What is krack alackin Hardwood Knocks listeners, I am DANF Valley coming at you
with our super duper, ultra awesome deep dive into the twenty twenty two NBA
Finals between the Boston Celtics and the Golden State Warriors. I have tapped Alex
Kungu, who you should all be following on Twitter. He covers and tweets
about the Celtics a lot, but he also covers and tweets about the NBA
at large. A ton two at Kungu Underscore NBA, k U n g
U Underscore NBA. You can find thoughts of his I know that he has
written from time to time. I don't think he's written lately, but at
hup Island you could check that out from some previous works that he's done.
But he's been on this podcast before, does a great job covering the league.
We have a fantastic discussion about philosophy, how the series is going up
way out which watch four things like that. You can all, as always
let me know your thoughts about what you're thinking in our discord. Link is
in the podcast description, or get at me on Twitter at Dan to Valley.
Before we get to the NBA Finals talk, though, I did feel
like it was worth hitting on, uh, some some talking points in the
news, specifically the report that broke basically just before him recording this late at
night. I'm so glad I waited to record this monologue until one thirty in
the morning Eastern time. But Tim McMahon and Adrian Wozerowski report that Quinnstyder's future
with the Jazz Utah Jazz. Excuse me, that's terrible podcasting. Uh.
It indeed remains uncertain though Quinnstyder's future with the With the Utah Jazz, he
has two years left on his contract twenty twenty three twenty twenty four option that
is his, so he effectively has one year left on his deal. The
Jazz are willing to let him coach that out. They're also willing to extend
him. It does also sound like, though, for the reporting from WOA
McMahon, that Snyder, who's recovering from hip surgery since the Jazz lost in
the playoffs to the Dallas Mavericks, is also willing to walk away and then
not coach for a year. He did not express any interest reportedly in pursuing
me any of the open jobs, and currently there's only one right now in
Charlotte. I do wonder if other teams might be foaming at the mouth should
he decide to leave the Jazz. Maybe that's something that happens in the middle
of the season. Who knows. But the only vacancy right now is in
Charlotte. He doesn't appear to be interested. Things seem to be deteriorating in
Utah, though, this does not get out unless there on the you know,
in the red zone of Quinn Snyder leading a leaving. That just it
just to me, the stuff like this just doesn't get out like that.
We had Jake Fisher from Bleacher Report on this podcast earlier in the year,
and he mentioned that there was already a ton of rumblings about Quinn Snyder's future
in Utah. Woji McMahon mentioned philosophical differences. It's not clear publicly what those
are. Is it, you know, the new the new regime under Ryan
Smith. Is it the fact that the organization seems to be extremely worried about
Donovan Mitchell and I think has acted in certain ways as if they need to
placate him behind the scenes through no fault of Donna and Mitchell's own I just
want to make clear he doesn't seem like this super high maintenance superstar from what
we can tell what I know. That's just to throw that out there without
misconceptions. Maybe Quinn Syder is frustrated that they didn't really double down this year
and didn't treat themselves like a contender. Maybe he doesn't. Everything's not copacetic
with Danny Ainge being there is the CEO. There's also just been a lot
of turnover when it comes to upstairs, the suits, whatever you want to
call them, and so that you know this is like no longer the regime
necessarily that Snyder was brought in by by by any means, I don't know
where the Jazz would go from here if you lose Quinn Snyder. There's no
one on the market that's comparable. I do wonder if he leaves, does
it make it more likely that you consider this not a rebuild, because I
really don't think you're trading Donovan Mitchell. With that many guaranteed years left on
his post rookie scale extension, he is under contract for another four years,
the fourth of which is a player option, so three guarantee years. It
would be the Rudy Gobert things. He is four years, including a player
option value, about one hundred and seventy million dollars left on his deal.
Jake Fisher reported that there's growing on rumblings around the league that Utah doesn't know
which way it's going to lean with Rudy Gobert. I think they're inherent issued
are is. You can't trade Rudy Gobert and get better. His salary is
so large. He is such a transcendent defender. But his salary is so
large that this isn't something that you can flip Rudy Gobert and then maybe turn
him into two or three players who elevate your team, because one, you're
losing such a good player. But I do think that teams are going to
view that contract as prohibitive. This is tangentially linked to the other main news
talking point, Jake Fisher reporting that og Naobi grew dissatisfied with his role in
Ronald this season. I did see a tweet on Twitter. I apologize that
I can't even cite it properly, but that OG's touches were sort of diminished
as more of the offense was turned over, not just to Fred van Fleet
and Pascal Siaka, but also Scotty Barnes. That's left some haziness looking forward
as to what his role will be like. Clearly he might fancy himself someone
who is more of an nonball creator. The numbers do not back that up.
I've we've seen promise, We've talked about it on the pod. Not
so much this year. He could hit sort of the you know, the
methodical pull up jumpers. We've seen him do more than attack on straight line
drives, but just as a passer, even varying up his handle a little
bit more, there needs to be demonstrative leaps there. And even then,
is he someone who's going to be able to face up and hit just these
you know, isolation jumpers consistently, I don't know. And does he fancy
himself that type of player? I really push comes to shove. Even if
you think maybe he's most to that, I would just question the playmaking.
What is his turnover rake going to be in those situations as well? Still,
Toronto's been mentioned as a Rudy Gobert destination. I just want to make
it clear, I fucking hate that fit. It's just it's grotesque in my
mind, I'm sorry. They'd figure it out and they'd be great defensively,
I don't want to watch that offense. Toronto's apparently not willing to give up
Siakam in that deal because they value him more than Rudy Gobert, as they
absolutely positively should. But you can't match money unless you're gonna give up og
And then it would have to be Yarry Shrent and all like Ludy, because
you're not going to trade Fred fan Fleet or Scotty Barnes for that matter,
and step letter your way there, which is why I would rule Toronto out
basically from that. But you almost have to command that type of hall.
And so unless there's a team with like bad money or unwanted money on the
books, or not even bad money, but just these larger contracts that aren't
instrumental to the team's future, you know, Charlotte would be a perfect example
here. Atlanta comes closest to I think straddling both sides of the fence where
it's like, okay, he's an upgrade from Clint Capela, do you attach
DeAndre Hunter? Is their picks involved there? There have to be more money
involved as well, but they have Bogdan Macdonovitch. They have Neil Gallinari's uh,
he's partially guaranteed salary for next season if they wanted to guarantee that him
and move it since the math with Uta would be weird leading into the draft,
since they do not have cap space there, there's a workable situation there
when you're looking at just the other contracts that they have on the books.
That still though, if you're the Jazz and you're turning Rudy Gobert and to
Clink Cappella DeAndre Hunter and like, is it Kevin Hurt like and it's just
one more guy, and that guy's not going to be John Collins. And
if it was, I questioned why a Landa was giving up so much.
That's not really inspiring. And so if Quinn Snyder at least, if he's
around, you can talk to yourself into well, if we're on this back,
what if we try and get in on the sweepstakes for o Gianna Noby,
ourselves or Jeremy Grant. They can trade first round picks. Uh.
In the I don't I don't want to say the not too distant future,
but the just the very distant future in twenty twenty six would be the first
allowable one technically pending an obligation to OKC in twenty twenty four, and then
they could also include twenty and twenty eight pick franchises front offices. They don't
have the jobsability necessarily value those picks all that much, which is why probably
the Lakers, not probably, it's why the Lakers twenty twenty seven and twenty
twenty nine first round picks aren't being talked about these massively valuable trade ships.
That being said, Utah does have Royce O'Neill, who, look, he
dropped off defensively this year, but he was responsible for so much, especially
the past few years, and I think he's overtaxed. He can't have him
be your best perimeter defender. He's just not big enough to hold up to
the workload that Utah has assigned to him over the years. He would still
be really valuable and pretty much every single team in the NBA. So you
have him. There's probably teams that might be interested in Mike Conley. You
can make more. I don't the names. I think it's they're out there.
