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We both know Thor. He's provided
pro bono council to Free Speech Union victims

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of cancel culture since the FSU launched, and he would love to connect with

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fellow London Calling listeners for encouragement,
laughs and community. Connect with Thor on

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LinkedIn dot com, slash in slash
Thor Halt or via his substack at Thorholt

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dot substack dot com. When Thor
isn't supporting FSU members in the eye of

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a cancelation storm, he helps others
in a tight spot. For example,

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an sme facing twenty percent redundancies worked
with Thor and within four months landed twenty

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point four million pounds worth of new
contracts, avoided redundancies and secured a ten

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00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:48,479
year project pipeline. Thor is a
trusted executive, coach and adviser for those

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looking to bring in investment or even
exit their businesses, and he has a

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strong track record of transforming professionals in
multiple sectors into confidence strategic deal winning presenters.

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Thor wo'd love to hear from you, even if you don't require his

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services at the moment, and do
please mention London Calling. You can find

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him on LinkedIn dot com slash in
slash thor halt or Thorholt dot substat dot

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com. This is London calling,
London Calling. That fictional account was intended

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to make him look good, but
now it can be cross checked against the

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source material is messages. It's going
to be used against it. It's going

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to backfire. This This has come
out while I was in the jungle.

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It had been updated out in the
first day. Oh yeah, god BlimE.

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You welcome to London calling with me
James Delibole and my very good friend

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mister Toby Young. Um, how
you doing. I'm good, James.

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I'm a bit hungover but other good. Yeah, this is this is weird

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seeing your face because we're doing this
on on zoom this time. Yeah.

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Why are we doing it on zoom? James? Well, because because I

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failed yesterday. Well I tell you
why I failed at a moment, But

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you tell me about your hangover for
us. What what was your hangover from?

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Okay, So the Free Speech Union
had a dinner yesterday for conservative MPs

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that we're hoping to assemble in a
propery speech WhatsApp group too, for legislative

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lobbying purposes. So yeah, we
had a dinner at a club and it

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went on quite late, and because
they were vote they didn't get there and

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sit down to wheat until eight thirty, and I got there at six thirty,

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so I don't know. I had
a fair amount to drink before they

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arrived. You are such a toper. And as you as you probably know,

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there's only one occasion where I really
drink, and that's when I'm when

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I'm hunting, of course, and
I am feeling so rotten today. I've

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I've got I've got this, I've
got this cold um, which which I

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think was was not helped by this
incredible day's hunting I had on Friday.

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It was just I mean, I've
had a few amazing days out hunting,

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but this was definitely one of the
best. It was. It was hallucinogenic

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um. And that there's a there's
a poem, Bye Bye Bye the eighteenth

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century poet called Thompson called the Four
Seasons, and there's a line in it

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where he describes hunting as image of
war without the danger, but that the

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guy clearly never been hunting, because
hunting is is not safe at all.

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And the stuff we were doing that
that day, we we we, I

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mean we galloped for for four miles, which is very exciting. But what

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was more intense were some of the
obstacles we were going over. And it's

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it's a it's how I emergine.
I have no desire to go to war.

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I used to when I was a
young member. It's how I emergine

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in combat is and that you find
yourself separated from the from the body of

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the of the troops as it were, the field, as their care were.

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In these little groups, you get
you get split up. Some people

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were trying to get through some wire
and I thought, I don't like the

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look at this wire, and my
horse is not I don't want to get

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tangled up. So I took a
different road and ended up going down this

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incredibly steep bank onto the road and
then and then through a gap in a

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hedge where you had to the horse
had to jump onto a concrete block,

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and and I ended up with the
hard core of the hunt, the people

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who go right at the front,
that the really crazy riders. And they

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said to me, you're part of
the gang now, And it was like

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it was like I'd passed some some
invisible initiation ceremony. And then we reached

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this It feels like an acid trip
even describing it now, and it keeps

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coming back at me that there was
this chasm ahead of us. It was

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apparently it was part of something called
the Braunston Brook his legendary in hunting circles.

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You have to yeah, I mean
you you're supposed to leap over it.

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But there's no way you can leap
over this thing. And I looked

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at it and under any normal circumstances, you get there's absolutely no way I'm

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doing that on a horse. It
is completely unsafe. It is just stupid.

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Nowhere you turn around, but you
can't because you're with the gang,

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you know, with the with the
hardcore. So you've got to do this

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crazy thing. So the guy in
front of me, he was an experienced

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like he was a master of a
hunter I think or something. He went

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down there and his force kind of
fell on him, um, sort of

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collapse in this in this this gully. And then before you he ride in

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front of me, and so you
think having to go over the trenches when

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the guy that's just gone before you
has just been shot in the head exactly

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like that. But but it's also
um, it's also intense. You sort

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of just like go with it because
you've got no option. So I picked

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what I thought would be the ideal
root for my horse, and thank goodness,

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because she's much cleverer than me,
he completely ignored me and picked his

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own route down this thing and just
did it perfectly. It's what you want

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when you're hunting a horse corn.
They're known as schoolmasters, horses that know

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better than you do how to survive. But yeah, I've been I've been

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flying ever since. I've been having
flashbacks. And the reason we're recording this

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via zoom and looking at each other
is because we recorded this podcast yesterday,

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but you recorded it in a different
room because Tiffany, your wife doesn't like

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hearing you talking about hunting, because
she's very worried that you know, you're

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going to fall off a horse and
die. All yeah, all all spouses

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You often get this with hunting that
often there's one spouse that doesn't hunt,

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maybe they don't like speed, or
they don't like horses or whatever, and

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the other spouse does hunt, and
non hunting spouse worries themselves what was themselves

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sick about what happens. But the
problem is that when you get back from

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the hunt like that. All you
want to do is talk about how insane

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it was, And of course you
can't really because the worried spouse doesn't want

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to listen. So I think it
would be a bit cruel kind of talking

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about it when she's in the office. So I went upstairs. But unfortunately

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my dodgy equipment upstairs, and Brian
said it was unusable. And Brian is

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very kindly, and Toby, I
made you know, people give you,

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give you stick sometimes, but I
have to respect you. You are a

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late night person. You've got to
hangover. I get up at seven every

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day. You get up at ten
because you go to bed about three or

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four. Yeah. No, this
is tricky for me. I mean I

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had been getting up early for the
last couple of weeks because my wife has

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been in Barbados. She went on
this kind of fabulous freebie. I think

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I talked about it last week and
left me looking after three of our children.

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The fourth gaves you big I'm at
the top while I was anyway,

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James at the top of Brownie Point
Mountain. But I came home quite late

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yesterday drunk, and I think I
may have woken her up. So now

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I'm right back at the bottom of
that man, all my credit has been

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used up. Now. You didn't
beat her up or anything. I woke

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her up. That was That was
the extent of my sin. But your

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your story about being welcome to the
kind of elite group of hunters at the

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very front, reminds me of a
slightly different story in which I went skiing

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a few years ago. As last
time I went skiing actually with a rich

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friend of mine, and he'd invited
a few people and we met up with

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a few people out there was in
Austria, in zers and my friend said,

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who wants to go skiing with a
guide? We're going off piece.

