WEBVTT

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And welcome back people to calling all
beings. I'm your host, DJ san

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Marco here on a Thursday night with
my vacationing co host is back the man,

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you know, the man that you're
going to see his pretty face for

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the first time. Part of people
put your hands together for Nathan A wave

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soul. What's up everybody? Man? It is good to have you back.

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Nathan. My sounding board was gone, so I would make a sound,

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but it wouldn't come back. It's
like yelling into a cave and there's

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no echo. It's terrible. We'll
get there. But you know what I

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want to say is one of the
cool things about UFO Twitter is that you

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meet and my friend it's about to
join us here in a second, our

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special guest. You meet these interesting
people and you have conversations. And I

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don't know that there are other sections
of Twitter that are necessarily like that.

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And so I met Lampy talking about
Angulie because she posts did a whole bunch

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of uh basically uh. I think
it was a transcript of something. Get

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her to remind me because now I
forgot. But we ended up having a

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great conversation, and so I'd said, you know what, I'd really like

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to have you on tonight and talk
so party people put your hands together for

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LAMPI one nine four seven. Hello. Yeah. The threat I made was

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basically just like a compilation of all
the links that you'd need to get caught

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up on the drama, because by
then there was a lot of it and

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there has only been more since.
But new people are coming in the uf

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to Twitter every day, and even
people who are regulars like aren't on constantly,

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so things move fast and people really
need a way to catch up on

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everything. Absolutely, And are there
cooler glasses on UFO Twitter than what you're

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wearing right now? I don't think
there is. I mean, I'm putting

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out a challenge. If anyone thinks
they can top you with us, let's

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go until then, I'm declaring myself
a champion. I love it. Natasha

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Domingoz, check it out. Next
time you're on the show. You're gonna

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have to up your game, girlfriend, all right? Anyway, so you

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know, there are a lot of
interesting people today. I actually heard somebody

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who was asking asking Angelie if she
would go on the Stevens Somebody Show and

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answer hardball questions, and from reading
his tweet, he sounded like a breathless,

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petulant child. And it's like,
Oh, you think if she goes

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on Steven Casessa's show, The Hardball
Tough Guy, do you think she's gonna

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answer something different than what she answered? What's he gonna ask her that she's

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gonna say differently what he's gonna say. I don't believe. I don't believe

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you. You're a liar, Like, what is he gonna say? That's

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right? So talk to me.
Yeah, I don't know. I know

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that a lot of people are getting
like there's always been skepticism of Angelie,

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but I feel like it's just only
been ramping up since about a week after

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the press conference because people are wanting
to know when she's going out to the

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desert and who the team is going
to be. And so I understand the

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frustration, but you're right, people
can be a little bit mean about it.

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Like I gave a very respectful response
and that guy like blocked me or

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something, and it's like I just
said, look, you know you're going

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to know, and she'll she'll broadcast
it probably after the fact. You're not

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going to know that she's going.
Once she's going, she's going to tell

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the appropriate people she's going to go, and then when she comes back,

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she'll report her findings. What will
be the point of them telling people ahead

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of time so that you can have
people out on the road with binoculars and

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be nuts. Yeah, well,
I know that she did say that she

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was going to do a poll on
UFO Twitter where we could nominate someone to

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go, which I don't know if
she's still going to do that, but

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I hope she does because I'm very
interested to see who would get picked.

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Me me, me, me could
be a free for all. Yeah,

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yeah, I mean I think she
definitely need I mean she needs it,

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honestly, and we can get into
this. I think we could actually get

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into that discussion later. The first
thing I really wanted to ask you,

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Lampy, and I've scripted out all
these questions, which is to say,

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one is what made Nathan loves it
because he studied for class. You know,

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I'm extemporaneous, you know when I
do this. So what made you

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go to the Anguli press conference in
the first place? What drew you to

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that particular event? So I was
kind of late to the angel party,

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Like a lot of people have been
following her on Twitter, and don Reddit

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since she first appeared back in March
twenty twenty one, but I didn't hear

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about her until like the end of
July because actually, one of the skeptical

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accounts that I follow retweeted her announcement
of the press conference and was like,

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is there anyone in the DC area
who's going to cover this? And I

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was like, I'm in the DC
area. I could go that sounds cool.

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Like at that point, I didn't
have any opinions on her, and

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like I I went and read her
first Reddit post, but I hadn't gone

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very deep down the rabbit hole.
I just thought that was an area it's

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going to be a nice August day, whether she's telling the truth or whether

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she's starting a cult or whether this
is a styop, Like whatever's going on,

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it's not going to be boring,
so like, why not? So

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I went down there and it ended
up that she did end up posting her

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live stream eventually, but at the
time she was a little late getting out

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started, so a lot of people
were really eager to see what was going

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on and started following the thread I
made after getting there, So that was

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very exciting and yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, that's how I had

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heard of I had heard her name
and heard something tangentially about the story,

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but I didn't really know anything.
I hadn't delved into it whatsoever until after

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reading your posts. So that was
my entry way into the phenomenon that has

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become anguli about the phenomenon, the
phenomenon of the phenomena. And then and

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then I, you know, I
found her to be a very credible person,

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and you know, I you know
what I'm gonna let I'm gonna let

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Nathan have it now. I mean, I find like, I feel like

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you're you know, you're holding a
healthy bit of skepticism here, is am

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I? Right? Yeah, I
think that that's fair. Okay, Nathan,

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go for all? Right? Yeah? So where to begin? All

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right? So I think what I'm
interested in is where this story intersects with

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the UFO twitter verse, you know, broadly, right. So, I

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know you've been kind of following along
in the UFO Twitter since I think last

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year that's what looked like you joined
Twitter based on your profile, and you

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know, I'm curious kind of what
caused you to kind of jump into that

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space, you know, if you
don't mind me asking, was this kind

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of your first Twitter account, second
Twitter account, and I'm asking because it

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wasn't my first Twitter account that I
dedicated to UFO Twitter, So curious kind

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of what got you into the space
and what kept you coming back to the

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UFO Twitter verse. Yeah, so
it wasn't my first Twitter account period,

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but it was my first UFO Twitter
account. Basically I start mid getting back

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into UFO's late twenty nineteen early twenty
twenty, Like, I was very interested

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in UFOs and aliens when I was
a kid, and then just sort of

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got away from it as I got
older. And then a couple of years

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ago, I just finished up my
studies, I'd gotten a job, I

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moved to a new apartment, and
I'd sort of like hit all of the

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adulting milestones and was now like,
Okay, what do I want to do

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for fun again? And so I
started like sort of rediscovering what my goals

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were, and one of them was
that I wanted to write a novel.

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And I was like, well,
what am I going to write my novel

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about. I'll have about aliens.
You used to like aliens. So yeah,

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I started writing this novel in twenty
nineteen, and at the same time,

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I started sort of getting back into
reading about UFOs and aliens and alien

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abductions. And as part of that, I discovered ufo Twitter. And when

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I first made my account back in
October twenty twenty, it was solely for

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like lurking purposes, Like, I
did not have any intention of engaging with

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anybody or tweeting because I had a
very negative opinion of Twitter and the drama

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that ensues there. So my only
goal was I'm going to follow some people.

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I can turn scrolling through social media
into something semi productive, and that's

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going to be that. That's why
my display name is very unoriginal. That's

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why my username is just like a
cartoon character from the Brave ol Toaster plus

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the Year of the Robber, Like, because I did not think that this

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was going to be a real Twitter
account, So I started following people,

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and on ufo Twitter, as you
know, there's a very big culture of

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following back. So I started getting
followers even though I was not posting anything.

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And around the point that my ufo
Twitter account started having more followers than

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my real Twitter account, even though
I had literally never said anything, I

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started to I started to engage a
little more and it just became very fun.

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I met really neat peace people.
I I thought that the discussions were

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very interesting, and I've just sort
of gotten deeper and deeper into it over

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the past year. That's awesome.
Yeah, And I feel like that's a

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probably probably a pretty common experience in
terms of folks that take that path and

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then they kind of take another step
and other steps, and all of a

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sudden they find themselves in this village
of people that they kind of like hanging

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out with. And that that's certainly
been my experience as well. You know,

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for all of the kind of follows
that you have in UFO Twitter,

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you know, how would you describe
that the spectrum that that you followed?

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You try to follow a broad spectrum
of of folks in this space. Do

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you try to follow folks that kind
of lean more toward the nuts in bold

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side, or more toward the experiencer
side, or you know other aspects?

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You know, what kind of population
do you do you keep? I try

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to follow a diverse number of account
I follow some people who are more nuts

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and bolts. I follow people who
are more on sort of the spiritual side.

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I follow people who just are sort
of hanging out and seem like meat

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people, and I follow skeptics.
I follow basically everyone. My only real

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carteria is like if the posts,
if the things they tweet look interesting,

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and if they don't seem like a
massive jerk, then that's that's pretty much

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my only criteria for who I will
follow. What I mean more in the

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category of nuts or bolts as far
as you're concerned, Do you really want

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me to answer that? Probably not? Probably, let's okay, Yeah,

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go ahead, go ahead. Well, no, I mean, I'm just

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trying to figure out what is the
area. I think another way of phrasing

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Nathan's question is is there something that's
more fascinating aspect of this more so than

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the other and that may be what
you're going to write about in your book

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or maybe well I would assume it
would have to be what you're writing about

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in your book the aspect of what
aspect is most interesting. Yeah, So

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when I came in, like I
was pretty much exclusively focused on the extraterrestrial

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hypothesis and aliens, specifically alien abductions, because that's that's what's in my book.

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And I think I just aliens,
I think are neat and that it's

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not terribly intellectual of me to say, but that's the aliens are cool,

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So I wanted to look up stuff
related to aliens. But I think that

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having been in this space for the
past year has made me sort of more

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open to and interested in alternative hypotheses
about the phenomenon and just sort of different

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aspects of this subject. So,
yeah, it's been an interesting so the

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whole aspect of the ocean and the
fact that there's, you know, at

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least some evidence that that maybe they're
already here, or we're here before us,

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and or are revealing themselves now due
to things they see happening in the

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natural environment geopolitically, perhaps with nukes. Do you is that what changed your

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mind? I don't know if it's
that specifically. I think more of what

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has changed my mind is sort of
seeing people talk about like the theory that

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sort of the phenomenon we're seeing now
is the same as what has been behind

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like various weird stuff that we have
seen throughout history, and that just sort

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of the explanations we come up for
it are different depending on our culture.

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But but I do find that the
stuff of the uso stuff interesting. Yeah,

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I mean that blew my mind like
I did not have in my mind

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ever until I don't know, like
lou Elisondo started talking about, oh wow,

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these things are coming out of the
water, and then Dave Fraber recounted

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that one of the navy divers that
was grabbing up a torpedo and trying to

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pull it up with a helicopter had
seen something. So that really blew my

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mind because I had never thought.
I had always thought in terms of extraterrestrial

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coming from other planets, and now
there's some evidence that that's not the case.

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So we have to look at that. There's both and and then you

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know, Anglie also talking about the
fact that there's some beings that are quite

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looking to be friendly toward us,
looking to help us transcend. In those

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four she was talking about that aren't
friendly. Do you remember hearing about that?

