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fifty percent off. Now, PW
Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wide Killer

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Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for
this week's Interview Classic where Wade Killer Interview

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is one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers ten
years ago. This week, I was

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joined by two EXWWE Creative Team members, Matt McCarthy and Edrew Goldstein and also

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Pro wrestler Just Incredible, former ECW
champion and WWWE wrestler, and we review

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the year twenty twenty three. It
made some bold predictions for twenty twenty four.

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Including thoughts on potential wrestulminga thirty matches
twenty twenty thirteen, busts, thoughts

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on Dot B network, t Anda's
future, and more. This is part

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two of a two part show.
Part one was dropped here on the weight

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Keller Pro Wrestling podcast feed yesterday,
and this is the second half a little

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longer than the first half, if
that's mathematically possible. And it is our

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first weight Killer Prosing Podcast episode of
the new year. So happy New year

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everybody. It is January first,
twenty fourteen. So if you have not

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listened to part one of this conversation, I certainly would recommend you start there.

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Just scroll down to that episode and
download and listen to that first,

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and then come back for this one. All right, we now move to

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the VFP after show portion of the
show. Let's begin with a prediction on

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the WWE network and thoughts on what
shape it's going to take and the number

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of subscribers they've been talking about one
to two million. Uh, just some

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general thoughts from you guys predicting twenty
fourteen success or failure for the WWE network.

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Guy, let's begin with Matt on
this one. I mean there is

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something just universally appealing about pro wrestling. I think, just in general for

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the viewing public. And that being
said, I think paying upwards of fifty

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dollars to seventy dollars for a pay
per view like WrestleMania, let's say that

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that limits your audience. Now,
if they're going to be putting WrestleMania on

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this SEWW network, and if it's
going to cost you know, ten bucks,

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fifteen bucks, I don't know.
They may, they may get over

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a million, you know, they
very well might. I would never in

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a million years even attempt to make
an estimate or make a prediction, but

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because I can see it going either
way, but just shared why, I

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think they may get a lot of
people, hopefully if they are smart enough

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to not get in their own way
and just show old wrestling and not turn

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them to another network full of god
awful reality TV. Though I would say

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I'm very much looking forward to Legends
House. I know I've been waiting to

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see this for a long time that
yes, I need to see these episodes.

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But I agree with Matt. It
should mostly just see old matches.

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It should just be WWE classics on
demand. But the channel, let's let's

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Andrew, you're since you've chimed in
already, what what kind of level of

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success do you think they'll have and
will it include? Do you think it

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will include WrestleMania, all pay per
views or some sort of ex world.

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Why do you think this will evolve? I'm uh, I don't have the

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biggest opinions on the network. I
just I think it has to involve some

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sort of you know, incentive for
people who purchase the channel to be able

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to view pay per views. There's
no way they can expect people to pay

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monthly for a channel and then also
pay monthly for their pay per views,

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So I think that has to be
incorporated in some way. I don't know

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what the pricing is going to be
like, but like Matt said, if

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those things are wrapped in it,
you know I would I never doubt vincetick

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Man. So he says they're gonna
have over a million subscribers. You know,

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I put my money with Vince Man. How many times has that guy

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been wrong in terms of business decisions? The XFL, the World nightclub,

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the boxing and there's been a few. But I know what you say,

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ed comes to break. This is
what's interesting about the network. I'm saying

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it directly involved with wrestling. No, No, that's what I was going

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to say, Andrew. It's what's
interesting about this is it is kind of

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a hybrid between the two. It's
pro and I wrote about this in the

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news letter this on my page to
Radar column that this is a really seismic

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shift in the way that wrestling is
presented. And I'm kind of curious on

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all of your opinions on this tool, though I do want to get justin

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thoughts on the network, but this
kind of plays into it is does putting

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pay per views on the network,
and we won't call them pay per views

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anymore. They just become monthly live
specials essentially. Will wwe approach those differently

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because they've had to build towards themed
pay per views where maybe the timing didn't

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work out to put people in hell
on a cell or put people in a

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chamber or whatever, and sometimes it
just got the pacing of a storyline on

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television watched by five six million people. They would have done differently if they

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didn't have to promote this damn pay
per view on Sunday. And so once

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they get people with this recurring subscription
paying a lower monthly fee. Do the

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live events become less important than trying
to keep raw ratings up and SmackDown ratings

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up because there's this big TV network
deal coming up. I'm kind of curious

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too, how it is kind of
part two of this of the question about

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the network is how does it change
the way WWE operates In a way I

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think they'll exhale and go, oh, we got this guaranteed money for the

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next two to three years with its
network conglomerate. On our new TV deal,

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we double or triple our money.
We have half a million to two

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million people whatever it is, paying
ten fifteen bucks a month, and it's

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renewing. We don't have to hard
sell anybody anything anymore. We can just

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present in a weekly wrestling series that's
entertaining but not actually promote matches and feuds

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that people feel the need that they
have to watch. They just sort of

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become like viewers are of Jimmy Kimmel. It's just something to tune into pass

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some time and some characters that they
like. And it is a very different

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business. And that's one of the
things I wrote about in the newsletter this

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week. So justin your thoughts on
the network and maybe what I just said

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to well, I mean, it's
look, we don't know what to expect,

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but I believe it's somewhere in the
middle of what both of you guys

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said. I think it's going to
be uncharted territory. I think the originals

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the initial subscription will be a little
soft. I think it'll be in the

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range of fifty thousand, maybe a
little higher. But I don't think it's

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going to get into the million,
you know. I think people are gonna

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want to see what it is.
I think if it is presented as you

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know classics, you know, like
how the Classics on demand. Everybody loved

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that. I mean, I had
that for Christ's sake, you know,

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it was it was a good deal. We watched old school wrestling, a

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lot of stuff, you know,
great content, and they know how to

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produce great content, but don't get
it twisted, you know. And they

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have a great library of pro wrestling. You know. If they get some

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you know, some reality stuff,
I'm sure they will do. It'll it'll

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be it'll be interesting to see,
but it will change the way pay per

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views or their live or whatever events, whatever you want to call it.

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The events, you know, their
special live events, you know, their

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pay per views will be it's going
to change it. Yeah, I think

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the focus will be then shifted.
It'll be you know, it'll be a

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definite experimentation. I don't think they
fully know what to expect. I don't

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think anybody knows this is it really. I mean, if they're telling you,

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they know they're lying, you know, because this is this is a

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huge shift. You're going to selling
paper views to Quite frankly, you're you

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know, you're selling your brand right
now. You know, it's going to

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be no different than an HBO uh
to subscribe to WWE. So it'll it'll

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be very interesting, of course,
you know, I think they'll keep their

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major you know, Survivor series,
Summer Slams, WrestleMania's Royal Rubbles, of

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course, but uh, you know, I think the other ones will be

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uh, you know, will be
subject to evaluation and what they feel is

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right for the network and how else. And believe me, Vince ain't going

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to be satisfied with that. He'll
find another way to pimp his his stuff,

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to make other you know, to
make more money on the you know,

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outside of the network. When when
he's comfortable with what he has,

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so it's definitely going to be interesting. I think eventually it will be slow,

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but I think eventually he will succeed
because there is still a great demand

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for this business. But I do, I do worry that the demand of

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progress thing really is is starting to
dwindle. You know, the numbers of

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the you know, for the raw
broadcasts, and you know, just in

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general of just being out there and
interacting with fans on a weekly basis and

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you know, doing what we do. Wait, you know, I just

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see that the business to me at
least, is at an all time like,

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eh, you know, So I
just think a new concept is going

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to have to come. Uh.
I think the old guard that's there now

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is going to have to go and
some real new ideas are going to have

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to pop up to really take it
to the level that Vince's envisioning. But

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you know, if they're not,
you know, there'll be the Evince and

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Company or their own worst enemies.
Sometimes they're brilliant and they're also very ignorant.

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So I think that if they,
you know, if they could somehow

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bridge the gap and not be so
self absorbed and think outside the box.

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I think the business will flourish.
And unfortunately WW is the business and you

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know it's it's scary, but that's
going to be the way of the next

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five years. So but I still
think it will work out. I still

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think that the B two B network
will work out, but soft at first.

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And Matt, you were you were
there when the network discussion was Vinces

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like, we want to do this, we want to do this, We're

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going to make it happen. Uh, where do you from a timeline standpoint?

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And and this over the top format
that appears to be the direction they're

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going in, although we'll know more
next week a press conference. I assume

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how do you think Vince is looking
at the network today compared to his original

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vision for it? How how do
you think it's changed and and how do

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you think it will change the way
that they write and promote matches. I

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don't think Vince, Matt, we're
losing again. We're getting some bad recept

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You're not sure, but the deal
is I don't know. I think all

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right, no, reading that,
okay, I don't think there's any way

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that Vince's vision has changed. It's
just instead of it being on you know,

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cable it's going to be on whatever, streaming, the internet, whatever

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you want to call it. I'm
sure there's not a doubt in Vince's mind

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that it's going to be successful as
far as it doesn't even necessarily have to

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change the way that they promote what
used to be pay per views, which

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will now be I don't know,
network shows are just big shows because it's

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nothing needs to change. Really.
All it is is that, if you

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want to look at it this way, they are increasing the value of the

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pay per views and decreasing the cost
of the consumer. Meaning if I'm just

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you know, like me, for
example, I am a big enough fan

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and a big enough dope that I
am going to shell out the fifty bucks

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every month just to watch this one
pay per view show. But now you're

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telling me I can shell out fifteen
bucks and watch that one pay per view

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show and twenty four hours a day
of all the wrestling that exists, you

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know, the rest of the month. Y Yeah, I mean it's it

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is so enticing to me, and
it really if they did something as Brashes

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broadcasting Raw and smack Down on the
network, you know, I have no

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shame in saying I will cancel my
cable. That's the only thing keeping me

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cooked in, you know, because
I got Hulu, I got Netflix.

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00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.240
I got no reason because and I
don't watch live sports. This is the

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only live sport that I watch,
you know, And if it's being presented

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somewhere else for a fraction of the
cost on the in yep, and I

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don't think it has I don't think
it has to change any of the storylines

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or any of the the way it's
presented because you're still building to that event

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and you're still trying to entice people
to put their money down to watch it,

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because it's if they do include WrestleMania, this Wrestumia thirties on the network.

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The way that I would envision it
is, by the time we get

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to WrestleMania thirty one, now that's
back on regular pay per view, and

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then you know, if you're into
the network, you've had an entire year

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00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:05.480
to see how great the network is, You're still going to be hooked into

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00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.320
the network. That's that would be
my assumption. Let me let me go

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00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:13.080
to Andrew. Now let's change subjects. I want a prediction. I'm going

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00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:16.279
to give four names. Who has
a better year and is in a better

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00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:22.159
position at the end of twenty thirteen, who rises more bray Wyatt, Damien

219
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.480
Sandout, Roman Reigns or Biggie Langston. Four people seeming to be in a

220
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:28.840
position to get a push Andrew.
Who has a better year and who is

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00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:33.720
a bust cool? Great question?
In fact, after this question, I

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unfortunately have to say goodbye to everybody. But okay, let's see. I

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would say it's, you know,
the smart money's on bray Wyatt, but

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I would I would go with the
Roman rain, you know, breaking him

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00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:56.759
off from the shield, which the
seeds have been planted for that in the

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last couple of rows, and just
his work in the ring and the possibilities

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00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:07.759
for matches and his look and everything. The only thing you know that bray

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00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:14.120
sort of has over him is you
know, character and promo. But I

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00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.919
think Roman Range has a top baby
face a year from now. I can

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00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:23.720
completely see that. I could completely
see that guy being this sort of herculean

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00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:30.960
you know, top baby face a
year from now then obviously bray Wyatt definitely

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in that conversation, and I like, you know, like I said,

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the comeback top babyface fire that I've
seen from Giggy Langston I'm slowly becoming a

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believer with the fans getting behind that
guy stand out. I feel like he's

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swimming in an abyss of mediocrity right
now. Unfortunately not not his fault,

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but I think they've run out of
stuff to do with him right now.

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But yeah, yeah, I'm putting
my money with Roman reins futures. Bet

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Andrew, thank you, thanks for
being on the show. Thank you,

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00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:15.240
PJ. Nice to nice to talk
with you. Matt, always a pleasure,

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00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.200
sir, and Wade, thank you
always for having me on. Happy

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00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:25.160
Year to everybody, and check out
my column Goldstein on wrestling PW Mania.

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00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:26.759
I love you guys, looked over
it. I likes I like your pet

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00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.839
peech from glancing at and I'm gonna
get that a good read. Thanks man.

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00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.200
You bet all right by Matt,
PJ. Let me check with you

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because I said, we go about
ninety we're at that point. You guys

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00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.880
have five ten more minutes to hit
a couple other subjects rapid fire because of

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course with cool and Matt A sure
cool good, all right, So same

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00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.440
question, I'll go to you,
PJ. Next, Bray White, Damien

249
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.400
Sano, Roman Reigns or Biggie try
to pick one guy that you think will

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00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.039
have the best year and be higher
than everybody else at the end of the

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year, And is there a bust
in there that you could see happening.

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Who might bust? I say Bray
only because of the way they're you know,

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they're they're using him now. I
think he's a very talented guy.

