1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,919 Hello everyone, This is Martin Willis, and I'm introducing a new show that 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:11,480 I do with four people generally all together, that is Chris DePerno on Ecker 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:17,280 Mandicbra. This week, however, Kevin Randall is taking Commanded Kobra's place, 4 00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:22,640 and it's called UAP Crossfire. I'm playing the audio to this one particular show 5 00:00:22,839 --> 00:00:27,559 to introduce it and to let you know that you can get this show every 6 00:00:27,719 --> 00:00:34,240 single week on Thursday evenings at eight to ten pm Eastern live on our YouTube 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,719 channel, or watch it any following time after that. Down below you will 8 00:00:38,719 --> 00:00:43,799 see a link to our YouTube channel. And this is over at KGr A 9 00:00:44,039 --> 00:00:55,799 Radio. UAPs unidentified anomalist phenomenon. Are they extraterrestrial interdimensional time travelers in origin 10 00:00:56,359 --> 00:01:00,920 or are they simply a result of top secret and military blacks, false flagged 11 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:08,159 alien invasion psyop, drones or other human made aircraft. Joined UFO historian Don 12 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:14,359 Ecker move On, State Director for New York, Chris Staperno, retired Federate 13 00:01:14,439 --> 00:01:19,640 pilot Commanda Cubra, and Willis dean host and researcher Martin Willis, as they 14 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:26,519 discussed the latest news and topics regarding UAPs with a no holds barred approach on 15 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:38,120 UAP boss Line. Hello everyone, and welcome to UAP Crossfire. I'm Martin 16 00:01:38,159 --> 00:01:46,079 Willis, and over here we have Christaperno. He is a former investigator and 17 00:01:46,519 --> 00:01:51,879 also involved in mofon. Down here we have Don Ecker, who's been at 18 00:01:51,879 --> 00:01:55,640 this a very very long time. He was involved with the UFO magazine years 19 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,480 ago and has written many great articles and books. And speaking of books, 20 00:02:00,879 --> 00:02:05,480 right down here, Kevin Randall joins us, taking the place of Commander Cobra. 21 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,840 Now, these are all veterans, and I want to wish you all 22 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:14,919 happy belated Veterans Day and all you out there as well. I'm the only 23 00:02:15,039 --> 00:02:17,759 non veteran in the house here tonight, and thank you all for your service. 24 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,919 Now, a couple of things we're going to be talking today. We're 25 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:27,479 going to be talking a little bit about a r O in the whole situation. 26 00:02:28,159 --> 00:02:36,479 And Kirkpatrick, I watched this live last night. He was involved in 27 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,560 like it was called UAP Clarity, and so I want to talk a little 28 00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:46,360 bit about that. He was joined by David Priest. He's an NSI speaker 29 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,960 on National security. Of course, Doctor Shearon Sean Kirkpatrick he is the head 30 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:58,080 of a r O, which is all Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, and also 31 00:02:58,199 --> 00:03:02,319 Shane Harris, who reports on US and intelligence for the Washington Post. And 32 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:07,280 I should mention this that Shane, for one, claims that he had a 33 00:03:07,319 --> 00:03:13,319 lifelong interest in UFOs. So the one thing I want to say that I 34 00:03:13,879 --> 00:03:17,159 get out of this whole thing, that I want to caution everybody about and 35 00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:24,240 point attention to really quickly, and that it should never ever happen, and 36 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:32,120 that is Sean Kirkpatrick is not naming people that are involved in I'm trying to 37 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:38,000 think what he called it. It was a technical office that helps them out. 38 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,680 He's not naming any names, and solely because he himself has been totally 39 00:03:43,719 --> 00:03:47,439 attacked and harassed, even his son, and I think there is no place 40 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:53,159 in the world for that type of behavior. It really makes all of us 41 00:03:53,599 --> 00:03:58,039 in the UFO community look bad, a black eye in my opinion, and 42 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,960 I just whoever's doing that, don't do it anymore. Please. It's it's 43 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:08,319 it's a terrible thing, but I believe. So I'm going to go around 44 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,240 and ask, you know, different opinions, And first of all, I'd 45 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,000 like to start with Kevin Randall who is filling in for a command of Cobra. 46 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:23,399 I want to ask what do you think of the aa R and Sean 47 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:30,240 Kirkpatrick's his job that he's done so far, we've seen it all before. 48 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,600 I think of this as you know two point oh maybe three point oh. 49 00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:41,040 If you go back to nineteen forty seven when the first UFO's flying saucers appeared 50 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,959 on the scene, there was a serious investigation that they started to learn what 51 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:54,360 was going on. It quickly degenerated into the debunking and ignoring the problem, 52 00:04:54,439 --> 00:04:59,199 and we're doing the scene the same thing here. We've had seriousness in the 53 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,480 beginning, but nothing has happened, nothing has changed. We hear about transparency, 54 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:09,240 but there is none. We are told that they've investigated eight hundred some 55 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:14,240 cases now, but they haven't told us exactly what those cases are. They 56 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,120 haven't told us much about the resolution of those cases, other than to suggest 57 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:24,959 that there was no evidence of alien visitation or extraterrestrial presence. We're getting absolutely 58 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:30,079 nothing. They've been distracted by I think people who are less incredible talking about 59 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:39,040 crash retrievals. Twelve crash retrievals, including some that we know our hoaxes. 60 00:05:39,879 --> 00:05:43,519 They don't seem to have any discrimination. I'm just not impressed with the thing. 61 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,759 I mean, we're way down the road and we really don't have any 62 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,959 more information today than we had two or three years ago. Right, anyone 63 00:05:50,959 --> 00:05:57,680 else want to jump in on your opinion, John, Yeah, this is 64 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,959 an extenuation, in my opinion, of the same dog and Pony sex show 65 00:06:03,959 --> 00:06:11,639 that the Pentagon and the intelligence people have been doing going on eighty years now. 66 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,079 Look, the bottom line is, none of those people, Kirkpatrick, 67 00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:21,040 none of those people have been read into the program. When you have the 68 00:06:21,079 --> 00:06:30,839 former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency tell Is told purportedly that you don't have 69 00:06:30,879 --> 00:06:35,480 a need to know, Okay, the guy that was heading up the DEIA, 70 00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:42,519 then hey, buddy, the fix is in. It's in. And 71 00:06:42,879 --> 00:06:49,959 recently a paper I wrote, I basically stated in there that whatever this core 72 00:06:50,399 --> 00:06:59,720 secret is, it will never be exposed simply because they discovered something. They 73 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:05,199 the powers that be discovered something back in the late forties the early fifties that 74 00:07:05,319 --> 00:07:13,079 they were terrified would eventually get out into the public, and they've shut it 75 00:07:13,279 --> 00:07:17,519 down forever and a day. And the bottom line is, if you get 76 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:24,839 right down to it, we're spinning wheels, all right, Chris, If 77 00:07:24,839 --> 00:07:27,720 I have to agree with Kevin Randall, first of all, I think this 78 00:07:27,879 --> 00:07:31,480 is a bunch of garbage. I mean, we've seen them try to make 79 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:38,759 fake things into real that's ridiculous. We've seen people who we take are highly 80 00:07:38,839 --> 00:07:44,279 credible, like let's take the guy of naval intelligence. I say this all 81 00:07:44,319 --> 00:07:46,879 the time. I knew the minute he opened his mouth, I knew there 82 00:07:46,879 --> 00:07:50,480 would never be disclosure. When he turns around and he goes, oh my 83 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:55,079 god, look at this triangle up here. We analyze this for months, 84 00:07:55,279 --> 00:08:00,199 and we came to the conclusion that this was a drug over a naval battleship 85 00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:05,519 or a cruiser or whatever with the most sophisticated radar equipment that was on that 86 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,839 shift. And they can't tell that it was a drone immediately. Come on. 87 00:08:09,079 --> 00:08:11,800 I mean, you know there's a bridge for U sale, but I'm 88 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:16,160 not buying it, so I can tell you this. I don't think disclosures 89 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,000 come in. And I have to agree with what Don says. I think 90 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:24,199 there's something maybe idious that they don't want to tell us, because if they 91 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:31,439 do, we're going to start asking secondary questions, and the secondary questions they 92 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,720 don't want to answer. Now, I'm going to go a little step farther 93 00:08:35,879 --> 00:08:39,120 and I'm going to put this out there because I you know, in some 94 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,039 of the move On reports, some of the people know whether I cannot vouch 95 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,639 for this, but I will tell you that people have said there have been 96 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:54,360 body parts and mutilated people when some of these crashes happen. Now, I'm 97 00:08:54,399 --> 00:08:58,720 not saying that that's been vetted. I will I will not stand and say 98 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,360 that's vetted. However, people have reported. So let's just say this is 99 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:09,120 true. Let's just say that they are doing bad things to us. And 100 00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:11,080 the US government goes, oh my god, if we put this out here, 101 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:18,360 how are we going to justify and handle all this? Well, guy, 102 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:26,960 it's the guy that originally did human mutilation research starting back in the late 103 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:35,240 eighties. Number one, I think talking about this, there's more than one 104 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:41,840 group of visitors, let's call them visitors coming here, more than one, 105 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:50,039 but one of them, in fact, has basically dealt in not only cattle 106 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:58,519 mutilations and mutilations of many other animals, including horses, bison, sheep, 107 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:05,519 but also the odd human. It has happened, as a matter of fact, 108 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:11,639 the other day. Two days ago, I just discovered another case of 109 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:18,120 human mutilation from Brazil that had been hidden until nineteen ninety four. I had 110 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,279 never heard of it. And believe me, back in the early nineties I 111 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:28,159 was up to my eyebrows in that research. But yeah, there have been 112 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:33,039 those things that have happened, and if that's part of the equation, hey, 113 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:41,639 they're never going to talk about that ever ever, Martin. One little 114 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:48,480 thing when I talked about this one of the Senate here congressional hearings, and 115 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,120 this is the thing that just got me. When the head of Naval Intelligence 116 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,879 gets there and says that we don't have a good enough computer to give you 117 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,759 a better shot of what was projected on the screen there. Do you remember 118 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:07,480 that he says, oh, our computers can't can't handle this. He brought 119 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,960 a maybe a lousy laughtop with him to try to show a picture at one 120 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,159 of the congressional heroes. We had some of the most sophisticated equipment in the 121 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:22,559 world. You can't tell me that they couldn't couldn't get a very sophisticated computer 122 00:11:22,919 --> 00:11:28,840 to show a congressional hearing. That that was just a joke. Well, 123 00:11:28,879 --> 00:11:31,320 if I can jump in. I'd like to say one thing about the same 124 00:11:31,399 --> 00:11:37,799 hearing. I noticed they asked one of the representative asked about the the mals 125 00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:45,600 from Air Force Base cutting down the missiles and the Navy guy that you've been 126 00:11:45,639 --> 00:11:48,759 talking about. Chris said, well, we haven't heard about that. We 127 00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:52,360 don't know anything about it. Later on, later on he actually said, 128 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,960 well, I do sort of know about that, so we've got him caught 129 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:03,879 in a fabrication. Wilson was either ken right, yeah. They he looked 130 00:12:03,919 --> 00:12:07,759 like a deer in headlights when they asked about Ambra Wilson, let's see. 131 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:13,200 Yeah, Well, you know, I'm in touch with a guy that's down 132 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,399 in Washington, d C. And he's been doing a deep dive into, 133 00:12:16,919 --> 00:12:20,600 you know, the transparency of UAP. I don't know if anyone's heard of 134 00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:28,399 Kevin Wright the Soul Foundation, that he's trying to really dive deep into what 135 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,440 is being what are they're being transparent aar, what are they being transparent about 136 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:39,759 or not. He thinks it's a total disinformation operation and I kind of agree 137 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:45,279 a bit with that. One of the things that I was watching last night 138 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:50,679 and kirk Patrick was asked the question, what about the uh, what about 139 00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:56,399 doing research on the TIC TAC you know, situation off in two thousand and 140 00:12:56,399 --> 00:13:00,240 four, And he said, well, first of all, it's about in 141 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,720 two thousand and four, and all the data we have on that is the 142 00:13:03,799 --> 00:13:05,919 data that you all have on YouTube. And you know what I call on 143 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,600 that, I call that BS total BS. They have more data on that, 144 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,240 you know, they do. The data bricks were taken off from the 145 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:20,559 Hawkeye, the Grumm and Hawkeye that was that. You know, there's more 146 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,799 than one witness that has saw those data bricks taken away, so you know, 147 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,840 somewhere maybe it's compartmentalized, but he should have access to it. He's 148 00:13:30,879 --> 00:13:37,279 supposed to have access to all these these you know, defense segments that are 149 00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:39,799 out there. You know, could they hide something like that? Why would 150 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:43,759 they hide it? All that? And the whole thing about the TIC TAC 151 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:48,360 that I think is really bizarre, that whole situation is that it seems to 152 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:52,080 me that the people in command would really want to know what the heck's going 153 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,000 on, and they it was just kind of like you know, casual, 154 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,279 Yeah, it'll send someone out there and take a look, you know, 155 00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:03,360 and then after they viewed what they saw, that they didn't do more exploration. 