WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:13.000 Welcome back to this episode of Superhero Ethics, where we are continuing our conversation 2 00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:17.559 about Avatar. It turns out that a three season television show that had massive 3 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:20.879 effects on all of us and is considered one of the most impactful of the 4 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:24.239 last twenty or thirty years, we couldn't really wrap up all of in an 5 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:28.160 hour. We are committed to doing the second half also in only an hour, 6 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:31.120 so we'll do as much as we can. There's a whole lot we're 7 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:34.119 going to put on the table, but that's why I am, and I 8 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:37.200 think Paul Is and possibly Riki going to be back here to talk to you 9 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:41.439 about the live acting show as it's coming out, during which we'll probably talk 10 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:46.799 a lot about the third the animated again. So let's move out to some 11 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:49.000 of the other characters. We're not going to give them quite as much time, 12 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:53.039 but I want to talk for a bit about Soccer because Socca is a 13 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:58.759 character who I do think is very essential to this story, and I think 14 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:03.799 that his sexism misogyny at the beginning of the show is essential because I think 15 00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:11.359 that in you know, misogyny is obviously very real sex and is very real, 16 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.280 and the way that it plays out for him as he is the kind 17 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:18.359 of like the goofy guy, the jokes guy, the geeky guy, but 18 00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:21.680 he's also the one who's the most overtly sexist, you know, specifically saying 19 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:23.920 like, oh, girls can't fight, having this attitude that girls, you 20 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:29.439 know, should be able to fight as good as he is. It is 21 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:33.079 very representative of things that are in our culture at the time that the show 22 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:34.959 came out, and are still very much in our culture at the time that 23 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:40.560 the show is happening now at this new time. They're certainly very prevalent in 24 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:44.799 the sort of card game and geeky worlds that Rieky and I have spent so 25 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:48.319 much time. In my imagination is that they're still very much a part of 26 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:49.920 a lot of martial arts worlds that Paul has been a lot more time in 27 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:57.480 poker and chess. Yeah, very much so. But I remember feeling, 28 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:00.879 even when I watched the show that it was so on the nose, it 29 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:05.719 was so over the top that to me, it felt like to me, 30 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:09.199 the part is one of the great things about his character is that very quickly, 31 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:14.120 in like episode four, Suki kicks his ass, and even by the 32 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:15.520 end of that episode, he's like, Nope, I was wrong. You 33 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:21.800 should train me. And then those attitude never really appear again. And I 34 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.159 think that it's such an important character, and he becomes a very important character, 35 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:28.879 and his respect for women, I think it's really shown. But it 36 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:32.120 felt to me then and I think even more so to me now. I 37 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:35.360 want that plot line there, but I feel like I wanted to be a 38 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:40.560 lot more subtle in terms of just because I sometimes feel when somebody's presented as 39 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:45.919 being sexist or racist or any of those things, part of the point should 40 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:47.960 be for people to examine themselves and wonder if they're doing the same thing, 41 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.960 and if they're so over the top, then it's very easy for people to 42 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:53.919 be like, oh, I'm not racist like that guy, so I must 43 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:57.639 not be racist. What's your take on what you'd want to see from a 44 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:02.159 live action version of Sokka, especially that aspect of him. Hm hmm. 45 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:09.039 I think it's kind of tied. His sexism at the beginning is tied into 46 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:15.960 his feelings about his sister, right, because obviously his sister is a woman, 47 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:20.919 but she is also a bender and he is not. And I think 48 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:24.520 this is also like a key part of his character is that he doesn't have 49 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:30.680 powers like everyone else in the in the crew does, so like it reminds 50 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:35.439 me of, gosh, it's been so long Xander Xander and Buffy the Vampire 51 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:38.439 Slayer. He has a whole episode devoted I think called the Zeppo named after 52 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:45.400 Zeppo Marx as like the secondary character who's like not as important or well known 53 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.800 as everyone else, but gosh darnett, they're here too and they are important. 54 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.479 Is the key as well. Sokka becomes the leader, he comes up 55 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:58.159 with the plan to invade the Fire Nation, so it's like and he also 56 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:02.159 like learns how to sword fight from from a master, but that's part of 57 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:05.520 his journey, is like not only letting go of the sexism, but letting 58 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:11.639 go of his jealousy and his feelings of inadequacy about not being able to bend. 59 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:15.759 So I think they're closely tied together, right, So in that way, 60 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:19.279 when you say that, like Suky defeating him, he kind of needs 61 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:23.240 to feel that he's at least the best of the non vendors, and so 62 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:27.000 another non vendor defeating him in a fight who is a woman, that that 63 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:29.240 kind of is like even more than he can take. Yeah, I think 64 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:33.920 it's all intertwined, like it's it's very hard to separate at all. Yeah, 65 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:40.680 I mean, I do feel like that's that's an important part of Sokka's 66 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.879 character in the show. I think it didn't necessarily have to be, but 67 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.879 that's the choice they made, right, Yeah, you know, I mean, 68 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:51.240 it's a fantasy world, so it's like it doesn't have to be patriarchical, 69 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:56.600 like it's not. It's not. It's inspired by various real world cultures, 70 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:02.040 but it's not meant to be a representation representation of any single or specific 71 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:08.040 cultures really per se. So I think, you know, you could do 72 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:12.959 without that. I think his sense of humor, which they completely excized from 73 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:17.879 the live adaptation, the first one I think, to me, yeah, 74 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:23.439 yeah, there's like there's like call it out several times in the show. 75 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:26.920 They're like, he's the funny one. Like even like I think Zuko mentions 76 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.839 it as well, like as the enemy, like he knows he's the right, 77 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:31.639 he knows that that's the funny one exactly, and so like, I 78 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:36.720 feel like that's an aspect of the character you you really can't remove. But 79 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:42.319 I do think in order to remove the sexism, I think you would have 80 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:46.399 to probably kind of have to remove it from the culture in a way where 81 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:50.680 it feels like the men are the fighters, right and the women look after 82 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.879 the village, kind of like that's that's how they and maybe the hunters and 83 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:58.600 whatever, and that's like that's the culture and like that's that's especially that didn't 84 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:00.639 come up with the sexism on his own. They specifically call out that the 85 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:03.439 men left to go fight, right, and then later granted this is with 86 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.879 the Northern Water tribe, not the southern, but it seems like they're not 87 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:10.560 that different. Katara is told she can't be a bender because she's a woman, 88 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:13.680 so right, yeah, yeah, warrior, like she has to use 89 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:15.680 her bending for for healing, that's right, right, yeah, yeah, 90 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:19.120 yeah, the guy doesn't want to train her, yeah, in that regard, 91 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:21.800 right. Yeah. I think it's all very true, and I think 92 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:25.360 I'm sorry, no, I was just going to say so, I feel 93 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:30.399 like having that in there, I think is good. It's not Zuko's redemption 94 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:32.279 arc. I do view it as like a redemption arc. I mean, 95 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:36.560 it's something he learned from his culture that like we look at as like a 96 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:40.839 negative thing. The way Zuko learned that the Fire Nation is great and should 97 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:45.959 go around conquering everybody, you know, and he unlearns it. But and 98 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.720 but it's like it is quicker and it doesn't have the same struggle and it 99 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:53.680 doesn't have the same but you know, but but I think Riki's right that 100 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:58.920 in terms of kind of coming to peace with his relationship with Katara, because 101 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:02.279 I think he's the older brother, right, but like she kind of like 102 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:08.160 mom's him, you know, So I think there's probably some kind of and 103 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:10.680 he's not a bender, and so like I think there's some kind of feelings 104 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.839 of inadequacy or whatever, and he has to get over all of that and 105 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.199 and mature and he does, and I think he has a nice arc overall, 106 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:21.680 but he definitely, you know, is played like more of a secondary 107 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:26.920 character. So he just doesn't get as much the way Sabine learning to use 108 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:29.399 the dark Saber. You know. I was like, this is cool. 109 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:32.279 I think this episode's great, But like she doesn't get, you know, 110 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:36.519 a whole series to be learning stuff. Socca doesn't get a whole series to 111 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:43.040 be like learning to not be overtly misogynist. You know. He he gets 112 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:46.560 an episode that's that's kind of the way it is with secondary characters. Most 113 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:48.560 of the time, he gets an episode to learn sword fighting as well, 114 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:56.360 which is all That's how a lot of the training in this series is very 115 00:07:56.519 --> 00:08:01.560 rushed. YEA, literally I think spent two days or wasn't only one day 116 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:07.839 to get a sword fight? Yeah. Iiro becomes a bodybuilder. It seems 117 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:11.360 like in a couple of days he might have been in he might have been 118 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:15.040 in there for a while though, I think that's a little less. But 119 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:18.279 that's the seed of the show. Yeah, we had we know, the 120 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:22.360 whole show takes place in six months right there for the maximum three days. 121 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:28.360 Yeah, but I would buy Shredded by Iro as a workout play successful. 