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00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.839
I think his delivery is amazing,
you know, very engaging, you know,

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00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.319
the stuff, the work he's been
doing, very convincing and in his

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00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:21.799
role. You know, I think
he's money. The bust that I see,

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00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.519
not that I think he's not.
You know, in no way am

258
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.119
I saying that that he's bad.
But I think, you know, the

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00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:33.039
one guy I could see that fumbling
up is the one we talked about earlier,

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00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:36.880
is Picky, And I think that's
the you know, that that could

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00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.680
go either way. I think,
you know, if if he's able to

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00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:45.279
find his niche and kind of get
his get a groove going, and you

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00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:48.599
know, kind of ride that wave
and find out who he is, and

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I think he'll he'll have success.
He certainly has a look, and he

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00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:56.000
has fire and he has ability.
So but I also think that that could

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00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.200
burn quickly too, if if you
know, on his you know, if

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00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:02.519
he's not ready for so, but
I don't know, you know, so

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00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.119
I think that those are my two
picks. I think bray Is is definite

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00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:08.480
money, you know, and uh
and the you know, we'll shoot what

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00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:18.200
happens, and I met I think
the smart money is Roman Reigns because and

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00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:26.759
especially thinking back to his NXT stuff
before, before the Shield, he definitely

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00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.200
he had the air of already kind
of being money, being a money player.

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He's great looking, he's got a
great look. He's can clearly talk

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00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:41.279
and clearly work and clearly has the
blessing of Mount Olympus, you know.

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And the bust I mean has to
be Damian Sandow just because I guess,

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00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:53.880
I guess Mount Olympus is bored with
him now, because it's just I don't

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get it. I don't understand.
I don't It shouldn't have derailed him so

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00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:07.799
much, cashing in and not getting
it. It's a character like that needs

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00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.920
to have things to complain about,
you know, And that's why it's it's

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I mean, he's gonna wind up. It's not gonna be as bad as

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what was his gamick when he first
came in. When he's in that tag

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00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:26.920
team. Oh anyway, I can't
think of it, but it won't be

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as bad as all that. But
I feel like he could wind up being

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like a miss whereas like they've they've
taken away his confidence, you know,

285
00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:41.279
like they've definitely taken away miss confidence. And I feel it isn't that isn't

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00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.039
isn't isn't that the fault of the
ww EI though in general, absolutely that's

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00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.359
what kills me. The way we're
talking, this is all on them.

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00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:52.480
Shouldn't they try to? I mean, I mean, I didn't mean to

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00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:53.960
touch you off, brother, I'm
so sorry. It's just, you know,

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00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.960
I just I just think that it's
it's up to them to try to

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00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.640
they as many guys possible, even
if you're making them do the job or

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00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.599
whatever, just but to try to
keep everybody relevant. But these are your

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00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:10.839
money players. These are guys that
you're trying to work with. It's not

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00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.440
like these people grow on trees,
you know, So I just you know,

295
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.960
it's like these guys. Everybody is
so short sighted over there. Sometimes,

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00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.200
you know, they get they get
wrapped up in their ways and it's

297
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.240
like, oh, we're going to
go with this guy and fuck everything again

298
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:27.759
sorry to ask for everybody else,
you know, it just gets me crazy

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00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:33.160
and I don't know, man,
it doesn't have to be Oh well,

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00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.640
I think the problem. You're absolutely
right, and that's the problem because I

301
00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:41.599
think the excuse me, I think
the mentality is the thinking is, well,

302
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.799
if if he's losing his confidence,
then he didn't have it to begin

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00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.759
with, you know, because like
if looking at it from like a physical

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00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.440
point, like a physicality standpoint of
like you know, guys breaking into the

305
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:57.079
business and that like like like veron
Gania, for example, he would he

306
00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:00.920
would work guys so hard that he
only got the best of the best,

307
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.759
the guys who could who could take
it, you know, and he conditioned

308
00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:08.039
them that way. I worry that
like Fins or whoever, is now trying

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00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:12.319
to do it mentally with guys like
eventually, yes, if they don't have

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00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:18.240
the mental briefness then because it's because
unfortunately you do have someone like a CM

311
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:22.799
Punk, Whereas at no point could
you ever even as a viewer, not

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00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.759
just somebody on the inside, even
as a viewer, believe that cmpunk lost

313
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.559
his confidence. No matter what they
were doing to him, he still he

314
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:36.240
was, He knew who he was
and he believed it, and then because

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00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.039
that means a lot. That means
a lot when you're done with with all

316
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:41.400
the backs that you know what it's
like. I never I never thought of

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00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.039
it the way you said it.
But you're right on the money, right

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00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.400
on the money with that. Yes, yeah, you're absolutely because it's still

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00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:55.759
at alpha dog, alpha male mentality
and uh no, you're absolutely right.

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00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:02.039
Yeah yeah, so that yeah,
absolutely, dude. Well, invite you

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00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.759
to email the show with feedback or
questions or comments. That email address is

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00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:11.920
Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot

323
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.400
com. Also welcome your feedback on
Twitter. You can follow us on Twitter

324
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:19.440
at PW torch and follow me at
the Wade Keller. That's at PW Torch

325
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:30.720
and at the Wade Keller. I
want to bring up four wrestlers who have

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00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.200
main event at pay per views but
are teetering a little bit right now.

327
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.599
I don't know a teetering's word for
Cmpunk, but he's in this mix who

328
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.720
has a better but Sembunk's teetering just
in the sense of, you know,

329
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.559
he's on Twitter complaining about the travel
I'm hearing from people on the inside.

330
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:48.680
He's talking about, I'm over this
pro wrestling thing. I don't need any

331
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.319
more money to be happy the rest
of my life. It's hard on my

332
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.480
body. I hate the politics.
All that stuff so teetering in the sense

333
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.200
that you know, maybe management lose
it, tries to get as much as

334
00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.359
they can out of him till wrestling
at thirty and they start looking else for

335
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:06.119
self preservation. So Cempunk, Daniel, Bryan Seamous, and Wade Barrett all

336
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.359
main events of pay per views before
who ends up better off at the end

337
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:11.920
of the year, who's in a
strong position? And of those four,

338
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.240
name one or two who you think
are are in a weak position. I'll

339
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:19.920
start with you, Matt this time. Wow. I mean it's tough just

340
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:23.519
because I mean the obvious choice would
be I don't know, man, I'm

341
00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:30.559
worried about what they're Brian, because
there is so much money in that guy,

342
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:37.240
and I don't know if they realize
it yet. I know, Matt,

343
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.200
sorry to interrupt, but let me
ask about Brian. Do you think

344
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:45.079
Monday's angle gave you more or less
confidence or are you just more confused about

345
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.799
whether Triple hminsic man Kevin dounstepfan.
They see him as a money guy,

346
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.160
because I'm not quite sure anybody sure. I'm not sure how to interpret that

347
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:56.200
yet. But how about you when
you saw that angle on Monday, did

348
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:56.920
that make you think, Oh,
they're starting to get it with Brian,

349
00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:00.680
They're doing something big with him,
or all the just to try to get

350
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.680
him out of the way and get
fans off their backs, so he's on

351
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.000
a baby face anymore. I well, I like what happened on Monday.

352
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:10.200
I feel like it was miss timed. I feel like they missed an opportunity

353
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:15.839
because they kidnapped the guy and then
there was conflicting reports of Brian is still

354
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.640
missing, Brian was found in a
parking lot Brian, and then he was

355
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.400
just back on TV and everything was
fine, you know, whereas they're doing

356
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.039
what they should have done. Now
that being said, I don't know where

357
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:30.519
it's going to go. I mean, look at it this way. I

358
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.440
want to watch next week. I
want to see what's going to happen.

359
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:38.799
They piqued my interest, they piqued
my curiosity, and I think, especially

360
00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:42.880
for bray Wyatt, you have to
keep bray Wyatt strong. I mean,

361
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.839
I think what would have worked best
is if we had actually seen him him

362
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:53.880
being bray Wyatt brainwashed Luke Harper,
you know, like he met Brodie Lee

363
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:59.160
and then Brainwashington says, you're not
Brodie Lee, You're Luke Harper now,

364
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:03.160
and then brainwashes Eric Rowan. And
then maybe even if they if somebody else

365
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.680
maybe had put in a third or
or a diva, if they had brainwashed

366
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:17.079
you know whoever, and then you
you already saw the power of Bray White

367
00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:23.799
because at this point it's like he
had to brainwash Daniel Brian or maybe brainwashes

368
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:29.079
the wrong word, at least indoctrinate
him, get him into his little cult,

369
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:33.119
because then it's because if he doesn't, then you start questioning, well,

370
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.920
I guess Bray why it's all talked. You can't get anybody to follow

371
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:42.319
them, you know, because so
where they're at right now is the place

372
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:48.079
where they need to be. But
who's going to come out stronger because ultimately,

373
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.160
formally he's going to look foolish.
Either Brian is going to be brainwashed

374
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:55.240
and stay healed, which I don't
see being a smart way to go,

375
00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:00.920
or he's fooling bray Wyatt, which
kind of makes it brings Bray down a

376
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:04.960
little bit, or or the third
option would be that the wrong fans are

377
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.920
the ones that are able to pull
Brian back out of the abyss, you

378
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:15.200
know, and then everybody's still strong. Bray was able to brainwash him and

379
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.559
Brian was able to overcome it,
you know, right, And if if

380
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.000
the idea, if Monday's angle is
actually an abandoned abandoning the idea of Sena

381
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.559
Bray, whyat which was you know, an idea the last week or two.

382
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:29.640
If they're saying, no, let's
do let's do this Brian angle because

383
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:32.119
we don't have anything else for him. We need him in something. Daniel

384
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:33.440
Brian against Bray White, Let's do
a big angle. So that's one of

385
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.640
the top five matches that MADIA.
But they're going a different direction with Sina,

386
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.799
maybe related to Hogan or Brock or
who knows, because there's a talk

387
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:44.640
of Brock Lesnar not wanting to go
down and working with Undertaker on his match.

388
00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:47.359
It's just not something Brock wants to
take time out to do, so

389
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:48.839
they might have to shift to a
different opponent. But if that's the case,

390
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.079
Daniel Brian seems like the b plan, So then yeah, I don't.

391
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.000
It's it's there's a lot of moving
parts out there. But Matt,

392
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:57.480
back to the original question, I
guess because we straight off a little bit,

393
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:03.839
Barrett, Shamus, Punk, Brian, Uh can you can you hone

394
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:04.920
in on who you think will have
a good year? I know there's a

395
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:10.200
lot of variables and who will be
a bust. I don't think Sam Punk

396
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.640
can have a bad year at this
point in his career, so I think

397
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:17.599
he's at the top of the list. Brian. Brian is the X factor

398
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:22.640
because the fans see it, and
I know the workers see it. I

399
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:27.359
don't know if the powers that be
necessarily see it or can see past you

400
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:33.960
know, their own shortsightedness about body
type or whatever. So really, between

401
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:38.920
Wade and Seamus, I think Wade
is probably going to have the better year,

402
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:44.319
just because he's the better talker.
Like Wade, Beard is a tremendous

403
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:48.319
talker. The bad news Baired thing
has been pretty dead in the water.

404
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:55.920
Hasn't really grabbed me at all,
but it's just a misuse of a very

405
00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:59.880
very good talker. As far as
Seamus goes, I don't know, because

406
00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.240
I know that they're high on him, but I don't know where you go

407
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:06.119
with him, because it just feels
like he's just going to wind up being

408
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.200
you know, just a just a
mid card baby base, which is not

409
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:14.880
there's nothing wrong with that, but
it's the idea that he like, you

410
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:17.279
know, like Justin said, before, he was a world champion, he

411
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.279
was king of the ring. He's
you know, they stopped short of calling

412
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:25.240
him the next big thing, but
it's there is something missing. There has

413
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:29.119
always been just one thing missing with
Shamus. I've always felt that it should

414
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.640
just be you know, he shouldn't
be squeaky clean. He should be a

415
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:37.160
brawler, and he should be a
booze bag, and he should be getting

416
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.519
the bar from that side, you
know, just go for it. Make

417
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.279
him, you know, the drunken
Irish brawler, like go full go with

418
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:52.119
it. I just feel like they
keeps hesitating with Shamus. Justin same topic

419
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:56.960
to you, Now, Wow,
I agree with see him punking at the

420
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:00.720
top of that list, like he
said. I mean I was thinking of

421
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:04.240
the same things you know you were
thinking. Bro. I don't believe that

422
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:08.559
right now he could, you know, I think he's beyond anything that the

423
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:12.599
ww could possibly do to him.
From a pr standpoint. If there was

424
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:17.039
anything going on or whatever. I
think he's you know, I think he's

425
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:22.559
proven his metal Daniel Bryan. I
don't see him being all the way up

426
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.079
there. I think he still has
you know, there's a lot of uncertainty

427
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.599
of where he will lie now where
where Matt said Shamus. I believe it's

428
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.160
way bird only because I think Wade
Baird will have the worst year. Only

429
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:40.440
because I think, you know that
the thing he's doing is just been received

430
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:44.720
so poorly by by the fans and
by me. You know, I don't

431
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.839
I try to find the humor in
it, Like I listened intently, you

432
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:49.640
know, when the stand comes up
and stuff, and you know I'm trying

433
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:53.319
to get it. I just don't, you know, I don't know where

434
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:56.759
the humor is, you know,
I just don't. I don't know.

435
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:00.200
Maybe it's me let me cut you
off that Fridaecond, because you know what

436
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:06.279
I could work with Wade Barrett is
because this past Monday was the first time

437
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:10.920
that I ever liked it, even
just kind of just because it was so

438
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:17.960
preposterous, because that the podium just
kept rising and it kept getting higher and

439
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.559
higher, and then he had the
gavel and then he's just whacking the gavel.

440
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.599
It's like, if you have a
heel that thinks they know everything,

441
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.720
they have to be ludicrous, like
it has to like make it, taking

442
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.640
it over the over the top kind
of right. That was He's always serious.

443
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.920
Everything he says here means, but
it's sure you have to you have

444
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.559
to if he's going to be that
pompous, there has to be that,

445
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.480
you know, there has to be
that balance to it where it's ridiculous,

446
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:52.240
because like I feel like they don't
do enough of that with where heels are

447
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:57.160
also very funny. No, they
don't at all, unfortunately, But no,

448
00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:00.960
I see what you're saying with that. I mean, you know,

449
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.759
you know, yeah, it's you
know, I mean, I'm on the

450
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.240
fence with that. You know,
I'd hate to think the only reason I

451
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:14.640
say I protect Seamus from it is
because I know Turple h likes Seamus.

