WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:13.080 Love talk radio. Welcome to us a think tank with your host Alejandro rou 2 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:30.799 all Right, I really love that intro music that comes from Kevin McCloud of 3 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:34.280 a Clan McCloud, great guy. He has a lot of free music up 4 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:38.040 on his website, so check it out if you have a blog, if 5 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:42.040 you have a podcast, you know, it's got a lot of cool music 6 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:49.200 he lets people use for free. Anyhow, this is Alejandro Rojas here to 7 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:53.000 talk with Rob Switek today. So many of you know, I'm the Moufon 8 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:59.319 Director of Public Education, so I handle media all of that fun stuff for 9 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:04.159 Mofon International, and our guest tonight is one of my move On bosses. 10 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:07.400 We have a board, a business board, made up of seven or eight 11 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:12.960 people, and they're really kind of the guys who the brain trust figure out 12 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:17.319 what we're going to do and how James, our international director, you might 13 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:22.879 have seen him on our Discovery show. He's the guy who kind of does 14 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:25.080 a lot of the day to day but he has a lot of guidance from 15 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:30.719 some very wise and intelligent people who have been in this field for a long 16 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.919 time. Most of them have been in this field for decades, including our 17 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.520 guests tonight, Rob Switek. He has been involved with the fun for UFO 18 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:46.199 Research out of DC. He's also FU for I love the alphabet suit that 19 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:57.120 the term UFO lets you create FOO for. He's also been part of the 20 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:01.360 UFO Research Coalition, so that what with that be U Fork. There's a 21 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:06.240 new fork two out there you've probably heard of. There's couposts, there's a 22 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:08.879 lot of them. But yet this is a gentleman who's been with FOU for, 23 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:13.719 move On and coup Fork. So we'll talk to him a lot about 24 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.960 that what he's done over the decades. He does. You've probably seen him 25 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:22.159 on a couple documentaries out there, and he also speaks at conferences. In 26 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:24.680 fact, he's at a conference right now, so we'll ask him about that. 27 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:28.840 However, before we get to Rob, I think he's on the line, 28 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:30.879 if you could just give me a sec I always like to go over 29 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:38.280 some UFO news. So first off is the Examiner dot com. Some of 30 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:44.879 you have probably seen this site. It's become like this hubbub of UFO information, 31 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:49.120 which is wonderful. It was a website put up really just to get 32 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:53.159 news across and they had a great idea of having some blogs in local areas 33 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:58.520 on different subjects, so getting some local people that are experts on this or 34 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.800 that, including I've seen a beer examiner. Denver has a beer examiner. 35 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:06.240 But a lot of areas have UFO experts. A lot of them are moofon 36 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:13.000 members, which is wonderful. So Roger Marsh started one in Chicago. He 37 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:17.240 has now become the national UFO Examiner and he actually works with moufon and he 38 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:21.879 was doing this already. He was putting together moofon reports and kind of writing 39 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:26.360 little stories on him and putting up on his website. Now this gives him 40 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:30.120 a national audience, which is great because he does a good job. So 41 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:35.120 one of the news links I have up here, and of course if you're 42 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:39.519 listening on a podcast, you could go to UFO think tank dot com and 43 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:44.480 scroll to the bottom and you'll see these news pieces. Or if you're on 44 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:46.720 the blog talk radio, you could click on the right hand side for the 45 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:51.759 UFO Think Tank Yahoo groups. You could actually subscribe to that too, or 46 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:56.199 if you're a moofon member, I also send these out on the moof on 47 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.879 Yahoo groups, So you could go to the moufon dot com and get these 48 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:04.759 stories. But Roger Marsh has put out a lot of move on reports this 49 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:11.079 week, reports over Utah, Texas and Pennsylvania, so we have a lot 50 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:15.040 of sightings going on. He wrote another story about three or four sightings of 51 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:21.120 disc shaped objects. And of course, if you're familiar with UFOs, even 52 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:25.639 though people think it's kind of silly, some people are shocked when they see, 53 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:29.199 you know, different logos with the disc on there and they I've been 54 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:33.680 asked before by reporters, well don't you think that's kind of trivializing things and 55 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:38.480 kind of silly, And I say no, because that's what people report. 56 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:43.360 People are seeing silver discs, just like they copied and put in the movies 57 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.639 back when, So that's what people are seeing. They also see V shapes 58 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:51.000 and in Pennsylvania he writes some stories on some V shapes that people have seen 59 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:55.560 out there. So there's a lot of news there you'll want to check out. 60 00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:00.519 John Chuschler another member of our business board. He luckily he keeps an 61 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:02.839 eye on the media and sends me some links. So we have a couple 62 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:10.240 links of photos being taken of UFOs out of Japan and the Czech Republic. 63 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:14.920 The Czech Republic actually has the photo on the story. The Japanese one doesn't. 64 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.560 But the Japanese story is very interesting because it talks about how a lot 65 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:24.279 of people in Japan don't like to mention that they have sightings because of fear 66 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:29.480 of ridicule and social standing. But they've had a couple famous people, a 67 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.120 couple of younger famous models and stars and things like that, come out and 68 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:38.160 talk about the UFOs that they've seen, so they're hopeful that that'll kind of 69 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:45.560 change that perspective. Another story that's interesting because it comes once again from the 70 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:50.120 Examiner, but it comes from the Denver Progressive Examiner, meaning this is a 71 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:58.079 guy who typically writes about politics, but he has a story about Phil Schneider, 72 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.199 UFOs and the black budget. So if you're not aware of who Phil 73 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.720 Schneider was, this is a gentleman who came out and said that he was 74 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:11.519 an engineer. He said that he helped build secret underground bases in New Mexico. 75 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:16.000 He says he helped build one under dia in Denver, and he died 76 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:19.120 in a mysterious way. And if you go to YouTube you can see some 77 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:24.519 interviews with him. He says that aliens shot him with a laser and fried 78 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:28.519 off his fingers and cut out in his stomach, and he has these actual 79 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.680 physical wounds that you could see. So obviously a very controversial subject, but 80 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:41.240 interesting that a political writer should be getting into that area. And then finally 81 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:45.240 this weekend, I think, starting tomorrow and all week long, the History 82 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:49.480 Channel is going to have a show on ancient astronauts and aliens, so that 83 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:53.439 ot'd be good. It's going to have Eric vondnikin if you know him, 84 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:58.160 he way back in the seventies started looking into what he called ancient astronauts or 85 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:05.759 evidence of aliens, some alien pictures and alien visitations in the distant past. 86 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.959 So that should be a very interesting story on something that you guys might want 87 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:16.079 to check out. So there's the UFO news for the week. Let's move 88 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:22.040 on, and I think I've got Rub on the line. Let's talk to 89 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:30.519 our good buddy. I'm real excited to have him her. Alejandro. There 90 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.799 we go, Hey there, how you doing good, Alejandro. Good to 91 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:35.960 speak with you, Good to be on your show. Yeah you too. 92 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:39.600 It's always fun to talk. And we've got another symposium coming up this summer, 93 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.679 which is always fun for all of us to hang out and talk and 94 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:48.159 catch up. Yeah, they're intense. I will say that, you know, 95 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:54.840 with the guests and everything gets it's an intense weekend. It's busy, 96 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:56.759 busy. But I think what's interesting now that I think about it, a 97 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.120 lot of the times when we sit down and talk, we're not really necessarily 98 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:07.799 talking about UFOs. Well, you're right, yeah, we have a right. 99 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:11.440 Yeah. I was just gonna say, we have our business board agenda, 100 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:16.000 and yeah, we we're not actually talking about details of fightings so much 101 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:20.159 as we're talking about how we're going to UH expend the resources of UFON or 102 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:26.000 how we're going to handle a particular situation or state director or whatever the case 103 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:31.519 might be. Very little actual UFO UH reports are discussed at our business board 104 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.399 meetings. I will say, yeah, but you can go to Roger Marsha's 105 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.879 UFO Examiner to get those details. But you're at a conference right now. 106 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:46.399 Yeah. I'm at the International Forting and Organization Conference and I and I didn't 107 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.360 make it back to my hotel. I let's put it this way. Eight 108 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.879 minutes ago, I was sitting across the table from Bud Hopkins, and now 109 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:58.159 I'm sitting in the parking lots and so and and the company is equally good 110 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.799 in each in each instance. So that's how that is. Well, hopefully 111 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:05.799 you've got some decent weather and you're not freezing out in the car or something. 112 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:11.679 Yeah, thank the Lord here it's it's seventy degrees or sixty five degrees 113 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:16.120 or something, otherwise this would be an ordeal. Were good. I know 114 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:20.039 a lot of people just got back from Laughlin, and that's what's a lot 115 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.960 of fun out there, the warm weather in the winter. Yeah, you 116 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.360 got that right. That's a big conference and on a lot of speakers, 117 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:30.039 and one of our people from Northern Virginia was going out there too often. 118 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.799 So I'm looking forward to meeting with him maybe next week and sitting down and 119 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:37.759 finding out what he has to say about the speakers he saw on the tenor 120 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:41.679 of the of the conference and that type thing. All right, Well, 121 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:46.840 I want to start with you with getting back to the past and kind of 122 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:50.639 how you got involved with all of this, and I believe from what I've 123 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:56.399 read, you've got involved in the late sixties. Yeah. I hate to 124 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:58.399 have to admit that I've been around in the field that long, but you're 125 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:05.399 correct, that's My interest was peaked in the in the late sixties, and 126 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.639 it's never been unpeaked since then, let's put it that way. And I'm 127 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.440 still as fascinated by this subject back and as I was back in nineteen sixty 128 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:18.960 eight. Mm hmm. And it was a Condon report that got you really 129 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:24.600 interested. Yeah, you know, it's it's sort of was that as sort 130 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.480 of in contradistinction to nowadays. When we had details of UFO sightings, they 131 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.720 appeared on the front page of the newspaper, not in the style section or 132 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.240 in the culture section or in a joke section, but news was actually on 133 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:39.639 the front page. And I got somehow I got hooked over a sighting. 