WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:34.960 Welcome back to the path when Chili, I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and 2 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:38.439 I'm Ashley. Ashley, we missed you in the past couple of weeks. 3 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:42.600 I'm sure all the listeners did too. Oh, I missed you guys and 4 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:46.280 all of our incredible listeners. Thank you guys for being so patient with me 5 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:50.399 and so supportive of me. As you guys know, I'm a crazy woman 6 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:55.880 in just normal life where I'm jumping from teaching to podcasting with you guys and 7 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:00.399 running the gallery writing children's books. But I've had a lot of mad things 8 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:03.599 happening in my life with my daddy, who has been quite sick, and 9 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:07.599 I appreciate how supportive you guys have been of that, allowing me to put 10 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:11.120 my family first. My kiddos have been struggling, so I've been putting them 11 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:15.079 first, and like I just told Jules before we started recording, like the 12 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:19.680 fact that mental health and making sure everyone's safement taken care of that it comes 13 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:23.799 first, and I'm very grateful that y'all y'all support me on that journey. 14 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:26.840 So we love you ash well. I love you both as well and all 15 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:30.400 of our incredible listeners. So because I've been missing you guys, and I 16 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.239 cannot wait for some more true crime in my life. Let's dive right into 17 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:41.599 this week's case. July twelve, two thousand and seven, Sykesville, Pennsylvania, 18 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:45.400 the fire department shows up at the burning home of thirty three year old 19 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:49.599 Joey Lynn off It. The charred body of her six week old infant, 20 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.280 sun Lex, is found in the bathtub, but Joey herself is nowhere to 21 00:01:53.319 --> 00:02:00.760 be found. Three days later, Joey's abandoned cars discovered over sixty miles away 22 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:05.840 at an apartment complex where she had previously lived. It turns out that no 23 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:09.520 one can confirm having seen Joey in the week prior to her disappearance, and 24 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:14.520 while there is initial speculation that she may have killed her child and gone on 25 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:19.319 the run, no trace of her has ever found after that the path went 26 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:23.479 chilly. So we've got a very odd missing person's case to cover today, 27 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:28.520 the two thousand and seven disappearance of Joey Lynne off It. I first learned 28 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.120 about this story when it was featured on a two twelve episode of the TV 29 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:36.080 show Disappeared. And even though this isn't one of the most well known missing 30 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.960 Persons cases to be featured on that program. It's certainly one of the most 31 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:44.759 bizarre. There are technically two victims in this story, as Joey was discovered 32 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:46.719 to be missing after her house caught on fire in the middle of the night 33 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:51.120 and the remains of her six week old son, Lex were found in the 34 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:55.159 bathtub. Since both Joey and her car had vanished, people initially wondered if 35 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:59.199 she might have been responsible for the death of her child and ran away, 36 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:04.439 as Joy suffered from developmental disabilities and was diagnosed as having the mind of a 37 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.919 fourteen year old, which had a serious effect on her coping skills. However, 38 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:12.800 her vehicle was soon found abandoned, and it seems very unlikely that Joy 39 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:15.159 could have managed to stay out the radar this long if she were alive. 40 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:21.120 An additional complication is that the last confirmed sighting of Joy took place a whole 41 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:23.800 week before the house fire, So could Joey and her son have been dead 42 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:28.520 that entire time, and if they were both murdered, who was responsible. 43 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.560 This is going to be one of those cases where it's very difficult to come 44 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:36.280 up with an airtight theory about what happened, because there are a number of 45 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:40.439 odd details which don't make much sense. This is going to be an interesting 46 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:45.039 one. So when I'm listening to this, one of the things that really 47 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:49.840 stands out to me is that she only has this mental capacity of a fourteen 48 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:53.520 year old. So if you think of one of your children or a fourteen 49 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.919 year old kid that you know who is one raising a child but two, 50 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:01.719 is going to say, what the theory that she stages this and runs away. 51 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.199 If that's the case, look at how sophisticated this must have been. 52 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:10.400 I mean, I'm sure you have details about the fire and how it was 53 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:13.639 set and how long it was burning in those kinds of things. But like 54 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:17.800 y'all said, if she's fourteen in her mental capacity, does she really have 55 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:23.000 the ability to live off the grid on her own or would she eventually need 56 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:28.120 support social services things where she would need to tell her identity, she would 57 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:30.920 need to know, she'd be desperate to get help, like a kid does 58 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.279 once they kind of run out of their own ideas. So I find it 59 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:40.240 quite unlikely at this point, with no more details, that she would have 60 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:45.120 the ability to cover this to this extent to not only kill her child, 61 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:48.920 because that could happen with someone with intellectual disability, but then to burn the 62 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:54.920 house, escape, runaway, and never be located again seems a little bit 63 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.959 of a stretch to me. I mean, it seems like it could have 64 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.160 happened back in two thousand and seven when this originally happened. But this is 65 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:04.600 one of those cases where we don't even have an eyewitness sightings, any mistaken 66 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:10.199 eyewitness sightings of Joey in the years following your disappearance to confirm she's still alive. 67 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:13.079 So it seems very unlikely, like you said, that anyone with that 68 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:19.079 mental capacity could successfully stay hidden for nearly sixteen years. Our story begins in 69 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:25.959 two thousand and seven in Sykesville, Pennsylvania, a small borough located in Jefferson 70 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:30.920 County, which had a population of just over a thousand people. Our central 71 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:34.920 figure is thirty three year old Joey Lynn Offit, who originally hails from Warrenton, 72 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:40.240 Virginia, and has spent the past six months living in a house which 73 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:45.959 was purchased by her mother's Sherry Hallett. Joey suffers from developmental disabilities, as 74 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.000 a psychologist once diagnosed her as having the mind of a fourteen year old. 75 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:54.600 Ever, since her parents divorced at the age of three, Joey always had 76 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.720 issues coping with problems. She was known for being a very sweet, good 77 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:04.040 natured person with an almost childlike innocence, but transitioning into adulthood was not easy 78 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:09.800 for her, as she had trouble holding down jobs and maintaining long term relationships, 79 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:14.480 and often moved around a lot. Joey has three children, including a 80 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.360 nine year old daughter and two year old daughter, the latter of whom was 81 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:23.319 fathered by her on again, off again boyfriend, Alexis Broland Junior, who 82 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:27.879 also had a son of his own from a previous relationship. On June third 83 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:31.959 of this year, Joey gave birth to her first son, Alexis Alfred Broland, 84 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:36.079 the third who would go by the name alex In spite of having two 85 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:42.600 children together, Joey and Alexis often had a rocky relationship. Even though they 86 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.040 had lived together in the past and were hoping to get married at some point 87 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.800 in the future, they were not quite ready to start living together again just 88 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:53.839 yet. This is what prompted Joey's mother, Sherry, to buy her a 89 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:58.120 small house in the quiet community of Sykesville hoping that this would give her daughter 90 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:02.040 the opportunity to settle down as her children. Alexis lived thirty minutes away from 91 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:05.720 Joey in the town of Clearfield, and they both shared custody of their two 92 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:10.759 kids. As July rolled around, Joy wanted to have some time alone with 93 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:14.600 her newborn son, so she made arrangements for her youngest daughter to stay with 94 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:19.319 Alexis while her oldest daughter stayed with Sherry in Virginia. At approximately four am 95 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:24.519 on July the twelfth, many of the residents in Joy's neighborhood were awakened by 96 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.319 a loud explosion. It turned out that Joey's house was in flames, so 97 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:31.839 the fire department was immediately summoned to the scene. The fire consumed a large 98 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:35.879 portion of the residence, but after they extinguished the blaze, the firemen were 99 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:40.560 shocked to discover the charred remains of what appeared to be an infant child in 100 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:46.240 the bathtub. DNA testing would eventually identify him as Joey's son Lex. However, 101 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:49.920 neither Joey nor her vehicle and nineteen ninety four Saturn coop could be found 102 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:55.279 at the scene. So this makes me think one of two things is going 103 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.920 on. One she sends the children to these other locations and in kind of 104 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:05.439 as a precursor to what's going to happen to the youngest, to the newborn, 105 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:09.360 