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Yeah, I do remember that.
Kind of surprised that there isn't more

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talk about that. Actually seems like
might be important if that's something that's going

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on, you think, yeah,
yeah, it's a I find that,

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at least in the folks that I
follow, the focus generally is more on

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the positive aspects of it. You
know that there is more of the hopeful

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you know kind of selvafic quality that
UFOs represent to people. And yeah,

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it may not be all that great
if we really look at every different aspect

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of it. And I find that
that voice tends to kind of get drowned

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out a little bit too. There
are folks who do bring it up,

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but they seem to get outnumbered quite
a bit from the love and light crowd,

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if you will, well, but
if we're objective about it. Even

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Angelie, who would count herself among
that, also said they told her there

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are ones that are not friendly.
So there's a person who is spreading as

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much love and light as possible.
That's coming from yoga teacher, you know,

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is also saying that there are beings
that she was told that are not

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friendly. So if people don't want
to buy that, and they believe her,

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but then they don't want to take
they want to just like xcisee that

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sliver of it out. I mean, we to be honest, you know,

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I get you know you you you
hate you know. I don't want

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this podcast to be like a continuous
refrain of Louis Elazondo and Ajulie, although

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it probably will be, but I
like but I like it. Louise is

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very measured when he all look at
that. Now, that's class right there,

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and man, put the camera back. Now, I'll just keep doing

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it, right. I'm kind of
jealous right now. Okay, I am

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jealous right now too. I just
had getting over a stomach problem. Yeah

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cocktail. Yeah. No. This
is my first live podcast recording, so

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I need an excuse if I say
something stupid. There you go. You

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know what. I've been doing it
for since twenty ten. I've been saying

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things stupid on airon I'm still here. So but yeah, I liked it.

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Louis says all things. You know, you have to say this is

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not an existential threat. But if
you say it it can't be because they

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have the power to destroy us,
then I'm sorry. I would have to

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disagree with those people. I'm a
lov and like person. I do believe

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in what Angeli said about transcension uh
and being better humans to one another and

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finding a better way to communicate than
what we currently use, which, by

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the way, has devolved from this
type of communication to text. There are

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people that don't even want to talk
to you now, They just want to

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text you. If you try to
call them, they won't answer, so

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Seriously, that's a that's a that's
a devolution of communication, not an expansion

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or broadening or transcending of of our
of our communication as humans in my mind,

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So if you, but you have
to leave open the possibility. And

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by the way, uh, somebody
who who espouses that opinion said it for

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for as much. So yeah,
like I am, I definitely think that

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asking like are the beings friendly or
not is the wrong question because like what

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if they asked us are humans friendly
or not? Like, how would you

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even answer that? And we're just
one species, So I don't think it

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makes sense to think that if they
are aliens, all of them are going

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to be one thing or the other
completely. Is there a an abduction or

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a contact narrative from someone that resonates
with you the most, or is there

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a couple of those? Well,
I've always found the Aerial School incident absolutely

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fascinating just because of just the sheared
number of people who were there and who

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have maintained the story as they grew
up and years later. I'm really excited

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for the I think it's James Fox
is making a documentary about it, and

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the Phenomena documentary was fantastic and I'm
really excited about this one. I think

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that a lot of people don't know
about this incident, because I certainly didn't

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know about it until I started getting
into the subject more and more. So

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I think that once it's mainstream,
it's going to get a lot of attention.

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Right. Yeah. I think that
that Aerial school piece from his movie

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The Phenomenon, that that that segment
is really what probably humanized the topic the

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most, and for folks that were
a little bit on the fence on it,

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that one story, maybe even more
so than the Nenets, is the

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one that really kind of grabs you
and pulls you in because of how personal

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that that testimony is from those kids
and how dynamic that was. So I

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think that that's like a There are
some of these sort of gateway cases,

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right that really are very compelling and
that that draw you in and maybe draw

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you in for different reasons. So
Nimmet's is a great example, Aeriel is

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a great example. And then we
have the experiencer cases, theduction cases.

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And I know you did a thread
Travis Walton, love for you to talk

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about that a little bit. And
two I think I want you to touch

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on if you wouldn't mind, Like
as a writer, you know, is

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your approach to Twitter and some of
these great threads that you've compiled, Is

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that a drive that you have because
because of the kind of fragmentary nature of

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Twitter itself, to kind of bring
this stuff together and make it a little

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bit more coherent. Yeah, that's
definitely because because, like I said,

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news moves very quickly on Twitter,
and I have definitely I am someone who

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has to know what's going on,
Like curiosity will drive me insane, and

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so I absolutely hate when I see
a subtweet and I have to spend the

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next three hours like searching every keyword
I can think of, like asking my

264
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friends, just like being the Twitter
fbi, just so that I can find

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out what the gossip is. So
anytime that I am in a position where

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I see people asking about something and
I know what's going on and it's something

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that's like newsworthy enough that I don't
feel like a gossip brag making a thread

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about it, then I want to
do that. I think that it's it's

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fun for me, and I hope
that it satisfies people's curiosity and saves them

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time. Absolutely. I mean,
well, your your threads are super helpful.

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I mean, and I find that
out for everybody that spends people that

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spend the time to compile all of
this disparate information into into a format that

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people can digest as opposed to,
like you said, kind of going through

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the forest of breadcrumbs that are out
there and trying to make sense of it

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all. I mean, it's a
it's a public service quite frankly, so

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you know, thank you, thank
you for doing it. Yeah, it's

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It's also been really nice to like
have sort of found a way that I

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can add to UFO Twitter and contribute
something because like I'm not a researcher,

279
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I'm not a scientist. Like I
I some of the stuff that people will

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talk about like makes my brain meld. If like you could ask me now,

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like what the hell is going on
with TTSA, and I was like,

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I don't know. There's Lou and
there's Tomm DeLong and like the government's

283
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involved somehow. But but but when
there are things that I can write something

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about that might help, then it
makes me feel like I am I am

285
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here for a reason absolutely. Yeah, Like me countering Mick West has turned

286
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into like a cottage industry. I'm
just kidding. I forgot how many rounds

287
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.319
we were on with that, like
round five, six, You know,

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I've got I've got so much.
I just have to have the proper platform.

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And it's like, I would invite
him on here, but I think

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it would be rude to invite him
on here and then insult him. And

291
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that's just but and it would he
would people would take it as an insult.

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But I want to just say that. You know that term when someone

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says with all due respect and then
they assault you, but in the truest

294
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sense of the word, with all
due respect to you. This is what

295
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:10.519
I think, and depending upon how
you respect others, is the way that

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I'm gonna respect you. So if
Mick is talking about fighter pilots don't know

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what they're doing, don't know what
they're looking at. I don't think this

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person flew the airplane correctly. I
don't think they upgrade their sensor correctly.

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And I know from aviation background what
it takes to do that, and I

300
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know I'm not even on the level
of these guys. And then some guy

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who made video games is doing that, then I think he's not giving them

302
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the respect their due. So if
I say Mick with all due respect,

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I mean that in that help me
phrase this, Nathan, I mean that

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in the most honest sense of that
phrase. Very yeah, the sincerest.

305
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I do mean that, if you're
disrespecting them, I'm gonna and I know

306
00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:02.319
what your credentials are. I'm gonna
to call those into question. But I'll

307
00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:08.960
save the Mickwest for later. I
didn't like to be charitable, like I

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00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:15.039
do think that Micwest tends to come
across better when he's either quoted in a

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00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.559
long form article or when he appears
on podcasts, Like I really do think

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that when you were on Twitter and
when you were like saying the first thing

311
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.640
that comes to mind in less than
two forty characters, like you are not

312
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:33.079
your best self and you are probably
actually your worst self. So okay,

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but when you say that, you're
viewing that through the prism of somebody who

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00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:45.079
doesn't know aviation. So if he
says something and he's really smart, like

315
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.920
if you're going to say who's smarter, Mick West or DJ, Mick West

316
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.839
is going to be up here and
I'm going to be down here. But

317
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.160
with four thousand hours of military flying, then DJ is going to be up

318
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:00.119
here and Mick West is going to
be down here, h okay when we're

319
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:04.079
talking about evaluating, well, first
of all, I know enough. Like

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00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:08.880
if you said to me, dj
what did you think about what Chad Underwood

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or Dave frav or Alex Dietrich did, I'm gonna say I don't know because

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I wasn't trained in their mission set. I didn't go through the thousands hours

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of tactics, ground training, flight
training, past check rides, become an

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instructor, become an evaluator, go
through top gut all the things that they

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00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.519
did. You have no idea what
it takes to do that, right,

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00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:37.400
So, but I do I have. And so when somebody like Mick West,

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the lay person goes, wow,
he's you know, he sounds pretty

328
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.240
reasonable, yes, because you don't
know what it took to do what they

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00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.960
did. But they know that he's
a buffoon, and that's why they don't

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00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:52.160
come on air with him. You
know. Dietrich went on and was very

331
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.240
charitable and very friendly with him,
and Chris Laedo was too. Dave Fraver

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00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:03.240
won't be the guy who does the
Fighter Pilot podcast on Apple Vincent Jello Alo.

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00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.799
I guarantee he's not going to be, and I wouldn't be because I'm

334
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:14.039
gonna say, you are not qualified
to critique that person's flying. None,

335
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:18.319
no qualifications. So that's the respect
that you're due for saying that. And

336
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:21.319
there are people out there like Lampy
who goes, oh, well, you

337
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:23.920
know, geez, sounds like he's
pretty thoughtful and reasonable. Yes, but

338
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:29.599
meanwhile he put out a tweet today
with his living room sofa sinks. I

339
00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:33.039
did like that one. Yeah,
okay, so you're questioning them again when

340
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:37.799
they told you how they identified a
white object against a dark blue sea from

341
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.599
twenty thousand feet. That's what they're
trained to do. It's not what I

342
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:47.000
was trained to do. I was
trained in tactical, low level flying.

343
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That's not what fighter pilots are trained
in doing. They're not comfortable at two

344
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:53.559
hundred and fifty feet like I am
flying for an hour and a half in

345
00:26:53.599 --> 00:27:00.160
the mountains, and I'm not comfortable
diving, you know, diving down the

346
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:04.599
ocean at an object like Fraver did. Right, It's it's a very specific

347
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.279
skill you wouldn't catch. Okay,
to give an example, you hear what

348
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:14.279
Mick said, I couldn't get a
pilot who I flew with to say what

349
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he said. You know what,
that pilot would say, those guys are

350
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:22.559
the experts in that man. That's
not my that's not my area. I

351
00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:26.400
mean, I could, I could
get you a high time pilot that went

352
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:30.200
to Air Force Weapons school that would
say that if we asked them to critique

353
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.920
those guys, they would look at
it. They'd listen to it, they'd

354
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:37.079
read it, they'd listened to the
interview, and they'd say, I they

355
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.759
saw what they saw. I can't. But Mick West is okay to say,

356
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.200
oh, yeah, those guys they
don't that make mistakes, you know,

357
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.440
right well, And it's interesting.
I think that in the absence of

358
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:53.079
good information, which you know you
could argue is a good portion of UFO

359
00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:59.880
twitter. Uh, there's there's a
vacuum of information, of quality data that

360
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:06.400
allows for tremendous amounts of speculation.
And where I think, you know,

361
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:10.559
I know you have your specific beefs. My specific beefs with him are the

362
00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:15.119
way that he takes that very little
amount of information and then extrapolates out from

363
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:21.279
that very large speculative conclusions. You
know. So I have issues with conclusions

364
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:25.240
off off of very little data,
but I have that same beef with a

365
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:29.039
lot of folks in UFO Twitter that
will take a tiny little thing and say,

366
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:32.160
well, I mean it must be
x y Z. I think that

367
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.839
that that's a little disingenuous to make
that leap. But LAMPI, I mean,

368
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:38.720
what do you think about that?
I think I'm pretty much with you

369
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:44.440
on this. Like, I agree
that mcwest seems to sort of be in

370
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:48.440
the habit of thinking up an alternate
explanation and sort of putting it forth,

371
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:53.640
even if it's not based on very
much, because he just sees it as

372
00:28:53.680 --> 00:29:03.359
inherently a better explanation than aliens.
But I think that. But I also,

373
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:07.440
like, don't think that he's like
the enemy or a terrible person because

374
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.720
of this, because, like I
think people judge him more harshly because he's

375
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.880
on the skeptical side when, like
you said, a lot of people speculate

376
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:21.480
on UFO Twitter and on when it
comes to Twitter. We all have bad

377
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:23.640
takes sometimes, Like I've had bad
takes, a lot of my friends have,

378
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.640
Like, we all tweet stuff that
isn't super well thought out, and

