.720 that, because I was really worried because I saw that location. It looked 50 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:34.959 really cool. We want to go investigate down there. But when stuff like 51 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:40.399 that happens, it's usually like one bad incident, especially in a historically significant 52 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:46.600 place, ruins it for everybody. No, I haven't heard anything about it, 53 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:51.600 I mean even on the local news portion of it, so I really 54 00:04:51.720 --> 00:05:00.959 can't comment on it. But Arctagon Hall is I've been a couple of times 55 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:08.279 now. Usually when someone comes to visit there, that's on the bucket list 56 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:20.480 around here, especially you know, in our circles. It's a from And 57 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:28.600 I could be wrong on the dates, but my understanding is that it just 58 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:35.480 became a museum around two thousand and one. It was formerly a residence, 59 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:45.560 and since two thousand and one, I mean it's it's built this reputation as 60 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:53.240 one of the most haunted places in the South. I've got I've I've got 61 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:59.680 thoughts on it. I've talked to the tour guides there a number of times 62 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:08.079 regards to their thoughts on it. When it comes to and this is a 63 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:15.240 big thing that I've been thinking about, is that if you visit somewhere, 64 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:23.160 especially with expectations, and in this case, to give you an idea about 65 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:30.199 Octagon Hall is you go in and you talk to the tour guide. There's 66 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:32.639 a there's a big room. He tells you about the history of the place. 67 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:42.120 He tells you about, you know, the tragic events of people who 68 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:48.759 lived in the house. You get an idea of the people, the events, 69 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:55.240 the rooms that the things happened in, and that's in your mind. 70 00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:04.160 Now. It's built a a foundation of your visit when you're free to walk 71 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:11.680 around the rooms and get impressions and such. And I have to wonder in 72 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:17.319 these kinds of places where you know, the paranormal has been introduced to the 73 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:24.199 historical on whether or not we're setting up a narrative before we even walk in 74 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:29.120 or walk into the building. That's one thing that we talk about a lot 75 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:33.399 when, especially when it came to Phantom Farm, was that the associations with 76 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:40.160 belief before you even go in, you're going to automatically associate that with the 77 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:44.480 black figure that comes out of the third hallway. Corridor, yeah, or 78 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:48.360 in Phantom Farmer specifically with Nathan getting scratched, Like we kind of went in 79 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:53.759 with the expectation, like, okay, we went in with zero expectations just 80 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:57.360 because we've been doing this for so long. But when I told us to 81 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:00.319 other people that, everybody said the same thing. Oh, it's a demon. 82 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.639 It's a demon in that basement. That's what that is. It's a 83 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.720 demon. And even the tour guide kind of leaned in a little bit to 84 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:11.920 that, with Hey, there's the ghost of Ida in the basement. And 85 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:18.480 then there's also this this entity specter thing that follows people around and attaches to 86 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:22.279 people, so on and so forth. And it's like, man, you're 87 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:26.959 tainting the historical significance with this place, something so beautiful, and you're also 88 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.000 planning the fear and any would be investigator's mind because there's you know, there's 89 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:35.799 there's you have to break it down to classifications. When you have paranormal investigators. 90 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:41.039 Some people go because Brittany drug them there, they're not really interested in 91 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.799 the paranormal. Then you have people who go because they want to be scared. 92 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.039 Then you have people who want to go because of the historical significance of 93 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:52.159 the building, like a Prospect Place is a great example. We I love 94 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:56.399 Prospect Place because not only does it have all these insane paranormal stories attached to 95 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:01.639 it, but the historical significance of that building and what it meant to the 96 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.720 underground railroad in the state of Ohio and the abolishing of slavery. That's where 97 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.759 I get excited, because I'm in a place that you in fifty years, 98 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:13.720 this place might not be here anymore. And then I can tell, you 99 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.240 know, the next door neighbor kids, how as a crazy old man, 100 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:22.200 I was ghost hunting looking for you know, this guy who was abolishing slavery 101 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.080 or something crazy. But I agree that it's very dangerous in my opinion, 102 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:31.960 to set these pre these narratives ahead of time, but it does sell. 103 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:33.440 Yeah, And that's what I want to talk to you about, Matthew, 104 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.679 because you and I are we're a fan of the history. The claims are 105 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.559 amazing. Don't get me wrong. We love the paranormal aspect, but we'll 106 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.399 go to a place with zero paranormal stories if it has historical significance and it's 107 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:50.960 it's something that Brittany gives me ship for all the time. I'm gonna let 108 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:56.600 you guys on a little secret on I am in this group on Facebook with 109 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:00.600 a bunch of other middle aged men where all we do is go to the 110 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:05.159 Ohio historical Do you guys have historical markers in Kentucky? Oh? Absolutely absolutely. 111 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:11.360 I am always looking around here, Like the church we go to. 112 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:20.240 Right outside, there's a historical marker talking about the fact that Johnny Cash and 113 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:28.080 June Carter got married in the chapel of our church. See this, this 114 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:30.639 is what I'm talking about. And whenever I see one, I'm like, 115 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.840 read me that sign. What does that say? Yeah, Well, that's 116 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.080 all this group is that I'm in. It's a bunch of a bunch of 117 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:39.759 us guys, and we just we we go to these historical markers and we 118 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.080 take pictures. We take pictures and then we comment on each other's historical markers 119 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:48.159 and we paint the history of Ohio. Well, Brittany gives me shit. 120 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:52.360 I don't give you shit. Every time every time you see oh you you 121 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:54.519 need to pull over and get a picture for your old man I'm not I 122 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.440 don't say old man group, but I always offer to let you stop and 123 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:01.679 take picture because I want to support you and whatever you do. Yeah, 124 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.919 one of my biggest regrets was telling her that's that's because I don't I don't 125 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:09.480 have many secrets in this relationship, but I didn't tell her for years. 126 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.399 I was in this group and I had no choice because we were we were 127 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.200 at the Bruckner Nature Preserve and you caught me taking pictures. You're like, 128 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:18.399 what are you doing. I'm like, I gotta get a picture of the 129 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.440 sign from my group? What group? And I tell her about it. 130 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.519 She's like, oh, okay, and I can tell that. I was 131 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.240 like, oh, this is her first ich moment with me. It's not 132 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:33.159 you're making it up. But but and for anyone that might be like, 133 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.039 oh, you know, you guys aren't letting your guests talk. Matthew is 134 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:41.879 a longtime friend of the show. This is just how how it works with 135 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:45.679 us. He's mediating right now, he's letting the children. He's probably not 136 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.960 off at this point, but no, but I wanted. I'm like, 137 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:54.200 I'm like Grandpa Simpsons, but I wanted to talk to you about this because 138 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:56.000 I do see this and this is gonna be controversial, and I know that 139 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:01.320 I might get some flaque for this, but there's a rising trend in people 140 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:05.600 buying up historical locations all across not just Ohio. I see it here in 141 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:11.360 Ohio because there's certain places I've passed that I know the history of the building, 142 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.879 that are now purchased by a foundation or an individual that's now renting them 143 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:20.200 off for some sort of a paranormal attraction, and all of a sudden, 144 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.799 this place has either a violent, bloody history that must have happened when I 145 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.559 wasn't paying attention, which you know, tells me it's it's bullshit, and 146 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.000 then they pass it off as this experience, it's an extravagance that have come 147 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.759 into an axe murder house, for example, and it's like, well, 148 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.879 first off, there's no proof that that ever happened. This is all hearsay. 