134 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:43.360 I don't pretend to be an abductee. I was never sucked up into a 135 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:48.000 UFO or anything like that, but the sightings got me hooked. And simultaneously 136 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:52.000 with them, I read about this group of people of scientists actually, that 137 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.720 was looking into the subject at the University of Colorado, and I just thought 138 00:11:54.759 --> 00:12:00.879 that was that was so marvelous. And I figured to myself that after having 139 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.159 read just a while about UFOs, that it would probably be a matter of 140 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.840 just a few years before this whole mystery would be sort of rolled up once 141 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:13.080 the professional scientist got involved, and we know all the answers, and little 142 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:15.759 did I know that forty years from that day, you know, you and 143 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:20.879 I would be having this conversation and we essentially know as much about UFOs now 144 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:24.360 as we knew back then. We haven't learned too much about the actual phenomenon, 145 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.240 right, And so you said it was a couple of sightings though that 146 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:35.480 originally got you interested. Well, yeah, I don't remember what exactly what 147 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:39.159 ones they were, but like I say, local sightings would be on the 148 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.600 front page of the newspaper, and UFO books were Yeah, yeah, we're 149 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:48.279 very highly placed in stores. It wasn't difficult to find a UFO book, 150 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:54.879 and reading a few of those, it just completely got me just intrigued, 151 00:12:54.200 --> 00:13:00.960 as fascinated, whatever words you want to use there as to this strange subject 152 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:07.840 that was going on all around normal everyday life. So it wasn't actual personal 153 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:11.720 sightings that you had, No, I've never had, never had a fighting 154 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:18.840 unfortunately. Really that is interesting because it's interesting that I know a few. 155 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:22.519 I know John Schuschler, well he has had a sighting, but you know, 156 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.519 he was in this for a long time before then, and me too. 157 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.279 I didn't get involved with this from a sighting that I had. It 158 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:37.240 was really this disclosure project, and I had sightings years later. But yeah, 159 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:43.799 yeah, it was the intrinsic intellectual curiosity that that just got me involved. 160 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.679 Mm hmm, yeah, me as well. So you know, I 161 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.799 want to that brings up another topic I kind of wanted to mention too. 162 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:56.519 In your thoughts on back then, you thought, oh, look at these 163 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:00.000 scientists in Colorado are picking this up. We must be close to a disclosure 164 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:05.879 or an understanding. Yeah today, uh huh, yeah, you're right. 165 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:07.879 Oh yeah, I didn't mean to interrupt you. There, go ahead, 166 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:13.480 Oh, no problem coming up to today then, do you feel that, 167 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.120 you know, there's a lot of stories about us getting closed about Obama and 168 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:24.120 more less secrecy. Do you think we're any closer today than we were back 169 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:28.080 then? No, I don't. Unfortunately, I don't think we're any closer 170 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.639 today than we were back then. You know, every change of administration, 171 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:37.080 or almost every four years, even if the administration doesn't change, I seem 172 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:41.159 to hear stories about wow disclosures right around the corner. Reagan's going to release 173 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.399 details of UFOL sightings once he's out of office. Well, Clinton's going to 174 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.200 release details of uful sightings because he's getting to an end of his term. 175 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.039 Bush is going to you know, and and it probably goes back to Eisenhower, 176 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.000 you know, or before. And I just don't feel that this subject 177 00:14:56.039 --> 00:15:01.759 is releasing its grip on on on on the mystery, that it's releasing its 178 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:07.159 grip of its secrets very easily, which is not making any progress unfortunately. 179 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:13.759 Alejandro, in my little opinion here, m hm, Well, you know, 180 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.480 I hear this from the people who have been in this for decades, 181 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.440 Leo Sprinkle, John Schuschler, a couple of the people that I've asked and 182 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.240 have the same response that you know, we've been in this for a long 183 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:30.159 time. There were un meetings way in the past about UFOs, that's nothing 184 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:33.360 new. There were presidents who have talked about UFOs in the past, that's 185 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:37.240 nothing new. They've they've gone through so many times where they thought it was 186 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:41.480 going to happen that you know, a little more skeptical when it comes to 187 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.720 a lot of the talk that goes on today. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 188 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.039 And I'm privileged. Karen in the Virginia Washington, DC area, to 189 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:58.000 know fellows like Richard Hall and Don Berlenner who were both key and instrumental players 190 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:02.799 with the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena back in the in the mid sixties 191 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:07.639 and early sixties nightcaps. And I really feel that in some say nineteen sixty 192 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:14.639 five to nineteen seventy, the tide actually started to turn back then, and 193 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:19.200 there there was a core or a cadre of scientists, including doctor McDonald James 194 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:26.480 McDonald, who were making inroads into serious investigation of this subject and in training 195 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.679 more scientists into the subject. For example, when doctor McDonald would speak before 196 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:37.240 oh, the Scientific Group, the Triple As, some American Association for the 197 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.519 Advancement of Science, or the once he spoke before the Naval Ordnance Laboratory. 198 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:47.679 He spoke before audiences that were composed entirely of scientists and engineers, professional guys, 199 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:52.240 and I have some of the recordings from these. I have the recordings 200 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.000 of these speeches. And when he gave his talk, you could hear a 201 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.639 pin drop in the room. There was no snickering of embarrassment or or laughter 202 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:06.279 or derisive statements. And these were all scientists, practically none of whom worked 203 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:10.119 in the UFO field, but they were there to hear what doctor McDonald and 204 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:15.359 esteemed scientists had say. And in contradistinction to today, where you know, 205 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.119 Alejandro, how hard we worked to get any new scientists coming into the field, 206 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:25.599 But hardly anybody ever speaks before a purely scientific conference on the UFOs nowadays, 207 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:32.279 and it just doesn't happen. And the tide turned and the Colorado Report 208 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:37.200 was released, and ever since that day, I think we just haven't been 209 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:44.240 on the ascendancy with regard to mainstream science. How did you feel when that 210 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:48.079 report came out? Well, I felt I was obviously kind of young, 211 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:53.279 and I'm still just a teenager, but I felt damned downcast, to be 212 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:57.720 honest with you, I recall knowing that the report was going to be published 213 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:03.920 on the jam Nwar in nineteen sixty nine, and eagerly turning on the TV 214 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.160 and going to the book department of a store I was in, and lo 215 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:12.680 and behold there was the University of Colorado report, and almost simultaneously it appeared 216 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:18.880 on the news with a very disconcerting conclusion that doctor Condon put at the beginning 217 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.000 on his report that there was no reason to scientifically study the subject, but 218 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:26.920 there was nothing to it. And yeah, even for me, a little 219 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:36.039 outsider, a kid, I was very, very very disappointed. Yeah, 220 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:41.720 and that seemed to have a big effect then on that professional field, a 221 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.279 group of people that you're talking about, because that's where you saw that tied 222 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:51.799 turn where there were no longer these addresses to these large groups of scientists. 223 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:59.400 Yeah, you're more correct. The scientist sort of got into walk step behind 224 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.720 doctor conn then, and two years after the Colorado report came out, doctor 225 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:11.759 McDonald committed suicide and shortly thereafter Nightcap disbanded, at least the Nightcap that was 226 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:15.440 around then. It continued for a few years after. But yeah, from 227 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.960 scientific point of view, is the study of the subject dropped off drastically, 228 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:22.160 you know, so like the Dow Jones has dropped off drastically in the past 229 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:27.519 couple of months. That's how scientific interest in UFO has dropped off. Yeah, 230 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:33.680 and we regained it. Yeah, well, we're working on it likely, 231 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:37.279 you know. I had a call with Robert Wood and other one of 232 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:44.920 our directors and Robert Powell and Ron Rigueri yesterday where we're working on a scientific 233 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.799 symposium where hopefully we'll be able to gain some of that ground back question. 234 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:55.000 Yeah, that's an admirable, admirable effort, and that's what we need. 235 00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:00.119 And tomorrow, for example, Alejandro, I will be discussing for are part 236 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:06.400 of my talk the Stephenville MUFON Radar Report, because that's an enormously important document 237 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:11.480 and it deserves to get out there to the mainstream community of people. And 238 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:18.200 we'll see how it goes. Yep, Well, getting into you know, 239 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:22.119 Condon's a good start, because that's what why MUFON started, kind of a 240 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.119 result of conon. Hey, you guys aren't going to do it, so 241 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:29.400 we'll do. And I believe that the Fund for UFO Research started around the 242 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:33.079 same time as that. Correct, Yeah, the fund started about nineteen seventy 243 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:37.480 nine. And yeah, Richard Hall, Don Berlinner and one of our other 244 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:45.079 directors in upon Tom Dooley, were actually instrumental and sounding the Fund for UFO 245 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:48.839 Research. These guys decided one day, sitting at a bar someplace, that 246 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:53.160 what was needed in the UFO field was an organization that could just raise money 247 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:59.200 and give the money back out again for scientific research, and not publish a 248 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.839 journal or not have a membership organization, but just seek to gain funds and 249 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.680 seek to give them back out again to scientists or other researchers. And up 250 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.400 until recently that model worked fairly well, and we've just sort of run out 251 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:17.000 of money unfortunately, but we succeeded and hopefully will succeed in the future in 252 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:22.200 doing some pretty interesting things a little bit of money. What were some of 253 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.559 the interesting projects that you guys were able to work on, Well, we 254 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.440 did a lot, and had, for example, gathered together all the witnesses 255 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:37.599 living witnesses to various aspects of the Roswell mystery who had experienced these elements of 256 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:42.799 the Roswell mystery firsthand back in nineteen forty seven. We've paid people to investigate 257 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:48.640 UFO photos. We contributed to the Crop Circle research back in the late eighties. 