452
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.680
I know for a fact. She
told me personally. I saw I saw

453
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:22.279
Hunter two years going on three years
now at the Moheaton Sun Casino and we

454
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.720
talked about Seamus, and he was
a wicked high on him. You know.

455
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.920
So I mean, I mean that's
dated information. That's dated information,

456
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:35.960
But you know, I mean that
was then, and you know, I

457
00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:39.359
I but I am. I'm a
little against you know, I just wasn't

458
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:43.759
getting the way bear thing. But
uh, you know, I don't know.

459
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:52.599
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into
the developmental system and ultimately the brand

460
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:59.039
you see today. On the Torch
VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll

461
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:04.160
be taking a week look at this
page in NXT's early history. Join Kelly

462
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.640
Wells and me Tom Stout from p
WT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go

463
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:12.559
eight years back to the day to
track NXT's rising talents and why they did

464
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:22.000
or didn't work out exclusively for p
W Torch VIP members, wrestling Dude,

465
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:25.400
to me, all of the stuff
that's going on doesn't excite me. That's

466
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.200
my problem, like I and I
hate to admit it, and I will,

467
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.359
you know, especially for the DP
members of the church. But I

468
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.559
hate to admit it. But I
do this because I kind of have to.

469
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.759
Because if it wasn't for me being
in this business, I wouldn't watch.

470
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.480
That scares me, you know,
it scares me. I love,

471
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.200
I love wrestling, but I shouldn't
have to watch like you know, old

472
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:52.359
school VHS. Is that I have
of, you know, wrestling, because

473
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:58.640
you know, the stuff unraw makes
me mad or Mark Mark Mark. Mark

474
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:00.240
Madden brought that up on Tuesday,
like, why is the best wrestling that

475
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.519
I've seen in the last three months? The Best of the Mid South DVD

476
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:07.240
and the you know Jim Crock promotion
documentary and that kind of thing. Right,

477
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:12.440
But no, Yeah, he's right
though Wait didn't you know it too?

478
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:14.960
I mean, if we don't,
right, but when you do,

479
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:16.840
Cherry and I'm not, I'm not. I'm just making this point when you

480
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:23.000
cherry pick the absolute best of forty
years of history and then hold quote unfair

481
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:27.800
Mark, But I know what he's
saying, and I don't. I just

482
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:31.000
I you're right though you're no,
You're absolutely right, And I never looked

483
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:34.320
at it the way you just said
it. You're right, You're looking at

484
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.800
that. You know, it's almost
like looking at a sport and saying,

485
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:42.079
look, we're taking the all stars
and talking about the all stars. So

486
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:45.320
you know, but I just feel
like, as a as a whole,

487
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:53.320
I think the lack of of options
in wrestling viewing. You know that you

488
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:57.400
and I have talked about several times
on the live cast with T and A

489
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:01.800
being the only alternative quite for to
to w w EE. You know,

490
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:05.840
I think that hurts and I think, you know, ring of honor being

491
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:07.480
you know, it's it's what it
is, and nothing against the product,

492
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.719
but you know, I just think
that as fans, we really don't have

493
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:16.079
my I think we're more critical today
because there is so much less of doing

494
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:22.599
choices for us of the hardcore wrestling
fans that I think that's why we we

495
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:27.199
are so passionate that that's WWE product. You know, definitely have to work

496
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.880
a lot harder, Like I'm going
to be staying up all night tonight to

497
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:34.239
watch New Japan, you know,
and because that's the choice, Like,

498
00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:37.079
well, I got to see some
some awesome wrestlers and I need it.

499
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:42.280
Yeah, Okay, I got to
throw one more of these lists of four

500
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.199
wrestlers out there. I think these
are four wrestlers also in a somewhat similar

501
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:51.239
grouping as the previous two groups of
four, who breaks out from the situation

502
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:55.280
there and now and becomes a single
star that n McMahon is thinking about every

503
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:59.719
week, because that's a big matt
You can agree with me on that's what

504
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.519
or disagree, but isn't there's a
select group of people that vincick Man is

505
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:07.760
actually thinking about constantly, you know, like when you have to come up

506
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:09.920
with ideas for him. Which of
these four guys who are not there yet

507
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:15.039
get to that level this year,
Cody Rhodes, Antonio Czarro, Jack Sweger

508
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:23.559
or del Ziegler or none of the
above. Who's got the best chance?

509
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:30.920
I think and TONI might have the
best chance. Yeah, because he came

510
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:36.199
in, he was very hot.
Everybody was high on him. Then they

511
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:38.840
cooled out him for a little while. It was never made clear why,

512
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:45.599
and now it seems as though whatever
it is that they felt was lacking or

513
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:51.360
needed to change has changed and they
seem like they're a little higher on him

514
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:59.800
again. Yeah. Plus just I
mean, physically, he's just very impressive.

515
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.400
Yeah. The defeats of strength that
he can command in the in the

516
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:09.679
ring are just outstanding. Whether or
not he could break away from Dutch without

517
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:13.920
him being a mouthpiece, whether or
not they think he's strong enough on the

518
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:15.960
mic, or if they feel like, you know, I know, a

519
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:22.599
lots of times the concern is the
English clear enough for the average viewer to

520
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:28.000
understand. I don't know that's I
don't think that that's I don't think having

521
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:31.360
someone paired up with a manager is
a bad thing, whereas I think the

522
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:37.159
mentality sometimes can be that it's that
it brings the guy down somehow, which

523
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:43.440
which I just think is stupid.
But I think out of those four,

524
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:50.199
I don't know Cody might be.
Of the four, which one do I

525
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:52.119
want to have the best year?
The Dulph Ziggler. I mean, I

526
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:57.599
don't understand the twenty thirteen that Dulph
Ziggler has, and I really hope that

527
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:01.679
twenty fourteen just makes us forget about
it. Matt, do you think he's

528
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:06.280
got a little too billy gun on
us with the chewing gum and wiggling his

529
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:10.599
ass and and just like, I'm
what you just said is how I felt

530
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:14.639
about Dell Sigler a month or two
ago. And I'm just I'm starting to

531
00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:16.360
watch him and I'm starting to think
he's going the direction of Miz where there's

532
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:21.280
a level of obliviousness to what is
your role in how should you come across?

533
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:23.360
And I don't know that he has
a sense of that right now.

534
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:28.519
I just the little pink highlights in
his hair on Monday, chomping on the

535
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:31.079
gum, which I just think that's
not what babyfaces do. And the little

536
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:36.280
Chippendale dance wagging his ass at the
crowd. It's just like Billy Gunn didn't

537
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:38.239
get over as a top act.
And I'm not saying Dolph isn't better than

538
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:42.480
Billy gun in most ways, and
most ways he is, but he's started

539
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.119
to look more like him than the
next Rick Flair or the next you know,

540
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.599
Steve Austin or Sean Michaels was a
black guy most often compared to him.

541
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:52.599
Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know what would be best for

542
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:54.559
him right now. I don't know
if what he's doing right now is best

543
00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:01.119
for him. It's I don't even
know if it necessarily fits his character because

544
00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:06.199
he is he is supposed to be
what's supposed to be a show off show,

545
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:09.880
to be a you know, I'm
better than you. Yeah, I

546
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:15.639
don't know. I don't know because
I mean that because that attitude can work

547
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:22.320
as a baby face without turning off
you know fans, or particularly male fans.

548
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:28.039
You know. No, there was
a moment with dolphine color commentary and

549
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:30.480
he just talked this week in an
interview were last week in interview about wanting

550
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:34.480
to go you know that he thinks
when Westling's is over, he might do

551
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:37.480
some comedy. And he's got,
you know, pretty quick with There was

552
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.079
a moment where he sat down and
part of me thinks once to think it

553
00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:42.920
was Jim Ross that he was talking
to, but I don't remember who the

554
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:45.840
annunceers were for sure. But he
insulted one of the people on the at

555
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.199
the announced table and then and it
was just a blamt insult and he goes,

556
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.159
oh, but no offense, and
his delivery and his timing, I

557
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:55.639
was just spectacular. And that's when
I said, this is a guy who

558
00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:00.960
they shouldn't be, you know,
scripting too heavily, because they're something here

559
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:05.000
where there's something. There's a natural
wit, a quick wit to him,

560
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.599
and I want to see them take
advantage of it. And I'm not sure

561
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:10.079
that I'm seeing that right now.
And he just said on Monday again,

562
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:14.000
no offense, and that's what reminded
me of it. That was a moment

563
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:17.119
where I just thought it sometimes it's
just that little spark that turned that where

564
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:20.039
you go, oh, that's what
we got to do with this guy.

565
00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:23.119
And so while you were there and
Dolph was was there a couple of years

566
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:27.480
back, just over a year ago, did you see some Sparks and Dolph

567
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.679
that that would have caused you to
steer him in a certain direction different than

568
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:37.840
where he is now. Not necessarily, but you're one hundred percent right that

569
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:45.519
his comic comedic timing is very good. And he's definitely, you know,

570
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:50.639
taken like improv classes and he's and
he started doing you know, some open

571
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:52.199
mics here and there, and he
is kind of, you know, a

572
00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:57.719
little a little bit of an unsung
hero among a lot of the comedians I

573
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:01.440
know that are wrestling fans, done
some of our shows and stuff. And

574
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:07.400
I think that can only it can
only benefit him. And I think maybe

575
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:13.000
it goes back to what I was
saying before, because like heels are supposed

576
00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:15.719
to be funny, there's part of
that, like that part of that being

577
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:19.000
oh, but no offense, you
know that that wink to the camera of

578
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:21.719
like, well, we know that
he's being a complete jerk right now.

579
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:24.519
And it's hilarious, you know,
like just Buddy Rogers saying, you know,

580
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:28.960
to a nicer guy, it couldn't
have happened. It's it's it's that's

581
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:32.119
hysterical. But it's also heat.
And then he gets in the ring and

582
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:37.079
he and he works such a spectacular
match and he sells so damn hard.

583
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:44.719
It's it's hard for not I guess
there needs to be Maybe you're onto something.

584
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.079
Maybe that is where it is,
where he's instead of being like Bo

585
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:52.639
Dallas, where he's clearly a heel
but thinks he's a babyface. Maybe he's

586
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:58.280
clearly a babyface, but he thinks
he's a heel. Right, thanks for

587
00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:00.559
downloading today's show. Take it to
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588
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:05.000
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590
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:14.760
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591
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.519
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592
00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:22.039
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593
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.079
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594
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:30.239
two and enjoy all the benefits,
all the bonus content and the ad free

595
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:38.920
listening experience. PW torch dot com
slash go vi ip. Yeah, it's

596
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:44.239
no offense commer reminded me of h
I was ten years ago when Ellen did

597
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:45.239
a bit about you know, I
think it was you run into somebody in

598
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:50.719
the elevator and they go, oh, nice haircut, just kidding and where

599
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:52.719
you know you can't you can't just
kidding? Does any race what you just

600
00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:57.440
said? And you know that adult
did the no no comment thing. That

601
00:42:57.519 --> 00:42:59.760
was funny. I just had a
panic attack that I hadn't gotten to Andrew

602
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:00.440
and a w and then I forgot
that he left the show. But I

603
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:04.599
heard a chime, Justin, did
you drop off accidentally? Are you there?

604
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:07.679
I guess the non response is he's
gone, so he might come back.

605
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:13.360
Maybe something happened, yeah, Matt, so h Cody, oh now

606
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:15.800
just in fact, justin, let
me let me throw to you on that

607
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:17.159
question. Now that you time back
in, Cody, Cesarro, Sweger,

608
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:21.000
and Ziggler, your thoughts on who
will have the best year in the worst

609
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:30.159
year. I would like to say, God, that's that is tough,

610
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:36.039
but yeah, I mean my favorite
is my favorite is Ziggler for all the

611
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:38.440
reasons that you know we were talking
about before, you know, I got

612
00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:44.559
cut off. I think his work
is top notch. I'd say he's almost

613
00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:49.960
top five on the roster as far
as as takes work, you know,

614
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:57.280
physicality, whatever he's doing is amazing. But you know, reality, you

615
00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.679
know what, you know what surprises
me the most. I'll get to my

616
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:02.320
point real quick, Jack Swagger,
you know, because I always thought he

617
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:09.639
was the prototype for a WDB main
eventor good looking guy, big tall,

618
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:13.239
you know what I mean. He
had every good billion you know, he

619
00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:21.119
the wrestling ability. He's somebody that
I certainly thought over underachieved. So you

620
00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:25.159
know, it's it's still amazing to
me that he's you know, not broken

621
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:29.559
through the way I thought he would, you know, because really he has

622
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:32.400
all the you know, the recipe
for success in that ww is you know,

623
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:37.719
size, statu or looks, you
know, the u the shoe credibility

624
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:38.760
with the wrestling and stuff. Well, the moral, you know, I

625
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:43.480
always thought he the moral justin is
don't fall asleep in a book in a

626
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:47.119
production meeting in the midst of getting
a big push. Well, I mean

627
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:51.480
I'm not saying that's the only reason, but that was not a good you

628
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:54.000
know, No, I mean it
seems probably don't look for anything, you

629
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:57.559
know, I was. I had
never heard I believe it or not.

630
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:01.400
I never heard of that one.
I had never heard of. That's tremendous

631
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:08.920
first time hearing it. Great,
but uh, you know years yeah,

632
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:15.159
such your old life. But you
know, I don't know, man,

633
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:20.599
Look they're all I think all of
those guys could could break out right now,

634
00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:22.639
you know, And I don't think
any of those guys would do.

