1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:28,519 with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:32,479 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,799 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:50,000 in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly 10 00:00:50,079 --> 00:00:55,960 and I'm Bill Thomas. You sound awfully chipper for a Monday. I try 11 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:03,319 my hartist for you. Whether you're actually feeling chipper or not, you're doing 12 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:08,239 your damnedest impression of a chip or sounding person. That is right. Yes, 13 00:01:08,519 --> 00:01:15,719 I've been working with my students performing the crucible all day long in class. 14 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,239 I may as well just go for broke with this voice and take all 15 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,120 the vocal performances I did, and just carry it over into right now, 16 00:01:23,439 --> 00:01:30,280 very Lauren becall Crucible. That's heavy stuff. Oh. I love the Crucible, 17 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,280 and usually the kids seem to enjoy it too, because we're hitting on 18 00:01:34,359 --> 00:01:38,359 big morality issues and then it always blows their mind right at the end when 19 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:44,439 I tell them, but actually it's also about the House on American Activities Committee 20 00:01:44,599 --> 00:01:49,040 and the hunt for communists, and then that kind of blows their little minds 21 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:53,319 a little bit, and you hold off on that until the end. Yes, 22 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,519 I hold off on that until the end. And then we do a 23 00:01:55,519 --> 00:02:00,439 comparison between all the events in the Crucible and the actual events of the House 24 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:04,359 in American Activities Committee and the Joe McCarthy hearings and all that. And as 25 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,639 you recall, my favorite question and I always want to ask on our podcast 26 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:13,400 is are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? 27 00:02:13,719 --> 00:02:15,560 And a lot of these kids, unfortunately, have to explain communism to 28 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,800 them, I know, And the thing is that that gets thrown around a 29 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,199 lot these days as an insult. Most people seem to be confusing communism and 30 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:29,520 socialism. They always seem to enjoy it once I'm able to bring in the 31 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,759 parallel thing and talk to them about Arthur Miller and how he was brought up 32 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,520 in front of Hugh act And then I throw in that he was married to 33 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,439 Marilyn Monroe, and that becomes the whole thing because I have to explain who 34 00:02:38,439 --> 00:02:42,520 Marilyn Monroe was. And I just started feeling old. And come on, 35 00:02:42,759 --> 00:02:46,039 they don't know who Marilyn Monroe is. Not a lot of them. If 36 00:02:46,039 --> 00:02:51,319 you show the picture, did they say, oh yeah, I kind of 37 00:02:52,199 --> 00:02:57,000 really Now for reference, I was just talking to my film class and none 38 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,400 of them knew who John Wayne was. Wow, I am, I'm now 39 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:05,840 it makes me feel old too. They didn't know who John Wayne was. 40 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,400 Now I'm really having to start from scratch with a lot of my film classes 41 00:03:08,479 --> 00:03:12,879 and explain. Okay, I feel like I need to do flash cards. 42 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,120 This is Kerry Grant, this is Jimmy Stewart, this is John Wayne. 43 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:23,080 It's okay. I like doing that. I like educating about amazing film stars 44 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,520 and directors and good movies and all of that. And I like doing the 45 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:30,479 same literature, which is why I'm still doing this job after sixteen years. 46 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:37,080 I had a colleague, a coworker who worked in our Los Angeles office at 47 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,000 ASCAP and I worked in the New York office, and she used to insist 48 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:46,919 that I reminded her of Spencer Tracy, which she meant as a compliment, 49 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:51,360 which I thought was awfully nice. But I'm sure if I mentioned Spencer Tracy 50 00:03:51,439 --> 00:03:54,560 to your students they'd be like, who what? Yeah, and just when 51 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:59,120 I hope that they would understand the reference with Katherine Heppern. They don't know 52 00:03:59,159 --> 00:04:02,199 who Catherine Heppern is either, but they're going to learn we're doing Bringing Up 53 00:04:02,199 --> 00:04:09,680 Baby next week. Great, So who would they know instead? Not a 54 00:04:09,719 --> 00:04:14,319 lot, unfortunately, So that is the point of the evolution of cinema class. 55 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,360 I am educating them. So now they do all know who Buster Keaton 56 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,519 is, Charlie Chaplin, the Marx Brothers. Like I'm educating them, yeah, 57 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,079 Lily, but Charley, those are actually important people, Yes they are. 58 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,480 And comedy is a great way to introduce other themes, yep, and 59 00:04:30,519 --> 00:04:35,639 that is why we start there and terms of their edumacation, I'm very impressed. 60 00:04:36,199 --> 00:04:41,439 I would love to take your film class. Honestly, I wonder if 61 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,519 maybe that's something I should be trying to figure out how to put up online 62 00:04:45,519 --> 00:04:50,399 and monetize or something like that. Absolutely. I am a major film buff 63 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:56,680 and one of the most enjoyable series of classes I took were film classes as 64 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,480 an undercrowd. We did one whole semester on the noir. We just did 65 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,839 that. Yeah, there's so much about classic film that I enjoy. I 66 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:10,399 like new movies too. My biggest complaint is that I feel like the current 67 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,399 studio and network system has destroyed motion picture as an art form. Yes, 68 00:05:15,519 --> 00:05:19,680 I agree, there's a lot of television, but there aren't really very many 69 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:25,759 great movies these days. Yes, I agree. Sound off in the comments 70 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,680 if you guys want miss Tilly to turn her evolution of cinema class into something 71 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,759 we can monetize and put up here as part of the podcast, sound off, 72 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,319 let me know. We could probably talk about movies. You're not gonna 73 00:05:35,319 --> 00:05:40,399 be able to show them, but yeah, unfortunately we can figure out some 74 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:43,319 fun. Well, if you want to do that without me, feel free, 75 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,800 but I would do that with you as well. That would be fun. 76 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,920 I cannot do a podcast all on my own because you have all the 77 00:05:47,959 --> 00:05:51,800 equipment. Oh okay, do you have the red caster? There is no 78 00:05:51,879 --> 00:05:58,279 way for me to record on my own. I've locked you into this partnership. 