258 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:55.319 We've done a lot of work with abductees, both in Virginia and just 259 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:59.640 with other researchers who came to us with projects they wanted us to help fund. 260 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.880 So I guess I could honestly say that we've the fund has been involved 261 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.839 in almost every facet of the UFO field that you could think of, from 262 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:15.839 history to abductions and another alphabet super list of things. All right, So 263 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:19.000 let me ask you about a couple of those topics that you guys tackled Roswell. 264 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.319 First of all, do you feel there is evidence then that there was 265 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:27.359 a secret and do you go as far as to believe that it was an 266 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:33.599 extraterrestrial craft? Well, well, you know, Alejandro, I don't really 267 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:37.480 make too many statements of fact in this field. I do think that what 268 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:45.640 happened back in Roswell the Brazel Ranch was profound. Whether it was the crash 269 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:49.359 of an alien object, I don't know. I tend to think that it 270 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:56.119 probably was, and we just have never really received the full story on one 271 00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:00.559 what was recovered back then. There's some documents, theirs, eyewitness testimony, 272 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:07.319 but the truth probably remains, much like the Ark of the Covenant in the 273 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:12.799 UH in the Indiana Jones movies, that it's hidden someplace and in and in 274 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:18.559 compartmented off that so securely for a few people even know about that stuff. 275 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.440 Now, once in a while it's trotted out and maybe they reconsider it in 276 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.000 the light of new technology, can't make any heads or tails of it, 277 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:30.079 and it's put back in again, and there it stays. Few people know 278 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.880 and uh, and until the government actually comes out with the actual wreckage or 279 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:41.039 documents, I don't think we're going to progress in anywhere beyond where we are 280 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:48.839 now with that with that subject. Mm hmm. So then, what were 281 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.200 some of the interesting things some of the witnesses that you guys had gotten contact 282 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.880 with. What were they saying? Well, yeah, they told a very 283 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.319 intriguing story. For example, we got uh, Jesse Marcel to come out, 284 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.519 and then we got a fellow named Verne Maultay. I don't think he's 285 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:11.000 alive anymore. Another fella named Chrome Schroeder. A bunch of people who played 286 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:15.720 various roles in the Roswell episode as we knew it back in nineteen ninety and 287 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:21.720 we had all the UFO researchers that were looking at too crash UFOs. So 288 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:27.000 we had Stan Gordon there and Kevin Randall, Stan Friedman of course, and 289 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.519 a number of other people, and we just asked them to do an oral 290 00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:37.319 history project and we recorded on video what they had to say their testimony, 291 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:44.839 and we grilled them and that's how that went. We got their stories and 292 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:49.079 for posterity, and we later came out with a DVD or a VHS tape 293 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:55.319 and that's still available if a person wanted to get a copy of that really 294 00:24:55.359 --> 00:25:00.279 and we want you find it, well, the Fund for UFO Research Bill 295 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.880 sells that thing. I can't say that our website's going strong, but we 296 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:10.200 do have a DVD. It's called I don't even know the Roswell Experience or 297 00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:12.599 Roswell Best Evidence. I can't remember what the title of that is. But 298 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:17.400 it's like an hour or two hour long DVD that has the best of the 299 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:22.799 excerpts from this videotape testimony and oh cool, Yeah, it's it's just kind 300 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.400 of neat, to be honest with you. It's just raw sort of footage 301 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.839 with some people asking questions, and it's it's not high tech, high tech 302 00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:33.640 production or anything like that, but it's it's a valuable and at least was 303 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:41.480 a valuable adjunct to the researchers as of say, circa nineteen ninety mm hmm, 304 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:47.839 yeah, that sounds like a cool video. So down there, okay, 305 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:53.200 who unfortunately has passed away now, right, but not without leaving us 306 00:25:53.240 --> 00:26:03.079 some pretty interesting kid bits. Yeah yeah, back then, yeah, yeah, 307 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:06.799 back then, Walter Haught wasn't talking and this is a curious thing. 308 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:11.599 Walter Haught wasn't talking about having seen bodies or anything like that. He just 309 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.960 gave us basically the story of how he wrote the press release and what happened 310 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.640 subsequent to that. He didn't say anything about seeing bodies, nor did he 311 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:26.480 even hint that he had that he had seen these anything beyond just the press 312 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.200 release. I don't even think he saw any of the wreckage. According to 313 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:34.480 his testimony then, and as you probably know, obviously, not too long 314 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:40.599 before he died, he came out with videotape testimony indicating that he did see 315 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:45.400 something significantly more important than just records, that he saw bodies of a type, 316 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:51.319 some creatures or something like that. And I don't know what whether he 317 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.759 just withheld that deliberately from us. I don't know what to think of Walter 318 00:26:53.799 --> 00:27:00.279 Hobb's testimony, Mm hmm. What about Colonel KOSHA's testimony? Yeah, there, 319 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.960 there, there, I have a lot more reason to be to be 320 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:07.759 skeptical, Alejandro, at least, it's this is just from my opinion. 321 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.400 Uh course, though has or or did, over the course of the little 322 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:18.039 time he was involved in eupology publicly alleged so many almost impossible things that that 323 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.599 I just couldn't buy it. Bases on the moon, on the far side 324 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:29.160 of the moon, spectacular inventions that that I know from my work at the 325 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.599 Patent Office weren't invented by aliens but were invented by human scientists and engineers. 326 00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:38.039 That I just I just don't accept his testimony. I'm not saying he wasn't 327 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:44.759 involved maybe with UFOs someway, but the gist of his testimony as being at 328 00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:48.599 the center of this sort of effort to get alien technology into the hands of 329 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:56.000 private industry, I just don't buy it. Hm. Interesting, Well, 330 00:27:56.039 --> 00:28:00.880 why do you think someone like him, with the background he has would make 331 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:07.039 up something like that? Well, well, obviously, Alejandro, again these 332 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.160 things, this kind of testimony sold a book, and people used to say 333 00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:15.720 that of Ed Walters, Well, why would Ed Walters fake all these UFO 334 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.680 photographs? Well it made him a lot of money, you know, and 335 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.680 and and it made course a certain amount of money, and it brought him 336 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:27.920 a certain amount of of fame. He was on TV shows, his name 337 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:33.920 was being bandied about in at least the UFO community, and he might have 338 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:38.480 had a role to play in the field back then, but he substantially exaggerated 339 00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:45.000 it, and I just don't give credence to the wilder aspects of what he 340 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.599 has to say. I mean, just to take the part of inventions. 341 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.880 I know how the patent process and the invention process works, having been involved 342 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.640 in it for so many years at the patent office, and I know that 343 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.559 night vision scopes, for example, were have a long pedigree of inventions before 344 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:06.119 they reached the stage of development they have today, for example, And people 345 00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:08.119 think, well, Valkerol was given to us by the Aliens. That's complete 346 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:12.640 nonsense. Velcrol was invented by a Swiss inventor. I think back in nineteen 347 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.839 fifty five, and I have this. I think it was a Swiss patent 348 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:22.200 or something like that. And the transistor, the events and the electronics in 349 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:27.119 the mid nineteen forties in the early nineteen forties were leading inevitably and inelectively toward 350 00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:33.440 the transistor. It didn't just jump on the scene fully formed. It replaced 351 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.640 the tube, you know, the triode tube. And it was a very 352 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:45.680 logical, very logical extension of existing technology. M all right. Thinking of 353 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:51.480 some of the more range areas, or at least at some perspective, as 354 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:56.359 abductions, you said that your fund for UFO research also has worked on the 355 00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.400 abduction area. So what do you feel about bad aspect? You were just 356 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.160 talking with Bud Hopkins. It sounds like, so what are your thoughts on 357 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:08.240 abductions? Yeah, my thoughts, I guess it would you know, how 358 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.960 abductions are a hanzo. You and I could probably have this radio program and 359 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:17.039 extend it to twenty four hours and we'd still hardly cover just abductions. But 360 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:23.039 yeah, I definitely something is going on there. And again, abductions are 361 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:29.079 sort of like the wave particle nature duality of physics. You know, we 362 00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:33.519 say a particle, a white particle can act sometimes like a piece of a 363 00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.359 wave like in the ocean, or can be acting like a particle, And 364 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.240 abductions have this sort of dual nature. Some of the abductions seem to take 365 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:44.720 place in this physical reality as we know it, and some of them seem 366 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:51.200 to involve Whether it's just it's just some kind of a mental abduction, I 367 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:55.559 don't know, but there's a physical component to it of that, there's no 368 00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:00.079 doubt. And the poor abductees are undergoing some kind of of an experience that 369 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:06.279 leads them traumatized and by no means is that purely a mental phenomenon. I'm 370 00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:10.400 not going to try to characterize it like that, because people are missing from 371 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:14.200 their homes and they are gone from their cars, and they are returned, 372 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.440 and there's this gap of time and something is going on again of a very 373 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:26.440 profound nature. Ahead I'm just gonna quickly add, you know, you and 374 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.839 I haven't haven't had a chance to talk about this too much. But we 375 00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:33.319 did have the AMP project, the Ambient Monitoring Project, or the Abduction Monitoring 376 00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:38.799 Project, where we actually put boxes of instruments in people's homes to register what 377 00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:44.400 was going on in the space of their their bedroom, mostly during the night 378 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.960 when they said they would be having abductions. And that project we got a 379 00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:51.319 sponsor for and we've spent several hundreds of thousands of dollars on that project to 380 00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:56.279 try to figure out what was going on with abductions. And that's still under 381 00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:01.119 analysis, right, all of the resolves for the data, yeah, it 382 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:07.559 sure is. We're looking for a few good statisticians and we have reams of 383 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:13.160 data, but we have not been able to find a person yet who has 384 00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:17.079 been able to develope the time needed to look at all that data and if 385 00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:22.079 there's a pattern there or if there's a signal there. We haven't yet had 386 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:27.880 anybody bring it out and were literally Mark Rodiger of the Center for UFO Studies 387 00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:31.720 and I talked about this two nights ago. Are our latest ploy to try 388 00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:37.039 to find somebody, and right now we're just at sort of at loose ends. 389 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:45.480 Yeah, what I find interesting, well, of what sort of data 390 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:51.440 were you collecting? Well, for example, the box would measure We've never 391 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:53.880 actually released what all the instruments were, but doesn't really matter too much now. 392 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:58.000 But for example, we were measuring the presence or the absence of light, 393 00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.799 or the presence or the absence of So we had a microphone in the 394 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:06.039 box and it couldn't pick up conversation, but it just picked up noise or 395 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:07.680 sound level, I guess is a good way of putting it. And we 396 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:13.799 for example, could record the temperature in a room because sometimes MVPs say it 397 00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:16.359 got very cold in the room during the abduction, or a bright light appeared, 398 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:23.759 or you know that type of a thing, And so we tried to 399 00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:30.160 pick those instruments we thought would record what we believed went on during an abduction. 