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It's going to be quite challenging.
There's going to be some powder, it'll

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be huge fun. And I said, well, me definitely put my hand

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up. And so we broke up
into these two groups and the plan was

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to meet at lunchtime, and this
rather kind of a severe Austrian guide made

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us all to do a couple of
runs so he could sort of see whether

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we were strong enough to be to
take on this challenging skiing we were going

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to do with him. And at
the end of it, everyone was apart

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from me, turned to me and
said said, don't be I don't think

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you were strong enough for the skiing
we're gone to do. You must join

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the Vica group. So I was
sent in front of all my my friends.

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I was I was dispatched. I
was excommunicated, sent to join the

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weaker group, which was deeply Humilio
James. Team James at this point nodding

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their heads and saying, of course
is in the Vico group. But can

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I say that as as the head
of Team James, I have great sympathy

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for that. I too would have
wanted to be with the strong. The

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strong group, we two would have
been rejected. But it's the story of

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my life. I think that I'm
an alpha male. But when when any

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any in truth, I ain't When
when would one have time to acquire the

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skill set to be a good off
piece scier, to be a good horseman,

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a good tennis player, a good
you know, can you say or

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anything like that? No. I
did try and learn how to sail,

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but as you say, I never
really found the time to do it.

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There are all these things that we
ought to be able to do. If

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if we play golf, I'd love
to be able to play golf. We

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need another life, don't we.
We do with a private income this time.

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Yeah, yeah, if I think
if I could live my life all

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over again, I would definitely spend
the time to become proficient at in particular

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sport. I mean, you've got
your hunting. I've got no equivalent.

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I'm just so busy. I don't
have time to and I've tried, you

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know, sort of halfheartedly to learn
how to play tennis, to learn how

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to play golf, to sail,
and never manage to kind of devote myself

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to it. So I don't have
that kind of really fun hobby in my

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life. Anyway, we should have
an ad we should definitely. Ah,

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00:11:18,519 --> 00:11:22,879
spring is in the air, Yes
it is. I saw my first primroses

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00:11:22,919 --> 00:11:28,120
only two days ago. It's almost
the end of the financial year. But

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00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:31,960
did you know that the spring budget
is coming on the fifteenth and the sun

153
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:39,200
might say controversial help to buy scheme
ends on thirty first of March. If

154
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,600
you didn't, you need to meet
Dan Gaskin, fellow skeptic, freethinker,

155
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,879
father of six, husband of one, and owner of Crest Mortgages. Dan

156
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:54,000
is an ex Royal Navy warfare officer
who has driven ships, buys companies and

157
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,919
helps people with financial conundrums because he
genuinely enjoys looking after people. Nothing Motor

158
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,279
debates Dan more than bringing fellow skeptics
financial good cheer, whether you're Team Toby

159
00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:09,399
or Team James. For help with
your house move, commercial mortgage, equity

160
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release, life assurance, or simply
to talk through a financial issue that is

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vexing you in complete confidence, call
zero one five zero two three zero zero

162
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zero vakrest Mortgages dot co dot uk
and connect with Dan LinkedIn dot com forward

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00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,240
slash in forward slash mortgages and protection. We have to say this bit to

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00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:37,440
be FCA compliant. Chress Mortgages is
a trade trading style of Epiphany Investments Limited,

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which is an appointed representative of the
Open Work Partnership, a trading style

166
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of Openwork Limited which is authorized and
regulated by the Financial con Doctor Authority.

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00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:46,279
Your house may be repossessed if you
do not keep up with repent on your

168
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,840
mortgage. Okay, so I tell
you about my week, James. Not

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00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,960
nearly as exciting as yours. But
I had a pretty busy week last week.

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I probably the highlight. Well,
I'll tell you about two bits of

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it. I won't bore you with
the whole of it. But last Monday

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I was on Jacob Riesmog's debut show
on gb News. So he's got this

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00:13:07,159 --> 00:13:11,600
new show from eight to nine Monday
to Thursday. And for our American listeners,

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Jacob Riesmog is a Conservative MP former
cabinet minister. Is distinctive because he

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00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:30,200
wears three piece suits and speaks in
a kind of undisguisedly posh voice. Even

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referred to sometimes to his nanny that
he had as a child, and I

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think has become a nanny to his
children. Anyway, he's and he's very

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sound on lots of issues, Brexit
and so forth. And he's now got

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this show on gb News and it
was his debut show and he never actually

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hosted, I don't think a television
show before. We've done a bit of

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00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,080
posting on LBC. And he's,
of course, you know, quite an

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experienced broadcaster because he's been a prominent
parliamentarian for you know, for a long

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time. But I think everyone involved
in the show was a little bit worried

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would he be able to do it, would he kind of take to this

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new medium, And his wife came
along to watch him sort of on his

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debut, and he had he had
a kind of but actually he did incredibly

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well. It was amazingly impressive to
see him. It was as though he

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was a veteran who'd been doing it
for twenty five years. It was incredibly

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slick, didn't put a foot wrong. At one point he was kind of

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reading off the auto queue and add
libbing at the same time, which is

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a really difficult skill, which you
know, even some very experienced broadcasters can't

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do because has this rolling script and
it rolled and they kind of they kind

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00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,080
of practice beforehand, so it rolls
at exactly the speed you read, so

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to add lib whilst reading the rolling
script is actually really difficult. But he

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managed to do it incredibly well.
And he had a fantastic roster of guests.

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He had David Davis, Lee Anderson, David Starkey, X Labor and

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peopled Stephen Pound and yours truly um
and it was great and and the but

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the really memorable thing, the truly
outstanding thing, is that the following day,

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James I got to thank you text
from from from Jacob for appearing on

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00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:18,679
his first show. And I've been
I've been doing TV, I think since

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probably I think my first TV appearance
was was in nineteen eighty five, and

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in all that time, in all
the hundreds, possibly thousands of television appearances

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I've made in all that time,
the first time I've ever got a thank

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you from our presenter was from Jacob
the following morning, so I was really

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impressed by that. I'm still I'm
still waiting for the thank you letter,

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but the text was good enough.
Well, Nanny obviously obviously brought him up.

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Wow. Probably I never had one
of those, so I think that

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you know, I'm rubbish thank you
letters. Yeah, I remember there's a

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There was a good joker I once
heard, which is why don't Sloane Rangers

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going for Gang Banks? Because they
they just they can't face having to write

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all the thank you ladder as the
following day. But my other highlight was

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the Free Speech Union third anniversary,
So it was our third birthday last week.

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We've actually been going for three years, if you can believe it.

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We've now got eleven thousand members,
sixteen employees, including eight full time employees.

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We've dealt with over two thousand cases, and we celebrated at the Inn

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and Out Club in Saint James's and
I made a speech and it was a

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great occasion. We invited members of
our advisory Council, our founder members.

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Did you get drunk again? It
actually helped and he got drunk again?

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James. Yeah. Anyway, that
that that was. It was nice to

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celebrate some of our successes. Well, well, well, well done.

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I'm not going to the last time
I recorded this, I had had to

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go at Jacob just because I'm really
disappointed in him. He was my great

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white hope for what I believed at
the time to be conservative values, but

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I think are just a kind of
part of the part of the style.

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But I was glancing at Twitter yesterday
and somebody pointed out something that was pretty

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inexcusable, one of the many inexcusable
things that the Jacob has done, and

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that was he was supportive of Do
you remember Neil O'Brien, that rather weird,

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sort of fascistic conservative. He's still
he's still a conservative MP. Is

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he who who led this sort of
this sort of witch hunt group designed to

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spy out incorrect thinking on the disinformation
as I think it was called, But

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actually it was actually factual information which
which didn't suit the government narrative and he

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headed this group, and I think, did you run foul of this group?