79 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,040 Yes, that's it. There is no way I can ever venture off 80 00:06:01,079 --> 00:06:05,160 on my own because I do not own the equipment. I have told many 81 00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:10,439 people. In addition to enjoying doing this true crime podcast with you, it 82 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,839 also means we divvy up all the work so that it's only half as much 83 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:18,639 work. There's a significant amount of effort that goes into creating a podcast, 84 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:25,079 and it's great to have somebody to divvy up the tasks with. On a 85 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,439 more serious note, shall we, I was going to say, I think 86 00:06:28,519 --> 00:06:31,000 it's about time for the intro to be over and get into the actual meat. 87 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,160 That was a longer intro than most, but fun. Uh it was. 88 00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:40,240 We so forgive us. We don't meander that much these days. No, 89 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,519 not normally, but it is. At the time of this recording, 90 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,519 it is November the thirteenth, and we are one month out from a event 91 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:54,439 that we were both very flattered and moved to be a part of, and 92 00:06:54,519 --> 00:07:00,279 that was the Keith Call Memorial that took place on a October the fourteenth, 93 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,399 So one month ago. That does mean it's been one whole entire month since 94 00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:09,560 we were last together in person, mister Thomas, Yeah, it doesn't seem 95 00:07:09,639 --> 00:07:14,680 like it's long ago. This month is flown by. I feel every month 96 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,959 flies by now. I was talking to someone today who said that she feels 97 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:25,040 that once Halloween hits, they just feel like it's one major holiday after another. 98 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:30,600 Yep, We've got Halloween and then Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Year's And 99 00:07:30,639 --> 00:07:38,040 I know different people celebrate whether Tonica or Kwanza or d Wali or other festival 100 00:07:38,079 --> 00:07:43,040 of light, fest of us for the rest of us, or they're pagan 101 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:48,839 rituals, which all seem to be around December twenty first, These holidays seem 102 00:07:48,879 --> 00:07:53,160 to come hot and heavy as we head into the last part of the year. 103 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,720 They do, they do, And so yeah, it does not feel 104 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,519 like it has been four weeks since we last such other but us, as 105 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:07,920 I said before, honored and flattered to be part of this really lovely memorial 106 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:13,879 service that was put together for Keith Call by his family and by the folks 107 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:22,120 at the Cumberland Historic Cemetery Association. Can you explain a little bit about the 108 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:28,360 Cumberland Historic Cemetery Organization. The Cumberland Historic Cemetery Organization is based in Maryland, 109 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,919 and it's run by a wonderful guy named Ed Taylor Junior. He's the president. 110 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:41,279 He is from Maryland, obviously from Cumberland, and they have been doing 111 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:48,679 a hundred of monuments and dedications primarily to historic figures. But you don't necessarily 112 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:54,519 have to be a president or a general or whatever to be honored by the 113 00:08:54,559 --> 00:09:01,279 cemetery organization. They've made it their work to add stone where stones and markers 114 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:07,240 would not have been placed. So as they learned about historic figures, and 115 00:09:07,279 --> 00:09:11,679 these can be everything from slaves to generals, a lot of soldiers on both 116 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:18,000 the Union and Confederate side. They try to highlight people who have been not 117 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:24,120 properly acknowledged in terms of their contributions. So they do a lot of things 118 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:31,279 with historic cemeteries throughout Maryland. Mister Taylor was aware of the Colonial Parkway murderers 119 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,399 and he took the kind of unusual step a few months ago. This probably 120 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:39,159 would have been last spring, would be my guess, because I heard about 121 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,879 this from Joyce Call, Canada. Keith's sister. Ed Taylor had reached out 122 00:09:43,919 --> 00:09:48,360 to her and said that he was interested in finding out if the Call family 123 00:09:48,799 --> 00:09:54,799 was willing to allow the cemetery organization to place a marker in his honor, 124 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,519 and this led to a really interesting conversation with you and I participate paid in, 125 00:10:00,759 --> 00:10:05,639 which is when a person goes missing, like Keith Call and Cassandra Haley 126 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:11,080 have in the Colonial Parkway murders, there's usually never an event that marks that 127 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:16,840 missing status. You are always hoping, I think that the person will make 128 00:10:16,879 --> 00:10:22,440 their way back home somehow, that they've been lost or kidnapped. I mean, 129 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,120 we've heard stories over the years. For the most part, missing people 130 00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:33,320 either return relatively quickly or they're gone for a long period of time, But 131 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:39,039 in both examples, you're not marking their departure. Do you recall some of 132 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:46,840 our conversations from the spring I do. I remember Joyce calling and saying, 133 00:10:46,919 --> 00:10:50,440 what are some of the things that we might like to do to mark this 134 00:10:50,639 --> 00:10:56,360 occasion, and that we all spend some time together talking about what are the 135 00:10:56,799 --> 00:11:01,679 things that we can do. Do we want to have pictures up of Keith? 