400 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:35.119 So even if we don't. If we don't get back any evidence that 401 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.200 anything occurred in these people's rooms, maybe it's just because we chose the wrong 402 00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:43.000 instruments. But you have to start somewhere. You have to start somewhere. 403 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:49.119 But the people that you chose, did they feel they had events happen while 404 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:53.559 the box was present? An excellent question, Alan, excellent question. The 405 00:33:53.599 --> 00:34:00.519 people were chosen on the basis of past ongoing UFO abduction experience is and during 406 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:06.799 the course of their keeping the box in their home, they were requested to 407 00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:10.199 keep a daily journal and to put down whether anything happened to them the night 408 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:14.800 each day. So they sometimes they might just check a box that said no, 409 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.239 or other times they might check a boxes said yes and yeah. Indeed, 410 00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:23.039 a number of the people did have what they said were abduction events happened 411 00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:28.719 while the boxes in their room, and they did check the yes box in 412 00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:34.320 the journal. Yeah. That that's that's the kind of studies that are so 413 00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.639 exciting. So, I mean, I hope if there are any statiticians out 414 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:42.199 there, you know, get a hold of move On, because we're involved 415 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:46.199 with move On, right, We're involved with helping to get the results analyzed. 416 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:50.639 Uh, you know, get a hold of us, we could see 417 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.519 what's there. That's it's sometimes there's just so much data that it's hard to 418 00:34:54.559 --> 00:35:00.880 get through. Yeah, in this case, there's literally deep these of data. 419 00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:05.719 The box would be as a motive and each day Tom Dooley would download 420 00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:08.360 the results of all the boxes, and I guess we had about twelve or 421 00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:13.400 thirteen of them at the height of the project, at twelve or thirteen addectees 422 00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:16.280 going, I guess we had about six boxes. And so each day he 423 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:20.880 would collect the data from the five or six boxes out in the field, 424 00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:22.960 and over the course of six months, one box would produce an awful lot 425 00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:28.719 of data. A lot of it wasn't important, or it was data collected 426 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:32.679 during the day, but nonetheless some of that data is probably important and it 427 00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:39.599 may there may be a signal there in all the static. What's also interesting, 428 00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:45.519 I think about the abduction phenomena is one where even the most conservative of 429 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:52.199 UFO researchers, you know, with the most credentials out there, pretty much 430 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:55.239 once you look into this buield because I know when I got started, I 431 00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:59.360 was a little skeptical, but once you do the research, you find that 432 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:05.719 they're really is something to that phenomenon. Yeah, you're one hundred percent right, 433 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.119 and it sort of mirrors the ongoing UFO phenomenon. But if you, 434 00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:15.840 just as I have done, sit down with enough abductees and realize that the 435 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:22.000 depth of their emotions when it comes to the subject the abduction phenomenon sometimes, 436 00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:27.639 believe me, it leads us in tears or it shakes us the researchers up 437 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:31.400 a great deal when we're sitting there. It's not easy to deal with abductees 438 00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:36.719 on an emotional level. It's far easier to deal with someone who says they 439 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.920 saw a disc shaped ob to go across the sky than it is to talk 440 00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:47.000 about somebody who has undergone admittedly very seemingly traumatic experiences at the hands of these 441 00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:52.400 whatever the phenomenon is, right, I know, you know, even though 442 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:57.159 being skeptical, I tried to be open when people started to come to me 443 00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:02.039 with sharing that they have these sort of experiences, and it wasn't long before, 444 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:06.480 you know, the ones that we're coming to me. For the most 445 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:12.400 part, we're saying they also see UFOs, often some claiming they had some 446 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.920 videos, and at least one where I looked at her videos and they were 447 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:22.360 impressive and then lo and behold. I eventually had my own experience with seeing 448 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.840 something unexplainable with her. And now you know, I've seen UFOs with three 449 00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:32.440 different people who claim to be abductees. Yeah, and that's you know, 450 00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:37.760 the hard, hard stuffs to throw away there to ignore. Yeah, I 451 00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:44.079 can't say as I ever. Maybe I'm at hard kind of I drawn back 452 00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:46.840 a little bit. But I always would interview with abductees from the safety of 453 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:51.719 my living room with a number of people. Sometimes that would be to call 454 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:55.719 or my wife or whomever. But I can't say as I ever would go 455 00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:59.159 over to the house and spend a lot of time there. Sometimes I would 456 00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:01.760 interview them in the house during the day, but I never asked them to 457 00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:07.760 try to create an experience where I might be involved. That might be closer 458 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:13.599 than I want to get. I have. But you know, as far 459 00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:17.079 as beyond seeing UFOs, I haven't seen anything more. Well, I've seen 460 00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:21.000 a few other things, splashes of lights and things like that. Hearing strange 461 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:28.079 noises, your few feet up on me. Well, yeah, I know 462 00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:32.559 it can't be a little People are like, are you crazy? But you 463 00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:36.960 know, I want to get to the heart of it. So what I 464 00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:40.519 understand what you're saying, but you know, that's what I would advise for 465 00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:45.480 if there are some effects. You say, they see stuff often even during 466 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:49.719 the day. I mean my siding with this, this one female I'm talking 467 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:53.639 about, it was during the day, so that wasn't as scary. And 468 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:58.599 what I found interesting was she was like, well, you know, come 469 00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:00.920 over to do some skywatching. Okay, you know, I thought it'd be 470 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:06.719 a few hours outside watching this guy. No, it's mostly hanging out looking 471 00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:12.159 at this talking, going outside for short periods of time. But sure enough, 472 00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.079 like the second time, you know, just like some people say they 473 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:20.480 have a feeling, it was just going out there and lo and behold something 474 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:28.000 in the sky. That's kind of strange. Chat go ahead, Yeah, 475 00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:31.760 I was gonna say, it's just very odd. That's very intriguing because you're 476 00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:38.159 exactly right. Some abductees and not all of them and at the same time 477 00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:42.320 or anything like that, but some of them actually see things in the sky 478 00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:47.000 sometimes, and other addictees I'm convinced somehow are taken and no objects ever necessarily 479 00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.039 seen over their house. Otherwise, you know, Yuphon will be receiving literally 480 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:58.199 hundreds of reports every day about low hovering UFOs over homes that were just seen 481 00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.920 by a neighbor who will happen to get up to walk around the house or 482 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.559 take the dog out or something, and saw a something hovering over the neighbor's 483 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.559 house, who's an advcty. But we don't get many of those kind of 484 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:15.199 reports. So what the hell is going on with regards That's a great question, 485 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:19.360 because you know, I had been working on a case where there was 486 00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.400 physical evidence, and that's where I think it's interesting with abductions. I think 487 00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:27.559 if we're going to get a case of physical evidence, it's going to most 488 00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:31.440 likely be with abductees. And some people could argue Roger Lear has already done 489 00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:37.880 that. But right those cases where there is evidence that this person was taken 490 00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:45.719 and it's in the middle of a neighborhood full of thousands of people, sure, 491 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:49.119 this seems to happen in the middle of the night, but with nobody 492 00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.920 seeing it, you know, and with the person remembering being taken up into 493 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:58.559 a with a beam into a craft and nobody seeing that, just like you 494 00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.880 said, that is mind boggling. Yeah, yeah, it really is. 495 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:07.920 And unless a person posits as people do that absolutely nothing is going on with 496 00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.880 abductions. It's all mental phenomenon that would explain the data, some of the 497 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.480 data. But people are actually missing, and yet they're not We're just not 498 00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:21.000 seeing those objects. When I lived in Crystal City, Virginia, which is 499 00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.920 where the Patent Office sets to be located, right by National Airport, the 500 00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:30.039 streets were well lit, and yet there were large apartment buildings up and down 501 00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.960 the street that I lived on, including the one I lived in, And 502 00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:37.519 at any time of the day or night, there was traffic down the road 503 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.119 I lived down there, Eide Street. Anytime of the day or night, 504 00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:44.280 people were going by and it was well lit. And yet within the confines 505 00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:50.039 of Eide Street there would be thousands of renters, thousands of renters, and 506 00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:54.119 you just know some of those people were abductees based upon the demographics of abdup 507 00:41:54.199 --> 00:42:00.079 sees scattered throughout society. But yet I never heard reports of wow, UFO 508 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:05.000 was hovering over the apartment building down the street. Never, but yet, 509 00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:08.119 right, you just know that there were something that season those buildings. How 510 00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:14.320 is that? Yeah, there are only two cases I've seen where I remember 511 00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.880 there was someone, wasn't it? Even a un official who saw said he 512 00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:23.280 saw a UFO affecting someone in New York. You were correct, that was 513 00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:30.159 n Hopkins, famous up Linda Kray, Linda K. Cortily. And then 514 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.480 we received a report here in Colorado once outside and and I know Springs, 515 00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:39.079 where they said they saw this object going like house to house and shooting this 516 00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:44.280 laser down for a period of half an hour in the middle of the night. 517 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.800 Yeah, but that's pretty good trying to fault in the case, of 518 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:53.320 course, verged very close to that. But but they're few and far between, 519 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:57.239 to be honest with you, right, Yeah, I agree. That's 520 00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:01.199 all I've heard of about of thousands of ca So you're right, that is 521 00:43:01.239 --> 00:43:05.840 an aspect that's mind boggling. I think that's why some of the better lines. 