If the Kings decided to trade Harrison Barnes, which I don't expect them
too. There's Jeremy Grant in Detroit, and there's I guess og A and
Obi Now in Toronto. If people think he's upper Grams, who knows what
Washington does, KCP and Kyle Kuzmer sitting there. Those are lower end options.
Ken Rick Williams and okay see another lower end options. But you can
explore buy now moves with the Jazz's roster. It's just harder because of their
limited draft pick cachet. You have to be willing to put those distant picks
on the table number one and then have teams willing to value them. But
if you want to make more of an all in play, it's not outside
the realm of possibility. It's more likely the Jazz can do that than the
Lakers, for instance, So you have to consider that. If Quinn Snyder's
there, it's easier to talk yourself into that. If you're beginning with a
blank slate. A new coach is that Kenny Atkinson, is it, Mike
d Antony? It seems like one of them is going to get the Charlotte
job. Please, for the love of God, you're not bring Mark Jackson
into use that I don't know that I can. I just I can't handle
that. I know people want them off ESPN, but my mind can't handle
that. My guests would be and this is just my guess. I don't
think Quinch Sider's gonna be pushing the Jazz next season. It just feels like
he's gone. The fact that this release and hopefully you're not listening to this
podcast and this news has become dated. So that's the status in Utah.
And if he leaves, I don't think everything's on the table, but their
offseason gets infinitely more interesting, not because they're just searching for another coach,
but because of what I would wonder what it means for the direction of the
team. Are they trying to again build on top of what they already have
or would there be more of a wholesale shift to where everybody but Donovan Mitchell
would be on the table. I don't know what the right course of action
is if I'm the Jazz. If I'm the Jazz, let's just be realistic.
I know fans of other teams want them to trade everybody, and this
core does feel stale. If I'm the Jazz, I'm putting every fucking pick
on the table, and I'm trying to go after and get that wing to
continue floating. This core. The trademark is going to dictate a lot of
that. I don't know. Let's use Jeremy Grant as an example. I
don't think they would have the best offer available for him. That's just my
guest. But there might be other mechanisms through which they can acquire wing.
Maybe it's a you know, maybe it's just more of a double rather than
a triple or a home run. There are always names that will become available,
uh, you know at the last minute or over the off season that
we haven't been talking about. Maybe just Atlanta full stop the under Hunters extension
eligible. They weren't sold on his lack of progress this year. Maybe they're
just willing to move him, like if you can put together a package for
that. So there are like there are just different things that you can try.
Maybe if you look if shit goes sideways in Chicago with Zach Lavine's free
agency, like is Alex Caruso all of a sudden available, Probably not a
big enough wing for them to really look at. What about Cleveland? Are
they willing to cut bait with Isaaca Corra a little bit earlier. I don't
necessarily love that fit just because he's he's better off. He seems like guarding
smaller wingish type swingman, and it feels like he's really most valuable is like
an off ball guy and looking free agency, maybe you get a want as
Conno Anderson, that's not the ceiling on who you could get if you're willing
to use the entire taxpayer mid level exception. But like that's among the best
that you could potentially hope for. That still makes you better, though,
is my point. So if I'm the jazz I, I don't know what
they're gonna do, I would double down because the windows are just so fickle,
and I know the West is going to be tougher, and the trademark
it needs to needs to allow it. So it's easy for me to sit
here and say that I don't know who's going to necessarily become available this summer
that we just haven't already mentioned in passing, But like, those are the
things that you you really need to that you really need to consider, because
a wholesale shift in the form of moving goal bear is going to make you
worse, and so you're almost committing to a quasi rebuild at that point,
is it like, is it's a simple, It's just like, let's just
give Royce O'Neill help. What is it cost again, Josh Richardson out of
San Antonio right now? One year or twelve point two million left on his
deal. That name has become taboo. It feels like he was just quietly
solid last year in Boston, but also really he was fine in San Antonio
as well. So keep an eye on the Jazz. My guess is Quinn
Snyder isn't there. If I had to bet, let's assume Quinn Snyder leaves.
I'm gonna say Rudy Gobert gets traded if he stays. Rudy Gobert does
not. But the Jazz are going to be a fascinating watch. The last
point we already so we mentioned the Oganna Nobi stuff. I've seen just a
lot of deals floated around that would get Utah the number seven pick and Josh
Hart from that would get Toronto excuse be the number seven pick and Josh Hart.
Jake Fisher pointed with his article for Police Before mentioned that that wouldn't be
enough to get Ognaobi out of Toronto, and I think I kind of agree
with that. Josh Hart's going in the final year of his deal and the
number seven pick, there's just like there's that drop off after five. Not
I'm talking talent specifically in this draft. A lot of people think there's that
drop off after four, but like the cachet of when you're moving that pick,
it feels like it drops off after the top definitely the top three,
but I think you can stretch it to five and so take something else.
Maybe that Milwaukee twenty twenty five first. Does that get it done? Something
to consider there. But my main point is I know Toronto sort of dances
to the beat of its own drum with Massi U Jerry at the helm,
and I know that having Siakam and Barnes and even Gary Trent Junior and just
the way with Precious to Chewa and just all these like the you know,
the wing bigger wing type bodies that you have to combo forward type bodies,
combo big type bodies. Maybe it makes you think that Toronto can say,
hey, we want to hire a pick and it's a player, and Josh
Harker would be useful to us immediately. But the Raptors are trying to win
now. They're really good. They have Fred van Fleet and Pascal Siakam and
Ogi Anobi. That is their window just as much as Scotty Barnes is who
the rating rookie of the Year, was a positive impact player for what became
a playoff team. And I just find it very hard to believe that they
would move og for just sort of picks and then maybe a rental if they're
gonna go even something that's close to that route. I would assume it's more
of like like a framework I've been banning about, is what if the Kings
offered you number four, Rashawn Holmes, there would need to be other salary
in there to make it work with with Ogeanna Noby. But so actually maybe
there wouldn't be and need to look at Rashun No, you would need you
need other salary there because the Kings aren't going to be a cash based team.
Let's just say Rashawn Holmes, Mo Harkless. That seems like a very
Toronto player. Number four, Oh, number four could have been the salary.
So if it's number four and Rashaun Holmes and then something like a protected
pick after this year for Ogianna Noby. That's a deal I could see Toronto
talking itself and do because you're getting you want. Apparently they apparently want a
big there. Rashaun Holmes not the most switchable god, but he's better on
defense than people give him credit for. Has that little push shot. I
still think he could out outside range if he gave him the green light,
would definitely help out their rebounding. He's been mentioned as a name that Toronto
should go after for quite some time, and look, he's just under He's
not a very palatable deal. He's never even gonna make thirteen million dollars in
a single season over the next three years. Maybe that's something they consider or
and look, I'm just I'm not saying New Orleans should do this, But
if New Orleans went number eight, Trey Murphy given his clothes to the year,
and that was the framework, plus DeVante Graham for o Gianna Noby or
maybe Jackson Hayes is involved in there, perhaps they viewed that as stilling enough
holes because you're getting the Trey Murphy was this tangible player and just the way
he shot in the playoffs and some of the things that he did defensively leading
into the postseason towards the end of the year that you could talk yourself into,
but just straight up picks and a guy who's going to come off the
books into Josh Hard. I'm looking at Portland specifically. I don't see that.
Maybe if two first are attached there perhaps Otherwise, if you're going to
move o Gianna Noby, it almost feels like you're going to do it as
part of a blockbuster all in play for yourself. And while I can think
of the archetype of player I'd like to see the Raptors get, and spoiler,
it's not a center. I just don't, you know, if they
too fine, But I don't think they need to go, you know,
go buck wild to try and get a Miles Turner or Rashaun Holmes or Rudy
Gobert or a Christian. Would Christian would be interesting there by the way,
I know it doesn't fit their defensive mold, but his floor game would be
nice. They need they need shooting, and they need like another self starter
on offense. You could say that he needs to come off the bench.