122 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.800 I will say, though we were to seeing that, by the way, 123 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:37.159 and live action, do we want that transformation? I'm I mean that's one 124 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.039 of the few casting notes I know, and I'm yes, I want to 125 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:45.080 see that. I want to see to what extent that is nervous about it 126 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:46.960 because I want them to have cast to have your actor not a thin actor 127 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.519 in a fat suit. And I don't know how you could show it without 128 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:52.960 him like being it can just get in shape, you could like Chris Pratt 129 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:58.240 it. Yeah, I've been doing that over the course of filming year. 130 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:05.159 Yeah, yeah, yeah, But here's here's the the heck was I talking 131 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:09.320 about. We're talking about I'm always going to bring it back to Iro, 132 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:11.879 right, and I'm going to bring it back to Ang. So sorry, 133 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:18.559 Matthew, fine, But the point being that the whole show is really showing 134 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:24.320 actually several characters, but especially ag learning a lot of things, but over 135 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.320 a lot of episodes right there, there is a lot of learning that is 136 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:33.159 like almost the theme of the show is like, you know, learning and 137 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:39.120 acquiring skills and at the same time learning how one should use those skills or 138 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:43.080 how how do you choose to use those skills, and so Aang and then 139 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:48.360 Katara also in terms of pursuing her water bending, they get they get a 140 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:52.240 lot of little bits along the way where you can see sort of incremental progress. 141 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:56.240 I mean, Ang's already kind of like an airbending master at the beginning, 142 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.559 right, but like he's got to pick up these other bending skills, 143 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.840 and katar is more of a water bending novice, and she's really developing that 144 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:05.919 skill over three seasons. So I think they really get the full you know, 145 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.600 Ezra Bridger treatment. Whereas you know, Sokka gets more of a Sabine 146 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.399 Wren. Yeah, I just going back to the main question. Yeah, 147 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.639 I think I think we're mostly in agreement to mean mostly Like, I don't 148 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:20.120 think it would be a good idea to get rid of it entirely. I 149 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.679 would be totally okay if his sexism is more subtle but also still changes pretty 150 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.159 fast, you know, early on. Yeah, if they would have treated 151 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.679 a little differently for live action, I think that's fine. But I think 152 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:39.759 completely writing it out would maybe be like, I don't know, it would 153 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:45.000 be better than writing out as humor. I'll I'll just say that, especially 154 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:48.080 because in some ways he is the character who has I think, as you 155 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.960 know, this is not In some ways this is fully true. He is 156 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.679 by far the character who gets the most romantic plot development we have, like 157 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.399 the Katana Aang thing, which a lot of people have strong feelings about myself 158 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.639 included, and that kind of wraps up very quickly at the very end, 159 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.240 but we have he has to pronounced romances, even to the point where the 160 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:13.320 end of one stops him from moving forward with the second until he's had time 161 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:15.840 to heal. In a way I think is really beautiful portrayed that's rough, 162 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:22.519 buddy. Yes, do you think do you think they meant that to be 163 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.519 Zuko is just really awkward at giving giving help to people and doesn't know what 164 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:28.320 to say, or do you think they meant that to be just like, 165 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.879 no, that's a that's a legit thing to say when your friend says something 166 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:37.039 horrible. I don't know. Yeah, but it works. Yeah, I 167 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:43.919 don't know about Zuko says this after literally Soaka has said yeah, my first 168 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.320 girlfriend got turned into the moon. And it has become a meme of like 169 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.519 the thoughts and prayers, the like what not to say to someone when they've 170 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:56.519 massively trauma dumped on you. See, yeah, but the delivery is so 171 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:03.919 perfect. Yeah. Here, I don't view it as like this like thoughts 172 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.799 and prayers. I view it as like, I don't know. A friend 173 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:09.840 of mine told me that, like his friend died in a car accident one 174 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.519 time, and I was just like that sucks, like and that's it, 175 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:18.399 you know, And he was like that actually felt like the perfect thing for 176 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:20.639 someone to say, because like people always like, oh, I'm sorry, 177 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.159 that's horrible, I'm so sorry for your loss, like the like there's just 178 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:28.519 nothing you can say sometimes Yeah, all you can do is just be like 179 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:33.080 that's rough, buddy, you know, like like what else do you have 180 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.559 to add? There's there's just yeah, that's it. You just acknowledge someone's 181 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:43.159 suffering what they went through. Yeah. But speaking to that moment, Matthew, 182 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:46.679 you you've asked a couple of times like what do we want in the 183 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:54.480 live action right version? I want a little bit more of this Zuko Sokka 184 00:12:54.000 --> 00:13:00.279 interaction and their relationships with their fathers, because obviously, like we've talked about 185 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:05.480 Zuko and his father, Socca has an interesting relationship with his father that I 186 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:09.519 think characterizes him with some of the things we've talked about. Because when his 187 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.720 father and the other men, the warriors and the tribe go off to fight 188 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.960 the Fire Nation, they deliberately leave Socca behind because he's too young, but 189 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.840 they give him like this, He fathers like you have to stay behind and 190 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:26.720 like protect your sister, and grand like gives him this mission. But he 191 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.840 saw himself sees that as a moment where he was not ready yet, He 192 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:37.039 wasn't a warrior yet, and so like they both have these feelings of not 193 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.399 wanting to disappoint their fathers that I didn't really get enough of in the animated 194 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:46.639 version of them talking about that, so I'd like to see more of that. 195 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:50.639 I'm nervous about it, Like I do agree with that, but I 196 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:54.559 think one thing that really came through was I was rewatching the show and kind 197 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:58.440 of surprising, and the dog didn't bark way because it's a dog that shouldn't 198 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.000 bark all the time, but does bark all the time now on TV. 199 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.600 Socca's Dead is fundamentally a decent guy who made a hard decision at a hard 200 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:11.200 time, and I think that that is in the show. Like, yeah, 201 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:16.759 both Katara and Sokka have really mixed feelings about their father because of the 202 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:18.639 way he left, And I think you're right, we probably put too much 203 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:24.879 responsibility on Zuko on Socca, but the ways like we never learned that, 204 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:30.159 like he has a dark secret or that he left because like he had this 205 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:31.600 falling out with their mother. Like that's what I mean, the dog that 206 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:35.080 didn't bark. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, and it 207 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:39.480 never does. He's a good, loving father who had to be Like even 208 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.600 he never really apologizes to the kids for leaving them. He's like it really 209 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.279 sucks that I had to do this and I hate that, and I hate 210 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:50.360 that it was there for your mother. And because I do agree with you, 211 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.480 I think Sokka's feelings about his father and having to live up to this 212 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:58.240 and the damage it does to him are very, very real. But to 213 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.480 me, it's part of what makes a really counterpoint is that Zuko's dad is 214 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:07.679 a certifiably horrible person and horrible father. I don't feel that about Soccer's father. 215 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.600 I think Soccer's father made a really hard decision, a really hard situation 216 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:16.320 that did real harm to his kids, but probably did the best he could, 217 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.320 and I think that's a real important like. But but the fact that 218 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:24.000 Socca could still be suffering and having to live up this reputation of his father, 219 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:30.440 it's kind of what makes it so powerful. Yeah, I don't need 220 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.240 it to be like an in depth conversation between them, but when they go 221 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:39.840 on the adventure and like try to break Socca's father out of prison right the 222 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:45.320 two episode arc, I just felt like I could have used like one or 223 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.600 two more interactions where like Socca talks about his dad and like Zuko says something 224 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.519 or reacts in a way that makes it clear that he's thinking of his father 225 00:15:54.679 --> 00:16:00.440 and like how how different Soccer's relationship is, and like maybe it's there, 226 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.840 but I guess I may I I didn't pick up on it or remember it 227 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.759 as memorable. So just like give me just a little bit more of that, 228 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.080 That's right, Yeah, I think I do with that. I just 229 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:12.519 want to make sure that the father stays a good dude, is all I'm 230 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:18.279 saying. Yeah, you know, you definitely don't need to like construct and 231 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.600 like add more elements of drama to the general narrative. Like it's a long 232 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:27.320 enough story. There's enough like side adventures like it. I'm not I'm not 233 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.799 saying like not to do what you're asking for, Riki. I mean, 234 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:34.279 like you don't have to like add some dark secret and this or that. 235 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:38.759 It's like, yeah, just kind of those two characters talking a little bit 236 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:47.039 more about you know, they're they're very different yet similar kind of relations with 237 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.919 with their dad. Like I could see that, you know, Katara certainly 238 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:55.759 has strong feelings about it, Like I think she like cries her eyes out 239 00:16:55.799 --> 00:17:00.519 and at one point blames her father for their their mother being kidnapped, right 240 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:07.759 or killed? You you weren't there, I think is the narrative. Isn't 241 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.400 that right? Isn't that the Yeah? The scene when Ang disappears to go 242 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:17.200 off and like do his own spirit quest, she starts by v. She 243 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:19.759 goes to her father like very upset about AG and like, how could Ang 244 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.720 leave us? Yeah? And her father is perceptive enough to be like, 245 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:26.200 sweety, is that what you're really upset about? And she's without missing a 246 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:30.359 beat, goes, dad, how could you have left us? I don't 247 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:37.160 remember that they that her mom got killed after the dad and the other warriors 248 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:41.880 left. I thought they there was a raid, her mom died and then 249 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.440 whoever else went out after? But like left us alone? I think, 250 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.200 is that you know we had already lost mom and now you last? Yeah, 251 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.319 I think you're the thing. But she definitely has feelings about for him 252 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:57.799 leaving. Yes, so let's talk about Katar. Yeah, let's talk about 253 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:03.720 guitar and not to revisit a conversation that Rieky and I and Sarah Hayashi had 254 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:11.400 prolong time during a discussion about rebels. Is blood bending fundamentally a bad thing? 