156 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,840 They just went out and they filmed a little bit and that's it. 157 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,000 Now would be like, oh my god, I'd want to find out only 158 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,240 Don, only Don, I could call it that. Kevin, I have 159 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:22,279 a question for you now, you've been in the military, you've written many 160 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,039 books, and you're probably one of the leading authorities on this, and I'm 161 00:14:26,039 --> 00:14:31,519 going to ask you about disclosure. Why what, in your opinion, why 162 00:14:31,559 --> 00:14:35,720 are they putting on this such a dog and pony show when most of the 163 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,759 people in the world believe in UFOs. Now, I think they're trying to 164 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:45,320 as Don has said, they're covering up the ultimate truth. They can't go 165 00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:50,720 to disclosure, and in intelligence, one of the things you do is you 166 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:54,440 deny everything. If you classified material, if you're called about it, you 167 00:14:54,759 --> 00:15:01,639 deny everything, even if the other side can out the information. I'm thinking 168 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,159 we say there's no UFOs, Well, if they land here, that pretty 169 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,879 well ends the conversation. But they haven't done that, so we can keep 170 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:16,240 our secret because they haven't cooperated in that sense. There's clearly something going on. 171 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,759 There's clearly something that they're hiding. And I think the other problem is 172 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,720 it all has to do with power. If they admit that they don't have 173 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,559 the answers, they begin to lose power, they lose financial gain. It's 174 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,600 all related to that, keeping power and keeping the financial gain. The other 175 00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:41,879 thing we have to remember is at the very top of the leadership are all 176 00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:46,559 elected officials or appointed officials to come and go with the administrations. It's the 177 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:52,799 bureaucrats at the lower levels that go on from administration to administration. They're the 178 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:58,559 ones keeping the secret, and they can keep it from their bosses. I 179 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:00,159 think the one thing you do, well, how can you keep it from 180 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,279 the president? And I think I've always said, well, if I was 181 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,879 a president, I would call the director of CIA and says, what can 182 00:16:06,919 --> 00:16:08,480 you tell me about UFOs as well as CLASSIF? But I can't tell you, 183 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,799 mister president. And my answer is you're fired, bring your deputy in. 184 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,279 But I think the real answer is, well, mister President, this 185 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:21,159 information is scattered over a number of agencies. Here. Let me pull together 186 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,480 a comprehensive report for you and we'll get back to you. And somehow that 187 00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:30,639 report never gets written, and pretty soon something happens and the interest wanes and 188 00:16:30,679 --> 00:16:33,960 they can go on to something else. And then pretty soon there's a new 189 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,320 administration in town and we can start all over again. So I think it's 190 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,000 just all of that combined. But I don't think they're moving toward disclosure. 191 00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:42,919 I thought at one time they were, but it's clear that there is no 192 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,720 transparency there bringing in people who have no sense of history of what's going on 193 00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:56,480 to talk about the UFOs. I know that at one point they weren't interested 194 00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:00,000 in looking at the history. They don't want to see anything later than two 195 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:03,319 thousand and four, two thousand and five. I'm thinking, to understand this 196 00:17:03,359 --> 00:17:07,319 whole phenomenon, you've got to go back to the very beginning and see how 197 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:11,720 it's gone and how we have come to the point where we're almost going to 198 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,240 hear about it. We're about to hear about it, and then pretty soon, 199 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:15,799 no, we're not going to hear about it. And we can point 200 00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:22,000 to specific places in the history nineteen forty eight with the estimate of the situation, 201 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,519 and the Chief of Staff of the Air Force says, no, you 202 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:29,799 didn't make your case. I want it rewritten, taking out the conclusion it 203 00:17:29,839 --> 00:17:33,359 was InterPlaNet. The craft were interplanetary as opposed to interstellar. We go to 204 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,799 nineteen fifty two. We've got ed Rupolt in there working hard to gather the 205 00:17:37,839 --> 00:17:41,759 information, and the next thing you know, the CIA is holding a panel 206 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:44,599 on the panel says, hey, there's nothing to this, and the attitude 207 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,920 of Project Global changes to not one of investigation, but one of debunking and 208 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,160 one of hiding information. We get to the late nineteen sixties and we have 209 00:17:53,839 --> 00:18:00,440 the Air Force commissioning the University of Colorado to study UFO. But what we 210 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,319 learn now in today's environment, and we have the documentation to prove that, 211 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:10,079 is that the conclusions were drawn before the contract was signed. A guy named 212 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:15,000 ed Robert Robert Hitler Robert Hitler, who was a lieutenant girl in the Air 213 00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:18,279 Force, wrote to the Conton Committee and said, here's what we'd like you 214 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,200 to find. That there's nothing to this. The Air Force has done a 215 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,240 good investigation and we should end the project. And lo and behold, we 216 00:18:25,279 --> 00:18:27,319 get down to the end of the project and what do they find. Well, 217 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,240 the Air Force had done a good job, there's nothing of scientific value 218 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,960 to be learned, and Project Blue Book should be closed. And that's what 219 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:38,599 they did. Yet they continued the investigation under other names, moving on and 220 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:45,480 then we find out in today's environment they've been actively doing this since for nearly 221 00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:48,400 two decades. So I don't think we're close to disclosure. And I think 222 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,319 they're doing a wonderful job of hiding everything and diverting attention from don't look here, 223 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,839 look over here, where something else is going on. And I think 224 00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:03,000 we're being led down the primrose path. And what's the end goal? That's 225 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:07,599 that's the most amazing thing, is what is the end goal for this? 226 00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:14,039 Because there's there's got to be some agenda that they have with this. With 227 00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:19,960 this, I'll tell you where it started. I believe December sixteenth, twenty 228 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,839 seventeen, when that Pentagon article came out. I think that's what this is 229 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:33,839 all about, and just trying to kind of make some type of effort to 230 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,640 make it look like they were actually doing something. I don't know. I 231 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,039 mean, it seems like that that's where all this spawned from. But Martin, 232 00:19:42,319 --> 00:19:45,640 here's the deal. It's just like Kevin said, they don't want to 233 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:52,799 know nothing before two thousand and four, two thousand and five, which we 234 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,519 know if we look back that far, we know it's not the Chinese because 235 00:19:56,559 --> 00:19:59,960 Pephansmatric said, well, we got to make sure it's not the Chinese. 236 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,880 We got to make sure it's not the Russians. They might have this technology, 237 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,640 we're not aware. That's bullshit, because well, the Chinese needed our 238 00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:15,119 planes in World War Two to defend their country. Don't forget Bill Clinton gave 239 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:23,759 them technology so they could launch the rockets in the nineties. So that's why 240 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:30,079 I say, disclosure, Is that anything soon? Martin? Well, there's 241 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:37,440 also the fact that you just threw me for a loop down because you got 242 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,039 me thinking about something else that's going on this track. The senior moment as 243 00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:48,880 they say, uh, oh, that's a Biden moment. I know, 244 00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:53,839 let's not go there, let's not go there, but uh you know, 245 00:20:53,960 --> 00:21:02,160 I think the bottom line with a ro O is that you know, they're 246 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,119 going to have a new director and everybody's curious. They have a temporary one 247 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,880 right now. Can't remember his name, but everybody is looking to them as 248 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,359 if they're going to have information. Now. If I was on the outside 249 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,279 and I just started looking into this topic and I watched that program last night, 250 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,359 I would just simply say, well, hey, there's time to move 251 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:29,359 on. There's really nothing. It sounds like they can resolve everything. And 252 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,359 by the way, the spherical UFOs, the orbs or whatever, now they're 253 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,160 they are making drones. So now just disregarding the fact that they've seen them 254 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:44,480 all the way back since the FOO fighters, now they're just saying, yeah, 255 00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:48,480 that's what that's what people are seeing is possibly you know, it's either 256 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,799 a balloon or a drone. These spherical you know, orb shaped drones now 257 00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:59,319 they have Well, there's something I think that the Pentagon and the intelligence people 258 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,599 are low to address, and that is the simple fact that since the very 259 00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:11,279 beginning, okay, even when we were still in the process, we the 260 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:18,519 United States of developing atomic warheads, UFOs, food fighters, whatever you want 261 00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:26,839 to call them, had an inordinate interest in our nuclear program, our atomic 262 00:22:27,319 --> 00:22:33,519 program from day one. Kevin mentioned Malstrom. There were several cases in the 263 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:41,599 United States where these objects came in and interfered with our ICBMs to the point 264 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:47,359 that literally a number of them became unusable. They had to replace them. 265 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,519 George Knapp, after the fall of the Soviet Union, traveled to the former 266 00:22:52,640 --> 00:23:02,440 Soviet Union and discovered that UFOs also interfered with their nuclear weapons. And this 267 00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:10,319 has been clearly documented. Okay, today probably the majority of the public have 268 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,440 no knowledge of this whatsoever. This is something coming out of the blue, 269 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:18,519 and I can see some of these people out there going, oh yeah, 270 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,759 right, Well, the fact of the matter is it happened, and the 271 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:30,079 government does not want to talk about that. Anyone follow up on that one, 272 00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:34,599 Well, I would just say that I think that if an outside force 273 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:41,599 can disable our retaliatory capabilities, which is the whole thing about Maelstrom, that's 274 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:47,359 a national security issue. And you can see why the government would want that 275 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,680 covered up. They don't want our competitors in the world to realize an outside 276 00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:59,799 force can influence the capability of retaliatory strike. That makes sense to me. 277 00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:04,440 But you look at other aspects of the UFO phenomenon and there really is no 278 00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:10,519 reason to hide some of the great cases. I think of level Land, 279 00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:15,599 for example, which was nineteen fifty seven. November of nineteen fifty seven were 280 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,319 the objects installed cars. The sheriff said that he'd gotten hundreds of phone calls 281 00:24:21,079 --> 00:24:26,880 on the night of November second. In morning November third of this UFO around 282 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:32,000 Levelland, Texas, I found out that Air Force officers were actually involved in 283 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,119 one of the cars that the Air Force officer was driving was stalled by the 284 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,880 close approach to the UFO, which is something that had not come out. 285 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,880 I outlined that in a book I cleverly called level Land, But it was 286 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,920 an investigation like that, And so you've got a capability that these things have 287 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:55,920 manifested that we have no defensive ability to reject. And the other thing you 288 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,799 have to remember, if I was an alien race and I wanted to invade 289 00:24:57,799 --> 00:25:02,799 another planet, I just stand outside the atmosphere and throw rocks at it, 290 00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:07,960 meaning pushing asteroids and meteors down, and if they attack that way, there's 291 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,759 nothing we could do about it. That might be another reason they don't want 292 00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:17,119 to discuss it, because we are so vulnerable in that fashion. So we 293 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,759 look at all of those sorts of things and disclosure makes no sense in the 294 00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:23,640 world today. They don't want to do that because they'll lose power, they'll 295 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:29,599 lose influence, and I think that's the driving force behind most of what's going 296 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,440 on here, not to mention the fact they really don't have all the answers. 297 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,200 They just know there's visitation going on, but they really don't have all 298 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,160 the answers about it. I personally think that's the biggest part of it. 299 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,039 That they don't have the answers they they may know just part of it, 300 00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:48,160 but I mean one of the things, as you say, you know, 301 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,279 if they've known at least something for a long time, they've got a lot 302 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:56,920 of explaining to do. And also the fact that they don't know whether they 303 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,359 can protect us from something that's in our skies. I think that's where the 304 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,920 fear, you know, the fear base of this whole thing comes from, 305 00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:11,599 and why they would try to keep it, you know, under cover what 306 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,640 the actual you know, what is going on and kind of brush it away. 307 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,079 And you know, you think of all the different things that they've done 308 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,640 over the years, the Robertson panel in fifty three and stuff like that, 309 00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:27,000 just to try to calm people down, the dal start the ridicule. Okay, 310 00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:32,319 so you're only a fool if you're looking into this. Still that still 311 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,240 goes on, not as much. It still goes on today. If you 312 00:26:36,279 --> 00:26:38,440 go back to nineteen forty seven, one of the headlines that Don Schmitt and 313 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,799 I found in a newspaper it said, you are flying saucers seen in thirty 314 00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:47,960 eight states except Kansas, and the gag was Kansas was a dry state. 