WEBVTT

1
00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:46.520
Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

2
00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:54.520
Alejandro Rojas, and I have with
me my news Dude Martin podcast UFO.

3
00:00:55.439 --> 00:01:00.799
Willis that's me. That's a little
sing song way that you said that there

4
00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:04.280
you must be happiness. Well,
yeah, you announced my show. It's

5
00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:07.879
a free plug already. How can
it get any better? I know,

6
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.159
love in the plugs, Love in
the pugs. It's the least I can

7
00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:17.959
do for you, coming and doing
the show almost every week, even when

8
00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:26.280
you're in Russia or Austria or wherever
the heck you are. Yeah, even

9
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:30.680
when the weather out there is atrocious. And how is it right now?

10
00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.040
We have a beautiful fall season right
now. You're in Maine, right,

11
00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:42.760
I'm in Maine, and it's what
we would call crisp, nice crisp mornings,

12
00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:47.879
dew on the grass. The leaves
are starting to turn. And I

13
00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:49.040
don't know if you know this,
but in you know, the area where

14
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:56.400
I live in New England, it's
the number one foliage see in the entire

15
00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:01.079
world, with I think Japan the
second. So we have people just of

16
00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:06.439
course it's just starting now, but
we have people just flocked to the area

17
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:09.080
and you can't even go like toward
the White Mountains or anything like that.

18
00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:14.520
It's just packed. Wow, that's
amazing. So we'll get into UFOs really

19
00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.479
soon here. But I have one
more question about the area that you live

20
00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:24.080
in. I recently have been watching
Castle Rock and actually we blew through the

21
00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:30.879
whole season, uh, and it
was very goods Are the is main known

22
00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:38.879
for a lot of weird people who
kind of kill others? Is that your

23
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.759
question? Yeah, because I mean
that is where I guess Stephen King's from

24
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:47.479
and where a lot of books are
centered. So yeah, he does.

25
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:54.520
He lives in Benga Bang, that's
right, which is north of me,

26
00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:59.800
about one hundred and twenty five or
one hundred and thirty miles something like that,

27
00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:05.800
and he's got a great imagination.
Now, you do have some very

28
00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:10.080
colorful characters in the state, that's
for sure. But as far as murders,

29
00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:15.439
I think it's not too many murders
that I know of in the state.

30
00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.960
It's pretty low good so happens.
I don't think there's ever been a

31
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:25.039
time. Are you much of a
Stephen King officionado? I started reading Stephen

32
00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:31.240
King back in the nineteen seventies.
For most of your listening audience wasn't even

33
00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:37.319
born yet, because, like you
said, he's very creative and essentially at

34
00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.840
the end of the books. I
read a lot of his books, and

35
00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:46.879
ninety percent of the time I'm disappointed
in the ending because it's usually some sort

36
00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:53.879
of supernatural force that is responsible for
whatever crazy is going on in the book,

37
00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:59.680
and it's usually just weird, doesn't
make sense. And it is creative,

38
00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:03.360
I guess, but it's never aliens, And I wonder maybe I can

39
00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:09.560
Tom. Yeah, that one was
alien. It was well, that was

40
00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:14.159
everyone was getting like real, they
were doing like really weird stuff in the

41
00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:16.560
town and everyone was acting really bizarre. And what it was was there a

42
00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:21.959
there was a UFO buried under the
ground, like really deep and it was

43
00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:28.720
like coming back to life. Oh
yeah, wacky about it around it.

44
00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.120
Oh so I forgot about that.
That was a good one. Yeah,

45
00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:35.680
that was a good one. Yeah. I I My first Stephen King book

46
00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:40.879
that I read was called The Shining
m Oh. Yeah, that's great.

47
00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.360
I was living in Colorado at the
time and that set place out and you

48
00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:48.839
were I was, Yeah, I
was living out in the uh not in

49
00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:51.879
the Denver more in the Boulder area. Long lot. You must have.

50
00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:57.879
Yeah. Well, what's funny too, is is there is a reference to

51
00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:02.319
well a lot of his older books
in Castle Rock, and there's a shining

52
00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:06.240
reference where one of the characters was
like, yeah, I was working at

53
00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:11.680
this hotel in Colorado in the winter. But that was kind of funny.

54
00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.240
Anyway, Okay, getting directly into
UFO stuff. And I want to tell

55
00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:19.279
people who my guest is, because
my guest is a very unique individual.

56
00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:24.240
Wow, you've been I've been waiting. I've been waiting for you to tell

57
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.360
me who the guest is. You
were making guesses. You thought maybe it

58
00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:32.480
was dan Aykroyd, you thought maybe
Tom DeLong, and and then you thought

59
00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:39.959
George Clooney for some reason, and
that was probably your closest because well,

60
00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.720
and I'm breaking the news tea now
I guess, but you're my guest.

61
00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:53.680
Oh oh, thank you, thank
you. We're just pretending. Mark Martin

62
00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:57.000
already knew here's the guest. But
yeah, So sometimes we like to do

63
00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.480
a show where we catch up on
news and instead of having a guest blabbing

64
00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:02.959
in our face, annoying us with
all about me, me, me,

65
00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:06.800
me me, and not giving me
time to talk about myself, just kidding,

66
00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.920
you know, actually, instead of
you know, talking about sometimes we

67
00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.160
have Leon or just Martin and sometimes
Martin and Lee at the end of the

68
00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:17.759
year we get together. But I
thought it was a good time to just

69
00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:21.759
kind of catch up on some UFO
news and to break down some items because

70
00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:27.399
there's some important stuff going on to
the stars keeps doing stuff, of course,

71
00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.399
and we'll talk more about that in
a little bit. But yes,

72
00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:36.360
today's show is going to be me
and Mark are Mark And I sorry why

73
00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:40.480
I call you Mark, Probably because
you said you might have market Antonio.

74
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.879
You put that in my head that
I did. It's my fault. I'm

75
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:47.720
me. Yeah, No, I'm
not. It's still my brain malfunctioning.

76
00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:53.399
But that's it. It must be. While I'm thinking to Mark because I

77
00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:55.879
think you may or may not have
him. It sounds like you might not

78
00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.319
have him at your next show,
but you're going to have him on soon

79
00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.959
soon. He was with me at
Devil's Tower in Wyoming. So anyways,

80
00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:08.680
Martin and I are going to talk
about some of the news that is fit

81
00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:13.000
to print out there, and there's
lots of interesting stuff going on, So

82
00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:19.920
let's get into the world of UFOs
right now. Yeah, let's go ahead

83
00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:23.600
and let you start it off.
What you got? Yes, Well,

84
00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:26.720
first of all, you just mentioned
to the stars. I have to say

85
00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:30.759
I'm on their mailing list, and
a lot of times, you know,

86
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.920
I don't know, I skip over
them because a lot of times they're selling

87
00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:39.040
like T shirts or something like that, and I just don't even look,

88
00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:44.160
which makes me miss things. I
wish they could have like a separate mailing

89
00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:48.959
list of just like their news,
because I want to talk about they are

90
00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:57.319
talking about the material interest of magnesium
zinc bismuth. I hope I'm saying that

91
00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.160
right. And this is first of
all, I want to ask you of

92
00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:07.240
the Adam research project. I searched
everywhere. I just can't seem to find

93
00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:11.000
what Adam stands for. And I
know it's out there somewhere. Do you

94
00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:16.240
have that the top of your head? Oh? Geez. You know who

95
00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:20.920
reminded me last time? I think
it was Jason McClellan on my live show.

96
00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:26.360
I think he was watching or at
some point for somewhere he reminded me,

97
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:30.439
maybe it was just on YouTube of
what the name was, and I've

98
00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:35.240
already forgotten. So well, I
can't find it anywhere, So yeah,

99
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.279
I don't think they listed anywhere.
I think they've said verbally what it is,

100
00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:43.759
and that's why I'm not sure.
But it's something about material acquisition,

101
00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:54.360
sort of project all durn acquisition materials. Yeah, something acquisition materials. That's

102
00:08:54.399 --> 00:09:00.000
good enough for me, So okay, Well, over the last three months,

103
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:05.440
to the Stars Academy is collected seven
pieces of material from multiple sources to

104
00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:13.480
study for the atom research project.
Each sample represents different elements of potential unidentified

105
00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:20.639
aerial phenomena and how they operate.
So that just that one paragraph alone is

106
00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.639
intriguing and kind of leading all over
the place, like are they actually talking

107
00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:31.679
about part of a UFO and how
would they know it's associated to how it

108
00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:35.320
may operate, which I think is
I think it's leading. I would like

109
00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:41.360
to know more about it. So
according to the accompanying provenance documentation, there

110
00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:48.559
are two classes of samples material that
was released as a UFP as the UAP

111
00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:54.879
was hovering a material that makes up
parts of the structure or systems, so

112
00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:00.000
that could be the systems. I
wish I could see pictures of these,

113
00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:01.600
you know, when they talk about
this, I mean just to see a

114
00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:07.519
picture of what this supposedly is would
be really amazing. Well, the Daily

115
00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:13.519
Star posted a picture of some material, but I don't think it is material

116
00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:18.840
from them. Of course they are
a UK tabloid which often gets the information

117
00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.639
wrong, and of course they were
making a big deal in a positive way,

118
00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:28.279
at least for the group about all
of this. But yeah, seeing

119
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:33.320
the material would be interesting. So
what's great about? What's interesting about this?