149 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:45.039 Second off, you're being extremely disrespectful to these historical significance of this building. 150 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:50.039 And we're seeing this all over the country. These new paranormal locations. 151 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:56.039 Yeah, yeah, we called paranormal pop ups are happening where it's for what 152 00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:58.440 it makes the city look bad that it takes place in, and it's an 153 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.679 insult to the memory of the building. So I firmly believe that memories hold 154 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:05.080 our buildings hold memories the same way that people do. It might not be 155 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.120 as easy to recognize, but it's there because, like you just said, 156 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:11.720 when you can go into these rooms in the Octagon Hall and in your mind 157 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:16.639 you can see will you know, will Brittany walk through here in eighteen thirty 158 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:18.720 two and this is where she did laundry, you can start to envision that. 159 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:24.000 And when you're tainting that memory, that positive history with an alleged X 160 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:28.919 murder that never occurred to me, you're doing a disservice not only the location 161 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.399 but also the craft of paranormale investigation. And I wanted to kind of get 162 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:37.440 your opinion on that as well. Well, there was there's a location I 163 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:43.440 think it's in Indiana. I could be wrong on that called Willows Wheep that 164 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:52.759 sound yes, yep. So basically in that it's there, it's it's ghost 165 00:13:52.879 --> 00:14:01.000 ploytation at its finest. You're taking the the story of what happened in this 166 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:11.240 house and you're basically putting, Okay, this is what happened here, and 167 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:20.159 this is the bloody history of this. And when it comes to the folks 168 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:26.399 that remained the family of these folks and this I kind of sort want to 169 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:33.080 circle back around to Fanom Farm when they were talking about Ida and they were 170 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:39.200 talking about was she the one with the dolls? No, that was Doris. 171 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:46.919 So you have this staging of you know, these folks that have not 172 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:54.759 even been gone that long, and you're you're basically selling the story to get 173 00:14:54.799 --> 00:15:01.039 these folks to come in and pay, you know, four hundred dollars, 174 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:11.360 nine hundred dollars, fifteen hundred dollars for overnight visits. And I think sometimes 175 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:28.480 that you have two types of folks that are into paranormal investigations and Type A, 176 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:33.360 like you said, are going to be excited that there's this new hunted 177 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:39.519 place to investigate. They rush to get in and find whatever spooky content that 178 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:46.000 they can get for their brand, not to vince words. Type B, 179 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.519 you know, it's going to step back, look at the evidence being presented, 180 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.679 do some actual research on the location, learn the history, and you 181 00:15:54.799 --> 00:16:03.120 know, substantiate or debunk what's being reported. I understand the appeal of being 182 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.879 the type A investigator. You know, you're on the chase. It's going 183 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.960 to be a fun time, like you said, But like I said, 184 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:18.200 what we forget is if these ghosts are here. They were people. The 185 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.200 voices that you may hear on your equipment were once there in that place. 186 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:30.440 Whether the alleged haunting is their wandering spirit or simply residual energy or in some 187 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:34.799 cases aggergre was caused by a group of people who have you know, built 188 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:41.360 up this intent to interact with them in a specific place, and that makes 189 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:51.080 it basically a haunting by association rather than a destination. No, that's I 190 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:52.320 mean, pretty pretty spot on it. That's something we tried to do with 191 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.279 Phantom Farms specifically, was and it's something I wish we had recorded more of 192 00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:00.799 it. I think Brittany even kind of touched on this. Tyler went through 193 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:06.960 every if there was a team that went to Randolph County, Tyler watched the 194 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.200 investigation he wanted he had all the information, all the details. In our 195 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.759 first what would you say, Britney hour or two, there was trying to 196 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.279 replicate everyone else's findings. Yeah, I would say so. But we did. 197 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:23.319 I mean, we did have a control. Our control was Austin and 198 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:26.519 I didn't really know all of the history and you didn't either, but we 199 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.480 knew some of the types of investigations that were done there. One thing I 200 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:37.240 did want to add though, on this conversation of historical places and selling, 201 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:41.720 you know, the paranormal haunt and the paranormal experience is I think one of 202 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:47.240 the main reasons why that I found that people do this where they invest into 203 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:52.079 these historical locations and they sell the paranormal, is that's the easiest way to 204 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:57.200 get the cash up to maintain this historical place. Yea Prospect Place being a 205 00:17:57.319 --> 00:18:03.319 huge one because the I can't remember her name, the lady that we've interacted 206 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.680 with a few times when we go there, she is absolutely in love with 207 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.799 the history of the place, doesn't really care for paranormal She's had a couple 208 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.960 of weird experiences, but she doesn't really care for it, but she will. 209 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.880 She basically tolerates it as long as the people who come in are respectful. 210 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:26.880 And two it helps pay for the restoration and preservation of these older buildings 211 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.319 well. And then Prospect has a unique rule that I really really wish other 212 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:37.359 locations would adopt, which is there is no recording to be done without prior 213 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:41.559 approval and they have to watch it first and at first, like, that's 214 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.960 kind of bullshit, because I'm paying for the location and then then I got 215 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.680 to think heah, And we spoke with the guy who like the head of 216 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:52.799 the foundation board. Yeah, and he said, he explained. He said, 217 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:57.279 what we had happened was people came in. It misrepresented the history, 218 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:04.079 major network television shows misrepresented the history to make it more spooky, and it 219 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.599 was such a disrespect to the location, to the things that happened in this 220 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:11.000 location, that we had to put a stop to it. And he said, 221 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.200 look, you send us your pitch. You send it to us, 222 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.240 We watch it first, we say yes, it's all good to go. 223 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:21.880 That's there only that, And I think that that's something that's sorely missing because 224 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.640 there's so many different investigators out there, and there's one and you're not kinda 225 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.240 spoke off airs. We're not going to