315 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,599 You couldn't legally buy alcohol in Kansas at the time, So they are implying 316 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,680 that if you see flying saucers, you of course are drunk, and that 317 00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:02,200 kind of ridicule manifests itself today. Still, let me take you back on 318 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:07,680 what Kevin Randall said. Here's the thing that gets me is that perhaps maybe 319 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,960 they don't want to find the answers because they're scared of what the answers will 320 00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:15,200 be. Because we've talked about them turning off you have nuclear weapons, but 321 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:22,400 there's been reports that they've turned the mind. And that's very frightening that they 322 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,599 not only can turn them off, they have been reported to turn the mind. 323 00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:30,960 Now, if they can do that, that that is an absolute national 324 00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:36,519 security threat because there's somebody could turn on a new who's to say next time, 325 00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:41,039 they'll say, well, let's just fire one. I think the other 326 00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:44,279 thing you have to remember is is when you're when you're looking at that heard 327 00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:48,519 of that sort of thing, the national security aspect of it. They don't 328 00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,640 want, meaning the government, our government doesn't want our competitors to realize that 329 00:27:53,440 --> 00:28:00,359 our missile defenses can be influenced by outside forces. Uh, they're so supposed 330 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,279 to be immune to that, and yet we have good evidence that it has 331 00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:10,279 happened more than one time. Malstrom was the first one. But I've talked 332 00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:15,319 to missiliers from various bases like Franceasy, Warren, and Shy and Wyoming who 333 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,920 talked about similar things happening there. So it's a widespread phenomena. And at 334 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,880 Chris, your point is very good. If you can turn it off, 335 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,680 you can turn it on, and that's something that we really don't want anybody 336 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:32,960 else to know. Yeah, go ahead, and I'm sorry, Mark, 337 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,759 No, I'll go finished the thought I was going to kind of change a 338 00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:41,319 little. No, I'm saying I think because of those situations like that, 339 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,440 there's probably people in the Pentagon say, if we put our head in the 340 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,680 sand, because they've done it before, if we put our head in the 341 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,359 sand, maybe it'll just go away and we don't have to worry about it. 342 00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:56,640 Well, the one thing you have to look at is back in nineteen 343 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,480 forty seven, they were very concerned about what was going on, and slowly 344 00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:06,759 that concerned evaporated because the invasion force never happened. There was no really consequence 345 00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:11,880 of the appearance of the flying saucers, and here we are nearly eighty years 346 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,559 later, still nothing has happened, so they feel kind of comfortable in this 347 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,680 idea. Well, if it was going to happen, it would have happened 348 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,720 by now, so we can just sort of ignore the problem, at least 349 00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:29,400 publicly ignore the problem. So Mario Woods, I've had him on my show 350 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,319 a couple of times, and he was in the Air Force in security and 351 00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:41,240 he was at Ellsworth I think that's in the Dakotas. And what had happened 352 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,839 there many times after during a UFO sighting, and you don't hear much about 353 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:52,880 this, was that a warhead would go into launch mode. So he would 354 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,319 take their truck, their security truck, and drive it on top of the 355 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,599 launch door that gets blasted off, put it in neutral, and leave it 356 00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:04,240 and hoping that if the thing went into launch mode, the blast will go 357 00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:07,720 up and the truck might fall in and jam the missile and make it a 358 00:30:07,759 --> 00:30:15,640 non launch. This happened many times, so so there are there are sometimes 359 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,640 that they were messed with, but none of them ever launched, that's the 360 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:25,160 bottom line. But there was that's a real interesting case because he he showed 361 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,200 up when there was all the alarms are going off, and there was a 362 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:33,079 big orb over one of the missile heads and uh, one of the I 363 00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:37,200 don't know the launch sites, I guess you'd call it. And well, 364 00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:42,000 let's look at what would happen if if one did get launched. M okay, 365 00:30:42,079 --> 00:30:48,680 terrible, that would open up Pandora's box if we launched one, or 366 00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:53,599 if the Russians launched one or the Chinese. My god, even today North 367 00:30:53,680 --> 00:31:03,640 Korea purportedly has an ICBM capability with noakes. What would happen everybody ultimately would 368 00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:07,839 end up launching, and what would happen to the planet. The planet would 369 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:14,039 in essence be destroyed. Now, if those people, in fact, those 370 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,079 people, those entities, those visitors, if they do have an interest in 371 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,640 planet Earth, and obviously they must have some kind they don't want to see 372 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:32,839 the planet destroyed. So yeah, there there's there's there's a dichotomy there. 373 00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:38,920 I have thought about what in the world is truly happening? Hmm, I'm 374 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:44,200 not sure. I Dan, we talked about this before. I don't think 375 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,160 they give a damn. I really because if they really cared a lot, 376 00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:55,440 they I think they would maybe do a lot better job of helping us. 377 00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:59,000 I mean, everybody says, oh, you know, the aliens, they're 378 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,839 kind, they're pe I haven't seen any of that. I'll tell you that 379 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:07,759 we talked about it on your show, and I will tell you that I 380 00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:12,599 haven't seen anything that they've done that one would would help our planet. Well, 381 00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:17,519 you know, I've been banging away at this since the eighties, and 382 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,880 the one thing that I've heard from I couldn't begin to tell you how many, 383 00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:31,359 how many people, and from all walks of life, there are more 384 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:37,680 than one group purportedly that have been coming here. It's kind of like we're 385 00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:43,480 just off the freeway, off ramp. Okay, planet Earth is just off 386 00:32:43,599 --> 00:32:52,319 the freeway. And I was informed that a number of these groups are very 387 00:32:52,359 --> 00:32:59,559 benign. They're tilted kindly toward human beings. Others are here simply as a 388 00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:05,559 matter of scientific curiosity. Let's go to the zoo and see what the animals 389 00:33:05,559 --> 00:33:10,640 are doing. But I was told there is one, at least one group 390 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:17,240 that have an imnical hatred for humanity. Now I could never quite figure that 391 00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:22,119 out. I mean, my god, we can barely get out into space 392 00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:30,640 today by all accounts, what could they possibly have against us until I had 393 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:36,519 a really long involved conversation with Ingo Swan. Now, Ingo Swan, for 394 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:40,400 those of you who may not be aware of him, was the man that 395 00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:50,119 designed the protocols for the CIA and DIA's Stargate program. Okay, and it's 396 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,119 a long involved story. I'm not going to go into all of it now, 397 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:59,920 but the bottom line is all human beings have, to a certain extent 398 00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:07,079 a psychic talent. Now, Chris, and I will tell you that as 399 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,000 cops, as police officers, when we were out on the street, often 400 00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:15,719 we'd get what we would call a hunch or my gut would tell me, 401 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,880 am I right, Chris, Oh yeah, sixth sense. We just kind 402 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,159 of like something right with this. Yeah, it's psychic talent. And according 403 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:32,400 to Swan, this group of ets I will call them that are visitors see 404 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:40,400 that as a solid threat because they have a very strong, according to Swan, 405 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,440 psychic talent. Perhaps that's part of the equation. But uh, you 406 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:52,000 know, hey, look, not not all of them are are in it 407 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,000 for our you know, for our blood, but but there apparently there are 408 00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:06,079 some so well, I could I could tell you that if you're abducting people 409 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,960 and you're taking stuff from their body without their permission. If you're doing all 410 00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:17,199 that type of stuff, that's not that's not you know, there's no consent 411 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,119 to that. You know, some people call it an abduction or whatever experience. 412 00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:24,840 That's what did you tell that? By the way, I'd love to 413 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,840 tell Steve Greer a lot of things, I'll tell you that, but I 414 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,119 will tell you I call it kidnapping an assault. If you take me without 415 00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:37,880 my permission and float me through a wall and it started taking stuff from my 416 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:43,840 body without permission, that's they're treating me like they would treat a dolphin or 417 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,400 a seal or a whale like we do on this planet. I'm nothing more 418 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:52,719 than a specimen of them, and to me, that's not right. Hmm. 419 00:35:54,280 --> 00:36:00,519 Well, let's let's get back a little bit more to how we think 420 00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:09,320 this whole thing is going with do I want to say, transparency with our 421 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,239 government when it comes to this topic. Kevin, you mentioned, you know 422 00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:21,559 what we've heard all the way along, and it seemed to me, like 423 00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:25,519 you just said when we were talking about this in the beginning, that it 424 00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:29,559 did seem to me like, wow, we were really this is a real 425 00:36:29,679 --> 00:36:34,679 exciting time to be involved in this topic because it seems like, you know, 426 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,840 the scientists are now getting that's something we didn't have before. Science is 427 00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:43,000 really looking at this seriously. A lot of people in science are and it's 428 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,559 because of that article, you know, I believe. But in that regards, 429 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,480 do you think that there still could be a possibility that we're heading in 430 00:36:53,519 --> 00:36:59,239 the direction of knowing more with all the scientists involved, And that's directed at 431 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:07,039 you, Kevin Well the problem Avid Lobe is looking for probes, probably without 432 00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:10,840 any kind of organic component to it. When I talked to him about that 433 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:19,480 am he's talking about them sending out these these probes around the galaxy that would 434 00:37:19,519 --> 00:37:23,320 take tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years to get to their locations. 435 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:30,400 So he's moved in that direction. We have SETI, which is I 436 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:36,880 guess a scientific endeavor and an attempt to find radio signals from another civilization. 437 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,760 And I've always wondered, well, maybe they've advanced beyond radio signals and they 438 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,719 don't use that radio anymore, and so we're kind of looking for for nothing 439 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,760 there. And on the other side of that coin, do we really want 440 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,440 the aliens to be looking at our radio signals? That would include programs like 441 00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:54,880 Laverne and Shirley, you know about the two poor girls from Milwaukee. You 442 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,800 get an idea of the level of our intelligence in that direction. I think 443 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:07,320 that when we look at the idea of moving toward disclosure or more openness about 444 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:13,159 it. Look at the report Congress mandated they do a report, and when 445 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:19,639 it finally dropped in June of was it two thousand and two or twenty twenty 446 00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:22,920 one, When it finally dropped, it looked like a poor high school report 447 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,800 is what eighteen pages. I said, Well, we've been doing this and 448 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,880 we've been doing that, and we haven't really found anything. We've got one 449 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,880 hundred and forty four reports and we only solved one and then we've got to 450 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,599 do another one in six months. But that really didn't happen. And now 451 00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:42,360 we're to the point where, yeah, we're doing these reports, but if 452 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,159 you look at the reports, there's still nothing to them. It's always the 453 00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:47,639 same thing. What we plan to do is investigation. And we've gotten all 454 00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:52,760 these cases, and we're working with these other agencies and we're designing forms and 455 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:58,239 we're designing reporting protocols and that sort of thing, but we're not learning about 456 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,519 any of the cases, we're not learning about what they're finding. Instead we 457 00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:05,320 get diverted into other things. And so I think it's just all a big 458 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,440 distraction until public interest wanes in the topic and they can go back undercover. 