379
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:34.279
we're all wrong about things. But
that doesn't necessarily mean that you're not an

380
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.920
important part of the community. That's
right, and we're not on CNN doing

381
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:42.559
it though, right. No,
I want I want to stay for the

382
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:45.519
record. I want to I want
to get this actually on air. I

383
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:51.759
don't dislike Mick West. I don't
not respect him. I'm happy he's part

384
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:56.640
of the community. I don't There
are two things I think. First of

385
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.880
all, uh so, I'm happy
that he does debunk things because people will

386
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:07.000
put out a UFO video that he
is able to then find is fake,

387
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:11.359
and that is a huge service to
us. He's also apparently I don't really

388
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.640
follow his work, but he's done
that with QAnon and other anti vacs and

389
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:21.200
other conspiracy theories. So I really
thank Mick West. I must stay for

390
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:23.559
doing stuff like that. I really
appreciate that, and I think it's of

391
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.599
service to the community. What I
have a problem with is I think,

392
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:33.119
if you start at the beginning,
there's an intellectual dishonesty in the way that

393
00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:37.000
he approaches it, because he comes
out and says on camera, hey,

394
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:41.480
I just want to learn, I
just want the data. But he approaches

395
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:48.599
the subject from Okay, everybody thinks
it's this, and so I'm going to

396
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.079
try to prove that it's not that
so that's not intellectually, that's not me

397
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.880
trying to learn. If you have
a Luis Elizondo on your show, and

398
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.839
I actually have talking points about this
where he ask Luise, you know with

399
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.319
the gimbal, you know, I
think it's this glads, the glad,

400
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:07.599
glad. He's sending glad over and
over. He's saying, we had electro

401
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.839
you know, we bring in electrical
optical engineers, we brought in aerospace engineers,

402
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:17.240
we brought in pilots, We reviewed
stuff, and by the way,

403
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:22.880
Mick, we have more than what
you've seen. We have other sensor data

404
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.880
and other things, and we don't
agree with your hypothesis, to which he

405
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.079
says, yes, yes, yes, okay, So let's talk about the

406
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:34.079
Chilean Air Force. So that right
there, I'm not kidding. He digresses

407
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.359
to her relevancies. So he's intellectually
dishonest from the way he approaches it,

408
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.079
which he says, I'm trying to
learn. No, you're not trying to

409
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.119
learn. You are trying to find
one aspect of this, which is what

410
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:51.119
Lampey was alluding to that and actually, Nathan, you also alluded to it.

411
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:55.319
That one string. We want to
talk about that angle and the range,

412
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:59.599
because if they didn't get the range
right, or they didn't get the

413
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:05.000
side of it right, then maybe
we can dismiss the Princeton radar footage,

414
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:08.839
the E two radar footage, the
testimony from all of them, plus the

415
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:15.599
pilots, and then yeah, everything's
in question at this point. So that

416
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:20.839
that and when he said to Lou
also about the tic TAC, and Lou

417
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.240
came and said, yes, we
looked at this. We didn't use single

418
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:28.519
source on this. There's other data
that you haven't seen that we did see.

419
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:31.480
He still won't say. Now somebody
who's interested in learning, say,

420
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:36.160
oh wow, that's really interesting,
Lou, I should rethink this, you

421
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:37.960
know. I mean, if you've
seen things that I haven't seen in your

422
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:43.359
privy to information, I'm not.
And the pilot and it jobs is what

423
00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:45.640
the pilots testify, I might have
to change. He's not ever going to

424
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:52.359
say that, so to me,
he's starting from a dishonest place because he's

425
00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:54.200
not trying to learn. He's trying
to say, how can I prove it's

426
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:59.359
not would all these people think it
is? So I can be the smart

427
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:02.400
one. And people who are lay, lay people actually, you know,

428
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:07.119
will say Hey, he seems pretty
reasonable. You thought that, but it's

429
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:12.519
it's not when you call into question
people that we paid to do this.

430
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:17.640
We paid you paid to teach Alex
Dietrich how to do this. And I'm

431
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:22.160
telling you how not easy it is. And I know, I know Nick

432
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:25.400
has flown to Sessna. I've also
licensed to fly Sessna. Let me tell

433
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.920
you how much more difficult it is
to fly one of these aircraft with g's,

434
00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:35.279
with a G suit, when you
have someone that straps you in and

435
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:38.480
pulls on those straps, like the
damn Space Shuttle, and then and then

436
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.359
you have that sensor camera on your
head. You know, they have that

437
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:45.799
helmet mounted queuing system, all that
kind of stuff. It's just it's he

438
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:50.559
doesn't understand what he's looking at,
and he doesn't know that he doesn't understand

439
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:54.000
it. But people who are lay
folks think that he knows because he went

440
00:33:54.039 --> 00:34:00.160
and read a manual about the camera. So he's trying to start from the

441
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:06.200
end. I'm gonna be analyzed first, but I haven't gone through the hard

442
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.679
part. The hard part is getting
through flight school and even getting selected to

443
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:15.480
fly a fighter. Then after you
get to fly, in order to critique

444
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:19.639
others. You have to become an
instructor and your your records go up in

445
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:22.719
front of a board and they nominate
you as an instructor. Once you're an

446
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:28.039
instructor, now I could critique Lampy's
flying before that she flies. I fly.

447
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:31.159
I don't tell her how to do
her business because I'm not an instructor.

448
00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:35.000
If she gets to be an instructor
before me, Hey, DJ,

449
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.440
I didn't like what you did in
today's exercise. Tell me why, and

450
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:42.719
you sit down debrief me. Then
there's flight examiner, and a flight examiner

451
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.599
will decide if you fly, which
means on any day Lampy can come and

452
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:51.440
pat me on the shoulder and squad
and go, DJ, guess what we're

453
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.599
doing a no notice check cry today. So we're gonna give you a briefing,

454
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.559
gonna look at these are the parameters. That's what I'm gonna be looking

455
00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:01.519
at, good Lie. So now
I know that she's going to be looking

456
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:06.639
over my shoulder for the entire flight
and writing down anything she sees. There's

457
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.519
I can't tell you, guys how
much pressure there is when that happens.

458
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:15.119
It's an enormous amount of pressure.
Just okay, and that's what a flight

459
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.280
examiner does. So now, now
if I don't do well, you could

460
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:20.880
say, DJ, you're gonna have
to sit down for a while. We're

461
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:23.039
gonna do some training and we'll try
to get you back up. For now

462
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:28.440
you're grounded. That's happened. Okay, Oh yeah, right, okay,

463
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:30.280
well it happened. And I think
what you're highlighting, and I mean every

464
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.119
time that you go down this path, like, I'm just like, oh

465
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.880
my gosh, it's there's so much
more to the training that people get than

466
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:44.440
I think most realize. And when
you describe it like this and contextualize it

467
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:50.480
for folks, I think it adds
many layers of depth to these testimonies that

468
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:53.480
come from these pilots. You know
it for me at least for me,

469
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:59.119
it does it, and it increases
my level of trust in those testimonies.

470
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:00.880
And I think, like Lamby,
what I'd like for you to talk about,

471
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:06.440
you know, in your observation of
this of the landscape, really is

472
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.400
that this issue of trust, right, so you know, because we're hitting

473
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:13.239
on it, we're kind of dancing
around it, but that it really is

474
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:17.800
a big part of what we choose
to like or not like. Follow or

475
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:22.960
not follow is the credibility of the
story, the witness, whatever it is.

476
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:27.559
So you walk us through a little
bit in your journey anyway, And

477
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.320
when you're in Twitter and kind of
navigating things and looking at these kinds of

478
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.880
stories, you know what increases your
level of trust in a story and what

479
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.480
kind of you know is a red
flag for you to like walk away from

480
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:46.960
from that particular account when I'm just
kidding. Yeah, So when I when

481
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:51.679
I look at stories on you have
Twitter, I think that, first of

482
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.639
all, for a long time,
I wasn't even looking at it that way,

483
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:58.480
because, like I said, I
originally came to this looking for sort

484
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:01.960
of inspiration risk a novel I was
writing, and so like, from at

485
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:06.639
that point, I didn't really care
if stories were true. I just was

486
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.719
looking for things that were interesting.
But now that I'm looking at it more

487
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:15.079
for a more discerning point of view, I think that I tend to look

488
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:19.519
at the source of the link,
and if it's a site that I recognize,

489
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:25.639
either it's a mainstream outlet or it's
run by someone who has been recognized

490
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:30.400
by the community, then it's something
I'm more likely to trust than if it's

491
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:36.119
by some side I've never heard of
that crashes fifty bazillion times when I try

492
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:42.440
to open it on my phone.
I think that there are people that I

493
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:47.079
have interacted with for almost a year
now that I just trust more on a

494
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:52.159
personal level, which isn't necessarily like
something that I would swear to in court

495
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:55.719
as a reason to trust someone,
but it does. But I think that

496
00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:02.280
building relationships with people does like make
them make you trust them more. And

497
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.079
I do tend to look at the
details and of stories and see if they

498
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:13.559
add up to me based on what
I know, Like it isn't super often

499
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:19.039
that I have expertise that is relevant
in this field, but it occasionally happens.

500
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:28.239
Yeah, and yeah it's And then
I also look at sort of whether

501
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:35.519
this story has been told other times
and compare notes on whether it's consistent and

502
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.920
how which parts of it are consistent, because you expect there to be some

503
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:45.360
minor inconsistencies and stories that are told
repeatedly over the course of years, like

504
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:52.079
people's memories are imperfect, like very
minor details can be remembered differently on different

505
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:57.039
retellings. Because they say that when
you when you recall a memory, you

506
00:38:57.079 --> 00:39:00.960
aren't actually recalling the memory of the
event. You're recalling the memory of the

507
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:07.880
last time you remembered it, so
wow. Yeah, but there are some

508
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:13.280
But if there are major inconsistencies on
like events that are key to the narrative,

509
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:20.280
or or if the narrative seems to
change in a way that benefits the

510
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:25.960
teller or seems to make their role
bigger than it was in the original tellings,

511
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:31.519
that can be to me a sign
that maybe the truth is being stretched.

512
00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.159
And then, of course, like
I said, I try to follow

513
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:40.840
more skeptical minded people so I can
see alternate views on the events. Like

514
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:50.039
I don't assume that just because someone
is posting a debunking means that they're automatically

515
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.880
right, because, like you said, like people who are on the skeptical

516
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:59.400
side are not immune from cognitive biases. Nobody is. But I do think

517
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:04.639
that seeing that view can help you
look at it from a different perspective when

518
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:07.199
you're trying to make your own decisions. Yeah, yeah, you know,

519
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.239
I went through this with Green Street
a little bit. My Twitter friend Steven,

520
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:15.800
how are you. I'm sure your
hair looks great today. But in

521
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:21.480
analyzing the whole Tucson helicopter thing,
which fascinated UFO Twitter for about two weeks

522
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:24.920
or so, and I was trying
to and I was going back and forth

523
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.840
with a guy on there, and
I'm not sure what it is. I

524
00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:31.840
think it's still in question. But
just to give you an example, if

525
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:37.719
Stephen green Street, journalists for New
York Posts write The Basement Office, if

526
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:40.559
he were to hand me a piece
of literature and said, DJ read this,

527
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.000
and I read it, and I
say, Okay, that's pretty ordinary.

528
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.559
I mean, I think anybody could
have writ that, and DJ,

529
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:52.159
this is a phenomenal piece of writing, Like you don't know what you're looking

530
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:54.559
at, man, And I'd be
like, okay, well, you know,

531
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:58.119
maybe I don't. I mean,
I don't really have any courses in

532
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:02.440
journalism. I have basic I was
writing, you know, at my apex,

533
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:07.159
so yeah, maybe I don't.
So by contrast, we can listen

534
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:14.159
to a narrative of drones and helicopters
interacting in Tucson and I say that's Stephen's.

535
00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:15.760
He could say, oh, well, that's pretty ordinary what it did.