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They singled out various traffickers in misinformation
about the pandemic, and I was

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I was in very distinguished company.
I think the other journalists were I think

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Alison Pearson and Julia Hartley Brewer,
but it also included Carl Hennaghan. He

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was another person smeared as a kind
of misinformation trapper. He's the professor of

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evidence based Medicine at Oxford and got
almost everything about the pandemic exactly right.

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It also included Shanetra Gupta, who
is the I think professor of theoretical epidemiology

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at Oxford and one of the original
three signatories of the Great Barrington Declaration,

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and again I think has been retrospectively
vindicated and it's extraordinary anyway. So yeah,

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this this website that Neil O'Brien and
others set up to try and discredit

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critics of the government's pandemic response,
and it's still where it's I think it's

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called COVID nineteen faques or something.
And Alison Pearson is so cross about it

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that she's thinking of standing as an
independent in Neil O'Brien's constituents. Oh,

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I think she should. I think
I think she should too. Yeah,

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and he was, I mean it
was it was between government jobs, so

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I think he was before setting up
this website. He was a parliamentary private

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secretary to someone or other and then
he became a minister shortly afterwards. But

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it's I mean, it just does
seem improper for a conservative MP who is

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sort of in and out of the
government to set up a website to discredit

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critics of government policy. And we
don't know how the website was funded.

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Maybe it wasn't funded by taxpayers money. It probably wasn't. But disappointingly in

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the Lockdown Files, which will come
to in a minute, which is the

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series of stories in the Telegraph based
on Matt Hancock former Health secretaries WhatsApp messages

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which were handed over to the Telegraph
by Isabel oak Shot and had proved to

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be huge goldmine of stories about the
incompetence and stupidity of the government and particularly

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of Matt Hancock during the pandemic.
I was hoping that there would be something

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about you know, some some some
some messages traded with Neil O'Brien in which

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they're talking about creating this website,
but unfortunately there aren't, which is disappointing.

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But in due course, I think
he will be held to account.

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Yeah so just very briefly because it's
a kind of trivial point. But but

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Jacob Resmore, who you would have
expected to have deplored this kind of thing,

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actually actually expressed his approval of the
marvelous work that Neil Lebron had done.

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Well. Yeah, yeah, you
can talk the talk, but then

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you reveal the true, your true
nature. And I'm not afraid that he

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is part of the system. Jacob
is just another He's not one of us,

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if it is such a thing anyway, But I think I think I

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think you're I think you're too much
of a purist, as you know,

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James, when it comes to these
things. And you have to take your

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allies where you find them, and
you might not agree with them about everything,

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but if they agree with you about
certain issues and those issues are important,

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then you have to turn a blind
eye if they don't agree with you

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about other things which you consider equally
important. That's how politics work, that's

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how we get things done. Yeah, well, obviously we're going to we're

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going to disagree more about this when
we talk about tell us about this thing.

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We're going to have an AD that
first. Okay, let's have an

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00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,519
AD. We both know Thor.
He's provided pro bono council to Free Speech

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00:21:37,599 --> 00:21:42,079
Union victims of cancel culture since the
FSU launched, and he would love to

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00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:48,480
connect with fellow London calling listeners for
encouragement, laughs and community. Connect with

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00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:52,599
Thor on LinkedIn dot com, slash
in slash Thor Halt or via his substack

281
00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:59,759
at Thorholt dot substack dot com.
When Thor isn't supporting FSU members and the

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00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:03,960
i of a cancelation storm, he
helps others in a tight spot. For

283
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,519
example, an smme facing twenty percent
redundancies worked with Thor and within four months

284
00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:15,480
landed twenty point four million pounds worth
of new contracts, avoided redundancies, and

285
00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:21,240
secured a ten year project pipeline.
Thor is a trusted executive coach and advisor

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00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,559
for those looking to bring in investment
or even exit their businesses, and he

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00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:32,400
has a strong track record of transforming
professionals in multiple sectors into confidence strategic deal

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00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,640
winning presenters. Thor wou'd love to
hear from you even if you don't require

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00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,920
his services at the moment, and
do please mention London calling. You can

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00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,200
find him on LinkedIn dot com,
slash in slash, thor Halt or Thorholt

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00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:52,880
dot substack dot com. Yes,
well, when we recorded this podcast yesterday,

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we did have a fairly bad tempered
exchange. We didn't. We didn't.

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It really wasn't that. I was
actually disappointed by how I'm bad tempered.

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It was. It was very mild. I thought it was quite heated.

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No, no, we we just
disagree. But I mean, obviously

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as we're going to. But anyway, tell us, tell us what the

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thing is? So um so um
okay. So Isabel oak Shot is a

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fairly well known journalist. She's written
several books. She's worked for different papers.

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Um, she's she, but she's
she's a brexiteer, she was a

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00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:37,680
lockdown is a lockdown skeptic. And
Matt Hancock ex Health Secretary. So Matt

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Hancock what isn't was an ambitious conservative
politician who ran for leader in twenty nineteen,

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didn't do terribly well, but became
the Health secretary in Boris Johnson's government

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and was the Health Secretary for the
duration of the pandemic and almost the duration

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anywhere, and had to stand down
when he was caught out in a sex

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scandal. So he was photographed snogging
for our American listeners. That's making out

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with an aid of his called Gina, who was an old university friend of

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00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:22,000
his, dating back to their time
together at Oxford. And he's married,

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was married to quite young children,
so this was a bit of a scandal

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and he had to stand down and
then in an effort to rehabilitate himself.

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Some of our listeners will remember because
we discussed it at the time, he

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appeared on I'm a Celebrity, Get
Me out of Here, which everyone thought

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00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:44,799
was a terrible mistake because it's so
humiliating and undignified. But actually he did

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00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:48,960
reasonably well after doing a number of
Bushtucker Trials, better than some of the

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00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:55,200
other contestants anyway, and he came
I think third, and did actually succeed

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00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,759
in sort of rehabilitating himself and is
now doing another reality show I think it's

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00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:06,920
the can for Channel four him which
he does the sas initiation course. But

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just as just as he seemed to
be reinventing himself as a kind of professional

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00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:15,519
reality show contestant and possibly you know, a chat show on gb News in

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his future. Isabelle, who'd been
given by him over a hundred thousand text

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00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,440
messages WhatsApp messages on his phone as
an aid memoir when she was employed by

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00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:33,960
him to ghost write a memoir called
the I Think the Pandemic Diaries, which

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00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:40,559
was published shortly after his appearance on
I'm a Celeb. She has now given

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00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,599
these WhatsApp messages to the Telegraph and
they are just a kind of Teuton Carmen's

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00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:52,799
tomb of embarrassing stories, not just
embarrassing to Matt Hancock, but to lots

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00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:56,559
of people he exchanged messages with.
And we can go on actually to talk

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00:25:56,559 --> 00:26:03,119
about one of the reactions interesting interest
by rival newspapers and broadcasters like the BBC

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to this sensational story, which I
think is the scoop of the decade.

