And welcome back people to calling all beings. I'm your host, DJ san
Marco here on a Thursday night with my vacationing co host is back the man,
you know, the man that you're going to see his pretty face for
the first time. Part of people put your hands together for Nathan A wave
soul. What's up everybody? Man? It is good to have you back.
Nathan. My sounding board was gone, so I would make a sound,
but it wouldn't come back. It's like yelling into a cave and there's
no echo. It's terrible. We'll get there. But you know what I
want to say is one of the cool things about UFO Twitter is that you
meet and my friend it's about to join us here in a second, our
special guest. You meet these interesting people and you have conversations. And I
don't know that there are other sections of Twitter that are necessarily like that.
And so I met Lampy talking about Angulie because she posts did a whole bunch
of uh basically uh. I think it was a transcript of something. Get
her to remind me because now I forgot. But we ended up having a
great conversation, and so I'd said, you know what, I'd really like
to have you on tonight and talk so party people put your hands together for
LAMPI one nine four seven. Hello. Yeah. The threat I made was
basically just like a compilation of all the links that you'd need to get caught
up on the drama, because by then there was a lot of it and
there has only been more since. But new people are coming in the uf
to Twitter every day, and even people who are regulars like aren't on constantly,
so things move fast and people really need a way to catch up on
everything. Absolutely, And are there cooler glasses on UFO Twitter than what you're
wearing right now? I don't think there is. I mean, I'm putting
out a challenge. If anyone thinks they can top you with us, let's
go until then, I'm declaring myself a champion. I love it. Natasha
Domingoz, check it out. Next time you're on the show. You're gonna
have to up your game, girlfriend, all right? Anyway, so you
know, there are a lot of interesting people today. I actually heard somebody
who was asking asking Angelie if she would go on the Stevens Somebody Show and
answer hardball questions, and from reading his tweet, he sounded like a breathless,
petulant child. And it's like, Oh, you think if she goes
on Steven Casessa's show, The Hardball Tough Guy, do you think she's gonna
answer something different than what she answered? What's he gonna ask her that she's
gonna say differently what he's gonna say. I don't believe. I don't believe
you. You're a liar, Like, what is he gonna say? That's
right? So talk to me. Yeah, I don't know. I know
that a lot of people are getting like there's always been skepticism of Angelie,
but I feel like it's just only been ramping up since about a week after
the press conference because people are wanting to know when she's going out to the
desert and who the team is going to be. And so I understand the
frustration, but you're right, people can be a little bit mean about it.
Like I gave a very respectful response and that guy like blocked me or
something, and it's like I just said, look, you know you're going
to know, and she'll she'll broadcast it probably after the fact. You're not
going to know that she's going. Once she's going, she's going to tell
the appropriate people she's going to go, and then when she comes back,
she'll report her findings. What will be the point of them telling people ahead
of time so that you can have people out on the road with binoculars and
be nuts. Yeah, well, I know that she did say that she
was going to do a poll on UFO Twitter where we could nominate someone to
go, which I don't know if she's still going to do that, but
I hope she does because I'm very interested to see who would get picked.
Me me, me, me could be a free for all. Yeah,
yeah, I mean I think she definitely need I mean she needs it,
honestly, and we can get into this. I think we could actually get
into that discussion later. The first thing I really wanted to ask you,
Lampy, and I've scripted out all these questions, which is to say,
one is what made Nathan loves it because he studied for class. You know,
I'm extemporaneous, you know when I do this. So what made you
go to the Anguli press conference in the first place? What drew you to
that particular event? So I was kind of late to the angel party,
Like a lot of people have been following her on Twitter, and don Reddit
since she first appeared back in March twenty twenty one, but I didn't hear
about her until like the end of July because actually, one of the skeptical
accounts that I follow retweeted her announcement of the press conference and was like,
is there anyone in the DC area who's going to cover this? And I
was like, I'm in the DC area. I could go that sounds cool.
Like at that point, I didn't have any opinions on her, and
like I I went and read her first Reddit post, but I hadn't gone
very deep down the rabbit hole. I just thought that was an area it's
going to be a nice August day, whether she's telling the truth or whether
she's starting a cult or whether this is a styop, Like whatever's going on,
it's not going to be boring, so like, why not? So
I went down there and it ended up that she did end up posting her
live stream eventually, but at the time she was a little late getting out
started, so a lot of people were really eager to see what was going
on and started following the thread I made after getting there, So that was
very exciting and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how I had
heard of I had heard her name and heard something tangentially about the story,
but I didn't really know anything. I hadn't delved into it whatsoever until after
reading your posts. So that was my entry way into the phenomenon that has
become anguli about the phenomenon, the phenomenon of the phenomena. And then and
then I, you know, I found her to be a very credible person,
and you know, I you know what I'm gonna let I'm gonna let
Nathan have it now. I mean, I find like, I feel like
you're you know, you're holding a healthy bit of skepticism here, is am
I? Right? Yeah, I think that that's fair. Okay, Nathan,
go for all? Right? Yeah? So where to begin? All
right? So I think what I'm interested in is where this story intersects with
the UFO twitter verse, you know, broadly, right. So, I
know you've been kind of following along in the UFO Twitter since I think last
year that's what looked like you joined Twitter based on your profile, and you
know, I'm curious kind of what caused you to kind of jump into that
space, you know, if you don't mind me asking, was this kind
of your first Twitter account, second Twitter account, and I'm asking because it
wasn't my first Twitter account that I dedicated to UFO Twitter, So curious kind
of what got you into the space and what kept you coming back to the
UFO Twitter verse. Yeah, so it wasn't my first Twitter account period,
but it was my first UFO Twitter account. Basically I start mid getting back
into UFO's late twenty nineteen early twenty twenty, Like, I was very interested
in UFOs and aliens when I was a kid, and then just sort of
got away from it as I got older. And then a couple of years
ago, I just finished up my studies, I'd gotten a job, I
moved to a new apartment, and I'd sort of like hit all of the
adulting milestones and was now like, Okay, what do I want to do
for fun again? And so I started like sort of rediscovering what my goals
were, and one of them was that I wanted to write a novel.
And I was like, well, what am I going to write my novel
about. I'll have about aliens. You used to like aliens. So yeah,
I started writing this novel in twenty nineteen, and at the same time,
I started sort of getting back into reading about UFOs and aliens and alien
abductions. And as part of that, I discovered ufo Twitter. And when
I first made my account back in October twenty twenty, it was solely for
like lurking purposes, Like, I did not have any intention of engaging with
anybody or tweeting because I had a very negative opinion of Twitter and the drama
that ensues there. So my only goal was I'm going to follow some people.
I can turn scrolling through social media into something semi productive, and that's
going to be that. That's why my display name is very unoriginal. That's
why my username is just like a cartoon character from the Brave ol Toaster plus
the Year of the Robber, Like, because I did not think that this
was going to be a real Twitter account, So I started following people,
and on ufo Twitter, as you know, there's a very big culture of
following back. So I started getting followers even though I was not posting anything.
And around the point that my ufo Twitter account started having more followers than
my real Twitter account, even though I had literally never said anything, I
started to I started to engage a little more and it just became very fun.
I met really neat peace people. I I thought that the discussions were
very interesting, and I've just sort of gotten deeper and deeper into it over
the past year. That's awesome. Yeah, And I feel like that's a
probably probably a pretty common experience in terms of folks that take that path and
then they kind of take another step and other steps, and all of a
sudden they find themselves in this village of people that they kind of like hanging
out with. And that that's certainly been my experience as well. You know,
for all of the kind of follows that you have in UFO Twitter,
you know, how would you describe that the spectrum that that you followed?
You try to follow a broad spectrum of of folks in this space. Do
you try to follow folks that kind of lean more toward the nuts in bold
side, or more toward the experiencer side, or you know other aspects?
You know, what kind of population do you do you keep? I try
to follow a diverse number of account I follow some people who are more nuts
and bolts. I follow people who are more on sort of the spiritual side.