or she's doing what a lot of people feel when they have a new 106 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:13.639 baby, where they're feeling overwhelmed. Remember this is like a fourteen year old 107 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:18.439 child who has three children to take care of, and things like postpartum hormone 108 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:22.519 changes the emotions of not having dad. They're constantly, you know, trying 109 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:24.800 to live on her own. So a lot of times there is that desire 110 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.279 to please, let me catch my breath. I can rock my newborn to 111 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:33.279 sleep, but I can't run after my older two kids. So I think 112 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:35.159 one of those two things could have happened. That she's setting us up to 113 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:41.399 be isolated with Lex because maybe it's too much, or possibly more likely is 114 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:46.679 that she just needs to catch her breath and she's asking for help. That's 115 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:50.360 what I feel like. I mean, she's basically as the mind of a 116 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.000 fourteen year old. To think of the fourteen year old even having just one 117 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.840 infant child to look after, little Lex is a lot, But then when 118 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:03.519 you're adding in two other children, one being two years old, and Ashley, 119 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:05.559 I'm sure you can speak to the terrible twos. I remember my brother 120 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:09.120 and sister going through them, and it was a lot. Like a two 121 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:13.480 year old takes a lot of energy and a lot of mental fortitude to deal 122 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.759 with. And she's doing this all on her own, like her mom's helping 123 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:22.120 her, but in the home it's just Joey. So that's a lot for 124 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.759 any young mum to be handling just by herself with no partner there to help 125 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.320 her exactly. Like, I don't think that she had any premeditated intention of 126 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.440 killing her child while she was alone. I think she just needed some space, 127 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.600 Like this would have been the first time she had time to spend alone 128 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.279 with just Lex because she always had her other children around. So I think 129 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:45.559 she was hoping this would be like a bonding experience for and that she would 130 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:50.720 get used to having her very first son, but then disaster happened. Yeah, 131 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:52.639 that's definitely the way I'm leaning as well, that she says I need 132 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:56.720 that time with just us. And like you said, Jules, oh my 133 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:03.080 gosh, kids in general are always it's a lot to deal with. Magical, 134 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:05.399 but a lot to deal with and so, like I said earlier, 135 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.600 you got to remember too, she's likely struggling with the hormone changes and kind 136 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.600 of the exhaustion that comes with it as well. So if I can just 137 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:18.480 have that quiet in the house, which a newborn does give you that right. 138 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:22.159 And so she very likely was saying, I have my amazing mom who's 139 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.200 going to help with this baby. My other baby gets to spend time with 140 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.720 her dad, and I get to snuggle my little one, and then, 141 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:35.799 like you said, disaster strikes. So in autopsy was performed on legs, 142 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:39.559 and due to the condition of his body, investigators were unable to figure out 143 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.879 his exact cause of death, though they were able to determine he was likely 144 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:48.559 already dead before the fire began. A gas can was found at the house, 145 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.440 and it turned out an accelerant had been used in both the basement and 146 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:58.039 the upstairs bathroom to start the fire, making this a clear cut case of 147 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:03.799 arson. Initially, there was speculation that Joey they had killed her son accidentally 148 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.519 or otherwise, and in a state of panic, she decided to start a 149 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:11.759 fire and burned out the house to cover up the crime. She then subsequently 150 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:16.480 fled the scene in her vehicle and went into hiding. However, while Joey's 151 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:22.200 car keys were missing, her person identification were discovered in the rubble. That's 152 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:26.360 problematic. She's not sophisticated enough. I don't think at this time to say, 153 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:28.639 Okay, I'm going to go on the run. What would make it 154 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.080 look like I've been taken, I've been injured, something happened to me. 155 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:37.080 I'm going to leave my purse and identification and everything here and her car keys. 156 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:43.720 I don't believe she would have the fortitude to actually do that. And 157 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:48.120 you also have this accelerant being poured in the home, the fire being lit. 158 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.559 It just seems more sophisticated than what Joey likely would have been able to 159 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:56.759 concoct on her own. And I think it is a big deal that her 160 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:01.360 car keys are missing. But later we're gonna find her car, so that 161 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.840 makes sense. But then her purse and identification are found in the rubble. 162 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:09.279 We talk about this on almost every case. If I'm leaving, I'm gonna 163 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.720 take my things with me, a couple of things that are important, and 164 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:16.000 here they're not. And like I said, you could stage that. I 165 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.879 just don't think she's sophisticated. Enough to do so, do you think at 166 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.039 the age of fourteen, like I personally could think, Hey, if I 167 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:28.279 had an infant child and something happened to that child where they died, my 168 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:33.080 first phone call would be my mother. It wouldn't be to think to grab 169 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:37.440 an accelerant and set the house on fire. It just doesn't really seem like 170 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.320 it's in line with what would be the thought process of a young mother who 171 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:43.480 seems to have the mental capacity of a fourteen year old. Oh yeah, 172 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.080 I can see her running away in a panic, but I don't see her 173 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:50.279 going to the trouble of actually starting a fire. That's just not something that 174 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:52.960 when you're that age you're going to think of. Well. On July the 175 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:58.440 fifteenth, three days after the fire, Joey Saturn coop would be discovered over 176 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:03.120 sixty miles away and State College, Pennsylvania. It was abandoned in the parking 177 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.960 lot of the Nitney Gardens Apartments, a location where Joey and Alexis had previously 178 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:11.799 lived together in two thousand and three, But there was no sign of Joey 179 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.960 herself, and none of the residents from the apartment complex could recall having seen 180 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:20.360 anyone leave the vehicle there. One resident was positive that he had seen the 181 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.000 Saturn parked in the lot since July the thirteenth, and thought it may have 182 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.399 been there as early as July the twelfth. Joy's family had suspicions that she 183 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.000 did not actually abandon the vehicle herself because it had been neatly backed up into 184 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:37.679 its parking space. Since Joy was not a particularly good driver and didn't like 185 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:41.679 to back into spots, there was skepticism about her being able to park the 186 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:46.759 car so perfectly between the two lines. The driver's seat was also reclined in 187 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:50.399 such a way to suggest that someone larger than Joy, who was only five 188 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.720 foot three, had been behind the wheel. Luminol testing failed to turn up 189 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:58.960 any forensic evidence inside the vehicle which suggested foul play, and fingerprint analysis came 190 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:05.279 up empty as well. Investigators were unable to find any concrete evidence to suggest 191 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:09.519 that Joey was still alive, as she never contacted anyone from her family and 192 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.120 her bank accounts were never touched. Her oldest daughter's birthday happened to take place 193 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:18.440 two weeks after she disappeared, and concern grew when Joying no attempt to contact 194 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:24.080 or creating great fear among her loved ones that she was dead. So many 195 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:28.559 problems with this. We've seen this where when you look inside of a car 196 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.960 and the seat is pushed all the way back, it's reclined further than it 197 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.120 normally is, the steering wheels located in kind of a bizarre position. You 198 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:43.120 can pretty easily tell the little person who normally drives this car was not driving 199 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.799 right that someone much larger had to scoot the seatback, they had to lean 200 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.320 the seatback, they had to raise the steering wheel because they couldn't fit in 201 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:56.200 the settings that Joey would have had. So that is majorly important in this 202 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.720 case. And I have to agree, I don't want a gender stereotype. 