I don't care. I'd probably prefer a higher end option than that. You
definitely want a higher end option then after giving up Og. But I have
a very clear archetype in mind as for what the Raptors would would need,
And I just don't why would you move ogna Nobi independent of trying to elevate
your place in the Eastern Conference. It would just feel like this weird lateral
move or maybe even a step back. I know Og wasn't great this year,
dealing with a bunch of injuries, a lot of stop and start to
his game. It feels like his offense took a step back, but he
is still at his worst in the top ten, fifth percentile, the ninetieth
percentile of three in d weapons in the NBA, and someone who like He's
played a lot of two, three, four, you can stretch him to
guard some fives. They've used them to go up against Biggs before, So
we're talking very close to a five position defender. And I don't have just
any deals all in deals that would make sense for the Raptors with Og,
and again the Hodgepodge route. I just I feel like there could be something
there with the Pelicans if they wanted to have O G and Herb Jones on
the same team. That would just be wild like a Trey Murphy and Larry
NaN's junior as your primary and then number eight. Is that too much for
them? I don't know, but that could be a deal. I could
see maybe Toronto talking itself into that. Does it for the news portion of
this? I hope you hope you enjoyed that little little ramp. Let's get
to talking all things twenty twenty two NBA Finals with Alex kng Alex, Welcome
back to the Hardwood Knox podcast. I know I normally well, I pessed
you a few times a year, but I normally passed you for one podcast
a year, the Celtics look Ahead podcast, which I hope you'll let me
pester you for again this year. But they're in the finals, so I
had to pester you now to talk about this matchup with the Warriors before we
can and ball into it. Though, First and most importantly, how are
you doing? Man? I know we were just talking about me feeling a
little bit, you know, a little tense with the way the game ended
and stuff like that. But all things considered, I was extremely elated the
last time to Selter in the finals. I was sixteen, you know,
for all the history and stuff like that. You know, it's for Boston
standards. It's been a while for them specifically, so it feels good.
It feels vindicating for this group, and you know, like, let's get
it man Warriors, five years, five years later, but you know we're
here now. Yeah. I mean, I was telling you that it has
to be stressful as a fan just waiting for this, and also though it's
got to be a little surreal considering and I was one of the idiots that
just wrote them off the middle of the year. They were below five hundred,
and I was just like, I wasn't in there. They need to
break up Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown because that was fucking stupid. That sentiment
was always dumb. But I was just like, oh, this is this
is a disaster. And now now they're just they're just in the finals.
They're just in the finals. They swept the nets, they took care of
Jimmy Butler's will to win or whatever he calls it. These days, they're
just they're just in the finals. It's it's pretty surreally, even from like
a detached perspective, just looking at where they were in the middle of this
season. Honestly, it feels like a sports movie or something like you know,
how people people have been going back and looking at old sweets and laughing
other people. I've looked at old sweets and myself like looking at like,
look at what I was sweeting in January, I was like, all right,
let's blow this team up. A lot of people are saying, you
know, like at the time, like I wasn't. I wasn't for training
the days, but I understood the logic, like we're two years into five
hundred basketball, maybe the core just doesn't work in that way now, Granton,
I'm not a GM thankfully for Boston and they're in the finals, but
man, this turnaround, I can only describe it as a movie. It
feels like a movie. Yeah, it's it's incredible turnaround for them. And
I think objectively like this was the most you know, maybe you as a
fan might prefer like an easier matchup, like this was objectively the most compelling
matchup left was Warrior versus Celtics, right, especially looking at how just banged
up the heat were I guess Jimmy Butler, you know, got someone else's
knee or something midway through that heat Celtics series, but they were just like
they were even more banged up than the Celtics are. Yeah, I mean
that's a great team over there. They play have a lot of hard So
I mean, I think either either either those teams are going to get the
Warriors a great competition. But you know, obviously, as a fan,
I want to see Jason Satum, I want to see Jalen Brown. I
want to see them get that big stage. And honestly, for out corporate
man, it's just so great to see a guy worth fifteen years as something
not be able to even it's one thing to lose the finals, I'm able
to get to like the pinnacle of that despite being you know, when a
lot of people look for in modern bigs male and the longevity Heath had throughout
his career, So for him to finally get this moment and stuff like that,
you know, I'm I'm elated, and I think this is probably going
to be a really good matchup just based on how these teams play against each
other. He's also kind of a proof of concept for if you spend a
year in Oklahoma City, like it's order just rejuvenate you a little bit us
return, So when I've been watching, like, especially throughout the playoffs,
it feels like the Celtics offense whenever they have a lead or when it gets
later, but a lot of times when they have a lead, it just
slows down. And I couldn't tell if I was becoming a prisoner of a
moonent. So I went back and looked, and like, they're really burning
the shot clock in fourth quarters throughout the playoffs. I think in the rundown
I sent you like thirty four percent basically of their field goal attempts are coming
within seven seconds of the shot clock in the fourth quarter during the conference vinyls,
which seems too high. They don't shoot all in those looks they actually
had, they shot better from two point range on them than I expected.
Is there like something to that? Is it like, is there like a
cause behind why they're slowing down so much when normally how they're building these leads
is I don't want to say they're playing for neetically, but it's just like
they're not, you know, they're just getting into their stuff a lot quicker
I would. I don't. They don't think it's a strategy thing. I
think he may play seven and a half guys. They've played ninety plus games
down ninety eight and the rotation is got even shorter, and I think these
guys are fading late in games. That's my honest opinion. I could because
I don't think they like in Game seven, how they started that game.
It was very clear they wanted to play with a fast pace. They knew
against Miami that was the way to beat them. So personally, I don't
know any other way to describe it other than guy's running out of gas.
You could point to if you look at some of those structures lay in the
game. Tatum is primarily the point guard now as opposed to like Mark as
smart, and maybe there a little bit of like, all right, Tatum
already has the ball where it was Smart. A lot of it is trying
to get guys the ball, so there is movement and stuff naturally because he's
not the guy you want with a ball in his hands all the time.
So I mean, you could say maybe because they're bringing up with Tatum,
they don't see the need to go as fast. But honestly, like it's
it's probably like a plethora of things. I tie it to fatigue more so
than anything, though, I don't know, seven and a half man rotation
game ninety eight, you're playing guys, all of them playing forty plus minutes.
I just think they got into a victory formation a little too quick sometimes
and it literally almost talked to my final trip. But I'm sure we'll get
into that. But yeah, it's been a concerning trend. It's something that
I think is something to keep to keep tabs on, just because it's not
like this was just Miami game seven, you know, like they lost game
five at home to Milwaukee. Doing that, They've blown a lot of fourth
quarter like fourteen fifteen point leads, even going back, you know, earlier
this year, that was the story of their team. So it's not something
that's completely eradicated. I would just say it's topically different reasons now, Whereas
early in the year was maybe because you know, rotationtions and people not really
knowing what to do at the end of the game. I think they figured
a lot of that stuff out, then got into pollution where they weren't playing
both games at all, and I just thing in the playoffs, it's just
a grime. And I mean they're playing some really great teams and they do
need to figure it out though, because that's even saying fatigue. That's not
an excuse to completely almost crater you know, like thirteen fifteen point lead in
the span of three minutes, you know, so if something has to be
figured out with that, But yeah, like I don't. I just think
maybe those have something to do with the with with just how he's playing his
rotations, which you know, you can argue with them, but at the
end of the day, you know they're in the finals, So I guess
that's cut. You know, it's a gift in accurse. Yeah, And
I do think it's probably gonna come more important for them to actually operate well
in the half court because Warriors are fantastic at getting back in transition, and
so I think it's I feel think it's hyper important for Boston to get out
and push, especially after Golden State missus turnovers three able to force and I
think it helps that Golden State's a little loosey goosey with the ball as well,
but they're so good at like getting back in transition, it's going to
increase the importance of like them being more efficient in the half quarter, at
least doing things in the half court. Probably even sooner to where Okay,
Golden State's defense is set, but maybe it's not fully set because if you
just let twelve or fourteen seconds burn off the shot clock against them without putting
them in like any sort of rotation or anything, you're it feels like you're
sort of burying yourself at this huge disadvantage. Yeah, I mean that's fair,
and that's a good point. You brought up about the Warriors, and
they're not though they turn the ball over, they can turn teams over and
they play very quick too, and when you want to talk about fatigue and
some of the collapses that the function had, Golden State is a team that
you know, it could have been Step Courage that chanced to be Butler,
and then you know, maybe we're talking about a whole different thing. So
yeah, I mean, pace is going to be a very big thing in
this series. I feel when we spoke over the I don't even remember what
time of the year was at that point because the season result just you know,
sort of messed up. We discussed about how Jayon Brown's handle had become
like this asset or become tighter. What is going on with it right now?