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The reaction is not to what the
story reveals, which is the staggering incompetence

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and stupidity of the government and the
vanity of Matt Hancock. Not to say,

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crikey, we got this wrong the
government. We were criticizing the government

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at the time for not doing enough
turns out they were doing far more than

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they needed to, and all of
these decisions which the government claimed were based

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on the science, such as the
decision to extend the mask mandate in schools

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to classrooms, weren't based on the
science as we claimed at the time,

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00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,920
but actually in that case, we
were just bounced into it by Nicholas Urgent

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00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:48,960
who announced it, and we didn't
want to have a fight with us,

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00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,960
so we decided to do it too. And all sorts of revelations along similar

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00:26:53,000 --> 00:27:00,480
lines about the decision making process which
led to this grotesque interference in our liberty,

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00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,599
and lots of messages between Matt Hancock
and people like Simon Case, the

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00:27:03,599 --> 00:27:10,640
Cabinet Secretary cackling seemingly gleefully about the
misery they were inflicting on people. At

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00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,880
one point, I think there's an
exchange between Matt Hancock and Simon Case about

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00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:23,240
how they've people people coming off flights
from countries which aren't in the Green Zone

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but in the Amber or Red Zone
because of the prevalence of infection in the

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countries they've come from, have to
quarantine for fourteen days in these ghastly shoebox

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hotel rooms, and they were cackling
about the fact that people would be coming

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off planes having sat in first class
and then have to be forced to endure

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an appalling fourteen days eating terrible food
in these tiny rooms, often with their

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families, you know. Often they'd
flown back to kind of meet with loved

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ones, you know, who were
dying, and or come to a wedding,

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if they were allowed to go to
a wedding. But they were,

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they were glee fully celebrating the fact
that these poor folks were having to quarantine

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for fourteen days. It was just
a horrible insight into the kind of the

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00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:17,240
officials and senior politicians who were drunk
on power as Britain descended into authoritarianism for

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a kind of eighteen month period between
what March twenty twenty and July twenty twenty

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one, in the course of which
there were three lockdowns. Anyway, I

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think it's a great story, and
the Telegraph have been kind of running with

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it on an almost on a daily
basis, if not an hourly basis.

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The Telegraph news hacks have this wonderful
term to describe you probably know this jenes

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00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,680
Us to work for the Telegraph,
to describe a scoop They describe a good

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00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,880
story as a marmalade dropper, the
idea being that the typical telegraph reader is

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00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,839
eating his toast with marmalade on it, reads this story in his morning paper

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and it's so shocking, so startling
that he drops his toast and it falls

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marmalade side down, and I think, you know, there's just this.

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00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:04,480
There's just been one marmalade dropper after
another in the Telegraph as a result of

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00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:11,680
this trove of WhatsApp messages that Isabelle
has handed over to them. M Well,

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00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:15,119
obviously we're going to disagree on this
because what you describe as the scoop

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00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:19,799
of the decade I would call a
big fat, nothing burger of a story.

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And in fact, I think it's
it's worse than that. I think

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it's a form of disinformation. It's
it's it's a massive distraction. Um.

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00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:36,079
For example, there was I remember
the first day that the first day's headline

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story was that Matt Hancock had disregarded
the advice of the Chief Medical Officer,

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Chris Witty regarding the need to test
people going into te care homes, and

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00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:56,720
this was presented as as a kind
of an irresponsible minister not listening to the

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00:29:56,839 --> 00:30:03,920
experts. Now, I would dispute
that analysis that this was of any significance

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00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,839
because actually, you know, and
I know because we've written about this a

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00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:11,680
lot, the PCR tests were next
to useless. I mean that certainly they

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00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,839
would have made had suppose Matt Hancock
had tested every single person who had gone

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00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,599
into a care home with you know, ten times with a PCR tests,

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00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:25,680
it would have made no difference to
the death stats. The real reason that

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00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,720
so many people died in care homes
was the over overprescription of Medazzo Lamb,

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00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:37,920
the death the death pathway drug which
eases your your final moments by restricting your

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00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:44,000
breeding, but also effectively finishes you
off, which was massively overprescribed, brought

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00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,920
in quantity under under Matt Hancock's aegis. I don't see Medazzo Lamb being mentioned

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00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,839
in these these these dodgy exchanges,
which which leads me to question whether we

385
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,759
are being given the whole picture.
We've also got Isabelle Oakshot, who was

386
00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:03,640
denied that there any issue surrounding Medazzo
Lamb. She's actually so she is party

387
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:10,119
pre in this particular story. Let's
not forget that she ghost wrote Matt Matt

388
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,920
Hancock's book and presumably profited by it
before then deciding on this kind of It

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00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:21,240
strikes me that more likely this has
all been been been pre arranged to distract

390
00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:26,480
from the truth about what happened in
the last three years, which is essentially

391
00:31:27,079 --> 00:31:36,799
that the reason that people were forced
to have miserable times in their in quarantine

392
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,960
centers after their first class flights or
whatever, their flights from abroad to come

393
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,599
and see dying relatives, the reason
that you see in these emails Matt Hancock

394
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:56,160
conspiring with his extremely spivy, dubious
aids and with sinister people like Simon Case,

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00:31:56,279 --> 00:32:00,920
the head of the cabinet officer,
which is a very very dodgy deetcht

396
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,359
manifesting of the deep state. You
can why these people are talking about how

397
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:09,920
to hype up the supposed pandemic,
how to scare people more, is because

398
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,240
they knew all alone that this was
not a real pandemic, that the people

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00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,400
were not dying in any greater numbers
than they had been in an average bad

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00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:27,880
flu year, that this was a
confection designed to force people to take this

401
00:32:28,039 --> 00:32:32,440
experimental mr NA therapy, these vaccines
which hadn't been tested, which hadn't gone

402
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:37,640
through their trial phase. That is
the real scandal, the fact that people

403
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,119
have been been dying and injured as
a result of this, this this alleged

404
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,880
vaccine which wasn't a vaccine which they
were coerced into taking. And you take

405
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,759
a step back, and you look
at why this happened, and you look

406
00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:55,839
at the event I keep mentioning in
twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen event two oh

407
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:01,839
one, which was sponsored by the
John's Hopkins which received a billion dollars in

408
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,319
funding, a billion dollars in funding
from the Bill and melind Against Foundation.

409
00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:14,400
It planned out the alleged pandemic which
wasn't a pandemic. The purpose all this,

410
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,240
by the way, was co founded
by the World Economic Forum. It

411
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:24,519
I'm getting a lot of this from
a sub stack by somebody called Ego Ego

412
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:30,960
Should off I G O R C
h U d O V. Very good

413
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:36,079
piece which writes in language kind of
team toe you can understand, which is

414
00:33:36,119 --> 00:33:39,559
why I I sort of know this
stuff, but it's nice to see it

415
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:45,640
laid out clearly and undramatically by Ego
Should. A recent piece by him in

416
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,680
response to Egypius's pieces. Yes,
yeah it is. Yeah, we ran

417
00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:57,079
that piece by Egypius in the Daily
Skeptic, and we've run Egypius's response to

418
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:00,359
we ran it yesterday. Yeah.
No, it's an interesting bait. So

419
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:04,240
Egypius, like me, is a
cock up guy. And yeah, I

420
00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:07,199
think he shit bed on that particular
because because he had been barely found up

421
00:34:07,199 --> 00:34:10,000
to that point. But yeah,
so should have points points out that,

422
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,719
I mean, you're aware of this
stuff. It's not like I'm telling you

423
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,880
stuff you don't know. You know
about Event two one, which which which

424
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:22,840
war game the pandemic, which was
then rolled out from twenty twenty onwards when

425
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:32,280
the Patrick Valance, the then head
of Chief Scientists now has been given his

426
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,079
special reward from the World Health Organization
is now their chief scientific officer. I

427
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:42,519
think something like that that they change
the definition of pandemic to scare people.