136 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:03,399 Of course, absolutely, you want to have pictures up. We also 137 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,960 talked about do we want to have a like a memorial book that people can 138 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,879 write it to mark the occasion? And who all was there, and we'd 139 00:11:11,879 --> 00:11:15,399 thought about that, and we went back and forth on it a little bit, 140 00:11:15,399 --> 00:11:18,200 and ultimately that part of it didn't happen. But we were talking about, 141 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,080 like, how do we want to commemorate this, Who do we want 142 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,759 to speak? I did not expect to speak. I was a little taken 143 00:11:26,759 --> 00:11:30,080 aback when Ed was like, we'd like you to speak, and I'm like, 144 00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:33,200 you don't, because, as we all know, I am not a 145 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,519 fan of public speaking. But we definitely spend a lot of time trying to 146 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,600 figure out what do we want this to look like, both the ceremony, 147 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,679 the before and the afterward. How do we all want to come together afterward 148 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,120 and talk, and who do we want to have commemorate this along with all 149 00:11:50,159 --> 00:11:58,759 of us. I was really pleased overall with the array of people who showed 150 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,600 up to speak and to commit memorate Keith and his life and his memory. 151 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:09,320 It ended up being a much more emotional event than I was anticipating it being, 152 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,960 to be perfectly frank, I was not expecting to come away from it 153 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,879 feeling like as emotionally wrung out as I was at the end of the day. 154 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,320 I don't know if that's the same for you. It was. I 155 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,720 know. One of the things we talked about when this idea first came up 156 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,639 was, first of all, Joyce wanted to consult with her brothers to see 157 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,919 if this was even something that they wanted to do. Ed had made the 158 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,720 offer, which is a very kind and generous offer. They were going to 159 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:43,960 cover the cost of creating this beautiful stone, which would be almost like a 160 00:12:43,039 --> 00:12:50,080 grave mark, with the hope that this would be placed in the Call family's 161 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,799 cemetery plot at the cemetery in Hayes, Virginia. So in the early going, 162 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,960 Joyce needed to consult with her brothers. So she talked to her brother's 163 00:13:00,159 --> 00:13:05,679 Chris, Doug Stephen and her aunt Lou Call. Yeah, yeah, who's 164 00:13:05,759 --> 00:13:13,519 absolutely wonderful. Mister and missus Call, Richard Call and Barbara Call, Keith's 165 00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:16,600 parents and the parents to the five kids. They're both gone now and they're 166 00:13:16,639 --> 00:13:22,879 actually both buried in this cemetery Rose Well in Hayes, Virginia. Part of 167 00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:28,600 the early discussion was amongst the Call family, and you and I were in 168 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,879 an advisory passage. This is certainly something they have to decide. Are we 169 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:39,759 going to accept mister Taylor's kind offer? And so they discussed it amongst themselves. 170 00:13:39,759 --> 00:13:43,200 Most of the family lives in Virginia, Chris lives town in Florida, 171 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,960 so they talked about it, and then they circled back with us and they 172 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,919 said, we think we want to move forward. And then that then led 173 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,919 to the discussion you're talking about, which is what does this look like? 174 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:58,360 And as we were talking about at the top of this conversation, when someone 175 00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:05,320 goes missing, there isn't an opportunity to have a memorial service or a funeral 176 00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:09,200 because of this hope that they'll come back. When it gets to be thirty 177 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,399 five years later and Keith and Sandy haven't come back, you begin to get 178 00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:16,159 to a place and this is a hard place to be, which is more 179 00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:20,759 of an acceptance that it is not likely that Keith and Sandy are going to 180 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:26,840 walk back through the door. They're lost to us forever. So you begin 181 00:14:26,919 --> 00:14:30,919 to think of this as a little bit more like a memorial service. And 182 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,159 even then I had to probe a little bit because again this is up to 183 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,159 the call family and keeping in mind that Keith and Sandy were on a first 184 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,720 date, but it's not like this would be a joint ceremony or anything like 185 00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:50,679 that. Mister Taylor actually has extended an offer to the Haley family as well 186 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:52,840 if they would like to do something in the future, which is again very 187 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:58,080 kind. I asked, is there a religious component to this thing? Like 188 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,480 what does a moment memorial service, which is what we began talking about, 189 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:09,039 this sort of dedication of the stone, What does that look like and what 190 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,759 does that feel like? Now? In the end, this ended up feeling 191 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:16,639 quite a bit like a funeral or a memorial service. To me, it 192 00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:22,840 did. We were at a gravesite, literally standing on mister and missus Call's 193 00:15:22,279 --> 00:15:31,159 graves when we spoke on this incredibly rainy oh Man day, the sky's kind 194 00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:35,320 of just opened up on us. It was an interesting, but emotionally very 195 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:43,720 moving experience, I think because the unanswered questions still remain here it is now 196 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:48,840 thirty five years later. One of the things that kind of needed to be 197 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:54,360 balanced out, and this is something that Joyce and Chris and Doug and I 198 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,919 and you had all talked about, is how much do we want to bring 199 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:03,639 up the other cases in this particular seriesly? In other words, do we 200 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:10,840 treat Keith and Sandra's disappearance as this is an event that we recognize happen and 201 00:16:10,879 --> 00:16:14,200 we would like to talk just about Keith and Sandra, or do we fold 202 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,159 in the others as well? When You and I sat down to write our 203 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,320 remarks, we did this separately. I know you and I wanted to figure 204 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,279 out, like, are we on the same page in terms of message? 