Because it feels like he's been able to just like he's like fumbling possession
or that like teams are it's open season when he when he's putting the ball
on the floor. Is there like actually something to that or is that the
prisoner of moment take where I'm watching certain moments against the Heat, maybe a
little bit against the Bucks, But what is going on there? If anything,
I think it's just a lack of playmaking, Honestly, don't. I
think it's tied to the fact that one he doesn't he does. He's still
he's a better playmaker than he was last year, but he's still not just
have a playmaker that can manipulate defenses. And I think what you saw against
the Bucks and about the Heat is they make you play in a crowd.
They have every aggressive defenders that didn't get pushed off their line by Jalen.
And it was as simple as Jalen kind of has this thing still where it's
if he gets the ball, he's pretty much making a decision before he dribbles
whether he's gonna pass or shoot. And a lot of those guys and so
what that does for a defense is once he's driving the ball, you're not
worried about the past that's gonna happen. You're all keying in on him.
So he's keying in right into a lane. And I think something Miami did
really great was that no understanding that I'm just sending his limit tage with the
playmaker. They just sat on his gather stuff the second he started getting ready,
his second segments aren't going. And sometimes it wasn't even the guys defending
him. It was guys that were like on his strong side, just waiting,
waiting when okay, here you dump driving right by me. Jimmy Butler
hit three butler s white, So it was at some point It's just like
it was talked about in the contents uptive Handles, which yes he can,
he doesn't need to improve their level. But I personally looked at that as
just like a person who's still kind of a step or two behind when it
comes to playmaking and not understanding that, Okay, they're gonna overplay me.
I could sit on that and then hit the strong guy corner and then keep
on moving. I can keep moving. I can I can reset get the
ball again, move without the basketball. You don't need to have the basketball
all the time to be able to score, and I think Kane and I'm
sure we're getting that later. I think that's something that Tandem starts to understand
later in the playoffs. But Jalen is still kind of trying to do it
himself too much, sometimes in a way that's just not conducive against playoff level
defenses. I don't even know if there's a question so much as a thought,
but the way he's played and it's felt a little bit like too predictable
at points, I was wondering if the Warrior are gonna try. Yes,
I think Clay, insofar as like there's individual matchups in this series at all,
feels like Clay will get a lot of time on him. But I've
just wondered if, like we're going to see possessions where the Warriors try and
put Steph or when Jordan pools in the game on him just because they have
to. Their defense is so good, but they have a little bit more
to think about, like at the top of their defense at certain times it
feels like and so I've just wondered with the way that he's played, or
like the turnovers that he's committed, or some of the decisions that he's made
whether that's going to embolden them to try anything like that, And I'm just
so curious to see how that ends up panning out. I can see I
could see a situation where they put like step on him and then have like
Draymond sitting at the strong side basically and just waiting for him to make a
move or just putting it in his head, which it then kind of puts
him in a spot where he's probably not gonna be as aggressive. But I
think I think you can bate him into those type of things. It's it's
just a reality as as good as he's been as he makes. I mean,
this is the same series where he scored forty but almost had a triple
double with when you kind of turnovers too. So it's just it's really it's
very hot and cold with him, and I think the Celtics would be better
served honestly turning him into more of like a play type player this series.
It's something that you know, I think about Game Game five and my aunties
that second, that second half run the Celtics made led by Jaylen Brown,
Well, Jaylen Brown, I think maybe taking two or three dribbles on his
way to like eighteen second half points and it was all him moving off,
all catchumin wins, no thinking. No, this is like, let the
real playmakers, let Marcus Tatum shoot corporate. He's honestly the worst playmaker on
the starting five and by a long shot. So I was like, let
those guys do the creating stuff like that, and you focus on what you
do best, and honestly like as almost as well as Tatum, which is
scour of the basketball. Right. If he's just focusing on that, If
he's just focused on playing off movement, making quick decisions, not thinking,
he could still be a really good killer in this series. But I think
in moments where the words are slowing down the Celtics, making them play ISO
and a get into ball just in Jalen's hands, lace shot, cluck,
trying to make it the possession, that's where you can kind of see situations
where he's turned ball over and then they're running down the court and you know
we're getting we're getting hit with Mike Green bangs out of nowhere, you know,
So it'll be the Celtics have to be very delicate. I don't imagine
them doing anything drafting Game one. So I think part of them, was
probably going to think that Miami. There they are switchy. The words are
switchy. Two. They can they play fast with the Warriors, but they're
also are really really physical too, in a way that I don't think the
Warriors are. I could be wrong about that. I just don't think the
words are as physical as Miami. So I could see insist where the where
the Celtics say, Okay, even a guy like Max Druce that's known it's
like a defensive live billy at some point, he's still a big guy.
It still takes on to move him off the line. And if you have
that with a guy like PJ. Tucker waiting in the wing or bam at
about waiting in the middle, a guy Jimmy Butler who just just can't wait
to hitch hit the ball take coming out, it's a different type of concept
than kind of like what the Warriors do. So I would I mean,
i'd be interest to see if they can kind of if they can play to
that Miami standards. But I'd at least wait for game one. I wouldn't
change nothing yet. I'd wait for game one. See how they're defending him,
see if he has those same struggles and then make a change from there.
Is there anything you're looking for, like when things specifically slow down for
the Celtics against the Warriors, where it's you know, do we see like
so Jason Tatum feels like he's made incredible decisions when he's off the ball a
little bit. But is this also a situation where when you know how much
the Warriors are going to switch anyway, are you getting into sort of the
chest match of of targeting where you're putting the ball in his hands and trying
to get you know, him to go after Steph Curry or you know,
if Jordan Poole is on the floor. Is there any one thing about the
Celtics half court offense that you're watching leading into this series? It depends on
Clay and Wiggins, right, I mean, if we had this we're having
this conversation with a different Clay Thompson, I'd honestly be like, yeah,
we have to. It's not a matter of like are we going to try
to do It's the only way we're gonna be able to score. And there
was a timer Clay was like, pound for pound, one of the best
one on one defenders in the playoffs, and I don't know if that Clay
is there, and I want to see if Wiggins can really do it with
a player of Tatums caliber. He had some really great moments against Luca,
but Luca still you know, it wasn't like he shut Luca down all the
way. Luca still did a lot of what he wanted to do in that
series. So for me, I'm looking at this and saying, if they're
able to really tangibly slow tate them down with just their initial matchups. And
I can see the Celtics starting to move around focus more on, you know,
attacking mismatches, but a lot of the mismatches that they try to attack
are the wrong ones. Something and something I could see early on is like
not I don't want to I don't want to attack. For example, Marcus
Martin Kiman Looney, I want to attack Al Horford when he gets Klay Thompson
on him in the post. I want to attack. I want to attack
when they get you know the weird the weird curry On Williams saying when they're
just trying to junk up in action. I think there's situations for them to
attack kind of those more clear advantages, and I think they can do that,
they can do that, will they I don't know, because the play
Thompson and Wiggins played at the level that I think them been cable of,
but not one hundred percent sure that they'll get to. Then you know,
it's kind of a matter of, like Dave, that something would have to
maybe even consider playing smaller, getting more shooting on the floor, getting more
spacing. But if they can still score, what's the two big lineups,
which is what I'm gonna be watching for, then the words to be in
some trouble because the other's still allowed to play big while still you know,
being able to put together an average drop. I mean, for a defense
like that, we had to rethink of Boston like how we consider offense because
our defense is so elite. We can't just be like, all right,
what we need to compare us for mother e leafe offense. For us,
it's like passable offense, a leafe defense. So we can have a passable
offense with two bigs. To me, that's to me, that's that puts
us in really big, a really big position to win a championship. But
I think if Thompson and Wiggins proved, you know too tough of a matchup,
or at least good enough to slow down Tatum and the Celtics have to
now explore going smaller, taking away from some of something they like to do,
maybe not playing as much as Rob Williams and just can impact their defense.
