WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:05.599 Your job is to ultimately influence the decision criteria with your differentiation. You have 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:09.199 to understand it cold, and you have to understand it from the customer's point 3 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:17.079 of view. You're listening to the Audible Ready Podcast, the show that helps 4 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:22.000 you and your teams sell more Faster. Will feature sales leaders sharing their best 5 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:26.239 insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth. 6 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:29.760 Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in B to B 7 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:36.159 sales effectiveness. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to the Audible Ready Sales 8 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:40.320 Podcast. I'm Rachel Klatt Miller. I know that some of you have some 9 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:45.719 big sales goals as we start out the new year, those big wail accounts 10 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:49.600 that you'd like to attack. John Kaplan is here today to give you some 11 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:54.920 motivation on attacking those accounts with incumbents. Hi. John, Hey, Rachel, 12 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:58.960 how are you good? Good? This is a topic that we get 13 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.200 frequently and you probably have a good like level set for us as we talked 14 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:04.599 about this today. Yeah, I think for this subject, let's just get 15 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:10.920 our minds right when talking about incumbents. We have to have a competitive mindset 16 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:15.560 to do this well. And I'm reminded of a little story that we'll just 17 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.200 maybe just used here throughout, But one of my most rewarding years in selling 18 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:25.079 came from a focus on competitive installs, And to be honest with you, 19 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.439 it wasn't even my idea. I was just coming off a great year and 20 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:34.840 struggling with the mindset that I drained the pond, which is probably really relevant 21 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.799 for a lot of people at the end of this year when you're thinking about 22 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:40.239 the next year, and you know, I didn't feel like that there was 23 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:46.239 anything left in my territory. So luckily I had a great boss who knew 24 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:49.480 that I would go through the struggle every single year, and he was proactive 25 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:53.519 about it. So he called me in at the end of the year, 26 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.200 congratulated me on my performance and said, let's talk about next year. And 27 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.319 that was like a punch in the stomach for me. But that's not what 28 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.920 he meant it to be. So he was all excited about what he called 29 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:09.919 the white space, and the white space was where my competition was and I 30 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:16.199 was not. And he and I went on to work through in identifying those 31 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:22.000 opportunities and putting together a plan of attack, and I got to tell you, 32 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:24.680 it's probably one of the most rewarding years of selling I ever had, 33 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:29.199 and it turned out to be my biggest year in selling for that company. 34 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:34.680 So jem, let's start out with really assessing that plan of attack. We've 35 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:38.680 done some testimonials or reps who have done this, and it always starts with 36 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.919 great preparation, good sales fundamentals. But if you're going to go after an 37 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:46.520 account that you know has an incumbent, what are your first action steps? 38 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:51.960 Yeah, I think I'd start off with, you know, identifying your opportunities 39 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:57.599 by matching them with your ICP or ideal customer profile. And why would I 40 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:01.319 do that? Because that means that you'll be real. Event if you're isolating 41 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:05.840 those accounts that have the ideal customer profile, you know you're going to be 42 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:09.319 relevant. So next, prepare your discovery. What do I know about the 43 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:14.560 account, their business, their industry. Who do I know in the account 44 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:19.199 their industry? You know that might be able to give me a warm introduction 45 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:23.639 and you know. And then the bottom line is it's our job to identify 46 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:30.479 problems that have negative consequences that impact business issues. Then I have to be 47 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:35.599 able to map that back to what I do to what's important to them, 48 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:42.159 ultimately influencing decision criteria with our differentiation. All the while, I need to 49 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:47.159 be executing that strategy with champions and economic buyers, Yes, iding your opportunities, 50 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:52.800 maagining their ICP. Going through that process in the beginning can help you 51 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:55.599 really formulate a plan of attack, as we said, but one that's going 52 00:03:55.639 --> 00:04:00.879 to be successful. And when you actually get the convert station, let's say 53 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.800 you get an opening to have the conversation, that's not the time do you 54 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:06.840 ignore a current Stay right, You don't want to ignore that they have an 55 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:12.000 incumbent. You also don't want to go in real hard because the customer may 56 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:16.959 see it as unnecessary to replace an incumbent and you could seem irrelevant. Yeah. 57 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:19.879 I think those are really good points, Rachel. When it comes to 58 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:25.759 the incumbent, I find that buyers are loyal to those not present in a 59 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.240 conversation. What I mean by that is they tend not to tell you, 60 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:33.120 or be ready to tell you about the bad things about that incumbent, even 61 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:38.319 though there probably are things that they struggle with. So and one way to 62 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:43.160 combat that is to ask easier questions, like what do you like most about 63 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:48.160 working with XYZ incumbent, So people tend to be more honest when asked this 64 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:53.319 question, you know, what do you like most about this current situation? 