Adventist Radio London inspiration for the song. Good evening and welcome to Talking Point.
I certainly hope you had a wonderful sabbath. The sunshine has been glorious.
I hope there has been sunshine where you are, whatever the weather,
I hope you've been basking in the sunshine of God's love. I'm in the
hot seat today. I am joined as usual I should say, my usual
co host or my partners in crime, Partners in Christ, Partners in Christ.
I've got Angela who's joining us from Balum actually on zoom, and Pedro
who may or may not be here. I think he possibly disappeared for a
minute, but he'll certainly be back, I'm sure, as well as a
number of guests. It's a full packed house this afternoon, and we'll have
them introduced themselves in a little bit. As usual, we start our discussion
with um talking about our weeks, and then we'll move into the conversation.
It's the Siblings Part two. We had a part one a few weeks ago
in celebration of Brothers and Sisters Day, and we got so full into the
conversation that, as usual, we thought a part two was warranted just to
kind of settle the discussion. And I think we don't usually get to the
party. We always say we will have a part two, but it never
really manifests. But it has. And some of the persons who were on
last time I hear again Rouelle pet Ruell and Andrea saying good afternoon to you,
and some of persons who were are not here at this time, but
we'll have a discussion anyway, recap a little before we move forward. I
think as well, it is going to be the Brothers and Sisters or National
Siblings Day. Sorry it's National Siblings Day. Last time. It's Brothers and
Sisters Day on the thirty first of May. Sorry for that, And that's
why I think the timing is right to have that siblings too. As we
discussed just a little bit of housekeeping. This live programming today started with at
the Request show, followed by tell me a Story that was from I think
that comes from two thirty till four, and just before us was you See
Why, which is formally Bricks Kids. That's normally from four to five,
talking point from five to seven, and this evening possibly potentially we'll have a
music show with myself Saturday night pray is from seven to nine pm. Right,
with that out of the way and with Pedro back family in his seat,
Pedro, how was your week, guys, Angie Pedro? Oh,
actually, my week started off fantastically. I remember actually when it actually was.
I basically he was celebrating my birthday at a bit of a birthday celebration
Sunday and Monday, now my birthday. At the time, I was so
busy, and I remember being on the show and actually completely forgetting it would
be my birthday that week. However, because I was so busy and had
loads of things on, do we have time to celebrate? I'm like,
I'm going to celebrate for the whole year, But myself was actually over at
the moment of America and her and some other friends kind of schemed behind my
back and she used me to hotel and Spa a couple of days. So
yeah, so we spent a lot of time a QZ steam room. They
had a full body mussage in the dream. That's a really lovely foodence.
It's really nice Nepoalese restaurant. So yeah, it was a lovely way to
start the week. So yeah, that was really good. And then I
guess the most of the week, you know, just back at work as
usual, not too too stressful, although I found I was actually quite productive
this work this week and got quite a lot done, so that was good.
Um. So yeah, being quite happy to see the weather being sunny
as it is. I'm determined to think that spring is here. Um,
spring has sprung, Spring should be summer. Yeah, spring was a bit
hit and mist to be fair, but yes, we are moving into summer.
I'd like to see that. Yeah, it's so, it's been a
bull and all. Pretty good week, I'd say, pretty positive week.
I know sometimes we always say that, but actually I can stay this week.
Actually had a good week. So a happy birthday again. When was
your birthday? I was like, yeah, it was much but hey yeah
Patrick, the birthday celebration. Yeah yeah, I know you can't top that,
but try Petra. You there, Oh yeah, I'm here, I'm
sorry. Yeah, how is your difficulties? Trying to get myself sorted?
Worried? How was your week? Petra? How was your week? Oh?
I thought that's what it was. My week was good? Um again,
it was busy when really fast, Um looked up it was Friday already.
Um, not really much going on besides work and the kids and the
wife. Deal for a little bit of um swing this in the throat and
stuff seems to be going around. Hopefully it doesn't get to me. Um
started with my son, that my daughter, then my wife. So I'm
hoping it doesn't, you know, come to me. But otherwise for that,
UM, pretty healthy, Pretty well. Enjoy the sunshine somewhat. As
I said before, I really don't like the sun. So you know,
just you know, trying to maintain and yeah, you need to you need
to expand on that. People here where you're saying you don't like the sun
might think what's wrong. And like I said last time, I grew doesn't
like the sun. You know, grew up in New York where is really
hot. Yeah, and um, but it's a different kind of hot.
It's hot to me. It's just hum, isn't it can't have the heat.
So like I said before, like it's you know, you're going to
a business and it's just like boiling go on a bus is boiling go in
your car. It's hot and then the AC takes forever to kick in.
It just it's just to me, it's just a different kind of heat.
Not that I don't like it, not that I don't like being in the
sun. It's just I just don't like when it gets really hot here because
it just doesn't seem the UK is not equipped to handle heat. Yeah,
I should say I think that maybe a different, different conversation, different show.
But I'm not sure what weather the UK can handle to be fair.
But um, we move forward quickly, swiftly better, swiftly we're moving forward.
But yeah, it's it's it's something. Um, and I'm not sure
if we're ready for forty degrees again, have mercy, But um, I
do enjoy the sunshine and a little bit of heat. It is good for
me. Today's weather was perfect. I call it sailing weather. There was
a nice breeze um to keep the temperature down and it was just perfect.
It was just perfect. So thank you Lord. Um I put a note
down this is this is where it could possibly stay for me. Um.
But yeah, yeah, my week's been better. UM. I think a
few weeks ago we spoke about it. How our listeners say, oh,
oh, you know, you guys have amazing weeks. Um, what's going
on? You know you're not living the real life in the real world.
Um. And I think for me, when my my my week is bad,
I generally don't show up for talking point. Um. So you know,
last week I was under the weather. I got a cold of flu
and as Petrol said, it is going around and I just kind of sat
that one out and Angie so abably ably took over and ran the shows.
But I was listening and it was excellent And I'm back, glad to be
back. Still coughing a little bit, but yeah, Covidavid seems to be
doing a bit of the round. Yeah again, so definitely as the summer
colds and flus king. Yeah, yeah. And I think we still all
need to be vigilant, you know. Um, it's not it's not off
the scene. It's not it's not gone completely. We still do absolutely need
to be vigilant. And I think I read somewhere about some new strain in
China. Whether that's true or not or whatever, Um, we just need
to keep our ears and eyes um to the ground. To be fair,
I don't think it's really even that it's COVID. I think it's just natural
whenever it goes from cold to heat, like what I love. The only
thing I learned about the UK or anywhere. Actually when it's cold, then
when it gets hot, everybody loses their mind and goes out of my shirt
and shorts. And then it gets cold at night because like even up here,
which is where like it was hot during the day and then it just
dropped. Yeah, and you're still out in the shorts and a T shirt.
Now you get sick because now it's cold your body, you know.
So I think it's not just covid. But I think it's just natural flu
cold season, yes, where people are just getting sick because they're not dressing
properly for the weather. Yeah, that is true. That is true.
Um. I think I tested negatively, but my boss, um, we
had very similar symptoms where he was positive. So yeah, I think it's
a mixture of both. I think they call it what fluid it's um it's
just a mixture of that going around. Um. So we just have to
be vigilant and keep our keep ourselves and our immune systems boosted. So yeah,
that's that's the message for for this week. UM. I also kind
of wanted to to give a little bit of a recap on on what we
discussed on our Siblings Siblings program A few weeks ago and to say that,
um, we kind of drew a conclusion that that siblings were worth having.
Um, it's definitely good to have someone to share your burdens with and your
your joys with. But I want to toss it out to our two specialists
in the house. First, I let them introduce themselves. But the question
I want you to mull over, and we'll start with a specialist, but
we'll all have maybe a chance to pitch in, is whether it is or
it isn't useful to have siblings for our parents or parents to be who are
contemplating do we have one, do we have more? Is one easier?
Two or three more stressful, more confusion, more problems? Or is it
too difficult to answer that question because it's not as black and white, it's
not as clear cut. Or maybe we'll come to a conclusion at the end,
but we certainly want to maybe put because we couldn't the last time.
We want to definitely put an answer to that if we could. Is it
best to have siblings or is it best to go it alone. Let's just
pray before we get into the discussion, and then we'll we'll go into the
meat of it definitely, Father, Thank you for bringing us together this afternoon.
Thank you for bringing the members of the panel, and also for our
listeners. I pray that this discussion would be a blessing to us all in
Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Right, So, Angie and those of
us who were part of the conversation last time, what were your takeaways?
What was the conclusion that you drew from the conversation that we had if you
can draw your mind back that far, and a lot has happened since,
um, but what was the conclusion that you came to at the end of
our conversation last timent? And perhaps Angie, I can start with you.