255 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:18.480 Obviously? It is? I mean I don't think so. I like 256 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:25.160 it's like is using the force to paralyze someone like who's about to kill someone? 257 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:29.279 Like, Okay, I'll just give you a hypothetical. There's two people 258 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.079 or there's one person sitting down in a chair and someone else is behind them 259 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:38.079 and they're about to smash them over the head or like lop their head off, 260 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:42.119 and you use blood bending to physically stop them. Please tell me what's 261 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:47.799 wrong with that if you don't have any other non blood bending way that you 262 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:56.240 can basically without fail stop this person from murdering this other person. Yeah, 263 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.039 even more so because like your other way of stopping might be the murder of 264 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:04.319 the killer, the potential killer. Like blood bending doesn't like harm someone the 265 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:11.000 way maybe hitting them what a fighter ball does. Like, I think my 266 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:14.920 only real complaint about the show is that I and this is kind of going 267 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.000 to get into a larger issue, but it's about guitarics, the guitar storyline. 268 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.279 It does sometimes feel like there's may have you back up on this. 269 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:26.920 I think one part of the show that I feel hasn't aged very well and 270 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.720 that I have a real kind of some of a complaint with at the time, 271 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.920 but much more so even now, is I feel like at the time 272 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:37.559 the show was made. We had this general cultural idea that there are acceptable 273 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:41.480 ways to fight evil and there are non acceptable ways to fight evil, and 274 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.599 that there are some methods of fighting that are just not okay, and that 275 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:52.200 both is a like the way you do combat, but also just the way 276 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.680 like who you attack, you know, And so we set up Jet and 277 00:19:55.799 --> 00:20:00.480 his band as the like they are clearly going too far in a way that 278 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:04.799 like our heroes never would And I don't agree with Jet necessarily. I think 279 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:10.880 he is attacking innocent people. But I think there's been a larger cultural shift 280 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:17.759 in conversation that maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge the actions of oppressed 281 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:22.759 people in fighting their oppressors, and that the kind of moral there's sort of 282 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.039 a problem or a hypocrisy of sitting on a moral high ground of not being 283 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:29.440 the oppressed person and judging like this is an okay way to fight, and 284 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:33.400 this is not okay way to fight. And I found myself watching the Jet 285 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:37.400 plot line and how judgmental everyone is of them very quickly, and feeling a 286 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.319 lot of sympathy towards them, you know, like I think that they're right, 287 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:45.599 but in a like they're the ones who are most feeling the boot on 288 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.440 their necks of what's happening to them. Why are we so quick to judge 289 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.519 them? And I kind of feel the same about Blood Bending and the character 290 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:57.519 who does BLOODBND Hannah, in that like, when people are doing horrible things 291 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:03.160 to you and your family, I'm not really concerned about the methods you use 292 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:07.880 to stop that happening. I think the story that plays out of because she's 293 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.079 willing to use these methods, she goes darker and darker and darker to the 294 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.200 point where now she just wants revenge. That's a story I'm with. I 295 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:19.480 guess I feel like there's an idea in the story of we can pass judgment 296 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:25.319 on the way other people who are in terrible situations and oppressed situations are fighting 297 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.039 back against that oppression that I was kind of uncomfortable with at the time, 298 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.599 and I'm very uncomfortable with this time. I watched it and for me that 299 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:34.720 kind of and Qatara is the main character at the heart of both of these 300 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:42.200 storylines, of the blood Bending and of the Jet and his fighters. I 301 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:51.960 mean, fundamentally, I understand the trolley problem that Paul brings up, but 302 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.119 from a I always return to the fact that this is fiction, right, 303 00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:59.680 and there are certain conceits we have to have in fiction. We talked about 304 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:03.279 the I guess in last episode we talked about the fictionalized violence and how it's 305 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:11.519 very different from a more realistic of violence that's depicted in media, and moral 306 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:17.079 questions like this, I think in fiction are set up in a way that 307 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:26.160 certain characters or certain actions are deliberately portrayed to be evil to contrast with the 308 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.960 main characters, or to give a point of reference to why the main characters 309 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.119 are are quote unquote good. I mean they are good, but I mean 310 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:37.319 like better than other people, right, Like it's the whole Batman doesn't kill 311 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:42.119 thing like he has. Batman is such a dark character that there has to 312 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:47.799 be a distinction between him and his rogue's gallery and what he does, and 313 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.400 that's the line that he draws, and that's why we still hold him up 314 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:55.880 as as a hero in a sense. And so like here, I think 315 00:22:55.960 --> 00:23:02.440 like it might be a little black and white and comical or I don't know 316 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:07.599 if that's the right word, but but the moralistic stands is that blood bending 317 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:12.160 is evil and because Katara chooses not to, even though she learns how to 318 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:18.240 do it, she chooses not to kill the fire Nation Raider, the Southern 319 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.279 Raider guy. In the follow up that that makes her a good character, 320 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:26.079 and that's that's just kind of like we have to accept that as a conceit 321 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.519 of the fiction. I think in this one, the thing that sticks out 322 00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:37.319 to me is that, like the scenario that I concocted, what if instead 323 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:42.279 of okay, that exact scenario, say, there's some I don't know, 324 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:48.880 like a murderous fire lord who's trying to conquer the world and you want to 325 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.559 stop him but without killing him, and you're trying to figure out how you 326 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.079 could possibly do that, and like, I don't know, maybe if you 327 00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:03.240 knew blood bending, you could just do that. And yes, like like 328 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.039 Katara literally actually had the answer to like Aang's own internal quandary. She had 329 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:11.279 her own intern I mean to me, like her not wanting to kill the 330 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:15.119 guy is very different from like not wanting to use blood bending. I mean, 331 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.559 I just I feel like it's it's a tool like any other tool, 332 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:23.799 and it's always like what are the consequences of this? You know what? 333 00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.920 And these things where it's like, you know, people talk this is the 334 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.400 same discussion of mind control, right, except here it's not actually mind control, 335 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.440 it's just physical control. It's like, well, I guess the contact 336 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:41.799 when I said that Riekina had discussed this in terms of Star Wars Rebels. 337 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:48.000 It's specifically about Ezra using the Force to mind control the Imperial pilot of a 338 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:52.559 you know, attack walker, to cause the attack Walker to go off a 339 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.160 cliff. Yeah. And I was on my episode, by the way, 340 00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:59.559 and it was it was it was fun, and I imagine I had the 341 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:03.680 same point point at the same time where it's you know, I mean that 342 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.319 that's murder. You know, it's what you know here we're talking about. 343 00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.160 You know, it's like the Force if you could just be like, don't 344 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:12.559 kill that guy. Oh, I don't want to kill this guy. It's 345 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:17.599 like, right, but blood bending is even a step less than that, 346 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:22.839 where you're only controlling their physical body and like they could still have whatever thoughts 347 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.279 they want, you know, you're not like fundamentally changing the person. It's 348 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:33.519 like, what's the difference between blood bending someone into paralysis and like intercepting someone's 349 00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:37.759 hand and putting them in a wrist locked where they can't physically cause harm. 350 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.440 At the moment, Like, well, but if two people are attacking you, 351 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:47.559 is blood bending one of them to fight the other? Maybe the larger 352 00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:51.680 where it's not just about self defense, it's also having them. Yeah, 353 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.960 I mean, now we're getting into a more But so that's not a question 354 00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.559 of whether or not blood bending's okay. That's a question of whether or not 355 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:03.880 that is an okay application of blood bending. Right. Of course, there's 356 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:08.880 horrible applications of it. I mean it's like airbending, like aang is this 357 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:15.640 like very non violent fighter, right, non lethal fighter. He's with the 358 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.279 exception of tanks falling off of cliffs and whatever, like, he's basically trying 359 00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:23.799 to separate himself from an opponent, separate an opponent from someone they're attacking, 360 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.440 extinguish fires, whatever it is, you know, using airbending in order to 361 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:38.599 do non lethal means of self defense or defending others, right, using you 362 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:44.400 know, but you can use the same power to just and before this happened 363 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:47.359 in a later series, I thought this myself. I was like, wait, 364 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:51.119 you could just use airbending to just like suffocate people, you know, 365 00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.119 just like like that, and like you know, you can argue, like 366 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.039 is that a good or bad use of it, Well, it's certainly a 367 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:02.319 violent, murderous use of it, you know. And I mean to me, 368 00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.160 if nothing else, if you shoot a laser bolt at me and I 369 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:10.279 use a lightsaber to reflect it back at one of your friends, versus if 370 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:12.079 you're pointing a laser gun at me and I use you know, blood bending 371 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:17.440 to shift your arms so it hit someone else, right, And I get 372 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:18.880 going back to kind of where I was going, which I guess it's more 373 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.079 about the jet plot line than the blood bending, but to me, they 374 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:26.960 feel very similar. I hear what you're saying, Riki about the fictional world, 375 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:32.440 I guess to me, and just to be explicit, like I'm talking, 376 00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:34.559 I think this is a general thing, to be sure, but I'm 377 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.559 talking in this