I follow people who just are sort of hanging out and seem like meat
people, and I follow skeptics. I follow basically everyone. My only real
carteria is like if the posts, if the things they tweet look interesting,
and if they don't seem like a massive jerk, then that's that's pretty much
my only criteria for who I will follow. What I mean more in the
category of nuts or bolts as far as you're concerned, Do you really want
me to answer that? Probably not? Probably, let's okay, Yeah,
go ahead, go ahead. Well, no, I mean, I'm just
trying to figure out what is the area. I think another way of phrasing
Nathan's question is is there something that's more fascinating aspect of this more so than
the other and that may be what you're going to write about in your book
or maybe well I would assume it would have to be what you're writing about
in your book the aspect of what aspect is most interesting. Yeah, So
when I came in, like I was pretty much exclusively focused on the extraterrestrial
hypothesis and aliens, specifically alien abductions, because that's that's what's in my book.
And I think I just aliens, I think are neat and that it's
not terribly intellectual of me to say, but that's the aliens are cool,
So I wanted to look up stuff related to aliens. But I think that
having been in this space for the past year has made me sort of more
open to and interested in alternative hypotheses about the phenomenon and just sort of different
aspects of this subject. So, yeah, it's been an interesting so the
whole aspect of the ocean and the fact that there's, you know, at
least some evidence that that maybe they're already here, or we're here before us,
and or are revealing themselves now due to things they see happening in the
natural environment geopolitically, perhaps with nukes. Do you is that what changed your
mind? I don't know if it's that specifically. I think more of what
has changed my mind is sort of seeing people talk about like the theory that
sort of the phenomenon we're seeing now is the same as what has been behind
like various weird stuff that we have seen throughout history, and that just sort
of the explanations we come up for it are different depending on our culture.
But but I do find that the stuff of the uso stuff interesting. Yeah,
I mean that blew my mind like I did not have in my mind
ever until I don't know, like lou Elisondo started talking about, oh wow,
these things are coming out of the water, and then Dave Fraber recounted
that one of the navy divers that was grabbing up a torpedo and trying to
pull it up with a helicopter had seen something. So that really blew my
mind because I had never thought. I had always thought in terms of extraterrestrial
coming from other planets, and now there's some evidence that that's not the case.
So we have to look at that. There's both and and then you
know, Anglie also talking about the fact that there's some beings that are quite
looking to be friendly toward us, looking to help us transcend. In those
four she was talking about that aren't friendly. Do you remember hearing about that?
Yeah, I do remember that. Kind of surprised that there isn't more
talk about that. Actually seems like might be important if that's something that's going
on, you think, yeah, yeah, it's a I find that,
at least in the folks that I follow, the focus generally is more on
the positive aspects of it. You know that there is more of the hopeful
you know kind of selvafic quality that UFOs represent to people. And yeah,
it may not be all that great if we really look at every different aspect
of it. And I find that that voice tends to kind of get drowned
out a little bit too. There are folks who do bring it up,
but they seem to get outnumbered quite a bit from the love and light crowd,
if you will, well, but if we're objective about it. Even
Angelie, who would count herself among that, also said they told her there
are ones that are not friendly. So there's a person who is spreading as
much love and light as possible. That's coming from yoga teacher, you know,
is also saying that there are beings that she was told that are not
friendly. So if people don't want to buy that, and they believe her,
but then they don't want to take they want to just like xcisee that
sliver of it out. I mean, we to be honest, you know,
I get you know you you you hate you know. I don't want
this podcast to be like a continuous refrain of Louis Elazondo and Ajulie, although
it probably will be, but I like but I like it. Louise is
very measured when he all look at that. Now, that's class right there,
and man, put the camera back. Now, I'll just keep doing
it, right. I'm kind of jealous right now. Okay, I am
jealous right now too. I just had getting over a stomach problem. Yeah
cocktail. Yeah. No. This is my first live podcast recording, so
I need an excuse if I say something stupid. There you go. You
know what. I've been doing it for since twenty ten. I've been saying
things stupid on airon I'm still here. So but yeah, I liked it.
Louis says all things. You know, you have to say this is
not an existential threat. But if you say it it can't be because they
have the power to destroy us, then I'm sorry. I would have to
disagree with those people. I'm a lov and like person. I do believe
in what Angeli said about transcension uh and being better humans to one another and
finding a better way to communicate than what we currently use, which, by
the way, has devolved from this type of communication to text. There are
people that don't even want to talk to you now, They just want to
text you. If you try to call them, they won't answer, so
Seriously, that's a that's a that's a devolution of communication, not an expansion
or broadening or transcending of of our of our communication as humans in my mind,
So if you, but you have to leave open the possibility. And
by the way, uh, somebody who who espouses that opinion said it for
for as much. So yeah, like I am, I definitely think that
asking like are the beings friendly or not is the wrong question because like what
if they asked us are humans friendly or not? Like, how would you
even answer that? And we're just one species, So I don't think it
makes sense to think that if they are aliens, all of them are going
to be one thing or the other completely. Is there a an abduction or
a contact narrative from someone that resonates with you the most, or is there
a couple of those? Well, I've always found the Aerial School incident absolutely
fascinating just because of just the sheared number of people who were there and who
have maintained the story as they grew up and years later. I'm really excited
for the I think it's James Fox is making a documentary about it, and
the Phenomena documentary was fantastic and I'm really excited about this one. I think
that a lot of people don't know about this incident, because I certainly didn't
know about it until I started getting into the subject more and more. So
I think that once it's mainstream, it's going to get a lot of attention.
Right. Yeah. I think that that Aerial school piece from his movie
The Phenomenon, that that that segment is really what probably humanized the topic the
most, and for folks that were a little bit on the fence on it,
that one story, maybe even more so than the Nenets, is the
one that really kind of grabs you and pulls you in because of how personal
that that testimony is from those kids and how dynamic that was. So I
think that that's like a There are some of these sort of gateway cases,
right that really are very compelling and that that draw you in and maybe draw
you in for different reasons. So Nimmet's is a great example, Aeriel is
a great example. And then we have the experiencer cases, theduction cases.
And I know you did a thread Travis Walton, love for you to talk
about that a little bit. And two I think I want you to touch
on if you wouldn't mind, Like as a writer, you know, is
your approach to Twitter and some of these great threads that you've compiled, Is
that a drive that you have because because of the kind of fragmentary nature of
Twitter itself, to kind of bring this stuff together and make it a little
bit more coherent. Yeah, that's definitely because because, like I said,
news moves very quickly on Twitter, and I have definitely I am someone who
has to know what's going on, Like curiosity will drive me insane, and
so I absolutely hate when I see a subtweet and I have to spend the
next three hours like searching every keyword I can think of, like asking my
friends, just like being the Twitter fbi, just so that I can find
out what the gossip is. So anytime that I am in a position where
I see people asking about something and I know what's going on and it's something
that's like newsworthy enough that I don't feel like a gossip brag making a thread
about it, then I want to do that. I think that it's it's
fun for me, and I hope that it satisfies people's curiosity and saves them
time. Absolutely. I mean, well, your your threads are super helpful.
I mean, and I find that out for everybody that spends people that
spend the time to compile all of this disparate information into into a format that
people can digest as opposed to, like you said, kind of going through
the forest of breadcrumbs that are out there and trying to make sense of it
all. I mean, it's a it's a public service quite frankly, so
you know, thank you, thank you for doing it. Yeah, it's
It's also been really nice to like have sort of found a way that I
can add to UFO Twitter and contribute something because like I'm not a researcher,
I'm not a scientist. Like I I some of the stuff that people will
talk about like makes my brain meld. If like you could ask me now,
like what the hell is going on with TTSA, and I was like,
I don't know. There's Lou and there's Tomm DeLong and like the government's
involved somehow. But but but when there are things that I can write something
about that might help, then it makes me feel like I am I am
here for a reason absolutely. Yeah, Like me countering Mick West has turned
into like a cottage industry. I'm just kidding. I forgot how many rounds
we were on with that, like round five, six, You know,
I've got I've got so much. I just have to have the proper platform.
And it's like, I would invite him on here, but I think
it would be rude to invite him on here and then insult him. And
that's just but and it would he would people would take it as an insult.
But I want to just say that. You know that term when someone
says with all due respect and then they assault you, but in the truest
sense of the word, with all due respect to you. This is what
I think, and depending upon how you respect others, is the way that
I'm gonna respect you. So if Mick is talking about fighter pilots don't know
what they're doing, don't know what they're looking at. I don't think this
person flew the airplane correctly. I don't think they upgrade their sensor correctly.