Then I think, yeah, like you have to kind of start going
for the mismatching. But I wouldn't. But the answer you question, I
wouldn't just go off of it just to start the game. I think you
just play the game, you let it flow out, and then you pick
spots within the game, like, okay, now it's down the stretch over
within your bucket. Now you hit the timely bucket. Now this is when
Tatum is pushing pushing step Perry under the under the rim or something like that.
So that's an odd play it. Personally, uh, Cavan Looney has
been a monster during the playoffs, like just an absolute beast, like done
everything, been great for offensive rebounding. Much is still made of the Warriors.
This new Liquid death lineup, whatever it's called. It cooled off for
a second. It barely played in the conference finals. I think they played
like twenty four minutes across five games, and they were plus seventeen and twenty
four minutes, which is which is great, But do you see this as
a series because not that Looney can't play, but that Boston likes to play
big, and so there's not I don't know what the advantage necessarily is to
having Looney on the court. Do you see them as like, do you
think that they're going to maybe not early, but downsize a bunch during the
series to Draymond at the five lineups and Brad Brad Stephens Celtics absolutely email Celtics,
you have to make them. You have to make them. They're not
gonna just do it because they're going to assume that they think, even playing
big, that they can stay in front of people. They left Grant Williams
on an island of Victor Oladipo. They didn't care. They he's defended Kevin
Durant. Same with Rob So. I think for the Celtics, they see
that as like a core part of their identity and you have to literally show
them that they cannot use that at all before they change. Because even when
Miami went small, the Miami did that a lot. They're a small team
in general, but even they had even they had lineups of like Tucker at
the five and Boston still played two bigs. They did not care they still
played two bigs. Now Golden States personnel offers different challenges, better you know,
better shop making and stuff like that. So does that change the calculus
maybe? Is it a little bit harder for Gret Williams, say in front
of Oladipo versus Jordan Pool? Yes, of course so those But again what
I'm what I'm getting at though, is they have to still execute that though,
So in game one of you know they're killing them in the two big
lineup, then they'll change it, but they still have to prove it firston.
I don't want to vision the Celtics just assuming it's a weakness already,
because I don't think they believe that until someone shows it. I think it's
clear they trust they're two big lineups and for good reason. Do you think,
though, like the state of Rob Williams's knee changes that at all,
just because he didn't look like I mean, the injury management with him,
I guess, I don't know if it's weird or effective, like, because
he's looked really good at points during the playoffs within he's missing games, but
in Game seven, it looked like he was running through mud with concrete shoes.
I think having all this time off hopefully helps him, But does that
change the approach if the Warriors downsize at all to having him on the court
with Horford, I would think so. I mean, Udoka today sounding pretty
upbeat when talking about Williams, he talked about he made He made a very
key point saying, you know, since a buff series played seventeen you know,
straight days, playing games every other day, you know, so that's
a lot. That's a lot coming off of menisca surgery that he came back
early from, right, which is like another thing to note. So you
know, we'll have to I think for them, they're honestly looking at it
like we want to play the way we got the stile that got us here.
But if Robson looks hobbled or ineffective, you know, we trust type
I started most of those games in Brooklyn, you know, like we trust
him, and we trust the brand most importantly too. So I can see
a situation where they might have a little bit more quicker trigger with him than
they had early in the year because they know he is campered. So it's
not a matter of like, Okay, he's just playing bad, he's find
a footing. It's like okay, he's gimpy, or okay, maybe he's
not getting there in time. So now we have to switch on how we
want to defend, how you want to play. And look, you mentioned
Grant Williams. He's a he's a podcast favorite here, and one of my
favorite playoff stats, which is obviously not changed because they eliminated the Bucks,
is that whenever he registered as a partial defender on a possession with Janna's attend
to Kopo, the Bucks as a team averaged about one point zero three points
per possession, which is it's not like super elite, it's it's not good.
So like he's just he holds up against all these different sorts of matchups.
And so I still think people undersell what he means to the Celtics defense,
all that focus like always you know, look at what he's done when
he stretched the floor and had that hot stretched against Milwaukee specifically. So I
think he's he's certainly a name to watch if Rob Williams is not going to
be able to play a ton of minutes. But as you mentioned, I
was only thinking about the time leading into the finals. It's definitely helping that
there's like two and three days between each of the games from looking at the
schedule, which is not a luxury that we've had it all in the postseason.
Yeah, exactly. It allows I think it allows the teams kind of
you know, it's not just Rob altorfer is thirty five. You know,
he's he's an older guy. Some of the Celtics are banged up, Marcus
Smart banged up. Tatum had had his shoulder, so you know, it's
the playoffs. You know, every like like that old time lou thing that
every podcast is saying, everyone's injured. Everyone's kind of playing through something at
this stage of the year. But yeah, man, it's gonna be it's
gonna be a slog And I said, but I do think the time is
gonna help them, especially Golden State. Honestly, I think more than Boston,
just because I think that I think that's what the experience will help them.
I think they're a little bit used to being in finals. They know
how the final schedules goes, they know how to meet a day is supposed
to be, they know how they're supposed to sleep, they know how to
change coasts. So I think there's there's there's something to that that I think,
you know, could end up helping them, but helping them enough to
win the series. I mean, that's to me, that's still yet to
be the term. How do you think the Celtics are gonna want I'm sure
they'll throw a bunch of different stuff at him, but they like when you
look at how the matchups fair this year, like there wasn't enough time of
even semi full strength minutes for each team to to really take stoff in it.
How do we how would you expect the Celtics to try and defend Steph
Kerry. I'm not asking you how they're gonna stop him, because I think
we were were all beyond that question now, but like, how do you
see them trying to make life difficult on him? Man? I mean I
think they. I think they try their best to switch everything except Rob robin
ol screens. I think they're gonna try not to switch their big zomps and
stuff that that's one thing. So I can see maybe like light drops,
arn't heads and stuff like that, they start smart on him, injured or
not. That's your defensive player of the Year. That's your best point of
attack defender. I know some teams like to throw a length on him,
but personally with the with the workload they put on Jelen and Jason to chase
Steph Curry around for fourteen seventeen miles a game seems like a lot whether you're
also going to be asked to score a lot, and you know, maybe
chasing Martin, maybe chasing Steph Curry will motivate Marcus Smart to continue to pass
the ball even in the fourth quarter instead of almost putting out of a final
appearance. So I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, I
want him to stay busy there. He could want to. I want to.