536
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:20.519
And I'll go, dude, do
you understand like how difficult it is

537
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:23.639
to perform those maneuvers that that thing
did? You don't know what you're looking

538
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:30.400
at. So you see, if
it comes to writing, Steven's gonna be

539
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:32.760
like, dude, this is a
this is a brilliant piece of writing.

540
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.079
Or if it were Louise him In
is this is a wonderful screenplay and you

541
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:40.880
think it's ordinary. Well, I'm
gonna say the same thing when I hear

542
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:45.960
about a drone that's sitting at ten
thousand some a some kind of craft that

543
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.199
we don't know it is sitting at
ten thousand feet and they said it zoomed

544
00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:52.840
straight up to thirteen thousand feet.
I know what it takes to do that

545
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:58.559
exactly, and the fact that they
can't see it on an IR camera really

546
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:00.119
freaks me out. And they said
it was one hundred feet off the wington.

547
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:06.800
So what your training and what your
expertise is. Some of my expertise

548
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:10.400
happens to fall in some of these. But if you start talking about something

549
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:15.519
like what happened with ANGELI or Travis
Walton, I have no. My expertise

550
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:19.119
is nothing. I'm none. It's
the same as anybody else. But if

551
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:24.079
we're talking at something aviation specific,
now I can I can raise my voet,

552
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:29.719
but I mean there are many many
aspects of upology. In fact,

553
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:32.760
when I see a UFO video,
I know nothing. I would ask Micwest

554
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:37.360
is this real? Because to me, this looks like a real UFO video,

555
00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:40.119
and he could look at it and
go, dude, that's obviously faked.

556
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:45.639
Look you can see here. Yeah, So we all have an area

557
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:50.039
you know. Yeah, I don't
spend a lot of time watching UFO videos

558
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:53.000
for that reason. Like, I
have no idea if this is real or

559
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:59.719
not. I don't know anything about
aviation or about CGI or like anything that

560
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:02.079
would allow we to determine if this
is real based on looking at the video.

561
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:07.039
So right, right, it's just
you know, they're different areas of

562
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:13.239
expertise, and sometimes in some cases
none of us haven't an expertise in what

563
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:16.119
we're talking about at all. Then
at that point it's just thoughtful analysis,

564
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:22.800
right, like totally, Well,
thanks, love you back, bro.

565
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:24.800
So yeah, I mean, but
I think like what we're touching on is

566
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:30.519
just a it's a symptom of a
larger issue that we're having, you know,

567
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:34.039
globally, right and that and and
that that's this issue of trust,

568
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:39.039
of credibility of you know, sort
of the lack of faith and institutions that

569
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:43.079
we may have had in the past, that all of these things that have

570
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:46.559
been sort of normal, the reliance
on expertise, you know, the the

571
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:52.679
deference to expertise, all these things
are are changing. They're they're eroding in

572
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.320
a way. Maybe erosion is not
quite the right word to use, but

573
00:43:55.480 --> 00:44:00.039
the plates are shifting. In other
words, the way that it has worked

574
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.639
is not working any longer. You
know, yeah, exactly, it's a

575
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:08.559
tectonic change. Yeah, it's a
tectonic change. I've got to pay this

576
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:12.079
guy, like, there's no way
he can be doing this for free.

577
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.800
Smart So we have this new landscape, right, we have this new landscape

578
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:19.400
that is forming, and we're all
a part of it, you know,

579
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:22.559
We're all part of that conversation.
And it's a new way for us to

580
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:30.039
in a way almost crowdsource credibility or
trustworthiness or whatnot. And I think about

581
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:35.360
this problem in the context of Aluel
Azondo or the government in general. So

582
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.239
if if the government, if we
take the position, and I think most

583
00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:44.679
in euthology would that the government knows
more about this topic than than the average

584
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:47.960
person does than most of us.
Do they have more information, more data,

585
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:52.880
what have you? Yet the public
is at a place in history where

586
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:58.360
the faith in that institution is way
lower than it's ever been. So how

587
00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:00.360
do you how do you balance that
this out? And I think about what

588
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:05.840
Lou's doing on his like the Lou
Road Show, Jesus, you know,

589
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:08.440
because that's what he's basically he's always
on. Then that guy is working so

590
00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:13.599
hard, he's on all the shows
and he's just getting the word out.

591
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:20.000
And if you think about what you
would need to begin restoring credibility in the

592
00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:22.440
narrative, you're gonna have to,
you know, put in the work.

593
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:24.800
You're gonna have to the boots are
gonna have to hit the ground and do

594
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:29.639
the walking and walk a long time
and hold a lot of hands and have

595
00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:34.280
a lot of conversations to where you
get to the place where the community and

596
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:38.000
those that are behind the community.
Because for every person you see on UFO

597
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:42.159
Twitter who's involved or lurking, as
you said, LAMPI, you know,

598
00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:45.159
like and I think all of us
relateate to that, there's a whole host

599
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:49.239
of people behind that person that aren't
aware of it, or only tangentially aware

600
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.239
of it, maybe never never interested
it at all, but that they intersect

601
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:58.039
the orbit of that person who's engaged
with UFO Twitter. So if Lou and

602
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:04.360
his outreach and others like Chris likely
like Chris Mellan, if what they're doing

603
00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:10.079
is restoring credibility in the institution of
the government of the secret keepers by all

604
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:15.760
of this work that they're doing,
and if we extend to them our charity

605
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:21.920
and our trust, then when the
secrets begin getting become revealed or are more

606
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:25.079
revealed, then we have we are
all in a position at that point to

607
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:29.960
amplify that truth and say, hey, I know this may sound weird,

608
00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:35.119
but we've walked miles with with this
guy and we trust him now, and

609
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:37.719
so we you know, you can
trust us because you know us and we

610
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:43.599
trust him. He's do an enormous
amount of work too, to bring his

611
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:47.039
knowledge up to all these He was
a biochem major who went into intel and

612
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:52.840
man he is really his knowledge of
aviation is sharp. Man, Oh tremendous.

613
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:55.880
I mean, the guy is clearly
a sharp guy. And I guess

614
00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:00.400
so Lamby, Like you know,
as we talk about that, you know

615
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:02.840
one thing that I noticed this happens
and how it often happens in the lull

616
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:07.559
periods between you know, the news
cycles, the breaking sort of things that

617
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:10.519
happen on UFO Twitter. Uh.
You know, it's it's like the community

618
00:47:10.599 --> 00:47:15.280
kinds to tend to start turning inward
and there's like a circular firing squad that

619
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:19.880
begins to happen. You know that
we have this this pens up need for

620
00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:22.639
something. When that need isn't satisfied, we take it out on each other,

621
00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:25.760
right, and we do this.
Yeah, Like I don't I'm sure

622
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:31.920
you remember UFO Twitter in June,
Like in those two or three weeks leading

623
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:36.559
up to the u a PTF report
being released, it was it was a

624
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:42.639
mess. Like people were like like
like the claws were out. There was

625
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:49.159
so much drama community. So yeah, I definitely think that when people are

626
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:54.800
restless, then there tends to be
more of more drama on UFO Twitter.

627
00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:00.159
And I and I think that,
yeah, we all are in a time

628
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:05.440
where it is difficult to know who
to trust. Like, I think trust

629
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:07.880
in the government is low. I
think trust in a lot of mainstream media

630
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:12.199
outlets has been low for a while, and like even trust in each other

631
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:16.480
is low because this is a topic
where a lot of us are anonymous or

632
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:22.880
pseudononymous, because we because it's still
somewhat stigmatized, and we don't necessarily want

633
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:27.840
our boss to google us and find
us talking about UFOs. But at the

634
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:32.639
same time, like we know that
there are bots and trolls and people on

635
00:48:32.679 --> 00:48:40.880
Twitter who are there specifically to divide
communities and cause problems for an afarious ends,

636
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:47.519
and so it's really hard to establish
the trust needed to move forward on

637
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:52.239
a subject like this, And that's
why I think it's so important to sort

638
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:58.440
of build a lasting community here.
And yes, and like with Elizondo,

639
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:02.880
like I've noticed that he appears on
like the sixty Minutes Special, but he'll

640
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:08.960
also go on podcasts that have a
couple of thousand subscribers. And so I

641
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:15.039
think that people who are trying to
make this topic mainstream are conscious of the

642
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:21.320
fact that they need to not only
rely on their status and expertise, but

643
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:27.800
build relationships with people and make it
known that they're someone who can be relied

644
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:31.360
on on a personal level. Absolutely, And I was going to ask you

645
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:37.719
if if you were to give your
state of uthology in terms of I think

646
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:45.360
the government knows this has that like
a lot of people in terms of programs,

647
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:50.360
So do you think they have craft
don't have craft, have had beings,

648
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:55.199
have never had beings, no more
than what the uf UAPTF knows,

649
00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:59.199
doesn't know more. Where you let's
go, I'd like to go around the

650
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:01.559
horn. Go you and then Nathan, and then I'll go. What do

651
00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:06.920
you think is the status of where
we're at now? In terms of their

652
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:14.840
grasp on this topic, Like if
going purely by gut feeling, not based

653
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:22.440
on anything reliable, I would guess
that they know more than we do,

654
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:28.559
but not by much. I would
not assume that they have bodies or craft.

655
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:34.079
I think that I, if I
were to guess, I would say

656
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:40.440
that the government knows enough that it
would be embarrassing to admit they didn't.

657
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:45.480
They don't know more than they do. And I also think that there's a

658
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:52.159
good chance that there is knowledge sort
of scattered in bits and pieces among various

659
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:59.599
agencies, like different branches of the
military might have some information, the Task

660
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:05.800
Force my have some, NASA might
have some, and just but but it

661
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:09.360
hasn't gotten to a point where they've
been able to sort of compile everything that's

662
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:15.360
known, especially because since there are
so many unknowns with this topic, you

663
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:22.440
might have information that would help put
the puzzle together. But not even know

664
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:30.159
that it has anything to do with
UAPs. Interesting, Yeah, well right,

665
00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:31.519
I mean the Vatican comes to mind, you know, whatever they may

666
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:37.880
have in their treasure trove of information
through history, right, stories that may

667
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:45.639
have seemed like traditional miracles may in
fact be you know, there you go,

668
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:52.320
some sort of manifestation of whatever this
is. But I think you're spot

669
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:59.440
on. I think that and Lou's
recent interview, I forget who it was

670
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.159
with Andy, I don't. Yeah, that's right, it was with Andy.

671
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:07.800
You know, that confirmed for me
that we don't we don't know as

672
00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:10.440
much as we as we hope that
they know. He doesn't that the government

673
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:13.800
does not know as much as we
hope that they know. I think that

674
00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:16.440
they they do know a good bit. I think that they have, you

675
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:22.840
know, like you said, compartmentalized
information. But there in lies the challenge,

676
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:28.719
and that is like to start kind
of compiling it, putting it out

677
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:31.159
there and then looking at out looking
at all the pieces that are on the

678
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:35.199
table and saying, well, we
have all these pieces. We don't have

679
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:37.280
the box, we don't know what
it looks like, but we've we've collected

680
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:40.159
all this stuff. So okay,
like I guess we all need to try

681
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:44.079
to put it together like and that, you know, think about how that

682
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:50.320
howw challenging that would be to the
world that has in the twentieth century,

683
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:55.840
the modern world has grown a custom
to state power having sort of answers.