And I know from aviation background what it takes to do that, and I
know I'm not even on the level of these guys. And then some guy
who made video games is doing that, then I think he's not giving them
the respect their due. So if I say Mick with all due respect,
I mean that in that help me phrase this, Nathan, I mean that
in the most honest sense of that phrase. Very yeah, the sincerest.
I do mean that, if you're disrespecting them, I'm gonna and I know
what your credentials are. I'm gonna to call those into question. But I'll
save the Mickwest for later. I didn't like to be charitable, like I
do think that Micwest tends to come across better when he's either quoted in a
long form article or when he appears on podcasts, Like I really do think
that when you were on Twitter and when you were like saying the first thing
that comes to mind in less than two forty characters, like you are not
your best self and you are probably actually your worst self. So okay,
but when you say that, you're viewing that through the prism of somebody who
doesn't know aviation. So if he says something and he's really smart, like
if you're going to say who's smarter, Mick West or DJ, Mick West
is going to be up here and I'm going to be down here. But
with four thousand hours of military flying, then DJ is going to be up
here and Mick West is going to be down here, h okay when we're
talking about evaluating, well, first of all, I know enough. Like
if you said to me, dj what did you think about what Chad Underwood
or Dave frav or Alex Dietrich did, I'm gonna say I don't know because
I wasn't trained in their mission set. I didn't go through the thousands hours
of tactics, ground training, flight training, past check rides, become an
instructor, become an evaluator, go through top gut all the things that they
did. You have no idea what it takes to do that, right,
So, but I do I have. And so when somebody like Mick West,
the lay person goes, wow, he's you know, he sounds pretty
reasonable, yes, because you don't know what it took to do what they
did. But they know that he's a buffoon, and that's why they don't
come on air with him. You know. Dietrich went on and was very
charitable and very friendly with him, and Chris Laedo was too. Dave Fraver
won't be the guy who does the Fighter Pilot podcast on Apple Vincent Jello Alo.
I guarantee he's not going to be, and I wouldn't be because I'm
gonna say, you are not qualified to critique that person's flying. None,
no qualifications. So that's the respect that you're due for saying that. And
there are people out there like Lampy who goes, oh, well, you
know, geez, sounds like he's pretty thoughtful and reasonable. Yes, but
meanwhile he put out a tweet today with his living room sofa sinks. I
did like that one. Yeah, okay, so you're questioning them again when
they told you how they identified a white object against a dark blue sea from
twenty thousand feet. That's what they're trained to do. It's not what I
was trained to do. I was trained in tactical, low level flying.
That's not what fighter pilots are trained in doing. They're not comfortable at two
hundred and fifty feet like I am flying for an hour and a half in
the mountains, and I'm not comfortable diving, you know, diving down the
ocean at an object like Fraver did. Right, It's it's a very specific
skill you wouldn't catch. Okay, to give an example, you hear what
Mick said, I couldn't get a pilot who I flew with to say what
he said. You know what, that pilot would say, those guys are
the experts in that man. That's not my that's not my area. I
mean, I could, I could get you a high time pilot that went
to Air Force Weapons school that would say that if we asked them to critique
those guys, they would look at it. They'd listen to it, they'd
read it, they'd listened to the interview, and they'd say, I they
saw what they saw. I can't. But Mick West is okay to say,
oh, yeah, those guys they don't that make mistakes, you know,
right well, And it's interesting. I think that in the absence of
good information, which you know you could argue is a good portion of UFO
twitter. Uh, there's there's a vacuum of information, of quality data that
allows for tremendous amounts of speculation. And where I think, you know,
I know you have your specific beefs. My specific beefs with him are the
way that he takes that very little amount of information and then extrapolates out from
that very large speculative conclusions. You know. So I have issues with conclusions
off off of very little data, but I have that same beef with a
lot of folks in UFO Twitter that will take a tiny little thing and say,
well, I mean it must be x y Z. I think that
that that's a little disingenuous to make that leap. But LAMPI, I mean,
what do you think about that? I think I'm pretty much with you
on this. Like, I agree that mcwest seems to sort of be in
the habit of thinking up an alternate explanation and sort of putting it forth,
even if it's not based on very much, because he just sees it as
inherently a better explanation than aliens. But I think that. But I also,
like, don't think that he's like the enemy or a terrible person because
of this, because, like I think people judge him more harshly because he's
on the skeptical side when, like you said, a lot of people speculate
on UFO Twitter and on when it comes to Twitter. We all have bad
takes sometimes, Like I've had bad takes, a lot of my friends have,
Like, we all tweet stuff that isn't super well thought out, and
we're all wrong about things. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you're not an
important part of the community. That's right, and we're not on CNN doing
it though, right. No, I want I want to stay for the
record. I want to I want to get this actually on air. I
don't dislike Mick West. I don't not respect him. I'm happy he's part
of the community. I don't There are two things I think. First of
all, uh so, I'm happy that he does debunk things because people will
put out a UFO video that he is able to then find is fake,
and that is a huge service to us. He's also apparently I don't really
follow his work, but he's done that with QAnon and other anti vacs and
other conspiracy theories. So I really thank Mick West. I must stay for
doing stuff like that. I really appreciate that, and I think it's of
service to the community. What I have a problem with is I think,
if you start at the beginning, there's an intellectual dishonesty in the way that
he approaches it, because he comes out and says on camera, hey,
I just want to learn, I just want the data. But he approaches
the subject from Okay, everybody thinks it's this, and so I'm going to
try to prove that it's not that so that's not intellectually, that's not me
trying to learn. If you have a Luis Elizondo on your show, and
I actually have talking points about this where he ask Luise, you know with
the gimbal, you know, I think it's this glads, the glad,
glad. He's sending glad over and over. He's saying, we had electro
you know, we bring in electrical optical engineers, we brought in aerospace engineers,
we brought in pilots, We reviewed stuff, and by the way,
Mick, we have more than what you've seen. We have other sensor data
and other things, and we don't agree with your hypothesis, to which he
says, yes, yes, yes, okay, So let's talk about the
Chilean Air Force. So that right there, I'm not kidding. He digresses
to her relevancies. So he's intellectually dishonest from the way he approaches it,
which he says, I'm trying to learn. No, you're not trying to
learn. You are trying to find one aspect of this, which is what
Lampey was alluding to that and actually, Nathan, you also alluded to it.
That one string. We want to talk about that angle and the range,
because if they didn't get the range right, or they didn't get the
side of it right, then maybe we can dismiss the Princeton radar footage,
the E two radar footage, the testimony from all of them, plus the
pilots, and then yeah, everything's in question at this point. So that
that and when he said to Lou also about the tic TAC, and Lou
came and said, yes, we looked at this. We didn't use single
source on this. There's other data that you haven't seen that we did see.
He still won't say. Now somebody who's interested in learning, say,
oh wow, that's really interesting, Lou, I should rethink this, you
know. I mean, if you've seen things that I haven't seen in your
privy to information, I'm not. And the pilot and it jobs is what
the pilots testify, I might have to change. He's not ever going to
say that, so to me, he's starting from a dishonest place because he's
not trying to learn. He's trying to say, how can I prove it's
not would all these people think it is? So I can be the smart
one. And people who are lay, lay people actually, you know,
will say Hey, he seems pretty reasonable. You thought that, but it's
it's not when you call into question people that we paid to do this.
We paid you paid to teach Alex Dietrich how to do this. And I'm
telling you how not easy it is. And I know, I know Nick
has flown to Sessna. I've also licensed to fly Sessna. Let me tell
you how much more difficult it is to fly one of these aircraft with g's,
with a G suit, when you have someone that straps you in and
pulls on those straps, like the damn Space Shuttle, and then and then
you have that sensor camera on your head. You know, they have that
helmet mounted queuing system, all that kind of stuff. It's just it's he
doesn't understand what he's looking at, and he doesn't know that he doesn't understand
it. But people who are lay folks think that he knows because he went
and read a manual about the camera. So he's trying to start from the
end. I'm gonna be analyzed first, but I haven't gone through the hard
part. The hard part is getting through flight school and even getting selected to
fly a fighter. Then after you get to fly, in order to critique
others. You have to become an instructor and your your records go up in
front of a board and they nominate you as an instructor. Once you're an
instructor, now I could critique Lampy's flying before that she flies. I fly.