205 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,320 And part of that message was how much guff do we want to give the 206 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:36,480 FBI? And the answer ended up being not too terribly much. Again, 207 00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:40,639 not my call, I know, not either of our calls, but we 208 00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:45,399 had to defer to the Tall family. But we also needed to figure out 209 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,080 how do we approach the rest of this Do we also bring in Kathy and 210 00:16:49,159 --> 00:16:52,799 Becky, David and Robin and Anna, Maria and Daniel, or do we 211 00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:57,519 keep them separate. We ended up having additional speakers other than us, who 212 00:16:57,559 --> 00:17:03,200 did bring in all aspects of the case, and so it did feel in 213 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,000 a lot of ways that not only were we memorializing Keith, we were also 214 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:14,440 in a way memorializing all of the other people who were lost to this series 215 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,400 of cases as well. One of the things that came out of the discussions, 216 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:26,119 particularly with Joyce and Joyce is the oldest sister Joyce is the spokesperson for 217 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,759 the Call Family. And one of the things that came out of our conversations 218 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:34,039 with Joyce, who's absolutely wonderful, is she said, we think we want 219 00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:37,720 to do this in the fall, and then she got more specific as the 220 00:17:37,759 --> 00:17:41,640 plans began to come together, she said, I would like to do this 221 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:47,720 close to the date that Kathy and Becky went missing. And this was very 222 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,839 deliberate on her part. And then she started to tell me and I think 223 00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:56,920 us you participated in some face to face discussions in Virginia that I wasn't there 224 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:03,279 for Keith's passing, which obviously this memorial service, this dedication of the stone 225 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,319 marks. Joyce didn't want to let the opportunity go by, and she said 226 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:12,400 this directly, I don't want to let the opportunity to go by to fail 227 00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:18,319 to acknowledge all of the victims in the Colonial Parkway murders. And they actually 228 00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:23,920 included Brian Pettinger and Lori and Powell. So Joyce said, I want you 229 00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:27,960 to talk about all of the victims. And so I said something in my 230 00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:33,839 remarks about the Call family has asked me to help put Keith's disappearance and this 231 00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:41,279 loss in context with what was going on back then. So we have a 232 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,599 celebration of Keith's life and an acknowledgment of the loss. But at the same 233 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,519 time, Joyce is saying, we're not letting the opportunity go by to not 234 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:55,160 continue to put pressure on the FBI and the Virginia State Police to put resources 235 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,799 into these cases. And she said, I'm sorry, I'm just we're not 236 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,640 just going to celebrate Keith and do nothing. Further, we'd be missing a 237 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:12,960 phenomenal opportunity to keep putting pressure on law enforcement. Hence some of our remarks. 238 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,559 I actually noticed there was a theme there. Yes, the families talked 239 00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:22,680 about Keith. You and I can't really talk about Keith because we didn't meet 240 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,319 No no Keith. The guests, if you will, that is, people 241 00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:33,079 whose last name isn't call We mostly spoke about the larger picture, yeah, 242 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,519 because we don't have the privilege of having known Keith in this life. We 243 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:44,480 talked about the larger loss of all of the victims in the Colonial Parkway murders 244 00:19:44,519 --> 00:19:51,319 and how Keith and Sanders's disappearance fits into that overall puzzle. One of the 245 00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:56,720 discussions, I went out to Joyce's house one afternoon after school for a sit 246 00:19:56,759 --> 00:20:00,160 down discussion with her and one of her brothers. We sat down and we 247 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,480 tried to figure out, Okay, if we want to put this in context 248 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,119 of all of the different cases, and we do, and we want this 249 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:15,880 to be a call for renewed resources and energy and attention and all of those 250 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:21,480 things that we want. Who do we want to invite to this? And 251 00:20:21,559 --> 00:20:26,440 we sat down and we created an invitation list. This is all the people 252 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,279 that we want to come. And we had every intention in the world of 253 00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:37,240 putting together a master list of everybody in law enforcement, state and federal government 254 00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:40,480 that we could think of that we could invite to this event. And we 255 00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:45,400 did. We came up with a massive list. I went home and found 256 00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:49,680 mail in addresses for every single person on that list, and then Ed Taylor 257 00:20:51,319 --> 00:20:56,599 made sure that an invitation about this event was sent to every single person on 258 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:02,319 that list. And that list went from the governor, lieutenant governor, the 259 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,519 attorney general, like everybody that you can think of in state, local, 260 00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:08,839 federal government, you name it, anybody who would have heard of the case. 261 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,079 We sent one to the current sheriff, to the former sheriff, We 262 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:18,559 sent a ton of invitations out, not just to government officials and law enforcement, 263 00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:21,720 but also to the media. We made sure there was no stone unturned 264 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,599 because we wanted this to be an opportunity for there to be media coverage of 265 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,880 this case and to make sure that people are still aware this has not been 266 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,480 solved. There is still much work that needs to be done, and we 267 00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:38,240 still need the focus to be on what can we do to solve these cases. 