428
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,519
They conducted this, this media blitz, this this kind of military grained syop

429
00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:52,199
on the British people to persuade them
that that this pandemic was more serious than

430
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:55,159
it was. It terrified people out
of their wits. It's suppressed with the

431
00:34:55,199 --> 00:35:02,440
help of big tech. Any story
written by by skeptics questioning that the narrative.

432
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:08,239
So the government and the populace were
railroad roaded in this particular direction by

433
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:16,199
this bill Gates funded WWF funded machine, a big farmer funded machine which steered

434
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:22,440
people in a particular direction. The
MP's like Matt Hancock were just helpless stooges.

435
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,440
We didn't need to read these emails
to know that Matt Hancock is a

436
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:32,920
dick, that MP's are venal incompetent
bullying power craze. We knew all this

437
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:42,239
already. I've been saying this from
ages. This Alison Isabelic shop league reveals

438
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,159
absolutely nothing. It distracts people from
the real stories, which are Medazzela murders

439
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:52,760
coordinated because it wasn't just written by
the way did this. It was every

440
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:59,000
country in the world apart from Sweden, this coordinated campaign to lock countries down

441
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,599
and to bull lead them into taking
this vaccine that isn't a vaccine they didn't

442
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:07,960
need and ended up killing them.
That's the scandal. This is just Matt

443
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,440
Hancock is neither him nor there.
We knew that already. Well. Obviously

444
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:17,320
I disagree about almost everything you've just
said, James, but starting with your

445
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:25,719
first point about how why should we
be in any way outraged that Matt Hancock

446
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:32,840
ignored Chris Witty, the Chief Medical
Officers advice that patients being discharged from hospitals

447
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,320
into care homes should be tested to
make sure they're negative before being discharged.

448
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:45,480
The reason that scandalous isn't because that
might have actually prevented deaths in care homes,

449
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:49,320
though I don't know. The PCR
test is wholly unreliable, so it

450
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,079
might actually have prevented some deaths in
care homes. But the reason that scandalous,

451
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:58,119
I don't think you need to have
faith in the efficacy of the PCR

452
00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:01,559
test in order to be scandalized by
that. It's scandalous because Matt Hancock claimed

453
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:06,960
at the time, as did every
other government minister, that they were following

454
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,159
the science, that they were just
following the advice of their scientific and medical

455
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:16,119
advisors. That was their shield,
that was their condom. And it turns

456
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:22,920
out he wasn't doing that. And
he talked about putting this protective ring,

457
00:37:22,039 --> 00:37:28,199
this ring of steel around care homes, and it turns out it wasn't actually

458
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,159
a ring of steel. It was
a rubber ring with a hole in it

459
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:37,599
anyway, Medazzolan I actually have looked
into that. James I spoke to Pelliative

460
00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:42,599
care nurse about that. I said, it is the fact that medazzo lan

461
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:51,199
was prescribed used more often during the
pandemic, evidence that people, particularly people

462
00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:55,679
in care homes, were put on
a kind of pathway that led eventually to

463
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,880
death. And this drug was used
because it eases the path sage to death

464
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:06,320
form of euthanasia. And this nurse
anywhere, this Pelliative Canners said, no,

465
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,480
it's actually a standard drug we use
when elderly people are having breathing difficulties.

466
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:16,119
We're not using it to euthanize people. That was overprescribed because more people

467
00:38:16,159 --> 00:38:22,840
than usual had breathing difficulties because of
the prevalence of COVID nineteen. Anyway,

468
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,239
she didn't think that you believe that, well, I trust, I trust

469
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,519
that particular source she's party pre anyway, I think I think I don't think

470
00:38:32,519 --> 00:38:38,239
there can be any doubt about the
authenticity of these WhatsApp messages. I don't

471
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,880
think they were created as part of
a cover up to conceal the fact that

472
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:51,599
there was this kind of dark conspiracy
unfolding. They certainly seem completely authentic,

473
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,679
not least because they're so embarrassing for
everyone concerned. I mean, if Matt

474
00:38:54,719 --> 00:39:00,800
Hancock was still in the cabinet,
he'd have to resign. As you know,

475
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:07,039
almost every story that the Telegraph publishes
based on this cash of documents would

476
00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:12,599
be enough to force Matt Hancock to
resign from the cabinet. He may even

477
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,199
face criminal prosecutions as a result of
some of what's been revealed. I mean,

478
00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:20,880
I don't know, but I think
it would certainly wouldn't rule out the

479
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:28,159
possibility that he may face a criminal
prosecution for some of the malfeasance revealed in

480
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,599
these WhatsApp messages, so that I
don't think there can be any doubt about

481
00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:36,320
their authenticity. And the impression you
get from reading these messages, reading the

482
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,320
stories in the Telegraph is that there
wasn't a conspiracy, There wasn't a plan.

483
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:46,000
It was just the usual political clown
show ministers and officials trying to exploit

484
00:39:46,119 --> 00:39:51,880
a crisis in order to advance their
careers, in order to attract favorable press

485
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:57,519
coverage, in order to discredit their
political enemies. And it sort of it

486
00:39:57,639 --> 00:40:02,639
shows how you know the re and
all all these ministers in different countries around

487
00:40:02,679 --> 00:40:07,119
the world reacted in a similar way. Was largely because they all saw it

488
00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:13,760
as an opportunity not just to indulge
their kind of fantasies of power, but

489
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:19,039
also to advance themselves in various ways, to promote themselves, to to to

490
00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:24,440
to to to outdo their rivals in
the kind of jockeying for position and status

491
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:31,840
and power within their kind of counting. It sort of it to me.

492
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:38,440
It absolutely confirms that the whole thing
was just a clown show, the usual

493
00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:45,719
political cock up idiots and incompetence,
lurching from one crisis to the next,

494
00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:50,320
seeing seizing on opportunities where they arose, being overwhelmed by events to the next

495
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,079
moment. It's just it seems to
me. It confirms, absolutely confirms the

496
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:59,679
cock up explanation for what happened.
They must have been responding to some explanation.