I don't tell her how to do her business because I'm not an instructor.
If she gets to be an instructor before me, Hey, DJ,
I didn't like what you did in today's exercise. Tell me why, and
you sit down debrief me. Then there's flight examiner, and a flight examiner
will decide if you fly, which means on any day Lampy can come and
pat me on the shoulder and squad and go, DJ, guess what we're
doing a no notice check cry today. So we're gonna give you a briefing,
gonna look at these are the parameters. That's what I'm gonna be looking
at, good Lie. So now I know that she's going to be looking
over my shoulder for the entire flight and writing down anything she sees. There's
I can't tell you, guys how much pressure there is when that happens.
It's an enormous amount of pressure. Just okay, and that's what a flight
examiner does. So now, now if I don't do well, you could
say, DJ, you're gonna have to sit down for a while. We're
gonna do some training and we'll try to get you back up. For now
you're grounded. That's happened. Okay, Oh yeah, right, okay,
well it happened. And I think what you're highlighting, and I mean every
time that you go down this path, like, I'm just like, oh
my gosh, it's there's so much more to the training that people get than
I think most realize. And when you describe it like this and contextualize it
for folks, I think it adds many layers of depth to these testimonies that
come from these pilots. You know it for me at least for me,
it does it, and it increases my level of trust in those testimonies.
And I think, like Lamby, what I'd like for you to talk about,
you know, in your observation of this of the landscape, really is
that this issue of trust, right, so you know, because we're hitting
on it, we're kind of dancing around it, but that it really is
a big part of what we choose to like or not like. Follow or
not follow is the credibility of the story, the witness, whatever it is.
So you walk us through a little bit in your journey anyway, And
when you're in Twitter and kind of navigating things and looking at these kinds of
stories, you know what increases your level of trust in a story and what
kind of you know is a red flag for you to like walk away from
from that particular account when I'm just kidding. Yeah, So when I when
I look at stories on you have Twitter, I think that, first of
all, for a long time, I wasn't even looking at it that way,
because, like I said, I originally came to this looking for sort
of inspiration risk a novel I was writing, and so like, from at
that point, I didn't really care if stories were true. I just was
looking for things that were interesting. But now that I'm looking at it more
for a more discerning point of view, I think that I tend to look
at the source of the link, and if it's a site that I recognize,
either it's a mainstream outlet or it's run by someone who has been recognized
by the community, then it's something I'm more likely to trust than if it's
by some side I've never heard of that crashes fifty bazillion times when I try
to open it on my phone. I think that there are people that I
have interacted with for almost a year now that I just trust more on a
personal level, which isn't necessarily like something that I would swear to in court
as a reason to trust someone, but it does. But I think that
building relationships with people does like make them make you trust them more. And
I do tend to look at the details and of stories and see if they
add up to me based on what I know, Like it isn't super often
that I have expertise that is relevant in this field, but it occasionally happens.
Yeah, and yeah it's And then I also look at sort of whether
this story has been told other times and compare notes on whether it's consistent and
how which parts of it are consistent, because you expect there to be some
minor inconsistencies and stories that are told repeatedly over the course of years, like
people's memories are imperfect, like very minor details can be remembered differently on different
retellings. Because they say that when you when you recall a memory, you
aren't actually recalling the memory of the event. You're recalling the memory of the
last time you remembered it, so wow. Yeah, but there are some
But if there are major inconsistencies on like events that are key to the narrative,
or or if the narrative seems to change in a way that benefits the
teller or seems to make their role bigger than it was in the original tellings,
that can be to me a sign that maybe the truth is being stretched.
And then, of course, like I said, I try to follow
more skeptical minded people so I can see alternate views on the events. Like
I don't assume that just because someone is posting a debunking means that they're automatically
right, because, like you said, like people who are on the skeptical
side are not immune from cognitive biases. Nobody is. But I do think
that seeing that view can help you look at it from a different perspective when
you're trying to make your own decisions. Yeah, yeah, you know,
I went through this with Green Street a little bit. My Twitter friend Steven,
how are you. I'm sure your hair looks great today. But in
analyzing the whole Tucson helicopter thing, which fascinated UFO Twitter for about two weeks
or so, and I was trying to and I was going back and forth
with a guy on there, and I'm not sure what it is. I
think it's still in question. But just to give you an example, if
Stephen green Street, journalists for New York Posts write The Basement Office, if
he were to hand me a piece of literature and said, DJ read this,
and I read it, and I say, Okay, that's pretty ordinary.
I mean, I think anybody could have writ that, and DJ,
this is a phenomenal piece of writing, Like you don't know what you're looking
at, man, And I'd be like, okay, well, you know,
maybe I don't. I mean, I don't really have any courses in
journalism. I have basic I was writing, you know, at my apex,
so yeah, maybe I don't. So by contrast, we can listen
to a narrative of drones and helicopters interacting in Tucson and I say that's Stephen's.
He could say, oh, well, that's pretty ordinary what it did.
And I'll go, dude, do you understand like how difficult it is
to perform those maneuvers that that thing did? You don't know what you're looking
at. So you see, if it comes to writing, Steven's gonna be
like, dude, this is a this is a brilliant piece of writing.
Or if it were Louise him In is this is a wonderful screenplay and you
think it's ordinary. Well, I'm gonna say the same thing when I hear
about a drone that's sitting at ten thousand some a some kind of craft that
we don't know it is sitting at ten thousand feet and they said it zoomed
straight up to thirteen thousand feet. I know what it takes to do that
exactly, and the fact that they can't see it on an IR camera really
freaks me out. And they said it was one hundred feet off the wington.
So what your training and what your expertise is. Some of my expertise
happens to fall in some of these. But if you start talking about something
like what happened with ANGELI or Travis Walton, I have no. My expertise
is nothing. I'm none. It's the same as anybody else. But if
we're talking at something aviation specific, now I can I can raise my voet,
but I mean there are many many aspects of upology. In fact,
when I see a UFO video, I know nothing. I would ask Micwest
is this real? Because to me, this looks like a real UFO video,
and he could look at it and go, dude, that's obviously faked.
Look you can see here. Yeah, So we all have an area
you know. Yeah, I don't spend a lot of time watching UFO videos
for that reason. Like, I have no idea if this is real or
not. I don't know anything about aviation or about CGI or like anything that
would allow we to determine if this is real based on looking at the video.
So right, right, it's just you know, they're different areas of
expertise, and sometimes in some cases none of us haven't an expertise in what
we're talking about at all. Then at that point it's just thoughtful analysis,
right, like totally, Well, thanks, love you back, bro.
So yeah, I mean, but I think like what we're touching on is
just a it's a symptom of a larger issue that we're having, you know,
globally, right and that and and that that's this issue of trust,
of credibility of you know, sort of the lack of faith and institutions that
we may have had in the past, that all of these things that have
been sort of normal, the reliance on expertise, you know, the the
deference to expertise, all these things are are changing. They're they're eroding in
a way. Maybe erosion is not quite the right word to use, but
the plates are shifting. In other words, the way that it has worked
is not working any longer. You know, yeah, exactly, it's a
tectonic change. Yeah, it's a tectonic change. I've got to pay this
guy, like, there's no way he can be doing this for free.
Smart So we have this new landscape, right, we have this new landscape
that is forming, and we're all a part of it, you know,
We're all part of that conversation. And it's a new way for us to
in a way almost crowdsource credibility or trustworthiness or whatnot. And I think about
this problem in the context of Aluel Azondo or the government in general. So
if if the government, if we take the position, and I think most
in euthology would that the government knows more about this topic than than the average
person does than most of us. Do they have more information, more data,
what have you? Yet the public is at a place in history where
the faith in that institution is way lower than it's ever been. So how
do you how do you balance that this out? And I think about what
Lou's doing on his like the Lou Road Show, Jesus, you know,
because that's what he's basically he's always on. Then that guy is working so
hard, he's on all the shows and he's just getting the word out.
And if you think about what you would need to begin restoring credibility in the
narrative, you're gonna have to, you know, put in the work.