120
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.919
And I don't know if you mentioned
this, but what you're referring to

121
00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.679
is on September twenty seventh, just
a few days ago, To the Stars

122
00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:48.840
released a article and of which you
were reading from, and where they're giving

123
00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:56.720
us a little more information about the
materials they are looking into for their atom

124
00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.200
research project, which is to look
at these materials. Uh. They say

125
00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.399
they have seven pieces. What's weird
about what you just read? And I

126
00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:07.960
think this is kind of what you're
alluding to, is that they've said they've

127
00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:16.240
collected seven pieces of material from multiple
sources. Then they go on to say

128
00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:24.320
each sample represents different elements of potential
unidentified aerial phenomena and how they operate.

129
00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:30.320
What the heck does that mean is
a good question. I I don't know

130
00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:35.279
who's writing these but the issue is
they're they're they're kind of all over the

131
00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:39.159
place, these articles that to the
stars, and I think that it's it's

132
00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.279
sort of an issue. And who
was it I was talking to soon I

133
00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:48.039
can't read recently. I was talking
to someone recently and they were asking,

134
00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:54.679
you know, what is kind of
their media strategy? What have they done

135
00:11:54.840 --> 00:12:00.440
that way? And I don't know. That's a good question, is what

136
00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.960
is their media strategy because it's hard
to say, and I don't think they

137
00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:09.200
have one. I think they're kind
of they have a strategy for what they

138
00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:13.919
want to do as a company.
They have a strategy for I think communicating

139
00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:22.360
to high level individuals within government and
even industry, which is great, but

140
00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:28.799
whatever that is is vague because they
don't, I don't think, have a

141
00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.759
media strategy that's very clear, nor
do they have a public relations strategy that's

142
00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:41.600
very clear, because for instance,
this article, there is no clear purpose

143
00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:48.559
for what it is they're trying to
share or even say. And I get

144
00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:52.320
that sense from these articles that they
kind of want to share some information,

145
00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:56.720
but they're not sure what they want
to share, so it's almost like verbal

146
00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:03.879
diarrhea. And it's interesting, But
what can you make of it. I

147
00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:09.360
mean, are they trying to say
that all of these samples are potentially from

148
00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:15.559
UFOs or what? Well, let
me let me just continue a little bit

149
00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:18.679
on in this. And because they're
kind of laying that out, you know,

150
00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:28.200
they're looking for an approach of unique
indicators such as unusual chemical combinations or

151
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:35.679
alloys isotope ratios that indicate material was
created outside of our solar system. That

152
00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.159
would be interesting. I don't know
how exactly. Well, I guess it

153
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:45.559
would just be something they've never seen
before, or unusual structural composition. And

154
00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:50.679
that's that to me. I think
would be something that you would find if

155
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:58.600
say, something was alien from somewhere
else and they were advanced the structural composition,

156
00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.559
you know, just with what we
have done in the last few years

157
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:07.879
with all these unusual I forget what
it's called. It's the strongest fiber and

158
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.360
it's like it's almost like honeycomb.
I can't do you know what I'm talking

159
00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:16.919
about. No, it's very very
thin, but very strong. Okay,

160
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.960
Now we will get hate mail because
I forget what it's called. But anyway,

161
00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:28.159
Yeah, but I'm just thinking an
advanced civilization would have something figured out

162
00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:33.000
that would be very unique. Like
you know, of course the suppose that

163
00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:37.799
Roswell crash. When they saw those
materials, it was unlike anything they'd ever

164
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:43.360
seen before. You know, there
is speculation of what it might or might

165
00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.200
not have been, but still you
know, it's not around now, we

166
00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:52.120
don't know what it is. One
of one of the artifacts on loan,

167
00:14:52.639 --> 00:15:01.840
according to Tess Tessa for analysis,
a magnesium zinc bismuth sample which has been

168
00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:07.240
the source of discussion and speculation for
years. The supplied documentation states that it

169
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:13.360
is from a up crash recovery.
While the source cannot be verified, this

170
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:20.600
is particularly interesting, a particularly interesting
sample for several reasons. Yeah, we'll

171
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:26.240
get into this piece in just a
minute here, but just since you introduced

172
00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:28.919
this, just to get back to
that intro, what I was going over

173
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:33.879
is that you know, and you
read this next sentence, which is according

174
00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:45.120
to the company providence documentation, there
are two classes of samples, and then

175
00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:52.960
they go on to describe one class
apparently, which is material that was released

176
00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:58.080
by a UAP, and then they
give those bullet points, those three bullet

177
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:04.200
points that you just referenced. But
I mean, again, here's the issue.

178
00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.639
It doesn't really it's makes sense.
It's almost like this is like some

179
00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:14.840
notes someone threw together. Really,
there are two classes of samples. What

180
00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:19.600
are the two classes? It's not
clear what two classes they are. There's

181
00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:25.120
not even clear what the first classes. I would guess that the first class

182
00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:33.000
is material released from a UAP.
Is that one class that they're saying.

183
00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:38.279
And then when you get into the
details, and I kind of I'm channeling

184
00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:42.960
Chris Cogswell a little bit, of
course, the PHDM chemistry who I had

185
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:51.759
on fairly recently, which is that
you know, unusual structural composition for example,

186
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:59.039
it's just a bar for proving that
something is anomalous is very very high,

187
00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:04.519
and it's really different. So just
because something is unusual in structure doesn't

188
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:11.039
mean that it wasn't necessarily built here
on the planet. One of the things

189
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:17.799
that they put in here is isotopic
ratios that indicate the material was created outside

190
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:22.599
of our solar system. That adds
another layer. If you have this sort

191
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:29.440
of material then and also a structure
that we can't define, you know,

192
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:37.599
then that would be interesting or potentially
something strange. But so they say they

193
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:44.559
have seven samples. There's two classes
of samples. They kind of define sort

194
00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:51.160
of what they're looking for in a
way, and then they get into talking

195
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:59.480
about this one sample in particular that
they have in detail. Now here's the

196
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.720
thing about this sample, and I'll
let you explain more about it. They

197
00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:12.359
say. Here. Well, let's
see they described the sample, and they

198
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:21.519
say, which has been the source
of discussion and speculation for years. Hm,

199
00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:23.880
So what have you ever heard of
that before? Oh? Yeah,

200
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:26.240
I know exactly what this is,
right at least, I'm pretty sure I

201
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:33.039
know what this is. Arts parts. Did you remember arts parts? Yeah?

202
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.200
Yes, yes, so years ago
and I can't remember what year it

203
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:42.640
was, but it's got to be
like over ten years ago. Quite a

204
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:49.079
while ago, someone anonymously sent Art
Bell, who was the host of the

205
00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:57.240
famous you know paranormal radio show Coast
to Coast AM some samples of material that

206
00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:02.680
they said they recovered near New Mexico
and that they think was part of the

207
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.440
Roswell crash. They looked at it
at first they thought it was weird.

208
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.839
It looked like it was aluminum,
and then it didn't seem like it was

209
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:17.839
weird, but somehow some of it
was weird. And this is how it

210
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:25.079
was described. I know Linda how
had also attempted to get some analysis done

211
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:33.680
with it, but they Linda Howe
described it as containing layers of businesmuth and

212
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:41.960
magnesium zinc alley and that they couldn't
determine why it had those layers. So

213
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:48.799
that seems like exactly what they're describing
here, a magnesium, zinc and bismuth

214
00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:53.799
layers layered. So I'll let you
go ahead and read the bullet points here

215
00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:59.359
of what they say the materials like. Sure. Well, first of all,

216
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:03.960
they say the material is clearly engineered
with a distinct layer with distinct layers

217
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:12.119
of magnesium, zinc and bismuth at
structured thickness only microns thick. Also that

218
00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:18.000
there is no precedent for this structured
combination of materials. It is unclear what

219
00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:27.319
fabrication processes allow this combination of materials
to form an integrated structural component. Theoretical

220
00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:37.680
analysis shows that the material acts as
waveguide for terra huts terror heerts. Oh

221
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.799
yeah, terror hertz frequencies. Yes, sorry, I've misread that those wavelengths

222
00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:48.440
normally would not propagate through this geometry. One side of the sample appears to

223
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:55.480
be tooled, having a defined contour
sounds really interesting. There has been an

224
00:20:55.640 --> 00:21:00.519
extensive amount of testing in the material. The two purpose or function of the

225
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:07.960
material remains unknown, and then it
ends with the TSA team has already started

226
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:17.319
testing several material samples and will be
reporting results as we complete the analysis.