522 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:12.480 Personally, I am huge fan of John mac and he tries to go 523 00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:15.480 to those other areas. Maybe there is kind of a non physical element to 524 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:21.840 all of this, Maybe it's multi dimensional, but something else going on here 525 00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:27.360 to You've got to account for that, you know. Yeah, I think 526 00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.440 you've put your finger on something. I personally hate to explain one mystery in 527 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:36.400 terms of another, but I oftentimes have to say there's some bending of dimensions 528 00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:39.599 going on here. There's traveling through dimensions and I'm not sure what that means, 529 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:45.239 but there's some very very advanced physics going on here that the human race 530 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:52.719 is nowhere near close to tapping into. And I think the UFO phenomenon, 531 00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:57.960 and here we're getting down to really a lot of speculation on my part, 532 00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:04.559 but having been around this field so long, it's an extraordinarily profound mystery. 533 00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:09.280 It's it's more, it's it's far more complex than just physical craft going across 534 00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:15.039 the sky. There's there's there's some other that they're able to insinuate themselves into 535 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:20.679 our world and into our physical reality in some way that we're not close to 536 00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:24.519 explaining. And that's that's both exciting and it's also depressing because I'm not so 537 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:34.519 sure that we're going to make any inroads into this phenomenon anytime soon. Well, 538 00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:37.960 I I like the way that bick Pope puts it. He says, 539 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:44.280 it's an event led field where you know, we chase the events, and 540 00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:50.440 really it's the events defining what's going on. So yeah, like you said, 541 00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:54.960 yeah, you're you're one hundred percent right. And the new from's the 542 00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.760 latest endeavor here with with with mister Bigelow is going to put what you just 543 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:05.639 said to the test, because we we're depending on the phenomenon to show itself 544 00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:09.039 here so we can get investigators out into the field where at it's mercy, 545 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:15.320 right, and it you know, it gets back to Furme's paradox. You 546 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:20.280 know, if they're here, why don't have evidence that they're here. If 547 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:24.360 they're here, like I think we both agree, then they haven't allowed us 548 00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:30.400 to or haven't provided that sort of evidence, it seems. And so until 549 00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:36.079 they decide to which could be tomorrow or it could be never, then perhaps 550 00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.519 you know, we're at their mercy. We're at the mercy that way. 551 00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:45.079 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's that's exactly right. I'm fond of 552 00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:49.519 saying to people that we're dealing with, in my opinion, non humans, 553 00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:53.119 and we don't know how non humans are going to act, and so try 554 00:45:53.159 --> 00:45:59.039 to to try to predict non humans on the basis of human behavior is ludicrous. 555 00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:01.360 It would. You can just imagine the ant colony to answer the ant 556 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:06.880 colony saying, well, if these large beings around here were truly intelligent, 557 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:14.559 they contact the Queen aunt and you know, no hope of understanding human society. 558 00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:17.840 Maybe we can't understand Anthelm, but the two were just in two completely 559 00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:23.400 different worlds. And sometimes the UFO phenomenon seems that far beyond us that I 560 00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:28.559 wonder if we're really capable of coming to grips with whatever it is that's going 561 00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:34.039 on. I think we are. I am ultimately optimistic, but not necessarily 562 00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:37.360 in the short term. Right. Well, there are some people in the 563 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:43.039 chat asking some questions. There's a guy named Democratic Communists. He's asking a 564 00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:46.320 lot of questions, but I think he already has his answers determined for him. 565 00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:51.719 So I don't know if we're gonna convince that person. But one of 566 00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:54.079 the questions in there from one of the other listeners was twenty twelve. They 567 00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:59.719 wanted to know your thoughts on twenty twelve. That's a good question. This 568 00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:04.559 is an aside. John Ventry, the Pennsylvania MUFON stage director, spoke at 569 00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.039 the INFO conference a few hours ago today and that was his topic. He 570 00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:13.079 didn't talk on UFOs. He spoke on twenty twelve. And I don't know, 571 00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:17.280 ale Hanjo. I don't profess to be an expert in an Aztec and 572 00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:27.000 Aztec history or lore, and I guess I take kind of a that's called 573 00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.119 a silly approach. But I just think when December twenty second, twenty twelve 574 00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:35.280 comes, we're all just going to be going back to work. I think 575 00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:37.360 it's maybe a work day the next day. We're all just going to have 576 00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:43.199 to go back to work and earn our earn our living, and keep heap 577 00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:45.719 coming into our homes. If it's you know, if we're in the colder 578 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:52.159 parts of the country, and I have absolutely no idea. I don't think 579 00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.400 anything's going to happen. But that's just my I'm sorry, that's just my 580 00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:00.719 opinion. Hey, no problem. You know what's kind of funny Franklin Carter. 581 00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:04.480 I don't know if you know him as a disclosure witness, but he's 582 00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:08.280 out of Wyoming. He's running that some conferences out there for a little while. 583 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:12.639 But really great guy, a friend of mine, and he does a 584 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.840 talk called what about Them UFO's. He's from South Carolina. He could be 585 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:22.519 Andy Griffiths brother, but yeah, he's got that total same period of time. 586 00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.920 But he talks about, you know, making sure that you have a 587 00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:32.360 perspective about all of this, even with you know that even if disclosure happened, 588 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:35.760 or something. You know, they're not going to pay our bills. 589 00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.840 We're still going to have to keep on living and keep going to work and 590 00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:45.920 things like that. So yeah, yeah, you know, that's extremely well 591 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:51.400 put. The the fact that the aliens is of the government ounces the aliens 592 00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:53.599 are here. That doesn't mean that the next day, some somehow we don't 593 00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:59.920 have to do things and we can't go all the pieces. Otherwise, if 594 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.519 asiety as we know at civilization as we know it will crumble. And one 595 00:49:04.519 --> 00:49:08.360 of the things I always like to think about is that if a person wants 596 00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:13.920 to see what happens when another person is told that aliens are here, all 597 00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:17.320 we have to do is look at abductees. And here we take the normal 598 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:22.519 abductee is living his or her life, not thinking about aliens or UFOs, 599 00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:25.760 and suddenly they find out they're being abducted by alien beings. To make a 600 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:29.960 long story short, and to assume aliens are behind it, do they go 601 00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:35.039 all to pieces. No. They may be traumatized and they're vastly upset, 602 00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:38.440 but for the most part, they keep on trucking. They're going to the 603 00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:43.000 jobs, and they get through life. They don't go running down the street 604 00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:45.400 yelling at the top of their lungs. The aliens are here. The aliens 605 00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:51.639 are here. They deal with it. M hm. And I think human 606 00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:57.119 beings are human beings are quite resilient enough to accept that aliens might be here. 607 00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:00.840 Yeah, it's interesting in fact that most of the people, and I 608 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:07.960 have seen people in this build who have kind of gotten so wrapped up in 609 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:13.679 it that they have lost their jobs or they kind of are not living in 610 00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:17.320 reality anymore, which is of course that's the bad part. But most of 611 00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:22.639 those people are not necessarily abduct these but people who kind of have the realization 612 00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:28.840 of all that's going on and don't want to participate in normal society anymore, 613 00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:35.639 which is the big danger. But you're right, you know, still not 614 00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:39.639 going to pieces. Abductees are going to work every day and still seeing their 615 00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:47.199 family and sudden they are raising their children, and exactly right. And when 616 00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:51.960 I speak about most people, again, I'm not but there are always exceptions, 617 00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:53.920 like like you noted, there there are always some people who can't take 618 00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:58.639 the pressure, even if they're not have the peace and they they sort of 619 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:02.719 can't then deal with real But for the most part, people and endure this 620 00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:07.519 just like they endured, the the endure the hideous things that wars present. 621 00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:12.800 They they go through with their lives under the most adverse circumstances possible, and 622 00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:17.199 I think humanity will will exhibit this resilience when, when, when, and 623 00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:22.639 if the day comes, we all acknowledge that we're not alone here. Mm 624 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:29.320 hmm. And then a question from the chat room is h they wanted to 625 00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:31.760 ask about the satellite that just went up I think yesterday. Is it called 626 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:37.440 Picarus, the one to look for again? They want to ask you about 627 00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:40.679 that? Your thoughts on that satellite? Yeah, you know, I I'm 628 00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:45.559 embarrassed to say I work on satellites at the at the Patent Office, and 629 00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:49.239 I and I read Aviation Week in Space Technology, and I'm vastly interested in 630 00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.559 the space program for decades now. But but I can't really tell you too 631 00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:59.199 many, too much of the specifics about that particular satellite. H However, 632 00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:06.760 Yeah, we are talking about these satellites much like this study program looking for 633 00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:12.920 planets circling other stars. And I think it's a very commendable effort. And 634 00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.519 we've already had three hundred planets. Are something a little more than three hundred 635 00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:21.239 planets discovered? Around other planets. And I think that this will well again 636 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:27.079 further for further our efforts to really find out how many other planets there are 637 00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:30.239 circling these stars. But what we're going to find out is that the planets 638 00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:35.280 are not the exception. Probably planets circling stars are the rule, and they're 639 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:39.119 going to find that there's Earth type planets are probably a dime a dozen. 640 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:44.119 And this satellite is going to be one of the first satellites that starts to 641 00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:51.199 reveal this truth to the world that again, earthlike planets are not an exception. 642 00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:53.559 They're out there and there is a lot of them out there, and 643 00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:59.039 here we are just starting on. This is the first step on that adventure 644 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:02.760 to find more planets. And the next thing we need to do is somehow 645 00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:07.360 I'm a big proponent of, you know, let's go out there, by 646 00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.840 God, let's build the starship and get out there to the stars and start 647 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:15.400 finding out what's beyond the Solar System. But you know, that's another interview. 