You're gonna have to the boots are gonna have to hit the ground and do
the walking and walk a long time and hold a lot of hands and have
a lot of conversations to where you get to the place where the community and
those that are behind the community. Because for every person you see on UFO
Twitter who's involved or lurking, as you said, LAMPI, you know,
like and I think all of us relateate to that, there's a whole host
of people behind that person that aren't aware of it, or only tangentially aware
of it, maybe never never interested it at all, but that they intersect
the orbit of that person who's engaged with UFO Twitter. So if Lou and
his outreach and others like Chris likely like Chris Mellan, if what they're doing
is restoring credibility in the institution of the government of the secret keepers by all
of this work that they're doing, and if we extend to them our charity
and our trust, then when the secrets begin getting become revealed or are more
revealed, then we have we are all in a position at that point to
amplify that truth and say, hey, I know this may sound weird,
but we've walked miles with with this guy and we trust him now, and
so we you know, you can trust us because you know us and we
trust him. He's do an enormous amount of work too, to bring his
knowledge up to all these He was a biochem major who went into intel and
man he is really his knowledge of aviation is sharp. Man, Oh tremendous.
I mean, the guy is clearly a sharp guy. And I guess
so Lamby, Like you know, as we talk about that, you know
one thing that I noticed this happens and how it often happens in the lull
periods between you know, the news cycles, the breaking sort of things that
happen on UFO Twitter. Uh. You know, it's it's like the community
kinds to tend to start turning inward and there's like a circular firing squad that
begins to happen. You know that we have this this pens up need for
something. When that need isn't satisfied, we take it out on each other,
right, and we do this. Yeah, Like I don't I'm sure
you remember UFO Twitter in June, Like in those two or three weeks leading
up to the u a PTF report being released, it was it was a
mess. Like people were like like like the claws were out. There was
so much drama community. So yeah, I definitely think that when people are
restless, then there tends to be more of more drama on UFO Twitter.
And I and I think that, yeah, we all are in a time
where it is difficult to know who to trust. Like, I think trust
in the government is low. I think trust in a lot of mainstream media
outlets has been low for a while, and like even trust in each other
is low because this is a topic where a lot of us are anonymous or
pseudononymous, because we because it's still somewhat stigmatized, and we don't necessarily want
our boss to google us and find us talking about UFOs. But at the
same time, like we know that there are bots and trolls and people on
Twitter who are there specifically to divide communities and cause problems for an afarious ends,
and so it's really hard to establish the trust needed to move forward on
a subject like this, And that's why I think it's so important to sort
of build a lasting community here. And yes, and like with Elizondo,
like I've noticed that he appears on like the sixty Minutes Special, but he'll
also go on podcasts that have a couple of thousand subscribers. And so I
think that people who are trying to make this topic mainstream are conscious of the
fact that they need to not only rely on their status and expertise, but
build relationships with people and make it known that they're someone who can be relied
on on a personal level. Absolutely, And I was going to ask you
if if you were to give your state of uthology in terms of I think
the government knows this has that like a lot of people in terms of programs,
So do you think they have craft don't have craft, have had beings,
have never had beings, no more than what the uf UAPTF knows,
doesn't know more. Where you let's go, I'd like to go around the
horn. Go you and then Nathan, and then I'll go. What do
you think is the status of where we're at now? In terms of their
grasp on this topic, Like if going purely by gut feeling, not based
on anything reliable, I would guess that they know more than we do,
but not by much. I would not assume that they have bodies or craft.
I think that I, if I were to guess, I would say
that the government knows enough that it would be embarrassing to admit they didn't.
They don't know more than they do. And I also think that there's a
good chance that there is knowledge sort of scattered in bits and pieces among various
agencies, like different branches of the military might have some information, the Task
Force my have some, NASA might have some, and just but but it
hasn't gotten to a point where they've been able to sort of compile everything that's
known, especially because since there are so many unknowns with this topic, you
might have information that would help put the puzzle together. But not even know
that it has anything to do with UAPs. Interesting, Yeah, well right,
I mean the Vatican comes to mind, you know, whatever they may
have in their treasure trove of information through history, right, stories that may
have seemed like traditional miracles may in fact be you know, there you go,
some sort of manifestation of whatever this is. But I think you're spot
on. I think that and Lou's recent interview, I forget who it was
with Andy, I don't. Yeah, that's right, it was with Andy.
You know, that confirmed for me that we don't we don't know as
much as we as we hope that they know. He doesn't that the government
does not know as much as we hope that they know. I think that
they they do know a good bit. I think that they have, you
know, like you said, compartmentalized information. But there in lies the challenge,
and that is like to start kind of compiling it, putting it out
there and then looking at out looking at all the pieces that are on the
table and saying, well, we have all these pieces. We don't have
the box, we don't know what it looks like, but we've we've collected
all this stuff. So okay, like I guess we all need to try
to put it together like and that, you know, think about how that
howw challenging that would be to the world that has in the twentieth century,
the modern world has grown a custom to state power having sort of answers.
You know that they have the resources, they have the expertise, they know
more than average person does about most things. So to put all of this
out there on the table and say, you know what, we really don't
know and we now need everyone in the world to sort of look at this
with us and can put it together. I think that is I mean,
I can't imagine how they would start that task. It sounds really challenging unless
and this is where I think I'm the most curious about is is the conversation
partner that we haven't talked about, and that is whatever they are, whatever
this non human intelligence happens to be, what role do they play in us
solving this puzzle. Are they going to be a proactive role in helping us
answer these questions or are they going to just sort of passively sit back and
see if we can put it together on our own, or do we need
to reach a certain critical mass of interest to where then this intelligence says,
Okay, now that sixty percent of the world is interested in this and it
is open to this concept, this is an okay time for us to you
know, be more actively involved in the truth and revealing whatever it may be.
I think that this is the journey that we're now on, that we've
made, we started making these steps. The public is now a part of
the of this journey in a way that has never been before. And now
it's for me, it's like, what is the timeline? You know,
how long do we have to walk together and bring other people along with us.
It's sort of like Forrest Gump when he takes the run across the country
and you know, people start joining him on the run. You know,
how many people do we need to get on that run before it starts hitting
the news and it's a real thing and it's a movement, right, So
I really don't think we're quite at that point yet. I think we're still
at a sort of niche, you know, fringe interest. Although you know,
interestingly, every time that the mainstream media picks this up, they get
a ton of eyeballs on that. And the New York Times will tell you,
like one of their most wide read articles. Is still that twenties seventeen
articles, so you know they're the interest is there, but maybe we don't
quite have at the place yet to where we can really have that mature conversation.
Now, I want to bring Bella over to see lampy, but Bella,
Bella is crashed out over there. It doesn't look like she wants to
get up. But okay, my roundup is as follows. I agree with
both of your points. I don't think obviously, I don't think they know
everything. They don't know where these craft are from. I believe Okay,
so here's what I think. I believe that based on the evidence shows that
there are these UAS craft. They're craft that are peer not to go in
the water. There are these very very large craft that people have seen,
particularly where I grew up. So I think the government is a where of
all of these sightings and have collected probably pieces of these. I am one.
I know just enough about Area fifty one or Groom Lake Test Range to
know that, and I'm going to counter something I heard on Twitter. They
could hih. I assure you of this. I'm positive of this. I
can't tell you what they have there. I can tell you they could hide
something there until you die and your kids die like that. That's I mean,
that's basically what we're looking at because it's been there since what forty nine
fifty something like that. So so yes, if they had something, that
would be the place that you would put it. And I have a fair
degree of confidence that something like that probably if it exists, it exists there.
It probably exists. I can't say I'm one hundred percent sure in terms
of a contractor having something like big Low Aerospace or Lockeed Martin. I can
also assure you if there was a craft, it would not be in one
of those facility these full stop. A piece of metal, sure, a
couple of pieces here, a couple of pieces there. You guys examine this.
Yes, something that you could walk somebody by and they'd look at it
and they wouldn't know what it is. But if there is a craft that's
anywhere near intact, it is going to be in a facility that nobody can
see, and that would be a place like the Groom Lake Test Range,
China Lake right Pat underground places things like that. Particularly it's well traveled at
right Pat, but at a place like Groom lake. You can't even you
can't even overfly it, like you can't fly over top of that range,
right, you know, if you're an airliner. Yeah, so I agree
with you guys. I don't think they know everything at all. I don't
think they know where these things are from. I don't think they've been successful
in back engineering any significant part of them that would lead to something that looks
like ticktac. Because if that's the case, then you know, I've been
involved in acquisition and we're buying airplanes that are nowhere near what TikTok is.