203 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:05.480 Typically one US girls are not the greatest fancy drivers, and I never back 204 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:11.600 into a spot. But especially remember she's got an intellectual intellectual disability where she's 205 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:18.080 functioning at fourteen. I doubt she's this highly skilled driver who's going to not 206 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:22.759 only park this car so neatly, but back in while in a state of 207 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:28.720 panic or right after she's done this incredibly large crime. The final thing I 208 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:33.960 want you guys to tell me about is the location. It matters. This 209 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:39.679 was a former apartment complex where she had lived with her boyfriend. That seems 210 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:45.639 too personal to be accidental. I agree, definitely not a coincidence. And 211 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.720 the fact that it was sixty miles away means that whoever took the trouble of 212 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:52.120 driving there with a great distance exactly, it means that it has to be 213 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.600 somebody who has at least some level of familiarity with her. This can't be 214 00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:04.200 some stranger abduction or murder, because how would they then extract that information from 215 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:08.559 Joey. It just doesn't seem likely. But anybody who's close to her, 216 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.840 who had known her within that time period would have known that she lived at 217 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:17.759 that apartment complex. But it justly And when you think that it was sixty 218 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:19.879 miles away, like you said, this was not three miles around them, 219 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:23.200 you know, around the block, a couple, a couple of blocks away. 220 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.360 This is sixty miles. So it was very purposeful, either to possibly 221 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:33.039 stage it to look like Alexis did it or Alexis did it. The case 222 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:40.120 got even more puzzling when investigators attempted to trace Joey's movements prior to her disappearance 223 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:45.559 and discovered that she hadn't actually been seen in a week. The last confirmed 224 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.320 sighting of Joey took place on July fifth, when one of her neighbors walked 225 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:53.759 past her on the sidewalk while she was pushing a stroller. The neighbor claimed 226 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:57.720 that when he said hi to Joey, she didn't even acknowledge him, and 227 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:02.879 also said that he could not recall actually seeing a baby inside her stroller. 228 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.200 After the fire in Joey's house was put out, Samarallah hamburger meat was discovered 229 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.440 on her kitchen counter, which had maggots crawling on it. Test showed that 230 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.880 the meat had probably been sitting there since sometime between July third and fifth. 231 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:21.079 So did this mean that Joey and her son could have been dead for an 232 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:26.640 entire week before the fire took place. While Alexis and Joey's mother, Sherry, 233 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.279 had both attempted to contact her during that week but failed to reach her. 234 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:34.880 Prior to that, Joey, Alexis, and their kids had visited Sherry 235 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:40.720 in Virginia so they could introduce her to baby lex. Joey's nine year old 236 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:45.039 daughter then wound up staying there with Sherry while the others returned home to Pennsylvania. 237 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:49.480 Maggots. That does mean that it was over a week. That meats 238 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:56.119 just sitting there, So this seems it seems wild. And what do you 239 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.880 think to the claim where he says he doesn't even know that he saw a 240 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:03.799 baby in the stroller. A newborn doesn't do much, so unless they're having 241 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:08.000 a fuss, you probably wouldn't notice them. I think it would be more 242 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:11.319 compelling if he said, like, I looked in and there was nothing in 243 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.119 the stroller. You could think, is she having a mental break? Is 244 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.880 she in a state of psychosis? But I don't know that I would read 245 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.279 too much into that piece of evidence. Don't you think you'd go home and 246 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.839 be like to your partner or one of your friends, I just saw that 247 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:30.160 Joey girl. She was pushing a stroller and there's no baby in it. 248 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.960 Isn't that weird? I feel like that's something you would share, somebody pushing 249 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.279 around an empty stroller. But being like, I can't recall a baby, 250 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:44.119 I don't know how much veracity that statement has given the problematic nature of eyewitness 251 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:47.440 statements in general. Oh yeah, I think his memory may have been playing 252 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:51.000 tricks on them. That after he found out that her baby was killed. 253 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.960 He started thinking himself, well, I never saw the baby. Maybe she 254 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:57.039 had a breakdown and was like pushing an empty stroller out of grief because Lex 255 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.680 was already dead. But because he didn't flat out say I saw an empty 256 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:06.319 stroller, I wouldn't put like much racity and say with absolute certainty that the 257 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:10.799 baby was not there. Just think about it, Like when I go and 258 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:14.240 walk Winston in the morning and may walk by like one person with the stroller. 259 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:17.160 You could ask me later on that day if I saw a baby in 260 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.160 the stroller, and unless that baby stood out for some reason or was doing 261 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.200 something, I could say I can't recall seeing a baby. I know there 262 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.480 was a lady pushing a stroller, but that doesn't mean that the baby wasn't 263 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.319 there. It just means that, like, we have so much stimuli that 264 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:36.279 we're taking in when we're outside that we don't necessarily clock every single detail. 265 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:40.839 So I just don't think that we can trust that eyewitness statement. And I 266 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.960 also don't see Joey ignoring her mother. I mean, maybe the ex boyfriend 267 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:47.519 if she's fussing with him, but he has her daughter at the time. 268 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:52.359 So the fact that she does not answer the phone the fact that she's not 269 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.160 responding to her mother is a problem. I mean, I get that she 270 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:59.480 would not respond, let's say, to Alexis if they were fighting, but 271 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:02.920 Alexe has one of her children as well. So the fact that I wouldn't 272 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:06.000 answer the phone to check on my child, and I wouldn't reach out to 273 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:08.920 my mother if I was struggling, those two things don't seem like Joey. 274 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:14.119 Based on what you told me, her mother was helping her live independently, 275 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.880 which is a big deal for someone with an intellectual disability. Her mom was 276 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:22.599 kind of her rock, and so I just don't see her avoiding both of 277 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:26.480 those important people in her life. Question for you, Robin, is there 278 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:33.400 any history that Joey would kind of ignore her mother when times got difficult, 279 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:37.160 because I know when she faced criticism she could shut down. But do we 280 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:41.359 know that she ever ignored her mother. I think that's a possibility, Like 281 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:42.680 I don't want to spoil it, but later on we're going to talk about 282 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:48.039 an incident from Joey's past where her mother tried to take custody, a temporary 283 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:52.119 custody, of her children because she didn't like something that Joy was doing. 284 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.359 So it could be a case where if Joey did something and screwed up, 285 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:59.839 like maybe accidentally caused Lex's death, that she would be too scared to face 286 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:03.480 her again, and so that could provide an explanation for why she ignored her 287 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.799 phone calls if she was still alive at that point. So the last time 288 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.559 Alexis could confirm having seen Joy was at her house on July the third. 289 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.920 According to Alexis, they got into an argument because he did not like the 290 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:19.559 way Joy was giving Alexa bath inside a dirty sink. Due to her developmental 291 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:25.240 issues, Joy could not handle criticism very well and her typical response to a 292 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.200 fight would be to completely shut down and withdraw for a while. So in 293 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:33.359 response to this, Alexis said that he left the house shortly before midnight and 294 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.880 returned to his home in Clearfield in order to give Joy a chance to cool 295 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:41.039 off. The following day, Alexis called Joy numerous times and left several messages, 296 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.400 but she never called him back. Even though they had gotten into a 297 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.440 fight, Alexis was still surprised to not hear from Joy since they had been 298 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:53.240 planning to visit his grandmother together to attend a Fourth of July fireworks display. 299 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.359 On July the fifth, Alexis decided to go back to Joey's house to see 300 00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.240 her, but after knocking on the front door, there was no answer. 