268 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:44,400 The unfortunate part I think at the event of being up under the tent 269 00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:47,400 was I couldn't see the rest of the crowd, so I don't know how 270 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,000 many people did or did not make it. I certainly figure we would have 271 00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:53,519 heard if the governor was there. I'm pretty sure he didn't make it. 272 00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:57,960 But I was curious how many people from our master list of we would like 273 00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:02,839 to show up. I'm wondering if any of them actually did show because I 274 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,599 have no way of knowing. There were representatives there from various political offices. 275 00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:15,519 Mostly, I think in a situation like that you're looking to create awareness, 276 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:21,680 their physical presence wasn't as critical as letting them know that this case goes on, 277 00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:26,920 that they're having a memorial service for Keith call on October fourteenth. There 278 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:33,720 were staff there and there was media there. It wasn't as large a crowd 279 00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:38,559 as I had hoped for, but the weather was the worst I've ever seen. 280 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:45,839 Oh, it was so bad cold and driving rain was terrible. It 281 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,720 was horrible, just absolutely dreadful, even under the big blue tent, which 282 00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:55,160 was spread out to give the family a place to sit out of the rain. 283 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,720 I'm putting air quotes around that, because that tent was leaking like a 284 00:22:57,799 --> 00:23:00,720 sip. There was just so much coming. Oh my god, it was 285 00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:04,359 awful. And there were probably fifty or seventy five people there, all with 286 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:10,240 umbrellas surrounding the blue tent, but we couldn't all fit underneath it, and 287 00:23:10,279 --> 00:23:15,200 they were just trying to stay warm and dry. You're listening to Mind Over 288 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:30,440 Murder. Will be right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back 289 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:36,119 here at Mindover Murder. People told me outside the tent. I did leave 290 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,799 at one point and walk around while the ceremony was still going on, because 291 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,839 I was looking for someone. Being outside the tent with all of the umbrellas, 292 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,400 it made it hard to hear. Yeah, we were using a PA 293 00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:56,240 system with that many people crowded into this confined space, and then all the 294 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,599 umbrellas, which were doing their best to bend off the rain, they were 295 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,319 also causing the sound to be somewhat muffled, so it was less than ideal 296 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:10,240 in terms of conditions. But we'd made a decision, Joyce again with her 297 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,880 call to decide are we still going to do this thing Graveside or not? 298 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,480 And she decided yes, we were going to do that. The weather did 299 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:22,000 not cooperate. No, oh, it really didn't. It really didn't, 300 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,599 Which is also part of the reason why we were doing this episode today is 301 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,759 we want to make sure that everyone who was not able to be there, 302 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,880 or who wanted to be but for various reasons could not be you're in a 303 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,799 different state, you're in a different country, or whatever else. We wanted 304 00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:41,240 to give you the opportunity to hear our remarks, which we are going to 305 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:48,519 share with you shortly. I definitely left that service and then the get together 306 00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:55,160 at Abington Church afterward feeling like a wet, rung out sponge. And it 307 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,079 wasn't just because it had been raining, it was it was pretty emotional, 308 00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:03,039 and I had that anticipated it being that emotional because as you'd said before. 309 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,599 I didn't know Keith. By the time Keith and Sandra disappeared, it was 310 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,759 eighty eight, I was seven years old. I had no way of knowing 311 00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:19,599 Keith. My dad knew the Call family, So there is that connection there. 312 00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:25,400 I have no way of being emotionally connected other than through this case. 313 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,519 But I still found it very, very moving and rather sad. I tried 314 00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:37,200 to hold it together best I could. It was very moving, an emotionally 315 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,839 strenuous day. I found it to be the same, and I encountered more 316 00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:48,079 of an emotional response in myself than I had anticipated as well. I think 317 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,759 we're all so invested in seeing the Colonial Parkray murders solved, and the Call 318 00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:59,720 family has been so steadfast and has worked so hard to see this mystery through. 319 00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:04,440 And we're talking about over thirty five years. They've done amazing work advocacy 320 00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:11,000 and creating a nonprofit organization to help their family and other families of missing and 321 00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:18,039 murdered people in Virginia be properly acknowledged. They've testified before the State House, 322 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:25,359 and they have worked incredibly hard in the media and behind the scenes to try 323 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,000 to keep this case moving forward. I looked to them as this amazing beacon 324 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:36,599 of hope. And it was just incredibly difficult to look at this line of 325 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,079 people sitting there, dressed up in the front row as the rain just came 326 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,119 pouring down and the community came out to show its support, and it was 327 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,839 very sad. It's just incredibly difficult to look out at the call family and 328 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,599 all of their family and friends gathered around to acknowledge Heath's passing in this way. 329 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,839 On some level, you could argue it's over do, but I don't 330 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:06,720 know when the right time is to shift your thinking from my brother is missing 331 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,279 to my brother's never coming back. That's a very difficult transition to live through. 