So I don't know why we would be doing that if we could be buying
something that will perform like TikTok. So so anyway, let's go back to
Angelie, my friend. Let's go back to the You know, people don't
want to see this, so you got to take the camera out there,
naven S LAMPI. Let's go through this chronologically. If you go through this
story from the beginning, tell me what resonates with you, what you have
questions about. I don't know if you want to start at the hospital room
or back at the apartment that she was in as a contractor with her daughter
and by the way, I haven't even seen I don't know her daughter's Twitter,
so I haven't seen anything about what she has to say whatsoever. I'll
have to talk to you about that offline. But well, first of all,
I didn't realize her daughter had a Twitter, So that is very interesting
information. If that gets revealed, I will definitely have to look into that.
But yeah, I think Angelie is a very interesting person. Like I
know that what I know that some people have looked into her background and it
seems like she is being honest at least about her professional credentials that there hasn't
been I know some people have called them into question, but no one's really
found a smoking gun against that against what she said, and some people have
found corroborating evidence. So she definitely has at least worked for the government in
some capacity. And just having seen her speak in person, she's very She's
very easy to listen to, Like she seems like a very nice person.
Like if you just ran into her at a cafe and made small talk with
her, she wouldn't strike you as somebody weird or strange. You would just
seem like a very nice mom lady. Uh So, like I saw her
to cafe and said, Hey, would you like to go to my house
and see an alien like that? I'm sorry, it's just too close.
Yeah, no, no, that's fine. But yeah, like she she
seems like a very approachable person, I think, but like, but of
course, like just because somebody is nice and just because someone is intelligent doesn't
mean that they're necessarily trustworthy. And there are aspects of her story that do
seem reminiscent of cults and that are that are concerning, Like specifically, her
talk about how the world is about to become uninhabitable to beings who inhabit these
bodies and we are going to have to ascend to a higher density, Like
that sounds very Heaven's gaety, It's very concerning to me. She sort of
dropped that line at the press conference and then looked out at the reflecting pool
and was like, oh, look, the ducks are so pretty, and
I was like, yes they are, but like backcalyptic. Yeah, Like,
I feel like like you should say more on that, ma'am. I
also think that her descriptions of what's going on with Wayne are very strange,
like the fact that he and Trisha have only been given pseudonyms and apparently want
to remain anonymous and not be involved in this and not have their location revealed.
And on the one hand, I get wanting your privacy like that,
That's why I'm here in the giant alien. I sunglasses, going by initials.
But like, you made contact with aliens, and etis aliens is not
PC anymore. I apologize. I will post my notes app apology on Twitter
later and hopefully you won't cancel me. But he but he made contact minute.
I'm sorry, ah, thank you, But he made contact with ets.
They told him to drill into the mountain to find their base. This,
this man single handedly excavated a mountain in order to find these aliens.
He brought in a random lady he met at a cafe to meet them,
who was then told that a new era is beginning because the world is about
to end. And he's like, I want to be anonymous because my wife
and I want to keep living a private life. Like man, that ship
has sailed, Like you're like, this is the most like if this is
true, this is the most significant event of our lifetimes at least, if
not all of human history. And like you're worried about people talking about you
on the internet, Like, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to
me. And then Angelie had her post today where she sort of was heading
off people wanting to find the mountain on Wayne's property on their own and just
sort of post a thread talking about how like Wayne values his privacy and also
he is very well off and he has armed guards outside of his place,
and he lives in the in a mountain in the middle of the desert.
Oh she's so pretty. But but but yeah, and it it just sounds
very strange and to the point where I feel like, even if Angeli brought
back definitive proof of the Aliens on this trip, and like it turned out
that aspect of her story was one hundred percent legit, I would wonder if
she's not being completely truthful on the Wayne thing. Like I would wonder if
Wayne is sort of an alternate explanation for a much more powerful and resourced benefactor
than you would expect from just like one guy who lives out in the desert
with his wife LAMPI I'm willing to go quid pro quo. I mean,
if she produces the Aliens, I'm okay. If Wayne, Yeah, like
you know, and it could be Wayne anybody, you know. I mean,
I'm okay with it. Maybe it's been the return of Wayne Newton for
all I care. Yeah, no, that's that's totally fair. But yeah,
maybe it's Batman. Guys could be Bruce Wayne. I mean, Lambie's
got a high standard. Not only does she want to see four fully fleshed
ani means one of being an eight tall lavender skin manthis, but she also
wants to know Wayne's identity or this whole thing is farce, you'll know.
But I do think that, like I don't know that bothers you. There's
something about you know what's interesting is that is that actually is an interesting point,
right Nathan that bothers her? Yeah, no, I get it.
I mean there are a lot of points in this story that are head scratching,
to say the least, I think. At the same time, since
we've never had an alien reveal before, we have no benchmark by wish to
judge what it would look like. So you know, this is sort of
where I think, you know, we're all going to struggle, right,
It's like we don't have anything to really judge this against other than other than
the number of instances in human history where individuals or groups of individuals have made
similar proclamations that have ended up being just complete bogus. And you know what,
I don't know if why I'm having this thought right now, but when
one of the earlier books that I read when I started getting into this topic
was John Keel's Operation Trojan Horse, which I highly recommend. If you haven't
read it, you've got to read it. It's excellent. And what what
Keel does He goes through several different, uh sort of accounts throughout history and
talks about some of the similarities of those accounts. And Jacques Vallet does this
as well in Passport to Magonia. Talks about all these sort of different stories
and they're very strange, you know, they're very strange instances where people have
encounters with, you know, beings and they tell people about it. Nobody
believes them. The beings are weird, they do weird things that none of
it really it makes a lot of sense. So you're kind of left going
like, okay, like was this a real thing that happened? Was this
a made up story? And if it was real and nothing came of it,
what was the point of that? Right? So Keel kind of gets
at this narrative that there's a trickster component to the phenomenon that likes to play
with and, you know, toy with humanity in a way. And so
I think there it's a very real possibility that this her experience could have been
real and and very real to her. And when this expedition goes to wherever,
it may be that none of it's there, right, but it could
still be very real. So it may have been something that is designed its
whole purpose is designed to create a controversy and have something kind of collapse in
on itself for reasons I don't understand, but there seems to be precedent for
that. Yeah, I am. I've definitely seen people talk about that possibility
that she's not lying and she's not crazy, but that whatever she had contact
with is not something that can be trusted. And if that happens, I
think I would I think that we'll have to see what her reaction is because
if she comes forward and is like I believed this, I was misled and
just sort of owns that, then I would hope people are kind to her
and that she doesn't that it doesn't ruin her life. To have come forward
and given her real name. I would hope that if she isn't able to
produce the evidence, but she still holds herself out as sort of being the
conduit leading us to a new era, that people would call her out on
that. But yeah, either way, I think that that she has promised
she's going to go back by the end of the year, and I'm hoping
that one way or another, this controversy is going to be resolved by then.
Like either either she like pulls through takes a selfie with the lavender mantis
and like we're all gonna have to buy our drinks, or she says like
I was tricked and I was wrong and I'm sorry for having led you on
this wild use chase, or or she isn't able to produce everything and doubles
down and says, well, actually, the real aliens were the friends we
made along the way. Also buy my book and and people like see that
for what it is and stop listening to her. But either way, I
like, those are the three options I think are on the table, And
I think no matter what what happens, it's going to be over quickly enough
that I don't think it's worth damaging relationships permanently, Like I don't even if
you disagree with someone on this, even if you think someone is being a
huge jerk about this, Like I I think that a lot of people who
normally see eye to eye on this subject are sort of being driven apart by
this controversy. Like there are people who are themselves experiencers who don't believe her
because her story doesn't ring true to them, or they think it's too similar
to other claims that have turned out to have been made for abusive reasons.
And there are some people who are not usually into WU but are like,
like, don't be mean to her. She's she'll produce it or she won't.