say which one, but there was 226 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:33.599 a slightly viral clip going on where the first thing I said when I saw 227 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.160 it to Tyler was they just happened to have a camera pointed at that exact 228 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.640 hallway for no fucking reason. It's fake. I can tell you how it's 229 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.880 faked, because I could take it myself. There's no question about it. 230 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:48.599 And that to me taints the history because the investigator's panic. They say, 231 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.440 oh, this is so and so that was stabbed to death here by the 232 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.799 other two inmates. That's what happened. And you're like, well, how 233 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:00.920 did you get all that from something falling off the wall. That's a bit 234 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:07.279 of a jump, And now we're applying them malevolent spirit for zero reason realistically, 235 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.559 apart from the fact that it gets clicks and it's a very it's a 236 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.680 lucrative game with paranormal I can say that firsthand that you can make a lot 237 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.799 of money in this field if you are dishonest. And unfortunately there's not a 238 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.599 whole lot of people like yourself or I don't want to say, I don't 239 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:26.599 want to pount ourselves in the back, that we'll call out people for their 240 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:30.720 nonsense. And that's why I'm not a whole lot of fun at events, 241 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.640 because I don't like the first thing. If I see someone with an app, 242 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:37.079 I have to tell you that it doesn't work. I can't stop myself. 243 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.119 The inner asshole comes out and I gotta say, like, hey, 244 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.160 that is designed to give you what you're looking for now, Brandon, there 245 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:49.279 is an argument to be made that all paranormal devices are designed to give you, 246 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:56.400 but some are more rooted in science than others. As crazy as that 247 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.519 sounds, you know, we're trying to apply science to the afterlife, which 248 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.680 for millions of years has never worked. I don't know why we sudden they 249 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:04.440 think we figured it out in twenty twenty three, but there we are. 250 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:11.039 That's a different conversation altogether. Well, you know, one thing you got 251 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:17.079 to remember, and this is just me speaking as an old man. You 252 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:21.160 know, back in I guess it was two thousand and four when ghost Hunters 253 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:27.359 debuted. Before that, all we had was like unsolved mysteries, sightings, 254 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:33.640 and before that in search of I mean, there was there was nothing on 255 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:42.480 television about the paranormal. And I think ghost Hunters, if I was put 256 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:48.839 a you know, that was the first big success, and I think everything 257 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:53.039 spawned from that. And then when you got to a point where you could 258 00:21:53.119 --> 00:22:03.960 go to your YouTube's and your TikTok's and Joe Average can find an audience, 259 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:15.000 what you run into is now you've you've gone from Okay, are we going 260 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:23.680 to this place that the homeowners think it may be haunted? We're going to 261 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:30.400 investigate it too. We're going to go wherever we can to live stream so 262 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:37.440 we can have some content for our brand, and you have I hate that 263 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:40.119 you're right. I don't mean to jump in, but I hate that you're 264 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:48.200 right because there's another group nearby that every video this is the most haunted. 265 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:56.039 I got scratched parentheses, graphic parentheses, warning parenthesies, super duper haunted parentheses. 266 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:59.960 I pinky swear that this is a demon and in the in the description 267 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.079 only their Facebook, TikTok or YouTube. And I you're right, because you 268 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:08.319 have these folks who can the Internet's beautiful, beautiful thing, but it's also 269 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:12.799 a horrible thing. Also a horrible thing because for every like person that you 270 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:17.960 that you think shouldn't be driving a car because they cannot, you know, 271 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:19.640 they don't know, they're seeing red and green and they just they can't drive, 272 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:23.720 that same person can then go and start their own audience for paranormal content. 273 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:27.039 And that to me is it's it's a it's a good thing, but 274 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:33.279 it's also a horrible thing. There is a there's a downside, a dark 275 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.400 side. You into this, Like you were talking about the place that was 276 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:48.000 using the paranormal chores to you know, do repairs and such. I've talked 277 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:56.559 a lot through my different programs like Caretaker for example about red Ash, which 278 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:04.319 is in Campbell County, Tennessee. And it started literally in twenty ten where 279 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:12.000 this group of paranormal investigators went to the cemetery and they posted what you know, 280 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:21.119 what they found. And from the time of the last decade it evolved 281 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:30.200 to which graves, vampires, satanic cults, hellhounds, a goatman. And 282 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:40.599 they started doing tours of the cemetery so that you could see try to see 283 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:48.160 the goatman. And what it led to was people going up to this out 284 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:59.200 of the way cemetery spray painting trees, destroying stones, just the rampant vandalism 285 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:04.680 of this place and it really has no one to protect it. And that's 286 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:15.640 what my concern is when it comes to historic places, cemeteries, burial sites. 287 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:22.079 You have to resist the low hanging fruit of Oh I can just walk 288 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:27.799 around the cemetery and live stream and use my little app and it's going to 289 00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:33.359 the the grave is going to glow and speak to me. I mean that's 290 00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:41.519 because you're going to have you may have the scruples of you know, not 291 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:49.359 meaning harm, but the folks that watch that may come and not have the 292 00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:56.960 same scruples and want to just be there to destroy. And no, you're 293 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.960 absolutely right. And one thing I want to add in speaking of cemeteries is 294 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:07.039 I want to know who like your like Bob's, Tyler's and Austin's Mama was 295 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:12.079 because I can't even really walk on top of a grave without feeling like guilty. 296 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:15.680 Well, I don't walk on top of graves either. No, like 297 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:19.079 while even walking through oh like, I won't. I don't like walking through 298 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.359 graveyards in general. List it's a pay pathway and if I have to walk 299 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.119 over a grave, I walk above the headstone right right at the end. 300 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:29.960 Well, I do the same thing. But I also think graveyards are beautiful. 301 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:32.279 I think it's a beautiful resting place. I think it's a place of 302 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:37.960 serenity. I've never once viewed a single graveyard as like a malevolent place. 