Yeah, I mean I was gonna say, going back to your first question,
Um, you know, is it worth as having siblings? I think
for me, um, And I think my takeaway from what I can see
that people's lives are enriched by the siblings. You know. Um, Now,
I guess that could depend on how many and the makeup and what have
you, But it sounds like most most of us have had a fairly positive
relationship with our siblings, despite any challenges and what have you. Definitely better
being better than maybe being I got to not being an only child, I
was for a few years before my sister came. But actually I think whilst
the relationship may have changed over the years, all in all, you know,
I think it's it's been a real positive and a benefit. And you
know, you have you almost have you know, you'd have instant best friends,
you'd have people to kind of share things with, maybe somebody challenge you,
but that there's a lot of growth and learning from that. And I
think have I said all of that, with all of those positives, there
does sometimes come the challenges with all of that because you are instantly working at
dynamics and how that plays out with the best of the family, with your
parents. So it can equally be a real blessing. I'm not going to
say it's going to be a curse, but it can be tricky and it
can be difficult, and I think there are lots of things that complain to
that. I think parents role parents' roles are really important, but I think
when you have siblings, even more so you have more than one child,
even more so because you you know, what you do and how you are
with each of your children can really shape their developmental think going the journey going
forward. But all in all, I think, yeah, it's a really
positive thing, and I think it's and I guess, you know, depending
on everyone's going to be so unique and different, so you know, there's
certainly no m cookie cutter fit for every family dynamicing group and what have you.
And I think as over the time I've been sort of speaking to my
friends who, you know, they've got lots of siblings or have no siblings,
and just sort of seeing their experiences and how different and varied they can
be. I can alway sort of see that as really positive and it's a
really enriching experience. M But and there's so many theories possibly around it as
well, and I'm sure our practitioners can shed some light on some of that,
I'm sure as well. But yeah, I think it was you know,
it was a really fascinating conversation that we had, UM and we've had
sort of you know, different sets and different types of siblings software and each
of those came with their uniqueness and differences, but equally lots of things that
we could all relate to, a lot of similarities, a lot of things
they had in coming didn't know they had in coming. But yeah, yeah,
I think genes and genetics obviously plays yeah, sort seeing if some of
the theories, like you know, does your position in the family, you
know, in the sibling lineup, does it make a difference, Like I'm
an old I'm the eldest, so you know, can I relate to somebody
else who's the eldest? A lot of the times I can, and it's
maybe something very different who's in the who's a middle child or the youngest child.
It's quite interesting to see those kind of similarities more completely difference. You
have a set of twins on as well, and I think that's a really
unique bonding dynamic as well. So you know whether, yeah, whether you
are similar or you're very very different. Fascinating, but you know, that's
the beauty God has created as we are, God's great inspiration and I think
you know with that comes in uniqueness, sivarians, everything else, and that
plays out in our family dynamics and absolutely absolutely M Petro, what what did
you take away? And I think you had a slightly slightly different stance because
you were starting with Tara and her sister, her twin sister, M what
did you take away from from the conversation, Like Angela said, it's just
a uniqueness. Um, growing will be married to tar for seventeen years,
knowing her for eighteen Um, just seeing how their dynamic was so different.
Even though they were twins, they were done a good twins. On top
of that, it was just their their attitude, their demeanor that everything was
was totally opposite. One was to the left, almost to the um.
And then also myself growing up, Um, I didn't really have siblings until
right. Let mean I say that I had siblings at a young age,
but I didn't know my siblings that well, Like we spent time together,
but it was very in between. So I kind of almost grew up as
an only child. Especially when we moved from Bermuda to New York, I
was the only child. So when I finally then when my mother married and
brought on my brothers and sisters from his marriage from his previous marriage, Um,
then it was like learning to be a sibling all over again. And
that was a dynamic that was that was that was very unique and trying to
figure out because you had to try to find your place because all of a
sudden, I got like a blended family. I'm just got this big family
and now I got to learn my place and you know, where I'm at,
where I belong, where I don't belong, you know. Um,
But I just took that it's good to have siblings, um, in the
sense of just to have somebody else to lean on, to hang out with.
Like my oldest sister, she was always she was stuck with me pretty
much. They pretty much just threw on me, threw me on her and
said, if anything happens, you're in You're in trouble. So she was
pretty much like, you know, like my my parent. You know,
not that my parents was in parents, but she was pretty much It's just
like everywhere she went, I had to go. She wanted to go somewhere
I had to go too. So but it developed. It allow us to
develop a relationship with each other, um as a sibling, as brother and
sister, just to um understand each other and and just and confiding each other,
you know. So it was good to have a sibling as I got
older. UM. And you spoke there about about the closeness between you two,
and I think we'll also unpack that the differences between the eldest we have.
I said this before, that we have my relationship with my siblings is
a weird relationship. And we talked about this um this past week. And
I don't mind saying this because I said to my siblings, we me and
my siblings were weird in the sense of that we can go a whole year
or two if I speaking to each other, and then when we speak it's
like we never left. UM. But then we can also, um,
if something that happens, we can kind of they can we can kind of
ghost each other and not talk to each other for a while. Like I
haven't talk to some of my siblings over things that's happened for a while,
and it's just the way it is. I don't lose no sleep over it.
It's just what it is. I can't control. You know that they
may not want to speak to me or they don't really like me at this
moment, But UM doesn't mean that I don't still have love for my siblings.
I always if they need something that they call me, I'm gonna be
there and be like, hey, I got you. But at the moment
they're just not you know, just we're just not on the same page.
So it you know, it's siblings. UM, Yeah, it's unique.
In that sense. You know, it's I think for me, my uniqueness
just that I have such I have siblings from half siblings, step siblings.
You know, I'm like really the only technically the only child of my mother
besides my brother and my sister, who are actually twins. And so it's
just makes it just a weird it just makes my situation a weird dynamic in
a sense of siblings because we didn't all grow up from beginning to end.
You kind of like kind of meshed as the years went along. So and
it's it's you know, as I said, it's interesting to hear that because
it's it's just all sorts of dynamics that make up the family, doesn't it.
Um. I'm going to introduce who've been patiently waiting our practitioners, um
Dorothy, you've been here with us before. I think I've said it Europe
practically our resident therapist at this point. I'm not sure if you want the
title, but I'm handing it over to you. And also we've got with
us Kelly Brodrick. Um Dorothy, if you want to introduce yourself, and
for those of us who may not have heard you before and new to talking
point, let us know a little bit about yourself. Okay, just briefly,
I'm a psychotherapist and having in the field for over twenty five years,
mainly worked in education universities and colleges. In the last ten years or so,
I've been working in private practice. Okay, excellent, Kelly. I
my name is Kelly, and I am the integrative therapist. I've been in
practice for about five years. My volunteer at Cornerstone Christian Council in Service as
well as the volunteer councilors, and I also have been in private practice for
a while and specialize in working with minority communities around attachment and psychodynamic kind of
theory, which is around your history in the past. Lovely, but this
is your first time to talking point to Welcome to you both as well.
So we've we've sort of talked about what we gathered for the last show.
You've heard that we've all got our own little unique family dynamic. But Dorothy
Kelly, Um, is this something that it's new to you in your personal
and your professional capacity? What do you think about that sibling relationship? Is
it? Is it more complex than we can have ever unraveled? Um?
What's your take on the relationship. M hm. How it's as you It's
as unique or complicated as we want to make it. So when I look
in the Bible, the first one is Caine and Able, and look what
happened there? Sibling rivalry. Yeah, um, so there's good things about
it. Was it Able who was Caine was the eldest one, and Angela
said before she was she was our only child for a certain time till the
other one turned out. And then you know, so he was having a
great bath. Then the younger one came up and he may have been a
little jealous of how the parents related to the newsborn. And then the younger
child is looking up to the bigger brother, thinking, wow, you're great,
and whereas the older one is like, you're annoying, you're spoiled.
You get on my nerves, black king, you know. So when we
look at it from way back then, there's always been some sort of rivalry
within siblings. And if I look at my own personal life, I'm one
of six, I'm second youngest. Did I like being in a large family
as a child, No, there were too many. And then when we
had all the cousins come around, you know, and then my friends were
single children getting everything. I was getting hand downs. We shared everything.
We had one bite between three of us. You know, everything was shared.
No, as an adult, having siblings is my life, is my
everything. I couldn't do if I had my siblings. They're my best friends.
My sister and I've got brothers who are everything. Do we have the
rivalry and whatever we sought it out now is she's still there? We still
sort out our stuff now. You know, we don't have the problems that
we did as younger children as adults. Now we can get hard and talk
about things and get through them much easier than when I was growing up.
So being like being an adult with siblings different. When we look at the
research, again, it's as complicated, more depend on the parents than the
siblings themselves. How are the siblings managed? And that's what it is.
How do we manage the situation as adults and we work with the rivalry?
What is rivalry? The dynamics? How do we introduce a new child?
And we talked about earlier about blending families, how do we do that?
So it's about managing it all? So is it more it depends on the
individuals and how it's all managed. Yeah, it's not as and she said,
it's not a cookie cutter approach. It really just depends on the family
and the dynamics of it. And you're You're very right. Parenting plays a
very key role and we want to dissect that in a moment, Kelly,
anything to add there, So I'm losing my voice. I think Dorothy kind
of covered quite a lot of it. I said that it was a lot
of it depends on the family mission statement. So you know, that's like
that your values and your morals and what you what your parents think are important
and often what is part of that. It's around dynamics. So a lot
of it is intergenerational and that also includes trauma as well, so you know,
some some of it is passed through into you know, those sibling groups
that can create the dynamic you know, between the siblings. I think that
you know, is it is it better to have siblings or not have siblings?
