WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.439 --> 00:00:13.560 It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio. Welcome to 2 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:17.760 Maria's MutS and Stuff and with me. I'm so very very thrilled. Today 3 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:23.079 is doctor Sarah Brown, who is the author of the Hidden Language of Cats, 4 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:29.000 How They Have Us at Meow, so clever title, such a delightful 5 00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:32.200 book. I'm so happy to chat with you about I love this book. 6 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:36.119 By the way, Thank you so much, Thank you so much for inviting 7 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:41.159 me. Absolutely so, how did this all begin? What made you decide? 8 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:44.840 I would assume you love cats. I know you love cats, and 9 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:49.600 is that why you decided to write this book? Yeah? So I do 10 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:52.759 love cats, and I've worked with them for many, many years, over 11 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:57.240 thirty years. And the reason I decided to write this book was that over 12 00:00:57.280 --> 00:01:03.600 those years, I've so often heard cats describe as cool or aloof or uncommunicative, 13 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:07.480 especially when people are comparing them to dogs. Sure, and so I 14 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:11.079 always thought that was a little bit harsh, because cats actually have quite a 15 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:15.200 lot to say for themselves. They just have a different, more subtle style 16 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:19.519 of communication people and to dogs. And so we just have to look a 17 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:23.799 bit closer and work a bit harder to understand what they're trying to say. 18 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:27.120 So I decided to gather up all we know about the different ways in which 19 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:32.400 they communicate, all the amazing science out there that's been done, and put 20 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.599 it all together in a book so that to encourage people to take a closer 21 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.359 look at their cats in their lives and to think about what the cats are 22 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:42.079 seeing and smelling and hearing, and how best to interact with them. So 23 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:47.120 that's kind of the synopsis of the book. Yes, yeah, and that 24 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:52.319 makes sense because I'm sure for someone who has a cat, if you understand 25 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:56.079 the body language and all the different things, because you know, animals do 26 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:00.159 give us clues just because we don't speak they don't speak English if you pay 27 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:02.879 attention, right, So I mean, actually, this is like, it's 28 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:07.159 an excellent It's like a guide for anyone who wants to understand their cat or 29 00:02:07.199 --> 00:02:13.639 a cat better. So you just mentioned how they're very different than dogs, 30 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:19.159 and I know you know some you just know whether a dog is wagging its 31 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:24.000 tail or if a dog is barking or growling. Are there any similarities that 32 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:28.960 a cat will do that a dog will do? If that makes sense? 33 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:36.080 So I suppose there are some similarities. So both species are very very conscious 34 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.879 of scent, that's sort of they go to methods of communication, so they're 35 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:45.680 both very tuned into that. But I think there's probably a lot of differences, 36 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:50.039 like you say already, so like, for example, you know, 37 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:53.319 when a cat wags its tail, it's not a good sign, not a 38 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:55.439 happy sign, whereas when a dog wags its tail, sure, the complete 39 00:02:55.439 --> 00:03:00.000 opposite. It's usually pleased to see you. And so but what's interesting, 40 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:02.800 stingers is the study done that the cats and dogs living together quite often learn 41 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.280 that that that means the opposite signal in the opposite species. So you know, 42 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:15.599 a dog will learn that a cat waiting its tail is not in and 43 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:19.080 also things like sniffing when when a dog sniffs another dog, they like to 44 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:23.000 sniff the rear edg whereas cats quite often will approach each other's nose to nose 45 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:27.919 a thing called touch noses and sniff each other's nose. And so a dog 46 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:30.960 living with a cat has to also learn to, you know, do the 47 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:35.919 more polite cat approach. Interesting, yeah, and I didn't realize that that's 48 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.520 right, and so they I guess know, but I guess for just like 49 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:45.879 a dog will know it's human habits, cats will do the same thing. 