303 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:42.119 But I do want to talk about the kind of the bright side of para 304 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:47.839 television because because Brittany, you can speak on this as well. Post Hellier, 305 00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.240 we went down to the what is the get the town, the gas 306 00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:55.519 secause it's not Hellier, but the gas station I don't remember. Look look 307 00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:57.920 out, yeah, lookout yea, the Lookout gas Station. So everyone who 308 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:02.359 watch Tell Your season one knows that gas station. It's like, ran down 309 00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.039 mom and pop little gas station, and we fell in love with the people 310 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:10.279 down there. They were incredibly nice. We told the story million times over. 311 00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:14.359 But the most recent time we went down there, we got a shock 312 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:21.119 because the whole inside was redone in is like updated, all modern stuff, 313 00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:25.359 and it's really crazy. And the one thing I said was, you can 314 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:29.279 hate Hellier. You can hate with the new Kirks, what the goblins, 315 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.960 you can hate it all. But the one positive is that gas station is 316 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:36.839 really fucking nice now. And I think that it's because of all the attention 317 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.960 the talent in the business that the Hellier ran through it. So there is 318 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:44.960 a positive that has to be noted. But I also think that a lot 319 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.640 of times there's more bad than good, especially in this industry. Well, 320 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:56.000 that leads us to another discussion point, Bob, and that is the fact 321 00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:03.880 that in a post Hillier world, where you have folks who are traveling to 322 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:11.119 Somerset, for example, wanting to see things that they saw, and failure 323 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:22.759 there seems to be in these cities that have had attention previously and I'm going 324 00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:27.680 to add Hopkinsville, Kentucky in there. I recently visited there, and it's 325 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:37.200 almost like they're going out of their way to capitalize, to exclude the weirdness, 326 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:42.400 to sweep it under the rug. Nope, nothing weird going on here. 327 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.039 See I thought it would have been the opposite, but we haven't been 328 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:55.799 Hopkinsville in years. Lately. There's there's a really great group on Facebook called 329 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.880 Keep Hopkinsville Weird and I was just reading tonight where they were talking about, 330 00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:10.000 you know, why would we not have something like point pleasant abs with the 331 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:15.359 Mathmat Festival when you know, one weekend a year they bring in so many 332 00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:22.200 thousands of people. When I went to Hopkinsville, there was there was one 333 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:29.000 museum, the Piney Royal Museum, that that gave lip service to the goblins. 334 00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:33.319 They had fun with the whole thing, but like going to the welcome 335 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:41.559 center, there's one small section that mentions it, and they're really hitting home 336 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:48.599 the visit Hottown the batter capital of the world. They don't want anything to 337 00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.720 do with the goblins. Well, Loveland, Ohio is the exact same way. 338 00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:57.039 Yeah, you're right. We went to Loveland shortly after this was years 339 00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:00.759 ago that we covered the frog Win. I went deep into the Frogman. 340 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.680 I'm like, hey, we're like an hour five from Loveland, let's go. 341 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:11.960 You would They really pushed the downtown scene, the upscale restaurants that are 342 00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:15.519 downtown. I mean it's a pretty little downtown. Yeah, they really pushed 343 00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:19.400 that. But I didn't see a single thing about the Loveland Frogman and lady 344 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:23.440 Yeah, and creepy gas station lady, the weird church bells that was all 345 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:29.160 fucking creepy, but like there was nothing there about it. And then the 346 00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:33.000 indescribable Octoman of Cincinnati. Same deal. I've never First off, I don't 347 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:38.079 hear anyone ever talk about the Octoman except for us. But it's one of 348 00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:41.640 those things like, yeah, some towns heavily lean into it, and then 349 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:48.240 some don't. Like we were in Mount Shasta, there wasn't anything about the 350 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:51.119 lue Marian's and all the weird stuff. But they did talk about it, 351 00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:52.680 Yeah, but they were open to talking about it. But then you go 352 00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.880 to a place like Area fifty one, for example, the Little Alien. 353 00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:02.480 Then you have the giant welcome sent or that's like what twenty minutes outside of 354 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:07.680 Avery fifty one Giver take Yeah, we bought like alien Head Tequila's setting up 355 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.440 there. Yeah, and they had like a bunch of cool you could buy 356 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:12.160 books there, t shirts like you name it. You could buy it. 357 00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:17.599 And then well, that was out of necessity because it was a military operation 358 00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:22.279 that got undercovered, yeah or uncovered, excuse me. So I think if 359 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.880 they didn't set up shops somewhere out there, it would have been swept under 360 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.480 the rug. Yeah. But you also have the reverse problem of that is 361 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.519 there are those among us who think that Point Pleasant as a town was dying 362 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:38.240 because river trade didn't really exist in the sixties anymore. The coal industry was. 363 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:41.799 While it was booming, Point Pleasant really didn't benefit as much from the 364 00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:47.000 coal industry being on the Ohio River Valley coast. Some people say they made 365 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.319 the whole thing up so I could see a town. I don't agree with 366 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:55.079 it, but I could see them running with the We don't want to be 367 00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:59.240 called liars. And that's why we're not going to talk about the Hopkinsville incident 368 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:04.759 because you know what's it's one of my favorite negative apple reviews we have. 369 00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:07.799 As someone says, these are the types to believe in aliens, but not 370 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:13.839 that giants exist, and in the post is like, this group believes that 371 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.519 Rednecks fought aliens the middle of the night, but they don't believe that giants 372 00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:23.039 roam the earth one star and I kept it there and I love reading it 373 00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:27.319 because I'm like, you don't know the show. You listen to one episode 374 00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.880 and you drew an opinion. But there are those who will skip a town 375 00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:36.319 if they think that they're leaning into a gimmick. Point Pleasant really can't be 376 00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:37.759 one, because I mean, you've been to Point Pleasant. Some of our 377 00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:44.759 listeners haven't. It's a small town, so you can't not see Mothman's juicy 378 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:50.400 ass when you drive into Pleasant. But Hopkinsville another small town. I could 379 00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:54.440 see why they would lean away from the weird if they thought it would hurt 380 00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:59.559 their small town reputation, because that is something we do have to keep in 381 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.279 mind a lot of these uh, the big weirds happen in small towns. 382 00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:06.599 Love and being another small town, they would really lean away with it. 383 00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.160 And then I could we can forgive Cincinnati because you know we have we have 384 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:13.680 the stadium there, well, we have right next to the Bengal stadiums, 385 00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:16.240 the Reds where they play there's a lot of stuff happening in Cincinnati. I 386 00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:20.480 could see them leaning it, leaning away from it, but the rest of 387 00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.680 it not so much. Summer set in general has a weird fucking vibe, 388 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:29.839 you know. And I love that Kyle's Museums like stayed alive as long as 389 00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:32.279 it did. I know recently it's had some problem, that's the problem. 