It depends on the person that you talk to, because some people have
some real difficult situations as a result of having siblings, and you know,
for some people that can be you know, that can be quite a tough,
quite tough thing to navigate. For the vast majority of people, having
siblings is an extension of like a best friend or you know, it's a
it's good teaching ground. You know, you learn how to age and forward
relationships, you learn how to you know, navigate conflicts, learn how you
know in terms of attachments, you know, things like that. So there's
lots of rich learning that you can get from from siblings. But everybody's situation
is very, very different. I'm I'm the eldest. I'm the eldest of
three, okay, and it would you'd probably say that I may have been.
I was brought up as like an only child. There's seven years between
me and my next my next sibling, which is my brother, and then
three years after him was my sister. So there's many eleven years between me
and my youngest. So I pretty much was almost brought up like an only
child, and my brother and sister were like they were created this like a
new family. Because I was seven by the time, you know, my
brother came along, so I had everything, you know, I had everything
that I wanted, you know, and when he came along, there was
a lot of jealousy, you know, and that had to be done so
yeah, what I'm gathering from what you're saying is a lot of the relationship
between brother and sisters navigated or established by the peer rental relationships, and that
is quite key, Angie. Anything to add there before we move on,
No, I mean, I totally agree with everything, but it's really interesting.
Kelly was just saying they're about the age difference and how that can you
know, the gap between two or three or whatever can make a real big
difference. And again, as you said, I guess it depends on also
the length of time as well. I made between myself and my sisters.
There's really five between a second one and then I can't even do the masks
a lot more between that, so yeah, that doesn't make a difference.
I've never need to thought it from that perspective because I guess I'm not how
to think of it that way. Um, I'm sure my sister might have
a lot to say about that, but yeah, yeah, and again that's
where the parents have to really play a huge part in that because if that's
not managed or noticed or what happened, then actually that can cause a lot
of problems. And I guess what's set up from being a child can just
you know, continue into adulthood and can you know as you get older each
presentment for instance, for those years and it could be quite unknown as well.
I guess maybe we'll talk a little bit more about that placed one in
terms of conflict. You know, there might be an issue, and you
can be so unaware of these things to later on in life it comes out
and you're like, wow, that happened when we were tear So, yeah,
that's really interesting on that. Well, Andre, you've been You've been
very quick. That part of part of what you just said about the year
the gap. Oh yeah, it makes some sense now to myself, like
my personal self, like I'm like, wow, okay, that makes so
much sense because I was fourteen years between me and my brother and sister when
my mother had them. I don't you know, I had siblings that was
one that's four years older than me, one that's four years younger than me,
but we didn't live agree, wasn't together. So in the sense of
being with my growing up with my sibling was I was fourteen, and you're
right, you do. I didn't realize I was brought up like as a
loner. That displaced why my parents were so different towards the twins than it
was towards us, and it just it just clicked. It just literally clicked
my head when she said that, Yeah, it makes a difference. I
was the baby of the family for about five six years and it took a
lot not to be resentful that that this young man had come into the picture.
I'm like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm the baby. I'm I'm the
one that should be spoiled, and you know, I'm the one that that
should get everything and you know, should be doated on. And you know,
six seven years later, I'm like, well, where did he come
from? Um? Why why? You know, why why do you need
another child? Um? Surely I'm enough. But obviously, I mean,
these dynamics play a role. And again it will impact how our relationship,
how will we engage each other, myself and my brother. And it's difficult
because of that age gap. You know, we don't necessarily do the same
things, and we don't necessarily have the same interests. Um. And it's
it's important for us to make an effort to foster that relationship because it may
not come naturally. So that the age gaps definitely make make a difference.
Yeah, Andre Royal, you've been waiting patiently. Thank you. Um,
just tell us a little bit about yourselves, um, and we want to
just talk about your own relationship as the only siblings at present online I think
Angie and some bad they've disappeared. Um, so just tell us for those
who miss siblings part one, a little bit about yourself and then we'll talk
about your relationship as brother and brother. And do you want to start the
ball rolling? Sorry, you're a mute, You're both are my apologies.
That's fine. I should know better boy now as Ricky Ricky mistake anyway.
All right, So my name is Andrew Jones. Like I'm currently healing from
coaches to slash classon LC some more on the coast East Coast. But I
was born in Barbada's Group in Barbadas and was essentially an only child until my
brother turned up some ten eleven years later, after I stopped asked for sibling,
well, constantly prestering my parents for sibling. Um, uh, well
it's clesy. Um yeah, I'll really interest himself and then we will talk
about a relationship. Uh. Yes, So my name is LL I currently
live in Portsmouth. Recently at least a year now. Um. I was
born into grew up in Barbados, and a little bit of Martinique as well.
Andrea also Martinique. He missed up partner, but and it is actually
twelve years, not at ten, and he's missing years. That's fine,
um, younger brain, younger brain. UM Uh yeah, I'm also married,
don't have any kids yet, that's all, UM, tell us a
little bit go on. God, no, I was going to say,
I couldn't help watching the faces of our resident psychologists characters listening as each other
their already analyzing you. Mus stood up by default anyway, UM tell us
about your own relationship you You've already spoken about the divide, the time,
the time gap between our the age gap between you both. UM. But
I know from from knowing you both that your relationship was very very strong,
UM, very close. Um what what what makes that possible? Even though
you weren't did you say that much? If you did, you weren't raised
together for most um of your youth or time together siblings was relatively short,
um, in a sense that, as we all said, eleven twelve years
different when I left home when Royal was still young, but whilst I was
home. No, I would take role with me when I when I went
out to some extent of course, when I got involved in singing UM,
so I sang an a cappella group from young and he would be there present,
kind of taking it all in UM. But when I left, we
communicate by letter every you know. And again I actually stumbled across a card
that Royal wrote me UM when he was I think it probably about seven years
old or their boats and I started came across it just UM last week a
week before, and so that that's how our initial kind of exchanges were.
But when we got older, that's kind of mostly when or leadership kind of
caught forged or a lot closer. Um. We share varies in my personalities,
similar interests UM. Some of that possibly from UM rule being around me,
but some of it not. Some of it's just quite organic UM.
Possibly because of our parents maybe. But the distance hasn't prevented us from developing
a close relationship. There's a mutual respect, of mutual admiration and yeah,
it's been it's been a blessing to have a brother. Oh Ull, do
you feel the same way as Absolutely, it's it's more pros and cons having
a better from my point of view. Um. I think also it's also
down to the parenting, even though we were probably parented by different people,
because twelve years in that time people change and probably parents. What I've learned
from what they've done with Andrea and what I've done things differently with me.
But the principle of what they taught us it was the same, um to
some to some extent, so um, but I was always the I guess
it's a common thing where whenever are would be around, I would want to
be right by his like or wherever he would wanted to go. Even though
I couldn't go everywhere with him I did. I just wanted to be there.
And part of the influence of music that you had just fell straight back
on me. And then I had my own group and to this day we
sang in London make this karale together. And so music has always been that
kind of threat that blinded us together even more. Even you were supposed to
sing this, we came coming up, but somehow he's not able to make
it up. But that's fine, we will make it up for another time.
UM. But yeah, we're definitely much closer now as a pretty much
making up for the times that he was away while I was still young and
still kind of played a bit of ketchup and whenever you get the chance to.
Even though we're far apart, I mean personalities and colchister, most of
our bonding will be either through what's that catchingly, how are you doing?
What's life like? And trying to make sure we advise each other the best
way we know how. Yeah, technology has certainly helped in terms of keeping
our families closer. I can't imagine doing it when you had to do it
buy paper and pen, you know, many many years ago. We're going
to take a break with stick a pin right here. I have a lineup
of songs from siblings. In fact, we're going to start perhaps with that
Mary, Mary. I'm running and when we come back, I will ask
our therapists to unpack because a lot of that has come up during a conversation.
Maybe to talk to our parents and talk about parenting and how significant that
is in sort of managing and sort of developing that sibling relationship. Yeah,
all right, you're listening to Advantis Radio London and it's talking point back with
you after this when you speak to me I have direction, but I woke
up today. You ain't said nothing down which way? Do not go?
And tell me when do I? Because I will never know if I don't
get to you. So fine, it's hard, but it's worth getting looking
said, I'm just trying to find you. It feels like Danny, I'm
so last without you. But I'm feeling that spread and I don't want to
feelings because I need a solution. Walking, just walking walking matter, my
boy, it's gonna get to where you are. I gotta go. We
gotta go and show where as the tear passy waters all my soul, get
down on my heart, desire and two words then I get, I stop
and wall. This is one run and I can start set. I'm mind
and I won't start. I won't sid I'm mind, run money, I
want it running to my keeper, to my help. You love Mary Mary.
Um, It's siblings Part two, and I've got a lineup of siblings.
Um, justin give us a little break in between. I think.
Next, we've got BBCC widens. Who doesn't love that dynamic duo. We're
back and we're talking to siblings, we are talking to therapists. It's all
happening here this afternoon, but it's been a really good discussion so far.
And I think for me, where I'd like to go next is to talk
to our parents and to talk about parenting, because from all the conversation that
we've had, we've realized how crucial and parenting or what part that plays in
the sibling relationship. And I'm going to go straight to our therapist and perhaps
they can shed some light on that to help us to unpack unpack that what
part do our parents play? And I'm thinking now of the story of Joseph.
