Hey folks, I'm good evening and welcome to another spaces with me. My
name is klu Laja and this will cause some money space. And of course
here we're talking money, the economy, personal finance. I want to make
the topics of money relevant to you, to your wallet, make it easy
so we can understand it and then we can use it to our advantage.
Right this week, we're talking taxes. And if you've been in Nigerian or
if you've been listening to the Nigerian news, you've heard about the slew of
tax that have been imposed on our budgets, right on our own personal budgets
and wallets. The latest, of course last week was the so called Nigerian
cyber Security Tax that was asked to be implemented across the board. And that
was that was a regressive tax. Essentially, the summary of that tax was,
if you do an electric transfer, you would pay a tax. It
doesn't matter how how much you earn or what your need is. Once you
do a transfer, you pay tax. The tax would go to a fund,
the Nigerian Cyber's Recurity Fund, also managed by the NSC or all of
the niger Secretary Advisor who would then supposedly use this fund to protect us from
cyberst secuity treads. This is a point five you know, a percentage point
on the trans pers that you make. Huge amount of money would have flowed
to that fund. I say, you would have flowed because just yesterday we
got use that the President had asked them to step down the implementation. Just
the leader stage guys. The act itself, the Cyber Secreted Act itself is
new. People are telling you online that it was past twenty twenty fifteen.
No, the twenty to fifteen Act tax businesses. So it was some business
tax, and it literally listed the business I was going to pay. You
had the telecoms, you had, the banks, you had I believe who
else? Was it? The belief they did not? They stopped working firms
right, the guys that do capitol market transactions, they are literally listed.
Those are the guys that were going to pay this tax. So that the
idea being, as they do their services their electronic means, they pay a
tax, and then the NSSA is to protect them from cyber crime and all
that kind of stuff. Not you and I. We were never supposed to
pay the new Act. What they simply did with the substituted businesses and got
business and they now said we are to pay. Only put it on one
line there that we are to pay and we were listened as a customers but
they still listed with the businesses. There, so lots of confusion there.
It will stepped down. But that leaders to our topic at the experience over
tax. The answer is yes. You don't need to be. The answer
is yes. And if you look at the I know the last post that
I did is sort of I don't know what's happening to Twitter. I sort
of went away, but I tried to list for you guys the debt to
the should say GDP to tax for Nigeria and compared it across the board with
other African countries even the US, and to see if we are actually paying
our fair share. The longest shot is this, nance are not paying the
Look at tax to GDP. Our tax rate or our tax collection is lower
than all African states I think apart from the Congo or something like that,
where this were the second to lowest I think in Africa. I think it's
that we just beat Equatorial Guinea and of course electoral Guinea has a lot of
crude oil, so they only care about taxes. But number two or on
that slot, we just pick Etolar Guinea. Their average for night for Africa
is about thirteen percent, the average for the wars about thirty four percent.
That's GDP to tax and I just give will take about six percent. Now
this figures are tax GDP issue as at twenty twenty one. So if you
look at overall and you say our Nigerians as a tax pain, should we
say population, do we pay taxes when you're competed to our GDP? Of
course the answer is going to be no, we don't pay as much.
What the data has to be nuanced. But to go into the data to
see why do Nigerians not pay taxes? I mean one reason is simply this.
When Nigerian builds a house, he provides everything that house. He provides
a water, their ballhole generator provides, provides power even if those security has
got iron bars, high walls, electric fancies. So Nigerians spend more doing
what the government, the local government, the state government should have done for
them. So invariably this is people could say the formal taxes Nigerians don't pay,
but the informal taxes Nigerians do pay a lot because the social services and
non existence. We don't have social security, we don't have free medical care
in most states. So the Nigerians salary and ers have got to provide their
own basic services across the board. But let's go deeper into this thing and
say, okay, where should these taxes go? With said that they don't
provide social service? But way do the taxes that Nigerians pay actually go to?
Again, I'm going to share it again in case you can find it.
I just shared something on when nice you just spend her taxes? And
I'm picking the actual figures. This is not the budget. There's the actual
figures from the federal government. So if you look at that that suite,
if you look at my appropri you see it, how nice you just spend
her taxes? If we simply take salaries, pensions and overhead. I just
stopped there. I didn't go down to the entire recurrent expansion. I just
picked from the requireted expenditures. I just picked salaries to this personal cost,
I picked pensions, and I picked overhead costs. If you add up this
three just this tree alone on the actual revenues Nigeria, I get there were
spending ninety five percent of the taxes that we earn on salaries, pensions and
overhead of only civil servants in Nigeria. Left it again, ninety five percent
of the total revenues, total revenues in Nigeria, I get, is spent
on only salaries, pensions and overhead of only civil service workers. Forget about
social security, forget about roads, capital expires, forget about debt. Tax
The salaries alone take all the revenues, supposes, so how do we build
rules where we That's what we're borrowing so much, and that's why your taxes
are going up because your taxes are borrowing. When you borrow and when you
increase the taxes, it's the same effect. Taxes are just easier because they
sort of the borrowings are easier because you hide the borrowings, but taxes affect
you immediately, but the same effect. So the government is basically borrowing to
do more stuff. We have a blueted civil service and we have huge expenditures
that we spend money on fuel subsidy, as you guys know now is back
and first off is taking away half of the dollar revenues and that you guys
making so even when we sell crude oil, we're pain reviews in dollars or
pain expecting dollars to fun our crude oil. And that's where we are.
We find ourselves that the government is ending money, spends all the money on
salaries and then has got to tax or raise those taxes to then pay itself
in for the other sellers that they want to provide. And that's the genesis,
guys, of your taxes. So if you just take a quick just
on top of your head, what are the taxes you have seen? Increen
for just top of your head. I mean we've seen you shoot tax you
know, that was last year we had the budget. Now we've seen a
cybersecits levee that's been stepped down. We've seen the stamp duties right, it
is there. We were also sing a telecom tax that has gone away,
but I'm here that's going to come back because the parlragment wants to borrow money
from the World Bank and as to introduce that telecom tax. There's there's a
processing fee on large deposits. I saw it come back. I'm not sure
if it's taking it away right. Vieity has gone up lots of multiple levees
that not to requided as taxes have posically gone up. If you want to
import because the niner, the customs fee has gone up. If you want
to pay saying knafa, the feed has gone up, things like that.
So when you don't even have the real taxes going up, taxes have said
the same, but your cost of doing business in Nigeria have grone up considerably.
So why is this topic important? Because if you tax Nigerians and you
take away their revenue, you take away there there are business to spend and
ignize. You have to not spend in any economy. If the citizens do
not spend, of course, the economy can grow because then no company would
produce goods. Nobs would produce goods if they can't sell it to any more.
So if I have an SME in my town and I produce goods and
nobody can buy it because they're paying taxes or they're buying only food, then
I can be in business for long. So high taxes take away your disposable
income. And when disposing income goes the way, you don't spend, and
then the economy starts to shrink and shrink, and then the tax revenues itself
shrinks such of vicial circle that the more you tax, the more you reduce
and shrinking economy. The more you reduce taxes and expand the base, the
more you gain taxes. And if you want to googles this some only called
the laugh of c I've trying to push it up. The laugh of curb.
La f FR talks about if you increase taxes, your revenues from those
taxes actually go down because the capitalize move but just simply goes aways on height.
So the longest shot is this. And again guys, if you want
to speak, you know the drill you want to speak and the dm or
requests to speak. The Nigerian households have overtaxed over tax and their revenues have
not gone up, which is their wages they are what they earn hasn't gone
up. And the next effect of this is going to be that we will
see that the economy will keep on shrinking because you've not increased the minimum wage,
but you have increased how much taxes you want to take from the people.
Hence, you are shrinking the economy. You are courting consumption and you
are going to re contail GDP with had the subspecial stand attacks. Why can't
we suspend every tax for the next six in this quote unquote recessionary period?
What als to allow folks to recover? That's the question. Why can't we
suspend everything? And everyone starts to cut down on the spending. The governments
cut down the spending, and we trying to reflect this economy because you can't
tax the unemployed, you can't tax foods are not making appropit your tax incomes.
If I'm not making an income, whether we're going to pay the taxes
for and that, guys, is my is my take of my opening take.
I like to get the data to guide us. And again, if
you can't see all that information, I think just go to my page look
on the pain twit right there you would see most of the data that I
was speaking about on it. So it's back to you, guys. I
mean, this is my take. Maybe you guys have a different take on
this. Are you overtaxed? Do you pay more on taxes? Remember when
you buy PMS and the PMS is quote unquote subsidies, there's no subsidy.
You are paying a tax on the inefficiency of the fact government. If the
development did not run fuel importations, storage and distribution, you will not pay
what you are paying. The huge cost you're pain is because of the inefficiency
of the government in running that sector. So you are pain and inefficiency tax
your inflation. Food is expensive wherever you live in Nigeria's forty percent. That
is the biggest tax in Nigeria inflation because you can't avoid it. So everybody
in Nigia is paying inflation tax of forty percent. So if you just start
off from there and you say whatever income you earn, you have already paid
forty percent, so you have sixty percent to survive on. How much do
you pay for school, vies or rent? Then how much are you going
to pay to eat? So it's a crazy world out there right and I
just want to hear from the guys out there. I think Nagrants are taxed
a lot. And in economics, we are thought that if you reduce taxes,
you actually grow the economy. You don't increase taxes when the economy is
weak, it actually kills the economy. So high taxes kill consumption with kill
the economy. Low taxes timulate the economy, which they gross gdpeople are doing
wrong with Nigeria, hence our tweet. All right, guys, then we
go to the first DM Calo. I disagree with you that Nigerians do not
pay taxes. Nigerians pay lots of taxes, just that it is not recorded.
It is for instance in legals with payouts of taxes, but it is
not official. Yes, I agree with you. I agree with you,
Daniel. That's the point I'm making that there's a lot of things that we
pay in Nigeria that are not rated as taxes. So if you pull up
like I said, the GDP report, I'm just supposed to hear Nigers are
said to paying six percent six percent of our of our what we pay is
six bills by gb but they're not counting things like levees, what we pay
to drill a ball hole. They're not counting that in that six percent.
If they counted the total calls that we pay for those that should have been
paid by the government, you say that it writes much much more than six
percent to give or take forty or thirty because we pay a lot informally in
Nia. So I agree with you. Complete that's the point I'm making.
Gilt you what are your mind. Sir, I believe in you've spoken of
my mind and I agree with you for what you said about the indirectors.
Because if you go to let me give you a scenario. If you go
to any local markets close to you, you see that those men that sell
vegetable and you know that food items, when you talk to them, you
said that what it does a single vegetable set that has up to ten sometimes
seven tickets in a day. So you see some group of people come into
in a request for money for different things. Yea. So people said that
from the local government, some from the state government, you know, from
ae manner of people. So I think the problem we have in Anigeria is
how to harmonize this tax collection. We we I don't think we'll have a
problem of revenue generation. We already have the population to get this money.
But how do we harmonize it. You know, we see a lot of
group of people coming to calemn money. How does it get remitted to the
government of You just see people that come to calem mooney and disappeared. Then
the next they cannadastick and test to also arass you know, the traders.
So it's also contributing to the reason why we're having hiking, you know,
food prices because these plasing traders keep paying all manner of touching directors that at
the end of it they gets lost in the process of remitters. So I
think we wanted paying a lot, but the government has been inefficient in you
know, getting these tax together and using it for the betterment of all Nigerias.
So I agree with toward you say directs. I just want to lend
the advice to that based on the experiences I've had with it across Ninegeria.
And actually that's a real one across the board I was in. I was
in the market doing the story in the marketing degos. I went to the
marketing digos and just like you said, it's a slew of tax. You
pay for your shared you paid the display your goods. This is just my
not the official Loocal government charging for market day taxes. They paid a lot
of fees. This is just official. Then the area boys come and collect
from them as well. So all those taxes they have to build back into
their costal When they want to sell pepper, they build back up into the
cost of pepper. So when you buy that pepper, you are paying for
all those illegal taxes that have been cutted across the board. But also you
also make a point see Nigerian before we had BVN and maybe n I think
about it, that there was no way to know who is really spending money
or leaves in Nigera to be taxed. You know, in the States,
you have a social secrete number. If you want to buy a house,
you have to quote your social. If you want to buy shares, you
have to quote your social. If you want to open a bank account,
you have to quote your social. So the i res just has to do
a coalition of data. They just collect data from everybody and they can tell
that this individual bought the house. So you're buying a house, it means
you have income or they waste the income, so they can just go after
you. But in Nigeria, there is absolutely no way to know that Calu
Aja here is calu. There is no BVN by biometrics. You know,
we have all this data from all these institutions, but it's not living,
it's not collated, it's not they don't talk to each other. So you
have your tumb into socials with federal and rositic or you have with the niger
passport, you have p fee but they're not talking. So all this huge
publisher Nigeria cannot generate any taxes. The fires wants to raise twenty billion.
This is their target the virus in twenty twenty four, their tiger this is
going to be a monster. Target to is twenty billion. It's really nothing.
If you complut to what is just f vires, to what's our aifica
raises, this is nothing and this is there like this hardhead I want to
raise. But if you look at if you reduce all these taxes to even
know if it's one hundred NERR and you ask all the judiers to pay,
you make much a lot more money and going after I mean the taxes Nigeria
have sometimes obscene. Like you said, fifteen tickets for transportation. Police on
the road way collecting moneys from you is crazy crazy crazy. Yeah, so
times for that, let me just go back to it. Just wanted to
clarify, Yeah, yeah, I just want to clarify on ninety five percent
of income is being used? What year are you speaking about? So I'm
quoting the Nigerian Budget Office, March twenty twenty three. That's the latest figures
we have in Nigeria March twenty twenty three. If you look at that number,
I've put them on my on my side, you will see that when
Nigeria ends one hundred and era, we spend ninety five MIRA on salaries,
pension and overhead of only civil service wodcast. I didn't. I just stopped
at those three salaries pecial over my head. That data has got more point.
Like you say, amnesties included there. I didn't talk about amnesty.
You also see service wide votes gavey. I didn't talk about all those ones.
Just salaries, allowances and pensions take ninety five percent March twenty twenty three.
And it's not telling to be different this year or to our falling dramatterwhere
where I won't sacked anybody in this fell a civil service right, so that
cost is good still going to be there. The difference is going to be
what's going to be the revenues coming in. So if you have a country
that is spending ninety five percent of income on just federal civil service work after
one they didn't have to go get taxes, that's what's going on. So
the issue to attack it the business to ask the question how efficient that civil
service? Should we increase taxes or should really do spending? That's really where
we're at right now, is it. Is it a spending problem or is
it, you say, a revenue problem. If we increase the revenues,
what is it going to happen to them? They're simply paying more more civil
service work. That's just it. So again, the figures are from the
federal government itself. I put the link on there, so that's where it
is. If you look on the link you will see it's right there.