65 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:57.920 And they most people don't want to mislead you, so they're probably going to 66 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.720 tell you a few things about what they like, and then they're going to 67 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.360 talk about what their struggles are. But they're not going to feel like you're 68 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.959 both attacking somebody who isn't there. So give that one a try. That 69 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.079 one works really really well. And then also, you know, focus on 70 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:15.360 your buyer, take an outside in approach. First, make it all about 71 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:19.040 them and earn the right to make it all about you. You want to 72 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:23.759 be confident in your value, so you want to make sure that you are 73 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:28.040 prepared with the four essential questions, What problems do I solve for my customer, 74 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:31.279 How specifically do I solve those? How do I solve them differently or 75 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:36.480 better than the competition? And where have I done it before? Next, 76 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:42.839 you want to show empathy. You want to understand their business and you want 77 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.680 to listen. That's the best way to show empathy. And then make sure 78 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:51.079 you have a clear understanding of your differentiation. Yeah, I want to dig 79 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:55.720 in on that differentiation point because to your point, John, you don't want 80 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.759 to go after an incumbent unless you really think you have a shot, And 81 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:02.920 all those things go into thinking that you have a shot, And so a 82 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:09.040 crucial component is understanding your differentiation. How do you do it better or differently 83 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:12.399 than the incumbent that's in there now. And this is something that you really 84 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.920 should have a point of view on before you ever even approach the conversation with 85 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:20.000 the customer. Yeah, Rachel, I mean, you got to know your 86 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:26.399 differentiation inside and out, and your job is to ultimately influence the decision criteria 87 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:30.480 with your differentiation. You have to understand it cold, and you have to 88 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.480 understand it from the customer's point of view. So we talk a lot about 89 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:41.120 differentiation that's unique and differentiation that only you can do. And if that's the 90 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.759 case, you get it into the required capabilities a decision criteria and you're done. 91 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:48.839 You win every time. But more than likely you're dealing with comparative differentiation 92 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:53.519 because if it's any good, if unique differentiation is any good, it's going 93 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:57.920 to be copied over time. So mostly we're competing on the playing field with 94 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:02.079 comparative differentiation. Which means others say they can do it, but the way 95 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:08.600 we do it is better for the customer. It's either faster, more accurate. 96 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:13.519 So this is where we're competing most often is on the comparative level. 97 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:18.680 It always has to be of value to the customer. And a great way 98 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:23.680 to check yourself on that is to take the differentiation and look at it and 99 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:28.040 say, so what if I don't have that differentiator? What bad things will 100 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:30.680 happen to me if I'm the customer? And then just start looking for questions 101 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:35.040 to ask. That's how we set traps for the competition. And then we 102 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:38.959 also want to make sure that's validated out in the marketplace. So we got 103 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.759 to ask ourselves, says who, And that's like a proof point for the 104 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:46.920 differentiator. So so what and says who? Very important? Yeah, those 105 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:51.079 are great question to ask yourself. I mean, I think what John is 106 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:55.879 saying is that for those of you listening, you know you want to understand 107 00:07:55.959 --> 00:07:59.399 your differentiation, but you've got to go deeper. It's so what, it's 108 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:03.680 just says who, Because if you're trying to unseat and incumbent, there has 109 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.199 to be a compelling reason for the buyer to do so it has to be 110 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:11.399 meaningful for the buyer because we all know how difficult change can be, so 111 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:16.519 aligning your differentiation to better outcomes for that customer is really going to be critical 112 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.519 to your in seeding and incumbent. So, John, I know that sometimes 113 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:26.759 you use the term slow dance when talking about a sales process, when doing 114 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:31.440 discovery, when engaging prospects, and that term for me comes to mind when 115 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:35.279 we're talking about unseating and incumbent. Yeah, I mean when you talk about 116 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:39.320 slow dance, it's kind of like thinking about playing the long game. So 117 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.480 everybody loves to be led, provided that you can take them to a place 118 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:48.080 they can't get to on their own. And we know through the seller deficit 119 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:52.639 disorder that most buyers don't believe sellers understand their business and they don't believe sellers 120 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.960 listen very well. So the slow dance is you first need to make it 121 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.480 all about them and earn their right to make it all about you, which 122 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:07.679 means we have to ask a series of discovery questions to uncover pain, which 123 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:13.440 has negative consequences and has business impact. We need to establish decision criteria to 124 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.919 solve that problem, and that decision criteria needs to be from the customer's point 125 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:24.279 of view and influenced by our differentiation. And lastly, we always want to 126 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.519 know how they will measure success. And again we need to influence this here. 127 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.879 So once we get all that, we've built our case, which allows 128 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.519 us to say, here's what I heard you say, and we can substitute 129 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:41.480 in their positive business outcomes. Here's what you said the capabilities needed to be. 130 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:45.720 We can call that decision criteria require capability, and here's how you said 131 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:50.000 that you will measure success metrics. And once I have all this, I 132 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:54.279 can pivot to talk about how we do that, specifically, how we do 133 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.759 the decision criteria, how we do it better or differently than the competition. 