50 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.759 So I guess that that enables the cat to learn what the dog is signaling, 51 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.719 and the dog to learn what the cat is signaling. It's mind bar 52 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:55.439 exactly right. Yeah, that are so clever. They watch us and they 53 00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:00.199 learn and they you know, they learn, you know, how to to 54 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.439 get our attention. M yeah, yeah, and they're very smart about it, 55 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:09.520 right, there's yes, they're very smart. No, it's true. 56 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:14.960 So was there anything I mean, because I know, being around cats and 57 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.399 loving cats like you do doing the research for the book, was there anything 58 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:25.560 that that even surprised you that you didn't realize about a cat or that or 59 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:30.439 you know everything, many things. I mean, However, a long you've 60 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.560 worked with cats, you're always learning new something, especially with all the scientific 61 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:36.360 studies coming out all the time. So reading some of them, you know, 62 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:40.800 I learned new things that you know, made me go wow. So 63 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:46.959 for example, you know, we know that meows are mainly directed towards humans 64 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:51.319 rather than rather than other cats by cats. And I also knew that cats 65 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:58.720 meows were more higher pitched domestic cats and more higher pitched than their ancestral species, 66 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:01.319 the African wildcat. But what it didn't realize was this pitch, this 67 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:05.560 higher pitch, is almost exactly the same as the pitch of a human baby's 68 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:10.639 cry, which, as we all know, is incredibly hard to ignore. 69 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:15.160 So I feel like it's amazing somehow they've worked out that the actual pitch of 70 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:18.560 the meow is best, you know, at that level, that's the best 71 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.800 way to get our attention. Interesting, you know, try and pretend you're 72 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:29.680 a baby, right, and that will get the humans attention. It will 73 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:32.839 every time, right. Wow. And Also the other interesting thing I've found, 74 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:35.480 which which I was sort of aware of, and I think most people 75 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:40.079 are aware of, is how we pitch our voices back to the cats. 76 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:46.279 We talk in this high pitched, you know, baby talk voice and which 77 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.879 we call mother ease. And this study study done quite recently, showed that 78 00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:56.759 when listening to their owner's, cats can tell the difference between this speech directed 79 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:00.279 at them. This mother is till between that speech and the speech directed to 80 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:05.160 other humans. So speaking to another human, they know that they're not talking 81 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:09.720 to them, but when we suddenly put on our baby voice, they pay 82 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:14.000 attention. Well that, you know, that's really fascinating to me, because 83 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:16.360 you know, you said it earlier how people always think that cats are so 84 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:21.680 cool and aloof but they probably it's probably because they're smarter than dogs. And 85 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:26.279 I think because they realize, oh, the humans not talking to me, 86 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:30.920 so I don't have to pay attention where a dog always I think, you 87 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.720 know, because you use like the high pitched baby voice around dogs too. 88 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:40.519 But I think dogs just always think that you're paying attention to them. I 89 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.600 think they Yeah, we have a different relationship a lot of the time with 90 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:46.360 our dogs, which is partly, like I said, like why I wrote 91 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:50.120 the book because I want people to notice their cats. Sure what the cats 92 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:57.000 are trying to say? That's fascinating, fascinating to me. So I know 93 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:02.439 when I read your book, you're there's a whole section about alo rubbing and 94 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:05.839 alo grooming, which I had never heard about before. Like, I never 95 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:10.439 really knew what that was. Let's talk a little bit about that for you 96 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:14.160 know the listeners right now who are like, what is that? Yes? 97 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:17.560 So, so ala groomy is basically when one cat grooms another cat, which 98 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:23.199 which people might have an image in their mind of two cats curled up together 99 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:28.680 grooming each other. And it's a very tactile you know, very close you 100 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:33.000 know experience, so it tends to be a very bonding behavior. And then 101 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:38.639 rubbing is a similar behavior which I've watched a lot in the colonies that I've 102 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:43.680 studied, where they were they when maybe a cat's come back from being away 103 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:46.000 for a while, and they might greet each other and they rub their heads 104 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.519 together or alongside another cat, you know, they might rub their bodies and 105 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:54.199 their tails together. And they they do that to us too, as you 106 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:56.519 know, where they come up to us with their tails up and they rub 107 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:59.800 