And yes, I agree with you. I just should pay and I just
do not pay taxes. But again I will not pay taxes because the federal
government does not show what it does with them. I agree. There's a
lot of waste stage, complete wasteage with the coment, so we have to
watch it completely. Sonny, what's up man? What's yeah? Is everyone?
Yeah? I think yeah? You said and you about us? Yes?
For me, it's absolutely yes. Because most things that Freder supposed to
provide, they're not getting it from Frement and they're doing it like you know,
like what I mean, you give your electricities, sorry for water road
you WI pay for vigilanty. You know, so I think what the people
pay from you know the country corner. You know that's I mean, I
don't understand. That's what sometimes you see those those people you know who has
connect us, they will always have couplay with the people who paint us like
the you know, like the shops, you know, stuff like that,
because those those people will be questioning that why benefiting. I do everything for
myself. I did everything put myself. I paid for this to save my
shop. And you know I I buy water in case maybe I need water
for my shop and stuff like that. That's the reason why the people are
known really pater and wants Yeah over time sing people. Yes, the reason
why business business is non moving and the father you see a lot of like
local government, you know, looker government at state freder multiple transition coming up
all the way and has to say why because before you know, before you
pay your you have to know you know what you benefits, I mean your
pay for no reason. People saying that you don't pay that that is life
if you live in that's you know, sensing country that recognized you. You
you you don't have any stage to say you will not pay your tax.
You know, you must you must pay, but you do you pay?
Like do you work? Just do you work for money or you just finance
something I want for myself. If you can answer this question, but do
you pay what taxes? Do you? Like? Do you pay annual taxis?
Like for your income? I want to put on the spot if no,
no, no, I don't. I don't. I don't pay my
my like what just hadn't it but I paid for look at governments? Yeah,
yeah, that would that would I don't pay that that kind of what
you can say, I don't, I don't pay, look like past it?
So okay, just I mean different friends people you know? Yeah?
Yeah, because what I used to have an office, high brow area and
all that. And at the point I think I counted about twelve taxes that
I was paying to local government and state government, things like paper zoone layer.
I remember my office was closed down by my one am one am one
night. But all I had to go to the state government head office and
we said, well, we don't have any trees in front of the office.
So when we're not fighting the zone layer in front of my office.
Serious stuff, And then we had to pay people. If I can top
about my head. I paid for business lessons, I paid for television,
I paid for radio, I paid for seawedge, I paid for bohole,
I paid for general emissions, I paid for the old zone for environmental paid
for business permit. Then I paid for parking. Is ten? I've got
that ten already. I paid for parking. So the parking was funny because
to park and put up my office, I have to pay the local government
for cars to pack in front of my office. If I don't pay,
do that, you will to the car from the from my office. It's
my own office space. So ten, there were more, but it was
like ten. I just count ten for you. So how the most business
survived is just working as me. If you pay ten licenses or taxes before
you even do business, then how can you do business and make a product?
Me? Let me answer, sorry to work to me, there's a
whole lot of times call it. I don't know if you heard anybody you
know saying but broad but where's rude? You know? So those things I
don't know. For me, I don't feel like people are usually need just
to enrichh that said, and those money are not going to repreder government because
then I even go into the state or local government, you know, so
they kind of harbor control this kind of you know, there's an agreement with
the states. Look like your wolfriend, that was whatever, like they will
be remaining, you know, like you know, just the tick off,
you know, off it because there's nobody and money told them, you know,
so they're a lot, like you said, I didn't put more than
that. There was one time they closed my shop. They said because I
was to pay like infrastructural tasks and closes. So the end of the day,
I went, we're back here again. I give them money to open
it. So that's just how it is, you know it FRS stressing.
So a lot of people close and show up. I said, you know
what, just go to my house, to the house, let me do
them just you know, do pas stuff in the house. After all,
it's a complications for me. So that's how people are started relocating just because
of you know, it's already business friend, And that's the point. That's
the point we're making with it with the laugh of column put up there.
The laugh of cover is saying, if you increase taxes to a level taxes
for zero, and if you keep taxes that zero taxes are in it.
It's saying if you over tax people, they take that capital and the fee.
That's what it's says. So if you come to the marketer, you
say you are going to pay this high taxes, say the runaway, and
you get nothing. But if you keep your taxices rather low, how they
when they can pay and you increase the base, they actually get more tax
revenue. It's called the laugher of effect. And every time you see the
taxing luxury stuff like that, it never worked because the rich guys just high
their capital. So it's very very difficult to tax that. Yeah, yeah,
good points for me. Yeah, I didn't just quickly go to the
to the tweet right or the messages. So it's you talk about the Steers
secretity tax, that tax as understanding as that today has been stepped down,
and like I stead at the very very beginning, that was a very very
regressive and very bad tax. What do were attempting to do was tax all
transactions irrespectable who was making them irrespectable of the income of the person making them.
Let me give you just an example that it starts silly. Give Dangote.
Dangote write a check to pay salaries. So done. If you write
a check to pay salaries, he does not pay that cyberst security tax.
If I received that check as my salary and I then write a check to
my mother for up keeping the village, I paid the tax because it's not
a salary because the exemptions traduitually that it has to be bank to bank or
like things like salary. So if not paying my mom as salary, then
she pays. Acts doesn't make any sense. One that I say is richer
than me. Number two, he can colde as a salary and avoid it.
So when you want to do things like this, it's got to be
at a level. You got to say, okay, from ten million,
then you pay the tax, or from whatever you pay that you exclude very
very poor, very very basil the pyramid. You exclude them from attackers.
In this essence, it is the poor guys that cannot rise checks to come
to companies or not pay salary, but receiving salaries are going to pay the
tax. So if you receive a salary, you pay, but if you
pay the salary you don't pay. It doesn't make any sense. So and
again, like I said, this act was not for individuals to pay.
If you look at it twenty fifteen Act, it was specific not just the
businesses. It listed the business to pay telecoms, banks, stock broken films.
He listed them to pay this new act. Somebody just try to be
smart and included consumers into the art and made those customers and said, oh,
the bank should remit from their customers. Know it was supposed to be
if I write a check, the banks make money from me because I checked,
and the bank pays the cybercek the fund they say where the banks paid
their legal states, the secret fund and legal that the police has. No
companies pay to the police phone. It's thinking, I don't pay to the
police phund. Companies pay to the police pund. But it's so wanting to
change to allow the banks to collect those funds from their customers and remit to
this to the service to the fund, which is horrible. You can't have
a regressive tax when people are really a softness, especially when you have a
lot of ple So the presents thing, you should cancel it, but why
why not? Why just this one? You should go further. All taxes
should be stepped up the next six mon that's that's really what I think.
Step down to the next six month that becomes it's sort of the stimulus to
all Nigerias costals rates should come down. Why is it twelve hundred? Why
what are costomers? Is important? If you put a good why are they
using fourteen hundred? Why can't they use one to one? Why it's a
subsidy. I'm not saying it's a right number, but it's a subsidy.
So if you want to reduce taxes, when you boost consumption locally and when
there's local consumption, then the SMEs can drive. But if you keep a
high because of IGR, you will make your IGR and all the companies will
be pull the Look at the completely in Nigeria, they're all leaving because nygrants
can't afford their products and we can't afford their products. We're paying so much
money in inflation, which is a tax in inefficiencies where we have high costant
pms and even the raw plane vanilla tax, so we gotta get rid of
that. So still that's my point. You just got to get rid of
all those obituary taxing. A lot of taxes coming band A for power,
that's a tax, that's a tax the band a you're o paying for.
That's a tax. We hear that are going to bring back the telecom taxes
about five percent telecom tax were they want to borrow from the World Bank and
they want to bring it back. It's it's incoming. And why are they
borrowing because they're spending ninety five their income on salaries. So they've got to
really really cut down on the way stage in this fair civil service or grow
revenues. They have to do both. Ross I have reported was announced with
fun fed cut down, but no one has almost anything cut down so far.
So yeah, thanks for that message. I just want to point out
the friends has stepped down so only go to talk much about it. Let's
see what's going to happen. Number two. I see you posted the US
tax spending, tax sending. We can compare ourselves to the US. The
US mixed movie from and US. I get all that we're not comparing the
US to my year. We're making the point of the US spend the bulk
of his tax revenues on social services. You look at how the US spends
his money, and I saw also my profile socialist secret is number one.
The US spends the bulk of their tax reve news on Social Security and of
course that defense. So an American can argue that, Okay, I want
to pay taxes because you're going to pay Social Security. It doesn't matter if
so Sequity is badly managed. But the point that the Americans spend the bulk
of their tax revenues on social services, Nigeria spent the bulk of her tax
revenues on only civil sabbath and repay. That number ninety five percent of the
tax revenues that Nigeria is making, it goes to only salaries, pensions,
and overheads of federal civil servants. That's that's the crazy number if you think
about it. So we've got to fix that. We've got really fixed otherwise
we're not going to get anywhere going anywhere. First, Yes, so,
yes, the law has been stepped down. Yes, I think I also
share that yesterday the law has been stepped down. How will the bank know
this trans exactly is a salary and not? Yeah, all these questions to
do with the Saber Act. Guys, it's been stepped down. So and
I'm not sure we can deal with it. But usually banks will just code
your transaction. If a bank goes to know if what your pain is a
check, that would code a transaction and say all checks that come this way
would end that feel all checks that do not get called as a salary or
transfer from back bank will pay that essentially how they will do it. But
it's still going to be messing because at the point of paying, if I
say I'm paying my mom's salary, that means I don't pay right. So
that means everybody's going to say that a paining a mom or their girlfriend's salary.
So if I have a girlfriend, a simple employer into my company,
and every month I paid that salary, then I called the aim of the
tax is defeated. And that's what you're gonna argue. You would have seen
going forward. You've got to There are just too many taxes, that's the
point. And we're taxing too much because we have a blooded inefficient government.
That's what's going on. So guys, thanks, keep those comments coming.
I appreciate it. Come on, guys, do not you don't have to
go there. Thank you so much. Let me read this one CR tax
rates. Look yeah, good, good point. Good point you're making.
Someone is saying that the company in come tax rates have not increased in Nigeria.
So companies that rate companies rates what they are paying for taxon Niger have
not gone up. I see the point you're making. Yes, But if
a company tax rate has stayed the same, but the company is paying more
for bog transfer, for PMS, for diesel, is paying for or the
cyber tax is paying for what's it called the and ideal Nigerian telling what's what?
That what their name they do, telecom whatever, If it's paying all
these taxes and rates and fees, but the actual tax rate has stayed the
same, has been decerptive because the cost of doing business Nigeria is rising.
But you will if you just look at the tax with the stay the same,
it's deceptive. So you say that the tax rates and decorporate incompact niger
has stayed the same, hence the cost of doing the nager has basically stayed
the same, that's going to be wrong in a way, because you've got
to look at the total cost of doing business. Those businesses are paying lots
of tax. Look, let me give you something. Telecom companies they have
this especial called outcome right Telecom. Those guys are being charged about forty different
taxes for zero forty different taxes. There have been chattings like effluent telecom company,
effluent, where's the effluent? They are taxes like mass permit, mast
height permit ecology for telecoms. There are chatings like fire service. You know,
oh zone. So your telephone built in Nigeria has not grown up because
they've told the telecom companies not to increase taxes. So look at what's going
on, Empty end blue and the rest. Their costs have grown up because
there have been a lot of taxes to the government and fees and levies to
local states. But the federal government has told them not to increase the cost
of your telephone lines. So what would happen if tomorrow they're add them to
charge cost reflective tarists on your phone lines. I'm not possible to use phones
in Nigeria. It's the point I'm making that most of the cost that you
have in Nigeria, you can can't afford anything in Nigeria in dollars, you
can't. And the telecom is a key gicky part of it. If they
charged the real cost that they charged to make you be able to place calls
in Nigeria may just not be able to pay, and that's the point about
the taxes. But the government has taxed them and has accidentally not to increase
their talents on their phone. So this makes it impossible for us to know
the real cost of telecoms, so it is subsidie. But the telecom guys
are the pain. The lecong guys now say they cannot have run operational the
taxes. So something has got to give. And that's the point about taxes.
You can't keep on increasing taxes for IGR. It's not possible. The
economy will fall and collapse on dis with I think within budget says you can
get into a bucket and lift the bucket. So you can't raise IGR in
the same economy where taxes are going up and we just have stayed flat.
Something has got to give. So let's leave that seat tax. The tax
rates are the same, but the levies defined the other non corporate incompact issues
have also gone up. And that's the many comments live in Nigeria. It
is just too expensive to do business in nineteen that's the point we've got to
really bring down the court. And I want to talk about that import substitution
in the in the wild. But let me yeah again guy, anything that
the cyber security text is stepped down for now, so no point talking about
it. I was little to talk about that whole taxes, whole week.
But it's been stepped down. So that's a victory for all the folks that
commented about it. Lots of folks came out and said it was illegal,
stepping down and the government has stepped it down. So the cybersecution as today
is stepped down. Let's hope that others would go as well. Mark,
Also thank you for waiting. What are okay? We living in cal called
the dog, Yes, the US and light and pronting us to issues because
most of your hoever come to your time like at the current issues and from
there I will take up more okay on the topic. First of all,
I want to ask to Ques John, even though the ant may be clearing,
Yes, I say o over you mean the amount of tact or the
number of tax because why as if it's the amount of ta mm hmmm,
I think it's high. Now you can see the number of start it ooky
because even abroad most almost everything your facts on it. But the point is
you don't tax people that dont have very low income, and you should tax
people based on the the rit of the income. You don't just blankets it
has on the people with a considering like let me say, for instance,
when they said that they're entirely in the barriers on electricity, they grouped band
and band on others forgetting that. There's no way you can you can actually
separate the people that listen to such in any band because like U, it's
a mixed environment, even the even the environment you say it is for the
burgers, it's go into the bush and nobody I don't. I don't even
know if they've they're actually a distinction between the classes and the areas that they
because because even if you go to the high hybrid areas, you just see
there they are service staffs, their house helps, they are whatever still living
operating around them there, and those ones also are affected with whatever classification you
give in such areas based on paris and taxes and levies or whatever you call
it, because there are all these names. All boys don't know what you
give back to the government, and you can be given that government cannot be
imagining from you like that limits Ever, something I don't don't I don't mean
to digresse in this in March submission, but there's something I need to also
point out to us because there are something I was analyzing with somebody at that
time. There are there are natural disasters and there are human or government disasters.