So I don't think that the normal lines of argument on you Twitter are
necessarily the same ones being drawn here, And so I don't think it's worth
severing ties with someone you've been friends with over this one very unusual event.
I've got I've got three things I want to ask you about. Well,
first thing, the first thing is a proclamation I have volunteered to go.
So I just want to say that, Nathan, make sure you take my
make sure you take my last name off that thing, and just leave DJ,
I don't want to be anyone I volunteer to go with you, Angulie.
So I just want to say, that's where that's where I'm at homegirl,
and I'll provide security for you too. Okay, Now, I'm definitely
she's not gonna let me go. But I was going to ask you.
First of all. Before I ask you, I didn't know that other experiences
hers didn't believe her. But I want to. I mean, yeah,
like like there's something to do, and there's some that don't like. It's
just very very very wide opinions on her. Lots of the most common one,
I think is the most common opinion I think I've seen is people who
just sort of want to wait and see what she produces. I think I've
seen very few people who are one hundred percent on board right now, but
I have I've seen at least a couple of people who were supportive of her
who have since shifted because they feel like the way she's conducted herself on social
media hasn't inspired a lot of confidence. I don't think, yeah, but
I kind of yield to Nathan with that, like there's and he and I
have this discussion. I think the day I just did the day that you
introduced me to Angelie because I was on AVER. I said, you know,
I wasn't that day. But it's a few days later I said,
I don't think there's a way to tell this story and not say if this
has let's just say that, can we agree amongst the triumvirate that sits here
where Caesar, Pompe, Magnus, Mark Antony, if this is this within
the realm of possibility? Sure? Yes, okay, So if it's within
the realm of possibility, I submit to you off of Nathan. In the
back of what Nathan said, there's no way to present this story to a
person whom you don't know personally, so not your daughter, her husband,
whatever, where it's not going to sound absolutely crazy. Mh. Is there
a way where it would sound absolutely nuts? I think the only there are
degrees of crazy, I suppose, but the only way that so it's sort
of like a it's almost like a court case in a sense, like the
more evidence that you could provide, the more likely that it would be a
real thing. Right so, right now we only have uh, hearsay testimony.
You know, we don't have any sort of tangible evidence of any kind
other than her testimony, And so if she were to come back and say,
well, I actually I have a you know, here's the here's the
full name and address of the of Wayne and Trish or whatever. You know,
Here's where I went, Here's how it here's you can see it's adjacent
to the mountain, you can that would be something that would add another layer
of credibility to the story. I do think it's interesting that she has family
who have They have not been vocally as far as I can tell, and
I have only recently also heard that she had a daughter on Twitter, but
I haven't heard of any instance where they are coming out in opposition to her
story. So that brings another layer of credibility to it. That if she
has shared this, she's put herself out there, she's put her family name
out there. If they haven't come forward and said, you know, we
really need to take care of of Angula here, you know. I mean,
I don't think I would come forwardy like, even if I didn't believe
the story, Like, I don't think i'd spontaneously go on Twitter and be
like, guys, my mom is nuts, Like I think I would.
Well, I guess yeah, that entirely. Well, I think it depends
though, in the sense that you know, what what what is at stake?
I suppose, right, you know, I think you have to answer
that that question. If if it's just the disappointment of some Twitter people,
you know, maybe that's not a big deal, and you're right, it's
not worth you know, kind of putting yourself out there. But if it's
more than that, if it's somebody who uh, you know, is making
literal plans this year to do X y Z based on the imminent disclosure of
whatever it is. You know, they're spending money on it, they're changing
their will and testament to you know, to to whatever is going to happen
that they think will happen. You know, there are all these things that
the people will do, and so you know, what responsibility do you have
to those people, uh, to prevent them from making those large decisions if
you happen to have knowledge that it's a fraud, you know, well,
I'd have to wrestle with that. She obviously, but you know, I
mean, in her mind, this this this happened. I mean, so,
I mean, there's no doubt in her mind. But what I was
going to ask Lampy regarding experiencers, is if you think that somebody sees a
being because for example, like Terry Lovelace describes a being that looks very similar
to the being that that Anjeli described. I'm sure you've read different accounts.
Do you find that that one could be causal in the other that somebody if
something And I'm not saying this is necessarily applies to Angelie or any but there
are several people who said they've seen Mantis's. Do you believe that that if
this is something that is happening within your mind, making it very real that
you're getting it from somebody else, you think that's possible. Yeah, Like,
it's very difficult because, like like you said, a lot of accounts
report beings that look very similar like Mantis's, tall, whites, grays like
those are the three I remember her mentioning in her breast conferends, and those
are three very common things to report. And it's like, is everyone reporting
this because these are the aliens that exist? Or are they reporting this because
they're ripping off each other? And I don't think that there's an easy way
to answer this question without more evidence. I will say that for me,
I don't think there's a way to report an experience like Angelly claims that doesn't
sound crazy, like even if it happened. But I do think there's room
to scrutinize sort of the way she conducts herself after the experience, so for
example, like the way she talks to people on Twitter and read it,
sort of the way she like plans the event. Because one thing I keep
coming back to is that if this is true, it is extremely important,
like it is the most important thing that is going on in the world right
now, because it has consequences for all of humanity. And she's and she's
saying that she's going to have this expedition and that she is committed to doing
that, and she posts, she posts affirmation that she's channeling from the beings
allegedly. But I don't get the sense of urgency that I think the situation
would merit, and I think that she is I think she's overly invested in
worrying about really trivial stuff. Like I saw that she unblocked everyone that she
blocked, and I respect that I but up until that point, she was
getting increasingly frazzled, lashing out at people on Twitter and on Reddit, even
like banning people from her subreddit for like stuff that was fairly minor in terms
of questioning her. And and on the one hand, I get that she's
under a lot of scrutiny, and some people have been very mean in the
way that they've criticized her, Like I've seen people make make comments like accusing
her of faking needing a wheelchair, which I don't think is ever appropriate to
accuse someone of. I've seen people like make comments like like oh, like,
oh she's so like oh she's hot. Too bad, she's crazy,
like like don't like, don't be sexist guys, like what would your mother
think? But but at the same time, like you were you met aliens,
you are currently channeling them, like they have chosen you to lead us
into our ascension to a higher density, And you are worried about people being
mean to you on the internet, like I mean, the last time somebody
had revelations of this significance, they got crucified. And you're upset because somebody
with two hundred followers on Twitter and an x files profile picture is saying unkind
things about you, like I I think that I don't know I feel like
if I can't say what I would do in this situation, obviously because it's
so beyond anything that anyone's like confirmed to have experienced, but I think that
I would expect her to be so singularly focused on this history changing event and
not getting bogged down in internet drama and not dragging her feet on and building
the team just sort of like getting out there, getting these extraterrestrials to I
come to the press conference with her and announce their intentions to the world,
and like hit the ground running on what we need to do to ascend to
our higher density before we are all sol Like, come on, and I
want to say, I want to say that the first part of that story
that I've found problematic is what you did is about the excavation of the tunnel.
I don't know if she asked him specifically, did someone from your company
come out and help you do this? I don't see why be unreasonable that
he couldn't have had people that work from him come out and help him make
that tunnel. I would find that problematic that one man could make that if
she was walking through a tunnel for five to ten minutes, and of course
if this happened, I mean, your your sense of time is going to
be very skewed at that moment. You know, you're not going to know
how long you were in that tunnel. I mean it could have been a
minute, it could have been five minutes, you know for all. But
I agree with you that I found that problematic. But that may not have
been something that she drilled down on with him, you get it, excavation
metaphor. Sorry. So I actually asked her at the press conference a question
about Wayne because I was curious how he had gotten in touch with the etis
because he Her story is that like he saw the UFO, he was curious
about it. He went out every night to try and contact it, and
then eventually the occupants of the UFO told him, like we're in the mountain,
go dig to the center of the mountain. And so I asked her,
like how he established contact with them, Like did he do something to
make the first move or did they just reach out to him via conscious contact
like she describes, And she said that she and she told me that she
hadn't really discussed in depth those questions with him, like she was just sort
of like she heard the story it was immediately eager to go to the mountain,
which I understand that, but I don't really get why they didn't talk
more about it after they got back from the mountain. And she's also indicated
that she hasn't been in touch with him for a long time at this point,
which also seems very strange, Like this seems like being two of the
only people who know about extraterrestrials having a presence on Earth seems like the sort
of sperience that creates a bond that you don't just like you just go away.
