WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.559 Hey, there are folks, skeptics and non skeptics alike. Abuse survivor support 2 00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:09.320 groups in Western Australia have sounded an alarm regarding the frequent use of permanent stays 3 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:14.320 by churches and institution to halt claims for justice by survivors of sexual abuse. 4 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:19.000 These tactics, which prevent fair trials, are being scrutinized by the Western Australia 5 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:24.879 Parliament as it explores barriers to justice for survivor Advocacy groups argue that permanent stays 6 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:30.920 are disproportionately applied, especially in cases involving deceased perpetrators or institutions that fail to 7 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:36.840 investigate abuse allegations properly. They urge legislative limits on stay applications, emphasizing the 8 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:42.079 need to prevent institutions from exploiting these delays to the detriment of survivor's quest for 9 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:47.759 justice. This article is entitled Bids for Sexual abuse justice in Western Australia quashed 10 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:52.600 by permanent stay tactics. Inquiry told from the Guardian by Christopher Nass, published 11 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.159 September eleventh, twenty twenty three. Kelly, I'd love to get your thoughts 12 00:00:56.200 --> 00:01:00.000 on that opening, Oh, you know, the whole ideas dishonest to me. 13 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:06.359 I have a hard time doing a child abuse stories, so forgive me 14 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:11.040 if I'm a little nervous doing this one. I understand the original intent of 15 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:15.719 the stays, but it seems like it's being abused now. And I don't 16 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:19.480 pretend to understand US law. I don't even play a lawyer on TV and 17 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:25.959 I and so to understand Australian law. And I was hoping that we had 18 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:29.719 somebody here that knew law a little bit better than we do. Unfortunately that 19 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:34.359 didn't make it. But it just seems like the people who are using these 20 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:40.519 stays are using them in a dishonest way to basically wave a magic wand and 21 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:44.159 make the whole lawsuit go away. And it doesn't seem right to me. 22 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:48.879 It seems like all you all these people would have to do is just magically 23 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:53.599 lose their records all of a sudden, you know, and boom they're safe. 24 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:56.519 It Just like I said, it just seems completely dishonest to me. 25 00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:59.640 I don't know how something like this could happen. Infandel, do you have 26 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:01.359 any thing you want to follow up with? Well, you know, I 27 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:06.640 have to say that in this recurring nightmare because you know, as you know, 28 00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:08.919 we've covered this on more than one occasion, and we'll cover it many 29 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:14.159 more. Here we see sexual assault victims by church clergy, many of them 30 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:17.240 having to deal with decades of guilt, shame, self harm and victim blaming, 31 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:22.599 are once again being victimized by the Catholic Church. You know what's really 32 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:25.199 odd is the case that gives them this shield, The one that caused the 33 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:30.680 initial stay, was a horror show within itself. The court documents showed that 34 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:36.319 the church was aware of abuse complaints against the priests long before and after the 35 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:42.000 complainant was abused, but of course in typical protect the protect the priests Catholic 36 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:45.840 mode. But this turd was moved between four parishes. Church records show he 37 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:50.159 had complaints sexual abuse complaints in all four of them. The church's motives are 38 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.240 to protect their bottom line, that's clear, not people, you know, 39 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:58.439 not those who have suffered under their tacitly approved sexual assault club. If they're 40 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:00.719 if they really wanted to make a change, it doesn't matter what they're what 41 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:05.240 legality they could hide behind, they would do what's right. Now you have 42 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:09.319 another case where France's cable was already convicted of abusing twenty four children. The 43 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:14.919 church delayed the case for over two years, waiting for their child rapists to 44 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:16.840 die, and when he did, they claimed they're unable to mount a proper 45 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:21.560 defense without them. Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of defense you could 46 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.960 expect with them already having twenty four convictions. Once again, they're hiding behind 47 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:29.599 a legality. They want to do what's right, then nothing is stopping them 48 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:32.879 from doing that. You know, I saw this Ross Coffelo, he's represented 49 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:37.560 the abuse victims of a Catholic church for the last thirteen years, saying they're 50 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:39.680 using this as a threat and just trying to reduce the amount of damages. 