332 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,720 But I found it really difficult as well. I actually thought you held 333 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,640 it together better than I did. It was hard. Part of the difficulty 334 00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:22,559 for me was also knowing how much you were struggling that day too, because 335 00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:27,599 you don't normally. It's a little bit of inside baseball here for our listeners. 336 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:33,200 Bill is one of the most cool, composed, keep it together people 337 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,759 I think I've ever met. There have been times when I have seen interviewers 338 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,039 try to get a rise out of him or get an emotional reaction out of 339 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,680 him in ways that I don't appreciate, because that's clearly what they're going for. 340 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:49,000 Yeah, don't do that, that's not cool. Yeah, but a 341 00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:53,279 lot of them do it. And actually I've done so many of these I 342 00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:56,720 can hear it coming. They do it for the local news, they do 343 00:27:56,759 --> 00:28:02,960 it for the national programs. It's unfortunate. I don't know why they feel 344 00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:07,160 they want to see the family break down. It's beyond me. I think 345 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,519 what they're getting at is they're trying to convey the pain of the laws. 346 00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:15,440 I don't think it's necessary, and I resist it, but it's difficult. 347 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:22,440 I've choked up any number of times because I have certain hotspots, certain hot 348 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,400 button, Yeah, certain hot buttons that mostly center around my family and my 349 00:28:26,519 --> 00:28:32,519 parents. We're both gone now. Their reaction to losing my sister, and 350 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,200 I can imagine the Call family, and I never met mister and missus Call 351 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,720 probably went through something very similar. And certainly we've gotten to know members of 352 00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:44,640 the Call family, the siblings and there aren't lou quite well over the years, 353 00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:49,000 and I think their experience was similar. I was also really gratified and 354 00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:53,799 moved to see and I didn't notice it when we were at the graveside service, 355 00:28:53,799 --> 00:29:00,200 but I certainly saw a number of people as we proceeded over to the 356 00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:04,480 church to do a little reception. I was really moved at the number of 357 00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:11,759 family members of other victims who came to express their love and support, and 358 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,359 that, more than anything else, I think was what choked me up at 359 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,920 times too. I know that I did not expect to see some of the 360 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,039 people there that I saw. I'm thrilled that they were there. I was 361 00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:25,640 so glad to see them, but I didn't expect it, and there were 362 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,759 times when it was like, oh, man, this is wow, because 363 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,599 it speaks to the bond that all of these families have together. You have 364 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,880 been asked to join the club that nobody wanted to in this club, in 365 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,480 particular, these eight families here, all of these people showed up for it. 366 00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:47,720 That was very moving and touching. Keith call Memorial Remarks, October fourteenth, 367 00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:52,279 twenty twenty three. Good afternoon. My name is Bill Thomas. Some 368 00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:55,920 of you may know me as the older brother of Kathy Thomas. Together with 369 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,680 a girlfriend, Rebecca Dowski, were the first two victims in this still unsolved 370 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,880 Clube Parkway murders. Others may know me from the Mind over Murder true crime 371 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,039 podcast, which I co host with Kristin Dilly. I want to thank all 372 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,559 of you for being here today, a day to celebrate Keith Call, his 373 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,640 life and his memory. I was not lucky enough to meet Keith during his 374 00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:19,039 short time here. That club, the Friends of Keith Call, is a 375 00:30:19,119 --> 00:30:23,200 very exclusive one that is no longer accepting members. I am sad to say, 376 00:30:23,519 --> 00:30:26,440 yet I feel that I know Keith through the love of his family and 377 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,720 friends, the people that knew him well and admired him the most. It 378 00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:34,839 might sound odd, but I actually find Keith to be an inspiring figure in 379 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,440 my own life. Whether it is his love of family, a fun of 380 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,559 computers, or even the rock band You Too. There is much to be 381 00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:48,319 admired about Keith's impact in his all too short life, and always there is 382 00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:52,519 something about Keith that just makes me smile. In speaking with you today, 383 00:30:52,559 --> 00:30:57,240 the Call family asked me to place Keith's loss in context, which leads me 384 00:30:57,279 --> 00:31:03,319 to the Colonial Parkway murders. Keith and his friend Sandy disappeared in April nineteen 385 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,920 eighty eight, and their loss is considered to be part of the Colonial Parkway 386 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,960 murders. Now, this is a club that not one of us wanted to 387 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,519 be asked to join. It can be a very hard place to be the 388 00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:18,720 worst part about losing Keith and Sandy is the waiting. I can tell you 389 00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:22,799 that it's hard to lose one's daughter, son, sister, or brother and 390 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,440 wait thirty five years or answers. Just ask the call and Haley family. 