301 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.119 Since Alexus did not possess a key to the house, he returned home. 302 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:10.200 Alexis claimed he started to become concerned the following day when he was contacted by 303 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:14.480 a home care nurse. Since Joey was an unemployed single mother, she was 304 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:18.400 entitled to receive state aid, which would involve a nurse from the Home health 305 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:22.480 agency visiting her house at regular intervals to provide care for her son well. 306 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.160 Joey had a scheduled appointment for a house call in July the sixth, but 307 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:30.680 the nurse told Alexis that when she showed up, there was no answer at 308 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.920 the front door, even though Joey saturned Coop was still parked outside. The 309 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:37.880 nurse also said there was mail piled up outside and when she peeked in through 310 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.440 the window, she could see a baby seat and a diaper bag inside the 311 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:45.799 house, which implied that lex should have still been there. A lot of 312 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.200 problems with this when you look at the fact that these people are coming by 313 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.400 her house and no one's getting a response, even though her car is there, 314 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:57.000 She's alone with a baby, she has antellectual disabilities, she has people 315 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.200 who are supposed to be checking on her, she has a home visit that's 316 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:06.119 scheduled. These are major things from state employees and people who care about her. 317 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:11.160 So why weren't the police called for a wellness check and have them opened 318 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.640 the door and see if she's okay. Her car's there, She's supposed to 319 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.400 have a newborn baby there. You know Alexis, I'd love to know more 320 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:25.279 about him. He's in a fight with her the day before and then all 321 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:29.200 of a sudden she won't answer anymore. So yes, she could push him 322 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:33.480 away, Yes she could shut him down. But is that suspicious that Alexis 323 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:37.759 is the last one to see her and has this newborn baby with her. 324 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:42.039 Is it possible Alexis didn't want another child? Do we know much about him 325 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:47.799 as a dad and kind of where he stood with Joey on parenthood? Well, 326 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:49.839 I know they had a rocky relationship, and I haven't heard like any 327 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:55.240 indication at all that Alexis did not want this new child. And he did 328 00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:59.680 some interviews on Disappeared when they cover this case, and he did seem sincerely 329 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.000 broken up in an upset that he had lost his son. And as we're 330 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.240 going to talk about, like, police have heavily checked into Alexis story during 331 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:11.400 this time period and they've never found anything particularly suspicious to think that he might 332 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:14.240 know more than he's telling. But I can see all on the surface, 333 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:18.079 it might seem strange that he doesn't seem more concerned if he even if he 334 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.160 doesn't care that much about Joey, the fact that his newborn son is in 335 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:23.759 the house and he hasn't heard any anything from him in the past couple of 336 00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:29.359 days. Okay, so Alexis. Alexis is young, though, so I 337 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:33.039 can even give him a pass of saying, Okay, your ex girlfriend and 338 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:34.880 you know she's not answering the phone, and you're mad at her a little 339 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:40.200 bit. But what about these state workers, a home nurse, people that 340 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.640 are supposed to be coming to check on the well being of both Joey and 341 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:47.200 her baby? Why did no one call for a wellness check? Why did 342 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:51.359 mom not call for a wellness check? Yeah, the thing about the nurse 343 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.079 is weird because she does come back later on, but she doesn't become concerned 344 00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:00.079 enough to contact the authorities. One thing about Alex this too, is that, 345 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.839 Okay, so the police looked really deeply into him, but we don't 346 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.200 even know when Joey died or when little Lex died. We've got a range 347 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:12.400 of several days given them Meat and the maggots. So if you're checking an 348 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:15.720 alibi, or you checking an alibi for three days, is there not at 349 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.680 some point in time that he could have been responsible for that? And I 350 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:22.039 think both things can be true. I'm not saying he did it, but 351 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:27.079 I'm saying that somebody could have been responsible for what happened to Lex and Joey, 352 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:30.559 and then they also could be sincerely broken up about it. It could 353 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:34.240 have been an accident what happened to Lex, and then what happened to Joey 354 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.960 could have happened sometime thereafter, and then things just got out of hand and 355 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.799 he could be incredibly remorseful. And I'm not at all saying that that's what 356 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.880 happened. I'm just saying, when we have a really wide range of time 357 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:52.160 frames, it's really hard to say that that person one isn't responsible. Yeah, 358 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:56.759 I'm absolutely in agreement with you, Jules. You're saying, look, 359 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.960 there could have been like three to six days where she could have been deceased 360 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:06.039 already or the baby could have already been deceased. So, unless as a 361 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:11.759 potential suspect, which everyone would be, unless a potential suspect can document days 362 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:15.400 where every single hour and minute is accounted for, you do have that question 363 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:19.440 mark. It's very hard to exclude people when you have such little detail. 364 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:26.880 Things got really strange on July seventh, when Alexus returned to Joey's house once 365 00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.400 again, there was no answer at the front door. But the big difference 366 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.160 this time is that her Saturn coop was no longer parked outside. However, 367 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.920 when Alexis went back to the house on July eighth, the car was parked 368 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.799 outside again, even though he could not get any response when he knocked on 369 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:47.920 the front door. After waiting for Joey for over an hour, Alexis decided 370 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.200 to leave a note for her, apologizing for their previous argument and asking her 371 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.319 to call him. In spite of this, Joey still did not answer or 372 00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:00.839 returned repeated phone calls, which were made to her not only by Alexis but 373 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.359 from her mother. On July eleventh, Alexis heard from the nurse from the 374 00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:08.559 home health agency, who told him that Joey was still not answering the door 375 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:14.759 and had missed another scheduled appointment. Alexis decided to meet the nurse at the 376 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.720 house, and they both noticed the mail was still piled up at the front 377 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.039 door. Alexi's child seat and diaper bags also still appeared to be in the 378 00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:27.319 same place as when the nurse peered through the window five days earlier, but 379 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:33.440 in another strange turn of events, Joey's Saturn coop was missing again. Alexis 380 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:38.119 decided to leave one more note informing Joey that if she did not contact him 381 00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:41.920 or the nurse by the following day, he was going to involve the police. 382 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:47.200 While they still did not hear from Joey, so on July twelfth, 383 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:52.200 Alexis finally contacted the Pennsylvania State Police. He was asked to visit the station 384 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.160 in order to file a missing person's report, but while he was there, 385 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:02.039 Alexis learned about the fire which took place at Joey's house earlier that morning. 386 00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:07.519 It's also worth noting that even though Joey's Saturn coop was eventually found in State 387 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.279 College, it had apparently returned to her house at some point after Alexis went 388 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:17.559 there on July eleventh, as witnesses were called seeing it parked outside at approximately 389 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:22.640 three am on July twelfth, one hour before the fire started. This is 390 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.359 just such a wild forensic case when you're thinking about it, because, I 391 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.960 mean, we have evidence that she has been deceased for quite a while. 392 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.640 There's not much of anything we're going to learn from the baby's body. But 393 00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:38.519 Joey clearly has not been functioning in this home. She's not answering the door, 394 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.480 she's not going to any doctor's appointment. She's not allowing any help that 395 00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:45.400 she's going to need. Like, let's be honest, if she has a 396 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.279 home nurse that's coming to check on her and people who come for home visits 397 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:53.480 to support her in independent living, she's going to use those resources as a 398 00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:56.720 new mama, right, She'd probably be craving and waiting for them to come, 399 00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.319 like, hey, I get help for a few minutes, right, 400 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.200 And there's no response. So when you talk about like she could have definitely 401 00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:08.400 isolated away from her mom or from Alexis, I just don't think she'd be 402 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:15.480 isolating away from those people as well. And this car moving around, very 403 00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.000 very Odd's there, it's not there, It comes back. Do you guys 404 00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:23.119 think there was someone who is coming to the crime scene. I think lex 405 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:30.279 probably died far in advance. Then Joey is deceased at some point and someone 406 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.440 is just like existing in her space, using her car, trying to figure 407 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.640 out how they're going to deal with this, And then they drive the car 408 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.240 sixty miles away in park It where they know Alexis and Joey used to live, 409 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.279 which to me is very symbolic, right, it's an important place to 410 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.839 Joey or a big part of her life. It just seems diabolical that someone 411 00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:55.279 could carry on for days with at least a deceased infant, if not a 412 00:29:55.319 --> 00:30:00.839 deceased infant and a mama and no one saw them. No, And think 413 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.640 about this too, people with intellectual disabilities or physical disabilities. There's such targets, 414 00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:10.480 especially intellectual disabilities, such target for people praying on them. You know, 415 00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:15.880 she has multiple kids. I often wonder like do people take advantage of 416 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.079 people who have special needs? And yes, yes they do, and so 417 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:23.920 would Joey being a target because of her intellectual disabilities. But it still seems 418 00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:29.240 so diabolical that you would not just target her once but would continue this kind 419 00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:33.599 of escapade for days with her car, possibly with bodies, seems very risky 420 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.160 and very disturbing. Yeah, the part about the car is just so weird 421 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.960 because the first few sightings on the seventh and the eighth, it's like, 422 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.079 Okay, we only have Alexis's word that the car was missing and then it 423 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:48.240 returned, but we also have a second end to pine and eye witnessed the 424 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:52.720 nurse who was with Alexis and confirmed on the eleventh that the car was not 425 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.559 there yet it returned at a later time. So whoever did this? Why 426 00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:00.960 are they driving her car back and forth so many times? It does feel 427 00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:06.160 like somebody is kind of in a state of like just existing in her space. 