Nigeria. We're so bodd that most of the times or over a period
of time, we don't explain natural disasters. But here we have human induced
disasters. Because all these things the government government, our government and are depent
on doing two days, it is not a disaster. You cannot be taxing,
okay, the taxes on road usage, on vehicle licenses when the rules
are very bad. You're increasing the licenses the amount of money to get the
license for your vehicle to move on the road. But at the same time
depends out of the present pace much high money to the government to get certain
license or permits. Now the person flies on that wood and the road are
filled with portholes, so he spends mom a lot of money when it's verycle
and also paying you. I increase high rates of taxes, so I don't
get it. Like in advance word to your things that are good. You
may even drive your car like I'll give you an example. How was the
time I was facing my mot to hope that hope keep grinding. One day
I was in the mechanics. One man was also game to services car and
I was complained to the mechanics about the hope. The man was for surprise
that all does helped me. I was explaining to him. He said that
he lives in the US for years that he doesn't know what it is called
hope. Now the mechanic has slaked to him that his hope keeps grinded,
especially the when they can applies in mudy area, all these streams in the
water and all that, and this happen. I've changed that hope like to
that was the third time when when when the road or they want what can
you expend your amount of money? Also in the early over task, know
what I mean answers our first question about is it number? And you said
you needed a number of taxles and I think it's both of them. It's
both of them. If you live in the States, what do you pay
tax? And you pay tax on income to the federal or state In some
instances if you stay you always pay federal, then you pay your state.
You pay medicare, you pay pay, you pay all doctor, but it's
known, you know exactly what you are paying. I think the problem is
I say that you can wake up today and your office is shut down because
you didn't pay wheelbarrow tax or you didn't pay smoked fish tax. It does
come from me. When they think of entertainment tax, road closure tax,
gotta is that the tax it does come out of nowhere, and those things
are not recorded in your books. You can't get a tax credits. You
say you can pay tax and as a business you can put that tax in
your books as the cost of gating business and then claim it as a tax
credit. So if I'm paying a tax to local government, I should be
able to say, oh, this is my cost of doing business. Then
when I run my tax for the whole year, I don't pay. I
reintroduces my taxable incomeboard in nigers or because those tax are really illegal. You
can't write in your books that you paid a borough or that you pay a
tax that is not recorded with a joint tax board. That's the problem in
Nigeria. So in the telecom conference, that the marginal thing and for example,
all those forty taxes they pay are not are not recognized in the Joint
Tax Board. They're not recognized that a telecom compas should pay for restance effluent.
So the MTN and so eat that tax as the cost of doing business,
but they can claim it back as a cost of doing business. That's
the problem in Nigeria. So it's number and it's also the amount the ci
T that our copied. Contax is the same across board and when just has
a big advantage. If you are looking for investors, you reduce taxes,
you don't increase them. We seem to be we jump and we say we
want to they should tax. We should be reducing taxes, making it even
zero. If you make your tax zero and the company comes, won't they
eat, won't they get water? Won't they rent a house to stay?
That's how you get your money from them. So if you say you want
a company, you know, last year we're trying to tax term Twitter to
come to Nigeria and we're saying they should pay tax register that's a bad approach.
The better apport you to tell Twitter if you come to Nigeria the next
ten years, you don't pay any taxes. Twitterompan NYDIA would they buy sever
when they hire people. All those folks are going to be in Nigeria.
Look at Microsoft now they're leaving Nigeria. If Microsoft leaves Nigeria, that office
is not going to be you know, they won't use it to the maximum
use. So we are losing that revenue from there. We know. I'm
sure right man Najera will prefer to say okay, stay in that place,
don't have a presence and paid reduce taxes. I'm sure we would take that
perfer for Microsoft. So taxes is strategy. We can't look at tax as
revenue generation only. It's a strategy. You know, if you want to
get someone to come to your house, you you just make it sweet,
you say okay, if you come here, you pay lower taxes. That's
what we need to do. It's got to be a way to drive business,
not a way to tax and milk business. You know, don't the
example I giving MACS ten, I paid those ten taxes before I started working,
before I stif fight opened the office life we office us open to this
with a banner, and all those tax people came before we had warm fully
of operatials. So business tax, you paid business tax. I paid TV
and radio. I paid parking, I paid signboard, I paid sewage,
I paid bohole generator affluence. I called ten last time, what is the
environment? I've missed it too, but I paid on most of this before
twelve months of doing business. And that's the point of Yeah, what do
you think I get you now? Remember in our last piece when we were
talking about elder Yeah, one of the one of the things I was trying
to point out then, am i am i online? Yes? Yeah,
yeah, all the things I was trying to point out. Then when they
when they do this kind of blounder in the monetary policies, is scaring people
away? Yeah, like from what you're what you're explaining, what you're trying
to explain here, they should actually think of the way they can handle these
policies so that it will bring employers into the side into our night into night
because they are there. The way they can differentiate the taxes the the manufacturers
or the job givers be and the taxes that the the the workers. That's
an average night you then because from people from people that may not be manufacturing
or may not be giving any they work in the civil savages or they work
in the private sector. You understand the pay that system, from the salary,
from the things they buy, that and other you know now, but
if you that's that's most of these you're selling it or either that's the manufacturers
or companies, so I the company will entirely maybe down size in their workforce
or pack up eventually the same thing. Nobody not gay. You have you
have, you have, you have a good example, McDonald You have glass
to speak like what they do. They left Nigeria, but they really a
billings to it an individual. So that individual is going to import their goods
from UK to Nigeria and that individual, who know how, he will pay
the Maybe Glasgow can't break any laws, but that's what they've done, which
is exactly exactly what you're saying. It's really it's really unfortunate that I don't
want to call names, but everybody knows that the people are the hem of
affair, that people that have wrong ning wrong said uh managements. Because I
don't know someone who was quoting my red the other time, they don't,
they don't. Yeah, I hear you McDonalds. I mean and again,
I'm just talking to my friend that is talking to me on the Twitter turn
and about social Security tonasyfity is financed by payroll tax, no argument. The
point what I'm making is that all taxes in the US, if you group
all the US tactics together, the number one source that is spending money on
is on social security. That's the point I'm making. If you group all
the taxes in Nigeria together, your group ciit, you group V eight,
you group all more the federal government gets together, the bulk of the spending,
ninety five percent of that spending goes to salaries or overhead and tensions of
civil servants. That's the difference I'm saying US spends on social security for all
Americans, Nigeria is spending on ninety five percent for only civil servants. Greg
Grew, your hand is upser, Please go answer. I can hear you
very well, sir. Did the lever for giving me the opportunity to speak.
As far as this question, this concern, I will always see the
other terms. But because I am I doubt I'm not troubled, but I
doubt you will see a contrue. Well, we are taxed without representation like
the Enginlia ever give me they would pay one form of ts for the other
when you do your markets and discontent way to go and bidings. I've been
to a marketing listed where I went to bitings. I bought the things and
the buyer, I got my load, and people came to meet me that
I had to pay for dropping my load on the good. I'm nevern talking
about the seller now, I'm talking of me as a buyer. So it's
so and loing and so and so and so frustrated. Then that's the dimwters
that. Thank god this cab. He asked the simple question and nobody seemed
to answer, seem to have answered the question. We are telling us to
be cyber security tax, and I'm on Twitter everything other day with your people
stealing phones. The person is not supposed to know your password. The person
is not supposed to be able to look into your account without the talk.
But somehow you will steal a phone, You'll be able to get the password,
You'll be able to look into their countlet and advert to home. You'll
be able to transpire the money out of the account, and the banks to
tell him they can't do anything about it. Now I have to question them
if I'm paying cyber security tax because it's what you like it or not that
from my calculation, Let's say I do as of like three million dovers a
month in a year, that's like fifteen thousand or never or something that much.
Yeah, about fifteen thousand, and cyber security ts this Theurney in show
has that is going to show me when they break into my account, that's
still my money. Or if they work into my accou still my money.
This wed taxation with that presentation comes in if you're telling them I'm going to
be a lady. Yeah, bad versual. Somebody suse my phone and of
course it's never default of the bat, it's never their fault and the everybody
these things that they have been as far as advantage concerned. But if that
a course, has somebody scused my phone and is able to assess my account
for pay cyber security tax, am I contected? So there's particularly no protection
that at individual level. But the tax body was supposed to be on me.
So it's quite annn. It's really really frustrated. I can't I cant
into fatom can't where we are taxed too heavily without any representation on anything.
This is where only I started took a plate. Only the taxes that this
multiplity this government upper hastert hostage of government, collect from tricycles, from houses,
from cap care. We are most of those clubs admits issue with God
at all. Yeah, I mean it's a good point. Only both collect
from care, from bicycles, from from christ cycle, from banks, from
car. We are the Nigeria has more complaints. Nigeria should have more issue
in views. But yeah, we are, we are paying taxes. We
are misrepresented like mad. Then even that the local level, there's one that
was arguing today the part of something in my state and they said this is
effect. It's the first program and they said it must be firs in the
most the college. The beneficiality of the program must be from the specific most
be from the local pers in the geopolitical zone of the area. Then I
actually question, are you telling me more dation. I live in an area.
I take success from the area. I do everything and the area oh
my business, I want my business. Yeah. Then the friends that pushes
from the first protrogram home, are you telling me that I sa more ind
I've been stay, I've been done my activities here. I cannot apply for
the program because I lost from then why is it a further program? So
this is our distat level, we are still being we're still doing the nine
representation because I can't be like a list of my not from here, so
you can't partake of this. Yeah, just annoying. So for minutes we
are at tax just because of the fact that we literally have for our taxes
than I think you make a good point, Greig when you ask that is
there fun to have compens the consumer, because look at it this way.
Because it was originally waiting for businesses, the business work not about fifty they
would have been able to manage that process to compensate or to watch that business
online portfolio. But when you make it consumers, that means if I'm paying
for that service, I should able to have a recourse should I not get
the service. So you're making a good point that if this law had passed,
perhaps you should have been able to fall back mechanism for the consumers to
say I paid, but I still go to redtop so I want to get
insurance cover things like that. So good point on that, and I think
it's well's good that it has been scrapped. And again this point of taxation
without representation. Also on that valid point they are making. If you pay
a tax, it gives you the not just the you have the right to
demand for accountability and action that comes to you. If you pay tax your
local government, then the government then works for you. It's not the other
way around. They collect taxes, they must deliver services to you because you
are paying. So good point they're on taxic with representations. Sully, your
hands off, what's going on? Yeah, mister Gray, I don't want
to direct our attation for your topics, but I know there was one.
There was the other they was talking about the way was structured. You know,
I was in your space and and like I contribute, Like I do
you think these tasks you will ever be very effective? You know because if
you look the near Is structure, it's like very centralized, not like America
that we only talked about it. I mean you can see the company we
just from, you know, from a Budja onto the States and said that
they were saying by Frederick. So they still don't have any right to as
the manitars the isn't one. I'm I'm just one of botting. Here is
a part that you just lit. The way you were saying that if you
look at gun man connectitives from you local goment, you use the task.
You know that she used it for the local government, right and also stayed
in the federal But we see that a lot of companies, you know,
they know not even federal state. You know, So I don't That's why
I said. I said, I don't want took about our testion. But
you were structure because we're only strength. It's very centralized, not like in
America way buy. You know, if you pay local go men, you
know which is their contents, they use it for their for their their content.
If you pay for states, they use it. Federals to use it,
so you know where your money is going, you know. So But
me, that's why I said, let you ask our task. We we
ever be efficient, even if maybe we kind of leg re use this for
the you know, for the buntom. Let just trickle it down. I
did get question you're asking some night you on paper is a federal republic,
but in terms of physical terms, it's more or less a unitary state.
If you look at the way taxes structured in Nigeria, the federal government has
the sole powers to administer the collection and also the rates of taxes in the
country. When I min is this the federal government collects V eighty. They're
not supposed to. Vated is supposed to be a state tax. Only the
state tribute to collectivity on its own and sets its own rates on its own.
But the federal sets vating rates and the federal collects thus V eight and
then distributes across Nigeria is in the federal formula, which is wrong because V
eight is the consumption tax. People can't consume in Quara and you're distributed it
to Abia. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. There's a bunch of people.
And then the other one again you want to talk about, is to
say in terms of not just the V eighty point, in terms of how
we then even spend. Look at the Nigeria contition. Local governments, right,
local governments are under They control states in Nigeria. Right, So let
me sorry guys. Yeah, so local governments, for instance, controlled primary
schools in Nigeria. Local governments control primary schools Nigeria, but in Nigeria,
the federal government, the federal government pays salaries for these teachers. So what
you didn't have is that there's a mismarke between the local governments and the schools.
If the local governments collect property tax, which is what they're supposed to
collect, then they can have very good schools. So you can see there's
going to be a tie in with your where you live and the quality of
the schools. So there's going to be competition between two move to I want
to move to a Giga because a Gigia has a very very good school district.
That's how we're supposed to be. So in Niger was written that local
government take care of the prime. Well, now you've got to local comments.
They don't do anything. They literally don't do anything. Look at the
River state where they're saying, oh, you have to hold your session in
the state and all that. So they really don't do anything per se.
And that's the problem that you have. The country has to restructure itself.
It has to restructure itself. You cannot have only the federal government taxing the
incomes of companies. It won't work. You've got to allow the states attract
investments into the state and then they can then tax those companies they're attracted.
If the federal governments alone can attract companies, then the states do not have
any incentive to attract workers or to attract companies to the states. That's why
the pyramids in the north disappeared in the nineteen seventy. Before nineteen seventy,
these states and the regions retained the revenues that came from their exports of the
cash crops. So the month of Nigeria retained the revenues when they exported groundnots.
The East retained rubber and palm oil, the West retained coco. So
you saw a wall over built cocoa house with the revenues from coco because the
western region got the revenues directly. If you exported goods from Legos, you
paid excise duties to legos, not to the factual government. You paid excise
duties to legos. So Legos had an incentive to make their ports perfect.
Western house was building cocoa house anty because they were exporting cocoa. The money
was coming back in same with the Eastern region saying not northwards the number I
think number three in terms of exports of peanuts in the entire world. But
when the military came that in seventy the introduced what were called fac and all
fak said. It says, if you do any economic activity, you have
to pay that money to a central and then we the military will share that
central post across Nigeria. So what happened You then had a situation whereby the
nothing then found out that there was no point growing ground notts anymore because if
they grow ground notts, the money goes to every everywhere else. So they
focused on crude oil. It's not the oil per se. That caused the
North to forget the peanuts is the fact that if you simply invest in agriculture,
you don't get the revenues. That's what really happened. So you took
away the revenues from the states under government and took it to the federal government.
And of course everything is federal, then nobody owns it, and that's
why you have this mismatch of taxation or representation. We're not incentivizing the states
and local clements to go and create businesses. We are not. We're allowing
the federal going to do every That's that's what we have. So a question,
Sonny, that's sort of keeping you a taste. We've got to do
a lot of the organization in Nineteia what we have today can't work. Yeah,
absolutely absolutely, you answering this does work. A nice man, that's
so. But let me just here, I'll just plan on the ministry.