That always comes to mind because he was doted on by his father,
he was spoiled by his father, he was cherished by his father, perhaps
more than the others, maybe not perhaps, And I think that had a
part to play in how the brothers felt about him. And we all know
how that story ended to God with the glory, but there were some really
rough patches in between. Dorothy, I'm going to I'm coming to you first,
what part do our parents play in that sibling relationship? A very very
important part as parents. There there's so many different roles because you don't want
to be too much involved. So what I would say First, it's about
to create, creating an atmosphere so the children can feel like they can talk
together. It's important for parents to help them to navigate it, but allow
them to talk and to develop and that that environment where they can talk one
to another you talked about, Joseph. It's about celebrating each child's uniqueness and
talking about that as a family and encouraging that talk, giving them space to
be themselves and encouraging them to talk as one. It's all about creating that
atmosphere, treating each children as individuals, celebrating each children and allowing them to
talk one to another. I think that's really important. Put them in the
ring together. I can say that as I said that I've come from a
big family. Our parents they would listen. So if I had a complaint
about my brother, my parents would listen to me and encourage me. Or
don't worry. Maybe your brother didn't mean it. Why don't you tell your
brother how you felt. I think that's the important thing for your parents to
be parents and encourage them. What would it be like and if they can
do together, allow them to. But you may need to also being there
and mediate between the two of them. Media listen to both of them and
mediate, but really listen to the children, allow them to have their space,
one with you, one with each other. Absolutely, Kelly, let
me ask you this, how much of how we treat each other, how
we communicate, how we manage our conflicts, is based on how we see
our parents do that. How much of everything we see and what we everything,
because it's you know, the way how our parents treat us, the
way how our parents handle each other, as in, parents sets the blueprint
for children as to how they then manage their relationships. So if parents find
it very difficult to manage conflict, children are absorbing that environment. Because they
say that seventy parent teaching is modeling, is through modeling, and thirty percent
is actual teaching, as in telling them what they should be doing. So
children are watching, you know, even as babies, they are watching and
they've already sussed their parents out in terms of how to kind of manage things.
So it's very very important. Parenting is the key to how children are
able to you know, engage with one another, engage with them, and
you know, it's it's everything. Don't I like what you said? And
thank you Kelly for adding to it. Andrey Pedrol, both parents on the
panel. How much how involved do you get because Dorothy does say that you
need to you get involved as you're needed. You step back, you navigate,
you you um sort of mediate. So how involved do you get as
you because you've got kids as well, how involved do you get in in
the arguments and the discrepancies between them? Just interested to know. I was
just thinking about what Dorothy said. I forgot it was Dorothy or the other
therapists we had on the last time with the siblings, and that was so
then my wife and I both started to do was to not get in between
their arguments because my wife had a habit even me even myself sometimes of like
they stopped bickering like like a a stop. And we noticed now that when
they stop bickering or when they start having a disagreement amongst themselves, just let
them be and just knowing when to step in when when when you know it's
just getting too much. So we actually start using that that thought process from
the last time where we had the siblings um meeting a couple of weeks ago,
and we noticed a big difference that they seem to work it out on
their own and um, we just let them. You know, that is
that is healthy for them to actually argue with each other because I think sometimes
as parents we have a tendency to not have the kids argue at all.
But yeah, then they see us, they see my wife and I arguing,
but then they also see us. They may see us having a disagreement,
but then they also see us okay, diffusing this disagreement and then coming
to a compromise. And so they they're learning that process too. Now when
they when they're discussing something that they don't like, that they can express to
each other like um, Kelly said, how how Doughty said to how they're
feeling, and then the other one can say, Okay, I'm sorry,
I didn't realize you felt that way. And we were actually seeing the progression
of their mind thinking and their because my oldest is it's gonna be fifteen and
then another one's gonna be thirteen. So as teenagers, you know, it's
just a lot of homemones, a lot of things going on. So some
days they're just having a bad day. Sometimes school is just a little stressed
for them, so and sometimes they take it out on each other. So
we're learning we're actually learning that that is actually a good thing to let them
work it out on their own. It's just when they come to us and
say, look, you know this is going on, then we kind of
step in and say, okay, we sit down, we have worship.
Doing worship. A lot of times if they have a disagreement, I won't
say anything. I'll wait to worship, and then doing worship, I would
then address the whole I was just the hope now, like because sometimes you
gotta let it breathe. So they have a disagreement, I won't even say
nothing right away. I I let just the argument or the disagreement going.
They can be mad at each other for an hour or two. But then
when we have worship, I'll address it and then explain, and then I
can see that mine's working. Like, Okay, maybe I did overreact,
maybe I didn't you know, maybe I took it in the wrong way and
I could have thought of it in a different way. So I just noticed
that that's the best way to do it, like have a family setting,
as they said, have that family setting, have them all together, and
then we talk about it. Yeah, And as Dorothy said, communication is
key. Communication is key. The ability to communicate with each other. Um,
andre I didn't want peace and quiet, feel quiet? Um no,
I think that's that's that's often what prompts his parents to jump in, and
he would annoys, shut up, keep quiet. Stop. But um,
especially with my my two younger children, they are as thick as thieves there
you cannot separate them. But in life fashion, they argue just as fierce
as they love each other. So it's um letting them work it out.
Let them work it out. It teaches them how to deal with conflict,
how to manage disagreements. But then there are those times when either one is
just not letting the others speak. For example, at that point, maybe
you can step in itself, listen, let let her talk and listen,
and then you get to talk, so you kind of mediate but don't get
involved. And if it gets a bit too hot, you could try a
little joke just to try and just taper off some of the theme, as
it were. But it works better when you let them work it out,
and sometimes you don't. You can just sit back and just watch it play
out and have a good laugh, and another time will come out you share
that same story and you get everyone has a laugh about it, but it
is sometimes hard to watch them all out, especially it's getting kind of serious.
It is hard to step back and let it play out. But more
often that it is a better option, the better way of dealing with it.
Okay, um, And that kind of thank you ANDREI that lends itself
to our next sort of topic of discussion. What are some of these issues
that create conflict between siblings? Um? You know, what are the hot
points of the hot issues amongst us that can really push our buttons? Um?
Angela Samantha, Samantha, you there, hello, Yes, I hear
weekend we can, Um, we didn't hear enough of your story, and
I think we want to start there because we ran out of time last last
um, well, the last show siblings won tell us a little bit about
you, um, and to the sister, we know that we've got that
down, but tell us a little bit about you and then maybe you can
talk about the relationship. I know last time you spoke, you said,
and I think it's been alluded to in our conversations thus far that it's a
little dicey at first. You know, as young uns, we're feisty,
and as we grow, our hormones, et cetera, et cetera. But
Dorothy has mentioned, as has been mentioned with Pedrow, as you get older,
you come to value that relationship. You come to value your siblings a
lot more. Um, so tell us about you and then we start to
talk about that development between and that growing between you and Angela. Okay,
well, Semantha was born and raised in the UK. Um, born in
Derby. Then we moved down south to Hampshire and then was last living in
London. One minute, how do you get this US accent? Then in
London? All right? Okay, in South London? Yeah so um,
yeah, So I work in human resources. So I've been doing that for
a number of years for different companies. Um, twelve years ago I moved
to the US. So my husband's American. So when we obviously decided to
get married, I had to figure out does he come here to the UK
or do I go to the US. I chose to go to the US,
and twelve years here I am, although I'm over in the UK right
now. Yeah. So I live in Connecticut, which is near New York
because no one really has heard of Connecticut. U. Yeah, so they
have any children? And yeah, so that's me. Obviously I have two
siblings, so Angela is my older sister, and then I have a younger
sister, Charlie, as well, So that's a bit about me. So
I mean, I guess pivoting to what you were asking around the kind of
dynamics. So you know, what I remember is, you know, obviously
Angela was first, and then I came along four and a half years later,
and I think I had definitely second child syndrome. I think that's the
thing. New therapists probably will say that what is that, but I didn't
believe it is. And I remember like kind of just always striving to be
doing what my older sister had opportunities to do. I just felt like it
wasn't fair if I couldn't go this place or that place, or couldn't get
this and couldn't get that. And so I found that I was, you
know, wishing I was older, and then you know, trying to hang
out with my sister and her friends and you know, she'd be like,
no, no, you're too young and etce. So I would be like,
no, no, I'm wearing an old close and all of that kind
of thing. So I kind of went through that phase for sure. Um.
And then you know, between my sister and I, you know,
we would fight at times because I think I've got a little bit of a
bossy nature, so um, I would set faces on radio, so I'd
be like sometimes acting as if I'm the older sibling, you know, and
sometimes that would cause you know, tension, and you know, we'd fight,
just argue and things like that. So I wouldn't say that when we
were younger we were that close, but I think you know, as obviously,
Angela moved out went to university and I was I was at home.
Um, and then eventually I moved out. And then over that time,
as we're kind of just adapting and trying to just figure out, um,
you know, our life more independently, that's when I felt like, you
know, we became much more close. Um, you know, spend time
and things like that, and over time, you know, I do,
you know, feel that our relationship has just got strengthened, for sure.