51 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:43.080 You know, if you don't accept this sort of money, we'll put a 52 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.560 state put a stale application in. This is just mob Boss one oh one. 53 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:52.840 The crime syndicate we know as a Catholic church has covered up decades long 54 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:57.080 clergy abuse and now they're telling the victims they waited too long. You know, 55 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.240 the average weight is twenty two years between the mission of the crime and 56 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:04.879 being reported. In these Catholic Church victims. This is nothing less than abusing 57 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:10.080 them all over again. Now we know, the Catholic Church knows a lot 58 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:15.159 about covering up crimes. It really is unfortunate their clergy has a problem keeping 59 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:17.759 themselves covered up. It's disgusting. Jimmy, what do you have? Yeah, 60 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:21.680 yeah, no, I think that's great. So I was a little 61 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:26.680 torn about how I was going to go about speaking about this topic, because 62 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:30.879 you know, as always, we prepare for the show, and we prepare 63 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:32.680 for the recording, and we come up with a lot of good data, 64 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:35.759 and we want to take breaks and kind of break up the conversation. But 65 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.240 I kind of feel like I'm at a point where I'm just gonna let loose 66 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:42.959 for a second and I'm gonna go on a little bit of a tirade. 67 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:44.920 And I never do this, but I'm gonna give a little bit of a 68 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:46.720 tirade, and I'm going to get back to you, okay, because you 69 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:50.399 know, I do the show twice a month and we're always talking about this, 70 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:54.839 and so I just want to start off by this old adage that absolute 71 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:58.800 power corrupts absolutely an environment in which the clergy are at the top of the 72 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.839 food chain, existing under a system in which they face no punishment for their 73 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:06.639 transgressions breeds the most treacherous, hypocritical, and downright despicable attempts to cling to 74 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:12.519 power rather than do what is right. Religious institutions claim the moral high ground, 75 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.920 but their actions and their histories are anything but. In fact, these 76 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:19.759 institutions are characteristic of the most heinous of offenses known to human kind, those 77 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:25.639 which target children in a sexual manner. At that Catholicism is not alone in 78 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:30.519 these injustices. The Hindu and Muslim religions also have histories of child sexual abuse 79 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.000 which continue to permeate their societies. And for some reason, no matter the 80 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.040 culture, no matter the part of the world we hail from, our societies 81 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:41.079 tend to grant clemency to religion seemingly for no good reason. And why so 82 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:45.839 we've uncovered that a legal stay has been morphed by the church, and this 83 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.800 happening in Australia. A legal stay, according to Australian law, a stay 84 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:54.160 of proceeding is a legal term that refers to a temporary halt or suspension of 85 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:57.399 a court case. The stay can be ordered by the court or requested by 86 00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:00.839 one of the parties involved in the case. It essentially puts the case on 87 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:04.720 hold, effectively delaying any further legal proceedings until the stay is lift. There 88 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:09.879 are various reasons why a stay of proceedings may be granted, including to allow 89 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:14.439 time for negotiations, to give parties time to gather evidence, or to wait 90 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:16.680 on a decision in a related case. Ultimately, the stay of proceedings can 91 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:21.680 provide parties with some breathing room to reassess their positions and potentially reach a resolution 92 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:27.480 without the need for further litigation, and this I think is counterproductive to the 93 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.680 idea of justice. In fact, a legal stay, in my opinion, 94 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:33.759 is an oxymoron, and what we practice here in American society is not much 95 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:38.279 different than what's happening in Australia. And so, according to our legal system, 96 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:42.560 a ruling by the court to stop or suspend a proceeding or trial temporary, 97 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:46.800 temporarily, or indefinitely. A court may later lift the stay and continue 98 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.560 the proceedings. Some stays are automatic, but others are up to judicial discretion, 99 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:54.560 usually the pendency of an appeal YadA, YadA, YadA. Other parties 100 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:58.040 will not be harmed, the public interest will be served by granting the stay. 101 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:00.639 I don't see how that's possible or out how any of this is relevant 102 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:03.519 or should be considered in any case, if there's a crime to be answered 103 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:08.160 for or an appeal to be heard, then they should be answered and heard 104 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:13.480 and not paused due to extenuous, extenuating external circumstances. And I'm going to 105 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:16.439 pause there before I continue, because I want to give you guys a chance 106 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:20.040 to respond. I mean, right here, you know, it seems like 107 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:25.439 the churches are not only masters of protecting each other from the law, but 108 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:29.439 they are masters covering up or excuse me, covering up their own crimes. 