635
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:24.880
You know. That's a hell of
a question. And I don't see one

636
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:29.639
position more than the other. I
know, Dolf right now is not necessarily

637
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:32.199
in favor with the office, or
at least they're not booking him as as

638
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:37.800
such. Cizarro certainly is, you
know, like Matt said, you know,

639
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.800
he's certainly impressive in every way,
especially with his shows of strength.

640
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.280
And I think it's easy throwback to
the old uh you know, Antonio Rocco

641
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:50.320
days, back in the in the
old school w WWF days. And I

642
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.719
think Vince likes that. So I
mean, but you don't know, you

643
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:58.280
never know, man, It's it's
it's a crazy, you know, environment,

644
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:01.199
and you never know what's gonna catch
on or what they feel will catch

645
00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:05.440
on. So I mean, I'm
not even gonna throw my head and I'll

646
00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.480
just say, hell, I'll just
say Dolph Sigur only because I'm a fan

647
00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:14.000
of his. It should have enough
year, you know, he should.

648
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.639
If he does himselfing's wrong somewhere.
You know, maybe it's him, maybe

649
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:20.639
it's them, but you know,
I think ability wise, it should be

650
00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:25.400
him. Let's do one last big
picture question here on twenty thirteen. Biggest

651
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:30.199
lost opportunity of twenty thirteen? Is
there an angle of storyline a wrestler,

652
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:34.840
a push, an opportunity, and
try to give a little extra thought to

653
00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:36.800
the first six months of the year, because I know the last six is

654
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:39.760
more fresh in our minds. Kind
of think about WrestleMania and the height for

655
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:45.440
that. But is there anything that
jumps out as far and away the biggest

656
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:51.199
jaw dropping this opportunity by WWE or
a lost opportunity by a wrestler in twenty

657
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:54.119
thirteen. Matt, you first,
I don't know. I mean, it's

658
00:46:54.719 --> 00:47:00.719
definitely well, I think I'm saying
because I was twenty twelve, Yeah I

659
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:06.079
am. The first thing that came
to my head was Abraham Washington. Oh

660
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:10.480
okay, yeah, but that's that's
two years ago now. Yep. But

661
00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:14.440
I guess in that same vein,
I keep coming back to Damien Sandow.

662
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:17.440
You know, I guess I don't
know why he would have, but I

663
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:22.679
think he took his blue robe and
neckerchief and stuffed it into his money in

664
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:27.840
the bank briefcase when that briefcase van
is so is his gimmick. Yeah,

665
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:32.400
And Dolf Siegler also is another missed
opportunity. Think about how hot he was

666
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:38.960
at at Wressemania right afterwards and then
the concussion, and then he talked about

667
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:43.679
that in that interview just in the
last week or two, He's like,

668
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:45.559
I woke up by this pounding headache. And at first I was like,

669
00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:49.000
I got to get back. I
got to get back. I don't want

670
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.559
this opportunity of a career to go
to fly by and not get it again.

671
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:53.519
And then he goes, and then
the Haiks kept sticking around, and

672
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:57.000
I kept going, well, I
ever get through have a good night's sleep

673
00:47:57.039 --> 00:47:59.440
again? Will this headaches over going? He stopped worrying about his career,

674
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:02.519
and by the time he got back
it seemed management visc Man stopped worrying about

675
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:07.079
his career, and it seems unfair
and it doesn't make a lot of sense,

676
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:09.760
given how incredibly odd he was before
the concussion. Yeah, I mean,

677
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:14.320
I mean I keep coming up with
guys that I missed up with,

678
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:19.840
like Zach Ryder has been completely erased
from history the last year, you know.

679
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:23.360
I mean, it's it's there is
a place for a guy like that.

680
00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:29.400
There's place for like God, I
mean Tyson Kidd and Churt Hawk and

681
00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:35.199
the other incredible workers. Yeah,
you know, nothing but missed opportunities everywhere

682
00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:38.199
you look. Justin want jump out
topg WE. No, I mean,

683
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:43.559
I got my point to your question, but I agree there's so many missed

684
00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:46.280
opportunities with all those guys. I
couldn't agree with you more. I'm just

685
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:50.639
trying to jump in, but I
won't out of respect. You're absolutely on

686
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.000
the money with all of those There's
that. I think that's a big That's

687
00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:58.800
the bigger picture problem with the WWE
is there's very short sighted who they push.

688
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:04.159
But now the guy who I thought
was the biggest missed opportunity, and

689
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:07.079
I think a lot of people might
feel this way with the Daniel Bryan thing

690
00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:12.840
going into SummerSlam and forward. I
mean, at the end of twenty thirteen,

691
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:16.199
we had a couple. I have
a tour of three really lousy,

692
00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:22.119
lousy pay per views, you know, headlined by the chase of you know,

693
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:28.480
the Daniel Bryan Chase and pound for
pound and pound screwfound pound for pound.

694
00:49:28.519 --> 00:49:32.039
I mean, just pure entertainment value. I thought, regardless of his

695
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:36.519
size, I thought he was the
most entertaining guy for the past you know,

696
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:39.239
three four months, you know,
and and work wise, forget about

697
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:42.679
it. Jim Ross talks about it
all the time. I read Jim Ross's

698
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:46.079
blog and a lot of you know, my peers, we talk about it

699
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:52.199
amongst each other that it was a
huge missed opportunity and for whatever reason that

700
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:54.039
I'm not going to get into political
stuff whatever, I don't know because I'm

701
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:59.119
not there, but I think we
all thought that, you know, there

702
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:02.119
was a huge missed up oportunity,
and you know, I think, you

703
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:06.239
know, it might come back to
haunt him. I mean, I know

704
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:08.639
he's still very over, but they
really missed the boat. You know.

705
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:13.079
I thought they really really missed the
boat and they could have made a lot

706
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:15.679
of money with him. You know
what the problem I think is, it's

707
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.840
not that they don't think they can
make money with him, because obviously the

708
00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:23.719
fans know, and the fans are
telling Vince and Office and company that,

709
00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:27.920
hey, we could make money with
this guy. It's just I think it's

710
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:30.159
more ego, like, we don't
want to make money with this guy.

711
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:35.599
You don't fit our mold. It's
almost like a race, not race.

712
00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:38.679
It's like wrestling racism, if that's
is there could be such a term for

713
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:43.199
the WWE. It's like, you
don't fit our mold. You're not our

714
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:46.719
kind. We don't want you.
You're not six five, two ninety whatever.

715
00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:51.199
You're not blonde hair, blue eyed, big beak. You ain't coming

716
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:54.079
this way. You know what I'm
saying, Just what it is. If

717
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:58.239
you haven't read Run, if you
haven't read Bruce Mitchell column yet on the

718
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.159
on theF website, the newsletter,
as we check it out, because you

719
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:06.239
you will, I will. It's
it's very poignant as far as this discussion,

720
00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:09.119
Matt, Yeah, how about the
Danny Bryan uh missed opportunity where you

721
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:13.159
know, and maybe it'sn't come to
mind for you on your list because it's

722
00:51:13.159 --> 00:51:15.320
at the top of mind because well, the guy headline for pay per views

723
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:16.480
in a row. How can you
say it's a missed opportunity. But my

724
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:22.960
god, I mean you said it, right, I mean, like I

725
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:27.440
didn't think of him because he's at
least on TV and they're doing something with

726
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:31.119
him, even if it's the complete
wrong thing. But yeah, complete missed

727
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:37.079
opportunity. Yeah, I mean such
such potential. I mean like honestly,

728
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:44.320
from SummerSlam on he didn't necessarily have
to have the belt. Still, you

729
00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:47.519
know, there is something to be
said about Daniel Bryan chasing the belt,

730
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:53.800
but God, the way that they
handled it was not the correct way and

731
00:51:53.880 --> 00:52:00.280
did not it didn't well enhance anyone, right, right, right, But

732
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:04.800
this too, I mean they could
the ww could paint a picture, a

733
00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:08.599
perfect picture of anything, and they
could have really painted the picture with the

734
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:15.719
crowd behind him, of him being
the ultimate ultimate underdog who fought through all

735
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:19.920
the odds of the office of the
you know all these you know, and

736
00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:22.159
I mean, you know how it
is they have magic back there with their

737
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:25.239
production with you know, they could
have really made it. He could have

738
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:30.519
been the next you know, maybe
not the John Cena, but that guy

739
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.719
right underneath Sena and you know he's
still very popular, but you know it's

740
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:38.039
not. They took a lot of
wind out of the sale of I think

741
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:43.199
they told a lot of harm to
their potential moneymakers, which I don't get.

742
00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:45.880
It's like they should be thinking,
hell, let's just make money,

743
00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:50.119
you know, and I think a
lot of times they don't. You know,

744
00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:58.639
they're not shirking themselves very much though. Yeah, there's no reason why

745
00:52:58.639 --> 00:53:05.400
they ever yeah right right, yeah, yep, yep. And to me,

746
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:09.360
maybe a better version of Diamond Dallas
page in WW, where there's this

747
00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:13.320
enormous you know, Karen Sullivan as
a booker built up the heels, and

748
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:16.000
you had the nWo, and you
had just such a strong heel group of

749
00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:21.519
heels, and and WW desperately needed
babyfaces. And Sting was so inactive in

750
00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:23.440
the rafters, and le Sluger didn't
really click, and they were just and

751
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:27.519
Goldbert eventually came along, but people
don't really think about it all that much.

752
00:53:27.519 --> 00:53:30.760
But it was way after Nitro's peak
that no Goldberg showed up. Roy

753
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:34.559
had already taken over ratings by the
time Goldberg, so DDP was rising at

754
00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:38.760
the time, Steve Austin was with
that kind of common man unexpected rise and

755
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:43.519
and DDP was a very valuable person
in the Mony Night War during Nitro's peak

756
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:46.519
ratings to be the workhorse while you
had Sting in the rafters. And so

757
00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:51.199
it's not a perfect analogy, but
Daniel Bryn could have been that workhorse,

758
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:54.559
People's champion, people's choice, and
the odds are against him all the time,

759
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:59.079
and he keeps winning. And there's
I'm sure a lot of sports analogies

760
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:01.920
out there, probably specially in the
NBA, where there's that that team that

761
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:06.599
wins but doesn't have a single star. It's the ensemble cast kind of what

762
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:09.559
Denver was going to be last year
and didn't turn into that. And and

763
00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:13.760
Danny Brian could have been that guy. And Sina doesn't need the title,

764
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:17.360
and and and can be the Sting, the icon, the guy who just

765
00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:22.880
is the top star. Well,
Daniel Bride's Orcros And yes it doesn't fit

766
00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:25.360
mold, but you know, and
that's the theme of Bruce's column is who

767
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:28.480
the hell do the fans thinks?
They are trying to decide who they want

768
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:34.840
to pay to see and and tri
relation basic man know this business and they

769
00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:37.400
know what we'll work with the corporate
sponsors. And I'm ruining Bruce's calumn a

770
00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:38.920
little bit, but but he's like, you know, you fans, you're

771
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:42.599
so upset. You know, who
are you to say who you want to

772
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:45.519
see in main events? Vincentriple Ah, you know this business. Shut the

773
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:47.360
hell up and enjoy what you're fed. And and that's I think the feeling

774
00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:50.960
people got the last four months.
I think that's part of the frustration you've

775
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:55.159
expressed, PJ and in watching the
product. And I just sure Daniel Bryan

776
00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:59.239
that what happened with him at Summers
Fine when they pin John scene with the

777
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:02.119
hind knee and those three minutes before
people woke up from the good dream that

778
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:07.719
they had and realized they were right
back in you know, reality. That

779
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:08.880
was the peak of Daniel Brian's career, and it shouldn't have been. It

780
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:14.440
should have been the beginning of this
unexpected let's Vincent man says, let's change

781
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:16.840
all plans, let's throw at all
paradigms, the same way he did with

782
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:22.320
Steve Buston after Austin three sixteen at
King of the Ring. Austin wasn't Lex

783
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:25.480
Schluger. He wasn't a tall,
long blonde hair, smiling hero babyface.

784
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:29.239
He was the anti hero with a
baldhead from the South. In a redneck.

785
00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:31.039
But Vin saw somebody get hot and
went with it, and he made

786
00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:35.079
more money in three years four years
than he would have. And they missed

787
00:55:35.079 --> 00:55:37.039
that with Daniel Brian, and I
just think that is the missed opportunity of

788
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:42.199
the year because of the scalable popularity
the win at behind Brian sales that the

789
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:47.840
fans had given him. Searching for
more great pro wrestling talk, then join

790
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:52.280
me Jason Powell, host of the
three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. Each

791
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:55.159
week, he'll hear the latest news
and analysis for me and my team at

792
00:55:55.159 --> 00:55:59.880
Pro Wrestling Dotted, along with other
pro wrestling media members. Plus, the

793
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:04.960
Wrestling Boom podcast features long form interviews
with notable names in the pro wrestling industry.

794
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:08.159
Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps,

795
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:13.440
or visit us directly at PW boom
dot com. Once again, that's

796
00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:22.760
PW boom dot com. That will
be Vince's demise. Unfortunately, this will

797
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:30.840
be Vince's demise is the inability to
notice the hot hand because Vince McMahon.

798
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:35.960
I have so much respect for Vince, for his whole family. I've known

799
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:40.000
Stephanie McMahon since she was sixteen,
I have doc I could tell you stories

800
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:45.119
about Stephanie at sixteen. Dude,
I know the family in shape. Well

801
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:49.800
anyways, all right, go ahead, you don't want to know, but

802
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:52.800
anyways, no, seriously, I
do. I'm not kidding. I do

803
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:58.159
know the family, and I think
the inability and the ego to go,

804
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:01.519
you know, everything is bigger.
The thing is bigger than the wwe were

805
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:07.199
see back then, they were fighting
to stay relevant with w c W.