497
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:04,199
I mean you presumably, except they
were responding to something. Is it

498
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,800
your case that this was a genuine
pandemic and you and you're going to ignore

499
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,920
event to a one. You're going
to ignore the role of the World World

500
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:15,199
Health Organization funded by China and Bill
Gates, and you're going to ignore all

501
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,960
the evidence of the World Economic Forum
in all this, and you're just to

502
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,480
say, it's just just all these
all these government ministers seizing the opportunity to

503
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:30,280
see to make their mark and be
authoritarians, and and that's it. It's

504
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,400
just just kind of yeah, I
think you're you know, you're, you're,

505
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,599
you're seizing on all these things.
And you know, adding two and

506
00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:44,679
two and getting five, I think
I think that that that for there to

507
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:51,239
have been a conspiracy to explain the
events of the last three years would require

508
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:59,000
a degree of coordination and planning and
world foresight, which they know it's they

509
00:41:59,039 --> 00:42:04,360
cannot possibly have possessed. And we
ever been if you've ever been close to

510
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,719
power, James, if you've ever
if you've ever kind of someone someone said

511
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:12,280
to me who who'd been to Davos. They said, I met this person

512
00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:15,840
a couple of weeks ago. They
said they'd been in the room with the

513
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:22,760
kind of key decision makers at the
at a World Economic Forum event, ministers

514
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,440
and CEOs and billionaires from around the
world, discussing a particular issue. And

515
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,960
he said, the staggering thing,
the shocking thing wasn't that they were these

516
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:37,719
kind of super intelligent masterminds who were
planning how to control the world for their

517
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:43,159
own benefit. He said, the
shocking thing was how unbelievably stupid and ill

518
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,800
informed and generally incompetent they all were. He said, if anyone could actually

519
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:52,440
be in that room, they would
be they would be absolutely astonished by how

520
00:42:52,800 --> 00:43:00,599
stupid and idiotic all these supposedly brilliant, successful people are. And I completely

521
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:05,039
believe that. And it's a fantasy
to imagine that there were these kind of

522
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:10,920
diabolical masterminds dictating events like puppet masters
behind the scenes. You're you're imagine it.

523
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:17,039
You're attributing far too much ability to
people like Klaushfarb who were just vainglorious

524
00:43:17,079 --> 00:43:21,920
idiots. I think I think I've
explained pretty well, and I don't think

525
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:27,119
you need to be a particularly insane
conspiracy theorist to look to know that there

526
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:30,440
is an organization called the World Health
Organization, and to look at the details

527
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,960
of event to a one I think
I think the other it actually it actually

528
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,480
happened. But look in front of
me, I just just re your medazolam.

529
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,800
I've got this other amazing substact by
the Daily Beagle, and I've gone

530
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:50,320
in front of me. The prescription
figures for meddazo LAMB ten milligram stroke two

531
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:55,760
Emerald solution for injection amples by all
regional teams across the UK, and there

532
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:06,320
is a massive spike in round between
January and July twenty twenty where it spikes

533
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,719
from from below four k to well
above six K. Of these of these

534
00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:19,159
medazolan doses, which are which are
essentially that would finish you off and coincidentally

535
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:27,000
or maybe not, the number of
deaths of people in this is from a

536
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:32,360
Office of National Statistics. Seventeen thousand, three hundred and sixteen patients died in

537
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:38,280
England with dementia and Alzheimer's disease,
nearly three times more than expected. Now,

538
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,519
you can argue that that something needed
to be done to to finish off

539
00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:47,119
people in you know, that's not
the argument. The argument is that correlation

540
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:53,199
is not causation. And the reason
more medazzy land was prescribed during that period

541
00:44:53,280 --> 00:45:00,159
is because there were more people experiencing
breathing difficulties because of you are you We're

542
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:05,159
actually buying into the narrative that this
this was that do you do you let

543
00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:07,559
me ask you? Well, I've
actually I've spoken to you believe the pandemic

544
00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:10,920
was real. I do believe the
pandemic was real. Yeah do you?

545
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,400
I do. You don't believe it
was. It was a fabrication, despite

546
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:22,079
despite by the data demonstrates that it
was no more, no, no worse

547
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:27,360
than a you know, I think, I think, I think form for

548
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:32,519
large sways of the population, it
was the infection fatality rate was comparable to

549
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,280
a bad flu. But for people
who were vulnerable, who had underlying medical

550
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,360
conditions, who who were quite elderly, Um, I think there was a

551
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,440
genuine vulnerability, and I think the
way we should have responded to that was

552
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:51,519
the response set out in the Great
Barrington Declaration focused protection. I think it

553
00:45:51,559 --> 00:45:53,599
was a real pandemic. There were
people who were genuinely vulnerable, and we

554
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:59,679
should have done more to protect them. And we shouldn't have wasted enormous resources

555
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:04,119
and time at great cost to people's
mental health, to the economy, and

556
00:46:04,159 --> 00:46:08,679
so forth, by trying to protect
everyone, including those who weren't remotely vulnerable

557
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,920
to this particular virus. But I
mean, I think, I think,

558
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,360
I think it was in competence.
It was cock up. It wasn't conspiracy.

559
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,039
There was a genuine threat, and
it was just completely mismanaged. Just

560
00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:23,039
one more, one more thing you
picked me up on. The really bad

561
00:46:23,079 --> 00:46:30,840
thing that that Matt Hancock did was
that he ignored the science. And you

562
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,480
know I'm not saying that. No, no, no, no, no,

563
00:46:32,519 --> 00:46:37,840
you're misunderstanding. He claimed he claimed
to be following the side. Turned

564
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,000
out that he wasn't whether the science. Whether I agree with you, there

565
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:46,440
was no such thing as the science. Sciences in a constant flux, and

566
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:51,559
it's developing all the time, and
there was no overwhelming consensus about the best

567
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:55,840
way to mitigate Your point is the
trivial one that he ignored this this he

568
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:00,840
claimed to be following this imaginary thing, but he wasn't follow the imaginary thing,

569
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,639
which doesn't matter any makers. You
and I know it wasn't the science

570
00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:06,400
at all. There's no such thing
as the science. Yeah, I think,

571
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,719
I think. I think the government, the government's the government the government's

572
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,360
excuse their protective shield, not just
man Hancock, but but Boris Johnson to

573
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:21,280
everyone and all of them. They
all claim that the reason they had to

574
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:29,280
interfere in our liberty on an unprecedented
scale, to lock us in our homes,

575
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,320
to prevent us seeing our loved ones, prevent us going to weddings and

576
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:36,320
funerals, to quarantine us when we
return from traveling, and so on and

577
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,840
so forth. Their excuse for doing
all of these things was that they were

578
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:47,000
following the science. Now, at
the time I challenged whether the science actually

579
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:52,000
did dictate that response and could justify
what they were doing and were too.

580
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:59,599
But the point is that that it
turns out we now know from these WhatsApp

581
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:02,400
messages and other sources that they weren't
following the science. But we knew them

582
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,599
making it up. We knew then
two years ago. We knew there were

583
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:09,039
lines. Well, we think that's
what'm saying. It's a big thing.

584
00:48:09,079 --> 00:48:14,199
We thought we knew it. But
this is documentary evidence that they were misleading

585
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,480
us when they claimed that they were
always following the science. And that's what's

586
00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:22,679
important, not because there was such
a thing as the science which they could

587
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:31,440
have followed and they didn't know.
Because their excuse for this unprecedented authoritarianism was

588
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:37,119
that it was just they were just
faithfully doing the bidding of their scientific ad

589
00:48:37,159 --> 00:48:38,960
vices. It turns out they weren't, But they knew that they weren't.