459 00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:16,239 There's other people besides AVI, you know, involved, There's there's a lot 460 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:22,000 of scientists involved this that you know where. But then again, I don't 461 00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:29,679 know what type of research they're actually doing, you know, how far they're 462 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,360 getting with their different types of detectors. Some of them have talked about that, 463 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,800 but but I haven't seen I've seen the interest. I haven't seen any 464 00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:45,880 real forward movement. You know, there's equipment that they've been using, you 465 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:52,239 know, to detect things, but I just don't know how much they are 466 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,639 seeing and how much they can use, you know, when it comes down 467 00:39:54,679 --> 00:40:00,599 to the data that they always talk about. One of the things Kirkpatrick said 468 00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:06,920 over and over again last night, as I'll follow wherever the data and the 469 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,440 evidence takes me, no matter what, and so and I think that's a 470 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:15,199 very good approach. But I don't think that I think that, And I 471 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:22,760 should say that I know that he's been told things, but that you know, 472 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,159 what are really important. It has to do with For instance, I 473 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:32,280 just mentioned Mario Woods. He did a four hour testimony with them with AA 474 00:40:32,519 --> 00:40:37,320 r O and told them everything he's told me, and we're talking beings and 475 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,480 everything. But here's the problem. It's like, Okay, they can take 476 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:46,559 his testimony, but that's not evidence, and that's we don't that's the problem 477 00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:51,320 with the whole thing to get the hard evidence. It's always been such a 478 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:59,679 problem, and I think that's the witness testimony is not is not covering it 479 00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:06,159 enough, according to you know, the people that are in Aro and the 480 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,679 Pentagon, and that goes down to my paper. Okay, there is a 481 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:20,639 core secret about the UFO UAP phenomenon and it is covered enclosed by a special 482 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,719 access program. You don't get any more ultra top secret than that. And 483 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:31,960 unless you are on their bigot list, that's the list of people that are 484 00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:39,280 authorized to deal with this actual real information. Ah, you're going to get 485 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:46,360 is bullshit. Okay. Admiral Thomas Wilson discovered that. And I don't care 486 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:53,159 how much he denies the report that names him in it. Okay, he 487 00:41:53,280 --> 00:42:00,760 is required by law to lie about that. The SAP even acknowledging you know, 488 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:07,920 there is an SAP would put him in violation of federal statue. Okay, 489 00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:14,840 so he's got no recourse except to lie lie lie, And any of 490 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:21,599 those people that have any real knowledge about this are going to lie lie lie. 491 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:27,239 They have to Hmmm. I have a question for the entire group, 492 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:32,920 because this has been plaguing me. Why would Sean Fitzpatrick leverrow what he's got 493 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,920 the greatest think about this. He's working on the greatest question in the world. 494 00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:44,199 Are we alone in the universe? And he supposedly he should be able 495 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,239 to have David Brush says he doesn't, but I would think that he would 496 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:52,599 have unbelievable information coming into it. So if you're working on probably one of 497 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:57,719 the most important questions in the world, and you've got, you know, 498 00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:02,000 money, you've got govern and stuff, why do you leave? Why did 499 00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:08,559 he Why did he leave? Kevin He's been he's being pushed out, and 500 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:15,440 I imagine that I'm getting to that, but it's all but it's all speculative 501 00:43:15,559 --> 00:43:21,679 because we really don't know. We know that several weeks ago somebody else was 502 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,639 appointed over him. He's still the director, but there's somebody else that now 503 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,000 is sort of in charge. And then he says, well, I'm going 504 00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:34,519 to retire now. So he's being he's being forced out. But it may 505 00:43:34,559 --> 00:43:38,400 be that they feared that he was going to leak things into the public arena 506 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:43,199 that they didn't want leaked into the public arena, and so the way to 507 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,440 do that is force him out. And I don't know what kind of pressure 508 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:53,440 they might have applied to do that. And we've got the the people talking 509 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,800 about him not doing a good job, and then they he's now going to 510 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,880 retire. Well, he's been doing a wonderful job. And if you listen 511 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,960 to him talk in the various programs that he's been on, and I've sat 512 00:44:06,039 --> 00:44:10,960 through some of the briefings and in front of Congress or the Senate that we 513 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:17,400 could watch on through the internet, he never really gave any information about what 514 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,320 was being found. It was always about what, we're going to do this, 515 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:29,039 and we're moving toward getting this agency to provide us with information and that 516 00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:30,480 sort of thing. It was never about, well, we were looking at 517 00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:34,800 these things and you know, we're really kind of stymied here. We don't 518 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,119 know what's going on, but we've got these wonderful cases. And now they're 519 00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:42,239 talking about how they've solved virtually all the cases that have come to them, 520 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,679 so we but but the real point is we do not know because they're not 521 00:44:46,039 --> 00:44:52,199 being transparent, and that's the real crux of the matter. You were mentioning 522 00:44:52,239 --> 00:45:01,119 the scientific involvement. I've been reading a book about UFO witnesses, and there's 523 00:45:01,159 --> 00:45:07,559 a large number of people involved in the scientists sciences talking about eyewitness testimony and 524 00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:15,039 the reliability of it and how that really is not the best way to conduct 525 00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:17,480 science. You need something that's reproducible, you need something you can take into 526 00:45:17,519 --> 00:45:24,480 the laboratory, and somebody seeing an object in the sky isn't really great science. 527 00:45:25,039 --> 00:45:29,559 And you can draw as much information out of them as you can, 528 00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:36,079 but their memories are all colored by the environment around them. And I have 529 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,440 to take to mention the name but Don Menzel, the great UFO debunker who 530 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:45,119 was asked to review the Air Force Project Blue Book form on reporting a UFO, 531 00:45:45,199 --> 00:45:47,840 and he says, you've left out an important question, which is did 532 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,239 the witness wear glasses? And was the glasses on at the time of the 533 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:58,280 sighting? And I'm thinking that's really a germane question. You've got somebody who 534 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,519 wears glasses and see something they can't identify, you've got to know that what 535 00:46:02,559 --> 00:46:07,760 their eyesight is like and how it may have affected their perception of what they're 536 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:14,119 seeing. So we we have science going on, but it always, it 537 00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:16,880 seems to me, it's more of a debunking nature. Here's what you guys 538 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,639 are doing wrong, not how here's what you've done right, and here's the 539 00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:24,639 cases that are important, as opposed to here's the cases that we have solved 540 00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:30,079 by by looking at them scientifically. So you know, the point is, 541 00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:35,280 yeah, there's more science going on, but it's always sort of directed away 542 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:44,280 from the idea that there's alien visitation. SETI seti's looking for intelligent life out 543 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,199 there. Well, if we're being visited, they don't have to look very 544 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:52,880 far. But I said that, sorry, sorry about that. I was 545 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:57,119 just gonna say, they just don't want to hear about UFOs. They're not 546 00:46:57,199 --> 00:47:00,159 interested in that at all. They and they just got what to two hundred 547 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:09,079 und fifty million, fifty million donor a quarter of eight billion dollars to continue 548 00:47:09,079 --> 00:47:14,679 their work, and and some of it seems to me that it's just out 549 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,199 of date, looking looking at the wrong looking for the wrong thing in the 550 00:47:17,199 --> 00:47:22,599 wrong places, and there's other ways we could be looking for the intelligence rather 551 00:47:22,639 --> 00:47:25,119 than looking just listening for radio signals. So, but that's just my I 552 00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:28,679 think they do. I think they do more than that now, but I'm 553 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,840 not really sure. I don't know if they actually look at the techno signatures 554 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,920 or if that's just like the James Web. I'm not sure, but I 555 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,320 think they're they're doing more than just radio signals. But I had that conversation 556 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:46,199 with che Seth Shostak from SETI, and I said, you know what if 557 00:47:46,199 --> 00:47:51,639 they're right here and you're looking everywhere and they're right here. Uh. He 558 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,039 did not want to hear that, and he had an answer for everything immediately 559 00:47:54,079 --> 00:48:00,559 he was he was ready. He's a real passive, aggressive guy. Yeah. 560 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,320 Yeah, I'll say so, we have about six minutes before we go 561 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,199 into break. And when you were talking, don I think it was you 562 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:14,599 that we talked about special access programs of these private entities. Are they part 563 00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:22,199 of the government. Well, from what I understand, Martin, the recovered 564 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:30,840 material, and by all accounts we certainly have recovered material was then farmed out 565 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:40,800 to aerospace corporations. Okay, Now, the Thomas Wilson thing all right. 566 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:52,800 When he was requested by a number of people, including an astronaut several other 567 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:58,639 people to look into this. When he was still head of the da he 568 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:05,719 went back to the Pentagon. Somebody pointed him in the direction Venerospace company out 569 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,960 here in California. Now I don't know which one it was. I have 570 00:49:12,039 --> 00:49:16,480 a very strong suspicion of which one it might have been. I'm not going 571 00:49:16,519 --> 00:49:22,280 to name them, but he called them up. They wouldn't talk to him 572 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:27,760 on the phone. They said they could only speak to him under absolute you 573 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,320 know, covert means. He flew out, purportedly to the coast out here, 574 00:49:34,039 --> 00:49:38,039 went to this corporation. They took him into a secure vault and he 575 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:45,519 asked them his questions. Purportedly, the security supervisor pulled out their bigot list, 576 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,559 looked in Wilson's name was not on it, told him, sorry, 577 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:58,239 we can't talk to you about anything, and politely said goodbye to Admiral Thomas 578 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:05,480 Wilson, the the guy in charge of the DIA. He was not a 579 00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:12,000 happy camper, and by all accounts, when he went back he was ready 580 00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:19,519 to raise some particular hell until somebody pulled him aside and cautioned him about what 581 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:28,400 could happen to him before he finally retires from the government. Cooler heads prevailed 582 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:34,280 and he let the matter drop. But if in fact that's true, and 583 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:39,519 private corporations, and I personally think that's exactly what they've done with this material, 584 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:45,559 are now the people that are actually in charge of this and among other 585 00:50:45,679 --> 00:50:52,679 things, they have no worries. They don't have to respond to foyer requests 586 00:50:52,159 --> 00:51:00,599 or anything else because they are private and they are the people that they have 587 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,920 at this point the keys to the kingdom. Well, how could this be 588 00:51:05,079 --> 00:51:08,039 like say, generational, Like let's say we only got about two and a 589 00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:12,559 half minutes left for the break, but how could this be generational? Just 590 00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:16,199 to carry on? Like to say, it's a corporation of private corporation and 591 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:22,000 they'd be housing this stuff for like decades. There is something else that we've 592 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:29,079 got to take into account. Okay, Back in forty seven, among several 593 00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:36,800 other things, after the Roswell event, the CIA came into its existence. 594 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,719 The United States Air Force broke away from the US Army Air Corps. It 595 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:51,559 became its own service entity, and the National Security Act was enacted. Now 596 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:59,679 that is truly the scary part because under the National Security Act, if something 597 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:06,840 or someone is deemed to be a threat to national security, anything can be 598 00:52:07,039 --> 00:52:15,519 used against this individual or entity, up to and including premeditated murder. Now 599 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:23,760 I could see a private corporation whacking somebody much quicker even than the government. 600 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:29,639 Chris, would you agree with that? Well, David Grusha said, basically 601 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:35,320 said that, hey, murder has been been committed. Well, he asked, 602 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:40,639 he brought it up. He says that people over this topics have been 603 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:47,360 killed. Now, so generational. You got somebody that's retired, and they 604 00:52:49,079 --> 00:52:55,320 saw where all the bones are. I could easily understand them taking somebody like 605 00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:00,280 that out before they would have a chance to talk. All right, Well, 606 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,039 we got to go to break, so hang in there. After these 607 00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:08,519 commercials will be right back with more oops. Sorry about that, everyone, 608 00:53:08,599 --> 00:53:13,880 My camera, my camera, there's my camera. Welcome back. Here we 609 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:19,400 are again UAP crossfire. We got Chris, Don Kevin and I Martin Willis. 