428 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:11.799 But also I feel like I agree with you that they're probably panicking and 429 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.160 they've got this mess to clean up. And perhaps if they had Joey's body, 430 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.319 they used her car to move the body. Maybe they then had to 431 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:23.839 clean the car. Maybe they tried to clean her place as well before they 432 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:29.240 decided to set it on fire when that note was left, perhaps the note 433 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.160 was the catalyst or if you believe that Alexis is responsible, then that was 434 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.640 all part of the plans. So it seems like this person was like, 435 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:41.880 Okay, I'm biding my time. But it just feels so protracted, like 436 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:47.119 they could have figured this out within a day, you know, Like I 437 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:51.759 don't understand why you would kind of twiddle your thumbs and wait so long, 438 00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:56.680 be moving around the car so many times. This doesn't seem like a very 439 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:01.839 forensically sophisticated or maybe I'll go out on lim and sate intelligent individual exactly. 440 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:05.839 It's someone who's like spending a week trying to figure out how they're going to 441 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:08.279 cover up this crime. And then I think finally reached the point where it's 442 00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:12.359 like, okay, I'll set fire to everything and hopefully nobody will figure out 443 00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:17.799 what actually happened. So investigators would make some interesting discoveries when they examined Joey's 444 00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:22.960 computer and looked into her Internet activity. Since Joey was known for being a 445 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.920 naive and trusting person who liked to meet people on the internet, there was 446 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.960 speculation that she may have crossed passed with someone who did her harm. In 447 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:35.440 fact, for this reason, Sherry had been granted temporary custody of Joey's children 448 00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:39.119 in the fall of two thousand and six. This arrangement came about after Alexis 449 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:45.039 noticed some disturbing emails on his computer and brought them to Sherry's attention. It 450 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:49.480 turned out that Joey had been corresponding online with a man from California who told 451 00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.839 Joy he was a photographer and eventually said he was interested in using her for 452 00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:59.000 some pornography. Well. Sherry became terrified that Joy was communicating with a sexual 453 00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:04.759 predator at potentially jeopardizing her children's safety, so she notified the authorities and was 454 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:09.200 granted temporary custody of Joey's two daughters. Sherry informed Joy of this news while 455 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:13.880 some sheriff's deputies were at her house, and she did not take this very 456 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.440 well. Joey wound up reacting violently and had to be handcuffed by the police 457 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:22.079 and taken away. After this took place, Joey informed her mother that she 458 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:27.720 had become pregnant with her third child. When she underwent counseling and agreed not 459 00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:31.279 to speak to any more strange men over the internet, Joey finally regained custody 460 00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:37.680 of her kids. This is exactly what I was talking about. Because Joey 461 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:42.440 is a fourteen year old alone. Let's think of that in a mental space. 462 00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:46.160 As a fourteen year old, you're really trying to understand your sexuality. 463 00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:52.440 You're really trying to explore these ideas of people loving you and wanting you and 464 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:58.319 protecting you and you know, really liking you. And so Joey is functioning 465 00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:01.559 like that, the maturity level of a kid who's craving someone to say, 466 00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:06.519 you're beautiful, you're pretty. You know, I could make something out of 467 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.360 you. Joey probably doesn't have a whole lot of that in her life, 468 00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:15.199 and she also probably doesn't have many prospects of, you know, promising jobs, 469 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.760 being told that she's going to be something. And so this person knew 470 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:24.000 that and preyed on that as a predator, which is exactly what her mother 471 00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:29.719 said, and it definitely put her at risk. There's no way of knowing, 472 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.159 just like I don't know what my five daughters are doing all the time 473 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:37.440 on devices, there's no way of knowing who Joey spoke to. There's no 474 00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:43.000 way of knowing who made her these promises, because it's likely, just like 475 00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.920 teenagers do, she put herself out there to an audience she did not know 476 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:52.840 and got feedback that she wanted that quick gratification and feeling beautiful, and then 477 00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:58.639 gets kind of caught up and lost in these kind of relationships and conversations. 478 00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:04.719 And what I was referring to earlier that theoretically, if Joey had accidentally killed 479 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:08.000 Lex, this could provide an explanation for why she wouldn't answer her mother's phone 480 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:12.519 calls or reach out to her, Because we had this previous incident where Sherry 481 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:15.159 took away her children because she thought that they weren't safe with her. So 482 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.599 theoretically, if Joey did something bad again, I could see her wanting to 483 00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:22.719 avoid telling her mother about what she had done. Though we have no proof 484 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:27.199 that this took place, that Joey was the one who was responsible for Alex's 485 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:31.000 death. It turned out the weeks before she went missing, the internet service 486 00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:36.519 in Joey's house was turned off due to non payment, so investigators could not 487 00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:39.719 find anything on her computer to suggest that her Internet activity played a role in 488 00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:46.320 her disappearance. However, there were some interesting revelations about Alexis. In February 489 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:51.800 two thousand and five, Joey joined an Internet group for single mothers and made 490 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.119 five hundred and twenty five posts over the course of the next two and a 491 00:35:54.119 --> 00:36:00.760 half years. She often posted about her rocky relationship with Alexis, claiming that 492 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:05.280 she feared potential physical harm from him for both herself and her children, and 493 00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:09.159 even got a protection from abuse order against Alexis. At one point in two 494 00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:14.719 thousand and six, Joey posted about how Alexis son from a previous relationship, 495 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:19.719 had sexually assaulted her oldest daughter. This led to her daughter being removed from 496 00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:22.559 their home, so Joey had to fight to get her back. However, 497 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:27.960 by March two thousand and seven, Joey started posting that she'd grown a lot 498 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:31.280 more optimistic about the relationship. While she said that she was not ready to 499 00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:37.320 completely trust Alexis, she believed they could work things out and eventually get married. 500 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.679 She also mentioned that Alexis was a felon and a former drug addict, 501 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.920 but that having children had completely changed him. Joey's last official post in the 502 00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:50.920 group took place on June fifth, where she announced the birth of her newborn 503 00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.719 son, alex and she said that she hoped to post photos of him soon. 504 00:36:54.840 --> 00:37:00.719 Let's dissect a little bit of this. We've all joined public groups on 505 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.599 Facebook or something like that, like I'm in a group of moms for a 506 00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:08.440 certain neighborhood, in different kind of academic mom groups things like that, And 507 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:15.079 there are posters who post too much, they overshare, they invite you into 508 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:22.079 a very complicated world. And I often wonder, again, keep in mind, 509 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:24.800 she has a fourteen year old's mentality. I think there can be a 510 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:32.960 lot of manipulation and exaggeration by fourteen year olds because they don't grasp bigger concepts 511 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:37.480 and dynamics and things like that. And if she's lonely and she's not getting 512 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:42.199 a lot of support, if she is kind of craving people to give her 513 00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.920 attention and kind of encourage her as a mama, and you're so great and 514 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:50.639 giving her these compliments, then you can beef up a story to make it 515 00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:54.119 worse. I'm not saying that these things weren't happening, but I think for 516 00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:00.599 teenagers and people who might have mental health issues or things like that going on, 517 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.639 that there is definitely manipulation and stretching the truth. They're making false allegations 518 00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:08.079 to get people to feel pity for you and to feel like, you know, 519 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.440 they need to reach out and support you and boost you as a mother. 520 00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:15.239 Five hundred and twenty five posts over two and a half years. I 521 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:19.679 think I've made like three posts in seven years. You know, it seems 522 00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.239 excessive, and like that's where she goes to get her social support and her 523 00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:28.079 encouragement. I would love to know how much of this we know is true? 524 00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.039 Was there a protection order? Do we know that there had been calls? 