806
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:10.880
It was a fight. We battled
to stay alive in our lives, whether

807
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:16.679
it's professionally personally, but with social
whatever do do we We fight to stay

808
00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:23.760
alive, stay relevant. And I
think when the competition disappeared that really it's

809
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:29.239
like, oh, we run,
they are the show. But the Evince

810
00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:31.320
got what he wanted, you know. I mean, I know TNA is

811
00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:35.400
still along, you know, coming
along whatever, they're doing what they do.

812
00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:39.280
But the that competitive edge of we
got to go with what's hot,

813
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:43.679
we got to go with Now they're
just going with what they you know,

814
00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:45.159
they know they're going to get their
by rates, they know they're going to

815
00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:49.679
get their audience. They know that
this many people will spend their you know,

816
00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:52.320
their money on the product. They
know you know, it doesn't matter,

817
00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:57.400
so they pick who they need or
want. But back then it was

818
00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:00.800
back then it was who it's going
to be, who's going to draw no

819
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:05.719
issue, justin, let me,
let me jump in, because what you

820
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:07.440
just said, I don't want to
get too far away from that point,

821
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:10.000
and I want to expand on it. They now are in a mode where

822
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.960
the decisions they make are based on
who will give us the least number of

823
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:19.760
headaches and who will look at literally, And this is what was so upsetting

824
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:22.400
about the authority storyline is I knew
when the wrestlers stood on that stage in

825
00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:25.920
Triple H and Stephanie said, don't
don't even twitch your nose or you're fired.

826
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:31.400
It is how wrestlers are seeing behind
the scenes as you are contractors working

827
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:36.239
for a corporation that is bigger than
the industry, and you're interchangeable except for

828
00:58:36.320 --> 00:58:42.360
John Cena and local message, and
the message also is we want people,

829
00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:45.000
and it goes to the Jack Swager
comment too. We want people who won't

830
00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:49.360
give us headaches and who don't show
any level of disrespect or immaturity or lack

831
00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:53.280
of appreciation and really a lack of
humility to the royal McMahon family and the

832
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:55.920
empire that we have built, and
the sheer privilege it is that you were

833
00:58:55.920 --> 00:59:00.000
working for us, and and and
the decisions that are made are not what

834
00:59:00.039 --> 00:59:02.199
will draw the most fans next month, because if that was the case,

835
00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:07.039
Daniel Brian would have been treated very
differently this fall. The decisions are sure,

836
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:09.679
how can we wake up and have
the least number of Ultimate Warrior style

837
00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:14.119
head cases that we have to deal
with. Because we're so rich and we're

838
00:59:14.119 --> 00:59:17.000
going to be so profitable with this
big TV deal and this network, we

839
00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:21.119
don't actually have to sell tickets and
promote anything anymore. We just need to

840
00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:22.760
present a product and we want our
lives to go nice and smoothly. So,

841
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:25.760
Matt, you were there just a
little over a year ago, tell

842
00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:30.760
me, does that picture that I
painted gel it all with where you think

843
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:34.440
things have gone in the last year
or two or what? Do you think?

844
00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:38.079
You're probably onto something? I mean, when you need the analogy of

845
00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:44.280
Vince doesn't recognize he's got a hot
hand. It suddenly made me think of

846
00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:50.039
comparing it to poker, where it
is like he's been dealt, you know,

847
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:54.199
a royal slush. And then that
somehow makes him angry because he's like,

848
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:57.920
I don't want it to just land
in my hand. I want to

849
00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:00.599
And then he throws his cards down
because he wants to draw the cards himself.

850
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:04.840
He wants to do it. He
doesn't want it to just be organic

851
01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:12.199
and easy. There is something to
that, because you know the expression is

852
01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:16.519
true when they say necessity is the
mother of invention. They had no he

853
01:00:16.599 --> 01:00:22.039
had no choice but to go with
Steve Austin because that's what made sense of

854
01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:27.119
the time. It's I don't know, man, he does need that competition

855
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:34.079
or or at least something competition.
It's competition, competition, that's what it

856
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:37.480
is. And he and he needs
a TV network not willing to double the

857
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:44.079
money for a product that doesn't need
to be hot or get hot to to

858
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.480
draw their audience. And if PG
said one thing that they just they're going

859
01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:50.760
to get their fans no matter what. I don't agree with that, and

860
01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:52.519
I don't agree with the way that
I at least interpreted the way you said

861
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:57.559
it, because I think the buy
rates of this fall are as low as

862
01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:00.199
they are in the Survivor series,
did the lowest by rate it's done four

863
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:04.400
years. For a reason I don't
think pay per view as a as a

864
01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:08.239
category is dead or dying. I've
done this in my business where you think,

865
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:12.000
well, like you know, the
nine hundred business in the nineties,

866
01:01:12.039 --> 01:01:13.920
I thought, oh, that's going
away. The Internet's the way, sure,

867
01:01:14.119 --> 01:01:15.440
And I kind of moved away from
a nine hunter line business a little

868
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:17.880
soon because not everybody who's on the
internet and there were still people who wanted

869
01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:22.199
those daily updates after big news broke, and I kind of moved on to

870
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:23.679
the Internet a little too soon and
away from the nine hundred line too soon

871
01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:27.440
because it was a new shiny toy
to play with. And I mean,

872
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:30.320
it's a smaller scale, it's a
different thing. But I think they look

873
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:32.320
at pay per view and go,
well, why are we working so hard

874
01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:37.800
to promote and try to beg fans
to buy things from us when we're the

875
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:43.719
man's we're WWE and these networks,
these conglomerates via Common, Disney and on

876
01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:46.639
and on are coming to us going
please save our network. We're going to

877
01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:50.440
hand you all this money. Who
cares what the ratings are, just we

878
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:52.960
know you're going to deliver five million
people a week for us. And I

879
01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:57.800
think there's like this kind of.
I don't. There's this sense that they're

880
01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:00.840
kings on the hill and we won't. We don't. We want things a

881
01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:04.440
certain way. We're not going to
beg people to give us money anymore,

882
01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:07.840
and we're just going to do things
our way and we'll be fine without it.

883
01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.960
I think the very right with that
way. Yeah, you're here,

884
01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:14.480
or you're here or year spot on. I couldn't. I couldn't agree with

885
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:16.920
that more. You No, you're
absolutely right, and but that I think,

886
01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:22.760
uh, you know who suffers in
all this the sand the true fan,

887
01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:30.679
and I think they they don't care
who they offend if they're you know,

888
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:35.000
curists of the business or I mean, you know, Vince likes to

889
01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:37.159
say, oh, you know,
my father and the WWW after the rich

890
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:42.840
traditions, there's no care or that
there. It's a corporate environment. It's

891
01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:47.280
about making the most money. They
know they've positioned themselves to you know,

892
01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:52.760
they've monopolized the industry of sports entertainment
as they coined it, and it is

893
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:55.880
what it is, and we're just
gonna all have to, you know,

894
01:02:55.920 --> 01:03:00.239
we either take it or we you
know, as an audience stop watching,

895
01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:05.880
which you know that's not gonna happen
too, so we're just left with we're

896
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:09.760
just left with what it is,
or or some you know, some rebel

897
01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:13.840
guys gonna come up and give us
something we all want, which I don't

898
01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:16.039
see happening to either. I think
I wonder if they're getting to the point

899
01:03:16.039 --> 01:03:20.400
where almost daring people not to watch, in the sense of we're going to

900
01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:22.599
do things our way and we're going
to get a guarantee two three year deal

901
01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:25.800
that's double trip of what we're used
to. We'll launch this network where people

902
01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:29.400
are just kind of it's ruling over
each month, you know, just you

903
01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:31.239
sign up, it's a lot of
work to unsign up. And as long

904
01:03:31.239 --> 01:03:34.920
as we give them something, they're
probably gonna stick around. And there's this

905
01:03:35.079 --> 01:03:37.920
taking the viewers and the customers for
granted, and you know what, they

906
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:43.679
can probably ride that momentum from just
the inertsihave of the fan base and the

907
01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:45.800
people who are loyal to the brand. They can probably ride that for a

908
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:51.159
couple of years before there's you know, tragic drop offs. But they can't

909
01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:53.559
get too complacent. They can't take
people too for granted, or it will

910
01:03:53.599 --> 01:03:57.840
hurt. And we could be talking
in twenty seventeen, that necessity is the

911
01:03:57.880 --> 01:04:01.079
mother of invention again, because they're
in deep come twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen,

912
01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:03.719
and that that's what I worry about. If that level of arrogance and

913
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:09.559
complacency is wanting comfort, is going
to dry fans away who right now can't

914
01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:16.639
imagine going a week without watching the
product. I mention, I think go

915
01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:21.519
ahead Metal. All say is because
the nature of it being a corporation and

916
01:04:21.559 --> 01:04:28.760
the nature of it being a publicly
traded company, they're they are not beholden

917
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:31.119
to the fans or the audience.
Yeah, they're beholden to stockholders. And

918
01:04:31.159 --> 01:04:36.559
that is a great pointep And so
it doesn't it literally doesn't matter to them

919
01:04:38.119 --> 01:04:44.199
what the product is. All they're
focused on is business deals and generating cash.

920
01:04:44.239 --> 01:04:47.880
They're focused on this network supposedly being
a lot of cash. Their new

921
01:04:47.920 --> 01:04:51.000
TV deals are going to be a
lot of cash. That is all they're

922
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:55.840
thinking about. They don't give a
shy don't They don't give a darn about

923
01:04:57.039 --> 01:05:01.239
you, me them, Daniel Bryan, any of us up. Give yourself

924
01:05:01.239 --> 01:05:04.039
a reason to look forward to go
into the mailbox each week with a PW.

925
01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:11.360
Torch neewsletter paper copy subscription details at
PW torch dot com slash paper Copy.

926
01:05:11.559 --> 01:05:15.679
It's twelve pages every week packed with
my TV reports along with exclusive features

927
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:17.760
such as my cover story on the
top story of the week, our pay

928
01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:23.519
per view roundtable reviews from the Torch
staff, exclusive feature length columns from Greg

929
01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:27.880
Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan, and Zach Haydorn,

930
01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:31.679
Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news, and more. PW torch dot com

931
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:36.719
slash paper Copy. Take a break
from screen time and settle in every week

932
01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:42.559
with a megadosu wrestling news and analysis
with a Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter paper copy

933
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:45.679
edition in the year twenty twenty two. You can get a full year of

934
01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:50.039
home delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight week

935
01:05:50.079 --> 01:06:00.920
trial subscription PW torch dot com slash
paper Copy. And I don't even know

936
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:05.000
if they it even crosses their mind
how out of whack that is with what

937
01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:09.559
got them to the dance, you
know, I mean, it's so not

938
01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:12.400
what got them to the point that
they're at into a band. It's like,

939
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:15.239
you know what, and they are
they're worried about the quarterly returns and

940
01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:18.079
they're worried about the annual expectations and
meeting expectations, you know, but they're

941
01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:23.760
not gonna lot. Why I wonder
why Shane McMahon's not with the company.

942
01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:26.800
I think that has a lot to
do with what we're talking about, because

943
01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:30.480
I know Shane personally, and I've
had conversations with Shane after he's left to

944
01:06:30.639 --> 01:06:34.440
WWE, and I think that had
a lot to do with it. Yeah,

945
01:06:34.559 --> 01:06:40.719
I think we all underestimate what,
you know, what we all think

946
01:06:40.760 --> 01:06:45.440
the ww should be with this rich
traditions and heritage, and quite frankly,

947
01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:50.320
they are the ones responsible for carrying
on the pro wrestling tradition right now.

948
01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:56.199
Really, you know, they're the
only representatives you know. And I think

949
01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:00.519
you know, it's it's it's it's
become a complete not that it shouldn't be.

950
01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:03.960
Look, I'm not against capitalism and
making the most money, but it's

951
01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:08.960
it's such a sellout for like,
look, i mean, you know how

952
01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:15.000
much how much is you know,
they're so the McMahon family is so well

953
01:07:15.079 --> 01:07:18.400
off that it's just become Look,
they if they can get away from pro

954
01:07:18.440 --> 01:07:24.199
wrestling completely, they would, if
they can call it another kind of entertainment,

955
01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:29.800
take the ring out of you know, the arenas and just have whatever

956
01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:32.039
it is they do that sports entertainment, you know, that enter, you

957
01:07:32.039 --> 01:07:35.239
know, those those skits or whatever
they would. You know, it's just,

958
01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:42.400
you know, there's no care for
what we I think as as fans,

959
01:07:42.480 --> 01:07:47.320
reporters and analysts, you know,
analysts or whatever care about you know.

960
01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:51.320
And I'd love to big thing.
I'd love to have Steve Austen and

961
01:07:51.320 --> 01:07:54.960
and it's fresh in my mind because
I transcribed it for this week's Newthwatter,

962
01:07:55.039 --> 01:07:57.719
part five of the interview I did
with him in November, and he's PJ.

963
01:07:57.840 --> 01:07:59.719
He was just saying what you're saying. It's like, yeah, you

964
01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:02.360
think endorsing what you're saying. He's
like, people tune into wrestling to stee

965
01:08:02.360 --> 01:08:06.280
wrestling matches and everything else. There
are pieces, little pieces of promos and

966
01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:10.199
skits and videos you need to promote
it, but it all goes back to

967
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:13.920
wrestling. When you lose sight of
that, the whole thing unravels and falls

968
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:19.920
apart. Steve puts it really well, and I'd be curious if Steve Austin

969
01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:26.399
and let's just graduate Steve Austin and
Shane McMahon were the people in great power

970
01:08:26.399 --> 01:08:30.600
in WWE instead of Vince, Shane
and or Vince, Stephanie and Hunter.

971
01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:33.479
You know when say Jim Ross is
in that inner circle too still with Steve

972
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:38.199
and and Shane. How would things
be different and how would things be better?