610 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:24,639 And one of the things I wanted to start off with is and also 611 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:30,679 in that roundtable or whatever it was last night that I watched with Kirkpatrick, 612 00:53:31,679 --> 00:53:39,400 he was asked by a moderator, are any of the people involved in aro, 613 00:53:40,679 --> 00:53:46,400 we understand the looking for signatures that maybe Russian, maybe Chinese or any 614 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:54,440 of our adversaries. Is anyone there in aar looking at this for the possible 615 00:53:54,559 --> 00:54:00,320 signature of extraterrestrial And he quickly said no, just like that, And I 616 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:07,360 thought that was pretty interesting myself. But he did say, you know, 617 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:13,280 he went on to say that that's up to the academics and the scientists on 618 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,559 the outside that I guess they're contracting with. That's what I took out of 619 00:54:16,599 --> 00:54:22,480 it, and they need to do like peer reviewed papers on how something like 620 00:54:22,519 --> 00:54:27,719 that would look like, how would something like like that look like. He 621 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,280 also said one thing that I thought was pretty interesting is that, and I 622 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,079 have to agree in a way, you know, it makes sense, is 623 00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:37,119 that, you know when people are saying, well, this thing just defies 624 00:54:37,159 --> 00:54:42,280 physics, and he's saying, no, it doesn't. You know, it 625 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,639 just defies what we basically know. And that's I do agree with that, 626 00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:52,239 that's probably true. But he's saying there's theories for every type of physics that 627 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,840 there possibly is. But I don't. I still think there may be unknowns 628 00:54:54,840 --> 00:55:01,119 in physics. But still the bottom line is he He basically saying that there 629 00:55:01,199 --> 00:55:07,400 is really nothing that we're going to look at as far as the possibilities of 630 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:13,800 extraterrestrial in this program that they're doing. Any thoughts on that, anyone, 631 00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:23,119 Well, I would have to say that, once again, we're dealing with 632 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:31,360 the Pentagon and intelligence agencies, dog and pony sex show. Okay, Look, 633 00:55:34,199 --> 00:55:40,360 we would know. I would think we have one of the most extensive 634 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:51,880 intelligence gathering operations ever. I mean, there is a midrid of different groups 635 00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:58,840 within the federal government that collect and analyze intelligence, all right, not just 636 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:06,159 the CIA, not just the DIA, not just the NROO, not the 637 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:13,559 NSA. There's a ton of them, and they would know if the Russians, 638 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:20,480 the Chinese, or anybody else had this advanced technology, they would know 639 00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:25,159 it. So what does that leave us with? Okay, it leaves us 640 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:34,800 with in my book, one of three possibilities. Number one extraterrestrial, all 641 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:42,320 right, that's the most obvious. But the second one that we've got to 642 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:51,760 take a look at is the possibility of inter dimensional travel from a different dimension, 643 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:57,960 a different universe. And the third, and this is something that I've 644 00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,679 only begin begun to consider, probably in the last ten to fifteen years, 645 00:57:04,599 --> 00:57:15,440 the remnants of a very advanced human civilization that abandoned the planet for a while 646 00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:21,920 at the end of the Ice Age, the Younger Driest event, when much 647 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:29,519 of the planet became uninhabitable after that catastrophic thing that happened, but eventually came 648 00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:36,639 back and may now be living among other places under the oceans or even underground. 649 00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:43,320 So there are three possibilities that I have personally looked at, and any 650 00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:52,639 one of those three could conceivably be the secret behind these unexplained machines traveling in 651 00:57:52,639 --> 00:57:59,960 our skies. So this guy, the way, he just arbitrarily pooh poohed 652 00:58:00,119 --> 00:58:04,159 that, Well, I don't know about you guys, but that tells me 653 00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:14,679 tons and they still don't want to talk about aliens, anything else but aliens, 654 00:58:15,159 --> 00:58:21,480 because if they talk about aliens, then once again Pandora's box becomes open, 655 00:58:22,119 --> 00:58:25,320 and they don't want to deal with the fallout from that. Well, 656 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,920 he tried to put a spin on it last night, Kirkpatrick, that is, 657 00:58:30,639 --> 00:58:36,599 he said that if it was extraterrestrial, it would have been so much 658 00:58:36,639 --> 00:58:43,360 easier and so much safer than our adversaries. And to me, I know, 659 00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,719 to me, it was like, why uh, because extraterrestrial would be 660 00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:55,599 a total unknown, their intentions, their capabilities, the double speak, and 661 00:58:55,639 --> 00:59:02,320 the obscucation, okay, and quite frankly, the pure bullshit of their position. 662 00:59:05,239 --> 00:59:14,199 Hmm yeah, Chris, what do you think of that? Well, 663 00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,519 all right, here's what I think. They know it's not the Russians, 664 00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:20,519 and they know it's the Chinese, but they're using narratives so they can get 665 00:59:20,639 --> 00:59:25,960 money. If you're going to say it's Aliens and and and put that out 666 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,920 there like that, I don't. I don't think they want to do that 667 00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:34,679 just yet, but I do know they want money. And I think that 668 00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,039 if you kind of love, well, the Russians may have this technology, 669 00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:43,039 we got to catch up, you know, the Chinese may have this technology. 670 00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:45,639 We got to catch up, and it'd be so much easier if it 671 00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:49,800 was them. But we just don't know. We don't know if it's Aliens. 672 00:59:50,239 --> 00:59:53,599 Got so maybe it's the Russian Chinese. Send us more money and so 673 00:59:53,639 --> 00:59:59,440 we could do more. I think money has to play a part into this 674 00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:05,239 whole disc disclosurely because we have changed the narrative. We have gone seventy years 675 01:00:05,639 --> 01:00:09,760 and said they don't exist. We don't know what's flying around the skys and 676 01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:14,800 we could care less to all of a sudden, it's a threat. It's 677 01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:20,119 a threat to national security. It's a threat to our airspace, it's a 678 01:00:20,159 --> 01:00:27,360 threat to our ships. And they're moving the agenda that I don't like because 679 01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,679 once you start that going down that road, there's some bad things that can 680 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:37,639 happen. And I think this is all a playbook for a final outcome, 681 01:00:37,679 --> 01:00:43,119 and I don't like what I think the outcome might be. Mister Randall, 682 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:51,480 what do you think looking at it from a point of view? I think 683 01:00:51,519 --> 01:00:57,280 Kirkpatrick's point of view is they're too sophisticated to talk about it being aliens, 684 01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:02,480 even though they may be looking for aliens, and they disguise that by suggesting 685 01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:07,559 we're not looking for that sort of thing. But if he's going where the 686 01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:10,519 evidence takes him, I think eventually he would have to have gone to that 687 01:01:10,679 --> 01:01:15,440 location. There's no way around it. So it may be that they're looking 688 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:22,559 at it as a way of we're going to eliminate the prosaic now before we 689 01:01:22,639 --> 01:01:28,719 get to the exotic, and by doing that we end up at the place 690 01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,400 we want to be. I think the place they want to be is to 691 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,800 be able to say, well, there's nothing to it and you all can 692 01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:37,760 go home, there's nothing to see here, move along type thing. But 693 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,639 the fact that he would say, well, we're really not looking for aliens 694 01:01:40,679 --> 01:01:45,039 makes sense to me. Even if they are looking for aliens, but I 695 01:01:45,039 --> 01:01:47,079 think what they're really looking for is I think Chris kind of hit it at 696 01:01:47,079 --> 01:01:52,119 this what our competitors in the world are doing. I'm more worried about that 697 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,800 than aliens, because, as I said, if we go back to the 698 01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:00,079 beginning of the modern era of UFO, and that would be actually with the 699 01:02:00,119 --> 01:02:07,760 food fighters has been going on for quite a long time, and there has 700 01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:15,000 been no overt hostile action that we're aware of. It seems to me that 701 01:02:15,119 --> 01:02:22,119 most of the problems we run into is accidental injuries of people who were approached 702 01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:25,880 too close to the UFO or the UFO approach to approach too close to them, 703 01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:30,719 with some notable exceptions. I think Don alluded to that at one point, 704 01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:37,760 but I just think that that comment is something that the government official would 705 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:45,119 say to a keep away from the ridicule factor and be knowing full well that 706 01:02:45,239 --> 01:02:50,880 if you're looking for these sorts of you're studying unusual phenomena. Whatever the source 707 01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,960 may be, you'll eventually get to where you want to go. You know. 708 01:02:55,039 --> 01:02:59,800 One of the things that Chris just mentioned was the money. And I 709 01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:04,840 think that's really important because that's, you know, the old saying, follow 710 01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,480 the money. I think that goes all the way back to Watergate. But 711 01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:14,159 really, when you think about it, NASA's fund funding for looking at the 712 01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:19,199 UAP topic was one hundred thousand dollars. I mean, that's like a lunch 713 01:03:19,239 --> 01:03:23,480 break money for them, you know. So, I mean, I don't 714 01:03:23,519 --> 01:03:28,519 think it's another thing. You know, we haven't talked about NASA, but 715 01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,480 it is another thing that I don't think they're really I don't believe that they're 716 01:03:32,519 --> 01:03:37,039 really taking it seriously. I don't know what anyone thinks about that on this 717 01:03:37,079 --> 01:03:44,159 panel. I noticed the same thing when NASA had their big meeting. Whenever 718 01:03:44,159 --> 01:03:46,800 it was I sat through the whole darn thing, and again it was more 719 01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,480 of this, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. 720 01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:52,199 But it really didn't seem that they were taking it seriously. They're not really 721 01:03:52,199 --> 01:03:57,559 interested in this. They have other priorities that they're more interested in, and 722 01:03:57,679 --> 01:04:01,119 this is sort of a diversion to them something they really don't want to be 723 01:04:01,199 --> 01:04:05,679 engaged with again because of the ridicule factor. And I would think that if 724 01:04:05,719 --> 01:04:12,800 we were able to demonstrate and interstellar spacecraft that actually visited Earth, the NASA 725 01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:15,880 budget would explode because now we know it's possible. At this point, we 726 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,880 sit here and we say, well, we know interstellar fight is really impossible 727 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:23,280 because the speed of light is the limiting factor and all of that. Well, 728 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,400 what if they figured out a way to defeat that? And once you 729 01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,239 know something is possible, you begin to look at look for it. But 730 01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,440 if you think it's impossible, you're not even going to try. So I 731 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,320 would think that they would want to explore this because of the possibility that it 732 01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:41,840 would increase their budgets. But I think that they look at it as something 733 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,679 that's just a diversion and they really don't want to be caught up in the 734 01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:56,119 UFO phenomenon right in NASA. NASA has been disingenuous for a huge part of 735 01:04:56,159 --> 01:05:00,960 their existence. And I'm just going to mention a couple of things. Number 736 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:05,679 One, back in the sixties and we all were there, Okay, we 737 01:05:05,679 --> 01:05:13,159 were youngsters, but we watched I watched Project Mercury as a kid, and 738 01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:17,000 boy, I'll tell you what I was excited. I watched Gemini, I 739 01:05:17,159 --> 01:05:21,920 watched Apollo, and of course Apollo at that time was the crown jewel. 740 01:05:23,519 --> 01:05:28,360 We were in a desperate race with the Soviet Union to see who could get 741 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:33,440 to the Moon and return safely first. Well we did it. And during 742 01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:39,280 that period of time, if you will recall, and I'm sure a lot 743 01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:45,559 of this stuff today is online can be tracked down, there were plans galore 744 01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:50,280 about what we were going to do after we got to the Moon. There 745 01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:58,679 were things like lunar colonies being planned. There were things like lunar manufacturing because 746 01:05:58,719 --> 01:06:03,719 there are a lot of processes in that much much less g environment up on 747 01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:09,199 the Moon that we could do faster, easier, cheaper. There were talks 748 01:06:09,199 --> 01:06:16,159 of placing military forces on the Moon. We went there six times. We 749 01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:21,800 had one mission that thank god we didn't but we almost lost the astronauts on 750 01:06:23,719 --> 01:06:30,079 and then suddenly we pulled the plug on it period. And NASA's explanation was, 751 01:06:30,239 --> 01:06:34,159 well, you know, we've been looking at the American public. They 752 01:06:34,239 --> 01:06:42,280 now see these lunar missions as routine. They lost interest. So we're going 753 01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,440 to cancel it. Now. I don't know about you, guys, but 754 01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:50,880 I've heard buckets of bullshit before, but that one took the top billing for 755 01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:58,840 me, all right. And we had future missions planned, We had the 756 01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:04,880 equipment, including rockets built, We had the astronauts trained and ready to go, 757 01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:15,119 and they didn't. Then we started hearing rumors that there was another presence 758 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:21,480 on the Moon well after December of seventy two. Okay, the only thing 759 01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:30,079 we did was going to close Earth orbit with everything up through the Shuttle missions 760 01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:38,360 in the eighties. But then something strange happened, guys, something strange, 761 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:44,559 and Kevin Randall, will I think acknowledge what I'm about to say, all 762 01:07:44,639 --> 01:07:51,320 right, because he served in an intelligence capacity, as did I in Vietnam. 763 01:07:53,519 --> 01:07:59,679 We suddenly went back to the Moon with the Clementine mission in nineteen ninety 764 01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:04,719 four, and Clementine had two objectives. Number one was to a close asteroid 765 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:11,440 flyby which they had to cancel because of technical problems, and go back to 766 01:08:11,559 --> 01:08:23,199 the Moon and completely and entirely remap and rephotograph the entire Moon. They took 767 01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:30,479 the BMOD okay, ballistic missile people took two points and NASA NASA was a 768 01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:38,920 part of this two point five million photographs of the moon. Okay, how 769 01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:45,159 many of those have ever been released? They were all classified. Even other 770 01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:51,960 elements within the Clementine hierarchy were not permitted to see these photographs. Now, 771 01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:58,600 Kevin will tell you, and I'll tell you that in war time, okay, 772 01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:05,079 we'll have reconnaissance missions that will overfly something that's interesting and will photograph it, 773 01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:12,520 go back, analyze the photographs, then perhaps wait a little bit, 774 01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:17,600 go back and rephotograph it again to find out what changes may have been made. 775 01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:26,039 Gentlemen, I am convinced, all right that the hierarchy, the people 776 01:09:26,079 --> 01:09:33,319 in the know already knew there were and is a presence on the Moon. 777 01:09:34,039 --> 01:09:41,840 They got photographs of it during Apollo. But Clementine, at least in part, 778 01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:46,239 was to go back completely rephotograph the moon and find out what, if 779 01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:55,800 any changes would be. Now, what could be more impactful to national security? 780 01:09:55,960 --> 01:10:00,279 And if you get right down to what world security, the knowing that 781 01:10:00,359 --> 01:10:05,560 there is probably an extraterrestrial presence that's been on our moon for a long time, 782 01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,800 and what the hell are they up to? Gentlemen, do you have 783 01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:19,119 any thoughts about that? Kevin throw the ball to me. Huh yeah, 784 01:10:19,239 --> 01:10:25,760 oh yeah, he mentioned your name a few times. Don is right about 785 01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:30,880 one thing, and intelligence work. You photograph, you do g Reconiz's missions. 