227
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:22.240
So I hope they actually do.
I hope they do follow up. And

228
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:27.880
actually, I mean, let's just
say Devil's Advocate they come up with something

229
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:34.480
really unusual. Are we going to
be the first to know or or is

230
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.319
there a government source that will know
ahead of us? Yeah, I don't

231
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:42.240
know who knows how this all worked. Those are some good questions, and

232
00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:45.119
I want to get into that because
I think that you bring up some really

233
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:53.680
interesting points. So Linda Howe actually
did do more information about this in one

234
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:59.160
of her books because this material it
was a mid nineties when it was sent

235
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:04.079
to coast to coast and according to
her, they tried to I don't know

236
00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.759
who, but some people, I
think it's in her book High Strangeness tried

237
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:17.319
to recreate this material and they couldn't. So I don't know. I don't

238
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:21.000
know if she's had any interaction with
Robert Bigelow and their group in the past.

239
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:26.559
Of course, many of the members
of To the Stars Academy are from

240
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:32.759
also worked with Bige Low. But
and if you're not familiar anybody who's new

241
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.440
to all of this, you know, To the Stars Academy is a group

242
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:40.119
started by Tom DeLong of very credible
people, a lot of people who have

243
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:45.759
worked in defense or for defense contractors, and they started this UFO research organization

244
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:53.000
essentially with the man who used to
run the Pentagon's UFO research organization. So

245
00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:59.480
and everybody's trying to figure out what
they're up to, and they have,

246
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:08.279
you know, recently released this kind
of weird article about how they've apparently got

247
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.079
you know, that's what's weird if
you if you take this as a whole.

248
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:17.400
They've got these seven samples. One
of them is apparently arts parts,

249
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:22.279
which has been discussed and examined for, like they say, decades, and

250
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:26.759
they go into some detail about it, and one end, it's pretty exciting

251
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:32.240
that they're looking into it and then
hopefully it'll be taken more seriously and we

252
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:36.119
can figure out more about it.
On the other hand, it is kind

253
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:38.680
of interesting that of all the things
that they bring up, they bring up

254
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:45.359
a historic case that is already out
there in the UFO cannon. And I

255
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.440
guess one of the thoughts that it
makes me think of is just that,

256
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.039
you know, a lot of the
criticism they've received as they haven't been focused

257
00:23:53.079 --> 00:24:00.359
on the UFO community yet, it
appears this first kind of Adam project piece

258
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:04.440
that they're willing to talk about comes
from the UFO community the heart of it.

259
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.000
So interesting stuff, but we'll get
to know. We only have a

260
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.640
little bit of time left. But
quickly, do you know where for the

261
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:15.960
first break that is? Can you
tell me where they found the material to

262
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.559
start? Well, that's the thing. It was anonymously sent to them.

263
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:23.920
Oh that's it. They never found
out the source allegedly coming from the Roswell

264
00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.640
crash crash, Well, of course
it did, I know. So that's

265
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:34.839
you know, that's a big red
flag right there. Uh. And it's

266
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.960
just kind of interesting. So uh, we'll get back into more of this

267
00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.279
in just a second. We've got
to take a quick break and then we'll

268
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:47.519
be back with more. You're listening
to Open Mind UFO Radio. For those

269
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.480
of you listening to KGr A,
you'll hear a short commercial commercial break.

270
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:55.599
The rest of you will hear a
short musical interlude we'll be right back.

271
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:19.359
Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host Alejandro Rojasan and

272
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:26.079
it is I Martin Willis UH,
the UFO news guy, talking about some

273
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.200
recent UFO news and Martin got right
into that kind of the media stuff that

274
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:36.400
I wanted to talk about, which
was this latest revelation that came from the

275
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:41.119
To the Stars Academy. And they're
regarding their ADAM project, which is to

276
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:48.960
collect and analyze anomalist material, and
that immediately they the very first thing that

277
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:56.480
they discuss is UH material. And
one of my other issues with this article

278
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:03.079
is that the UH they also don't
as you and I just discussed this,

279
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.720
it's got to be arts parts.
You know, the description that Linda Howe

280
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.839
gives about who helped Art build,
you know, look into this stuff.

281
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:17.119
It's exactly what the description is that
these guys are giving us. They even

282
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:22.759
say that this sample, which has
been the source of discussion and speculation for

283
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:27.240
years, kind of alluding to you
that's what this is. But why didn't

284
00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:30.839
they give that history? See?
And that that's what's frustrating, I guess,

285
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:36.039
especially for someone like me who's in
journalism. If you're gonna write a

286
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:40.519
press release. This is here's a
tip for people out there. If you're

287
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:42.680
going to write a press release,
what you do is you write the story.

288
00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:48.880
That's the best pressure release by far. I don't care who you talk

289
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.200
to, trust me, I get
I do these quite a bit, and

290
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.039
they're the most effective. You write
this story for them because often, especially

291
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.799
the smaller papers, they'll print your
story just the way it is, and

292
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.079
then you're getting all the information you
want in there, or at the very

293
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.599
least they'll they'll mix it up a
little bit. But if you give them

294
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.359
a few quotes and stuff, but
it's got to have a beginning and an

295
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:19.119
ending and an and uh and it's
got to have a point and and that's

296
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:23.599
this is just kind of like this
small bit of information without a point.

297
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:29.200
And then it doesn't clearly, you
know, give you the history, which

298
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:33.519
it should behind the material, because
if this is some sort of material they're

299
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.400
saying that's been out there, you
know, they should I feel they should

300
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.440
have given that information because and they
should have explained, you know, gotten

301
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:52.640
into this whole part that the provenance
being non existent with this material really means

302
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:57.039
you can only take it so far. So I mean, it completely could

303
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:02.200
have been somebody in some lad somewhere
who uh sent it to them as a

304
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:06.240
joke, and especially because they're saying
from it it's from Roswell, that would

305
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:12.599
most likely be the case. So
it's just really this, this article really

306
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:18.000
puzzles me. They give us a
little bit of information that is kind of

307
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:26.240
haphazard and unorganized and and there's no
real uh idea of what their intent is.

308
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:29.960
I kind of feel that, you
know, they released this video where

309
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:33.039
they were kind of vague and got
some negative feedback, so they decided to

310
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:38.839
try to throw people a bone.
But I'm not so sure if they did

311
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:44.319
it in a way that that it's
going to help them or hinder them.

312
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:51.000
But it all comes back to and
I've written them about this, and you

313
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:55.960
know, talk to Lou and it's
not Lou's place. This isn't his Lou

314
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.359
el Lozando who ran a tip it's
not his area, yeah, or of

315
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:07.440
responsibility. But that I think they
need a stronger pr and media kind of

316
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:14.039
plan on what they want to communicate
and how, And I think they need

317
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:19.799
to be a little more thorough in
their communication because really, if you release

318
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.960
information like this, here's the problem
and it's kind of similar to what doctor

319
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:30.200
Greer did and who was definitely I
think hiding information when he first came out

320
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:37.079
with this creature from the Atacom a
baby exactly the at economy. He left

321
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.880
out the entire history of this thing. Yeah, I want to add something

322
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:47.160
to that because basically it kind of
skirts. You know, what I do

323
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:52.359
for the real world for a living
is sometimes I authenticate artwork or a help

324
00:29:52.920 --> 00:30:00.319
involved in authenticating fine art. And
I'm working on a really extraordinary piece right

325
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:03.759
now. And guess what the number
one thing is provenance? Where did this

326
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:07.559
come from? What was its history? It's the most important. You know,

327
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:12.640
you look at all the paintings that
you know, Picasso's or Money's or

328
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:18.079
whatever it is that bring record prices, and it'll have two pages of prominence.