973
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:40.960
You know who knows? It's just
speculation, But I know when I

974
01:08:40.960 --> 01:08:43.319
talk, when I interview Steve or
when I listen to his podcast, I'm

975
01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:46.880
nodding constantly along with him, and
I really think he's fond of what works

976
01:08:46.920 --> 01:08:49.760
in wrestling. And that chip on
his shoulder isn't there That seems to be

977
01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:53.640
there with Vince, seems to be
there with Steph and Triple A just kind

978
01:08:53.680 --> 01:08:57.560
of worked into agreeing with on a
necessity. Perhaps Absolutely No, You're absolutely

979
01:08:57.640 --> 01:09:00.039
right. I mean, look,
Steve is. I mean, I've known

980
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:03.520
him for very many years before.
Why I was friends with Steve when he

981
01:09:03.600 --> 01:09:08.840
was in WCW team was Brian Pillman. I mean, I've done road trips

982
01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:15.840
with Steve and he is He's extremely
intelligent. He is he is one of,

983
01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:18.920
if not the greatest draw in our
business. I don't know the figures,

984
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:23.560
but I just know what I know, and he knows what works and

985
01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:29.359
what doesn't. And I totally agree, and I think Shane had you know,

986
01:09:29.439 --> 01:09:31.560
he didn't. I know that Shane
didn't agree with a lot of the

987
01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:36.439
stuff that was going on in the
WWE, And you know, I just

988
01:09:36.520 --> 01:09:42.319
think that, especially Jim Ross as
well, he's a wrestling purist. What

989
01:09:42.720 --> 01:09:46.079
goes on between you know, when
the lights are shining on that ring,

990
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:50.840
that's what matters. It is still
the pro wrestling. It's still the fight

991
01:09:50.960 --> 01:09:55.720
game. I mean, even though
it might be scripted, it is still

992
01:09:55.760 --> 01:10:00.720
an offshoot of the fight business.
And I think that's what draws as fans,

993
01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:03.439
that's what draws interests, and that's
what draws money. And when we

994
01:10:03.479 --> 01:10:08.159
get look, if we want to
see bad acting, we'll watch some Ardashians,

995
01:10:09.039 --> 01:10:12.760
or we'll watch some shitty some shitty
reality show on MTV, v H

996
01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:15.760
one, whatever, we'll watch them
mobwise, you know, we want to

997
01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:19.760
see pro wrestling. We know what
it is, we all accept what it

998
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:26.600
is. But I think that's the
difference in pro wrestling. Beach has always

999
01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:30.840
had it's had bad acting, but
bad act I shouldn't say it's always had

1000
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:35.319
bad actions. What wrestling had were
wrestlers who were in who were who were

1001
01:10:35.479 --> 01:10:40.479
featured on television because when they spoke, there was a sense that they were

1002
01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:45.319
at their core who they were presenting
themselves on television as it was absolutely you

1003
01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:46.079
know, lines written for them by
somebody else, that kind of thing.

1004
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:49.079
And it doesn't mean that there weren't
people helping them with promos or help you

1005
01:10:49.119 --> 01:10:51.479
know, giving them tips, or
that Greg Ganya, who was you know

1006
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:55.600
was when he was on the live
cast a couple of years back, talked

1007
01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:59.840
about you know that that the aw
A was a great interview territory in late

1008
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:02.000
the early eighties were which was the
wrestling that I cut my teeth on or

1009
01:11:02.199 --> 01:11:06.600
first saw and first appreciated. And
it's not that the wrestlers weren't coached,

1010
01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:10.039
it's not that they weren't helped,
it's not that they weren't given things to

1011
01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:14.920
talk about. But the Greg Ghani
and Virgania and that and Wally Carver and

1012
01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:19.279
that ilk they let the characters ultimately
be who they were at their core.

1013
01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:25.560
And and I think wrestling is at
its best when fans look at a restaurant

1014
01:11:25.560 --> 01:11:29.039
on television and go, I bet
this guy was like this before he got

1015
01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:30.279
into wrestling, And I bet he
be liked this when he's out of it,

1016
01:11:30.319 --> 01:11:33.239
and you know who you can say
that about Steve Auston, you know,

1017
01:11:33.279 --> 01:11:35.680
and you can come up with other
successful characters. But in the rock

1018
01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:40.640
too, they were who they on
wrestling. They used to be that person

1019
01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:43.399
or they were that person before wrestling, and they'll still be that person after

1020
01:11:43.479 --> 01:11:46.079
wrestling, and that's where it works
the best. Now, some people are

1021
01:11:46.199 --> 01:11:50.199
naturally themselves and they aren't superstars,
so you just have to accept that.

1022
01:11:50.439 --> 01:11:53.239
But what you don't want to do
is get in the way of those who

1023
01:11:53.239 --> 01:11:55.560
are superstars, and you got to
look for them and let them be themselves.

1024
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:58.439
Matt bj and I've gone back and
forth a lot on this your final

1025
01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:00.880
thoughts on this topic, and I
have one small subject to wrap up on.

1026
01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:10.520
Well, good man, I don't
know. I mean, it's it's

1027
01:12:10.560 --> 01:12:15.960
no different than stand up comedy,
whereas you can tell if the person doesn't

1028
01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:23.000
believe what they're saying. Yes,
And because it's that is all entertainment is,

1029
01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:29.000
because it's you're not entertaining the person, You're making a connection, and

1030
01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:31.960
that's what people want to see,
and that's what's lacking, you know,

1031
01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:36.680
they want you know, they believe
in John Cena, you know, or

1032
01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:41.560
they believe in whoever they believe God, did I believe in Stone called Steve

1033
01:12:41.600 --> 01:12:45.319
Austin, Oh my gosh. And
Vince McMahon for that matter. Vince McMahon's

1034
01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:53.119
on screen character was believable and entertaining, and it spoke to you in a

1035
01:12:53.159 --> 01:13:00.199
way that, Gosh, there's just
isn't something consistently on Monday Night roars back

1036
01:13:00.319 --> 01:13:02.840
down that is speaking to me in
the way that that stuff did you know?

1037
01:13:03.359 --> 01:13:06.479
I don't know. No, I
think that's true when I watch stand

1038
01:13:06.520 --> 01:13:12.439
up comedians who I think wrote jokes
to be funny so that they could fill

1039
01:13:12.680 --> 01:13:16.760
fifty minutes. It's not the same
thing as a comedian who I think is

1040
01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:21.560
simply sharing in a way that I'm
not capable of or talented enough, sharing

1041
01:13:23.239 --> 01:13:31.520
pend up observations of irony and frustration
and silliness that they've just observed through genuinely

1042
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:36.359
just living an interesting life or being
around interesting situations. And wrestlers. I

1043
01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:41.119
believe I get most into wrestlers when
I think at the core, what they

1044
01:13:41.159 --> 01:13:43.520
want to do is beat some people
up and win some titles and make some

1045
01:13:43.600 --> 01:13:45.279
money, and they found a place
to do it. I don't want to

1046
01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:49.199
watch wrestlers who know exactly where to
stand on stage and don't dare defy the

1047
01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:53.600
authority. That at its core is
not what makes me want to watch wrestlers.

1048
01:13:54.439 --> 01:13:59.840
I mean, it's at no point, at any point in his career

1049
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:03.720
did Macho Man Randy Savage sat out
the camera. Okay, yep, yep.

1050
01:14:04.359 --> 01:14:11.079
He would do interviews with his back
completely to the lens. And you

1051
01:14:11.119 --> 01:14:15.479
know why because he was the mancho
Man, Randy Sabbath and it made sense.

1052
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:26.199
Yep. Every Sunday night, catch
Wrestling Night in America on PW Torchdailycast

1053
01:14:26.239 --> 01:14:30.199
dot Com, hosted by me PW
Torch calumnist Greg Parks. Each week,

1054
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:32.159
I'll welcome a co host from the
Torch family to discuss the big shows in

1055
01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:35.920
pro wrestling, taking your calls and
emails. You can listen live most week's

1056
01:14:35.960 --> 01:14:41.079
beginning at eight pm Eastern on Sunday
nights with a WWE or Impact pay per

1057
01:14:41.159 --> 01:14:43.560
view, we go on the air. At the conclusion of that pay per

1058
01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:45.920
view, you can listen live,
but of course, the full show is

1059
01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:50.000
available for download on demand anytime shortly
after it airs. Visit PW Torchdailycast dot

1060
01:14:50.039 --> 01:14:54.359
Com and click the live stream link
to find the next scheduled live show link.

1061
01:14:54.439 --> 01:14:58.840
Search PW Torch and Apple Podcasts or
your podcast app to subscribe Wrestling Night

1062
01:14:58.840 --> 01:15:15.760
in America every Sunday, tw torchdailycast
dot Com. Yeah. When I watched

1063
01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:20.600
The Crusher when the Crush is off
camera, all I felt is someone told

1064
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:25.039
Crusher, who is being the Crusher
off camera? Oh, take six steps

1065
01:15:25.079 --> 01:15:28.199
to the left, there's a camera
there and be yourself. And he oh,

1066
01:15:28.239 --> 01:15:30.760
here's a camera or where was I? Oh? Yeah, I'm gonna

1067
01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:32.079
beat this guy up on Sunday,
and I'm going to do this after the

1068
01:15:32.119 --> 01:15:34.840
matches. It's like you just got
the feeling that if a camera wasn't there,

1069
01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:39.119
he'd have been telling three people off
camera the same thing. You.

1070
01:15:39.119 --> 01:15:42.439
You want that sense that they're not
just stepping into rehearse lines in order to

1071
01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:46.800
sell tickets or please their boss.
Thank you, thank you? Yeah,

1072
01:15:46.880 --> 01:15:50.840
yeah, very good. Okay,
my last MOLL topic. I feel we've

1073
01:15:50.840 --> 01:15:55.319
said the default. The only other
alternative is and we've said multiple timeser isn't

1074
01:15:55.319 --> 01:15:58.479
an alternative, but TNA. When
they're watched by over a million people every

1075
01:15:58.479 --> 01:16:01.600
week on a second tier cable network
with a major cable network with a major

1076
01:16:01.600 --> 01:16:05.359
conglomerate. There's people who watch them, there's people listening to us who are

1077
01:16:05.399 --> 01:16:10.159
like, what about TNA. So
my prediction for two four or my last

1078
01:16:10.159 --> 01:16:15.600
prediction to call I've been too long
show, my last prediction for you guys

1079
01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:19.720
to make is will we be talking
about TNA as more of a factor or

1080
01:16:19.880 --> 01:16:24.359
less of a factor at the end
of twenty fourteen. And I'll start with

1081
01:16:24.399 --> 01:16:28.720
you, Matt. The only way
we'll be talking about them being a factor

1082
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:33.760
is if ownership changes hands, and
I think that's probably very likely to happen

1083
01:16:34.079 --> 01:16:41.439
in the next twelve months, if
not sooner, I don't know. I

1084
01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:49.000
don't know. It is the WWE
is so clearly set in their ways that

1085
01:16:49.439 --> 01:16:56.359
the playing field is so wide open
for somebody else to come in and just

1086
01:16:56.439 --> 01:16:59.960
present it just slightly different. Because
let me tell you something, Johnny Carson

1087
01:17:00.720 --> 01:17:05.600
was the king, the king for
thirty years until our Sineo Hall showed up

1088
01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:09.880
and said, you know what,
I don't think I can get Johnny Carson's

1089
01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:15.079
audience, but I can get their
kids. Yep. And that's all that

1090
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:18.600
they have to do because it and
it's true if you look at WWE's demographic.

1091
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:26.079
It's not guys our age, it's
guys over fifty and and older who

1092
01:17:26.119 --> 01:17:30.600
were consistently watching, you know,
yeap. So there's a huge, huge

1093
01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:36.199
audience who whether they because all they
know is WWE. They don't know how

1094
01:17:36.279 --> 01:17:40.239
much they would like pro wrestlers.
I know how. I say that all

1095
01:17:40.279 --> 01:17:44.159
the time. Yep. There's two
at least two generations of fans post Monday

1096
01:17:44.199 --> 01:17:48.279
Night War era especially who just have
no idea what it's like when a pro

1097
01:17:48.319 --> 01:17:54.439
wrestling show it's about pro wrestlers fighting
other pro wrestlers to win the most important

1098
01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:58.960
thing in the entire universe, which
is a championship. If you build a

1099
01:17:58.960 --> 01:18:02.279
show around that, everything circulates around
that, that is an amazing genre to

1100
01:18:02.439 --> 01:18:08.279
enjoy with because people love a fight. And when you when you, when

1101
01:18:08.319 --> 01:18:13.960
you're able to to dramatize in control, how exciting a fight is you you

1102
01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:16.199
and you put it in that context
with these outlandish characters, and you bring

1103
01:18:16.239 --> 01:18:20.079
in these outlaws, not these corporate
yes, yes sir, yes sir.

1104
01:18:20.119 --> 01:18:23.319
I will do what you say and
I will watch what I say. But

1105
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:27.239
you bring in these these crazy people
that I watched when the aw A first

1106
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:30.199
came on my television. There's generations
of fans who don't even have a sample

1107
01:18:30.239 --> 01:18:33.840
of what that is unless they go
back and really watch old stuff. And

1108
01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:38.680
it's a shame. And it's even
a bigger shame at your point that TNA

1109
01:18:39.399 --> 01:18:44.399
is not in eleven years that hasn't
crossed their mind, especially the last couple

1110
01:18:44.439 --> 01:18:48.039
of years, that we need that
youthful attitude and that our Senio All example

1111
01:18:48.119 --> 01:18:51.600
is great. Yeah, we need
a bit alternative. Yeah, instead of

1112
01:18:51.680 --> 01:19:00.159
trying to do what WWE is doing
or did yeah, do something different,

1113
01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:04.520
do what no one else is doing. Yeap. That's why Eric Bischoff was

1114
01:19:04.520 --> 01:19:10.600
successful. He's sole ideas from Japan
and Philadelphia and made it work. Yeah,

1115
01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:14.000
exactly. And you know what Vince
wasn't doing. And that's what Eric

1116
01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:15.760
told me in the interview I did
with some about five years ago. He

1117
01:19:15.760 --> 01:19:17.239
said, I sat down with a
with a with a notepad and I drew

1118
01:19:17.239 --> 01:19:20.000
a line down the middle and I
said, what does WWE do. I'm

1119
01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:23.199
not judging it, I'm just saying
what do they do? What are there?