391 00:31:29,079 --> 00:31:32,839 It's hard for the family of Robin Edwards and David Nobling to wait thirty six 392 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,279 years for answers. It's hard for the family of Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel 393 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:41,960 Lower to wait thirty four years for answers. And finally, it's hard for 394 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,799 the families of Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski to wait for answers for thirty seven 395 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,839 years. Last week. For many of us, words like closure and justice 396 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,759 seem almost alien At this point. For my family, it seems all we 397 00:31:56,839 --> 00:32:01,599 are seeking is answers. To that end, I renew our call to FBI, 398 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:07,640 Norfolk and the Virginia State Police and all other law enforcement agencies involved in 399 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,160 this case to redouble your efforts to solve it. We need your time, 400 00:32:12,359 --> 00:32:16,480 attention, and resources. Only through your continued hard work and dedication, will 401 00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:21,720 we be able to have the answers we've been seeking for so long. Experts 402 00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:27,240 tell us that the Colonial Parkway murders is a solvable case. Let's make the 403 00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:32,559 loss of Keith, Sandy, Robin, David, Anna, Daniel, Kathy 404 00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:37,279 and Becky and the families who continue to wait a priority. But thanks to 405 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:43,720 Ed Taylor of the Cumberland Historic Cemetery Organization and the members of the Call family 406 00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:46,599 for organizing this memorial tribute to Keith, and to all of you for showing 407 00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:51,400 that you care about Keith and all the victims of the Colonial Parkway murders. 408 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,839 I was there listening to you say that. I feel like I was hearing 409 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,279 those remarks again for the first time. Honestly, I don't know if it's 410 00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:02,279 because I was an a state of fear because I had to get up and 411 00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:07,319 speak after you, or what. I don't know what it was that I 412 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:09,319 was listening to that and going did he say that? The first step I'm 413 00:33:09,359 --> 00:33:12,640 around that, I realize, of course you must have. I know you 414 00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:16,319 did. But that was really lovely remarks. Thank you tell us what you 415 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:22,079 told us all right here in mine, good afternoon. My name is Kristin 416 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,039 Dilly. I'm the co host of the Mind Over Murder podcast along with my 417 00:33:25,119 --> 00:33:30,839 partner Bill Thomas. I'm also a victim's advocate who's been involved with the Colonial 418 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,480 Parkway murders cases since twenty sixteen. I'm honored to be able to speak to 419 00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:38,200 you today. Each week, as Bill and I do our research and reporting 420 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,720 for the podcast, we find ourselves running into the term closure. It's a 421 00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:46,880 term that is kindly meant, often used after an arrest or once the case 422 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:52,279 has been adjudicated, as in what a relief Now these families have closure. 423 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,680 Neither of us like that word. Both of us shy away from it in 424 00:33:55,759 --> 00:34:01,519 our reporting. That's because closure is anomer for the families of those who have 425 00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:07,680 been murdered or gone missing. When someone is deprived of the opportunity to say 426 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,440 goodbye, to make amends, or to express their love a final time due 427 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,760 to a sudden and traumatic loss, Closure is an impossibility. For the Call 428 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,800 and the Haley families, and for all of those who loved Keith and Sandy. 429 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,199 Closure or anything close to it will never happen while these two young people 430 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,559 remain missing, and while their killer goes uncought. As long as there is 431 00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:36,800 a hole in the world where a loved one should have been. There can 432 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,039 be no closure. There can, however, be answers. There can be 433 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,559 justice. Even after three decades, these things are possible. Forensic science and 434 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:52,559 technology have advanced to a point that hardly seem possible thirty seven years ago. 435 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,159 Now, minuscule amounts of DNA can be tested and killers caught. As a 436 00:34:58,199 --> 00:35:02,000 result, cases older than this are being solved on a nearly daily basis. 437 00:35:02,599 --> 00:35:08,079 As law enforcement invests time, attention, and resources into their oldest, coldest 438 00:35:08,119 --> 00:35:15,239 cases, it is increasingly obvious that cases like the Colonial Parkway murders are solvable. 439 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,159 This gives me hope that soon it will be our turn. Maybe today 440 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,960 will be the day when answers are found. Maybe today will be the day 441 00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:30,400 when the road to justice extends before us. Until there are answers, and 442 00:35:30,519 --> 00:35:36,199 until there is justice, memory and friendship and fellowship remain. I hope today 443 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,199 is a day in which the memories of a life with Keith in it are 444 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:44,360 a comfort and a solace to those who loved him. And I hope that 445 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,840 this beautiful stone is a reminder of a life well lived, although it was 446 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,880 a life cut all too short. Answers will come for Keith, Sandy and 447 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,960 all the victims in this case, justice will come. I look forward to 448 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,280 the day we can sell write them together. Thank you very nicely done. 449 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,480 I was about to say this is the first time I've ever spoken out of 450 00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:12,239 memorial service, and then I just realized that I'm wrong. Actually, I 451 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,920 had to speak at a friend's memorial service in college. I have not enjoyed 452 00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:21,239 either task, just because it's so tough to have to do, it's so 453 