So yeah, questions, man, I mean no, I love I
love that. I love that analysis, you know. And for me,
and and DJ will tell you this, like I, this story for me
is the the importance of this story isn't about Angeli. It's about experiencers generally,
And so for me, it's how how does the community that is already
willing to accept a lot of things in this subject that most in the general
public may not be willing to accept? How does this community accept experience or
testimony? Uh? And and what are the what are the checklists of things
that the community needs to see in order for for or us to say yeah,
this is a credible person. I trust this person's experience like a lah
Wit Whitley Streeber or Travis Walton or other big name experiencers who who have recounted
whatever it is, you know what gives those experiences and stories credibility against this
particular story. You know. So I think we needed, we needed,
we need a conversation about this type of criteria because going forward, it's possible
that there will be more stories like this. And so do we, you
know, to to what extent do we give airtime, our tweet time or
whatever it is to the next story and spend energy and effort kind of following
it, dissecting it, whatever it is, as opposed to letting it just
kind of come and go and wash over us, you know, as a
community. And you know, we're weighing this against you know, the government
disclosure components as do we have a chat you know, in the on the
on the live stream. I'll put it up here from Gabriel. So hey,
Gabriel, you know he's saying he's saying that, you know, she's
running interference against the government disclosure narratives. So the kind of a competing thing.
But you know, I would argue that the experiencer stories are always running
some kind of counter narrative to UH state truth. You know, So,
you know, how do we weigh those two things in the community. How
do you weigh them? You know, how do you weigh government Louis el
Azando stuff against experience or stuff? You know, is alezondo more more important
or are they equally important? In how do you make that decision? Honestly,
I don't think that I've ever really thought about it in terms of like
who's more important? Like I will say that I don't see it as a
competition. I think that some people on UFO Twitter who are on more the
nuts and bolts government disclosure side tend to not all of them, but some
of them tend to be concerned about platforming experiencers too much because they are concerned
about harming the credibility of this topic with the mainstream. And I don't think
that we should think of it that way. First of all, Like,
despite what may have been the original intentions of the hashtag, I genuinely do
not think there is anyone on UFO Twitter who is not already interested in this
topic, Like this is not the platform that we use to reach out to
the normies. This is people who are already interested in UFOs UAPs talking to
each other. Like you may not like that, that's the state of things,
but that is the state of things. So I don't think there's any
reason to censor ourselves in terms of what we discuss. And also I think
that when we talk about Angelie, we shouldn't conflate her too much with the
average experiencer, because I think that some people see the way that she has
been treated on social media and react very negatively, not because they support her,
but because they don't want to see experienceers broadly treated badly and like treated
like they have ulterior motives or they're lying, or they're crazy or whatever.
But I think that Angelie's story is very different than someone who just says I
saw something or I was contacted telepathically under these circumstances, Like she is specifically
claiming that she is currently channeling these beings, that she has been chosen to
be their mouthpiece as we go forward and do what we must to survive as
a species. And that is when you put yourself out as a leader,
you have more responsibility to the community than if you're just saying talking about something
that happened to you. And and also like she's she's not like just some
like teenager or some housewife who had an experience, like she worked in she
worked in military intelligence. Like she's like yeah, like she's she's not like
she can handle herself. Like like, I don't think we need to worry.
I don't think that we need to assume that treating her with scrutiny and
treating the average experiencer with kindness and open minded mindedness are mutually exclusive things.
Wow, a heavy handed, leather bound Lamby Angel, that's what Lamby is
trying to say. Butter coughing up butter Cup, all right? And and
you know what is what was cool about that is you weren't saying what you
expect somebody else is expecting you to say, or trying to meet a certain
standard. You were coming through as this is authentically how I feel about this,
and I'm gonna say it, and I don't care what anybody thinks about
it, and I respect that, I really do. That was great.
Let's talk about your book, Homegirl's Nathan take my name take my name off
there. I don't people, I'm gonna get it you'll have to it's too
late, all right, go ahead? Oh yeah, Well, so I
finished the like first of all, like it's a very like lighthearted, like
sci fi adventure book. Like it's not like a serious literary examination of the
of alien abductions or anything. It's just a girl who gets abducted by aliens
and goes on adventures and it's fun, I hope. But I finished the
rough draft back in June. I started revising it a couple of weeks ago,
and I'm currently working on that and hoping to have my first round of
revisions done by the end of this month. Then I'm going to send the
draft to some some more friends, and then I'm gonna revise some more and
hoping to be done done by the end of this year. And then after
that, I'm going to start querrying it. Like I'm hoping that, like
I'm going to try to get it traditionally published, but like if that doesn't
work out, I'll reevaluate. But yeah, it's just it's been fun.
Are you an experiencer? I am not, No, I just I got
into this topic when I was eight or nine years old because I was with
my mom at her boyfriend's house and they watched signs and I watched it with
them and it was super creepy and interesting. And then I and then someone
gave me a book about UFOs and aliens that I read, and so that
was my introduction to the topic. I am. I am not an experiencer,
never seen one like outside No, okay, okay, that's awesome.
And Nathan has so I'm the only one that's seen one. Yeah. Yeah,
oh he's kind of a good deal. Yeah, I'm a big deal.
Now. Mine was so brief, like you know, we were discussing
it on the big phone home the other day and Louise his experience was minutes
long like much. Mine was seconds, you know, and so many people
from where you know, I'm actually feel validated because so many people from the
Hudson Valley saw UFOs and so but I didn't know that for not talking about
it for thirty years or forty years, whatever the hell it was. So
I'm fifty four, so you know, I was fourteen when it happened.
Anyway, all right, so what is Let me just ask you the title
of your book before we wrap up here. The working title is A Lift
out of Town, which nice. It's like mmas that I have a title.
Normally titling things is like the hardest part of writing for me. But
that's the title right now. It could change, but that's that is the
title as far as you're concerned. I know, I know, I know
one person who's buying it. Did you have anything else you wanted to hit
on before we go? Lampy uh No, I think we pretty much covered
everything like we went over on Julie again. We talked about sort of the
state of UFO, Twitter, anything else y'all want to say? Nathan,
do you have anything? I'm good man, This has been a great chat
with you. Appreciate you taking time out to speak with us on such short
notice. At that was great. I had so much fun. Thank you
for inviting me. I love Yeah, definitely, You're welcome to come back
if you want to talk about something, you see something that you want to
bring up. I love to share the platform, which is how you know
Nathan got on it. I'm happy to you know. Dan Warren's been on
a couple of times. Luis's menus has been on a couple of times.
Andy mcgrillan's been on at least two or three times, so you know,
I'm all about it and I really appreciate it. Again, I want to
thank you for your authenticity because it was I think it was very obvious to
Nathan and I when your passions were aroused about specific aspects. No, and
you know what that that's great. I mean, that's that's what it's all
about. I mean, it's all about connecting with people and being able to
tell what you feel and how you feel. You guys saw me do it
it about Mick West a little while ago, you know, and you did
it, you know, and so that's what it's really all about. And
I'm so happy that we were able to be here and experience that with you.
I really mean that. Okay, thank you. It was great to
be here. Thank you. Girlfriend. We're gonna do it again. We
got to do another one of those Twitter spaces. I actually said a professional
on there. You know, I actually sounded like I knew what I was
talking about. For change, you know, it was looking for the next
one, for sure. It was cool party people. We are calling all
beings. That is sa At Lampey nineteen forty seven, the same year the
Air Force was born, and the same year of Roswell Air Force Birthdays coming
up in a couple of months. That is Nathan at a Wave Soul on
Twitter. One of my latest blessings in life over the last couple of months
has been Nathan joining and agreeing to be my podcast partner and putting so much
work into this. We'll bring you more guests. Who knows who we're gonna
have on next man, You know, I really want Lieutenant McMillan. There's
so many people I want to have on and none of them are the same.
So yeah, it's a big family. It is so for Lambing nineteen
forty seven, For Nathan at a Wave Soul, I am DJ saying peace
out, one love and we'll see you down the road.