684
00:52:55.880 --> 00:53:00.039
You know that they have the resources, they have the expertise, they know

685
00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:06.119
more than average person does about most
things. So to put all of this

686
00:53:06.280 --> 00:53:07.920
out there on the table and say, you know what, we really don't

687
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:13.519
know and we now need everyone in
the world to sort of look at this

688
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.599
with us and can put it together. I think that is I mean,

689
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:22.360
I can't imagine how they would start
that task. It sounds really challenging unless

690
00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:28.679
and this is where I think I'm
the most curious about is is the conversation

691
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:32.039
partner that we haven't talked about,
and that is whatever they are, whatever

692
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:38.480
this non human intelligence happens to be, what role do they play in us

693
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:43.519
solving this puzzle. Are they going
to be a proactive role in helping us

694
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:46.480
answer these questions or are they going
to just sort of passively sit back and

695
00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:50.840
see if we can put it together
on our own, or do we need

696
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:55.280
to reach a certain critical mass of
interest to where then this intelligence says,

697
00:53:55.360 --> 00:54:00.960
Okay, now that sixty percent of
the world is interested in this and it

698
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:06.000
is open to this concept, this
is an okay time for us to you

699
00:54:06.039 --> 00:54:10.239
know, be more actively involved in
the truth and revealing whatever it may be.

700
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:14.960
I think that this is the journey
that we're now on, that we've

701
00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:17.519
made, we started making these steps. The public is now a part of

702
00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:22.440
the of this journey in a way
that has never been before. And now

703
00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:23.360
it's for me, it's like,
what is the timeline? You know,

704
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:29.760
how long do we have to walk
together and bring other people along with us.

705
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:31.719
It's sort of like Forrest Gump when
he takes the run across the country

706
00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:35.119
and you know, people start joining
him on the run. You know,

707
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:37.960
how many people do we need to
get on that run before it starts hitting

708
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:42.639
the news and it's a real thing
and it's a movement, right, So

709
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:45.599
I really don't think we're quite at
that point yet. I think we're still

710
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:49.880
at a sort of niche, you
know, fringe interest. Although you know,

711
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.760
interestingly, every time that the mainstream
media picks this up, they get

712
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:55.920
a ton of eyeballs on that.
And the New York Times will tell you,

713
00:54:55.960 --> 00:55:00.599
like one of their most wide read
articles. Is still that twenties seventeen

714
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:04.480
articles, so you know they're the
interest is there, but maybe we don't

715
00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:08.840
quite have at the place yet to
where we can really have that mature conversation.

716
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:15.239
Now, I want to bring Bella
over to see lampy, but Bella,

717
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:17.760
Bella is crashed out over there.
It doesn't look like she wants to

718
00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:25.679
get up. But okay, my
roundup is as follows. I agree with

719
00:55:25.960 --> 00:55:30.159
both of your points. I don't
think obviously, I don't think they know

720
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:34.079
everything. They don't know where these
craft are from. I believe Okay,

721
00:55:34.119 --> 00:55:38.599
so here's what I think. I
believe that based on the evidence shows that

722
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:45.840
there are these UAS craft. They're
craft that are peer not to go in

723
00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:49.760
the water. There are these very
very large craft that people have seen,

724
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:54.119
particularly where I grew up. So
I think the government is a where of

725
00:55:54.239 --> 00:56:00.719
all of these sightings and have collected
probably pieces of these. I am one.

726
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:07.079
I know just enough about Area fifty
one or Groom Lake Test Range to

727
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:12.400
know that, and I'm going to
counter something I heard on Twitter. They

728
00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:15.239
could hih. I assure you of
this. I'm positive of this. I

729
00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:19.000
can't tell you what they have there. I can tell you they could hide

730
00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:24.920
something there until you die and your
kids die like that. That's I mean,

731
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:30.239
that's basically what we're looking at because
it's been there since what forty nine

732
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:36.480
fifty something like that. So so
yes, if they had something, that

733
00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.599
would be the place that you would
put it. And I have a fair

734
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:45.400
degree of confidence that something like that
probably if it exists, it exists there.

735
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:50.960
It probably exists. I can't say
I'm one hundred percent sure in terms

736
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:54.679
of a contractor having something like big
Low Aerospace or Lockeed Martin. I can

737
00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:59.320
also assure you if there was a
craft, it would not be in one

738
00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:02.559
of those facility these full stop.
A piece of metal, sure, a

739
00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:07.039
couple of pieces here, a couple
of pieces there. You guys examine this.

740
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:10.000
Yes, something that you could walk
somebody by and they'd look at it

741
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:14.159
and they wouldn't know what it is. But if there is a craft that's

742
00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:17.039
anywhere near intact, it is going
to be in a facility that nobody can

743
00:57:17.079 --> 00:57:21.280
see, and that would be a
place like the Groom Lake Test Range,

744
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:30.039
China Lake right Pat underground places things
like that. Particularly it's well traveled at

745
00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:32.800
right Pat, but at a place
like Groom lake. You can't even you

746
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:37.239
can't even overfly it, like you
can't fly over top of that range,

747
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:45.039
right, you know, if you're
an airliner. Yeah, so I agree

748
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:46.920
with you guys. I don't think
they know everything at all. I don't

749
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:51.280
think they know where these things are
from. I don't think they've been successful

750
00:57:51.400 --> 00:57:55.880
in back engineering any significant part of
them that would lead to something that looks

751
00:57:55.920 --> 00:58:01.079
like ticktac. Because if that's the
case, then you know, I've been

752
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:06.119
involved in acquisition and we're buying airplanes
that are nowhere near what TikTok is.

753
00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:09.119
So I don't know why we would
be doing that if we could be buying

754
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:15.679
something that will perform like TikTok.
So so anyway, let's go back to

755
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:20.679
Angelie, my friend. Let's go
back to the You know, people don't

756
00:58:20.679 --> 00:58:22.000
want to see this, so you
got to take the camera out there,

757
00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:32.880
naven S LAMPI. Let's go through
this chronologically. If you go through this

758
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:37.159
story from the beginning, tell me
what resonates with you, what you have

759
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:40.559
questions about. I don't know if
you want to start at the hospital room

760
00:58:40.760 --> 00:58:46.000
or back at the apartment that she
was in as a contractor with her daughter

761
00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:50.559
and by the way, I haven't
even seen I don't know her daughter's Twitter,

762
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:52.679
so I haven't seen anything about what
she has to say whatsoever. I'll

763
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:57.639
have to talk to you about that
offline. But well, first of all,

764
00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:00.199
I didn't realize her daughter had a
Twitter, So that is very interesting

765
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:05.519
information. If that gets revealed,
I will definitely have to look into that.

766
00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:10.760
But yeah, I think Angelie is
a very interesting person. Like I

767
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:16.559
know that what I know that some
people have looked into her background and it

768
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:22.119
seems like she is being honest at
least about her professional credentials that there hasn't

769
00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:25.039
been I know some people have called
them into question, but no one's really

770
00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:30.480
found a smoking gun against that against
what she said, and some people have

771
00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:36.440
found corroborating evidence. So she definitely
has at least worked for the government in

772
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:44.559
some capacity. And just having seen
her speak in person, she's very She's

773
00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:46.679
very easy to listen to, Like
she seems like a very nice person.

774
00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:52.320
Like if you just ran into her
at a cafe and made small talk with

775
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:57.000
her, she wouldn't strike you as
somebody weird or strange. You would just

776
00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:02.239
seem like a very nice mom lady. Uh So, like I saw her

777
01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.400
to cafe and said, Hey,
would you like to go to my house

778
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:08.480
and see an alien like that?
I'm sorry, it's just too close.

779
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:13.599
Yeah, no, no, that's
fine. But yeah, like she she

780
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:16.400
seems like a very approachable person,
I think, but like, but of

781
01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:22.679
course, like just because somebody is
nice and just because someone is intelligent doesn't

782
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:30.559
mean that they're necessarily trustworthy. And
there are aspects of her story that do

783
01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:37.400
seem reminiscent of cults and that are
that are concerning, Like specifically, her

784
01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:45.760
talk about how the world is about
to become uninhabitable to beings who inhabit these

785
01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:50.800
bodies and we are going to have
to ascend to a higher density, Like

786
01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:58.440
that sounds very Heaven's gaety, It's
very concerning to me. She sort of

787
01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:02.760
dropped that line at the press conference
and then looked out at the reflecting pool

788
01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:06.079
and was like, oh, look, the ducks are so pretty, and

789
01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:10.880
I was like, yes they are, but like backcalyptic. Yeah, Like,

790
01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:21.440
I feel like like you should say
more on that, ma'am. I

791
01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:27.440
also think that her descriptions of what's
going on with Wayne are very strange,

792
01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:32.360
like the fact that he and Trisha
have only been given pseudonyms and apparently want

793
01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:39.960
to remain anonymous and not be involved
in this and not have their location revealed.

794
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:44.559
And on the one hand, I
get wanting your privacy like that,

795
01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:47.519
That's why I'm here in the giant
alien. I sunglasses, going by initials.

796
01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:54.360
But like, you made contact with
aliens, and etis aliens is not

797
01:01:54.800 --> 01:02:01.320
PC anymore. I apologize. I
will post my notes app apology on Twitter

798
01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:09.519
later and hopefully you won't cancel me. But he but he made contact minute.

799
01:02:09.519 --> 01:02:15.159
I'm sorry, ah, thank you, But he made contact with ets.

800
01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:21.559
They told him to drill into the
mountain to find their base. This,

801
01:02:21.559 --> 01:02:28.320
this man single handedly excavated a mountain
in order to find these aliens.

802
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:34.559
He brought in a random lady he
met at a cafe to meet them,

803
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:39.880
who was then told that a new
era is beginning because the world is about

804
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:45.280
to end. And he's like,
I want to be anonymous because my wife

805
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:49.719
and I want to keep living a
private life. Like man, that ship

806
01:02:49.760 --> 01:02:55.960
has sailed, Like you're like,
this is the most like if this is

807
01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:01.960
true, this is the most significant
event of our lifetimes at least, if

808
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:07.559
not all of human history. And
like you're worried about people talking about you

809
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:12.199
on the internet, Like, it
just doesn't make a lot of sense to

810
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:17.800
me. And then Angelie had her
post today where she sort of was heading

811
01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:24.199
off people wanting to find the mountain
on Wayne's property on their own and just

812
01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:30.679
sort of post a thread talking about
how like Wayne values his privacy and also

813
01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:37.639
he is very well off and he
has armed guards outside of his place,

814
01:03:37.719 --> 01:03:42.719
and he lives in the in a
mountain in the middle of the desert.

815
01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:52.719
Oh she's so pretty. But but
but yeah, and it it just sounds

816
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:59.960
very strange and to the point where
I feel like, even if Angeli brought

817
01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:05.039
back definitive proof of the Aliens on
this trip, and like it turned out

818
01:04:05.079 --> 01:04:10.119
that aspect of her story was one
hundred percent legit, I would wonder if

819
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:14.480
she's not being completely truthful on the
Wayne thing. Like I would wonder if

820
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:25.480
Wayne is sort of an alternate explanation
for a much more powerful and resourced benefactor

821
01:04:25.519 --> 01:04:30.239
than you would expect from just like
one guy who lives out in the desert

822
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:33.920
with his wife LAMPI I'm willing to
go quid pro quo. I mean,

823
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:40.239
if she produces the Aliens, I'm
okay. If Wayne, Yeah, like

824
01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:43.599
you know, and it could be
Wayne anybody, you know. I mean,

825
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:45.920
I'm okay with it. Maybe it's
been the return of Wayne Newton for

826
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:50.639
all I care. Yeah, no, that's that's totally fair. But yeah,

827
01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:54.800
maybe it's Batman. Guys could be
Bruce Wayne. I mean, Lambie's

828
01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:59.719
got a high standard. Not only
does she want to see four fully fleshed

829
01:04:59.719 --> 01:05:03.719
ani means one of being an eight
tall lavender skin manthis, but she also

830
01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:09.480
wants to know Wayne's identity or this
whole thing is farce, you'll know.

831
01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:15.400
But I do think that, like
I don't know that bothers you. There's

832
01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:18.840
something about you know what's interesting is
that is that actually is an interesting point,

833
01:05:18.920 --> 01:05:23.719
right Nathan that bothers her? Yeah, no, I get it.