I want emay in his ear telling him he can win a finals MVP
if he can shut down Steph. But I mean, you know, I
think it's gonna be about, realistically, it's about giving him a bunch of
different looks. Sometimes it's gonna be uh, Marcus, sometimes it's gonna be
Jelen. At times I think the real person. And you know, I
think I think you mentioned this as well. Derek White be huge. Derek
White did some really special things guarding movement shooters in the Miami Series. In
a way that despite his horrendous shooting. I mean, if you're a something
S fan, you know, we have not had defenders that could hangs onto
shooters since Avery Bradley Loft and Avery Bradley is too small, so even when
he hung on them, they shot over him. So this is probably like
our best movement defender that we've had in a very long time. I think
he's going to be very important after the words. They're going to challenge him
and leave him really wide open if he if he's effective, and I think
he's maybe the X factor of the series because if he can, if he's
able to stay on the court play the type of defense he can play on
Steph, that gives you one. It kind of it kind of reduces the
need for rob in a way because you're not so caught up on like just
gribal penetration as much anymore. If you're constantly like there, you're sitting to
your person, people don't have to switch, people aren't in so much motion
as much. And I just think that if you could lay out the page
touches, tournaments will complete like ISO Shop making team not being able to score
off split action and elevators Arason cutting off top of action and you turn them
into like an isot that it's just step trying to make a play, George
trying to play, trying to make a play. Derek White gives them the
chance with that, just with the way he can follow and chase and navigate
around the screens. Well he though, that's a whole other different story.
Uh yeah, his screen navigation of the conference finals was fantastic. But you're
I am curious because you mentioned like his poor shooting at points throughout the playoffs,
when your offense feels like it might already be like fighting an uphill battle,
it's how many minutes can you get away with him there? I guess
the alternative is just like I don't like, it depends on who's you're replacing.
But if you're supping him in for Rob Williams, how much does that
hurt the offense Potentially? I guess you lose that like lob threat, that
role threat. So there's that to consider as well, which, by the
way, I can't even as he's been playing injured and just seeing like time
Lord like distill the verticality that he has, there have been moments where he
still just looks like you could jump out of the building. So I'm I
put that in the run aff where I feel like this might be a Derek
White series though just even not even like just all the off ball stuff that
the Warriors doing, Like Clay is in constant motion, and so is that
someone who's better or can at least help out to put pressure on Clay or
stick with him rather than allocating Jail and Brown to that role. Who we
can do that just fine as well. But it's just like the Warriors are
gonna be putting so many of the celtics best defenders through the ringer, I
think in ways that we haven't seen really any other team do that this this
postseason. Yeah, I mean it's gonna be a tough one. I think
even if the Celtics school confident and their ability to be switchy, to be
versutil in that way, it's a whole other thing to you know, be
there, have the matchup right and watch, you know, step Purty still
hit a thirty footer in your face and then follow that up and Klay Thompson
is there and then Jordan Pool does his own reenactment too, and that last
game against the Celtics when when step went out, I mean, Jordan pools
one that led that come back and made that a very much more competitive game
before the Selton's pooled away again. So his shot making has been something that
you know, the Celtics has struggles to contain as well. So I think
just the extra attention that goes to those guys and stuff, and knowing how
Draymond Green is one of the you know how one of the smartest players ever
to play this game, and how he knows how to attack over help and
overplaying stuff, you know, it's gonna be really really imperative that the Celtics
don't get caught in too many situations where they're scrambling or not existence that they
like. So I could see a situation where, you know, Derek White
does end up playing a lot, even despite the fact that he may not
be able to shoot as well, because you don't want to end up with
too many situations where a hobbled Robin's garrying like Jordan Poole or something like that.
So you know, I'm Derek White does have an issue with shooting.
The words are going to test that. One thing I would say if your
Boston is and he hasn't very affected that, you know, driving support,
creating contact, getting downhill and if you're maybe and maybe you know, the
worriest thing they can steal minutes maybe having step on him, having clay something
like that, you allow him to be aggressive and just you know, attacking
and going stuff like that. You know, it allows it at least makes
set or whoever's going to defend him have to have that to play defense.
Because my thought process is because he can't shoot, they're probably just gonna have
step on him or something like that, or even Draymond, which could be
interesting and just have Draymond just kind of completely ignore him slow, kind of
junk of all the other actions fast the thing is really likely not not thinking
about I think that's actually what they're gonna do, probably, which can then
really hampered Derek White's affecting this offensively if he's not able to constantly take and
make cats and shoot threes, which we still haven't seen him do consistently.
This entire playoffs are time with the Celtics, right, I've also wondered how
the Celtics we're gonna and then I've I think everyone to falls to the Warriors,
don't run this enough, but they're averaging one point two five points per
possession when it's a Steph and Draymond pick and roll. And I was trying
to get thought, as said, what would be the best way for Boston
to defend that during what would be their regular lineup minutes when you have two
bigs on the floor. And I didn't really consider this, but Nikaia s
tucking His wrote that he thought that Jayson Tatum would see a bunch of time
and Raymond Green because you could theoretically put Al Horford on Andrew Wiggans since he's
not someone who's moving a ton, and then that would give you, I
think, a dynamic in defending the Steph and Draymond picking roll that literally no
other team in the league would have because that's Marcus Smart and Jason Tatum then
defending that picking roll, which feels like, again, that could still be
a deadly combination, but it feels like it's at least like maybe you could
neuter it a little bit if those are the two primary defenders in that action.
Yeah, and that's actually what I thought was going to be the matchups
going into this series. Too smarter than I then I did not even I
didn't consider it. That was I mean, that was the last match that
they played. In fairness, it was it was. It was what they
did in the second matchup against the Warriors. So that's something that I had
noted. I had in my notes. I was out with that though.
I know you had putting a Horford on some of like looney, I was
wanting to rob you get away with defending Andrew Wiggins or something like that,
as if he's in the corner. That's kind of how the Celtics want to
use Rob Williams anyway, like help him off of there. So yeah,
I mean, but that's like I didn't really consider those like options, and
so that would give you because I still like that's the steph tre pick and
roll has been just phenomenal for years, and just if they're busting it out
in Boston has like an actual answer to it. I'm just trying to think
of ways to come up Golden State's half court offense, which can be really
tough, but they also go through these berths where they're coughing the ball up
a lot and it doesn't seem like they're playing well, but then you look
and it's like, oh, well, they're all friends of rating was still
like one twenty seven for that game, and so like they put up these
points. I think maybe because it happens in droves sometimes without even feeling it,
And so it just forces me, at least me personally, like to
think of, like, alright, well, how do you go about like
defending some of the more like granular actions that they're gonna run to maybe try
and stop some of those just avalanches of scoring from them. Yeah, And
I think you just have to understand that they're gonna have those runs. I
mean you can't you honestly can't stop them to a certain extent. You can
limit it, you can change the way those hooks are coming. And I
think Boston, you know better than you know most of the teams in the
league, at least in the regular season have done a good job at least
being able to stay at home. They were confident their ability to defend on
the perimeter against them. So you know, like, I don't know if
they're but you know, it honestly feels like I know what's gonna happen.
Like I know they're gonna switch a lot, I know they're gonna be aggressive
and it's gonna and I know that at the end of the day, it's
smart can start on stuff, but it's gonna be somebody else that's on at
the end of the posession. Either way, it's gonna be tatives, they'll
be brown, you know, it could be orforing some posessions and it's gonna
be how many times the Celtics stop that from happening and just be able to
stay in their actual base defense. If they can stay in their base,
which has been the theme of like how great their defense has been not being
forced and not being dictated at all, like them setting the standards and they're
able to do that, it becomes it doesn't guarante see a win, but
at least it guarantees it kind of creates a situation where it's now, okay,
it's making myths at this stage, Like it doesn't mean STEP's not going
to score over Marcus marsh who over a seven drop forty can and will probably
least one game this series, but it's gonna be like is that gonna be
one game this series or two? Is is there gonna be one Jordan Pool
game? And how many click times games are gonna do? I think the
more, they're able to stay in their base and whatever. We're just saying
their initial matchups. Uh, and then you know they can test like crazy
fly by can tests have to be really important. Some of the Bucks do
really well that the Celtics have done, I've done well, Like in first
I think their wings do really well. I don't think their guards do it
as much, but they're guards gonna need to do that as well too,
even when they get beat on these screens, it's gonna take forty eight minutes.