786 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:34,600 You photograph, you go back to see what has changed, to see 787 01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:39,199 what's going on, and that sort of thing. It is curious that we 788 01:10:40,199 --> 01:10:43,239 made the effort to go to the Moon in the sixties, made the effort 789 01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,479 to talk about what was going to happen next. We were going to go 790 01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:51,600 to Mars. We should have been on Mars literally decades ago. And yet 791 01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:56,119 they said, well, as Nod has mentioned, the American public was against 792 01:10:56,119 --> 01:10:58,920 it. Well, you know, we spent four hundred million dollars to go 793 01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,800 to the Moon. I'm thinking, yeah, but the money didn't go. 794 01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:05,479 It still remained here. It was put back into the economy and various aspects 795 01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:13,560 of it. It wasn't like we burned up the cash. But there's curious 796 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,000 things that have been going on in the Moon, and it makes perfect sense 797 01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:18,960 to take a look at it, especially on the dark side of the Moon, 798 01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:25,239 where we rarely get a glimpse of what is happening there. And I 799 01:11:25,279 --> 01:11:30,880 think they're finding things about the Moon that we didn't expect. But I just 800 01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,720 don't understand that. And I heard what Don had talked about too about the 801 01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:42,079 Clementine program and that literally millions of photographs that you had had to have special 802 01:11:42,119 --> 01:11:46,359 clearance to see the photographs. What possibly could you have seen on the Moon 803 01:11:46,399 --> 01:11:53,159 that would have to be classified right in the photographs? I mean, there's 804 01:11:53,239 --> 01:11:59,159 no reason for anything to be classified there. You would say, well, 805 01:11:59,159 --> 01:12:01,520 maybe it has to do with the equipment used, and they may gather some 806 01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:08,640 sort of information about our capabilities of photographing stuff from long distance away, And 807 01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:13,600 you're thinking it really wouldn't tell you much of anything, if the pictures of 808 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,319 the Moon wouldn't tell you much of anything. So I don't understand that whole 809 01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:24,720 part of NASA classifying it and keeping that information away, not just from the 810 01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:29,199 general public, but from their own people. In some instances they just didn't 811 01:12:29,239 --> 01:12:32,880 have the need to know. So it's really a conundrum in that respect. 812 01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:40,159 Now doesn't the Moon have isn't helium three that's supposed to be something that they 813 01:12:40,159 --> 01:12:46,000 could actually mine and use? Yes, fusion reaction, Yes, yeah, 814 01:12:46,159 --> 01:12:51,199 I mean I'm surprised that no one's looked more into doing some type of mining, 815 01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:56,000 you know, you know, to talk about mining asteroids, you know, 816 01:12:56,039 --> 01:13:00,600 with all the metals and whatever, and one of the things, you 817 01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:02,560 know, I mean, you think about if they say, like an asteroid 818 01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:09,359 is full of diamonds and platinum and gold or whatever it is. But anytime 819 01:13:09,359 --> 01:13:13,239 you make something I mean, I know I'm going way off topic here, 820 01:13:13,319 --> 01:13:17,720 but if you could harness an asteroid and it had like a million pounds or 821 01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:24,960 a billion ounces of gold, what happens to gold? Right? If gold 822 01:13:25,039 --> 01:13:29,560 is plent plentily available, or if it's contained in one area you know, 823 01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,000 would have to be I mean, it's so bizarre how we you know, 824 01:13:32,039 --> 01:13:35,760 we we place values on things and when it has to do with rarity and 825 01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:40,800 stuff like that. But again, I'm going way the hell off topic. 826 01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:45,680 Has nothing to do with UFO. Someone bring me back quick. How about 827 01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:49,479 if I asked Kevin Randall this because I wanted to get this in before. 828 01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:56,640 Kevin, you're really in the hot seat tonight. Yeah, you'll get able 829 01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:00,399 to sit back and just kind of enjoy the conversation. YEA, No, 830 01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:02,079 that's not the way this show rose. We get out of each other. 831 01:14:02,119 --> 01:14:08,199 Next time. Here's here's one of the things you were you were saying, 832 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:12,840 I remember you say, well, we don't think they're hostile, so we 833 01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:17,159 don't really give it much thought. But listening to David Grush, there was 834 01:14:17,199 --> 01:14:23,319 two things that stuck out with David Grush's interview with News Nation. One, 835 01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:28,920 while they were talking to him, they asked him about Roswell and he said, 836 01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:35,039 I am not authorized to talk about Roswell. Right, you allude to 837 01:14:35,079 --> 01:14:41,319 the fact that he was told leave that subject alone, which tells me he 838 01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:46,720 was briefed before he went on went on any type of news to tell all 839 01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:53,039 this. He was he was instructed that there's certain things you're not going to 840 01:14:53,119 --> 01:14:58,880 talk about. The second thing is he actually did say and and nobody has 841 01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,880 really did a big thing about it, but he said there's been hostile encounters 842 01:15:03,079 --> 01:15:10,760 with UFOs. He actually said that, and I was absolutely amazed when he 843 01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:15,079 said that. But he didn't get the specifics. David has never been with 844 01:15:15,279 --> 01:15:18,039 specifics, not certain things. So my question to you is, sir, 845 01:15:19,079 --> 01:15:24,279 what do you think of David Grush, the disclosure of what he says, 846 01:15:24,319 --> 01:15:29,079 because they're back on disclosure Martin, the disclosure of what David Brush said, 847 01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:35,159 and how credible do you think as a professional in uthology David Grush is. 848 01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:42,039 Let me preface this by saying, I really hesitate to say anything nasty about 849 01:15:42,039 --> 01:15:46,079 anybody anymore, because it always comes back to Hautbaker, even when I'm right. 850 01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:54,000 But the problem with Crush is he didn't say anything we didn't already know. 851 01:15:55,039 --> 01:15:59,279 He talked about He talked about this Italian UFO crash from nineteen thirty three, 852 01:15:59,359 --> 01:16:04,399 which had been investigated by some of my colleagues in Italy two decades ago, 853 01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:06,800 and decided it was a hoax. And I'm thinking, how credible can 854 01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:12,960 this guy be if he isn't aware of that investigation. He alluded to Roswell. 855 01:16:13,319 --> 01:16:15,640 But good lord, if you were talking, if you were pretending you 856 01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:20,600 knew something from the inside, you'd have to mention Roswell because everybody knows about 857 01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:26,039 this. Was it twenty years ago? Something like that. Russ estes and 858 01:16:26,359 --> 01:16:31,159 DoD Ecker knows. Russ said to me at one point, nobody knows what 859 01:16:31,279 --> 01:16:34,880 Roswell is. You ask ten people on the street, is what's the big 860 01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:39,479 deal with Roswell? They're not going to know today. You say, what's 861 01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,479 you know? You asked ten people on the street, what is Roswell? 862 01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:48,960 They're going to talk about aliens. It's in the public ether around us, 863 01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:54,760 so he had to mention Roswell. But he's given us absolutely nothing. Russia's 864 01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:59,960 giving us absolutely nothing that we can look at. He doesn't name name, 865 01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:05,520 he doesn't provide hints of where things might have happened. He says, well, 866 01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:12,680 there's twelve, twelve incidents. I'm wondering who he's talking to, because 867 01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:17,359 I can point to people that I've been in contact with who talk about various 868 01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,319 aspects of this, and I know that they're not telling me the truth, 869 01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:25,439 that they've heard something from someone else and they've just kind of incorporated it into 870 01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:29,199 their stories. I want to know who he's talking to. I want to 871 01:17:29,239 --> 01:17:30,640 know what they've told him. I want to know what the incidents are. 872 01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:35,760 If he says, for example, I take the Las Vegas alleged with Las 873 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:41,239 Vegas crash from nineteen sixty two, which I think everybody knows. I was 874 01:17:41,279 --> 01:17:45,039 sort of the authority that brought that into the public arena. I am now 875 01:17:45,079 --> 01:17:51,880 convinced that that was a very bright meteor and it's separated from the Utah aspect 876 01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:56,439 of it. There's two separate things going on there. But if you mentioned 877 01:17:56,439 --> 01:18:00,199 something like that, That to me would damage his credibility because I know things 878 01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:08,399 about that that aren't general knowledge. I think that to understand what he's talking 879 01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:13,119 about, we've got to know what the sources are. We've got to know 880 01:18:13,159 --> 01:18:16,000 who the names of the names of the people who he's talking to, how 881 01:18:16,039 --> 01:18:20,560 he came in contact with that information. And I know, Don you're going 882 01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,600 to be aware of this as well as I am. You look at the 883 01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:27,880 shadow box that with the picture of him, He's got his medals on it. 884 01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:33,600 The highest medal he's got is a Meritorious Service medal. That doesn't suggest 885 01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:40,199 to me any comment. Well, I wasn't going to say that, but 886 01:18:40,319 --> 01:18:45,600 yeah, but I was thinking of the higher level of those kind of service 887 01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:47,560 medals that you would get if you were really on the interior, and once 888 01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:53,159 you've completed the assignment, then they give you the Distinguished Service medal, they 889 01:18:53,159 --> 01:18:58,399 give you one of the higher meritorious service medal. Clearly he has no combat 890 01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:06,520 awards, and that, I mean, that wasn't that important to me. 891 01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:14,279 I just noticed that he didn't have some of the higher level service medals that 892 01:19:14,319 --> 01:19:17,520 you would expect him to have. He was that inside of what was going 893 01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:21,479 on So there are little things like that that bother me about his testimony in 894 01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:29,319 his story that could be turned around by a couple of simple sentences providing us 895 01:19:29,319 --> 01:19:31,199 with additional information we could check out and we say, okay, yeah, 896 01:19:31,239 --> 01:19:36,880 this guy is credible. Right now, I really don't know. Like I 897 01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:43,239 said, I'm bothered by this repeated mentoring of this nineteen thirty three thing in 898 01:19:43,279 --> 01:19:46,680 Italy which makes no absolutely no sense. Nevin, there is one thing. 899 01:19:47,079 --> 01:19:51,439 There is one thing, one thing, rush, one thing, one thing. 900 01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:59,800 After he went public, there was within the Pentagon a concerted effort to 901 01:20:00,079 --> 01:20:05,760 amge him. Somebody released his medical records and showed that, in fact, 902 01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:15,199 he may be on the the spectrum as far as optism. Okay, Uh. 903 01:20:15,159 --> 01:20:19,479 They tried to embarrass him, They tried to basically shut him down. 904 01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:24,039 And the guy, to his credit, came out and said, yeah, 905 01:20:24,039 --> 01:20:27,239 well this is what happened, and this is how it went on, and 906 01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:33,159 yeah, at one point I did seek some psychiatric counseling. But you know 907 01:20:35,159 --> 01:20:42,840 who today couldn't benefit from some of that. So well, but the point, 908 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,680 but the real point is, you know, somebody tried to embarrass him, 909 01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:47,479 but it may have been just to divert the conversation from what he was 910 01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:50,960 talking about because it was going in a direction they didn't want it to go. 911 01:20:51,079 --> 01:20:55,840 But I don't know what sort of inside knowledge he might have, if 912 01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,159 he has any inside knowledge, and none of that has been demonstrated. When 913 01:20:59,159 --> 01:21:01,319 you get to this pacifis, he always falls back onto that, well, 914 01:21:01,319 --> 01:21:05,039 I can't talk about this, We'll talk about that in the classified session. 915 01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:10,720 That doesn't help us understand what's going on, and that tells us that we're 916 01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:15,439 not moving toward transparency or disclosure, because every time we get up to that 917 01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:17,880 point, it's I can't talk about that. Now I'll have to We'll have 918 01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:21,319 to do it in the classified session, and none of that information ever comes 919 01:21:21,319 --> 01:21:27,359 out. We have the same thing with Kirkpatrick, with him running arrow talking 920 01:21:27,359 --> 01:21:29,760 about we're going to do this, we're going to do that, but we 921 01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,199 don't get any of the information. We do not understand what's going on. 922 01:21:32,319 --> 01:21:35,239 We hear hints about it, but we don't get the truth, and we 923 01:21:35,279 --> 01:21:42,760 can't evaluate what is really happening without that information. So uh, with Grush, 924 01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,800 I just don't know about that. I look at some of the things 925 01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:49,760 that worry me about his military background and that sort of thing. I think 926 01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:56,640 if people looked into my military background, they would probably be disturbed about it 927 01:21:56,680 --> 01:22:01,079 too. But I just I just don't know. I just don't know because 928 01:22:01,119 --> 01:22:06,520 we don't have sufficient information to draw a good conclusion on the viability of that 929 01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:11,680 information and the source of the information. That's the other credible thing that we 930 01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:14,439 do not know. Where did he get this information? Well, I talked 931 01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:16,439 to these people who saw this, that and the other thing. I've talked 932 01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:21,079 to people who claim to be on the inside. We're telling me all these 933 01:22:21,079 --> 01:22:25,439 things. You can't talk about this, but here's where we are. And 934 01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:30,359 without being able to verify that information or know who he's talking to, we 935 01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:36,640 really cannot properly evaluate that information and where he was going. When I heard 936 01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:43,199 about the Italian thing, the very first thing I thought of was someone is 937 01:22:43,239 --> 01:22:47,279 feeding him disinformation. But then I started thinking about it. At what end 938 01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:50,960 would someone do that? I mean, what would be the whole purpose of 939 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:58,279 it? And why would he? I think, what's happened, and he's 940 01:22:58,319 --> 01:23:01,880 come in to contact people, people who really believed the Italian thing, And 941 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,880 you look at some of the information out there on the internet about it, 942 01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:12,560 you can see some people are not are unaware of how it had been debunked 943 01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:15,960 long ago, so they're still clinging to the to that that story. And 944 01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:19,680 I think he got it from somebody that he trusted, who may have may 945 01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:25,800 have had a high level position who had come across it and believe the story. 946 01:23:26,119 --> 01:23:28,520 But that doesn't make it true. And we don't know who that guy 947 01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:30,800 is, and we don't know how he got the information. That's the problem. 