390 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.799 But I was shocked at stayed alive as long as it did, given what 391 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:45.640 we received as the mentality of the town of Somerset towards the other world, 392 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:52.960 otherworldly and the things that Penny Royal brought to light. Absolutely, there is 393 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:59.559 a lot of behind the scene things that if you follow the dots it makes 394 00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:04.680 a lot more since. But you know, just a couple of things with 395 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:10.559 Somerset. I for example, the k kind of pyramid that was featured in 396 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:15.920 Hilier it's gone. It like disappeared one night. And that was like sixty 397 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:22.599 tons of white marble. So that's not one of those things they can just 398 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:28.679 disappear, but it was. It was there one day, next day it 399 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:34.480 was gone. Some of the things that are listed, like Souls Chapel, 400 00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:39.280 you can't get to anymore. I know, the caves that were mentioned on 401 00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:45.039 Hillier. They've got them barricaded where you can't park there anymore. It's it's 402 00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:52.079 like they're taking the steps to to keep the tourists away from that kind of 403 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.840 stuff out. They know what's happening, and they don't want anyone else to 404 00:34:55.960 --> 00:35:00.599 know. And now we can feed the conspiracy even deeper down to look. 405 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:05.400 I have told the story time and time again. Tyler and I went to 406 00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:09.239 one of the caves that in Hellier where Tyler Stram went to. It's weird 407 00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.840 TI going to see that. I took a Tyler there as well. We 408 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:15.639 heard the rumbling, we heard the weirdness that they that they described in Hellier, 409 00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:21.559 and we thought we heard whispering. That's all I'm saying there is Matthew 410 00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:23.559 also summoned to bear there. Yeah, Matthew summoned to bear there that almost 411 00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:28.239 got us eating Which did we tell this story in the podcast? Matthew, 412 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.480 do you remember? I don't remember it. I don't think we were going 413 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:35.960 to get eaten by the bear. Okay, Bob was convinced. He was 414 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:39.119 yelling at Bob. Bob was like time to time to go, and then 415 00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:44.000 I wasn't leaving without Bob, and he's like, don't you me right now? 416 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:46.960 Okay, well, okay for the new listeners. A few years ago, 417 00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:50.719 Matthew had his son come to us home and he's like, hey, 418 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:54.519 if you guys have time to come down and hang out, that'd be great. 419 00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:57.599 And I was like, yeah, we'll meet you in Somerset. There's 420 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.559 a tornado comings we have to leave right now. I'm not even I'm not 421 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:04.360 even gonna let you finish that story, Bob. He's telling it wrong. 422 00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:14.800 Okay, Okay. I simply said I'm taking my kid back tomorrow. I 423 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:20.519 wish I could have done more. And Bob's like, we're on our way. 424 00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:22.960 Okay, Well, I didn't want to seem like we were trying to 425 00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:29.400 save the day here. Oh you were though you you were driving through like 426 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:34.599 you said a tornado I might and he's like, negative, ghost Rider, 427 00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:38.159 I'm on my way. Well we what's crazy is we gotta our neighbor texting. 428 00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:39.960 He's like, hey, the tornado warning. I hope you guys are 429 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:43.880 okay. I'm like, I'm on my way to Kentucky. Don't die. 430 00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:47.599 Uh No. So we get to this cave and and there's a lot to 431 00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:51.840 this story. We get to a cave, and because there was one that's 432 00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:57.400 like underneath a bridge and it's not super safe to walk into. Yeah, 433 00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.920 there's a lot of dangers with it. So we went to this other cave 434 00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:02.800 and I had this thought while we were driving. I think your son even 435 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:07.599 asked about like bears or something at some point, and I was like, 436 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:12.480 there's no fucking bears over here, Harlan. Yes, if we're in. 437 00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:15.599 If we're over there, I'm calling Tony. We're getting the Rhino Rifer. 438 00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.159 We're gonna get these bears out of here, no questions asked. And we 439 00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.440 go into this cave and I'm like, well, I'll take point because in 440 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.360 my mind, I'm I guess, you know, let's say a tenth of 441 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:30.199 these sumrset stories are true, and there are some crazy, you know, 442 00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:34.599 UFO types back here that are crazier than us, which is hard to imagine. 443 00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:37.480 I would like to be the one that gets attacked first, just you 444 00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:43.039 know, chances are higher. Whatever. And I come around the bend and 445 00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.960 I see this black mass and I remember my thought process of like, man, 446 00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:52.719 that's a big fucking dog, and then my brain, my common sense 447 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:55.960 got to my brain. I'm like I don't think dogs get that big. 448 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:00.280 And then I'm like, oh, that's a fucking bear. And so I'm 449 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:04.599 like trying to get you guys to go. Brittany takes our advice. She 450 00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:07.960 grabs your son and they're they're gone, and I look up and you're like 451 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:10.679 just like you're like casually walking with me, and like, Matthew fucking go 452 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:14.559 Like I'm fine, Like I'm not gonna leave. You're like fucking go, 453 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:19.239 Like I'm big enough that it'll be it'll be distracted for a while. And 454 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.079 I was I've never been that close to a full grown bear. Because we 455 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:27.639 saw a cub when we saw Kiss performing in Harlan, Kentucky. That's a 456 00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:30.760 weird conversation, or don't we back? We saw a cub and I've never 457 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:34.800 seen that big, like a giant bear in person. And then you know, 458 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.639 the whole drive back, I felt like your son just wanted like Dad, 459 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:42.519 I told you so, I told you in the cave. Well, 460 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:45.119 and when you go into the cave, I mean it was muddy, yeah 461 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:50.400 in that cave and there was like no tracks, no footprints, none of 462 00:38:50.719 --> 00:39:00.679 that mud. I think, I don't know, it's we saw big fucking 463 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:05.400 dogs that night. We saw nettle dogs that night. I mean, there 464 00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.440 was a lot of weirdness to happen and it and what's magical about it? 465 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:14.760 And I'm going to tell the listeners this. They drove all that way, 466 00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:20.599 they were only there for like three hours, and we found this dog on 467 00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:22.679 the side of the road and they took it home with them. We did. 468 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:27.960 I mean, that was that and that's and that's what. That's the 469 00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:31.119 kind of people My kids are so well. I have a soft spot for 470 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:34.519 animals. I always have. Like Brittany's got a dog with it. I'm 471 00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:38.800 I'm pretty sure it's got some problems. It's got an underbite that would rival 472 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:44.440 any old dinosaur. And then my cat's got a pair of brain cells and 473 00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:46.880 he rubs together on a good day. You know. I have a soft 474 00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:51.159 spot for animals, And for some reason, I find more wild dogs than 475 00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:52.360 anyone I've ever met my entire life. Oh my god. When we lived 476 00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:54.760 at the farmhouse, I mean we've talked about on the podcast before, but 477 00:39:54.880 --> 00:40:00.960 we literally had to keep a third crate. Yeah, because you can't bringing 478 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:05.400 home dogs. There were wild dogs everywhere. Yeah, I can't not bring 479 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.119 animals home. I have a soft spot for me, I don't like people 480 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.400 very much, but I fucking love animals. And I don't know if it's 481 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:15.119 just I grew up raising hounds or whatever, but I've always had a soft 482 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:19.239 spot for for dogs and animals and whatnot. And then for in that case, 483 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:21.679 I wasn't going to miss a chance to meet your son like that was 484 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.039 a huge The fact that you would even think to include us in that was 485 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:30.559 was awesome. This is very special. See it's it's just a it's just 486 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:32.519 a love fest. I like it, all right, But so anyway, 487 00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:42.039 fuck them kids, No, sheez, just kidding, Matthew. It almost 488 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:47.760 got to be a nice podcast out the window, didn't you. Bread No, 489 00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.079 we gotta don't worry. I don't worry about it, Matthew. So 490 00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:58.440 he's circling back. Let's let's talk about Octagon Hall. Just just to to 491 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:04.760 bookmark this, I wanted to bring up. You guys are probably familiar with 492 00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:14.679 it. In nineteen seventy two, there was this experiment carried out by the 493 00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:22.639 Toronto Society for Physical Research and was conducted by doctor A. Rg Owen of 494 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:30.320 the University of Toronto. In this thought exercise, a fictional character was given 495 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:36.960 an extensive backstory with a tragic end, and the test, as it was, 496 00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:46.960 was to manifest this entity under intent and then and then they would then 497 00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:52.639 perform a seance to speak with the spirit. Each week they would reinforce the 498 00:41:52.760 --> 00:42:01.559 process until Philip became somewhat of a sensation. Now this was actually duplicated to 499 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:08.079 varying success, the most prominent being the Skippy Experiment in Australia. With six 500 00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:14.400 participants, the group created the ghost of a fourteen year old girl named Skippy 501 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:20.440 Carmichael and according to the group, Skippy communicated mainly through raps and scratching sounds. 