525 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:35.159 Did mom know that there was physical abuse? Like? How much is 526 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.920 true? And how much is Joeys saying? I'm getting the reaction I want 527 00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:42.639 people pity me. People are boasting me up, They're saying I'm great, 528 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:47.079 And therefore I go here when I'm feeling lonely and I want to be the 529 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:52.400 center of attention for a few minutes. You get that dopamine boost right where 530 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:54.000 people are telling you you're doing a great job. I mean, this is 531 00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:59.639 before people go to TikTok to get their dopamine or going to mental health professionals 532 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.480 would be, you know, pretty much the norm, especially for somebody like 533 00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:08.039 Joey. And was she seeing any mental health professionals or did she just have 534 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:12.159 the nurse to come and help her Robin and that nurse you're referring to was 535 00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:15.000 actually just there to help her child, So she wasn't really treating Joey for 536 00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:19.599 her mental health. And yeah, I haven't really heard much indication about how 537 00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.679 much. I think she did see a specialist at one point who diagnosed her 538 00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:27.320 with having like the mind of a fourteen year old. So she did see 539 00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.760 get some treatment at some point, but I don't know if she was getting 540 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:34.519 it that thoroughly or that frequently. And I think it was one of those 541 00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:37.599 things that only came about late in life, Like she wasn't getting it when 542 00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:39.880 she was still a teenager. It was just as she got older when people 543 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:44.239 realized there's something different about her. Maybe we should have her checked out by 544 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:51.480 someone. Can we just acknowledge how horrific the idea of her nine year old 545 00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:57.119 daughter being sexually assaulted by Alexis's son, And can you imagine putting that out 546 00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:59.920 there? Jewels like that's something that you need to deal with in a more 547 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.519 private setting. Again, is she putting that out there even if it did 548 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.719 happen for the attention, she's like a fourteen year old, So maybe because 549 00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:13.039 it doesn't sound like she has a lot of a girlfriends around her. Typically, 550 00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:15.639 you know, think we'll just refer to her as being like fourteen, 551 00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.599 right, because that is the way that her mind operates. Typically, you 552 00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.000 would have friends around you who you would share this information with. You wouldn't 553 00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:28.679 share it with a bunch of strangers. So I feel like her mom, 554 00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:32.280 Sherry is a great support to her. Alexis seems to be a good support 555 00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:37.920 at sometimes, but it seems like she really is craving that connection with other 556 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:43.599 people and maybe she isn't able to go out and like make friends in a 557 00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:46.960 typical capacity, and so this is the closest thing. And like you said, 558 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:51.519 Ash, it's almost like put all this information out there to gardner sympathy 559 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:54.280 because that is the only way that she knows to kind of draw people in. 560 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:59.039 Yeah, don't you guys know the friend who's like, can't tell you 561 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:01.880 why, but can prayer request? And you're like, well, what's going 562 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.480 on? Like it was that, you know, can I what? Can 563 00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:07.719 I a fishing? Yeah? Or I'm sick? Oh, it's so bad. 564 00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.679 And they overshare all this medical information and you're like, oh, Lord, 565 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:15.480 have mercy, Like you know, there's always a problem. They always 566 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:17.719 want people to you like they want to click on and see that. Twenty 567 00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:20.840 two people have said like, oh my god, I'm thinking of you, 568 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:23.159 you know, can you can you tell us more? Can we help you 569 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:28.880 in any way? It feels good? And I want to know how much 570 00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:30.800 of this about him, like we said, is true. And did Sherry 571 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:35.280 ever come forward and say like this man was danger russ I did not want 572 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:37.719 him around my daughter or did she know like ah, yeah, they go 573 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:40.840 back and forth, but it's like two teenagers. I'm basically dealing with a 574 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:45.960 young set of parents who seem like teenage kids that fuss and don't get along 575 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.440 sometimes and aren't really mature enough to be carrying out the life that they built 576 00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:52.480 for themselves. Yeah, that's a disclaimer. I want to add, I 577 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:58.559 have no idea this story about Alexis's son abusing Joey's daughter is true. I've 578 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.320 never seen anyone go on the record to confirm it or deny it. But 579 00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:06.960 I've also never seen Joey's family, like her mother say anything bad about Alexis 580 00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:09.440 either, Like they've never flat out and said I saw him abusing Joey. 581 00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:13.599 I saw that his son was trouble and was abusing her. Daughter. And 582 00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:16.320 I'm thinking that if Alexis was really like this, I'd have a feeling that 583 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:21.280 Joey's family would be shouting it from the rooftops and putting their finger at him. 584 00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:23.880 But because I had never seen any confirmation that any of this stuff is 585 00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:27.920 true, I would definitely take it with a grain of salt and feel that 586 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.639 maybe Joy was just like letting loose and making up things for attention in an 587 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:36.719 internet forum. But don't you both think it's a little bit odd that if 588 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:42.119 it was untrue, or if it was fabricated, that Alexis wouldn't refute that, 589 00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:46.679 because that's a pretty big allegation to be lobbying at your child. Well, 590 00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:50.920 I bet this is what happened. I bet she's in this kind of 591 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:55.320 mom group and there's Alexis has no idea what's happening. And again, I 592 00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:58.599 think this would have been a bigger deal, Like Sherry would have said, 593 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:01.159 Alexis has no assist to those children anymore, Like I think there would have 594 00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.920 been a bigger fight to keep him away if these things were true, if 595 00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.760 he was a known drug addict, if he was a felon, if he 596 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:12.800 was allowing his children or part of the process, whereas you know child's sexually 597 00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:19.159 assaulting another kid. I just don't think that could be all true. And 598 00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.760 Sherry's fine that he's raising grand babies with her, right, she's gone forward 599 00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.960 and said my daughter is not doing well taking care of the kids. I 600 00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.159 need help. Surely she would have done the same and said Alexis needs to 601 00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:31.719 be barred from that home. He should not have access to these children. 602 00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:36.960 He is a danger to them. I cannot imagine her letting that happen. 603 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:43.039 So I think this is an a closed group of moms. And like I 604 00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:47.440 said, she's starting small oversharing, getting what she wants, and she keeps 605 00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:52.119 up and upping and upping because well, this time a slap wouldn't matter. 606 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:57.000 So this time I'm going to say that he punched me, and then that 607 00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.480 won't really get the much more attention than I got last time. This time 608 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:02.639 my daughter was sexually assaulted. You know, like, what else can I 609 00:44:02.679 --> 00:44:07.559 do to raise the bar and get more support from these people. I just 610 00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:10.280 mean that, like, once this information was out to the public, people 611 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:15.039 are going to know who Alexis's children are. I would think that given you 612 00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:20.519 know, the stigma with somebody being a sexual predator that you would want to 613 00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.320 refute those claims, Like, I don't think he would have had access to 614 00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:25.880 the information while she was doing it. And I do think it is possible 615 00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:30.920 that she did fabricated or did kind of just build on certain things, especially 616 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:36.159 since we haven't heard from Sherry that there was anything more than just kind of 617 00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.880 a tumultuous relationship, which is typical for any young relationship. I just think 618 00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:45.360 it is strange that Alexus didn't come out and say those things that Joey said 619 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:51.000 in that group, are you know, untrue? Just because it does cast 620 00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:54.159 a bad light on one of his children. Oh that's so true. Sorry, 621 00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:57.199 Jules, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were like, 622 00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:59.719 in that moment, why is he not calling her out? Oh no, 623 00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:00.920 he it's not going to know in that moment. I just meet in 624 00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:05.400 the aftermath. Yeah, for sure. That is interesting because I wonder if 625 00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:07.159 part of it's like, look, she's missing, she's deceased. I don't 626 00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:10.199 want to even go there, like she had special needs. Like I wonder 627 00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:15.000 if he's moved forward. This is not a you know, crazily I don't 628 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.440 know, I don't know, I would I would be screaming from the rooftops, 629 00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.239 although I may not want to bring the attention to my kid as well. 630 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:27.400 So that's a tough one. It makes me think it might be true, 631 00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:32.039 because if it was untrue, I would think Alexis and or his child 632 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:36.320 would want that to be No. But a lot of the disclaimer is that 633 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.239 this information was not shaired on the disappeared episode, So it's not like it 634 00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:43.760 went out in national TV. All the stuff about the Internet post, I 635 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:47.119 think was only published in one article, So it's not like it's common knowledge 636 00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:52.119 out there that Alexis's son was being accused of sexual abuse. It's not like 637 00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.239 it was something that went out on national television. So that could explain why 638 00:45:55.360 --> 00:46:00.679 Alexis has never said anything publicly, because maybe he's worried it a lonely more 639 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:04.639 attention to his son, which he does not want. That makes sense, 640 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.239 Yeah, that does make sense, because if it's not this crazy thing I 641 00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:12.960 need to confront, does calling it out and bringing light to it actually cause 642 00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:15.920 a bigger problem for my son than saying, obviously, you can tell this 643 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:20.960 is fabricated. She was struggling, she was making up all these different lines. 