around our legs. It's exactly the same behavior as they use on another cat. 108 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:03.759 And yeah, talk about this in the book. It's all about the 109 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:09.360 sort of tactile experience sort of mixed in with the scent depositing experience. And 110 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:13.680 somewhere, you know, how do those two things you know happen when they 111 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.399 when they rub either on another cat or on us or on an object, 112 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:22.040 right, yeah, and it's yeah, and it's to leave to leave their 113 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:28.000 scent, correct, to leave their scent, but also to is a theory 114 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.960 that actually the actual tactile experience itself is very important for social bondings. So 115 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:35.840 cats, you know, we'll rub on each other, you know, when 116 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.559 they're doing that there, you know, it's difficult to know whose scent is 117 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.200 going on. Whose is it? Are they mixing sense, so we don't 118 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.480 really know what the actual scent process is. But but that actually perhaps just 119 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:52.000 actually touching another cat, like when we pet our cats, it's an enjoyable 120 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:58.559 experience. It's a similar action to when we might stroke someone's arm, which 121 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.240 is you know, which is sooth sure like comfort? Yeah, yeah, 122 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:05.240 yeah, a comfort thing, and that creates you know a sort of chemical 123 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:09.600 reaction in the brain which makes you feel good. Sure. So yeah, 124 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:15.679 the tactile experience is very important in both grooming and rubbing. Wow, it's 125 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:18.480 fascinating, you know. I mean, these are just all the little things 126 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.000 that I'm sure most cat owners don't realize or you know, unless they've done 127 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:26.600 lots of homework and read lots of books. But I think it's all it's 128 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:31.039 just it's fascinating. But it's also so educational because it will help anyone understand 129 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:35.879 their cat better. I hope, so, yes, I hope that you 130 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.159 know when you're when you're petting your cat, we all know it feels nice. 131 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:41.559 Hopefully the cat's enjoying it too, But it's sometimes nice to think about, 132 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.919 well, what's actually what's actually going on here? You know, who's 133 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:50.480 getting what out of this interaction? Right? Right? And also when when 134 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:54.879 perhaps you know you should end that interaction, if perhaps the cat's had enough, 135 00:09:54.919 --> 00:10:00.360 and that that that petting has stopped feeling nice for the cat, And 136 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.720 to notice the signals so that you know that you finish that interaction before, 137 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.279 right before it's enough, right, And how would you know, like what 138 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:11.639 signal would the cat give that's to say, okay, enough to stop touching 139 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:15.960 me, I need to go away. Yeah, So depending on this, 140 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:18.720 depending on situations. So I say, if they're just rubbing around your legs 141 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.320 and you're petting them, they might they might stop running rubbing around your legs. 142 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.399 They might move away, so they don't you know, they don't actually 143 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:28.440 want to be near you anymore, which is an obvious sign. But they 144 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:33.320 might start to thrash their tail, you know, swish their tail a bit, 145 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:39.360 just looking slightly annoyed. Or sometimes they sit and just groom, which 146 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.200 is a sort of displacement behavior we call it when they when they just don't 147 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.960 really know how to show you they don't want to do what you're doing anymore 148 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:50.240 right, or just do this instead, so that that's another signal. And 149 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.799 obviously sometimes if they're sitting on your lap, they can just leave right, 150 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.639 which is sort of I mean, yeah, yeah, dogs do that too 151 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.600 when they've had enough walk away, which I think sometimes people don't realize that, 152 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:09.320 especially with dogs and both dogs and cats around children where you'll see a 153 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.000 child, because I think children are always so fascinated by cats and dogs or 154 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:18.639 kittens and puppies and petting them. And then if the pet you know, 155 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.600 the animal moves away, usually the instinct of a child is to then go 156 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.480 after it. Well, no, I want to still pet you, which 157 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.080 is probably something that parents need to be aware of, like no, no, 158 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.279 no, leave the cat, leave the dog alone, yes, no, 159 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:35.240 When to finish the interaction, I think it's very important for people to 160 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:41.960 