UM. So it was a big thing then when obviously moving to the US
and kind of making that decision because obviously that provides you know, it's a
distance now which we didn't have before. We didn't we had distance of just
you know, being a different part of the country, but being in another
country and then having to do with the time zone difference. You know,
it's been quite harder. But that in of itself, I guess going through
that experience, we have got you know, like closer. Um, so
I guess there's some kind of benefits to a certain extent where they say,
you know, absence makes the heart grow fonder, and I think there's some
you know, some some truth to that in terms of that. So so
yeah, so that's I guess, you know, one aspect and then the
other aspect is being obviously an older sibling. I always wished, you know,
I had younger you know siblings as well, and so obviously Charlene came
along. I think the difference with me is let's see, eleven years no
sorry, nine years, nine years different age difference. Um. And so
what was interesting with that though, is that you know, she has special
needs, so she had learning difficulties. So she's thirty eight m she's a
very loving sister, and we saw obviously really like grow but obviously wanting to
experience um, you know, the I guess normal aspects of person kind of
developing as a child and going into adulthood just really didn't experience that, And
you know, that's been in of itself, you know, challenging and sad
because I often wish, oh, what would it be like if you know,
she didn't have this challenge? UM, you know what the dynamic as
three sisters would be, UM and things like that and so UM. But
you know, I would change it, though, because she is just such
a wonderful, wonderful sister, loving sister, and I you know, miss
her dearly. UM went to see her yesterday, UM in a care home
and she's just all smiles and stuff like that. So but obviously I don't
know what it feels like to you know, obviously you know have like unlike
my sister, having a younger sister, UM, you know, and kind
of building that relationship. It's been a sort of a different dynamic in that
front. Okay, you did you did you see it the same way?
Did you experience it the same way? Did you feel that it's Do you
feel that your relationship has certainly grown, um and gotten stronger over the years.
Yeah, definitely. I think it's interesting. But you know, sort
of talking about the age difference, UM, I maybe don't remember it quiet
like that, because iimes I kind of think she's saying about the second child.
I kind of think I made things really easy for her because I probably
did loads of stuff, got into loads of trouble for it, and then
you know, smile to have the opportunities to do things. And I would
look back and think, if it wasn't for me, you'd never have that
opportunity. And I guess that's understandable. You know, parents kind of you,
they kind of relax a little bit, that sort of thing um.
And I kind of think, I mean, I'd like to think I was
a cool big sister as well, So as much as she maybe felt she
couldn't do things, I probably did bring her along to stuff. I remember.
Actually maybe it's just my imagination, but even when I had my own
flat and stuff, I'd say, you know, come down with your friends.
I'm going out. You can come and hang out at my place.
So she had an older sister that she could bring her friends down to stay.
They hear my place and that sort of thing. So I think I
paid the way, but I interesting. I think Andre was saying about his
two young his two children who think of seeds, but they fight equally.
I think there has been times when we have really argued, but at the
same time really concocted stories between us that would say, Okay, we're going
to get into trouble by a parents, but you know what, Okay,
we'll contact this story so we can try and get out of trouble, even
though apparently probably just think, I don't know why you think you can try
and pull the wool over our eyes, but we did. So we'd be
scheming with each other, and we had a secret language as well. You
know, children speak when we speak Haggy Peggy. Oh, and again that
was our way of communicating. So our parents didn't you know, didn't understand.
Um, you cut out, So you're saying that you speak, you
two speak a different language, Hagy Peggy. Did I hear that one?
Hey you thank you? Um you can Dorothy, Okay, Hey Lego,
UM, I gonna say take a Kegyegan vegas nag and zeggas megang Mega eggs
egger jagger Lega will tell you what I said. So she basically said that
her name is Angela, and I was saying hello, talking point listening the
way of kinds of you put different sounds and fancy break down the word put
sounds to count to the back the vowels and what have you. So,
yeah, we did all We did all that as we were younger, which
is very handy, very clever. Did you have to oh my gosh,
oh pig Latin? Yeah, yeah, okay, oh yeah, exactly.
That's a similar one as well. So, um, unless we've got older.
I mean, as Spanta talked about, you know, um, when
she moved away, I remember feeling really devastated, actually thinking not that I've
lost her, but you know, the distance is a big distance. However,
we probably I mean we practically speak most days at least a couple of
times during the day, so probably grown a lot closer. Um, there
are probably times where you have to sometimes wonder who is the oldest at the
two I think that kind of five year difference has really reduced in terms of
how we're what we're like. We've got very different personalities but also quite similar.
And then I think, you know, with our relationship with our young
with Charlie and our younger sister, again the closeness there as well. I
know I'm fiercely protective of both of them, you know, we'd do absolutely
anything for them, you know, we'd try to do and I like,
you know, trying to do as much as I can for them in one
of the situations. So you know, I take my role as a big
sister really seriously, you know. But yeah, it's been it's an interesting
ride, and I'm really glad for the relationships that I have. You know,
I think it's been able to me to develop skills resilient. It's been
very character building, you know, all along. So like I said at
the beginning, definitely a benefit. And I think, you know, i'd
like to think, you know, my sisters have learnt something from me,
and equally I've learnt a lot from them as well, you know, and
despite the challenges, and I think it's just again finding ways to deal with
those challenges in a really positive way, if there is such a thing,
or maybe Dorothy and doth Kelly and nodding their heads and some of the things
you've been saying. So I guess there's a lot to unpack there as well.
So yeah, so I'll leave that there, and the Sun's got something
else to add on that one. I mean, one thing I will say
about Angela, She's like very resourceful, so you know it's like, oh,
have you got this? I'll go to her house and you know,
she basically has all the clothes and all the gadgets and this and that.
You know, so I've never left wanting, so I really appreciate the fact
that, you know, Angela will always you know they call Mary popping that
she has everything in her bag or just everything around. So there's there's that,
and so obviously I think we'd compliment because, as Angela said, you
know, very different skills and personality, but I think, you know,
where there will be things that I fall short of, you know, she'll
be excelling in that and vice versa. And then together, you know,
I think complimentary as how we kind of you operated as a unit to support
each other. So yeah, and I think that's also a testiment probably to
our parents as well. I mean, I think as we were brought up
to be very much independent and kind of resourceful to do things, we take
a lot of characteristics from our parents. We lost our dad when we were
fairly young, so again we've probably had to almost conversate for some of that
as well. But you know, I think we were taught to kind of
strife for things, to be able to do things off our own kind of
our own back and do stuff. You know, we will always talked to
be you can be something. How we were in to do lots of different
activities, different things, so you know we probably could do random things that
maybe you sorry you think, Ah, I didn't know you could do that,
but yeah, we've always been and we've always been like that as well.
So you know, as you talk about parents and the role that they
play, I think that's been a big part of it as well. Wonderful,
Um, everyone's so close and so loving. I think the next the
next segment of the next section has to be about conflict. We need to
we need to unpack some of that and see if there's been anything that we
need to talk about that's transpired between our siblings that we can maybe delve into,
because I'm sure it has. I mean that's the nature of relationships.
They're good times and bad times, and I think the beauty of it is
being able to navigate them all. Um, So we're going to take a
break, baby and cc um. The selection is called Grace, and when
we come back, we'll talk about conflict and maybe Dorothy and Kelly can in
their professional capacity, speak about some of those conflicts that they have come across.
What's what's prevalent, what do you usually see among siblings? And then
our siblings can speak maybe of conflicts that they've navigated um on their own.
He wrought me my trials, He wrought me through tribulations, never let a
day gone back. And I realize, and I've been the lord who was
on my side, go against the wall, little goble of me. He
heard my pride and restilled him. Never let a day go back in I
be alive right here to die. Shine and weird blessing and the highly babor
shines and weird blessing and the highly baby. I would said that one more
time. He brought me my trials. He brought me through tremulation, Never
let a day go by, and I feel life and happen. For the
lord who was on my side that goes against the wall. He looked tough
for me, he hearl cry and rescue me. Never let a day go
life. And I realize d taking the land. And we name how many
of you believe she has no no less and Ida, I just want you
to take a look back back don't you know that it's a busy. It's
amazing how he the tevil? What's the devil? Then turn around around,
baby true here and I babor. I just want you to think about it
for a moment. It could have been me. It should have been me.
It would have been me. If it was the mother black, it
could have been me. It should have been me. It would have been
me. If it was the mother blah, it would have been me.
It should have been me. It would have been me. It did was
a mother blad, it should have been me. It should have been me.