502 00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:30.800 If we are able as a people through intent to create these tulpas, 503 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:44.360 these eggergres, what are we taking into these places? I come from more 504 00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:52.519 of a spiritual side of ghosts and such as in spirits, in nature spirits, 505 00:42:52.679 --> 00:43:00.199 you know, human spirits, so have you. But for those those 506 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:07.000 who are not spiritually or magically inclined, that are just going to these places 507 00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:16.360 and just going in there with this intent to investigate with what are they bringing 508 00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:22.039 into these places? What I was going to say about Octagon Hall was in 509 00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:29.159 two thousand and one it was made into a museum. The the gentleman who 510 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:34.800 started the museum, no relation that I know of. Maybe a cousin was 511 00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:43.039 David Bird, and he had a vast collection of Civil War memorabilia. I 512 00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:47.639 mean, the Ocgon Hall is full of it, of the stuff that he 513 00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:55.199 brought into the place. You know what was attached to those items From what 514 00:43:55.360 --> 00:44:02.519 I gathered from the gentleman that does the tours, there was never any mention 515 00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:07.960 of paranormal activity until the last renters, which would have brought it into like 516 00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:14.880 the nineteen nineties, and now it's become you know, one of the most 517 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:22.079 haunted places in the South. Is that a product of a dormant place where 518 00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:29.000 bad things happen? Maybe? Is it something where you bring all this stuff 519 00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:34.360 in from various sources, then you reinforce it with people who are coming in 520 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:42.119 with the intent to speak to these specific spirits that have been manifested through intent 521 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:47.360 and narration. Who knows well, if I had to lean towards one, 522 00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:52.199 I'd lean towards the second one because I had some mistvalidity for me, at 523 00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.599 least as of right now. If we're going to talk belief, that would 524 00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:00.239 be the belief how would go with just because not only the intent that the 525 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:04.599 people are bringing into but the attachments that could be to the Civil War memorabilia 526 00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:07.119 that's being brought into the place. It may not have even been haunted before. 527 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:12.039 It might be these objects that left an imprint in the house itself. 528 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.320 Well. And you also have to think about about people in general, because 529 00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:21.320 we all know and for those this actually can help explain a lot of things 530 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.119 to our non paranormal believers out there. Everyone knows someone that when they walk 531 00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:30.920 in the room, it suck the life. Yeah, and for my what 532 00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:35.000 we do in the shadows fans out there, the energy vampire, that's a 533 00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:37.719 real thing. For people, there are people that when they walk in even 534 00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:39.039 strangers, we've all seen them where you just look at them and you're like, 535 00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:44.360 man, something's not right, or this just it's like all the wind 536 00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:46.480 came out of this place, or this person may be uncomfortable by their presence. 537 00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:51.519 What does that say if you go into a location then you're looking for 538 00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:55.800 something supernatural? Does that potentially tap into some latent psychic abilities that some people 539 00:45:55.920 --> 00:46:01.320 may have unknowingly? And there was entire we talked about this in the Alan 540 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:08.280 Greenfield interview. There's entire government experiments and government funded projects for exactly that, 541 00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:15.800 diving into these like latent abilities. Yeah, and also the synchronicity is real 542 00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:19.760 about the tupas. We just did an almost two hour Patreon episode, but 543 00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:22.920 don't talk to me about topas diving into topas. And one of the stories, 544 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:28.800 the last one we ended on was was a Tolpa gaining sentience and killing 545 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:32.639 it's six other Tupa siblings and then and then taking over the host of the 546 00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:37.239 host body, and and there's a bunch of weird stuff with Tulpa's in general. 547 00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:42.480 But that's a whole different conversation. But before we we go, Matthew, 548 00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.880 I want to talk our other favorite topic. I want to talk aliens 549 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:50.960 for a second, because first off, I want to know and and if 550 00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.840 you're willing to discuss it, what are your view you points and aliens and 551 00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:57.280 gin? Were they are they coming from here? The interdimensional? Are they 552 00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:00.280 coming from outer space? Are they on Mars? All of the Bob, 553 00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:12.119 where do you fall in the UFO debacle? I take a very open minded 554 00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:19.840 view of beats the hell to me, Bob. It's it's one of those 555 00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:30.119 things of could it be us from the future, could it be interdimensional? 556 00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:38.559 Could it be maybe who knows, not. I it's it's really I think 557 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:45.320 it's better to have an open mind of what it could be than to have 558 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:52.880 a definite belief into what it is. I think it's ever changing. I 559 00:47:52.079 --> 00:48:00.719 think perception, I mean, what we even knew of UFOs over the last 560 00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:12.920 one hundred years has been influenced by you know, popular media and literature, 561 00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:20.880 and what the UFOs supposedly looks like, you know, one hundred years ago, 562 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:28.960 it's not what they look like now. Yeah. So I mean I 563 00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:34.079 think that. And I don't have the article in front of me, I 564 00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:38.199 know, I send it to you. It was like a summary of Jeremy 565 00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:45.039 Corbellan and nap On Rogan. But we're talking about like the aliens. Bob 566 00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:53.440 Blizar was talking about the aliens referring to us as soul containers, and I'm 567 00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:58.599 like, yeah, I can, I can jibe with that. Sure. 568 00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:05.000 I love that answer, because with such an open ended topic, you have 569 00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:08.000 to you have to have an open ended belief when it comes to this kind 570 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:12.840 of stuff. Yeah, beliefs at all. Uncle Allan says that too, 571 00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:21.559 that you know, it's everything's connected, And I don't think that you can 572 00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:28.320 look at you can be just a UFO guy anymore, or a ghost guy 573 00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:34.400 anymore, or a big foot guy anymore. If you're going to look into 574 00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:40.159 the phenomenon, you have to look at everything. And the more that everybody 575 00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:45.280 is looking at the big picture, I think we're going to make more connections. 