329
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.319
You know where it was displayed and
everything, and that's very, very

330
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:26.559
important. So when it comes to
something like this, it does make a

331
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:32.319
difference because, like you said,
someone could have made this in a lab,

332
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:36.720
although you know, maybe maybe not. Maybe it's really difficult to make

333
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.559
and it would certainly take a lot
of time if it was that unusual,

334
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:45.359
But still the most important part,
exactly, and you know, the point

335
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:52.880
you make because there is expert opinion
such as yours are expert insight that can

336
00:30:52.960 --> 00:31:00.400
be lent to applied to this investigation. So, for instance, I think

337
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:07.279
that that route of conversation is exactly
what should have happened here, is that

338
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.119
it should have very clearly then stated, you know, we think that this

339
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:17.480
is something unusual. However, here's
the provenance, here's what we know about

340
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:22.599
its background, and because of that, we're limited in what we're going to

341
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.279
be able to do with this material. And here's why. And I think

342
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.279
you should explain, just like what
you did, here are some of the

343
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:37.039
reasons that provenance is so important in
some of the problems that can be caused

344
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:42.319
by not having that provenance. And
of course I'm sure I would imagine and

345
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:48.200
you would know better that if it
doesn't have a provenance, often that is

346
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:55.559
more indicative of a hoax. Yeah, or could it could be well,

347
00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:00.279
when it comes to artwork, there
could be an issue with ownership. So

348
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:05.039
that's you know, and the old
saying is all great art is stolen,

349
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.759
and there are you know, I
mean, even the Mona Lisa was stolen

350
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:13.480
you know, at one time,
So you know that it's very important,

351
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:20.400
but it all does come down to
authenticity when it seems to its origin.

352
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:24.480
You're making another great point here too, is ownership, because that obviously becomes

353
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.519
an issue, and it becomes an
issue in studying anomalous materials too because of

354
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:36.160
where they come from and what the
ownership is. So I mean, someone

355
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.200
could come out of the woodwork and
say, hey, you know this guy

356
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:42.079
used to work for me. He
took this from my work and then boom,

357
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.119
you know, you've got to give
the material back. Or it could

358
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:49.599
be someone saying, hey, he
took that off of my property. You

359
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.880
need to give that back. In
fact, this would be an issue.

360
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:57.599
If this person claims it comes from
the Roswell crash, that means it was

361
00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:02.039
either from BLM Land And of course
we talked with Frank Kimbler, both of

362
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:07.880
us recently and the issues he's had
from taking material from BLM Land or it

363
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:14.039
was private property. Either case,
there are steps that need to be taken

364
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:21.039
to secure ownership of this material.
Otherwise all of this money being spent on

365
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:24.799
this examination could be for nothing.
So I mean, just there are so

366
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.799
many issues with that material, and
there's so much known about that material.

367
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:34.759
I mean, as a journalist.
Let's say they had to say, Hey,

368
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.240
Alejandra, we want to tell people
about this arts parts that we're looking

369
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:40.720
into. Could you help us write
a story. What they wrote was,

370
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:46.400
you know, only the introduction.
They really need to have a whole conversation

371
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:51.400
about what you and I just talked
about the background of this thing and the

372
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:55.359
issues that its background brings up.
Because those are known factors, they're public

373
00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:00.920
factors. There's no reason to hide
that information. All that you do,

374
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:05.440
which I was getting into earlier,
is become a doctor Greer, where it

375
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:10.760
appears that you're hiding the background because
it hurts the credibility of the issue.

376
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:20.679
In the case of doctor Stephen Greer, that carcass had already been analyzed and

377
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:25.079
had already determined to be human,
and of course that was important information you

378
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:30.599
should share with people, I guess
when he claims it to be alien.

379
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:35.760
And then of course Gary Nolan,
who's now working with To of the Stars,

380
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.000
who's an expert with DNA, did
an analysis and found out yep,

381
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:45.679
it's human, which is what the
prior analysis had found out. And but

382
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:52.360
doctor Greer and others are still disputing
that, but for whatever reason. But

383
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:58.960
I mean it's just I think this
article is I don't think that, and

384
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.760
I do want to say and I'd
love to hear what your thoughts are.

385
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.000
Well, let me just ask this
right off the bat. I mean,

386
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:13.920
what impressions did it give you any
like emotional response either way when you read

387
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.000
this article or saw that they had
written this, or with what they're up

388
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:22.639
to. I mean, what does
it make you think and feel? The

389
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:30.280
first thing I feel is it's spotty. And what I mean by that is

390
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:40.519
it's skirting around anything that that's real
meat to a story. I don't want

391
00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:44.400
to say it's it. I'm not
going to say that it's not credible,

392
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:51.280
but I'm going to say that it
doesn't seem to lead anywhere. It doesn't

393
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:57.239
pull you in. And and because
all right, if they had a simple

394
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.000
thing I know this sounds silly maybe, but even if they had like pictures

395
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:05.239
of it or something like that,
it's kind of like we're all just reading

396
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:12.360
and taking what they're giving us and
it's not enough. Yeah, I here's

397
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:16.280
my concern. And I see and
I think that your feeling is what a

398
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:21.519
lot of people feel. I mean, it's just confusing and it's like,

399
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:23.079
you know what is it. What
are you guys trying to What are you

400
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:30.440
trying to do here? What are
you trying to say? And the concern

401
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:35.320
I have is that you know,
I'm taking it and of course I am

402
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:38.239
being a little bit hypercritical of the
group because I really feel there can't be

403
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:44.639
a SETI of UFOs the search for
extraterrestrial intelligence. You know, the movie

404
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:47.360
Contact came out. At the time
set he was still a bit fringe because

405
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:52.480
they're looking for ET. But the
movie came out. There are a lot

406
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:59.400
of scientists involved with that organization.
It brought legitimate legitimacy to the organization and

407
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:04.519
now there are really big deal like
anything they do makes news. They work

408
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.760
closely with NASA and others in astrobiology
and looking for life out there, and

409
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:14.039
I think UFOs can have that too, And so I just I get sensitive

410
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:17.039
because I really want to see these
guys be the next SETI of you know,

411
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:22.800
the SETI of UFOs, and I
think that you can. In order

412
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:24.880
to do that, you got to
kind of communicate in the way that they

413
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:29.440
do, and you have to be
very careful in the way that you communicate

414
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:34.360
and professional and at least for someone
in journalism, you know who looks at

415
00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:37.519
press releases and stuff, this would
be, this would go nowhere if you

416
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:42.639
sent this to you know, That's
why the only person who wrote about it

417
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:46.880
was the Daily Star, you know, a UK tabloid, Whereas you know,

418
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:52.000
a more concise explanation of why this
is important, what this really means,

419
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.639
goes a lot further, not just
for the media, but for the

420
00:37:55.679 --> 00:38:01.079
general public as well. And so
I just and I would love, I

421
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:05.400
just want them to do them as
good as they can. But it also

422
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:08.000
lends father because I feel there are
a lot of people who want to see

423
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:14.599
them go down, that just want
to see this whole thing go away.

424
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.239
And I think it's just why is
a great question, And my guests would

425
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.079
be and I'd love to hear what
you think, but my guess would be,

426
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:27.360
I think that it just disturbed their
paradigm. You know a lot of

427
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:30.760
people have been working in UFOs and
doing stuff in this field and trying to

428
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.480
connect dots and build what they think
is going on, and when you have

429
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:38.760
something like this happen, it MUCKs
things up. They're getting more attention.

430
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.360
You know, Hey, I like
the way things work to get out of

431
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:46.760
here. So I think that people
are just you know, a lot of

432
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:52.880
they don't want people messing in in
their world, so they unfortunately want to

433
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:57.599
see this all destroyed. I mean, do you get that sense I have

434
00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.599
because of the emails that I've read
from people you know, writing me,

435
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:05.519
you know, asking me questions about
them and you know, and making some

436
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:10.599
statements, and I think it's too
bad. You know that it's it's like,

437
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:15.079
well, here it is. You
know what I'm thinking. And I

438
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:20.679
may be off on this, but
what I'm thinking that some people that are

439
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.440
upset about them and want to see
them go down have been added a long

440
00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:27.320
time. And you know, how
can this new kid on the block all

441
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:30.800
of a sudden have all this power
and connections and and you know, making

442
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:35.280
some progress. Now wait a minute, you know, Noah, that's my

443
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:38.559
territory. What's he doing here?
I think it's something along those lines.