Yeah, that was also you know, our life when I was your space,
like the whin I did that structure at the moment. You know,
I don't think it's going to be like effective for any guitars or whatsoever.
Like you just said, I totally agree with you, and I mean that's
what is you know, actually you know the loop because of everybody just wait
for freder government because federal go man property doesn't belong to the nombody, so
nobody takes ownership of it. So that's the reason why I just wait.
Is today I think we we we have to you know, get get back
will come from from me and will know that able to you can produce.
Welcome Gregor real quick. I will get I am and Gregory real quick,
so I can move on Gregory. Okay, So I just want to place
yes'm for illimited company val your company income taxes. Yeah, there's also a
portion of taxes that is and that is the personal in comtaxes. No,
but no, no, no, no, hold on, hold on,
greg Greg, don't get it wrong. The personal in context is the payroll
tax of the individual worker, not the company. Yes, that's what I'm
saying, but that's not of the company, that's of the individual. If
what I'm trying to say is I know, that's why I said I want
to be there was a time I have believed to be analysis and the significance
compared to what the company. I'm not saying it's not the companies isn't bigger,
but for a lot of community pays signature and two more important, pay
is constant. The ideas companies will normal make profits. They won't pay taxes
if we don't make profice. But there's no year you upgrading a business and
we won't pay PAYE. My issue is disinvolved with the pay the government,
the state government. They don't do what they're supposed to do with the PAYE.
That's issue number one because yes, and once again I know the further
government seen you do something literally you are having makes you do it with a
condifferent aware almost all the pay goes to voice di justice. But let me
let that that's put this way right. If I set up a company in
obvious state, my health is an obvious state, right, and I make
so armies I pay my income in my income are going to the way it's
supposed to be. Let's say what's happening right now. If I have a
company set up in Abia State, the company is in Abya State, and
I make a billion nier and I employ a thousand workers, I pay the
billionaire taxes to the federal government and I pay the one thousand pero tax to
the state government. That's how it is right now. The way it's supposed
to be. Like I'm saying, is this that one billionaire income tax should
be shared between the federal and the state. The state should tax the work
the company in Abya so the state can get revenues because the company is making
revenues from Abya. Number two, look at the oil service companies. They
have their head office in Legos, but they have the oil fields in Aquair
bomb Reverse on the Abia Imo where else by us? Where is the HR,
Where is the human resources, the pee where is it it's in Legos.
Where at the physical workers is in the thirteen states of the federation that
are oil producing states. So the payroll tax will go where Legos not acquire
bomb on the imo a bi Usa revised to the point I'm making. Where
the head of bices in Nigeria is usually where they calculated the pee. So
if you have to do the payroll tax, it's it's no, there's no
at the law is where they write those checks. Where they write the checks,
they they have an office in Quibum. If even if you say it's
not law, if you say okay aquib who who is an Aquaibum to write
the check for the pay in acquireb it's all in Legos. Or if you
look at ther ndras FDI, what do you see the bulk of the FDI
comes to Legos. Now Buja that's the only it means that the banks are
in legals and Abuja that's only what it means that the banks are in legals.
And so the money comes in is recorded based on the bank. You
see a few recorded in the States because those ones came in the States to
say oh it came into us, like Soco to god Boa, that's this
guy. But I'm sure it's because the man wanted to record at Sokoto.
Where's the BoA's head office, Where's Dante's head office? So you've got to
make these things. Where you make the income is where you pay the taxes.
That's the point I'm making. So that way, if state insensifies,
you let me. According to the data, the best state in Naja to
do business today is going b state. So god Ba state has got the
accounting, the ease of doing business. They have the best laws, the
best infrastructure to do beaus in Nigeria, but nobody goes going to go to
go and be doesn't make any sense to go to good because this same pay
at paying legos, it's without paying go in go by. Go By can
reduce its paye, but they can go more than the five. But if
you allowed everyone to set their own rates, then states to start to compete.
You see like Florida and New York. Florida can be goun By,
New York can be Agle Ugle state. Pansers can say by going to reduce
our paye taxes to attract workers from legos to move to go Google state,
which is what they do right now. Move to go Gole state. They
can build a railway from Gogle State right to the border of legal state,
so workers can they can do a big car pack pack and drop pack your
kind of good state. Ride the train to legals, walk, go back
to Google State. The taxes go to Google State. They take advantage of
the fact their new legos the same way in Mexico. It's near America.
But you want the tax has got to be an incentive scheme. You can't
with just igr You just can't get on to raise the revenues. So I
do taxes. No, you use your taxes as a strategy to attract something
the come to you that's not going to grab Thanks. I am a high
I don I'm good, I'm good. Thank you for the conversation. Could
be everyone else, guys, Yes, are nagerans over tags the true days?
I don't think so. But there are some fundamental issues that needed to
be addressed and if you would alarm me, then just quickly go through it.
Number one is under employment. You know a lot of Nigerians are not
well renumeraated and when you have that, then it becomes very difficult to pay
tax. And that is why the very rich who employs a whole lot of
people in Nigeria are very rich. It's a fundamental issue that we've been ignored,
areniglating, and we don't be addressing it's time that it's addressed. That
is one. The number two thing is the interpensation of the local government.
The local government which you were mentioning the district governors have rendered useless. You
get the render them be useless that they decide when the election takes place.
They decide there's good to be an election, They decide when there's good to
be an election. They decide who gets elected. They decide how much they
get. It's that bad, you know, they get take form of this
put but does that And the number tay think that I think we should also
address now is that there's social structure for those who are vulnerable because a lot
of people who are paying tacks. Now, a lot of people that are
going to eat any levy that's WoT come into play, and a lot of
people that will be and the same set of people that are taking care of
the honory puts in their family, the whole age d the ones that are
applying, the one that are people, the ones that I unemploy, the
one that doesn't have scholarship. All of those fees has to be paid.
But these people that are underpaid, you see, but in many other times,
so that's a Picare for example, you have such a structure taking care
of these people. Now the problem now lies in if you've got to pass
the same people we're taking care of the vulnerable, then it becomes an imputation.
And that is why you see that the rigiest God is that Africa is
staying passed more than the glorias in Legos, all of them put together.
It's impossible for that and that is why you see that their ig R seems
to be bigger than how Why because there are and we'll take into the last
one, the efficiency of the taxes. It's messed up. It's not efficient.
So if we can address that, then we realize that really really we
are not because if you're if you're does be get taken care of your street
life, get taken care of the road leading to your street, get taking
care of the trust? Would there so that this calet people and the government
is the reason why we are complaining that even the one that we are paid,
what are we doing with? Thank you? But the question also ask
you you say it's Nigerians. You don't think nagens are tax is that?
Did I get that right? You asked me? And you are over taxed
and I said no that the truth what I'm saying no, is that when
you compare the variable how we are being tans compared to how other countries have
been taught, we are not overtaxed, but many Nigerias that are playing tax
and lived board with so many body that should be showed by the government.
Yeah, they get my point now, yes, but I still again sorry
again too because I'm just saying that. You know, I just said myself,
I don't know if it's in the community. Listened to my taxes to
you ten This is before we've got one customer. And okay, look the
point I think is this right. If you take the legal taxes and iran
company or an individual paid, it's very very low, very y low.
That's why if you look at our ADBT to GDP, it's very very low.
But you and I know, like people have said, yeah, if
you went to the market in k two, they told me, once you
put your umbrella on the ground to sell good you have to pay for the
umbrella. You pay for the land that you're going to put that goods.
You pay for it per day. You pay per day to the local gobet
and to the quote unquote boys are. So when you're bringing your goods on
the will barrow, you pay for that. The willborrow guy will pay to
bring his goods. Look that your your yam to you pay for that will
burrow to drop that in there. You get if your customer comes to buy
the yam from you, your customer will pay to transport that yam from your
umbrella to the road to put in this car. This is not to pay
for the barrow guy. You I'm saying, you pay a tax to carry
the yam from that store to the road. And this this, this takes
an annoy. They're not recorded anywhere, so it's easier for you get to
go to if you go to shop rice, you don't pay those taxes and
shops is important. So what happened that they can yeah, go ahead,
okay, can I come in there. There's the problem of remittance and the
task collection in legos. That's what you're talking about, kitchen. But you
see, the thing is that you are itemmage that are being taxed in legos.
It's not the same in other local government. How are you getting me?
As a matter of that, if you try to initiate some of those
tax systems in some local government, they will make sure they will cryhouse and
make sure that they make it so overtable for you and remind you we will
remove you. And I'm talking about for example, in classical example, you
know those when the new tax regime was being put in place, they were
telling it and the government has to back down a bit on some of the
systems that was that was putting place. So my point is illegals is a
different ball game. That is about remittance to recovernment. And that is where
I think one thing you have mentioned in want You two weeks before, which
is they need to go digital in these remedters. They need to find a
way to do it. But I think somebody askaid did it already? So
that needs to be done. And legos okay. If we are saying legos
is overpassed, maybe we should say legals okay. But I still do not
believe that even after that, they are being overtaxed. I think that they're
relitiants if the money are remitted and it's being usually probably I don't think so
yeah, what I'm saying that, yeah, But what I'm saying taxes itself
itself. For related I'm saying that detaches itself out of bearing. And that's
what I'm saying that you are paying for. Let me give you again.
Give for me business license local and state. That's two that this licensed local
and state, radio and television. Then the dish, the dish. You
paid for the dish. They mask the mass of the dish. I paid
for it. Then I paid for my septic tank. I paid for the
gutter. They whatever the that'spin. I paid for that. I paid for
fire service. I paid for parking. I paid for signage. I paid
for environmental I didn't have a tree in front of office. I have to
pay for to fight those on layer. These are ten taxes. Has not
to do with my income. I didn't mention pay I didn't mention property tax.
Not that I removed those ones. This is just the taxes I paid
because once I unveiled the office, this is signed there, they will come
to you and give you a taxis fire service came to that inspection. They
call it fire whatever inspection. I don't have a lift to put fire extinguisher.
I paid fire service. The command look at it and they will tax
you. Seawich. I don't have the seawich. But they'll say it's passing
on the NATO place. So you have to put air event and you I
don't have a tree. Is a built up area. I can't plant a
tree. It's a built up area. Okay, put protect plant, will
protect plan the layer. We don't care. Or you pay one fleet thousands,
but it's not the remittance is that it's a lot. So before I
do that, that business they want and what they pay taxes. My friends
that do buist in Lucky phase one, they have absolutely no sign board in
front of their office because they want to avoid taxes. But they are doing
it, so they need the sign board. They are online. I am
doing consumer I won't put to nowhere I am, so I can't avoid that.
If it goes to Lucky phase one, every house there is doing the
business. Every house there, some have signed, some do have SiGe.
That's a quick one before so I can jump and a lot of people can
come in also. But question to you these dates. You are speaking about
legos. So I think we should items as legos and away from other states
now, because what you're saying doesn't exist in many of the states. In
Nada, it's worn't other states in ornature. For instance, the popular now,
Okay, there are a lot of businesses you know you're that are not
being taxed the way people are taxed in Legos. One. There are a
lot of businesses in Londo that are not being taxed the way you are being
taxed right now in Legos. And I think it explains why the ig are
of Legos is that big, right. But I want to ask from the
mental questions, which is, would you say the service that you are being
provanded in Legos it's proportional to the task that you've paid so far in your
estimation, there's no there. Let me answer that question. There is no
local government area in Nigeria. In Nigeria that you can put the taps on
and drink the public water or infee to your baby. There is none in
the seven to four local governments in Nigeria. There is none where you can
put the taps on and give the water to your baby or drink yourself.
There's none. There is no local going to Nigeria that has caught even eighteen
hours of power. There's no going to Nigeria that has driven and not blocked.
Maybe a puja maybe. So these are just basically said for your water,
water power. See, there's no local Nigera where you can leave you
where you can sit outside your house, buy one am and smoke a cigarette
one am. There is none, even in Maintama, even in Equally there's
none. So these are basic statement. Sure, okay, you guys in
that area for example, have you guys decided on early a meeting, come
up with the community and make your demand as tax payers to the government in
that local government. It's not it's not a local government to provide water,
power or security. That's part or for all the My point is this,
you know I'm paying this money and if I'm paying this one for example,
where you pay the light, the water, everything is in a certain for
example, and any of these things is not provided right immediately. Once you
launch a complain and you are in that area where you have top quality services,
they will response to you. If it's your water, if it's a
silwer, it's your light, they will respond to your same d and fix
it. The post holes in those areas are quick to be fixed than in
some other areas that you don't have. You know, all these companies and
these and that and that. My point is I feel that don't you think
that you guys should have admitting and taple your question. You know, meet
them at the media, meet them at meet them wherever, and make this
demand legitimate. It on document, on paper, on it, on the
memory. No, no, no, So again, this is the formal
conversation we're having with was it sunny or so? We were talking about the
way I drive structure. This is the point I'm making. If Nigeria was
structured properly, like you're saying that we had the local government, we have
the state and the federal, then what you're saying would make sense. You
can write your county where I live in the US, sometime part of the
year, in my county, the local government will send me their budget this
would wants to spend money on, and they will ask me to vote.
They want to do a new library, don't fix. I vote on how
they spend their money in the county. Then I see them doing the thing
that I voted for next year. I see it to my physical eyes,
so I know where my taxes go from my pocket to county to run.
In Nigeria, the work that way. We have a federal government, then
we have a state government. Local governments do not exist in Nigeria. So
the point I'm making is that we have to restructure the country, not just
in terms of the physical federalism. What's physical federalism that the states, local
and are all separated, separate physical entities. It's already in constitution Nigeria states
that the primary schools are in charge of under the control of the local government,
which means that the property tax with the legal states and other state governments
collect its suppost supposed to because by the state government, but by the local
governments. So if you have motion local governments and emotion local governments collecting property
taxes, they then use it for health and education. Because they are local
governments. They can't buy defense, they can't do find o PRESI. It
has to be local. And that's how it is structured that way. By
in Nigeria, the primary schools have funded by the federal The NUITY will go
and strike it today you say you want to take them off federal funds.
So the structure is wrong and if you don't fix that structure, you can't
fix the taxes. That's why the niger the federal MAK can afford to spend
ninety five percent on only federal workers because it's it's off. It's it's off.
You most fix the federal federalism. There. You can then demand local
gomments create power. You can ask local governments that look at River State where
they are paying The governor says he wants to pay local government workers. Do
you know in fact local goment workers have their direct location Niger a location.
Nija's oil money is shared according towards vertical and horizontal, vertical and horizontal.