It would have been me. If it black, it would have been
me. It should have been me. It would have been me. If
it was a mother blah, get, it should be get. It was
place my Mercy cover, Marcy cover, it was rin. Ain't called me
just the plan when I wasn't mastar thanking for your prad time. I don't
because I knew I can't I welcome in the mor I do think you for
your grads think a Marcy ain't no, I walk? Don't that is a
shower? Yes, nobody have to tell me. And that's live radio for
you instead of the city. It was the clock sisters who with blessed and
highly favored beautiful selection. Nonetheless, it's about twenty five minutes past year of
six o'clock and you're listening to Talking Point if you've just joined us. Its
Siblings Part two, Really good discussion we've had so far. We've got on
the panel, so many names, so many faces. I'm very well who
was with us before for Siblings Part one? Thank you for joining us again,
and Dorothy and Kelly or a resident therapists. Kellya thrown it at you,
you said you would. Now it's lot who've been helping us to unpack
this dynamic. And of course my usual co host and partners, Angela and
Pedro. Angel's also got Samantha and Mine who's her sister, her younger sister,
and she's been talking about that relationship as well. Right where we wanted
to go from here was talking about conflicts, because we've got some relationships we've
been talking about and it's been all good and wonderful and we like it like
that very close athen Roual and Angela and Samantha, we're talking about our own
relationships and we've got close siblings as well. But we know as life is
that it can get dicey, it can get troublesome. Some sibling relationship ships
have ended in devastation, and we know that. So we want to talk
about what causes conflicts, what causes rivalry and so forth amongst siblings. And
I've asked Kelly Paps, you can start this conversation off, what are some
of the things perhaps you've seen in practice maybe personally, what are some of
the things that divides our siblings. So I seem to work a lot with
the Black community with counseling. So there's issues that may have come up around
the wind rush and migration where siblings have been split. So there may be
some children that may have been left behind and some that you know, we're
living in maybe the UK, and then there may be put together and that
can often cause some difficulties. And sometimes it's difficult for the parents to be
able to recognize that there's an issue or maybe the parents have caused the issue,
and a lot of it is you know, a lot of them don't
talk about it. And what I've seen is that when sometimes when parents pass
away, that's when a lot of the childhood issues come up that have never
been addressed. You know, when parents were alive, and that's quite that
can be quite devastating. So there's always been something there, but nobody talks
about it. It's like the elephant in the room, but nobody talks about
Nobody knows how to unpack it safely in a way that everybody gets to ear
their perspective and you know, but find a way to be able to build
a better foundation. So that that's often that comes up at what comes up.
And also gender roles as well, So if you know, dependent on
your order of birth, you know, you would have been brought up by
different parents at a different time in their development. Some children who may have
been the eldest may have been adultified, so they might have been responsible for
the younger ones have become a surrogate parent, particularly girls. If they're the
firstborn, they will have to often look after the younger ones. Or if
it's a first boy then often it may be quite different. So if the
old if the eldest is a boy, and he may not have the responsibility.
But then if the next child along is a girl, then maybe she's
then adultified. So there's there's lots of different dynamics, and then there's issues
around neurodiversity, So neurodiversity would be you know, maybe autism ADHD Those things,
if they're not diagnosed, can cause a lot of it can cause a
lot of destruction in the family if it's undiagnosed, and you know there maybe
might be difficult to manage, and parents may feel the need to try and
pander to the child. Maybe that maybe quite explosive, emotionally explosive, and
maybe the other children may feel that they are being sacrificed. So those are
just a few of you know, some of the issues, and I'm sure
Dorothy you may have seen other things as well, So yeah, thank you
for that, Kelly. Dorothy, you want to add here basically what Kelly
said, the big part of it when we said before about how to manage
it is how the parents deal with the siblings. So when we talk,
a lot of the time parents tried to or they say, I treat you
all equally, but they're not equal. They're individuals. So it's about seeing
them as individuals and being fair and explaining that to the rest to their siblings.
No, no, the reasons, it's kind of bending towards alluding to
what Kelly was talking about. New our diversity, different needs. I think
that's a big thing within families. We think everybody gets the same, everybody's
allowed this, but no, no, no, equity. It's better the
better word equity. Absolutely, So that's a part that I want to really
bring it at this point. Do you see any other because we were looking
at at some of the in my research some of the reasons. Um obviously
neurodiversence is one. UM order of birth is another. So you know,
the youngest, as I spoke to before, feeling very entitled, feeling poet,
spoiled what mom did with the eldest when when she really wanted to pay
attention and she was younger, and you know, she was more on it.
That goes out of the window. By the fifth one, You're like,
you know, do what you want. I'm over it now, you
know. Um. So there's a difference in treatment from the eldest to the
younger, and that comes across us in their relationship. UM. Maybe difference
in looks, difference in in um ability abilities, things like that. These,
yeah, these are all some of the reasons why you have that divide
amongst siblings as well. Do you get a lot of that in your practice?
Do you get a lot of Do you see a lot of that in
your practice? Um, yes, there's a lot of that, And it's
about trying to get them to see the differences. It's what we've talked about.
Each one of your siblings are different. So the eldest in my family,
there's six of us that grew together, and the eldest three looked at
the looked at the youngest three and I mean the youngest thing. So it's
a bit like what Angelis said, you got away with murder, they paid
the way, that's it. And by the time they had all gone to
UNI, we were allowed to do a lot more. But again, my
parents were probably five, six, seven, ten years older, so they
had learned maybe they retired. So then you get the older ones coming back
and trying to parent the younger ones. And it's about saying no, no,
no, no, you're you're your your siblings, you're not parents.
Adultifying Kelly. Sometimes it's it's pushed on you. Sometimes people just take it
on and think that they need to and it's just but it's difficult to say
you shouldn't. Because Angela talked about it, saying with Samantha, well,
I want to believe that I paved the way. You know, I did
say to you come down. So as a as a older one, you're
thinking you're paving the way. You're doing this because it's like you just do
that. It's it's not a big a deal. It's just what I do.
And again, as parents is to stand back. And it sounds like
that's what a mother's parents did allow them to get home with it. They
talked about a loss of a parent. You know, they lost their father
and they were quite young. And that's another thing if you lose parents or
another sibling, because we will all deal with all of these different things and
it will call it may cause conflict because Kelly mentioned earlier, if a parent
dies, a lot of things that were never spoken about now come out and
it is an issue and we have to try and navigate that. I'm doing
that. If it's not parents, hopefully we're older, and then the different
personalities come into play here and it can be explosive. Or you can seek
help, get outside support, is what I always say. If you can't
manage it in a family unit, seek help. You don't have to do
everything on your own. Perfect if I can chame in, which is I
completely agree with the point I was made in terms of the fairest thing a
parent can do to their children is not treat them the same because they're not.
They may share a lot of traits, a lot of qualities, but
they're they're still individuals, um, and so to treat them all the same
will be to be treat to treat them un fairly, essentially. Absolutely.
I'm not sure if we mentioned this. One of the thing that I not
within my family, but what I've noticed caused a lot of conflict is when
um, different children of different parents, so step step siblings, the different
treatment that can sometimes be experienced because of that. Yeah, Joseph family is
a real typical biblical example of that, and disparity and treatment because of the
mother that was loved more than another mother or whatever else, etcetera, etcetera,
and often cause mean can I was actually going to jump in and say
something like that because he was talking about treating your children differently. Um,
Also, how about the dynamic of like growing up, Like when I grew
up, we didn't have much money. We had my mother made sure we
had where we needed. But then when my when my brother and my sister
came along. My parents were in a better place financially where they were able
to get more stuff. So they got they got to go to boarding school,
they got to go to Pineforch where we didn't get to go to Pine
fORCH because we didn't have the money to go to Pine fORCH at that time.
And so there was like it was like, wait, they get like
we had me and my sister. We had that dynamic of like, man,
you guys are treating them better than you treated us, Like you know,
like you're doing more for them than you did for us. But it
was more just economically. They didn't have it at that time because they were
starting out and as they grew they the financiers just got better then. But
what Andre said about um, I just lost the thought. But what he
said about with children and also treating them the same, it's hard sometimes because
children want to be treated the same. They think they want to be treated
the same, but they don't need to be treated the same. Right,
So I got what you were saying about. Like with my two children,
My my my hurting old she thinks she's the boss of us all and she
tries to boss the fourteen fifteen year old he's like, I'm the oldest,
leave me alone. And that's how a lot of the arguments and fight start.
And that's where a lot of it we have to be like, wait,
you're the youngest, he's the oldest. He's in charge of your second,
in charge of right, like just finding that place to put them,
you know, so they can they can manage. And then also wants thing
because I go up back a step the I mean ever, I think when
you have when you blend the family, and there is a step involved.
Um, Like for me, Mike, when my father married my mother,
he was trying to learn me, so we we I pushed back a lot
on him. It was my fault. I pushed back a lot. I
gave him a hard time, so he was harder on me that he was
with his own children. Was I look back, It is because he already
had that relationship with his children where he didn't have to push as hard as
he did with me. And as we got, as we got more and
more into our relationship, I learned to conform to what he wanted, and
then I found that my life was easier. Um having did he did he
have a conversation with you about that? Because here's the thing. We can
you know we can, right, so back then because back then we didn't
talk exactly and then we didn't talk. No, right, that's what I'm
saying. That's but that's why I'm bringing this up. It's saying that we
need to have that you need if you are, if you are joining into
it where you're the stuff. Like my my wife. I have two older
kids, twenty eight and twenty five, and when I met my wife,
I sat them. We all sat down and we had a conversation and I
said, this is my wife. Now you don't have to be You may
not like her, but you're gonna respect her. So we had that conversation,
and my wife for a long time didn't think that they even liked her.
But then when we was having conversations with them, they'll bring up stuff
that she was doing, just little things that she was doing for them that
she didn't realize she was doing. And they was like, I remember when
you made us breakfast and it was so good, and you know you made
the eggs of the black you know, like, and she was like you
remember that. They're like yeah, So, like you said, just having
that conversation because you're trying to it could be difficult sometimes and I just remember
that with my father, we just had a really hard Like the first couple
of years was really hard. We didn't have that conversation, but I think
we developed. I did a lot for I did a lot with him working
and stuff. I use a work in the ABC and the conference, and
he worked in the conference, so I will go to work with him.
And we didn't have communicate. We communicated in that way and spending time together.