576 00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:50.920 No, I would agree with that completely, and I because we've come 577 00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:54.360 to that realization that you really can't have one without the other. And there 578 00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:58.840 was a point in the and this wasn't recorded, but during Phantom Farm, 579 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:01.119 during one of the that I we recorded, we got to the point where 580 00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:07.559 we abandoned paranormal completely in an allegedly haunted location, and we find ourselves discussing 581 00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:12.679 the dowel and discussing you follow Geen, injured, cold and all these things 582 00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:15.239 like that doesn't just come out of nowhere. There's a reason that that you're 583 00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:21.079 you're drawn to various forms of high strangeness no matter which field you're in. 584 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:25.599 And I do agree. I think it's detrimental as a researcher to not see 585 00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:30.000 the overlap. And now, granted I could see if you if you are 586 00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:35.800 an old school ghost hunter and you weren't part of the fringe, circles discussing 587 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.320 the occult connection with high strangeness. I could see how you could overlook it. 588 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.360 But I want to talk to you about the the the Congressional hearing, 589 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.480 because we talked a little bit off air. We all agree that Commander Faver, 590 00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:51.920 he's telling the truth. That dude's the real deal. I don't see 591 00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:55.360 a single hole in his story that doesn't make sense, especially considering he went 592 00:50:55.480 --> 00:51:01.760 on a debunking like tour of working with flour looking while working with the thermal 593 00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:08.159 engineering design of the camera that caught the tic TAC and he cannot disprove this, 594 00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:10.960 and no one, no one really can. But then we had the 595 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:15.960 Congressional Hearing, which was kind of out of nowhere. And I say that 596 00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:22.400 because we had I think two UAP reports come out. Both were smoking mirrors 597 00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:25.719 and nonsense. For every half a sentence that had something that could be interesting, 598 00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:30.559 the rest was either redacted or just was clearly put in there to make 599 00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:35.719 you look elsewhere. But then the Congressional Hearing comes along. I never in 600 00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:40.239 my lifetime thought I would see something that mainstream when it came to the UFO 601 00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:45.679 UAP topic whatever term we're using this week. And I still now our patrons 602 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:50.719 know this because we dove deep into the News Nation and interview with with Grush. 603 00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:54.880 I'm still struggling a lot with what Grush is saying. And that could 604 00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:58.800 solely be because every time he was asked a question, it was always I 605 00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:00.559 will tell you in the right set or setting, if you have the right 606 00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:07.000 clearance. I understand the concern because and it's it's kind of hard to you 607 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:08.400 because you can say it's the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to 608 00:52:09.159 --> 00:52:15.119 we openly believe Bob Lazar. We think he was telling the truth, but 609 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:19.000 he has no real proof. Grush is kind of the same deal. But 610 00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:27.480 Grush's attitude and just his attitude throughout the entire News interview and from what I 611 00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:32.840 saw of him in the conference, very nonchalant for a very serious and life 612 00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:39.480 changing topic like you could see with Commander Favor and everything including the congressional hearing 613 00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:45.840 and everything he does and talks about. It's a very serious topic, and 614 00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:50.599 for me, Rush was not taking it seriously at all. Yeah, and 615 00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.840 I could I could say that you could say that he's being serious by like 616 00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:57.320 watching what he's saying. I understand that that thought process, but there is 617 00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:00.480 still just something about the guy that doesn't sit right with me. So I 618 00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:07.280 wanted your opinion both on the hearing and Grush specifically. I'm actually going to 619 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:15.360 pivot and Grush can when they give him the clearance to say whatever he needs 620 00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:17.599 to say. The problem is, and this is where I was going to 621 00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:27.840 pivot. Watch timber Chet. He's he's a state representative of Tennessee, and 622 00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:35.400 that's that's who I watch in all this because as a fellow Tennessee boy, 623 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.360 I mean, he he doesn't have a lot of room for nonsense. And 624 00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:46.760 he's been trying to get you know, them to allow the clearance like they 625 00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:51.760 were supposed to be able to see this stuff, and they were like, 626 00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:55.079 no, you can't do that. Now we've changed our mind. And when 627 00:53:55.079 --> 00:54:00.760 you're telling Congress people this, that's that's where I think the important part of 628 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:10.239 this. Let's take this closure completely off the table because you're going to get 629 00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:21.039 that from Foyer, requests from you know, the Black Vault, from outside 630 00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:30.199 sources, from the government. That's that's what we've depended on for however long 631 00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:37.920 the Department of Defense was talking about they were going to release this new site. 632 00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:43.199 It should be ready by the fall, or they're going to release everything 633 00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:46.719 that's been declassified. Okay, well maybe there's something in there, so maybe 634 00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:52.480 there won't be. What's important about these hearings, it's not even is their 635 00:54:52.639 --> 00:55:00.960 UFOs, it's there's something there. It is a threat to national security. 636 00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:10.440 And as a side effect of that, you had in these hearings them admitting 637 00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:22.159 that corporations were overcharging the American taxpayer so that they on these products, so 638 00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:28.360 that they could then take that for money, black budget projects, for black 639 00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:36.760 budget projects. That is that is what is important. As my grandfather used 640 00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:39.800 to say, follow the money, follow the money always, and if you 641 00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:50.239 can start talking about where money's going, then that's going to put pressure to 642 00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:55.360 maybe get some of this other stuff done. But if nothing else, that 643 00:55:55.559 --> 00:56:00.679 was the big takeaway I got is that, oh my god, just admitted 644 00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:10.440 that we're getting goosed on our bill of good Yeah. It is the other 645 00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:15.000 thing that I found very interesting about that hearing, And this is one thing 646 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:17.400 that you can say about any any of our current political climate. There's a 647 00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:23.119 level of ego attached to most politicians. And to watch the frustration when they 648 00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:29.599 said when people said you don't have the clearance and some of these politicians responses 649 00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:32.239 where I should be running this fucking project. What do you mean I can't 650 00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:37.679 know about this? I'm I'm the guy who should know. I think if 651 00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:42.199 we're going to get disclosure in any any meaningful way when it comes to strictly 652 00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:45.159 craft, crafts and personnel, it's gonna be through these politicians. I have 653 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.639 the ego. Yeah, it's oh, you don't think I should know what? 654 00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:52.360 Watch this? Watch me show you what I'm allowed to know. I 655 00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:58.119 think what happened. You know, even Jimmy Carter back in the seventies had 656 00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:04.280 made inquiries into the UFO phenomenon and stuff, and he was flat out shut 657 00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:09.079 out. They wouldn't tell him anything. He was the president. Yeah, 658 00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:14.159 and there's so many stories out there like that. So my last question before 659 00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:16.440 we go, and I'm trying to ask this of every guest every walk of 660 00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:22.440 life to get their opinion. Do you believe the Satanic Panic is back, 661 00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:25.400 We're having a resurgence, it never went away, or it's more of a 662 00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:31.119 social media hoop law as a distraction. And I asked this to you specifically 663 00:57:31.159 --> 00:57:36.559 because you were you were growing up during the original Satanic Panic. I remember 664 00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:39.760 it briefly growing up in smalltown, Ohio late nineties, early two thousands, 665 00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:44.719 I saw the remnants of it. But with you being from Tennessee, the 666 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:46.920 west Men fifth three is huge, Damien Echols, that whole I was going 667 00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:53.519 to stay with westminsfis three. That was I was those kids. I mean, 668 00:57:53.920 --> 00:58:00.519 black T shirt reading Stephen King long hair, I mean it, I 669 00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:07.320 was those kids. And that's what was so frightening to me when that happened. 