444
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:44.159
I don't really understand it. I
say, you know, anybody that's putting

445
00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:49.159
serious work into this to try to
figure out, kudos to them. Yeah,

446
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.719
exactly. And and this group is
more exciting because they're you know,

447
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:59.440
more mainstream, they're they're uh,
I mean, these people are tied in

448
00:39:59.719 --> 00:40:07.280
with the whole real science industry out
there, and that makes it really important

449
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.360
because people are really going to pay
attention to what they're up to. And

450
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:17.960
you know, that's why I think
that, you know, articles like this,

451
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:25.800
I think it's important that they they
have full disclosure, you know,

452
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:30.800
especially if they're saying, this is
something that's been out there and debated for

453
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:34.119
decades. Well, what has been
debated about it, what's out there about

454
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:38.239
it, who's looked at it?
You know, you need to understand the

455
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:43.519
history of this thing to get that
out because of course, luckily we had

456
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:46.119
Antonio june Is working for us when
that whole career thing happened, and he

457
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:53.039
is very keyed in with Latin America
and the research in UFOs, and so

458
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:59.639
he knew the entire history of that
little out of Common critter and so we

459
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:04.559
had written a bunch of stories on
that, so people got the backstory on

460
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:07.960
that, so, you know,
and it kind of goes along the same

461
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:14.280
lines as the so called roswell slides. Yeah, you know, it just

462
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:20.480
wasn't followed through. Well, that
was kind of a lot of a little

463
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.719
different in another way, but I
think there was some definitely, there was

464
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:28.920
definitely some shenanigans going on there.
Yep, there are some shernan agains.

465
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.920
So we'll see what happens with this. And the one hand, it's really

466
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:37.480
exciting that they're doing this. It's
really exciting that they're looking at these materials.

467
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:42.559
Just on the other hand, the
way they're at least going about kind

468
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:49.320
of stumbling and haphazardly sharing information with
public is just a little weird and clumsy,

469
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:54.840
and I think that they really need
to to kind of tidy that area

470
00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:00.760
up. But yeah, interesting stuff. Huh Yeah, I like your I

471
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:07.360
like your analogy of we need like
a SETI type of situation, you know,

472
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.679
because they're the people are there,
they're staffed, you know, they

473
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:15.760
have some great people on board with
them that you know, are serious.

474
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:22.239
Yeah, speaking of SETI, Steike
mentioned that really crazy dream I had that

475
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.599
I told you about. Oh yeah, let's get into that one. One

476
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:30.400
last thing though, is that there's
another piece of news that they released on

477
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:36.400
the twenty seventh, which was just
a video essentially of Tom DeLong and Lou

478
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:42.760
Alesondo talking about Tom Delong's latest book. So, his latest fiction book,

479
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:46.440
Secret Machines. I think it's the
second one. Uh, it's called Secret

480
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:52.960
Machines of Fire. Within that is
based on his UFO research just came out.

481
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:59.719
So there's a video of him and
Lou talking about that for a while

482
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:04.360
that you can find on to the
Stars. But you probably got that email

483
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:08.480
and I just ignored it, So
damn's too bad. Yeah, so,

484
00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:14.400
yes, you got a weird you
had a weird dream. Oh yeah,

485
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.239
this is kind of embarrassing. But
I'll just you know, I'm just gonna

486
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:21.320
say what happened, because you know, one can really help their dreams.

487
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.199
So but I think it's funny.
I think the listener may get a little

488
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:28.480
bit of a boot out of it. So the other night I was I

489
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:31.039
was working down in Boston, and
I was staying in a hotel room and

490
00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:36.599
so it was a little bit noisy, and I decided to put my earbuds

491
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:39.320
in and listen to a podcast.
And occasionally I like to listen to it's

492
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:45.960
actually very good Seth Shostak and Jill
Tarter do or she's on it a lot,

493
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:50.800
not all the time, but they
do a show called a podcast,

494
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:55.159
a great podcast called Big Picture Science
and so, and it's really you know,

495
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:58.360
it's on global warming, you name
it, it's on everything, not

496
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:04.639
just astronomy and life, possible life
out there. So I was listening to

497
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:09.079
Big Picture of Science and cheth Seth
Shostak, who I think he's. You

498
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:12.760
know, he's a really good orator, so you know, he's good at

499
00:44:12.760 --> 00:44:15.119
what he does. And so I'm
listening to it and I fall asleep.

500
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:20.519
So this is kind of embarrassing,
but I'm going to just say it.

501
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:23.719
So I wait. In my In
my dream, I'm in this hotel room

502
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:28.400
with a bunch of people that I
don't really know. We're like sitting around

503
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:30.159
the lobby, and it's in the
middle of the desert, middle of nowhere,

504
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:35.320
and I see a couple of posters
and I go up and I read

505
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:42.400
one and it says SETI just two
miles from here. So in my dream,

506
00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:45.559
I go out and walk and now
don't that part I don't really remember

507
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:47.679
much. So I get to this
building, big brick building, and it's

508
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:52.480
like a dome, almost like a
observatory, but it's all brick, and

509
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:57.840
I go inside. By the way, you can tell, probably this was

510
00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:01.719
a very vivid dream. So I
go inside and there's all these like planets

511
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:07.199
hanging from the ceiling and telescopes everywhere, and antique brass telescopes. I guess

512
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:12.719
it's because I like antiques. I
don't know so, and this is one

513
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:15.440
of these dreams where you know,
you can even smell like I could smell

514
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:21.880
like it smelled museum musty, you
know. And so I look over and

515
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:25.480
there's Seth Shostack and he has a
pair of gray headphones on it. Just

516
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:30.360
remember every detail over in the corner. So I start walking over to him,

517
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:32.239
and all of a sudden, I
see Jill Tarter and I said,

518
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:36.119
Hi, Jill. So she's talking
to me. She opens her mouth and

519
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:42.000
she had this weird long tooth that
was all like hollowed out and stained and

520
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.920
really really scary. And so I
kept talking to him, looking away.

521
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:49.920
I have no idea where that came
from. And then I walk over to

522
00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:52.199
Seth and I say, hey,
Seth, how you doing? And he

523
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.519
looks at me and goes, can't
you see him doing my show? And

524
00:45:55.559 --> 00:46:00.239
he's got this little miniature microphone you
can just barely see it. He's like

525
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:01.960
talking into him, and I like, hope, So I'm embarrassed and all

526
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:08.280
that. So I walk over to
around this partition and I look over at

527
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:12.360
him. He's, well, he's
not going to like me for this.

528
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:17.639
He's smoking a joint and it's this
real tight joint and he's smoking this joint

529
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.440
and he's blowing the smoke. There's
this little tube with a little horn coming

530
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:25.519
down from the hanging down from the
ceiling and he's blowing the smoke up the

531
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:30.840
tube and then he continues to do
his story and I look over and there's

532
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:37.400
this young kid in a baseball cap
and I look and he's like really anxious

533
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.800
to talk to him, wait for
a show to get done. So but

534
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:45.280
when he got done his show,
I kind of said first ahead of the

535
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:47.519
kid, you know, hey,
Seth, how are you. It's Martin

536
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:52.639
Willison. I remember you and I
did a show on UFOs. Do you

537
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:55.079
remember that? And Seth's like looking
over me, and the kid says,

538
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:59.920
UFOs, they're a bunch of crap, Get out of here. And I

539
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:05.119
walked out totally humiliated. And that
was my dream. I know, that's

540
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:07.639
really bizarre. We're going to lose
listeners after that one, I hope not

541
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:12.800
maybe, but if you're if you're
still here, stay tuned because we're going

542
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:15.599
to talk more of UFOs. But
I thought it was a cute dream,

543
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:22.159
but it's very easy to interpret because
well, you just I think, are

544
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:28.800
the type of person to often be
like when you walk into a room,

545
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:35.360
I get the sense that you're waiting
to be yelled at. Uh wow.

546
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:37.679
Most of the time you walk into
the room, you're kind of like,

547
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.559
oh, am, I supposed to
be here, and it's you walk in

548
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:44.800
with a presumption that I'm going to
get in trouble. Well, you know,

549
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:49.559
I think it might be my upbringing
because I had I had manners beaten

550
00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:52.159
into me, you know, and
yeah, well that's a good thing.