learn and also starting the interaction. A study shown that the interactions between human 161 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.960 and cats last a lot longer if you let the cats start the conversation, 162 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:50.679 so you know it's okay to speak to it and encourage it to come towards 163 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:54.440 you, and then if it looks interested, offer it a hand sniff, 164 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.240 but then give the cat lots of time to sniff the hand and see if 165 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.639 it wants to interact more. Sometimes just walk away when they've sniffed your hand, 166 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:03.120 and that's and that's all they to pursue it, right, that's all 167 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.080 they wanted, right right. So but sometimes yeah, but if they if 168 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.360 they are keen, they'll they'll round you and you can pet its head. 169 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.799 And that's another thing to be careful of which part of the body or pettings 170 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.320 they like to be petted around their head, the chin, the ears, 171 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:24.039 rather than the tail end and the belly. So yeah, all these things 172 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.559 are important aspects of an interaction with a cat that perhaps we don't really think 173 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:33.279 about. But some people they're obvious, but maybe not always not to everyone, 174 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:37.799 And that's where your book is very helpful, I think, hopefully not 175 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.200 seriously, because I mean, yes, I mean obviously the worst is if 176 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:45.679 a dog doesn't want to be petted anymore, it might it probably would growl 177 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.879 before it bites you. But I would say with a cat, would it 178 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:54.080 make It would probably make a noise or just scratch you if like leave me 179 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:58.240 alone. Times they scratch, yeah, yeah, sometimes they scratch or sometimes 180 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.159 there's a there's a sort of and called petting and biting syndrome, which some 181 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.720 people might be familiar with, where they may be sitting on your lap and 182 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:07.759 you're petting them and you're maybe a bit distracted, you know, watching the 183 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.519 TV or just not really looking what you're doing, and you don't notice the 184 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:16.600 size that the cats had enough, and often they'll just literally just bite right, 185 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.679 not always hard, but just maybe a little warning nip and you think, 186 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.639 gosh, where did that come from? And that's just okay, I'm 187 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.559 done, I'm done right, And it's really and it's usually human error because 188 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:33.879 you're not paying attention to the cat. Yes, often or sometimes some cats 189 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.120 are actually quite do it quite suddenly, so so the signs are quite subtle, 190 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:41.120 you know, flicking of the tail or so yeah, you have to 191 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:45.759 learn. You have to know your cat. I guess a little bit sure 192 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.960 when it comes to those interactions. But that and that's where your book helps 193 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.159 too, you know, Like I think anyone who either has a cat, 194 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:58.320 or loves cats or wants to learn more about cats, but especially a new 195 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:03.480 cat owner, I think like your book would is so perfect just because you 196 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:09.360 know, it's a living thing that's living with you that you need to love 197 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:11.720 and take care of and the best way to do it. I mean, 198 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:15.080 it's almost like a new parent when they have a baby. They get baby 199 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:16.840 books to learn what to do, and you know, even though it's instinct, 200 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.120 but still there are things that you don't know what to do. And 201 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.639 I think it's the same thing when you have a new cat or a new 202 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.879 dog, you know, a new pet in your home. Yeah. I 203 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.440 think I think just getting inside the mind of a cat helps a lot to 204 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:33.600 know, you know, how they think, they what they experience. You 205 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:35.840 know, they have a very different experience of the world to us. The 206 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.720 vision they're hearing, the scent, it's all different to us, and it's 207 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:46.159 a different language basically, sure, no, for sure. What do you 208 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:50.279 think is the most common myth about cats? I mean, of course we 209 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:54.519 know that everyone's always like, oh, you know, a dog needs you. 210 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:56.799 A cat doesn't need you. You know, my cat would eat me 211 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:03.080 if it was bigger. Those are just what do you think is is one 212 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:09.000 of the like a big common myth or you know that's just not true. 213 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.360 I think I think one of my biggest myths that I like to dispel