644 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.440 No one's going to take it seriously, and I don't want to put 645 00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:28.440 my son's name in his kind of character out there. Sometimes when people defend 646 00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:30.880 themselves, it actually makes them look worse than when they just stay quiet. 647 00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:36.480 It totally does, and isn't that often the strategy is like, don't respond, 648 00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.400 especially with famous people when they're getting baited. You don't address, You 649 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:44.800 don't respond unless it's absolutely something that you need to and then you eat your 650 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.840 pr team. But you're absolutely right, Ash. If he would have, 651 00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:52.599 like it would have been listed in like one article and he would have kind 652 00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:54.079 of gone in front of a camera and made it a big deal, it 653 00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:59.840 would have just shown a light on him and on his son and on this 654 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.920 situation and this potential sexual assault that happened to her nine year old. So 655 00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:08.320 yeah, I think it probably would have been advantageous for him to just say 656 00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:13.920 nothing given the limited exposure. So, like we just said, we don't 657 00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:19.480 have enough information to know just how truthful Joey's allegations against Alexis were. After 658 00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:22.480 Joy went missing, Alexis was questioned and interviewed by police multiple times, and 659 00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:28.119 he was very cooperative with the investigation. He allowed his computer and phone records 660 00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:31.320 to be checked and no evidence could be uncovered to implicate him and Joy's disappearance. 661 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:36.800 Alexis initially agreed to take a polygraph and said he was told he did 662 00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:39.480 well on the test, but the police later approached him and informed him that 663 00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:43.840 he did not actually pass, so he was asked if he would consent to 664 00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:47.199 a second polygraph. On the advice of his family, Alexis declined to take 665 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:52.679 the test again. Alexis has since got remarried, and while police have never 666 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:55.960 named him as a suspect, he has never been completely eliminated as a suspect 667 00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:00.320 either. Joy's family set up a website of voted to her case at find 668 00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:05.679 Joey dot org and have offered a twenty five thousand dollar reward for information, 669 00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:09.039 and the story would be featured on episodes of America's Most Wanted and Disappeared. 670 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:15.639 Sherry Howett had her daughter legally declared dead in twenty sixteen, and investigators now 671 00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:20.000 seem certain that Joey was the victim of foul play, But even though nearly 672 00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:23.400 sixteen years have passed, the investigation has failed to turn up any solid leads. 673 00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:28.920 So the circumstances of Joey Lynn off it's disappearance as well as the death 674 00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.360 of her infant son remained unclear. So I guess you could say the path 675 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:37.159 went chilly. You know, Jules, you brought this up earlier in the 676 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:43.840 episode, that it's nearly impossible to clear Alexis. It's nearly impossible to clear 677 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.039 Sherry. It'd be impossible with this range of time, when we don't know 678 00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:52.960 the details, when we don't know where she is, when we don't know 679 00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:58.719 what day she disappeared or died. How do you then say I can check 680 00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:04.079 off every potential with you as a suspect and clear you. I don't think 681 00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:07.320 it can happen in this case, which is really hard because if Alexis has 682 00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:10.599 nothing to do with this, he still has not only the death of his 683 00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:15.360 infant son, not only the death or disappearance of Joey, but he also 684 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:20.239 has scrutiny on him, or at least even if it's five percent right or 685 00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:24.000 are a percent, if you don't clear my name, I live with that 686 00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:29.159 kind of shadow over me where somebody still thinks I could have hurt her. 687 00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:35.159 And so there's so much trauma for Alexis. There's also so much trauma for 688 00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:37.840 Sherry. And her family as well. They lose their grand baby, they 689 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:44.079 lose their daughter, and there's this kind of question mark of what happened to 690 00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:47.480 her? Where is she? And especially because she has this intellectual disability. 691 00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:52.960 I can imagine the stories that Sherry concocted in her mind of like people take 692 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:57.960 advantage of her, are potentially being trafficked and being in a human trafficking ring. 693 00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:02.440 You know, those are the kind of people that individuals prey on because 694 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:06.760 they don't have the ability all the time to have the same access, the 695 00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:13.480 same communication, the same wherewithal to get help or to react as quickly as 696 00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:17.360 someone who doesn't struggle with an intellectual disability. So it's such a tragic case 697 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.800 that family does not know where their baby is and they had to bury their 698 00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:27.960 infant grand baby, and so my heart breaks for them. I wish they 699 00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:31.039 could bring Sherry home and lay her to rest next to her son. I 700 00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:36.239 think there would be so much peace and healing in that. But at this 701 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:38.519 point, it seems nearly impossible that we would be able to put the pieces 702 00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:44.639 together to know what happened to her. So this story is a bit reminiscent 703 00:50:44.679 --> 00:50:47.360 of another case I featured on the trail went cold way back on episode number 704 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:53.000 fourteen, which ironically enough, took place in Stroudsburg, another borough in Pennsylvania, 705 00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:57.920 and involved a man named Edward Knapps, who vanished in nineteen sixty two 706 00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:01.679 after his wife an infant dad found dead inside their burning house. It was 707 00:51:01.719 --> 00:51:05.960 initially believed that Maps killed them, and he was listed as one of the 708 00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:08.840 FBI's ten most Wanted Fugitives for a while, but he could not be found. 709 00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:14.280 As a result, there's always been debate about whether Maps actually murdered his 710 00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:17.000 family and started the fire, or if his father in law was actually the 711 00:51:17.079 --> 00:51:22.239 real culprit and disposed of Maps's body in order to frame him for the crime. 712 00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:25.440 Well, we have a fairly similar scenario. In this case, a 713 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:30.840 deceased infant was found inside a burning house and the child's parent went missing, 714 00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:34.960 So there was ambiguity about whether she decided to go on the run because she 715 00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:38.360 was responsible for what happened, or if she was another victim. Of course, 716 00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:42.400 given that there's been no trace of joy Lynn off at at all in 717 00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:46.119 nearly sixteen years, I think there's virtually no chance she's still alive. But 718 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:52.400 the circumstances of what actually happened to her are incredibly murky. This is one 719 00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.440 of those cases where it's very difficult to figure out an airtight theory which makes 720 00:51:55.440 --> 00:52:00.639 one percent complete sense, because nothing really adds up now I know. It's 721 00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:05.280 something of a running joke about how true crime shows often go out of their 722 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:08.559 way to paint the victims in their stories in the best possible light and practically 723 00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:14.280 make them sound like perfect individuals. Well, that's definitely not how Joy lit 724 00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:16.960 off. It was portrayed when her case was featured on Disappeared. Well, 725 00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:21.840 everyone who knew Joy described as a very sweet, good hearted woman. It 726 00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:25.079 sounds like her developmental issues did not always make her the most easy person to 727 00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:29.639 be around, Like we mentioned earlier, even though she was in her early 728 00:52:29.800 --> 00:52:34.280 thirties, a psychologist diagnosed her as having the mind of a fourteen year old, 729 00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:38.280 and during her interview on Disappeared, Joy's mother actually described her as being 730 00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:43.719 mentally handicapped. Well, Joy could certainly function on her own and live a 731 00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:47.000 normal life. The impression I get is that she was stunted and just to 732 00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:52.920 not have the emotional maturity level to handle the real world and maintain any focus. 