moment specifically about like Hamas and Gaza in Israel and all that. 378 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:45.839 I think, at least for myself growing up seeing these stories where there 379 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.519 were clear lines of is acceptable to fight evil in these ways, but if 380 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.759 you cross this line, then now you're actually becoming as bad as the thing 381 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.799 you're fighting. Put me in a position where I would often be able to 382 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.880 cast moral judgment on you know, other freedom groups or pressure groups that were 383 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:06.759 dealing with the press, and I was dealing with that we're fighting in ways 384 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.039 that maybe I felt uncomfortable with. And then again, this is not meant 385 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:12.200 to be, therefore, a blanket endorsement of Jet or a blankt endorsement of 386 00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:15.920 groups like that in our own world. I guess I've got to a point 387 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.720 where I feel like I'm uncomfortable with shows that are saying there's a clear black 388 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:23.519 and white line, because I think it teaches us that we can we can 389 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:26.519 see the actions of others in our own world today in the clear black and 390 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.599 white line, which is something I'm very uncomfortable with, and that I feel 391 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.680 like the way that the situation Gaza is being talked about is a good example 392 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:41.000 of I feel like the Last Airbender show. Actually, I mean, Jet 393 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:48.680 is a sympathetic character, right Hannah, I think right is a Hannah he 394 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.839 has a bad better is a sympathetic character like that. Sure, there's an 395 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.480 element to which you know, this show is kind of saying like, these 396 00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:00.960 aren't things you should do, or maybe not as an extent to which but 397 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.559 it's kind of clearly saying you know, this isn't the way. But like 398 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:12.079 I do think it does well to like show that struggle of like you know, 399 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:22.359 when facing oppression or confronted with some other negative force, Like, you 400 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:25.960 know, there are different ways to go about how you engage with that, 401 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:32.599 and you know it's worth at least thinking about, like whatever you have to 402 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:37.680 say about what any group or individual does in order to fight against opposite oppression 403 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:45.079 or or whatever else. I think it's at least worth suggesting that. Like 404 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:52.759 it's when you go about doing something like that, you know, give some 405 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.680 thought to the full consequences of your action, like I think, you know, 406 00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:00.440 and come to your own conclusions, you know, like like Zook does. 407 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.759 But like ultimately, like, yeah, I think if you don't give 408 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:08.680 any thought to that, then you're not giving any thought to like what the 409 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.559 world is going to be like after you do whatever you do. You know, 410 00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.559 I don't know, but I hear you. Yeah, I guess, 411 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.039 I very much hear that. I guess It's just the like what I really 412 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.720 am getting stuck on a lot these days is I have a lot more room 413 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:32.079 to think about those consequences when it's not the boot on my neck, And 414 00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.680 then I'm just cautious about therefore making the judgment about someone who is in that 415 00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.160 situation, you know, And I think that's where I think, to me, 416 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:42.920 I think Jet is portrayed as a cautionary tale and that we're like sympathetic, 417 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.000 but it's perceived it is kind of like, because of the terrible things 418 00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.559 he's gone through, he has made a mistake. He's gone wrong in a 419 00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:53.200 way that I am it was hard, Yeah, I hear you. I 420 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.319 mean I think he has though, like he tries to kill an entire village 421 00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:00.480 of people and like, yeah, I don't know, I just think that's 422 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:06.720 bad. I'm always gonna think that's bad. I agree. Yeah, yeah, 423 00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:10.640 I think blood bending is fine, but maybe not like blood bending a 424 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.000 bunch of people to go be frozen in a cave who aren't all just like 425 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:18.000 a bunch of the soldiers who are a president like that. Specifically, what 426 00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:19.799 she did seemed bad, but you know, I don't know. Yeah. 427 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:27.799 So my my thought on this is that again, like I'm approaching this as 428 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:33.200 a as a work of fiction and how the writers are presenting something to us. 429 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:40.640 Because while I agree with a lot of your thoughts, Matthew, I 430 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:48.200 think it's important to not draw too many lines between fiction and reality, just 431 00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:53.000 just in a general standpoint, because if we do that, then if we 432 00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:59.759 make fiction too real, I think it loses something. It loses some power 433 00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:05.240 of storytelling because real life is messy, Real life is not black and white, 434 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:09.759 and like you could make the argument that every every war is evil. 435 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:15.680 I mean that's not that's how I believe that. But you lose the ability 436 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:22.799 for characters in fiction to enact violence or do things that you know we have 437 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:28.759 to accept as part of this story. But on the blood bending, I 438 00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:35.160 think there is like this line that the storytellers are drawing. And what I 439 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:40.519 find important is that in the fictional world, the characters are also drawing that 440 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:49.119 line. Katara is choosing not to blood bend, right, She's choosing not 441 00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.960 to use this power because she, in her own heart is drawing this line 442 00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:58.480 a moral line of this is evil. I won't cross this line. And 443 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:02.960 I find the agents of her choice to be important part of her character compared 444 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:09.839 to other works of fiction where evil powers like this literally like through magic, 445 00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:15.519 corrupt their soul and like you literally see like the black in their in their 446 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.640 veins and stuff as they use that power. Right, Like that that is 447 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.119 like a storytelling method, but I find it's so much more powerful that she 448 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:28.559 makes these choices rather than like the choice being forced upon her, because it's 449 00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.640 literally like sucking her soul out, Like that's that's what I like about it. 450 00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:36.079 I think, I think that's very fair, and I do agree, 451 00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:40.599 like I love something like probably my favorite ship of in her movie of all 452 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:45.799 time to this day is still Logan, in part because the violence is so 453 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.640 uncomfortably awful to watch, even when it is for the most righteous purposes. 454 00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.160 And I feel like the world needs that, because I think if people watch 455 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:58.920 movies and think violence in a good cause is awesome, that's a bad thing. 456 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:01.640 But I also think if every movie was like that, it'll be horrible. 457 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:07.119 And I guess at this moment in time, with what's happening in the 458 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:14.079 world on today, February thirteenth, I am feeling particularly aware of the problems 459 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.400 of people feeling like we can draw easy moral lines of how people should act 460 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:22.280 in situations that we're not in, and so I'm probably I'm at a time 461 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:24.400 where I'm like, I really I wish there was more fiction that didn't do 462 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:27.559 that, but you're right, there is fiction that didn't do that, and 463 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.639 not all fiction should do that, and so Yeah, I think it'd make 464 00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:32.239 a very good point. I guess I'm just saying for me right now, 465 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:37.000 at least in this historical moment, that's a storyline that I'm really wrestling with. 466 00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:39.519 You know, I think there's a need for both. There's so much 467 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:43.000 more we can say about this, but we haven't actually talked about Kaitara at 468 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:46.559 all, So Paul take us away. Yeah. So, I mean I 469 00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:53.079 really like what you said, Riki about While I disagree with Katara and the 470 00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:59.960 characters' stances that like blood bending is necessarily fundamentally evil or something one shouldn't do, 471 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:05.239 I very much appreciate that she has come to this conclusion. She's come 472 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.280 to a conclusion, decided to take a stance on it and say I'm not 473 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:13.320 going to do that. That's not how I want to fight this war basically, 474 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.760 And I think, you know, in the story, I mean, 475 00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:22.239 she's kind of she's like she's the narrator right in the intro, Like, 476 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.679 yeah, she's the one who's like, oh, this is the Avatar. 477 00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.440 We have to help the avatar become the Avatar so we can stop this war. 478 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:36.719 Like, you know, she's really the character who kind of gets things 479 00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.360 to move the way they need to move, and you know, she does 480 00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:45.400 go to the Northern Water tribe to learn how to water bend, and she 481 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:50.679 gradually over the course of the series becomes a water bending master. And I 482 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:54.440 think that that journey of training while also trying to be a teacher, you 483 00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:59.760 know, and having having you know, grown up I guess as a young 484 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:05.800 adult in like martial arts culture, having been pressed into you know, service 485 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:09.559 as a teacher basically as a red belt teaching like junior black belts, which 486 00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:13.800 was weird, but like teaching things that I was still learning. Like, 487 00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:16.559 I relate to her a lot in that way of like this, Okay, 488 00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:22.119 I'm learning something still, and I'm trying to teach it to someone who doesn't 489 00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.920 know it yet, while also trying to learn myself to do it better partially 490 00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:30.880 so I can then teach them what's next. You know, It's like as 491 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:34.519 a teacher, like learning more actually can help you become a better teacher, 492 00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:40.239 and teaching someone who is, for mystical reasons, far better at learning the 493 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:45.159 stuff than you are in ways that I think legitimately frustrating at times. Sure, 494 00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:49.559 yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah, And yeah, having like 495 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.199 a very talented student who just like it's like, oh, it took me 496 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.480 a little longer to learn that one. You know, that can be a 497 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:59.199 you know, a bit of an ego check, right, But as a 498 00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:01.360 teacher it's important to be able to overcome that and to celebrate, you know, 499 00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:06.079 your student successes and then to know when it's like time for them to 500 00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.320 either move on to another teacher or just kind of do their own thing because 501 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:13.760 you know, you've taught them what you have to learn. So Katara being 502 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:20.559 this this teacher and also being a student and learning throughout the series, you 503 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:24.079 know, she sets things into motion really, but also doesn't have a lot 504 00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:27.840 of times to kind of just like do her thing, you know. And 505 00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.840 there's a few like the I think the Painted Lady I think is that what 506 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.480 it's called, or the Lady in the Lake whatever, whatever, you know, 507 00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:37.920 where there's this polluted lake and there's this lake town, and there's this 508 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:43.519 factory, and then you know she does stuff, and you know, she 509 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:49.800 she really doesn't have a lot of spots where she her agency is to like 510 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:52.079 kind of do what she wants to do. You know, She's like, 511 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:54.400 I feel like a lot of the times she's kind of trying to keep them 512 00:37:54.440 --> 00:38:00.719 on task and on course and everything, and so it's it's nice when maybe 513 00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:04.079 like one time a season or so, you know, she really gets an 514 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:08.280 episode where she gets to be the driving force of that episode and you know, 515 00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:12.880 kind of make her decisions for like what's going to happen, what she's 516 00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:16.199 going to do there, and so so I appreciate her choice with regard to 517 00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:21.119 choosing not to blood bend, even if I don't see it as just some 518 00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:25.440 innately evil objectively, oh, you definitely shouldn't do that kind of thing. 