551
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.880
Yeah, so, but it might
be I didn't realize that I'm gonna have

552
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.599
to go to therapy again. No, it's not a bad thing. At

553
00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:02.480
least you not entitled where you think, oh, everybody wants to hear from

554
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:06.719
me. You know, I'm the
most important person in the world. So

555
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:09.800
it's not a bad problem to have. It's one of the things that makes

556
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:15.280
you endearing. Okay, well now
I'm just self conscious, is what I

557
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:22.400
am. Anyway, I try to
figure out the dream. I can't figure

558
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:24.760
you never cares cu but only that
I went to sleep with the earbuds,

559
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:28.360
in which I know, I think
it's just you. Like the guys,

560
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:32.320
you're a bit intimidated by how intelligent
they are and everything, and you'd like

561
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:37.079
to meet them one day, but
you'd be nervous that they would not be

562
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:42.000
as happy to see you as you
would. You see that probably now with

563
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:47.079
Seth I did my very first UFO
debate, and yeah, that just barely

564
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:52.599
happened because the internet went down.
I ran to a hotel room and I

565
00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:54.920
couldn't use it there either after I
paid for the room, so I put

566
00:48:54.960 --> 00:49:00.679
my phone in the window and did
the connection to the phone and did the

567
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:04.639
show with him. And he was
really good at debating UFOs. I'll tell

568
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:07.719
you that. Well, tell us
a little more about it after this next

569
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.239
break. We're going to go to
break and then we'll talk more about says

570
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:15.280
shot Stack, but we also will
talk about another couple of cool things that

571
00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:17.639
have gone on that I think people
should take notice of that might not have

572
00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:22.960
been able to. So we'll be
right back after this short break. If

573
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:27.239
you're listening to KGr or here commercials. If you're listening to the podcast,

574
00:49:27.280 --> 00:50:09.480
you'll hear a short, beautiful musical
interlude. We'll be right back. Welcome

575
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:14.840
back to Open Mind UFO Radio.
This is your host, Alejandro Rojas and

576
00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:19.639
I'm here with Martin Willis. Now
you just met and mentioned Seth Shostak,

577
00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:22.440
And I know that's a name that
a lot of UFO people like to hate,

578
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:28.639
but I'm also a big fan of
his because he's very witty. It

579
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:32.079
is frustrating because I've talked to him
too, and he gets very dismissive and

580
00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:37.559
he hasn't done his research at all
on UFOs but still gets on his high

581
00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:42.880
horse, which is a bit frustrating. But when you had him debate who

582
00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:46.320
did you have him debate? Myself? Oh? You debated him? I

583
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:50.679
debated him? Yeah, I think
it was like also it was like I

584
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.679
have like three hundred and twenty some
other episodes and I think it was episode

585
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:59.079
twenty or something. It was really
Oh, I was daring. I had

586
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:01.960
him toward the beginning. But how
do you think you did. I actually

587
00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:07.920
think I did fairly well. Of
course, you know, he is really

588
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:14.440
sharp, and he really threw me
because you know, he really like I

589
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:19.239
said, you know, so you
don't believe there's any way that extraterrestrials are

590
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:22.559
visiting in the Earth, And he
said, well, it's possible. Like

591
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:24.760
hell, I didn't expect him to
say that, well, so, you

592
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:28.920
know, like I was, he
kind of shocked me a few times,

593
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:32.519
and we should say who he is. He is actually the scientist for the

594
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:38.440
Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute, So
very credible person. You probably have seen

595
00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:45.000
him on TV several times, very
witty. And what's interesting is to your

596
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.719
point is that you know, he
loves to be dismissive about UFOs and debate,

597
00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:54.320
but when he does a lecture,
it's all about how extraterrestrials are out

598
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:58.639
there, how et civilizations have to
be out there, and it's a great

599
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:05.440
talk. It's very witty, it's
scientific. So that's what's so interesting to

600
00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:10.519
me, and it almost alludes to
kind of a kind of an internal issue

601
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:16.639
that some of these people have because
they're convincing you there are civilizations out there,

602
00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:22.039
but they couldn't have come here,
and their reason because they couldn't have

603
00:52:22.119 --> 00:52:30.400
invented a technology to come here.
That's kind of very not very forward thinking.

604
00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:37.960
Yep, And that came up quite
a bit. I remember saying something

605
00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:42.280
like, well, you know,
anything is possible or something like that,

606
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:45.559
and he was kind of he was
a little bit you know, intimidating.

607
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:49.599
After I said that, and I
did ask him, I said, Hey,

608
00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:53.000
what would happen to What would happen
if, all of a sudden we

609
00:52:53.880 --> 00:53:01.639
found out that UFOs were actually an
alien intelligence proof? What would what would

610
00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:06.360
happen to your job? To your
job security? And he kind of laughed,

611
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:08.880
And of course he's heard that one
many times. I guess he had

612
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:12.519
a really good answer. I wish
I could remember exactly what it was,

613
00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:16.360
but it was dismissive. But the
one thing that I will take from all

614
00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:20.679
that time ago was long time ago
when I when I did that debate,

615
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:23.800
was I said, what type of
evidence? I told him there's radar evidence,

616
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:28.920
there's astronauts. He said, by
the way, astronauts or pilots or

617
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:35.519
any of those are no better of
an observer than anyone else. But he

618
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:38.360
he said that it would take an
entire wing of the Smithsonian full of material

619
00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:43.679
before he'd believe it would be true. Wow, that's the type of evidence.

620
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:49.880
It's very strange. It's really odd
that he's like that, because I

621
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:52.960
mean, if you look at it, I think, just taking a stand,

622
00:53:53.719 --> 00:53:57.920
taking a step back, and you
look at Okay, you've convinced me

623
00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:04.760
there are uh, extraterrestrial civilizations out
there that are more advanced than we are,

624
00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:08.480
perhaps by thousands, if not hundreds
of thousands of years. Okay,

625
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:13.559
Seth, you've convinced me of that. The next step, which is to

626
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:22.360
come up with the you know,
is to speculate that they may have come

627
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:28.000
up with a technology that would allow
them, which is essentially just they may

628
00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:31.599
have come up with an understanding of
nature in the universe and how it works

629
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:38.840
that would allow them to do what
many theoretical physicists think is possible by bending

630
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:45.719
space time and getting here is not
a stretch whatsoever, that's right. And

631
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:50.559
you know, I remember saying to
him, what if they've figured out something

632
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:55.000
in physics that we haven't yet,
you know, and he actually, I

633
00:54:55.039 --> 00:55:00.559
think he was agreeable to that that
was a possibility. But you know,

634
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:02.559
the number one thing I do remember
also, and this was, by the

635
00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:07.159
way, it was episode twenty two, so it's going way back. Wow,

636
00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:15.039
let's see, I can't that was
twenty twelve, September twenty twelve when

637
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:21.480
I did that debate with him.
But you know that the number one thing

638
00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:25.719
is, and I do understand that
we can't even conceive of the amount of

639
00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:30.599
space between us and the first star. I mean it's just you know,

640
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:31.639
the four or four light years away. I mean, if you put the

641
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:36.960
numbers on it, you can't even
visualize something like that. So I do

642
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:40.400
understand there's great distance to travel.
Yeah, but you know, I said,

643
00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:45.320
what if they can some intelligence can
figure out, you know, how

644
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:52.239
to do that. I understand what
he's saying completely, and I totally Yeah.

645
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:59.119
The distances are just incredible, even
this whole idea of getting us back

646
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:04.599
to the Moon, because NASA was
focused during the Obama administration on getting to

647
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:14.119
Mars. They had the Orion project
boeing along with under United Space I forget

648
00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:19.840
Ual Aerospace Alliance. Essentially, you
know, they're building this SLS, this

649
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:27.079
giant rocket, and now they've refocused
to go back to the Moon. But

650
00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:30.920
even getting to the Moon, let
alone Mars, is a very big deal

651
00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:37.119
for us. Because the distances are
so huge. People might not realize that

652
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:40.960
we have not gotten out of lower
orbit in a very very long time.

653
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.719
We've just been going to the International
Space Station, which is very very close.