733 00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:58.000 That's what the problem is. It's this idea that really you're trying to 734 00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:04.400 rationalize and function with a fourteen year old who is building a life as a 735 00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:09.760 very busy adult. Right and so I have three teenagers right now, so 736 00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:15.239 I can tell you that dealing with a fourteen year old or in any range 737 00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:17.840 there, let's say she's really at an eighteen year old level whatever, when 738 00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:22.639 you confront them, when you ask them to be accountable, when you challenge 739 00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:27.880 them, when you don't agree with them. It's not that they're not great 740 00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:30.559 humans, it's not that they're not lovable, but my god, it is. 741 00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:36.920 It is maddening when you try to rationalize and explain like a very common 742 00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:39.119 sense thing, if you do this, this will happen. You know, 743 00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:44.199 if you make this decision, this is who you hurt. It's they don't 744 00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:49.519 have that forward thinking and the ability to really stand in their space and say, 745 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:53.760 if you know, I need to understand the consequences and the complications that 746 00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:59.480 come with my behavior. And so you do have Sharry trying to kind of 747 00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:01.639 reel her in and keeper in line. I guarantee you there was a lot 748 00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:07.880 of headbutting because she's thirty and she's having to be treated like a fourteen year 749 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:12.440 old in many cases, and I will tell you that fourteen year old, 750 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:17.119 as lovable as they are, it would be a big challenge. Joey attended 751 00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:22.719 Shepard University in West Virginia to study journalism, but wound up dropping out after 752 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:27.760 only a year because of poor grades, and after that she had a hard 753 00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:30.559 time holding down a job and pretty much drifted around a lot. And of 754 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:36.199 course, Joey also had a lot of difficulties with relationships, which explains the 755 00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:40.800 strange circumstances of her relationship with Alexis. As you'll recall, they lived together 756 00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:45.880 for a while and had two children together, but then reached the point where 757 00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:49.920 they had to live separately while raising these children. However, they still hoped 758 00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.119 they would be able to get married in the future and become a family. 759 00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:58.000 It sounds like one of Joey's main drawbacks is that she had a particularly hard 760 00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:01.639 time handling criticism. Is if she was angry with someone, she would essentially 761 00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:06.440 act like a child and give them the silent treatment for a while, and 762 00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:09.079 instead of dealing with her problems, Joey seemed to have a tendency to run 763 00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:14.199 away from them or just hope they disappeared on their own if she ignored them 764 00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:19.320 after hearing this, you get the impression that if Joey was somehow responsible for 765 00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.000 the death of her infant son, she could have panicked and ran away in 766 00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:27.159 order to avoid dealing with the consequences. But if that's the case, what 767 00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:34.559 actually happened to her. I definitely think you could see a panicked child trying 768 00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:38.360 to cover their tracks if something happened to the baby, But I don't think 769 00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:45.880 she'd have the ability to do so so successfully for so long without accessing any 770 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:49.719 of her information. Like, think about this, so her remember her credit 771 00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.880 or all of her identity, her purse, that's all left behind. She 772 00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:58.960 never accesses her bank account. This is a teenager on the run. Let's 773 00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:04.840 just say that who just torched their home and we can't find any clues. 774 00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:08.159 It seems I don't know, it just seems too sophisticated. I don't see 775 00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:10.760 her being able to I could see her for a week, I could see 776 00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:15.159 her for two weeks. But think about when you were a kid and you're 777 00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:16.480 like, I'm gonna run away from my parents, right, I'm gonna run 778 00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:21.559 away. Well eventually you're like, shoot, I'm lonely. I need my 779 00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:24.480 mama. I need a good cooked me all right, and you come home 780 00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:27.960 for me. That was like four hours after I ran away. Once I 781 00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:31.480 was really sad. Oh my god, you know I was down the street. 782 00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:35.239 I like parked myself down the street. I'm pretty sure my mom knew 783 00:56:35.239 --> 00:56:37.360 where I was. But like four hours into it, I started crying and 784 00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:39.840 I was like, I want to be home, you know. So I 785 00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:44.199 remember like going and watching my parents to the kitchen window and then be like 786 00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:45.920 shit, I have to walk back in and face this, you know, 787 00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:52.519 But I just can't. As bad as the situation would be, I can't 788 00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:54.760 imagine Joey eventually not getting to the point where she says, my mom will 789 00:56:54.840 --> 00:56:59.559 love me regardless. They've always been there for me. I'm gonna try to 790 00:56:59.559 --> 00:57:02.320 get her to help me and come home. I just don't see it. 791 00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:07.360 I don't think she'd be able to function alone with never using her name, 792 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.000 never using her bank, never using her identity. Just don't think it could 793 00:57:10.039 --> 00:57:15.280 happen. It is possible, although I don't think it's probable that she could 794 00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:20.599 have panicked, ran away and then met with foul play, Like what is 795 00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:23.840 that Gone Girl case? That we did Robin where she was married to the 796 00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:30.519 lawyer and then she was found like states away, buried in the mountains Smith. 797 00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:35.599 Yes, that case right where it seems like she left maybe of her 798 00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:39.119 own accord or you know, that seems to be the case because she had 799 00:57:39.159 --> 00:57:44.440 completely different clothes on. She's found in this different location. Although it's all 800 00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:49.920 very ambiguous and mysterious, but in this case, I just don't think that 801 00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:52.360 that is very probable. But I guess, of course, it's the possibility 802 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:57.559 that she could have ran away panic and then met with some individual who did 803 00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:00.400 her harm, and then that's why she's never been fun But it seems like 804 00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:06.639 the most likely scenario is that she obviously met with foul play and that's why 805 00:58:06.679 --> 00:58:09.159 we've never found her. She just didn't. She wasn't like a CIA operative 806 00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:14.400 or method agent. How would she have been able to disappear herself successfully for 807 00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:19.039 this many years and there's never been any trace of her exactly. So in 808 00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.800 part two we're going to be talking about theories about how she would have been 809 00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:25.440 murdered and who could have been responsible. So yeah, I do think this 810 00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:29.079 is a good time to bring an end to part one, So join us 811 00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:31.800 next week as we present part two of our series on the disappearance of Joey 812 00:58:31.880 --> 00:58:36.360 lynnoff it Robin, Do you want to tell us a little bit about the 813 00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:39.360 Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for 814 00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:45.440 three years now, and we offer the standard bonus features like early ad free 815 00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:50.119 episodes, and I also send out stickers and signed thank you cards to anyone 816 00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:52.679 who signs up with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollar tier 817 00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:59.480 tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases 818 00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:02.400 which are not featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive 819 00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:07.079 to Patreon, and if you join our highest tier tier three, the ten 820 00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:10.840 dollars tier. One of the features we offer is a audio commentary track over 821 00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:15.719 classic episodes of Unsaw Mysteries, where you can download an audio file and then 822 00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:22.320 boot up the original Unsaw Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it 823 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:25.239 with my audio commentary playing in the background, where I just provide trivia and 824 00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:30.000 factoids about the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first 825 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:35.239 episode that I did a commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. 826 00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:38.320 So if you want to download a commentary track in which I make more smartass 827 00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:43.599 remarks about Jewel Kaylor than be sure to join Tier three. So I want 828 00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:45.679 to let you know a little bit about the Jewels and Ashley Patreon, So 829 00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:50.800 there's early ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our Path 830 00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:53.320 Went Chili minis, which are always over an hour, so they're not very 831 00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:57.360 mini, but they're just too short to turn into a series, and we're 832 00:59:57.400 --> 01:00:00.320 really enjoying doing those, so we hope you'll check a those Patreons will link 833 01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:04.679 them in the show notes. So I want to thank you all for listening, 834 01:00:04.760 --> 01:00:07.960 and any chance you have to share us on social media with a friend 835 01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:10.400 or to rate and review is greatly appreciate it. You can email us at 836 01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:15.360 the Pathwin Chili at gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at 837 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:19.159 the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold 838 01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:22.360 trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the 839 01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:24.199 podcast Cold Callers Comedy