519 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.280 Like the fact that she sees it that way and then decides to not use 520 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:36.880 this very powerful weapon essentially, I think is still a powerful message even if 521 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:38.280 I'm like, well, I don't think that weapons so bad. It's like 522 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:40.440 no, but she does, and she chooses not to use it for that 523 00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:45.679 reason, and I respect that. Like her journey to becoming a water vating 524 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:51.000 master is pretty underrated, I think in light of all of the other characters 525 00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:55.599 in their power levels, because at the end of this show, she's the 526 00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:00.920 one who defeats a Zula in one on one combat. Like Zuko challenges Azula 527 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:07.679 to the Agnekai, but he has to make the selfless sacrifice play when Azula 528 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:13.239 turns her lightning to Katara and he's Zuko's taken out of it, and then 529 00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:16.639 she has to face Azula one on one and defeats her. And I think 530 00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:22.679 that's that's a really interesting moment to me, that whole fight and how that 531 00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:28.679 plays out, and maybe like an expectation subversion or at least I wasn't expecting 532 00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:31.280 it to play out that way, but I really like it for both of 533 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:37.199 their characters. Yeah, I think it is really well done, especially because 534 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:40.800 this is changing now, but at the time that the show was originally made, 535 00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:45.000 there was often a sense of like, your female protagonist has to fight 536 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:49.639 your female antagonist, and it didn't feel like that was set up here, 537 00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:52.719 you know, in terms of like the fight between Azula, it winds up 538 00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:55.159 being the fight between the Zula and Tara. The other thing I would just 539 00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.760 say about Guitars character that I want to say, and I think I have 540 00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.079 to move on because there's a lot more to talk about. I love that 541 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:07.280 she is the last one to really come around on Soakka's humor because and again 542 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.159 I found it very relatable in a way because what I see in the situation 543 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:15.960 is that his humor, Like, the two of them are kind of the 544 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:17.679 people who really helping to hold the water drive together. In a lot of 545 00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:21.760 ways, they're the kind of the oldest of the younger generation that's still left 546 00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:27.280 behind. He deals with all my humor, and other people may appreciate that, 547 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.880 but to her, she feels like he's being humorous because she has to 548 00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:34.440 be the one to take to take everything seriously and to take care of everything, 549 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:37.880 and so she sees his humor as him kind of shirking responsibilities. And 550 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:43.079 so when they rejoin everyone else who doesn't have that backstory, all they see 551 00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.679 is Socca's humor, which they love and sometimes loved role that I to, 552 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:50.960 I roll at something I can very much relate to as the very proud king 553 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:54.480 of bad puns. And so the idea that like the rest of them are 554 00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:58.280 like, oh, yeah, we love Socca is bad jokes, and Guitara 555 00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:00.800 is like she sees the bad jokes that they were mind of all the things 556 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:04.199 that he didn't do for the tribe that she had to do. I just 557 00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:06.400 really love that, and it's one more part of her growth and I think 558 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:12.719 is essential. Let's turn to the last memory of the gang. We haven't 559 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:16.480 really talked about Tough, and I will just start by saying, Tough to 560 00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:22.079 me is not only a great character, but an incredibly important character because she 561 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.719 is in a very small group that's being added to and I think Echo in 562 00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:30.440 the MCU is now very much also part of the group of good representation of 563 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:36.000 disability in science fiction fantasy because and it's not our entire character. That's a 564 00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.599 very important thing as well, but so much I've often talked about this that 565 00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:45.239 so often you have a disabled character who is then given through science fiction or 566 00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:50.519 magic basically the ability to erase their disability in a way that no longer becomes 567 00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:53.199 relatable. And the fact that she and granted I'm not blind, so I 568 00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:58.559 can't speak to that particular experience, but the way that she has, you 569 00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:01.639 know, through her ability through bending to sort of better you know, have 570 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:05.639 senses that are better than everyone else's, and it still functioned very much in 571 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:09.599 the world, but it never takes away her blindness. And again what I 572 00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:13.880 think is so relatable. I mean, if you've been around me for at 573 00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:15.559 any period of time, you've probably heard me make a bad joke about my 574 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:19.400 amputation. You know, I'm going to jump to my foot, you know, 575 00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:24.400 something like that. And she makes bad jokes about her lack of vision 576 00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:28.679 all the time, as well as jokes with others, like when they're like, 577 00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:30.920 oh my gosh, Toff, you have to see this poster and she's 578 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:36.800 like, do I do? I have to see the poster. I find 579 00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:39.280 her character one of the most as a disabled person, one of the ones 580 00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:43.159 I can most relate to. And I just absolutely love her, and I 581 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.400 love that she exists, and I love that they understood that issue enough to 582 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:52.039 write her that way. Yeah. I mean I agree with all of that. 583 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:57.360 Obviously, I don't know from personal experience, but it felt like a 584 00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:04.039 satisfying representation to me, and I hope it was to blind audience members who 585 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:09.360 have experienced this show. So yeah, Like everything you said about the humor, 586 00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:15.360 I think her humor is just spot on. And her addition in season 587 00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:19.840 two really like took the show into the stratosphere for me, Like it was 588 00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.199 already a good show in season one, but adding her to the group, 589 00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:28.039 like and the dynamic of it, and her like her power again, Like 590 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.159 her power level from the start was off the charts, and then she learns 591 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:35.639 how to metal bed, It's like oh my gosh, what is going on 592 00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:40.119 here? She's just a great character all around. I love the voice acting. 593 00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:45.480 It just a perfect character. I mean, not my favorite, but 594 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:49.800 I think there's like no notes, right, Like I can't think of a 595 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:53.760 way to make her better. Yeah, yeah, I agree with all of 596 00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:59.599 that. I think like some some high notes for me are I mean, 597 00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:04.159 obviously, when when she actually figures out metal bending, it's like wait what 598 00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:13.400 Yeah? And then you know when she has tea with Iro, you know, 599 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:15.920 when when Zuko burns her feet, and like the way she reacts to 600 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:20.639 that, I think, you know, afterwards, the way she kind of 601 00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:22.760 is like, well, you know, I'm the one who's Feedie burned, 602 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:28.800 and I'm like, okay, let's give him a chance. And then when 603 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:34.119 she's outside the library and the library sinking into the desert, into the sand, 604 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:39.360 and APA's being abducted, and she like wants to help Apa, but 605 00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:45.639 she also doesn't want all of her other friends to be lost underground. Is 606 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:50.199 it's such a it's such a hard moment, you know, for her, 607 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:53.559 and you know, you can you can tell how much she cares about all 608 00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:59.880 of them, and you know, including Apa, and and you know that's 609 00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:02.320 like one of the few times like her power isn't quite enough, like because 610 00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:08.599 she has she really does have. She's the character who enters I think with 611 00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:14.159 the highest like obvious power level. You know. Yeah, he just like 612 00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:16.159 steps on screen. You're like, oh, she can do that, you 613 00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:21.239 know, And and she does, you know, like you're saying about characters 614 00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:25.840 in fiction. You know, she does have a power that lets her sort 615 00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:32.840 of circumvent her disability to an extent in certain ways at times, you know, 616 00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.400 but then at other times it doesn't, and in other ways it doesn't. 617 00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:38.519 You know. It's not like it's not quite like Daredevil, right, 618 00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:43.159 Yeah, And the desert scene you're talking about is a good sign where it's 619 00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:45.360 the power is it infallible? Because right for her standing on sand, she 620 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:49.760 says, if I feel like my vision is a crowbly blurry exactly her, 621 00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.239 it doesn't always work, yeah, Or like if she's flying on APA, 622 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:57.400 it's like she can't perceive the other people around her the way she could if 623 00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:00.559 they were standing on solid ground. And I do, but they do a 624 00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:05.559 good job in moments like when she first joins the group and asks for her 625 00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:10.000 championship belt back and Sokka just drops it. To her from from Opa and 626 00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:14.480 it hits her on the head because she you know, can't see it using 627 00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:19.119 her earth spending powers. Like that's that's a fun moment and it's believable. 