670 00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:15.760 Here's the thing. Earlier in the hour, I touched on red Ash, 671 00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:22.199 which is again in Kevil County. I was trying to find information on 672 00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:30.239 exactly who was maintaining the cemetery, get some information on who was allowing these 673 00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:37.800 groups to do tours there. I called the county government. And the first 674 00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:42.480 things out of the or the first thing the lady says to me in the 675 00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:52.000 office is, you know they do Satanic rituals there, right, And what 676 00:58:52.199 --> 00:59:02.519 you have to understand is the culture of Tennessee, Kentucky and the Bible Belt 677 00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:12.679 in general, is that they do believe in demons. They do believe that, 678 00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:19.239 you know, and it even goes back to I can remember I don't 679 00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:28.320 remember the year, it was probably early nineties, my small Baptist church was 680 00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:36.760 all in an upper war because there were the Saint worshippers coming to the Big 681 00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:42.079 South Fork and they were looking for the blonde haired, blue eyed children to 682 00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:47.239 sacrifice that you needed to watch your kids, and it turned out to be 683 00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:53.079 the Rainbow Children. And it was like just this tippy group that came through 684 00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:59.800 to do one of their festivals. And the worst thing that happened is a 685 01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:07.519 daughter of a country singer got picked up at the Pigli Wiggly for stealing bologney. 686 01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:15.800 That's and as you said before about you know, it's it's demons ghost 687 01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:28.840 when you have people who will perpetrate this idea of demons demonology. Being a 688 01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:44.039 demonologist that you know you're going to enforce this idea of things that are heavy 689 01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:50.800 metal is bad. The wigi boards are the devil's keyboard. And this is 690 01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:54.119 that's something that my oldest son said. He saw my wigi board one day 691 01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:59.559 and he was like, he says, you're you're laughing now, but when 692 01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.840 you are tickling the devil's keyboard, we'll see who has the last laugh. 693 01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:06.920 That's I mean, I'm in your son, I'm I'm in the same boat 694 01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:13.360 as your son. I'm telling you, yeah, and you know not to 695 01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:16.159 get off on the buigie boards. But we we've talked about this before, 696 01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:24.000 Bob. You know, Norman Rockwell did a cover for the Saturday Evening Post 697 01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:30.599 with a couple using a wuigie board. It was a parlor game, yere 698 01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:36.639 boards and that was yeah, up until the Exorcist. Again. You know, 699 01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:45.880 satanic panic, it will never really go away as long as and this 700 01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:57.039 is something that Anton LaVey was talking about in his Church of Satan that you 701 01:01:57.159 --> 01:02:04.559 know, the devil is the best friend the church ever had because it's what 702 01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:12.480 keeps them in business. Ye. And when you have the folks that are 703 01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:19.840 being told every Sunday by the hell Fire and Brimstone preachers that this is this 704 01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:23.599 is satanic, this is satanic, this is the Devil's work, I can 705 01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:31.519 tell you I graduated in ninety one and they're in my autoshop class. I 706 01:02:31.719 --> 01:02:40.119 was talking to my teacher, who was a Baptist preacher outside of school, 707 01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:44.920 and he looked me up one up and down one day and he says, 708 01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:50.559 are you one of those Devil's disciples? And I looked right back at him. 709 01:02:50.599 --> 01:02:57.280 I said, you're not allowed to ask me that, and that's to 710 01:02:57.400 --> 01:03:01.519 be honest, That's one of the reasons that I left Tennessee for a long 711 01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:09.760 time because I didn't feel like someone like me belong there. And I'll tell 712 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:15.360 you to your answer about the Satanic panic, I think things are better. 713 01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:28.159 I think things are more open. I think that you can have esoteric shops 714 01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:38.239 in little towns in Tennessee now, and I think there's a lot more of 715 01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:46.559 an open mind. But and this is something that I can't stress enough is 716 01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:52.119 talking from the great state of Tennessee, you have the greg Lock of the 717 01:03:52.239 --> 01:04:02.840 world who want to burn the witches. And if those spokes on those extreme 718 01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:12.199 right views are allowed to have a voice, then that's a very dangerous thing. 719 01:04:14.039 --> 01:04:16.360 I completely agree, Matthew. So with that being said, we are 720 01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:19.880 at the end of our our time here. But before you go, where 721 01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:24.719 can people find more Matthew Bird, Because we you're in the Facebook group Tales 722 01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:28.159 from the Dark group all the time, But more content you've done. Do 723 01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:30.320 you have an archive maybe or a list of the shows you've been on or 724 01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:34.360 where that's that's kind of that's kind of where we're at at this point. 725 01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:42.719 I'm gonna tell you Bob. The last year, I've I've kind of gotten 726 01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:48.679 away from the social media portion of it and just you know, visited places 727 01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:57.320 and soaked up the history of places and just not done a lot of with 728 01:04:57.440 --> 01:05:04.199 it. But I do have an archi I've there's the on Facebook. You 729 01:05:04.280 --> 01:05:11.360 can find it in the groups as House of Weird w y r D. 730 01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:19.960 Also you have House of Weird dot WordPress dot com. Also we do the 731 01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:28.000 Caretaker Respect for the Dead Project, where we believe that only by cooperation and 732 01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:32.440 changing the current culture of ghost hunting and internet paranormal groups can we debunk the 733 01:05:32.679 --> 01:05:40.320 urban legends and other incorrect information attributed to these areas that are negatively affecting our 734 01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:45.800 burial places in the Appalachian Mountains, including cemeteries, graveyards, mounds, and 735 01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:50.119 other sacred locations. And you can find out more about that on Facebook dot 736 01:05:50.199 --> 01:05:59.800 com, slash Caretaker Project or Caretaker Project dot WordPress dot com. Well, 737 01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:02.960 that's amazing and I love everything you're involved in, Matthew. You're always welcome 738 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:05.880 on the show, and I definitely appreciate you taking the time. I know 739 01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:10.000 it's past all of our bedtimes, and I'm just glad to have you here 740 01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:13.400 on the show one more time. Absolutely, I love you guys, We 741 01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:16.599 love you Matthew. We love you too. Thank you all right, Miss 742 01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:19.079 Brittany. So that was Matthew Bird. It's always a pleasure to sit down 743 01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:24.199 with someone that's equally as passionate and the paranormal. And eventually we're gonna get 744 01:06:24.280 --> 01:06:28.039 him to have his own podcast. We've been trying for years now. Yeah. 745 01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:30.079 So with that being said, the only thing I want to add really 746 01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:32.119 fast is we're gonna have some really exciting announcements. Is we're coming closer to 747 01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:38.000 the Hans and Legends Expo with Halloween coming up, some new potential merch designs, 748 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:40.039 a bunch of you know, exciting and fun stuff. And then Miss 749 01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:44.280 Brittany over the next two to three weeks is gonna have another very exciting announcement 750 01:06:44.519 --> 01:06:47.000 and OG fans probably know what it is, but I'm gonna We're gonna wait 751 01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:50.599 for that, and you actual said stay tuned. So with that being said, 752 01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:53.639 unless there's anything else that you'd like to add, I do not, 753 01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:57.800 And I think we're gonna have to add this episode to our never ending but 754 01:06:57.920 --> 01:07:00.920 are always growing Heels from the Dark