834
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:30.360
I mean there are a lot of
points in this story that are head scratching,

835
01:05:30.519 --> 01:05:33.280
to say the least, I think. At the same time, since

836
01:05:33.320 --> 01:05:38.840
we've never had an alien reveal before, we have no benchmark by wish to

837
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:41.760
judge what it would look like.
So you know, this is sort of

838
01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:45.440
where I think, you know,
we're all going to struggle, right,

839
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:48.920
It's like we don't have anything to
really judge this against other than other than

840
01:05:50.199 --> 01:05:59.400
the number of instances in human history
where individuals or groups of individuals have made

841
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:08.719
similar proclamations that have ended up being
just complete bogus. And you know what,

842
01:06:09.039 --> 01:06:12.519
I don't know if why I'm having
this thought right now, but when

843
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:15.800
one of the earlier books that I
read when I started getting into this topic

844
01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:21.800
was John Keel's Operation Trojan Horse,
which I highly recommend. If you haven't

845
01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:25.800
read it, you've got to read
it. It's excellent. And what what

846
01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:31.360
Keel does He goes through several different, uh sort of accounts throughout history and

847
01:06:31.480 --> 01:06:38.280
talks about some of the similarities of
those accounts. And Jacques Vallet does this

848
01:06:38.360 --> 01:06:43.119
as well in Passport to Magonia.
Talks about all these sort of different stories

849
01:06:43.159 --> 01:06:46.519
and they're very strange, you know, they're very strange instances where people have

850
01:06:46.639 --> 01:06:50.280
encounters with, you know, beings
and they tell people about it. Nobody

851
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:55.039
believes them. The beings are weird, they do weird things that none of

852
01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:57.960
it really it makes a lot of
sense. So you're kind of left going

853
01:06:58.039 --> 01:07:00.719
like, okay, like was this
a real thing that happened? Was this

854
01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:05.559
a made up story? And if
it was real and nothing came of it,

855
01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:10.679
what was the point of that?
Right? So Keel kind of gets

856
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:18.079
at this narrative that there's a trickster
component to the phenomenon that likes to play

857
01:07:18.199 --> 01:07:24.159
with and, you know, toy
with humanity in a way. And so

858
01:07:24.480 --> 01:07:28.480
I think there it's a very real
possibility that this her experience could have been

859
01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:33.440
real and and very real to her. And when this expedition goes to wherever,

860
01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:36.480
it may be that none of it's
there, right, but it could

861
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:43.559
still be very real. So it
may have been something that is designed its

862
01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:49.079
whole purpose is designed to create a
controversy and have something kind of collapse in

863
01:07:49.159 --> 01:07:56.119
on itself for reasons I don't understand, but there seems to be precedent for

864
01:07:56.199 --> 01:08:00.559
that. Yeah, I am.
I've definitely seen people talk about that possibility

865
01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:06.800
that she's not lying and she's not
crazy, but that whatever she had contact

866
01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:12.760
with is not something that can be
trusted. And if that happens, I

867
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:17.239
think I would I think that we'll
have to see what her reaction is because

868
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:26.199
if she comes forward and is like
I believed this, I was misled and

869
01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:31.239
just sort of owns that, then
I would hope people are kind to her

870
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:38.239
and that she doesn't that it doesn't
ruin her life. To have come forward

871
01:08:38.279 --> 01:08:43.439
and given her real name. I
would hope that if she isn't able to

872
01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:47.560
produce the evidence, but she still
holds herself out as sort of being the

873
01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:54.399
conduit leading us to a new era, that people would call her out on

874
01:08:54.479 --> 01:09:00.279
that. But yeah, either way, I think that that she has promised

875
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:04.279
she's going to go back by the
end of the year, and I'm hoping

876
01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:10.680
that one way or another, this
controversy is going to be resolved by then.

877
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:16.840
Like either either she like pulls through
takes a selfie with the lavender mantis

878
01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:25.479
and like we're all gonna have to
buy our drinks, or she says like

879
01:09:26.119 --> 01:09:31.560
I was tricked and I was wrong
and I'm sorry for having led you on

880
01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:39.079
this wild use chase, or or
she isn't able to produce everything and doubles

881
01:09:39.119 --> 01:09:43.880
down and says, well, actually, the real aliens were the friends we

882
01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:49.840
made along the way. Also buy
my book and and people like see that

883
01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:55.600
for what it is and stop listening
to her. But either way, I

884
01:09:55.680 --> 01:09:58.640
like, those are the three options
I think are on the table, And

885
01:09:58.760 --> 01:10:01.680
I think no matter what what happens, it's going to be over quickly enough

886
01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:09.359
that I don't think it's worth damaging
relationships permanently, Like I don't even if

887
01:10:09.399 --> 01:10:12.520
you disagree with someone on this,
even if you think someone is being a

888
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:17.159
huge jerk about this, Like I
I think that a lot of people who

889
01:10:17.199 --> 01:10:25.680
normally see eye to eye on this
subject are sort of being driven apart by

890
01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:32.000
this controversy. Like there are people
who are themselves experiencers who don't believe her

891
01:10:32.039 --> 01:10:38.279
because her story doesn't ring true to
them, or they think it's too similar

892
01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:44.159
to other claims that have turned out
to have been made for abusive reasons.

893
01:10:44.680 --> 01:10:49.880
And there are some people who are
not usually into WU but are like,

894
01:10:49.880 --> 01:10:54.000
like, don't be mean to her. She's she'll produce it or she won't.

895
01:10:54.279 --> 01:11:00.079
So I don't think that the normal
lines of argument on you Twitter are

896
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:05.399
necessarily the same ones being drawn here, And so I don't think it's worth

897
01:11:08.119 --> 01:11:14.479
severing ties with someone you've been friends
with over this one very unusual event.

898
01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:17.600
I've got I've got three things I
want to ask you about. Well,

899
01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:21.239
first thing, the first thing is
a proclamation I have volunteered to go.

900
01:11:21.399 --> 01:11:24.840
So I just want to say that, Nathan, make sure you take my

901
01:11:25.239 --> 01:11:28.159
make sure you take my last name
off that thing, and just leave DJ,

902
01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:32.680
I don't want to be anyone I
volunteer to go with you, Angulie.

903
01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:35.800
So I just want to say,
that's where that's where I'm at homegirl,

904
01:11:36.399 --> 01:11:41.439
and I'll provide security for you too. Okay, Now, I'm definitely

905
01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:45.800
she's not gonna let me go.
But I was going to ask you.

906
01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:50.119
First of all. Before I ask
you, I didn't know that other experiences

907
01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:55.000
hers didn't believe her. But I
want to. I mean, yeah,

908
01:11:55.279 --> 01:11:58.399
like like there's something to do,
and there's some that don't like. It's

909
01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:02.560
just very very very wide opinions on
her. Lots of the most common one,

910
01:12:02.600 --> 01:12:06.279
I think is the most common opinion
I think I've seen is people who

911
01:12:06.399 --> 01:12:11.720
just sort of want to wait and
see what she produces. I think I've

912
01:12:11.720 --> 01:12:16.159
seen very few people who are one
hundred percent on board right now, but

913
01:12:16.359 --> 01:12:20.359
I have I've seen at least a
couple of people who were supportive of her

914
01:12:20.399 --> 01:12:26.760
who have since shifted because they feel
like the way she's conducted herself on social

915
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:32.960
media hasn't inspired a lot of confidence. I don't think, yeah, but

916
01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:39.279
I kind of yield to Nathan with
that, like there's and he and I

917
01:12:39.319 --> 01:12:42.840
have this discussion. I think the
day I just did the day that you

918
01:12:42.920 --> 01:12:47.159
introduced me to Angelie because I was
on AVER. I said, you know,

919
01:12:47.800 --> 01:12:49.760
I wasn't that day. But it's
a few days later I said,

920
01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:54.760
I don't think there's a way to
tell this story and not say if this

921
01:12:54.840 --> 01:12:59.399
has let's just say that, can
we agree amongst the triumvirate that sits here

922
01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:09.520
where Caesar, Pompe, Magnus,
Mark Antony, if this is this within

923
01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:16.680
the realm of possibility? Sure?
Yes, okay, So if it's within

924
01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:20.239
the realm of possibility, I submit
to you off of Nathan. In the

925
01:13:20.279 --> 01:13:27.399
back of what Nathan said, there's
no way to present this story to a

926
01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:31.039
person whom you don't know personally,
so not your daughter, her husband,

927
01:13:31.159 --> 01:13:36.600
whatever, where it's not going to
sound absolutely crazy. Mh. Is there

928
01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:42.640
a way where it would sound absolutely
nuts? I think the only there are

929
01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:47.800
degrees of crazy, I suppose,
but the only way that so it's sort

930
01:13:47.840 --> 01:13:50.840
of like a it's almost like a
court case in a sense, like the

931
01:13:50.840 --> 01:13:56.439
more evidence that you could provide,
the more likely that it would be a

932
01:13:56.479 --> 01:14:00.000
real thing. Right so, right
now we only have uh, hearsay testimony.

933
01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:03.439
You know, we don't have any
sort of tangible evidence of any kind

934
01:14:03.479 --> 01:14:10.239
other than her testimony, And so
if she were to come back and say,

935
01:14:10.359 --> 01:14:13.439
well, I actually I have a
you know, here's the here's the

936
01:14:13.479 --> 01:14:16.640
full name and address of the of
Wayne and Trish or whatever. You know,

937
01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:19.760
Here's where I went, Here's how
it here's you can see it's adjacent

938
01:14:19.840 --> 01:14:25.239
to the mountain, you can that
would be something that would add another layer

939
01:14:25.640 --> 01:14:30.399
of credibility to the story. I
do think it's interesting that she has family

940
01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:35.840
who have They have not been vocally
as far as I can tell, and

941
01:14:35.880 --> 01:14:40.840
I have only recently also heard that
she had a daughter on Twitter, but

942
01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:46.359
I haven't heard of any instance where
they are coming out in opposition to her

943
01:14:46.399 --> 01:14:53.680
story. So that brings another layer
of credibility to it. That if she

944
01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:57.079
has shared this, she's put herself
out there, she's put her family name

945
01:14:57.119 --> 01:15:00.720
out there. If they haven't come
forward and said, you know, we

946
01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:04.399
really need to take care of of
Angula here, you know. I mean,

947
01:15:04.439 --> 01:15:09.119
I don't think I would come forwardy
like, even if I didn't believe

948
01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:12.680
the story, Like, I don't
think i'd spontaneously go on Twitter and be

949
01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:15.159
like, guys, my mom is
nuts, Like I think I would.

950
01:15:15.840 --> 01:15:19.159
Well, I guess yeah, that
entirely. Well, I think it depends

951
01:15:19.199 --> 01:15:24.600
though, in the sense that you
know, what what what is at stake?

952
01:15:24.680 --> 01:15:26.720
I suppose, right, you know, I think you have to answer

953
01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:30.000
that that question. If if it's
just the disappointment of some Twitter people,

954
01:15:30.479 --> 01:15:33.079
you know, maybe that's not a
big deal, and you're right, it's

955
01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:35.880
not worth you know, kind of
putting yourself out there. But if it's

956
01:15:35.880 --> 01:15:41.000
more than that, if it's somebody
who uh, you know, is making

957
01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:45.920
literal plans this year to do X
y Z based on the imminent disclosure of

958
01:15:46.079 --> 01:15:50.039
whatever it is. You know,
they're spending money on it, they're changing

959
01:15:50.079 --> 01:15:55.039
their will and testament to you know, to to whatever is going to happen

960
01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:57.800
that they think will happen. You
know, there are all these things that

961
01:15:57.800 --> 01:16:01.319
the people will do, and so
you know, what responsibility do you have

962
01:16:01.520 --> 01:16:08.439
to those people, uh, to
prevent them from making those large decisions if

963
01:16:08.479 --> 01:16:13.800
you happen to have knowledge that it's
a fraud, you know, well,

964
01:16:14.359 --> 01:16:17.039
I'd have to wrestle with that.
She obviously, but you know, I

965
01:16:17.079 --> 01:16:21.960
mean, in her mind, this
this this happened. I mean, so,

966
01:16:23.479 --> 01:16:25.520
I mean, there's no doubt in
her mind. But what I was

967
01:16:25.560 --> 01:16:31.600
going to ask Lampy regarding experiencers,
is if you think that somebody sees a

968
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:36.439
being because for example, like Terry
Lovelace describes a being that looks very similar

969
01:16:36.920 --> 01:16:42.159
to the being that that Anjeli described. I'm sure you've read different accounts.