628 00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:24.079 But I do think like a lot of the combat it's very inconsistent about like 629 00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:30.000 what she can I'm gonna keep using see you know what she can see what 630 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:35.360 she can't that's flying through the air at her. So it's it's hard. 631 00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:39.400 I think it's very hard to write that character correctly, like in moments like 632 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.880 that. So I don't know, I think we can be critical of it 633 00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:46.840 and say like it's inconsistent, but still overall, so I guess I do 634 00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:54.199 have a note, but overall like it given given where representation on this has 635 00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:58.760 been in the past, I think it's just a monumental leap forward. Yeah, 636 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:00.320 I mean this is also a show I started twenty years ago, right, 637 00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:05.000 so where representation was at that point in time. And also like would 638 00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.440 it be a better show if they were perfectly consistent about all of her combat 639 00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:15.840 abilities, like she probably would be less powerful if they really try to you 640 00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:22.920 know yep. But now, like talking about the live action show, maybe 641 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:27.719 that that that is something that can think about and address more, try to 642 00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:30.320 address it more realistically, Like, I don't think it can be completely realistic, 643 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:35.400 like as none of these martial arts will probably be like there will be 644 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:38.840 certainly a lot of wires involved in making people fly around, right, So 645 00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:46.079 I'm not expecting it to be like completely realistic. But let's try to continue 646 00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:51.119 to move the conversation on. Yeah, I think definitely, and give us 647 00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:54.800 some continuity hopefully right throughout the series, right for sure. And I'll say 648 00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:59.840 to listeners for anybody who is part of the blind community or you know, 649 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:02.920 has anything related to that, would love to hear from you as well. 650 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:08.239 Yeah, because it's we're talking about a television show and it's a fundamentally a 651 00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:15.519 visual entertainment medium. But like I don't want to take anything away from blind 652 00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:20.000 audience members, right, like the want to enjoy it and to please let 653 00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:24.840 us know if you have a different experience or a different understanding of this character 654 00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:30.400 than us, because like none of us can speak to this very much, 655 00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:34.159 so we don't have too much more time, so I do want to kind 656 00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.800 of starting to wrap up. There's one particular plot line though, that for 657 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:42.920 me is I think honestly my favorite plot line in the show, and that 658 00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:49.320 I did not realize how prescient it was until the last few years. And 659 00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:52.559 that's Bossings say. And for those who don't remember or don't know, as 660 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:55.920 we actually done a terrible job of summarizing the stuff for people who haven't seen 661 00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:00.679 the show because we're jumping into it. But in the one of the conceits 662 00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:02.719 that we said is that there's been one hundred years of war and that most 663 00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.320 of that war is happening right now within the Earth Kingdom with the Fire Nation 664 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:13.760 invading but having not quite conquered it yet. But the capital city of the 665 00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:17.119 Earth Kingdom, Bossing say, where the Earth King lives, there is no 666 00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:22.800 war in Bossing say, like they have done so much to eradicate this idea 667 00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:25.519 and really propaganda is so that the people in the city can live this happy, 668 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:31.039 sort of joyous life of you know, not knowing about the problems outside 669 00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:36.599 literally their city walls and just being oppressed by their own Earth King and their 670 00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:42.559 own ridiculous government instead of everything and very much like I just did an episode 671 00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:45.920 on my other podcast about Attack of the Clones where I say that one of 672 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:47.719 the things that I hate about that is when we reveal that Duku isn't just 673 00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:52.480 doing this all of its own in a way that is perfect for Palpatine's plans, 674 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:55.559 but is actually an agent of Darth Citius. There is never a moment 675 00:49:55.639 --> 00:50:00.280 where it is said that the long thing person who's running all this is in 676 00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:05.800 some way working for the fire Nation. He does later when he's caught out 677 00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:07.320 and is exposed, but in the moment, it's just like, no, 678 00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:13.960 this is what people do sometimes in times of war. And you know, 679 00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:16.320 probably when I watched it, I thought that's a little over the top, 680 00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:22.320 that's not really believable. Having now lived through there is no COVID in USA, 681 00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:25.320 and then many other times where I think this has become very applicable, 682 00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:30.880 Like that's I think the most direct one. But I also think just the 683 00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:38.320 idea of that people who live in comfortable situations can very comfortably ignore the fact 684 00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:43.000 that these horrible things are happening to people maybe down the street or maybe across 685 00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:45.679 the world from them, is actually really, really and then our media does 686 00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:52.000 an awful lot to help sustain that is really very impressient, And so to 687 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:57.199 me it is the it's probably the storyline that I'm most investing in them doing 688 00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:00.159 right and them really kind of keeping the same, Like the metaphor of it 689 00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:02.599 doesn't have to be over the top, but has to be there. Of 690 00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:07.480 you know, this is this is a very real thing. It is not 691 00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:09.400 a fantasy. Oh my gosh, how could they do this in a fantasy 692 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:14.000 world? You know, the level of brainwashing involved is probably a little bit 693 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:19.119 fantastical, but you know, it's one of the storylines that has proven so 694 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:22.480 true over the years since it was made that I'm really looking forward to. 695 00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:24.559 I'm both trepadacious but also looking forward to seeing how they do it on screen. 696 00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:30.679 Yeah. I think we did an episode of this very podcast titled there 697 00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:35.199 Is No Racism in Possing Say that was kind of about, you know, 698 00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:40.079 people who don't know that racism is like going on, don't know that, 699 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.920 you know, like that there's anyway we don't have to you could go listen 700 00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:50.440 to it episode ninety four, but like the point being that there's like, 701 00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:59.039 yeah, I agree, sorry, that's glad to say. Like there's a 702 00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:00.239 lot of things that like if you don't know about it, you don't know 703 00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:07.719 about it, and it's easy to form opinions that are very strong, but 704 00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:10.960 like completely uninformed and like make no sense because it's like, yeah, you 705 00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:16.280 need to know something to really have an opinion on it. That I mean, 706 00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:23.960 you need to know something, right Like yeah, so yeah, well 707 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:30.159 you open the can. So okay, let me talk about race in the 708 00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:37.039 show, right, Like we talked about representation of disability, Paul, you 709 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:46.159 mentioned Ang's vegetarianism, and obviously, like I'm Japanese and this is a highly 710 00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:57.079 Asian inspired show, like the Fantasy World feels like all Asian right outside of 711 00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:04.400 the Yeah, the tribes are our native North American inspired, I guess, 712 00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:12.119 and I think actually they are more inspired by Russian and Asian or Arctic, 713 00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:15.159 although those people like Asian Arctic and North American Arctic have quite a lot in 714 00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:22.559 common. But but yeah, but for me, like talking about like what's 715 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:25.199 what we're going to see in the live action, like that is what I'm 716 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:30.960 most curious about and excited for in a lot of ways because being an animated 717 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:35.159 show, a lot of the voice actors. I love him to death, 718 00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:39.280 you know, like Mark Hamill as OZI obviously like a top tier you know, 719 00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:43.960 we know him as the Joker in Batman, just the top tier villain 720 00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:47.639 whenever he shows up. He's fantastic. Same thing with Clancy Brown. You 721 00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:53.960 just mentioned the Leader of the Day Fong. Clancy Brown is another like great 722 00:53:54.039 --> 00:54:00.880 voice actor and villain. But these are like white guys. Yeah, So 723 00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:07.360 I'm I'm very excited for the live action because they are casting people who you 724 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:13.440 know, are Asian of Asian ancestry. I'm not going to spoil any of 725 00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:16.440 the names, but like some of them are very notable actors, and the 726 00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:22.519 young the Aang, the Avatar gang is like young people, so like mostly 727 00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:29.000 unknown I think, but still like honoring the traditions that have been set up 728 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:32.639 in this fictionalized universe, like the parallels to the real world. So I 729 00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:37.719 just I'm really excited about that, and I'm a little worried. And let 730 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:43.840 me tell you why I'm worried, because this the fire nation in the fictionalized 731 00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:51.159 world is most people believe it to be inspired by Imperial Japan, right, 732 00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:54.599 I think that's that's and then there's a there's a lot of debate and discussion. 733 00:54:54.599 --> 00:54:58.440 We could have a whole nother episode. I'm sure we could have about 734 00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.639 that, and we may have when we discussed the live action show, but 735 00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:09.800 that's as part of my own heritage, Like that's a very disappointing and terrible 736 00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:19.199 history that we have of of colonizing other Asian countries. And so it's it's 737 00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:23.159 going to be very interesting for me to see how they represent this fictionalized world 738 00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:30.400 because it's even though it's fiction, you're you're going to draw parallels. You're 739 00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:36.960 going to draw visual parallels like the there's an episode where Aang goes to school 740 00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:40.880 and the Fire Nation and learns about their propaganda, and that's like just straight 741 00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:49.320 out of how you know, stuff like that happened. And so I really 742 00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:53.679 hope it's done well. And I think the way that they the casting choices 743 00:55:53.719 --> 00:55:58.840 they have made shows to a care that they have and any like the original 744 00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:04.119 creators, like the cultural consultants that they had on hand to make the animated 745 00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:07.920 show. I think it shows a lot of care from the very beginning in 746 00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:13.800 wanting to make it, you know, not accurate because it's again it's fiction, 747 00:56:14.119 --> 00:56:17.039 but make it true to a lot of the things that they're drawing inspiration 748 00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:22.039 from. Yeah, I think it's I think it's very important that it's a 749 00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:27.559 fantasy series, right, It's a fantasy setting, like the Fire Nation is 750 00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:31.440 not Imperial Japan. It certainly the first time I saw it, I thought 751 00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:37.639 that was the main inspiration. Apparently it's actually supposedly mostly inspired by the Chin 752 00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:45.719 Dynasty, the first Chinese dynasty that kind of set up the Chinese Empire. 