654
00:56:46.280 --> 00:56:51.000
In fact, you know, the
Earth has a magnetic field around it

655
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:55.679
that protects us from the radiation of
space and the Sun and everything that the

656
00:56:55.719 --> 00:57:00.800
space station, and everywhere we go
is inside of this bubble. But if

657
00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:05.159
you go outside of this bubble,
you're gonna get pelted by radiation. So

658
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:10.960
that's a concern. It actually happened
to the Apollo astronauts where they just they

659
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:16.480
were they received this this radiation.
Luckily, it seems like I don't think

660
00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:22.639
it gave any of them cancer.
But I mean there's just and the distances

661
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:27.199
in the time, it's very,
very difficult, and it's a big deal

662
00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:30.800
for us. So sure, you
know, we are not close to there,

663
00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:37.920
we are not able to traverse those
vast distances, but it doesn't mean

664
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:42.000
it's not possible by someone. And
you know, especially when it comes to

665
00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:45.880
space science, this is one that
gets me too. We discover things in

666
00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:52.960
space on a regular basis that we
never could have imagined were possible. One

667
00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:57.400
of my favorites is rogue planets.
Everybody thought, you know, planets had

668
00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:00.679
to be in a solar system circling
a star, and then we found these,

669
00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:04.960
you know, random planets that are
just floating out there in the middle

670
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:08.840
of nowhere in space. They never
thought that was possible. This whole concept

671
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:12.480
of dark matter that we don't even
know what the hell it is. It's

672
00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:16.119
just an explanation because we don't know
why the universe is expanding when we thought,

673
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:22.119
given our math, it would be
contracting. So, especially with space

674
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:24.639
science, we find out weird stuff
all the time. So why I just

675
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:29.840
not only that, I think what's
interesting bringing this back to the skin Walker

676
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:35.960
ranch is a concept that many others
have had as well. In fact,

677
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:43.360
I've had this and I think you've
had him. This professor and scientists in

678
00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:49.559
Nebraska who's trying to build kind of
a time warp essentially, and he feels

679
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:53.880
that this time warp can be naturally
occurring, and some of the sciences kind

680
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:59.440
of feel like that might be going
on, like an in Skinwalker that possibly

681
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:04.079
you know, there's there's kind of
the veil is thin between dimensions or something

682
00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:09.800
in certain places, and that's what
explains kind of this paranormal phenomena that we

683
00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:15.480
interact with at times. But I
mean that may be possible, I mean,

684
00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:22.679
and it works. There are theoretical
physicists who believe the math works where

685
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:27.679
you know, there could be types
of interactions where other dimensions are affecting our

686
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:34.239
dimension and vice versa. So and
this is science. So yeah, it's

687
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:38.079
it's very weird that they I've always
felt it's kind of I think that the

688
00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:45.599
reason SETI is so hyper sensitive about
UFOs more so and the possibility of aliens

689
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:52.719
visiting, is that they had to
fight for credibility for so long, sure,

690
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:58.039
and they had to keep steer clear
of what everybody was accusing them of

691
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:01.639
and making fun of them. That
they've just gone so far away that they

692
01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:07.639
can't go back. They can't reconcile, you know, with these ideas,

693
01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:12.559
at least not now, whereas they've
got such a large amount of credibility at

694
01:00:12.559 --> 01:00:15.280
this point. I don't think it
would really hurt them if they entertained these

695
01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:22.519
ideas. And I think even this
Pentagon revelation that the Pentagon had this UFO

696
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:27.280
research group, and the reaction,
which has been very positive by the mainstream

697
01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:31.480
for the most part, not completely
shows that, you know, I think

698
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:35.880
the public's ready, and maybe there's
a I think there's a segment of the

699
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:39.480
public that's always been ready to talk
seriously about the math and the science and

700
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:45.000
the possibilities of potential we don't know, we don't have evidence, but potential

701
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:52.880
alien visitation. Speaking, going back
to where we're talking about the distances,

702
01:00:53.360 --> 01:01:00.719
which which I think is fascinating and
hard to conceive. But I had laid

703
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:06.360
out on a show I did a
few years ago, I think with doctor

704
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:09.119
Jeffrey Bennett, who you and I
both met South Carolina. Yeah, he

705
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:14.599
is great. Now I'm hoping I'm
not misquoting him, but this will give

706
01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:20.119
someone an idea of how far away
we are from our first star, the

707
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:24.360
closest star to us, which is
about four I can't remember exactly light years

708
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:30.440
away, something somewhere around there.
So if the Earth was the size of

709
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:37.280
a basketball, I believe we and
we were in and it was in say

710
01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:44.719
Washington, d C. On the
on the East coast, and the Earth

711
01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:50.119
would be the size of a ball, and the ballpoint pen next to the

712
01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:53.440
Earth. I'm almost positive those are
the two different sizes that he was talking

713
01:01:53.480 --> 01:02:00.440
about. Then he said that the
first star would be in l A,

714
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:07.000
Los Angeles, to give you an
idea of to reduce the size of the

715
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:10.000
Earth all the way down to a
ball and a ballpoint pen, the first

716
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.840
star would be all the way over
to Los Angeles, over three thousand miles

717
01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:19.480
away. Wow see, And yeah, it's a great example. I mean

718
01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:23.639
the distances are very far. But
Jeffrey Bennett was very open minded, and

719
01:02:23.719 --> 01:02:28.719
he said, yeah, he's open
to the possibility that maybe aliens are visiting,

720
01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:32.280
and it's totally completely possible. And
you know what else he talked about,

721
01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:37.800
which is a conversation that comes up
periodically, and it came up again

722
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:45.280
this week in the media, which
is should we if aliens are out there?

723
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:50.960
Are they good or bad? And
Bennett is along the lines of actually

724
01:02:51.079 --> 01:02:58.559
most astrophysicists, which is that if
they're able to harness these incredible technologies that

725
01:02:58.599 --> 01:03:04.599
would allow them to get here and
not blow themselves up, then they most

726
01:03:04.719 --> 01:03:08.159
likely have been able to solve you
know, war and all of these interpersonal

727
01:03:08.199 --> 01:03:14.360
problems, and so they probably would
be benevolent. So I think that's an

728
01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:16.880
interesting idea, and Carl Sagan felt
the way, and it is the prominent

729
01:03:17.239 --> 01:03:24.079
theory that's out there. I remember
his up actually on the show that I

730
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:29.239
did with Jeffrey, and I know
you've you've had him on two at one

731
01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:31.719
point. But the thing that impressed
me the most was very similar to what

732
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:37.920
you're saying that he said on my
show, and he said that his fellows

733
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:45.519
at NASA when he was a visiting
astronomer there or astrophysicists there, and himself

734
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:49.920
quietly agree this is his own words
and as close to him as I can

735
01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:55.840
get that if a civilization out there
can get through the bottleneck of technology without

736
01:03:55.880 --> 01:04:00.679
blowing themselves up, then they will
indeed be traveling the stars. Yeah,

737
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:09.559
that was such a great, great
line. So speaking of very crediting ourselves

738
01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:12.719
up. No, not blowing ourselves
up. No, no, no,

739
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:19.000
no, that scares me. No, actually thinking about the potential for alien

740
01:04:19.039 --> 01:04:23.360
life because of course, and I've
got this. I don't know if you've

741
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:29.400
seen this in our new tagline at
open Minds is credible UFO news and information,

742
01:04:29.559 --> 01:04:32.039
Because that's what I think the public
needs right now, is some credible

743
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:38.840
UFO news and information. It's hard
to know what's credible out there, and

744
01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:43.400
right now now that people are are
seeing the Pentagon did some UFO research.

745
01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:45.519
Why did they do that? Is
there something credible out there? There is?

746
01:04:46.119 --> 01:04:51.800
And there's even some credible stuff when
it comes to weird creatures and aliens

747
01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:57.800
and surprisingly, you know, and
I get, you know, called out

748
01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:00.280
for my skepticism all the time,
but I do feel that there are some

749
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:05.480
incredible instances out there, and one
of them is the Rue Want Encounter.

750
01:05:06.199 --> 01:05:11.679
And we were talking earlier about what
you thought was one of your best shows

751
01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:16.880
recently, and you had one of
those witnesses. Maybe you can explain as

752
01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:26.119
concisely as you can what took place
and who sure this guest was you had?

753
01:05:27.280 --> 01:05:30.920
Yeah, So I had Selma sidk
On two times. Actually I was,

754
01:05:31.639 --> 01:05:34.000
I believe I was. Yeah.
I was the first one to actually

755
01:05:34.039 --> 01:05:41.239
interview her after she got involved with
Randy Nickerson in doing The Ariel School,

756
01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:46.840
a phenomena movie. She was at
the site when she was a young girl,

757
01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:49.519
I believe, I want to say. She said that she was eleven

758
01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:55.920
years old when it happened. And
the first time, the first time I

759
01:05:55.960 --> 01:06:00.920
did a show with her went viral
basically, And so when I met her

760
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:08.880
again at the MOFON Symposium down in
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, we had

761
01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:13.199
a nice conversation and I asked her, I said, you know what,

762
01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:17.000
what has have you gotten any feedback
from when we did the show? And

763
01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:20.440
she goes, boy, have I
She said, I've heard from people all

764
01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:25.280
over the world And I said really, and you know, so it was

765
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:31.880
really interesting and she's been connected with
you know, even through YouTube YouTube video

766
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:36.639
I did with her, you know, she has got connected with even former

767
01:06:36.679 --> 01:06:43.320
classmates that couldn't find and you know, pretty amazing. So I interviewed her

768
01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:48.360
again the second time down you know, at the Mofon Symposium, and this

769
01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:51.119
time and it's on YouTube. It's
not a lot of views. I'm kind

770
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:57.360
of disappointed. But anyway, she's
very nice by the way, and very

771
01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:03.760
articulate, and she you know,
actually filled in some holes from not from

772
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:10.159
her story, but just from people
that commented on the first show I did

773
01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:14.559
with her. A com one comment
I thought was very good, and he

774
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:18.960
said, the fact that you didn't
ask her why she didn't have, you

775
01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:23.599
know, any telepathy when she was
standing right next to this being, she

776
01:07:23.679 --> 01:07:29.159
was only four feet away or so, then you know, you really missed

777
01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:32.719
out by not asking why she thought
she may not have had any telepathy.