134 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.960 That's our differentiation. And here's where we've done this before, which are proof 135 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.559 points. So lastly, we need to be building this case with people who 136 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:15.360 have power and influence inside the account and these are champions and economic buyers. 137 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:18.360 And in my beginning story that I shared with you about my boss and I 138 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:26.200 targeting those competitive installs, these proof points became critical once I beat that competitor, 139 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:28.240 and so once I beat them the first time, the rest fell like 140 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:33.159 Domino's. Yeah, That's such a good point because then you have the proof 141 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:35.919 point to show that you can do it with the next customer, just getting 142 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:39.519 that first one. So, John, once you feel like you've done some 143 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:43.159 discovery, you've got a good case. How do you orchestrate it? I 144 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.159 mean, are you pitching a pilot project? You try to go for a 145 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.440 small piece of some business to try to get in there. What's your take 146 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:54.840 on this strategy? Yeah, I mean I would say with pilots, sometimes 147 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.120 you do and sometimes you don't. I don't mean to be fickled there. 148 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:03.159 Let me just expand a little bit. So I found that most customers need 149 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:07.360 to understand that your stuff will work in their environment, so some type of 150 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:13.200 validation or proof of value is normally required. And a good rule for me 151 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.159 has been if I do a pilot, I only do it if I have 152 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:22.679 a champion. I've met the economic buyer, and I'm piloting criteria that we 153 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.759 can win, and I have a commitment that they will purchase when validated. 154 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:31.519 So I don't want to be in the kicking the tires business. So what 155 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.360 I noticed over time was that my proof points got better and better so that 156 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:41.399 I could reference those similar environments as the validation itself and use them as proof 157 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:46.919 points versus having to do a pilot. So let me just be clear. 158 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:52.039 I know that a lot of the audience listening has a wide variety of go 159 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:56.799 to market motions, and many of you listening are part of a product led 160 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.679 growth or PLG market motion. So this is where many people tend to push 161 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:07.399 quickly to demos. But my rules still remain. We better be demoing in 162 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:13.159 a way that is against established criteria, that is favorable for us, with 163 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:20.600 champions, with economic buyers, with the intent to solve impactful problems. It's 164 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.480 still important when people are spending money. We have a great podcast that we 165 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:28.360 did on pilot projects. We kind of talk about some of these concepts that 166 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:33.200 John mentioned here, So go ahead and check that out in the show notes. 167 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.360 And we're summing this up in a ten minute podcast. John, I 168 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:45.840 know, unseeing incumbents is no easy fee, but there's also value in determining 169 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:48.399 where you can do it right. That's our job as elite sellers. It's 170 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:52.519 not an easy feat, but it can be done. Give us a bottom 171 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:56.080 line and some spirits on this topic as we wrap up. Yeah, I 172 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.200 mean, first, I think you have to have a mindset that you're going 173 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.639 to go after comparetive placements, and you've got to feel like you're jumping into 174 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:07.000 warm water. They're already buying what you're selling if you follow the stick to 175 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:13.120 the ideal customer profile, they're just not buying from you yet. So understand 176 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.919 and leverage your differentiation being it for the long game, which means you know, 177 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.960 build your case with champions and economic buyers and criteria that you can win, 178 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.879 and make sure you do a great job measuring the success. So at 179 00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:31.840 the end when you do that, if you measure the success, you're going 180 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:37.120 to have great proof points to share with the next customer to unseat the next 181 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:43.200 incumbent. And again, once one falls, they all can fall. And 182 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.080 there we go. I want to give that a little dramatic pause after you 183 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.320 said that, John, when one falls, it fall. Appreciate you going 184 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.080 through that topic with me today. My pleasure go get them all right, 185 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:58.039 Go get them everybody, And thank you for listening to the audible Ready Sales 186 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:03.960 podcast. Management. We're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Our 187 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:11.600 proven methodologies deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give 188 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.840 your teams the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale. 189 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:20.639 Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get 190 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.720 started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot com. You've been listening to the Audible 191 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:28.639 Ready podcast. To not miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your 192 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:31.879 favorite podcast player until next time.