948 01:23:31,119 --> 01:23:38,640 We don't know what the his source is. Now there's been speculation and 949 01:23:39,039 --> 01:23:45,359 I don't know if I should even say this or not, but supposedly one 950 01:23:45,399 --> 01:23:47,560 of the people is Eric Davis. Now I don't know if that's one of 951 01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:53,319 the people he's talked to. Then I don't know what that happened. Boy 952 01:23:53,399 --> 01:24:00,640 got splain and to do Lucy Well. And that's the thing I have heard, 953 01:24:01,079 --> 01:24:04,159 and again I do I have not been able to verify it. I 954 01:24:04,239 --> 01:24:09,920 heard that he was out at Skinwalker Ranch and that would put him into contact 955 01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:18,399 with certain people whose credibility I find less than than exciting. But what another 956 01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:28,359 another thing I've heard out there too? Yeahs outfit but and then that's well 957 01:24:28,399 --> 01:24:32,600 known. But oh okay, but but that would put him into contact with 958 01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:39,039 certain people whose credibility I find wanting. And if they're telling him stuff that 959 01:24:39,079 --> 01:24:43,079 they believe and he believes they're telling him the truth, then we're off. 960 01:24:43,399 --> 01:24:48,680 We're off on a snipe hunt. There's nothing there to be to be found, 961 01:24:49,279 --> 01:24:53,840 but we just but we don't know that, you know, Jerry Clark. 962 01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,159 I mentioned this to Jerry Clark, and he said, we'll be very 963 01:24:56,199 --> 01:24:59,359 careful with that information, you know, because is it verified? And I 964 01:24:59,359 --> 01:25:01,479 said, no, it's not verified. We don't know. But if he 965 01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:05,880 was at Skinwalker Ranch, we could That allows us to speculate about who he 966 01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:12,399 may have come in contact with and the credibility of that information he was there. 967 01:25:14,079 --> 01:25:18,319 Then we're at the point where some of those people who were involved with 968 01:25:18,359 --> 01:25:25,199 that I find less than credible, and that makes his information less than credible. 969 01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:29,159 And he's probably he's probably telling the truth as he believes it, but 970 01:25:29,239 --> 01:25:33,960 that doesn't make it part of our reality, our shared reality. I keep 971 01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:39,560 thinking of that the MythBusters says, I reject your reality and substitute my own. 972 01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:45,239 But he uh, I just I just don't know. I'm I'm very 973 01:25:45,359 --> 01:25:49,079 obviously very ambivalent about that, and I don't want I don't want to do 974 01:25:49,119 --> 01:25:59,119 anything to say anything about him, that is unfair. But talking about you're 975 01:25:59,159 --> 01:26:03,640 talking about his statements, Kevin, and and that's not being unfair because he 976 01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:06,760 has said, well, I talked to this guy and this is what this 977 01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:11,359 guy said, and I saw this paper, but I don't have the paper. 978 01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:15,399 And I saw this picture, but I don't have the picture. And 979 01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,239 this may all be true. He may have actually saw this and talked to 980 01:26:18,279 --> 01:26:23,159 him. But you know, as far as intelligence goes Martin, you know 981 01:26:23,279 --> 01:26:27,880 this, and don you surely know this, that he can he can be 982 01:26:28,039 --> 01:26:30,359 just the messenger of an agenda that they want to play. Hey, I'm 983 01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:34,039 going to tell you this, you feed it to the public. I'm I'm 984 01:26:34,159 --> 01:26:38,720 I'm over here in left field that I'm not gonna get involved, but I'll 985 01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:45,119 tell you all these great little things. And knowing his personality because they did, 986 01:26:45,199 --> 01:26:50,920 they didn't they briefed them. They briefed them, So knowing his personality 987 01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:55,560 maybe the way he is, they know exactly what was going to happen or 988 01:26:55,600 --> 01:27:00,600 told him to do this. I'm not saying that the information that he giving 989 01:27:00,279 --> 01:27:06,000 is not what he was told. It just may be not true information by 990 01:27:06,079 --> 01:27:11,359 somebody that's talking to him, like you alluded, Kevin, it could be 991 01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:15,640 just correct that they're feeding us. Well, that's that's that's what I was 992 01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:19,359 saying. And we because we don't know the sources, we're stuck with trying 993 01:27:19,359 --> 01:27:24,119 to figure out whether the information is credible or not. We don't know who 994 01:27:24,159 --> 01:27:28,720 told him that. And I have no doubt he believes what he's talking about, 995 01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:33,439 but you know I don't. I'm in the same boat he is. 996 01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:38,279 I've talked to people, I've seen things, I know things, but I 997 01:27:38,319 --> 01:27:42,560 can't prove any of it. So what good does it do me without the 998 01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,359 out the evidence? I saw this document, Well, great, what did 999 01:27:45,359 --> 01:27:49,119 the where's the document? I had an argument with a guy quite a long 1000 01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:55,359 while ago, but that said, he operated a Air Force communications center and 1001 01:27:55,399 --> 01:28:00,720 he saw documents coming through that center, classified documents about a crash in Sweden 1002 01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:04,840 of a UFO back in the nineteen fifties. And I said, yeah, 1003 01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:11,439 I've seen them too, and they're part of the Project blue Book files and 1004 01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:17,479 it's that hoax about the Spitzbergen crash. And yet the guy had seen these 1005 01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:20,640 documents and didn't know the follow up. I guess that was the deal. 1006 01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:25,439 He'd seen the document, the original documents that alluded to it and suggested it 1007 01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:29,199 was something very mysterious, and when we get beyond that, we realized, 1008 01:28:29,279 --> 01:28:33,760 well that that was a hoax that had nothing to do with alien visitation. 1009 01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:39,079 In the original story, I think they were talking about the cyrillic alphabet being 1010 01:28:39,119 --> 01:28:43,119 on the control panels of the UFO that they'd found, the saucer they had 1011 01:28:43,159 --> 01:28:46,840 found. But he had seen these documents and he was convinced because they had 1012 01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:50,640 come through the communications center, that they was talking about an Anien spacecraft. 1013 01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:55,479 And that's where we are with Grush. We don't know what he's seen, 1014 01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,760 we don't know who's told him what, and we cannot verify it. We 1015 01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:04,119 cannot take it beyond that without any additional information, and I'm very weary, 1016 01:29:05,279 --> 01:29:12,479 weary, I'm very wary of that. Now we're supposed to get a report 1017 01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:17,039 sometime in twenty twenty four that's going to reach out to all these programs that 1018 01:29:17,159 --> 01:29:25,199 may or may not house some type of you know, crash retrieval. I 1019 01:29:25,199 --> 01:29:30,600 guess the question I have and like to hear everyone's opinion, do you actually 1020 01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:32,560 think I mean, when he first came out with that, I'm like, 1021 01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:36,720 I went WHOA. That's really quite a statement to me. But maybe it's 1022 01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:42,520 not a crazy statement. I mean, maybe there is crashed vehicles that we 1023 01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:47,680 do have. You know, there's something I heard recently that you know that 1024 01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:53,319 sounds really interesting, But again I don't know if it's true, so I'm 1025 01:29:53,319 --> 01:29:57,560 not going to say it on the air. But I guess the question is, 1026 01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:03,239 do you believe that the United States has recovered craft? I don't know 1027 01:30:03,279 --> 01:30:08,319 who wants to take that. Well I will because I'm the big Rodswell advocate, 1028 01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:19,880 and I think that they had recovered alien materials at Roswell. We have 1029 01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:24,560 and I say, Tom Kerry, Don Schmid and I spent a great deal 1030 01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:30,880 of time running down leads of the possibility of secret projects, and when they 1031 01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:33,920 investigated in the mid nineteen nineties, Air Force investigated the mid nineteen nineties, 1032 01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:41,119 had there been a secret project that would cover that event up, I mean 1033 01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:44,560 prove the event was something terrestrial, they would have trotted it out. Then 1034 01:30:45,279 --> 01:30:48,039 is what would be classified in nineteen ninety five that they were doing in nineteen 1035 01:30:48,119 --> 01:30:54,119 forty seven, That technology, whatever it was, would be far out of 1036 01:30:54,199 --> 01:30:57,520 date. So I leaned toward the extra trust because we don't have a good 1037 01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:03,000 explanation. So yeah, I think the government does have crash retrieval materials. 1038 01:31:03,399 --> 01:31:08,000 I don't think there's twelve of them. And if there was twelve of them, 1039 01:31:08,079 --> 01:31:14,199 that would imply that we engaged in hostile combat with them and knock them 1040 01:31:14,199 --> 01:31:16,760 out of the sky, because I cannot believe that you're an alien race and 1041 01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:24,279 you've discovered the secret to flying through interstellar space, which would be a technological 1042 01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:30,000 it would be next to magic, and then you arrive on Earth and the 1043 01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:35,039 first thing you do is you crash. The numbers just don't make sense to 1044 01:31:35,079 --> 01:31:41,640 me. But the Roswell case, because of the work that I've done, 1045 01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:44,520 the work that donche Mids done, the work that Tom carry has done, 1046 01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:47,960 and the work that others have done on that case, suggests that there is 1047 01:31:48,039 --> 01:31:53,960 no good trustrial explanation for it to throw that to me. Says there's one, 1048 01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:59,399 and Crush alluded to Roswell, but he also alluded to this Italian thing. 1049 01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:02,479 So I don't know what other what the other ten would be. And 1050 01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:06,680 I think that's important information too, to know which which ten events is he 1051 01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:11,079 talking about? Are there ones that we know about, or is it something 1052 01:32:11,159 --> 01:32:14,520 else? I did a book called Crash when UFOs fall from the sky, 1053 01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:17,399 and I think there's one hundred and eighteen crash is mentioned in that book. 1054 01:32:18,039 --> 01:32:23,960 Very few of them, I would say, our actual alien spacecraft. It 1055 01:32:24,079 --> 01:32:30,439 things have been reported, it's single witness stuff, it's it's misinterpreted interpretation of 1056 01:32:30,159 --> 01:32:35,439 rocket research, and all kinds of other things in these crash stories, including 1057 01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:43,399 hoaxes. But I need to know what those ten cases, other ten cases 1058 01:32:43,399 --> 01:32:47,680 are that he alluded to, and we don't know that information. John, 1059 01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:54,239 you have mentioned before on this show that you think that that would be the 1060 01:32:54,279 --> 01:32:59,840 answer that they were shot down, right, Yeah, I uh, I've 1061 01:33:00,079 --> 01:33:10,079 for years, Okay, I followed reports of purported hostilities between UFOs. All 1062 01:33:10,159 --> 01:33:15,079 right, I personally think now, you know, I in my paper, 1063 01:33:15,359 --> 01:33:25,119 I used Grush's figure of twelve possible recoveries. Now, if you get right 1064 01:33:25,159 --> 01:33:30,520 down to it, hey, it doesn't matter if it's eight or fourteen or 1065 01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:39,199 six. Okay, I think I feel confident that there have been more than 1066 01:33:39,359 --> 01:33:46,159 two. But the bottom line is Kevin made a perfectly valid point. If 1067 01:33:46,359 --> 01:33:53,479 any of these are interstellar and they are coming from another star system to this 1068 01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:58,880 system, and once they get here they crash, well even in my paper 1069 01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:04,119 I said that never made any sense to me. But what would make sense 1070 01:34:04,279 --> 01:34:12,359 because I saw it with my own eyes in Southeast Asia a combat where aircraft 1071 01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:17,199 in that case, aircraft were knocked out of the sky. So these things, 1072 01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:21,760 if in fact there were crashes, and as far as that goes, 1073 01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:30,760 that could even include the Roswell event. All right, somebody knocked that down. 1074 01:34:31,399 --> 01:34:38,960 So I can remember twenty odd years ago there was a theory being pushed 1075 01:34:39,039 --> 01:34:45,680 around that it might have been an experimental radar down at Roswell that caused navigational 1076 01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:50,760 problems in this object and it crashed. Well, that never made sense to 1077 01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:58,960 me either. But a laser, a heat beam, a missile, that 1078 01:34:59,119 --> 01:35:03,439 would make money much more sense. So for whatever it's worth. You know, 1079 01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:08,319 one of the things this is a question for Kevin again, Kevin, 1080 01:35:10,399 --> 01:35:15,399 because you investigated Roswell. So one of the things I think is really curious 1081 01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:17,880 is you know they talk about this metal that they found. They can pick 1082 01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:23,159 it up, they can bend it and it pops back into the original position. 1083 01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:28,279 Then Marcelle says he can hit it with a hammer and it won't do 1084 01:35:28,319 --> 01:35:33,640 anything. Well, there was pieces everywhere, so it kind of like Okay, 1085 01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:38,319 this is you know, a type of metal, whatever it is, 1086 01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:44,359 that is so incredible and get do so much. Yet they talk about pieces 1087 01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,319 just in shreds everywhere. It almost doesn't even make any sense with the type 1088 01:35:47,319 --> 01:35:53,560 of metal that that can't be damaged with an explosion. Martin, Well, 1089 01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:56,439 no, I was gonna have to be I was going to say it. 1090 01:35:57,560 --> 01:36:00,720 The craft wasn't made up of just one type of thing. How many different 1091 01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:09,079 types of surfaces and metals and things are in your car. So you might 1092 01:36:09,119 --> 01:36:12,920 have a piece of metal that's very strong and you hit it with the sledgehammer 1093 01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:15,960 and there's no damage to it, and you have another piece of metal that 1094 01:36:16,119 --> 01:36:19,720 is thin and you can crumple it up. I mean, it's just various 1095 01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:27,119 components making up the total craft. So I was never bothered by the discussions 1096 01:36:27,159 --> 01:36:34,239 of various kinds of metal. Bill Brasel talked about the metal that was light 1097 01:36:34,279 --> 01:36:38,479 as balsa wood had felt like balsa wood. He said, he got out 1098 01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:42,680 his pocket knife, which he used to cut barb wire on and he wanted 1099 01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:45,319 to get a scraping on it see if there was any stratification. He couldn't 1100 01:36:45,359 --> 01:36:49,239 get a shaving on it. So here's this metal that is incredibly light weight 1101 01:36:49,479 --> 01:37:00,199 and incredibly strong. You talked about the what we call the metal with the 1102 01:37:00,239 --> 01:37:03,239 molecules with a memory. We talked about that. So we looked at we 1103 01:37:03,319 --> 01:37:05,960 looked at all of that sort of thing. And he also talked about, 1104 01:37:06,039 --> 01:37:11,119 ah, what he called monophilip fishing line that you shine a light in one 1105 01:37:11,199 --> 01:37:14,079 end and it comes out the other. We was talking about fiber optics obviously, 1106 01:37:14,399 --> 01:37:16,680 so he had a variety of different kinds of things found. So that 1107 01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:20,680 the fact that one is incredibly strong and one you could fold up and it 1108 01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:25,520 would unfold itself doesn't mean that it was not a component. There were different 1109 01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:32,399 components in the craft. Yeah, I just want to answering Martin's question, 1110 01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:36,199 and I know he's dropped off. Hopefully I'll come back in. But as 1111 01:37:36,199 --> 01:37:42,359 far as crash retrievals go, I think we have crash retrievals. I think 1112 01:37:42,439 --> 01:37:46,119 we've we've had probably more than one. I don't know about twelve. That's 1113 01:37:46,119 --> 01:37:49,760 a big figure, Kevin, you know what I mean, to have twelve 1114 01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:54,760 of them and not have more of the public knowing. But I do agree 1115 01:37:54,880 --> 01:38:00,079 that I think we we've been working on direct energy weapons, exotic weapons. 