648 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:20.280 You know, I think what's exciting of what we've seen over the last 649 00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:22.920 few years, and NASA is always the slowest to get it. I mean, 650 00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:29.599 it took them so long to admit to water on Mars, and I 651 00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:34.280 think the Europeans were talking about it for a couple of years and their evidence 652 00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:37.239 before NASA jumped on. But it is interesting to see, Okay, we've 653 00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:44.519 got Drake's equation, Okay, we'll buy that. Then, you know, 654 00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:49.639 but still there's no close planets that are Earth like. Then finally they start 655 00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:52.679 looking into it, and they keep finding, you know, even though they're 656 00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:57.199 skeptical and they say, no, this isn't going to happen, they keep 657 00:53:57.199 --> 00:54:00.800 finding more and more of this stuff. They keep finding more planets that could 658 00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:07.480 have harbor life. They're finding life can exist in more places than we thought 659 00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:12.360 it could exist. And all of this is just piling up. So you're 660 00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:15.719 right, it's exciting that. I agree with you. I think that's what 661 00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:19.119 they're going to continue to find, that there are a lot more planets out 662 00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:24.320 there similar to Earth than they expect. Yeah, and and and the study 663 00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:30.719 project is is completely prepared to accept that. I suppose and the most most 664 00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:34.320 study scientists say, of course there's life out there. I wouldn't doubt it 665 00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:37.559 for a second, but that all the planets were discovering. But the funny 666 00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:42.400 thing is they're willing to accept life on say, then they're a star which 667 00:54:42.440 --> 00:54:46.119 is three or light years away or years away something. But I say, 668 00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:52.039 well, the alien life of Earth, it becomes soups. It's as long 669 00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:58.920 as it's a star. But to say it's happening on Earth, you're that's 670 00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:02.719 let's let's new age, that's science. Somewhere in the Earth and the near 671 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:07.000 part there's a little life. Science becomes pseudo. It's at least in the 672 00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:15.639 set scientist's view. And tell me that completely. That's a rubbish that the 673 00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:23.039 the these scientists are circumstance having a lot of money and no evidence for uh 674 00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:29.760 general life. Whereas you're starting to cut out a little bit. Okay, 675 00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:35.760 I am talking on the phone, whereas the UFO already has no money and 676 00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:44.280 evidence. No, are you still there? I sure, I am. 677 00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:46.840 No, Okay, you're cutting out. So I didn't hear that your last 678 00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:52.880 phrase. Yeah, I just said making a comparison between the SETI signs and 679 00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:58.280 the UFO community study has a lot of money, the millions of dollars, 680 00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:02.480 no evidence for all money. How they community have money, but an embarrassment 681 00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:10.159 of it that in dealing with alien or non huge an ilony paradox true size 682 00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:21.320 won't Oh you're really cutting up right now. I don't know the phone's losing 683 00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:30.639 it. For Alexandro, it's losing its bars. Maybe the my cell phone 684 00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:37.079 is wearing down. Oh okay, all right, well let's try. Let 685 00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:39.039 me try with the next question. Let's see if it gets any better. 686 00:56:39.079 --> 00:56:45.480 Hopefully. Well okay, good? Oh as a physicist, before I get 687 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:49.679 to another question from the chat room. As a physicist, you know, 688 00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:55.000 another big argument from SETI is that it's not possible that they could travel from 689 00:56:55.000 --> 00:57:00.280 there to hear. What do you think of that statement? To me, 690 00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:05.960 it sounds kind of silly with all the ideas of travel faster than light that 691 00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:09.599 have been talked about, even in Star Trek. But what are your thoughts? 692 00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:14.920 Yeah, you're you're one hundred right again on a one. Anybody that 693 00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:20.719 says it's be a dodge, it's like with the evidence, it seems to 694 00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:24.440 be things visiting or is he I don't know what God here or not. 695 00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:30.679 That's another question for science fall Why don't you deal with Why don't you deal 696 00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:37.320 with the the evidence seems that we have jobjects here of non humans And whenever 697 00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:40.039 someone says it'sistic because they can't hear from there, I don't want to deal 698 00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:52.000 with and they've the fuddle scientis. Yeah, unfortunately we're losing about one out 699 00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:54.800 of five words from you. So hopefully it'll it'll improve itself there a little 700 00:57:54.800 --> 00:58:00.559 better. But that's definitely one of the topics that we will want to tackle 701 00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:05.039 with the scientific Symposium because I know there are a lot of physicists out there 702 00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:13.760 with concepts that we certainly could that there are theoretical ways of going faster, 703 00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:22.480 oh doubt out and science fighters have been dealing subject for years. Can get 704 00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:28.199 here. We just have the or the the we haven't yet at ourselves, 705 00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:31.239 but we do it for no reason to think that the else couldn't do it. 706 00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:38.239 M all right, So let's see another question from the chat room. 707 00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:43.880 What do you think the immense sightings of UFO's point to what are they doing 708 00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:50.400 and why? Yeah, that's a question I can't answer it. The immense 709 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:55.719 number of youth fightings. The immense number means that we opinion, we are 710 00:58:55.760 --> 00:59:01.719 not it's not human intelligence. I don't want their motive operas. I don't 711 00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:12.440 know here as a scientist of enough evidence he answer those questions. I can 712 00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:20.239 specul but that's all like, yeah, so I think that, you know, 713 00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:22.719 just like a lot of people calling in when are what they'll say, 714 00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:25.679 And I love that kind of answer because that's what I like to give to 715 00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:31.519 the media when they ask questions like that is you know, that's all speculation. 716 00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:36.800 All we can do is gather the data and see what the data shows 717 00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:42.039 us. And the data is showing us that they're are we're being visited by 718 00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:49.320 these technologies that seem to be beyond ours and under intelligent control. Unfortunately, 719 00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:52.960 we don't have enough data to give us motives or why they don't land on 720 00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:59.119 the White House lander and things like that, right, And it goes back 721 00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:04.239 to that thing we what a person because they're gonna do the UFO sub because 722 01:00:05.239 --> 01:00:13.039 intelligent uh, any intelligence attact has of ours first. That's again a huge 723 01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:15.559 of looking at things and I don't we're not dealing with too, we're dealing 724 01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:25.440 with al and I don't know aliens behave you know? Right. So unfortunately 725 01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:31.199 that was a question from Democratic Communists and uh, he says he can't accept 726 01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:36.360 that answer, but sorry, here that's the answer we got for you, 727 01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:40.599 my friend. Uh, another answer to give him. And I don't always 728 01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:45.840 sound to be closed minded. Be there's hope. Yeah, you go and 729 01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:51.800 and talk to of seeing UFO, and read relevant nurture on the cases, 730 01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:57.199 read about the most case, and and and reader the quarrel and and read 731 01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:01.920 about how our peopies various foo, and that's up your opinion. But then 732 01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:10.920 people and any objective quickly come to my opinion that they can't exclude the evidence. 733 01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:16.880 That's hope to it. Ope. Then he pointed out he can accept 734 01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:22.239 that answer. Sorry, guy, I read it wrong. It was a 735 01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:25.760 case of me reading what I expect to see rather than looking and reading what 736 01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:32.559 it says. I apologize for that. It's an honest answer. So disclosure, 737 01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:37.920 I wanted to kind of ask you about. You know, people throw 738 01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:44.480 the word disclosure disclosure around a lot, and I think it's a much more 739 01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:49.920 complicated thing than just hey, wu disclosure. You know, I think there's 740 01:01:49.960 --> 01:01:52.760 a lot more to think about. Of course, if you asked Richard Dolan, 741 01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:57.360 for example, he's got to talk to you a bad hours of what 742 01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:04.559 disclosure means. But what is disclosure to you, well, especially to me, 743 01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:10.480 would the government becoming clean on UFO holdings, whether it's humans, whether 744 01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:19.159 it's isolent's toughly whether physical evidence and make a clean breath and come forward and 745 01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:24.360 lead disclosure mean the government has no idea of what's going on. We have 746 01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:30.199 and they some more cases of the disclosal that they may not be anymore answered, 747 01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:40.320 and again predge the government shouldn't say, but but disclosure definitely coming out 748 01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:46.000 with all formation they currently have under rooms. Mm hmm, you know what, 749 01:02:46.039 --> 01:02:50.239 you're still breaking up cold? I have you? Maybe try hanging up 750 01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:53.400 and calling back in real quick. Yeah, it'll take me. Let me 751 01:02:53.400 --> 01:03:00.679 get a cell phone. Okay, okay, yeah, right back, Okay, 752 01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:04.599 no problem, so he'll be right back. So yeah, I want 753 01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:13.159 to apologize again to democratic communists on that, but I loved his answer because 754 01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:17.280 I think that's the right way to go. We can't motives is so difficult, 755 01:03:17.639 --> 01:03:22.760 and one of the things that especially with Moufon, that we try to 756 01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:29.800 do is be careful about speculation. And that could be good and bad. 757 01:03:29.880 --> 01:03:36.559 It could be good because if we give you a piece of information, it 758 01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:43.079 means it's supported by some information, it's supported by evidence, or it's supported 759 01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:47.599 by credible people, scientists or others who have looked in and given us this 760 01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:55.039 information. The bad part is maybe not such a bad thing is that it's 761 01:03:55.079 --> 01:04:00.280 not sensationalistic. So sometimes people get bored with us, Why can't you speculate 762 01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:03.719 this, Why can't you put that together and speculate that, you know, 763 01:04:03.760 --> 01:04:08.119 why can't you give us more answers? And get frustrated because we can't give 764 01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:14.480 them answers. But then we would just be just that speculating and sensationalists. 765 01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:18.199 And I think that's one of the problems with this field right now. Not 766 01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:25.119 to get into names, but if we were to go out and say every 767 01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:29.039 time an administration came in and say, look they're going to disclose. Look 768 01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:33.880 they're going to disclose. Look they're going to disclose, I think that's calling 769 01:04:33.920 --> 01:04:39.159 wolf crying wolf all of the time. And then we would have people get 770 01:04:39.199 --> 01:04:43.440 disillusioned and not want to listen to us because we don't come through with what 771 01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:47.199 we're talking about. But if we stick to the evidence and the data, 772 01:04:47.239 --> 01:04:54.159 such as the Stephenville Report, where we got FAA radar reports that backed up, 773 01:04:54.679 --> 01:04:58.400 you know, the claims of the witnesses, that's something we can back 774 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:04.440 up. That's what's something we have with professionals. Paul Robinson, I saw 775 01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:09.039 you ask, didn't move on, just get backing from Robert Bigelow. Yeah, 776 01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:13.119 you know, we just talked about that. Rob had mentioned it. 777 01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:18.360 It's yeah, essentially it is backing. It's a kind of a partnership where 778 01:05:19.159 --> 01:05:26.639 we keep them a prize of reports, kind of like Roger marsh does for 779 01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:30.719 you all for free on his UFO Examiner, but we keep them a price 780 01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:35.320 of reports and especially big ones, and then we go out and investigate cases 781 01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:40.559 together. Of course, we don't have a lot of money, and he 782 01:05:40.679 --> 01:05:45.599 does, so he's able to get us out there quicker, such as flying 783 01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:50.760 people around and getting us better equipment, and then also getting some lab analysis 784 01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:56.840 done when necessary. So that's kind of the nature of the Bigelow thing. 