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,639 painful. But I felt like when all was said and done, even though 454 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,440 it was a very emotionally upsetting day, I think that it went really well. 455 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:37,679 And I think that we accomplished something, if only in making sure that 456 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,719 there is a service that Keith's family can remember in a way in which we 457 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,679 were able to say goodbye to him. And I think one of the things 458 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:51,159 that the placement of the stone in the family's burial plot there at the Roosewelt 459 00:36:51,199 --> 00:36:54,679 Cemetery, it gives them a place to go. This is something that several 460 00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,519 of the Call family siblings mentioned was we never had a place to go to 461 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:07,440 mark Keith's passing, or pray for him or think about him. Now obviously 462 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,119 You can do those things anywhere. You could kneel in your own backyard, 463 00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:15,719 or go for a walk on the beach, or go to one of Keith's 464 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:20,119 favorite places. But I think for a lot of people it's very helpful to 465 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,920 have a place that you can go to mark the passage of time, the 466 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,760 fact that you're still thinking about your loved ones. Much in the same way 467 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:35,280 you might go to mister and Missus Call's graves and place flowers on Mother's Day 468 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,679 and Father's Day and at other times of the year. I think the wonderful 469 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:45,719 offer from the Cumberland Historic Cemetery Organization allowed the Call family to have a place 470 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,719 now that they can think of as Keith's. As we talked about before, 471 00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:55,840 we're hoping that at some point Keith and Sandy's remains will be located, however 472 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:01,559 small they might be, that those remains would be placed, in Keith's example, 473 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:07,760 at that cemetery plot for the Hayleys, at a place they might designate. 474 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,960 If we accomplished nothing else, I think that was time well spent on 475 00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:17,360 a rainy Saturday in October. Actually, I think if there was any cosmic 476 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:22,119 indicator, that was time well spent. Do you want to tell our listeners 477 00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:27,800 what happened when you turned on your radio to go over to the church. 478 00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:30,679 I think some people who listened to the podcast know that I worked in the 479 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,079 music business for a lot of years. I knew that Keith was a big 480 00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:39,679 music fan. And there's this wonderful video which we've seen of Keith a few 481 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:45,679 months before he died, waiting in line to see a then very popular rock 482 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,599 band called You Two, which is one of my favorites. I just thought 483 00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:52,440 it was so wonderful. I climbed into the car at the end of this 484 00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:57,400 ceremony and I turned on my satellite radio to drive over to the church, 485 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,440 and what was playing a wonderful You Uti And I thought, there's a nice 486 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:07,719 little sign from Keith that everything's fine and that his favorite band is playing wherever 487 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,559 he is. No, I agree. I thought that one was great. 488 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,199 And then later on, after I was leaving the church service to drive back 489 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,840 across the water, the exact same thing happened to me. Turn on the 490 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,639 car radio for a song where the streets have no Name, You Too, 491 00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:29,119 And I thought, wow, Keith would love that. If there is any 492 00:39:29,159 --> 00:39:34,159 sort of cosmic synchronicity out there, it was happening on that day. We 493 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,559 did have listeners who showed up for this memorial, and really that means a 494 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:42,199 lot to us. It means a lot to the Call family, it means 495 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,039 a lot to us, and we can't thank you enough for those of you 496 00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:50,840 that took up the time to come out. There was a listener there who 497 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,559 shot video of the whole entire thing and put it up on YouTube. It 498 00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:59,280 is very meaningful that this has impacted the community the way that it has. 499 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,639 So for those of our listeners who did show up on that day and it 500 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,519 just took the time to say hello, thank you all so much. It 501 00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:10,239 is amazing that you're willing to show up for that, especially on a day 502 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,559 like that it was so rainy. We do have a link to the YouTube 503 00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:21,280 video of those remarks and we will put that in our show notes, and 504 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,400 of course we will also link their photos from that day as well. Thank 505 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,559 you all so much for listening and for taking the time to listen to us 506 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,840 recount our remarks from that particular day. That's going to do it for this 507 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,039 episode of mind Ever Murder. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see 508 00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:52,679 you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another 509 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:58,519 Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo 510 00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:02,119 art is by Pamela and Wah. Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 511 00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:08,000 Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. You can follow 512 00:41:08,119 --> 00:41:13,239 us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our page 513 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,559 on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill 514 00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:22,599 Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you for listening to 515 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:23,239 mind Over Murder.