1120
01:19:23.399 --> 01:19:26.119
What are their philosophies? And I
filled the left side and then I

1121
01:19:26.119 --> 01:19:29.359
wrote the opposite down on the right
side, and I circled about a dozen

1122
01:19:29.359 --> 01:19:32.760
of those things that I thought would
would would collectively make WW more successful,

1123
01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:38.079
and then I made Nitro And and
I don't think that TNA. I mean,

1124
01:19:38.359 --> 01:19:40.600
I just don't think there's people in
TNA who are thinking that way and

1125
01:19:40.880 --> 01:19:44.399
not. You know, I don't
know how, I don't know how tied

1126
01:19:44.479 --> 01:19:46.479
Dave Legana and Matt Conway's hands are. I don't know if Dave Legana is

1127
01:19:46.479 --> 01:19:50.479
trying to live and live relived ECW, you know, experience which was so

1128
01:19:50.760 --> 01:19:55.479
unique to its time it cannot be
reproduced because it broke so many conventions and

1129
01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:59.199
rules, and it just it won't
work in twenty fourteen. U think that

1130
01:19:59.199 --> 01:20:01.199
booking philosophy without a lot of the
other ingredients, I can't be present.

1131
01:20:01.640 --> 01:20:05.279
And you know, I just and
Dixie Carter doesn't have any idea what we're

1132
01:20:05.279 --> 01:20:09.880
talking about right now, So you
know, I mean, it's just I

1133
01:20:09.880 --> 01:20:13.840
mean, it's not her fault.
I'm not saying she's She's no AWA is

1134
01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:18.359
a root beer right, yeah,
she should she should be this she owns

1135
01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:21.399
a wrestling company. But anyway,
now by now she should so PJ.

1136
01:20:21.560 --> 01:20:25.239
Same to you, T and A
you're from now more or less relevant than

1137
01:20:25.239 --> 01:20:27.359
today, and I mean, got
it sounds like a load of quad and

1138
01:20:27.399 --> 01:20:30.399
after our answers or what we just
talked about that, look, you know,

1139
01:20:30.479 --> 01:20:33.439
I decided to dude, it took
every every fiber in my being not

1140
01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:36.640
to just jump in what you guys
were saying, and I agreed with your

1141
01:20:36.680 --> 01:20:43.840
better than much every single thing you
guys said. Unfortunately, look, I'm

1142
01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:46.640
still an active wrestler. I just
turned forty years old. I want to

1143
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:51.359
work. I want to get a
job. The odds of that are pretty

1144
01:20:51.399 --> 01:20:56.920
pretty small, you know, and
the reason is there's nowhere to work.

1145
01:20:57.359 --> 01:21:00.960
So from my perspective, I think
a company like T and A, Look,

1146
01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:06.640
they're not going to out WWE the
WWE. They have these corny backstage

1147
01:21:06.640 --> 01:21:11.800
skits. Some may be better than
others. Some, I mean, look,

1148
01:21:12.039 --> 01:21:16.079
I check out every correspondent on the
Torch Pro Wrestling dot Net, Dave

1149
01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:21.920
Meltzer, I read it all.
I observe the entire business and I look

1150
01:21:23.439 --> 01:21:28.640
for the you know what it is
that might be the answer, but unfortunately

1151
01:21:28.720 --> 01:21:31.279
they don't got it. They have
the talent, they have the skill,

1152
01:21:31.359 --> 01:21:35.119
they have the ability, but unfortunately, you know, I just don't know

1153
01:21:35.159 --> 01:21:41.560
what. They're unfortunately going to be
way worse than they are right now in

1154
01:21:41.560 --> 01:21:45.359
twenty fourteen. I don't think they
will be around. I don't think nobody

1155
01:21:45.359 --> 01:21:48.560
who's going to want to buy TNA. I'm not sure what they're looking to.

1156
01:21:48.560 --> 01:21:54.319
Tommy. Listen, listen. They're
looking to Tommy Dreamer, who is

1157
01:21:54.359 --> 01:21:57.520
a great personal friend of mine,
one of my best friends in this business,

1158
01:21:58.039 --> 01:22:01.279
to draw a house in the see
New York for one of their hardcore

1159
01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:05.199
or whatever, their one night only
pay per views old school pay per views

1160
01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:13.279
in Kokitsie. Because we drew a
house for Tommy's house of hardcore, you

1161
01:22:13.319 --> 01:22:15.840
know, so they take you back
on Dreamer to try to just draw a

1162
01:22:15.880 --> 01:22:19.840
house. Okay, So if they're
drawing, if they're going to Tommy Dreamer

1163
01:22:19.880 --> 01:22:26.359
to help them in a certain market, it just shows how in the national

1164
01:22:26.720 --> 01:22:31.720
or global position, how pathetic it
really is. Now. I'm not dising

1165
01:22:31.840 --> 01:22:35.880
Dreamer. I love and respect everything
Tommy's doing. This isn't a knock.

1166
01:22:35.960 --> 01:22:41.439
I'm just saying, you're looking to
guys on the indie level to use their

1167
01:22:41.520 --> 01:22:47.000
names in their ECW repertoire and what
we've accomplished to bump up TNA because nobody

1168
01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:51.920
gives a clap about KNA. They've
had eleven All it is, they've had

1169
01:22:51.920 --> 01:22:58.560
eleven or twelve years to establish their
identity. And I think nobody cares.

1170
01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:01.479
Nobody would be at that. I
had people, I had friends because I

1171
01:23:01.560 --> 01:23:05.399
only lived an hour from that arena
where they held that event. I had

1172
01:23:05.479 --> 01:23:11.560
friends in the arena. Nobody would
have cared if Dreamer didn't have a hand

1173
01:23:11.560 --> 01:23:15.319
in that. It's just another crap
k and a show. That's what everybody

1174
01:23:15.359 --> 01:23:16.720
says. That's what all the fans. I believe you. I have a

1175
01:23:16.760 --> 01:23:20.039
pulse around my area, you know, so it's not like a big thing,

1176
01:23:20.079 --> 01:23:23.920
but whatever, I know people,
and that's what they say. Nobody

1177
01:23:23.960 --> 01:23:28.319
would have given damn if Dreamer wasn't
involved. And that's what I'm saying.

1178
01:23:28.359 --> 01:23:32.039
They're they're grasping in every little straw
and it's they're better that. They could

1179
01:23:32.079 --> 01:23:35.359
be better than that, they could
be so much better. That's that's,

1180
01:23:35.479 --> 01:23:39.520
you know, that's just the lost
opportunity that is DNA. The last ten

1181
01:23:39.600 --> 01:23:44.439
twelve, Oh boy, if you
and I have talked about this in detail

1182
01:23:45.079 --> 01:23:47.399
time, I mean with I mean
the past two or three. I think

1183
01:23:47.399 --> 01:23:51.520
we've got two prior life casts,
we've talked about both of the you know,

1184
01:23:51.560 --> 01:23:55.840
the lost opportunity and what it would
take for K and H to you

1185
01:23:55.880 --> 01:23:59.319
know, get up there, and
and they just, you know, we've

1186
01:23:59.359 --> 01:24:03.880
agreed that they just don't have the
whatever it is that they're doing to get

1187
01:24:03.920 --> 01:24:09.079
there. And it's so frustrating because, believe me, there's nobody that wants

1188
01:24:09.800 --> 01:24:14.359
T and A to work more than
the average wrestler or the average fan because

1189
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:19.079
with with competition, there is better
wrestling. You know, the Monday Night

1190
01:24:19.119 --> 01:24:27.000
Wars were epic because you know,
w CW came up and they challenged Vince

1191
01:24:27.039 --> 01:24:30.640
the they punched him in the fucking
they punched him in the mouth, and

1192
01:24:30.159 --> 01:24:34.439
you know, they they threatened his
existence and Vince had to come out fighting.

1193
01:24:34.760 --> 01:24:40.600
So Vince went to whatever it takes
to succeed, and you know,

1194
01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:43.600
and then you know, it's just
that there's that back and forth mentality,

1195
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:50.560
that spirited rivalry that created that you
know, will created creativity, and I

1196
01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:55.479
think that's what it's going to take. And unfortunately that doesn't exist, and

1197
01:24:56.199 --> 01:24:58.520
you know, we're we're going to
have to find it in some way,

1198
01:24:58.640 --> 01:25:04.399
that some kind of unique thing that
that's going to spark this business, and

1199
01:25:04.600 --> 01:25:08.920
I just don't see it anytime soon. You know, we're always trying to

1200
01:25:08.920 --> 01:25:14.720
rehash old stuff, and unfortunately,
you know, I don't think it's going

1201
01:25:14.800 --> 01:25:16.239
to be anything old. I think
we're gonna have to, you know,

1202
01:25:16.640 --> 01:25:21.000
hopefully something new and we'll see.
I mean, I don't know, or

1203
01:25:21.079 --> 01:25:25.800
go go back to the old,
the old, the old format where wrestlers

1204
01:25:25.800 --> 01:25:29.560
bought wrestlers to win titles and everything
else was to dress that up. We've

1205
01:25:29.600 --> 01:25:32.279
talked about it. We've talked about
it a million times. Yeah, yeah,

1206
01:25:32.520 --> 01:25:36.119
I'm on or the concept right,
yeah, yeah, where we are

1207
01:25:36.319 --> 01:25:40.800
we are getting to the point where
that is a fresh idea. I know.

1208
01:25:45.600 --> 01:25:48.119
You don't have to wait for the
weight Keller Pro Wrestling post show to

1209
01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:51.159
find out what I thought of Monday
Night Raw SmackDown. Each week, you

1210
01:25:51.159 --> 01:25:57.279
can check out my reports that are
updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pw

1211
01:25:57.399 --> 01:26:00.119
torch dot com. I written report. We'll tell you what's happening in detail

1212
01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:03.760
in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and

1213
01:26:03.800 --> 01:26:09.159
give my random thoughts quips on what
I am watching as it airs. So

1214
01:26:09.279 --> 01:26:13.920
check it out every Monday night and
Tuesday Night at pewtorch dot com. That

1215
01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:17.600
also applies to WWE payperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com

1216
01:26:17.600 --> 01:26:20.840
with a detailed written report with star
ratings, and of course you can find

1217
01:26:20.880 --> 01:26:27.199
other TV reports from other contributors to
pw torch such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling,

1218
01:26:27.319 --> 01:26:30.960
and more. Check it out pw
torch dot com your first stop for

1219
01:26:30.319 --> 01:26:45.479
TV and pay perview written reports.
I think that is I know, big

1220
01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:48.520
things, I went on. I
mean, I felt bad when I was

1221
01:26:48.520 --> 01:26:53.359
transcribing this week the newsletter because I
had Steve Boston on my show and I'm

1222
01:26:53.600 --> 01:26:56.159
typing out my question, my questions
longer than his answer. I'm like,

1223
01:26:56.199 --> 01:26:58.479
I got Steve Boston on the show. I can talk about this anytime,

1224
01:26:58.640 --> 01:27:00.439
let me ask quick. But I
went on this. I went on that

1225
01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:05.079
rant that the next big thing is
going to be simply promoting the show that's

1226
01:27:05.159 --> 01:27:10.119
about wrestlers fighting wrestlers for a title
like that, that we're so far from

1227
01:27:10.199 --> 01:27:15.279
it now that that actually is a
new thing, and it's what works in

1228
01:27:15.479 --> 01:27:19.119
every other era, in every successful
territory. That's what made it draw is

1229
01:27:19.159 --> 01:27:24.119
wanting to see a wanting to see
somebody you liked beat up somebody you didn't

1230
01:27:24.399 --> 01:27:26.920
in order to win a title that
meant more than the super Bowl. And

1231
01:27:26.960 --> 01:27:30.439
in the universe you create on your
TV show, if you create that.

1232
01:27:30.760 --> 01:27:33.479
Steve Aouston's response, that was great, which is fans will believe what you

1233
01:27:33.560 --> 01:27:38.239
tell them, and I think promoters
have black spiders. Fans will suspend their

1234
01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:42.680
disbelief and watch and buy into it. If you look like you're buying into

1235
01:27:42.720 --> 01:27:45.079
it too, they want to.
They don't want no, I'm randy,

1236
01:27:45.119 --> 01:27:47.279
But like when John Cena goes out
there says, I hope we entertained you.

1237
01:27:47.279 --> 01:27:50.119
I hope you've been entertained. My
job is to entertain you. Screw

1238
01:27:50.159 --> 01:27:54.680
that. No, you're jobs to
fight for Tyler. It's a privilege for

1239
01:27:54.760 --> 01:27:57.119
us to sit and watch you.
But I don't want to think you want

1240
01:27:57.119 --> 01:27:59.600
to entertain me. I want to
think that it's my privilege to spend one

1241
01:27:59.640 --> 01:28:01.760
hundred dollar to watch you fight for
something that matters, not pander to me

1242
01:28:01.960 --> 01:28:06.479
and thank me for doing it.
So anyway, thank you right now,

1243
01:28:08.800 --> 01:28:12.199
Waite. I could not have articulated
it better than you just did. It's

1244
01:28:12.279 --> 01:28:17.720
so true. Not fish and then
all the other stuff, all the other

1245
01:28:17.720 --> 01:28:21.239
stuff, and there are with all
the fun there's fun skits, there's fun

1246
01:28:21.279 --> 01:28:26.000
promos, there's funny color, there's
Bobby Heenen doing comedy. That's that's where

1247
01:28:26.039 --> 01:28:29.399
the entertainment comes in. You know, that's where the other app comes in.