109 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:33.240 But also masters are protecting each other so anyway and manipulating the law. So 110 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.720 I'm sorry I digress a little bit there. But Kelly, what do you 111 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:40.519 have to say so far about all that? You know? I'm I'm glad 112 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.759 you had a lot to say, because, like I said, this topic 113 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.240 always kind of gets to me a little bit. I get a little nervous 114 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:50.000 energy about it, and the more everybody else talks about it, the better 115 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:57.639 if I am about it. But I'm wondering if couldn't companies or churches or 116 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:03.920 whatever organizations just prevent this whole problem of sex abuse. I'm sorry, Like 117 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.879 I said, I get a little upset about these sex abuse cases in the 118 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:11.160 future just by Hey, you know, it's just our common practice. We 119 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:15.360 only save records for twenty years, and we don't have the room restore all 120 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.600 this. We just destroy them after twenty years. Is there something preventing that 121 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.120 from happening? I mean, I'm not sure. And I know how in 122 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:26.720 the United States that churches don't have to open up their records, so it's 123 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:31.720 kind of except like if they get warrants and stuff. So if they're not 124 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:37.799 showing open books, couldn't this just be like an open invitation to keep doing 125 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.519 sexual abuse and not being caught with it. It just kind of blows me 126 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.480 away. And now again, I'm not in any way an expert in the 127 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.360 law. I can't. I can't even guess what Australians are thinking down there 128 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:52.559 and down there and the antipities walking upside down, so all the brains rushing 129 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.279 through their heads. I don't, you know. I just like saying antipities. 130 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:01.039 I had to get that in there, but I have a hard time 131 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:03.120 putting my head in that place. But you know, I mean, Australia 132 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.679 was largely populated with criminals from Great Britain, of course, because the Thirteen 133 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:11.080 Colonies won their independence and they couldn't send the criminals here anymore, so they 134 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:16.000 started sending them there. But you would think that they'd be a little more 135 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.279 careful with the law. And maybe that's the problem. Maybe they're just made 136 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:22.399 it too easy to skirt around the law. And because they were all criminals, 137 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:26.320 criminals, maybe I should be living there. I'm not sure they let 138 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.840 people like me into the country anymore, though, I'm not do they stop 139 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:35.519 letting petty criminals into Nostar? Does anybody know? You know that I don't 140 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.600 know, but I have to say that it's it's it's quite a quite a 141 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.519 cycle. And we see this time and again, this rents and repeat of 142 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.840 hiding, hiding, the hiding the criminal by the Catholic Church. And you 143 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.279 know, I think you hit a really valid point, Jimmy, because the 144 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:54.679 truth is is that it's an oxymron to say a stay uh, you know, 145 00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:00.519 when you're when you're talking about justice, because you're doing quite the you're 146 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.759 delaying. Then you're trying to obuskate, not to make something easier. And 147 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.559 the truth is is that if the Catholic Church wanted to show that they wanted 148 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:15.240 to step past this and and turn a new leaf. First, there would 149 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:20.159 be the requirement of admitting that there were some huge mistakes and not just saying, 150 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:22.559 oh, we made some mistakes and pretending everything's fine now. But there's 151 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:28.120 a reason why they're paying over three hundred million dollars a year defending child predators. 152 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.799 Right now, well, maybe it's time to say, you know, 153 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.399 we don't have the records to prove that you were molested by this person, 154 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:41.759 and we can't interview them anymore because well they're dead because we delayed it. 155 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:46.279 No, just realize, yeah, we've made some serious mistakes, and maybe 156 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:50.399 it's time to air on the side of the victim rather than saying, let's 157 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:54.399 protect our bottom line. Now we know that's not going to happen. I'm 158 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.559 I'm not going to pretend that's something that's really going to happen. And that's 159 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:05.000 why you talked about about how things should proceed and not stay and get tied 160 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:09.559 up forever. And the legal aspect does count so much because the victims deserve 161 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:13.720 something. Does it take away what happened? Of course not, But does 162 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:20.559 that mean people shouldn't bear responsibility for hiding these people for now generations, So 163 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:22.480 no, they need to pay the price. And I know I mentioned it 164 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.759 here before, Jimmy, you said that, you know other It's not something 165 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.639 limited to just the Catholic church. My my brother in law brings and sits 166 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.399 his church, his family's ass down in front of a preacher who's facing two 167 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:41.120 cases of sexual assault against a minitor repeatedly sexually assaulting, and he's giving his 168 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:45.519 time, money, effort and putting his family in front of that person. 169 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:48.159 I don't know how that happened, but I would say that if you're a 170 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.679 Catholic, and I know there's some good Catholic people, and please don't misunderstand 171 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:58.399 that we're saying anything at all about you being a bad person. But what 172 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:03.320 we are saying is look around, realize what you are aligning yourself with, 173 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.840 because you are being aligned with these people, and quit supporting them. Quit 174 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:11.960 being a pawn in their game because they don't care about you any more than 175 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:15.879 they care about the victims. And once again, Jimmy, no reason to 176 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.919 cry about a rant or complaint or apologize about a rant you made, because 177 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.840 I agree with every word of it and would have a menu if that would 178 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:28.279 have been acceptable On a secular show. But I'm with you all the way. 179 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.559 So what else do you have to say, Jemmy, Yeah, I 180 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.519 appreciate that, and uh well, I mean there's always so much to say 181 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:37.519 here. You're right, though, I do want to harp on something. 