970
01:16:42.600 --> 01:16:47.720
Do you find that that one could
be causal in the other that somebody if

971
01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:54.399
something And I'm not saying this is
necessarily applies to Angelie or any but there

972
01:16:54.399 --> 01:17:00.840
are several people who said they've seen
Mantis's. Do you believe that that if

973
01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:05.479
this is something that is happening within
your mind, making it very real that

974
01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:10.199
you're getting it from somebody else,
you think that's possible. Yeah, Like,

975
01:17:10.199 --> 01:17:13.760
it's very difficult because, like like
you said, a lot of accounts

976
01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:18.640
report beings that look very similar like
Mantis's, tall, whites, grays like

977
01:17:18.680 --> 01:17:23.159
those are the three I remember her
mentioning in her breast conferends, and those

978
01:17:23.159 --> 01:17:27.079
are three very common things to report. And it's like, is everyone reporting

979
01:17:27.079 --> 01:17:31.039
this because these are the aliens that
exist? Or are they reporting this because

980
01:17:31.079 --> 01:17:34.960
they're ripping off each other? And
I don't think that there's an easy way

981
01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:43.439
to answer this question without more evidence. I will say that for me,

982
01:17:44.600 --> 01:17:48.880
I don't think there's a way to
report an experience like Angelly claims that doesn't

983
01:17:48.920 --> 01:17:53.439
sound crazy, like even if it
happened. But I do think there's room

984
01:17:53.560 --> 01:18:00.399
to scrutinize sort of the way she
conducts herself after the experience, so for

985
01:18:00.439 --> 01:18:03.920
example, like the way she talks
to people on Twitter and read it,

986
01:18:04.039 --> 01:18:13.159
sort of the way she like plans
the event. Because one thing I keep

987
01:18:13.159 --> 01:18:19.439
coming back to is that if this
is true, it is extremely important,

988
01:18:19.479 --> 01:18:24.479
like it is the most important thing
that is going on in the world right

989
01:18:24.520 --> 01:18:31.680
now, because it has consequences for
all of humanity. And she's and she's

990
01:18:31.720 --> 01:18:40.640
saying that she's going to have this
expedition and that she is committed to doing

991
01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:45.399
that, and she posts, she
posts affirmation that she's channeling from the beings

992
01:18:45.439 --> 01:18:53.119
allegedly. But I don't get the
sense of urgency that I think the situation

993
01:18:53.880 --> 01:19:02.479
would merit, and I think that
she is I think she's overly invested in

994
01:19:02.600 --> 01:19:09.199
worrying about really trivial stuff. Like
I saw that she unblocked everyone that she

995
01:19:09.279 --> 01:19:14.399
blocked, and I respect that I
but up until that point, she was

996
01:19:14.439 --> 01:19:20.279
getting increasingly frazzled, lashing out at
people on Twitter and on Reddit, even

997
01:19:20.279 --> 01:19:26.920
like banning people from her subreddit for
like stuff that was fairly minor in terms

998
01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:30.359
of questioning her. And and on
the one hand, I get that she's

999
01:19:30.439 --> 01:19:33.680
under a lot of scrutiny, and
some people have been very mean in the

1000
01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:40.840
way that they've criticized her, Like
I've seen people make make comments like accusing

1001
01:19:40.880 --> 01:19:45.039
her of faking needing a wheelchair,
which I don't think is ever appropriate to

1002
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:50.680
accuse someone of. I've seen people
like make comments like like oh, like,

1003
01:19:50.760 --> 01:19:54.880
oh she's so like oh she's hot. Too bad, she's crazy,

1004
01:19:55.079 --> 01:19:58.600
like like don't like, don't be
sexist guys, like what would your mother

1005
01:19:58.720 --> 01:20:06.600
think? But but at the same
time, like you were you met aliens,

1006
01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:13.079
you are currently channeling them, like
they have chosen you to lead us

1007
01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:17.640
into our ascension to a higher density, And you are worried about people being

1008
01:20:17.760 --> 01:20:23.880
mean to you on the internet,
like I mean, the last time somebody

1009
01:20:24.239 --> 01:20:30.199
had revelations of this significance, they
got crucified. And you're upset because somebody

1010
01:20:30.239 --> 01:20:36.119
with two hundred followers on Twitter and
an x files profile picture is saying unkind

1011
01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:44.880
things about you, like I I
think that I don't know I feel like

1012
01:20:45.920 --> 01:20:49.760
if I can't say what I would
do in this situation, obviously because it's

1013
01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:58.720
so beyond anything that anyone's like confirmed
to have experienced, but I think that

1014
01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:10.760
I would expect her to be so
singularly focused on this history changing event and

1015
01:21:11.359 --> 01:21:15.359
not getting bogged down in internet drama
and not dragging her feet on and building

1016
01:21:15.359 --> 01:21:25.359
the team just sort of like getting
out there, getting these extraterrestrials to I

1017
01:21:25.439 --> 01:21:29.560
come to the press conference with her
and announce their intentions to the world,

1018
01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:33.159
and like hit the ground running on
what we need to do to ascend to

1019
01:21:33.239 --> 01:21:41.199
our higher density before we are all
sol Like, come on, and I

1020
01:21:41.239 --> 01:21:45.239
want to say, I want to
say that the first part of that story

1021
01:21:45.439 --> 01:21:49.600
that I've found problematic is what you
did is about the excavation of the tunnel.

1022
01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:56.199
I don't know if she asked him
specifically, did someone from your company

1023
01:21:56.279 --> 01:22:00.920
come out and help you do this? I don't see why be unreasonable that

1024
01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:04.239
he couldn't have had people that work
from him come out and help him make

1025
01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:10.159
that tunnel. I would find that
problematic that one man could make that if

1026
01:22:10.159 --> 01:22:14.000
she was walking through a tunnel for
five to ten minutes, and of course

1027
01:22:14.159 --> 01:22:16.600
if this happened, I mean,
your your sense of time is going to

1028
01:22:16.680 --> 01:22:20.039
be very skewed at that moment.
You know, you're not going to know

1029
01:22:20.279 --> 01:22:24.159
how long you were in that tunnel. I mean it could have been a

1030
01:22:24.279 --> 01:22:27.399
minute, it could have been five
minutes, you know for all. But

1031
01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:31.520
I agree with you that I found
that problematic. But that may not have

1032
01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:36.319
been something that she drilled down on
with him, you get it, excavation

1033
01:22:36.479 --> 01:22:45.319
metaphor. Sorry. So I actually
asked her at the press conference a question

1034
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:50.600
about Wayne because I was curious how
he had gotten in touch with the etis

1035
01:22:50.680 --> 01:22:55.800
because he Her story is that like
he saw the UFO, he was curious

1036
01:22:55.840 --> 01:23:00.039
about it. He went out every
night to try and contact it, and

1037
01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:03.439
then eventually the occupants of the UFO
told him, like we're in the mountain,

1038
01:23:03.760 --> 01:23:06.760
go dig to the center of the
mountain. And so I asked her,

1039
01:23:06.920 --> 01:23:12.199
like how he established contact with them, Like did he do something to

1040
01:23:12.520 --> 01:23:15.840
make the first move or did they
just reach out to him via conscious contact

1041
01:23:15.920 --> 01:23:19.439
like she describes, And she said
that she and she told me that she

1042
01:23:19.760 --> 01:23:27.840
hadn't really discussed in depth those questions
with him, like she was just sort

1043
01:23:27.840 --> 01:23:30.600
of like she heard the story it
was immediately eager to go to the mountain,

1044
01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:35.199
which I understand that, but I
don't really get why they didn't talk

1045
01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:41.359
more about it after they got back
from the mountain. And she's also indicated

1046
01:23:41.359 --> 01:23:45.039
that she hasn't been in touch with
him for a long time at this point,

1047
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:50.880
which also seems very strange, Like
this seems like being two of the

1048
01:23:50.880 --> 01:23:58.439
only people who know about extraterrestrials having
a presence on Earth seems like the sort

1049
01:23:58.600 --> 01:24:03.800
of sperience that creates a bond that
you don't just like you just go away.

1050
01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:12.920
So yeah, questions, man,
I mean no, I love I

1051
01:24:12.960 --> 01:24:15.319
love that. I love that analysis, you know. And for me,

1052
01:24:15.399 --> 01:24:20.079
and and DJ will tell you this, like I, this story for me

1053
01:24:20.279 --> 01:24:29.359
is the the importance of this story
isn't about Angeli. It's about experiencers generally,

1054
01:24:30.279 --> 01:24:38.640
And so for me, it's how
how does the community that is already

1055
01:24:38.720 --> 01:24:44.680
willing to accept a lot of things
in this subject that most in the general

1056
01:24:44.680 --> 01:24:49.840
public may not be willing to accept? How does this community accept experience or

1057
01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:56.399
testimony? Uh? And and what
are the what are the checklists of things

1058
01:24:57.000 --> 01:25:01.720
that the community needs to see in
order for for or us to say yeah,

1059
01:25:01.720 --> 01:25:08.319
this is a credible person. I
trust this person's experience like a lah

1060
01:25:08.319 --> 01:25:14.960
Wit Whitley Streeber or Travis Walton or
other big name experiencers who who have recounted

1061
01:25:15.159 --> 01:25:21.800
whatever it is, you know what
gives those experiences and stories credibility against this

1062
01:25:21.840 --> 01:25:25.479
particular story. You know. So
I think we needed, we needed,

1063
01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:33.199
we need a conversation about this type
of criteria because going forward, it's possible

1064
01:25:33.920 --> 01:25:39.520
that there will be more stories like
this. And so do we, you

1065
01:25:39.520 --> 01:25:43.920
know, to to what extent do
we give airtime, our tweet time or

1066
01:25:43.920 --> 01:25:50.600
whatever it is to the next story
and spend energy and effort kind of following

1067
01:25:50.640 --> 01:25:56.119
it, dissecting it, whatever it
is, as opposed to letting it just

1068
01:25:56.239 --> 01:25:59.479
kind of come and go and wash
over us, you know, as a

1069
01:25:59.520 --> 01:26:02.960
community. And you know, we're
weighing this against you know, the government

1070
01:26:03.039 --> 01:26:06.439
disclosure components as do we have a
chat you know, in the on the

1071
01:26:06.520 --> 01:26:10.880
on the live stream. I'll put
it up here from Gabriel. So hey,

1072
01:26:10.960 --> 01:26:13.960
Gabriel, you know he's saying he's
saying that, you know, she's

1073
01:26:14.039 --> 01:26:18.720
running interference against the government disclosure narratives. So the kind of a competing thing.