778
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:38.519
And I thought, wow, it's
interesting thought. So when I these kids

779
01:07:39.079 --> 01:07:43.840
like saw this craft and an entity
come out, and yeah, we should

780
01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:45.679
we should tell this, You're right, ye should we have? We have

781
01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:51.000
time here, I think we should
tell basically the story of when this happened.

782
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:55.880
It was back in the nineteen nineties. I can't right off the bat.

783
01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:58.960
I can't tell you the the date
of it. I want to say

784
01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:05.519
ninety five, but I sorry about
that. So in South Africa, at

785
01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:13.079
the Ariel school that's in Zimbabwe,
all these about sixty five or so school

786
01:08:13.159 --> 01:08:17.720
children were outside, and oddly enough, the teachers were having a teacher's conference

787
01:08:18.319 --> 01:08:23.560
and there was only one adult outside
and she was in this shock that sold

788
01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:26.800
like snacks and things like that.
So she was out out of the line

789
01:08:26.840 --> 01:08:31.319
of sight and this craft was some
people say there were two crafts, but

790
01:08:31.399 --> 01:08:39.359
this craft came down and they all
went out, you know, curios curiously

791
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:43.199
to look at it. And as
far as she knows, the thing that

792
01:08:43.239 --> 01:08:45.760
she had in common with all her
classmates is nobody ever heard of a ufo

793
01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:50.520
or flying sauce or anything like that
in Southern Africa just wasn't on, you

794
01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:55.560
know, wasn't anything they knew about, and so they didn't have any idea

795
01:08:55.560 --> 01:08:59.239
what it was. And it was
just hovering above the ground. And this

796
01:08:59.479 --> 01:09:05.239
being some people say two beings.
She remembers one that came out had like

797
01:09:05.399 --> 01:09:13.039
straight hair, it had big,
huge black eyes, and it had a

798
01:09:13.119 --> 01:09:17.319
porcelain like skin like something. She
said that she couldn't really describe. So

799
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:20.960
she was only four feet away from
this. And this is one of the

800
01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:29.319
things she said in the second interview
that was really quite moving I think is

801
01:09:29.359 --> 01:09:34.520
that she was eye locked with it, eye to eye with this, and

802
01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:40.479
she realized that she had to see
how her brother and sister were there younger

803
01:09:40.479 --> 01:09:44.600
than her, so she was kind
of always watching over them. So she

804
01:09:44.720 --> 01:09:47.479
said that one of the hardest things
she ever did in her life was to

805
01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:54.039
break the lock, the eye lock
with the creature. Hmm. And so

806
01:09:54.199 --> 01:09:57.000
I asked her the question, I
said, why do you think you didn't

807
01:09:57.159 --> 01:10:02.000
have any telepathy like other kids said
that they got messages that we should take

808
01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:09.600
care of the earth, et cetera. So anyway, she said, well,

809
01:10:09.760 --> 01:10:15.479
I'm not one hundred percent sure that
I didn't. And so then I

810
01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:18.479
brought up will have you ever thought
of having a regression hypnotherapy? And she

811
01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:21.159
said, no, I don't want
to do that. You know, she's

812
01:10:21.159 --> 01:10:25.399
too scared to do that. Maybe
someday, but not now. But I

813
01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:29.319
don't know. Do you want to
fill in for the first time person that

814
01:10:29.399 --> 01:10:30.760
doesn't know about that story? What
else happened? I mean, I can

815
01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:33.920
go into it more if you'd like, no, I think you got all

816
01:10:33.920 --> 01:10:41.000
the big points. And then yet
the it was just a group of kids,

817
01:10:41.239 --> 01:10:45.159
and they all seem very credible,
and years later many of them have

818
01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:49.159
come out. It was in nineteen
ninety four when this occurred, and many

819
01:10:49.199 --> 01:10:59.560
of them now have spoken with with
you mentioned him before, Randy Nicholson,

820
01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:04.600
Randy Nickerson, and also James Fox
for his video that's coming out and so

821
01:11:05.079 --> 01:11:10.840
and and they recall, you know, these things happening. In fact,

822
01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:17.039
we also have an interview of Emily
Trim, one of the other witnesses,

823
01:11:17.119 --> 01:11:23.159
and it was a very amazing moving
moment a couple of years ago at the

824
01:11:23.239 --> 01:11:28.800
UFO Congress when she did a talk
and it was just very emotional for her

825
01:11:28.960 --> 01:11:33.319
and for for everybody. And what's
interesting about her is she's I've met her.

826
01:11:34.359 --> 01:11:39.439
She came to our office once and
she had a bunch of artworks.

827
01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:44.640
So she has artwork that has these
weird symbols in it and stuff that she

828
01:11:44.760 --> 01:11:53.520
feels is inspired by her encounter,
which is also really interesting. And it

829
01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:59.079
just seems like, you know,
uh, these people had long term effects

830
01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:05.800
to their experience that just adds to
and they all come across so credible.

831
01:12:06.920 --> 01:12:13.039
It's just amazing. Yeah, it
really isn't for the person that's not familiar

832
01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:19.439
with the incident. You know,
John Mack, Harvard professor and psychology,

833
01:12:19.479 --> 01:12:25.359
actually interviewed the children and you can
see a lot of their interviews on YouTube

834
01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:28.560
for instance, and I'm telling you
there's some of them that just give me

835
01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:31.079
the chills. Yeah, we are
actually out of time, Oh my gosh.

836
01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:38.640
So yes we are. Go look
at Aerial School or Zimbabwe UFO or

837
01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:43.840
Aerial UFO and you'll find this,
or go look up Emily trim Uh and

838
01:12:44.399 --> 01:12:46.760
you'll see some of this. Because
Selma's name is probably going to be difficult

839
01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:59.039
to spell, but absolutely one of
the most incredible alleged encounters with an entity

840
01:12:59.079 --> 01:13:01.079
that came out of one of these
crafts. But we're completely out of time.

841
01:13:01.159 --> 01:13:05.159
So thank you Martin for spending some
time and talking some UFOs with me.

842
01:13:05.960 --> 01:13:12.439
You are welcome. Be sure to
check out so on our YouTube at

843
01:13:12.439 --> 01:13:15.239
the Open Minds YouTube. I've got
my UFO Live that I'm doing where I

844
01:13:15.319 --> 01:13:20.399
do news every Thursday at six pm
live and then answer questions for people who

845
01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:24.640
are in the YouTube chats with me
live. So that's been a lot of

846
01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:29.000
fun and that's been going very well. And then also we've got a video

847
01:13:29.119 --> 01:13:33.359
from the Devil's Tower of me and
some other UFO researchers talking about Close Encounters,

848
01:13:33.399 --> 01:13:36.960
the movie and some other cool stuff
that we'll have up there soon.

849
01:13:38.560 --> 01:13:43.159
Also, there's some new videos on
the Video on Demand for the International UFO

850
01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:46.920
Congress. In fact, you can
watch Emily Trim's presentation and others on the

851
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:50.560
video on Demand. You could go
to Ufocongress dot com to find out more

852
01:13:50.600 --> 01:13:56.119
about that. Also, you can
find some cool T shirts at open mindsat

853
01:13:56.199 --> 01:14:00.720
Tv, either some Open Minds branded
stuff or at the uf Congress store.

854
01:14:00.840 --> 01:14:03.760
Lots of cool stuff there. So, and I guess you might not know

855
01:14:03.800 --> 01:14:10.399
this yet, I will be speaking
at the next Alien Con in Baltimore in

856
01:14:10.520 --> 01:14:14.399
November, so check that out.
I'll get some more information out on that

857
01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:18.359
as time comes goes on. But
thank you very much to Caleb Hanks for

858
01:14:18.399 --> 01:14:24.119
the opening and close music. Thank
you to Systematics for the bumper music.

859
01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:30.239
Thank you again, Martin. You
want to tell everybody bye bye everyone,

860
01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:33.640
Thank you so much. It was
great. Until next time. Audio smood

861
01:14:33.800 --> 01:15:21.319
Chat Jos you mus