590
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:45,119
They knew that they weren't yees,
so so okay, and you think that

591
00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:51,719
that but they did it because it
just like fed into their authoritarian instincts and

592
00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:54,159
that they just they went with it. Yeah, well, I think I

593
00:48:54,159 --> 00:48:57,519
think, I think, I think
to be fair to them, James,

594
00:48:57,559 --> 00:49:01,559
I think in some cases fair to
them, they've just gone and they've just

595
00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:06,360
gone destroyed. Because I think we
have to be quite forendics. They've destroyed

596
00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:13,159
killed people, they've they've killed children. They come on, they injected children

597
00:49:13,159 --> 00:49:17,360
with stuff that killed children that children
did not need to take. They bled

598
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:22,440
them. They they destroyed children's education. And you think we should be sympathetic

599
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,079
towards bastards. I think, I
think. I think that if we're going

600
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:31,000
to hold them to account, we
need to be very careful that the crimes

601
00:49:31,079 --> 00:49:37,679
we accuse them of, our crimes
they actually committed. We can't inflate the

602
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,440
crimes they committed, because then they'll
be able to prove their innocence. They'll

603
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,760
say, you've accused me of these
three things. I'm innocent to two of

604
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,280
them, and in that way escape
responsibility for the third thing, which they

605
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:52,599
aren't innocent of. I think we
have to be forensic and careful about about

606
00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:54,519
about what we accuse them of.
I think when it comes to the vaccines,

607
00:49:54,559 --> 00:49:58,719
I know you think that you called
it the death jab, the clock

608
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:04,920
shot, whatever, and you think
that it's absolutely transparently clear that the vaccines

609
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:12,079
are harmful and so forth. But
I genuinely think that at the time.

610
00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:15,880
Well, first of all, I
think you're exaggerating how harmful the vaccines are.

611
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,960
I mean, you know, I've
always would take that no, but

612
00:50:19,039 --> 00:50:22,920
that's because I'm under sixty five.
I don't have any underlying medical conditions.

613
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,159
I think if I did it for
a million, I might I might take

614
00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:30,280
one, because I do think they
do provide you with some protection if you

615
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,400
are in a vulnerable group. But
I'm not in a vulnerable group, and

616
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,559
that's why. But I think,
Jake, But the point is, people

617
00:50:36,599 --> 00:50:43,079
like Matt Hancock, actually I think, genuinely believed that the vaccines were beneficial,

618
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:47,039
would prevent people from getting the disease, was our way out of the

619
00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:51,960
pandemic. I mean throughout the kind
of that period. If you look at

620
00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:55,519
the WhatsApp messages, he wants to
be associated with the vaccine. He wants

621
00:50:55,559 --> 00:51:00,559
to be he calls himself mister vaccine. He's kind of very jealous so everyone

622
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:06,320
else taking credit for it. He's
he's annoyed with the head of the Vaccine

623
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,039
Task Force for kind of not moving
faster and for being too cautious, and

624
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:16,639
he actually oversaw I think the use
of vaccines was for destined for India in

625
00:51:16,679 --> 00:51:22,679
the UK, depriving people in the
developing world of the supposed benefits of the

626
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:28,920
vaccines. But he clearly believed that
they were, you know, a miracle

627
00:51:29,039 --> 00:51:31,639
cube to this disease. He wasn't. He wasn't, he wasn't enlisted in

628
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:39,519
some kind of horrid conspiracy by big
Farmer titles. I've got to go riding.

629
00:51:39,679 --> 00:51:45,559
So we're just going to do a
very quick culture corner, So let's

630
00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:49,880
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631
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632
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633
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634
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635
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636
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637
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638
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639
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time which kept my eyes glued to
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640
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Sari by Philip Tucker on Amazon.
As one newspaper put it, this is

641
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a startlingly adroit, angry and astute
political thriller. The Jasmin Sari gets it

642
00:52:55,079 --> 00:52:59,800
and you should get it too.
Yes, quickly, very quick quick,

643
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,039
as I have a culture corner,
What do you been watching? Um?

644
00:53:02,159 --> 00:53:07,639
Well, I watched UM. I
watched the first episode of season three of

645
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:13,199
The Mandalorian, which is on Disney
plast. It's a Star Wars spin off

646
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:21,239
TV show and it's pretty poor.
The central character recommendation, I'm not recommending

647
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:22,440
it. You just ask me what
I watched, not what I'm recommending.

648
00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:29,199
And the central character, the Mandalorian, he's this kind of samurai, kind

649
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,960
of kind of lone gun slinger Clint
Eastwood man with no name type character,

650
00:53:34,199 --> 00:53:39,920
and it's clearly inspired by westerns.
He has a mask on which it's almost

651
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:44,719
like kabuki, so you know,
there's not much acting involved. He just

652
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,840
kind of lumbers around with this kind
of mask, completely helmet, completely concealing

653
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,679
his face. It's like watching a
kind of drama in which all the characters

654
00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:57,840
are wearing motorcycle helmets with the visors
down. But the reason I watched it

655
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,360
is because my fourteen year old son
is a fan of The Mandalorian. He's

656
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:06,320
a big star Wars freak, and
he wants to watch the rest of the

657
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:07,559
series with me. So he said, look, Dad, I've watched episode

658
00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:10,039
one. Watch episode one, and
we can watch the rest of it together.

659
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:15,079
And I think that's probably the last
time James, a child of mine,

660
00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:16,880
will want to watch something on television
with me. I don't get that

661
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,239
from the fifteen year old, the
seventeen year old, certainly not from the

662
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,760
nineteen year old. So I think, well, I have to take this

663
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,280
opportunity. This is my last opportunity
to watch something with one of my children.

664
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,280
So I'm going to endure the rest
of season three of The Mandalorian.

665
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,199
Yeah, you have to grab those
moments while you can, and there's absolutely

666
00:54:35,199 --> 00:54:37,159
there's almost nothing that my children will
watch for me now, I mean,

667
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,800
especially if it's got sex in it. When I agree with him, I

668
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:45,239
hate and I think with sex in
it, that's really embarrassing. I'm increasingly

669
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,400
averse to any form of extreme violence. The only thing that we can agree

670
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:54,079
on watching is that Formula one Drive
to Survive series, which is which is

671
00:54:54,119 --> 00:55:00,920
weird because I think the Formula one
is about the most boring sport the world.

672
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,000
I went. I once went to
a I'm sure I've mentioned this before.

673
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,719
I got flown in the helicopter to
Silverston and sat in you know,

674
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:12,960
the posh enclosure where you drink champagne
and you eat lobster. But the problem

675
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,199
is you're eating lobster and drinking champagne
to the sound of yo yo. There's

676
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:22,119
no escape. And there are people
in hats everywhere with peaked hats who love

677
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:27,599
this kind of stuff and they don't
mind the sort of twenty hour traffic jams

678
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:30,000
to get in and out and stuff, and they think it's great and they

679
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,039
call themselves petrol heads. It's really, really, really boring. It's getting

680
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,000
real. But F one Drive to
Survive makes it interesting because you care about

681
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,119
the people behind the wheel and the
people in the teams and stuff. So

682
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,079
that's my okay drive to survive.
My fourteen year old also watches that is

683
00:55:46,119 --> 00:55:49,519
also encouraging me to watch that so
we can watch it together, so I

684
00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:52,320
may watch that, James. I
also watched episode one of a new series

685
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:58,039
on Disney Plus called Fleischmann Is in
Trouble, which I'm going to give a

686
00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:05,280
cautiously recommend, And so it's about
this Jewish doctor in his early forties.

687
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,000
He's just been divorced by his wife. He has two young children. He's

688
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:14,000
had to move out of their fabulous
penthouse Upper east Side apartment into a shoebox

689
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:19,559
apartment, and he's initially extremely depressed
about the turn his life has taken.