Man. The Warriors. The Warriors can score, like you're saying,
at any time. It can come in droves. The Celtics are used to
like coughing up leads in droves. So there's you know, there's there's there's
there's you know, there's some chemistry for like some really bad stuff to happen.
But I didn't realize that. You know, the Warriors do turn the
ball over as much as the Celtics do too as well. Like actually they're
I think Warriors term for present its fifteen. Boston is fourteen point six,
so they're like they're they're right there in terms of you know, giving each
other the ball. So I think we'll see some crazy games where it's like
step had a crazy turnover or like Marcus you know, shot at three of
like thirteen seconds lest so they could have moved the ball and that was like
a turnover. And then are not so like they're prone to make those mistakes
and stuff like that. But if the series starts becoming about like you know,
the Celts have to go small, they need to place did they need
play faster than you match the Warriors size Warriors already won the series. You
start hearing that stuff. Warriors already won the series. And it's also still
playing the way they want to play with their two bigs. They're having success
that when it's the type series, then you know anything now it's like a
game. Now anything is possible. But I honestly don't know what it's going
to be. Rob's injuries changed that for me. How Derek what's gonna perform.
How all these guys are gonna perform in their first finals. It's kind
of what's making me kind of teether, like I don't really know what to
any other things. Gary Payton the second is just supposed to come back at
some point too, And that's just like another defensive like the beast that you
have to contend with, and he's been he's been so fantastic this year.
He can he gives you some limitations on offense, but like they've used him
as a screener when he's on the floor, and so like there's just the
Warriors seem I think when you look at the top end talent, like the
Celtics have like these just seven really good players that would be near the top
of rotation in every other team's rotation, But the Warriors definitely have like some
more depth, and it feels like maybe it is adaptability to the way that
they're going to play. You did mention though, and I think the two
I don't know if they're misconceptions or things that just aren't talked about enough.
Everyone just assumes like the Warriors are this like super incredible, high volume three
point shooting team because they have Stephan Clay, but they do real damage from
the mid range of points. And then they also just don't protect the ball.
They haven't, like ever since this dynastic run. I just feel like
they don't like I feel like they haven't protected the ball really well, like
in really any given season. So I do think that's something that could turn
this series on its head as well as if one team is just better it
making like not even like they're being disrupted in this complicated fashion, but if
you're just gonna cherish the possession or protect them all a little bit better,
that could be a turning point in certain games. We do get to the
cookie cutter portion of this podcast now though, who are you? Who are
your ex factors for for either side? We talked, We talked a little
bit about it. I would say one person that we didn't talk about that
I think could end up having some type of you know, Payton Pritchard.
I think Payton Pritchard, he's undersized a lot of times. You know,
he doesn't always play. I think it was telling that in Game seven he
didn't play at all, because that's for me, that's when coaches really show
you who they trust in Game seven. So it's telling for me that Duncan
Robinson didn't play ninety million Duncan Robinson, and it was very it was already
telling that, you know, paying Printon didn't play for me. But with
that being said, this it's a different team to the different matchup. I
think they'll try to steal some Payton matchups. So even though he's undersized offensively,
Warriors are, Warriors are not. I don't think the worst is a
team that's going to punish him much for his size. And he's a guy
that does play hard on defense. He does trying to navigate screens. He
is there a lot of times. It's just like you can't do nothing when
it's a six one six two guys. But if you're defending Steph, you're
and you're defending Jordan and you have the speed and some stuff to match them,
then the other end, you're making them defend because you can pull up
from thirty yourself. I think having that kind of just just just having that
kind of outlet was really was really nice for Tatum during the year. He
had some nice ones against Warriors himself in the regular season. And I think
he's someone that you know, like if he starts shooting and he starts really
like making the words have to pay attention to him, it could change how
like they're how they defend Tatum Brown and stuff like that when they're on the
court. Who Prichard and stuff like that, and sonn or remember it's like
the Tatum Pritchard dynamic was really good in the regular season. It's just that
we played a lot of teams of a lot of great size and a lot
of great players that you know, have kind of made it like, you
know, let's play Derek White his defense a little more about table Grant's versatilities
little more valuable, size them more valuable. But again against some of the
words, that doesn't necessarily overwhelm you with that type of size or of that
type of that with physicality. I think Richard has a chance to make an
impact in this series. So he would be my first X factor. Wiggins
would be my second one because I think the Celtics aren't going to test to
be about that life. I think they're gonna put Rob on him to start
just to see, you know, can he take advantage of this book,
of this matchup or not? Can you can you not? If he can,
he be the guy that actually slows down a player like Jaylen Brown and
Jayson Tatum and like do it consistently over a seven game series. If he
doesn't look, if he doesn't look like he's up to the moment, that
does put a little bit of a like like a hamper and how golden they
can can proceed and I'm neces really interested in how Andrew Wiggins is gonna respond
because this could be like this could be a it has a type of series
where he has like a really great series. I don't think we remember who
the Andrew Wiggins wasn't Minnesota. I think that kind of part of his narrative
kind of goes away and he just from him like this NBA champion great two
way defend their eggy two point. No, it's a really big leg the
serience for him and how he's viewed, I think just career wise as well,
and he would be he would be my second X factor, and I
don't want to take them off from you, so I'll just leave those two.
You know, I probably haven't given I guess because I've been so impressed
with Wiggins, and you mentioned that Luka Danji still got his last series.
Willgans made life so difficult on him. But I guess what I didn't give
enough consideration too, is that if you put him on like if he's gonna
guard take him a ton and it just doesn't work, Like you're putting yourself
in a position where it's like, Okay, well where do you go from
here? Like are we pulling Draymond out of like the I don't want to
oversimplifies his role and say the free safety role, but like if you decide
that he needs to defend like one of the wings more often, that changes
the dynamic of your defense, and so he is hyper important. My pick
for the Warriors was actually Oddo Porter Jr. Because I do think that there,
and I love Kavan Looney, he's been so good. I just don't
think he's a matchup advantage for them. It feels like a matchup neutral for
the Warrior, And so the response would be try and downsize. And I
know that that's with the Pool lineup, but we've seen some like where Otto
Porter and Draymond Green are your front court if you're able to those minutes,
are able to do really well, or if you're even if you have to
use him to go after like Tatum or Brown, like just because they're gonna
be stretches where Gary Payton the second can guard up, but he's also really
small. What if Andrew Wiggins isn't playing too all on there, that's not
Those aren't matchups that you necessarily want to throw Clay onto. Maybe Jayon Brown,
but definitely not Jason Tatum, I would think, and so he feels
like someone who is going to be could become critical throughout the series at both
ends for the Warriors and for the Celtics. I think I just default to
Derek White. And maybe I'm like because I was as you were talking,
it's like, what's the way to buy Peyton Pritchard more minutes in this series?
I know you mentioned you're not worried about the Warrior's lack of physicality,
but is it like, okay, if Pools on the court or if you
know, if Gary Payton the seconds on the court, like because those give
him like some type of smaller bodies to defend. I would just be curious
as to what you think is like the optimal situation to deploy him in.
Yeah, I would definitely say like you definitely you would you try to pick
like the like the Gary Payton times when pulls in the lineup and you know,
like I've seen this, I don't think the Celthings will try putting him
on bigger guys they've done in a regular season guys that maybe just like three
or d they have some inches on him. But I think you know that's
not that's not a winning strategy because in the playoffs, eventually at some point
coaches just tell those guys start crashing and then they you know, they start
creating second chance art betweenies that way. So I think you're right. Definitely,
the definitely the Gary Payton minutes would be would be time to put him
in. I think you've tested at least even when pulls in and just see
like okay, like can he stay in front of him? Because you know,
I imagine pulls in me and Play is gonna be in, Derek White's
gonna be guarding maybe you know, play or something, and at least either
at least to start. So I think you know you can put him in
and see being in survived. If you can't, you do what you've been
doing, play your seven man lineup. You ask more Derek, you ask
more Grant and stuff like that. But I think his shooting and what it
could potentially do to the series makes it at least you know you have to
at least see if he could be someone that could be a factor for you.