753 00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:51.840 I think, like their actual helmet design and stuff like that is looks like 754 00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:57.000 that. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't also have inspiration drawn from Imperial 755 00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:02.360 Japan. And I mean, you know, with Maco voicing Uncle Iro as 756 00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:10.639 one of the few characters that actually has a like accent of like English, 757 00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:15.920 not as a first language, right, like he speaks with George t. 758 00:57:15.079 --> 00:57:20.239 K plays like a prison warden. Yeah, in one of the episodes. 759 00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:24.320 Yeah, But like as far as like in the main cast, you know, 760 00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:29.639 it's and I think there's this idea that kind of like the older generation 761 00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:31.960 is supposed to speak a little differently than the younger generation and whatever. But 762 00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:39.239 like, I definitely am happy that they're hiring actors of Asian descent to play 763 00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:43.960 most of the characters, because that's just and that was one of the complaints 764 00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:50.960 about the first movie, you know that it was like they just mostly hired 765 00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:53.960 white actors and then they made you know, the fire Nation I think was 766 00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:02.199 like Indian, like Asian Indian, and it just it was it was a 767 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:07.719 choice, you know, it didn't seem like a good one, and so 768 00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:12.599 I do I do think it's like a very difficult line, right to try 769 00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:17.400 and straddle the this is not a direct representation of any given culture, but 770 00:58:17.960 --> 00:58:22.559 it is clearly inspired by a number of cultures or a set of cultures or 771 00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:30.440 you know, And so how do you like pay homage to that and like 772 00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:36.559 actually be accurate to an extent with while making it clear that it's not actually 773 00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:44.440 a direct representation like of a specific culture. And I think that's just hard. 774 00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:49.159 And the first series I think did, the animated series, I think 775 00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:53.239 did a great job of that for the time it was made. I would 776 00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:57.800 hope that a series made like that now did a better job of that. 777 00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:05.280 And so I hope that the live action series kind of continues to improve in 778 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:08.280 that direction. Yeah, And it's interesting because a lot of it, I 779 00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:13.000 think also come down to what are the things that you're looking at that are 780 00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.599 informing you? Because I'll be honest, for me, I'm not very much 781 00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:20.840 a visual person, and I don't I know more now than I did want 782 00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:22.559 to watch the show in part because discussions with the two of you and many 783 00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:28.079 others, I didn't know enough to know like, oh, these things are 784 00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:32.840 they look like aspects of imperial Japan versus Imperial China versus you know, Tibet 785 00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:37.400 or other things like that. But I do know the history of Imperial Japan 786 00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:43.000 quite well, and I think in many ways it's that the Fire Nation is 787 00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:46.440 portrayed, is kind of portrayed as like the first one to become more industrial 788 00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:50.719 than a lot of the others, and then to use that industrial might in 789 00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:53.199 a way to conquer. And then also that it gets like kind of trapped 790 00:59:53.239 --> 00:59:59.360 in this unending war in the Earth Kingdom, which is very reminiscent of the 791 00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:05.320 Imperial pan in China, down to even it's an island nation too, you 792 01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:07.440 know, yeah, yeah, and down to even the like by the time 793 01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:12.440 of the Legend of Kora, there's all this like chaos of who is going 794 01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:15.039 to rule the you know, who is going to rule the Earth Kingdom? 795 01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:19.519 Very much in that, like you know, the Chinese Civil War that eventually 796 01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:23.440 leads to now and all that is very much a response of the chaos of 797 01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:27.920 of I mean, massively splinting history in a couple of things. But yeah, 798 01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:30.559 but I think and it's an interesting lesson I think of like what is 799 01:00:30.599 --> 01:00:35.280 it you're paying attention to. Is you're paying attention to the historical details, 800 01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:38.679 You're paying attention to the accents of the actors, You're paying attention to the 801 01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:43.400 martial art. Like I I do not have any understanding until I think, 802 01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:45.199 Paul, you really helped me see that, like the that there are different 803 01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:51.800 martial arts used by and if I remember Jacob maybe yeah, I think so 804 01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:54.480 tell me if I'm wrong here, But my memory is that the Fire Kingdom 805 01:00:54.639 --> 01:01:00.800 style is more closely associated to karate, to karate which is more Japanese influenced 806 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:04.719 than that the Earth Kingdom is more kung fu, which is more Chinians influenced 807 01:01:04.719 --> 01:01:09.719 them. So I feel so many different axes on which this representation is shown. 808 01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:13.159 And so yeah, I think it's also a reminder of all of us 809 01:01:13.239 --> 01:01:16.280 of like, yeah, grabbing one thing and saying therefore this is that is 810 01:01:16.840 --> 01:01:21.000 something to be careful of. Yeah, And I think that was my first 811 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:24.159 interpretation, but I think it was actually based more on like northern styles of 812 01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:35.360 which then were, which is what like shotokan karate is like more inspired you 813 01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:40.239 know, based on which is my main like what I've seen. Like we'd 814 01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:44.320 have people come to the dojeng who like did shotcan before, and I'd be 815 01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:46.039 like, ah, that that guy did Shotokan, like just by the way 816 01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:50.239 they move, you know, whereas like if someone did like gochuu, like 817 01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:53.159 they just move a different way, and that's like more like the Southern styles, 818 01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:58.519 and and so again it's a thing where to me, like in my 819 01:01:58.679 --> 01:02:01.239 view, I definitely thought the Fire Nation was inspired by Imperial Japan, you 820 01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:08.960 know, and that was just you know a combination of my lack of understanding 821 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:15.239 and knowledge of like a larger sense of Asian history and culture and everything. 822 01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:20.400 But also like there are elements like the industrialization that you know, and the 823 01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:23.800 it being this this island nation that like you know, So again it's a 824 01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:30.320 fantasy setting that draws aspects like the martial arts are more specifically like the water 825 01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:35.360 bending is just like straight up tai chi, you know. And and but 826 01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:37.920 so yeah, there's there's you know, and I mean they use characters right 827 01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:40.840 that are You're like, oh, yeah, that's that's the word for this. 828 01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:45.559 That's the word for that. Like although I think in the live adction 829 01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:49.880 adaptation. They just replaced them with like some made up symbols or something I 830 01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:52.639 don't know, which seems like really weird, but like they had an advisor 831 01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:58.880 specifically for the calligraphy, you know, they had an advisor specifically for you 832 01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:00.079 know, the martial arts, and and that's the type of thing that I 833 01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:06.679 think you need to do if you want to borrow aspects from real world cultures 834 01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:10.719 and integrate them into fantasy cultures. I think you need to know enough about 835 01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:16.239 those cultures to know like, are you are you gonna make something feel like 836 01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:22.280 something really uncomfortable? Like do you do you know the history enough to know 837 01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:25.159 where you're kind of pressing And if you just change one thing, is that 838 01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:29.320 going to be like oh, oh no, you didn't like, you know, 839 01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:34.280 like where it feels like you're saying something that wasn't necessarily something you meant 840 01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:37.840 to say at all, but like just through ignorance, like you end up 841 01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:43.239 kind of making some political statement that's like, oh, that's not that's not 842 01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:50.239 a good statement to make, right. There are so many situations of you 843 01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:53.360 know, what we would call bad representation where you're just like, you know 844 01:03:54.400 --> 01:04:00.000 that something depicting you know, like an Asian culture was written by a room 845 01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:05.360 full of white people and it just like comes off like so hammy and and 846 01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:11.360 poorly written. And this this just never felt like that because like I don't 847 01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:15.320 know the racial makeup of the Writer's Room, but as Paul said, like 848 01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:19.760 they have at least done their due diligence and research and had consultants on hand, 849 01:04:20.039 --> 01:04:25.119 and they talk to people, and that's that's what I want, Like 850 01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:30.360 obviously, like every moment where you can get more representation anywhere, whether it's 851 01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:35.000 on screen voice acting, like Writer's Room, Like I love that, but 852 01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:39.960 at the very least, you know, like, don't don't make like basically 853 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:43.880 like cultural appropriation the TV show. And I don't believe that that's what this 854 01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:46.199 is at all. And I think that's so true. And I'll say, 855 01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:50.440 even for me, I remember when I first started watching it, and you 856 01:04:50.440 --> 01:04:54.960 know, like Riki, I'm very glad you brought up that topic. It's 857 01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:57.320 one that I wanted that I wanted to be able to ask you about, 858 01:04:57.360 --> 01:04:59.719 but also want to be cautious about because I never want to do the token 859 01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:01.760 I of like, oh hey, the Asian person says that it's okay, 860 01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:05.360 So it's okay because I think or the even asking you to be the definitive 861 01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:10.239 voice of any of these things. So I think these conversations will have to 862 01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:14.800 be handled carefully. And in that similar vein, I did have some concern 863 01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:16.239 going into the show of like, oh, it all feels very Asian and 864 01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:19.920 it's written by white people. And one of the things that made me more 865 01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:24.360 comfortable about it was someone telling me that George de Kay was a voice actor 866 01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:28.719 in it, because he is someone who's been very upfront all along in his 867 01:05:28.800 --> 01:05:32.519 career that you know, he regretted a lot of the things about Star Trek 868 01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:36.000 that felt very kind of tokenizing towards his character, and that he once he 869 01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:40.079 sort of felt like he could start picking and choosing his roles, that he 870 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:44.000 was going to be very careful never to sort of play into a white written 871 01:05:44.039 --> 01:05:46.360 Asian stereotype. And so the fact that he had chosen to be involved with 872 01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:49.440 us was like, Okay, that tells me a lot about like what this 873 01:05:49.519 --> 01:05:53.679 kind of a show is. And obviously those in season one and things could 874 01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:57.360 have gone wrong, and so yeah, so and I do know, I 875 01:05:57.360 --> 01:05:59.679 mean, I know there are some folks who do object to the live act 876 01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:02.039 to the animated show because it's white people writing about it, you know, 877 01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:05.719 and they have so I'm not to say that it's universal acclaimed for it, 878 01:06:06.440 --> 01:06:09.800 but yeah, I think it's gonna be a very important topic to keep an 879 01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:12.599 eye on in the live action, and that will all kind of I'm curious 880 01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:15.840 to hear both your thoughts on and the thoughts of many others. Yeah, 881 01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:20.480 I mean like I will most certainly have thoughts and feelings about it, and 882 01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:28.320 like I'm just one person, and most notably like my background is that I 883 01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:33.199 am culturally like I am very American, like I grew up here ninety percent 884 01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:38.400 of my life, and I don't I lack a lot of connection to more 885 01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:44.679 traditional Japanese culture and opinions about media. So by all means like I am 886 01:06:44.719 --> 01:06:48.880 not the sole representative of a voice. I'm just my own voice, and 887 01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:53.599 I will always try to be true to that, but leave the door open 888 01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:56.199 to other people to say, hey, like I feel a little bit differently 889 01:06:56.239 --> 01:06:59.960 about this, And then I think that's what makes fandom great is having discussion 890 01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:03.119 in a way that we can all express our opinions but not attack each other. 