182 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:41.679 You know, there are very good religious people out there, and I like 183 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:46.039 the old adage or the saying that we have frequently on our shows. You 184 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:48.759 know, hey, we don't hate you, We're just not convinced, right. 185 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.639 I don't hate any any people who or anybody who becomes a victim to 186 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.639 this line of thinking. But this is the kind of conversation that we need 187 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:01.000 to keep having because these priests, right, their brainwashed their entire lives. 188 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:05.320 Then they find themselves in a system where even if they disagree with it, 189 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:09.159 they have no way out. And that's why I think the Clergy Project is 190 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.399 such a great, great tool for people who find themselves in this scenario. 191 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.799 But honestly, a lot of people just find themselves stuck in this system and 192 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:22.759 if they came forward, if they actually acknowledge the atrocities that they were responsible 193 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.480 for, it might all fall apart and then they would have nothing. And 194 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.879 like I said in the beginning, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and that is 195 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:35.200 what they want to have. We do need to explain why they're defending religious 196 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.519 child molesters, and those people need to explain why it is that they prioritize 197 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:46.039 this fantasy and magic over common human decency. If it isn't the Taliban abducting 198 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:50.039 children from orphanages to use as concubines, that it's Russians that are kidnapping children 199 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:54.120 from Ukraine or some other atrocity and some other part of the world. Child 200 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:58.039 rape, excuse me, child rape in India has gotten so out of hand 201 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.279 that it's now punishable by death. Honestly, I can't say I disagree, 202 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:05.000 but it's clearly not just an Australian issue and not just an American issue. 203 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.559 It's a global issue. Thirty three states right here in the US are exempt 204 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.919 from the same laws that require teachers, physicians, and psychiatrists from reporting child 205 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:16.200 abuse and infidel I think you mentioned that earlier, but it's called the clergy 206 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:22.360 loophole, and where conversations with religious authorities just happened to be protected from legal 207 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:28.799 disclosure, and that allows things like child moles molestation to keep being perpetrated. 208 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:33.720 A recent investigation into the Illinois Catholic clergy found that four hundred and fifty of 209 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.600 them molested two thousand children between nineteen fifty and twenty twenty one. Similar statistics 210 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.799 exist in Colorado, and I spoke about it a few weeks a few weeks 211 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:46.000 ago, and the Archdiocese of Colorado Springs still employs a repeat abuser, father 212 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.200 William Martinez. In the last eighty years, one hundred and fifty clergy abused 213 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:54.399 six hundred children in Maryland, and a recent investigation into French Catholicism found that 214 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.600 three hundred and thirty three thousand children were abused over the last eighty years. 215 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:01.759 So when will enough be enough? When will people face the facts and knowledge 216 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.600 that they're made up? Gods are not coming, They're not going to fix 217 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.639 this. The religion is fake and it's nothing more than a way for people 218 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.279 that it gives power to to stay in power without being accountable to anyone. 219 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:16.080 And yes, I made a claim the religion is fake. I think these 220 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:20.679 examples serve kind of as proof to that and this oath of celibacy that these 221 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:26.120 clergy take the unchecked power, being unpunished, fabricating this moral high ground that 222 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:31.200 conveniently only fits their needs. Only their needs all work together to create a 223 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.120 situation where the weak and vulnerable become exploited, and we need to stop supporting 224 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.120 them and people need to open their fucking self. That's the rest of my 225 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:41.600 rand. Thank you for letting me break that up into two sections. I 226 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.279 think you guys have helped me hammer home a lot of points that I probably 227 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.200 would have almost forgotten. So Kelly, what do you say? I mean, 228 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.200 where are we at? I'm glad that you were able to be so 229 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.960 eloquent about that because I can't be on this subject. I have a really 230 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.279 hard time talking about it. So I want to thank you both for filling 231 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.320 in for me on that one. I'm always a little nervous talking about this 232 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.879 kind of thing, so I appreciate it. Hey, everybody, we got 233 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:11.240 some great merge. Go to tiny dot ccs slash aca merch. Check out 234 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.080 all the cool swag there, and if you want to hear more from the 235 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:15.039 nonprofits, you can catch it right here.