How does legosy get money? Lego say, gets money by the population of
Lego State and the number of local government Lego state gets. So Lego states
with more population gets less revenues than Cano because Cano has local government areas.
And this is the problem of local content areas. You've got to everything is
tidy in census, population and fak. This is the tripod. Nigeria is
built on census, which is the population, fac which is the oil sharing
revenues and the state that's the tripod. So the Niger shares revenues are going
to land mass. That's nonsense. So it's like look at how big Saturnbia
is. Where do people live in Arabia just on the coast. So if
if Cerebras is the Nigeria state. They'll get all the old revenues because Nigeria
will give your revenues are going to land mass and population. So it's stepped
like Legos that has the most population in Nigeria. Every only in Legos get
less revenues than Niger. That's gross revenues because Nijaden gets more moneys because of
land mass and population one Legos catch Legos has igr and Igi. Then compare
the derivation back to Legos. If you look at those gross the way it's
from like a set up. Let us get the less because I have a
smaller landmass and less local government area than say Niger States or Borno State or
Captaina. So you've got to fix all that. Then the taxes makes sense.
I don't you saying yeah, I don't just saying so in conclusion,
you are saying that we have known all that were about and that asked upon
in conjunction with the state governors and all the coring competitions that we have.
Now I mean you've got to fix because Nigeria walked from nineteen sixty to nineteen
seventy. Go back to NIGEA nineteen six nineteen. In nineteen sixth nineteen two,
Nager was the fastest growing JI on Earth from nineteen sixty nineteen sent three
first Union Earth. What what were we doing in nineteen sixty to nineteen seventy
minute? I grew number one. We had very regional of regionals centers,
where every region grew at its own pace. I've said this some filter before.
If you have time, go and pull up the economic plan that was
written for not An Nigeria. There's an economic plan that the premier or not
Nigeria. Some of the Bellow got the British to go to the entire north
and they wrote in a plan. That plan was to converse the North into
what they would call say Ohio today. They ran an economy without crude oil,
agriculture. I grew a wide even heavy industries. There are lots of
nutries in not that. If I call today to blow your mind, you
go to Bauchie. What you called Bouchie today. Bauchi and plant too are
almost the same society. Industries in that Bauchi will blow your mind. From
steel to aluminium, to sorry to copper, it's all in there. They
wrote everything. They will build the railways, they build the grazing places they
were to supply to Saudi Arabia and all that kind of stuff. Then this
army boys came. These kids came and went army uniform and just true,
and I went straight to oil. The North has never gone back to the
plans of sie modebility. If they go back to that plant and they dust
it up, no region had that detail that they had. None, it's
there, It's not some when was not an Agurman company started, they had
a building full, not an aeged defical company years ago. Skyscraper in the
Karuna, it was there well before cock House was built. Right, But
look at how the West cut up with them because they took their eyes off
the ball. So you've got to go back to regional. What we ran,
what one man ran as a region in the North and in the East
and the South is what twenty governors are in today are making less revenues.
One one made more revenues per capita running in region than all the six governors
today plus Legos have made running six states. Nigeria has not built one million
affordable homes since nineteen sixty two dates even lad Legos one million South that we
can't build nearly two million from after apartheid till date. All the stings is
because if we take our eyes off the ball, it's all federal, federal,
federal. That's why elections are just probably in Nigeria, local governments are
missing in the equation. And if you don't get them back into the fiscal
picture, where localments can tax property, you can't move your property. They
know who owns the property, tax the property, take the money and fix
the schools and the primary healthcare. Once you have that base, these states
can then come in with guidelines, can come in with taxing companies that work
in the states are providing. Then the connections due to the local governments,
then federal can then sit down at the top and do guidelines, police says,
procedures, and do grants. Look at the way the US spends the
money the bug and when it also goes to grants to states and the government
areas. You can still want to do cancer prevention and you give grants to
states. Come let me close with this. Does give me last example universal
basic education. We have a fund that says that states have got to pay
counterparatform to UB and then get money. Do you know as many states in
nager today have not paid counterpart funding to the UB to get free money.
This is free money. The government says, give us one Mira, will
give you to Naira. Yeah, you give us one there, will give
you to the Many states have won't given one there you know the biggest corporate
organ state. Yeah, is shocking. Yeah, So it's you have to
ask these questions. The federalization of everything, this taxes is a problem.
We think we make more. The total money is again look on the on
the pinch chat guys. The total revenues that the federal government made in a
quarter Nigeria is nothing. We think we're a rich country. It's nothing.
I figure out get the actual revenue figures. I'll put it for you now
in n Iran Cobo. So I people think because we said ten percent.
The total actual revenues. If you take twenty twenty three actual first quarter three
months, the total inflow we made total one point two trillion. This is
oil v eighty everything one point two trillion. The total revenues in twenty twenty
that I made in the first quarter one point two trillion. The total payroll
that we make in the Nigeria has been total pay roll is about nine hundred
and seventy eight billion, So this just added not pensions, pay roll alone
is taking nearly eighty percent of the total revenues. That's why your texts are
so high. Because the government has no money. The country is technically broke.
So every day, every day they go to World Bank. No,
and I'm giving you the figures. Every day you hear World Bank, you
hear VAT, you hear this tax, you hear that tax because they don't
have money, and don't have money because they have a spending problem. Even
the smaller means that are getting what they do with it. That doesn't mention
for the VP they're buying Exifa members. We have to broken down private jets
outside Nigeria right now, the President's jet is broken down. The VPS jet
is broken down there outside the country. Has Nigeria died No, So that
means you can do without those two jets and AGA will survive. But these
are the issues. I'm linking the taxes to the wasteful spending, to the
inner patient's taxation. That's what I'm doing, the fiscal federalism to the inner
patients spending, to the over taxing of Nigerian consumers. It's all linked.
You carry one from the other. Big thanks, thanks, that was good
concision. Bctor, what's your matter? Thank you? Hey? Victor?
Going once, Genst Genster, what's happening? Gensta one firefight? How are
you doing? Man? Good evening, Good evening to everyone, usual sexation.
I'm not an economist, so I'm going to approach it from the very
layman's terms. Anytime I get a chance to common spaces and people are talking,
I always try to bring whatever the issue is, one from the perspective
of a woman, but also from the perspective of the poor, the poorest
woman, not not the middle class, not educated, but sometimes the poorest
woman. And I'll give example and the reason why I do that. For
example, when we're talking about water in the North and how I think seventy
percent of the not do not have access to portable water, and people were
adding back and back and forth, making it about primordel sentiments. I said,
think about a woman who's just giving birth and there's no clean water to
wash up those babies. Think about a woman who is a young girl who's
fifteen. There's no portable water the fort on the stream, but she has
a menatural cycle and she needs water. I always try and bring these things
from that perspective because the issues, whether it's pative a taxation, women always
sort of experience it for me Hasha, and I don't know, the impact
is always so wors and women. So I haven't said that. Let me
come to the issue of taxation. I'm not even going to talk about federal,
state and local government. I'm we're going to talk about the informal sector
and the poor market, women portrayer and how they are double triple text.
Think about a trailer that's coming from maybe just with tobato and all the people
in uniform who have to be sorted all the way from just I'm gonna use
my stage maybe all the way to serve by right, and that all the
all that money will be added on top. The increase in price of petrol
is added on top or diesel. This is diesel because it's a lorry,
right, and then the the diesel from the person that the petrol station had
to be tipped to sell that to metok. Then maybe the basket of tomato,
the big basket used to be fifty k. Now because of all of
this informal tax it's now eighty K. So normally the way they do it
in the market, because the tomato sellers will be like in some sort of
union, so you don't just tually pay cash to buy the tomato. You
sort of take your tomato within the union, you sell and you try and
balance sort of like a balance and take systems. That's how I know they
do it. Then that mental gets to the markets. As soon as that
to mental crosses into Delta Stay. There's another set of taxation. That's that
the market people will take theirs. The local government people will take theirs.
They will mean, they will tax that laureers it's coming in toowards Sabbath,
they will they will take the government will take their tax. They will give
them one sort of receipt, one small receipt for them. Then there's another
receipt for Delta stake government. There's another receipt for the SABA. I don't
know if there's an your Master. I can't remember the name of their logo.
So that's two reasons. I'm not I'm not counting all the other ones
these paid. I'm just counting the ones they paid when they got into the
Delta stay right, and then that's there. It comes little. We're gonna
go markets, and the market people have their own separate taxation and that receives
that they will cost for the person. Then the lawyer will go to the
back of the market where they off loading tomato, and then the tomato will
sellers people will cut, and then the community will cut their own community ticket
as almost for tickets. That's bing the delta. Then the woman will sell
as she's selling, and you have the boys and the markets who will go
around and collect security money, collect the environmental money. These are separate,
and then she she will sell going back home, they gain taxi or bike
policeman will collect. So at the end of the day, I'm not even
gonna talk about the formal tax I'm gonna talk about the informal tax. How
out that many of this minimen, by the time they've gone through all of
the informal taxation, they have nothing, nothing to show as the benefit for
the taxation. It should be a two way street, right when you pay
taxes, you should have services. I compare it to myself living here in
the UK, I am taxed to I sometimes I feel like taxes coming up
for my ears and everything, depending on whether I'm working maybe on a fixed
job, or I'm working as a contractor. Sometimes you pay almost fifty percent.
There's a job I did last year, I was paying forty seven percent
taxes. It felt painful, but we don't in my family, we didn't.
We then don't have to budget for public school because the public school as
private depending on the town and the postcood. You're in all the books.
Just looking at my daughter, that all of our books have provided in school,
we have our own out of our own choice. Decided to play for
extrac curriculars, for extra lessons for myself English. That's separate. But primary
school is covered by that seven percent. She goes to swear and she goes
to second, she goes to a levels. It's all covered. Health care
is covered. I can walk. I walked into the hospital, had my
child seven years ago. Paid nothing. Nobody asked me to buy ioging by
contu like most of the market women. I know if delta state is three,
to give birth is three. That was under God LORDI I don't know
if that health policy has been retained. I don't see the value that people
derive, especially those informal taxations. I don't see the value that the women
get it. They have no crush in the market. There's this the market
stores are just the zinc over their head. It is raining the ring pouring
on them because they are leaks in in the zinc. There's really nothing that
this realmin gets from all of the informal tax stations. So let's not even
to talk about the States one and a lot of that. So there is
there is no value. There's no value. That's why I drive one because
I will never put my money accept things change. Are you well, that's
a bit of reality for us to see whether Rob, I'm into the road.
Thanks for that, Thanks for that. You're very right. You know,
this taxes sometimes sounds high polluting physical federalism, but when you bring it
really down to the fact that the woman gives birth and there's no water to
wash the baby because there's no borehole, there's no pipe on water, there's
no primary health care within twenty five miles of where she gave bert, itach
really brings it home. You ask the question where are all these taxes going
to? And aar given the answer is going to salaries. But we have
tons of front that This is just the the Feller government's own budget. We
have independent revenues. Where are they now just doing sing jo bullus oil theses?
Where is the money going to? You know what's really going on this
country? We are taxing, taxing, taxing, and the people are getting
poorer, poorer, poorer and can't afford this. How can we say this
that in the entire seven hundred and four local government areas in Nigeria, not
one has public water, reliable, clean flowing from the taps. Not one.
I don't want a streets, i't the entire local government area. How
can I be that's a point for a large export of crude oil. It's
simply it's a breakdown in governance, in the values, the rules of government
to the citizens. This is completely broken down. There's no relationship doing the
taxes you paid and they said, just you get. We are celebrating twenty
four governors building roads. A road. The god not builds a road.
He's a star my state's app year. I am thankful at the governess building
roads, but for crying out loud it's the road. But I'm because the
last three governors did nothing. You see you think you've seen bad roads,
the BD roads in Apia that had a lake on a lake like a mid
lake on the road with flower with trees growing on the road. So it's
a man I don't know. I don't know, dr Adla, thank you
man do day light day Sinoka. It's just that I mean said it is
a different animal in tirely when people when people are laughing raising you and you
guys don't know what will happened? I beirs did. There was no governance
for twenty four years. Just imagine you had something that you you packed the
car for twenty four years and you came back to that car. How would
you see it? Doctor, you've got the mic doctor a day like day
to new Care. Yeah, good morning. I've been a fan. Thank
you all right. Well I asked, I go girl when you start when
you talk about having a leg, and said, why don't know about I'm
just proud of the road. Oh my god, have you seen the pictures
doctor. I'm not kidding though, I'm not kidd about this lake. Matter.
You see you see somebody, you know it's a road, but you
don't want to road till they cleared the road and you're like, oh my
god, this was a falling road in the nineteen sixties. But it's day
in Aaba. It's amazing, amazing, Yeah, it is. Digget into
this discussion. Uh, as someone else, I traveled a little. I
I rememinded my master's in Canada and I played a little tasks while I was
walking there. And I'm now in Australia and I was paying that. I
said, Ninegeerians overtaxed better what they get. You know what I mean.
You can't pay for a rose rice and you are giving the leta camry r
piece. You are paying for what you want to get. If you're paying
as you are expecting good role. You're expecting to have water, water,
You're expecting to have power right on the time. You are expecting to have
our look income houses. You know, butther than in Nigeria. What you
get you get. The president gets to buy the arch numbers of record to
buy activities and then they get to do the get houses the president and then
you know vice you first I did that to have an office and then to
wear an activity. Didn't want you. We're playing passes for in Nigeria and
it doesn't make sense. I haven't come from in government in Nigeria. I
have guilt families, hotels, I have a small hospital in a showbo right,
and all of it I know how much like sometimes I want to shout
out my mother when she calls. She's befally managing most of this. And
then when she calls she says, uh so people can They said there from
Elsa, you pay twenty time. Some people came there, they said that
from million time material. This isn't no pay for her fist thousand and I'm
like, what is all this? I played them. I paid in the
year. It's almost as if they want the business to food or there is
no encouragements for doing what you're doing. The country is not encouraging you.
The governments. I'm not going to say. My kid brother is being in
the hospital and when he got to the taking level, some people came and
said he cannot take until he pays two billion. Why you cannot put a
decade until you paid two billions to right? And then in went to me
with the public in that area and he talked to them and he said,
look, I am yielding this hospital not because I am hungry because I need
your money. I am doing this because I want to help I am building
the Icy Curntime. I am building it and the Jurassic Sordry Center because I
see people, I sneak you don't have hospitals to go to instead of looking
for money to pay for a fly down all of those and I'd like,
let me bring it home. That's what I'm doing. If you people do
not want this, I will sell this property and go back to where I
came from. Right. And then that was when I consider I said,
okay, you know what, just pet and I'm still like, why do
you still have to pay it? There is more subsidy. If you're in
Canada, you're building a hospital, retal may subsidized for you. Angie over
common Stalk will give you the CT machine. You will give you to give
back nothing in said you're paying more. So Nigerians are over fast in every
aspect of their lives. Everywhere they are over You are literally almost about to
pay for the egg bridge about tracking across the road. That is just what
is left in Nigeria. Everybody is over task. Everybody you want to buy
travision markets, you are paying more because the woman who is selling the graffish
has already paid more and wants to recoup from you, so you end up
paying more. That is fast. You might not know it, but everybody
is lital. You can think before it at that you don't have to work.