891 01:07:03.199 --> 01:07:09.960 Right like if other people like if Asian fans of Avatar come and say 892 01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:14.159 no, like, we see this very differently, Like I would love to 893 01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:17.599 hear that and learn about their opinions and their point of view. Yeah, 894 01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:20.119 and I'll also say, like, I didn't even thought of this until this 895 01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:25.599 discussion, but Paul, you brought up the episodes where And goes to a 896 01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:29.920 Fire Nation school, and it really helps us as the viewers to humanize those 897 01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:32.960 character, to humanize the people from the Fire Nation, And I'm realizing I 898 01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:35.079 think that's also going to be a very essential part of the show to me. 899 01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:39.639 And granted that's until season three, you know, in part because I 900 01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:41.760 do want to see hot men, hotman, hot meant, which I think 901 01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:45.960 is just a great scene and the power of dance, but also because it 902 01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:49.280 taken this metaphor further, you know, with Offenheimer, a movie that was 903 01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:53.639 in public discussion this year, I think there's been a lot of attention drawn 904 01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:59.400 to one of the horrible things that happened as the end of Imperial Japan was 905 01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:01.800 the drop being the nuclear bomb and all that. But but what made that 906 01:08:01.880 --> 01:08:09.039 possible, in part was the massive dehumanization of Japanese people that happened within American 907 01:08:09.079 --> 01:08:14.760 media and Western media and all of that, and I feel like, again 908 01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:20.000 not taking the metaphor too far, but the very intentional humanization of the people 909 01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:26.159 of the Fire Nation and the discussion of you know, you know, we 910 01:08:26.319 --> 01:08:29.039 have to win the war all costs, so we have to do this ultimate 911 01:08:29.079 --> 01:08:31.720 thing of killing OZI. No, I don't want to do that. It's 912 01:08:31.760 --> 01:08:34.039 hard for me in this day and age. Are they not to see that, 913 01:08:34.079 --> 01:08:36.239 you know a little like I don't think that was intended as a like 914 01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:42.000 nuclear bomb discussion, but it's part of a similar conversation of how much we 915 01:08:42.079 --> 01:08:45.560 dehumanize people in war and how much that allows us to feel like we can 916 01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:49.319 go to any extent in order to win the war. Yeah, and not 917 01:08:49.399 --> 01:08:57.000 just the humanization of the Fire Nation, mostly children, but showing the propaganda 918 01:08:57.159 --> 01:09:02.319 of how they are dehumanizing the Earth Kingdom, right, yeah, or infantilizing 919 01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:06.520 like. One of the reasons that I, for me personally, I draw 920 01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:12.920 the parallel to Imperial Japan is that one of the characters, either like Susan 921 01:09:13.239 --> 01:09:15.760 or Azalon, like one of the fire Lords, when they're talking about the 922 01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:21.399 war specifically uses the word prosperity, like we have to bring our prosperity to 923 01:09:21.479 --> 01:09:30.039 the other nations, and that is the greater Asian co prosperity. Prosperity is 924 01:09:30.079 --> 01:09:35.880 a translation that's words specifically of how Japan viewed what they were doing in Asia. 925 01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:40.359 So like when they use that word prosperity, that was like a big 926 01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:44.439 like light bulb for me, Like, ah, here we go. Yeah, 927 01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:47.439 that makes sense. We're out of the time limit, and I have 928 01:09:47.479 --> 01:09:50.479 some bonus content that'll do with one of you at least to stick around if 929 01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:53.119 you but if you both have to go, that's mine. If one of 930 01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:56.159 you have to go, it's mine. But let me just say any last 931 01:09:56.159 --> 01:09:59.119 thoughts you want to say, Paul, let me start with you both and 932 01:09:59.119 --> 01:10:00.439 a last thoughts, and also any plugs you want to give for the media 933 01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:04.399 you're creating. Yeah, I'll have some media coming soon. You can follow 934 01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:10.359 me zen Madman on Twitter or whatever if you want. I'll have zenmadman dot 935 01:10:10.359 --> 01:10:14.479 com up again. At some point, we didn't talk that much about opera, 936 01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:19.600 but that's fine. Character can talk about Apa more later. De Bradley 937 01:10:19.720 --> 01:10:28.840 Baker, the voice of Clon, is also the voice of Opa and Momo, 938 01:10:29.239 --> 01:10:35.039 getting in the habit of talking to himself all the time. But yeah, 939 01:10:35.159 --> 01:10:38.319 no, I don't have that much more to say, just like, 940 01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:41.760 I love the show. It's one of my three favorite series of all time, 941 01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:45.920 and yeah, or I don't know, it doesn't matter how many, 942 01:10:46.039 --> 01:10:48.640 but like, it's one of my favorite series of all time. It has 943 01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:53.960 many of my favorite characters of all time. If you haven't watched it, 944 01:10:54.479 --> 01:10:59.000 just go watch it. I don't know, although I'm like, I'm actually 945 01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:02.319 getting my mom to watch the new series without having watched the animated because I 946 01:11:02.359 --> 01:11:08.079 kind of want to be able to see how someone reacts to that without the 947 01:11:08.199 --> 01:11:12.319 previous thing. I want to try and take the new series on as its 948 01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:15.520 own, as its own thing. It doesn't have to live up to the 949 01:11:15.560 --> 01:11:17.960 original. It doesn't have to be the original. I hope it has many 950 01:11:17.960 --> 01:11:23.439 of the things I loved about the original. But the original survived one bad 951 01:11:23.479 --> 01:11:27.159 live action version. It can survive another. If this one doesn't work out, 952 01:11:27.159 --> 01:11:30.960 well, hopefully it doesn't have to. Hopefully this is great. And 953 01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:34.560 I will say that when I watched the Cowboy Bebop live action, I enjoyed 954 01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:39.720 it a lot, and then I went back and watched the animated series, 955 01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:43.159 and I was like, Oh, if I had just watched this and then 956 01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:46.039 watched the adaptation. I might not have liked the adaptation as much because I 957 01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:50.279 really saw what the people who are complaining about it didn't like, Like there's 958 01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:55.399 certain characters that are like, oh, that character does not feel right. 959 01:11:55.880 --> 01:11:59.720 But the live action version was good, but it was like I took it 960 01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:01.439 as separate thing and enjoyed it, and then I went and was like, 961 01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:04.560 oh, the original series was brilliant too, but it was just it was 962 01:12:04.600 --> 01:12:08.640 different, you know. So I hope people can kind of just take it 963 01:12:09.079 --> 01:12:13.640 as it is. It's what it is. Hopefully it's good and the original 964 01:12:13.720 --> 01:12:15.800 is great, so you know, at least we have Paris. I don't 965 01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:28.479 know, well, my ranking of this show is that, like a week 966 01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:31.760 ago, after we agreed that we were going to do this episode, my 967 01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:36.720 wife Sarah just put on the first episode and then we didn't stop watching for 968 01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:41.760 like a week and a half. We binged it like several episodes every night 969 01:12:42.279 --> 01:12:45.000 and that like that. It's just that good where you start and you can't 970 01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:50.199 stop. And I think that we said earlier or like last episode, it's 971 01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:55.159 only three seasons. Yeah, they just they do such a good job of 972 01:12:55.199 --> 01:12:59.199 telling the story. They wanted to tell and then saying we're done, We're 973 01:12:59.199 --> 01:13:01.800 good, and that that's really one of the things I love about it. 974 01:13:03.199 --> 01:13:09.079 My partner and I spent a lot of last year door dashing far more than 975 01:13:09.079 --> 01:13:11.560 we meant to. We've had a lot of New Year's resolutions about we're going 976 01:13:11.600 --> 01:13:14.640 to cook far more, and we are for the most part, but in 977 01:13:14.680 --> 01:13:17.640 a similar vein there were two different evenings where we were like, so I 978 01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:21.039 can get up and we pause the show for thirty minutes while I cook dinner, 979 01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:26.000 or I can door dash and we keep watching. And Mary immediately was 980 01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:30.560 like, keep watching. Yeah, I'm excited. I'll actually say. Paulsenually 981 01:13:30.680 --> 01:13:35.199 pointed out that we hadn't talked about APPA. I'm really nervous about APPA live 982 01:13:35.239 --> 01:13:40.560 action, like it's gonna be all cgied, and so he is a fundamental 983 01:13:40.640 --> 01:13:45.239 character, and I think he was barely in the first adaptation, in part 984 01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:47.560 probably because even twenty years ago, live action APPA would have been a disaster. 985 01:13:48.079 --> 01:13:51.640 Yeah quarantine, I think. But yeah, so we'll see. So 986 01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:55.199 we'll see well and stick around. We are going to have coverage of it 987 01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:58.079 right here on this podcast, and please stick around. So thank you all 988 01:13:58.119 --> 01:14:00.279 so much. For listening. We'd love to hear thoughts from you. Keep 989 01:14:00.319 --> 01:14:02.960 watching these episodes. Our coverage of the live action is gonna be right here 990 01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:05.680 on the same podcast. Please subscribe, like, and subscribe, follow, 991 01:14:05.920 --> 01:14:09.880 do all the good things. Become a member for only five dollars a month, 992 01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:12.479 less than a coffee from the place that are hoping you're making good ethical 993 01:14:12.560 --> 01:14:15.520 choices, but where you're getting your coffee from, as with all the decisions, 994 01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:17.239 but you know, do what you do. But for five dollars a 995 01:14:17.239 --> 01:14:21.279 month fifty five dollars a year, you can get member episodes. We're doing 996 01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:26.560 full member episodes now, we're doing member content at the end of every episode, 997 01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:30.720 and of course you can add free episodes, and you can support us, 998 01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:32.119 which is great. All for five dollars a month or fifty five dollars 999 01:14:32.119 --> 01:14:35.039 a year, Please think about becoming a member. Please share this. Please 1000 01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:39.359 talk to your friends about it. If they're also interested in Avatar, get 1001 01:14:39.359 --> 01:14:42.640 them signed up, and most importantly write in all the ways to contact us 1002 01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:45.359 or right there on the show notes. I think it's the ethical Panda at 1003 01:14:45.399 --> 01:14:48.640 gmail dot com is the easiest, but also anything whether you want us to 1004 01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:53.520 read your comment on air or just have us first to think about. Please 1005 01:14:53.600 --> 01:14:55.800 do let us know what you think. Let us know as the Avatar Show 1006 01:14:55.800 --> 01:14:59.039 comes out. I'm having myself, Ricky Paul, thank you all so much 1007 01:14:59.079 --> 01:15:03.960 for listening. We have spoken. Haartman, Hotman. That's rough, buddy. 1008 01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:11.319 There we go, There we go. What are here,