whenever 214 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.519 I can, is that is that black cats bring bad luck or any of 215 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:22.039 the other old superstitions associated with ya with black cats that have you know, 216 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.320 gathered over the years. Black cats, they have such a hard time getting 217 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:28.360 adopted, that's true. Ones are the shelters, yes, you know, 218 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:33.519 just because of the you know, age old associations with you know which evil 219 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:35.720 and superstition. Yes, oh my cool. Yeah, No, you're you're 220 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:41.960 so right. I think I was trying, you know, sort of get 221 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.840 rid of that one. Boost Yeah, get rid of that one, because 222 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:46.480 no, it's true and she's lovely. No, it's you know, it's 223 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.000 so funny because I have a black dog and it's the same thing. It's 224 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.759 black dogs syndrome, black cat syndrome. They're the least the last to be 225 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.759 adopted and usually if they're in a kill shelter, the first to be euthanized. 226 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:00.360 And it's true with dogs, it's because it's a he's the big scary 227 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.320 dog in a movie, is a Doberman, or it's a black dog. 228 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.759 And cats, Oh, the black cat crossed my path, you know, 229 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.080 like, Okay, who cares, it's a black hat. So yeah, 230 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.399 so I love that you just said that. Let's dispel that. There's you 231 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:19.440 know, black cat's syndrome. It's not true. It's just as loving and 232 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:25.000 beautiful a cat as any cat. Yes, I love them sometimes beautiful, 233 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:27.600 yeah, yeah, oh yeah, it's fairly true. They're like velvety to 234 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:32.279 me. Black cats and black dogs are just so beautiful, you know. 235 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:37.200 And I think also sometimes especially with rescues, and I know they were different. 236 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:40.720 And I've had other guests on talking about like how to take better pictures 237 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:44.559 and stuff, and a lot of times it's people don't know how to take 238 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:48.799 a photo of a black dog or a black hat because you know, they 239 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.840 don't they don't have it on a colorful blanket, or they don't have a 240 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.879 bright bow on it so it stands out. And this way you can take 241 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.600 a better picture and then I'll get adopted. So it's a whole process that 242 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.920 you're helping to. But they said that one of the reasons people, one 243 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.559 of the modern reasons people don't adopt black cats, is because it's hard to 244 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.799 take a photo take a selfie with your black hat, which I think is 245 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.799 so sad. It is sad, it is. Yeah, And there are 246 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:21.319 so many ways that you can take a beautiful photo regardless of what the color 247 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.279 of the cat is exactly or the dog. No, it's very very very 248 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.839 true. So well, I thank you. This is like I really I 249 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:32.000 just thought your book was so delightful. And you know, I know more 250 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:36.319 about dogs, I have to admit, than cats. But for all of 251 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:38.640 my listeners who are who have said to me, you need to do more 252 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:42.799 cat things, you just gave me more cred So I thank you for that 253 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:47.960 because it's also this book. Well, it's true because your book was delightful, 254 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:52.839 but it was very educational to me as well. Just I learned things 255 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.559 that I didn't know. So I'm sure for someone who knows much about cats, 256 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.799 they'll be delight with the book, and for someone like me who didn't 257 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.279 know as much, you'll learn. And you know, knowledge is power. 258 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.319 We all need to know and learn as much as we can. So thank 259 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:12.319 you so much for talking about the hidden language of cats, how they have 260 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:15.799 us at me. Ow. Where can my listeners get the book because I 261 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:22.680 know it came out in October and it's getting all normal book retailers, you 262 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:27.359 know, books, local bookshops online, yeah, all the normal outlets. 263 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:30.880 But yes, I should be able to find it most places, I think, 264 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:33.400 yeah, and it's perfect. So much please, thank you, and 265 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.079 just in time for the holidays. This makes a great holiday gift. The 266 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.680 hidden language, right, yes, so it's perfect. Thank you so, 267 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.960 doctor Sarah Brown, thank you so much for your time and for the book. 268 00:18:45.039 --> 00:19:00.839 Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely thanks, thank you.