785 01:05:56.880 --> 01:06:00.639 And I think we've got Rob back. Hello. Yeah, I've borrowed the 786 01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:09.559 Virginia State Director's telephone, which is to say my wife right, great, 787 01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:12.519 perfect. So one of the things that I've talked about, you know, 788 01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:15.239 when we were while you were gone. Well, actually I want to ask 789 01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:20.000 you last question. I think I asked you about disclosure. Yeah, okay, 790 01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:26.079 I apologize again that that this my testimony. My my conversation is breaking 791 01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:30.920 up there. I hope it's a little better, No problem, Okay. 792 01:06:30.280 --> 01:06:33.360 The lung on the short of it is on disclosure is that I don't think 793 01:06:33.400 --> 01:06:39.920 I can recreate what I just said. Uh. It's basically that the government 794 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:45.440 might not know any more about ultimately the UFO phenomenon than we do. And 795 01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:48.519 they may have more cases eyewitness testimony, they might even have some wreckage, 796 01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:54.199 but it's conceivable that they haven't figured it out either, so that disclosure might 797 01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:58.559 be ultimately disappointing. When it comes, it might be just another question. 798 01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:06.039 And so you know, it's ultimately all I think the government should release everything 799 01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:11.639 it has, and whether that would happen or not, I have no idea. 800 01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:16.440 Yeah, that's kind of the same note that Nick Pope had that he 801 01:07:16.519 --> 01:07:23.400 was happy Britain was finally starting to release their information. He thinks that they're 802 01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:26.639 just as confused as the rest of us, even though they have more and 803 01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:31.480 better cases now that they're letting us in on. But kind of the same 804 01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:38.119 type of perspective. Yeah, And I was struck today by a few speakers 805 01:07:38.119 --> 01:07:42.760 at the INFO conference have said that all these other countries have released UFO their 806 01:07:42.880 --> 01:07:46.800 UFO files. Canada now came forth, and I think it was Denmark and 807 01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:51.000 England and France. But what I would say to them is, don't quite 808 01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:57.719 sell the US short. The Project Glubook documents were released decades ago, and 809 01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:02.280 we've gotten tens of thousands of ages via the Foyer requests. So the US 810 01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:05.920 has released a lot of its files before a lot of these other countries. 811 01:08:06.199 --> 01:08:11.280 But to be honest with you, neither the British, nor the French, 812 01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:16.640 nor the Canadians, nor the Danish have released secret cases from their military pilots 813 01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:21.000 or from their military personnel. So they really haven't done any better than the 814 01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:27.239 US has over the years. They're just getting to the point rereached thirty years 815 01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:32.039 ago. Gotcha. Yeah, and that's the point I've heard others make as 816 01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:36.600 well. What do you think about the energy technology type of suppression that may 817 01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:44.319 be happening related to UFO secrecy. Yeah, again, I'd take kind of 818 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:48.520 a pessimistic view on the energy stuff. I don't actually believe that this government 819 01:08:48.560 --> 01:08:55.399 is worthholding any kind of quote magic unquote technology. I just do not believe 820 01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:59.600 it's there. Otherwise I don't think we'd be spending tens of billions of dollars 821 01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:06.720 on conventional more or less conventional aircraft and rocket technology. And uh, the 822 01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:12.960 infrastructure in this country is built around patroleum energy and nuclear energy and now some 823 01:09:13.239 --> 01:09:17.760 wind energy. But I just don't think that anything is being squelched that have 824 01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:23.079 to do with say, anti matter or anti gravity or anything like that. 825 01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:28.159 It's nice to think that, but it's it's not happening. Mm hmm, 826 01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:34.640 okay. Interesting. So and then you also talked about earlier the stephen Bill 827 01:09:34.760 --> 01:09:40.840 Report and how you significant you felt it was. What do you think is 828 01:09:40.880 --> 01:09:44.520 so important about that report? Well, yeah, I think it's I think 829 01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:48.199 it's vastly important. And there have been a few other UFO cases throughout history 830 01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:56.039 where eyewitness testimony and radar technology, uh and radar returns excuse me, have 831 01:09:56.159 --> 01:10:00.439 have corroborated one another. And that's what the Stephenville Report does. Well, 832 01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:05.199 we have eyewitness testimony of people seeing objects at certain directions at certain times, 833 01:10:05.680 --> 01:10:11.800 and lo and behold, when we get the the FAA tapes and analyze them, 834 01:10:12.359 --> 01:10:15.920 by god, there's unknown objects in almost the same directions and at the 835 01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:20.199 same time as some of these the good witnesses on January eighth, two thousand 836 01:10:20.199 --> 01:10:24.920 and eight said there were objects. So we have a very definite one to 837 01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:29.920 one correspondence with a little bit of room in there for people being vague about 838 01:10:29.920 --> 01:10:34.600 directions, but generally unknown objects were flying around the Stephensville area on January eighth 839 01:10:34.960 --> 01:10:41.920 at the same time as a US Airforce suggets were and an a wax point. 840 01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:46.479 So again, what is going on there? Very very strange. What 841 01:10:46.520 --> 01:10:49.880 do you think of James mcgaha. Did you see his response to that in 842 01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:58.359 the Popular Mechanics. No, I can't say as I have. I've debated 843 01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:02.079 mcgaha on the phone ones. I find the man to be I find the 844 01:11:02.119 --> 01:11:08.880 man to be extremely devoid of any knowledge of the UFO subject. He just 845 01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:12.359 I can't say as I read his report in Popular Science, so I'm not 846 01:11:12.399 --> 01:11:15.600 going to characterize it. But based on what I heard of mcgaha on both 847 01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:21.600 my interview, my debate with him, and TV programs, he knows nothing 848 01:11:21.600 --> 01:11:28.039 about the real UFO phenomenon. He just throws the same canards out and in 849 01:11:28.119 --> 01:11:32.199 the same falsehoods and pseudo science that all the Cellar debunkers do. They don't 850 01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:35.680 want to get down to nuts and bolts because when you do, you can't 851 01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:42.199 explain the phenomenon. Yeah, his response was very short. Actually, his 852 01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:48.079 response was just that radar data isn't reliable. Well, that's that's that's such 853 01:11:48.119 --> 01:11:54.199 a crock of bull hockey that then I can't believe it. If radar data 854 01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:58.760 isn't reliable, and by god, we wouldn't be landing the hundreds and thousands 855 01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:01.600 of aircraft the US airs and at airports all across the USA every day, 856 01:12:02.119 --> 01:12:08.800 and that that that that's just just a dumb statement. Yeah, I thought 857 01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:12.560 it was pretty funny. We use it for weapons systems, we use it 858 01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:17.800 for air safety, but it's not a reliable technology. It's okay, it's 859 01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:23.399 the last resort of a of a person who just doesn't want to admit and 860 01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:29.840 say, I don't know, mm hmm. You know. I wanted to 861 01:12:29.880 --> 01:12:33.680 ask you also about the UFO Research Coalition, how that started up and what 862 01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:39.399 did they do well that that's an excellent question, Alejando. And and you 863 01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:45.319 didn't like this answer. The UFO Research Coalition basically came about as a result 864 01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:50.239 of Robert Bigelow. Now now the UFO Research Coalition is an association of new 865 01:12:50.359 --> 01:12:55.359 fund, the Fund for UFO Research, and the Center for UFO Studies, 866 01:12:55.520 --> 01:13:00.680 the three large organized groups in the United States and back in the nineties, 867 01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:05.079 Robert Bigelow approached us new Fon and Defund and Kufolis and said he had some 868 01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:10.319 money he wanted to spend on the subject, and he wanted us to get 869 01:13:10.359 --> 01:13:15.319 together as an organization, as a formal organization, So we formed the UFO 870 01:13:15.439 --> 01:13:20.640 Research Coalition, which has as its address my home address, but nonetheless we 871 01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:26.560 have that organization in place, and we then received funding from Robert Bigelow back 872 01:13:26.600 --> 01:13:31.920 in the nineteen nineties. So that's how that organization that that's the genesis of 873 01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:38.039 the UFO Research Coalation. Yeah, someone at the earlier asked, and I 874 01:13:38.039 --> 01:13:41.920 talked a little bit about it while you were off the line, but someone 875 01:13:41.920 --> 01:13:46.000 in the chat had asked about Bigelow and with MUFON and what do you feel 876 01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:51.199 Bigelow's interest is. Well, well, mister Bigelow has has a very sincere 877 01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:57.600 interest in the UFO subject. I recall reading a paper he wrote once he 878 01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:00.000 had some kind of a UFO experience, a fighting of some type. I 879 01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:04.520 believe it was back in the nineteen fifties, and and that interest in UFOs 880 01:14:04.520 --> 01:14:09.359 has never left him, just like all the rest of us who get involved 881 01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:13.159 in this subject for life. So he really does want to know what's going 882 01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:18.479 on with with the UFO subjects, and he's also interested in allied subjects like, 883 01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:28.079 for example, cattle mutilations and after death survival, survival of the consciousness, 884 01:14:28.119 --> 01:14:30.479 this type of thing. He has interests in sort of a range of 885 01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:36.199 of of other phenomena in addition to UFOs. But I do believe it's genuine 886 01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:41.399 and he wants to now use his money to try to see if he can 887 01:14:41.880 --> 01:14:46.319 weasel out some secrets. Yeah, someone asked in the chat, the same 888 01:14:46.359 --> 01:14:54.960 gentleman who asked before could Betty Paul Robinson asked about media exposure? Couldn't he 889 01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:59.920 get some major media exposure? But it seems like throughout his years of being 890 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:03.600 involved with these fields, he doesn't seem to be too interested in media exposure, 891 01:15:03.640 --> 01:15:12.560 but looking for a real data or information. Yeah, Robert bigelows, 892 01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:15.039 And he isn't indus just for the attention he could probably get enough. He 893 01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:18.560 gets enough attention with his big o' aerospace company as it is, probably, 894 01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:24.199 but he's very averse to having photographs of him taken, or at least he 895 01:15:24.359 --> 01:15:28.760 was back then, and he rarely rarely grants an interview to the press, 896 01:15:29.039 --> 01:15:33.560 even on his space station projects, and the same applies to his UFO activities. 897 01:15:33.960 --> 01:15:38.079 If there's going to be an interview with Robert Bigelow, it's going to 898 01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:42.359 be only very rarely, and a lot of times he'll have the people that 899 01:15:42.439 --> 01:15:45.119 are working for him, say at nid's callin kellaher or someone like that, 900 01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:49.600 give a paper or speak to the press on his behalf. He's very reticent 901 01:15:50.920 --> 01:15:56.920 to really get involved in the media. Mm hmmm. And you mentioned NIDS 902 01:15:56.920 --> 01:16:00.720 and that's a good example with what the National instit of Discovery Science is that 903 01:16:00.800 --> 01:16:05.279 he funded and all the work they did, they really didn't have a press 904 01:16:05.319 --> 01:16:10.239 section where they got out to the press. They wrote some papers that got 905 01:16:10.239 --> 01:16:14.520 out to people. The biggest media thing they had was George Knapp's book The 906 01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:19.479 Skinwalker about the Skinwalker Ranch, which I definitely encourage anybody to check out who 907 01:16:19.600 --> 01:16:25.000 hasn't, or you could actually go to move on dot com and order some 908 01:16:25.079 --> 01:16:30.479 of his talks, his DVDs from symposiums in the past, George Knaptos, 909 01:16:30.680 --> 01:16:36.199 which just incredible type of stuff. Yeah, you know, you're right there. 910 01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:41.119 They released some information on their website when it's had a website, they 911 01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:45.840 may still have one archived, but I highly recommend the Hunt for the Skinwalker 912 01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:51.439 book, especially the last few chapters in that book are completely mind expanding and 913 01:16:51.560 --> 01:16:59.399 really do offer some clues as to how humanity and how science might approach a 914 01:16:59.439 --> 01:17:04.279 subject UFOs that's kind of seems to be a verse to too much publicity. 