You don't have to be employed to pay taxt In Nigeria, you don't
have to be alive to pay tas because whoever, whatever you want to buy,
they set up paid a very huge amount of money at tasks where they're
transporting that crefit from they go to They paid a lot of money on the
road police we collect some drive so just a collect so when they get to
refire this nature and I want to sell to you, they put all of
those money on top of that crayfish and get their money back from you.
If you are feeling that tax, that is just how Natress run and it
is shameful and annoying how it is run. How the oil in the does
and then Randu State is getting the tax from from oil in this thing.
Okay, you know getting tividien for me. It is bad America and economist.
But I think Nigeria needs to go far back to the drawing board and
trace how there no miss the steps, recaculate and all back to strategize because
if you continue going the way we're going, I don't know we tire ye
from now, I don't know all right now. And that you write for
a governor and you can passalborate bently, you will be celebrated. You will
be celebrated for being in time. You will be celebrated for adding two thousand.
You will be celebrated for doing a route you would be selling. In
fact, if the governor in Nigeria and you as much as engage the citizen,
you will be celebrated because it is rare for a governor to listen to
the citizen and respond to the appuptures. So when you don't do that,
when you come out in the public and wave your hand and the citizens of
these days no interacty them, you will be celebrated. They will say you
are the best governor because they don't come up at all. Some one don't
come out the jot in the office and the front and the bride to buy
and now this thank you, doc, thank you for that. And doctor
of do us say is that every woman that is taking care of somebody as
an economist. Every woman, especially women, is an economist. Every one
of you because you folks are the ones doing choice scarcity demands needs. You
are the CFOs of the homes. So we are all economists and I think
you've made some points here that does drive it home. You have invested.
You are an FDI. You have brought foreign direct investments to your home state
in Nigeria. And instead of you to be celebrated, to be giving taxles
to say hey you've brought one, can you employ two? Can you bring
in more to your state? They're taxing you. So what will happen if
you weren't. You had a deal in Australia and they said, hey,
we have all these machines for cancer, we don't need them anymore. We
won't donit it to you in Nigeria. Can you take them to Nigeria?
You wouldn't waste your time doing that because they they could be too much for
you. And that's when just getting it wrong. I registered about a guy
that went to us, he's a disabled guy or so, and they gave
him machines, medical equipment to bring much Nigeria to set up a hospital.
Customs held the machines inviagers that were demanding for igr The guess that this is
a foundation, it's charity. This is going to set up with something they
demanded for customs duty. If it pays duty, who does it? Who
has it helped? Who has that igr helped you? So again you go
back to the point about the physical federalism. States are working, and it's
been shared to athersis that are quote unquote not working. That has to stop.
Everything is linked with like I said, the federal fiscal revenues, the
census, the population. They are all linked together, and states have got
to manor and believer for their citizens. It's just that we make enough taxes,
but they spend it on waste. That's really what's going on. So
doctor again, thanks for you for investing in Nigeria. We appreciate you for
investing, and we hope many people not discourage. We've got to keep pushing
and we just have to keep pushing. That's just it, right, Victor,
what do I hear you dropped off? What's happening? Yeah? I
reading. Thank you so much for the awesome insights to be sharing, and
of course job to talk about about. And she made she made mention of
the very key thing. She said, your life and then you have to
you don't have to work, and you don't have to walk to do you
know, working with another said that point tweet earlier to by doctor and he
just also said something in that line that office I work up looking paps office
to one father in many companies come there the accounting e one to wonder to
a contract and that's when they realize that not being you know, the act
health of the pain and what do they know to they start to negotiate of
them probably have about me fifteen million you know tax obligation and then they are
there five million. And that is what you see because these companies, all
these individuals in the acts that they are doing the use of the attack that
is inted. So when they are you know, they're cost the tax that
even even rather than painted the rather going to go and look away to negotiating
you know out of that. And and what happened is because number one,
we're not saying work a number two the act boardings hired that. So the
organized that yes, nine grants of attack income is very very high. You
know, we don't have enough if we don't need I'm already busy. I
mean look at food inflation and they're you know common so companies already trying to
tax because they're not seeing the use of the tax. And you see some
companies I see, so they're on the on there, you know, and
all in the name of it pay this, not because they don't have.
Victor, your audio is cutting in and out. I'm not sure if it's
just me, but it's breaking in and out and you're making some great points
there. So I wondered if you could and so you're looking now because you're
looking, and look back in and just take it again. It's cutting breaking
and if that's gonna work for you, Victor, Okay, let me get,
let me get Cyndy, Uh, Cyndy. How are you doing living
the opportunity? And fine, thank you, com go for it all right.
The question is as a nigerianus UBERTAX, I will say yes, very
well over tax looking at taxations in line with other countries that would say nugeons
are highly over tax with regards to company corporation tags, PUST nine contacts.
You know, all the taxes you can take are highly over taxed. Looking
at practice like deity. Initially from the previous administration, the guilty was originally
at five percent, but however it rose to seven from five percent in the
last administration. Why a period when the economy was really struggling, businesses was
struggling, What did the government do? Rather they only look at how to
you know, tax the citizens with this and what do they do? We
have no idea also going by CIIT companies in the development of companies. We
countries like the UK, if a company makes a loss, they are not
allowed to pay tax. But Nigeria, the government came back again in twenty
twenty or twenty twenty one day about we introduced zero point five percent of turnover
for CIIT companies. Why companies struggling who are not allowed to pay taxes in
other places? So as to help them reward their businesses, government came back
to say, okay, no, instead of not paying at all, why
not we introduce zurope for five percent on your turnover. So if the company
makes a turnover, say billion nira, you'll be charging about five million or
so for turnover where the company probably has you know, cashul problem or something
like that that's gone on and on around making businesses to be closing down.
We see all these companies live in Nigeria struggling. This are a problem with
Nigeria, but that no one is talking about. Also, you come back
to you know states like Lego states whereby they just roll out letters of times
for PI T person nine contacts, whereby they just assess where you need come
to us collar vicinity are silky everybody believing about around this area you know belong
to the high net worlds. And you just put a figure in the letter
and send to you, send to your houses and silky just owing this amount.
Please come to do you know, come to all rest and pay the
stats you see people start debating this amount and all of that. You know,
it's a it's a big struggle for Nigeria. These things are not talked
about. Probably they're not okay. Also, we look at taxes like consumption
tax, which is being connected by legal states. How do you you know
launching a place like they wtell after charging you be eighty and everything paid for
in that place. They also charging consumption tasks work for what's because of tax?
For what all this money is useful? We don't have the breakdown,
We don't have any of the data to support what the tax is collected has
been useful, killing businesses and individuals. These things are really really disturbing.
Also, you look at tour gate fees like Legos, when you pass lucky
to pay before you pass five times, you pay, five times, pass
ten times. We pay for These are all taxes. Also, if you
go to places like the markets and legos, you're instructor and informal tax system.
He's not talked about so much like a guy. Let's say a guy
is carrying a truck. That guy carries you know, like say a bag
of a cut on of tomato, he passes somewhere, he's taken. He
pays. Every time he passes somewhere, money is collected by somebody. Where
does that money go? That money is not accounted for. So we have
all these problems in my gia. People don't talk about it. You know,
it's it's it's really really sad. We talk about government collecting with told
inters stay, governmental collab withhold interis f I as we collect withholding tags.
And then at some points in time f i res came back and said,
oh, were told in tas dated after a certain time, you can only
you cannot use it because it has passed. You know, it has passed
a certain time from which your money. That's dedoctored from your services that you
are supposed you to upset your viability. They said, no, you can't
use it because you know, probably the government is tied with cash flow.
They're trying to base money. Why why why should the society functions like that?
Why these are serious issues that really killing the economy. They might be
small boards in the long run, there are big issues that should be addressed
and looked promptly. Otherwise we're only going into I don't know on this turn
of a tax again, just saying so care. What you're saying is an
exemption where the who pays a tax just yes, normally all companies are supposed
to pay tax on profits, taxes, compressional tax or profit normally government.
You know, there's a turn of a trashow. Why you make it all
over over twenty five minutes. They're supposed to pay tax whether you make a
profit or you're making loss. So in language a drunk context and the other
world's like I've said, the UK went practicing as well. In the UK
when the company makes the laws, they're extensive facts and they carriedly lost forwards
for how many years to about four years and offset that loss whenever they made
profit. In Nigeria, that was the case. But in twenty twenty,
the government came back and said, no, whether than not paying anything at
all, why not we introduced zero for five percents on your tourn over.
Normally corporational tax in Nigeria is twenty percent on your profits. However, they
came back and said, no, if you have, if you've made a
laws, rather than I'm not paying anything to the government, you're not paying
any CID. So let's take zero point five percent of your tournover. Whether
you have time cash flow that you you don't have, they don't care to
just collect that zal confined percent of your toneover. So if a company is
making billions and billions of narrow if you take zero call five percent of their
tono. By the times where they're really struggling, it's stillious amount of money
which have been invested in the business bounce back. In other countries you see
war businesses and struggling government will our plans give them cash, you know,
funds to support their businesses, businesses, how they can support them or in
Nigeria it doesn't work then with it doesn't. It's really really it's all about
the struggle how the government can collect from you, collect from your collect from
you. It's really sad. Also, another big serious problem we have in
Nigeria and tax, so tax like it's a problem like I would say ninety
eight percent of companies in Nigeria don't play the actual pay of the account.
Why you have crazy tax consultants and we come out and tell you, okay,
just pay this, just plad this, just pay this and then give
us the balance or even for your corporations and they say okay. They complete
the actual tax liability and say that your tax liability should be two billions,
and then they say okay, maybe the company is struggling. The tax consultant
comes and say okay, we're going to reduce this tax liability to say to
be one hundred million. Okay for the three of the four work, for
the work we've done. This is what you have to do for us,
give us fife from Dreum Milliam for our team. Have to share that you
know, public paperworking place and then close the taxos or whatever. This is
a serious issue. No society like that. It's indeed the society. Almost
all companies, like even the list companies totic the actual properit. So you're
saying that essentially they just work with the tax consultant and able to get a
discounts without It happens all the time, all the time. It happens lots
of issues to take it. I mean, doctor or that you don't have
to make income to be taxed. I just have to be alive and I'm
going to use but doctor, had they wrote down a lot of tax,
they have to call it for citizens make that's society an unfornction that way,
it can't. You can never grow in society like that. M Well,
thanks to much for giving not the account inside of it. I mean it's
crazy, like you said, a ton of attack. So if i'm if
I'm just making tourn of he not profit, not income. That's a turn
over. What is not my money? I get that's a big one.
Yeah. Well, since you're hang in in in case it's not a guess
one has a question on tax for you, let me get took. Mister,
thank you so much. A pretient doesn't victim. It's your audio back.
Yeah, I believe it's back. Yes, go ahead, O great,
So I mean listening to the last speaker, just just said everything.
I was going to say, you know, she just said everything, and
I was going to add that. And when you go to the tax office,
when you go to the epist and the entire service in the States,
you see these things happened every time you see companies that know that this is
your tax body. But then because they know that this tax is not you
know what I mean, I can hear you please go ahead, okay.
So but because the companies know that this I mean, if I give the
government, it's not going to will do the work that is supposed to do.
So let me d just legotiation to the tax consult And there was the
case of where the company I was working with for about five years, the
company was going tax right, and then we kept on going back and for
that back and forth and multiple millions. But what happened when we got to
the office and had a very long discussion with many tax console brands, he
directed us to an officer and then what we do. The next thing we
starts, you know what, don't want to go back to get back to
you, and by trying to go back to us and told us just about
far on the house and that's it. So why is this the case,
so many layers upon layers of So why why will the company decide not to
be fitful with your tacks because obviously I'm not seeing what they worked up with
the tack. So obviously if I don't see the job, then I'm not
gonna pay the tax. And they're say, look where I can discuss with
maybe a tax consult and to a packs officer. There was a case where
two tax officers were discussing and then one was saying that that the money he
has gotten for the whole of twenty twenty one from not negotiating with companies is
enough for your salary. That salary one he has gotten that money from negotiating
with companies. So you see, even though the government wants to tax the
companies, has already multiple layers of loopholes. And then because there's no there
is no if you if you pay what you're doing, you're not gonna see
the work. So why would I be at the end of the day.
So at the end up we keep on seeing the governments increasing the path and
trying to widen the net because you're not seeing the money. And then even
if they see the money, the money ends up in private for I mean,
interesting point. I mean it's the same team again. You know,
we pay too much tax and the one that we pay we don't see the
benefits. So that vicial circle that developed. We're paid, we're not seeing
the effects. So again it keeps developing. Good point. Let's let's run
the room. I've got first light, first night, thanks to Victor.
First light. Toss your mind, first light, what's up? What's up?
Let's get yours butcher, butcher jos go aheads going once, going twice.
The humans and that's the humans. Can you guys hear me? Is
it me? Yeah? First? Yeah, please go ahead? Yes,
how are you guys? Really mean? I love the discussion and Engeria over
pack. Are we he said? Are we saying it's on both sides?
I think I think if you look at the obvious site ever mentioned in those
countries where they higher past, how do you know what shocked me? The
more the things that shocked me, the more that happened in Nigeria is the
fast like already just said, yes, it goesment come up like you said
to legal consumption pass and we compete about this. You know, in the
system where everything will works, somebody will have challenges in the court. They
did, they did. They challenges in the court. They challenges in the
court. And its legal. It's legal, it's legal, it's legal.
Okay. So secondly, the taxis that we talk about here theme for my
taxes work still a lot of business, true is in for my past.
Let me give you example. I have a friend in who had the right
patry in sarafricas Barbwe. He had a grandmot one would be clear. I've
said this thing on your springs before for him to start. The one in
Saratica, it isn't on your steamer six months. The one in Zimbabwe it
took five months. The one in my junior took him two years eight months.
Against the shopping part of this as will you month anytime it truck comes
in to pick rise and like one of his talk, leasing is in place
of right, then the police point ride in front of those people who collect
money from him. Then your local government chairman of that area where he's produce
that, right, you want to send somebody that same week to come and
collect money. Then when that's finished, the so called murgarde of that area,
we send somebody to come and collect money. You see you give meon.
I'm saying this is that, and those people will not agree with me.