1116 01:38:00,119 --> 01:38:03,760 If you talk to people like Ken Jordan, who was the head of the 1117 01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:10,119 Future Army's weapons lab, they've been playing with plasma for years. I know 1118 01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:16,680 in the Hudson Valley at Tuxedo Park, Alfred Loomis, who was a billionaire 1119 01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:20,520 and a brilliant physicist, had a secret lab there that they were working on 1120 01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:26,680 direct energy weapons and all kinds of other different things at that park years and 1121 01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:31,920 years and years ago. So is the possibility we had something something to shoot 1122 01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:38,640 these things down? Yeah? Do I think we shot down twelve or twelve 1123 01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:42,600 crash because I'm in The thing is, if you have the ability to come 1124 01:38:42,720 --> 01:38:46,640 late years here at the speed of which they can do and travel through that 1125 01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:55,399 the probability of them crashing here is pretty remote. I mean, it just 1126 01:38:55,439 --> 01:38:59,640 doesn't make sense for that. Well, I've always said on that you know 1127 01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:00,840 what made him crash? And I said, well, maybe somebody pushed the 1128 01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:05,680 wrong button, you know, I mean the beings in there may not be 1129 01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:10,680 infallible. But the other thing, if there was twelve that crashed here and 1130 01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:17,720 we recovered them, what about South America or Africa, or Asia or Europe, 1131 01:39:18,039 --> 01:39:21,319 why aren't there similar events there? Yeah, we talk about that, 1132 01:39:21,359 --> 01:39:28,000 but we don't have the same kind of evidence for something happening in those locations 1133 01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,840 that we do for the Roswell case. For example, reports have come out 1134 01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:36,479 of Russia. Yes, yeah, but I talked back in the very very 1135 01:39:36,560 --> 01:39:44,720 early nineties after the collapse of the Soviet Union, when doctor Marina Popovich came 1136 01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:51,159 over and I talked to her extensively through an interpreter. Her English was not 1137 01:39:51,359 --> 01:39:58,920 good at all. I speak no Russian. But they had, according to 1138 01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:03,880 her, at any rate, they had incidents where these things went down there 1139 01:40:04,079 --> 01:40:09,880 now went down. Why I don't know, but they did. They did 1140 01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:14,800 suffer crashes. Well, we think about shag Harbor two up in Canada. 1141 01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:18,520 But my point simply is this, if they were coming down raining from the 1142 01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:24,680 sky, clearly something would have happened in a location where they couldn't cover it 1143 01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:29,560 up. You know, Ronald was unique because of the location of the base, 1144 01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:35,159 the access to the military, or the military could control access to the 1145 01:40:35,239 --> 01:40:41,000 media in the local community of that sort of thing, so it didn't get 1146 01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:45,560 out. But what if it had crashed in near New York City or some 1147 01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:50,119 other hub where the military couldn't control the information getting out. We'd have a 1148 01:40:50,119 --> 01:40:56,119 whole different conversation. And the point simply is, the more crashes you have, 1149 01:40:56,279 --> 01:41:00,960 the more likely something is going to happen in a location where they couldn't 1150 01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,920 possibly cover it up. There would be too many people involved, too many 1151 01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:08,560 people would have seen something and that sort of thing. And that's really my 1152 01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:12,840 point. It just it just doesn't make good logical sense to me. You've 1153 01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:15,520 got to You've got it's got to be when you have the crash, it's 1154 01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:20,560 got to be in an isolated location where the government or the military or the 1155 01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:25,840 law enforcement can control the information until they can get it cleaned up. And 1156 01:41:26,239 --> 01:41:30,000 the more crashes you have, the more likely they are going to be unable 1157 01:41:30,039 --> 01:41:34,520 to do that. But Kevin, if we had these I mean, if 1158 01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:39,960 we had so many crashes, as they say, when we have so many 1159 01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:44,079 whistlebl I mean, let's face it, if by crashers, it's not going 1160 01:41:44,119 --> 01:41:45,920 to take five or six people to get this thing. You're going to need, 1161 01:41:46,319 --> 01:41:50,399 you know, forty fifty one hundred you know, personnel to get this 1162 01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:56,159 craft. Out of those one hundred personnel. If you have that many crash 1163 01:41:56,680 --> 01:42:01,159 there'd be a lot more people talking about crashes. Yeah, But I mean, 1164 01:42:01,359 --> 01:42:04,560 come on, with the Roswell case, we found an awful lot of 1165 01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:09,279 people who were in Roswell. We were very fortunate that Walter HoTT, the 1166 01:42:09,359 --> 01:42:13,800 public affairs officer, had created a yearbook in the summer of nineteen forty seven, 1167 01:42:14,319 --> 01:42:17,039 so we had basically a list of virtually everyone who is on the base, 1168 01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:20,880 and we could we could target them, and we could we could find 1169 01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:28,119 people who would be in specific positions to tell us information and we would get 1170 01:42:28,159 --> 01:42:31,159 some stories. A guy named Robert Smith talked about how he had been building 1171 01:42:31,199 --> 01:42:34,800 crates and they were loading crates on the on the aircraft to fly this stuff 1172 01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:39,399 out, but the crates seemed like they were empty because they the material was 1173 01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:43,039 so light, late weight. And he talked about a sergeant who had stolen 1174 01:42:43,079 --> 01:42:45,840 one of the pieces of memory metal that we talked about and showed it, 1175 01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:50,039 showed it around. But of course we don't know who that sergeant was, 1176 01:42:50,079 --> 01:42:54,279 and we could never get to get our hands on the metal. But the 1177 01:42:54,319 --> 01:42:58,720 real point is you're absolutely right if we the more times we have to deal 1178 01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:02,600 with that, the less likely they're going to be able to keep it under 1179 01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:06,560 wraps because too many people are going to know. And so that's why I 1180 01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:14,359 think there's a limited number of crashes. And on the Soviet Union, don 1181 01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:17,640 if they'd had crashes, I can understand them keeping you under wraps because their 1182 01:43:17,720 --> 01:43:21,800 society was certainly a lot different than ours. But if you've got crashes in 1183 01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:25,319 the Soviet Union and the United States, and you're going to have them in 1184 01:43:25,319 --> 01:43:27,640 South America, you're going to have them in Africa, you're going to have 1185 01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:30,439 them in Europe, You're going to have them all over the world. And 1186 01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:34,520 in that case, something is, something more tangible, is going to leak 1187 01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:40,279 than is leaked so far. You know, they said, well they couldn't 1188 01:43:40,359 --> 01:43:43,279 keep a secret that long. Well they kept they didn't really keep the secret 1189 01:43:43,319 --> 01:43:47,760 Roswell, but they managed to keep enough of it buried that we still argue 1190 01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:50,840 about the reality of it. But he agree something fill at Roswell. The 1191 01:43:50,920 --> 01:43:57,439 question is what was it? So we've got to look at this totality of 1192 01:43:57,479 --> 01:44:01,039 the number of crashes, and we need information about where they happened and who 1193 01:44:01,119 --> 01:44:04,840 was involved in it so we can validate the information, and we just have 1194 01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:09,239 not been able to get that. I think that the idea of twelve of 1195 01:44:09,239 --> 01:44:15,640 them is way too high, given the what that would suggest about the rest 1196 01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:24,880 of the world, Kevin. Since we're on Roswell right now, why would 1197 01:44:25,319 --> 01:44:30,239 the Army Air Force in the first place announce that it had captured a flying 1198 01:44:30,319 --> 01:44:33,479 disc? I mean, why would they just not say nothing? I know 1199 01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:38,119 that's not good English, but you get my point. I don't know what 1200 01:44:38,119 --> 01:44:43,760 you're talking about, Martin. That's a question that's been pondered. One of 1201 01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:49,279 the things that we were told is that they did it on purpose because they 1202 01:44:49,319 --> 01:44:54,039 had the lower headquarters, the five to ninth bomb Group in Roswell saying we've 1203 01:44:54,079 --> 01:44:58,600 got a flying saucer, and then they divert attention to Fort Worth, where 1204 01:44:58,439 --> 01:45:00,520 the higher headquarters, the ate their force is and they say, well, 1205 01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:04,680 no, no, it's just it's just a weather blown and so you're kind 1206 01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:09,119 of throwing the guys in Roswell under the bus, but you're doing it to 1207 01:45:09,239 --> 01:45:13,800 hide the ultimate secret. That's something really important was recovered there. I don't 1208 01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:15,479 know if that's that they were I don't know if they were clever enough to 1209 01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:19,920 figure that out at the time or not, or or Colonel Blanchard, who 1210 01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:27,680 was the base commander. Because of the circumstances that we had been involved with 1211 01:45:27,800 --> 01:45:33,279 the big UFO the Flying Saucer craze for about two weeks when Roswell happened and 1212 01:45:33,319 --> 01:45:36,279 he says, well, we've now got something that'll prove it. And then 1213 01:45:36,359 --> 01:45:41,279 they realized it was something much more extraordinary than they expected and they had to 1214 01:45:42,039 --> 01:45:44,399 they had to cover it up. But he was trying to well, we've 1215 01:45:44,399 --> 01:45:46,039 got we've got a flying sauce. You don't need to worry about them anymore. 1216 01:45:46,039 --> 01:45:48,319 And then it was oh my god, we can't tell them about this. 1217 01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:55,359 So I really don't know why Blanchard would have issued the press release. 1218 01:45:55,399 --> 01:45:59,720 And contrary to what people have said, the press release had to come from 1219 01:45:59,760 --> 01:46:04,600 the from the office of the commanding Officer. I mean, Walter HoTT couldn't 1220 01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:09,800 have issued the press release on his own authority, or Jesse Marcell couldn't have 1221 01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:14,760 he issued the press release on his own authority. But of course I'll pardon 1222 01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:19,640 me. I just say go ahead. Yeah. It's just one of those 1223 01:46:20,199 --> 01:46:24,279 sort of enigmas that we don't have a good answer for. All we can 1224 01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:27,479 say is, yeah, they did make the announcement, but within three hours 1225 01:46:27,479 --> 01:46:31,119 they'd killed the story. If you take a lead debris scattered everywhere in the 1226 01:46:31,159 --> 01:46:35,800 debris field. And do you think they thought it might be a flying saucer 1227 01:46:36,239 --> 01:46:40,840 because not because of its shape, because obviously it was scattered all over the 1228 01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:44,560 place, but because of the odd metal. Is that why did they think 1229 01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:47,800 they had a flying saucer? Were? There were three sites. There was 1230 01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:51,760 the debris field, which one we always were talking about. There was another 1231 01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:56,159 site where some stuff came down, and then there was the impact site where 1232 01:46:56,159 --> 01:47:02,359 they found the main main craft of the main the main body of information where 1233 01:47:02,399 --> 01:47:05,319 the bodies were located. And that was much closer to Roswell. And I 1234 01:47:05,359 --> 01:47:11,159 think that when Brazil came in, he had the medal with him when he 1235 01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:15,359 went to the Sheriff's office, and we've verified that through the sheriff's daughter, 1236 01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:20,199 Phillis Maguire told us that she had been in the office when it came in. 1237 01:47:20,279 --> 01:47:25,239 The sheriff in nineteen forty seven. The sheriff's family lived above the jail 1238 01:47:26,159 --> 01:47:28,880 and so the family was in and out of the jail all the time. 1239 01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:31,319 In fact, his wife wrote an article called three or four Years in the 1240 01:47:31,359 --> 01:47:35,479 County Jail, which was about their experiences as him being the sheriff. keV 1241 01:47:36,680 --> 01:47:42,760 Kevin I got a quick question dealing with this years ago, and it was 1242 01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:48,560 before he self imploded in Las Vegas in eighty nine. But Bill Moore said, 1243 01:47:48,640 --> 01:47:54,920 and of course Bill Moore wrote the first book on the Roswell event, 1244 01:47:56,079 --> 01:48:02,439 said that there was a mysterious flu virus that hit the area after this thing 1245 01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:05,159 happened. Do you know anything about that? Is that true? Or is 1246 01:48:05,239 --> 01:48:11,479 that? Pid? Me, Martin, do you know anything about that? 1247 01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:15,000 There? No, I said it interesting. I never heard of it. 1248 01:48:15,079 --> 01:48:18,000 Okay, okay, No, I hadn't heard anything like that. And we 1249 01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:20,880 we talked an awful lot of people in the area and they never talked about 1250 01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:25,560 anything like that. My point was Phi. My point with Phillis Maguire was 1251 01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:30,159 she was in the office. So when Braso came into the office, he 1252 01:48:30,239 --> 01:48:33,159 had some of the debris with him, and if it had been a weather 1253 01:48:33,199 --> 01:48:38,399 balloon, Marcel or somebody at the base would have identified it as such. 1254 01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:42,279 But they thought enough of it that they sent that material on to Washington, 1255 01:48:42,319 --> 01:48:45,279 d c. And that was on Sunday night before Marcel and Cavot went out 1256 01:48:45,319 --> 01:48:48,279 to the Debree field to pick up the debris. So, yeah, the 1257 01:48:48,279 --> 01:48:54,640 the the mysterious metals, uh, it was it was strange enough that they 1258 01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:59,600 thought that they had a special flight into Washington, d C. With that 1259 01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:03,640 stuff. So it's, you know, it's kind of those things we talk 1260 01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:08,680 about crashes prior to nineteen forty seven, before Roswell, and I'm thinking if 1261 01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:12,720 that had happened, and the Italian thing fits in here, in Cape Girardo 1262 01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:14,960 in nineteen forty one, by the way, fits in there as well. 1263 01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:19,079 If that had happened, the response by the military would have been different because 1264 01:49:19,119 --> 01:49:23,640 they would have known about these things earlier, and they were kind of caught 1265 01:49:23,680 --> 01:49:28,279 off guard by what happened by the whole UFO thing starting in June of nineteen 1266 01:49:28,319 --> 01:49:31,840 forty seven and the whole Roswell thing. So that suggests to me that there 1267 01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:40,680 was not something that preceded Roswell based on that, but the metallic debris that 1268 01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:45,119 they found on the field, and Marcel Jesse Marcel both senior and junior, 1269 01:49:45,119 --> 01:49:47,439 and other people described it. Bill Brasel described it to us as well, 1270 01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:51,520 that it clearly was nothing of terrestrial manufacturer. They might not have known that 1271 01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:55,720 right at the time, but they knew it was something strange enough. I'm 1272 01:49:55,760 --> 01:50:01,439 surprised that Brasel took it to Roswell as opposed to Alamagordo because his family had 1273 01:50:01,479 --> 01:50:05,760 been living in Tularosa during the school year for the kids could go to school. 1274 01:50:06,119 --> 01:50:11,600 And Tularosa is right near Alamagordo, which was the Alamagordo Army Airfield. 1275 01:50:11,600 --> 01:50:15,439 So I'm not sure why Brazl took it into Rosalo. That's where he took 1276 01:50:15,479 --> 01:50:17,760 it, and the sheriff didn't know what it was. Marcelle came out and 1277 01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:20,960 looked at it, didn't know what it was, and they arranged for some 1278 01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:26,520 of the materials to be shipped to Fort Worth and then on to higher headquarters 1279 01:50:26,840 --> 01:50:30,479 on the Sunday afternoon. Gentlemen, we are out of time. Thank you 1280 01:50:30,520 --> 01:50:33,880 all so much, Thank you all for listening, and thank you Kevin for 1281 01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:38,880 filling in. Thanks Dawn, Thanks Chris, and we'll be back next week 1282 01:50:39,279 --> 01:50:42,680 eight pm to ten pm Eastern Time on Thursday. Thanks again,