1248
01:28:29.840 --> 01:28:32.359
Well, then we can entertain.
But I know in PG, I

1249
01:28:32.359 --> 01:28:35.239
agree with you on everything, but
I want to I always try to make

1250
01:28:35.279 --> 01:28:40.840
sure that we don't create a separate
definition. And I know it's the vernacular

1251
01:28:41.079 --> 01:28:44.479
that there's wrestling and there's entertainment entertainment. Because I think language, use of

1252
01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:47.479
words is really important. We need
to meld those again so that we realized

1253
01:28:47.640 --> 01:28:53.479
the wrestling is the entertainment. That's
what makes this genre work. It's not

1254
01:28:53.720 --> 01:28:56.960
there's their entertainment and then the wrestling. If we use that language, it

1255
01:28:57.000 --> 01:29:00.720
starts to become accepted. Wrestling is
the entertainment. Everything else and there's a

1256
01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:05.479
different term for it adds to the
core entertainment the wrestling, but it's not

1257
01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:11.479
entertainment and wrestling. I like that
is something so many people say now and

1258
01:29:11.520 --> 01:29:13.840
I think we need to get away
from it because I think it does meld

1259
01:29:13.880 --> 01:29:16.359
in our brains that that's right.
The wrestling isn't entertaining. It's a necessary

1260
01:29:16.399 --> 01:29:20.399
evil, so we can get back
to the entertainment. I see, Yeah,

1261
01:29:20.439 --> 01:29:30.600
you're right, Yeah, absolutely right, Cool Matt any closing words on

1262
01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:35.359
more than I'll this is my final
thought. On more than one occasion when

1263
01:29:35.359 --> 01:29:43.079
I was in the writer's room,
I was noted as saying I think wrestling

1264
01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:46.760
is very entertaining, and I'll leave
it at that. That's awesome. I

1265
01:29:47.560 --> 01:29:50.079
know what I know. I want
to have you. I want to have

1266
01:29:50.199 --> 01:29:54.920
you had on a progress like one
on one. God, you know,

1267
01:29:55.119 --> 01:30:00.760
just it's so amazing though, just
being in there, you know that insight

1268
01:30:00.840 --> 01:30:03.600
of what really goes on? You
know, I mean does it? And

1269
01:30:03.720 --> 01:30:06.600
that's to throw the interview. I'm
not trying to control the interview, but

1270
01:30:08.279 --> 01:30:15.319
just how god, I should I
say? This? Does it for fans?

1271
01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:19.239
Does it? You know? Is
there any semblance of real wrestling or

1272
01:30:19.279 --> 01:30:25.119
anything that we care about as purest
or at least I'm a purist that still

1273
01:30:25.159 --> 01:30:29.039
stands in being that you were there
pretty recent, you know, I mean,

1274
01:30:29.119 --> 01:30:33.479
is there or is it just pure
television? You know what I mean?

1275
01:30:34.640 --> 01:30:39.680
Not at all? The window kind
of I know, because let me

1276
01:30:39.680 --> 01:30:44.720
tell you, I understand pro wrestling
so much better than I ever did because

1277
01:30:44.760 --> 01:30:49.439
of the education I got within those
walls. It is still a wrestling organization

1278
01:30:49.840 --> 01:30:54.880
and there are still people, and
like, you know, I would be

1279
01:30:55.079 --> 01:30:57.279
very ignorant and be like, well, why don't we do this? And

1280
01:30:57.319 --> 01:31:00.560
then somebody would be like, well
because of this, this, this,

1281
01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:02.960
this and this, and then I'm
like oh, and I like, really,

1282
01:31:03.359 --> 01:31:06.039
I didn't learn how to be a
TV I said this to wage last

1283
01:31:06.039 --> 01:31:09.800
time. I didn't learn how to
be a TV writer. I learned how

1284
01:31:09.800 --> 01:31:14.760
to be a wrestling booker. And
which is strange because when you watch the

1285
01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:19.319
show, you don't think that the
priority is unrestling anymore, but it still

1286
01:31:19.399 --> 01:31:26.000
is. You're still surrounded by brilliant
minds, the guys that understand the business.

1287
01:31:26.600 --> 01:31:29.359
And even like the other writers,
you know, the guys that have

1288
01:31:29.479 --> 01:31:35.279
been there and understand it and have
survived, it's because they understand the business.

1289
01:31:35.319 --> 01:31:43.039
But it's also ultimately you have to
understand Vince. And that's right,

1290
01:31:43.199 --> 01:31:47.560
that's and that's right different because it's
not the weird hyebridge, you know.

1291
01:31:47.600 --> 01:31:51.800
It's it's like, it's no different
than reading a book by Larry Manisk He's

1292
01:31:51.800 --> 01:31:56.119
going to explain for wrestling to you, and he understands it very well.

1293
01:31:56.760 --> 01:32:00.199
But then the X factor is Sam
Mushneck. It's like he knew how to

1294
01:32:00.439 --> 01:32:08.119
please Sam, like whereas like I
could write something or book something that I

1295
01:32:08.159 --> 01:32:11.159
know would please a wrestling stam,
but then you also have to please Vince

1296
01:32:11.239 --> 01:32:15.279
because he's the guy in charge.
I'm sure Kape Sipolski would say the same

1297
01:32:15.279 --> 01:32:17.720
thing, like he learned for a
wrestling but he also learned how to please

1298
01:32:17.760 --> 01:32:23.119
Paul Hayman. You know, sure, sure, sure? Is it is

1299
01:32:23.159 --> 01:32:26.760
it? Really? What it all
comes down to is there's one guy in

1300
01:32:26.880 --> 01:32:30.840
charge and it's up to him,
and that's what you're left. Amen.

1301
01:32:30.960 --> 01:32:34.920
No, you're you're absolutely right.
That's that's double point. You're right,

1302
01:32:35.199 --> 01:32:41.800
Amen, you're right. Thank you
guys, time to wade. It's a

1303
01:32:41.840 --> 01:32:45.439
good discussion. I hope the thank
you Yeah, Matt, PJ and uh

1304
01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:49.680
and Andrew too. He's already posted
on Twitter that he is giving a thumbs

1305
01:32:49.720 --> 01:32:56.239
up in a big thanks or endorsing
the conversation. So thanks to Andrew Goldstein.

1306
01:32:56.840 --> 01:33:01.039
Matt McCarthy, Matt, when is
when is uh now the name of

1307
01:33:01.079 --> 01:33:03.359
the show? Pete Home Show?
When is that going to be? On

1308
01:33:03.439 --> 01:33:09.920
CBS again, I don't we Well, we got picked up and we're gonna

1309
01:33:09.920 --> 01:33:13.000
be coming back. I don't know
what our start date is for season two,

1310
01:33:13.079 --> 01:33:17.479
but we will be back, and
we're on Monday's Monday to Thursday,

1311
01:33:17.520 --> 01:33:21.279
four nights a week at midnight,
where we follow Conan four by the week.

1312
01:33:21.319 --> 01:33:24.640
But not yet. If people go
looking, they're going to see something

1313
01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:29.000
else. That's the second season starts
in a month or two roughly, probably

1314
01:33:29.279 --> 01:33:31.359
maybe even sooner. But yeah,
oh cool, awesome, excellent, But

1315
01:33:31.439 --> 01:33:35.119
we'll be coming back. And I
on my podcast, we Watch Wrestling is

1316
01:33:35.159 --> 01:33:43.000
every Wednesday at three sixteen am.
What's the story behind that? Well,

1317
01:33:43.119 --> 01:33:45.560
I was like, well it's got
to be if we're going to drop out

1318
01:33:45.560 --> 01:33:47.319
a time, that's not four twenty, it's got to be three sixteen.

1319
01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:51.159
But they were like, well it
needs to be in the morning, and

1320
01:33:51.159 --> 01:33:55.039
I was like, well, three
sixteen happens in the morning. If that

1321
01:33:55.079 --> 01:33:59.960
works, that works excellent. Peach, thanks a lot. Any any fun

1322
01:34:00.119 --> 01:34:04.479
plugs where people real quick just you
know, just watch up for the third

1323
01:34:04.560 --> 01:34:09.359
season of fort using one on one
on YouTube. Just go to the search

1324
01:34:09.399 --> 01:34:15.000
engine and follow me at pj Plato
on Twitter and as always Wade, Matt,

1325
01:34:15.079 --> 01:34:16.600
it is a pleasure to talk to
you and Wade as always, you

1326
01:34:16.640 --> 01:34:20.880
know, highly regarded that you guys
are the best. Wait. I love

1327
01:34:21.199 --> 01:34:25.279
being a part of the Torch All
Star panel, and you know, it

1328
01:34:25.319 --> 01:34:28.239
was a real pleasure. I had
a great conversation. I really enjoyed myself

1329
01:34:28.239 --> 01:34:33.520
tonight. I bought up frustration out
tonight. Yeah, so go take some

1330
01:34:33.520 --> 01:34:38.279
deep breaths, maybe take a warm
bath, speech read a little uh you

1331
01:34:38.319 --> 01:34:44.479
know, read read a night's there
you get. Yeah, all right,

1332
01:34:44.479 --> 01:34:46.760
Well maybe we'll get to the same
group back together down the line and compare

1333
01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:51.279
notes on whether we're more or less
frustrated. Yeah, that's cool. Thank

1334
01:34:51.319 --> 01:34:56.159
you much. I really appreciate it. Happy New Year, guys. Absolutely

1335
01:34:56.279 --> 01:34:58.800
take care of Thank you if you
remember it's for making it possible for us

1336
01:34:58.840 --> 01:35:17.920
to do this. Invite you to
email the show with feedback or questions or

1337
01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:24.279
comments. That email address is Wade
Keller Podcast at petewtorch dot com. That's

1338
01:35:24.319 --> 01:35:28.600
Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter.

1339
01:35:28.720 --> 01:35:32.079
You can follow us on Twitter at
PW Torch and follow me at the Wade

1340
01:35:32.159 --> 01:35:39.960
Keller that's at PW Torch and at
the Wade Keller. Searching for more great

1341
01:35:40.000 --> 01:35:44.079
pro wrestling talk, then join me
Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro

1342
01:35:44.159 --> 01:35:47.399
Wrestling Boom Podcast. Each week he'll
hear the latest news and analysis from me

1343
01:35:47.479 --> 01:35:50.680
and my team at Pro Wrestling dot
Need, along with other pro wrestling media

1344
01:35:50.760 --> 01:35:56.359
members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable

1345
01:35:56.439 --> 01:36:00.319
names in the pro wrestling industry.
Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, down Cast,

1346
01:36:00.359 --> 01:36:03.560
and all your favorite secondary apps,
or visit us directly at PW boom

1347
01:36:03.600 --> 01:36:10.520
dot com. Once again, that's
PW boom dot com. Thanks for listening

1348
01:36:10.560 --> 01:36:14.359
to our podcast. Did you know
we also have a website pwtorch dot com.

1349
01:36:14.479 --> 01:36:17.520
Daily news updates, editorials, and
my live TV coverage covering Raw,

1350
01:36:17.600 --> 01:36:23.960
Dynamite and SmackDown and my live pay
per view coverage for WWE and AEW.

1351
01:36:24.199 --> 01:36:27.319
Create a tab or bookmark make it
a daily stop. Visit us throughout the

1352
01:36:27.399 --> 01:36:30.960
day every day to keep up on
breaking news and more. That's PW torch

1353
01:36:31.159 --> 01:36:36.159
dot com. Need an extra dose
of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? Will

1354
01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:42.800
come join me Alan fourrel Over in
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1355
01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:45.800
we mask on the bright side of
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1356
01:36:45.840 --> 01:36:50.680
matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan, Europe

1357
01:36:50.800 --> 01:36:55.800
or Mexico. There's always a place
for wrestlings past and the Paradise too,

1358
01:36:56.079 --> 01:37:00.680
and we've done fun historical shows such
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1359
01:37:00.720 --> 01:37:04.479
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01:37:04.479 --> 01:37:09.159
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1361
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1362
01:37:13.479 --> 01:37:18.199
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1366
01:37:34.159 --> 01:37:39.960
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1367
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1369
01:37:46.279 --> 01:37:49.640
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1371
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1375
01:38:09.199 --> 01:38:16.000
comments section. Thank you so much. In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into

1376
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the developmental system and ultimately the brand
you see today. On the Torch Vip

1377
01:38:21.159 --> 01:38:27.239
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll
be taking a weekly look at this page

1378
01:38:27.239 --> 01:38:31.880
in NXT's early history. Join Kelly
Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks

1379
01:38:31.960 --> 01:38:36.199
NXT every Saturday as we go eight
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1380
01:38:36.279 --> 01:38:41.880
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1381
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1382
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1386
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1387
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1388
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1390
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Go VIP and dive into our post
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plastic bag, wondering if they got
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the food? How much should you
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including gourmet plus ketto calorie smart,
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weekly add on options. You've got
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from. The holiday season is especially
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included, and taking time to cook
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not what Factor delivers. Factor is
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can put the money you saved toward
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commitment to ingredients with integrity, you
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free, like their three bean vegan
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occasion meal. Gourmet plus is a
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and friends. No one have to
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during the holidays, Factor is flexible. Change your order every week with plans

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from four to eighteen meals per week, or pause or reschedule your deliveries any

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time, so stress less over meal
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doing cleanup, so you can fully
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kitchen. Factor meals arrive ready to
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