And this is not costing the spreade drive loon. When you go to
the thing, it's even more past. Its terrible to the city. I
have often who said, well, you're bringing something out of bailing before you
leave genuine, before you drive out of bailing. You say more than seven
starts before you drive out of bailing. And that's the food basket of Nigeria.
I think what we need to think more about. Okay, your audio
is not that, it's not that golden, but we can hear you.
So I want to wrap up and then look back and look like there's not
that golden. Yeah, yes, bro, yeah, yeah, yeah,
go ahead, yes, go ahead. First night, let me let me
get you that audience. Yeah sure, let me get humans. First night.
I saw that audio. Let me get veryment speak. Okay, very
humans going once under the sea. See him your hand us up a speak
and I'm going to take you to step your down. Go ahead. Yes,
we did a lot of my uh able to speak on this platform.
So I also wanted to speak on another area, you know, as regards
streamlining, and we have been able to streamline their taxes and outside the over
boarding of taxes on Nigeria's you know, there's a lot that's it were still
lacking in the government being able to track, you know, and being able
to streamline a lot of these taxes, even if we focus on things like
ciets, like vat even the way and I know, I know there has
been an improvement in recent times trying the empire us and you know, setting
up their system and of breading your system has been there has been a lot
of improblems, but then the government has not been able to you know.
You know, you also spoke about even getting like the data bound for the
identity of Nigeria's you know, and being able to track you know, everybody
Nigeria has their own idea and identity and that so the government has ever been
able to streamline taxes in a way that it is transparence and then it is
being related to the right sources. You know. If if they can even
actually do that, you know, tax is that taxis will be raised,
you know, and as as in more tactics will come in, you know,
instead of introducing what I'm introducing your tactice every day people the existing ones
you know, if if you if you're able to invest you know, in
icity and then really you're able to build up this system, maybe digitize it.
You know, if you to go a long way to bring in more
taxes from BeO the existing taxes. But then well what dan government that should
government likes to do this. They set out to do one thing. It's
not working. It's trying to stay on it and fix that thing. Then
they're starting on that thing. You don't have bush roots, right, the
existing are bad. They want to build the new and you root your stand
you you don't have good system in place. Instead of staying up fixing it,
you want to bet the new system. You know, we have different
ideas. Now we have means, we have TV and we have I think
they haven't trying to introd and l so you know, but if they could
stay and fix this, did and everybody was the v and you start okay
everybody that van and and didn't they choose to identify then implement it, digitize
it, bring it up to standards. You know. Over then they don't
do that. You get it, so just focus on you're thinking about just
making making the process itself more efficients keeping it making it the process, make
the process even efficient. That's just go because you know good are hiding on
that, or companies are hiding on that, you know probably or like some
invention people sometimes my bride their way out. If you can implement in transparencing
what let's go to the states. You know, people talk about non state
actors that are also collected in tax you know what what what is solution to
this? Digitize everything, you know, the ties, all the taxes.
So and then it becomes more transparence process becomes more better present and carry a
line more money from that, you know, because there are several not that
you know, people different hands in different markets. They don't want to you
don't want to have the political will to do this thing instead to use another
tax you know you So that's that's just one of the issues that then you
can focus builder system builder processes be more efficient processes the existing tax you know,
can't it would be we'll get in more from the from from from the
existing taxes. So make it more efficiency. That increase the volume, even
if you don't increase the tax based increased will be increasing improve your process.
I prove the efficiency, you actually will get more good point. Good point,
don't do that, just start introducing the new taxes. Good point.
Love that them getting quite coka cosy. Thank you very much. That's wonderful
thing, very fine. So I think number one, I think the Indians
are very of the tax I think I think the major problem is coming from
the civil service itself. And and that's why I think the points made by
the last week and may not really work. The digitalization. You know,
they drained this digitization in many civil service offices and disablers will fight against it.
And in a way, I think I understand why some of them will,
most of them will fight against it. And one I think that the
civil services grossly underpaid. You know, they're grossly on the paid. That's
why most of the time when you go to most of their offices, many
of them are either taking up second jobs of doing selling odd and odd things
like that. In remember that the offices, you know, and from being
underpaid. The Christmas process for most of the civil service areas is highly corrupted
and exily corrupted and doing that in most of them that I have seen,
most of them that I have said, there's one person that massively recruits so
many. Yeah, he plugs and many people for maybe his thin for something
like that, and they actively collect a percentage of their salaries and he collects
them and that percentage is a sense to his account or whatever happens. I
used to know that, I used to know as even. Yeah, and
also that in like twenty percent of the salaries being collected by one of that
they talk like that, the NEOs and many of the normal people, many
of the Loma women, I think around twenty six it was twenty twenty two,
I think they were paying them around ten thousands. Of that like five
thousand was being collected and sent pected by one or girl like that. You
know, So in that instance we're in you're collecting a Niger pay and then
on top of that you came into it every day back door. You understand.
It doesn't promote it doesn't promote a coulture of It doesn't promote the adoption
of the culture of transit. And see, you understand. And that's why
informal analogue analog in quotes, analog ways of collecting the taxes collecting many of
these things will always That's why they will always provide. They always want that
kind of system in place, like that it's like what you've got at It's
like what you get in many customs of this, many custom offices you go
to maybe because custom of this. If you want to do your if you
want to do your course, let me let me ask you this question.
Do you think that they are paid low or do you think that because they
are unproductive they are paid low. I think they're paid not because they are
unproductive. No, I don't think that they are what what what? What's
the output or want to be the output? What well does the civil servant
in nature create? So in a way I think that the support I think
I think that if you're paid well, you can maintain efficiency and follow the
set of lead down protocolts. But which your comes first? They did like
in Singapore when Lakewranu started, he said, I was going to make the
civil service leads the best in Singapore. He puts in the civil service,
he paid them at the very highest levels. So this the Singapore amount as
much as what we'll call it, here's gonna be a bankers And that's where
you then study economy. What God did around the country. You see Singapore
today, And that's how Nagural was in the seventies one asking that today.
But the singapore guys create well, look at Singapore Air like this government owned.
That's why Singapore is government owned. What what can you name one institution
an n that is creating world? Maybe NFA or the MAASA or n NPC,
anything house with an end that's creating words when job nature has to I
think the only oil company I've seen in my life that Nigeria subsidized. This
isn't subsidized. It should be Nigeria the only oil company I've seen where the
citizens subsidized oil company. So we're not creating wealth. And then this is
a liability or the past to Nigeria a liability. So if you don't create
weld, how can you get paid more? Look at the banks create wealth,
that's why they pay their guy as well. The ite firms create world,
they play their who whatever farmers you can add this some farmers. I
mean. The point I'm making is that is salary a consequence or a causition.
But what is salary is a consequence or causation. Yeah, if you're
paid more, you're getting me you can be more motivated to retain fairness.
If there's fendness in the recruitment process, and you caught out many of these
middle men who create or this loophos goos to warn rest like that you would
be able to get you able to get a lot more in terms of the
taxes that actually reaches the comforts of the frederal government. I don't know if
you go so this backdoor which many of them tend to take. You know.
So I just think that just the problem is the ethos. No,
I get the point you are making. Get I get the point you are
making. What I'm asking is that if you look at a salary, does
a salary motivate or are you motivated and you get a salary? Is a
salary causation or the salary really the causative. That's what I'm trying to figure
out from you, because if you say, if I pay work and more,
they will become more. Yeah. To be honest, personally, I
think from experience, personally, I think salary motivates if you pay any will
and if I have a good pension, if I know that I am being
my pension has been that, if I know that my attention is being sorted
out, if I know that this is coming in and it can be sufficient
enough to help me scale through at least to the end of day that happen
to bubble. You understand the inflation with I don't know if it gets I
mean, I see your point. I see what you're going to I see
your point. You're saying, if I pay policemen and you are well,
they will do policing better. That's where you're going. That's where you're going
to do this. Yes, exactly, okay, but I understand and see
which one comes first. Should the policeman police better than we pay them more
or should we just pay the man who for the best? Which do you
think should happen first? I think that's all right, But I see where
you're coming from. Let me ask your accountant, Cindy, what's your take?
What's your take is saying the salary is small and I just don't get
paid well. So you wanted to get paid well so that their protivity goes
up. What's your what's your what the numbers say? All right? Thank
you? However, I think it's not about being paid well. You look
at other countries. You know, people are tax based on how much based
on their disposible imicome what is left at the end of the day. Say,
for some countries, like in the UK, you have like what they
call personal allowance, which is about twelve thousand pounds twelve thousand, five hundred
and seven pounds when you eard anything within the treshore, you're not paying tax.
Regardless of your age, whatever work you're doing, you're not paying tax.
In Nigeria you have the consolidated allowance which is spread across your salary to
take out your pay. Why but these things are not arranged in a way
that will make the average that you don't understand their take home pay at the
end of the day. When you look at other places, like the gentleman
who mentions stream lighting tax is in a place like Nigeria, the population is
so much wellby, people are doing several things. There's so many small,
small informal businesses that not registered in the system. If the system is streamlined
and digitalized, I think we should be able to, you know, generate
sufficient funds and leasts could go a long way for the system. In the
country like the UK, it's a crime for you know, for you to
do a job or get paid without the money passing through your national insurance number.
I think for people. In the US, they have like the social
security numbers where we'll give the safety or in Nigeria, we just have systems
where we can't even understand what they're doing with them. They just have your
data, your information. We don't know what The other time Bvia, we
tought Via was coming to do something good for us. Today nothing. They
came back again. N I n nothing. So we have all these things
scut out all over the place. They're not streamlined. So that's why the
government comes back. I think I want then introduce a new tasking tomorrow.
They introduced another because they can't even constantly did what they already have. You
cannot rely it, you know, to be able to make it a picient
for them and for the society. I think that's interesting. Doctor. What's
your take? Doctor? I mean you you walked in Nigeria, I believe
you walk abroad. Now. Do you think it's more of a paying Nigerians
more and they do their job better or do you agree that if you then
just should work first and then should pay them doctors? You're taking the level.
What's your taking on that? Yeah, I'm going my disperis ad.
People are happier when you pay them well and they're happy, are better.
And when you are happy, you want to do better. And when you
are when you are appreciated, you want to do more to be more appreciated.
Right. I remember when I asked my first guest up sugar, and
I was paying back there. I was playing fifteen thousand, and when I
saw my workous were very good, I increased it to twenty thousand. And
when I was thirteen the nurse day, they all light one block to brid
my no no, no, get okayl and they did more work, amice.
When I saw how there were more work for them, I told them
I was going to bringing too extra pable to support. Do you know what
these guys did? They called me a sad madam. Are you know bringing
to extra people? Just up ten ten thousands of our money. I will
do all the work you did that. They are ready to do more work
to get more money. So you pay better. They work better because what's
going on is Sartain. That is, the police are not getting it upsidary.
So they called their first decision to record. So when your play dubs
an five thousand, they go to the road and collect a roundred and error.
So maybe two hundred thousand because they need no money. It's it's it's
certain everywhere. When you don't pay enough. In fact, when you're really
a business and you're not paying your work as well, you stand the chance
of losing money because your workers can see from you to make up for that
difference. So when you pay them well, they protect your business, they
protect your interest. They don't want your customers. They want to stop customers
to come buy from you because they know that when they sell, the more
they get their cellar ripping time, and maybe even more and maybe even dash.
Maybe sometimes it's good. Sometimes when I can't in I just give them
maybe one one thousand. Sometimes when i'm coming up back for everybody. Sometimes
I just go out. When I don't buy, go to republic and I
just buying everybody. And they're happy and they're doing more work. The movement
of nagera I'm not employed the start. If you you live in US,
say there is movement. The contents return. People are happy when they receive
the ADSs retords. So this year they don't want to tell the talks because
you know that when they pay, you know, the more you pay the
motor. But this is what I know, and I also want us to
also look into this government is taxing the people too much already, and then
there is bang. There is doing wars right. I have not been in
the country for a while and my sack country story negative. They ad two
thousand and ever I left there have been removed and I'm now it's not about
my nose, my nom several langage, so which means I am all in
the journey bank and I didn't take a moon. They are charging for a
government and you're not using a card. I paid to collect the charges.
It is centrayd and you pay the message they charge you. So the bank
is taken to much money. Electric transfile ay even though when you make a
transfer you pay a fee. When when I miss a transfer, sometimes I
paid twenty in era, sometimes I pay fifty three error it's not on your
mouth. And then at the end of the month there is a book amount
that is removed as electronic transfer levee. Last month I paid as much as
seven thousand. Now that there is eight thousand for an electronic transfer levey that
I always pay even when I make a transfer, there is two times tasks
I am paying for making a transfer, so these are an issue that should
be looting Nigerians. I think if you look at it from a very wide
perspective, you will say Nigeria's I'm not just paying tasks. They are being
extorted by politic government and every other organization, every monetary of whichever our world.
But Nigerians are over stortage in their own country. That's my take.
I think I putant point raised doctor that in banking, credit has got to
be approved. If you debit an account and it gets to zero, it
should stop at zero. I'm just saying it should stop at zero. So
now make it go negative means that you've approved credit account. Where was the
sign? Where did you sign for credit? So it's an important color that
you're making now. Youn't bank to do this a lot? You know,
so a long time ago with an experiment that we put a thousand night in
a bank account and we're just watching go my thousand error every month they got
to zero and all that. It's wrong. It's wrong, and I think
me it to stop when someone sues them, and I know it. Pople
have to do this. You've got to sue and build a class section and
attach it bank and say I put one into in this account. I don't
transferred money. Why am I owing you? I didn't ask for credits.
You've given me credit and I'm on you and when you owe them, all
things been equal. If your credit is pulled in Nigeria, you should you're
delic quent borrower and you will never ask for credit. So it's a lot
going on there and I hope that they will stop it. It's a bad
practice to put one's account in debit over transaction fees when there's been no transaction
initiative by the customer. If it does in the US, you are going
to pay a lot of money for Nigeria, I guess. You know.
It's what's it called non interest income and then you will post a huge profit
in the quarter. So it has to stop. Maybe one speceis they will
pick one bank, ask guys to set up three shots of their account that
has gone from to negative and then we'll talk about their own spaces. We've
got to come people out, I guess, and then we'll take it from
them. A y maxim. My guys were wandering that were about saying it
twenty five minutes to go, but everyone will speak. Been a great topic
and just overtaxed. The answer has been yes and the overtaxed clearly that that
was the only correct answer. We are clearly overtaxed, not just the former
taxes, the informal taxes, the cost of doing business, the cost of
being the Nigeria is a tax itself. So we're just putting the calls to
disclosing. But there's always been yes from the startle. Any why you've got
the floors. Yes, I've been listening. I'm not a tax professional.
I am studying it at the moment, but my guards the tax professional and
you know sometimes of pat and from what I especially from more than these years
of statisation in Nigeria. It's like you know, studying very pop practices.