915 01:17:04.279 --> 01:17:08.319 If you if you put too much instruments there, the subject vanishes. But 916 01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:12.399 there's some clues in that book as to the next step for looking into this 917 01:17:12.520 --> 01:17:16.399 subject, and I found it to be a very valuable read, let me 918 01:17:16.439 --> 01:17:20.720 put it that way, m hm. And I think that's kind of what 919 01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:25.600 my next topic was going to be, is next steps in looking into the 920 01:17:25.720 --> 01:17:33.000 subjects. What do you see as the near future and this arena? Yeah, 921 01:17:33.039 --> 01:17:36.640 that there's only only one there's only one course that I see, Alejandro, 922 01:17:38.039 --> 01:17:43.000 and it's basically, we have got to get mainstream science involved in looking 923 01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:47.720 into UFO reports and and and how one does that, I don't know, 924 01:17:48.359 --> 01:17:54.720 but we I have some clues, but we have got to first show the 925 01:17:54.840 --> 01:17:59.880 scientists like we did forty years ago, that we have an ongoing phenomenon and 926 01:18:00.560 --> 01:18:03.359 people who are looking into things that happened in the nineteen fifties that's all well 927 01:18:03.359 --> 01:18:08.439 and good, and I find it to be extremely interesting, but that doesn't 928 01:18:08.479 --> 01:18:13.399 convince today's scientists. They want to know what happened yesterday in the UFO phenomenon. 929 01:18:13.760 --> 01:18:16.720 So if we can get good cases to them and to show that something 930 01:18:16.760 --> 01:18:23.039 puzzling is still happening, and somehow raise some money in the process that we 931 01:18:23.079 --> 01:18:27.359 can then farm back into the scientific field, I think we'll start making strides 932 01:18:27.399 --> 01:18:31.560 toward understanding this phenomenon because it's going to be the scientists, with their laboratories 933 01:18:31.560 --> 01:18:35.920 and instruments and time, who are going to unravel this. Unfortunately, it's 934 01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:40.760 not going to be you or me, or Bruce mcabey or John Schusler. 935 01:18:41.039 --> 01:18:43.880 We're only the John the Baptists. You know, We're only the John the 936 01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:49.439 Baptists. Hi gotch and I agree with that one hundred percent. You know 937 01:18:49.560 --> 01:19:00.039 that really the scientists are who the media and the populace listens to. You 938 01:19:00.079 --> 01:19:08.000 know, Convincing the populace can help convince others, but really, population isn't 939 01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:12.720 going to be able to convence a major institution to open up some sort of 940 01:19:12.720 --> 01:19:18.119 investigation. The scientists will. And I find that it does seem to be 941 01:19:18.159 --> 01:19:24.600 more and more that scientists are interested. Oh well, I hope so. 942 01:19:24.840 --> 01:19:27.960 I don't see a big trend in that area, and I don't see them 943 01:19:28.039 --> 01:19:31.279 Washington jump into the water. But I think that that's what you found. 944 01:19:31.840 --> 01:19:35.279 Part of our goal is to educate the public, and we have got to 945 01:19:35.319 --> 01:19:42.159 get the word out there about these good cases. And that's all I can 946 01:19:42.199 --> 01:19:44.439 say on that. You know, We've just got to get the word out 947 01:19:45.560 --> 01:19:49.039 mm hmm. Yeah. And I'm trumpident if the scientists did get involved and 948 01:19:49.079 --> 01:19:53.039 do some good research, and I think you are too, that they would 949 01:19:53.079 --> 01:19:58.039 find something there. Yeah, well, that's no doubt true. We've got 950 01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:01.920 to unravel and roll back forty years of ridicule into the subject, and that's 951 01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:04.439 not going to be an easy thing to do. We have to unlearn them 952 01:20:04.439 --> 01:20:10.960 in all these years that they've been going down the Content Committee road of there 953 01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:15.359 being no scientific paydirt in UFOs. We have to get them to look anew 954 01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:18.359 at the subject that there is indeed something going on here and it may not 955 01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:24.079 give us an immediate paydirt on technology, but it will give us an insight 956 01:20:24.159 --> 01:20:31.159 into what might be happening to us visa vis and other intelligence. Yeah, 957 01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:39.399 do you hear kind of changing the subject a bit because there's a some more 958 01:20:39.560 --> 01:20:44.520 chat in the chat room. And I'm sure this is something you face because 959 01:20:44.520 --> 01:20:48.079 it's something you know. I think we all run across people who theorize that 960 01:20:48.279 --> 01:20:55.319 the extraterrestrials are demons. Yes, I haven't counted that thought, that that 961 01:20:55.840 --> 01:21:00.439 idea a lot. I think that I just cannot proceed along those lines. 962 01:21:00.920 --> 01:21:05.680 Uh, demons is a is an aspect of religion, and and and religion 963 01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:13.279 isn't science. It's I I'm a religious man, but but but in in 964 01:21:13.279 --> 01:21:17.720 in in religion, it doesn't follow the rules of science. So almost anything 965 01:21:17.800 --> 01:21:23.640 is possible. It's the supernatural. Almost anything is possible. So we we 966 01:21:23.640 --> 01:21:26.920 we I don't think we can proceed at all if we have to assume that 967 01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:30.439 it's that it's it's demons. We've got to assume that we're dealing with uh, 968 01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:35.840 a culture, a technology that we can use science to understand. Demons 969 01:21:36.119 --> 01:21:40.079 are beyond science, and we might as well just throw up our hands and 970 01:21:40.119 --> 01:21:42.760 I'll go back to, you know, to doing other things we want to 971 01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:49.000 do. Right Unfortunately, how how I feel about that? Mm hmm, 972 01:21:50.600 --> 01:21:54.920 Okay, So what I was gonna say if we lose this, if we 973 01:21:55.039 --> 01:22:00.439 lose the signal, uh, the the Virginia State Director is arding up for 974 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:02.199 Carnow WHI she's going to be driving off and I'm still on the telephone. 975 01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:06.800 But so hope they just got tired of waiting. But no, nonetheless, 976 01:22:06.840 --> 01:22:12.159 I apologize if my signalship break up as we're going through Baltimore. Well, 977 01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:19.000 we're almost done. Tell that hasty Virginia State director give you a couple of 978 01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:23.159 minutes. Yeah, she's she's tolerant about that. And I also, I 979 01:22:23.239 --> 01:22:28.560 might say, also have another renowned UFO research in my car, Antonio Juneus. 980 01:22:29.039 --> 01:22:33.239 So they're all here at this conference this weekend trying to unravel what's going 981 01:22:33.279 --> 01:22:39.600 on with UFOs. Yeah, well great, you know, thanks for joining, 982 01:22:39.640 --> 01:22:42.640 and thanks for taking some time in the middle of your conference too, 983 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:45.680 because I know those are a lot of work. There's a lot of a 984 01:22:45.720 --> 01:22:49.079 lot of networking that's great to do, a lot of meeting and talking with 985 01:22:49.119 --> 01:22:55.840 some friends or some people you admire and exchanging some wonderful ideas. So thanks 986 01:22:55.840 --> 01:23:00.560 for taking time out to do that. What are some things that you're have 987 01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:04.760 learning out there at the conference? Well, you know, I am at 988 01:23:04.800 --> 01:23:09.000 the at the INFO conference, one learns a lot of things in addition to 989 01:23:09.199 --> 01:23:14.439 UFOs. UH. The UFO talks came from Bud Hopkins who gave an overview 990 01:23:14.520 --> 01:23:18.479 on the abduction of phenomenon, and the other UFO segment will come from on 991 01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:26.319 myself tomorrow morning when I talk about Stephenville and and they have them New find 992 01:23:26.319 --> 01:23:30.119 initiative with Robert Bigelow. So in the course of being an INFO one learns 993 01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:38.119 about uh for for example, freemasonry or cryptozoology, this type thing, and 994 01:23:38.760 --> 01:23:42.560 so yeah, I've learned some kind of interesting things in those areas. Mm 995 01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:46.359 hmmm. Do you see some similarities with this phenomena and some of those others 996 01:23:46.359 --> 01:23:51.520 that they talk about there? Yes, they sure do, especially in cryptos 997 01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:57.520 zoology where we're talking about strange animals. UH. That that field is facing 998 01:23:57.560 --> 01:24:00.560 the same kind of ridicule and they have the same kind of evidence, largely 999 01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:04.039 anecdotal, that the UFO field has. So yeah, they face a lot 1000 01:24:04.079 --> 01:24:09.039 of the same issues, only they're not as well known. They even are 1001 01:24:09.720 --> 01:24:14.119 further back in the public education arena than we are, and we're not very 1002 01:24:14.119 --> 01:24:18.880 far ahead, right, I know, they really struggle in that arena, 1003 01:24:19.800 --> 01:24:25.199 But so likeily we get some attention, Yeah, we sure do, and 1004 01:24:25.199 --> 01:24:28.960 and that there are a bunch of mysteries out there. And it never fails 1005 01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:33.279 to remind me that there's the world is that there's more unknown than knowing things 1006 01:24:33.279 --> 01:24:35.680 in the world. We think we know a lot, but what we really 1007 01:24:35.720 --> 01:24:41.520 are just scratching the surface of what we know. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, 1008 01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:45.800 it becaves it's a good reason to keep pushing ahead. Yeah, I 1009 01:24:45.800 --> 01:24:49.600 agree. I think it's fortunately because things might get kind of bland if we 1010 01:24:49.680 --> 01:24:53.560 figure it all out. Yeah, I think it's gonna be a long time 1011 01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:58.359 before we do that, Alejandro. If ever, right, if that is 1012 01:24:58.439 --> 01:25:03.119 even what we're here to do, that's right, Democrats, democratic communists in 1013 01:25:03.159 --> 01:25:06.359 there is talking, well, everybody's talking a lot of philosophy in the chat 1014 01:25:06.439 --> 01:25:12.359 room, and that's kind of the The root of philosophy is knowledge and can 1015 01:25:12.439 --> 01:25:16.000 we even obtain knowledge? Yeah, yeah, you're one hundred percent right. 1016 01:25:16.039 --> 01:25:19.479 But we have a few tools to do that. And one of those tools 1017 01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:24.720 is the scientific method. And I keep coming back to that because it's going 1018 01:25:24.800 --> 01:25:29.960 to be the scientific method that really gives us answers, not speculation or endless 1019 01:25:30.239 --> 01:25:33.479 and endless philosophizing about the subject, but somebody ultimately has to put something on 1020 01:25:33.520 --> 01:25:39.159 a laboratory table or has to go out into the field and actually do some 1021 01:25:39.319 --> 01:25:44.159 physical work on samples. And this is what's going to give us and give 1022 01:25:44.239 --> 01:25:46.119 us our answers. They have to point antennae at the sky, and they 1023 01:25:46.119 --> 01:25:53.399 have to take spectrographic pictures of UFOs if and when they can. And I'm 1024 01:25:53.680 --> 01:25:58.840 hopeful, hopeful that if such an approach is followed, we will indeed find 1025 01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:02.199 out what's at least get few answers to what's going on. Yeah, and 1026 01:26:02.279 --> 01:26:06.159 I'm in complete agreeance. I mean, I'm a fan of philosophy, but 1027 01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:12.039 I'm a student of psychology for that same reason to put the scientific method to 1028 01:26:12.159 --> 01:26:15.720 some of these ideas to actually figure out much more about the nature of ourselves 1029 01:26:15.760 --> 01:26:21.399 and everything else around us. And that's why I wholeheartedly agree with the application 1030 01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:27.199 of the scientific method and if it's done in the manner it should be. 1031 01:26:27.319 --> 01:26:30.439 And not to say that the people who are trying to do it aren't doing 1032 01:26:30.479 --> 01:26:36.840 it well all of the time. It's just not having the resources. Yeah, 1033 01:26:36.840 --> 01:26:42.680 you're exactly right. You're exactly right. So that's exciting about the big 1034 01:26:42.680 --> 01:26:47.720 old thing, and hopefully we can get some of these major institutions involved in 1035 01:26:47.800 --> 01:26:53.640 putting their efforts towards it as well. Well, yeah, I don't think 1036 01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:57.720 the Big Old Thing is something we can count on for for a long time. 1037 01:26:58.840 --> 01:27:00.399 Maybe I hope we can count on it for at least a year. 1038 01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:05.399 But but but I hope it's going to be sort of something that does indeed 1039 01:27:05.479 --> 01:27:09.479 cause other institutions to get involved, to see that we can do good work 1040 01:27:09.720 --> 01:27:13.760 and that they will too come on board once once mister Bigelow gets the information 1041 01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:17.319 he needs and no longer really has need for any new cases, we've really 1042 01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:21.039 got to build on that. And this is this is a chance to get 1043 01:27:21.039 --> 01:27:26.600 in on the ground floor from U FOUND, to show that put us it's 1044 01:27:26.640 --> 01:27:29.159 money behind its mouth, as it were, that we can do good case 1045 01:27:29.199 --> 01:27:33.760 work, and that the UFO subject has some information you can glean once you 1046 01:27:33.840 --> 01:27:39.279 get out there in the field. Yeah, so everybody send us your report, 1047 01:27:39.479 --> 01:27:43.159 you know, if you're seeing something, especially if you see something land 1048 01:27:43.840 --> 01:27:47.479 or if you have some physical trace evidence from perhaps that's what I think is 1049 01:27:47.479 --> 01:27:50.800 going to be interesting. I've seen cases, you know, every people have 1050 01:27:50.840 --> 01:27:57.760 seen scoop marks. I've seen these scoop marks, fluoresce or other physical evidence 1051 01:27:57.800 --> 01:28:00.960 from from abduction cases and anything you have. Let us know. We're used 1052 01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:04.600 to dealing with abductees. We know how to keep you anonymous, we know 1053 01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:14.000 how to treat people with this issue. But we're pretty much out of time. 1054 01:28:14.439 --> 01:28:17.279 So thank you very much for being on the show. Rob always a 1055 01:28:17.359 --> 01:28:23.000 lot of fun talking to you. Oh Alejandro, it's been it's been just 1056 01:28:23.039 --> 01:28:25.960 a pleasure, and I wish we had three or four more hours, and 1057 01:28:26.079 --> 01:28:28.920 I hope you will ask me to be on again, but it's been a 1058 01:28:28.960 --> 01:28:34.479 complete enjoyment and there's better than doing this great. Well, then I will 1059 01:28:34.479 --> 01:28:39.720 have you on again. And for next week, I have certainly a very 1060 01:28:39.760 --> 01:28:44.680 interesting person at a new time. We're going to do Thursday at six pm 1061 01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:48.920 Mountain time instead of the normal Saturday time. I'm going to have Clifford Stone, 1062 01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:55.800 who is a Roswell resident who claims to have been part of an army 1063 01:28:55.840 --> 01:29:00.239 crew who recovered crashed UFOs, so we'll have them talk about that. And 1064 01:29:00.279 --> 01:29:08.239 he also does a lot of freedom of information request where he gets information on 1065 01:29:08.760 --> 01:29:12.920 official documents related to uf fos, so we'll talk a lot about that. 1066 01:29:13.079 --> 01:29:16.640 Everybody come back because I know people have a lot of questions for Clifford. 1067 01:29:16.680 --> 01:29:21.079 Those are some pretty extraordinary claims that he has, so it'll be really interesting 1068 01:29:21.119 --> 01:29:25.000 to see what he says. Sorry, Moe, don't worry. You'll be 1069 01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:30.399 able to listen later if you can't come in live. But thanks for being 1070 01:29:30.439 --> 01:29:35.800 here. We'll talk to everybody again and join me on UPHO not Radio tomorrow 1071 01:29:35.880 --> 01:30:13.119 night. On blog Talk, I'll be giving some more UFO updates. I 1072 01:30:13.279 --> 01:30:23.800 as a dooms staff and as a standum staff and Don as by a stack 1073 01:30:23.880 --> 01:30:59.840 ads can double steps steps a step, Dana a step back a step mmm 1074 01:31:23.520 --> 01:32:16.159 stop stop stock and