So it was never spoken, but it was understood, if that makes
sense, Like we developed a relationship with our communication, but we did thankfully
develop a relationship as time went on. It can go, but it can
happen, but it's just harder. If we would have had that conversation,
I think it would have been much easier for us both. And I guess
the key word you used it as a conversation because you did communicate nonverbally,
yes, but what you didn't do was sick together and talk about it.
And sometimes that's difficult, especially with men. We talk about gender. It's
hard sometimes to talk about really what's going on. But you kind of started
to recognize, Okay, so if I do this, then I get this,
and he does that you communicated. You just didn't have that conversation,
and that's what was missing, but that you did communicate, So that'd be
too hard to each other. Oh no, no, Well, the reason
why I realized that we actually connected was because my sister, Stephanie passed away
and at the funeral, my father got up and he said, I just
want to thank one person in the whole you know, in the group something.
He's gonna say one of the children and he's like, I want to
thank my son Pedro. And the rest of the kids were mad at me.
They was like, what, why are you thinking him? And he
was like, because if I needed something for Stephanie, he was there.
If I needed him to do something, he was there if I you know,
and he started naming all these things and that's what and that was our
way up. That was when it clicked. That's when I realized that he
did now respect. You know, we had a respect for each other and
we understood each other. So it was never really communicated, but by him
saying that in front of everybody, the whole family, it kind of just
like okay. And then from then our relations ship grew even stronger. If
that make them absolutely went to a different level. It went to a different
level. Yeah, communicating, but it wasn't verbalife. And when your dad
verbally said it verbally in front of so many people, it took the relationship
to another level. Right again, to recommend just because we're not talking,
we're looking at each other, children are looking, siblings, we're all looking.
Do you see what they said? And do you notice how? And
we say it? So that's why we said before it's about it's sist in
the room. Think Pedro you said earlier your family before worship, you talk
about issues, and I guess it's about having those things in place. When
do you talk. Some people do it at meal times, some people do
it at worship, some people do it on the drive to school, coming
back from school, whatever it is. But having that talking because they're watching
you, our children and this is the nephews, they're watching us. They
may not say it that they store it up and that helps them to develop
as young men. Women take going into their own relationships. But don't don't
ever think just because you're not saying it, people say they don't see it.
Your children see it by how you treat yourself them your partner and the
rest of the siblings. There's a lot that said without being spoken. Can
I just bring in as well sometimes in terms of the communication, because children
can be quite black and white. I've got two girls, you know,
one is ten and one is six, and they are at two very different
developmental stages. So you know, the fighting, you know, again you
have to understand their developmental stage when they're arguing. You know, within my
house it turns to fist fights because the six year old, she's just got
that kind of energy, and you know, the ten year old, she's
you know, she can't be bothered with a with her six year old because
she's too little. But it's also about their perspective in terms of what they
understand of the situation, because it's they're both in the same situation. So
a fight will take place and you know, one will see it from a
different perspective from the other, and they believe it and they run with that
with that story. So and this is where it's important to have that conversation
with them to find out their perspectives and help them to learn how to navigate
the difficulty in their both in their developmental stages, which is going to be
different and that can be and that can be really really tough because you know,
my children would just blanket just say, oh, you love her more
than me when I was her eight you know, there's all that kind of
thinking, really are we really doing that? But but it's forced me as
a parent to really kind of asked questions them ankwesome about their feelings. So
now might not be the time, but maybe at dinner time, maybe having
someone to one time with them, and they all then express and explain how
it's made them feel, you know, and often it's that it's that feeling
of injustice. You know. The six year old is all about injustice.
The ten year old is all about you know, her feelings, her emotions,
and it feels this is how it feels. So it's about trying to
understand their perspective and that can be really really difficult. But also as well,
you want to help them to learn to conflict, you know, you
know, manage conflict. And also you have to be careful how you get
involved, because you can get involved and think that you're supporting them and then
the two of them will turn on you and you're the enemy. So you
know, you have to know how to kind of navigate. And it's based
on their personalities. You've got to know their personalities. So yeah, communication
is key. We we We've said that through and through and I think this
is the this program. The conversations need to happen. And I remember,
for me, I've got five brothers and sisters and we're all for different months
from the Caribbean. Hey. Hey, And one thing we always salute our
dad for. He made a lot of mistakes, but one thing he did
very right is that he used to come and get us. So we're all
in different houses, we're all growing up differently, but on the weekends,
just for church and for Sunday, he would come and get us all and
we would overnight at his house and that established the connection that we take even
today and we've built on. Had we not had that, we would have
lived separate lives and maybe never been as close as we are now. And
when he came for us, it was the conversations we had with each other
and with him. Yes, I know I made a mistake. I know
I didn't do the right way. Maybe if I had to do all over
again, I'll do it differently. But I love you all and etcetera,
and etcetera, etcetera. And those are the moments that I remember even now
fondly because the foundation I think was set there for the relationship that we have
now. And when we're talking about step sisters and step brothers, I think
that's crucial conversation. This is what's happening now, this is a new dynamic.
These are the rules, these are the you know, this is how
it will be. This is the respect that you need to give to her
and to him and all that kind of stuff. Conversation is key, and
it's it's it's coming out in this conversation that we're having now how crucial and
how important it is. I mean, I'm going to go to our siblings
next because I want to know how they resolve and one of the conflicts that
you've faced over the years, if you care to tell us and how you've
navigated them. Um Angela, Sam, welcome back. Do you do you
want to take it from here? Yeah, I'm trying to think actually,
I think actually major really major conflicts. I mean, what I would say
is kind of what I touched on earlier around like as we were younger,
we used to kind of fight and so I remember. What I remember is
that when Angela moved out, we weren't talking as much. I think,
you know, once I came to London, it's like we kind of because,
yeah, you were just doing your thing. You you know, obviously
had moved away and there was that kind of dynamic and I was just at
home doing my thing. So I guess there was a little bit of kind
of separation. I wouldn't say it was like a major conflict, and I
don't think, thankfully, we've had to navigate something so dramatic where you know,
we weren't talking for a very long period of time and things like that.
Usually we can just kind of, you know, argue it out a
little bit, even like now you know where I like did You'll call me
out on something and I'll call her out and stuff. But then that's it.
There's no kind of of you know, grudge and holding onto it for
a long time kind of thing, which is you know, blessing because you
know, I know that there are some siblings that just don't talk, just
kind of talk because they just have that kind of you know, unfortunately unhealthy
relationship. Yeah, and I think, you know, if we are we
have disagreements. I don't think that's necessarily because they don't get to anything physical
or anything like that. But I think if we have a bit of an
argument and I'm a sort of temperament who I might get really angry, I
fizzle, I sort of you know, I may go from not to one
hundred as I sort of fizzle back down very very quickly. So we might
argue, words are said, and then I don't know, two minutes later,
it's all fine again, you know, so really nothing that's serious.
And I kind of just think maybe that's something developed over the years in the
sense of actually even if you are having a disagreement, meant to the case
of walking away to both as a calm down and then can kind of address
it. And usually actually I think probably both of us probably laugh at each
other in the sense of the way we might have carried on at the time,
like it just seems so we see the ridiculousness of it, you know,
and whereas I might have got really upset about something, should just be
laughing again and you're just silly and likewise, do you know what I mean?
And I think you know from that it takes away maybe the harshness of
what could have been. And sometimes you know, we like we say,
we call each other out on things. Sometimes things need to be said and
that can be difficult to listen to. But I guess as you get older
you appreciate that because somebody's looking out for you. Development they don't need you
actually needs me any harm in that respect and vice versus. So. But
yeah, thankfully we've never really had any major disagreements. I mean, then
we've got very different personalities, and there are things that are probably driving me
mad. That's probably feels driver is mad about each other, but you know
we can we can resolve them because nothing that's seriously because I think the reality
is, you know, life shows us that life, you know, the
last few years benthic shared as a life is so short, such a value.
You know, people that you love around you, you know, and
again I appreciate this isn't always the same for everybody eat you know, but
when you have got good relations with people, and if it's your family,
you know, you keep them close. You just don't know what will happens
tomorrow. I think I said earlier about you Tube as well, when you
were talking, I was watching you and for me, it's a lot to
do. If your parents allowed you guys to get on. I think what
you show what I see it with you two, your parents left you to
do it, deal with it. They didn't get involved. You had to
negotiate, and it was kind of like you had each other. At the
end of the day, you knew you just had each other. That's what
I'm getting when I'm hearing you talking. So yes, you you had your
arguments. At the end of the day, it was just an argument.
That's my sister. That's my sister, which I think is to it all
as well. And I guess that's similar to my family. We had a
similar we will my sister and myself. There's two girls and boys. My
so I was the eldest one and I idolized her and I felt she was
a blue eyed child and she was looking at me, what are you talking
about? Because she was always with mum. But she didn't want to be
with mum, you know, So again we have to look at that in
families. My sister was the eldest in the kitchen. She mum was getting
shop, but she took my sister. I was ramping with the boys.
John wanted to ramp with the boys. But she could have. But I
thought, oh, she was so ladylike and I was never ladylike. And
I guess, and you're similar with yours that you know once this way you
said very different one. Maybe ladies like one may not be and you see
it and at the time it's like what is going on? And you might
think one thing and the other is thinking something different. So my sister and
I growing up, we didn't have no bigger fallout, but I know as
adults now because when I said, yeah, well you at Mum's funeral and
I did my talking, I said, and my sister was a blue wiled
child. She looked at me and she said, what do you mean?