690
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,960
And then he discovers dating apps and
you know, as a as a college

691
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:28,199
student, he never got a second
glance from an attractive woman. He's never

692
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:32,039
thought of himself as in any way
sexually desirable. But now he's a divorced,

693
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:38,599
forty something senior medic living on the
Upper east Side, He's suddenly got

694
00:56:38,599 --> 00:56:45,920
a corner copia of sexual opportunities before
him via these dating apps with you know,

695
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:51,079
mostly divorced women either his age or
older. And on the subject of

696
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:58,119
flesh creepingly embarrassing sex, Oh my
god, this is kind of woke sex

697
00:56:58,159 --> 00:57:01,679
on Telly James. It's not sex
with gonna supermodels, attractive kind of girls,

698
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:06,519
you know, age sort of thirty
and under. It sex with much

699
00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:12,119
older women with different body shapes.
It's sort of you're sort of it's you're

700
00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:15,199
encouraged to watch it to become more
body positive and to broaden your mind about

701
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:22,840
what constitutes an attractive body. So
there's an awful lot of unwatchable sex in

702
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,679
Fleishman is in Trouble, So that
part I don't like. But but actually

703
00:57:25,679 --> 00:57:32,519
the kind of satirical observations about kind
of life on the Upper East Side in

704
00:57:32,599 --> 00:57:37,679
New York for the kind of well
off it is very good, very accurate.

705
00:57:37,719 --> 00:57:42,800
He has this the best thing in
it. He has this absolutely ghastly

706
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,280
ten year old daughter. So when
he picks her up from school, she

707
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,679
refuses to get on the bus because
she doesn't want her any of her friends

708
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,239
to see her getting on the bus. She kind of screams at him to

709
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,480
get an uber to the kind of
you know, half mile journey to their

710
00:57:57,519 --> 00:58:00,639
apartment, and when she's at a
friend's house, they have to go back

711
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:05,280
to his place with her friend.
She's too embarrassed because his apartment is so

712
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,360
small compared to her friend. She's
kind of this status obsessed, kind of

713
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:15,119
socially ambitious ten year old monster,
and she's by far the best thing in

714
00:58:15,159 --> 00:58:19,199
it. And I think I'm going
to carry on watching it just because it's

715
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,920
it's kind of that you get My
impression is I don't know that world terribly

716
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:23,880
well, but I had a little
bit of exposure to it and I lived

717
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:30,360
in New York. Is that it's
it's satirical skewering of Upper East Side,

718
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:35,880
upper middle class Jewish New York life
is very accurate. It's like Seinfeldt,

719
00:58:36,039 --> 00:58:39,440
but the characters are about ten years
older and without the jokes. Right,

720
00:58:39,719 --> 00:58:43,920
Okay, um, yes, I'm
not sure that I care what happens in

721
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:45,519
New York anymore. I used to
think New York was an interesting thing.

722
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:50,079
But but but by the way,
my kids used to do that to me

723
00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:52,280
when when they're at their fancy,
fancy boarding schools. I used to have

724
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:58,360
to park the car like because I
got a crappy, beaten up car and

725
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,320
I used to have to park it
like up the hill so that so that

726
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:06,519
their their friends would not see what
kind of crap car that drove. So

727
00:59:06,599 --> 00:59:12,639
that's the terrible price you have to
pay for sending one. One final recommendation,

728
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:20,840
which is that the thing on Netflix
about the invention of Spotify, um

729
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,280
is good. Yeah. No,
I when you mentioned this in our aborted

730
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:30,239
podcast called Playlist, the Playlist,
Playlist the Playlist, I looked it up

731
00:59:30,239 --> 00:59:36,440
and it's got a hundred on Rotten
Tamatas and it's everyone absolutely raves about it.

732
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,920
It's a Swedish right. Yeah,
it's definitely not worth a hundred,

733
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:44,440
but it's definitely good enough to watch. It shows the invention of Spotify from

734
00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:49,599
different perspectives. So in they of
Daniel Eck, the kind of trained spotter

735
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:55,719
ish that techi programmer guy who thought
out the idea, and then the lawyer

736
00:59:55,800 --> 01:00:00,119
who who worked out the business model, and the and the head of Swedish

737
01:00:00,159 --> 01:00:07,320
Sony who was initially repelled by the
idea that you should be giving music out

738
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,679
free on the internet when they that
wasn't their business model, and you know,

739
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:15,639
the exploitation of of of hard,
hard working rock stars and anyway,

740
01:00:15,679 --> 01:00:20,880
it's it's a good story. Yeah
no. Um. I think probably one

741
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:25,800
of the one of the kind of
most entertaining genres on tv UM is a

742
01:00:27,199 --> 01:00:36,159
miniseries about founders of these kind of
very successful companies, often which often kind

743
01:00:36,159 --> 01:00:37,679
of then kind of went went,
went, kind of belly up. So

744
01:00:37,719 --> 01:00:42,639
there was the there was one about
Elizabeth Holmes, the founder of Theronos.

745
01:00:42,679 --> 01:00:45,400
I thought that was very good.
There was one about Uber, the creator

746
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:49,760
of Uber. There was another one
about the guy who set up We Work.

747
01:00:50,119 --> 01:00:52,440
So this is this is I think
a very very it's a really good

748
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:57,000
genre and they're often very good,
and I'm really looking forward now to watching

749
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,440
the playlists. That sounds, of
course, but there's probably it is probably

750
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:04,159
part of the the programming to brainwashers
into thinking that these these tech companies are

751
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,480
good. Well no, because they
often in the case of Theanos, I

752
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:14,400
mean it completely discredited Elizabeth Hermes,
it was all just a massive com and

753
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:20,800
ditto with We Work, it all
went completely belly up, lost Hugh billions

754
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,880
of dollars to the gulls. That
that's quite good. Up the disaster like

755
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:31,159
far up, what's called disastrous?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

756
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,960
right, I'm want to go and
get on a horse. Now, okay,

757
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:43,280
thank you for re doing this and
okay, sorry, let me introduce

758
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:50,320
again. Let me reintroduce our new
sponsor, sal da Her sal da Her,

759
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:55,440
CFA who listens to us in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Sal is Team Toby

760
01:01:55,519 --> 01:02:01,639
and backs the Doughty FSU They're not
the Tragic QPR. Sal also enjoys the

761
01:02:01,719 --> 01:02:09,119
delling pod listeners check out Sal's podcast
Angel in Boston. It's mostly on building

762
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:14,800
technology startups, but it's not all
about business. Sal also delves into other

763
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:19,920
aspects of human flourishing, such as
creativity, good relationships, and healthy aging.

764
01:02:20,519 --> 01:02:24,960
Those of an entrepreneurial bent might profit
from the podcasts with Professor Ed Roberts

765
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:31,320
of MIT or with his doctoral student, Professor Chuck Easley of Stanford, titled

766
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:37,719
respectively, start Up Prof and Stanford
Startup Prof. They're loaded with advice,

767
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:43,840
including the most robustly supported finding on
the success of tech startups. Do follow

768
01:02:44,039 --> 01:02:47,840
Angel Invest Boston on your podcast app
and leave a rating and a written review

769
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:52,239
to help it get found. So
that Angel Invest Boston just search for that

770
01:02:52,440 --> 01:03:09,280
on your podcast app. Who won't
be disappointed? Then Ricochet joined the conversation