1074
01:26:19.039 --> 01:26:24.880
But you know, I would argue
that the experiencer stories are always running

1075
01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:30.920
some kind of counter narrative to UH
state truth. You know, So,

1076
01:26:32.640 --> 01:26:36.039
you know, how do we weigh
those two things in the community. How

1077
01:26:36.039 --> 01:26:39.399
do you weigh them? You know, how do you weigh government Louis el

1078
01:26:39.399 --> 01:26:45.960
Azando stuff against experience or stuff?
You know, is alezondo more more important

1079
01:26:45.800 --> 01:26:51.279
or are they equally important? In
how do you make that decision? Honestly,

1080
01:26:51.319 --> 01:26:55.319
I don't think that I've ever really
thought about it in terms of like

1081
01:26:55.399 --> 01:27:00.560
who's more important? Like I will
say that I don't see it as a

1082
01:27:00.680 --> 01:27:05.199
competition. I think that some people
on UFO Twitter who are on more the

1083
01:27:05.319 --> 01:27:11.520
nuts and bolts government disclosure side tend
to not all of them, but some

1084
01:27:11.600 --> 01:27:18.000
of them tend to be concerned about
platforming experiencers too much because they are concerned

1085
01:27:18.039 --> 01:27:25.640
about harming the credibility of this topic
with the mainstream. And I don't think

1086
01:27:25.640 --> 01:27:28.640
that we should think of it that
way. First of all, Like,

1087
01:27:28.880 --> 01:27:33.439
despite what may have been the original
intentions of the hashtag, I genuinely do

1088
01:27:33.479 --> 01:27:40.640
not think there is anyone on UFO
Twitter who is not already interested in this

1089
01:27:40.800 --> 01:27:45.640
topic, Like this is not the
platform that we use to reach out to

1090
01:27:45.680 --> 01:27:49.840
the normies. This is people who
are already interested in UFOs UAPs talking to

1091
01:27:49.880 --> 01:27:54.800
each other. Like you may not
like that, that's the state of things,

1092
01:27:54.800 --> 01:27:57.039
but that is the state of things. So I don't think there's any

1093
01:27:57.119 --> 01:28:02.000
reason to censor ourselves in terms of
what we discuss. And also I think

1094
01:28:02.279 --> 01:28:10.199
that when we talk about Angelie,
we shouldn't conflate her too much with the

1095
01:28:10.359 --> 01:28:15.319
average experiencer, because I think that
some people see the way that she has

1096
01:28:15.439 --> 01:28:23.319
been treated on social media and react
very negatively, not because they support her,

1097
01:28:23.520 --> 01:28:30.960
but because they don't want to see
experienceers broadly treated badly and like treated

1098
01:28:31.039 --> 01:28:35.079
like they have ulterior motives or they're
lying, or they're crazy or whatever.

1099
01:28:35.640 --> 01:28:44.319
But I think that Angelie's story is
very different than someone who just says I

1100
01:28:44.359 --> 01:28:53.720
saw something or I was contacted telepathically
under these circumstances, Like she is specifically

1101
01:28:53.800 --> 01:29:00.560
claiming that she is currently channeling these
beings, that she has been chosen to

1102
01:29:00.640 --> 01:29:09.079
be their mouthpiece as we go forward
and do what we must to survive as

1103
01:29:09.119 --> 01:29:15.079
a species. And that is when
you put yourself out as a leader,

1104
01:29:15.279 --> 01:29:23.680
you have more responsibility to the community
than if you're just saying talking about something

1105
01:29:23.680 --> 01:29:28.880
that happened to you. And and
also like she's she's not like just some

1106
01:29:29.439 --> 01:29:34.920
like teenager or some housewife who had
an experience, like she worked in she

1107
01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:43.520
worked in military intelligence. Like she's
like yeah, like she's she's not like

1108
01:29:43.760 --> 01:29:47.399
she can handle herself. Like like, I don't think we need to worry.

1109
01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:53.760
I don't think that we need to
assume that treating her with scrutiny and

1110
01:29:53.840 --> 01:30:00.600
treating the average experiencer with kindness and
open minded mindedness are mutually exclusive things.

1111
01:30:02.159 --> 01:30:12.880
Wow, a heavy handed, leather
bound Lamby Angel, that's what Lamby is

1112
01:30:12.880 --> 01:30:19.039
trying to say. Butter coughing up
butter Cup, all right? And and

1113
01:30:19.119 --> 01:30:25.680
you know what is what was cool
about that is you weren't saying what you

1114
01:30:25.800 --> 01:30:30.159
expect somebody else is expecting you to
say, or trying to meet a certain

1115
01:30:30.199 --> 01:30:35.079
standard. You were coming through as
this is authentically how I feel about this,

1116
01:30:35.479 --> 01:30:39.640
and I'm gonna say it, and
I don't care what anybody thinks about

1117
01:30:39.680 --> 01:30:43.439
it, and I respect that,
I really do. That was great.

1118
01:30:44.520 --> 01:30:50.159
Let's talk about your book, Homegirl's
Nathan take my name take my name off

1119
01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:56.279
there. I don't people, I'm
gonna get it you'll have to it's too

1120
01:30:56.640 --> 01:31:00.760
late, all right, go ahead? Oh yeah, Well, so I

1121
01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:04.720
finished the like first of all,
like it's a very like lighthearted, like

1122
01:31:05.199 --> 01:31:12.079
sci fi adventure book. Like it's
not like a serious literary examination of the

1123
01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:16.239
of alien abductions or anything. It's
just a girl who gets abducted by aliens

1124
01:31:16.279 --> 01:31:21.159
and goes on adventures and it's fun, I hope. But I finished the

1125
01:31:21.239 --> 01:31:27.520
rough draft back in June. I
started revising it a couple of weeks ago,

1126
01:31:27.600 --> 01:31:32.239
and I'm currently working on that and
hoping to have my first round of

1127
01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:35.840
revisions done by the end of this
month. Then I'm going to send the

1128
01:31:35.920 --> 01:31:40.600
draft to some some more friends,
and then I'm gonna revise some more and

1129
01:31:40.680 --> 01:31:44.720
hoping to be done done by the
end of this year. And then after

1130
01:31:44.800 --> 01:31:48.640
that, I'm going to start querrying
it. Like I'm hoping that, like

1131
01:31:48.760 --> 01:31:53.119
I'm going to try to get it
traditionally published, but like if that doesn't

1132
01:31:53.159 --> 01:31:56.840
work out, I'll reevaluate. But
yeah, it's just it's been fun.

1133
01:31:57.840 --> 01:32:01.479
Are you an experiencer? I am
not, No, I just I got

1134
01:32:01.520 --> 01:32:06.840
into this topic when I was eight
or nine years old because I was with

1135
01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:12.039
my mom at her boyfriend's house and
they watched signs and I watched it with

1136
01:32:12.119 --> 01:32:15.880
them and it was super creepy and
interesting. And then I and then someone

1137
01:32:15.920 --> 01:32:23.279
gave me a book about UFOs and
aliens that I read, and so that

1138
01:32:23.359 --> 01:32:26.720
was my introduction to the topic.
I am. I am not an experiencer,

1139
01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:30.920
never seen one like outside No,
okay, okay, that's awesome.

1140
01:32:30.479 --> 01:32:34.760
And Nathan has so I'm the only
one that's seen one. Yeah. Yeah,

1141
01:32:34.960 --> 01:32:39.800
oh he's kind of a good deal. Yeah, I'm a big deal.

1142
01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:44.039
Now. Mine was so brief,
like you know, we were discussing

1143
01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:48.039
it on the big phone home the
other day and Louise his experience was minutes

1144
01:32:48.239 --> 01:32:54.640
long like much. Mine was seconds, you know, and so many people

1145
01:32:54.720 --> 01:32:58.359
from where you know, I'm actually
feel validated because so many people from the

1146
01:32:58.399 --> 01:33:03.600
Hudson Valley saw UFOs and so but
I didn't know that for not talking about

1147
01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:08.119
it for thirty years or forty years, whatever the hell it was. So

1148
01:33:08.920 --> 01:33:11.640
I'm fifty four, so you know, I was fourteen when it happened.

1149
01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:17.720
Anyway, all right, so what
is Let me just ask you the title

1150
01:33:17.800 --> 01:33:23.279
of your book before we wrap up
here. The working title is A Lift

1151
01:33:23.319 --> 01:33:27.359
out of Town, which nice.
It's like mmas that I have a title.

1152
01:33:27.399 --> 01:33:30.680
Normally titling things is like the hardest
part of writing for me. But

1153
01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:33.800
that's the title right now. It
could change, but that's that is the

1154
01:33:33.840 --> 01:33:38.800
title as far as you're concerned.
I know, I know, I know

1155
01:33:38.880 --> 01:33:42.319
one person who's buying it. Did
you have anything else you wanted to hit

1156
01:33:42.359 --> 01:33:46.119
on before we go? Lampy uh
No, I think we pretty much covered

1157
01:33:46.119 --> 01:33:49.800
everything like we went over on Julie
again. We talked about sort of the

1158
01:33:49.800 --> 01:33:56.399
state of UFO, Twitter, anything
else y'all want to say? Nathan,

1159
01:33:56.399 --> 01:34:00.359
do you have anything? I'm good
man, This has been a great chat

1160
01:34:00.359 --> 01:34:03.800
with you. Appreciate you taking time
out to speak with us on such short

1161
01:34:03.880 --> 01:34:08.439
notice. At that was great.
I had so much fun. Thank you

1162
01:34:08.479 --> 01:34:13.520
for inviting me. I love Yeah, definitely, You're welcome to come back

1163
01:34:13.560 --> 01:34:15.239
if you want to talk about something, you see something that you want to

1164
01:34:15.239 --> 01:34:19.760
bring up. I love to share
the platform, which is how you know

1165
01:34:19.920 --> 01:34:24.000
Nathan got on it. I'm happy
to you know. Dan Warren's been on

1166
01:34:24.039 --> 01:34:27.560
a couple of times. Luis's menus
has been on a couple of times.

1167
01:34:27.600 --> 01:34:30.359
Andy mcgrillan's been on at least two
or three times, so you know,

1168
01:34:31.159 --> 01:34:35.199
I'm all about it and I really
appreciate it. Again, I want to

1169
01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:40.720
thank you for your authenticity because it
was I think it was very obvious to

1170
01:34:40.840 --> 01:34:47.560
Nathan and I when your passions were
aroused about specific aspects. No, and

1171
01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:51.159
you know what that that's great.
I mean, that's that's what it's all

1172
01:34:51.159 --> 01:34:57.119
about. I mean, it's all
about connecting with people and being able to

1173
01:34:57.159 --> 01:34:59.960
tell what you feel and how you
feel. You guys saw me do it

1174
01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:02.600
it about Mick West a little while
ago, you know, and you did

1175
01:35:02.640 --> 01:35:05.920
it, you know, and so
that's what it's really all about. And

1176
01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:11.279
I'm so happy that we were able
to be here and experience that with you.

1177
01:35:11.319 --> 01:35:14.640
I really mean that. Okay,
thank you. It was great to

1178
01:35:14.640 --> 01:35:16.319
be here. Thank you. Girlfriend. We're gonna do it again. We

1179
01:35:16.359 --> 01:35:23.479
got to do another one of those
Twitter spaces. I actually said a professional

1180
01:35:23.640 --> 01:35:26.039
on there. You know, I
actually sounded like I knew what I was

1181
01:35:26.039 --> 01:35:30.399
talking about. For change, you
know, it was looking for the next

1182
01:35:30.399 --> 01:35:34.119
one, for sure. It was
cool party people. We are calling all

1183
01:35:34.239 --> 01:35:41.680
beings. That is sa At Lampey
nineteen forty seven, the same year the

1184
01:35:41.720 --> 01:35:47.880
Air Force was born, and the
same year of Roswell Air Force Birthdays coming

1185
01:35:47.960 --> 01:35:53.439
up in a couple of months.
That is Nathan at a Wave Soul on

1186
01:35:53.479 --> 01:35:58.279
Twitter. One of my latest blessings
in life over the last couple of months

1187
01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:03.640
has been Nathan joining and agreeing to
be my podcast partner and putting so much

1188
01:36:04.159 --> 01:36:08.880
work into this. We'll bring you
more guests. Who knows who we're gonna

1189
01:36:09.159 --> 01:36:13.680
have on next man, You know, I really want Lieutenant McMillan. There's

1190
01:36:13.720 --> 01:36:15.399
so many people I want to have
on and none of them are the same.

1191
01:36:15.920 --> 01:36:20.720
So yeah, it's a big family. It is so for Lambing nineteen

1192
01:36:20.800 --> 01:36:26.239
forty seven, For Nathan at a
Wave Soul, I am DJ saying peace

1193
01:36:26.239 --> 01:36:29.479
out, one love and we'll see
you down the road.