That's how I feel, a sneaky X factor that definitely can't count.
But Draymond Green's offense, it seemed like they figured out how to use him
finally in that last game against Dallas where it was like he wasn't clogging up
like the middle of the floor, like he was off to the side and
it wasn't really the dunker spot, but he was just around the hoop or
he was setting screens, set the screens away from the ball, and I'm
just curious to see, like, you know, he's been bad at points
off actively during the post and there's no other like he's a fantastic player,
but he's just been bad on offense. And no, I don't expect him
to hit, you know, I think he hit two threes or order three
in that game. But the Celtics gonna be completely disinterested in him if you
have him not even beyond the three point line. But just like in the
top of the key, that's not something they're gonna care about. And so
the way they use him and whether he's willing to take those floaters or drive
by guys an attack open space, that feels like you could go a long
way towards optimizing Golden State's offense against a defense where no, I don't expect
him to shut down the Warriors, but this is this is by I mean,
I don't want to all credit in the world of the Grizzlies. This
is by far the best defense that Golden state his face in the playoffs.
Oh yeah, for sure. And you know the playing in my dreamond Is.
I know he has had some really tough stretches, but I think the
Celtics honestly, when you put taintum on him, I'm not playing with a
lot of space like he has above the top of the key. I don't
want him sitting there studying your defense, dissecting where to go, breaking it
down. I just think over the course of the series, he's gonna figure
it out. So I think if you put taintum on him, because when
he's in those situations, I want him guarding up on him. I want
him guarding the ball. I want him trying to force force quick decisions.
And I don't I don't believe that Dreamond can blow by him score consistently enough.
That makes that to make that scary. So if you're the boss,
if you're bosson like in those situations like yeah, you're definitely like playing off
in some situations like when you when you can clearly tell he's maybe like a
like a dummy in the action, maybe all the way off on the weak
side, or if he's on the weak side like Dunger spot maybe you you
you keep it on him, but like you're watching the action. But I
still wouldn't. I would never give him on Green to twenty Allen action.
He's just too smart and too pidole to their team. And we've seen how
many times he's used that to just create open looks for stuff, open looks
for play, Like all right, all right, so you're not gonna guard
me stuff, come here, quoka quick screen open three real quick. So
it's like, I don't want him being able to like dissect and learn and
figure out something sleeping because as great as it's been, I mean, he
is one of the greatest minds in NBA history. He will figure this Celtics
team out at some point, so I'll just have to hopefully win before that.
That's why I bring you on here, because I never thought standing off
of Draymond Green would give him time to just dissect your defense for future possession.
It's just not something that occurred to me. What is your official prediction
for this series? The ultra cookie Cutter part of this podcast, Oh so
I'm gonna off top. I think this alt lose game one. It's just
first game in the finals. It's a it's an oracle. Those are the
guys. Don't lose game one, so they'll they're don't purr usual like last
season is to start off one, uh from there, though, I think
they can pull it off in seven. Seven to me sometimes feels like what
I say when it's a toss up like fifty fo I don't really know,
but I have confidence in them. I don't have confidence that they can close
it out at six, which wouldn't my rope prediction. You know, if
something were a little bit more mature of how they handle the heat, I
maybe would have been a little more spicy and been like, all right,
I think I can. I think they beat them at six, but they
could have closed the deal on a Friday night in their hometown and then almost
lost up thirteam of three minutes left. So they're they're still a young team
that's still figuring out how to win, and they're getting lucky breaks, which
is good for the mental But I still think it's gonna They're not gonna make
this easy. It's gonna be the hardest possible way they can possibly win.
I do think their defensive physicality can can wear can wear on the Warrior shooters
over the over a series. More so guys like playing Pool. People usually
pick on stuff with that, but I don't think. I think step is
gonna. I think Steff is ready, you know what I mean. I
think Steff is ready for it. I think a guy like Pool, it's
his first series, he could you know, his first finals play still coming
back and has his moments where like he looks like play, but then you
know he saw times that it's not fully there yet, especially with like the
lateral quickness and defense. So I think that the physicality part over a semi
game series, and they don't, you know, blow a game, blow
again that they shouldn't and create two intermountable series lead. I think that over
a semi game series they can tire them. I think can tire the Warriors
out and win in seven. But you know there's still more if I mean,
there's more realities which the Warriors win, and I can't imagine reality with
somethings don't win anything but seven, so they'd be out. Maybe you know
when you're then when your best team in the finals you don't pick against them,
I can't pick. I can't do it. I cannot pick against them.
So cethings and seven, I wouldn't expect you too, but don't worry.
I did. I was considering. I thought, I thought so.
I was initially going with Warriors in six, but I think that I was
just too low on some of the like the way that Boston's offense devolved with
leads or later in games. Their defense is just so good and this team
is just like they've responded really well for them most part to their losses to
this postseason. So I think it's just going to be one of those true
chess matches. I'm very curious to see, you know, they're I think
they're gonna make life tough ron Klay Thompson then any of the other teams we've
seen, and he's like, yeah, he's had his moments, but he's
every All of his shots now look like they're you know when you push somebody
in a pool, Like he's just so off balanced on them now is like
his new thing. So I this this series is going to fascinate me endlessly.
But I have I have Warriors in in seven. So I did talk
myself into into seven there. But you could convince me that either of these
teams win. I think I'm just defaulting to the experience. And I do
think that Golden State's offense is going to end up having more answers for Boston's
defense than vice versa in the long run. And nothing that A lot of
the stuff that Boston did on offense during the Heat series at points, it
did nothing to to convince me otherwise. Yeah, I mean, the half
court offen is the thing for Boston, and you know, right now we
are relying on a lot of we have stretches where we could when we play
with pace and we look, you know, like serious, but we haven't
don forty eight minutes. The three point shooting, you know, against teams
that can switch definitely declines a lot. But I think with a very big
difference between the Bucks versus the Heat and I think versus now the Warriors when
that can switch, just as well as Miami when when a team can switch
against us, we're very quick to go into ISO sometimes. And I think
though the Celts have gotten a little bit better and at least, you know,
I've seen Tatum starting to make second movements now after after the initial pass
and getting Iso pass it outside just standing there, spacing out, move around,
trying to try to get in the paint, trying to keep moving off
the actions. I think Bucks in Miami basically like made that the only way
he could, you know, get in rhythms at some points. And I
think they're gonna have to do that a lot because the Warriors are the Warriors,
you know, are infamous for their ability to continue to play after they
passed the ball, which is something that's something gonna have to get used to
as well, because I don't think any of no other team doesn't as well
as them. So yeah, it's it's gonna be a dog bite, man.
I think it's it's a great it's two great styles. I think the
someths I've been trying to build something like the Warriors have for a very long
time. I think this is their their best version of it, and I'm
looking forward to seeing how it competes against the world. Thing. This should
be It should be a lot of fun. It better be a lot of
fun because we deserve it. After how many blowouts there were, like towards
the end of the second round through the conference finals, Alex are you able
to tell our listeners where they can follow you on social media? Yes?
I could be followed at my last name. Hey you end you on the
score NBA, where you can find tons of Celtics talk. I've I've I've
been so happy with the team. I haven't been in my normal class talking,
so I'm not you know, I'm not as crazy anymore, but I'll
still give some good stats and you know, and take here in there so
you know Finals time. There's a lot of great follows, including the guy
I listening too now, but you know I'm here, I'm one of them,
so give me a follow. Yes, follow. Alex does a great
job tweeting about not just the Celtics but the entire NBA. Thank you so
much for coming on. I hope you'll allow me to bother you again over
the all season. But first, we have a best of seven final series
that I would not have even come close to predicting in the middle of this
year given how the Celtics were playing. So I'm looking I'm looking forward to
it a ton. Thanks once more for coming on, Alex meyfound Dan. Thank you