Yes, what's your people like? To take advantage this course? No matter
the country, true people also have to take as of government to the pensis.
Now that's the problem we have in Nigeria and over taxed in lots of
respect. You could stay yes, but on the flip side, so people
will say Nigeria are not taxing. You know, they're not being taxed off
in some respects because in echoers do everything. You notice that on paper and
the tackles, or you put into account all the other you know, levees
and everything on, you will notice that, oh wait, that's might actually
over taxed or you know, you know, depending on your perspective. My
own opinion on the matter is we need to encourage more businesses to write.
There are businesses that are shown to will be taxed atone Now those indirect or
unofficial taxis they are legality. If they don't need to paper love it should
not to pro exist. Government should do everything possible to make sure that itself
is the want to. If you want to collect more tax says from people,
you also need to justify it by giving as dependent on those taxes,
either by security rods or whatever you call it. Now, there's only a
lot of things that's too much to be changed. And I know the person
is a pacts trained in that shage. I've done my research on his professional
in his professional deals or whatever what's is changing. I know to know this
issue. I'm pretty sure about that. But you know the problem is that
if you need polity cow will, Yeah from me, you need polity card
will and enough for people don't like you touching your money, so they'll be
back you know the soundimes to say so right now, I think I think
most people are in the government already under science of issue. Most more people
business before that, people who probably have seen everything you don't. The species
have set in. But I think we are as ourselves as citizen, you
know, to our representatives, let us do that. If it's not it's
not favorable to us, and say, okay, talking leader, you can
change you know, how do you change you though? I tell your representatives
that, hey, look, we don't want this to be whole anymore.
So we must do everything in our power to make sure these things don't happen.
And also we must not encourage all those informal taxation. If nobody is
paying needs, if nobody is paying needs, then somebody if something has to
give, pay what you due to Scisar or what is not due to him
you have. If it's not me, by lord, you will have no
reason to pay ask for tax. Finally, common saty for motax we are
sorry. Commenters from motax is incombent On. I was, okay, if
I will pay the task, but we will will follow up with you enough
just trying to I'm shadily trying to have more taxation. Although it's not about
the world. We must hold them. If they're gonna call it the start,
you must hold them by the trousers are saying, we paid you this,
hap we want to see this because taxing gives us more, more leverage
and all those kinds. That's how I see it. Yeah, I mean,
the point is we support the government causing taxes now instead the space by
saying that Nigeria's tax to GDP is very, very low. So if you
look at just that data point alone, you're going to tell that Nigeria needs
to raise more tax revenues. But the problem is is how much tax revenues
and how are we going about to do this? You simply can't tax everybody.
I gr cannot be the main focus of any every government. It's got
to be HDI human development indicators. You've got to focus on what really matters
to people, clean drinking water, cheap food security. If you are taxing
people and people are seeing water, they are seeing jobs, they are saying
power supply. People would pay taxes without your asking. But if you are
taxing people out there are seeing subs and private jets, you're not gonna get
a penny that's really where we're going to with this really and trying to change
them, and you'll go try together those issues. The amount of or if
you go pull back and corstraction or you want, that's administration. It's infamiable.
So if anybody wants to do anything, they must have the full supportable
people. Do you understand you have to say, I don't put that to
the people. Must be aware because people to them manipulated because these people that
I have that idea against all this sut kind of thing, don't pay people
to come and make you look like maybe the governments think the wrong thing.
So it's a it's a sleeper slope. It's really not that easy. It's
really not that easy. Anybody goverment is trying to really get there. Eventually,
you know it's gonna it's going to us the aver disease that are offering
deffulty. It's going to look like it's a snal peace and and and and
and that's just truth matter. That doesn't give your position. If I give
position in the government to harry the fast issues in the country, the amount
of prostration that people who put on you to make people make it look like
a help, then okay, good, but I hear you first real quick.
Then whatever when you're done. Now first like let's take the rule and
then we'll take it to close. Thank you so much. First I go
ahead, so so so for me. In conclusion, if you want to
sort out wheven you is really like that, italize everything, digitalize everything.
Let me give you my Let me give you my experience at the airport.
The new told the new parking this thing they did the lake and it's not
they used to have a cures. But you come. You just put your
cures whatever amounts you do. You I mean, you've been to the trou
airport before in johann At the airport when you park your car, when you
come home, just work in your art. It tells you what you take
your t guitar payment and go. In Nigeria, I realized that everybody's second
things stem that will make them pay. That is what is done in Nigeria.
And that's why the tax officer we go behind the organization to speak to
the person who ought to play that for him not to pay, he gives
him the roop holes. I don't think that happened in other systems because you
know that when you do that, it's going to affect you and affect the
people other people. So if you digitalize all these things, let me give
you an next. I look at the idea you did in the federal Civil
Service. They at least to convey that thing to this level that everybody that
should you should throw it a week because it's tough on people from tea,
this ship the job. So until we also get to a point in the
dinner that we do the worst on people are crying. It's just to blackmail
this distance to allow them to have their way. And I mean, somebody
speak about Letty took it. I don't know anywhere in the world where did
you talk that. You say, when you play the money and you give
me away, it isn't that central gate, you will not pay It is
not possible anywhere. And then get anybody put me on that that you'll buy
a ticket in the morning when you're passing that same road in the evening,
you will not pay it. When you don't buy a ticket. Yeah,
but if I don't answer the question earlier, you you asked the question,
and answer the question if if there are many tour gates where if you buy
the one ticket you pay a discount rate. You firally answered the question that
most most most turgets. You know she's saying that when you pass the same
to get you pay the same rate. That what she said. But we
know that most tour gates, when you pass multiple times, you got to
reduce rates. And you know it's that you just answer it yourself. No,
Look can't see like I said, look at the too targets and labels.
It's because we just have that somebody owns it and then we stop somebody's
business and then a lot of people will laid off those same So these are
things that people who want to come and invested. Well, see if we
can't do that, look look at the airport, airport opposite airport. But
the point is that when we get a line to know what look our n
I am our big here. This is good in law to capture anything you
want to capture. But guess what I took people to do. Bank can't
have big year. So the banks are corporate. Look I've said in time
with that number. If you also want to straighten in Nigeria, how can
we bank eiven when people were losing your money? Bank? Is there important?
And yet those things. I mean, I think that your back is
one of the biggest come in. You can't you can't say that banks can
make money if individuals losing money, because the book of the drank customers are
not individuals. You head the NDS say that let's do that, and now
let's not do let's not make blanket statements. But what now let me copill
say this to you the company, I completely that the bank pay them for
the money with the USS you will use. Let me give you an example.
If I send money to my accuse from my GT to my GD they
charged me on both sides. What kind of charges is that? And business
started under immedately. They charged me from both sides the same from my stame
accounts. So when I say that you come, when will we complain about
you? When you are making a blanket statements, you understand we need to
complain about the services we get from the NAT company to not give you those
services that even when you pay your satisfied will pay me apply And now one
of the airlines they cancel my flights and asked to go to the counter and
bring the money. I got to the counter they start the honor of them
told me that they can't pay me. It took them one month to pay
me back. So some of these things that you see, these are not
things that is obtainable. They take advantage of you. They take those things
from you, and they tell you that it's a system. So like I
said, it works both ways until every session from government to the citizens change
their attitude forward and then you get all right. So again made of black
statements. The Nigerian banking as an institution, it's not paying the g seven
guys services. But I know that mean Nigerian individual banks wanted to know.
I let you to let me mute you felt like you've got to let you
got to allow for to speak that you speak so that way people follow,
you can follow. And making the just the point that individual banks didn't want
to pay and that wasn't accepted if you lose that same requirement. Before he
stopped individual banks pain, he wanted the banking sector as a whole to settle
the GSM fees, not individual banks. That's one number two. In certainly
Nigeria, it's a very very poor country. The bulk of the health the
deposits are below five hundred thousand. When you see the banks posting billionaire deposits,
it's from the same individuals just to recycle throughout the banks. So when
I jumped full focusing the jump backs and making profit, when it because I'm
not making a profit, it's because the same individuals and are just going through
the same banks. You can't expect a pornish right to have rich individuals.
That's the point I'm making. This country's minimum which is still thirty thousand naira
a month. Don't even bother converting that two dollars. It's still thirty thousand
narrow a month as your minimum wage in Nietuia until let's change. Let's get
Greg Gregy. Your hand is up, I'll get you so I can just
put your hands down and get no no no, because then okay, let
me just real quick, Greg, great, really really quick, yes,
because I just want to do it to Okay, so let's start. Let's
take that. Okay, that's fine, that's something completely fine. Yes,
please go ahead. Okay, so so that may be changed the investments just
like I just want to can you, I mean, Charles yourself like you
wait then will call to speak that okay, yes, thank you? Great,
go ahead, So as I was saying, having been uput as a
business consultant of putting in nine space, and I'm in the host of those
getting from an investment pause. I want to keep all this information in ninety
Yeah, just any business forgetta you are any business. Just the more you're
coming to Nigier. Just know that you can go upside down because yes we're
talking about page but personally, no companies where they are being good. The
stuffs are big well, and it is those since stuff that big world that
the APIs of damages to the companies in nineteen are making blanket statements. Because
are making blanket statements. You just can't say you know this staff a bit.
You have no proof, you have none. So let's stick to specific
not blanket statements. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter,
it doesn't matter. We'll all business consultants. I'm a business consultant.
To the point I'm making this, if you come, make it specific,
if you can say company, employees, person So I don't want general generics
because if your songs go to listen to the space, you say so specific,
so way we can we can follow. That's the point I'm making.
I don't want specific, sorry, generalities, Let's try to be specific.
You can call someone else. I'll let you do that, all right,
No, no, I all right, okay, So I hear no worries.
All right, all right, thank you, I hear you all right,
got you preachure, you've got the floor ahead. Thank you so much.
So my little contribution is that Nigerians are not over taxed. The problem
is the Nigerian I've been a taxing day around people. People living under the
poverty line according to word Bank, people who that you require like one point
one five dollars eight day to live about the poverty line or on the poverty
life per individual. If you check that in there, I should be around
three thousand for every normal individual to be about poverty life. You need at
least three thousands spending power every day per individual, not per family. And
if you check the deposit of trans trance of Ligurians to have bank accounts,
majority of them for pillue this line and the chunk of tax the governmental collecting
is from these cent people, so you make it seems we are the tax.
You know that we turn in money if it is another other countries.
Most of Naga will be below the tax bells that means are not required to
pay tax because what they are end is not enough to even sustained. So
you're saying that essentially we're collecting pe and that pee is the bulk of the
taxes, and because that pee is not a living wage, where else don't
tax that piece? Am I getting you writing? Yes? This is for
people who are in the formal sector. For those who are not in formal
text sector, like people who who put small businesses, people who are in
transport. If you can in town, you may be one ked right back
or one horse driver and see the kind of book of money they pay out
every day. Or if you open a small chaos business, I mean a
project, if you're opening a small curres business, just be sure that you
will be seeing at least fifteen different tax group every month to command calm money,
and they I'll ask you how much do you make here? What is
your what is your capital? To know the better they will put your own.
Do you understand to somebody who has the same provision store that have capital
of fifteen million will be taxed the same ways of our pollution store that have
the capital of eye frond the thousand all of them pay if they want to.
We want to charge you for for waste management, this an amount.
If they charge you want to charge you for for security? This center amount.
You want to charge you for a clear this amount. So there is
no like somebody said about streamlining what people in and what people can be taxed.
So Nangia is a tax just taxing their own people. There is one
prison can that said that you don't tax people who I need to leave them
up to plemoney. That's just the problem because if you if I have one
thousand eer for my for my upkeep today and government is collected from what the
government is collecting, even if it's one hundred and aer from it, it's
very perfuct because that one is not enough for me. Very yeah, and
it's a good point. It's a good point to it because the bulk of
the taxes come from PAY in Nigeria. Then I think we have V eighty
that's what's a separate one. But pay is the bulk of the taxes because
corporate goes to the federal government. Nigeria's largest revenue source is corporate income tax.
Then I believe if it's then V eight next, So in essence,
we're under employed on that paid, but we're over taxed because most of the
tax lager is regressive. If like you said, you're not the store,
they will come and tacked with the same amount of money, but makes it
regressive. You're going to pay the same as a as a shop that has
a larger capital, you would pay the same with them. So that's a
very very good point that you raised up achieves you, mister Francis preacher.
Thanks, I appreciate you being up on Francis, your hand is up.
Okay, good evening, I believe me. Yes, sir, okay,
good evenings. I considerate and not to be on your space for the very
first time. I always see the reinformation and are we check the reminder.
But my engagements on this doesn't allow me to come to that. I have
it my and here so a Angilians over tasks. So yeah, from the
bason that just dropped the last submission, I have a bit of his side.
And at the same time, I don't etally agree within Mangilians are over
taxed. So depending on which side or which states of the Nigeria that you
are doing businesses okay, so I am in Legos, but I have a
little knowledge of people running where I come from and also the once we're doing
legos. So I have a company that I work with and the little closeness
to some of the top directors. I have previy information of what the government
is doing with companies. So I don't know the double taxing in Nigerias and
there are taxes that I don't even know that what is needs. So recently,
at the close of twenty twenty three, the people that are going like
gaming, garbling, the football petting and all these things, the government started
taxing what they call commission tax number one. Two they call consumption paths and
the todd one is somehow funny it's the turnover tax. So I don't how
the business operates. So the the first people are the people that sells the
tickets to the points. So the second people, so if you talk of
lottery, are the people that stand as middleman between the company and the people
that say direct to the ordinary man of district of Legals and other parts of
the Nigeria. So in these three channels of this business, each of them
pays tax on commission tax and the consumption tax and the coeots. So that's
a site working if you open a shop or you want to sell anything in
the shop, so you have local governments tacts that they give different names.
The popular one legos is local show pal Show. There are another group of
people that call signage signage disday and set kind of things around your shop and
at least you pray for for different kinds of tact. I might not have
the correct names now records it is. So can I get you to like
if you can land the ships, if you can maybe speak up landing ships,
so I can just get us to speak if you don't mind, can
you make a point? Okay? Okay? So my point is that Nigerians
or the public or even the organized sectors are not really away of how many
tacks the particular business phase in Nigeria. If you if you look at it
is up to ten and all of them are the tax so before we go
to bad second, so we are over taxed. No the level of the
business you're doing. The companies are crying because much thank you so much.
I appreciate that. Guys. Guys, we'll go about I just want to
thank everyone that has contributed. Again, it's a very important topic and I
begs paying a lot of taxes. I think the answer has been a conclusive
yes. We are paying a lot in volume, in number, and in
persentage share of our income. We are paying a lot of taxes, and
it behooves on the government to essentially lower the tax trips because we are in
a recessionary period