I was a blue wife. And it was not until then that I didn't
realize that she did see herself how I saw her. I thought she was
Moneth's favorite. She didn't say it, and she didn't think that. Always
the talking, and I guess it's very difficult for some Manthor and Andrew they're
sitting together, they're really not going to say really and truly, And again
they've pushed it down. They've pushed it down because they've let adults to get
on with it. We've only got each other at the end of the day,
We're gonna do this together, you know. And it always ends up
that it comes out somewhere. It might be a funeral and we don't know
it. Could you think, well, why don't they talk or why don't
they They might not even know themselves have that conversation you're saying, because and
it will come out, Oh, I didn't know you saw it like that.
That's yeah, that's very true. But you know, at the same
time, I sometimes think they're probably are things. I think actually, sometimes
you just weigh up a situation and sometimes you have to really think, actually,
it's like this my issue is my issue, and I just need to
get over it. If it was something really you know, it's really pressing,
I'd like to think I'd like to be able to talk to my sister
about this, talk to a month about it. Um, I'm sure they
could probably use things. But you know, at the same time, I
just think, yeah, like I said, life's too sure, and I
think, you know, you have to really just see what's going to be
important to enable your relationship to go forward. If there is if there is
something that's going to be a challenge. Yes, address it. You know,
I'd like to think rather was enough to do that. Yeah, I
don't think of anything. Yeah, I mean is keep the real going after?
Um? What are your thoughts on this? What? What? What
keeps you close? What divided you in the past? How have you gotten
past it? And this might be a good point to interject, Um,
you know, how has your faith paid a part in your relationship? Well,
I've got a story. I can't really remember six sorry me kent of
time I'm thinking about. People say, no, I don't. I can't
recall as adults us having any major confidence Andrew. I have one. But
I do remember a particular story when we were younger. I was I was
really like seven years old and they maybe eight and Andre Andrew carried brought over
a friend that was a girl that as a kid, I had a very
slight crush on her when when he bought her over, but I felt like
Andrew was using me as his as his butler, right, so when he
needed water, he would send me in the kitchen get him some water.
At one point I just shook my kiss my teeth or stoops as it were,
and walked off. I think I drink. A little bit embarrassed with
that because I did it in front of his you know, his friend.
I was a girl, um, and he came after me. He gave
me a little pinch and it started to cry. But in the end the
girl came to comfort me. So I believe that I probably won anyway.
But that's the only major comfort I could remember as a child. It was
unfair that Andrea was older. He had an advantage, was bigger than me,
could if you wanted to throw me across the room. So we didn't
really have much arguments except for the fact that I was probably a little annoying
as a kid because I always wanted to be around him. But as adults,
I can't really think of anything else except for the fact that my parents
never really showed their arguments in front of us, so we would probably sense
a little tension, but they would do the resolutions behind doors. Whether that
was a good thing or a bad thing, I'm not sure, but it
resonated a little bit bit of s where we were never very We would never
voice or issues right away. It would more like suppressive, if anything,
to avoid comfort um, and rather than fighting, we more have a conversation
about things, disagreements here and there, yes, but it never escalated to
the point where we want to talk to each other for weeks or months or
so. But that's what I can think of. Andrew. Did you see
it the same way? Did you? Yeah? Pretty much? I mean,
like girls have, you've never experienced our appearance, having a full blown
argument in front of us. You've never been It needs to raise voices and
harsh words. That's just not part of what we grew up with um,
so we never We're never accustomed to that kind of conflict and between us again,
partly because of the a difference, most likely not really much conflict growing
up as adults. The only conflict I can think of was not between us
directly, but more our partners. We both married similar type women, very
strong headed, very stubborn, and we had conflicts partly because of clashes between
them, and that then impacted us, and both of us kind of trying
to be mediators, trying to calm things down to our hot headed wives,
which then caused us to have some distance between us. But direct conflicts between
us between us, not really. There were there were times where there was
a situation where my action was misunderstood by real For example, if realism might
be sharing this was when he chose his wife, and you're planning the marriage
and whatnot, and we spoke about it, and I was trying to give
advice in terms of, Okay, maybe you can push back the date and
get a few more things in place so that you can already for this next
step. And that was misunderstood partly by him and him party by his wife,
as well as me not agreeing with the relationship, not want them to
get married, whereas I was not the case. I was just trying to
give advice to give anyone you know, probably better to do such and such
first, and then if it means pushing back date, then push them back.
I mean, it's not going to stop you from getting married and you've
chosen. It's just just taking a bit more time. But not conflicts I
can think of beyond those those situations. Wow, I've got some really strong
relationships here, good relationships. But before I close, let me, just
because we've got only a few minutes, let me then ask Dorothy and Kelly,
what would you say then to those of us who may have difficulties in
our sibling relationship, who have fallen out and have not spoken for years,
who have come to fist fights and blows, and maybe restraining orders are involved,
et cetera. I mean the extremities. And for those who maybe have
lost siblings and there are difficulties there that need to be resolved. I mean,
perhaps too much to siblings. Three. I can see it coming,
but we have a few minutes. Let's use it wisely, and just to
talk to those who may be struggling in their own relationships. Really, I
would it's about understanding how you feel, how you feel about the relationship and
what's happened, to be able to verbalize the feelings and to see if there's
a possibility of having a conversation, but be with the intention of trying to
understand the other person's perspective so that you can then understand where maybe there might
have been a misunderstanding. It may mean that having a completely outside person to
help mediate the conversation, because sometimes can be a bit too explosive to be
able to manage that within the sibling group. So if there's a third person,
that third person that can come in and help to manage. Okay,
you speak when you're holding the orange, you speak you listen okay, and
then you know, being able to reflect and refrain back what the other,
what each person has said, to see if there can then be some sort
of result. Very quickly, I'll just say it's okay, it happens.
Life happens. I believe that God allows us to be born into the families
with the personalities that are there for a reason. And I always if you
can make it out with your siblings and your parents, you'll be able to
work out in life because those people in your families, they're only representing people
that you're going to meet up with in your life. Absolutely, so reach
out, get help if you can. It's not the end of the day.
Learn from it. Well said, I'm going to actually share our cornerstone
details shortly, and also if anybody wants to get in touch with these lovely
ladies, then they can reach out to us when Adventice Radio London and we'll
pass on details. Final words as a way about two minutes after from Angie
and then the final word from Pedro with a prayer, and then we'll say
goodbye. I guess I would say we're doing this shows a part two,
but we're looking at you know, Siblings Day and this a couple of days
time, his brother and sister's day, and it was inspired by a woman
who realized how little he expressed her love and admiration for her brother before he
died. And the reality is life is short, and as Dorothy says,
God has blessed us with siblings and put us into families with alation ships if
we have them, and you know, we should try and remain connected,
bond, enjoy, fixed, resolve whatever it is with those if you know
that's to be and you know, aim to be a blessed into each other.
I was in a communication is key to that. I relation would God
is ultimately key to that as well, so I would encourage that did go
forward. Thanks Petro. Any final words and then you can really I was
just um piggybacking on what Andre and um we Ell said about with their wives
are hard headed. Um, my wife is hard headed too, as you
guys know. I when she had argument she's not on this time, but
because she was a feeling well, but when she's had an arguments with her
sister, I tended to remove myself from the situation and kind of like let
them work it out themselves. As siblings. UM, I would not UM.
I would give you know, like advice, but I would never like
UM, I would just try to get my wife to see her sister side
because a lot of times when they got into the argument, my wife is
on one side where she's like, you know, this is what's going on,
and I'm like, have you looked at what your sister's feeling and try
to encourage it. I kind of went that way. I was never UM.
I was never the type to be like, um, you know,
trying to put a wedge between them, because if I if I put a
wedge between them, then I ended up getting blamed. Then it'll be my
fault that they're not talking. So I just always rant the opposite way in
that way. That's just me personally. UM. It's not easy to do
sometimes because then the wife would get mad at me. Now she's mad at
me, but hey, I you know, it's it's fine. We can
work it out. You know, we can communicate and conversate and work it
out. They should understand where I'm coming from that. I was just thinking
about that when they was talking about, you know, about how that made
that caused them a little bit of grief. Throughout their you know, adult
relationship, communication and compromise. Yep, I said, right, can you
just close the side with a prayer and then we'll wrap it up all righty
fo, We don't think all for joining us today. We thank you Lord
for allowing us to have this conversation about siblings, conflict and resolution and understanding
each other and loving each other and compromise. We ask a Lord that you
will be a physicist we go forward throughout this week, everybody listening and everybody
on the panel, that we all have a good week and that we can
better ourselves through this conversation with our siblings and with each other. And we
just want to say thank you Lord for your loving, your mercy, and
you have a lasting grace for this uppering your Holy name. Amen. Amen,
Amen. Well, we're trying to spend as usual, but I want
to say thank you for everyone's contribution. Thank you for joining us, taking
the time out of your busy schedules, out of your sabbath afternoons to be
with us. I hope you will come again. I'm already plugging another show.
What it will be about, we don't know, but it's really good
having you on board and I certainly look forward to talking to you again.
Until next m I want to say good night from myself, Zenia, and
from Man and Pedro and from the rest of the panel. God bless you
and take absolute care. By way Adventist Radio, London inspiration for the song